December 10, 2025 • 21 mins
The investigation begins to heat up as now Acting Interim Chief Taylor Branigan takes the lead on the case, and applies pressure to Margaret Mandragora-Jones. Teddy’s machinations against his sister come to light. Taylor uncovers the surprising news that Margaret and Teddy Putnam, whom she earlier described as being, “As thick as a glacier with a thyroid condition,” have become romantically involved. Meanwhile, Shady Grove’s mayor, Carl Lyons, leverages the pandemic funds for a new town hall.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Charlie Incarica (00:01):
Before we kick off today's episode, I should
let you know one of our sponsorshas withdrawn its ads from our
podcast due to what they deemedunflattering coverage of their
restaurant.
But my primary responsibilityisn't to any company.
It's to you, the listeners, andof course, to the victims of
this unspeakable tragedy that Ispeak to you about every week.
Upholding their dignity in theinterest of pursuing justice
(00:24):
will always be the guidingprinciple here on the Murderer
Killings.
That's why we urge you to visitthemurdererkillings.com to
check out our merch, where wehave t-shirts, hoodies, aprons,
and very large kitchen magnets,with the phrase The Murderer
Killings, a podcast upholdingthe dignity of the Shady Grove
murder victims while pursuingjustice for them, as well as
(00:45):
coasters, coffee mugs, and waterbottles that, due to size
restrictions, simply have agraphic of a cup of pudding with
a knife sticking up through it.
And now, on with episode 5.
In April 2020, the world wasfacing an unprecedented pandemic
(01:08):
and had all but shut down.
But for Shady Grove, there wasextra cause for fear and
(01:44):
confusion.
The four murders that hadhappened there in the last
month.
And because of the lockdown,the residents believed the
killer or killers could verywell still be in their area or
areas.
One of those residents wasTaylor Branigan.
Although Tommy Ebner's name wasstill stenciled on the chief of
police's door, he was also oneof the murder victims, which at
(02:06):
minimum presented a clearconflict of interest.
So Taylor Branigan now had totake over.
The city council had called anemergency session two days after
Ebner's death to officiallyappoint her.
But a bitter debate quicklyensued about whether she should
be appointed as acting chief orinterim chief.
After weeks of tensenegotiations, Mayor Carl Lyons
(02:27):
crafted a compromise, and in theend, they agreed to appoint her
acting interim chief.
To her credit, Branigan didn'tallow the political quagmire to
distract her.
Taylor Branigan (02:38):
What was worse was that the town was shut down,
and everyone started workingvirtually, and based on that,
the police force lobbied to workremotely too.
Mayor Lyons, because he neededtheir support in the upcoming
mayoral election, approved it.
Charlie Incarica (02:51):
So you really had a lot working against you.
Taylor Branigan (02:54):
Yes, and no.
In some ways, it was morefreeing.
And this was a police forceentirely trained by Tommy
Hebner, so I don't think it wasnecessarily a crippling blow.
Charlie Incarica (03:04):
Right, but were you being given enough
resources to handle the case?
Taylor Branigan (03:08):
That was a little bit more complicated.
Mayor Lyons (03:11):
As I'm sure you can imagine, it was a particularly
challenging time.
This is Carl Lyons, ShadyGrove's mayor.
The effects of the COVID viruswere horrifying.
The paperwork was justoverwhelming.
We had to requisition for allsorts of crap.
APE for everyone.
And that stuff completelyexploded our small town's budget
(03:33):
for, you know, health andpublic safety and shit.
About the budget.
Charlie Incarica (03:37):
Um there's been a lot of speculation that
the town didn't spend nearlyenough on resources to help with
the murders.
Mayor Lyons (03:45):
I think you'll find the people who may be saying
that are not on the inside andso are just speculating.
Charlie Incarica (03:51):
Taylor Branigan's the person who's most
frequently leveled thosecharges.
Mayor Lyons (03:55):
Exactly.
And when I say people withoutinside knowledge, I mean inside
knowledge of a budget meeting.
But it's another thing entirelyto be inside the room hashing
out the budget, trying to seehow the sausage gets made.
And believe me, this was atotal sausage party.
(04:16):
I mean, there were good peopleon both sides.
Charlie Incarica (04:18):
But for someone citing a tight budget as
the reason he didn't give thepolice many resources, it's hard
to understand the council'sfirst major decision after the
lockdown demolishing the townhall and constructing a massive
new building to replace it.
Mayor Lyons (04:32):
Yeah, but what most people don't understand is
building the new town hall was adirect result of the pandemic
restrictions.
Charlie Incarica (04:42):
How so?
Mayor Lyons (04:43):
Well, the government demanded there be
always six feet betweeneveryone.
Our old town hall simply lackeda size to accommodate that.
We needed this new building tostay in compliance.
Charlie Incarica (04:55):
Yeah, that seems a little hard to believe,
frankly, especially with thefact so many of the staff were
now working from home.
Mayor Lyons (05:02):
Well, there was so much confusion in those early
days about what regulations weregoing to stay in place for how
long and such a situation was itwas very fluid at that time.
Charlie Incarica (05:13):
Wouldn't that argue against committing so much
money to build a completely newstructure?
Mayor Lyons (05:17):
Oh, well, now you're getting into numbers.
And I'm not a numbers guy, butthe numbers don't lie.
Charlie Incarica (05:24):
The plan for a new town hall also made
Branagan's job harder.
Taylor Branigan (05:28):
Yeah.
I had to waste two dayscordoning off the town hall for
its demolition.
Maryland's wanted the buildingimplosion to be a big event.
He somehow tried to make italso a tribute to the murder
victims.
He urged the town to come out,stand six feet apart, and hold a
candlelight vigil, even thoughthe demolition was at 10 30 in
the morning.
And because most of the policewere working from home, I had to
(05:49):
set up iPads on music standsaround the perimeter about every
ten feet or so.
So an officer could tell thecrowd to stand back via Zoom.
Charlie Incarica (05:59):
Sounds incredibly time consuming.
Taylor Branigan (06:01):
And stupid.
Charlie Incarica (06:02):
It was undeniably both.
As a result of the demolition,the clerks working there had to
scramble to store documentsanywhere and everywhere they
could.
The police station, trunks ofcouncil members' cars, the
dugouts at the Town Hall LittleLeague field.
Estelle Hayes (06:18):
It was a logistical shit show.
They asked me if they could usea library van, but I told them
it was a fucking van filled withbooks.
I offered them a room in myhouse with the documents via
Airbnb, but at the last minutethey complained about the shower
pressure and bail.
Charlie Incarica (06:35):
In the interest of fairness, Estelle's
shower pressure is oftenproblematic.
But they were able to bail inpart because Teddy Putnam
offered to store the town'sdocuments and computers in its
newly vacant puddingapplications lab.
It was a building the size ofan airplane hangar, where Amanda
had hired teams of scientists,social workers, and eminent
(06:55):
members of the clergy to findother uses for pudding besides
eating.
Teddy had closed the programwithin minutes of Amanda's
death, largely because he saidhe was a quote, proud science
skeptic.
Estelle Hayes (07:07):
It's actually a very clever move.
Now the whole town's recordswere literally controlled by the
buttons.
Charlie Incarica (07:14):
Meanwhile, after weeks of politely being
given the brush off, Taylordecided to visit Teddy on April
28th, not finding him at home orat his gym.
In desperation, she tried hisoffice, where shockingly he was.
The following is from TaylorBranigan's police camera when
she arrived at Teddy's office.
Taylor Branigan (07:33):
Mr.
Teddy Putnam (07:33):
Putnam?
Depends on who's asking.
Taylor Branigan (07:36):
I'm acting interim chief Brannigan of the
Shady Grove Police Department.
Teddy Putnam (07:39):
Ah, I've certainly heard of your name.
Taylor Branigan (07:42):
You've also known me since about the age of
ten.
We grew up together.
You took me to prom.
Teddy Putnam (07:47):
Ah, well, that explains it.
I have a terrible memory fordates.
This uh little irregular deputyinterim chief actor showing up
and flashing your badge in frontof my employees.
You trying to get me to crack,hoping I'll be humiliated in
front of my office?
I didn't flash a badge, andthere's no one else here.
I noticed that too.
(08:08):
Is it a holiday or something?
Taylor Branigan (08:10):
The country's in a lockdown.
Teddy Putnam (08:12):
Of course.
That makes sense now.
Amanda meant so much to people.
Taylor Branigan (08:17):
No, I mean we're in a nationwide lockdown
over the pandemic.
Teddy Putnam (08:20):
Oh, of course.
That makes even more sense.
Well, what can I get you todrink?
I had a fully stocked barinstalled in my office after I
watched Mad Men, which reallymade the days fly by.
Taylor Branigan (08:33):
No, thanks.
I'm on duty.
I just have a few questionsabout your late sister.
Teddy Putnam (08:37):
Ah, Amanda.
I'm still quite broken up aboutit.
Taylor Branigan (08:44):
With all due respect, Mr.
Putnam, you're saying you'rebroken up about it at the same
time you're starting a game ofMiss Pac-Man.
Teddy Putnam (08:51):
The thing is, Miss Pac-Man was our game.
Our father left it to us, andit synthesized our strengths
beautifully.
Between Amanda's voraciousappetite for hunting and
destroying all who stood in herway, and my lifelong terror of
ghosts, it complemented the twoof us beautifully.
We fit together like hand inknife.
Taylor Branigan (09:12):
You mean hand and glove?
Teddy Putnam (09:15):
What did I say?
Taylor Branigan (09:16):
You said hand and knife.
Teddy Putnam (09:18):
What an odd thing for me to have said.
Taylor Branigan (09:21):
I just want to ask you a few simple questions.
Teddy Putnam (09:23):
Should I have my lawyer here?
Taylor Branigan (09:25):
That's certainly you're right.
Teddy Putnam (09:28):
I think it'll be okay.
These are just questions torule me out of suspicion, right?
Taylor Branigan (09:33):
A few minutes ago you said I was hoping to
make you crack.
What do you think you mightcrack over?
Teddy Putnam (09:38):
I'd like my lawyer.
Charlie Incarica (09:42):
The next time they met, Teddy's attorney Ellen
Newberry was sitting next tohim.
It's worth noting EllenNewberry is a junior partner in
the well-known international lawfirm Handley, Kelsey,
Markowitz, and Jones.
And if the name Jones soundsfamiliar, it should.
And not simply because it's oneof the most common surnames in
the English language.
It's the last name of MargaretMandragara Jones.
(10:05):
And that firm's senior partner,Tom Jones, is another name you
might find familiar, as it'salso the name of beloved
Welsh-born singer Sir Tom Jones,whose hits include such pop
classics as What's New Pussycat?
and It's Not Unusual.
But it's not that Tom Jones.
To be clear, this wasn'tanother Erica Hobbs situation,
(10:26):
in that Erica Hobbes turned outto be Erica Hobbes' mother or
Erica Hobbes' daughter,depending on which Erica Hobbes
you're using as a startingpoint.
These Tom Joneses are of norelation to one another.
But Tom Jones is related toMargaret Mandragara Jones, the
lawyer Tom Jones, not theGrammy-winning singing star.
Perhaps more importantly,however, he is Margaret's
(10:49):
father.
And that, to borrow from theother, more musically successful
Tom Jones songbook, causedacting interim chief Branigan to
think it's not, not unusual.
In other words, she becamesuspicious.
Taylor Branigan (11:04):
Not only was it obvious that Margaret and Teddy
struck up some kind ofrelationship, but it seemed
possible they were in cahoots.
Charlie Incarica (11:11):
What did you think they were in cahoots
about?
Taylor Branigan (11:13):
I wasn't sure at that point, but certainly it
seemed cahooty.
DA Theresa Nolo (11:17):
A key stumbling block in all of this is that in
the United States, the legalstandard for establishing any
level of cahootsing isexceptionally high.
Charlie Incarica (11:26):
This is Teresa Nolo, the district attorney for
Upshaw County, whosejurisdiction includes Shady
Grove, and who is among the lastmajor characters to be
introduced in this podcast.
DA Theresa Nolo (11:36):
The thing that struck me and my team is that
the Jones family had to know therelationship between Margaret
and her father would come tolight.
So why were the Joneses soeager to free Teddy Putnam from
suspicion?
Charlie Incarica (11:49):
I asked Margaret directly about this.
Margaret Mandragora-Jones (11:51):
Well, firstly, I reject the premise
of your question.
Why would we think the ShadyGrove police would be able to
make any connection betweenanything?
This is a town that investednearly $50,000 in Lederhosen
because they continuallyconfused Australia with Austria.
It's a police force that met meat the airport with a
motorcade, yet still managed toarrive late for my meeting at
Town Hall because they had notonce, but twice pulled over to
(12:14):
let each other pass.
Having said that, I don't thinkthere's anything wrong with
providing an acquaintance with apath to excellent legal
counsel.
Charlie Incarica (12:23):
Had Teddy done you any favors during your stay
in Shady Grove?
Margaret Mandragora-Jones (12:26):
Well, we became friendly during the
lockdown.
I didn't find his conversationespecially engaging, but he did
have a very large supply ofabsinthe, so I figured he was
worth knowing on some level.
Charlie Incarica (12:37):
Teddy's new lawyer immediately called for a
change of venue.
When Branigan and Nolo pointedout Teddy wasn't on trial, so
there was no court venue tochange, Newberry clarified she
was calling for a change ofvenue for the interrogation
room, claiming the color schemeof the walls in the room was a
clear Eighth Amendment violationagainst cruel and unusual
(12:58):
punishment.
DA Theresa Nolo (12:59):
This was clearly a power play, a naked
delaying tactic.
However, the actual color ofthe paint is called gulag green.
And even though we'd hung a fewcat-themed inspirational
posters, cheered up a bit, itwas still pretty grim.
So her complaint wasn't withoutmerit.
We eventually settled on theback office of a funeral parlor.
Charlie Incarica (13:20):
The following is from the interview of Teddy
Putnam.
Taylor Branigan (13:24):
Teddy, you were born on December 9th, 1972,
correct?
On the advice of my counsel, Iplead the fifth.
Sorry, quick word with myclient.
Of course.
Teddy Putnam (13:33):
Oh, I thought I thought you said that's what I'm
saying.
Oh, great.
Taylor Branigan (13:41):
And is it also true that you share your
birthday with your sister, thelate Amanda?
Teddy Putnam (13:44):
On the advice of counsel, I plead My counsel
advises me I was born on thesame day as my twin sister.
And would you say the two ofyou were close?
Very much so.
Taylor Branigan (13:55):
That's a little odd, Teddy.
Because you told the firstofficer on the scene, Sergeant
Joseph Rino, you two always sawthe world in totally opposite
ways.
Teddy Putnam (14:03):
I'm sorry, I thought you meant physically
close.
We were very physically closefor a while, especially in
utero.
I see.
Taylor Branigan (14:11):
In what year did your sister start taking an
active part in running thecompany?
Teddy Putnam (14:16):
Oh, gosh, like ten, fifteen or so years ago at
this point.
Taylor Branigan (14:20):
2008?
Teddy Putnam (14:21):
2008, 2010, something like that.
I do remember it was an evennumbered year because in even
numbered years our companyFoosball Fantasy Leagues would
hold a pure auction draft,whereas in odd-numbered years we
did what's known as a snakedraft.
Taylor Branigan (14:38):
Okay.
Within 45 minutes youofficially identifying the body
of your sister, you made fourphone calls.
For the record, I am sharingwith Mr.
Putnam and his attorney a logof his calls that morning.
The first was to the foosballwholesaler, who took the
foosball tables out of youroffices when Amanda stepped in.
The second was to anotherfoosball table distributor when
(15:00):
you discovered the firstfoosball table company had gone
out of business.
The third to MargaretMandragara Jones, and the fourth
was to the head of yourcompany's Pudding Research
Division, informing them theirdepartment was immediately
liquidated.
Teddy Putnam (15:12):
Right.
Well, I'd sent an email tosecurity ordering them to throw
the researchers off companyproperty, so I felt I owed it to
the team to let them know whythey were being, in many cases,
physically thrown off ourgrounds.
Why were you so quick to shutthat program down?
You'd known your sister wasdead less than an hour.
Amanda always valuedefficiency.
(15:33):
In a way, it was a tribute toher.
Taylor Branigan (15:36):
What did you talk to Miss Mandragara Jones
about during your phone callthat morning?
Teddy Putnam (15:41):
Well, I knew what an admirer she was of my sister
and her liquor collection.
I thought it best she'd hear itfrom me.
Did you call her regularly?
Define regularly.
Did you speak to her on aregular basis?
If that's what you mean byregularly, then yes.
Taylor Branigan (15:57):
What did you talk about?
Teddy Putnam (15:58):
Oh gosh, I mean I couldn't tell you exactly.
Just, you know, life stuff.
And sometimes I'd pick outwords and ask her to say them in
her accent, usually ones withlots of vowels like aluminum or
hello.
Did you discuss business?
Well, in a sense.
What sense?
We discussed the business ofbeing alive, of being thinking
(16:21):
feeling organisms on thisfragile blue marble most called
Earth.
Okay.
Oh, and shady grove pudding.
I almost forgot.
We talked tons about that.
Went into real detail.
She had endless questions aboutmy company.
Charlie Incarica (16:35):
Newberry immediately called an abrupt
halt to the interview.
Taylor Branigan (16:39):
So, armed with this information, I brought
Margaret back in forquestioning.
Charlie Incarica (16:43):
At the funeral parlor?
Taylor Branigan (16:45):
No.
I asked one of the few officersworking at the station to get
some paint and take care of it.
Unfortunately, Mayor Lyonscaught wind of it and denied the
expense.
So, then I had the officercheck Craigslist for anything
being given away we could use.
I should have been morehands-on, as it turns out.
Charlie Incarica (17:03):
The police interview room had wallpapered
over its unsightly paint.
But to Branigan's dismay, itwas wallpaper for a small
child's room.
Taylor Branigan (17:12):
Less than ideal, but the important thing
was to get Margaret in again.
Okay.
Margaret Mandrager Jones.
Second interview on May 3rd,2020.
Present with her is herattorney, Ellen Newberry, and
myself, acting interim chiefTaylor Branigan.
And assorted Muppets in Napies.
The interviewee is referring tothe temporary wallpaper in the
(17:33):
room.
Indeed, I am.
Margaret Mandragora-Jone (17:35):
Remind me, who are the characters on
the wall of this interview roomin your actual police station?
They're Muppet Babies, but Idon't think so.
No, agreed.
Acting Interim Chief Branigan.
I just wanted to hear you sayit for the record.
Well, I'd worry less about thewallpaper.
You mean the Muppet Babieswallpaper that you, in one of
your first command decisions asacting interim chief, ordered
(17:55):
hung in your policeinterrogation room?
Taylor Branigan (17:58):
Yes.
Margaret Mandragora-Jone (17:58):
Sorry, just clarifying.
So you want me to worry lessabout the pictures of Kermit the
Frog than what?
The Paw Patrol decals, which nodoubt festoon the inevitably
unlocked room in which you storeyour firearms?
Taylor Branigan (18:10):
I'd worry more that you claimed your former
assistant told you about themurders of March 9th, when Teddy
Putnam claims he was the onewho told you.
Margaret Mandragora-Jones (18:17):
Well, you can't be taking anything he
says seriously.
Teddy Putnam's about asreliable as a watch built by a
squirrel.
I think on balance the infantMuppets are more troubling to me
with all due respect.
Well, if you have no furtherquestions from my client, I'm
Actually, I do.
Taylor Branigan (18:32):
For the record, I am handing Miss Mandragora
Jones and her attorney a phonerecord registering a phone call
between Teddy Putnam and MissMandragara Jones that took place
between 1048 and 1122 on themorning of March 9th, 2020.
You mean to tell me you andTeddy didn't discuss his
sister's murder?
Margaret Mandragora-Jones (18:49):
I'm sure it must have come up at
some point, but we tended tofocus our conversations on
another topic.
Which was Well, it's notstrictly relevant to the murder
inquiry.
Taylor Branigan (18:59):
Why don't we make that my call?
Margaret Mandragora-Jones (19:01):
Most of our conversations, AIC
Rannigan, centered around hisasking me a series of sexually
explicit knock-knock jokes.
Taylor Branigan (19:10):
Um what?
Margaret Mandragora-Jon (19:12):
Indeed.
I feel that's the onlyappropriate reaction.
However, his X-ratedknock-knock jokes are the
closest thing to the performingarts in this perforated ulcer of
a community.
And fair play to him, some ofthem weren't half bad.
Of course, I'd been drinkingfar more absinthe than is
medically prudent, which mayhave made me less than strictly
objective on that front.
Were you and Teddy sexuallyinvolved?
My client doesn't have toanswer that.
(19:33):
I'm actually gonna side with mylawyer on this one.
Unless you can prove to me therelevance of such a question to
solving these horrible murders,which still seem to me
aggressively unsolved, I don'tfeel I have the need to comment
on my personal life any further.
Besides, think of the cartoonBabies on Your Wall.
We don't want them growing uptoo fast now, do we?
Charlie Incarica (19:54):
Margaret's reaction suggested Taylor
Branigan had struck a nerve.
Here's DA Theresa Nolo.
DA Theresa Nolo (20:01):
And though, as I said, the legal standard for
proving cahootsing with maliceaforethought is notoriously
hard, we all felt confident wewere onto something.
Charlie Incarica (20:11):
I requested a warrant to wiretap their phones,
but then Teresa Nolo was goingto share with you the surprising
twist on that story, but Ithought it was such a good twist
that I wanted to do it.
An hour after the judge allowedthe police to tap the phones of
Teddy and Margaret, the warrantwas revoked.
And it came all the way fromthe governor's mansion.
(20:34):
Why would Alice Hart hinder aninvestigation into the murder of
her daughter-in-law?
Estelle Hayes (20:41):
I've got some theories.
Charlie Incarica (20:43):
Indeed, Estelle does.
And we'll hear about them nexttime.
I'm Charles and Karika, andthis continues to be.
Before we kick off today's episode, I should
let you know one of our sponsorshas withdrawn its ads from our
podcast due to what they deemedunflattering coverage of their
restaurant.
But my primary responsibilityisn't to any company.
It's to you, the listeners, andof course, to the victims of
this unspeakable tragedy that Ispeak to you about every week.
Upholding their dignity in theinterest of pursuing justice
(00:24):
will always be the guidingprinciple here on the Murderer
Killings.
That's why we urge you to visitthemurdererkillings.com to
check out our merch, where wehave t-shirts, hoodies, aprons,
and very large kitchen magnets,with the phrase The Murderer
Killings, a podcast upholdingthe dignity of the Shady Grove
murder victims while pursuingjustice for them, as well as
(00:45):
coasters, coffee mugs, and waterbottles that, due to size
restrictions, simply have agraphic of a cup of pudding with
a knife sticking up through it.
And now, on with episode 5.
In April 2020, the world wasfacing an unprecedented pandemic
(01:08):
and had all but shut down.
But for Shady Grove, there wasextra cause for fear and
(01:44):
confusion.
The four murders that hadhappened there in the last
month.
And because of the lockdown,the residents believed the
killer or killers could verywell still be in their area or
areas.
One of those residents wasTaylor Branigan.
Although Tommy Ebner's name wasstill stenciled on the chief of
police's door, he was also oneof the murder victims, which at
(02:06):
minimum presented a clearconflict of interest.
So Taylor Branigan now had totake over.
The city council had called anemergency session two days after
Ebner's death to officiallyappoint her.
But a bitter debate quicklyensued about whether she should
be appointed as acting chief orinterim chief.
After weeks of tensenegotiations, Mayor Carl Lyons
(02:27):
crafted a compromise, and in theend, they agreed to appoint her
acting interim chief.
To her credit, Branigan didn'tallow the political quagmire to
distract her.
Taylor Branigan (02:38):
What was worse was that the town was shut down,
and everyone started workingvirtually, and based on that,
the police force lobbied to workremotely too.
Mayor Lyons, because he neededtheir support in the upcoming
mayoral election, approved it.
Charlie Incarica (02:51):
So you really had a lot working against you.
Taylor Branigan (02:54):
Yes, and no.
In some ways, it was morefreeing.
And this was a police forceentirely trained by Tommy
Hebner, so I don't think it wasnecessarily a crippling blow.
Charlie Incarica (03:04):
Right, but were you being given enough
resources to handle the case?
Taylor Branigan (03:08):
That was a little bit more complicated.
Mayor Lyons (03:11):
As I'm sure you can imagine, it was a particularly
challenging time.
This is Carl Lyons, ShadyGrove's mayor.
The effects of the COVID viruswere horrifying.
The paperwork was justoverwhelming.
We had to requisition for allsorts of crap.
APE for everyone.
And that stuff completelyexploded our small town's budget
(03:33):
for, you know, health andpublic safety and shit.
About the budget.
Charlie Incarica (03:37):
Um there's been a lot of speculation that
the town didn't spend nearlyenough on resources to help with
the murders.
Mayor Lyons (03:45):
I think you'll find the people who may be saying
that are not on the inside andso are just speculating.
Charlie Incarica (03:51):
Taylor Branigan's the person who's most
frequently leveled thosecharges.
Mayor Lyons (03:55):
Exactly.
And when I say people withoutinside knowledge, I mean inside
knowledge of a budget meeting.
But it's another thing entirelyto be inside the room hashing
out the budget, trying to seehow the sausage gets made.
And believe me, this was atotal sausage party.
(04:16):
I mean, there were good peopleon both sides.
Charlie Incarica (04:18):
But for someone citing a tight budget as
the reason he didn't give thepolice many resources, it's hard
to understand the council'sfirst major decision after the
lockdown demolishing the townhall and constructing a massive
new building to replace it.
Mayor Lyons (04:32):
Yeah, but what most people don't understand is
building the new town hall was adirect result of the pandemic
restrictions.
Charlie Incarica (04:42):
How so?
Mayor Lyons (04:43):
Well, the government demanded there be
always six feet betweeneveryone.
Our old town hall simply lackeda size to accommodate that.
We needed this new building tostay in compliance.
Charlie Incarica (04:55):
Yeah, that seems a little hard to believe,
frankly, especially with thefact so many of the staff were
now working from home.
Mayor Lyons (05:02):
Well, there was so much confusion in those early
days about what regulations weregoing to stay in place for how
long and such a situation was itwas very fluid at that time.
Charlie Incarica (05:13):
Wouldn't that argue against committing so much
money to build a completely newstructure?
Mayor Lyons (05:17):
Oh, well, now you're getting into numbers.
And I'm not a numbers guy, butthe numbers don't lie.
Charlie Incarica (05:24):
The plan for a new town hall also made
Branagan's job harder.
Taylor Branigan (05:28):
Yeah.
I had to waste two dayscordoning off the town hall for
its demolition.
Maryland's wanted the buildingimplosion to be a big event.
He somehow tried to make italso a tribute to the murder
victims.
He urged the town to come out,stand six feet apart, and hold a
candlelight vigil, even thoughthe demolition was at 10 30 in
the morning.
And because most of the policewere working from home, I had to
(05:49):
set up iPads on music standsaround the perimeter about every
ten feet or so.
So an officer could tell thecrowd to stand back via Zoom.
Charlie Incarica (05:59):
Sounds incredibly time consuming.
Taylor Branigan (06:01):
And stupid.
Charlie Incarica (06:02):
It was undeniably both.
As a result of the demolition,the clerks working there had to
scramble to store documentsanywhere and everywhere they
could.
The police station, trunks ofcouncil members' cars, the
dugouts at the Town Hall LittleLeague field.
Estelle Hayes (06:18):
It was a logistical shit show.
They asked me if they could usea library van, but I told them
it was a fucking van filled withbooks.
I offered them a room in myhouse with the documents via
Airbnb, but at the last minutethey complained about the shower
pressure and bail.
Charlie Incarica (06:35):
In the interest of fairness, Estelle's
shower pressure is oftenproblematic.
But they were able to bail inpart because Teddy Putnam
offered to store the town'sdocuments and computers in its
newly vacant puddingapplications lab.
It was a building the size ofan airplane hangar, where Amanda
had hired teams of scientists,social workers, and eminent
(06:55):
members of the clergy to findother uses for pudding besides
eating.
Teddy had closed the programwithin minutes of Amanda's
death, largely because he saidhe was a quote, proud science
skeptic.
Estelle Hayes (07:07):
It's actually a very clever move.
Now the whole town's recordswere literally controlled by the
buttons.
Charlie Incarica (07:14):
Meanwhile, after weeks of politely being
given the brush off, Taylordecided to visit Teddy on April
28th, not finding him at home orat his gym.
In desperation, she tried hisoffice, where shockingly he was.
The following is from TaylorBranigan's police camera when
she arrived at Teddy's office.
Taylor Branigan (07:33):
Mr.
Teddy Putnam (07:33):
Putnam?
Depends on who's asking.
Taylor Branigan (07:36):
I'm acting interim chief Brannigan of the
Shady Grove Police Department.
Teddy Putnam (07:39):
Ah, I've certainly heard of your name.
Taylor Branigan (07:42):
You've also known me since about the age of
ten.
We grew up together.
You took me to prom.
Teddy Putnam (07:47):
Ah, well, that explains it.
I have a terrible memory fordates.
This uh little irregular deputyinterim chief actor showing up
and flashing your badge in frontof my employees.
You trying to get me to crack,hoping I'll be humiliated in
front of my office?
I didn't flash a badge, andthere's no one else here.
I noticed that too.
(08:08):
Is it a holiday or something?
Taylor Branigan (08:10):
The country's in a lockdown.
Teddy Putnam (08:12):
Of course.
That makes sense now.
Amanda meant so much to people.
Taylor Branigan (08:17):
No, I mean we're in a nationwide lockdown
over the pandemic.
Teddy Putnam (08:20):
Oh, of course.
That makes even more sense.
Well, what can I get you todrink?
I had a fully stocked barinstalled in my office after I
watched Mad Men, which reallymade the days fly by.
Taylor Branigan (08:33):
No, thanks.
I'm on duty.
I just have a few questionsabout your late sister.
Teddy Putnam (08:37):
Ah, Amanda.
I'm still quite broken up aboutit.
Taylor Branigan (08:44):
With all due respect, Mr.
Putnam, you're saying you'rebroken up about it at the same
time you're starting a game ofMiss Pac-Man.
Teddy Putnam (08:51):
The thing is, Miss Pac-Man was our game.
Our father left it to us, andit synthesized our strengths
beautifully.
Between Amanda's voraciousappetite for hunting and
destroying all who stood in herway, and my lifelong terror of
ghosts, it complemented the twoof us beautifully.
We fit together like hand inknife.
Taylor Branigan (09:12):
You mean hand and glove?
Teddy Putnam (09:15):
What did I say?
Taylor Branigan (09:16):
You said hand and knife.
Teddy Putnam (09:18):
What an odd thing for me to have said.
Taylor Branigan (09:21):
I just want to ask you a few simple questions.
Teddy Putnam (09:23):
Should I have my lawyer here?
Taylor Branigan (09:25):
That's certainly you're right.
Teddy Putnam (09:28):
I think it'll be okay.
These are just questions torule me out of suspicion, right?
Taylor Branigan (09:33):
A few minutes ago you said I was hoping to
make you crack.
What do you think you mightcrack over?
Teddy Putnam (09:38):
I'd like my lawyer.
Charlie Incarica (09:42):
The next time they met, Teddy's attorney Ellen
Newberry was sitting next tohim.
It's worth noting EllenNewberry is a junior partner in
the well-known international lawfirm Handley, Kelsey,
Markowitz, and Jones.
And if the name Jones soundsfamiliar, it should.
And not simply because it's oneof the most common surnames in
the English language.
It's the last name of MargaretMandragara Jones.
(10:05):
And that firm's senior partner,Tom Jones, is another name you
might find familiar, as it'salso the name of beloved
Welsh-born singer Sir Tom Jones,whose hits include such pop
classics as What's New Pussycat?
and It's Not Unusual.
But it's not that Tom Jones.
To be clear, this wasn'tanother Erica Hobbs situation,
(10:26):
in that Erica Hobbes turned outto be Erica Hobbes' mother or
Erica Hobbes' daughter,depending on which Erica Hobbes
you're using as a startingpoint.
These Tom Joneses are of norelation to one another.
But Tom Jones is related toMargaret Mandragara Jones, the
lawyer Tom Jones, not theGrammy-winning singing star.
Perhaps more importantly,however, he is Margaret's
(10:49):
father.
And that, to borrow from theother, more musically successful
Tom Jones songbook, causedacting interim chief Branigan to
think it's not, not unusual.
In other words, she becamesuspicious.
Taylor Branigan (11:04):
Not only was it obvious that Margaret and Teddy
struck up some kind ofrelationship, but it seemed
possible they were in cahoots.
Charlie Incarica (11:11):
What did you think they were in cahoots
about?
Taylor Branigan (11:13):
I wasn't sure at that point, but certainly it
seemed cahooty.
DA Theresa Nolo (11:17):
A key stumbling block in all of this is that in
the United States, the legalstandard for establishing any
level of cahootsing isexceptionally high.
Charlie Incarica (11:26):
This is Teresa Nolo, the district attorney for
Upshaw County, whosejurisdiction includes Shady
Grove, and who is among the lastmajor characters to be
introduced in this podcast.
DA Theresa Nolo (11:36):
The thing that struck me and my team is that
the Jones family had to know therelationship between Margaret
and her father would come tolight.
So why were the Joneses soeager to free Teddy Putnam from
suspicion?
Charlie Incarica (11:49):
I asked Margaret directly about this.
Margaret Mandragora-Jones (11:51):
Well, firstly, I reject the premise
of your question.
Why would we think the ShadyGrove police would be able to
make any connection betweenanything?
This is a town that investednearly $50,000 in Lederhosen
because they continuallyconfused Australia with Austria.
It's a police force that met meat the airport with a
motorcade, yet still managed toarrive late for my meeting at
Town Hall because they had notonce, but twice pulled over to
(12:14):
let each other pass.
Having said that, I don't thinkthere's anything wrong with
providing an acquaintance with apath to excellent legal
counsel.
Charlie Incarica (12:23):
Had Teddy done you any favors during your stay
in Shady Grove?
Margaret Mandragora-Jones (12:26):
Well, we became friendly during the
lockdown.
I didn't find his conversationespecially engaging, but he did
have a very large supply ofabsinthe, so I figured he was
worth knowing on some level.
Charlie Incarica (12:37):
Teddy's new lawyer immediately called for a
change of venue.
When Branigan and Nolo pointedout Teddy wasn't on trial, so
there was no court venue tochange, Newberry clarified she
was calling for a change ofvenue for the interrogation
room, claiming the color schemeof the walls in the room was a
clear Eighth Amendment violationagainst cruel and unusual
(12:58):
punishment.
DA Theresa Nolo (12:59):
This was clearly a power play, a naked
delaying tactic.
However, the actual color ofthe paint is called gulag green.
And even though we'd hung a fewcat-themed inspirational
posters, cheered up a bit, itwas still pretty grim.
So her complaint wasn't withoutmerit.
We eventually settled on theback office of a funeral parlor.
Charlie Incarica (13:20):
The following is from the interview of Teddy
Putnam.
Taylor Branigan (13:24):
Teddy, you were born on December 9th, 1972,
correct?
On the advice of my counsel, Iplead the fifth.
Sorry, quick word with myclient.
Of course.
Teddy Putnam (13:33):
Oh, I thought I thought you said that's what I'm
saying.
Oh, great.
Taylor Branigan (13:41):
And is it also true that you share your
birthday with your sister, thelate Amanda?
Teddy Putnam (13:44):
On the advice of counsel, I plead My counsel
advises me I was born on thesame day as my twin sister.
And would you say the two ofyou were close?
Very much so.
Taylor Branigan (13:55):
That's a little odd, Teddy.
Because you told the firstofficer on the scene, Sergeant
Joseph Rino, you two always sawthe world in totally opposite
ways.
Teddy Putnam (14:03):
I'm sorry, I thought you meant physically
close.
We were very physically closefor a while, especially in
utero.
I see.
Taylor Branigan (14:11):
In what year did your sister start taking an
active part in running thecompany?
Teddy Putnam (14:16):
Oh, gosh, like ten, fifteen or so years ago at
this point.
Taylor Branigan (14:20):
2008?
Teddy Putnam (14:21):
2008, 2010, something like that.
I do remember it was an evennumbered year because in even
numbered years our companyFoosball Fantasy Leagues would
hold a pure auction draft,whereas in odd-numbered years we
did what's known as a snakedraft.
Taylor Branigan (14:38):
Okay.
Within 45 minutes youofficially identifying the body
of your sister, you made fourphone calls.
For the record, I am sharingwith Mr.
Putnam and his attorney a logof his calls that morning.
The first was to the foosballwholesaler, who took the
foosball tables out of youroffices when Amanda stepped in.
The second was to anotherfoosball table distributor when
(15:00):
you discovered the firstfoosball table company had gone
out of business.
The third to MargaretMandragara Jones, and the fourth
was to the head of yourcompany's Pudding Research
Division, informing them theirdepartment was immediately
liquidated.
Teddy Putnam (15:12):
Right.
Well, I'd sent an email tosecurity ordering them to throw
the researchers off companyproperty, so I felt I owed it to
the team to let them know whythey were being, in many cases,
physically thrown off ourgrounds.
Why were you so quick to shutthat program down?
You'd known your sister wasdead less than an hour.
Amanda always valuedefficiency.
(15:33):
In a way, it was a tribute toher.
Taylor Branigan (15:36):
What did you talk to Miss Mandragara Jones
about during your phone callthat morning?
Teddy Putnam (15:41):
Well, I knew what an admirer she was of my sister
and her liquor collection.
I thought it best she'd hear itfrom me.
Did you call her regularly?
Define regularly.
Did you speak to her on aregular basis?
If that's what you mean byregularly, then yes.
Taylor Branigan (15:57):
What did you talk about?
Teddy Putnam (15:58):
Oh gosh, I mean I couldn't tell you exactly.
Just, you know, life stuff.
And sometimes I'd pick outwords and ask her to say them in
her accent, usually ones withlots of vowels like aluminum or
hello.
Did you discuss business?
Well, in a sense.
What sense?
We discussed the business ofbeing alive, of being thinking
(16:21):
feeling organisms on thisfragile blue marble most called
Earth.
Okay.
Oh, and shady grove pudding.
I almost forgot.
We talked tons about that.
Went into real detail.
She had endless questions aboutmy company.
Charlie Incarica (16:35):
Newberry immediately called an abrupt
halt to the interview.
Taylor Branigan (16:39):
So, armed with this information, I brought
Margaret back in forquestioning.
Charlie Incarica (16:43):
At the funeral parlor?
Taylor Branigan (16:45):
No.
I asked one of the few officersworking at the station to get
some paint and take care of it.
Unfortunately, Mayor Lyonscaught wind of it and denied the
expense.
So, then I had the officercheck Craigslist for anything
being given away we could use.
I should have been morehands-on, as it turns out.
Charlie Incarica (17:03):
The police interview room had wallpapered
over its unsightly paint.
But to Branigan's dismay, itwas wallpaper for a small
child's room.
Taylor Branigan (17:12):
Less than ideal, but the important thing
was to get Margaret in again.
Okay.
Margaret Mandrager Jones.
Second interview on May 3rd,2020.
Present with her is herattorney, Ellen Newberry, and
myself, acting interim chiefTaylor Branigan.
And assorted Muppets in Napies.
The interviewee is referring tothe temporary wallpaper in the
(17:33):
room.
Indeed, I am.
Margaret Mandragora-Jone (17:35):
Remind me, who are the characters on
the wall of this interview roomin your actual police station?
They're Muppet Babies, but Idon't think so.
No, agreed.
Acting Interim Chief Branigan.
I just wanted to hear you sayit for the record.
Well, I'd worry less about thewallpaper.
You mean the Muppet Babieswallpaper that you, in one of
your first command decisions asacting interim chief, ordered
(17:55):
hung in your policeinterrogation room?
Taylor Branigan (17:58):
Yes.
Margaret Mandragora-Jone (17:58):
Sorry, just clarifying.
So you want me to worry lessabout the pictures of Kermit the
Frog than what?
The Paw Patrol decals, which nodoubt festoon the inevitably
unlocked room in which you storeyour firearms?
Taylor Branigan (18:10):
I'd worry more that you claimed your former
assistant told you about themurders of March 9th, when Teddy
Putnam claims he was the onewho told you.
Margaret Mandragora-Jones (18:17):
Well, you can't be taking anything he
says seriously.
Teddy Putnam's about asreliable as a watch built by a
squirrel.
I think on balance the infantMuppets are more troubling to me
with all due respect.
Well, if you have no furtherquestions from my client, I'm
Actually, I do.
Taylor Branigan (18:32):
For the record, I am handing Miss Mandragora
Jones and her attorney a phonerecord registering a phone call
between Teddy Putnam and MissMandragara Jones that took place
between 1048 and 1122 on themorning of March 9th, 2020.
You mean to tell me you andTeddy didn't discuss his
sister's murder?
Margaret Mandragora-Jones (18:49):
I'm sure it must have come up at
some point, but we tended tofocus our conversations on
another topic.
Which was Well, it's notstrictly relevant to the murder
inquiry.
Taylor Branigan (18:59):
Why don't we make that my call?
Margaret Mandragora-Jones (19:01):
Most of our conversations, AIC
Rannigan, centered around hisasking me a series of sexually
explicit knock-knock jokes.
Taylor Branigan (19:10):
Um what?
Margaret Mandragora-Jon (19:12):
Indeed.
I feel that's the onlyappropriate reaction.
However, his X-ratedknock-knock jokes are the
closest thing to the performingarts in this perforated ulcer of
a community.
And fair play to him, some ofthem weren't half bad.
Of course, I'd been drinkingfar more absinthe than is
medically prudent, which mayhave made me less than strictly
objective on that front.
Were you and Teddy sexuallyinvolved?
My client doesn't have toanswer that.
(19:33):
I'm actually gonna side with mylawyer on this one.
Unless you can prove to me therelevance of such a question to
solving these horrible murders,which still seem to me
aggressively unsolved, I don'tfeel I have the need to comment
on my personal life any further.
Besides, think of the cartoonBabies on Your Wall.
We don't want them growing uptoo fast now, do we?
Charlie Incarica (19:54):
Margaret's reaction suggested Taylor
Branigan had struck a nerve.
Here's DA Theresa Nolo.
DA Theresa Nolo (20:01):
And though, as I said, the legal standard for
proving cahootsing with maliceaforethought is notoriously
hard, we all felt confident wewere onto something.
Charlie Incarica (20:11):
I requested a warrant to wiretap their phones,
but then Teresa Nolo was goingto share with you the surprising
twist on that story, but Ithought it was such a good twist
that I wanted to do it.
An hour after the judge allowedthe police to tap the phones of
Teddy and Margaret, the warrantwas revoked.
And it came all the way fromthe governor's mansion.
(20:34):
Why would Alice Hart hinder aninvestigation into the murder of
her daughter-in-law?
Estelle Hayes (20:41):
I've got some theories.
Charlie Incarica (20:43):
Indeed, Estelle does.
And we'll hear about them nexttime.
I'm Charles and Karika, andthis continues to be.
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