December 28, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode of the Mountain West Firearms Podcast, Robert Wareham breaks down how firearms laws, enforcement, and business realities can change dramatically depending on where you live—and why that matters for both gun owners and the industry.
The discussion begins with a major development at the federal level: the Department of Justice’s creation of a Second Amendment–focused unit within its Civil Rights Division. Robert explains why this structural shift could have real consequences for state and local practices, especially the slow-walking of concealed carry permits and regulatory pressure on lawful firearms businesses. Drawing on personal experience in North Carolina, he illustrates how delays and bureaucratic tactics can quietly undermine constitutional rights without public fanfare.
Next, the episode looks at holiday firearms sales and NICS background check data around Black Friday. While year-over-year numbers are down from historic highs, demand remains strong in key product categories, and the industry continues to adapt by spreading sales activity to reduce system strain.
The conversation then turns to “debanking”—the ongoing issue of financial institutions denying or restricting services to firearms-related businesses. Robert outlines how banking discrimination affects everything from merchant processing and insurance to leasing property, and why recent findings by federal regulators confirm what gun shops have long experienced firsthand. He argues that debanking doesn’t just hurt retailers; it raises costs and limits access for everyday consumers.
The episode also covers a significant Supreme Court ruling unanimously rejecting Mexico’s lawsuit against U.S. firearms manufacturers. Robert explains why this decision reinforces the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act (PLCAA) and why it will shape firearms litigation and “lawfare” strategies for years to come.
Finally, the show rounds out with quick updates from around the country, including California ammunition regulations, proposed firearm legislation in Florida and Michigan, hunting news, and federal efforts to restrict lead ammunition. The episode closes with a recap, a reminder to support local FFLs, and updates on upcoming training opportunities at Mountain West Firearms.
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Episode Transcript
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Introduction (00:02):
You're tuned in to the Mountain West Firearms
Podcast, where honest talk andexpert insight meet the world of
shooting, training, andresponsible firearm ownership.
Let's dive in.
Well, hello there.
Robert Wareham (00:15):
This is Robert Wareham with another Mountain
West Firearms Podcast, where wekeep it grounded in training,
equipment, industry reality, andthe policies that shape the
shooting sports industry.
Hey, here's a quick note.
I'm not your attorney, eventhough I am an attorney.
I'm not your attorney.
This isn't legal advice, andlaw is very wildly by state.
(00:35):
So if you've got a real issue,talk to a qualified counsel in
your jurisdiction.
Also, if you like these weeklyWhat Changed, What Matters
episodes, share it with a rangebuddy, and leave a review.
It helps us more than youthink.
Well, hey, if you've everthought, man, it feels like the
rules change depending on whatzip code you're standing in,
(00:56):
this episode is for you becausethis week we're talking about
three things that hit gun ownersand firearms businesses right
where we live.
One, the Department of Justiceis standing up a Second
Amendment focused unit insideits civil rights division of the
Dem uh Department of Justice.
Two, the NYX checks, what theydo and what they don't do, and
(01:17):
what November and Black Fridayweek actually look like.
And three, financial access,the debanking problem, and why
it matters whether you're buyinga new optic or trying to keep
your gun shop's merchant accountalive.
We'll also hit some fast movingstate fights, hunting
headlines, and one Supreme Courtdecision you'll hear referenced
(01:39):
for the next decade.
So let's get into it.
Let's start with big headlinesout of the National Shooting
Sports Foundation governmentrelations updates.
You know, before I go on, letme mention National Shooting
Sports Foundation is a greatindustry group for the firearms
retailer and range industry, andthey keep us up uh up to date
(02:00):
and informed on what's going onand things that impact us.
And I pass along many of thethings from their government
relations update to you here inthese podcasts.
But the Federal Department ofJustice is establishing a Second
Amendment's rights sectioninside the civil rights division
of DOJ.
Now, whatever your politicsare, that's a structural change
(02:23):
with real-world impact becausecivil rights is typically where
DOJ enforces constitutionalprotections as civil rights.
Historically, that division hasenforced laws around
discrimination, voting, housing,policing, similar civil rights
work.
You know, this is where youhear that the federal
(02:43):
government's suing over transpolicy or over this or DEI and
that sort of thing.
But you know, our firearmsrights, our gun rights, our
Second Amendment rights haveoften been relegated to almost a
second-class right, um, andthey really shouldn't be.
I mean, it is just as much aright as your freedom of speech,
your right to due process, yourright against uh
(03:06):
self-incrimination, but we seeconstant attacks on this very
fundamental right um byregulators and by uh government
agencies.
So the uh uh NSSF hassummarized this as a coarse
correction and says DOJ is goingto emphasize enforcement
(03:28):
against state and localpractices like slow walking
concealed carry permits,weaponizing licensing schemes,
lawfare aimed at gun businesses,and attempts to work around the
protection of lawful commercein arms act.
And the messaging comes outpublicly and it lines up with
the new unit is described asfocusing on state and local
(03:51):
policies that impose excessivefees, long permitting delays, or
broadbands that conflict withSupreme Court decisions.
Now, this really hits home herelocally for us.
Um Mountain West Firearms islocated in Buncombe County in
western North Carolina.
And um I will tell you, I Imoved to North Carolina back in
(04:16):
early 2024.
Uh I needed a concealed carrypermit here.
So I went through the process.
I took the class, I went downand got fingerprinted.
I think this all occurred in Ithink it was like August,
September, August or Septemberof 2024.
And I did not receive myconcealed carry permit until I
(04:39):
think it was February of 2025.
That's right.
It went from August toFebruary.
Now, when I called to inquireabout it, they said, well, we
had to redirect resourcesbecause of Helene.
And of course I lived throughHelene like everyone else, so I
thought, all right, I'll givethem the benefit of the doubt on
that.
But I found it interesting thatwhen it kept dragging on, I
(05:01):
made a freedom of informationrequest, a public records
inquiry of the sheriff's officeasking for the dates when all
these applications got filed.
And w, you know, I suppose itcould be a coincidence that my
permit arrived within a week ortwo later, but I doubt it.
My wife's took even longer, andshe applied at the exact same
(05:25):
time.
So this is the kind of obliqueum bias that uh DOJ hopefully is
going to go after.
They're gonna come in here tolook at it.
You know, the interesting thingis I had a customer come into
the store this week.
He had just taken our concealedcarry handgun course, which, by
the way, we're now offeringsecond Saturday of every month
(05:49):
starting in January.
So just know you can tell yourfriends, you can tell your
spouses, your girlfriends, yourboyfriends.
There's a concealed carryhandgun class the second
Saturday of every month startingwith the new year at Mountain
West Firearms.
And uh it runs from 8:30 to 5o'clock at night.
Uh we shoot midday, but uh Ihave handed out course surveys
(06:13):
to all of the students who'veattended it so far, and they
have been unanimous in theirpraise of the instruction and
the materials and just theoverall experience.
I mean, literally, almostwithout exception, everybody,
Mark, strongly agree that it wasa good course, the facility is
a good facility, they'recomfortable.
In fact, we've got a couple ofadditional tables in this week
(06:35):
so we can spread people out alittle more and give them a
little more room.
But that's just an aside.
But this gentleman attended ourclass about a week ago, went in
the following week, got hisfingerprints done at Buncombe
County, and was told by theclerk that he should not expect
his permit until next March.
(06:55):
Now, you might think, well,okay, that's four months.
The problem is the statestatute says the sheriff is to
issue that permit within 45days.
But there's a little clausethat they use to squirm around
this.
It says within 45 days of thefile being complete.
Well, who is unilaterally incontrol of that file being
(07:20):
complete?
The sheriff's offices.
If they're going to require amental health clearance, and
they don't ask for thatclearance for four or five weeks
after the application issubmitted, that just adds four
or five weeks to the time whenthe permit isn't there.
(07:41):
And this generally happens, andI've heard the same thing about
Charlotte Mecklenburg.
Mecklenburg County, same way.
They slow walk concealedweapons permits.
And the way they do it is bynot having your file be complete
within 45 days.
So my own personal hope is thatDOJ will take a look at North
(08:05):
Carolina and some of thesepockets, because that's what
they are.
They are pock pockets.
We have a liberal sheriff inBuncombe County, they have a
liberal sheriff in CharlotteMecklenburg County, and we all
know from the headlines what'sbeen going on down in Charlotte.
If there's ever a place youneed to be carrying a concealed
handgun, it is in Charlotte.
(08:26):
So we know what's going on.
I by comparison, I've been toldthat if you live in Henderson
County and you go in and youapply for a concealed carry
permit, that you will have thatpermit within a matter of a
couple of weeks.
Now, how do you how do youjustify the difference?
Is Henderson County doingsomething better or are they
(08:47):
doing something sloppier?
Why is our elected sheriff inBuncombe County dragging his
feet on issuing concealed carrypermits?
Well, I'll get off my soft uhuh soapbox, but you when rights
are denied, it's not always in abig dramatic press conference.
You're not gonna see thesheriff come out and say, well,
(09:07):
we're gonna slow walk these,we're gonna make it hard to get.
No, it's really sometimes adeath by a thousand small cuts,
if you will.
So, you know, you apply for apermit, you don't get it for
four months, or you wait so longfor a permit that the hunting
season is over, you comply withevery rule, but the rules are
(09:29):
designed to be expensive andslow.
Um a retailer like us getstreated like a villain, buried
in paperwork, threatened withcivil suits, or squeezed by
regulations that don't exist inother industries.
Now, here in North Carolina, weactually are fortunate.
We do have a state law thatsays that uh municipalities and
counties can't imposeextraordinary zoning controls on
(09:55):
firearms-related businesses.
And so that does give us uh alevel of protection there.
So just because an officeexists doesn't mean it becomes
effective overnight.
Um, it's a good step in theright direction.
Uh enforcement will depend onthe leadership over it, the
priorities and litigationstrategy.
(10:15):
The courts are going to matter,obviously, because they enforce
these through the courts, andif they land in front of a
liberal judge, the liberal judgecan ignore it.
And it can take, you know,months, if not years, to get
relief on some of these things.
Um, so that's something to keepan eye out.
So that's the DOJ side.
(10:36):
How about uh holiday shopping?
What's going on with thenational insta-check system?
Are we seeing an increase?
What are we seeing?
Well, the truth is NSSF reportsthat FBI completed 530,156
firearms-related backgroundchecks for the week leading up
(10:57):
to an ending on Black Friday in2025, and that was with 165,183
NICS checks on Black Fridayalone.
Uh the same summary notes thatdown, that those numbers are
down from 2024's comparableweek, and the industry uh has
(11:18):
tried to spread doorbusterdemand across the whole week to
avoid overwhelming the system.
In other words, they starttheir Black Friday sale on
Monday, like so many.
I mean, everybody's trying toget a jump on the next person.
Okay.
Uh, in terms of overall checksfor the uh entire month, um,
there were 1.4 million roughlychecks done for firearms
(11:43):
transfers, and uh the FBI, youknow, because checks are used
for different things, NSSFadjusts those.
The FBI numbers are actually alittle higher, um, but NSSF goes
in and pulls out the checksthat aren't for um uh firearms
transfers.
Um all right, so the numbersare down.
(12:04):
Uh even with a year-over-yeardecreases, there are still d
strong demands.
Part of the reason for this isthe baseline from prior years
was historically high, and Ithink we all know why over the
prior four years uh people weremore interested in buying
firearms.
And consumer demand moves inwaves based on politics, court
(12:24):
decisions, local events and thelike.
Um certain product categoriesstay hot.
Um optics, suppressors in thefreer states, and microcompacts
and training ammo uh whenavailable.
So all in all, the industryappears to be uh in good shape.
So let's move on now to a topicuh well actually a term you may
(12:48):
have heard called debanking.
And it's something that gunshops and gun owners have dealt
with for years.
It's banking discrimination.
Um and so they came up with theterm debanking.
And there's been claimsrecently, most recently, by
Jamie Dimon of J.P.
(13:08):
Morgan Chase that major banksdon't discriminate.
And uh the NSSF says, Well,we've got the receipts, we know
that isn't true.
And uh in my own personalexperience, uh I'm not gonna
name my local bank, but it is alocal bank.
And uh one of the bank officersshowed up in the store the
(13:31):
other day and I said, You hereon your lunch hour?
He said, No, I'm here onofficial business, and proceeded
to sit down and ask mequestions about how we do
business and who we sell to andthings like that.
And the ending question was,did you uh who who did you
accept a check from in aspecific amount on a certain
(13:52):
date?
And it happened to be from anLLC, because I have
professionals that come in andshop with us, and sometimes they
pay for them uh with theirbusiness checks.
And I thought it was verycurious.
Uh I thought it was almostinvasive.
And um with the newadministration, the Office of
the Comptroller of the Currencyhas actually come out and made
(14:16):
preliminary findings from areview of de-banking activities
at the nine largest nationalbanks that it supervises.
That includes JP Morgan Chase,Bank of America City, Wells
Fargo, and others.
And Reuters News Agencysummarized the Comptroller's
report as finding that largebanks had policies from roughly
(14:39):
2020 to 2023 that limited ordenied services to certain,
quote, politically sensitive,end quote, or disfavored
industries.
And firearms were explicitlyamong those categories.
So, well, you look at that, youdon't have to imagine what that
(14:59):
period from 2020 to 2023 was.
That was the Bidenadministration.
And obviously they're lookingat this, and if the comp troler,
you know, auditors come in andsay, who's this person?
And it's something they don'tlike, they're afraid, well,
they're going to do something tous, and so they just the banks
take the what they view as theeasy way out, the least risk um
(15:26):
way out.
And you might ask yourself,okay, how does this affect me?
Why, as the average um gunowner, should this uh uh affect
me?
Well, because B debanking hitsthe shooting community in very
normal ways.
Um A.
A new shop like ours maybe hasa more difficult time getting a
line of credit.
Uh merchant services getre-evaluated, rates jump, or
(15:48):
accounts get closed.
I will tell you that when weopened Mountain West Firearms,
our store, uh, we were confinedto a very select few uh credit
card processors that wouldactually do business with us.
Um the f once you have the wordfirearms in your name, they
don't want anything to do withyou.
(16:10):
In fact, I recently tried toset it up so I could accept
Venmo payments, and theyinitially approved it because
our our formal corporate name isactually Mountain West Group.
But when I told them our tradename was Mountain West Firearms
and put in our website, theycame back and said, No, we don't
do business with you, and youraccount has been frozen.
(16:32):
The other thing is insuranceand payment processing become a
maze.
We attempted to rent adifferent location along
Charlotte Highway back in early2025, maybe even 2024, and uh we
had reached a sh handshake dealwith the landlord, uh someone
(16:54):
local, uh, that we would rentthe space.
And when after about a week wedidn't see a lease come, uh I
reached out again and wasinformed by the landlord that
his insurance company had saidthey would cancel him for all of
his properties if he rented toa firearms store.
(17:14):
So that's the kind of stuff yourun into.
And that's really when Jenniferand I concluded we were gonna
have to buy our own property andbuild our own building.
And and the blessing in that isit helped us realize, well, if
we're gonna do that, we might aswell build a range.
We were fortunate to find ournew building where we're at now,
(17:36):
where the landlord was not onlyum not adverse, but he was
receptive to having a firearmsstore there.
So uh that problem sort ofsolved itself.
But all of this boils down tothe fact that it makes it more
expensive to do business, itmakes it more difficult to do
business, and that doesn'tbenefit the uh firearms retailer
(17:57):
or the customers because itmakes it so that uh the prices
of things go up.
You know, you look at it andyou say, well, banks d
legitimately have to deal withcompliance fraud, chargebacks,
regulatory pressure, and thelike, but when the policies are
written so broadly, uh such aswe don't bank firearms-related
(18:19):
businesses, that's notcase-by-case risk management.
That's an industry levelexclusion that I'm hoping this
administration is going toaddress through its appointment
to these very powerfulcommissions.
So regardless of where youstand politically, if a lawful,
heavily regulated industry canbe excluded because it's
controversial, stop thinkingabout it.
(18:40):
Any lawful industry in onecultural shift uh could be also
debanked and deprived of bankingservices.
And in this day and age,particularly with e-commerce and
the like, uh, that can be fatalto a business.
Okay, let's shift gears now tothe courts.
The United States Supreme Courtruled a while back that uh
(19:03):
Mexico's lawsuit, Smith andWesson Brands Incorporated,
versus Estados Unidos Mexicanos,um, well, they just rejected it
unanimously.
I mean, think about this.
We've got a very, very uh,shall we say, clearly divided
Supreme Court between liberalsand conservatives, yet when the
(19:26):
nation of Mexico attempted tosue one of our firearms
manufacturers, by the way, by anAmerican law firm who really
was just soliciting thisbusiness because they're
anti-gun, the Supreme Court cameback and said in a nine to zero
decision that this was notpermissible.
In fact, the court's opinionwas written by Liberal Justice
(19:49):
Kagan on June 5th, and it heldMexico's complaint did not
plausibly allege themanufacturers aided and abetted
unlawful sales in any way thatwould be.
fit within the PLCAA'sexceptions.
Now you might say, why doesthis matter?
Well, this isn't about whetheryou like big company big gun
(20:09):
company X.
This is about whether lawfulmanufacturers and sellers can be
held financially responsiblefor criminal misuse of their
products by third parties whenthe maker did not commit the
crime.
Think about it.
What if you could hold anautomobile manufacturer liable
for damage caused by a drunkdriver?
(20:30):
It's really no different, butthat's what they're seeking to
do with these lawsuits againstfirearm companies.
If you collapse that wall youcan regulate an industry through
litigation costs, what peoplecall in this day and age
lawfare.
Even if the legislature can'tpass a ban, what happens is you
have all of these claimants andmany of them now in these types
(20:53):
of lawfare lawsuits arenongovernmental organizations or
nonprofits that are just formedand then they sue and they sue
just hoping to settle.
And so they make money this wayand believe it or not, even
though they're nonprofits, theexecutives of these nonprofits
are handsomely paid.
And so it's a sue and settlekind of routine.
(21:15):
They sue the government, theysue uh other agencies, and
because the cost of litigationis so high, these these outfits
settle with them.
I I remember when I was anattorney, you know, you carry
malpractice insurance and if youhave a claim, many of these
insurers they just want to lookat it and go, all right, well,
(21:36):
give them $50,000 to get them goaway, even if it's a completely
frivolous suit.
Well included in that $50,000is the lawyer's $10,000
deductible.
So they're really only at$40,000.
You know, you paid them todefend you and yet they don't
want to do it.
But that's another topic.
But this is a way that anti-gungroups try to cripple our
(22:02):
industry and frankly even us asusers eventually, because it's
going to make the cost of buyingfirearms so much higher.
That's the whole reason thatthe PLCAA exists and that's why
this decision is going to getcited constantly.
As FFLs we already live withthe reality of massive
(22:26):
regulatory oversight, paperworkand record keeping compliance
inspections, liability exposuresthat most industries don't
carry.
So when states attempt tocreate end runs around PLCAA,
such as one going on right nowin uh New York, they're going to
just make this more difficultfor all of us.
(22:48):
So it's going to be uh it's agood thing that the Supreme
Court was unanimous in its uhresponse here and uh hopefully
we won't have to deal with thisum too much more in the future
but that may be wishful thinkingthe way everybody likes to go
after the gun people.
All right let's take a look afew quick hits at what's going
(23:10):
on uh around in different statesremember that California had a
case pending where you had tohave background checks every
time you purchased ammunition.
I mean can you imagine cominginto Mountain West firearms to
buy yourself two boxes of ninemil to do a little uh target
shooting in your backyard and wehad to stop have you fill out a
(23:33):
4473 or some other kind of formand run a background check on
you just so that you couldpurchase that ammunition.
Well a um Superior Court judgein uh California issued a uh an
injunction against the stateenforcing that law uh it was uh
(23:54):
appealed to the Court of Appealsa three-judge panel of the
Court of Appeals and they allhappened to be uh Republican
appointed judges found that thatdid not comply with New York
State rifle and pistol versusBruin the seminal Supreme Court
case that happened a few yearsago and so um the State of
(24:16):
California has now uh asked haspetitioned the Court of Appeals
when you have just a three-judgepanel of the Court of Appeals
make a decision on something youhave the right to petition the
court for what they call anenbank hearing which means all
of the judges of the Court ofAppeals.
And of course what they'rehoping is you know many of the
(24:39):
judges I think another seven orso of the eleven were appointed
by Democrat judges they'rehoping that all of those judges
will overturn the three judgepanel and um uphold the state's
law on background checks.
So that law is really sort ofin flux and I think the the
(24:59):
judge's injunction has stayedwhile it's going on um and we're
gonna have to wait and see howthat happens.
The uh the new hearing it'll bea totally new hearing before
the Court of Appeals uh and itwill be N Bunk and uh the next
step after that these are infederal court so the next step
after that would be um an appealto the U.S.
(25:21):
Supreme Court legislation inFlorida would uh seek lowering
the long gun purchase age backto age 18 from 21 and uh that is
House Bill 133 down in Florida.
I know we have a lot ofcustomers come into the store
that divide their time betweenFlorida and North Carolina so
(25:44):
that may be something to keep aneye on.
Michigan Michigan lawmakers areconsidering a do not sell lists
and raise concerns aboutprivacy and accuracy even while
supporting suicide prevention.
Senate Bill 539 in Michigan uhis addressing firearm do not
sell lists um you know suicideprevention is real safe storage
(26:07):
is real the implementationdetails and due process privacy
details are where the argumentslive I mean we obviously have
suicide prevention notices andpamphlets in our store nobody
wants to see that nobody wantsto see guns used unlawfully at
least no law abiding gun user umand you might ask yourself why
(26:31):
are all these other states?
Well you know these states uhmany of these bills are brought
forward by special interestgroups who oppose firearms and
they go to one state see if theycan get it passed there and
then they use that as leverageto go to other states and they
say oh well uh Michigan passedthis so now Minnesota you should
(26:53):
pass this as well and they justsort of try to build their
momentum that way.
It's remarkable to me as anattorney how many laws there are
in different states that veryclosely resemble laws in another
state.
And it's because of this kindof shall we say uh uh suggestion
(27:15):
by special interest groups asto what laws should put into
place and then the states goingalong with it.
Um and and it does it creates aripple effect.
Another thing down in Floridaum they they uh have announced
the Wildlife Agency in Floridahas announced a 2025 bear hunt
(27:35):
season and it's the first bearhunt season they've had in
Florida in a decade.
And they're issuing 172 permitsand the season will run from
December 6th through 28 of 2025.
So that's an interesting onethe bears must be taking over
down there.
Um it was a busy bear year hereobviously in western North
(27:56):
Carolina in CongressRepresentative Ted Liu is
reintroducing the Lead Actthat's House Resolution 6268 to
restrict lead ammo on UnitedStates Fish and wildlife service
lands.
So uh if you're somebody wholikes to do your hunting on U.S.
(28:17):
Fish and wildlife service landsyou may want to reach out to
your Congressperson and let themknow your position on that.
Okay well that's about it forthis episode.
Let me uh just recap realquickly we talked about the ammo
rules uh know your state's ammorules and let's keep an eye on
that California case because uhI think you could have effect um
(28:41):
broader effect uh throughoutthe nation and then uh be aware
of the debanking problems andand uh support your local uh
FFLs who are having to deal withthese kinds of problems I know
we've dealt with them and andpushed against it and we really
appreciate all the support thatwe've received here in the
(29:02):
community.
And another thing uh want toshare with you that we've got uh
training coming up at MountainWest we really appreciate uh a
local property owner making hisland available where he created
a uh a safe shooting area wherewe can do some training so as I
mentioned I think earlier we'regonna have concealed carry
(29:22):
handgun courses courses on thesecond Saturday of uh every
month we are also looking tooffer an advanced handgun course
uh which will involve shootingwhile in motion shooting from
the holster things like that wehave a pistol cleaning kinetic
clinic coming up on uh January17 I believe it is if that's a
(29:45):
Saturday believe it's January 17a pistol cleaning clinic um and
that's interesting we're goingto provide you with a universal
pistol cleaning kit it runseverything from 22 long rifle
all the way up to 45 mags so ifyou own several firearms or you
purchase additional firearms inthe future uh this kit will
serve all those needs so that'sincluded in the 7995 um uh uh
(30:10):
registration amount and thenwe'll just go through it you
bring in uh whatever firearmyou'd like to learn to clean and
we will assist you in uhbreaking it down showing you how
to clean it keep it lubricatedand and keep your firearm in
good shape so that's coming upas well we also hope to offer
some courses for kids in thefuture about firearm safety uh
(30:33):
and how to be around firearms umwithout posing a threat to
others well that's gonna do itfor this episode I'm Robert
Wareham from Mountain WestFirearms if you live in the
Asheville area we'd love to meetyou in person.
Stop by the store we're at 1484Charlotte Highway which is uh
just north of King Creek Road onuh U.S.
(30:56):
Highway 74A we're open from 9to 4 Tuesday through Saturday
and I say 9 to 4 because we'redown to our shorter winter
hours.
So those hours will probablylast till daylight savings time
returns in March.
We just found that after itgets dark there isn't many
(31:18):
people out the coming out.
So our hours will have winterhours 9 to 4 starting basically
on about December 30th and thatwill run through when the time
changes again in March.
Introduction (31:31):
Until next time train safe, store safe and I'll
see you on the range thanks forlistening to the Mountain West
Firearms Podcast where skillmeets responsibility.
Subscribe for straight talk andexpert insight and we'll see
you on the next one.
You're tuned in to the Mountain West Firearms
Podcast, where honest talk andexpert insight meet the world of
shooting, training, andresponsible firearm ownership.
Let's dive in.
Well, hello there.
Robert Wareham (00:15):
This is Robert Wareham with another Mountain
West Firearms Podcast, where wekeep it grounded in training,
equipment, industry reality, andthe policies that shape the
shooting sports industry.
Hey, here's a quick note.
I'm not your attorney, eventhough I am an attorney.
I'm not your attorney.
This isn't legal advice, andlaw is very wildly by state.
(00:35):
So if you've got a real issue,talk to a qualified counsel in
your jurisdiction.
Also, if you like these weeklyWhat Changed, What Matters
episodes, share it with a rangebuddy, and leave a review.
It helps us more than youthink.
Well, hey, if you've everthought, man, it feels like the
rules change depending on whatzip code you're standing in,
(00:56):
this episode is for you becausethis week we're talking about
three things that hit gun ownersand firearms businesses right
where we live.
One, the Department of Justiceis standing up a Second
Amendment focused unit insideits civil rights division of the
Dem uh Department of Justice.
Two, the NYX checks, what theydo and what they don't do, and
(01:17):
what November and Black Fridayweek actually look like.
And three, financial access,the debanking problem, and why
it matters whether you're buyinga new optic or trying to keep
your gun shop's merchant accountalive.
We'll also hit some fast movingstate fights, hunting
headlines, and one Supreme Courtdecision you'll hear referenced
(01:39):
for the next decade.
So let's get into it.
Let's start with big headlinesout of the National Shooting
Sports Foundation governmentrelations updates.
You know, before I go on, letme mention National Shooting
Sports Foundation is a greatindustry group for the firearms
retailer and range industry, andthey keep us up uh up to date
(02:00):
and informed on what's going onand things that impact us.
And I pass along many of thethings from their government
relations update to you here inthese podcasts.
But the Federal Department ofJustice is establishing a Second
Amendment's rights sectioninside the civil rights division
of DOJ.
Now, whatever your politicsare, that's a structural change
(02:23):
with real-world impact becausecivil rights is typically where
DOJ enforces constitutionalprotections as civil rights.
Historically, that division hasenforced laws around
discrimination, voting, housing,policing, similar civil rights
work.
You know, this is where youhear that the federal
(02:43):
government's suing over transpolicy or over this or DEI and
that sort of thing.
But you know, our firearmsrights, our gun rights, our
Second Amendment rights haveoften been relegated to almost a
second-class right, um, andthey really shouldn't be.
I mean, it is just as much aright as your freedom of speech,
your right to due process, yourright against uh
(03:06):
self-incrimination, but we seeconstant attacks on this very
fundamental right um byregulators and by uh government
agencies.
So the uh uh NSSF hassummarized this as a coarse
correction and says DOJ is goingto emphasize enforcement
(03:28):
against state and localpractices like slow walking
concealed carry permits,weaponizing licensing schemes,
lawfare aimed at gun businesses,and attempts to work around the
protection of lawful commercein arms act.
And the messaging comes outpublicly and it lines up with
the new unit is described asfocusing on state and local
(03:51):
policies that impose excessivefees, long permitting delays, or
broadbands that conflict withSupreme Court decisions.
Now, this really hits home herelocally for us.
Um Mountain West Firearms islocated in Buncombe County in
western North Carolina.
And um I will tell you, I Imoved to North Carolina back in
(04:16):
early 2024.
Uh I needed a concealed carrypermit here.
So I went through the process.
I took the class, I went downand got fingerprinted.
I think this all occurred in Ithink it was like August,
September, August or Septemberof 2024.
And I did not receive myconcealed carry permit until I
(04:39):
think it was February of 2025.
That's right.
It went from August toFebruary.
Now, when I called to inquireabout it, they said, well, we
had to redirect resourcesbecause of Helene.
And of course I lived throughHelene like everyone else, so I
thought, all right, I'll givethem the benefit of the doubt on
that.
But I found it interesting thatwhen it kept dragging on, I
(05:01):
made a freedom of informationrequest, a public records
inquiry of the sheriff's officeasking for the dates when all
these applications got filed.
And w, you know, I suppose itcould be a coincidence that my
permit arrived within a week ortwo later, but I doubt it.
My wife's took even longer, andshe applied at the exact same
(05:25):
time.
So this is the kind of obliqueum bias that uh DOJ hopefully is
going to go after.
They're gonna come in here tolook at it.
You know, the interesting thingis I had a customer come into
the store this week.
He had just taken our concealedcarry handgun course, which, by
the way, we're now offeringsecond Saturday of every month
(05:49):
starting in January.
So just know you can tell yourfriends, you can tell your
spouses, your girlfriends, yourboyfriends.
There's a concealed carryhandgun class the second
Saturday of every month startingwith the new year at Mountain
West Firearms.
And uh it runs from 8:30 to 5o'clock at night.
Uh we shoot midday, but uh Ihave handed out course surveys
(06:13):
to all of the students who'veattended it so far, and they
have been unanimous in theirpraise of the instruction and
the materials and just theoverall experience.
I mean, literally, almostwithout exception, everybody,
Mark, strongly agree that it wasa good course, the facility is
a good facility, they'recomfortable.
In fact, we've got a couple ofadditional tables in this week
(06:35):
so we can spread people out alittle more and give them a
little more room.
But that's just an aside.
But this gentleman attended ourclass about a week ago, went in
the following week, got hisfingerprints done at Buncombe
County, and was told by theclerk that he should not expect
his permit until next March.
(06:55):
Now, you might think, well,okay, that's four months.
The problem is the statestatute says the sheriff is to
issue that permit within 45days.
But there's a little clausethat they use to squirm around
this.
It says within 45 days of thefile being complete.
Well, who is unilaterally incontrol of that file being
(07:20):
complete?
The sheriff's offices.
If they're going to require amental health clearance, and
they don't ask for thatclearance for four or five weeks
after the application issubmitted, that just adds four
or five weeks to the time whenthe permit isn't there.
(07:41):
And this generally happens, andI've heard the same thing about
Charlotte Mecklenburg.
Mecklenburg County, same way.
They slow walk concealedweapons permits.
And the way they do it is bynot having your file be complete
within 45 days.
So my own personal hope is thatDOJ will take a look at North
(08:05):
Carolina and some of thesepockets, because that's what
they are.
They are pock pockets.
We have a liberal sheriff inBuncombe County, they have a
liberal sheriff in CharlotteMecklenburg County, and we all
know from the headlines what'sbeen going on down in Charlotte.
If there's ever a place youneed to be carrying a concealed
handgun, it is in Charlotte.
(08:26):
So we know what's going on.
I by comparison, I've been toldthat if you live in Henderson
County and you go in and youapply for a concealed carry
permit, that you will have thatpermit within a matter of a
couple of weeks.
Now, how do you how do youjustify the difference?
Is Henderson County doingsomething better or are they
(08:47):
doing something sloppier?
Why is our elected sheriff inBuncombe County dragging his
feet on issuing concealed carrypermits?
Well, I'll get off my soft uhuh soapbox, but you when rights
are denied, it's not always in abig dramatic press conference.
You're not gonna see thesheriff come out and say, well,
(09:07):
we're gonna slow walk these,we're gonna make it hard to get.
No, it's really sometimes adeath by a thousand small cuts,
if you will.
So, you know, you apply for apermit, you don't get it for
four months, or you wait so longfor a permit that the hunting
season is over, you comply withevery rule, but the rules are
(09:29):
designed to be expensive andslow.
Um a retailer like us getstreated like a villain, buried
in paperwork, threatened withcivil suits, or squeezed by
regulations that don't exist inother industries.
Now, here in North Carolina, weactually are fortunate.
We do have a state law thatsays that uh municipalities and
counties can't imposeextraordinary zoning controls on
(09:55):
firearms-related businesses.
And so that does give us uh alevel of protection there.
So just because an officeexists doesn't mean it becomes
effective overnight.
Um, it's a good step in theright direction.
Uh enforcement will depend onthe leadership over it, the
priorities and litigationstrategy.
(10:15):
The courts are going to matter,obviously, because they enforce
these through the courts, andif they land in front of a
liberal judge, the liberal judgecan ignore it.
And it can take, you know,months, if not years, to get
relief on some of these things.
Um, so that's something to keepan eye out.
So that's the DOJ side.
(10:36):
How about uh holiday shopping?
What's going on with thenational insta-check system?
Are we seeing an increase?
What are we seeing?
Well, the truth is NSSF reportsthat FBI completed 530,156
firearms-related backgroundchecks for the week leading up
(10:57):
to an ending on Black Friday in2025, and that was with 165,183
NICS checks on Black Fridayalone.
Uh the same summary notes thatdown, that those numbers are
down from 2024's comparableweek, and the industry uh has
(11:18):
tried to spread doorbusterdemand across the whole week to
avoid overwhelming the system.
In other words, they starttheir Black Friday sale on
Monday, like so many.
I mean, everybody's trying toget a jump on the next person.
Okay.
Uh, in terms of overall checksfor the uh entire month, um,
there were 1.4 million roughlychecks done for firearms
(11:43):
transfers, and uh the FBI, youknow, because checks are used
for different things, NSSFadjusts those.
The FBI numbers are actually alittle higher, um, but NSSF goes
in and pulls out the checksthat aren't for um uh firearms
transfers.
Um all right, so the numbersare down.
(12:04):
Uh even with a year-over-yeardecreases, there are still d
strong demands.
Part of the reason for this isthe baseline from prior years
was historically high, and Ithink we all know why over the
prior four years uh people weremore interested in buying
firearms.
And consumer demand moves inwaves based on politics, court
(12:24):
decisions, local events and thelike.
Um certain product categoriesstay hot.
Um optics, suppressors in thefreer states, and microcompacts
and training ammo uh whenavailable.
So all in all, the industryappears to be uh in good shape.
So let's move on now to a topicuh well actually a term you may
(12:48):
have heard called debanking.
And it's something that gunshops and gun owners have dealt
with for years.
It's banking discrimination.
Um and so they came up with theterm debanking.
And there's been claimsrecently, most recently, by
Jamie Dimon of J.P.
(13:08):
Morgan Chase that major banksdon't discriminate.
And uh the NSSF says, Well,we've got the receipts, we know
that isn't true.
And uh in my own personalexperience, uh I'm not gonna
name my local bank, but it is alocal bank.
And uh one of the bank officersshowed up in the store the
(13:31):
other day and I said, You hereon your lunch hour?
He said, No, I'm here onofficial business, and proceeded
to sit down and ask mequestions about how we do
business and who we sell to andthings like that.
And the ending question was,did you uh who who did you
accept a check from in aspecific amount on a certain
(13:52):
date?
And it happened to be from anLLC, because I have
professionals that come in andshop with us, and sometimes they
pay for them uh with theirbusiness checks.
And I thought it was verycurious.
Uh I thought it was almostinvasive.
And um with the newadministration, the Office of
the Comptroller of the Currencyhas actually come out and made
(14:16):
preliminary findings from areview of de-banking activities
at the nine largest nationalbanks that it supervises.
That includes JP Morgan Chase,Bank of America City, Wells
Fargo, and others.
And Reuters News Agencysummarized the Comptroller's
report as finding that largebanks had policies from roughly
(14:39):
2020 to 2023 that limited ordenied services to certain,
quote, politically sensitive,end quote, or disfavored
industries.
And firearms were explicitlyamong those categories.
So, well, you look at that, youdon't have to imagine what that
(14:59):
period from 2020 to 2023 was.
That was the Bidenadministration.
And obviously they're lookingat this, and if the comp troler,
you know, auditors come in andsay, who's this person?
And it's something they don'tlike, they're afraid, well,
they're going to do something tous, and so they just the banks
take the what they view as theeasy way out, the least risk um
(15:26):
way out.
And you might ask yourself,okay, how does this affect me?
Why, as the average um gunowner, should this uh uh affect
me?
Well, because B debanking hitsthe shooting community in very
normal ways.
Um A.
A new shop like ours maybe hasa more difficult time getting a
line of credit.
Uh merchant services getre-evaluated, rates jump, or
(15:48):
accounts get closed.
I will tell you that when weopened Mountain West Firearms,
our store, uh, we were confinedto a very select few uh credit
card processors that wouldactually do business with us.
Um the f once you have the wordfirearms in your name, they
don't want anything to do withyou.
(16:10):
In fact, I recently tried toset it up so I could accept
Venmo payments, and theyinitially approved it because
our our formal corporate name isactually Mountain West Group.
But when I told them our tradename was Mountain West Firearms
and put in our website, theycame back and said, No, we don't
do business with you, and youraccount has been frozen.
(16:32):
The other thing is insuranceand payment processing become a
maze.
We attempted to rent adifferent location along
Charlotte Highway back in early2025, maybe even 2024, and uh we
had reached a sh handshake dealwith the landlord, uh someone
(16:54):
local, uh, that we would rentthe space.
And when after about a week wedidn't see a lease come, uh I
reached out again and wasinformed by the landlord that
his insurance company had saidthey would cancel him for all of
his properties if he rented toa firearms store.
(17:14):
So that's the kind of stuff yourun into.
And that's really when Jenniferand I concluded we were gonna
have to buy our own property andbuild our own building.
And and the blessing in that isit helped us realize, well, if
we're gonna do that, we might aswell build a range.
We were fortunate to find ournew building where we're at now,
(17:36):
where the landlord was not onlyum not adverse, but he was
receptive to having a firearmsstore there.
So uh that problem sort ofsolved itself.
But all of this boils down tothe fact that it makes it more
expensive to do business, itmakes it more difficult to do
business, and that doesn'tbenefit the uh firearms retailer
(17:57):
or the customers because itmakes it so that uh the prices
of things go up.
You know, you look at it andyou say, well, banks d
legitimately have to deal withcompliance fraud, chargebacks,
regulatory pressure, and thelike, but when the policies are
written so broadly, uh such aswe don't bank firearms-related
(18:19):
businesses, that's notcase-by-case risk management.
That's an industry levelexclusion that I'm hoping this
administration is going toaddress through its appointment
to these very powerfulcommissions.
So regardless of where youstand politically, if a lawful,
heavily regulated industry canbe excluded because it's
controversial, stop thinkingabout it.
(18:40):
Any lawful industry in onecultural shift uh could be also
debanked and deprived of bankingservices.
And in this day and age,particularly with e-commerce and
the like, uh, that can be fatalto a business.
Okay, let's shift gears now tothe courts.
The United States Supreme Courtruled a while back that uh
(19:03):
Mexico's lawsuit, Smith andWesson Brands Incorporated,
versus Estados Unidos Mexicanos,um, well, they just rejected it
unanimously.
I mean, think about this.
We've got a very, very uh,shall we say, clearly divided
Supreme Court between liberalsand conservatives, yet when the
(19:26):
nation of Mexico attempted tosue one of our firearms
manufacturers, by the way, by anAmerican law firm who really
was just soliciting thisbusiness because they're
anti-gun, the Supreme Court cameback and said in a nine to zero
decision that this was notpermissible.
In fact, the court's opinionwas written by Liberal Justice
(19:49):
Kagan on June 5th, and it heldMexico's complaint did not
plausibly allege themanufacturers aided and abetted
unlawful sales in any way thatwould be.
fit within the PLCAA'sexceptions.
Now you might say, why doesthis matter?
Well, this isn't about whetheryou like big company big gun
(20:09):
company X.
This is about whether lawfulmanufacturers and sellers can be
held financially responsiblefor criminal misuse of their
products by third parties whenthe maker did not commit the
crime.
Think about it.
What if you could hold anautomobile manufacturer liable
for damage caused by a drunkdriver?
(20:30):
It's really no different, butthat's what they're seeking to
do with these lawsuits againstfirearm companies.
If you collapse that wall youcan regulate an industry through
litigation costs, what peoplecall in this day and age
lawfare.
Even if the legislature can'tpass a ban, what happens is you
have all of these claimants andmany of them now in these types
(20:53):
of lawfare lawsuits arenongovernmental organizations or
nonprofits that are just formedand then they sue and they sue
just hoping to settle.
And so they make money this wayand believe it or not, even
though they're nonprofits, theexecutives of these nonprofits
are handsomely paid.
And so it's a sue and settlekind of routine.
(21:15):
They sue the government, theysue uh other agencies, and
because the cost of litigationis so high, these these outfits
settle with them.
I I remember when I was anattorney, you know, you carry
malpractice insurance and if youhave a claim, many of these
insurers they just want to lookat it and go, all right, well,
(21:36):
give them $50,000 to get them goaway, even if it's a completely
frivolous suit.
Well included in that $50,000is the lawyer's $10,000
deductible.
So they're really only at$40,000.
You know, you paid them todefend you and yet they don't
want to do it.
But that's another topic.
But this is a way that anti-gungroups try to cripple our
(22:02):
industry and frankly even us asusers eventually, because it's
going to make the cost of buyingfirearms so much higher.
That's the whole reason thatthe PLCAA exists and that's why
this decision is going to getcited constantly.
As FFLs we already live withthe reality of massive
(22:26):
regulatory oversight, paperworkand record keeping compliance
inspections, liability exposuresthat most industries don't
carry.
So when states attempt tocreate end runs around PLCAA,
such as one going on right nowin uh New York, they're going to
just make this more difficultfor all of us.
(22:48):
So it's going to be uh it's agood thing that the Supreme
Court was unanimous in its uhresponse here and uh hopefully
we won't have to deal with thisum too much more in the future
but that may be wishful thinkingthe way everybody likes to go
after the gun people.
All right let's take a look afew quick hits at what's going
(23:10):
on uh around in different statesremember that California had a
case pending where you had tohave background checks every
time you purchased ammunition.
I mean can you imagine cominginto Mountain West firearms to
buy yourself two boxes of ninemil to do a little uh target
shooting in your backyard and wehad to stop have you fill out a
(23:33):
4473 or some other kind of formand run a background check on
you just so that you couldpurchase that ammunition.
Well a um Superior Court judgein uh California issued a uh an
injunction against the stateenforcing that law uh it was uh
(23:54):
appealed to the Court of Appealsa three-judge panel of the
Court of Appeals and they allhappened to be uh Republican
appointed judges found that thatdid not comply with New York
State rifle and pistol versusBruin the seminal Supreme Court
case that happened a few yearsago and so um the State of
(24:16):
California has now uh asked haspetitioned the Court of Appeals
when you have just a three-judgepanel of the Court of Appeals
make a decision on something youhave the right to petition the
court for what they call anenbank hearing which means all
of the judges of the Court ofAppeals.
And of course what they'rehoping is you know many of the
(24:39):
judges I think another seven orso of the eleven were appointed
by Democrat judges they'rehoping that all of those judges
will overturn the three judgepanel and um uphold the state's
law on background checks.
So that law is really sort ofin flux and I think the the
(24:59):
judge's injunction has stayedwhile it's going on um and we're
gonna have to wait and see howthat happens.
The uh the new hearing it'll bea totally new hearing before
the Court of Appeals uh and itwill be N Bunk and uh the next
step after that these are infederal court so the next step
after that would be um an appealto the U.S.
(25:21):
Supreme Court legislation inFlorida would uh seek lowering
the long gun purchase age backto age 18 from 21 and uh that is
House Bill 133 down in Florida.
I know we have a lot ofcustomers come into the store
that divide their time betweenFlorida and North Carolina so
(25:44):
that may be something to keep aneye on.
Michigan Michigan lawmakers areconsidering a do not sell lists
and raise concerns aboutprivacy and accuracy even while
supporting suicide prevention.
Senate Bill 539 in Michigan uhis addressing firearm do not
sell lists um you know suicideprevention is real safe storage
(26:07):
is real the implementationdetails and due process privacy
details are where the argumentslive I mean we obviously have
suicide prevention notices andpamphlets in our store nobody
wants to see that nobody wantsto see guns used unlawfully at
least no law abiding gun user umand you might ask yourself why
(26:31):
are all these other states?
Well you know these states uhmany of these bills are brought
forward by special interestgroups who oppose firearms and
they go to one state see if theycan get it passed there and
then they use that as leverageto go to other states and they
say oh well uh Michigan passedthis so now Minnesota you should
(26:53):
pass this as well and they justsort of try to build their
momentum that way.
It's remarkable to me as anattorney how many laws there are
in different states that veryclosely resemble laws in another
state.
And it's because of this kindof shall we say uh uh suggestion
(27:15):
by special interest groups asto what laws should put into
place and then the states goingalong with it.
Um and and it does it creates aripple effect.
Another thing down in Floridaum they they uh have announced
the Wildlife Agency in Floridahas announced a 2025 bear hunt
(27:35):
season and it's the first bearhunt season they've had in
Florida in a decade.
And they're issuing 172 permitsand the season will run from
December 6th through 28 of 2025.
So that's an interesting onethe bears must be taking over
down there.
Um it was a busy bear year hereobviously in western North
(27:56):
Carolina in CongressRepresentative Ted Liu is
reintroducing the Lead Actthat's House Resolution 6268 to
restrict lead ammo on UnitedStates Fish and wildlife service
lands.
So uh if you're somebody wholikes to do your hunting on U.S.
(28:17):
Fish and wildlife service landsyou may want to reach out to
your Congressperson and let themknow your position on that.
Okay well that's about it forthis episode.
Let me uh just recap realquickly we talked about the ammo
rules uh know your state's ammorules and let's keep an eye on
that California case because uhI think you could have effect um
(28:41):
broader effect uh throughoutthe nation and then uh be aware
of the debanking problems andand uh support your local uh
FFLs who are having to deal withthese kinds of problems I know
we've dealt with them and andpushed against it and we really
appreciate all the support thatwe've received here in the
(29:02):
community.
And another thing uh want toshare with you that we've got uh
training coming up at MountainWest we really appreciate uh a
local property owner making hisland available where he created
a uh a safe shooting area wherewe can do some training so as I
mentioned I think earlier we'regonna have concealed carry
(29:22):
handgun courses courses on thesecond Saturday of uh every
month we are also looking tooffer an advanced handgun course
uh which will involve shootingwhile in motion shooting from
the holster things like that wehave a pistol cleaning kinetic
clinic coming up on uh January17 I believe it is if that's a
(29:45):
Saturday believe it's January 17a pistol cleaning clinic um and
that's interesting we're goingto provide you with a universal
pistol cleaning kit it runseverything from 22 long rifle
all the way up to 45 mags so ifyou own several firearms or you
purchase additional firearms inthe future uh this kit will
serve all those needs so that'sincluded in the 7995 um uh uh
(30:10):
registration amount and thenwe'll just go through it you
bring in uh whatever firearmyou'd like to learn to clean and
we will assist you in uhbreaking it down showing you how
to clean it keep it lubricatedand and keep your firearm in
good shape so that's coming upas well we also hope to offer
some courses for kids in thefuture about firearm safety uh
(30:33):
and how to be around firearms umwithout posing a threat to
others well that's gonna do itfor this episode I'm Robert
Wareham from Mountain WestFirearms if you live in the
Asheville area we'd love to meetyou in person.
Stop by the store we're at 1484Charlotte Highway which is uh
just north of King Creek Road onuh U.S.
(30:56):
Highway 74A we're open from 9to 4 Tuesday through Saturday
and I say 9 to 4 because we'redown to our shorter winter
hours.
So those hours will probablylast till daylight savings time
returns in March.
We just found that after itgets dark there isn't many
(31:18):
people out the coming out.
So our hours will have winterhours 9 to 4 starting basically
on about December 30th and thatwill run through when the time
changes again in March.
Introduction (31:31):
Until next time train safe, store safe and I'll
see you on the range thanks forlistening to the Mountain West
Firearms Podcast where skillmeets responsibility.
Subscribe for straight talk andexpert insight and we'll see
you on the next one.
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