September 8, 2020 • 32 mins
The 1999 murder of 13 year old Haley McHone in Lexington Kentucky by rail-riding serial killer Tommy Lynn Sells. Part 2 discusses the identification of Sells and the interview of the suspect, told by lead Homicide Detective Chris Schoonover.
Show notes can be found HERE.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you have been looking for a realistic true
crime experience, you just foundit.
Get ready for true crime withreal detectives on the Murder.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Police Podcast and every place that he went he
wreaked havoc on at least oneperson's life.
Yeah, he talked about a murderhe committed in Ohio and I kind
of stopped him.
I said we will get back to thatmurder because now there's
three that I know about and Iknow the ranger didn't bring up
three and I told him we'd getback to that because I'm
(00:31):
interested in that too.
But we need to talk about Haley.
And then we started about thedetails of Haley McCone's murder
here in Lexington, kentucky.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Warning the podcast you're about to listen to may
contain graphic descriptions ofviolent assaults, murder and
adult language.
Listener discretion is advised.
Welcome to the Murder PolicePodcast, the Murder of Haley
McCone, part 2 of 3, with yourhosts Wendy and David Lyons,
chris Schoonover and Ray the DALarson.
When did your break come?
(01:20):
How long long after somethingpresented itself?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
January in 2000.
Wow yeah, happy New Year Happy.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
New Year.
So what happened?
Tell us about this big break.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Well, again, my luck, since I'm the lone man in the
totem pole.
I had to go in the office onNew Year's Day it was your week
again, wasn't it?
It was it was, and our sergeant, mark Barnard, received a call
from Texas.
It was the Rangers.
He had previous encounters,again not by a cap, but his
networking, I'm sure.
(01:53):
The Texas Rangers called andsaid that they had arrested a
suspect and he mentioned that hewas in Kentucky and that there
was a murder in Lexington,kentucky, that he would like to
talk to us about.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Wow, yeah, it was great.
So he kind of told on himself.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yes, yes, I wouldn't say in a legal term that's
telling on yourself.
But you know he has somethingto get off his chest Right.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
So what do you do then?
Do you just start rubbing yourpalms together and say finally,
Well, it's not that easy.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So what happens is Sergeant Barnard came over to my
desk, said hey, you're going tohave to leave in four hours.
We have a flight for you.
They talked about who to send,and it can be you or Davey, or
you and Davey.
He said I'd like to just sendyou.
It's New Year's Day, and here'swhat we're worried about.
He doesn't like anybody.
That's arrogant.
(02:46):
He doesn't want anybody to comein dressed up in a suit.
Good thing you didn't send myhusband.
I don't know you like that, butjust to have a conversation
with the man Sure just to sitdown.
And the ranger said that thesuspect had already kicked one
interviewer out of the room, sohe wanted to be very clear that
whoever we send just needs tohave a conversation.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Let's walk back, because you talked about that.
They know this about him andthey've been talking to him and
he talked about wanting to talkabout a murder in Lexington.
Can you tell us what thatconversation was, that the
Rangers had with him, where thathappened, even?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Sure what had happened.
There had been a murder inTexas and the Rangers had been
assigned that murder.
And it was within 48 hours thathe talked to the Rangers and
got caught.
The Rangers did a fantastic jobin Texas.
They put him in the back of thecar from his arrest.
They actually caught him on theway to an attorney's house with
(03:41):
a weapon.
They only made assumptions thathe was going to kill that
attorney, but they caught him inthe car at that point.
They only made assumptions thathe was going to kill that
attorney, but they caught him inthe car.
At that point they put him inthe back of the Ranger car and
was taking him to the Del RioCounty Jail.
At that point he said I supposeI know what this is for.
He thought it was aboutLexington when in fact the
Rangers were charging him withmurder in Texas.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
What was that story of that murder?
Do you have any details aboutthe one they picked him up on?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I do, I do, and it's a sad story.
There were two girls that werestaying overnight with each
other in a trailer park and the13-year-old Katie Harris had
Crystal Sayers over at her houseovernight in their trailer.
Crystal's parents had to gomake a trip.
(04:27):
Her father was looking for ajob in another state, so Crystal
was staying with Katie.
During the middle of the night,tommy Lynn Sells climbed in the
rear window of the trailer andcovered Katie's mouth and sliced
her throat and sexuallyassaulted her.
Crystal Sayers was laying inthe top bunk at the time this
(04:51):
occurred and she woke up out ofa dead sleep, saw Tommy Lynn
Sells slice Katie's throat, soshe was very quiet and closed
her eyes and she said I don'tthink he can see me if I can't
see him right, just like a youngchild would when they're afraid
.
Well, when Tommy Lynn Sells wasdone murdering Katie Harris, he
(05:14):
noticed Krista Sells or, excuseme, krista Searles and went up
to the top bunk, reached hishand up, covered her mouth and
sliced her throat.
She played dead because she wasbleeding and he crawled back
out the window as he was leaving.
She waited and laid there asshe was bleeding.
(05:36):
She crawled out of the front ofthe trailer and was yelling for
the rest of the family membersand she thought they were all
dead.
She went a quarter mile.
Of course, in Texas yourneighbors are far apart.
She went a quarter of a miledown to the next house to an
older couple and knocked on thedoor.
The older gentleman noticedthat she was covered in blood
(05:58):
and let her in and she couldn'teven speak.
She was so injured that he gother.
She was motioning for a penciland she wrote the family's last
name and then she wrote dead asthey were calling 9-1-1 for her.
So this 10 year old girl beingso brave wow was worried about
the other family.
(06:19):
It's pretty amazing wow she wasrushed to the hospital, and then
that's where the Rangers gotinvolved in their investigation.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
And she survived that right.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
She did Next day, 24 hours later, she did a composite
and identified Tommy Lynn Sellsas the suspect that murdered
Katie Harris.
How did the Rangers catch Tommy?
Lynn Sells.
Katie Harris's father, tommylynn, sells at a car dealership
(06:49):
and they had gotten an argumentand they suspected that tommy
had followed uh, mr harris homeand saw that the young girls
were there so his intention allalong was to come back to the
girls yes so how ironic thatthis happened with 13-year-old
Haley and now we have another13-year-old and a 10-year-old
all female.
(07:10):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
So he makes this utterance in the back of this
car.
I guess, when these—.
How did they catch him?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
From the composite and then taking it to Mr Harris
and Mr Harris said that looksjust like this gentleman.
So when they stopped him theyhad enough to arrest him on the
weapon and going to thisattorney's home because he was
angry with the attorney.
And later on, when we talkabout time and land cells,
you'll see that he has his ownrules for society.
So at that point they got himin the car and that's why he
(07:43):
mentioned Lexington, not knowingthat they had him in the car
and that's why he mentionedLexington, not knowing that they
had him.
On the murder and the rangerafter meeting him he was great
with Tommy Lynn Sells.
He got him to talk about themurder in Texas and he confessed
to that ranger about the murderof Katie Harris.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
When you talk about the ranger being great with
Tommy, go into detail.
What do you mean by that?
And is that something that's ago when you're with somebody?
How do you, how do you getgreat with a bad guy like that?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
yeah, that's a great question.
Thanks, david.
Um, what happens is you have tobuild rapport in a short period
of time, if, if you can believethat.
So you know, this man has donethe worst thing in society, so
now you're going to have tobefriend this person.
So calling them by first nameis a great start, and when he
called us he even said Tommy,and we're going.
(08:30):
Tommy, who he goes?
Oh, tommy Lincels.
We just arrested him for amurder.
Tommy wants to talk to somebody.
Well, the ranger used his firstname.
You get him a cup of coffee,anything they want.
If they smoke cigarettes, youget them a cigarette and you
approach them about the issuesthat you want to talk to them
about.
You approach it like it's nobig deal.
(08:50):
You minimize their role inanything they've ever done and
then you start to empathize withthem.
Hey, I understand you had anargument with a gentleman
earlier, and so we have seenthat there's been a disruption
in his house.
I'd like to talk to you aboutthat.
Can you tell me anything thatyou know?
And so you let them.
(09:11):
What David and I and a bunch ofthe other homicide detectives
used to say you keep themtalking and you get a great lie
is better than no one talking atall.
So if you can start themtalking and even lying to you no
one talking at all so if youcan start them talking and even
lying to you, then you're off toa really good start.
And here's a psychologicalthing that once you get a person
with that personality of timeand themselves and you'll know
(09:33):
that personality right off theyalways want to tell you a story
and how wonderful it is and thethings that they have done is
not their fault, and then youcan start using what they tell
you against them.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Wow, so you get the call from this ranger.
And were you just blown away?
Were you just?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
thinking here we are some eight months later.
Yes, I was a little excited buta little nervous too, because
if you've ever been to Del Rio,it's in East Jesus, so it's way
out there.
So you land in San Antonio, butyou have to drive almost
through the tip of Mexico andthen back up into a corner of
Texas.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
What kind?
Speaker 4 (10:11):
of preparation did you do once you got there
talking to the Texas Rangers?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Well, prior to that, mark Barner, sergeant Barner and
I talked.
I went and bought a cooler onceI landed there because I want
his DNA right and I'm going tohave to fly back with it.
So I want to get the correctequipment to keep the things
cold, get the suave and keepthem secure.
So a cooler is like a carry-onto me, so that's what I'm going
to bring back with me if I canget his DNA.
(10:40):
So at that point I call theranger, rented the best car I
could Flat, texas, fastconvertible.
No, I'm kidding, got to getthere Right.
So I called the ranger and Iasked what kind of personality
he had.
(11:00):
I told the ranger what I waswearing, because when I flew I
wore a button-up shirt, whiteshirt, a tie and just dockers.
And he said well, you mightwant to change.
Come in in just a polo shirtand some jeans, he said.
And he already kicked one out.
So here's why he kicked him out.
And so he said just don't dothat mistake.
(11:21):
Why did he kick the other?
guy out.
The other interviewer came inaccusatory right off the
beginning that he already hadenough evidence to lock him up
and that's not going to workwith Tommy Lynn Sells.
So from that point forward Ijust kind of went over my notes
at a road stop rest of HaleyMcCone's case and details that I
(11:43):
knew only he would know, andwalked up to the jail and the
sheriff let me in and the TexasRanger introduced himself.
He said I'm not going to goback there with you because he
just told me about a murder andI don't want to involve my
rapport with your rapport.
We'll set you up in a supplycloset.
That's the only place they hadfor me to interview Tommy Lynn
(12:05):
Sells and they used a VHSrecorder.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Wow.
Well, I have to ask when youwere on that plane and driving
in your little fast car down toDel Rio, were you excited?
Were you nervous?
Were you just thinking oh myGod, I could vomit, I'm so
nervous, or were you just likeI'm excited we finally got?
Speaker 2 (12:26):
this part of the job believe it or not is not
testifying in the court.
My favorite part isinterviewing, getting
information and trying to getthe admission or confession of
suspects.
I love doing that, so I wasexcited.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
You were in your element.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
So you walk into your little supply room, you, I
guess, push aside your paperclips and binder clips.
And was Tommy in there, or didthey bring him to you?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
They brought him to me.
So I had changed in the car,put my jeans on and a polo shirt
, didn't tuck it in.
I asked all the questions Areyou allowed to smoke in here?
And of course it's a supplyroom with paper towels, toilet
paper, cleaner.
And they look at me like, well,this guy's never going to get
anything, he's slow, obviously.
We're in the closet withcleaner, you're not going to.
And they said obviously not.
(13:15):
And I asked him how about coffee?
Where do I get coffee?
And does Tommy drink coffee?
And the sheriff confirmed it.
So I said I want two cups ofcoffee.
Just bring the cream and sugar,and we're going to leave it on
the desk.
So I already had it laying onhis cup on the desk because I
don't know what he wants in hiscoffee or if he even likes it.
Now I say this nonchalantly butI realize now we've got a
(13:37):
gentleman that has two murdersthat I know of, and I know he's
got hot coffee and I know we'rein a small room and I'm going to
ask him to admit to me thathe's done these terrible things.
So I kind of positioned somepaper towel boxes on the floor
to where I can at least grabthem and throw them up in case
he throws the hot coffee.
(13:58):
You're going to be wearing thishot coffee on your polo, right?
So I prepare the room for theinterview and I remember the VHS
.
I was laughing because we haverecording devices in Lexington.
We have them in the interviewroom and they're high definition
, but the VHS tape.
I remember the camera beingflipped around so I could see
myself in doing the test.
(14:19):
And then Tommy Lynn comes inand he's scruffy long, he's got
like a mullet and he's in ajumpsuit.
First thing he asked me for isa cigarette.
First thing I give him is acigarette in the closet because
I had some in my pocket, becauseI know I'm gonna be
interviewing a suspect.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
So so he sets it down .
Your first appearance.
I know you said he was havinghis mullet and in his jumpsuit.
Would you have imagined fromyour first impression of tommy,
are you thinking guy next door,are you thinking, oh, he's
creepy as can be?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I'm thinking this man's been through the process
before, so I have to be ready.
Yeah, but I'm still excited.
It's a very different feeling.
You're excited, you're nervousand you're wondering what makes
this guy tick.
And the feeling of wanting toknow what makes him tick and
that you can help the communityin the long run overweighs the
(15:17):
nervousness and making mistakeswhen you talk about thinking it
wasn't his first time in theprocess at a rodeo since you're
in texas.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
What made you think that and what's the difference
in that when you handle somebodythat's been through the show
before?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
what happens is when you, when they approach you, you
can it's difficult to say, youcan tell by you.
Look for tattoos.
Regular tattoos are differentthan prison tattoos, right,
there's more art behind yourregular tattoo.
Prison tattoos are black andwhite on the knuckles and on the
neck, so I instantly saw thatone was on around his neck or on
(15:53):
his neck and then he came inlike he wanted to control the
situation, right, and that's adead giveaway.
And he's very comfortable inthe flip-flops and jumpsuit.
So I assume he's been throughthe process before.
So how I'm going to approachthis is I'm going to tell him,
I'm going to give him two orders.
First, I'm going to tell him tosit down and I'm not going to
(16:14):
sit down because I want to be alittle higher than him right
from the meeting and I don'tshake his hand right away.
So those are the two things Idon't do.
Why do you not shake his hand?
Because I don't want him to beable to turn my hand and get the
psychologically, if a person tome, they're going to take
control of you by the way, theyshake your hand, like if they
turn their hand and they're ontop to them, they know that
(16:37):
they're going to be superiorbecause you let them turn your
hand.
So I don't even want to gothere.
So I'm going to tell him to sitdown.
I'm going to ask him if heneeds anything.
So he walks in and you say, havea seat, and I tell him, ask him
how he's doing and have a seat.
And I tell him, ask him howhe's doing.
(16:57):
And I actually tell him well,you're in a situation.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
I'm sorry you're in that situation, so you're
empathizing with him.
Yeah, he might not have beenexpecting that.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
He doesn't expect it at all.
So we proceed to just do theinterview and of course you have
these legal process.
You have to do so now, himgoing through the process before
you know, advising them oftheir Miranda rights.
You've got to do it verycarefully and let them think
about it.
(17:22):
But yet you want to get rightinto the conversation after you
read it and you ask them ifthey're willing to talk to you
and his personality.
He wanted to know what I knew.
So I knew it wouldn't be thatdifficult.
After I read his Miranda rightsand then looked at him and I
said you want to talk about thesituation.
I'm here for him from Lexington.
And you said you had somethingto say about Lexington and
(17:45):
that's why I'm here.
And his response I don'tremember exactly, but I do
remember him saying well, whatdo you do?
And I had to tell him I'm ahomicide detective.
He says, well, I guess you knowwhy I asked for a detective
from Lexington.
That's what I remember, ourbanter back and forth.
I said, yeah, but I've beenasked to come to a lot of places
(18:07):
and people just want sympathyor a visitor.
A lot of people want visitorsbecause they're alone in jail
for a while.
I said so.
I need to know that I'm talkingto the right person.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
So you turned it back around on him.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
And what does he say when you say are you the right
person?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
So he says well, I want to talk to you about a girl
in Lexington.
I said that's why I'm here.
I'd like to talk to you too.
So tell me a little bit aboutwhere you're from, because you
don't want to go right into whatthey've done.
They're not going to tell you.
They may tell you but theywon't be honest, right?
Because he knows in the longrun this may go to court as well
.
So he's building his defensethe same time he's telling you
(18:47):
what he's done.
Trust me, that happens a lot inthe interview room.
We talk about how he was raised,where he traveled, very
interesting things on Tommy LynnSells and him traveling across
country.
We spent a lot of time aboutwhere the system failed him
before we even talked aboutHaley's murder.
(19:07):
He blames the judicial systemin Washington State about not
keeping him in when he asked formental behavior assistance
because he was arrested thereand he said if it weren't for
Washington State, these otherthings wouldn't have happened.
And then he talks about how hewas in jail in Lexington,
(19:28):
kentucky, and they let him rideout the same night and he was
working over at TransylvaniaUniversity as a groundskeeper.
It was pretty amazing thethings that he did.
He worked at a carnival in Ohioand every place that he went he
wreaked havoc on at least oneperson's life.
Yeah, he talked about a murderhe committed in Ohio and I kind
(19:51):
of stopped him.
I said we will get back to thatmurder, because now there's
three that I know about and Iknow the Ranger didn't bring up
three and I told him we'd getback to that because I'm
interested in that too.
But we need to talk about Haley.
And then we started about thedetails of Haley McCone's murder
here in Lexington, kentucky.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
How did he get around ?
When you talk about him gettingaround the country, he got
around by train.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Now it's very interesting because I asked him.
I said how do you know whichtrain is going in which
direction?
And I know it's strange becauseI'm there about a homicide, but
that you get to know a personand you learn for the next case.
And he said well, I neverlearned which direction the
trains were going.
I would always jump on withsomebody who knew they were
(20:35):
going somewhere, so he wouldfollow a homeless person onto
that train and go to the nextstate.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Wherever that may be.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Wherever the train stopped and he felt warm enough,
he stopped.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
So when you say let's talk about you, divert him back
.
Let's talk about this.
Did you call her by name or didyou say this girl?
Speaker 2 (20:57):
At the beginning I didn't call her by name and I
wanted it.
It's another technique.
Once you start talking aboutthe murder, if you put a name to
it his personality you have toreally judge the personalities
of who you're talking to.
But his personality he couldidentify with a name and he had
(21:19):
asked for her name when he hadthe encounter with Haley.
So I wanted to see his and Ididn't know that at first until
he told me and I wanted to seehis expression when I started
using her name.
And what was it?
He was fine with it.
He was fine with calling herHaley.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
So do you then say well, tell me about this.
Did he just open right up andthe floodgates flowed and he
just started from beginning andwent to end?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Right.
I talked to him.
It took about six hours andthen we took a break and then we
talked two more hours.
So we went through severalcigarettes and probably two cups
of coffee a piece.
So when I talk about aninterview, it's not something
you, it's an hour and I'm out ofthere.
Like I said, we talk about himfirst and we get to know each
(22:04):
other and of course I, if youhave to tell them I don't never
tell them the truth about me,but if they ask, I always lie to
them and tell them somethinginteresting that I think they
want to hear.
And eventually we startedtalking about Haley and how he
came to Lexington on a train andhe had worked in Lexington for
a little bit and he liked hisalcohol.
(22:25):
He admitted that he gotarrested for DUI and when he got
out that night he startedwalking to the University of
Kentucky.
And when it was getting lightout he went to the park and he
noticed a woman walking a dogand he said I was going to
attack that woman that morning.
But when he went up and askedher how her day was going, he
(22:46):
said I was going to attack thatwoman that morning.
But when he went up and askedher how her day was going.
He said that dog was mean.
He was not going to deal withthat dog too.
So he said he left and went totowards Transylvania University.
And I said well, tell me how youwent to Transylvania.
Why did I ask that?
Because then I'll know if he'sbeen in Lexington, kentucky.
So he gave me the directions onhow we walked to Transylvania
(23:08):
University and actually talkedabout the steps, the several
steps in front of the steeplebuilding, and he said I sat
there and met some homelesspeople and we went.
He tried to describe it.
He said I went to this placewhere they hand out jobs and
then you can find a job for theday and when you come back you
get paid.
And I said where was that?
(23:28):
He said it's on a side street.
When, something, when.
So I knew he was telling me thetruth.
So he went to work that day.
When he got off of work thatafternoon he went back to that
park because he knew the trainwas going by there.
He was sitting on the steps or,excuse me, on the picnic table
having a cigarette.
He had bought some beer and hesaid this young girl walked up
(23:51):
to him and asked him for acigarette.
And she sat there and smoked acigarette for a minute and he
said he thought a minute.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
He said I offered her beer.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And she said, yeah, I'll take a beer.
He said I knew she was young,so I said let's go out towards
the woods there so you don't getin trouble for drinking a beer.
And they both walked out thereand he said I reached over to
hug her and she started fightingback.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
And that's when he choked her and killed her.
Did he know that she lived thatclose to where they were?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
No, no, he asked her her name.
That's how he knew.
When he gave her the cigarettehe asked you know they had small
talk, haley how are?
you doing?
And he said she had on.
He described her top.
He said he took that off andleft her shorts and then he
covered her body up.
He knew she was dead.
(24:45):
So he covered her body up andtook her bike over to the north
side of town and sold that formore money and then hopped a
train to Louisville, kentucky.
Stayed there for a few days andthen hopped a train to Texas.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
When he talked about strangling her, did he do that
barehanded or did he use anyinstruments?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yes, and on the interview, if it's on video, if
you ever saw it.
He even used the motion withhis hands around her neck.
Yes, he used his hands tostrangle her.
But, what was very important,he told me what brand he was
drinking, and we found thosebottles out there.
And he told me about what brandcigarettes he was smoking, and
(25:25):
we found, of course, we found abottles out there.
And he told me about what brandcigarettes he was smoking, and
we found, of course, we found alot of cigarettes.
But so at that point I knew Ieventually, at the end of the
interview, I was going to askhim for a DNA swab.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
So he strangled her because she fought back.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Was there any sexual assault, or was it just he was
angry, so he strangled her he,he tried to, he, he called, he
tried to make moves on her andshe started fighting back so he
killed her.
He never admitted to sexuallyassault, sexual assaulting her
and he never admitted that aboutkatie harris.
But they did a sexual assaultkit on katie harris in texas and
(26:03):
found out that she was sexuallyassaulted In Haley's situation
her body was in such a state ofdecomposition, it was
undetermined and you wouldn't beable to tell.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Did he go into any detail when he was talking about
strangling her?
Did he talk anything about whatit was like or how she
responded, or anything?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
He did.
And I asked him if she screamedor.
He said all she did was grabhis hands and try to fight back.
He said when she went limp heknew that he had killed her and
so he held her neck even longerjust to make sure.
He said I didn't want her tosuffer.
And he laid her down andcovered her body and immediately
(26:44):
left with her bike.
Wow, her.
And he laid her down andcovered her body and immediately
left with her bike wow.
So the interesting part is Iasked him also in the interview
to describe the bike and hetalked about the orange paint on
the bike.
So I knew exactly that he wasthe person we were looking for,
because that was description ofthe bike we put on the posters
yeah, because I remember I thinkcorrect, if I remember
(27:05):
correctly, she had spray paintedsome different parts of it.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
It was very unique, which I think was frustrating us
that we couldn't find that bike.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah, he sold that bike to a homeless person and
I'm sure they rode off with it.
Did the bike ever turn up?
Speaker 3 (27:17):
No, never, it never turned up.
No, chris, let me ask you.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
So he describes what he did to Haley and what he did
after that.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
What else did you?
At what point does yourinterview end?
Well, it doesn't end with Haley, because I wanted to show him
that I was interested in him.
So I went back to you, told meabout you were working for a
circus in Ohio and that you hadtrouble in Ohio.
So I asked him about that.
He said there was a circusworker that didn't follow one of
his rules and had started aproblem with him, so he had used
(27:58):
a hammer and killed him.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Well, tell us about the rules, because you alluded
to that earlier.
Tell us, in the world of TommyLynn Sills, what rule did he
violate, that he got hammered.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Well, that's a great question.
I asked him in the interviewyou keep talking about.
If you break one of my rules,then you're done with me.
I'm going to kill you or I'mgoing to hurt you real bad.
And at that point I did get alittle nervous in the room.
He said well, for instance, doyou believe me that I killed
Haley?
And I said yeah, I believe you.
(28:28):
He said that's a good thing,because if you don't believe me
and I'm telling you the truth,you broke one of my rules.
And in the same way, if anybodyelse broke any rule with
children because I asked him Isaid OK, that's one of your
rules.
And I knew from talking to himthat he had a girlfriend in
Texas and she had children.
I said so what are the rulesfor the children?
(28:50):
You have murdered two13-year-old girls.
There was a 10-year-old girlthat you slit her throat.
What are the rules?
And he turned to me and pointedat the video camera and he said
turn that thing off.
And at that point I said Iapologize, let's talk about
other things.
And he was talking about otherbodies and I said well, I'd like
to get the ranger in here,because I don't know.
(29:11):
You're describing places whereyou put these bodies, and I'm
not familiar with that, but I'llbe happy to stay in here with
you while you talk to the ranger.
So the ranger had been up allnight.
So we had waited till the nextday and had brought the ranger
back in and we had sat down andhe told about more bodies and
more murders that he hadcommitted.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
So what was the children rule?
Speaker 2 (29:31):
He never told me.
When he told me to shut thatthing off, I apologized and I
wasn't going to go there again.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Because the interview might have ended right,
Absolutely Well, let me ask youthis At least, or I could have
ended it.
Yeah, because one of the ruleswas probably wearing a tie, so
it's a good thing you ditchedthat in the car.
But let me ask you this,because you know we've sat in
there before and, like you said,you get lied to.
Nobody tells the truth.
They tell a version of thetruth.
What did it feel like when hestarted talking about more than
one like that?
(29:57):
What was going on in your mind?
Was it one of those things I orback home, because those are
the things that just don'thappen that often.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
And it's funny you said that that was the first
thing that went through my mind.
I can't wait to tell the otherdetectives that this guy even
wants to talk about othermurders and I'm going to be able
to help them find these bodies,because I don't know how long
it's been since he had murderedother people.
And just his entire story wasvery interesting how he put
blame on other people, like it'sthe other person's fault why he
(30:26):
had to kill him.
You know, the circus guy didn'tfollow his rules, so he had to
go.
He had to go Same with me.
He said shut that thing off, Iwas going to follow his rules.
You know, it's just verystrange.
What he found were the moralrules of society.
(30:47):
One of Tommy Lynn's cells wason that we said some networks
were carrying.
He said the most interestingthing and I find it that we do
this when we investigatehomicides His phrase was see,
you guys, many detectives, youguys make everything so
difficult.
When it's really simple, it'sthe simplest thing.
(31:08):
Someone gets mad.
You just have to know whothey're mad at and then they get
killed.
And that was Tommy Lynn Sells.
And he's right, because howoften, david, have we been asked
what do you think he wasthinking?
Where would he go next?
And you can't with Tommy LynnSells and people like him.
You can't put your brain intheir thought pattern, because
(31:29):
they don't think the same asevery normal human being.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Hey, you know there's more to this story, so go find
the next episode and listen.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
The Murder Police Podcast is hosted by Wendy and
David Lyons and was created tohonor the lives of crime victims
, so their names are neverforgotten.
It is produced, recorded andedited by David Lyons, where you
(32:02):
will find show notes,transcripts, information about
our presenters and a link to theofficial Murder Police Podcast
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(32:23):
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Speaker 3 (32:41):
Lock it down, Judy.
If you have been looking for a realistic true
crime experience, you just foundit.
Get ready for true crime withreal detectives on the Murder.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Police Podcast and every place that he went he
wreaked havoc on at least oneperson's life.
Yeah, he talked about a murderhe committed in Ohio and I kind
of stopped him.
I said we will get back to thatmurder because now there's
three that I know about and Iknow the ranger didn't bring up
three and I told him we'd getback to that because I'm
(00:31):
interested in that too.
But we need to talk about Haley.
And then we started about thedetails of Haley McCone's murder
here in Lexington, kentucky.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Warning the podcast you're about to listen to may
contain graphic descriptions ofviolent assaults, murder and
adult language.
Listener discretion is advised.
Welcome to the Murder PolicePodcast, the Murder of Haley
McCone, part 2 of 3, with yourhosts Wendy and David Lyons,
chris Schoonover and Ray the DALarson.
When did your break come?
(01:20):
How long long after somethingpresented itself?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
January in 2000.
Wow yeah, happy New Year Happy.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
New Year.
So what happened?
Tell us about this big break.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Well, again, my luck, since I'm the lone man in the
totem pole.
I had to go in the office onNew Year's Day it was your week
again, wasn't it?
It was it was, and our sergeant, mark Barnard, received a call
from Texas.
It was the Rangers.
He had previous encounters,again not by a cap, but his
networking, I'm sure.
(01:53):
The Texas Rangers called andsaid that they had arrested a
suspect and he mentioned that hewas in Kentucky and that there
was a murder in Lexington,kentucky, that he would like to
talk to us about.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Wow, yeah, it was great.
So he kind of told on himself.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yes, yes, I wouldn't say in a legal term that's
telling on yourself.
But you know he has somethingto get off his chest Right.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
So what do you do then?
Do you just start rubbing yourpalms together and say finally,
Well, it's not that easy.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So what happens is Sergeant Barnard came over to my
desk, said hey, you're going tohave to leave in four hours.
We have a flight for you.
They talked about who to send,and it can be you or Davey, or
you and Davey.
He said I'd like to just sendyou.
It's New Year's Day, and here'swhat we're worried about.
He doesn't like anybody.
That's arrogant.
(02:46):
He doesn't want anybody to comein dressed up in a suit.
Good thing you didn't send myhusband.
I don't know you like that, butjust to have a conversation
with the man Sure just to sitdown.
And the ranger said that thesuspect had already kicked one
interviewer out of the room, sohe wanted to be very clear that
whoever we send just needs tohave a conversation.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Let's walk back, because you talked about that.
They know this about him andthey've been talking to him and
he talked about wanting to talkabout a murder in Lexington.
Can you tell us what thatconversation was, that the
Rangers had with him, where thathappened, even?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Sure what had happened.
There had been a murder inTexas and the Rangers had been
assigned that murder.
And it was within 48 hours thathe talked to the Rangers and
got caught.
The Rangers did a fantastic jobin Texas.
They put him in the back of thecar from his arrest.
They actually caught him on theway to an attorney's house with
(03:41):
a weapon.
They only made assumptions thathe was going to kill that
attorney, but they caught him inthe car at that point.
They only made assumptions thathe was going to kill that
attorney, but they caught him inthe car.
At that point they put him inthe back of the Ranger car and
was taking him to the Del RioCounty Jail.
At that point he said I supposeI know what this is for.
He thought it was aboutLexington when in fact the
Rangers were charging him withmurder in Texas.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
What was that story of that murder?
Do you have any details aboutthe one they picked him up on?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I do, I do, and it's a sad story.
There were two girls that werestaying overnight with each
other in a trailer park and the13-year-old Katie Harris had
Crystal Sayers over at her houseovernight in their trailer.
Crystal's parents had to gomake a trip.
(04:27):
Her father was looking for ajob in another state, so Crystal
was staying with Katie.
During the middle of the night,tommy Lynn Sells climbed in the
rear window of the trailer andcovered Katie's mouth and sliced
her throat and sexuallyassaulted her.
Crystal Sayers was laying inthe top bunk at the time this
(04:51):
occurred and she woke up out ofa dead sleep, saw Tommy Lynn
Sells slice Katie's throat, soshe was very quiet and closed
her eyes and she said I don'tthink he can see me if I can't
see him right, just like a youngchild would when they're afraid
.
Well, when Tommy Lynn Sells wasdone murdering Katie Harris, he
(05:14):
noticed Krista Sells or, excuseme, krista Searles and went up
to the top bunk, reached hishand up, covered her mouth and
sliced her throat.
She played dead because she wasbleeding and he crawled back
out the window as he was leaving.
She waited and laid there asshe was bleeding.
(05:36):
She crawled out of the front ofthe trailer and was yelling for
the rest of the family membersand she thought they were all
dead.
She went a quarter mile.
Of course, in Texas yourneighbors are far apart.
She went a quarter of a miledown to the next house to an
older couple and knocked on thedoor.
The older gentleman noticedthat she was covered in blood
(05:58):
and let her in and she couldn'teven speak.
She was so injured that he gother.
She was motioning for a penciland she wrote the family's last
name and then she wrote dead asthey were calling 9-1-1 for her.
So this 10 year old girl beingso brave wow was worried about
the other family.
(06:19):
It's pretty amazing wow she wasrushed to the hospital, and then
that's where the Rangers gotinvolved in their investigation.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
And she survived that right.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
She did Next day, 24 hours later, she did a composite
and identified Tommy Lynn Sellsas the suspect that murdered
Katie Harris.
How did the Rangers catch Tommy?
Lynn Sells.
Katie Harris's father, tommylynn, sells at a car dealership
(06:49):
and they had gotten an argumentand they suspected that tommy
had followed uh, mr harris homeand saw that the young girls
were there so his intention allalong was to come back to the
girls yes so how ironic thatthis happened with 13-year-old
Haley and now we have another13-year-old and a 10-year-old
all female.
(07:10):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
So he makes this utterance in the back of this
car.
I guess, when these—.
How did they catch him?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
From the composite and then taking it to Mr Harris
and Mr Harris said that looksjust like this gentleman.
So when they stopped him theyhad enough to arrest him on the
weapon and going to thisattorney's home because he was
angry with the attorney.
And later on, when we talkabout time and land cells,
you'll see that he has his ownrules for society.
So at that point they got himin the car and that's why he
(07:43):
mentioned Lexington, not knowingthat they had him in the car
and that's why he mentionedLexington, not knowing that they
had him.
On the murder and the rangerafter meeting him he was great
with Tommy Lynn Sells.
He got him to talk about themurder in Texas and he confessed
to that ranger about the murderof Katie Harris.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
When you talk about the ranger being great with
Tommy, go into detail.
What do you mean by that?
And is that something that's ago when you're with somebody?
How do you, how do you getgreat with a bad guy like that?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
yeah, that's a great question.
Thanks, david.
Um, what happens is you have tobuild rapport in a short period
of time, if, if you can believethat.
So you know, this man has donethe worst thing in society, so
now you're going to have tobefriend this person.
So calling them by first nameis a great start, and when he
called us he even said Tommy,and we're going.
(08:30):
Tommy, who he goes?
Oh, tommy Lincels.
We just arrested him for amurder.
Tommy wants to talk to somebody.
Well, the ranger used his firstname.
You get him a cup of coffee,anything they want.
If they smoke cigarettes, youget them a cigarette and you
approach them about the issuesthat you want to talk to them
about.
You approach it like it's nobig deal.
(08:50):
You minimize their role inanything they've ever done and
then you start to empathize withthem.
Hey, I understand you had anargument with a gentleman
earlier, and so we have seenthat there's been a disruption
in his house.
I'd like to talk to you aboutthat.
Can you tell me anything thatyou know?
And so you let them.
(09:11):
What David and I and a bunch ofthe other homicide detectives
used to say you keep themtalking and you get a great lie
is better than no one talking atall.
So if you can start themtalking and even lying to you no
one talking at all so if youcan start them talking and even
lying to you, then you're off toa really good start.
And here's a psychologicalthing that once you get a person
with that personality of timeand themselves and you'll know
(09:33):
that personality right off theyalways want to tell you a story
and how wonderful it is and thethings that they have done is
not their fault, and then youcan start using what they tell
you against them.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
Wow, so you get the call from this ranger.
And were you just blown away?
Were you just?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
thinking here we are some eight months later.
Yes, I was a little excited buta little nervous too, because
if you've ever been to Del Rio,it's in East Jesus, so it's way
out there.
So you land in San Antonio, butyou have to drive almost
through the tip of Mexico andthen back up into a corner of
Texas.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
What kind?
Speaker 4 (10:11):
of preparation did you do once you got there
talking to the Texas Rangers?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Well, prior to that, mark Barner, sergeant Barner and
I talked.
I went and bought a cooler onceI landed there because I want
his DNA right and I'm going tohave to fly back with it.
So I want to get the correctequipment to keep the things
cold, get the suave and keepthem secure.
So a cooler is like a carry-onto me, so that's what I'm going
to bring back with me if I canget his DNA.
(10:40):
So at that point I call theranger, rented the best car I
could Flat, texas, fastconvertible.
No, I'm kidding, got to getthere Right.
So I called the ranger and Iasked what kind of personality
he had.
(11:00):
I told the ranger what I waswearing, because when I flew I
wore a button-up shirt, whiteshirt, a tie and just dockers.
And he said well, you mightwant to change.
Come in in just a polo shirtand some jeans, he said.
And he already kicked one out.
So here's why he kicked him out.
And so he said just don't dothat mistake.
(11:21):
Why did he kick the other?
guy out.
The other interviewer came inaccusatory right off the
beginning that he already hadenough evidence to lock him up
and that's not going to workwith Tommy Lynn Sells.
So from that point forward Ijust kind of went over my notes
at a road stop rest of HaleyMcCone's case and details that I
(11:43):
knew only he would know, andwalked up to the jail and the
sheriff let me in and the TexasRanger introduced himself.
He said I'm not going to goback there with you because he
just told me about a murder andI don't want to involve my
rapport with your rapport.
We'll set you up in a supplycloset.
That's the only place they hadfor me to interview Tommy Lynn
(12:05):
Sells and they used a VHSrecorder.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Wow.
Well, I have to ask when youwere on that plane and driving
in your little fast car down toDel Rio, were you excited?
Were you nervous?
Were you just thinking oh myGod, I could vomit, I'm so
nervous, or were you just likeI'm excited we finally got?
Speaker 2 (12:26):
this part of the job believe it or not is not
testifying in the court.
My favorite part isinterviewing, getting
information and trying to getthe admission or confession of
suspects.
I love doing that, so I wasexcited.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
You were in your element.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
So you walk into your little supply room, you, I
guess, push aside your paperclips and binder clips.
And was Tommy in there, or didthey bring him to you?
Speaker 2 (12:53):
They brought him to me.
So I had changed in the car,put my jeans on and a polo shirt
, didn't tuck it in.
I asked all the questions Areyou allowed to smoke in here?
And of course it's a supplyroom with paper towels, toilet
paper, cleaner.
And they look at me like, well,this guy's never going to get
anything, he's slow, obviously.
We're in the closet withcleaner, you're not going to.
And they said obviously not.
(13:15):
And I asked him how about coffee?
Where do I get coffee?
And does Tommy drink coffee?
And the sheriff confirmed it.
So I said I want two cups ofcoffee.
Just bring the cream and sugar,and we're going to leave it on
the desk.
So I already had it laying onhis cup on the desk because I
don't know what he wants in hiscoffee or if he even likes it.
Now I say this nonchalantly butI realize now we've got a
(13:37):
gentleman that has two murdersthat I know of, and I know he's
got hot coffee and I know we'rein a small room and I'm going to
ask him to admit to me thathe's done these terrible things.
So I kind of positioned somepaper towel boxes on the floor
to where I can at least grabthem and throw them up in case
he throws the hot coffee.
(13:58):
You're going to be wearing thishot coffee on your polo, right?
So I prepare the room for theinterview and I remember the VHS
.
I was laughing because we haverecording devices in Lexington.
We have them in the interviewroom and they're high definition
, but the VHS tape.
I remember the camera beingflipped around so I could see
myself in doing the test.
(14:19):
And then Tommy Lynn comes inand he's scruffy long, he's got
like a mullet and he's in ajumpsuit.
First thing he asked me for isa cigarette.
First thing I give him is acigarette in the closet because
I had some in my pocket, becauseI know I'm gonna be
interviewing a suspect.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
So so he sets it down .
Your first appearance.
I know you said he was havinghis mullet and in his jumpsuit.
Would you have imagined fromyour first impression of tommy,
are you thinking guy next door,are you thinking, oh, he's
creepy as can be?
Speaker 2 (14:56):
I'm thinking this man's been through the process
before, so I have to be ready.
Yeah, but I'm still excited.
It's a very different feeling.
You're excited, you're nervousand you're wondering what makes
this guy tick.
And the feeling of wanting toknow what makes him tick and
that you can help the communityin the long run overweighs the
(15:17):
nervousness and making mistakeswhen you talk about thinking it
wasn't his first time in theprocess at a rodeo since you're
in texas.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
What made you think that and what's the difference
in that when you handle somebodythat's been through the show
before?
Speaker 2 (15:32):
what happens is when you, when they approach you, you
can it's difficult to say, youcan tell by you.
Look for tattoos.
Regular tattoos are differentthan prison tattoos, right,
there's more art behind yourregular tattoo.
Prison tattoos are black andwhite on the knuckles and on the
neck, so I instantly saw thatone was on around his neck or on
(15:53):
his neck and then he came inlike he wanted to control the
situation, right, and that's adead giveaway.
And he's very comfortable inthe flip-flops and jumpsuit.
So I assume he's been throughthe process before.
So how I'm going to approachthis is I'm going to tell him,
I'm going to give him two orders.
First, I'm going to tell him tosit down and I'm not going to
(16:14):
sit down because I want to be alittle higher than him right
from the meeting and I don'tshake his hand right away.
So those are the two things Idon't do.
Why do you not shake his hand?
Because I don't want him to beable to turn my hand and get the
psychologically, if a person tome, they're going to take
control of you by the way, theyshake your hand, like if they
turn their hand and they're ontop to them, they know that
(16:37):
they're going to be superiorbecause you let them turn your
hand.
So I don't even want to gothere.
So I'm going to tell him to sitdown.
I'm going to ask him if heneeds anything.
So he walks in and you say, havea seat, and I tell him, ask him
how he's doing and have a seat.
And I tell him, ask him howhe's doing.
(16:57):
And I actually tell him well,you're in a situation.
Speaker 3 (16:59):
I'm sorry you're in that situation, so you're
empathizing with him.
Yeah, he might not have beenexpecting that.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
He doesn't expect it at all.
So we proceed to just do theinterview and of course you have
these legal process.
You have to do so now, himgoing through the process before
you know, advising them oftheir Miranda rights.
You've got to do it verycarefully and let them think
about it.
(17:22):
But yet you want to get rightinto the conversation after you
read it and you ask them ifthey're willing to talk to you
and his personality.
He wanted to know what I knew.
So I knew it wouldn't be thatdifficult.
After I read his Miranda rightsand then looked at him and I
said you want to talk about thesituation.
I'm here for him from Lexington.
And you said you had somethingto say about Lexington and
(17:45):
that's why I'm here.
And his response I don'tremember exactly, but I do
remember him saying well, whatdo you do?
And I had to tell him I'm ahomicide detective.
He says, well, I guess you knowwhy I asked for a detective
from Lexington.
That's what I remember, ourbanter back and forth.
I said, yeah, but I've beenasked to come to a lot of places
(18:07):
and people just want sympathyor a visitor.
A lot of people want visitorsbecause they're alone in jail
for a while.
I said so.
I need to know that I'm talkingto the right person.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
So you turned it back around on him.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
And what does he say when you say are you the right
person?
Speaker 2 (18:24):
So he says well, I want to talk to you about a girl
in Lexington.
I said that's why I'm here.
I'd like to talk to you too.
So tell me a little bit aboutwhere you're from, because you
don't want to go right into whatthey've done.
They're not going to tell you.
They may tell you but theywon't be honest, right?
Because he knows in the longrun this may go to court as well
.
So he's building his defensethe same time he's telling you
(18:47):
what he's done.
Trust me, that happens a lot inthe interview room.
We talk about how he was raised,where he traveled, very
interesting things on Tommy LynnSells and him traveling across
country.
We spent a lot of time aboutwhere the system failed him
before we even talked aboutHaley's murder.
(19:07):
He blames the judicial systemin Washington State about not
keeping him in when he asked formental behavior assistance
because he was arrested thereand he said if it weren't for
Washington State, these otherthings wouldn't have happened.
And then he talks about how hewas in jail in Lexington,
(19:28):
kentucky, and they let him rideout the same night and he was
working over at TransylvaniaUniversity as a groundskeeper.
It was pretty amazing thethings that he did.
He worked at a carnival in Ohioand every place that he went he
wreaked havoc on at least oneperson's life.
Yeah, he talked about a murderhe committed in Ohio and I kind
(19:51):
of stopped him.
I said we will get back to thatmurder, because now there's
three that I know about and Iknow the Ranger didn't bring up
three and I told him we'd getback to that because I'm
interested in that too.
But we need to talk about Haley.
And then we started about thedetails of Haley McCone's murder
here in Lexington, kentucky.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
How did he get around ?
When you talk about him gettingaround the country, he got
around by train.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Now it's very interesting because I asked him.
I said how do you know whichtrain is going in which
direction?
And I know it's strange becauseI'm there about a homicide, but
that you get to know a personand you learn for the next case.
And he said well, I neverlearned which direction the
trains were going.
I would always jump on withsomebody who knew they were
(20:35):
going somewhere, so he wouldfollow a homeless person onto
that train and go to the nextstate.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
Wherever that may be.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Wherever the train stopped and he felt warm enough,
he stopped.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
So when you say let's talk about you, divert him back
.
Let's talk about this.
Did you call her by name or didyou say this girl?
Speaker 2 (20:57):
At the beginning I didn't call her by name and I
wanted it.
It's another technique.
Once you start talking aboutthe murder, if you put a name to
it his personality you have toreally judge the personalities
of who you're talking to.
But his personality he couldidentify with a name and he had
(21:19):
asked for her name when he hadthe encounter with Haley.
So I wanted to see his and Ididn't know that at first until
he told me and I wanted to seehis expression when I started
using her name.
And what was it?
He was fine with it.
He was fine with calling herHaley.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
So do you then say well, tell me about this.
Did he just open right up andthe floodgates flowed and he
just started from beginning andwent to end?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
Right.
I talked to him.
It took about six hours andthen we took a break and then we
talked two more hours.
So we went through severalcigarettes and probably two cups
of coffee a piece.
So when I talk about aninterview, it's not something
you, it's an hour and I'm out ofthere.
Like I said, we talk about himfirst and we get to know each
(22:04):
other and of course I, if youhave to tell them I don't never
tell them the truth about me,but if they ask, I always lie to
them and tell them somethinginteresting that I think they
want to hear.
And eventually we startedtalking about Haley and how he
came to Lexington on a train andhe had worked in Lexington for
a little bit and he liked hisalcohol.
(22:25):
He admitted that he gotarrested for DUI and when he got
out that night he startedwalking to the University of
Kentucky.
And when it was getting lightout he went to the park and he
noticed a woman walking a dogand he said I was going to
attack that woman that morning.
But when he went up and askedher how her day was going, he
(22:46):
said I was going to attack thatwoman that morning.
But when he went up and askedher how her day was going.
He said that dog was mean.
He was not going to deal withthat dog too.
So he said he left and went totowards Transylvania University.
And I said well, tell me how youwent to Transylvania.
Why did I ask that?
Because then I'll know if he'sbeen in Lexington, kentucky.
So he gave me the directions onhow we walked to Transylvania
(23:08):
University and actually talkedabout the steps, the several
steps in front of the steeplebuilding, and he said I sat
there and met some homelesspeople and we went.
He tried to describe it.
He said I went to this placewhere they hand out jobs and
then you can find a job for theday and when you come back you
get paid.
And I said where was that?
(23:28):
He said it's on a side street.
When, something, when.
So I knew he was telling me thetruth.
So he went to work that day.
When he got off of work thatafternoon he went back to that
park because he knew the trainwas going by there.
He was sitting on the steps or,excuse me, on the picnic table
having a cigarette.
He had bought some beer and hesaid this young girl walked up
(23:51):
to him and asked him for acigarette.
And she sat there and smoked acigarette for a minute and he
said he thought a minute.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
He said I offered her beer.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And she said, yeah, I'll take a beer.
He said I knew she was young,so I said let's go out towards
the woods there so you don't getin trouble for drinking a beer.
And they both walked out thereand he said I reached over to
hug her and she started fightingback.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
And that's when he choked her and killed her.
Did he know that she lived thatclose to where they were?
Speaker 2 (24:24):
No, no, he asked her her name.
That's how he knew.
When he gave her the cigarettehe asked you know they had small
talk, haley how are?
you doing?
And he said she had on.
He described her top.
He said he took that off andleft her shorts and then he
covered her body up.
He knew she was dead.
(24:45):
So he covered her body up andtook her bike over to the north
side of town and sold that formore money and then hopped a
train to Louisville, kentucky.
Stayed there for a few days andthen hopped a train to Texas.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
When he talked about strangling her, did he do that
barehanded or did he use anyinstruments?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Yes, and on the interview, if it's on video, if
you ever saw it.
He even used the motion withhis hands around her neck.
Yes, he used his hands tostrangle her.
But, what was very important,he told me what brand he was
drinking, and we found thosebottles out there.
And he told me about what brandcigarettes he was smoking, and
(25:25):
we found, of course, we found abottles out there.
And he told me about what brandcigarettes he was smoking, and
we found, of course, we found alot of cigarettes.
But so at that point I knew Ieventually, at the end of the
interview, I was going to askhim for a DNA swab.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
So he strangled her because she fought back.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
Was there any sexual assault, or was it just he was
angry, so he strangled her he,he tried to, he, he called, he
tried to make moves on her andshe started fighting back so he
killed her.
He never admitted to sexuallyassault, sexual assaulting her
and he never admitted that aboutkatie harris.
But they did a sexual assaultkit on katie harris in texas and
(26:03):
found out that she was sexuallyassaulted In Haley's situation
her body was in such a state ofdecomposition, it was
undetermined and you wouldn't beable to tell.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Did he go into any detail when he was talking about
strangling her?
Did he talk anything about whatit was like or how she
responded, or anything?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
He did.
And I asked him if she screamedor.
He said all she did was grabhis hands and try to fight back.
He said when she went limp heknew that he had killed her and
so he held her neck even longerjust to make sure.
He said I didn't want her tosuffer.
And he laid her down andcovered her body and immediately
(26:44):
left with her bike.
Wow, her.
And he laid her down andcovered her body and immediately
left with her bike wow.
So the interesting part is Iasked him also in the interview
to describe the bike and hetalked about the orange paint on
the bike.
So I knew exactly that he wasthe person we were looking for,
because that was description ofthe bike we put on the posters
yeah, because I remember I thinkcorrect, if I remember
(27:05):
correctly, she had spray paintedsome different parts of it.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
It was very unique, which I think was frustrating us
that we couldn't find that bike.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah, he sold that bike to a homeless person and
I'm sure they rode off with it.
Did the bike ever turn up?
Speaker 3 (27:17):
No, never, it never turned up.
No, chris, let me ask you.
Speaker 4 (27:21):
So he describes what he did to Haley and what he did
after that.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
What else did you?
At what point does yourinterview end?
Well, it doesn't end with Haley, because I wanted to show him
that I was interested in him.
So I went back to you, told meabout you were working for a
circus in Ohio and that you hadtrouble in Ohio.
So I asked him about that.
He said there was a circusworker that didn't follow one of
his rules and had started aproblem with him, so he had used
(27:58):
a hammer and killed him.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Well, tell us about the rules, because you alluded
to that earlier.
Tell us, in the world of TommyLynn Sills, what rule did he
violate, that he got hammered.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Well, that's a great question.
I asked him in the interviewyou keep talking about.
If you break one of my rules,then you're done with me.
I'm going to kill you or I'mgoing to hurt you real bad.
And at that point I did get alittle nervous in the room.
He said well, for instance, doyou believe me that I killed
Haley?
And I said yeah, I believe you.
(28:28):
He said that's a good thing,because if you don't believe me
and I'm telling you the truth,you broke one of my rules.
And in the same way, if anybodyelse broke any rule with
children because I asked him Isaid OK, that's one of your
rules.
And I knew from talking to himthat he had a girlfriend in
Texas and she had children.
I said so what are the rulesfor the children?
(28:50):
You have murdered two13-year-old girls.
There was a 10-year-old girlthat you slit her throat.
What are the rules?
And he turned to me and pointedat the video camera and he said
turn that thing off.
And at that point I said Iapologize, let's talk about
other things.
And he was talking about otherbodies and I said well, I'd like
to get the ranger in here,because I don't know.
(29:11):
You're describing places whereyou put these bodies, and I'm
not familiar with that, but I'llbe happy to stay in here with
you while you talk to the ranger.
So the ranger had been up allnight.
So we had waited till the nextday and had brought the ranger
back in and we had sat down andhe told about more bodies and
more murders that he hadcommitted.
Speaker 3 (29:29):
So what was the children rule?
Speaker 2 (29:31):
He never told me.
When he told me to shut thatthing off, I apologized and I
wasn't going to go there again.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Because the interview might have ended right,
Absolutely Well, let me ask youthis At least, or I could have
ended it.
Yeah, because one of the ruleswas probably wearing a tie, so
it's a good thing you ditchedthat in the car.
But let me ask you this,because you know we've sat in
there before and, like you said,you get lied to.
Nobody tells the truth.
They tell a version of thetruth.
What did it feel like when hestarted talking about more than
one like that?
(29:57):
What was going on in your mind?
Was it one of those things I orback home, because those are
the things that just don'thappen that often.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
And it's funny you said that that was the first
thing that went through my mind.
I can't wait to tell the otherdetectives that this guy even
wants to talk about othermurders and I'm going to be able
to help them find these bodies,because I don't know how long
it's been since he had murderedother people.
And just his entire story wasvery interesting how he put
blame on other people, like it'sthe other person's fault why he
(30:26):
had to kill him.
You know, the circus guy didn'tfollow his rules, so he had to
go.
He had to go Same with me.
He said shut that thing off, Iwas going to follow his rules.
You know, it's just verystrange.
What he found were the moralrules of society.
(30:47):
One of Tommy Lynn's cells wason that we said some networks
were carrying.
He said the most interestingthing and I find it that we do
this when we investigatehomicides His phrase was see,
you guys, many detectives, youguys make everything so
difficult.
When it's really simple, it'sthe simplest thing.
(31:08):
Someone gets mad.
You just have to know whothey're mad at and then they get
killed.
And that was Tommy Lynn Sells.
And he's right, because howoften, david, have we been asked
what do you think he wasthinking?
Where would he go next?
And you can't with Tommy LynnSells and people like him.
You can't put your brain intheir thought pattern, because
(31:29):
they don't think the same asevery normal human being.
Speaker 1 (31:32):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Hey, you know there's more to this story, so go find
the next episode and listen.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
The Murder Police Podcast is hosted by Wendy and
David Lyons and was created tohonor the lives of crime victims
, so their names are neverforgotten.
It is produced, recorded andedited by David Lyons, where you
(32:02):
will find show notes,transcripts, information about
our presenters and a link to theofficial Murder Police Podcast
merch store, where you canpurchase a huge variety of
Murder Police Podcast swag.
We are also on Facebook,instagram and YouTube, which is
closed caption for those thatare hearing impaired.
Just search for the MurderPolice Podcast and you will find
(32:23):
us.
If you have enjoyed thispodcast, please subscribe for
more and give us five stars anda written review.
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Speaker 3 (32:41):
Lock it down, Judy.
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