July 26, 2025 • 14 mins
An unexpected investigation has been launched into the accommodation of the Erin Patterson jury during the Mushroom Murder Trial, with jurors placed in the same hotel as media, police, and legal counsel. This blunder adds another layer to this complex case where psychological profiling suggests the killer was driven by a desire for control, power, and a 'moment in the sun' - themes that may explain Patterson's unusual media behaviour.
• Hotel booking error placed sequestered jury in the same accommodation as police, media and legal team
• No suggestion of impropriety but investigation launched by Juries Commissioner
• Justice Beale had sequestered jury to protect them from outside influences during deliberations
• Criminal profilers suggest killers like Patterson crave control and power they feel they've lost in life
• Erin Patterson's true crime obsession, particularly with Ivan Milat case, reveals disturbing psychological patterns
• Police found 423 books in Patterson's home, with no texts on mushroom foraging
• Psychological research shows poisoners often present as immature, isolated individuals seeking notoriety
• Patterson's childlike interests in Lego and unicorns demonstrate the "banality of evil"
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, my name's Lisa and welcome to the Mushroom
Murder Trial podcast.
Before we launch into today'supdates, head to my website,
mushroommurdertrialcom, to signup for our newsletter, which is
free and just keeps you in theloop about everything that's
going on, because this isn'tover yet, and if you haven't yet
, please subscribe to thispodcast on your preferred
(00:21):
platform so you never miss anepisode.
Now, in an unexpected twist inthis high-profile trial, an
investigation's been launchedinto the accommodation of the
Erin Patterson jury during thetrial in Morwell.
Why?
Because a hotel booking blunderplaced jurors in the same hotel
(00:41):
as members of the media,victoria Police and even legal
counsel involved in the caseagainst Patterson.
But let's be clear there's nosuggestion that anyone connected
to Patterson's trial actedimproperly, but questions are
being asked by authorities abouthow this could happen.
Now, this is my opinion.
The trial brought masses ofpeople to Morwell.
(01:03):
I think something like this wasalways going to happen when
you're in a regional town.
Let's remember Patterson pickedthis town as well over having
hearings in Melbourne.
So it was the choice of theaccused now convicted.
But according to the reports inthe nine newspapers, victoria's
Juries Commissioner has nowlaunched an investigation into
(01:24):
the circumstances surroundingthe hotel arrangements.
When contacted forclarification, the
Commissioner's Office referrednewscomau to the Victorian
Supreme Court and they declinedto comment.
So let's go back a little.
This all happened in the finalweek or so of the trial and
Justice Christopher Bealedirected the jury to begin
(01:47):
deliberations on the threecounts of murder and the one
count of attempted murder.
Now, it's quite rare inVictorian trials, but Justice
Beale made the decision tosequester the jury.
That means they were no longerallowed to go home each night
while they were deliberating onan outcome.
They were placed under constantsupervision and accommodated in
a hotel.
(02:07):
Justice Beale told the jury atthe time, and I quote you will
appreciate, I'm sure, that thereason for sequestering the jury
once they have commenced theirdeliberations is to protect them
from any interference oroutside pressure whilst they're
deliberating and to safeguardthe integrity of their verdicts.
(02:27):
I did a case years ago, like 20years ago, about an armed
robber, and what happened wasthat jury was not being.
It was a district court case,but it was still a jury and they
were not sequestered.
And it turned out that theassociates the criminal
associates of one of the peopleup on trial they threatened the
(02:51):
jurors, but not only that, theythreatened the judge.
So these things do happen.
They're rare, but they happen.
So that's why they go to allthis effort to protect the
jurors because you never, neverknow.
Justice Beale continued whilestaying overnight at the hotel.
The jurors will be supervisedby court staff known as jury
(03:12):
keepers I love that term.
I am the keeper of the jury.
The jurors' contact with theoutside world whilst sequestered
will be very limited Now,according to the Supreme Court
of Victoria, the last time ajury was sequestered will be
very limited Now, according tothe Supreme Court of Victoria,
the last time a jury wassequestered in the state was
back in December 2022.
So it's rare and it's clearlytaken very seriously.
(03:35):
But what wasn't anticipated wasthat during these deliberations,
it would emerge that the jurorswere staying in the same hotel
as several members of the mediaand, most notably, detective
Senior Constable StephenEppingstall, the informant in
the case.
The issue came to light fivedays into the deliberations on
(03:55):
Saturday, july 6th, when JusticeBeale's tip staff became aware
of it.
Emails later released showedJustice Beale notified both the
prosecution and the defence thatday.
Here's what he wrote, quote healso told me that there has been
no interaction between them andthe jury the jury have had a
separate floor to themselves andhave eaten their meals in a
(04:18):
conference room.
This sounds like my definitionof hell, like if you're not in
the conference room eating,you're not in the conference
room eating, you're up in yourroom.
And then they had to be carefulabout media.
It's very weird.
And then they weren't reallyallowed to talk to anyone
outside the court and they wereonly allowed to talk about the
verdict inside the jury room mydefinition of hell.
(04:39):
I wonder.
If they were allowed out toexercise.
They would have to be, wouldn'tthey?
Because they were locked awayfor six days or maybe seven.
I shall check.
So we're going back to it.
But all guests used the sameentrance at the hotel.
And interestingly, he added,coincidentally, on Saturday
night the jurors moved to adifferent hotel in a different
(05:00):
town where they will be stayingfor the rest of this week.
I understand that there's ashortage of accommodation in the
district, but it's obviouslyundesirable for any of the
parties or the informant to bestaying at the same hotel as the
jury.
I wonder which one it was.
I'll have to find out.
That email was sent just before8.30am on July 7.
(05:22):
So it was six hours later thejury returned its verdict.
I'm not making allegationsagainst anyone, I'm just
reporting it.
So at 11.13am the prosecutorsresponded.
They confirmed they had alsobecome aware of the situation.
Quote.
We confirmed that the informantwas staying at the hotel for
(05:43):
the duration of the trial and weonly became aware last Thursday
that the jury had commencedstaying there.
The DPP went on to say thedetective believed he was
staying in a different wing ofthe hotel and was using a
different entrance.
Once he learned the jury wasalso there, he took steps to
avoid any shared common areas.
(06:04):
So the prosecution said when webecame aware that the jury was
staying there, we attempted tomove everyone.
But due to see this is thething, they're not magicians
availability issues in the area,we were only able to move
counsel.
We confirmed that theprosecution solicitors did not
interact with the jury at anystage and also took steps to
(06:27):
avoid any incidental contact incommon areas.
That's what the jury was toldtoo.
When people were going aroundgetting their lunch or a coffee,
if they saw someone who wasinvolved in the trial, just
stare past them.
Okay, so that's that story.
I'll keep you up to date on it.
Now let's zoom out for a moment.
Yesterday I was watching thecriminal profiler, pat Brown, on
(06:50):
YouTube and she was talkingabout mass killers because in
relation to the Idaho 4 case andyes, she used that label, mass
killer and that's what Erin used.
Pat Brown said these killersare almost always motivated by
the same thing control and power.
They reach a point in lifewhere they feel like they're
(07:13):
failing, that their moment inthe sun is never coming.
It's a big motive, she said.
They want that moment in thesun where they are finally
freaking somebody.
And while you could dig intotheir childhood, she said, even
their career or their love life,none of that really matters as
much as this Quote.
They lack power and control intheir real lives.
(07:35):
So they asked themselves what'sone way I can get that moment?
Does that explain why Erin wasrunning around like a chook,
with her head cut off in herbackyard with the media?
I don't know.
I just think it would have beensmarter for her to just run
straight back inside, but I gotthe impression, as a former
media trainer, that some of whatshe said was rehearsed.
(07:57):
You may disagree, but Erin wasvery focused on the media.
Now can I tell you why?
Because there was that leakedstatement that she sent to the
police that was leaked to theABC.
Okay, erin said it wasn't her.
I wonder who it was.
And there were three mediastops in general the whole time.
(08:18):
So there were two at her houseand one in Melbourne with her
lawyer where she said nothing.
I don't know, is it her momentin the sun where she could play
the ultimate victim?
So I visited Pat Brown'swebsite patbrownprofilingcom and
one line stood out to me,website patbrownprofilingcom,
and one line stood out to me,quote all murderers kill for the
(08:38):
same reason.
It benefits them because theygain a feeling of power and
control, or they get back thepower and control they feel they
have lost.
And while Brown's commentary isoften focused on serial killers
and yes, erin is a mass killer,not a a serial killer there are
some relevant observations.
Take this Some serial killerswere abused as children and some
weren't.
(08:58):
A lot of the time that abusestory comes from the killer
themselves.
They're looking for sympathy.
So unless it can be verified,take it with a grain of salt.
But there is one common threadshe does trust there's almost
always dysfunction in the familyhome, something that made the
killer lose empathy for others,something that turned them
(09:21):
against society.
Which brings us back to Erin.
There are many sides to her,but what we do know is that her
fascination with true crimewasn't just a passing hobby.
She was obsessed.
One case in particular thebackpacker murders, ivan Malat.
That name still sends a chilldown many spines.
Malat preyed on travellersalong the Hume Highway south of
(09:43):
Sydney throughout the 80s andearly 90s.
Now many people research serialkillers out of morbid curiosity
, but I was told Erin wasgenuinely terrified by Malat.
So someone in the grouprecalled to me how Erin was once
telling the group a story, onethat really stuck with this
(10:04):
person.
I remember it vaguely too.
It painted a picture of someonewho didn't just consume crime,
she lived inside it in her head.
All right, here's the message,and I've been given permission
to use this message.
You know what I mean.
Okay, erin was hitchhiking withher boyfriend before Simon to
Melbourne One day after Malattook someone she was obsessed
(10:28):
with.
Him had all the books CliveSmall.
Clive Small was the chiefinvestigator of the Backpacker
Task Force.
Only after the media release ofthose missing, and then the
Millat trial, she realised howclose she and her boyfriend had
come to death.
Now, while we're on the topicof toxic fascination.
(10:50):
There was a great piece in theAustralian by John Ferguson
about how police told the courtthat Erin had 423 books in her
house.
I'm not judging.
I have books as well.
Well, I had a lot more until mybackyard was flooded recently.
Anyway, keep going.
And they were duly cataloguedas part of the investigation.
(11:11):
And to borrow from the Demtelman, do you remember the Demtel
man?
That's not all.
There were more.
I think I've got a lot morethan that.
Patterson told the jury Manymore, in fact, many books in the
thousands that court heard.
As Patterson was briefed onfamiliar and safe ground talking
about one of her true love'sbooks, nanette Rogers, for the
(11:35):
prosecution, mentioned thatamong the books logged by
detectives, there appeared to benone on the foraging of
mushrooms or fungi.
So that was the day they didthat raid at Erin's the 5th of
August 2023.
And there were books in tubsand boxes in the garage.
(11:55):
So that's fascinating.
And also Erin did own asecondhand bookstore when she
lived in regional WesternAustralia, so that's something
to think about.
I would suspect she has manymore than those books and
there's nothing wrong with that,but I would love to know how
many were true crime.
It's not the first time I'vebeen told that she has many,
(12:18):
many books.
So also, I don't know if youknow this, but according to the
Australian John again, erin hadother hobbies as well Childlike
interests, unicorns and Legos.
Now I know lots of adults playLego.
My friend Eduardo is anexceptional Lego person.
He's won competitions.
So no judgment here.
(12:38):
But we're talking about Erinhere and remember this from the
trial, her son told the courtshe was playing with Lego the
night of the fatal lunch andthere's a phrase for that and it
fits this the banalityality ofevil, just sitting there playing
away with your Lego.
(12:58):
So I've found some research onpoisoners and in the 80s
psychologists and psychiatristsin the US found that convicted
poisoners were often immature,isolated loners, people who
faded into the background,unnoticed, unremarkable, until
they weren't the moment in thesun.
So that's all I have for youtoday.
(13:18):
I am going to put up.
So it's coming in Mondaymorning Duncan McNabb.
We're talking about his newbook on Erin Patterson.
So that's exciting.
So I look forward to that.
Now I have a bit of excitingnews for you to that.
Now I have a bit of excitingnews for you.
I've now been monetized onYouTube and that's relatively
difficult.
I have never been able toachieve that on my other
(13:41):
podcasts, so I want to thank youguys, because that is a huge
deal.
So thank you to everyone whohas watched and commented.
It's truly appreciated.
So I hope you have a fabulousweekend.
I'll be back very, very soonand don't forget to go to my
website and sign up for thenewsletter
mushroommurdertrialcom.
(14:01):
Thank you for listening and weshall chat again.
Bye.
Hello, my name's Lisa and welcome to the Mushroom
Murder Trial podcast.
Before we launch into today'supdates, head to my website,
mushroommurdertrialcom, to signup for our newsletter, which is
free and just keeps you in theloop about everything that's
going on, because this isn'tover yet, and if you haven't yet
, please subscribe to thispodcast on your preferred
(00:21):
platform so you never miss anepisode.
Now, in an unexpected twist inthis high-profile trial, an
investigation's been launchedinto the accommodation of the
Erin Patterson jury during thetrial in Morwell.
Why?
Because a hotel booking blunderplaced jurors in the same hotel
(00:41):
as members of the media,victoria Police and even legal
counsel involved in the caseagainst Patterson.
But let's be clear there's nosuggestion that anyone connected
to Patterson's trial actedimproperly, but questions are
being asked by authorities abouthow this could happen.
Now, this is my opinion.
The trial brought masses ofpeople to Morwell.
(01:03):
I think something like this wasalways going to happen when
you're in a regional town.
Let's remember Patterson pickedthis town as well over having
hearings in Melbourne.
So it was the choice of theaccused now convicted.
But according to the reports inthe nine newspapers, victoria's
Juries Commissioner has nowlaunched an investigation into
(01:24):
the circumstances surroundingthe hotel arrangements.
When contacted forclarification, the
Commissioner's Office referrednewscomau to the Victorian
Supreme Court and they declinedto comment.
So let's go back a little.
This all happened in the finalweek or so of the trial and
Justice Christopher Bealedirected the jury to begin
(01:47):
deliberations on the threecounts of murder and the one
count of attempted murder.
Now, it's quite rare inVictorian trials, but Justice
Beale made the decision tosequester the jury.
That means they were no longerallowed to go home each night
while they were deliberating onan outcome.
They were placed under constantsupervision and accommodated in
a hotel.
(02:07):
Justice Beale told the jury atthe time, and I quote you will
appreciate, I'm sure, that thereason for sequestering the jury
once they have commenced theirdeliberations is to protect them
from any interference oroutside pressure whilst they're
deliberating and to safeguardthe integrity of their verdicts.
(02:27):
I did a case years ago, like 20years ago, about an armed
robber, and what happened wasthat jury was not being.
It was a district court case,but it was still a jury and they
were not sequestered.
And it turned out that theassociates the criminal
associates of one of the peopleup on trial they threatened the
(02:51):
jurors, but not only that, theythreatened the judge.
So these things do happen.
They're rare, but they happen.
So that's why they go to allthis effort to protect the
jurors because you never, neverknow.
Justice Beale continued whilestaying overnight at the hotel.
The jurors will be supervisedby court staff known as jury
(03:12):
keepers I love that term.
I am the keeper of the jury.
The jurors' contact with theoutside world whilst sequestered
will be very limited Now,according to the Supreme Court
of Victoria, the last time ajury was sequestered will be
very limited Now, according tothe Supreme Court of Victoria,
the last time a jury wassequestered in the state was
back in December 2022.
So it's rare and it's clearlytaken very seriously.
(03:35):
But what wasn't anticipated wasthat during these deliberations,
it would emerge that the jurorswere staying in the same hotel
as several members of the mediaand, most notably, detective
Senior Constable StephenEppingstall, the informant in
the case.
The issue came to light fivedays into the deliberations on
(03:55):
Saturday, july 6th, when JusticeBeale's tip staff became aware
of it.
Emails later released showedJustice Beale notified both the
prosecution and the defence thatday.
Here's what he wrote, quote healso told me that there has been
no interaction between them andthe jury the jury have had a
separate floor to themselves andhave eaten their meals in a
(04:18):
conference room.
This sounds like my definitionof hell, like if you're not in
the conference room eating,you're not in the conference
room eating, you're up in yourroom.
And then they had to be carefulabout media.
It's very weird.
And then they weren't reallyallowed to talk to anyone
outside the court and they wereonly allowed to talk about the
verdict inside the jury room mydefinition of hell.
(04:39):
I wonder.
If they were allowed out toexercise.
They would have to be, wouldn'tthey?
Because they were locked awayfor six days or maybe seven.
I shall check.
So we're going back to it.
But all guests used the sameentrance at the hotel.
And interestingly, he added,coincidentally, on Saturday
night the jurors moved to adifferent hotel in a different
(05:00):
town where they will be stayingfor the rest of this week.
I understand that there's ashortage of accommodation in the
district, but it's obviouslyundesirable for any of the
parties or the informant to bestaying at the same hotel as the
jury.
I wonder which one it was.
I'll have to find out.
That email was sent just before8.30am on July 7.
(05:22):
So it was six hours later thejury returned its verdict.
I'm not making allegationsagainst anyone, I'm just
reporting it.
So at 11.13am the prosecutorsresponded.
They confirmed they had alsobecome aware of the situation.
Quote.
We confirmed that the informantwas staying at the hotel for
(05:43):
the duration of the trial and weonly became aware last Thursday
that the jury had commencedstaying there.
The DPP went on to say thedetective believed he was
staying in a different wing ofthe hotel and was using a
different entrance.
Once he learned the jury wasalso there, he took steps to
avoid any shared common areas.
(06:04):
So the prosecution said when webecame aware that the jury was
staying there, we attempted tomove everyone.
But due to see this is thething, they're not magicians
availability issues in the area,we were only able to move
counsel.
We confirmed that theprosecution solicitors did not
interact with the jury at anystage and also took steps to
(06:27):
avoid any incidental contact incommon areas.
That's what the jury was toldtoo.
When people were going aroundgetting their lunch or a coffee,
if they saw someone who wasinvolved in the trial, just
stare past them.
Okay, so that's that story.
I'll keep you up to date on it.
Now let's zoom out for a moment.
Yesterday I was watching thecriminal profiler, pat Brown, on
(06:50):
YouTube and she was talkingabout mass killers because in
relation to the Idaho 4 case andyes, she used that label, mass
killer and that's what Erin used.
Pat Brown said these killersare almost always motivated by
the same thing control and power.
They reach a point in lifewhere they feel like they're
(07:13):
failing, that their moment inthe sun is never coming.
It's a big motive, she said.
They want that moment in thesun where they are finally
freaking somebody.
And while you could dig intotheir childhood, she said, even
their career or their love life,none of that really matters as
much as this Quote.
They lack power and control intheir real lives.
(07:35):
So they asked themselves what'sone way I can get that moment?
Does that explain why Erin wasrunning around like a chook,
with her head cut off in herbackyard with the media?
I don't know.
I just think it would have beensmarter for her to just run
straight back inside, but I gotthe impression, as a former
media trainer, that some of whatshe said was rehearsed.
(07:57):
You may disagree, but Erin wasvery focused on the media.
Now can I tell you why?
Because there was that leakedstatement that she sent to the
police that was leaked to theABC.
Okay, erin said it wasn't her.
I wonder who it was.
And there were three mediastops in general the whole time.
(08:18):
So there were two at her houseand one in Melbourne with her
lawyer where she said nothing.
I don't know, is it her momentin the sun where she could play
the ultimate victim?
So I visited Pat Brown'swebsite patbrownprofilingcom and
one line stood out to me,website patbrownprofilingcom,
and one line stood out to me,quote all murderers kill for the
(08:38):
same reason.
It benefits them because theygain a feeling of power and
control, or they get back thepower and control they feel they
have lost.
And while Brown's commentary isoften focused on serial killers
and yes, erin is a mass killer,not a a serial killer there are
some relevant observations.
Take this Some serial killerswere abused as children and some
weren't.
(08:58):
A lot of the time that abusestory comes from the killer
themselves.
They're looking for sympathy.
So unless it can be verified,take it with a grain of salt.
But there is one common threadshe does trust there's almost
always dysfunction in the familyhome, something that made the
killer lose empathy for others,something that turned them
(09:21):
against society.
Which brings us back to Erin.
There are many sides to her,but what we do know is that her
fascination with true crimewasn't just a passing hobby.
She was obsessed.
One case in particular thebackpacker murders, ivan Malat.
That name still sends a chilldown many spines.
Malat preyed on travellersalong the Hume Highway south of
(09:43):
Sydney throughout the 80s andearly 90s.
Now many people research serialkillers out of morbid curiosity
, but I was told Erin wasgenuinely terrified by Malat.
So someone in the grouprecalled to me how Erin was once
telling the group a story, onethat really stuck with this
(10:04):
person.
I remember it vaguely too.
It painted a picture of someonewho didn't just consume crime,
she lived inside it in her head.
All right, here's the message,and I've been given permission
to use this message.
You know what I mean.
Okay, erin was hitchhiking withher boyfriend before Simon to
Melbourne One day after Malattook someone she was obsessed
(10:28):
with.
Him had all the books CliveSmall.
Clive Small was the chiefinvestigator of the Backpacker
Task Force.
Only after the media release ofthose missing, and then the
Millat trial, she realised howclose she and her boyfriend had
come to death.
Now, while we're on the topicof toxic fascination.
(10:50):
There was a great piece in theAustralian by John Ferguson
about how police told the courtthat Erin had 423 books in her
house.
I'm not judging.
I have books as well.
Well, I had a lot more until mybackyard was flooded recently.
Anyway, keep going.
And they were duly cataloguedas part of the investigation.
(11:11):
And to borrow from the Demtelman, do you remember the Demtel
man?
That's not all.
There were more.
I think I've got a lot morethan that.
Patterson told the jury Manymore, in fact, many books in the
thousands that court heard.
As Patterson was briefed onfamiliar and safe ground talking
about one of her true love'sbooks, nanette Rogers, for the
(11:35):
prosecution, mentioned thatamong the books logged by
detectives, there appeared to benone on the foraging of
mushrooms or fungi.
So that was the day they didthat raid at Erin's the 5th of
August 2023.
And there were books in tubsand boxes in the garage.
(11:55):
So that's fascinating.
And also Erin did own asecondhand bookstore when she
lived in regional WesternAustralia, so that's something
to think about.
I would suspect she has manymore than those books and
there's nothing wrong with that,but I would love to know how
many were true crime.
It's not the first time I'vebeen told that she has many,
(12:18):
many books.
So also, I don't know if youknow this, but according to the
Australian John again, erin hadother hobbies as well Childlike
interests, unicorns and Legos.
Now I know lots of adults playLego.
My friend Eduardo is anexceptional Lego person.
He's won competitions.
So no judgment here.
(12:38):
But we're talking about Erinhere and remember this from the
trial, her son told the courtshe was playing with Lego the
night of the fatal lunch andthere's a phrase for that and it
fits this the banalityality ofevil, just sitting there playing
away with your Lego.
(12:58):
So I've found some research onpoisoners and in the 80s
psychologists and psychiatristsin the US found that convicted
poisoners were often immature,isolated loners, people who
faded into the background,unnoticed, unremarkable, until
they weren't the moment in thesun.
So that's all I have for youtoday.
(13:18):
I am going to put up.
So it's coming in Mondaymorning Duncan McNabb.
We're talking about his newbook on Erin Patterson.
So that's exciting.
So I look forward to that.
Now I have a bit of excitingnews for you to that.
Now I have a bit of excitingnews for you.
I've now been monetized onYouTube and that's relatively
difficult.
I have never been able toachieve that on my other
(13:41):
podcasts, so I want to thank youguys, because that is a huge
deal.
So thank you to everyone whohas watched and commented.
It's truly appreciated.
So I hope you have a fabulousweekend.
I'll be back very, very soonand don't forget to go to my
website and sign up for thenewsletter
mushroommurdertrialcom.
(14:01):
Thank you for listening and weshall chat again.
Bye.
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