December 19, 2025 • 30 mins
In this episode, Gian discusses his personal interests, such as surfing and Brazilian jiujitsu, and shares pivotal moments in his professional journey, including founding KBKG and launching successful software. He emphasizes the importance of early investment for tax advantages and reflects on missed opportunities in real estate. Gian also offers a valuable communication tip involving AI and underscores the long-term benefits of strategic planning for future generations. Finally, he defines success in his field as achieving financial freedom that allows for a relaxed and enjoyable life.
00:00 Introduction to the Focus Round
24:15 Fun Activities and Hobbies
24:26 Game-Changing Opportunities
24:55 Communication Tips for Complex Ideas
25:40 Early Investment Insights
26:55 Legacy and Long-Term Impact
27:42 Defining Success After 25 Years
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Thank you to all of our listeners!!! We would love to hear from you!!!
Email me at:
hutch@hsquaredcapital.com
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Visit our website to find out more:
www.hsquaredcapital.com
Join our Facebook Group:
The Multifamily Real Estate Experiment
Follow us on Instagram:
@hutchthemarineinvestor
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker (00:00):
Wah gwan all you Multifamily enthusiast.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Multifamily Real Estate
Experiment Podcast, where webreak down mindset mechanics,
tax strategies, and how to helpyou the passive investor own
more of America.
Today we're gonna ask thequestion.
How can passive investor usecost segregation to reduce
taxes, increase cash flow, andbuild real estate wealth faster?
(00:25):
Today's guest, is a trueheavyweight in the world of tax
strategy and accelerateddepreciation.
See, Gian Pazzia is the author,speaker, a structural engineer
turned tax strategist, expert,and one of the nation's top
authorities in call segregation.
He's the co-founder of KBKG,which is a national leader in
(00:49):
cost segregation study, and Ithas helped his clients save over
$10 billion in taxes since 1999see Gian, and he has served as a
president of the AmericanSociety of Cost Segregation
Professionals.
He has provided expert witness.
His testimony to the IRS andhe's been published in over 20
times in major tax journals.
(01:11):
Brother, this is a bio that youdon't see quite often, man.
Thank you for joining us on thispodcast episode.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, lifetime.
Really happy to be here, Hutch.
Thank you for that greatintroduction.
Speaker (01:22):
Man, it's all you brother.
So man, I like to ask my guestsbefore we get into the vault of
tax strategy, do you have afavorite quote or mantra or
principle that guides how youthink about real estate taxes or
helping investor build wealth?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
A guiding principle.
if I had a guiding principle, itwould be, make sure you.
Look at your biggest expenseevery year, and that's gonna be
your taxes.
And, if you can get your biggestexpense down, even just a little
bit, it usually is going to,make a big difference, for your
(02:01):
real estate portfolio.
So if you can lower that taxbill, not pay until Sam reinvest
that money into real estate.
That's what the sophisticatedreal estate investors have been
doing, in this country foryears.
Speaker (02:12):
That is awesome, man.
My tax lady, the first time Iused this tax lady a few years
ago, she was like, Hutch, maybeyou need to make less money if
you're paying too much taxes.
I'm like, no, I just need tofigure out how to cut my taxes.
You know?
So yeah.
Great point.
If we can figure out how to cutthe logic expense that then it'd
be great.
So you earn more, keep more now.
You have started your career instructural engineering, and
somehow became the nationleading cross segregation.
(02:34):
Can you walk us through thejourney, how did an engineering
background set to you?
Yeah.
Set you up to understand,building, components and
depreciation and the ways thatmost tax professionals simply
can't.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah.
years ago, I went to school,went to Purdue University.
I studied structuralengineering, thought I was
gonna, work on designing highrise buildings and all types of,
interesting structures.
But I kind of realized thatwasn't for me.
Sometime when I was in college,I ended up, graduating with a
structural engineering degree,worked for a company called
(03:08):
Arthur Anderson, which.
At the time was maybe one of thebiggest, accounting firms in the
world.
Okay.
And, so from there, and by theway, so they were hiring
engineers outta college, to docost segregation studies.
And back then there wasn't.
There wasn't a lot of smallerfirms that were helping, smaller
(03:29):
investors do these studies.
So I was working on projects forcasinos and that, in Las Vegas,
huge pharmaceutical companieswith massive, manufacturing
plants and really, I waslearning how to do this type of
work and at the time I neverrealized, and, as a young
(03:49):
professional.
That there was a world outsideof where I was currently
working, that where peopleneeded that service.
And, shortly after, about fiveyears after, I started there, I
came out to California, startedTBKG.
At the time if you were toGoogle cost segregation, there
was, a handful of companies thatpopped up.
(04:11):
We were one of them.
And, now you Google costsegregation.
There's thousands of, of hits.
and really we, we were one ofthe first companies to get into
this space, and, we kind of rodethe wave as more and more.
Investors in the mid to smallermarket, realized that these
benefits were, were real.
You know, a lot of people backthen thought it was too good to
(04:33):
be true,
Speaker (04:33):
right?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Demand grew.
It's become super common now.
One of the most commonly usedtap strategies for people in
real estate.
So that's kind of how I gothere.
Speaker (04:43):
Yeah.
One of the things that I've beenseeing, man, and maybe it's just
my exposure as well, and mycircle has been changing or
modifying a little bit, but Isee that there are a lot of
Americans that they dounderstand.
I mean, they do feel a patrioticduty to pay taxes, and there's
some value to that, right?
You should pay the taxes thatyou're obligated to.
To pay.
However, in some cases we payway too much.
(05:06):
You know, so a situation likethese, and I would like for you
to break down, especially for apassive real estate investor,
right?
Mostly our limited partners.
what is cost segregation and whyis it one of the most powerful
tax tools for real estateinvestors?
Can you break it down simple towhere they can understand it?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah.
So cost Segs a way for realestate investors to pay less in
tax by speeding up how fastthey're gonna write off parts of
their building.
Okay.
Right.
So normally a building iswritten off over 27 and or 39
years, depending on the type ofreal estate, but not everything
(05:45):
inside the building.
Depreciates that fast.
And so there's things like.
Cabinetry, vinyl flooring,asphalt paving outside of the
building.
These things can be written offmuch quicker, and so a cost
segregation study.
Breaks the property into all itsdifferent pieces and you get to
(06:08):
write off a lot of those piecesin year one, right?
Because the, OBB tax billbrought back what's called a
hundred percent bonusdepreciation.
And so a lot of these thingsinside the, inside the
properties are written off rightaway instead of that 39 years.
And so you get a really big.
(06:28):
Tax deduction right away insteadof over decades.
And, and just to give you somecontext, let's say you bought it
in an office building for$3.9million, okay?
Right.
Let's assume that there's noland value that's associated
with that because step one, whenyou buy a piece of real estate
(06:51):
is you have to separate the landvalue from the building value.
Okay?
The land value you cannotappreciate, okay?
But whatever, the value is ofthe building that you purchase,
is written off, depreciated over39 years for an office building.
So in that case normally youwould get to write off$100,000
(07:13):
each year for 39 years, right?
To get to that 3.9 million.
But with the costing study, wemight find up to 25%.
Of that building value can bewritten off in year one.
So now we're talking about$975,000 that can be written off
(07:34):
all in the first year.
And so that delta, thatdifference between if you don't
do cost seg you get a$100,000reduction if you do cost Seg
$975,000 deduction.
When you're a passive realestate investor with a lot of
investments that eventually arestarting to spit off, taxable
(07:55):
income,
Speaker (07:56):
right?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Here's a strategy to essentially wipe out any of that
taxable income.
So you can still get the cashflow, but you don't have to pay
the tax.
Speaker (08:07):
Yeah, that's a great breakdown, man.
Now, look, a lot of ourinvestors, they love doing what
they do, meaning they have theirown W2 job.
They're running their ownbusiness, all the good stuff,
right?
And I see a lot of my fellowpartners, they, driving, we're
gonna do this great costsegregation studies, gonna save
you a bunch of their, a bunch oftaxes on your income, all that
good stuff, right?
(08:27):
I wanna ask you this question aminute, directly relate to those
W2 jobs.
Does cost segregation reallybenefit passive investor who
have a full-time job?
or is it only for real estateprofessionals?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, no, great question.
Now, the answer of course is, itdepends, right?
Depends.
But in, in general, if you're apassive investor and maybe
you're buying your firstproperty, you're making your
first passive investment.
It may not benefit you that muchif the sponsor does a cost
segregation study.
(09:00):
Okay?
And the way the tax rules workis that normally, in most cases,
if you have a W2 job whereyou're working 2000 hours a
year, maybe you're a softwareengineer, and maybe you're
making half a million dollars,okay?
(09:20):
If you go out and buy a piece ofreal estate and you do a tic
study, you're creating all theselosses, these depreciation
losses.
Well, in that scenario, you'renot allowed to use those real
estate losses against the incomethat you make from your normal
(09:41):
day job.
Okay?
You gotta keep it separate.
And if you're an active realestate professional, right?
Let's say that you're, you don'thave a day job, and all you do
is you invest in real estate andmaybe you have 10 investments.
Okay?
Some of those investments, are,you've held them for a long
(10:01):
time.
either the rents have gone up,you're making a lot of money,
there's cash flow.
You have to pay tax on that cashflow, okay?
if you go out and buy a newbuilding this year and you
create all these depreciationlosses, like we talked about
earlier, you can offset.
any of that income, that taxableincome.
(10:22):
So as a real estate professionalin the tax code, cost
segregation's a huge taxstrategy that, allows you to
manage income tax.
As a passive investor, it's alot more limited because of what
I talked about.
You can't use those deductionagain against your, the income
you're making from your day job.
(10:42):
but where it does help is ifyou're.
making several investments,right?
So, like I said, that firstinvestment, probably you're
gonna have enough depreciationwithout the cost segregation
study, to wipe out income ormaybe you do a cost segregation
study and it's gonna wipe outthe income.
(11:04):
That the, that investment isproviding.
Yeah, to answer your question,the cost seg study is going to
at least make the income you'regetting, the cashflow you're
getting from that, from theinvestment, tax free, and any
other investments that you havethat are spitting off cash flow,
that are real estate related canbe offset by that depreciation
(11:26):
as well.
Speaker (11:27):
Man, I appreciate you breaking that down.
Now, yeah, there are someconfusion out there about how
that those, passive loss can beused.
Now I wanna go into someadvanced tax strategy, man.
You've testified before the IRSand you've seen the good, the
bad, and the ugly, what wouldyou say are three, advanced
strategy that most real estateinvestor never hear about, but
(11:50):
should absolutely know?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
There's one, strategy, couple strategies.
Okay.
Let me talk about one that Ithink, is my favorite.
Okay?
And that is if, let's say youare somebody that's a software
engineer, go back to my example.
Okay?
And, you're making half amillion dollars.
And you go buy a piece of realestate.
Like I said before, you can'tuse those deductions, because
(12:17):
you're not a real estateprofessional, right?
However, now, if your spouse,let's say, is a real estate
professional for tax purposes,and you file a joint tax return,
now all of a sudden you areallowed to use the deductions
from that real estate that youpurchased against.
(12:38):
The income you're making at yourW2 job.
Okay?
So that opens up a whole otherworld of possibilities in terms
of being able to manage andshelter your taxable income.
Now, there are some caveats tothat strategy, okay?
Okay.
One.
Your spouse, in order to meetthe definition of a real estate
(13:00):
professional for tax purposes,they have to spend 750 hours,
doing real estate activities.
And there's okay.
Kind of a list of activitiesthat qualify and, those
activities generally include,managing your properties.
Okay.
If you buy a few, let's saysingle family home rentals,
(13:22):
right?
I have clients that have boughtsingle family homes.
They buy enough of'em, the wifeor the husband, whoever the
spouse is that has the time tobe a real estate professional,
manages those properties.
They meet the hoursrequirements.
Okay?
And then at that point, theycan.
Go out and buy, be an LP in alot of deals, right?
(13:46):
Once they meet that criteria.
They can start netting all theirreal estate activities together.
So they could be an LP in dealsonce the spouse meets that
definition.
they don't have to deal with thestress of owning more properties
and managing more properties.
And, at that point then, it's,tax planning becomes, there's a
(14:06):
lot more options at that point.
Speaker (14:09):
Yeah.
that is awesome.
Any
Speaker 2 (14:10):
questions on that one?
Speaker (14:11):
No, those are pretty solid, man.
And nothing changed with themost recent, upgrade to bonus
depreciation.
I know it was fading out and,it's now back up to 100%.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah, that's right.
Bonus depreciation.
it's come and gone, a handful oftimes over the last 25 years,
right?
And, this time it, they actuallymade it permanent.
And so if you're buying abuilding after January 20th of
this year, 2025, you, yeah, youget to claim, a year one write
(14:43):
off on anything that meets thatbonus depreciation criteria,
which is all those things in theSIG study we identified.
Speaker (14:51):
Yeah, that made too much sense, man.
I like that.
can you touch a little bit on,on tax saving as it applies to
maybe energy, energy taxincentive, or maybe a
multifamily developer or both?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, sure.
So there's a handful of energytax incentives in the code.
One of'em.
it's under code section 1 79,capital D.
Okay.
it's worth up to$5 per squarefoot in a deduction for the
building if the building isenergy efficient.
(15:24):
And, and yeah, if you meet thatcriteria, let's say you have a
hundred thousand square footbuilding.
There's a half a million dollardeduction that's available.
And so there's a certificationprocess that the owners have to
go through.
There's also an incentive outthere under code section 45 L
and that one is an energy creditfor multifamily developers.
(15:47):
It has to be typically has to bea new, newly built.
The ground up construction, butit's worth up to$5,000 per unit.
So let's say you have a 20 unitbuilding, you're building, times
five, that could be a hundredthousand dollars of tax credits,
that maybe you didn't know wasavailable.
(16:07):
And again, that has to be,energy efficient as well.
Speaker (16:10):
Okay.
What really cons constitutesenergy efficient?
'cause for the average mine,we're thinking about just maybe
just solar panels on theproperty.
Right.
What constitutes energyefficient to rate?
45 L and 175.
Yeah.
1 79 D
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Right.
And they of course.
Nothing simple in our tax code.
So both the criteria for both ofthose incentives are different,
but it really comes down to theenergy efficiency of how it was
constructed.
And we're not talking aboutsolar panels.
We're talking about, the type ofinsulation that's in the.
(16:48):
type of windows that wereinstalled and how efficient they
are.
Roofing, HVAC, efficiency, etcetera.
So it's things like that, gointo the criteria for those
programs.
Speaker (17:00):
Okay.
Gotcha, man.
Most of our investors that arelistening to this podcast, some
of them are passive investor inlarge deal, while some of them
they're managing their own,portfolio, right?
Of maybe small and multi-familyproperties, so res I wanna talk
a little bit about residentialcost segregation.
Your, residential costsegregation software, for
property six units and less.
Who's it for?
(17:21):
Who's the tool for?
how does it work and how does ithelp small investors, unlock tax
savings without.
Paying thousands of dollars.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you're referring to ouronline, software that allows,
investors to do their own costsegregation studies without
hiring a third party, and it'sfor smaller properties.
And we actually relaunched this.
Okay.
It's, the tool is called costsegregation.com.
Okay.
That's the name of the tool andthat's, that's the website as
(17:51):
well.
And it works for, allresidential rental properties
and as well as commercialproperties.
Okay?
Okay.
As long as the tax basis of theproperty, the amount you get to
depreciate is less than$1.5million million.
Okay.
And so you go on there.
Let's say you bought a six unit.
(18:13):
Multifamily building or a sevenunit building.
Let's say you paid$1.9 millionfor it and the land was worth
half a million.
So now what you get todepreciate is 1.4 million.
Okay?
So you start with that 1.4million.
You put the address in oursoftware@costssegregation.com.
(18:35):
We'll pull in all the publiclyavailable information about it.
you go ahead and you, finish thequestionnaire.
It takes about 15 minutes.
Okay.
So it's not, it's very easy touse.
Yeah.
And once you're done, you caninvite your tax preparer to
verify that the tax informationis correct, so they can log in
(18:59):
and see that the basis you usedis correct.
Once you're done, you, finishthe report and you'll get,
probably about a 25, 30 pagecost segregation analysis on
your property that you canprovide your tax preparer, and
get all the same benefits thatwe're talking about.
Normally if you're going out andhiring a cost segregation expert
(19:21):
to look at, a building, let'ssay it's a.
I don't know, a hundred units.
Multi-family building.
Yeah.
You might be paying anywherefrom, seven to$10,000, for an
engineer to go out, inspect thatbuilding and provide that
detailed report.
And now, for these smallerproperties, the pricing starts
at$500, so it really makessense.
(19:45):
For the smaller properties.
And again, it's not limited toresidential.
You can do it on commercialproperties as well.
Speaker (19:53):
Okay.
That is awesome, man.
I appreciate you breaking thatdown for us, man.
so you, Gian you've reviewedthousands of properties and
you've talked to thousands ofCPA, What are some of those top
mistake that you've seeninvestor make when it comes to
depreciation and tax strategies?
You know what I mean?
in our world, we've seen a lotof folks where they're doing
cost segregation too late, noplanning before closing, using
(20:16):
none specialized, CPA, missingcatch up depreciation and
ignoring, energy, credit, bunchof those things.
Right.
What are some of those thingsthat you're seeing, at your
level?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Well, the biggest mistake,
Speaker (20:27):
And feel free to expand on some of those we just talked
about as well.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah, yeah.
probably the biggest mistake,especially smaller real estate
investors that are buildingtheir portfolio, the biggest
mistake is using a tax preparerthat just isn't as familiar with
real estate.
Okay.
And, a lot of the mistakes, arehappening.
(20:51):
With the person preparing thetax return.
Whether it's the tax prepared,never advised, Hey, you could do
a cost segregation study here.
and of course they don't do thecost study.
They might be paying more taxthan they should.
Okay.
But the other mistakes that Ithink I find are.
Missing the bonus depreciation,whether, somebody's reporting
(21:14):
things on the tax return, thatis eligible for bonus
depreciation.
So maybe let's say they, put anew parking lot in, or maybe
they redo the landscaping andthey put it on the depreciation
schedule correctly, but theyforget to take the bonus
depreciation.
And so they're Effectivelywriting it off over a much
longer period, and they'repaying more tax than they need
(21:36):
to when they report that.
Sometimes there's mistakes when10 31 exchanges are involved
with properties, the rules get alittle nuanced.
Again, if your tax preparer isnot super focused on real
estate, they might overlook someof the issues.
That kind of happened with 10 31exchanges and, what other
(22:00):
issues?
Let me think here.
I'm drawing a blank on issuesthat, I might see, but,
something come to mind.
I'll come back to that.
Speaker (22:15):
Yeah.
I think one of, one of thebiggest issues though is,
working with, tax preparers ortax advisor who's not very savvy
on real estate.
And some of those opportunitiesthat why people want to love to
invest in real estate.
Which, it's the tax benefit oneof the biggest ones.
So if a CPA does not understandthat, then chancellor, we're
gonna lose that on a lot of,savings on a month, on a yearly
basis, so, Gian, you'veco-founded, a company that has
(22:38):
become a national leading costsegregation.
I wanna talk this is your timeto boast a little bit.
What is KBKG, doing differently,especially for passive investor
who may not know how to evaluatecost segregation providers?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah, so I, I think what separates us is our talent.
I mentioned that we're one ofthe first cost segregation
companies.
that was created at this leveloutside of the big four CPA
firms.
I think our.
Probably the biggestdifferentiator amongst the
talent we have is that we havemore certified cost segregation
(23:14):
professionals than any othercompany in the country.
Okay?
And so we have a really largepractice, the most certified
cost segregation profess.
We have brick and mortar officesacross the country and places
like New York City, Atlanta,Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Los
(23:34):
Angeles, and so we can reallyget to all the properties very
easily.
We work with thousands of CPAfirms.
And, and we own the domain costsegregation.com.
That's because we've been aroundlonger than most firms.
That's where we're housing ouronline software tool.
But, outside of our onlinesoftware tool, we do, the full
(23:56):
service cost segregationstudies, and that our website is
kbkg.com.
Speaker (24:01):
Okay.
Thank you so much for thatbrother, man.
I wanna dive into the focusround, which is just our
acronym.
Focus is pretty much like alightning round.
Short question, long answer orshort questions, short answer,
in short, What do you do forfun?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Oh geez.
live here in Los Angeles.
On the weekends I like to gosurfing.
I also do Brazilian jiujitsu,just to keep myself in shape.
Speaker (24:25):
Yeah, that is awesome, man.
What opportunity was a gamechanger for you?
Trajectory
Speaker 2 (24:30):
For our company?
Speaker (24:32):
For your company, or for yourself?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
I definitely, founding KBKG definitely
changed, the course of my life.
It's been 25 years.
Wow.
and we've diversified into otherkind of areas of tax.
Founding this software welaunched in 2016 been a huge
success.
And, yeah.
So those two are game changersfor me.
Speaker (24:55):
What is your number one communication tip for exploring
complex ideas?
Simply,
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Ooh.
Can I say chat, GPT?
Speaker (25:06):
Um, I mean, it could be ai.
Yeah, absolutely, man.
Because when you think about agrand scheme of things, man,
there's so much within our brainhousing group that we want to
say that we are not wise enoughto figure out how to say it
effectively yet.
We know what that right looklike, right?
We can put in.
Prompt based on our ownintuition, our own creative
thinking and our own experiencethat we can get the AI to say it
(25:30):
in a way to where it's moreacceptable in today's society,
or, easier to understand or lesscomplex, so on and so forth.
Yeah, I would agree.
So what's something you wishinvestors understood earlier
about taxes?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I wish I kind of learned this earlier in my
career, right?
That it's never too early tostart investing and, starting
that process as early aspossible.
I think there's a huge advantageto that because of the tax
advantages.
it wasn't until.
Later in my career when I builtup much more in, in savings that
(26:13):
I started investing in realestate.
Yeah.
and I wish I was an LP in dealsa lot earlier, because, in after
the great financial crisis.
It was a few years after thatwhen real estate kind of came
out of that.
And we know from 2011, to 2023real estate was just on a tear.
(26:35):
And, and I know that there wereopportunities presented to me,
but I didn't invest in those andI just kind of wish that I did
earlier.
Speaker (26:43):
Yeah, no, I got you.
yeah, you usually hear the term,it's never too late to do a
thing.
Right.
I like how you put it.
It's, it is never too early, toget it to invested, because we.
What, if, what if you lived tobe, 200 years old?
you know what I mean?
You would've wished you hadstarted early and everything
would've compounded.
And the quality of living you'vebeen created when you were 150
(27:04):
years old, would've beenamazing.
But also, the quality of livingThat our next generation could
be benefiting from us startingearlier, Is really important
because my commanding officer,one of the things you talk
about, it says that if you wantto leave a great legacy, you
have to be a great ancestor,right?
And not very often do I putmyself in ancestry in the same
(27:26):
sentence.
When you think about it, thethings that we do today, the
things that we set in motionwith the right strategy.
And the right systems that ourfuture ben generation can
benefit, from it, from whatwe've created, especially in the
financial realm.
So, Gian, I wanna ask you thislast question, brother.
in a focus round, what doessuccess mean to you after 25
(27:47):
years in your field?
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, to me it means, I can relax and enjoy life.
okay.
That, like a lot of yourlisteners are striving to do, to
get into investments that arekicking off income that, allow
you to enjoy life without,having to sell your time.
Speaker (28:08):
Yeah.
I got you.
That is awesome.
That's awesome.
Thank you so much, Gian.
Now Gian, This was a fullmasterclass and for the
listeners, look, ton ofinformation there, whether you
are a passive investor or youare an active real estate
investor now, Gian.
If our listeners want to get intouch with you, how do they go
(28:30):
about doing that?
And I would love for them to, ifthey also want to get access to
your cost segregation platformas well too.
How do they go about doing that?
Speaker 2 (28:37):
yeah, yeah.
So, like I said.
Cost segregation.com is thesoftware platform, okay.
In the website.
And, and for your listeners, forfirst time users, they're gonna
get a 10% discount if they usethis code that I'm gonna say
it's, and it's all in caps.
It's MREE code, all in caps.
(28:59):
That's M-R-E-E-C-O-D-E.
all in caps and they'll get a10%, discount.
yeah, you can find me, onLinkedIn.
Gian Pazzia, I'm the only onethat exists in the entire world.
That's awesome.
And, yeah, feel free to reachout, connect with me, go to our
website and find me.
Speaker (29:19):
That's awesome, man.
Listen this episode, you shouldbookmark, replay, and share this
episode.
You know what Gian gave us todaywas exact blueprint that most
investor ignore until it's waytoo late.
He said it.
It's never too early to startinvesting.
You know, taxes aren't just anobligation.
(29:39):
They can be your weapon ofchoice towards, or your tactics
of choice to towards your,financial strategy.
Now, if you use the rightstrategy, you get to keep your
cash, you get to buy more doors,and ultimately you get to own
more of America.
So if this episode open youreyes, leave us an honest review
(30:02):
and if we have earned it.
I would ask that you leave afive star rating as well, you
know, so until next time, I'mHutch Marine investor.
Keep exploring, keep buildingand keep on the journey to own
more of America.
I'm a Hutch Marine investor.
Out.
Wah gwan all you Multifamily enthusiast.
Welcome to another episode ofthe Multifamily Real Estate
Experiment Podcast, where webreak down mindset mechanics,
tax strategies, and how to helpyou the passive investor own
more of America.
Today we're gonna ask thequestion.
How can passive investor usecost segregation to reduce
taxes, increase cash flow, andbuild real estate wealth faster?
(00:25):
Today's guest, is a trueheavyweight in the world of tax
strategy and accelerateddepreciation.
See, Gian Pazzia is the author,speaker, a structural engineer
turned tax strategist, expert,and one of the nation's top
authorities in call segregation.
He's the co-founder of KBKG,which is a national leader in
(00:49):
cost segregation study, and Ithas helped his clients save over
$10 billion in taxes since 1999see Gian, and he has served as a
president of the AmericanSociety of Cost Segregation
Professionals.
He has provided expert witness.
His testimony to the IRS andhe's been published in over 20
times in major tax journals.
(01:11):
Brother, this is a bio that youdon't see quite often, man.
Thank you for joining us on thispodcast episode.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, lifetime.
Really happy to be here, Hutch.
Thank you for that greatintroduction.
Speaker (01:22):
Man, it's all you brother.
So man, I like to ask my guestsbefore we get into the vault of
tax strategy, do you have afavorite quote or mantra or
principle that guides how youthink about real estate taxes or
helping investor build wealth?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
A guiding principle.
if I had a guiding principle, itwould be, make sure you.
Look at your biggest expenseevery year, and that's gonna be
your taxes.
And, if you can get your biggestexpense down, even just a little
bit, it usually is going to,make a big difference, for your
(02:01):
real estate portfolio.
So if you can lower that taxbill, not pay until Sam reinvest
that money into real estate.
That's what the sophisticatedreal estate investors have been
doing, in this country foryears.
Speaker (02:12):
That is awesome, man.
My tax lady, the first time Iused this tax lady a few years
ago, she was like, Hutch, maybeyou need to make less money if
you're paying too much taxes.
I'm like, no, I just need tofigure out how to cut my taxes.
You know?
So yeah.
Great point.
If we can figure out how to cutthe logic expense that then it'd
be great.
So you earn more, keep more now.
You have started your career instructural engineering, and
somehow became the nationleading cross segregation.
(02:34):
Can you walk us through thejourney, how did an engineering
background set to you?
Yeah.
Set you up to understand,building, components and
depreciation and the ways thatmost tax professionals simply
can't.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah.
years ago, I went to school,went to Purdue University.
I studied structuralengineering, thought I was
gonna, work on designing highrise buildings and all types of,
interesting structures.
But I kind of realized thatwasn't for me.
Sometime when I was in college,I ended up, graduating with a
structural engineering degree,worked for a company called
(03:08):
Arthur Anderson, which.
At the time was maybe one of thebiggest, accounting firms in the
world.
Okay.
And, so from there, and by theway, so they were hiring
engineers outta college, to docost segregation studies.
And back then there wasn't.
There wasn't a lot of smallerfirms that were helping, smaller
(03:29):
investors do these studies.
So I was working on projects forcasinos and that, in Las Vegas,
huge pharmaceutical companieswith massive, manufacturing
plants and really, I waslearning how to do this type of
work and at the time I neverrealized, and, as a young
(03:49):
professional.
That there was a world outsideof where I was currently
working, that where peopleneeded that service.
And, shortly after, about fiveyears after, I started there, I
came out to California, startedTBKG.
At the time if you were toGoogle cost segregation, there
was, a handful of companies thatpopped up.
(04:11):
We were one of them.
And, now you Google costsegregation.
There's thousands of, of hits.
and really we, we were one ofthe first companies to get into
this space, and, we kind of rodethe wave as more and more.
Investors in the mid to smallermarket, realized that these
benefits were, were real.
You know, a lot of people backthen thought it was too good to
(04:33):
be true,
Speaker (04:33):
right?
Speaker 2 (04:34):
Demand grew.
It's become super common now.
One of the most commonly usedtap strategies for people in
real estate.
So that's kind of how I gothere.
Speaker (04:43):
Yeah.
One of the things that I've beenseeing, man, and maybe it's just
my exposure as well, and mycircle has been changing or
modifying a little bit, but Isee that there are a lot of
Americans that they dounderstand.
I mean, they do feel a patrioticduty to pay taxes, and there's
some value to that, right?
You should pay the taxes thatyou're obligated to.
To pay.
However, in some cases we payway too much.
(05:06):
You know, so a situation likethese, and I would like for you
to break down, especially for apassive real estate investor,
right?
Mostly our limited partners.
what is cost segregation and whyis it one of the most powerful
tax tools for real estateinvestors?
Can you break it down simple towhere they can understand it?
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Yeah.
So cost Segs a way for realestate investors to pay less in
tax by speeding up how fastthey're gonna write off parts of
their building.
Okay.
Right.
So normally a building iswritten off over 27 and or 39
years, depending on the type ofreal estate, but not everything
(05:45):
inside the building.
Depreciates that fast.
And so there's things like.
Cabinetry, vinyl flooring,asphalt paving outside of the
building.
These things can be written offmuch quicker, and so a cost
segregation study.
Breaks the property into all itsdifferent pieces and you get to
(06:08):
write off a lot of those piecesin year one, right?
Because the, OBB tax billbrought back what's called a
hundred percent bonusdepreciation.
And so a lot of these thingsinside the, inside the
properties are written off rightaway instead of that 39 years.
And so you get a really big.
(06:28):
Tax deduction right away insteadof over decades.
And, and just to give you somecontext, let's say you bought it
in an office building for$3.9million, okay?
Right.
Let's assume that there's noland value that's associated
with that because step one, whenyou buy a piece of real estate
(06:51):
is you have to separate the landvalue from the building value.
Okay?
The land value you cannotappreciate, okay?
But whatever, the value is ofthe building that you purchase,
is written off, depreciated over39 years for an office building.
So in that case normally youwould get to write off$100,000
(07:13):
each year for 39 years, right?
To get to that 3.9 million.
But with the costing study, wemight find up to 25%.
Of that building value can bewritten off in year one.
So now we're talking about$975,000 that can be written off
(07:34):
all in the first year.
And so that delta, thatdifference between if you don't
do cost seg you get a$100,000reduction if you do cost Seg
$975,000 deduction.
When you're a passive realestate investor with a lot of
investments that eventually arestarting to spit off, taxable
(07:55):
income,
Speaker (07:56):
right?
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Here's a strategy to essentially wipe out any of that
taxable income.
So you can still get the cashflow, but you don't have to pay
the tax.
Speaker (08:07):
Yeah, that's a great breakdown, man.
Now, look, a lot of ourinvestors, they love doing what
they do, meaning they have theirown W2 job.
They're running their ownbusiness, all the good stuff,
right?
And I see a lot of my fellowpartners, they, driving, we're
gonna do this great costsegregation studies, gonna save
you a bunch of their, a bunch oftaxes on your income, all that
good stuff, right?
(08:27):
I wanna ask you this question aminute, directly relate to those
W2 jobs.
Does cost segregation reallybenefit passive investor who
have a full-time job?
or is it only for real estateprofessionals?
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, no, great question.
Now, the answer of course is, itdepends, right?
Depends.
But in, in general, if you're apassive investor and maybe
you're buying your firstproperty, you're making your
first passive investment.
It may not benefit you that muchif the sponsor does a cost
segregation study.
(09:00):
Okay?
And the way the tax rules workis that normally, in most cases,
if you have a W2 job whereyou're working 2000 hours a
year, maybe you're a softwareengineer, and maybe you're
making half a million dollars,okay?
(09:20):
If you go out and buy a piece ofreal estate and you do a tic
study, you're creating all theselosses, these depreciation
losses.
Well, in that scenario, you'renot allowed to use those real
estate losses against the incomethat you make from your normal
(09:41):
day job.
Okay?
You gotta keep it separate.
And if you're an active realestate professional, right?
Let's say that you're, you don'thave a day job, and all you do
is you invest in real estate andmaybe you have 10 investments.
Okay?
Some of those investments, are,you've held them for a long
(10:01):
time.
either the rents have gone up,you're making a lot of money,
there's cash flow.
You have to pay tax on that cashflow, okay?
if you go out and buy a newbuilding this year and you
create all these depreciationlosses, like we talked about
earlier, you can offset.
any of that income, that taxableincome.
(10:22):
So as a real estate professionalin the tax code, cost
segregation's a huge taxstrategy that, allows you to
manage income tax.
As a passive investor, it's alot more limited because of what
I talked about.
You can't use those deductionagain against your, the income
you're making from your day job.
(10:42):
but where it does help is ifyou're.
making several investments,right?
So, like I said, that firstinvestment, probably you're
gonna have enough depreciationwithout the cost segregation
study, to wipe out income ormaybe you do a cost segregation
study and it's gonna wipe outthe income.
(11:04):
That the, that investment isproviding.
Yeah, to answer your question,the cost seg study is going to
at least make the income you'regetting, the cashflow you're
getting from that, from theinvestment, tax free, and any
other investments that you havethat are spitting off cash flow,
that are real estate related canbe offset by that depreciation
(11:26):
as well.
Speaker (11:27):
Man, I appreciate you breaking that down.
Now, yeah, there are someconfusion out there about how
that those, passive loss can beused.
Now I wanna go into someadvanced tax strategy, man.
You've testified before the IRSand you've seen the good, the
bad, and the ugly, what wouldyou say are three, advanced
strategy that most real estateinvestor never hear about, but
(11:50):
should absolutely know?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
There's one, strategy, couple strategies.
Okay.
Let me talk about one that Ithink, is my favorite.
Okay?
And that is if, let's say youare somebody that's a software
engineer, go back to my example.
Okay?
And, you're making half amillion dollars.
And you go buy a piece of realestate.
Like I said before, you can'tuse those deductions, because
(12:17):
you're not a real estateprofessional, right?
However, now, if your spouse,let's say, is a real estate
professional for tax purposes,and you file a joint tax return,
now all of a sudden you areallowed to use the deductions
from that real estate that youpurchased against.
(12:38):
The income you're making at yourW2 job.
Okay?
So that opens up a whole otherworld of possibilities in terms
of being able to manage andshelter your taxable income.
Now, there are some caveats tothat strategy, okay?
Okay.
One.
Your spouse, in order to meetthe definition of a real estate
(13:00):
professional for tax purposes,they have to spend 750 hours,
doing real estate activities.
And there's okay.
Kind of a list of activitiesthat qualify and, those
activities generally include,managing your properties.
Okay.
If you buy a few, let's saysingle family home rentals,
(13:22):
right?
I have clients that have boughtsingle family homes.
They buy enough of'em, the wifeor the husband, whoever the
spouse is that has the time tobe a real estate professional,
manages those properties.
They meet the hoursrequirements.
Okay?
And then at that point, theycan.
Go out and buy, be an LP in alot of deals, right?
(13:46):
Once they meet that criteria.
They can start netting all theirreal estate activities together.
So they could be an LP in dealsonce the spouse meets that
definition.
they don't have to deal with thestress of owning more properties
and managing more properties.
And, at that point then, it's,tax planning becomes, there's a
(14:06):
lot more options at that point.
Speaker (14:09):
Yeah.
that is awesome.
Any
Speaker 2 (14:10):
questions on that one?
Speaker (14:11):
No, those are pretty solid, man.
And nothing changed with themost recent, upgrade to bonus
depreciation.
I know it was fading out and,it's now back up to 100%.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah, that's right.
Bonus depreciation.
it's come and gone, a handful oftimes over the last 25 years,
right?
And, this time it, they actuallymade it permanent.
And so if you're buying abuilding after January 20th of
this year, 2025, you, yeah, youget to claim, a year one write
(14:43):
off on anything that meets thatbonus depreciation criteria,
which is all those things in theSIG study we identified.
Speaker (14:51):
Yeah, that made too much sense, man.
I like that.
can you touch a little bit on,on tax saving as it applies to
maybe energy, energy taxincentive, or maybe a
multifamily developer or both?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, sure.
So there's a handful of energytax incentives in the code.
One of'em.
it's under code section 1 79,capital D.
Okay.
it's worth up to$5 per squarefoot in a deduction for the
building if the building isenergy efficient.
(15:24):
And, and yeah, if you meet thatcriteria, let's say you have a
hundred thousand square footbuilding.
There's a half a million dollardeduction that's available.
And so there's a certificationprocess that the owners have to
go through.
There's also an incentive outthere under code section 45 L
and that one is an energy creditfor multifamily developers.
(15:47):
It has to be typically has to bea new, newly built.
The ground up construction, butit's worth up to$5,000 per unit.
So let's say you have a 20 unitbuilding, you're building, times
five, that could be a hundredthousand dollars of tax credits,
that maybe you didn't know wasavailable.
(16:07):
And again, that has to be,energy efficient as well.
Speaker (16:10):
Okay.
What really cons constitutesenergy efficient?
'cause for the average mine,we're thinking about just maybe
just solar panels on theproperty.
Right.
What constitutes energyefficient to rate?
45 L and 175.
Yeah.
1 79 D
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Right.
And they of course.
Nothing simple in our tax code.
So both the criteria for both ofthose incentives are different,
but it really comes down to theenergy efficiency of how it was
constructed.
And we're not talking aboutsolar panels.
We're talking about, the type ofinsulation that's in the.
(16:48):
type of windows that wereinstalled and how efficient they
are.
Roofing, HVAC, efficiency, etcetera.
So it's things like that, gointo the criteria for those
programs.
Speaker (17:00):
Okay.
Gotcha, man.
Most of our investors that arelistening to this podcast, some
of them are passive investor inlarge deal, while some of them
they're managing their own,portfolio, right?
Of maybe small and multi-familyproperties, so res I wanna talk
a little bit about residentialcost segregation.
Your, residential costsegregation software, for
property six units and less.
Who's it for?
(17:21):
Who's the tool for?
how does it work and how does ithelp small investors, unlock tax
savings without.
Paying thousands of dollars.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you're referring to ouronline, software that allows,
investors to do their own costsegregation studies without
hiring a third party, and it'sfor smaller properties.
And we actually relaunched this.
Okay.
It's, the tool is called costsegregation.com.
Okay.
That's the name of the tool andthat's, that's the website as
(17:51):
well.
And it works for, allresidential rental properties
and as well as commercialproperties.
Okay?
Okay.
As long as the tax basis of theproperty, the amount you get to
depreciate is less than$1.5million million.
Okay.
And so you go on there.
Let's say you bought a six unit.
(18:13):
Multifamily building or a sevenunit building.
Let's say you paid$1.9 millionfor it and the land was worth
half a million.
So now what you get todepreciate is 1.4 million.
Okay?
So you start with that 1.4million.
You put the address in oursoftware@costssegregation.com.
(18:35):
We'll pull in all the publiclyavailable information about it.
you go ahead and you, finish thequestionnaire.
It takes about 15 minutes.
Okay.
So it's not, it's very easy touse.
Yeah.
And once you're done, you caninvite your tax preparer to
verify that the tax informationis correct, so they can log in
(18:59):
and see that the basis you usedis correct.
Once you're done, you, finishthe report and you'll get,
probably about a 25, 30 pagecost segregation analysis on
your property that you canprovide your tax preparer, and
get all the same benefits thatwe're talking about.
Normally if you're going out andhiring a cost segregation expert
(19:21):
to look at, a building, let'ssay it's a.
I don't know, a hundred units.
Multi-family building.
Yeah.
You might be paying anywherefrom, seven to$10,000, for an
engineer to go out, inspect thatbuilding and provide that
detailed report.
And now, for these smallerproperties, the pricing starts
at$500, so it really makessense.
(19:45):
For the smaller properties.
And again, it's not limited toresidential.
You can do it on commercialproperties as well.
Speaker (19:53):
Okay.
That is awesome, man.
I appreciate you breaking thatdown for us, man.
so you, Gian you've reviewedthousands of properties and
you've talked to thousands ofCPA, What are some of those top
mistake that you've seeninvestor make when it comes to
depreciation and tax strategies?
You know what I mean?
in our world, we've seen a lotof folks where they're doing
cost segregation too late, noplanning before closing, using
(20:16):
none specialized, CPA, missingcatch up depreciation and
ignoring, energy, credit, bunchof those things.
Right.
What are some of those thingsthat you're seeing, at your
level?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Well, the biggest mistake,
Speaker (20:27):
And feel free to expand on some of those we just talked
about as well.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah, yeah.
probably the biggest mistake,especially smaller real estate
investors that are buildingtheir portfolio, the biggest
mistake is using a tax preparerthat just isn't as familiar with
real estate.
Okay.
And, a lot of the mistakes, arehappening.
(20:51):
With the person preparing thetax return.
Whether it's the tax prepared,never advised, Hey, you could do
a cost segregation study here.
and of course they don't do thecost study.
They might be paying more taxthan they should.
Okay.
But the other mistakes that Ithink I find are.
Missing the bonus depreciation,whether, somebody's reporting
(21:14):
things on the tax return, thatis eligible for bonus
depreciation.
So maybe let's say they, put anew parking lot in, or maybe
they redo the landscaping andthey put it on the depreciation
schedule correctly, but theyforget to take the bonus
depreciation.
And so they're Effectivelywriting it off over a much
longer period, and they'repaying more tax than they need
(21:36):
to when they report that.
Sometimes there's mistakes when10 31 exchanges are involved
with properties, the rules get alittle nuanced.
Again, if your tax preparer isnot super focused on real
estate, they might overlook someof the issues.
That kind of happened with 10 31exchanges and, what other
(22:00):
issues?
Let me think here.
I'm drawing a blank on issuesthat, I might see, but,
something come to mind.
I'll come back to that.
Speaker (22:15):
Yeah.
I think one of, one of thebiggest issues though is,
working with, tax preparers ortax advisor who's not very savvy
on real estate.
And some of those opportunitiesthat why people want to love to
invest in real estate.
Which, it's the tax benefit oneof the biggest ones.
So if a CPA does not understandthat, then chancellor, we're
gonna lose that on a lot of,savings on a month, on a yearly
basis, so, Gian, you'veco-founded, a company that has
(22:38):
become a national leading costsegregation.
I wanna talk this is your timeto boast a little bit.
What is KBKG, doing differently,especially for passive investor
who may not know how to evaluatecost segregation providers?
Speaker 2 (22:53):
Yeah, so I, I think what separates us is our talent.
I mentioned that we're one ofthe first cost segregation
companies.
that was created at this leveloutside of the big four CPA
firms.
I think our.
Probably the biggestdifferentiator amongst the
talent we have is that we havemore certified cost segregation
(23:14):
professionals than any othercompany in the country.
Okay?
And so we have a really largepractice, the most certified
cost segregation profess.
We have brick and mortar officesacross the country and places
like New York City, Atlanta,Dallas, Houston, Chicago, Los
(23:34):
Angeles, and so we can reallyget to all the properties very
easily.
We work with thousands of CPAfirms.
And, and we own the domain costsegregation.com.
That's because we've been aroundlonger than most firms.
That's where we're housing ouronline software tool.
But, outside of our onlinesoftware tool, we do, the full
(23:56):
service cost segregationstudies, and that our website is
kbkg.com.
Speaker (24:01):
Okay.
Thank you so much for thatbrother, man.
I wanna dive into the focusround, which is just our
acronym.
Focus is pretty much like alightning round.
Short question, long answer orshort questions, short answer,
in short, What do you do forfun?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Oh geez.
live here in Los Angeles.
On the weekends I like to gosurfing.
I also do Brazilian jiujitsu,just to keep myself in shape.
Speaker (24:25):
Yeah, that is awesome, man.
What opportunity was a gamechanger for you?
Trajectory
Speaker 2 (24:30):
For our company?
Speaker (24:32):
For your company, or for yourself?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
I definitely, founding KBKG definitely
changed, the course of my life.
It's been 25 years.
Wow.
and we've diversified into otherkind of areas of tax.
Founding this software welaunched in 2016 been a huge
success.
And, yeah.
So those two are game changersfor me.
Speaker (24:55):
What is your number one communication tip for exploring
complex ideas?
Simply,
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Ooh.
Can I say chat, GPT?
Speaker (25:06):
Um, I mean, it could be ai.
Yeah, absolutely, man.
Because when you think about agrand scheme of things, man,
there's so much within our brainhousing group that we want to
say that we are not wise enoughto figure out how to say it
effectively yet.
We know what that right looklike, right?
We can put in.
Prompt based on our ownintuition, our own creative
thinking and our own experiencethat we can get the AI to say it
(25:30):
in a way to where it's moreacceptable in today's society,
or, easier to understand or lesscomplex, so on and so forth.
Yeah, I would agree.
So what's something you wishinvestors understood earlier
about taxes?
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I wish I kind of learned this earlier in my
career, right?
That it's never too early tostart investing and, starting
that process as early aspossible.
I think there's a huge advantageto that because of the tax
advantages.
it wasn't until.
Later in my career when I builtup much more in, in savings that
(26:13):
I started investing in realestate.
Yeah.
and I wish I was an LP in dealsa lot earlier, because, in after
the great financial crisis.
It was a few years after thatwhen real estate kind of came
out of that.
And we know from 2011, to 2023real estate was just on a tear.
(26:35):
And, and I know that there wereopportunities presented to me,
but I didn't invest in those andI just kind of wish that I did
earlier.
Speaker (26:43):
Yeah, no, I got you.
yeah, you usually hear the term,it's never too late to do a
thing.
Right.
I like how you put it.
It's, it is never too early, toget it to invested, because we.
What, if, what if you lived tobe, 200 years old?
you know what I mean?
You would've wished you hadstarted early and everything
would've compounded.
And the quality of living you'vebeen created when you were 150
(27:04):
years old, would've beenamazing.
But also, the quality of livingThat our next generation could
be benefiting from us startingearlier, Is really important
because my commanding officer,one of the things you talk
about, it says that if you wantto leave a great legacy, you
have to be a great ancestor,right?
And not very often do I putmyself in ancestry in the same
(27:26):
sentence.
When you think about it, thethings that we do today, the
things that we set in motionwith the right strategy.
And the right systems that ourfuture ben generation can
benefit, from it, from whatwe've created, especially in the
financial realm.
So, Gian, I wanna ask you thislast question, brother.
in a focus round, what doessuccess mean to you after 25
(27:47):
years in your field?
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah, to me it means, I can relax and enjoy life.
okay.
That, like a lot of yourlisteners are striving to do, to
get into investments that arekicking off income that, allow
you to enjoy life without,having to sell your time.
Speaker (28:08):
Yeah.
I got you.
That is awesome.
That's awesome.
Thank you so much, Gian.
Now Gian, This was a fullmasterclass and for the
listeners, look, ton ofinformation there, whether you
are a passive investor or youare an active real estate
investor now, Gian.
If our listeners want to get intouch with you, how do they go
(28:30):
about doing that?
And I would love for them to, ifthey also want to get access to
your cost segregation platformas well too.
How do they go about doing that?
Speaker 2 (28:37):
yeah, yeah.
So, like I said.
Cost segregation.com is thesoftware platform, okay.
In the website.
And, and for your listeners, forfirst time users, they're gonna
get a 10% discount if they usethis code that I'm gonna say
it's, and it's all in caps.
It's MREE code, all in caps.
(28:59):
That's M-R-E-E-C-O-D-E.
all in caps and they'll get a10%, discount.
yeah, you can find me, onLinkedIn.
Gian Pazzia, I'm the only onethat exists in the entire world.
That's awesome.
And, yeah, feel free to reachout, connect with me, go to our
website and find me.
Speaker (29:19):
That's awesome, man.
Listen this episode, you shouldbookmark, replay, and share this
episode.
You know what Gian gave us todaywas exact blueprint that most
investor ignore until it's waytoo late.
He said it.
It's never too early to startinvesting.
You know, taxes aren't just anobligation.
(29:39):
They can be your weapon ofchoice towards, or your tactics
of choice to towards your,financial strategy.
Now, if you use the rightstrategy, you get to keep your
cash, you get to buy more doors,and ultimately you get to own
more of America.
So if this episode open youreyes, leave us an honest review
(30:02):
and if we have earned it.
I would ask that you leave afive star rating as well, you
know, so until next time, I'mHutch Marine investor.
Keep exploring, keep buildingand keep on the journey to own
more of America.
I'm a Hutch Marine investor.
Out.
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