Pastor Ian Wilkinson shares his firsthand account of the deadly mushroom lunch at Erin Patterson's home that claimed the lives of his wife and two others, while he miraculously survived.
In this episode of the Erin Patterson murder trial:
• Long-time pastor of Korumburra Baptist Church for 26 years
• Describes his relationship with Erin Patterson as "friendly, amicable" but more like acquaintances
• Received an unexpected lunch invitation from Erin through his wife Heather
• Initially thought they were the only ones invited but learned Gail and Don Patterson were also coming
• Simon (Erin Patterson’s estranged husband) was invited but didn't attend
• Noticed Erin's reluctance when Heather and Gail wanted to see her pantry
• Observed Erin rejecting offers of help while plating the food herself
• Details how Erin used a different coloured plate (orangey-tan) while guests ate from matching grey plates
• Describes the beef wellington as "like a pasty" containing steak and mushrooms
• Confirms everyone had the same food items on their plates, though couldn't recall how much Erin ate
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the Mushroom Murder Trial
Podcast.
My name is Lisa, and guess whoI have here today?
Hello Louise, hello Miss, howare you?
I'm very well, thank you.
And Louise being here means onething we're going to narrate
one of the transcripts, and whatwe're going to do today is Ian
(00:22):
Wilkinson's testimony to thecourt.
So Louise is Ian Wilkinson'stestimony to the court.
So Louise is Ian, her firsttime pretending to be a male.
Okay, I think I'm just going totalk normally.
Yeah, I don't think I'll beable to do this.
No, no, we don't want to dothat.
So thank you so much for comingin today, louise, to help us
(00:42):
out with this.
Always a pleasure, my love.
I did promise it, so I had tocome through.
Yes, so away we go.
I'm going to be Miss Warren,who is part of the prosecution,
and, as I said, you're IanWilliam Wilkinson.
Yes, which is handy, becausethat's actually my last name.
(01:02):
Yes, did you know?
That Spins me up.
Maybe you're related.
Maybe Could be.
Okay, well, that's me startingas Miss Warren.
Mr Wilkinson, could you stateyour full name for the court
again, please?
My name is Ian WilliamWilkinson and your occupation?
(01:23):
I'm the pastor of theCorumburra Baptist Church.
It's Corumburra, it's notCorumburra.
Okay, you do the.
I'm the pastor of the.
Yeah, I'm the pastor of theCorumburra Baptist Church.
There you go.
We got it eventually, didn't we?
Oh dear, how long have you beenin that role?
(01:44):
26 years Now.
You were married to HeatherWilkinson is that right?
Yes, when did you first meetHeather?
What year?
76.
1976?
1976, yes.
And when did you marry?
1979.
You had four children together,is that right?
(02:05):
Yes, that's right.
And their names David, luke,ruth and Elizabeth.
And you lived together inCorrumburra, is that right?
Yes, and how long had you, didyou live in Corrumburra together
?
I lived in Corrumburra 41.
I got it right, you got it.
I lived in Corrumburra 41 years, so together it must be about
(02:28):
39.
Now, did Heather work in paid orunpaid employment?
Initially she was astay-at-home mum looking after
our kids.
She worked as a teacher's aidevoluntarily, and that changed
into a teacher's aide career,tutoring students in a special
program, and then that changedinto teaching English to
migrants.
So that's a career path, okay.
(02:50):
And as at July 2023, she was 66years old.
Is that right?
Sorry, she was 66 years old.
Is that correct?
Yes, and was she still workingat the time?
Yes, she was.
She still working at the time?
Yes, she was teaching Englishto migrants, all right.
Did Heather have any siblings?
(03:11):
Yes, heather had two oldersisters, gail Patterson and Lynn
Young.
And Gail was the older.
Is that correct?
Gail is the oldest, lynn is themiddle sister.
Heather is the baby of thefamily.
Gail was married to DonaldPatterson is that correct?
Yes, and they had four children.
Is that right?
Yes, and their names Simon,matthew, nathan and Anna.
(03:35):
Now Gail and Don, as he wascommonly known.
Is that right?
Yes, they also lived inCorranborough, is that correct?
Yes, that's correct.
And not too far from your place,as I understand it?
Yes, that's correct.
Probably about a kilometre.
Were you close to them?
(03:55):
Yes, we were very close to them.
You'd see them regularly.
Yes, very regularly.
When you say very regularly,would you be able to put
frequency on it?
It varies, of course, but I'dsay probably three times a week.
Okay, now, simon was the eldestchild.
Is that correct?
Yes, and he was married to ErinPatterson.
(04:17):
Yes, and they had two children.
We can't say their names, isthat right?
That is correct.
Now, is it the case that youcame to know Erin through Simon?
Yes, that's the case.
I want to ask you about yourrelationship with Erin Patterson
.
How would you describe yourrelationship with her?
I would say our relationshipwas friendly, amicable.
(04:40):
It didn't have much debt.
I think we were more likeacquaintances.
We didn't see a great deal ofeach other.
Did Erin attend the CoranboroughBaptist Church?
Yes, she did.
Did she attend often orotherwise?
Once again, it's very hard toquantify because things change
over time.
(05:01):
There would be periods whereshe didn't come for a while and
other times where she was muchmore frequent.
If I had to say something, Ithink it would maybe be monthly
or something like that.
Okay, on the average.
Okay, can I just ask you?
Your voice is dropping a littlebit, which is understandable,
(05:21):
but if you could try and keep itup so the jury can hear you,
okay, okay, thank you.
Now, as I understand it, withthe church services when the
COVID pandemic hit you or thechurch began streaming services
so people could still attend,yes, that is correct, and Simon
(05:41):
and Donald were very much incharge of that.
Yes, that is the case.
And did Erin also assist orshare responsibility for that?
Erin did share someresponsibility there and
typically, what was her role inrelation to this, as I think I
understand it, she was helpingestablish the YouTube link to
(06:02):
the service it.
She was helping establish theYouTube link to the service.
Okay, on the occasions Erin didattend church, did you have
much to do with her?
We would have some casualconversation.
She would talk about the family, how you're going, that sort of
conversation.
Okay, all right, now that's.
I've come asked you about yourrelationship with Erin.
(06:23):
Can I ask you, based on yourobservations, how would you
describe Heather's relationshipwith Erin?
Very similar.
Heather would have seen Erinmore than me, talked to her more
than me, but we didn't considerthat relationship was close.
And, again based on yourconversations, how would you
describe Erin generally as aperson?
(06:46):
She seemed like a normal personto me, you know, as I say, when
we met, things were friendly.
We never had arguments ordisputes, or she just seemed
like an ordinary person?
All right, I don't know how todescribe it.
No, that's fine.
I think you've done it.
Now, in terms of Erin andSimon's relationship, again
(07:08):
based on your observations,Firstly, can I ask you was it
your understanding or to yourknowledge that they lived in
Western Australia for a periodof time after they first married
?
Yes, and then at some pointthey returned from Western
Australia to Victoria.
Yes, do you know where theylived when they returned?
(07:29):
Firstly, they lived just out ofCorrumburra, near a small
community, beena, and then theymoved into Corrumburra Okay,
from that point, were you awareof any issues or difficulties
within the relationship?
They began living separately?
Yes, did you have anyconversation with either Erin or
(07:51):
Simon about the relationship,about those difficulties?
I didn't have any conversationswith Erin, a couple of
conversations with Simon, allright.
Now, in the period when Erin andSimon were living together, did
you ever go to their house?
Yes, when they first moved in,okay, when they first moved in,
(08:14):
heather and I went out to visit,yes, did you go inside?
No, where did you go?
Well, we were outside the houseand in the driveway, I suppose
you'd call it, and we spokethere, all right.
Were there any other occasionswhen they were living together
that you went to their house?
Not, that I recall.
(08:34):
And from the period when Erinand Simon began and continued to
live separately, did you evergo to Erin's house prior to July
2023?
Yes, I recall going to a houseat Shelcott's Road where Erin
was living.
Was that Shelcott Road?
Was it Shelcott's Road?
(08:55):
Yes, was it that you, or youand Heather, heather and I Did
you go inside?
No, we spoke to Erin on thedoorstep.
Had you and Heather ever gonefor a meal or otherwise shared a
meal with Erin before July 2023?
No, we were eating together attimes family occasions,
(09:17):
christmas party, that sort ofthing.
Where were those types ofevents typically held?
Typically at Don and Gail'shouse?
All right, now I'm going to askyou about the lunch that
occurred on July 29.
Before I get to that, can I askyou how did it come about that
you attended that lunch?
(09:38):
Erin extended an invitationthrough Heather at church.
Do you know when thatinvitation was extended?
It was reasonably close to thetime of the lunch, either the
week before or two weeks before.
Were you present when thatinvitation was extended?
No, I wasn't present.
When I ask were you present?
(09:59):
Were you present at the churchbut not present with Heather?
At the time, we were all at thechurch and I wasn't present
with Heather and Erin when theinvitation was made.
Thank you, how did you becomeaware of the invitation?
Heather came through.
I was still in the main body ofthe church.
She came through from the halland told me that we'd been
(10:20):
invited to Erin's home for ameal, as best you can.
What exactly did Heather say toyou at that point?
Well, she was fairly excitedand she said it's good news,
sort of thing.
I really can't remember indetail.
That's okay.
Did Heather say whether or notthere was any particular reason
given for the lunch?
(10:40):
There was no reason given forthe lunch and I remember talking
to Heather wondering whysuddenly the invitation?
How did you feel about theinvitation?
Suddenly the invitation?
How did you feel about theinvitation?
We were very happy to beinvited.
Yes, it seemed like maybe ourrelationship with Erin was going
to improve.
You were happy to be invited.
I take it you were happy toaccept the invitation.
(11:03):
Were you aware if anyone elsehad been invited?
Firstly, at the point where youbecame aware that you'd been
invited, at the point we wereinvited, we thought we were the
only ones invited.
I think Heather had someconversation with either Don or
Gail and we became aware thatthey had also been invited and
(11:25):
that Simon too was invited.
Okay, heather kept a diary isthat right?
Yes Of appointments orengagements.
Yes, she was very meticulouswith keeping arrangements and is
this something she would havenoted down in her diary from
your experience?
Yes, for sure.
I just want to ask you to havea look at this document.
(11:45):
Firstly, these are photographs.
That's a.
Do you recognise that?
Yes, what is that?
That is her diary From 2023, isthat right?
Yes, okay.
And then if we go to the nextphotograph, please, do you see
there that this is a photographof entries in the week of July,
commencing 24th of July 2023?
(12:08):
Yes, okay, his Honour, I'lljust interrupt you, miss Warren.
You're going to tender thesephotos.
Miss Warren, I will.
Yes, your Honour, yes, hashtagexhibit five photographs of
Heather Wilkinson's diary.
His Honour, can we get theseuploaded, miss Warren?
Yes, his Honour, have you gotthose?
(12:29):
Ladies and gentlemen, he'stalking to the jury.
Thank you, all.
Right.
Now I'm back to Miss Warren.
I might ask my instructor justto zoom in on the weekend, the
Saturday.
Perfect, okay, mr Wilkinson.
If we look at Saturday 29th ofJuly, firstly, there's in red
writing Jeff 67.
What was that in reference to?
(12:51):
In red writing Jeff 67.
What was that in reference to?
That's in reference to ourfriend Jeff's 67th birthday, and
there is an arrow pointing upto the day before.
Yes, that's the day you weregoing to get together to
celebrate his birthday, and I'llask you about that in a moment.
If we look below I beg yourpardon to the right of that, as
(13:13):
we look at the screen, it says 3pm.
I think that's here.
Yes, angela, and I might needyour help with this.
Okay, what's that in referenceto?
That's in reference to ameeting, a preparation meeting
for a meeting at church thefollowing day.
Jenny is the church secretary.
Jenny is the church secretary.
Angela is the church treasurer,the head of the congregational
(13:37):
meeting.
We would typically get togetherto make sure reports and
business and so on were allproperly arranged.
Okay, so is it scheduled for 3pmpm on that day, on that
Saturday?
That meeting was scheduled for3pm on that day at our home.
And what does IW refer to?
(13:58):
I presume it refers to me.
And then, below that, errandsfor lunch.
Errands for lunch.
Yes, and that's in reference tothe lunch that was booked for
29 July.
Is that right?
That is right In blue, writingto the right of that.
(14:18):
As we look to the screen, itsays 12 o'clock.
Yes, do you know what that's inreference to?
That's in reference to Don andGail coming to pick us up.
We had to be ready by 12o'clock, right.
And then below that fruit, thatwould be referring to the fruit
platter that we were going tobe taking to lunch.
(14:44):
Thank you, some of this and whatI've just asked you about, but
I want to ask you about yourmovements.
Prior I thought, nah, and thenturn now to the attendance at
Erin's place for the lunch.
Okay, and you're all travellingto Erin's in Leangatha, so
we've just skipped forward alittle bit and you all travelled
to Erin's house in Leangatha.
Is that right?
Yes, that's correct.
(15:04):
Do you know what timeapproximately you arrived at
Erin's house?
I would say approximately 12.30.
I don't wear a watch, so Iwould say that's about the time.
Okay, the travel distancebetween Corrumburra and
Leongatha, what is that?
About 15 minutes.
So they were quite a bit late.
(15:26):
Yeah, they were a little bitlate.
When you first arrived, did youor anyone else notice anything?
In particular, when we pulledinto Erin's house, heather said
oh, simon's car is not here.
And what, if anything furtherwas said about that?
Either Don or Gail I can'tremember which one said Simon
won't be coming to lunch.
(15:46):
Did you go into the house ordid you go to the house?
Up to the house, yes, we gotout of the car, went over to the
house.
Erin met us and took us intothe house.
Was anyone else present at thehouse when you got there?
No, it was just Erin andourselves.
Yeah, when you went to thehouse, where did you go?
(16:09):
We went into the kitchen dininglounge room.
It's an open-plan room and wewent into that room.
It was a relatively new build,is that right?
Yes, a new build.
Was there any conversation atthat point in time?
There was general conversation.
Yes, there was how are you'sand that sort of thing, and then
(16:29):
we started conversing about thehouse.
Was there any exploration aboutthe house?
Was there any exploration ofthe house?
No, we just stood in that areaon the one spot talking about
the house for quite a while.
The conversation, in my memory,was largely driven by questions
from Gail and Heather andduring the conversation, erin
(16:51):
mentioned that there was apantry behind a wall in the
kitchen area.
Heather was very interested inpantries at that time because
we'd just built one at home.
Whenever we went to somebody'shouse where they said we have a
pantry, she wanted to look at itbecause she wanted to get ideas
for setting up a pantry.
So on hearing about the pantry,she just immediately started
walking towards it, calling outcan I have a look at your pantry
(17:12):
?
And she assumed the answerwould be yes.
She got about halfway to thepantry and Gail decided she
would go to the pantry.
She started following andHeather was calling out to me
come and look at the pantry.
I had noticed that Erin wasvery reluctant about the visit
to the pantry and had not yetstarted following them.
So I thought maybe the pantryis a mess and it's going to be
(17:35):
an embarrassment, so I won't addto the embarrassment by joining
the party.
Okay, all right.
So Heather and Gail went tolook in the pantry.
They went to look at the pantryand Erin followed them in and
they stood there for some timetalking about the pantry.
Heather called out to me comeon, come here and have a look.
I just thought you decided notto.
(17:56):
I'd be polite and just stayedwhere we were standing talking
with Dom.
Did you go anywhere else, inthe house or outside the house?
We reconvened and talked for alittle while longer in the
dining room and then Heather orGail I can't remember which one
(18:16):
it was suggested we go out tolook at the garden and there was
an agreement about doing that.
So we moved out of the houseonto the veranda that opened off
the dining room and we startedtalking about the garden.
There'd been some work done inthe garden recently mulch laid,
things like that so we weredeciding that.
So we were discussing thosesorts of things, the various
plants and so on.
(18:37):
And where was Erin when thiswas taking place?
She was with us.
We were just walking as a.
We were just walking as a groupup to the end of the veranda
looking out into the garden.
It was a bit wet underfoot, Ithink we looked at the
particular bush at the end ofthe veranda.
It wasn't doing so well.
(18:58):
Heather and Gail are both keengardeners.
There was discussion about whythis plant wasn't doing so well
and whether it might be bettermoved to another location.
Okay, all right.
And then after that, did you,did the party, return inside?
Yes, after a bit of time outthere talking about the garden,
(19:21):
there was some wind damage tothe trees down towards the back
fence.
You know things like that,things to notice in the garden.
So a bit of conversation andthen we wandered back into the
house.
Okay, all right.
Once you were back inside thehouse, what happened next?
That was the time that westarted moving towards lunch, as
(19:42):
in, preparations for the lunchbeing served were Okay.
I want to then ask you aboutthat.
What preparations were therethat you observed in relation to
the lunch?
The only preparations I sawwere potatoes being mashed.
Yes, by whom?
I saw food being plated up.
(20:02):
That's all I saw.
Okay, I just want to go throughthat step by step with you.
Firstly, you said you sawpotatoes being mashed.
By whom were they being mashed?
They were being mashed by Erin,and then did you see any other
preparation of the food?
His Honour, you said you sawthe food being plated up.
(20:26):
Who did you see plating up thefood?
Erin plated up the food.
Miss Warren, where was Erinwhen she was doing that?
When she was plating up thefood, she was on the kitchen
side of the kitchen bench andshe was putting the food on the
plates.
In terms of the kitchen bench,are you able to provide a
description of the layout of thekitchen dining room area?
(20:49):
Yes, I am.
Could you do that please?
There was a the kitchen.
Start with the kitchen.
Yes, If we start with thekitchen, okay, okay, if we start
with the kitchen.
There was a bench that ran outdividing the kitchen area proper
(21:12):
from the dining area.
Erin was on the kitchen side ofthe bench.
On the opposite side of thebench, heather and Gail were
standing.
Then there was the kitchentable immediately behind them,
and Don and I were on the otherside of the kitchen table.
Okay, all right, we might bringup an image which I'll tender
your Honour.
And then Mr Mandy, who isErin's barrister, says no
(21:35):
objection.
Miss Warren, do you recognisethis as the dining room and off
to the left, as you look at thepicture, the kitchen of Aaron's
house?
Yes, I tender your honour, hishonour, yes.
Exhibit six photo of Aaron'sdining kitchen area.
This next bit I actuallylistened to it while it happened
(21:59):
.
But basically what's going onis Ian's chair.
You know, sometimes like you'vegot an office chair and they
just degas.
That's what happened to Ian.
So that's you witness, where itsays there Right, my chair has
subsided suddenly.
That's a bit better, missWarren.
(22:21):
That should be uploaded now.
Your Honour, his Honour.
Yes, miss Warren, have you gotthat there in front of you?
Mr Wilkinson, yes, so you'vedescribed the kitchen and then
the bench that divided thekitchen from the dining room.
So we don't see that to theleft of the photo?
Yes, and in your evidence yousaid that Erin was on the
(22:43):
kitchen side of the bench.
Is that correct?
That is correct.
You said that Gail and Heatherwere on the other side of the
bench, the dining room side ofthe bench.
Yes, now how close were they tothe bench?
They were leaning against theside of the bench.
And then you said that you andDon were on the other side of
the table.
Is that correct?
(23:03):
That is correct.
So, as we look at thatphotograph, you're aware to the
far right of the photograph.
Is that right?
Yes, I should repeat that youwere to the far right of that
photograph.
Is that correct?
Yes, and this is at the pointin time when the meal was being
served.
Is that right?
(23:24):
That is correct.
His Honour being plated beingplated.
Yes, miss Warren.
Yes, thank you.
I just want to go back a step.
You said that you saw potatoesbeing mashed.
I just want to be clear.
Did you see any other foodbeing prepared other than the
potatoes?
No, from where you werestanding, could you see Erin
(23:44):
plating up the food?
Yes, was there any discussionbetween anyone about plating up
the food?
Yes, there was.
What was that?
Both Heather and Gail wereoffering to help plate up the
food, and was that offeraccepted or not?
No, the offer was rejected andAaron plated.
(24:06):
And did Aaron plate all the foodthat went onto the plates?
All the food?
What was on the plates, please?
There was mashed potatoes,green beans and a beef
wellington.
The beef wellington did you seewhere that came from before it
was plated?
No, I didn't.
Can you describe what theindividual beef wellington?
Did you see where that camefrom before it was plated?
No, I didn't.
Can you describe what theindividual beef wellington
(24:27):
looked like?
Each person had an individualserve.
It was very much like a pasty.
If you imagine a pasty beingput on a plate, it was a pastry
case and when we cut into itthere were steak and mushrooms.
Okay, so each person had one,each person had one, each person
had an individual serve and youdescribed it very much like a
(24:48):
pasty, very much like a pasty.
Was it enclosed or open,completely pastry encased, okay?
So Louise and I, we were just ona mission which we sabotaged
terribly.
There was this duck out thefront of like Louise's business
here, right, and we thought itwas injured, honest to God,
(25:09):
because it had been hangingaround for hours and when we
went out there it was kind oflike in the duck version of what
would you say, like in thefetal position.
Yeah, yeah, didn't look, didn'tlook happy, it was letting us
get way too close to it.
So we rang up WIRES and we saidwe'd like to report an injured
duck.
So they said we had to get awashing basket.
And luckily, because Louiseruns a dance studio, the Tribe
(25:33):
Collective you had a washingbasket, yes, so then I rang my
poor husband, because he getsall these jobs.
We said you've got to come,because that's what the wise
people told us we had to put awashing basket over the duck so
he didn't get like what peckedfrom above or something.
Yeah, yeah, because he wasvulnerable to prey.
(25:53):
They said Vulnerable to prey.
So my husband turns up.
He did for like maybe twomilliseconds he did get the bird
.
The bird flew off Because I hadthis theory it couldn't fly and
I was saying to Louise oh no,don't you think if I got that
close it would fly off?
So anyway, that's what happenedwhile we were doing our
(26:15):
mid-podcast break.
Yeah, it turns out nothingwrong with the duck, anyway.
But thank you to the people atWIRES, they've got a good
service, don't they?
Well, they do, and they're verycaring and compassionate about
animals, and that's lovely.
It is lovely.
So there goes the duck.
So shall we start again withthis?
Yes, okay, all right.
(26:37):
And you said that there wasinside.
There was, I beg your pardon,his Honour, steak and mushrooms,
miss Warren, steak andmushrooms.
Thank you, steak and mushroomsinside it.
Yes, that's correct.
Is that something you wereaware of before you cut into it
or after you cut into it?
It was after I cut into it.
(26:58):
Okay, all right.
Was anything else added to theplate?
Any condiments, anything ofthat nature?
I didn't add anything to it.
Okay, all right.
Was anything else added to theplate?
Any condiments, anything ofthat nature?
I didn't add anything to mine.
There may have been gravyavailable on the table Now at
the time that Erin was platingthe food.
So we're still at the kitchenbench.
I've asked you whether or notyou had a view of whether you
(27:19):
could see, specifically, couldyou see the plates that she was
using?
Yes, I could see the plates,and where, firstly, were the
plates as the food was beingplated?
There were five plates, ofcourse.
Perhaps I'll be clear about myquestion.
Were they.
We've had the bench describedthat was divided between the
(27:42):
kitchen and the dining room.
Yes, and there were other areasof the kitchen.
Presumably when in the kitchenwere the plates where the food
was plated on?
Sorry, could you repeat that?
I lost that last bit.
Where in the kitchen were theplates when the food was being
put onto them?
They were on the kitchen bench.
Okay, on that bench thatdivides the kitchen and the
(28:05):
dining room.
Yes, and I could see thembetween Heather and Gail.
Okay, you said that there werefive plates.
Yes, can you describe the platesplease?
Yes, there were four large greydinner plates and one smaller
plate a different colour.
I think it was an orangey-tansort of colour.
(28:26):
What colour were the four largedining plates?
They were a grey colour,different shades of grey, light
grey, dark grey, somewhere inbetween, sort of a middle grey,
we'll say.
And you described the smallerplates.
You said an orangey tan colour.
Yep, once the food was plated,how were those plates
(28:49):
distributed?
Who distributed those plates?
Well, the plates weredistributed by three different
people Gail picked up the twogrey plates and put them on the
table, heather picked up the twogrey plates and put them on the
table, and Erin picked up theodd plate and carried it to the
table.
Did Erin take that plate?
She took it to her place at thetable.
(29:12):
Now, turning to the table, werethere any formal seating
arrangements or was it a casualarrangement?
It was a casual arrangement.
We just seemed to naturally sitdown in place.
All right, do you, as you sithere today, recall who sat where
?
Yes, I do.
Don sat furthest away from me,on the right hand, on my right
(29:35):
hand side.
He was sitting with his back tothe kitchen bench.
His Honour, could you use thephotograph that you were shown
before?
Yes, that's Exhibit 6.
Miss Warren, exhibit 6, we'llbring that up.
His Honour, have you got thatup on your screen there?
I do, yes, good, all right,miss Warren.
(29:58):
What we might do, Mr Wilkinson,is can you mark that on the
screen?
It's a touch screen so youdon't have to do anything except
mark where I asked you to.
Now, looking at that photograph,we were just talking about
where Don was sitting.
Firstly, could you mark thatplease, where Don was perhaps
using a D, you've gone with an X.
(30:22):
Are you able to put a D A D?
There is an XD.
His Honour, are we able to putit up on the screen there so
that I can see it.
Excuse me a moment.
All right, it's working.
I supposed to be up on thatscreen but it's not working at
(30:44):
the moment.
There it is, miss Warren.
If there's no objection, Imight start again.
His Honour, you've put a yellowmark there.
It looks to me like a D.
Miss Warren said okay, we'llcall it a D A.
Pretty funny D.
Miss Warren, can we please markwhere Gail was sitting with a G
(31:04):
, with a G that kind of lookslike a C?
Yeah, that's the one.
And then please, if you couldmark where heather was sitting,
and then yourself with an I, andthen erin, please, with an e.
I'll tender that as mark.
Your honor.
His honor, yes.
(31:25):
Exhibit seven.
Photo of dining table seatsmarked by ian wilkinson.
Miss warren, that's just beinguploaded.
Your honor, well, perhaps justwait for that to happen.
His Honour, have you got allthat?
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you, miss Warren.
Mr Wilkinson, I've asked youabout how the plates were
distributed and you've givenevidence that Erin carried the
(31:49):
smaller orangey-tan colouredplate to where she was sitting
at the table.
I just want to ask you to bevery specific about this what
type of plate?
From the descriptions that youhave given.
Did you eat from?
I ate from a grey plate,heather A grey plate, gail A
grey plate, don A grey plate andErin A rusty coloured plate,
(32:13):
orangey tan plate, whatever itwas.
Prior to eating the meal, wasanything done or said?
We said grace.
And then did you eat the meal?
Yes, we began eating.
Was there conversation duringthe meal?
Yes, just a little conversation.
Comments about the meal In termsof portions of the meal eaten.
(32:36):
Did you all or none of you eatyour meal?
I ate the entire meal.
What about Heather?
She ate the entire meal andGail?
She ate her vegetables and halfof the beef wellington.
And then what about Don?
Don ate his entire meal and heate the half of the beef
wellington that Erin, that Gaildidn't eat.
(32:57):
And there was some banter orteasing about that.
Is that right?
Yes, that's what I remember.
There was talk about husbandshelping their wives out by
eating extra food.
Heather mentioned we shouldhave shared a beef wellington
because she thought the meal wasa bit on the larger side for
her.
So that's the reason I rememberwho ate it because of that
(33:18):
little exchange.
What about Erin?
Did you notice or see how muchshe ate.
I can't say with certainty howmuch she ate.
She was definitely eating.
I don't remember any commentslike you didn't eat much or
anything like that.
All right, I'm not sure if Iasked you this before, so I'll
apologise if I'm repeating this.
(33:39):
Did every plate have the samefood items on it?
Yes, and that includes Erin'splate.
Yes, once that part of thelunch was eaten, was there
anything else served?
Gail had taken a cake and therewas the fruit platter that
Heather had arranged.
Was the cake consumed?
Not much cake was consumed.
(34:00):
Not much fruit was consumed.
We were all fairly full fromthe main course Of the cake and
fruit that was consumed.
How was that served?
It was a help yourself offplates on the table.
His Honour, miss Warren, I wantto give the jury a break at a
convenient time.
Miss Warren, yes, can I askjust a couple more questions and
(34:21):
then I'll to the witness.
You said that it was a helpyourself in terms of any plates
that were used by anyindividuals.
Were the same plates used orwere the different plates used?
I can't recall.
Just finally, before we take abreak, were any drinks consumed
throughout the lunch or afterthe lunch?
I remember a glass of water atthe lunch?
(34:42):
Yep, that is a convenient time,his Honour, all right.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to take a
15-minute break, mr Wilkinson,thank you.
At 11.56am the jury left thecourt and Louise and I might
leave the podcast and we can getback to later do a few more of
(35:04):
these.
But thank you, louise, that wasabsolutely awesome, you helping
me out and our attempted animalsaviour.
Yeah, listen, what an afternoon, oh gosh.
I think we just injected chaosinto that.
Listen, what an afternoon, ohgosh.
I think we just injected chaosinto that, didn't we?
I think we did Bouncing offeach other.
I think it's not well.
It's not well.
I can see the green bit.
(35:24):
Remember, you saw the greenfeather and I was like, yeah,
that can't be good.
No, that's why I'm a podcasterand that's why you are an
entrepreneur.
Yep, we're not vets.
No, definitely not.
But thank you everyone forlistening.
Okay, this week the jury's goingout today, monday, we shall see
(35:45):
what happens.
The judge is going to have aquick chat to them and just
clarify a few areas of law andthen they go, and they're going
to be for the week.
Depends how long it takes,though it's hard to tell how
long juries will take, so Ican't say, but they're going to
be sequestered in a hotel room,which basically means the only
(36:10):
chatting about the case thatthey'll do is in the jury room,
and then they'll be sent to ahotel just to keep them away
from media People like myself,louise, you big, scary person,
you?
No, I'm a lover of animals.
Clearly, we're rescuers.
Now we're rescuers.
Okay, this is probably a bit toofrenzied for this time of the
(36:32):
day, but you know it's not oftenthis happens.
Is it, louise?
For this time of the day, butyou know it's not often this
happens, is it Louise?
Well, it's not.
I mean, I didn't expect to.
You know, turn up.
Do this podcast have to rescuean animal?
Because we're in, like, we'rein the Newcastle area and you
don't expect to see ducks everyday except at the park.
Well, yeah, and we're in theCBD, exactly, we're across from
(36:55):
Woolworths, yes, so, anyway.
So I will chat to you all very,very soon, but I will come back
with more of these this week,depending on how long it takes
with the jury.
So, thank you so much for yourtime today.
We really appreciate it.
And make sure you go to mywebsite, mushroommurdachildcom,
and sign up for that newsletter.
(37:16):
It is the number one newsletterin Newcastle.
You need to be there, but havea great week, look after
yourself.
We've apparently got someterrible weather coming.
We do so lucky.
We did rescue that duck then.
Yes, not that we did, butanyway, all right, have a good
(37:36):
one, thank you.
Thank you to louise bye.
This episode is.
This episode is dedicated toducky ducky.
We didn't know you very long,but you made an impact.
Yes, ducky, and then they'reoff.
Hello and welcome to the Mushroom Murder Trial
Podcast.
My name is Lisa, and guess whoI have here today?
Hello Louise, hello Miss, howare you?
I'm very well, thank you.
And Louise being here means onething we're going to narrate
one of the transcripts, and whatwe're going to do today is Ian
(00:22):
Wilkinson's testimony to thecourt.
So Louise is Ian Wilkinson'stestimony to the court.
So Louise is Ian, her firsttime pretending to be a male.
Okay, I think I'm just going totalk normally.
Yeah, I don't think I'll beable to do this.
No, no, we don't want to dothat.
So thank you so much for comingin today, louise, to help us
(00:42):
out with this.
Always a pleasure, my love.
I did promise it, so I had tocome through.
Yes, so away we go.
I'm going to be Miss Warren,who is part of the prosecution,
and, as I said, you're IanWilliam Wilkinson.
Yes, which is handy, becausethat's actually my last name.
(01:02):
Yes, did you know?
That Spins me up.
Maybe you're related.
Maybe Could be.
Okay, well, that's me startingas Miss Warren.
Mr Wilkinson, could you stateyour full name for the court
again, please?
My name is Ian WilliamWilkinson and your occupation?
(01:23):
I'm the pastor of theCorumburra Baptist Church.
It's Corumburra, it's notCorumburra.
Okay, you do the.
I'm the pastor of the.
Yeah, I'm the pastor of theCorumburra Baptist Church.
There you go.
We got it eventually, didn't we?
Oh dear, how long have you beenin that role?
(01:44):
26 years Now.
You were married to HeatherWilkinson is that right?
Yes, when did you first meetHeather?
What year?
76.
1976?
1976, yes.
And when did you marry?
1979.
You had four children together,is that right?
(02:05):
Yes, that's right.
And their names David, luke,ruth and Elizabeth.
And you lived together inCorrumburra, is that right?
Yes, and how long had you, didyou live in Corrumburra together
?
I lived in Corrumburra 41.
I got it right, you got it.
I lived in Corrumburra 41 years, so together it must be about
(02:28):
39.
Now, did Heather work in paid orunpaid employment?
Initially she was astay-at-home mum looking after
our kids.
She worked as a teacher's aidevoluntarily, and that changed
into a teacher's aide career,tutoring students in a special
program, and then that changedinto teaching English to
migrants.
So that's a career path, okay.
(02:50):
And as at July 2023, she was 66years old.
Is that right?
Sorry, she was 66 years old.
Is that correct?
Yes, and was she still workingat the time?
Yes, she was.
She still working at the time?
Yes, she was teaching Englishto migrants, all right.
Did Heather have any siblings?
(03:11):
Yes, heather had two oldersisters, gail Patterson and Lynn
Young.
And Gail was the older.
Is that correct?
Gail is the oldest, lynn is themiddle sister.
Heather is the baby of thefamily.
Gail was married to DonaldPatterson is that correct?
Yes, and they had four children.
Is that right?
Yes, and their names Simon,matthew, nathan and Anna.
(03:35):
Now Gail and Don, as he wascommonly known.
Is that right?
Yes, they also lived inCorranborough, is that correct?
Yes, that's correct.
And not too far from your place,as I understand it?
Yes, that's correct.
Probably about a kilometre.
Were you close to them?
(03:55):
Yes, we were very close to them.
You'd see them regularly.
Yes, very regularly.
When you say very regularly,would you be able to put
frequency on it?
It varies, of course, but I'dsay probably three times a week.
Okay, now, simon was the eldestchild.
Is that correct?
Yes, and he was married to ErinPatterson.
(04:17):
Yes, and they had two children.
We can't say their names, isthat right?
That is correct.
Now, is it the case that youcame to know Erin through Simon?
Yes, that's the case.
I want to ask you about yourrelationship with Erin Patterson
.
How would you describe yourrelationship with her?
I would say our relationshipwas friendly, amicable.
(04:40):
It didn't have much debt.
I think we were more likeacquaintances.
We didn't see a great deal ofeach other.
Did Erin attend the CoranboroughBaptist Church?
Yes, she did.
Did she attend often orotherwise?
Once again, it's very hard toquantify because things change
over time.
(05:01):
There would be periods whereshe didn't come for a while and
other times where she was muchmore frequent.
If I had to say something, Ithink it would maybe be monthly
or something like that.
Okay, on the average.
Okay, can I just ask you?
Your voice is dropping a littlebit, which is understandable,
(05:21):
but if you could try and keep itup so the jury can hear you,
okay, okay, thank you.
Now, as I understand it, withthe church services when the
COVID pandemic hit you or thechurch began streaming services
so people could still attend,yes, that is correct, and Simon
(05:41):
and Donald were very much incharge of that.
Yes, that is the case.
And did Erin also assist orshare responsibility for that?
Erin did share someresponsibility there and
typically, what was her role inrelation to this, as I think I
understand it, she was helpingestablish the YouTube link to
(06:02):
the service it.
She was helping establish theYouTube link to the service.
Okay, on the occasions Erin didattend church, did you have
much to do with her?
We would have some casualconversation.
She would talk about the family, how you're going, that sort of
conversation.
Okay, all right, now that's.
I've come asked you about yourrelationship with Erin.
(06:23):
Can I ask you, based on yourobservations, how would you
describe Heather's relationshipwith Erin?
Very similar.
Heather would have seen Erinmore than me, talked to her more
than me, but we didn't considerthat relationship was close.
And, again based on yourconversations, how would you
describe Erin generally as aperson?
(06:46):
She seemed like a normal personto me, you know, as I say, when
we met, things were friendly.
We never had arguments ordisputes, or she just seemed
like an ordinary person?
All right, I don't know how todescribe it.
No, that's fine.
I think you've done it.
Now, in terms of Erin andSimon's relationship, again
(07:08):
based on your observations,Firstly, can I ask you was it
your understanding or to yourknowledge that they lived in
Western Australia for a periodof time after they first married
?
Yes, and then at some pointthey returned from Western
Australia to Victoria.
Yes, do you know where theylived when they returned?
(07:29):
Firstly, they lived just out ofCorrumburra, near a small
community, beena, and then theymoved into Corrumburra Okay,
from that point, were you awareof any issues or difficulties
within the relationship?
They began living separately?
Yes, did you have anyconversation with either Erin or
(07:51):
Simon about the relationship,about those difficulties?
I didn't have any conversationswith Erin, a couple of
conversations with Simon, allright.
Now, in the period when Erin andSimon were living together, did
you ever go to their house?
Yes, when they first moved in,okay, when they first moved in,
(08:14):
heather and I went out to visit,yes, did you go inside?
No, where did you go?
Well, we were outside the houseand in the driveway, I suppose
you'd call it, and we spokethere, all right.
Were there any other occasionswhen they were living together
that you went to their house?
Not, that I recall.
(08:34):
And from the period when Erinand Simon began and continued to
live separately, did you evergo to Erin's house prior to July
2023?
Yes, I recall going to a houseat Shelcott's Road where Erin
was living.
Was that Shelcott Road?
Was it Shelcott's Road?
(08:55):
Yes, was it that you, or youand Heather, heather and I Did
you go inside?
No, we spoke to Erin on thedoorstep.
Had you and Heather ever gonefor a meal or otherwise shared a
meal with Erin before July 2023?
No, we were eating together attimes family occasions,
(09:17):
christmas party, that sort ofthing.
Where were those types ofevents typically held?
Typically at Don and Gail'shouse?
All right, now I'm going to askyou about the lunch that
occurred on July 29.
Before I get to that, can I askyou how did it come about that
you attended that lunch?
(09:38):
Erin extended an invitationthrough Heather at church.
Do you know when thatinvitation was extended?
It was reasonably close to thetime of the lunch, either the
week before or two weeks before.
Were you present when thatinvitation was extended?
No, I wasn't present.
When I ask were you present?
(09:59):
Were you present at the churchbut not present with Heather?
At the time, we were all at thechurch and I wasn't present
with Heather and Erin when theinvitation was made.
Thank you, how did you becomeaware of the invitation?
Heather came through.
I was still in the main body ofthe church.
She came through from the halland told me that we'd been
(10:20):
invited to Erin's home for ameal, as best you can.
What exactly did Heather say toyou at that point?
Well, she was fairly excitedand she said it's good news,
sort of thing.
I really can't remember indetail.
That's okay.
Did Heather say whether or notthere was any particular reason
given for the lunch?
(10:40):
There was no reason given forthe lunch and I remember talking
to Heather wondering whysuddenly the invitation?
How did you feel about theinvitation?
Suddenly the invitation?
How did you feel about theinvitation?
We were very happy to beinvited.
Yes, it seemed like maybe ourrelationship with Erin was going
to improve.
You were happy to be invited.
I take it you were happy toaccept the invitation.
(11:03):
Were you aware if anyone elsehad been invited?
Firstly, at the point where youbecame aware that you'd been
invited, at the point we wereinvited, we thought we were the
only ones invited.
I think Heather had someconversation with either Don or
Gail and we became aware thatthey had also been invited and
(11:25):
that Simon too was invited.
Okay, heather kept a diary isthat right?
Yes Of appointments orengagements.
Yes, she was very meticulouswith keeping arrangements and is
this something she would havenoted down in her diary from
your experience?
Yes, for sure.
I just want to ask you to havea look at this document.
(11:45):
Firstly, these are photographs.
That's a.
Do you recognise that?
Yes, what is that?
That is her diary From 2023, isthat right?
Yes, okay.
And then if we go to the nextphotograph, please, do you see
there that this is a photographof entries in the week of July,
commencing 24th of July 2023?
(12:08):
Yes, okay, his Honour, I'lljust interrupt you, miss Warren.
You're going to tender thesephotos.
Miss Warren, I will.
Yes, your Honour, yes, hashtagexhibit five photographs of
Heather Wilkinson's diary.
His Honour, can we get theseuploaded, miss Warren?
Yes, his Honour, have you gotthose?
(12:29):
Ladies and gentlemen, he'stalking to the jury.
Thank you, all.
Right.
Now I'm back to Miss Warren.
I might ask my instructor justto zoom in on the weekend, the
Saturday.
Perfect, okay, mr Wilkinson.
If we look at Saturday 29th ofJuly, firstly, there's in red
writing Jeff 67.
What was that in reference to?
(12:51):
In red writing Jeff 67.
What was that in reference to?
That's in reference to ourfriend Jeff's 67th birthday, and
there is an arrow pointing upto the day before.
Yes, that's the day you weregoing to get together to
celebrate his birthday, and I'llask you about that in a moment.
If we look below I beg yourpardon to the right of that, as
(13:13):
we look at the screen, it says 3pm.
I think that's here.
Yes, angela, and I might needyour help with this.
Okay, what's that in referenceto?
That's in reference to ameeting, a preparation meeting
for a meeting at church thefollowing day.
Jenny is the church secretary.
Jenny is the church secretary.
Angela is the church treasurer,the head of the congregational
(13:37):
meeting.
We would typically get togetherto make sure reports and
business and so on were allproperly arranged.
Okay, so is it scheduled for 3pmpm on that day, on that
Saturday?
That meeting was scheduled for3pm on that day at our home.
And what does IW refer to?
(13:58):
I presume it refers to me.
And then, below that, errandsfor lunch.
Errands for lunch.
Yes, and that's in reference tothe lunch that was booked for
29 July.
Is that right?
That is right In blue, writingto the right of that.
(14:18):
As we look to the screen, itsays 12 o'clock.
Yes, do you know what that's inreference to?
That's in reference to Don andGail coming to pick us up.
We had to be ready by 12o'clock, right.
And then below that fruit, thatwould be referring to the fruit
platter that we were going tobe taking to lunch.
(14:44):
Thank you, some of this and whatI've just asked you about, but
I want to ask you about yourmovements.
Prior I thought, nah, and thenturn now to the attendance at
Erin's place for the lunch.
Okay, and you're all travellingto Erin's in Leangatha, so
we've just skipped forward alittle bit and you all travelled
to Erin's house in Leangatha.
Is that right?
Yes, that's correct.
(15:04):
Do you know what timeapproximately you arrived at
Erin's house?
I would say approximately 12.30.
I don't wear a watch, so Iwould say that's about the time.
Okay, the travel distancebetween Corrumburra and
Leongatha, what is that?
About 15 minutes.
So they were quite a bit late.
(15:26):
Yeah, they were a little bitlate.
When you first arrived, did youor anyone else notice anything?
In particular, when we pulledinto Erin's house, heather said
oh, simon's car is not here.
And what, if anything furtherwas said about that?
Either Don or Gail I can'tremember which one said Simon
won't be coming to lunch.
(15:46):
Did you go into the house ordid you go to the house?
Up to the house, yes, we gotout of the car, went over to the
house.
Erin met us and took us intothe house.
Was anyone else present at thehouse when you got there?
No, it was just Erin andourselves.
Yeah, when you went to thehouse, where did you go?
(16:09):
We went into the kitchen dininglounge room.
It's an open-plan room and wewent into that room.
It was a relatively new build,is that right?
Yes, a new build.
Was there any conversation atthat point in time?
There was general conversation.
Yes, there was how are you'sand that sort of thing, and then
(16:29):
we started conversing about thehouse.
Was there any exploration aboutthe house?
Was there any exploration ofthe house?
No, we just stood in that areaon the one spot talking about
the house for quite a while.
The conversation, in my memory,was largely driven by questions
from Gail and Heather andduring the conversation, erin
(16:51):
mentioned that there was apantry behind a wall in the
kitchen area.
Heather was very interested inpantries at that time because
we'd just built one at home.
Whenever we went to somebody'shouse where they said we have a
pantry, she wanted to look at itbecause she wanted to get ideas
for setting up a pantry.
So on hearing about the pantry,she just immediately started
walking towards it, calling outcan I have a look at your pantry
(17:12):
?
And she assumed the answerwould be yes.
She got about halfway to thepantry and Gail decided she
would go to the pantry.
She started following andHeather was calling out to me
come and look at the pantry.
I had noticed that Erin wasvery reluctant about the visit
to the pantry and had not yetstarted following them.
So I thought maybe the pantryis a mess and it's going to be
(17:35):
an embarrassment, so I won't addto the embarrassment by joining
the party.
Okay, all right.
So Heather and Gail went tolook in the pantry.
They went to look at the pantryand Erin followed them in and
they stood there for some timetalking about the pantry.
Heather called out to me comeon, come here and have a look.
I just thought you decided notto.
(17:56):
I'd be polite and just stayedwhere we were standing talking
with Dom.
Did you go anywhere else, inthe house or outside the house?
We reconvened and talked for alittle while longer in the
dining room and then Heather orGail I can't remember which one
(18:16):
it was suggested we go out tolook at the garden and there was
an agreement about doing that.
So we moved out of the houseonto the veranda that opened off
the dining room and we startedtalking about the garden.
There'd been some work done inthe garden recently mulch laid,
things like that so we weredeciding that.
So we were discussing thosesorts of things, the various
plants and so on.
(18:37):
And where was Erin when thiswas taking place?
She was with us.
We were just walking as a.
We were just walking as a groupup to the end of the veranda
looking out into the garden.
It was a bit wet underfoot, Ithink we looked at the
particular bush at the end ofthe veranda.
It wasn't doing so well.
(18:58):
Heather and Gail are both keengardeners.
There was discussion about whythis plant wasn't doing so well
and whether it might be bettermoved to another location.
Okay, all right.
And then after that, did you,did the party, return inside?
Yes, after a bit of time outthere talking about the garden,
(19:21):
there was some wind damage tothe trees down towards the back
fence.
You know things like that,things to notice in the garden.
So a bit of conversation andthen we wandered back into the
house.
Okay, all right.
Once you were back inside thehouse, what happened next?
That was the time that westarted moving towards lunch, as
(19:42):
in, preparations for the lunchbeing served were Okay.
I want to then ask you aboutthat.
What preparations were therethat you observed in relation to
the lunch?
The only preparations I sawwere potatoes being mashed.
Yes, by whom?
I saw food being plated up.
(20:02):
That's all I saw.
Okay, I just want to go throughthat step by step with you.
Firstly, you said you sawpotatoes being mashed.
By whom were they being mashed?
They were being mashed by Erin,and then did you see any other
preparation of the food?
His Honour, you said you sawthe food being plated up.
(20:26):
Who did you see plating up thefood?
Erin plated up the food.
Miss Warren, where was Erinwhen she was doing that?
When she was plating up thefood, she was on the kitchen
side of the kitchen bench andshe was putting the food on the
plates.
In terms of the kitchen bench,are you able to provide a
description of the layout of thekitchen dining room area?
(20:49):
Yes, I am.
Could you do that please?
There was a the kitchen.
Start with the kitchen.
Yes, If we start with thekitchen, okay, okay, if we start
with the kitchen.
There was a bench that ran outdividing the kitchen area proper
(21:12):
from the dining area.
Erin was on the kitchen side ofthe bench.
On the opposite side of thebench, heather and Gail were
standing.
Then there was the kitchentable immediately behind them,
and Don and I were on the otherside of the kitchen table.
Okay, all right, we might bringup an image which I'll tender
your Honour.
And then Mr Mandy, who isErin's barrister, says no
(21:35):
objection.
Miss Warren, do you recognisethis as the dining room and off
to the left, as you look at thepicture, the kitchen of Aaron's
house?
Yes, I tender your honour, hishonour, yes.
Exhibit six photo of Aaron'sdining kitchen area.
This next bit I actuallylistened to it while it happened
(21:59):
.
But basically what's going onis Ian's chair.
You know, sometimes like you'vegot an office chair and they
just degas.
That's what happened to Ian.
So that's you witness, where itsays there Right, my chair has
subsided suddenly.
That's a bit better, missWarren.
(22:21):
That should be uploaded now.
Your Honour, his Honour.
Yes, miss Warren, have you gotthat there in front of you?
Mr Wilkinson, yes, so you'vedescribed the kitchen and then
the bench that divided thekitchen from the dining room.
So we don't see that to theleft of the photo?
Yes, and in your evidence yousaid that Erin was on the
(22:43):
kitchen side of the bench.
Is that correct?
That is correct.
You said that Gail and Heatherwere on the other side of the
bench, the dining room side ofthe bench.
Yes, now how close were they tothe bench?
They were leaning against theside of the bench.
And then you said that you andDon were on the other side of
the table.
Is that correct?
(23:03):
That is correct.
So, as we look at thatphotograph, you're aware to the
far right of the photograph.
Is that right?
Yes, I should repeat that youwere to the far right of that
photograph.
Is that correct?
Yes, and this is at the pointin time when the meal was being
served.
Is that right?
(23:24):
That is correct.
His Honour being plated beingplated.
Yes, miss Warren.
Yes, thank you.
I just want to go back a step.
You said that you saw potatoesbeing mashed.
I just want to be clear.
Did you see any other foodbeing prepared other than the
potatoes?
No, from where you werestanding, could you see Erin
(23:44):
plating up the food?
Yes, was there any discussionbetween anyone about plating up
the food?
Yes, there was.
What was that?
Both Heather and Gail wereoffering to help plate up the
food, and was that offeraccepted or not?
No, the offer was rejected andAaron plated.
(24:06):
And did Aaron plate all the foodthat went onto the plates?
All the food?
What was on the plates, please?
There was mashed potatoes,green beans and a beef
wellington.
The beef wellington did you seewhere that came from before it
was plated?
No, I didn't.
Can you describe what theindividual beef wellington?
Did you see where that camefrom before it was plated?
No, I didn't.
Can you describe what theindividual beef wellington
(24:27):
looked like?
Each person had an individualserve.
It was very much like a pasty.
If you imagine a pasty beingput on a plate, it was a pastry
case and when we cut into itthere were steak and mushrooms.
Okay, so each person had one,each person had one, each person
had an individual serve and youdescribed it very much like a
(24:48):
pasty, very much like a pasty.
Was it enclosed or open,completely pastry encased, okay?
So Louise and I, we were just ona mission which we sabotaged
terribly.
There was this duck out thefront of like Louise's business
here, right, and we thought itwas injured, honest to God,
(25:09):
because it had been hangingaround for hours and when we
went out there it was kind oflike in the duck version of what
would you say, like in thefetal position.
Yeah, yeah, didn't look, didn'tlook happy, it was letting us
get way too close to it.
So we rang up WIRES and we saidwe'd like to report an injured
duck.
So they said we had to get awashing basket.
And luckily, because Louiseruns a dance studio, the Tribe
(25:33):
Collective you had a washingbasket, yes, so then I rang my
poor husband, because he getsall these jobs.
We said you've got to come,because that's what the wise
people told us we had to put awashing basket over the duck so
he didn't get like what peckedfrom above or something.
Yeah, yeah, because he wasvulnerable to prey.
(25:53):
They said Vulnerable to prey.
So my husband turns up.
He did for like maybe twomilliseconds he did get the bird
.
The bird flew off Because I hadthis theory it couldn't fly and
I was saying to Louise oh no,don't you think if I got that
close it would fly off?
So anyway, that's what happenedwhile we were doing our
(26:15):
mid-podcast break.
Yeah, it turns out nothingwrong with the duck, anyway.
But thank you to the people atWIRES, they've got a good
service, don't they?
Well, they do, and they're verycaring and compassionate about
animals, and that's lovely.
It is lovely.
So there goes the duck.
So shall we start again withthis?
Yes, okay, all right.
(26:37):
And you said that there wasinside.
There was, I beg your pardon,his Honour, steak and mushrooms,
miss Warren, steak andmushrooms.
Thank you, steak and mushroomsinside it.
Yes, that's correct.
Is that something you wereaware of before you cut into it
or after you cut into it?
It was after I cut into it.
(26:58):
Okay, all right.
Was anything else added to theplate?
Any condiments, anything ofthat nature?
I didn't add anything to it.
Okay, all right.
Was anything else added to theplate?
Any condiments, anything ofthat nature?
I didn't add anything to mine.
There may have been gravyavailable on the table Now at
the time that Erin was platingthe food.
So we're still at the kitchenbench.
I've asked you whether or notyou had a view of whether you
(27:19):
could see, specifically, couldyou see the plates that she was
using?
Yes, I could see the plates,and where, firstly, were the
plates as the food was beingplated?
There were five plates, ofcourse.
Perhaps I'll be clear about myquestion.
Were they.
We've had the bench describedthat was divided between the
(27:42):
kitchen and the dining room.
Yes, and there were other areasof the kitchen.
Presumably when in the kitchenwere the plates where the food
was plated on?
Sorry, could you repeat that?
I lost that last bit.
Where in the kitchen were theplates when the food was being
put onto them?
They were on the kitchen bench.
Okay, on that bench thatdivides the kitchen and the
(28:05):
dining room.
Yes, and I could see thembetween Heather and Gail.
Okay, you said that there werefive plates.
Yes, can you describe the platesplease?
Yes, there were four large greydinner plates and one smaller
plate a different colour.
I think it was an orangey-tansort of colour.
(28:26):
What colour were the four largedining plates?
They were a grey colour,different shades of grey, light
grey, dark grey, somewhere inbetween, sort of a middle grey,
we'll say.
And you described the smallerplates.
You said an orangey tan colour.
Yep, once the food was plated,how were those plates
(28:49):
distributed?
Who distributed those plates?
Well, the plates weredistributed by three different
people Gail picked up the twogrey plates and put them on the
table, heather picked up the twogrey plates and put them on the
table, and Erin picked up theodd plate and carried it to the
table.
Did Erin take that plate?
She took it to her place at thetable.
(29:12):
Now, turning to the table, werethere any formal seating
arrangements or was it a casualarrangement?
It was a casual arrangement.
We just seemed to naturally sitdown in place.
All right, do you, as you sithere today, recall who sat where
?
Yes, I do.
Don sat furthest away from me,on the right hand, on my right
(29:35):
hand side.
He was sitting with his back tothe kitchen bench.
His Honour, could you use thephotograph that you were shown
before?
Yes, that's Exhibit 6.
Miss Warren, exhibit 6, we'llbring that up.
His Honour, have you got thatup on your screen there?
I do, yes, good, all right,miss Warren.
(29:58):
What we might do, Mr Wilkinson,is can you mark that on the
screen?
It's a touch screen so youdon't have to do anything except
mark where I asked you to.
Now, looking at that photograph,we were just talking about
where Don was sitting.
Firstly, could you mark thatplease, where Don was perhaps
using a D, you've gone with an X.
(30:22):
Are you able to put a D A D?
There is an XD.
His Honour, are we able to putit up on the screen there so
that I can see it.
Excuse me a moment.
All right, it's working.
I supposed to be up on thatscreen but it's not working at
(30:44):
the moment.
There it is, miss Warren.
If there's no objection, Imight start again.
His Honour, you've put a yellowmark there.
It looks to me like a D.
Miss Warren said okay, we'llcall it a D A.
Pretty funny D.
Miss Warren, can we please markwhere Gail was sitting with a G
(31:04):
, with a G that kind of lookslike a C?
Yeah, that's the one.
And then please, if you couldmark where heather was sitting,
and then yourself with an I, andthen erin, please, with an e.
I'll tender that as mark.
Your honor.
His honor, yes.
(31:25):
Exhibit seven.
Photo of dining table seatsmarked by ian wilkinson.
Miss warren, that's just beinguploaded.
Your honor, well, perhaps justwait for that to happen.
His Honour, have you got allthat?
Ladies and gentlemen, thank you, miss Warren.
Mr Wilkinson, I've asked youabout how the plates were
distributed and you've givenevidence that Erin carried the
(31:49):
smaller orangey-tan colouredplate to where she was sitting
at the table.
I just want to ask you to bevery specific about this what
type of plate?
From the descriptions that youhave given.
Did you eat from?
I ate from a grey plate,heather A grey plate, gail A
grey plate, don A grey plate andErin A rusty coloured plate,
(32:13):
orangey tan plate, whatever itwas.
Prior to eating the meal, wasanything done or said?
We said grace.
And then did you eat the meal?
Yes, we began eating.
Was there conversation duringthe meal?
Yes, just a little conversation.
Comments about the meal In termsof portions of the meal eaten.
(32:36):
Did you all or none of you eatyour meal?
I ate the entire meal.
What about Heather?
She ate the entire meal andGail?
She ate her vegetables and halfof the beef wellington.
And then what about Don?
Don ate his entire meal and heate the half of the beef
wellington that Erin, that Gaildidn't eat.
(32:57):
And there was some banter orteasing about that.
Is that right?
Yes, that's what I remember.
There was talk about husbandshelping their wives out by
eating extra food.
Heather mentioned we shouldhave shared a beef wellington
because she thought the meal wasa bit on the larger side for
her.
So that's the reason I rememberwho ate it because of that
(33:18):
little exchange.
What about Erin?
Did you notice or see how muchshe ate.
I can't say with certainty howmuch she ate.
She was definitely eating.
I don't remember any commentslike you didn't eat much or
anything like that.
All right, I'm not sure if Iasked you this before, so I'll
apologise if I'm repeating this.
(33:39):
Did every plate have the samefood items on it?
Yes, and that includes Erin'splate.
Yes, once that part of thelunch was eaten, was there
anything else served?
Gail had taken a cake and therewas the fruit platter that
Heather had arranged.
Was the cake consumed?
Not much cake was consumed.
(34:00):
Not much fruit was consumed.
We were all fairly full fromthe main course Of the cake and
fruit that was consumed.
How was that served?
It was a help yourself offplates on the table.
His Honour, miss Warren, I wantto give the jury a break at a
convenient time.
Miss Warren, yes, can I askjust a couple more questions and
(34:21):
then I'll to the witness.
You said that it was a helpyourself in terms of any plates
that were used by anyindividuals.
Were the same plates used orwere the different plates used?
I can't recall.
Just finally, before we take abreak, were any drinks consumed
throughout the lunch or afterthe lunch?
I remember a glass of water atthe lunch?
(34:42):
Yep, that is a convenient time,his Honour, all right.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, we're going to take a
15-minute break, mr Wilkinson,thank you.
At 11.56am the jury left thecourt and Louise and I might
leave the podcast and we can getback to later do a few more of
(35:04):
these.
But thank you, louise, that wasabsolutely awesome, you helping
me out and our attempted animalsaviour.
Yeah, listen, what an afternoon, oh gosh.
I think we just injected chaosinto that.
Listen, what an afternoon, ohgosh.
I think we just injected chaosinto that, didn't we?
I think we did Bouncing offeach other.
I think it's not well.
It's not well.
I can see the green bit.
(35:24):
Remember, you saw the greenfeather and I was like, yeah,
that can't be good.
No, that's why I'm a podcasterand that's why you are an
entrepreneur.
Yep, we're not vets.
No, definitely not.
But thank you everyone forlistening.
Okay, this week the jury's goingout today, monday, we shall see
(35:45):
what happens.
The judge is going to have aquick chat to them and just
clarify a few areas of law andthen they go, and they're going
to be for the week.
Depends how long it takes,though it's hard to tell how
long juries will take, so Ican't say, but they're going to
be sequestered in a hotel room,which basically means the only
(36:10):
chatting about the case thatthey'll do is in the jury room,
and then they'll be sent to ahotel just to keep them away
from media People like myself,louise, you big, scary person,
you?
No, I'm a lover of animals.
Clearly, we're rescuers.
Now we're rescuers.
Okay, this is probably a bit toofrenzied for this time of the
(36:32):
day, but you know it's not oftenthis happens.
Is it, louise?
For this time of the day, butyou know it's not often this
happens, is it Louise?
Well, it's not.
I mean, I didn't expect to.
You know, turn up.
Do this podcast have to rescuean animal?
Because we're in, like, we'rein the Newcastle area and you
don't expect to see ducks everyday except at the park.
Well, yeah, and we're in theCBD, exactly, we're across from
(36:55):
Woolworths, yes, so, anyway.
So I will chat to you all very,very soon, but I will come back
with more of these this week,depending on how long it takes
with the jury.
So, thank you so much for yourtime today.
We really appreciate it.
And make sure you go to mywebsite, mushroommurdachildcom,
and sign up for that newsletter.
(37:16):
It is the number one newsletterin Newcastle.
You need to be there, but havea great week, look after
yourself.
We've apparently got someterrible weather coming.
We do so lucky.
We did rescue that duck then.
Yes, not that we did, butanyway, all right, have a good
(37:36):
one, thank you.
Thank you to louise bye.
This episode is.
This episode is dedicated toducky ducky.
We didn't know you very long,but you made an impact.
Yes, ducky, and then they'reoff.
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