December 10, 2025 • 24 mins
Branigan’s instincts start convincing her more and more that they’ve convicted the wrong person. Meanwhile, as Charlie prepares to leave Shady Grove, he starts to suspect Estelle knows more about The Murderer Killings than she’s been letting on. After a farewell dinner, a wild night of close-harmony a Capella, and a serendipitous hot-mic moment, his suspicions are confirmed. Chief Branigan weighs the limits of the law in order to pursue justice.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Charlie Incarica (00:02):
Suddenly, nothing seemed to make sense.
Why would William Hart, whostood to gain so much from
Margaret's conviction, deliver apassionate plea for mercy,
protesting that she wasn'tguilty?
What information might he havethat led him to believe in her
innocence?
And how did this documenteddweeb transform himself into
(00:25):
such an eloquent thirst trap?
Taylor Branigan (00:28):
It shook me, William's statement.
Charlie Incarica (00:30):
Taylor Branigan.
Taylor Branigan (00:32):
He had nothing to gain.
In fact, the opposite.
So, even though I still believeJones did it, I felt compelled
to try to find out why hethought she didn't, and just how
he'd become almost literally anew man since we last spoke.
Charlie Incarica (00:45):
Taylor reached out to the estranged, widowed,
and newly hot William Hart, andshe asked if they could meet,
off the record.
He said he needed to thinkabout it.
Three minutes later, his newwife Erica called back to invite
her to their home, as long asshe agreed not to tell anyone,
to come at night, and not inuniform.
Also, if she agreed to bringsome paper towels and orange
(01:08):
juice, as they were running lowon both.
Taylor Branigan (01:11):
Things started off a little strained.
Partially because of theoddness of the situation, but
also because the OJ I had boughtcontained lots of pulp instead
of some pulp, which apparentlywas a really big deal.
Anyway, things got a littlebetter once we sat down,
especially for William, butErica watched him like a hawk.
Charlie Incarica (01:30):
You mean from a great height?
Taylor Branigan (01:31):
I mean closely.
I talked to him about how hispublic speaking was different
than his conversational tone,but it turned out it wasn't.
He said forsooth at least sixtimes.
He attributed his changes toErica, who he clearly
worshipped.
What was Erica like?
Hot and cold.
She was surprisingly frank attimes, and then suddenly
(01:53):
evasive.
She admitted that she and hernow mother-in-law had arranged
this marriage to benefit both oftheir positions, but that she
and William had quickly fallendeeply in love.
When I asked William why hethought Margaret was innocent,
he'd look at Erica and she'danswer for him, but very
cryptically.
What did she say?
(02:14):
She said she couldn't revealeverything, but that she had
overheard something after heryoga class.
The studio shared a common areawith a company that sold
timeshares in Mexico on Mondaysand Wednesdays, and pills that
purported to combat memory lossand erectile dysfunction on
Tuesdays and Thursdays.
One afternoon, the company'smanager was outside on a smoke
(02:34):
break, which incensed Erica'syoga class as it was
overpowering their incense.
So Erica volunteered to speakto the woman because her yoga
instructor apparently had a realtemper.
But as she approached thewoman, she thought she overheard
the woman say, MargaretMandragara Jones, as well as the
word knife, repeatedly.
But then the woman saw Ericaand ended the call.
(02:56):
In fact, she threw the phone onthe ground and smashed it into
smithereens with the heel of hershoe.
Otherwise, she seemed friendly,and the conversation was
amicable and normal.
Except that she had asked Ericaseveral times how much of the
phone call she had heard.
Charlie Incarica (03:11):
Hardly proof of anything, though.
Taylor Branigan (03:13):
But it did sound suspicious.
Yet when I asked Erica for thename of the company, she said
she couldn't trust me yet,despite the fact we had just
spent like 20 minutes doing thatthing where you fall backwards
and people catch you.
Charlie Incarica (03:24):
Taylor wasn't the only one who felt things
were off.
The afternoon I returned toEstelle's after the sentencing.
I saw Estelle talking on thephone.
I couldn't make out what shewas saying, but she looked
overwhelmed.
Then as soon as she saw me, shelooked panic stricken and got
off the phone.
Hey, hey, Estelle.
Everything okay?
Everything's fine.
Okay.
Uh I'll just I'm gonna walk I'mgonna let myself into the uh
(03:48):
living room here.
I'm just gonna get myself adrink.
Okay.
Okay.
I'm fine.
I don't know if you wereoffering, but I'm fine.
I'd never seen Estelle like thatbefore.
And over these past months,let's just say I'd seen Estelle
most ways.
So I asked her if anything hadhappened to upset her during her
phone call.
Estelle Hayes (04:06):
Why would you think that?
Charlie Incarica (04:08):
Well, it's none of my business, but you
looked upset.
Estelle Hayes (04:11):
Well the truth is I was on the phone with my life
coach.
Charlie Incarica (04:16):
You have a life coach.
Estelle Hayes (04:17):
What the fuck is that supposed to mean?
Charlie Incarica (04:19):
Nothing.
It's just that you make it lookso effortless.
Estelle Hayes (04:23):
I know I do, honey.
But even I need a littleguidance now and then.
Charlie Incarica (04:27):
And she or he gave you some upsetting news.
Estelle Hayes (04:31):
Why do you keep thinking I was upset?
Charlie Incarica (04:32):
Because you sounded really upset, and you
kept repeating, I've gotta go,I've gotta go, in an
increasingly panicked voice as Icame in the house.
Estelle Hayes (04:39):
Oh no, that that's a life coach thing.
That's the mantra we come upwith for me.
Because I don't know if younotice this, but I don't always
go.
I mean really go for itenergetically and and
spiritually, you know?
So that mantra is how we'reworking on that issue.
Uh you hungry?
I made my world famous whiskeychicken.
Charlie Incarica (05:02):
Is that the one where you get a bucket of
hot wings and drink whiskey?
Shh.
Estelle Hayes (05:06):
It's a secret recipe.
Charlie Incarica (05:08):
I was highly skeptical about her mantra
excuse, and I was sure shewasn't being totally honest
about it being a secret recipe.
But frankly, after fourhelpings of her whiskey chicken,
I'd forgotten much of thatevening.
In fact, I only held on to thisrecording because later that
night, Estelle and I did akick-ass medley of Eye of the
Tiger and Bohemian Rhapsody.
(05:29):
We nailed the harmonies.
Still, I was willing to chalkit up to coincidence for a few
(06:01):
days until I replayed Taylor'sdescription of Erica's
description of thatconversation.
It wasn't simply what thismysterious manager woman said or
did.
It was the company she wasrunning.
It sold timeshares and pillsclaiming to cure hearing loss
and erectile dysfunction.
Products aimed at the elderly.
(06:21):
And though I believe it'sunprofessional to judge before
all the facts are in, I letmyself venture this much.
It sounded possible that thiscompany wasn't entirely
legitimate.
In other words, this woman waspossibly grifting the elderly.
Which just so happens to havebeen the passion of Amanda and
(06:42):
Teddy's long-lost mother, Tammythe Blade.
I called Taylor and shared myinsight.
Taylor Branigan (06:56):
Wow, that's shocking.
Right?
And no offense, shockinglyinsightful.
Charlie Incarica (07:02):
Thanks.
Taylor Branigan (07:03):
What was her name again?
Charlie Incarica (07:04):
All anyone knew her as was Tammy the Blade.
Oh my god.
Taylor was now in a bind.
Mayor Lyons was forced toappoint Taylor to chief after
the successful conviction ofMargaret, and she'd started to
instill a sense of purpose andprofessionalism in Shady Grove's
police force.
But now, she believed she couldhave been wrong this whole
(07:27):
time.
Yet, to admit that wouldinstantly lose her the post and
undo all the good work she wasstarting to do, like eliminating
Chief Ebner's stand your groundpolicy with Jaywalkers.
She had to secretly reopen thecase and investigate in her
spare time.
And she needed help.
I'm in.
Taylor Branigan (07:46):
What?
You're offering to help me?
Charlie Incarica (07:48):
That's what you were hinting at, right?
Taylor Branigan (07:50):
Well, uh, let's put a pin in that for a moment.
Though there is one thing Iwould like your help with.
Charlie Incarica (07:55):
Name it.
Taylor Branigan (07:56):
Send me your source on Tammy the Blade.
Charlie Incarica (08:01):
The next day, I emailed no longer acting
interim, but actual chief TaylorBranagin.
A link to a Zoom meeting withmyself and Vanessa Holmes.
Taylor Branigan (08:10):
What can you tell me about Tammy the Blade?
Vanessa Holmes (08:13):
Tamila Denuncio.
We don't know a lot, but weknow Robert Putnam met her in
Las Vegas in late 1971, whereshe was working as a topless
juggler by night.
By day she ran a rigged kinogame for the elderly at a bar
off the strip.
Robert saw her performing onenight, juggling a machete, a
flaming bowling pin, and atwo-month-old mountain lion cub,
(08:36):
and was instantly smitten.
After the show he approachedher as her burns were being
treated and told her thatdespite the fresh claw marks,
she was incredibly beautiful andthat he was obscenely rich.
She blew him off at first, butafter receiving a series of
romantic notes backstage fromhis accountant, including one
with a fifty thousand dollarcheck, she agreed to marry him.
(08:59):
After Teddy and Amanda wereborn, she realized that married
life, even in a mansion, wasn'tfor her.
Wow.
Oh, and another juicy tidbit Idug up.
Tammy may have had a lover inShady Grove.
She was seen sneaking back intoShady Grove for several years
after she'd left for Arizona.
Taylor Branigan (09:20):
But how do we even know she's still alive?
And what would her motive befor murder?
Because if she did it, and I'mstill siding with if, that means
she murdered her own daughter.
Charlie Incarica (09:30):
Vanessa went on to tell us Tammy had spent
four years in a Wyoming prisonfor wearing an I-voted sticker
when she hadn't.
And a three-year stretch inTexas for assault with a deadly
weapon.
Namely, a knife.
We signed off shortlythereafter, but all agreed to
keep in touch with any newdevelopments.
When I got home, I told Estellethe latest news, although I
(09:54):
left out the bit about Vanessa.
Estelle Hayes (09:56):
Wait, you think Tamala did this?
Charlie Incarica (09:58):
We're not sure, but we think it's worth
wait, how did you know her fullname is Tamila?
Estelle Hayes (10:04):
Because we met once, and that's how she
introduced herself.
I used to be a pretty goodjuggler back in the day, and I'd
do kids' parties sometimes andwhatnot.
And I got a gig for Teddy andAmanda's sixth birthdays.
Reporter 1 (10:16):
Oh wow.
Estelle Hayes (10:17):
You sound surprised, but I have all sorts
of talents.
I'm a Renaissance woman.
Charlie Incarica (10:22):
Because you can juggle?
Estelle Hayes (10:23):
Ever been to a Renaissance fair?
Of course you have, look atyou.
It's juggling out the ass.
What was Tamil like?
Charles, you need to focus whenyou juggle.
It was a five-minuteconversation a quarter of a
century ago.
Tamala came over to talkbecause she used to juggle a bit
too.
Charlie Incarica (10:41):
She used to juggle in Las Vegas, apparently.
Estelle Hayes (10:44):
Wait a minute.
You've got this from VanessaHolmes.
Charlie Incarica (10:49):
I'm sorry, Estelle.
Estelle Hayes (10:51):
Don't be.
I have other friends.
I have another friend your age,in fact.
Last week we did an a cappellaversion of Africa by Toto that
he said was, and I quote,fucking fire.
Charlie Incarica (11:02):
Oh yeah?
Odd, I've never heard of himthen.
Estelle Hayes (11:05):
That's because he lives in Canada.
We zoom.
We have the most fun fuckingzooms ever.
Lauren is the best.
Charlie Incarica (11:12):
You're upset.
I'm sorry.
Estelle Hayes (11:14):
I'm not.
Anyway, Vanessa's just lookingfor more drama.
Jones clearly did it.
It's crazy.
You're accusing a woman ofmurdering her own daughter.
You seem kind of protective ofTamala, Estelle.
It's the juggler's code.
Never trash a tosser.
And more than that, I don'tthink it tracks.
Anyway, I've gotta hop on theZoom with Lorne.
(11:35):
He's teaching me the metricsystem, and I'm teaching him how
to say out and about like anormal person.
It's a very rewardingrelationship.
Charlie Incarica (11:43):
I left Shady Grove the following day.
But what I hadn't realizeduntil I went back to find our
Eye of the Tiger Medley was thatmy phone kept recording for
hours without my realizing it.
I nearly deleted it.
Yet something, call itinstinct, or a hunch, or
intuition, or an inkling, orinstinct.
(12:04):
But something made me listenthrough the rest of the
recording.
Most of it was boring.
But just when I was about tostop bothering and binge some
Gilmore girls, I heard somethingthat chilled me to the bone.
You're about to hear Estelle onthe phone while I was in the
bathroom not throwing up.
Estelle Hayes (12:22):
But you're not in the clear yet.
Because the cheek thinks you'rethe one who did it.
Yes, the cheap.
No, I don't think that's racistin this context.
Well, because it's the jobtitle, I'm not referring to
Native Americans.
We don't have time for this.
But you need to, baby.
I think you have to stay whereyou are completely.
Charlie Incarica (12:46):
While I definitely did not soil myself
that night, on hearing thosewords, I very nearly did.
On the one hand, a woman I'dgrown quite attached to had been
lying to me this whole time.
On the other, I was so pumpedI'd called it right with Tammy.
On the third hand, I wasexcited I had a damning
confirmation.
(13:06):
But on the fourth, I knew I'dhave to churn Estelle in, and
that made me incredibly sad.
On the fifth hand, however, Iknew if I wanted to live up to
the promise emblazoned on theMurderer Killings shirts,
hoodies, and extra large kitchenmagnets available at
themurdererkillings.com, I hadto do what was right.
And on the sixth, I felt I hadjust broken new true crime
(13:29):
podcast ground, maybe.
So it was a six-handed problem.
Taylor Branigan (13:33):
When I heard the recording, I knew I couldn't
stay quiet.
So I drove out to Estelles atthe crack of dawn.
But she was gone.
Her van was gone.
Her mailbox was not only full,but it included both the March
and April issues of Juggler'sWorld magazine.
She had been gone for a while.
I put out an APB and called theDA's office, telling them about
(13:55):
this new evidence.
Charlie Incarica (13:56):
Newberry's appeals had been previously
rejected by the state's SupremeCourt, and despite William
Hart's increasingly vocal andoddly ornate protestations of
her innocence, most of them werenow delivered in sonnet form.
His own mother refused tointervene as governor.
The execution was set for thefollowing week.
Taylor Branigan (14:20):
It was almost as if they just wanted the whole
thing to be over with,regardless of the truth.
Charlie Incarica (14:24):
For Taylor, this left her with no other
choice.
Taylor Branigan (14:27):
I called a press conference.
Charlie Incarica (14:29):
But Shady Grove only has one newspaper,
published bi-weekly, and its onereporter never showed up.
The murderer killings were oldnews by then.
So Taylor went to Plan B.
She uploaded a video where shelaid out the case for Margaret's
innocence.
To boost her video in socialmedia algorithms, she had a
puppy and baby duck nappingtogether on a blanket in front
(14:51):
of her.
In fact, all of her accusationshad to be whispered.
But the tactic worked.
Within a day, it had receivedseveral million views.
But the DA and the governorweren't backing down.
In fact, they suspended ChiefBranigan immediately, and a
judge issued a gag order, aswell as a mandate that she post
more videos of that puppy andduckling, ideally playing
(15:12):
together.
Taylor Branigan (15:13):
It went against every instinct I had, but I
just couldn't let a woman, nomatter how lethally unpleasant,
be executed for a crime shedidn't commit.
And well, you know the rest.
Charlie Incarica (15:27):
But did I?
Yes.
Reporter 2 (15:30):
Death Row inmate Margaret Mandragora Jones,
scheduled to be executed lastnight, only made things worse
for herself by escaping from achild.
Reporter 1 (15:37):
Mandragora Jones was last seen roughly an hour
before her execution.
Guards for their own emotionalwell-being were wearing
noise-proof headphones to blockout her insults.
Charlie Incarica (15:52):
When I heard the news, I knew exactly what
had happened.
Margaret had used her enormousphysical strength and withering
put-downs to force her way outof the prison yard.
Or that's what I thought, untilfive days later, when I
received an unexpected phonecall from a burner phone,
belonging to the person whosedogged work I'd been documenting
for almost a year and a half.
Taylor Branigan (16:18):
You thought that she used her strength and
sarcasm?
Charlie Incarica (16:20):
Well, I mean it was a hypothesis.
I'd been Wait, what are yousaying?
Taylor Branigan (16:24):
I'm saying read between the lines, Charles.
Oh my god.
Didn't you find it odd that youcouldn't get a hold of me this
last week?
Charlie Incarica (16:32):
Uh, not really.
You only pick up like 10% ofthe time.
Taylor, where are you?
Taylor Branigan (16:38):
I can't say, Charles.
Charlie Incarica (16:40):
I see.
Um, are there any landmarks orstreet signs nearby?
Taylor Branigan (16:44):
No, I know where I am, but I can't say.
Charlie Incarica (16:47):
Oh, right, of course.
Uh what are you gonna do?
Taylor Branigan (16:52):
I I have to I have to find a real killer.
And Margaret is if I answerthat question, they can argue
that's proof I helped herescape.
Charlie Incarica (17:03):
Wow, you've really thought this through.
Taylor, what can I do to help?
Taylor Branigan (17:10):
Well, Charles, you can get the story out there.
Tell people what's really goingon.
Charlie Incarica (17:15):
Right.
You mean like posting somethingon YouTube or like an ad?
Taylor Branigan (17:19):
No, Charles, you're a podcast.
Charlie Incarica (17:21):
Oh, well, yeah, I mean that too,
obviously.
Uh I will, I will, Taylor.
Absolutely will.
And I won't rest until I've putthe missing pieces of this
mystery together.
Taylor Branigan (17:29):
Yeah, well, that's uh let's maybe just stick
to our strengths.
Charlie Incarica (17:33):
I will not rest.
Taylor Branigan (17:35):
Okay.
Thanks.
Charlie Incarica (17:36):
You're welcome.
Taylor Branigan (17:37):
But before I hang up, someone wants to say a
quick hello.
Surprise, buddy!
Charlie Incarica (17:43):
Estelle?
Taylor Branigan (17:44):
Welcome!
Estelle Hayes (17:46):
Three points from Up.
Hey, don't you worry about meand Taylor.
We'll fix this shit.
I'm sick of my shitty stayingtown, never doing the right
thing.
We're gonna put things right.
Charlie Incarica (17:57):
I wanna help.
Estelle Hayes (17:58):
Oh, that's a fucking adorable kid.
You are in your way.
It's not a very big way,obviously, but before all is
said and done, we're probablygonna need the help of you and
your listeners.
So don't fuck it up.
Besides, we've just given youthe perfect cliffhanger for
season two.
Charlie Incarica (18:13):
That means a lot to me that you do that.
Estelle Hayes (18:16):
Yeah, that's not why we did it for fuck's sake.
But I gotta admit, I'm happy ifit helps.
Charlie Incarica (18:22):
So, somehow Taylor and Estelle, whether by
design or accident, were nowteaming up, presumably with
Margaret in tow.
But what about Tammy the Blade?
Did Estelle break things offwith her in order to do the
right thing?
Or was Tammy the Blade notguilty after all?
So many unanswered questions,and so much fallout.
(18:43):
Governor Hart vowed to onlyrest sporadically until they
track Margaret and Taylor down,while Mayor Lyons and the City
Council are coming to grips withhow their small town will move
forward.
Mayor Lyons (18:54):
I think the best way to honor Amanda and the
other two's memory is to keeptheir tragedy fresh in our
hearts and minds.
That's why I think oursponsored walking tours of the
crime scene is going to behealing and lucrative, which in
turn will lead to more healing.
We're calling it Welcome toShady Grave.
(19:17):
Because graves are wheremurdered people end up, and it's
also only one letter off fromGrove, so it works on a few
levels.
Charlie Incarica (19:27):
You and Teddy are also charging for coach
tours of the areas where WalterPutnam murdered sex workers.
Aren't you, in essence, tryingto brand Shady Grove as some
sort of ghoulish tourist haven,cashing in on tawdry murders?
Mayor Lyons (19:42):
Even more than that.
We've also got a petting zoofor the kids at Amanda's house,
featuring Amanda's actual dogs.
So that's neat, I think.
The whole endeavor is a lovingtribute from a brother in a
community that will forever feelthe absence of Amanda and the
income streams she brought tothis town.
(20:02):
I I I I truly believe it's whatAmanda would have wanted us to
do.
Charlie Incarica (20:11):
Personally, I think that Amanda Putnam Hart,
Chip Bing, and Michelle Quincywould have wanted, and indeed
deserve, justice for theirmurders.
Taylor certainly doesn'tdeserve to be a fugitive, and
Vanessa Holmes has put out apersonal plea for the true
murderer to come forward beforeher publishing deadline in
August.
So far, no luck.
(20:32):
At the beginning of thispodcast series, I asked if
justice can even exist in aplace like Shady Grove.
I think it can, but it takesthe integrity and grit of people
like Estelle Hayes, TaylorBranaghen, and in fairness, me
to make that happen.
But we can't do it alone.
This puzzle still has missingpieces.
(20:54):
Perhaps with your help, we canfind peace together in piecing
together the masterpiece ofmisplaced missing pieces.
I truly believe we're closerthan ever to solving the tragedy
that is the murderer killings.
And the sooner we do, thequicker and easier it'll be to
produce the next season.
I'm Charles Inkarika, and thishas never stopped being the
(21:28):
murderer killings.
Suddenly, nothing seemed to make sense.
Why would William Hart, whostood to gain so much from
Margaret's conviction, deliver apassionate plea for mercy,
protesting that she wasn'tguilty?
What information might he havethat led him to believe in her
innocence?
And how did this documenteddweeb transform himself into
(00:25):
such an eloquent thirst trap?
Taylor Branigan (00:28):
It shook me, William's statement.
Charlie Incarica (00:30):
Taylor Branigan.
Taylor Branigan (00:32):
He had nothing to gain.
In fact, the opposite.
So, even though I still believeJones did it, I felt compelled
to try to find out why hethought she didn't, and just how
he'd become almost literally anew man since we last spoke.
Charlie Incarica (00:45):
Taylor reached out to the estranged, widowed,
and newly hot William Hart, andshe asked if they could meet,
off the record.
He said he needed to thinkabout it.
Three minutes later, his newwife Erica called back to invite
her to their home, as long asshe agreed not to tell anyone,
to come at night, and not inuniform.
Also, if she agreed to bringsome paper towels and orange
(01:08):
juice, as they were running lowon both.
Taylor Branigan (01:11):
Things started off a little strained.
Partially because of theoddness of the situation, but
also because the OJ I had boughtcontained lots of pulp instead
of some pulp, which apparentlywas a really big deal.
Anyway, things got a littlebetter once we sat down,
especially for William, butErica watched him like a hawk.
Charlie Incarica (01:30):
You mean from a great height?
Taylor Branigan (01:31):
I mean closely.
I talked to him about how hispublic speaking was different
than his conversational tone,but it turned out it wasn't.
He said forsooth at least sixtimes.
He attributed his changes toErica, who he clearly
worshipped.
What was Erica like?
Hot and cold.
She was surprisingly frank attimes, and then suddenly
(01:53):
evasive.
She admitted that she and hernow mother-in-law had arranged
this marriage to benefit both oftheir positions, but that she
and William had quickly fallendeeply in love.
When I asked William why hethought Margaret was innocent,
he'd look at Erica and she'danswer for him, but very
cryptically.
What did she say?
(02:14):
She said she couldn't revealeverything, but that she had
overheard something after heryoga class.
The studio shared a common areawith a company that sold
timeshares in Mexico on Mondaysand Wednesdays, and pills that
purported to combat memory lossand erectile dysfunction on
Tuesdays and Thursdays.
One afternoon, the company'smanager was outside on a smoke
(02:34):
break, which incensed Erica'syoga class as it was
overpowering their incense.
So Erica volunteered to speakto the woman because her yoga
instructor apparently had a realtemper.
But as she approached thewoman, she thought she overheard
the woman say, MargaretMandragara Jones, as well as the
word knife, repeatedly.
But then the woman saw Ericaand ended the call.
(02:56):
In fact, she threw the phone onthe ground and smashed it into
smithereens with the heel of hershoe.
Otherwise, she seemed friendly,and the conversation was
amicable and normal.
Except that she had asked Ericaseveral times how much of the
phone call she had heard.
Charlie Incarica (03:11):
Hardly proof of anything, though.
Taylor Branigan (03:13):
But it did sound suspicious.
Yet when I asked Erica for thename of the company, she said
she couldn't trust me yet,despite the fact we had just
spent like 20 minutes doing thatthing where you fall backwards
and people catch you.
Charlie Incarica (03:24):
Taylor wasn't the only one who felt things
were off.
The afternoon I returned toEstelle's after the sentencing.
I saw Estelle talking on thephone.
I couldn't make out what shewas saying, but she looked
overwhelmed.
Then as soon as she saw me, shelooked panic stricken and got
off the phone.
Hey, hey, Estelle.
Everything okay?
Everything's fine.
Okay.
Uh I'll just I'm gonna walk I'mgonna let myself into the uh
(03:48):
living room here.
I'm just gonna get myself adrink.
Okay.
Okay.
I'm fine.
I don't know if you wereoffering, but I'm fine.
I'd never seen Estelle like thatbefore.
And over these past months,let's just say I'd seen Estelle
most ways.
So I asked her if anything hadhappened to upset her during her
phone call.
Estelle Hayes (04:06):
Why would you think that?
Charlie Incarica (04:08):
Well, it's none of my business, but you
looked upset.
Estelle Hayes (04:11):
Well the truth is I was on the phone with my life
coach.
Charlie Incarica (04:16):
You have a life coach.
Estelle Hayes (04:17):
What the fuck is that supposed to mean?
Charlie Incarica (04:19):
Nothing.
It's just that you make it lookso effortless.
Estelle Hayes (04:23):
I know I do, honey.
But even I need a littleguidance now and then.
Charlie Incarica (04:27):
And she or he gave you some upsetting news.
Estelle Hayes (04:31):
Why do you keep thinking I was upset?
Charlie Incarica (04:32):
Because you sounded really upset, and you
kept repeating, I've gotta go,I've gotta go, in an
increasingly panicked voice as Icame in the house.
Estelle Hayes (04:39):
Oh no, that that's a life coach thing.
That's the mantra we come upwith for me.
Because I don't know if younotice this, but I don't always
go.
I mean really go for itenergetically and and
spiritually, you know?
So that mantra is how we'reworking on that issue.
Uh you hungry?
I made my world famous whiskeychicken.
Charlie Incarica (05:02):
Is that the one where you get a bucket of
hot wings and drink whiskey?
Shh.
Estelle Hayes (05:06):
It's a secret recipe.
Charlie Incarica (05:08):
I was highly skeptical about her mantra
excuse, and I was sure shewasn't being totally honest
about it being a secret recipe.
But frankly, after fourhelpings of her whiskey chicken,
I'd forgotten much of thatevening.
In fact, I only held on to thisrecording because later that
night, Estelle and I did akick-ass medley of Eye of the
Tiger and Bohemian Rhapsody.
(05:29):
We nailed the harmonies.
Still, I was willing to chalkit up to coincidence for a few
(06:01):
days until I replayed Taylor'sdescription of Erica's
description of thatconversation.
It wasn't simply what thismysterious manager woman said or
did.
It was the company she wasrunning.
It sold timeshares and pillsclaiming to cure hearing loss
and erectile dysfunction.
Products aimed at the elderly.
(06:21):
And though I believe it'sunprofessional to judge before
all the facts are in, I letmyself venture this much.
It sounded possible that thiscompany wasn't entirely
legitimate.
In other words, this woman waspossibly grifting the elderly.
Which just so happens to havebeen the passion of Amanda and
(06:42):
Teddy's long-lost mother, Tammythe Blade.
I called Taylor and shared myinsight.
Taylor Branigan (06:56):
Wow, that's shocking.
Right?
And no offense, shockinglyinsightful.
Charlie Incarica (07:02):
Thanks.
Taylor Branigan (07:03):
What was her name again?
Charlie Incarica (07:04):
All anyone knew her as was Tammy the Blade.
Oh my god.
Taylor was now in a bind.
Mayor Lyons was forced toappoint Taylor to chief after
the successful conviction ofMargaret, and she'd started to
instill a sense of purpose andprofessionalism in Shady Grove's
police force.
But now, she believed she couldhave been wrong this whole
(07:27):
time.
Yet, to admit that wouldinstantly lose her the post and
undo all the good work she wasstarting to do, like eliminating
Chief Ebner's stand your groundpolicy with Jaywalkers.
She had to secretly reopen thecase and investigate in her
spare time.
And she needed help.
I'm in.
Taylor Branigan (07:46):
What?
You're offering to help me?
Charlie Incarica (07:48):
That's what you were hinting at, right?
Taylor Branigan (07:50):
Well, uh, let's put a pin in that for a moment.
Though there is one thing Iwould like your help with.
Charlie Incarica (07:55):
Name it.
Taylor Branigan (07:56):
Send me your source on Tammy the Blade.
Charlie Incarica (08:01):
The next day, I emailed no longer acting
interim, but actual chief TaylorBranagin.
A link to a Zoom meeting withmyself and Vanessa Holmes.
Taylor Branigan (08:10):
What can you tell me about Tammy the Blade?
Vanessa Holmes (08:13):
Tamila Denuncio.
We don't know a lot, but weknow Robert Putnam met her in
Las Vegas in late 1971, whereshe was working as a topless
juggler by night.
By day she ran a rigged kinogame for the elderly at a bar
off the strip.
Robert saw her performing onenight, juggling a machete, a
flaming bowling pin, and atwo-month-old mountain lion cub,
(08:36):
and was instantly smitten.
After the show he approachedher as her burns were being
treated and told her thatdespite the fresh claw marks,
she was incredibly beautiful andthat he was obscenely rich.
She blew him off at first, butafter receiving a series of
romantic notes backstage fromhis accountant, including one
with a fifty thousand dollarcheck, she agreed to marry him.
(08:59):
After Teddy and Amanda wereborn, she realized that married
life, even in a mansion, wasn'tfor her.
Wow.
Oh, and another juicy tidbit Idug up.
Tammy may have had a lover inShady Grove.
She was seen sneaking back intoShady Grove for several years
after she'd left for Arizona.
Taylor Branigan (09:20):
But how do we even know she's still alive?
And what would her motive befor murder?
Because if she did it, and I'mstill siding with if, that means
she murdered her own daughter.
Charlie Incarica (09:30):
Vanessa went on to tell us Tammy had spent
four years in a Wyoming prisonfor wearing an I-voted sticker
when she hadn't.
And a three-year stretch inTexas for assault with a deadly
weapon.
Namely, a knife.
We signed off shortlythereafter, but all agreed to
keep in touch with any newdevelopments.
When I got home, I told Estellethe latest news, although I
(09:54):
left out the bit about Vanessa.
Estelle Hayes (09:56):
Wait, you think Tamala did this?
Charlie Incarica (09:58):
We're not sure, but we think it's worth
wait, how did you know her fullname is Tamila?
Estelle Hayes (10:04):
Because we met once, and that's how she
introduced herself.
I used to be a pretty goodjuggler back in the day, and I'd
do kids' parties sometimes andwhatnot.
And I got a gig for Teddy andAmanda's sixth birthdays.
Reporter 1 (10:16):
Oh wow.
Estelle Hayes (10:17):
You sound surprised, but I have all sorts
of talents.
I'm a Renaissance woman.
Charlie Incarica (10:22):
Because you can juggle?
Estelle Hayes (10:23):
Ever been to a Renaissance fair?
Of course you have, look atyou.
It's juggling out the ass.
What was Tamil like?
Charles, you need to focus whenyou juggle.
It was a five-minuteconversation a quarter of a
century ago.
Tamala came over to talkbecause she used to juggle a bit
too.
Charlie Incarica (10:41):
She used to juggle in Las Vegas, apparently.
Estelle Hayes (10:44):
Wait a minute.
You've got this from VanessaHolmes.
Charlie Incarica (10:49):
I'm sorry, Estelle.
Estelle Hayes (10:51):
Don't be.
I have other friends.
I have another friend your age,in fact.
Last week we did an a cappellaversion of Africa by Toto that
he said was, and I quote,fucking fire.
Charlie Incarica (11:02):
Oh yeah?
Odd, I've never heard of himthen.
Estelle Hayes (11:05):
That's because he lives in Canada.
We zoom.
We have the most fun fuckingzooms ever.
Lauren is the best.
Charlie Incarica (11:12):
You're upset.
I'm sorry.
Estelle Hayes (11:14):
I'm not.
Anyway, Vanessa's just lookingfor more drama.
Jones clearly did it.
It's crazy.
You're accusing a woman ofmurdering her own daughter.
You seem kind of protective ofTamala, Estelle.
It's the juggler's code.
Never trash a tosser.
And more than that, I don'tthink it tracks.
Anyway, I've gotta hop on theZoom with Lorne.
(11:35):
He's teaching me the metricsystem, and I'm teaching him how
to say out and about like anormal person.
It's a very rewardingrelationship.
Charlie Incarica (11:43):
I left Shady Grove the following day.
But what I hadn't realizeduntil I went back to find our
Eye of the Tiger Medley was thatmy phone kept recording for
hours without my realizing it.
I nearly deleted it.
Yet something, call itinstinct, or a hunch, or
intuition, or an inkling, orinstinct.
(12:04):
But something made me listenthrough the rest of the
recording.
Most of it was boring.
But just when I was about tostop bothering and binge some
Gilmore girls, I heard somethingthat chilled me to the bone.
You're about to hear Estelle onthe phone while I was in the
bathroom not throwing up.
Estelle Hayes (12:22):
But you're not in the clear yet.
Because the cheek thinks you'rethe one who did it.
Yes, the cheap.
No, I don't think that's racistin this context.
Well, because it's the jobtitle, I'm not referring to
Native Americans.
We don't have time for this.
But you need to, baby.
I think you have to stay whereyou are completely.
Charlie Incarica (12:46):
While I definitely did not soil myself
that night, on hearing thosewords, I very nearly did.
On the one hand, a woman I'dgrown quite attached to had been
lying to me this whole time.
On the other, I was so pumpedI'd called it right with Tammy.
On the third hand, I wasexcited I had a damning
confirmation.
(13:06):
But on the fourth, I knew I'dhave to churn Estelle in, and
that made me incredibly sad.
On the fifth hand, however, Iknew if I wanted to live up to
the promise emblazoned on theMurderer Killings shirts,
hoodies, and extra large kitchenmagnets available at
themurdererkillings.com, I hadto do what was right.
And on the sixth, I felt I hadjust broken new true crime
(13:29):
podcast ground, maybe.
So it was a six-handed problem.
Taylor Branigan (13:33):
When I heard the recording, I knew I couldn't
stay quiet.
So I drove out to Estelles atthe crack of dawn.
But she was gone.
Her van was gone.
Her mailbox was not only full,but it included both the March
and April issues of Juggler'sWorld magazine.
She had been gone for a while.
I put out an APB and called theDA's office, telling them about
(13:55):
this new evidence.
Charlie Incarica (13:56):
Newberry's appeals had been previously
rejected by the state's SupremeCourt, and despite William
Hart's increasingly vocal andoddly ornate protestations of
her innocence, most of them werenow delivered in sonnet form.
His own mother refused tointervene as governor.
The execution was set for thefollowing week.
Taylor Branigan (14:20):
It was almost as if they just wanted the whole
thing to be over with,regardless of the truth.
Charlie Incarica (14:24):
For Taylor, this left her with no other
choice.
Taylor Branigan (14:27):
I called a press conference.
Charlie Incarica (14:29):
But Shady Grove only has one newspaper,
published bi-weekly, and its onereporter never showed up.
The murderer killings were oldnews by then.
So Taylor went to Plan B.
She uploaded a video where shelaid out the case for Margaret's
innocence.
To boost her video in socialmedia algorithms, she had a
puppy and baby duck nappingtogether on a blanket in front
(14:51):
of her.
In fact, all of her accusationshad to be whispered.
But the tactic worked.
Within a day, it had receivedseveral million views.
But the DA and the governorweren't backing down.
In fact, they suspended ChiefBranigan immediately, and a
judge issued a gag order, aswell as a mandate that she post
more videos of that puppy andduckling, ideally playing
(15:12):
together.
Taylor Branigan (15:13):
It went against every instinct I had, but I
just couldn't let a woman, nomatter how lethally unpleasant,
be executed for a crime shedidn't commit.
And well, you know the rest.
Charlie Incarica (15:27):
But did I?
Yes.
Reporter 2 (15:30):
Death Row inmate Margaret Mandragora Jones,
scheduled to be executed lastnight, only made things worse
for herself by escaping from achild.
Reporter 1 (15:37):
Mandragora Jones was last seen roughly an hour
before her execution.
Guards for their own emotionalwell-being were wearing
noise-proof headphones to blockout her insults.
Charlie Incarica (15:52):
When I heard the news, I knew exactly what
had happened.
Margaret had used her enormousphysical strength and withering
put-downs to force her way outof the prison yard.
Or that's what I thought, untilfive days later, when I
received an unexpected phonecall from a burner phone,
belonging to the person whosedogged work I'd been documenting
for almost a year and a half.
Taylor Branigan (16:18):
You thought that she used her strength and
sarcasm?
Charlie Incarica (16:20):
Well, I mean it was a hypothesis.
I'd been Wait, what are yousaying?
Taylor Branigan (16:24):
I'm saying read between the lines, Charles.
Oh my god.
Didn't you find it odd that youcouldn't get a hold of me this
last week?
Charlie Incarica (16:32):
Uh, not really.
You only pick up like 10% ofthe time.
Taylor, where are you?
Taylor Branigan (16:38):
I can't say, Charles.
Charlie Incarica (16:40):
I see.
Um, are there any landmarks orstreet signs nearby?
Taylor Branigan (16:44):
No, I know where I am, but I can't say.
Charlie Incarica (16:47):
Oh, right, of course.
Uh what are you gonna do?
Taylor Branigan (16:52):
I I have to I have to find a real killer.
And Margaret is if I answerthat question, they can argue
that's proof I helped herescape.
Charlie Incarica (17:03):
Wow, you've really thought this through.
Taylor, what can I do to help?
Taylor Branigan (17:10):
Well, Charles, you can get the story out there.
Tell people what's really goingon.
Charlie Incarica (17:15):
Right.
You mean like posting somethingon YouTube or like an ad?
Taylor Branigan (17:19):
No, Charles, you're a podcast.
Charlie Incarica (17:21):
Oh, well, yeah, I mean that too,
obviously.
Uh I will, I will, Taylor.
Absolutely will.
And I won't rest until I've putthe missing pieces of this
mystery together.
Taylor Branigan (17:29):
Yeah, well, that's uh let's maybe just stick
to our strengths.
Charlie Incarica (17:33):
I will not rest.
Taylor Branigan (17:35):
Okay.
Thanks.
Charlie Incarica (17:36):
You're welcome.
Taylor Branigan (17:37):
But before I hang up, someone wants to say a
quick hello.
Surprise, buddy!
Charlie Incarica (17:43):
Estelle?
Taylor Branigan (17:44):
Welcome!
Estelle Hayes (17:46):
Three points from Up.
Hey, don't you worry about meand Taylor.
We'll fix this shit.
I'm sick of my shitty stayingtown, never doing the right
thing.
We're gonna put things right.
Charlie Incarica (17:57):
I wanna help.
Estelle Hayes (17:58):
Oh, that's a fucking adorable kid.
You are in your way.
It's not a very big way,obviously, but before all is
said and done, we're probablygonna need the help of you and
your listeners.
So don't fuck it up.
Besides, we've just given youthe perfect cliffhanger for
season two.
Charlie Incarica (18:13):
That means a lot to me that you do that.
Estelle Hayes (18:16):
Yeah, that's not why we did it for fuck's sake.
But I gotta admit, I'm happy ifit helps.
Charlie Incarica (18:22):
So, somehow Taylor and Estelle, whether by
design or accident, were nowteaming up, presumably with
Margaret in tow.
But what about Tammy the Blade?
Did Estelle break things offwith her in order to do the
right thing?
Or was Tammy the Blade notguilty after all?
So many unanswered questions,and so much fallout.
(18:43):
Governor Hart vowed to onlyrest sporadically until they
track Margaret and Taylor down,while Mayor Lyons and the City
Council are coming to grips withhow their small town will move
forward.
Mayor Lyons (18:54):
I think the best way to honor Amanda and the
other two's memory is to keeptheir tragedy fresh in our
hearts and minds.
That's why I think oursponsored walking tours of the
crime scene is going to behealing and lucrative, which in
turn will lead to more healing.
We're calling it Welcome toShady Grave.
(19:17):
Because graves are wheremurdered people end up, and it's
also only one letter off fromGrove, so it works on a few
levels.
Charlie Incarica (19:27):
You and Teddy are also charging for coach
tours of the areas where WalterPutnam murdered sex workers.
Aren't you, in essence, tryingto brand Shady Grove as some
sort of ghoulish tourist haven,cashing in on tawdry murders?
Mayor Lyons (19:42):
Even more than that.
We've also got a petting zoofor the kids at Amanda's house,
featuring Amanda's actual dogs.
So that's neat, I think.
The whole endeavor is a lovingtribute from a brother in a
community that will forever feelthe absence of Amanda and the
income streams she brought tothis town.
(20:02):
I I I I truly believe it's whatAmanda would have wanted us to
do.
Charlie Incarica (20:11):
Personally, I think that Amanda Putnam Hart,
Chip Bing, and Michelle Quincywould have wanted, and indeed
deserve, justice for theirmurders.
Taylor certainly doesn'tdeserve to be a fugitive, and
Vanessa Holmes has put out apersonal plea for the true
murderer to come forward beforeher publishing deadline in
August.
So far, no luck.
(20:32):
At the beginning of thispodcast series, I asked if
justice can even exist in aplace like Shady Grove.
I think it can, but it takesthe integrity and grit of people
like Estelle Hayes, TaylorBranaghen, and in fairness, me
to make that happen.
But we can't do it alone.
This puzzle still has missingpieces.
(20:54):
Perhaps with your help, we canfind peace together in piecing
together the masterpiece ofmisplaced missing pieces.
I truly believe we're closerthan ever to solving the tragedy
that is the murderer killings.
And the sooner we do, thequicker and easier it'll be to
produce the next season.
I'm Charles Inkarika, and thishas never stopped being the
(21:28):
murderer killings.
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