September 8, 2020 • 29 mins
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you have been looking for a realistic true
crime experience, you just foundit.
Get ready for true crime withreal detectives.
On the Murder Police podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
So we got called because it was just early in the
evening, late afternoon, 4.35.
We got a call that a body wasfound by a young boy walking his
dog and the dog led the youngboy over to a smell.
The young man and the dog wentback to his father and the
father came back and noticed thesmell so he contacted the
(00:32):
police.
And that is when we respondedand discovered that it was Haley
McCone, and that was 10 dayslater.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Warning the podcast you're about to listen to may
contain graphic descriptions ofviolent assaults, murder and
adult language.
Listener discretion is advised.
Welcome to the Murder PolicePodcast, the Murder of Haley
McCone, part 1 of 3, with yourhosts Wendy and David Lyons,
chris Schoonover and Ray the DALarson.
Hey, chris, thank you forjoining us.
(01:22):
How are you today?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I'm doing well.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
And Ray.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
I'm just tap dancing.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
And David, how are you doing over there?
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Doing fantastic.
I'm excited to go through thisone.
This was an amazing case to bea part of.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Chris, why don't you start with telling us a little
bit about yourself?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Okay, Since I'm really old, I'll start with my
military career, so it doesn'ttake me all the way back to
infant stage with Moses.
I was in the United States Armyand while I was in there in the
United States Army I was acriminal investigator, a special
agent with the CriminalInvestigative Division.
We investigated felonies, allthe felonies that were
(01:59):
associated with the military andthe US government.
We also had investigations offthe military base if they had a
nexus to the government.
Then I left the military andgot hired by the Bureau of
Prisons where I was assigned tothe special investigative
section where we investigatedinmates that would have a plot
to escape.
We would investigate any typeof scams that the inmates came
(02:22):
up with with family members.
We'd listen to their phonecalls, look into their bank
accounts and we also, if we hadrumor that family members were
bringing in narcotics into thefacility, we'd call K-9 and do
those type of investigations.
While I was with the Bureau ofPrisons I applied with the
Lexington Police Department, gothired in 1996.
I applied with the LexingtonPolice Department, got hired in
(02:43):
1996.
Three weeks after myprobationary period I got moved
up to homicide and was assignedto David Lyons and that's how we
met.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Wow, a lot of experience there.
I don't think that we're goingto get much by you.
Well, chris, what is this?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
case about this Haley McCone case.
This case is a unique casebecause it's mid-America.
Typical 13-year-old rebelliousteenager and, of course,
middle-class parents reportedtheir child missing and the
Lexington Police Department usedevery resource in trying to
locate her.
We did posters, we did doorknocks, neighborhood canvases,
(03:26):
met people in the park at thesame time.
We thought she went missing.
We used all our resources andgot nowhere.
It was quite an experience todo this investigation with other
detectives and use all theresources we could to find her.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Wow, so has this case been the subject of any other
true crime reporting?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yes, there's been several major networks that have
done several stories on thesuspect and there's been a
couple of books that have beenwritten about the suspect.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Okay, well, where and when did this homicide occur?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
This homicide occurred in Lexington, kentucky,
in Fayette County.
It was off.
If anybody knows where theUniversity of Kentucky is
located of course the basketballmecca of the world, but it's
just several blocks off of themain campus.
The main thoroughfare that goesthrough there is called
Nicholasville Road.
Her family lived a couple ofblocks off of Elizabeth Park.
(04:24):
Their house backed up to thepark.
She was reported missing by afamily member from Floral Park
and then Elizabeth Park is rightbehind their house, so that's
where it occurred.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Okay, so can you tell us about Haley?
I know she's 13.
What more can you tell us abouther?
Sure, I know, we know she's 13.
What more can you?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
tell us about her.
Sure, If you can think of atypical 13-year-old, smoking,
rebellious teenager that wantsto do everything opposite that
her parents want her to do,that's Haley.
She was a frequent runaway, andwhat I mean by runaway is her
family was middle class but they, like any other family, had
hidden secrets.
They had issues with otherrelatives that nobody knew, and
(05:08):
to escape that, Haley would geton her bike, which became very
important in the case.
Later she would get on her bikeand she would ride across town
or to a friend's house and stayovernight Across town I'm
talking a grandparent and shewould stay overnight and not
tell her parents.
So they would report hermissing because of course,
there's truancy laws and if shedidn't show up to school the
(05:29):
next day her parents would be introuble.
So they would report hermissing.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
So this wasn't really untypical that she was missing
yet again.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
No, they did what any other parent would do.
They waited several hours andthey reported her missing.
And days went by and that'swhen all of us, including David
we started using our resourcesposters.
We even use family members tohelp us hang posters on
telephone poles and storefronts.
We do door knocks neighborhoodcanvases is what we call them.
(06:02):
And we kind of discovered thatwe weren't doing neighborhood
canvases correctly until Davidcame up with a method that,
since it was a college campus,we forgot that when we talk to
somebody at the front doorthey're not the only people
living in that house.
So we started revamping theforms and say how many people
live in this home?
(06:22):
How many cars are parked herenormally, what are the hours
that people are working orcoming back and forth to school?
Normally we would knock on thedoor and say did you hear
anything unusual?
Have you seen anything unusual?
Any cars look out of place.
But this changed our wholeapproach on doing neighborhood
canvases to try to locate Haley.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yeah, he's pretty good about changing things to
fit his agenda usually andthey're good for the most part.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Sure, he got promoted through the ranks.
He knows what he's doing.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Well, so I guess take us back to the beginning.
Did you just get a call?
Is it just typical that yourphone rings and somebody says,
hey, there's a missing child?
What were you doing and how didyou first find out about this?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
In the homicide unit in Lexington.
I'll give you a littlebackground about the way things
are done.
Usually a detective is on callAt that time it was for seven
days during the week and thatdoesn't mean the person or the
detective on call actually isgoing to be the lead in that
investigation.
They get the original call,they make an assessment of the
(07:24):
call, how many people are needed, and at that time we had a rule
All the homicide detectives aregoing to respond.
So we got called because it wasjust early in the evening, late
afternoon, 435.
We got a call that a body wasfound by a young boy walking his
dog and the dog led the youngboy over to a smell.
(07:44):
The young man and the dog wentback to his father and the
father came back and noticed thesmell.
So he contacted the police andthat is when we responded and
discovered that it was HaleyMcCone, and that was 10 days
later after she was reportedmissing.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
So prior to this, you're just thinking you're
looking for still a missingchild and we're just still
looking and she still hasn'tcome back and nobody's seen her.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Right, we don't know if this is Haley.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
So at still hasn't come back and nobody's seen her.
Right, we don't know if this ishayley, so at this point you're
just still searching for her.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
And now a call comes in that hey, there's a body
right right, so do you go there?
Speaker 3 (08:19):
or did you actually go there, or how did that happen
?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
right, so the on-call detective is going to be the
lead detective for that time.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Seven days.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Right, Because they are going.
A lot of things happensimultaneously.
You have to have somebody atthe crime scene to guide the
forensic services unit in caseyou need them to collect
something.
He also, or she also, has tomake the decision on who needs
to be called the corner Anybodyfrom KSP with the lab, if you
(08:51):
would like.
For instance, we did use EmilyCraig, who's world-renowned in
pathology, and she came andhelped us collect evidence.
So the person needs to decideto call Emily or KSP.
Also any of the supervisorsthat need to be notified,
because that's very important,and all the other detectives get
assigned a job neighborhoodcanvas, like I said.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Chris, let me ask you a question.
You say your body was found 10days after reported missing and
an odor took the dog to thatspot.
What kind of a condition is abody in after it's been dead and
exposed for 10 days?
That's an interesting question.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
What happens is, depending on the temperature of
the surrounding area, a body cango through various stages of
decomposition, depending on alsothe environment.
With the animals maggots flies.
If you have coyotes, any kindof wild dogs that walk through
the woods, they can drag bodyparts, any kind of evidence,
(09:57):
they can drag that away.
Now going back to the heat orthe temperature, sometimes if
it's colder, then the bodydecomposes slower.
So it's very interesting andagain, I'll save that for Emily
Craig if you ever have her onyour show, she will collect
those maggots.
And what's very interesting isshe can freeze those maggots and
(10:18):
from what stage those maggotsare in growth.
She can approximate how longthe body has been placed there
or laying in that position.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Can you talk more about specifically where her
body was found and what kind ofconditions were there at that
site?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Sure.
So in Kentucky in the month ofMay it becomes very hot.
Anytime after April you'regoing to get heat.
And it is in a wooded area.
At the back of that parkthere's tall trees, hedges, and
there's also a railroad trackthat runs through that
neighborhood.
At the rear of that park thereis a trail, a walking trail.
(10:54):
It's dirt, dead trees laying onboth sides of the trail, and
when we got to the scene therewere dead leaves, a log, and
until you moved the leaves youcould not see Haley's body at
all.
So once that was left and moved, then you could see that of
(11:17):
course maggots had been involved, the stage of decomposition.
But you could tell that therewas no shirt and just her shorts
were on her.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
So you get there and you go to this walking trail and
you see the body there, andwhat do you do at that point?
Did a light bulb go off in yourhead and you think maybe this
is her, because I know she livesright there, or were you just
thinking this is another victimin 1999?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Right, regardless of what people think about
detectives common sense itreally plays into a huge part of
what we do.
So, yeah, you can't assumeanything, because your final
goal is to make this a properscene, to follow all the rules,
because you want a conviction inthe case at the very end.
(12:07):
So you want to follow the rulesvery carefully.
So you're not going to assumeit's Haley.
But we have a good feeling.
I mean common sense.
Her house backs up to this park.
She's been missing.
We haven't had any otherreports of missing females since
Haley's been missing.
And of course, we start goingand asking the family give us
(12:28):
some particulars about does shehave tattoos?
Does she have any broken bones?
Because when that body goes toautopsy they're going to know
any kind of scar tissue, anykind of bones that have been
broken and rehealed, any kind ofdental work, anything like that
.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
That can identify if it's hailed Any distinguished
marks on her.
Yes, so you got there andthere's this female.
And then what did you do?
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Well, we called the rest of the homicide detectives
in and we decided who would dowhat.
And what's great about thehomicide unit that Dave and I
was in is you knew who had whatstrengths.
Some people were better atwriting search warrants and
getting ways into a house.
Some people were better atreading crime scenes, knowing
what evidence needed to bepicked up, and some people are
(13:17):
just better at interviewing andwalking the neighborhood and
talking to family members andexplaining to, for example,
haley's family that we aren'tsure who this is yet.
But can you help us give ussome background?
We aren't sure who this is yet,but can you help us give us
some background?
Because, remember, at thebeginning of the show I said it
was very important that shewould ride this bike.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
There was no bike there.
Oh okay, so you coordinate allthat, and then what happens?
Next you send her to thispathology.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Well, yeah, we went in to talk to her parents and
asked her all those questions Imentioned previously.
Then the forensic services unit.
We have to sit there and makesure we don't, make sure we
assist them in any kind ofinformation.
We get from the neighborhood,any new information, so they
know what they're looking forand we stay at that scene.
All the homicide detectivesstay at that scene in case
(14:10):
there's anything that needs tobe done.
And we need to go elsewhere andstart interviewing people Once
the scene is processed and it'stime to move that body.
Now I'm not talking an hour,two hours.
It takes.
If you're doing a crime sceneright, it takes anywhere from 24
hours and with respect to thedeceased person, it takes 24
(14:33):
hours or more to process thatcrime scene correctly.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Wow, so that was a long day, wasn't it?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yes, we were out there all night actually dealing
with some of the media, becausethe media liked to go on the
railroad tracks and find otherways in and the crime scene was
taped off.
But you have to rememberthere's always an avenue if they
want to get into a scene so wewere making sure that was taken
care of and we were making sureall witnesses were covered, if
there were any why do youprotect the scene from the media
(15:02):
?
Speaker 4 (15:03):
why?
Why do you do that?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Well, I can give you a quick reason and then I'll
give you what we would suspect.
The right reason is becauseanybody that comes into that
crime scene that doesn't haveprotective garments on ie
booties, jumpsuits, gloves isgoing to contaminate that crime
scene.
Gloves is going to contaminatethat crime scene and that's a
(15:27):
great way for a defense attorneyto go ahead and find a leak in
your investigation.
So we don't want anybody thatdoesn't belong in that crime
scene in that crime scene.
The second is it sells news.
It gives you those ratings, sothey want in there to boost
those ratings, and that's notwhat it's about.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Well, I understand, do you have any feel any
obligation to protect what'sgoing on, because subsequently
you know you're going to be awitness, absolutely, and there's
going to have to be a?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
trial Absolutely.
And a great example is if theforensic service unit is taking
photographs and in thebackground you see shoes or a
camera that's laying on arailroad track, defense attorney
is going to pick that up andthey're going to ask well, who
is this detective?
And that's a terrible thing tobe on the stand and answer those
questions.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Let me throw in too that it's important people
listening understand.
It's just not the media wedidn't allow in.
But when you're talking abouteverybody from homicide being
there, how many people fromhomicide went in that scene that
day?
Two people.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
That's it.
That's all we allow.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
So it's not just a thing with the media, it's
nobody goes in.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
That's right.
That's correct.
And you've experiencedsomething, mr Larson about.
You come up and you ask for abriefing, but you don't ever ask
to be toured back there becauseyou know the end result.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Well, I know Tim Russell, who is a great forensic
guy for the police department,would chew me out, and he has.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
So at this point you're still processing and this
person is still there.
So when you get it processedand everything's completed and
then the deceased is sent to beexamined, what happens then?
Do you just wait, Do you?
(17:14):
What happens then?
Speaker 1 (17:16):
You might want to talk about.
Does somebody from the unit goto the autopsy and why are they
there and what's that look likewhen it happens?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yes, the autopsy.
And why are they there andwhat's that look like when it
happens?
Yes, so, as I said before, theon-call detective and the lead
detective usually will go toFrankfurt whenever the body is
escorted up there.
They will attend the autopsy.
They take notes at the autopsy.
They also assist forensicservices unit if there's a
question, because, remember,you're getting information
constantly from other detectives, from even forensic services
(17:44):
hey, we found a knife or we's aquestion, because, remember,
you're getting informationconstantly from other detectives
, from even forensic serviceshey, we found a knife or we
found a gun, so you want to seeif there's any of those type of
wounds on the body.
So, while you're getting thatinformation, you're also
assisting them and letting themknow.
Now the medical examiner alsowants to know a brief background
of what happened.
You know, where was she found?
(18:04):
What do we know about the case?
So you need to be there to givethe medical examiner the
background.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
So the autopsy was performed.
At this point you still don'tknow.
It's her or do you suspect it'sher?
No, we do not know it's her.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
That's a long process in itself, so we're still going
to investigate like she's amissing person, but we also want
to treat it like it's ahomicide and it may be her.
It's confusing but, yes, that'sthe way you have to approach
the situation.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
So the medical examiner's job is to do what?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Determine the cause and manner of death.
And was that done?
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Yes, it was, and do you know what the cause and
manner of death of Haley McConeit?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
was strangulation, it was murder.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
You're looking for particular injuries in
strangulation, I guess, and wereyou there at the autopsy?
I was.
Did they find those kind ofinjuries to the throat?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
It was consistent.
Yes, it was very difficult inher stage of decomposition.
The medical examiner did agreat job in assisting us in
that.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Would that be something that you release to
the media?
Do the police usually talkabout that?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
No, they don't.
That's a very important partand the reason we don't talk
about that is because in thehomicide unit, several of us and
it probably should be made aregulator or rule, you would say
to have people with informants,information, so to make sure
that you're getting the honestand right information, even from
(19:46):
a witness, if they come forward, you want to be able to know
that those witnesses that giveyou that information is actually
true, and the only way to knowthat is to keep some of the
information.
you know that only the personthat murdered that victim, and
you know that that's true theperson that murdered that victim
(20:08):
, and you know that that's true.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Well, when you saw this victim lying there I'm
assuming there were did you know?
At that point, were youthinking, well, this is
strangulation, or are there anyvisible knife wounds or gunshot
wounds?
Or are you just thinking, well,they're just laying there,
there's no visible wounds?
What could have happened?
There has to be foul play ifit's under a log right.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Right.
Based on the way she waspositioned, we knew it was
probably a homicide.
But again, you want to be safebecause anything you document,
anything you say, will come backlater on if it goes to trial.
So what we did is we alwaysbase it on what the medical
examiner says and what the deathcertificate says from the
(20:47):
coroner.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
So you still you're attending this autopsy and you
don't know this is her, butmaybe you think it kind of is
Sure.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Sure we do.
And so we go back to theneighborhood, talk to the
parents and start getting a listof Haley's friends.
Talk to the parents and startgetting a list of Haley's
friends, and then from theinterviews of the friends.
We start backtracking what shewas doing 10 days Because we
don't know.
Remember, we don't know whenthe murder occurred yet.
So we have to get at least 10days of timeline of what Haley
(21:18):
McCone has done.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
What did you find out from the friends?
Speaker 2 (21:24):
That they hadn't seen her, that she hadn't been at
school.
We went through her locker andbrought her books back and they
had no answers for us.
They hadn't seen her.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
So were you positive at this point?
This was her that you attendedthe autopsy on.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
No, no, it takes several.
That's one thing I wanted toexplain to people.
It's not like you see on TVwhere at a commercial break,
you're going to get DNA resultson your victim.
It takes anywhere from six tonine months to get definite
confirmation of who your victimwill be.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Wow, so you're processing this murder of
someone that maybe is her, butyou don't know.
But then you're also stilllooking for the missing child.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Right.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
So then what happens?
Speaker 2 (22:05):
So we get information from.
Well, let me back up.
We go to some services thatthey have in the park hoping
that we may see somebodysuspicious there, because
they're having a ceremony forHaley.
They're assuming it's her.
Ceremony for Haley, they'reassuming it's her, and so we
have all the homicide detectivesout kind of mingling, watching
(22:28):
on the outskirts for anybodysuspicious.
So we start taking photographsof people we want to interview.
We start taking license platenumbers and we start knocking
people On college kids doorsmore, because now we want to
start taking DNA just in caselater, if she was sexually
assaulted or there's DNA on herclothing that she has left on
(22:50):
that, we want to have some typeof evidence to compare that to.
So that's that was our nextstep.
We started asking people ifthey would even provide a swab
of their DNA.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Were they open to that?
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Somewhere.
Yes, it was surprising.
Yes, we'd even provide a swabof their DNA.
Were they open to thatSomewhere?
Yes, it was surprising.
Yes, and I think Lexington, thecommunity really wants answers
to.
If they know a teenager hasbeen harmed, they're going to do
whatever they can for thecommunity to determine who did
this, who committed this crime,and those that, don't worry,
they don't have a problem withproviding their DNA.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
So you go canvassing the area, the dorms, and did
anything turn up?
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Nothing.
We even put out on social mediathat she was last seen in this
area and we made new posters andwe added the bike to the
posters because we didn't have abike.
So we were trying to look forthe bike too, in hopes that it
would have evidence on it DNAevidence and so we even put
(23:50):
posters up with the bike, hopingthat somebody would call Crime
Stopper Somebody, some studentfrom school may have information
.
So we would go to schools, hangthe poster up.
We still had no responses.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Still banging your head against a wall.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
So how long did that go on, that you had nothing?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Several months actually, we kept on
investigating this case probablyhalf a day, every day.
We concentrated on Haley's casealone and remember we're also
getting other cases in becausethis happened in May.
And remember we're also gettingother cases in because this
happened in May.
And now several months havegone by and we don't have
(24:28):
anything.
All the resources we're usingwith KSP Lab, with the FBI,
we're calling a thing calledVICAP and that's Violent Index
Offenders Program and we'regiving them information to see
if they have any like murders inany place across the country
that they can compare it to.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Can you talk more about VICAP and what that's like
?
When you talk about givinginformation, how does that
happen and how often does thathappen?
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, thank you, dave .
I made it sound easy, but it'sreally a thick book that you
have to fill out.
It talks about the victim andthat's what's called a
victimology and they kind ofrate what type of victim she
would be a high risk, mediumrisk or a low risk.
You give them all thebackground on her family members
, on her friends.
You fill out in detail what thecrime scene looked like, what
(25:17):
her grades were, anything aboutthe victim, and then you provide
all details about the crimescene so they can compare that
crime scene with others acrossthe country.
Now we used to joke and say allinformation in, nothing coming
out, because once you send thatbook in you don't hear from the
FBI unless something similar.
So it's a good program, but ifthey don't have anything similar
(25:39):
, you're not going to get anyinformation back.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
It's probably the best shot at police agencies
coordinating with each other onmajor crime, because that's a
big criticism sometimes is thatI've always thought that that's
probably the best shot you'vegot at picking up a serial
offender.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Right, it was before.
Then it was more archaic, whereyou would go to a conference,
talk to other detectives, passeach other a card.
Hey, do you have this type ofcrime?
Hey, this is the issues we'reseeing, and that with ICAP that
saves you all that problem andthen you can just go to happy
hour at the conventions insteadof worrying about networking
Instead of worrying about thosepesky details, right?
Speaker 3 (26:14):
So you submit all this data and you wait, and you
wait.
So now, how long have you beenwaiting before?
Well, before you find out it's,affirmatively her, and before
you get a break.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
We find out it's her in November.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
So much 1999.
Yes Wow.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
But we're working under the assumption it's her
the whole time.
It's not like it's us.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
That's correct.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Can you recall, were there any kind of leads, even
small ones, coming in at thattime or anything that generated
it?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Were there any kind of leads, even small ones coming
in at that time or anythingthat generated it.
Well, so you have to thinkabout suspects at that point.
When you have this kind ofcrime scene Now, we have to
think about suspects and at thebeginning from your crime scene
that day forward, everybody's asuspect that knows Haley McCone.
So the next thing we want to do, since we're not receiving any
information, is theory usuallyis let's start with family
(27:06):
members and work our way out,because family members know
Haley, right, sure?
So we do a family background,we start looking at all the
family members and there is somesuspect in the family member
tree, some suspect in the familymember tree, and we interview
(27:26):
extended family, probably threeor four times, because we really
feel like this may be theperson.
He gives us signs during theinterviews that he's hiding
something.
We don't know what it is, so westill want to go at him.
So we're going to work aroundhim, since he's not being
forthcoming with his information.
So we're going to go ahead andcheck out all warrants.
We're going to find out wherehe lived.
If he didn't live in Lexington,we're going to find out any
(27:48):
history we can.
If it's out of state, we'regoing to try to find any
information we can use during aninterview.
That makes him uncomfortable,so much so that he wants to get
us off his chest and away fromhis house or out of the
interview room, whichever placewe interview, and away from his
house or out of the interviewroom, whichever place we
interview.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
And nothing, nothing, not a thing he was cleared.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I think before we could decide he was cleared,
other things happened in thecase that started moving the
case forward very rapidly.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
So you interviewed this person, extended family
member.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
And then, when did your break come?
How long after?
Something presented itself,january in 2000.
Wow yeah, happy New Year.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Hey, you know there's more to this story, so go find
the next episode and listen.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
The Murder Police Podcast is hosted by Wendy and
David Lyons and was created tohonor the lives of crime victims
, so their names are neverforgotten.
It is produced, recorded andedited by David Lyons, where you
(28:58):
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Speaker 3 (29:38):
Lock it down, Judy.
If you have been looking for a realistic true
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Get ready for true crime withreal detectives.
On the Murder Police podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
So we got called because it was just early in the
evening, late afternoon, 4.35.
We got a call that a body wasfound by a young boy walking his
dog and the dog led the youngboy over to a smell.
The young man and the dog wentback to his father and the
father came back and noticed thesmell so he contacted the
(00:32):
police.
And that is when we respondedand discovered that it was Haley
McCone, and that was 10 dayslater.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Warning the podcast you're about to listen to may
contain graphic descriptions ofviolent assaults, murder and
adult language.
Listener discretion is advised.
Welcome to the Murder PolicePodcast, the Murder of Haley
McCone, part 1 of 3, with yourhosts Wendy and David Lyons,
chris Schoonover and Ray the DALarson.
Hey, chris, thank you forjoining us.
(01:22):
How are you today?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I'm doing well.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
And Ray.
Speaker 4 (01:27):
I'm just tap dancing.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
And David, how are you doing over there?
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Doing fantastic.
I'm excited to go through thisone.
This was an amazing case to bea part of.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Chris, why don't you start with telling us a little
bit about yourself?
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Okay, Since I'm really old, I'll start with my
military career, so it doesn'ttake me all the way back to
infant stage with Moses.
I was in the United States Armyand while I was in there in the
United States Army I was acriminal investigator, a special
agent with the CriminalInvestigative Division.
We investigated felonies, allthe felonies that were
(01:59):
associated with the military andthe US government.
We also had investigations offthe military base if they had a
nexus to the government.
Then I left the military andgot hired by the Bureau of
Prisons where I was assigned tothe special investigative
section where we investigatedinmates that would have a plot
to escape.
We would investigate any typeof scams that the inmates came
(02:22):
up with with family members.
We'd listen to their phonecalls, look into their bank
accounts and we also, if we hadrumor that family members were
bringing in narcotics into thefacility, we'd call K-9 and do
those type of investigations.
While I was with the Bureau ofPrisons I applied with the
Lexington Police Department, gothired in 1996.
I applied with the LexingtonPolice Department, got hired in
(02:43):
1996.
Three weeks after myprobationary period I got moved
up to homicide and was assignedto David Lyons and that's how we
met.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
Wow, a lot of experience there.
I don't think that we're goingto get much by you.
Well, chris, what is this?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
case about this Haley McCone case.
This case is a unique casebecause it's mid-America.
Typical 13-year-old rebelliousteenager and, of course,
middle-class parents reportedtheir child missing and the
Lexington Police Department usedevery resource in trying to
locate her.
We did posters, we did doorknocks, neighborhood canvases,
(03:26):
met people in the park at thesame time.
We thought she went missing.
We used all our resources andgot nowhere.
It was quite an experience todo this investigation with other
detectives and use all theresources we could to find her.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Wow, so has this case been the subject of any other
true crime reporting?
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yes, there's been several major networks that have
done several stories on thesuspect and there's been a
couple of books that have beenwritten about the suspect.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
Okay, well, where and when did this homicide occur?
Speaker 2 (04:00):
This homicide occurred in Lexington, kentucky,
in Fayette County.
It was off.
If anybody knows where theUniversity of Kentucky is
located of course the basketballmecca of the world, but it's
just several blocks off of themain campus.
The main thoroughfare that goesthrough there is called
Nicholasville Road.
Her family lived a couple ofblocks off of Elizabeth Park.
(04:24):
Their house backed up to thepark.
She was reported missing by afamily member from Floral Park
and then Elizabeth Park is rightbehind their house, so that's
where it occurred.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Okay, so can you tell us about Haley?
I know she's 13.
What more can you tell us abouther?
Sure, I know, we know she's 13.
What more can you?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
tell us about her.
Sure, If you can think of atypical 13-year-old, smoking,
rebellious teenager that wantsto do everything opposite that
her parents want her to do,that's Haley.
She was a frequent runaway, andwhat I mean by runaway is her
family was middle class but they, like any other family, had
hidden secrets.
They had issues with otherrelatives that nobody knew, and
(05:08):
to escape that, Haley would geton her bike, which became very
important in the case.
Later she would get on her bikeand she would ride across town
or to a friend's house and stayovernight Across town I'm
talking a grandparent and shewould stay overnight and not
tell her parents.
So they would report hermissing because of course,
there's truancy laws and if shedidn't show up to school the
(05:29):
next day her parents would be introuble.
So they would report hermissing.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
So this wasn't really untypical that she was missing
yet again.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
No, they did what any other parent would do.
They waited several hours andthey reported her missing.
And days went by and that'swhen all of us, including David
we started using our resourcesposters.
We even use family members tohelp us hang posters on
telephone poles and storefronts.
We do door knocks neighborhoodcanvases is what we call them.
(06:02):
And we kind of discovered thatwe weren't doing neighborhood
canvases correctly until Davidcame up with a method that,
since it was a college campus,we forgot that when we talk to
somebody at the front doorthey're not the only people
living in that house.
So we started revamping theforms and say how many people
live in this home?
(06:22):
How many cars are parked herenormally, what are the hours
that people are working orcoming back and forth to school?
Normally we would knock on thedoor and say did you hear
anything unusual?
Have you seen anything unusual?
Any cars look out of place.
But this changed our wholeapproach on doing neighborhood
canvases to try to locate Haley.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yeah, he's pretty good about changing things to
fit his agenda usually andthey're good for the most part.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Sure, he got promoted through the ranks.
He knows what he's doing.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Well, so I guess take us back to the beginning.
Did you just get a call?
Is it just typical that yourphone rings and somebody says,
hey, there's a missing child?
What were you doing and how didyou first find out about this?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
In the homicide unit in Lexington.
I'll give you a littlebackground about the way things
are done.
Usually a detective is on callAt that time it was for seven
days during the week and thatdoesn't mean the person or the
detective on call actually isgoing to be the lead in that
investigation.
They get the original call,they make an assessment of the
(07:24):
call, how many people are needed, and at that time we had a rule
All the homicide detectives aregoing to respond.
So we got called because it wasjust early in the evening, late
afternoon, 435.
We got a call that a body wasfound by a young boy walking his
dog and the dog led the youngboy over to a smell.
(07:44):
The young man and the dog wentback to his father and the
father came back and noticed thesmell.
So he contacted the police andthat is when we responded and
discovered that it was HaleyMcCone, and that was 10 days
later after she was reportedmissing.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
So prior to this, you're just thinking you're
looking for still a missingchild and we're just still
looking and she still hasn'tcome back and nobody's seen her.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Right, we don't know if this is Haley.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
So at still hasn't come back and nobody's seen her.
Right, we don't know if this ishayley, so at this point you're
just still searching for her.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
And now a call comes in that hey, there's a body
right right, so do you go there?
Speaker 3 (08:19):
or did you actually go there, or how did that happen
?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
right, so the on-call detective is going to be the
lead detective for that time.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Seven days.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Right, Because they are going.
A lot of things happensimultaneously.
You have to have somebody atthe crime scene to guide the
forensic services unit in caseyou need them to collect
something.
He also, or she also, has tomake the decision on who needs
to be called the corner Anybodyfrom KSP with the lab, if you
(08:51):
would like.
For instance, we did use EmilyCraig, who's world-renowned in
pathology, and she came andhelped us collect evidence.
So the person needs to decideto call Emily or KSP.
Also any of the supervisorsthat need to be notified,
because that's very important,and all the other detectives get
assigned a job neighborhoodcanvas, like I said.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Chris, let me ask you a question.
You say your body was found 10days after reported missing and
an odor took the dog to thatspot.
What kind of a condition is abody in after it's been dead and
exposed for 10 days?
That's an interesting question.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
What happens is, depending on the temperature of
the surrounding area, a body cango through various stages of
decomposition, depending on alsothe environment.
With the animals maggots flies.
If you have coyotes, any kindof wild dogs that walk through
the woods, they can drag bodyparts, any kind of evidence,
(09:57):
they can drag that away.
Now going back to the heat orthe temperature, sometimes if
it's colder, then the bodydecomposes slower.
So it's very interesting andagain, I'll save that for Emily
Craig if you ever have her onyour show, she will collect
those maggots.
And what's very interesting isshe can freeze those maggots and
(10:18):
from what stage those maggotsare in growth.
She can approximate how longthe body has been placed there
or laying in that position.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Can you talk more about specifically where her
body was found and what kind ofconditions were there at that
site?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Sure.
So in Kentucky in the month ofMay it becomes very hot.
Anytime after April you'regoing to get heat.
And it is in a wooded area.
At the back of that parkthere's tall trees, hedges, and
there's also a railroad trackthat runs through that
neighborhood.
At the rear of that park thereis a trail, a walking trail.
(10:54):
It's dirt, dead trees laying onboth sides of the trail, and
when we got to the scene therewere dead leaves, a log, and
until you moved the leaves youcould not see Haley's body at
all.
So once that was left and moved, then you could see that of
(11:17):
course maggots had been involved, the stage of decomposition.
But you could tell that therewas no shirt and just her shorts
were on her.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
So you get there and you go to this walking trail and
you see the body there, andwhat do you do at that point?
Did a light bulb go off in yourhead and you think maybe this
is her, because I know she livesright there, or were you just
thinking this is another victimin 1999?
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Right, regardless of what people think about
detectives common sense itreally plays into a huge part of
what we do.
So, yeah, you can't assumeanything, because your final
goal is to make this a properscene, to follow all the rules,
because you want a conviction inthe case at the very end.
(12:07):
So you want to follow the rulesvery carefully.
So you're not going to assumeit's Haley.
But we have a good feeling.
I mean common sense.
Her house backs up to this park.
She's been missing.
We haven't had any otherreports of missing females since
Haley's been missing.
And of course, we start goingand asking the family give us
(12:28):
some particulars about does shehave tattoos?
Does she have any broken bones?
Because when that body goes toautopsy they're going to know
any kind of scar tissue, anykind of bones that have been
broken and rehealed, any kind ofdental work, anything like that
.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
That can identify if it's hailed Any distinguished
marks on her.
Yes, so you got there andthere's this female.
And then what did you do?
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Well, we called the rest of the homicide detectives
in and we decided who would dowhat.
And what's great about thehomicide unit that Dave and I
was in is you knew who had whatstrengths.
Some people were better atwriting search warrants and
getting ways into a house.
Some people were better atreading crime scenes, knowing
what evidence needed to bepicked up, and some people are
(13:17):
just better at interviewing andwalking the neighborhood and
talking to family members andexplaining to, for example,
haley's family that we aren'tsure who this is yet.
But can you help us give ussome background?
We aren't sure who this is yet,but can you help us give us
some background?
Because, remember, at thebeginning of the show I said it
was very important that shewould ride this bike.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
There was no bike there.
Oh okay, so you coordinate allthat, and then what happens?
Next you send her to thispathology.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Well, yeah, we went in to talk to her parents and
asked her all those questions Imentioned previously.
Then the forensic services unit.
We have to sit there and makesure we don't, make sure we
assist them in any kind ofinformation.
We get from the neighborhood,any new information, so they
know what they're looking forand we stay at that scene.
All the homicide detectivesstay at that scene in case
(14:10):
there's anything that needs tobe done.
And we need to go elsewhere andstart interviewing people Once
the scene is processed and it'stime to move that body.
Now I'm not talking an hour,two hours.
It takes.
If you're doing a crime sceneright, it takes anywhere from 24
hours and with respect to thedeceased person, it takes 24
(14:33):
hours or more to process thatcrime scene correctly.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Wow, so that was a long day, wasn't it?
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yes, we were out there all night actually dealing
with some of the media, becausethe media liked to go on the
railroad tracks and find otherways in and the crime scene was
taped off.
But you have to rememberthere's always an avenue if they
want to get into a scene so wewere making sure that was taken
care of and we were making sureall witnesses were covered, if
there were any why do youprotect the scene from the media
(15:02):
?
Speaker 4 (15:03):
why?
Why do you do that?
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Well, I can give you a quick reason and then I'll
give you what we would suspect.
The right reason is becauseanybody that comes into that
crime scene that doesn't haveprotective garments on ie
booties, jumpsuits, gloves isgoing to contaminate that crime
scene.
Gloves is going to contaminatethat crime scene and that's a
(15:27):
great way for a defense attorneyto go ahead and find a leak in
your investigation.
So we don't want anybody thatdoesn't belong in that crime
scene in that crime scene.
The second is it sells news.
It gives you those ratings, sothey want in there to boost
those ratings, and that's notwhat it's about.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Well, I understand, do you have any feel any
obligation to protect what'sgoing on, because subsequently
you know you're going to be awitness, absolutely, and there's
going to have to be a?
Speaker 2 (15:56):
trial Absolutely.
And a great example is if theforensic service unit is taking
photographs and in thebackground you see shoes or a
camera that's laying on arailroad track, defense attorney
is going to pick that up andthey're going to ask well, who
is this detective?
And that's a terrible thing tobe on the stand and answer those
questions.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Let me throw in too that it's important people
listening understand.
It's just not the media wedidn't allow in.
But when you're talking abouteverybody from homicide being
there, how many people fromhomicide went in that scene that
day?
Two people.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
That's it.
That's all we allow.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
So it's not just a thing with the media, it's
nobody goes in.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
That's right.
That's correct.
And you've experiencedsomething, mr Larson about.
You come up and you ask for abriefing, but you don't ever ask
to be toured back there becauseyou know the end result.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Well, I know Tim Russell, who is a great forensic
guy for the police department,would chew me out, and he has.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
So at this point you're still processing and this
person is still there.
So when you get it processedand everything's completed and
then the deceased is sent to beexamined, what happens then?
Do you just wait, Do you?
(17:14):
What happens then?
Speaker 1 (17:16):
You might want to talk about.
Does somebody from the unit goto the autopsy and why are they
there and what's that look likewhen it happens?
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Yes, the autopsy.
And why are they there andwhat's that look like when it
happens?
Yes, so, as I said before, theon-call detective and the lead
detective usually will go toFrankfurt whenever the body is
escorted up there.
They will attend the autopsy.
They take notes at the autopsy.
They also assist forensicservices unit if there's a
question, because, remember,you're getting information
constantly from other detectives, from even forensic services
(17:44):
hey, we found a knife or we's aquestion, because, remember,
you're getting informationconstantly from other detectives
, from even forensic serviceshey, we found a knife or we
found a gun, so you want to seeif there's any of those type of
wounds on the body.
So, while you're getting thatinformation, you're also
assisting them and letting themknow.
Now the medical examiner alsowants to know a brief background
of what happened.
You know, where was she found?
(18:04):
What do we know about the case?
So you need to be there to givethe medical examiner the
background.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
So the autopsy was performed.
At this point you still don'tknow.
It's her or do you suspect it'sher?
No, we do not know it's her.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
That's a long process in itself, so we're still going
to investigate like she's amissing person, but we also want
to treat it like it's ahomicide and it may be her.
It's confusing but, yes, that'sthe way you have to approach
the situation.
Speaker 4 (18:32):
So the medical examiner's job is to do what?
Speaker 2 (18:38):
Determine the cause and manner of death.
And was that done?
Speaker 4 (18:42):
Yes, it was, and do you know what the cause and
manner of death of Haley McConeit?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
was strangulation, it was murder.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
You're looking for particular injuries in
strangulation, I guess, and wereyou there at the autopsy?
I was.
Did they find those kind ofinjuries to the throat?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
It was consistent.
Yes, it was very difficult inher stage of decomposition.
The medical examiner did agreat job in assisting us in
that.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Would that be something that you release to
the media?
Do the police usually talkabout that?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
No, they don't.
That's a very important partand the reason we don't talk
about that is because in thehomicide unit, several of us and
it probably should be made aregulator or rule, you would say
to have people with informants,information, so to make sure
that you're getting the honestand right information, even from
(19:46):
a witness, if they come forward, you want to be able to know
that those witnesses that giveyou that information is actually
true, and the only way to knowthat is to keep some of the
information.
you know that only the personthat murdered that victim, and
you know that that's true theperson that murdered that victim
(20:08):
, and you know that that's true.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
Well, when you saw this victim lying there I'm
assuming there were did you know?
At that point, were youthinking, well, this is
strangulation, or are there anyvisible knife wounds or gunshot
wounds?
Or are you just thinking, well,they're just laying there,
there's no visible wounds?
What could have happened?
There has to be foul play ifit's under a log right.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Right.
Based on the way she waspositioned, we knew it was
probably a homicide.
But again, you want to be safebecause anything you document,
anything you say, will come backlater on if it goes to trial.
So what we did is we alwaysbase it on what the medical
examiner says and what the deathcertificate says from the
(20:47):
coroner.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
So you still you're attending this autopsy and you
don't know this is her, butmaybe you think it kind of is
Sure.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Sure we do.
And so we go back to theneighborhood, talk to the
parents and start getting a listof Haley's friends.
Talk to the parents and startgetting a list of Haley's
friends, and then from theinterviews of the friends.
We start backtracking what shewas doing 10 days Because we
don't know.
Remember, we don't know whenthe murder occurred yet.
So we have to get at least 10days of timeline of what Haley
(21:18):
McCone has done.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
What did you find out from the friends?
Speaker 2 (21:24):
That they hadn't seen her, that she hadn't been at
school.
We went through her locker andbrought her books back and they
had no answers for us.
They hadn't seen her.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
So were you positive at this point?
This was her that you attendedthe autopsy on.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
No, no, it takes several.
That's one thing I wanted toexplain to people.
It's not like you see on TVwhere at a commercial break,
you're going to get DNA resultson your victim.
It takes anywhere from six tonine months to get definite
confirmation of who your victimwill be.
Speaker 3 (21:55):
Wow, so you're processing this murder of
someone that maybe is her, butyou don't know.
But then you're also stilllooking for the missing child.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Right.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
So then what happens?
Speaker 2 (22:05):
So we get information from.
Well, let me back up.
We go to some services thatthey have in the park hoping
that we may see somebodysuspicious there, because
they're having a ceremony forHaley.
They're assuming it's her.
Ceremony for Haley, they'reassuming it's her, and so we
have all the homicide detectivesout kind of mingling, watching
(22:28):
on the outskirts for anybodysuspicious.
So we start taking photographsof people we want to interview.
We start taking license platenumbers and we start knocking
people On college kids doorsmore, because now we want to
start taking DNA just in caselater, if she was sexually
assaulted or there's DNA on herclothing that she has left on
(22:50):
that, we want to have some typeof evidence to compare that to.
So that's that was our nextstep.
We started asking people ifthey would even provide a swab
of their DNA.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Were they open to that?
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Somewhere.
Yes, it was surprising.
Yes, we'd even provide a swabof their DNA.
Were they open to thatSomewhere?
Yes, it was surprising.
Yes, and I think Lexington, thecommunity really wants answers
to.
If they know a teenager hasbeen harmed, they're going to do
whatever they can for thecommunity to determine who did
this, who committed this crime,and those that, don't worry,
they don't have a problem withproviding their DNA.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
So you go canvassing the area, the dorms, and did
anything turn up?
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Nothing.
We even put out on social mediathat she was last seen in this
area and we made new posters andwe added the bike to the
posters because we didn't have abike.
So we were trying to look forthe bike too, in hopes that it
would have evidence on it DNAevidence and so we even put
(23:50):
posters up with the bike, hopingthat somebody would call Crime
Stopper Somebody, some studentfrom school may have information
.
So we would go to schools, hangthe poster up.
We still had no responses.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Still banging your head against a wall.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
So how long did that go on, that you had nothing?
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Several months actually, we kept on
investigating this case probablyhalf a day, every day.
We concentrated on Haley's casealone and remember we're also
getting other cases in becausethis happened in May.
And remember we're also gettingother cases in because this
happened in May.
And now several months havegone by and we don't have
(24:28):
anything.
All the resources we're usingwith KSP Lab, with the FBI,
we're calling a thing calledVICAP and that's Violent Index
Offenders Program and we'regiving them information to see
if they have any like murders inany place across the country
that they can compare it to.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Can you talk more about VICAP and what that's like
?
When you talk about givinginformation, how does that
happen and how often does thathappen?
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, thank you, dave .
I made it sound easy, but it'sreally a thick book that you
have to fill out.
It talks about the victim andthat's what's called a
victimology and they kind ofrate what type of victim she
would be a high risk, mediumrisk or a low risk.
You give them all thebackground on her family members
, on her friends.
You fill out in detail what thecrime scene looked like, what
(25:17):
her grades were, anything aboutthe victim, and then you provide
all details about the crimescene so they can compare that
crime scene with others acrossthe country.
Now we used to joke and say allinformation in, nothing coming
out, because once you send thatbook in you don't hear from the
FBI unless something similar.
So it's a good program, but ifthey don't have anything similar
(25:39):
, you're not going to get anyinformation back.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
It's probably the best shot at police agencies
coordinating with each other onmajor crime, because that's a
big criticism sometimes is thatI've always thought that that's
probably the best shot you'vegot at picking up a serial
offender.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Right, it was before.
Then it was more archaic, whereyou would go to a conference,
talk to other detectives, passeach other a card.
Hey, do you have this type ofcrime?
Hey, this is the issues we'reseeing, and that with ICAP that
saves you all that problem andthen you can just go to happy
hour at the conventions insteadof worrying about networking
Instead of worrying about thosepesky details, right?
Speaker 3 (26:14):
So you submit all this data and you wait, and you
wait.
So now, how long have you beenwaiting before?
Well, before you find out it's,affirmatively her, and before
you get a break.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
We find out it's her in November.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
So much 1999.
Yes Wow.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
But we're working under the assumption it's her
the whole time.
It's not like it's us.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
That's correct.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Can you recall, were there any kind of leads, even
small ones, coming in at thattime or anything that generated
it?
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Were there any kind of leads, even small ones coming
in at that time or anythingthat generated it.
Well, so you have to thinkabout suspects at that point.
When you have this kind ofcrime scene Now, we have to
think about suspects and at thebeginning from your crime scene
that day forward, everybody's asuspect that knows Haley McCone.
So the next thing we want to do, since we're not receiving any
information, is theory usuallyis let's start with family
(27:06):
members and work our way out,because family members know
Haley, right, sure?
So we do a family background,we start looking at all the
family members and there is somesuspect in the family member
tree, some suspect in the familymember tree, and we interview
(27:26):
extended family, probably threeor four times, because we really
feel like this may be theperson.
He gives us signs during theinterviews that he's hiding
something.
We don't know what it is, so westill want to go at him.
So we're going to work aroundhim, since he's not being
forthcoming with his information.
So we're going to go ahead andcheck out all warrants.
We're going to find out wherehe lived.
If he didn't live in Lexington,we're going to find out any
(27:48):
history we can.
If it's out of state, we'regoing to try to find any
information we can use during aninterview.
That makes him uncomfortable,so much so that he wants to get
us off his chest and away fromhis house or out of the
interview room, whichever placewe interview, and away from his
house or out of the interviewroom, whichever place we
interview.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
And nothing, nothing, not a thing he was cleared.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
I think before we could decide he was cleared,
other things happened in thecase that started moving the
case forward very rapidly.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
So you interviewed this person, extended family
member.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
And then, when did your break come?
How long after?
Something presented itself,january in 2000.
Wow yeah, happy New Year.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
Hey, you know there's more to this story, so go find
the next episode and listen.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
The Murder Police Podcast is hosted by Wendy and
David Lyons and was created tohonor the lives of crime victims
, so their names are neverforgotten.
It is produced, recorded andedited by David Lyons, where you
(28:58):
will find show notes,transcripts, information about
our presenters and a link to theofficial Murder Police Podcast
merch store, where you canpurchase a huge variety of
Murder Police Podcast swag.
We are also on Facebook,instagram and YouTube, which is
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Just search for the MurderPolice Podcast and you will find
(29:20):
us.
If you have enjoyed thispodcast, please subscribe for
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Speaker 3 (29:38):
Lock it down, Judy.
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