October 29, 2025 • 27 mins
In this episode of the Mountain West Firearms Podcast, host Robert Wareham breaks down one of the most common misunderstandings about firearms ownership — the belief that guns are “registered” to individuals. He explains why North Carolina has no gun registry and how federal law prohibits a national database of gun owners.
Robert walks listeners through how the Form 4473 background check actually works, why private sales carry risks, and what counts as a federal firearms disability. He also clarifies the process for out-of-state purchases, the importance of accurate identification, and how residency laws apply to part-time North Carolina residents.
Listeners will gain a clear understanding of the NICS background check system, what happens during a delay or denial, and why a concealed carry permit can simplify the process. Throughout, Robert shares real examples from his store experience to help demystify the process and promote responsible, informed firearm ownership.
Key Topics Covered:
- The myth of firearm registration in North Carolina
- How Form 4473 and NICS background checks actually work
- Selling firearms privately and avoiding legal pitfalls
- Understanding disqualifying offenses and “federal disabilities”
- Dual residency and ID requirements for firearm purchases
- What to do if your background check is delayed or denied
Closing Message:
Buying a firearm doesn’t have to be confusing. With the right knowledge and preparation, it can be a smooth, responsible process.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Introduction (00:02):
You're tuned in to the Mountain West Firearms
Podcast, where honest talk andexpert insight meet the world of
shooting, training, andresponsible firearm ownership.
Let's dive in.
Robert Wareham (00:14):
Hi, everyone.
Robert Wareham again fromMountain West Firearms with
another podcast dealing withyour right to carry and your
Second Amendment rights andshooting sports in general.
You know, when I sit in thestore and new customers come in,
I have uh learned very quicklythat there's a lot of
misunderstandings about howfirearms law works in North
(00:35):
Carolina and in the UnitedStates in general.
One of the most common myths isthat a gun is registered to
somebody.
You know, I had someone come inthe other day and say, well, uh
my wife wants a gun, but shewants it registered in her name.
And I'm always quick to pointout to people that in North
Carolina, there is no such thingas a gun registry.
(00:59):
And in the United States, it isactually against the law for
the federal government tomaintain a database of firearms
owners.
So where did this concept of uhfirearms registration come
from?
Well, there are places in theUnited States, uh certain uh
generally liberal states orliberal cities where they have
(01:21):
passed laws that require peopleto have permits and to register
their firearms.
The most obvious one that comesto mind is New York City.
Now, it's been at the epicenterof some of the firearms law
litigation uh that's going onand continues to be because of
Bruin versus New York uh Rifleand Pistol Association that the
(01:43):
Supreme Court uh made a decisionon several years ago.
But there are places wherelocal governments and state
governments have put into placeuh firearms registration
schemes, but those do not existunder state law in North
Carolina.
So what is going on then?
Because most people do knowthat when they come in to
(02:05):
purchase a firearm, whether it'sa pistol or a longarm, uh, that
there is a background checkdone and that you're asked to
fill out certain information,and that information is is
placed on a form uh in ourstore.
We use a computer to do it, uh,but you can also do it on a
paper form, and it's called aForm 4473 that deals with a
(02:28):
transfer of a firearm from alicensed federal firearms
licensee to a private person.
And that can be the sale of anew gun, it can be the sale of a
used gun.
And another m sort ofmisunderstanding out there is if
you as a private party want tosell a gun to another private
party, you can do so without abackground check.
(02:51):
But you're taking the risk thatthat party you're selling your
firearm to does not have afederal disability to owning a
firearm.
What do I mean by federaldisability?
Well, you know, there's avariety of things, but to
overgeneralize it, let's justsay a conviction of a felony or
(03:12):
a conviction of a misdemeanorpunishable by over one year.
Now, a lot of people over theyears, I've had them say, well,
uh I got convicted of amisdemeanor several years ago,
but I don't think that shouldkeep me from uh uh possessing a
firearm because I didn't go tojail at all.
Well, it isn't whether or notyou were sentenced to jail even
(03:35):
for 30 days.
What matters is was thatmisdemeanor punishable by over a
year in jail?
And if in fact it was, even ifyou just got probation, that can
be uh a bar to you purchasing afirearm.
Another bar to you purchasing afirearm that uh is less
(03:57):
commonly known, but it is alifetime bar.
And that is if you have aconviction on your record of any
kind of uh domestic violence uhsort of offense.
And under federal law, um whatconstitutes an act of domestic
violence may actually be alittle broader than under some
(04:18):
uh state law.
It could be uh a conviction forhaving some sort of domestic
violence incident involving justa roommate.
So you have to be carefulthere.
But um when you're doing makinga private transfer yourself,
you know, unless you know thisperson very well and can be
absolutely certain that theydon't have a federal firearms
(04:39):
disability, the safest way foryou to transfer a firearm is for
you to take it in to an FFL, alicensed, federal firearms
licensee, and let them handlethat private party transfer.
Now, the other thing thathappens when people come in is
they say, okay, now do I have towait any kind of period of time
(05:01):
to purchase a handgun?
And there was a time when youhad to actually have a permit to
purchase a firearm in NorthCarolina, and you had to go down
to the sheriff's office, andyou had to have basically a
quick background check done.
That law was repealed before weeven opened up Mountain West
Firearms.
That was repealed a couple ofyears ago and no longer exists.
(05:23):
Now it is possible for anylaw-abiding citizen to walk in
to a federal licensee and buyany kind of firearm, and
assuming that they have a cleanrecord that can be verified
through a national backgroundcheck, uh they can leave the
same time with their firearm.
So what is involved there?
(05:44):
So you come in, you're looking,let's let's deal with pistols,
first of all.
And uh another misunderstandingfrom time to time, pistols can
only be purchased right now byindividuals 21 years of age or
older, because under both stateand federal law, um a person
between the age of 18 and 21 umis considered a minor for the
(06:07):
purchase of uh purpose ofpurchasing firearms, and so
they're not permitted topurchase them.
Now I will tell you that thereare some districts, um uh
federal court districts, thathave viewed this differently,
and in light of the holding ofuh Bruin v.
New York um pistol, uh rifleand pistol, uh, they've come
(06:29):
back and said, you know, no, uhif you carry that to its
extreme, there is no agelimitation on firearms purposes.
So whether we're gonna see thatuh that uh limitation uh on age
21 uh uh stand up toconstitutional scrutiny going
forward, I think is a a veryvalid question.
(06:50):
But for now, if you want topurchase a pistol, you can come
in.
Uh you need to be 21 years ofage.
You need to be a resident ofthe state of North Carolina.
A licensed uh FFL cannot sell apistol or a handgun to anyone
(07:10):
who is not a resident of NorthCarolina.
Now, you say, well, but youknow, what if people come here
on vacation and they they'vebeen looking for, you know, a
cult Python stainless andthey've they can't find them
because they're kind of in shortsupply, and you've got one
there in the case.
Can't they buy it?
Yes, there's a way they can buyit.
Um, it's a little cumbersomeand uh involves some expense.
(07:35):
But what's involved then is wehave to contact an FFL that is
in that person's home state andmake arrangements to transfer
that firearm to that FFL in thehome state, and then the
customer, when they return home,they go to that FFL.
That FFL does the NationalInstaCheck, uh, background
(07:58):
check, and can then transfer thefirearm to them.
Most uh uh FFLs charge a feefor uh handling a private
transfer like that.
Mount West Firearms handlesthem and is an accommodation to
our customers.
We charge a $65 fee, butincluded in that $65 fee is a
$25 gift certificate that can beused in the store to buy
(08:20):
holsters, uh, ammunition,whatever.
So uh really in the net uheffect it it turns out to be
$40.
So this person has come in,they've decided they want to buy
a firearm, they've told us I'ma North Carolina resident.
The next thing they do is weask them for their
government-issued photo ID.
And here, frankly, is where werun into problems more
(08:43):
frequently than we would liketo.
We've got someone who comes inand they've told us, oh yeah, I,
you know, I I just bought aplace up the road here.
I live two miles away.
Uh I want to buy this uh newfirearm, and here is my ID.
And lo and behold, we look atthe ID, and what does it have?
It has their address inWaynesville or Weaverville or
(09:06):
Swannanoa, and it does not matchwhat they have just told us is
their address.
They have told us, oh, I justbought property and I just moved
in up the street.
And so now we've got a problem.
Because under federal law, yourphoto, government-issued photo
ID must have the address of yourresidence on it.
(09:29):
Now, there are some ways ofgetting around this.
For example, if you get on ifif you've moved and you've got a
North Carolina ID, um, but itjust doesn't say your new
residence on it, but you've goneonline to North Carolina
Department of Transportation andyou've done your address
(09:50):
change, and it has sent you aconfirming email or given you a
receipt that you've done an aduh address change.
The good thing is we can usethat document to confirm the new
address together with the photoID, and then we're in good
shape.
Another problem that comes upvery commonly here in Western
North Carolina is we've got alot of folks that basically are
(10:13):
uh, yeah, I guess you could callthem snowbirds or or uh maybe
they're escapees from the summerheat in Florida, but they own
homes in both Florida and theyown homes in Western North
Carolina.
So while they consider Floridato be their primary residence,
they also consider themselves tohave a residence here in North
(10:34):
Carolina.
Now, many people don't realizethat you can be a resident of
more than one state.
You basically, under the law,have one domicile, and that's
the place you intend to makeyour permanent home and where
you return to, but you can sayI'm a resident of North Carolina
and a resident of Florida atthe same time.
Now, under most interstatecompacts for driver's licenses,
(10:59):
uh, we don't allow you to havedriver's licenses in two states
because that becomesproblematic.
Let's say your license getsrevoked for having a driving
while intoxicated.
Um, you know, they revoke yourNorth Carolina driver's license,
and now you've still got aFlorida license.
So under the InterstateCompact, you can't have two
different driver's licenses.
So how do you get two differentgovernment IDs then?
(11:22):
Well, what I suggest to peoplewhen they come up here is let's
say they got a Florida driver'slicense and they want to keep
their Florida driver's licensebecause they consider that their
primary residence, great.
Just go in to the Department ofTransportation and apply for a
North Carolina identificationcard.
They're going to put youthrough the same kind of thing.
(11:42):
They're going to want to see abirth certificate or something
else like that, and some proofthat you in fact have
established residency in in uhNorth Carolina.
And I think various ways ofdoing that are leases, title
documents, utility bills, andthe like.
And so that's what I encouragepeople to do is if you want to
maintain residences in bothstates, pick which state you
(12:04):
want to have a driver's licensein, and in the other state, get
yourself an identification card.
You can also use a passport asuh a means of photo
identification, but then you seethe passport really doesn't
have an address inside of it.
I mean, yes, on the inside ofthe page it's got a place where
(12:24):
you can write your address, butwhether or not that is
sufficient because it's notreally issued by a government
agency with that address on it.
So we can use the photo toprove it and then use other
documents in an ancillary sortof way to prove your address.
So now we've gotten past thathurdle.
We have determined, okay,you've got a North Carolina
(12:48):
driver's license.
Your North Carolina driver'slicense has your proper address
on it, and it is valid.
It is not expired.
So we're ready to proceed.
At that point, we start in withthe National Insta-Check System
background check.
And again, we handle this witha computer.
(13:09):
So uh at our store, you we geton and we fill in your basic
information, and then we takeyou over to computer and have
you sit down and you fill outthe form there.
And you have to answertruthfully all of the questions
on that form, uh, and that dealswith whether you have any of
these conditions that would be adisability to you owning a
(13:30):
firearm.
And you need to answer thosequestions truthfully.
Uh you may remember that HunterBiden, uh, despite all of the
accusations made in other areasregarding the laptop and
everything, one of theconvictions he actually got was
for providing false informationon a 4473 form.
(13:50):
And that is where herepresented at a time when he
later admitted that he wasaddicted to cocaine and other
illegal substances, that he uhwas not, in fact, and so he
checked that he was not.
Well, if he had checked, yes,that he was, he knows he would
not have been sold that firearmthat eventually ended up in a
(14:13):
trash can at a restaurant.
So you need to read all thosequestions carefully, you need to
answer them truthfully, andthen when that is done, we go
back to our computer and we logon to the FBI's National Insta
check system.
And with the NationalInstaCheck system, we take the
information that you provided onthe 4473 form, we upload it to
(14:36):
the federal government, and theFBI then does an instant check.
And when they say instant, Iyou know, I've seen them come
back in a matter of two, three,four, five minutes, but I've
also seen them take a lotlonger.
And in fact, there are timeswhen it will come back and it
will say delayed.
(14:56):
So what happens at first, itsays processing.
All right, and then it mightcome back delayed, or it might
come back and say new, or itmight come back, and in those
circumstances, uh it may be thatthere will have to be a waiting
period.
When does that kind of thingoccur?
Well, we had a uh young ladycome into our um store a couple
(15:22):
of months ago, and she wouldhave what I would call a very
common American name.
You know, there are people withthe last name of Smith or Jones
or Miller, and when you have acommon first name and a common
last name and maybe no middlename, and you don't elect to put
your Social Security number onthe 4473 because you're not
(15:43):
required to.
You may, but you're notrequired to.
Now it becomes a matter of asI'm searching across the
country, is there someone withthe same name as me or you uh
that maybe has these federalfirearms disabilities?
I got a real surprise the otherday.
I was searching the uh amateurradio call sign database in
(16:05):
Colorado to try and look upsomeone else's address, and I
was stunned to see that there'sanother Robert Wareham,
W-A-R-E-H-A-M, in NorthCarolina.
We have different middle names,but this is another Robert
Wareham, and he is over uhtowards the coast outside of
Charlotte.
And I was amazed.
(16:25):
I don't I I think, you know, uhI remember years ago that uh I
I discovered there was someonewith my same name somewhere
else.
But just imagine if thatperson, say, had a felony
record.
Well, that could be a problemfor me, and it might result in
to a delay.
And what happens when thattakes place is that does trigger
(16:47):
a three-day waiting period.
And during that three-daywaiting period, the FFL is not
able to transfer the firearm tothe purchaser.
Uh they just basically have toput it uh uh set it aside, the
transaction is suspended.
Now, what happens if the FBIcan't clear that delayed status
(17:09):
within that three D three days?
Well, then it is within thediscretion of the FFL to go
ahead and deliver the firearm ornot.
So and that is three businessdays, and the day of the
attempted transaction would notbe included.
And so what happens is when wedo this, um our computer comes
(17:34):
up and says, your Brady transferdate is the following, and that
would be after three fullbusiness days from the date of
the original transaction.
And we have actually, since weopened in June, we've probably
had two or three of those wherethey never were cleared.
They always just say delayed.
(17:55):
Uh, and in fact, the first onewe did eventually came back and
said expired, um, meaning theyjust sort of given up on the
thing.
And so you might ask yourself,well, what happens if the person
ends up then uh being deniedand not being cleared to have
the firearm?
Well, if we've gone ahead andelected to deliver it, uh we've
(18:16):
complied with the law.
Uh we can kind of wash ourhands of the situation.
The ATF would contact us andsay, Did you deliver the
firearm?
And we would say, Yeah, we wentahead and gave it to them.
We didn't see any problem withit.
And at that point, it's up tothe ATF to contact the purchaser
and go out and makearrangements to retrieve the
firearm.
(18:36):
So, you know, that's somethingthat a purchaser might want to
keep in mind, because if you goahead and accept delivery, uh
now you've got a used firearmand you can't just return it to
the store, particularly if it'sbeen fired.
Um, and so you're taking alittle bit of risk in taking uh
the delivery as well.
So then what happens in mostcases?
(18:58):
In most cases, within a matterof five to ten minutes up on the
computer, it says proceed.
And proceed uh is the magicword that means we can go ahead
and transfer to that customerthe new firearm that they're
purchasing.
And so what we do to actuallycomplete that background check
process is we print out now aphysical copy of the 4473 form.
(19:22):
It contains all the informationthat the purchaser filled out
online, and it contains theidentification number that we
got from the national instacheck system.
When it says proceed, it's gota number on there, a serial
number that we can go to andsay, okay, this is the serial
number we got that said it wasokay to go ahead and transfer
this firearm to this customer.
(19:44):
We put all that informationonto the 4473 form, and then we
take and we pull out our littleaccordion file that we keep in
our cabinet right next to thecash register, and it's divided
up by months, and we just slidethat information in there.
And what happens overnight,because it's against federal
law, for the federal governmentto maintain a database of
(20:08):
firearms owners, overnight thatnational insta check inquiry is
purged from the system.
So most people think because weran the background check, the
firearm is registered to them.
No, it's not.
All that we're doing is we'reasking at a moment in time, hey
(20:30):
feds, do you see any reason whywe shouldn't transfer a firearm
to this person?
And in a matter of about tenmonths, uh ten minutes rather,
the federal database comes backusually and says, Nope, there's
no reason you can't transferthat person.
And at that point, the federalgovernment purges that
information from a system.
So if the same customer comesback in a week or two weeks and
(20:56):
purchase another firearm,that'll be a whole new Nix
inquiry.
There's no history there,there's no record to show, oh
no, this person's alreadycleared.
Um and and they're goingthrough that.
Now, let me tell you the coupleof exceptions here that you
might need to be aware of.
Number one exception is ifyou've got a concealed carry
(21:18):
handgun permit issued by thestate of North Carolina, you
don't even have to go throughthe NICS process because you've
already been background checked.
You've been fully checked, andunder North Carolina law, which
federal law has a provision thatsays if the person has a
concealed carry permit issued bytheir state of residence, and
(21:41):
that state provides that it canbe used as identification, then
no Nix background check isrequired.
So if you anticipate thatyou're going to be a frequent
handgun purchaser, you know, mma couple times a year
potentially, it's worth gettinga concealed handgun permit just
(22:02):
for that reason alone, becauseit takes the purchase of a
handgun or firearm uh from a30-minute process to a 10-minute
process because you still fillout the 4473 form, but you're
not required to undergo the NICScheck.
We just do the 4473, it's alldone, we stick it in the
(22:25):
pendiflex file, and you're done.
What about if you get deniedand you know it's not right?
Well, you can file an appealwith the FBI to say, hey, what's
going on here?
And let's assume for a minutethat the FBI comes back after
doing all this research and theysay, you know, you're right,
this isn't you, it's somebodyelse.
(22:46):
Um then they can correct it andthey can say you can go ahead
and purchase.
If that happens too often, theFBI can actually issue a unique
identifier code to you, and youcan use that in the future then
when purchasing firearms toprove what your identity is that
in fact you are qualified tomake a firearms purchase.
(23:11):
And um uh that makes the theprocess go a lot easier.
But there are uh there therehave been times.
I I know I was formerly anattorney in um Colorado, and
when I was practicing there, Iused to assist people who got
denials on firearms purchasesand denials of concealed handgun
(23:31):
permits and the like.
And, you know, there was a timewhen the initial response uh
from a background check inColorado, one-third of them, had
an error in them that resultedin a denial of the person's uh
request to purchase.
And then when the person filedan appeal within Colorado, they
(23:51):
file it with the uh State Bureauof Investigation, and they do
further investigating and go,oops, oh yeah, that wasn't you.
That was an incorrect record,and so we'll move on and we uh
we'll go ahead and correct that.
Um sometimes we actually had tofile court cases to go in and
prove.
There there can be situationsthat happen, um, and frequently
(24:14):
it uh it seems to happen whensomebody has a really old
charge.
Let's say you know thepurchaser got involved in a a
bar fight or something when theywere in college, and uh uh
being a former law enforcementofficer, uh, you know, I can I
can attest to the fact that, youknow, we just sort of charge
them with everything and thenlet the DA sort it out on
(24:37):
Monday.
And so what happens isfrequently in a situation like
that, someone might get chargedwith a disqualifying offense,
either a felony or uh amisdemeanor charge punishable by
more than a year in jail.
And uh that'll show up on thearrest record, which the FBI
InstaCheck goes and looks at andgoes, Oh, that's what's uh the
(25:00):
they've got an arrest here.
Well, what happens then isafter the arrest, the DA goes in
and looks at it and says, Oh,come on, this is overcharged.
Or maybe as part of a pleabargain, the DA agrees to reduce
it to a petty, disorderlyconduct, and you plead guilty to
that, and nothing ever happens.
(25:20):
You pay a little fine and thenyou're all done, right?
The problem is that arrestrecord is still in there.
And frequently there's nothingto show that that arrest record
actually got dismissed, or thatarresting charge got dismissed,
and ended up in a pettydisorderly conduct charge.
(25:42):
And so now the person has thisin there, it's popping up, the
FBI is looking at it and saying,well, it says he got arrested
for a felony, and we can't tellany differently.
So we're just gonna do adenial.
So those are the kinds ofthings where you might have to
get an attorney involved to tryand clean up the record there.
Um just as a disclaimer, uhwhile I remain licensed in
(26:04):
Colorado and I'm admitted beforethe United States Supreme
Court, I am not admitted topractice law in the state of
North Carolina.
So anything you hear in thesepodcasts is just sort of
anecdotal information based uponmy experience.
But if you uh needrepresentation to solve a
problem like this, uh you doneed to find a North Carolina
(26:25):
licensed attorney.
Well, hopefully that dispelssome of the myths and
misunderstandings about theprocess of buying a firearm.
It doesn't have to bedifficult, it doesn't have to be
as bad as buying a car, uh,particularly if you know what
the requirements are and youcome in prepared with your photo
ID and you're ready to go.
So we look forward to seeingyou in the store.
(26:47):
But for now, I'm Robert Warehamfrom Mountain West Firearms.
Have a great day, and we'll seeyou next time.
Introduction (26:54):
Thanks for listening to the Mountain West
Firearms Podcast, where skillmeets responsibility.
Subscribe for straight talk andexpert insight, and we'll see
you on the next one.
You're tuned in to the Mountain West Firearms
Podcast, where honest talk andexpert insight meet the world of
shooting, training, andresponsible firearm ownership.
Let's dive in.
Robert Wareham (00:14):
Hi, everyone.
Robert Wareham again fromMountain West Firearms with
another podcast dealing withyour right to carry and your
Second Amendment rights andshooting sports in general.
You know, when I sit in thestore and new customers come in,
I have uh learned very quicklythat there's a lot of
misunderstandings about howfirearms law works in North
(00:35):
Carolina and in the UnitedStates in general.
One of the most common myths isthat a gun is registered to
somebody.
You know, I had someone come inthe other day and say, well, uh
my wife wants a gun, but shewants it registered in her name.
And I'm always quick to pointout to people that in North
Carolina, there is no such thingas a gun registry.
(00:59):
And in the United States, it isactually against the law for
the federal government tomaintain a database of firearms
owners.
So where did this concept of uhfirearms registration come
from?
Well, there are places in theUnited States, uh certain uh
generally liberal states orliberal cities where they have
(01:21):
passed laws that require peopleto have permits and to register
their firearms.
The most obvious one that comesto mind is New York City.
Now, it's been at the epicenterof some of the firearms law
litigation uh that's going onand continues to be because of
Bruin versus New York uh Rifleand Pistol Association that the
(01:43):
Supreme Court uh made a decisionon several years ago.
But there are places wherelocal governments and state
governments have put into placeuh firearms registration
schemes, but those do not existunder state law in North
Carolina.
So what is going on then?
Because most people do knowthat when they come in to
(02:05):
purchase a firearm, whether it'sa pistol or a longarm, uh, that
there is a background checkdone and that you're asked to
fill out certain information,and that information is is
placed on a form uh in ourstore.
We use a computer to do it, uh,but you can also do it on a
paper form, and it's called aForm 4473 that deals with a
(02:28):
transfer of a firearm from alicensed federal firearms
licensee to a private person.
And that can be the sale of anew gun, it can be the sale of a
used gun.
And another m sort ofmisunderstanding out there is if
you as a private party want tosell a gun to another private
party, you can do so without abackground check.
(02:51):
But you're taking the risk thatthat party you're selling your
firearm to does not have afederal disability to owning a
firearm.
What do I mean by federaldisability?
Well, you know, there's avariety of things, but to
overgeneralize it, let's justsay a conviction of a felony or
(03:12):
a conviction of a misdemeanorpunishable by over one year.
Now, a lot of people over theyears, I've had them say, well,
uh I got convicted of amisdemeanor several years ago,
but I don't think that shouldkeep me from uh uh possessing a
firearm because I didn't go tojail at all.
Well, it isn't whether or notyou were sentenced to jail even
(03:35):
for 30 days.
What matters is was thatmisdemeanor punishable by over a
year in jail?
And if in fact it was, even ifyou just got probation, that can
be uh a bar to you purchasing afirearm.
Another bar to you purchasing afirearm that uh is less
(03:57):
commonly known, but it is alifetime bar.
And that is if you have aconviction on your record of any
kind of uh domestic violence uhsort of offense.
And under federal law, um whatconstitutes an act of domestic
violence may actually be alittle broader than under some
(04:18):
uh state law.
It could be uh a conviction forhaving some sort of domestic
violence incident involving justa roommate.
So you have to be carefulthere.
But um when you're doing makinga private transfer yourself,
you know, unless you know thisperson very well and can be
absolutely certain that theydon't have a federal firearms
(04:39):
disability, the safest way foryou to transfer a firearm is for
you to take it in to an FFL, alicensed, federal firearms
licensee, and let them handlethat private party transfer.
Now, the other thing thathappens when people come in is
they say, okay, now do I have towait any kind of period of time
(05:01):
to purchase a handgun?
And there was a time when youhad to actually have a permit to
purchase a firearm in NorthCarolina, and you had to go down
to the sheriff's office, andyou had to have basically a
quick background check done.
That law was repealed before weeven opened up Mountain West
Firearms.
That was repealed a couple ofyears ago and no longer exists.
(05:23):
Now it is possible for anylaw-abiding citizen to walk in
to a federal licensee and buyany kind of firearm, and
assuming that they have a cleanrecord that can be verified
through a national backgroundcheck, uh they can leave the
same time with their firearm.
So what is involved there?
(05:44):
So you come in, you're looking,let's let's deal with pistols,
first of all.
And uh another misunderstandingfrom time to time, pistols can
only be purchased right now byindividuals 21 years of age or
older, because under both stateand federal law, um a person
between the age of 18 and 21 umis considered a minor for the
(06:07):
purchase of uh purpose ofpurchasing firearms, and so
they're not permitted topurchase them.
Now I will tell you that thereare some districts, um uh
federal court districts, thathave viewed this differently,
and in light of the holding ofuh Bruin v.
New York um pistol, uh rifleand pistol, uh, they've come
(06:29):
back and said, you know, no, uhif you carry that to its
extreme, there is no agelimitation on firearms purposes.
So whether we're gonna see thatuh that uh limitation uh on age
21 uh uh stand up toconstitutional scrutiny going
forward, I think is a a veryvalid question.
(06:50):
But for now, if you want topurchase a pistol, you can come
in.
Uh you need to be 21 years ofage.
You need to be a resident ofthe state of North Carolina.
A licensed uh FFL cannot sell apistol or a handgun to anyone
(07:10):
who is not a resident of NorthCarolina.
Now, you say, well, but youknow, what if people come here
on vacation and they they'vebeen looking for, you know, a
cult Python stainless andthey've they can't find them
because they're kind of in shortsupply, and you've got one
there in the case.
Can't they buy it?
Yes, there's a way they can buyit.
Um, it's a little cumbersomeand uh involves some expense.
(07:35):
But what's involved then is wehave to contact an FFL that is
in that person's home state andmake arrangements to transfer
that firearm to that FFL in thehome state, and then the
customer, when they return home,they go to that FFL.
That FFL does the NationalInstaCheck, uh, background
(07:58):
check, and can then transfer thefirearm to them.
Most uh uh FFLs charge a feefor uh handling a private
transfer like that.
Mount West Firearms handlesthem and is an accommodation to
our customers.
We charge a $65 fee, butincluded in that $65 fee is a
$25 gift certificate that can beused in the store to buy
(08:20):
holsters, uh, ammunition,whatever.
So uh really in the net uheffect it it turns out to be
$40.
So this person has come in,they've decided they want to buy
a firearm, they've told us I'ma North Carolina resident.
The next thing they do is weask them for their
government-issued photo ID.
And here, frankly, is where werun into problems more
(08:43):
frequently than we would liketo.
We've got someone who comes inand they've told us, oh yeah, I,
you know, I I just bought aplace up the road here.
I live two miles away.
Uh I want to buy this uh newfirearm, and here is my ID.
And lo and behold, we look atthe ID, and what does it have?
It has their address inWaynesville or Weaverville or
(09:06):
Swannanoa, and it does not matchwhat they have just told us is
their address.
They have told us, oh, I justbought property and I just moved
in up the street.
And so now we've got a problem.
Because under federal law, yourphoto, government-issued photo
ID must have the address of yourresidence on it.
(09:29):
Now, there are some ways ofgetting around this.
For example, if you get on ifif you've moved and you've got a
North Carolina ID, um, but itjust doesn't say your new
residence on it, but you've goneonline to North Carolina
Department of Transportation andyou've done your address
(09:50):
change, and it has sent you aconfirming email or given you a
receipt that you've done an aduh address change.
The good thing is we can usethat document to confirm the new
address together with the photoID, and then we're in good
shape.
Another problem that comes upvery commonly here in Western
North Carolina is we've got alot of folks that basically are
(10:13):
uh, yeah, I guess you could callthem snowbirds or or uh maybe
they're escapees from the summerheat in Florida, but they own
homes in both Florida and theyown homes in Western North
Carolina.
So while they consider Floridato be their primary residence,
they also consider themselves tohave a residence here in North
(10:34):
Carolina.
Now, many people don't realizethat you can be a resident of
more than one state.
You basically, under the law,have one domicile, and that's
the place you intend to makeyour permanent home and where
you return to, but you can sayI'm a resident of North Carolina
and a resident of Florida atthe same time.
Now, under most interstatecompacts for driver's licenses,
(10:59):
uh, we don't allow you to havedriver's licenses in two states
because that becomesproblematic.
Let's say your license getsrevoked for having a driving
while intoxicated.
Um, you know, they revoke yourNorth Carolina driver's license,
and now you've still got aFlorida license.
So under the InterstateCompact, you can't have two
different driver's licenses.
So how do you get two differentgovernment IDs then?
(11:22):
Well, what I suggest to peoplewhen they come up here is let's
say they got a Florida driver'slicense and they want to keep
their Florida driver's licensebecause they consider that their
primary residence, great.
Just go in to the Department ofTransportation and apply for a
North Carolina identificationcard.
They're going to put youthrough the same kind of thing.
(11:42):
They're going to want to see abirth certificate or something
else like that, and some proofthat you in fact have
established residency in in uhNorth Carolina.
And I think various ways ofdoing that are leases, title
documents, utility bills, andthe like.
And so that's what I encouragepeople to do is if you want to
maintain residences in bothstates, pick which state you
(12:04):
want to have a driver's licensein, and in the other state, get
yourself an identification card.
You can also use a passport asuh a means of photo
identification, but then you seethe passport really doesn't
have an address inside of it.
I mean, yes, on the inside ofthe page it's got a place where
(12:24):
you can write your address, butwhether or not that is
sufficient because it's notreally issued by a government
agency with that address on it.
So we can use the photo toprove it and then use other
documents in an ancillary sortof way to prove your address.
So now we've gotten past thathurdle.
We have determined, okay,you've got a North Carolina
(12:48):
driver's license.
Your North Carolina driver'slicense has your proper address
on it, and it is valid.
It is not expired.
So we're ready to proceed.
At that point, we start in withthe National Insta-Check System
background check.
And again, we handle this witha computer.
(13:09):
So uh at our store, you we geton and we fill in your basic
information, and then we takeyou over to computer and have
you sit down and you fill outthe form there.
And you have to answertruthfully all of the questions
on that form, uh, and that dealswith whether you have any of
these conditions that would be adisability to you owning a
(13:30):
firearm.
And you need to answer thosequestions truthfully.
Uh you may remember that HunterBiden, uh, despite all of the
accusations made in other areasregarding the laptop and
everything, one of theconvictions he actually got was
for providing false informationon a 4473 form.
(13:50):
And that is where herepresented at a time when he
later admitted that he wasaddicted to cocaine and other
illegal substances, that he uhwas not, in fact, and so he
checked that he was not.
Well, if he had checked, yes,that he was, he knows he would
not have been sold that firearmthat eventually ended up in a
(14:13):
trash can at a restaurant.
So you need to read all thosequestions carefully, you need to
answer them truthfully, andthen when that is done, we go
back to our computer and we logon to the FBI's National Insta
check system.
And with the NationalInstaCheck system, we take the
information that you provided onthe 4473 form, we upload it to
(14:36):
the federal government, and theFBI then does an instant check.
And when they say instant, Iyou know, I've seen them come
back in a matter of two, three,four, five minutes, but I've
also seen them take a lotlonger.
And in fact, there are timeswhen it will come back and it
will say delayed.
(14:56):
So what happens at first, itsays processing.
All right, and then it mightcome back delayed, or it might
come back and say new, or itmight come back, and in those
circumstances, uh it may be thatthere will have to be a waiting
period.
When does that kind of thingoccur?
Well, we had a uh young ladycome into our um store a couple
(15:22):
of months ago, and she wouldhave what I would call a very
common American name.
You know, there are people withthe last name of Smith or Jones
or Miller, and when you have acommon first name and a common
last name and maybe no middlename, and you don't elect to put
your Social Security number onthe 4473 because you're not
(15:43):
required to.
You may, but you're notrequired to.
Now it becomes a matter of asI'm searching across the
country, is there someone withthe same name as me or you uh
that maybe has these federalfirearms disabilities?
I got a real surprise the otherday.
I was searching the uh amateurradio call sign database in
(16:05):
Colorado to try and look upsomeone else's address, and I
was stunned to see that there'sanother Robert Wareham,
W-A-R-E-H-A-M, in NorthCarolina.
We have different middle names,but this is another Robert
Wareham, and he is over uhtowards the coast outside of
Charlotte.
And I was amazed.
(16:25):
I don't I I think, you know, uhI remember years ago that uh I
I discovered there was someonewith my same name somewhere
else.
But just imagine if thatperson, say, had a felony
record.
Well, that could be a problemfor me, and it might result in
to a delay.
And what happens when thattakes place is that does trigger
(16:47):
a three-day waiting period.
And during that three-daywaiting period, the FFL is not
able to transfer the firearm tothe purchaser.
Uh they just basically have toput it uh uh set it aside, the
transaction is suspended.
Now, what happens if the FBIcan't clear that delayed status
(17:09):
within that three D three days?
Well, then it is within thediscretion of the FFL to go
ahead and deliver the firearm ornot.
So and that is three businessdays, and the day of the
attempted transaction would notbe included.
And so what happens is when wedo this, um our computer comes
(17:34):
up and says, your Brady transferdate is the following, and that
would be after three fullbusiness days from the date of
the original transaction.
And we have actually, since weopened in June, we've probably
had two or three of those wherethey never were cleared.
They always just say delayed.
(17:55):
Uh, and in fact, the first onewe did eventually came back and
said expired, um, meaning theyjust sort of given up on the
thing.
And so you might ask yourself,well, what happens if the person
ends up then uh being deniedand not being cleared to have
the firearm?
Well, if we've gone ahead andelected to deliver it, uh we've
(18:16):
complied with the law.
Uh we can kind of wash ourhands of the situation.
The ATF would contact us andsay, Did you deliver the
firearm?
And we would say, Yeah, we wentahead and gave it to them.
We didn't see any problem withit.
And at that point, it's up tothe ATF to contact the purchaser
and go out and makearrangements to retrieve the
firearm.
(18:36):
So, you know, that's somethingthat a purchaser might want to
keep in mind, because if you goahead and accept delivery, uh
now you've got a used firearmand you can't just return it to
the store, particularly if it'sbeen fired.
Um, and so you're taking alittle bit of risk in taking uh
the delivery as well.
So then what happens in mostcases?
(18:58):
In most cases, within a matterof five to ten minutes up on the
computer, it says proceed.
And proceed uh is the magicword that means we can go ahead
and transfer to that customerthe new firearm that they're
purchasing.
And so what we do to actuallycomplete that background check
process is we print out now aphysical copy of the 4473 form.
(19:22):
It contains all the informationthat the purchaser filled out
online, and it contains theidentification number that we
got from the national instacheck system.
When it says proceed, it's gota number on there, a serial
number that we can go to andsay, okay, this is the serial
number we got that said it wasokay to go ahead and transfer
this firearm to this customer.
(19:44):
We put all that informationonto the 4473 form, and then we
take and we pull out our littleaccordion file that we keep in
our cabinet right next to thecash register, and it's divided
up by months, and we just slidethat information in there.
And what happens overnight,because it's against federal
law, for the federal governmentto maintain a database of
(20:08):
firearms owners, overnight thatnational insta check inquiry is
purged from the system.
So most people think because weran the background check, the
firearm is registered to them.
No, it's not.
All that we're doing is we'reasking at a moment in time, hey
(20:30):
feds, do you see any reason whywe shouldn't transfer a firearm
to this person?
And in a matter of about tenmonths, uh ten minutes rather,
the federal database comes backusually and says, Nope, there's
no reason you can't transferthat person.
And at that point, the federalgovernment purges that
information from a system.
So if the same customer comesback in a week or two weeks and
(20:56):
purchase another firearm,that'll be a whole new Nix
inquiry.
There's no history there,there's no record to show, oh
no, this person's alreadycleared.
Um and and they're goingthrough that.
Now, let me tell you the coupleof exceptions here that you
might need to be aware of.
Number one exception is ifyou've got a concealed carry
(21:18):
handgun permit issued by thestate of North Carolina, you
don't even have to go throughthe NICS process because you've
already been background checked.
You've been fully checked, andunder North Carolina law, which
federal law has a provision thatsays if the person has a
concealed carry permit issued bytheir state of residence, and
(21:41):
that state provides that it canbe used as identification, then
no Nix background check isrequired.
So if you anticipate thatyou're going to be a frequent
handgun purchaser, you know, mma couple times a year
potentially, it's worth gettinga concealed handgun permit just
(22:02):
for that reason alone, becauseit takes the purchase of a
handgun or firearm uh from a30-minute process to a 10-minute
process because you still fillout the 4473 form, but you're
not required to undergo the NICScheck.
We just do the 4473, it's alldone, we stick it in the
(22:25):
pendiflex file, and you're done.
What about if you get deniedand you know it's not right?
Well, you can file an appealwith the FBI to say, hey, what's
going on here?
And let's assume for a minutethat the FBI comes back after
doing all this research and theysay, you know, you're right,
this isn't you, it's somebodyelse.
(22:46):
Um then they can correct it andthey can say you can go ahead
and purchase.
If that happens too often, theFBI can actually issue a unique
identifier code to you, and youcan use that in the future then
when purchasing firearms toprove what your identity is that
in fact you are qualified tomake a firearms purchase.
(23:11):
And um uh that makes the theprocess go a lot easier.
But there are uh there therehave been times.
I I know I was formerly anattorney in um Colorado, and
when I was practicing there, Iused to assist people who got
denials on firearms purchasesand denials of concealed handgun
(23:31):
permits and the like.
And, you know, there was a timewhen the initial response uh
from a background check inColorado, one-third of them, had
an error in them that resultedin a denial of the person's uh
request to purchase.
And then when the person filedan appeal within Colorado, they
(23:51):
file it with the uh State Bureauof Investigation, and they do
further investigating and go,oops, oh yeah, that wasn't you.
That was an incorrect record,and so we'll move on and we uh
we'll go ahead and correct that.
Um sometimes we actually had tofile court cases to go in and
prove.
There there can be situationsthat happen, um, and frequently
(24:14):
it uh it seems to happen whensomebody has a really old
charge.
Let's say you know thepurchaser got involved in a a
bar fight or something when theywere in college, and uh uh
being a former law enforcementofficer, uh, you know, I can I
can attest to the fact that, youknow, we just sort of charge
them with everything and thenlet the DA sort it out on
(24:37):
Monday.
And so what happens isfrequently in a situation like
that, someone might get chargedwith a disqualifying offense,
either a felony or uh amisdemeanor charge punishable by
more than a year in jail.
And uh that'll show up on thearrest record, which the FBI
InstaCheck goes and looks at andgoes, Oh, that's what's uh the
(25:00):
they've got an arrest here.
Well, what happens then isafter the arrest, the DA goes in
and looks at it and says, Oh,come on, this is overcharged.
Or maybe as part of a pleabargain, the DA agrees to reduce
it to a petty, disorderlyconduct, and you plead guilty to
that, and nothing ever happens.
(25:20):
You pay a little fine and thenyou're all done, right?
The problem is that arrestrecord is still in there.
And frequently there's nothingto show that that arrest record
actually got dismissed, or thatarresting charge got dismissed,
and ended up in a pettydisorderly conduct charge.
(25:42):
And so now the person has thisin there, it's popping up, the
FBI is looking at it and saying,well, it says he got arrested
for a felony, and we can't tellany differently.
So we're just gonna do adenial.
So those are the kinds ofthings where you might have to
get an attorney involved to tryand clean up the record there.
Um just as a disclaimer, uhwhile I remain licensed in
(26:04):
Colorado and I'm admitted beforethe United States Supreme
Court, I am not admitted topractice law in the state of
North Carolina.
So anything you hear in thesepodcasts is just sort of
anecdotal information based uponmy experience.
But if you uh needrepresentation to solve a
problem like this, uh you doneed to find a North Carolina
(26:25):
licensed attorney.
Well, hopefully that dispelssome of the myths and
misunderstandings about theprocess of buying a firearm.
It doesn't have to bedifficult, it doesn't have to be
as bad as buying a car, uh,particularly if you know what
the requirements are and youcome in prepared with your photo
ID and you're ready to go.
So we look forward to seeingyou in the store.
(26:47):
But for now, I'm Robert Warehamfrom Mountain West Firearms.
Have a great day, and we'll seeyou next time.
Introduction (26:54):
Thanks for listening to the Mountain West
Firearms Podcast, where skillmeets responsibility.
Subscribe for straight talk andexpert insight, and we'll see
you on the next one.
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