October 20, 2023 • 42 mins
Get ready to plug into a high octane rock and roll adventure with Dion Lunadon and Jimmy Christmas of the New Zealand punk rock band The D4. This is not just about music, but about friendship, perseverance, creativity, and following your gut.
Dion and Jimmy recount their experiences performing in Japan with Guitar Wolf, and the renowned South by Southwest Festival in Austin, Texas where they were one of the first New Zealand bands to play there. Listen in to hear some of their adventures whilst on tour and how their relentless work ethic turned dreams into reality.
But this episode is more than just tales from the touring life. It's about the process, the grind, and the sheer determination that fuels creativity. Dion and Jimmy talk about the importance of standing by your ideas, no matter how daunting they seem. They both agree - trust your gut, and let authenticity drive your performances. It's all about finding that raw, unfiltered energy on stage, and sharing it with the world.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Alexander Hallag (00:00):
Hi, this is Alexander Halak and welcome to
the Music is Talking podcast.
For over three decades now,I've been an internationally
published music photographer andin that time I've met and
worked with some amazingcreative people.
To see some of my musicphotography, check out
instagramcom slash the music istalking, or visit my website,
which is wwwthemusicistalkingcom.
(00:22):
So join me as I speak with awide variety of creatives,
including musicians, filmmakers,authors, artists and many
others, to talk about theirpersonal creative journeys and
their unique ways of makinginnovative and original work to
help connect the wider creativecommunity through shared
experience.
On this episode of the Music isTalking, I will be having a
(00:43):
conversation with Dion and Jimmyof the Rock and Roll Band, the
D4, from New Zealand.
We will be talking about theearly beginnings and their
explosive live shows, along withtheir thoughts on creativity.
So sit back and hang on forthis Rock and Roll adventure
with the D4.
Thanks for joining me today.
Thanks for having us man.
Jimmy Christmas (01:01):
Hey, alex.
Alexander Hallag (01:03):
Hey, so let's talk about the D4.
How did you guys start and abrief history of the D4?
.
Dion Lunadon (01:14):
It's a long story.
I guess I'll keep it short.
Me and Jimmy first met when wewere teenagers playing in our
respective first bands.
I was in a band called Nothingat All.
He was in a band called theGoodies and we used to play
halls in the North Shore inAuckland.
We'd hire out halls and we'dplay them to local teenagers Cut
(01:40):
to a few.
Maybe 10 years later I'd leftNothing at All.
I don't know if Jimmy wasn'tplaying the band at that time,
were you no?
Jimmy Christmas (01:53):
I was in Cranking Drinks, cranking Drinks
.
He was in Cranking Drinks.
I joined as a singer.
Dion Lunadon (01:59):
I just wrote Cranking Drinks one more time.
I had been kicked out of a bandcalled the Snitches.
Nothing at All was no longergoing, so I kind of started
getting my own songs togetherand met Jimmy at a party we were
just hanging out playing spinthe bottle, I believe, with a
(02:20):
couple of girls.
Jimmy Christmas (02:21):
That's how the story goes.
Dion Lunadon (02:22):
Yes, that's how the story goes.
It's Mandy and Adria.
I was thinking about forminganother band.
I had a bunch of songs and Iknew Jimmy was a great singer.
He had a real powerful voiceand he could sing and tune.
We decided to have a jam andsee where that took us.
Jimmy Christmas (02:41):
I think, as Dion says, when we started
everybody you know we're puttingbands on the North Shore, the
bands that I was in.
What cool.
I was joining established bandsbecause I wanted to do it but I
could see the bands likeNothing at All were particularly
(03:02):
notable of guys that were doingit.
I'm into that.
That's the sort of music andthe sort of ethos and the
culture that I wanted to be apart of.
I went closer and closer intoDion's circle and then became
friends with the drummer fromNothing at All over a Buzzcox
(03:24):
cassette that I found in hisgirlfriend's bedroom.
There's no reason why she hadthat cassette, you know, it's
like what the hell is this?
And so I ended up being in aband with him.
Actually.
So from post the Cranking Dream, we were in A Bit Off, which
was an offshoot of that.
So it was like a punk outfitand I was just singing in that.
(03:49):
And started to get closer towhat we'll call the Frisbee
scene, which was a collective ofmusicians organized around this
guy Cup guys, but Bob Frisbeewas recording these bands and
John Baker was putting on theshows.
John Baker was putting on theshows and there was, you know,
various setups of recording andlive spaces and practice rooms
(04:13):
and it was very much a uniqueenvironment that was going
against the grain of what washappening in the wider musical A
clear DIY collective.
Alexander Hallag (04:23):
Right, right right.
Jimmy Christmas (04:25):
And so that's how we crossed paths.
And then they had some songsand in a way we went and I think
the start of that was recruitedas the singer and there was
another guitarist, and thatdidn't kind of work out.
And I think Rich I rememberRich Mixtia saying hey, jimmy,
why don't you have a go?
And I had a go.
Alexander Hallag (04:47):
Right and here we are now.
And so there's been obviouslysome breaks in between things.
Dion Lunadon (04:54):
Well, I need one.
Well, yeah, when I want a majorbreak, I guess yeah.
Alexander Hallag (04:58):
And that's because you moved right.
Dion Lunadon (05:00):
Well, yeah, it wasn't just because I moved.
I moved because we'd stopped,we'd stopped.
And basically what happened iswe made the first album, you
know, did really well, we got totravel the world and live a
bunch of stuff that we'd alwaysdreamed of doing.
(05:21):
You know, playing DavidLetterman Meeting our heroes.
Meeting our heroes, playing withthem, blah, blah, blah.
And then we made the secondalbum, which is very hard to
make.
You know, second album isalways a bit tough, especially
if there's some success of thefirst one, because you've got
this thing to live up to.
Then you've got these people inyour ear telling you what to do
.
You know you were surrounded bymanagers, labels, friends, you
(05:42):
know, telling you what youshould be doing.
So it's a confusing time.
But we ended up making thealbum and putting it out and
things were just not quite as.
Times had shifted.
By that time we lost ourmanagement, we lost a bunch of
our labels that we were on.
So it felt like the wind hadbeen taken out of us a little
(06:06):
bit and it got to the time whereit was like oh, we've got to
make a third album.
Now.
This is the time.
And me and Jimmy looked at eachother and just kind of thought
I don't know if we've got it ornot.
You know, like you know we, youknow there was a lot of work
putting that second albumtogether.
We knew how much work it tookto put an album together and it
just seemed like a time to youknow, let's just try something.
(06:27):
Let's just leave this where itis at the moment and go do
separate things.
Jimmy Christmas (06:33):
I think we, because we lost momentum and
some of it was our doing.
I think and some of it was stuffout of our control where we
would try.
You know, they really wanted tosign this record, to be picked
up by this big American labelthat had got the first record,
and there was a lot of waitingaround and we wanted to say,
well, if they don't want it,we'll take it somewhere else and
(06:56):
we'll just go back out andstart doing it.
You know, we organisedourselves our own tour.
We had gone through Europe withthe Hives and had a really
successful tour in that regardand yeah, that side of things
sort of killed a momentum and Ithink perhaps maybe we should
have yeah, I don't know maybehad taken a break between the
(07:18):
two records, like a short break,and then come back focused.
We kind of we would run andfelt like we were just on the go
for years, right, yeah, yeah.
So it's kind of but that's okay.
Dion Lunadon (07:29):
I mean you've got to be on the go.
You know, if you're in a band,you kind of got like, or you're
an artist, you make art like ajob.
You know, you don't take a yearoff, you know, and people don't
take a year off their jobs.
If you can't, you got to lendsome money and shit.
You know.
Alexander Hallag (07:45):
Of course.
Well, it's interesting because,you know, for me, I remember
first hearing the name of the D4when I was living in the States
and then when I moved to NewZealand, I actually put the two
and two that you guys were inNew Zealand band and then I
remember that I'd never knewthat you guys were from New
Zealand.
And then when we you guys dothis show a few years back,
pre-covid at the Bath House itwas actually my first time
(08:07):
seeing you guys as the D4.
But now to last night's show.
I talked to quite a few peoplein the crowd afterwards and they
were telling me from differentexperiences that they had.
Some guys say from Belfast,some people saw you in different
places.
So if we can talk about thatbecause I know it's quite
difficult for bands in NewZealand to break onto that
international circuit how wasthat for you guys?
Dion Lunadon (08:32):
Well, I think we did it because we were driven
and we were all.
You know, as a teenager playingmy first band, my dream was to
play overseas and we were bothpretty driven, hardworking
people, and that's what it takes.
That's all it takes, really.
You know even more than youknow.
(08:52):
What do you call it when you'regood at something?
Jimmy Christmas (08:58):
that's weird.
It's natural building.
Dion Lunadon (09:02):
Even more than ability or skill.
It takes hard work and focusand drive.
We were both about that and wejust made it happen.
We worked hard.
We played a lot of shows in NewZealand.
We did get the opportunity,through bands like Guitar Wolf,
to go to Japan.
That was the first place weever went outside of New Zealand
.
They said we'd love to have youover there, and we were just
(09:26):
like we're going to make thishappen.
We were invited to Japan and wewere going to Japan.
So we saved up a bunch of moneyand we went.
That was really started at all.
That was the catalyst for us tobecome the band we were, by
playing in Japan, going overseasfor the first time.
Not the desperation, but theopportunity had been given to us
(09:54):
and we weren't going to letthat go.
So we put a lot of work intothose shows, and playing with
those Japanese bands too Made usraise the bar on ourselves
because they're all so wild andcrazy.
We were like this is what wewant to be.
Alexander Hallag (10:11):
How did Guitar Wolf hear about you guys?
Jimmy Christmas (10:13):
John Baker had brought Guitar Wolf to New
Zealand.
He was bringing over bands likeDead Moon, guitar Wolf,
helicopters.
We were at the time where wewere cut and put our show
together and started to developa good set.
We got the support gigs forthese because it was part of the
(10:36):
scene and part of the vibe.
Then we took the opportunityand these bands saw something in
us that peaked their interestand said you guys should do this
, or this is the opportunity foryou.
This exists out there.
There's an audience for you.
This is how you get to it.
We did other things, like werecorded a 7-inch cover of a
(11:02):
Devil Dogs song.
Devil Dogs was a big influenceon us and we sent it to the guy
that wrote it at, the bassplayer, steve Bass, who was in
Virginia.
He said we love your band, wecovered your song.
Here it is.
He said great, if you're everin America, come and see me,
(11:23):
I'll book you some shows.
Dion Lunadon (11:24):
Record you, record you, yeah.
Jimmy Christmas (11:27):
Then John came to us and said hey, you guys
should play this festival calledSouth by Southwest Us, and the
Datsons were the first Kiwibands to go and do it.
Alexander Hallag (11:39):
What year is this that we're talking 2000.
Dion Lunadon (11:42):
I would say 2000, yeah or 2001.
Jimmy Christmas (11:45):
Some 2001 maybe yeah, and we applied to South
by Southwest.
We got accepted.
Dion Lunadon (11:52):
As did the Datsons .
Jimmy Christmas (11:54):
Then we shipped our gear together to the venue,
to that beer land, because wecouldn't afford visas, working
visas.
Then we just came into LAFortunately, I think, because my
stepmom ran it like she didsome freighting company stuff.
(12:16):
She freighted our stuff there.
We arrived and our gear arrived.
That was great.
Then suddenly we were on thestreet.
I remember it was on 7th Avenueor something, south by
Southwest.
You're walking into One Bar.
There's a great rock and rollband.
You walk into the next baracross the street and there's a
great rock and roll band.
You go another door down andthere's a great rock and roll
(12:37):
band.
It was like this is out of it.
Dion Lunadon (12:40):
Yeah, that South by Southwest trip was very
important to both us and theDatsons.
Another step in the evolution.
Japan was the first step, thengoing to the United States for
the first time both bands went.
That was definitely the secondstep Because on that trip both
(13:02):
bands went to England straightafter without coming back to New
Zealand.
That's when things just tookoff a bit.
Alexander Hallag (13:12):
These two opportunities presented
themselves, and you guys ranwith it.
Jimmy Christmas (13:15):
We were also getting support as well.
At that point, the guy that hadsigned our first EP got us the
album deal for Flying None a guycalled Paul McKessor.
He had gone to the UK to workin infectious records and took
our record with him.
He said hey, this was the timewhen white stripes strokes.
(13:39):
All that stuff was starting tohappen.
Dion Lunadon (13:43):
It was almost just pre-that.
Jimmy Christmas (13:48):
They signed us and said hey, we ended up doing
this crazy North American tourwhere we went up through America
from Austin up to Virginia tomeet this guy, steve, and record
and do some shows.
But in between we had nothingplanned.
We met some other bands, a bandcalled the Deadly Snakes, who
were for a Canadian band.
(14:08):
They said when you go throughthis town, go to this venue, ask
for this guy, tell him that wesent you and maybe you guys can
play.
We literally would show up at avenue going, hey, we're from
New Zealand with a D4.
The guy's seen us, can we playtonight?
We'll just do 20 minutes orsomething Everywhere.
(14:28):
They said sure, we went to bothplaces.
We'd go.
We don't have any gear, Can weborrow the gear?
And so we had some insaneexperiences doing that, as we
worked our way up to the top andthen Virginia was just off the
scale and then we got the callgoing hey, if you guys want to
(14:48):
come over, we're going to putyour record out.
And Fu Manchu, do you want tocome open for Fu Manchu on a
tour of England?
And so we did that.
Dion Lunadon (14:57):
It's kind of like a.
I think there are three thingskind of involved in getting us
to that level.
It was pure hard work and focusand taking opportunities that
arose, timing with the landscapeof the music and the good old
(15:18):
right people making thingshappen Because you kind of need
that.
The hard work, ethic andplaying shows that helps and
that'll get you so far.
But if you can get some moversand shakers on board that also
believe in you, that know theright people and I would imagine
(15:38):
, bands from the Strokes of theWhite Stripes to us, they all
had, oh, they saw the band andthey believed in it, but they
happened to be connected.
Alexander Hallag (15:51):
And those key connections helped.
Dion Lunadon (15:53):
Those key connections.
Well, they take it from onelevel to the next level.
Alexander Hallag (15:57):
You know what I mean.
Dion Lunadon (15:58):
The hard work touring around is like an honest
man's way to do it, but it's along, slow process.
An honest process.
Jimmy Christmas (16:10):
You think about , like DC's, timing and so much
of it, and then being able totake that opportunity when it's
presented.
But I remember the example ofbeing the set of Hives before
they blew up on that mainoffender stuff.
They've been doing it for 12years, trucking around European
bands and playing the cost?
Alexander Hallag (16:29):
Absolutely not .
Jimmy Christmas (16:31):
And essentially that was.
What's so good about thatperiod, I thought, was that
suddenly all these bands werearriving and were fucking great,
and because they had theirsongs, they had their stagecraft
, they had been doing it.
You know you want watching aband trying to work out its
(16:52):
kinks.
You know, maybe there'ssomething in this sort of thing.
It's like suddenly a dooropened and you know it was.
It was awesome.
Alexander Hallag (16:59):
Yeah, so you're playing with people
experienced and polished, whoknow that craft and assume that
would just up your guys game.
Exactly right, exactly Right.
Jimmy Christmas (17:08):
Exactly Right.
I mean, I think that was one ofthe good things as well,
bumping into the dats and fromtime to time as we cross paths,
was that you're always going toraise the bar on the other one,
and that just, I think, made forsome pretty great, pretty
memorable nights.
Yeah, and I think also, youknow, like the other thing, they
took the combination of the, ofthe personalities within the
(17:30):
band and, like when Beaverjoined he has worked great in
school was just phenomenal andjust became another part of you
know, he had the same desire andwork ethic.
Yeah, and you know that was abig one, and so he was the
engine room.
You know, pure.
He was the pure, pure engineroom in so many ways, physically
(17:53):
and also, you know, emotionally.
In that regard, you know, and Ithink, another thing, I thought
you know, respectretrospectively as well.
I think Dion and I we had, wethought we we covered it like
more specifically, like you know, there's in our songwriting.
I think the way that I approachsongwriting, the way D
approaches songwriting, wascollectively made it.
(18:15):
This thing, obviously, and thenalso our personalities.
We worked together in ourbusiness quite well.
You know we were able to dealwith different situations, some
would be more.
You know, this is Dion's timeto drive it, and then sometimes
it'd be my time to drive it andwe were able to navigate lots,
of, lots of things doing it thatway, yeah, especially because
(18:38):
we maybe weren't superexperienced at doing it there
were some, but like between uswe could kind of get through
there.
Alexander Hallag (18:46):
Was there ever a time, like, where egos kind
of got in the way of that, orwere you guys always pretty
level together?
Dion Lunadon (18:53):
I really I don't think there was a time where
egos really got in the waybetween me and Jimmy.
I feel like we were alwayspretty even Sure.
We had slight ups and downs anda couple of little tips here
and there, which is always goingto happen, but I wouldn't, I
wouldn't, you know, I wouldn'tthink that I didn't.
Jimmy Christmas (19:12):
No, I can't remember.
I agree, I think maybe we hadsharp words twice or something,
and that was more due to beingtired and like toured and grumpy
, you know rather than any realconflict of perspective or, you
know, angle.
Dion Lunadon (19:30):
I think we were always this is the thing we
always listened to each otherbecause we knew that we both had
valuable input, so we wouldn'tjust be like shutting each other
down or anything like that.
We'd always try to keep an openmind and, you know, as you said
, navigate this whole thingtogether.
You know, because we knew thatthat's always working.
Alexander Hallag (19:50):
Well, communication, I think, is
paramount in anything and youknow, in some ways you see a
band as a small family.
Jimmy Christmas (19:57):
Sure, you have some days you have your tits but
overall you try to run a goodfamily.
We lived in each other'spockets for a long, a long time
yeah, a long, long time, and Ithink you know that's testament.
The ability for us to come backand do something like this and
what we did in 2000 and thencome and play these shows around
this album is because that it'sstill tight.
(20:18):
I mean, we've been incommunication pretty much
constantly since then anywayright.
Alexander Hallag (20:25):
So let's talk about different projects for a
moment.
You know, are you guys.
What's new for you guys on thealbum?
Jimmy Christmas (20:36):
What horizons take the lead on that one?
Dion Lunadon (20:38):
I have.
Well, after I left New Zealand,I went to America and lived in
New York.
Since then, I joined the bandcalled A Place to Be Strangers
and I was playing with them for10 years, got to keep continuing
, touring, meeting people,making albums, which was great.
You know, I still kind ofmanaged to keep this as a full
(21:01):
time job, which is, you know, ithas its ups and downs, as it
has, but I decided to make asolo album in 2017 and I quit
Strangers the week March 2020,basically the week New York shut
down.
The week before New York shutdown, when we didn't I think the
(21:24):
week before it we hadn't evenheard of COVID, and then we'd
heard of it, and then I quitStrangers, and then everything
happened at the same time, andso then, yeah, I've just I
decided to just go full blastwith my own project.
That was supposed to be just arecording project.
I liked how it was solitary, itwas under my own name, and I
(21:44):
just liked the idea of doingsomething where I didn't have to
rely on anybody else, notbecause I didn't like working
with people, but I just likedthe challenge and of working, of
making my own decisions fully,even if there was not a clear
way through.
That was what was good withJimmy.
If there wasn't a clear waythrough between us, we could
find a clear way.
(22:05):
But as a solo artist it's alittle bit harder to do that and
it just takes a bit more time.
Sometimes you've got to sitback for a bit and wait for the
answer to sort of present itself.
So, but then, after you haveStrangers spit up, I was like
hey, then if I'm going to dothis full on, I have to get a
band together, because that'show I do it.
(22:28):
Playing live is the key.
So I've been doing it.
Alexander Hallag (22:32):
Now just to hear you with your creative
process.
It makes me think of the bookthat Rick Rubin just put out if
you've seen it, the Art ofCreativity and he talks about
with the creative process.
Dion Lunadon (22:43):
And sometimes you've got to step back to see
bigger, and there's a whole lotof Well, I've seen a few quotes
from the book and it sounds likestuff that resonates with me
now and resonated with meyounger as well, when I was.
It's the kind of stuff you knowwhen you're super young, when
(23:03):
you're making music.
You know, I like this, this iswhat I want to do, and I'm just
going to do it and not give ashit.
And then you get into your 20sand you start getting all these
voices and people around youconfusing you.
You're going I don't know aboutthat, it doesn't sound like a
great idea.
And then so you get scared totry out your ideas, you know.
(23:24):
And then I think full circlecomes around and you're like
fuck what they think you know.
And I was forced into a positionwhere I had to make an album by
myself and I realized again youknow, what I like is good,
that's what I need.
I need to trust my gut and not,you know, don't take any, don't
take too much advice frompeople.
(23:46):
You know, just kind of.
You know, go with what you likeand just see that through.
You know, if other people can'tsee that idea, if you tell them
about it, then maybe best don'ttell them about it and just do
it and like present them with it, and then they'll see it,
because I know from working withother people, you know that
they'll tell me something, and Ialso think I don't know about
(24:07):
that, and then they'll do thething and I'll go oh, that was
actually really cool.
So, yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, create a process.
It's a tricky one, but, fella,you don't take too much advice.
Alexander Hallag (24:22):
There's always those things that you can put
it out.
Maybe nobody will get it rightaway.
Maybe it'll take a couple years, and then we'll go oh my God,
why didn't we hear that?
But then you're on to the nextthing too.
Dion Lunadon (24:34):
You know it's a process of you know, not
everything's going to be great.
You know you might fail acouple of times or whatever.
But as long as you're doing itall the time, then you're sort
of and you're pushing yourselfand you get into those brick
walls and you're breaking yourway through them.
Then you're furthering yourcreativity, widening it and
(24:55):
making progress.
You know, I don't believe insitting around waiting for the
inspiration to hit.
That's a bunch of bullshit.
I think it's like what are youwaiting for?
It's everywhere, it's floatingaround.
You just got to open your mindto it and use yourself as a
conduit to let it just flowthrough.
And just you know.
Jimmy Christmas (25:13):
Yeah, I would concur with that.
I think that that was myexperience, you know.
I sort of got to a pointpost-D4 where the songwriting
had become like just at thatthird record stage, songwriting
was becoming a little difficult,you know.
And then I made a couple ofrecords with a project called
Lugabar, and it was a differentsort of process because it was
(25:38):
just like Dion was saying I wasworking with a guy who was a
really good producer, reallyenabled me just to be creative
and not worry about thearrangements, sort of.
You know, like we came back tothat, like we just got a mic set
up and I got a riff going andthen I got a vibe going and I
started singing what I thoughtwas coming out, and then I went
back and figured out what it wasand then it was, like Dan said,
(26:00):
you sort of hit a brick walland so rather than stop and go,
oh, wait for the inspiration,just move on to the next thing,
put, start another track, dosomething, and then go, oh no,
let's go back.
We're going back now because Iknow where I need to go for that
and it's my observation is,it's not sitting around for
waiting for inspiration tostrike, but just being, when it
(26:22):
hits you, you have to be presentto it and do something about it
.
That's, I think you know.
If you get that idea, you'vegot to record it like write it
down.
Dion Lunadon (26:29):
It was in the morning.
You're in bed and it comes tohead.
Jimmy Christmas (26:32):
Yeah, because it's not coming back.
Dion Lunadon (26:33):
You know like you're tired, but you've got to
get up and like.
Jimmy Christmas (26:36):
You've got to do it because it's not coming
back.
Like you know what I mean.
Like I feel like you get giventhat little seed going.
There's a little idea and inthese times where I've gone, oh
that's great, I remember that inthe morning.
I never remember it.
In the morning I've got to getup and I've got to sing into a
microphone or write it down orroll over.
Alexander Hallag (27:00):
Yeah, see is it and see where it takes you.
Jimmy Christmas (27:03):
Yeah, I think I agree with Dion.
So Dion the new project, if youwant to check out what's it
called.
Alexander Hallag (27:09):
How can we find it?
It's just under my own name,Dion Lunadon.
Dion Lunadon (27:18):
It's.
I have a label called In theRed Records, which I've been a
huge fan of since I was in myfirst band, nothing at all.
So it's just kind of like, yeah, like I say, kind of full
circle, I've come around, I've,like you know, done the major
label thing and now I feel likeI'm kind of at a good place
where I'm on a label that Ireally, you know, respect and
(27:41):
they can find my music anywhereSpotify, any record store, you
know pretty much.
Yeah, it's usually a spot withBandcamp.
Bandcamp is good because it,you know, it allows me to
directly earn money.
You know it's cool.
Alexander Hallag (27:57):
Now, if we can shift to a moment, you know
talking about stage, you knowwe're talking about stage
presence.
With the other bands thatyou're touring with, I've
noticed you guys have a verydistinct presence to you and one
can say, like in your case,dion, you, you murder your
instruments.
Dion Lunadon (28:12):
Right.
Alexander Hallag (28:14):
Visually it's glorious to watch and you know,
jimmy, you've got your.
It's almost, as I see it, kindof like two negatives coming
together, like magnets, wherefor a quick moment one becomes a
positive.
So you have that little push,but then it comes right back
together and when it comestogether it's explosive.
Dion Lunadon (28:34):
Not that it's not explosive differently, but when
you guys go separate you both goexplosive in different ways and
then it's like, yeah, like alarger Well, I think it comes
back to the year and Yang Jimmywas talking to before about our
personalities, and to me that'swhat my stage performance is
about.
It's about my personality.
I'm not trying to, I'm nottrying to put.
(28:55):
I mean, I want to put on a showand have people enjoy it, but
I'm not trying to bedisingenuous and I'm trying to
tap into something that's honestand real and that is Dion
Lunadon distilled.
That's what I'm trying to doand that's a lifelong search,
because the deeper you go, themore layers you can cut through,
(29:15):
the the the stronger and morepowerful it is.
And that's where I want to go,and I want people to see that
and I want to express that.
And the way to express that andto find that is especially on
space stages, but being in themoment and not thinking outside
of the moment.
You're in and you know it's,it's, you know you've got to
(29:37):
just let everything else go andjust fly like a bird or
something.
You're not thinking, you justgot a little bit and it's hard
to do.
Sometimes alcohol helps peopledo that a lot, because you kind
of you know, you kind of you do,you kind of let go and you're
in this crazy sort of moment,you know.
(29:59):
But trying to do that withoutalcohol is even more of a
powerful thing because it's alittle bit more honest.
You're not using something toIs the alcohol more like a mask.
It is like I wouldn't say it'sa mask, it's more of a I don't
(30:20):
know what the right word for itis.
It's kind of like a Dutchcourage thing a little bit,
where you're trying to tap intosomebody by using something
outside of the truth.
You know what I mean.
You're just using, basically adrug to create something that's
very similar like that, but it'sactually not really the truth,
(30:43):
because the alcohol is justgetting you drunk and kind of
doing that.
But if you're tapping intosomething that is more honest
and you don't need that outsideinfluence, it's a heavier place
and it's a more honest place,but it's a lot harder to tap
into and it's a lot harder tolet yourself go too, because
(31:04):
alcohol it's easy to let go andget crazy, but when you don't
have a drug or something else tohelp facilitate that, getting
into that mindset is quitedifficult.
Jimmy Christmas (31:19):
I would say it's interesting.
This experience currently theseshows that we've done, we do
our 13 or so shows myobservation of it I'm keenly
aware of what Dionne is sayingis like when you are in flow
state.
You know they talk about acreative or an artistic flow
state where you are just you'repushing up against your limits,
(31:40):
like you're testing yourself.
It's not too hard, but it'shard enough, you know, and your
concentration and your focus ison this thing and your awareness
is present to the music and theexperience and what you're
doing.
And that's when it's thesweetest, that's what you're
looking for and I think that'swhen you get those moments of
(32:01):
pure energy and those cohesive,magical moments where someone
might be sitting a while.
Dion Lunadon (32:09):
The audience can feel it in a big room.
Jimmy Christmas (32:12):
And one thing that I was aware of in the at a
period in back when we weretouring.
Later in the touring it washard because you had there was
an expectation of like where wewere going or what was happening
next.
So there was like a part of me,I remember, like going how many
people have we got in heretonight?
(32:33):
Are they having a good time?
We would like go hard out andthen people would drop away in
the middle of the set and, youknow, sometimes we think are
they not enjoying it anymore?
I think we just wore them outbecause we're just so relentless
, you know, and we wouldn'treally pace our sets so much as
just nuts.
But there was like an objectiveoutside looking at the present,
(32:56):
the stage thing from, you know,and evaluating it.
I would evaluate it while I wasdoing it, you know, and that is
that that's not pure, and thenso those moments when you find
them are really good.
Now, this time round, myexpectation of this experience
is different, you know, likethere's nothing to prove.
(33:17):
It's an opportunity to dosomething really unique with the
unique guys that are involvedin this, playing this music that
we made, with people that arecoming out to celebrate that.
So the ability to get into flowand to just be present to the
music is seems almost effortless.
You know, for my it's just adifferent.
(33:37):
It's just a different, it'sjust a different thing because I
don't know, it's like maybe itplays back into what Dionne's
saying.
It's like you're taking yourexpectation or other people's
expectations away, all of that,and just and just doing it
honestly honestly, and I thinkyou know it's all this being
authentic, really you know Right.
Alexander Hallag (33:56):
So you're kind of dropping all those voices
out there and there was nolonger matter.
It's now about you, yeah.
Dion Lunadon (34:02):
Yeah, it's an authentic thing.
Yeah, it's authenticity, andthat's what's always drawn me
towards bands like Dead Moe.
Jimmy Christmas (34:07):
You know it's we don't have to prove to you,
you know, convince you to likeit.
It's like, this is what we do,this is what we sound like, this
is what we look like, this ishow we interact and this is it.
So you know we're doing it nowand it looks, and it's this you
know.
Alexander Hallag (34:23):
Now, seeing that you both have different
projects, do you ever foreseeanother making of a D4 record of
new material that you wouldtake out?
Or is that?
Yeah, I don't know.
Dion Lunadon (34:36):
I mean, I personally don't really foresee
that myself, but I mean you cannever say never.
You know what I mean.
But and there's a lot of songsthat we wrote that never made on
albums like towards.
You know the end of the secondalbum and we're working on some
new stuff, but you know it'sthere's a lot of things involved
.
You know, I live somewhere else, I have another project, we all
(34:59):
have families, we all haveother projects.
You know, time is an issue andit's also kind of like.
You know, the D4 was for me.
I enjoyed this tour and it wasgreat and it was fun, but there
was a moment in time that was itwas like really peaking for me,
(35:23):
you know, and I don't know ifit's going to happen again.
You know, with this band thatwas, that was the time.
It's my honest opinion of it,you know, I mean I don't think
we're gonna be playing JimmyKimmel again.
You never know.
I mean, you know, or you knowit was an amazing experience,
(35:44):
but you know I'm into making newexperiences, you know.
Alexander Hallag (35:48):
Right, well, you know.
I go back to Rick Rubin.
One thing that struck me isreally interesting, as he's
known for doing all thesediverse albums, but when he
completes one it's not the nextone, doesn't even think about
really what was before Doesn'tgo to award shows for the album.
Dion Lunadon (36:05):
Do you know?
Alexander Hallag (36:06):
one.
So I'm wondering, like a fewguys, you look at it in a way of
that.
We've done it and it was agreat time and it's okay to do
these off shows, but, yeah, Ithink so.
Jimmy Christmas (36:19):
I think exactly , exactly right.
Expect that purity like this,that that that coming up period
like when we got it together andwe worked it and we we cracked
it.
You know, we cracked the codeand we got it going and we took
what we wanted, what was insideour heads, at our hearts, and we
put it together and wedelivered it.
And people went, fuck, that'sgreat.
And we went on this adventurethat just took us all the places
(36:41):
like down see earlier All theplaces we wanted to go, and we
met people we'd never thoughtwe'd ever meet.
And then we're playing showswith bands that we were, you
know, a formative for us, andthey're saying, hey, your band's
great, look what that's like.
That's.
You know, that was completion,and you know, and that it was
best when it was new andchanging every day and we were
(37:02):
just like this freight trainjust Going through.
Then it got to a point where itwasn't that anymore.
It was kind of like More thesame, you know, or more
different, more the same,different, and that was that was
great, but it wasn't.
It wasn't that just that purenew experience, what Dion's
talking about?
I think that that's Life isabout new life is about
(37:26):
experience and the journey.
So revisiting that doesn't seemto me, you know, like there's
lots of things to do.
Alexander Hallag (37:35):
And music is one of them.
You know, I think, when you,when it freight off, as you say,
do you think that was becausenow you're listening to those
outside voices when beginning itwas?
Dion Lunadon (37:46):
you guys totally, that's totally, that's totally
the truth.
I mean, that's always the casewith bands, you know.
They form because they likeeach other and they have a
common bond and they make musicpure, purely because they like
working with each other and theyhave a common thing.
And then if a little bit ofsuccess comes, other things
(38:08):
start to creep in and kind ofruin it.
It always happens, you know,and but I think if you've been
through that and you can realizethat you can probably, you know
, the older you get, you cansort of you stop that from
happening to a certain extent,because, because you your, your
focus is now just like Doing,you know, being creative and
(38:30):
going.
I'm gonna do something thatexcites me.
This is what I, what I thinkwould be really cool thing to do
, you know, rather than Tryingto.
Alexander Hallag (38:38):
I'm creating for these people.
Yeah, creating for Sales andpeople single yeah.
Dion Lunadon (38:46):
Right with the radio single.
Alexander Hallag (38:49):
So going forward, we'll wrap this up.
What's next for both of you?
Jimmy Christmas (38:55):
So for me, I'm going back to my little farmlet
and yeah, we're the Hamlet, soI've got a little block of land
and some animals and I've gotlots of boys and I coach
football and stuff like that andI'm working through a
psychology degree at the moment,so I'm gonna get back into that
.
Alexander Hallag (39:15):
Dr Christmas.
Jimmy Christmas (39:16):
Well, you never know, the doctor will see you
now and I'm gonna continue toput together.
I'm gonna found this whole.
It's great to I've beeninspired.
It's inspiring being aroundDion and beaver and and Jakey
and and like coming here andhitting have this town and stuff
.
So I've got a little threepiece with my wife, which I want
(39:39):
to get More active as a vehicleto travel around and meet
people and go places and playmusic.
You know, and you know what, forme it's like that circle thing
again, like when I was 17 deadmoon came and I remember
distinctly staying with TonyBrockwell dancing to poor born
(40:00):
and upstairs at Luna, I think itwas and and Looking at Fred and
2d Cole and just going, fuck,if I was their age doing that.
That's success.
That's what success I conscious.
I remember seeing that success,you know, and we did all this
other sort of stuff and now I'man opportunity where my wife's
playing bass and I play guitarand we got a band, we can write
(40:22):
some songs and travel around andI like a fuck, there you go.
So that's what I'm gonna do.
Dion Lunadon (40:30):
I'm gonna make a million dollars.
I'm gonna.
What am I doing?
I Guess I'm going on a tourwhen I get back of Europe with
the new Sort of finishing offthe touring cycle of the last
record I put out, beyondeverything, I'm gonna plug the
air yet.
(40:51):
And then what's happening?
I've finished another recordthat's gonna come out in October
, I think, on the same label inthe red records, and I probably
start touring that in November.
I had a kid 11 months ago, soI'm doing that as well.
Yeah, that's about it for themoment.
(41:11):
I mean, my life is kind of sixmonths at a time at this, six to
eight months at a time.
So that's as far as I can see.
I want to make some more musicagain.
I want to record some moremusic to you know, I guess, and
I want to release More.
You know, the aim is to releasean album a year, but I want to
do a bit more than that, maybe afew seven inches or something.
Alexander Hallag (41:34):
Very cool.
I look forward to hearing yourproject, jimmy.
I'm looking forward to hearingyour stuff, thank you.
Thanks, guys, and you know it'slovely seeing you guys after
all this time and Till the nextone.
Thank you much.
Thanks, alex.
Jimmy Christmas (41:46):
Love to talk to you.
Dion Lunadon (41:46):
Thank you.
Alexander Hallag (41:51):
Thanks for hanging out with us.
If you like this and would liketo hear even more about
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Wherever cool podcast can befound.
Thanks again.
Hi, this is Alexander Halak and welcome to
the Music is Talking podcast.
For over three decades now,I've been an internationally
published music photographer andin that time I've met and
worked with some amazingcreative people.
To see some of my musicphotography, check out
instagramcom slash the music istalking, or visit my website,
which is wwwthemusicistalkingcom.
(00:22):
So join me as I speak with awide variety of creatives,
including musicians, filmmakers,authors, artists and many
others, to talk about theirpersonal creative journeys and
their unique ways of makinginnovative and original work to
help connect the wider creativecommunity through shared
experience.
On this episode of the Music isTalking, I will be having a
(00:43):
conversation with Dion and Jimmyof the Rock and Roll Band, the
D4, from New Zealand.
We will be talking about theearly beginnings and their
explosive live shows, along withtheir thoughts on creativity.
So sit back and hang on forthis Rock and Roll adventure
with the D4.
Thanks for joining me today.
Thanks for having us man.
Jimmy Christmas (01:01):
Hey, alex.
Alexander Hallag (01:03):
Hey, so let's talk about the D4.
How did you guys start and abrief history of the D4?
.
Dion Lunadon (01:14):
It's a long story.
I guess I'll keep it short.
Me and Jimmy first met when wewere teenagers playing in our
respective first bands.
I was in a band called Nothingat All.
He was in a band called theGoodies and we used to play
halls in the North Shore inAuckland.
We'd hire out halls and we'dplay them to local teenagers Cut
(01:40):
to a few.
Maybe 10 years later I'd leftNothing at All.
I don't know if Jimmy wasn'tplaying the band at that time,
were you no?
Jimmy Christmas (01:53):
I was in Cranking Drinks, cranking Drinks
.
He was in Cranking Drinks.
I joined as a singer.
Dion Lunadon (01:59):
I just wrote Cranking Drinks one more time.
I had been kicked out of a bandcalled the Snitches.
Nothing at All was no longergoing, so I kind of started
getting my own songs togetherand met Jimmy at a party we were
just hanging out playing spinthe bottle, I believe, with a
(02:20):
couple of girls.
Jimmy Christmas (02:21):
That's how the story goes.
Dion Lunadon (02:22):
Yes, that's how the story goes.
It's Mandy and Adria.
I was thinking about forminganother band.
I had a bunch of songs and Iknew Jimmy was a great singer.
He had a real powerful voiceand he could sing and tune.
We decided to have a jam andsee where that took us.
Jimmy Christmas (02:41):
I think, as Dion says, when we started
everybody you know we're puttingbands on the North Shore, the
bands that I was in.
What cool.
I was joining established bandsbecause I wanted to do it but I
could see the bands likeNothing at All were particularly
(03:02):
notable of guys that were doingit.
I'm into that.
That's the sort of music andthe sort of ethos and the
culture that I wanted to be apart of.
I went closer and closer intoDion's circle and then became
friends with the drummer fromNothing at All over a Buzzcox
(03:24):
cassette that I found in hisgirlfriend's bedroom.
There's no reason why she hadthat cassette, you know, it's
like what the hell is this?
And so I ended up being in aband with him.
Actually.
So from post the Cranking Dream, we were in A Bit Off, which
was an offshoot of that.
So it was like a punk outfitand I was just singing in that.
(03:49):
And started to get closer towhat we'll call the Frisbee
scene, which was a collective ofmusicians organized around this
guy Cup guys, but Bob Frisbeewas recording these bands and
John Baker was putting on theshows.
John Baker was putting on theshows and there was, you know,
various setups of recording andlive spaces and practice rooms
(04:13):
and it was very much a uniqueenvironment that was going
against the grain of what washappening in the wider musical A
clear DIY collective.
Alexander Hallag (04:23):
Right, right right.
Jimmy Christmas (04:25):
And so that's how we crossed paths.
And then they had some songsand in a way we went and I think
the start of that was recruitedas the singer and there was
another guitarist, and thatdidn't kind of work out.
And I think Rich I rememberRich Mixtia saying hey, jimmy,
why don't you have a go?
And I had a go.
Alexander Hallag (04:47):
Right and here we are now.
And so there's been obviouslysome breaks in between things.
Dion Lunadon (04:54):
Well, I need one.
Well, yeah, when I want a majorbreak, I guess yeah.
Alexander Hallag (04:58):
And that's because you moved right.
Dion Lunadon (05:00):
Well, yeah, it wasn't just because I moved.
I moved because we'd stopped,we'd stopped.
And basically what happened iswe made the first album, you
know, did really well, we got totravel the world and live a
bunch of stuff that we'd alwaysdreamed of doing.
(05:21):
You know, playing DavidLetterman Meeting our heroes.
Meeting our heroes, playing withthem, blah, blah, blah.
And then we made the secondalbum, which is very hard to
make.
You know, second album isalways a bit tough, especially
if there's some success of thefirst one, because you've got
this thing to live up to.
Then you've got these people inyour ear telling you what to do
.
You know you were surrounded bymanagers, labels, friends, you
(05:42):
know, telling you what youshould be doing.
So it's a confusing time.
But we ended up making thealbum and putting it out and
things were just not quite as.
Times had shifted.
By that time we lost ourmanagement, we lost a bunch of
our labels that we were on.
So it felt like the wind hadbeen taken out of us a little
(06:06):
bit and it got to the time whereit was like oh, we've got to
make a third album.
Now.
This is the time.
And me and Jimmy looked at eachother and just kind of thought
I don't know if we've got it ornot.
You know, like you know we, youknow there was a lot of work
putting that second albumtogether.
We knew how much work it tookto put an album together and it
just seemed like a time to youknow, let's just try something.
(06:27):
Let's just leave this where itis at the moment and go do
separate things.
Jimmy Christmas (06:33):
I think we, because we lost momentum and
some of it was our doing.
I think and some of it was stuffout of our control where we
would try.
You know, they really wanted tosign this record, to be picked
up by this big American labelthat had got the first record,
and there was a lot of waitingaround and we wanted to say,
well, if they don't want it,we'll take it somewhere else and
(06:56):
we'll just go back out andstart doing it.
You know, we organisedourselves our own tour.
We had gone through Europe withthe Hives and had a really
successful tour in that regardand yeah, that side of things
sort of killed a momentum and Ithink perhaps maybe we should
have yeah, I don't know maybehad taken a break between the
(07:18):
two records, like a short break,and then come back focused.
We kind of we would run andfelt like we were just on the go
for years, right, yeah, yeah.
So it's kind of but that's okay.
Dion Lunadon (07:29):
I mean you've got to be on the go.
You know, if you're in a band,you kind of got like, or you're
an artist, you make art like ajob.
You know, you don't take a yearoff, you know, and people don't
take a year off their jobs.
If you can't, you got to lendsome money and shit.
You know.
Alexander Hallag (07:45):
Of course.
Well, it's interesting because,you know, for me, I remember
first hearing the name of the D4when I was living in the States
and then when I moved to NewZealand, I actually put the two
and two that you guys were inNew Zealand band and then I
remember that I'd never knewthat you guys were from New
Zealand.
And then when we you guys dothis show a few years back,
pre-covid at the Bath House itwas actually my first time
(08:07):
seeing you guys as the D4.
But now to last night's show.
I talked to quite a few peoplein the crowd afterwards and they
were telling me from differentexperiences that they had.
Some guys say from Belfast,some people saw you in different
places.
So if we can talk about thatbecause I know it's quite
difficult for bands in NewZealand to break onto that
international circuit how wasthat for you guys?
Dion Lunadon (08:32):
Well, I think we did it because we were driven
and we were all.
You know, as a teenager playingmy first band, my dream was to
play overseas and we were bothpretty driven, hardworking
people, and that's what it takes.
That's all it takes, really.
You know even more than youknow.
(08:52):
What do you call it when you'regood at something?
Jimmy Christmas (08:58):
that's weird.
It's natural building.
Dion Lunadon (09:02):
Even more than ability or skill.
It takes hard work and focusand drive.
We were both about that and wejust made it happen.
We worked hard.
We played a lot of shows in NewZealand.
We did get the opportunity,through bands like Guitar Wolf,
to go to Japan.
That was the first place weever went outside of New Zealand
.
They said we'd love to have youover there, and we were just
(09:26):
like we're going to make thishappen.
We were invited to Japan and wewere going to Japan.
So we saved up a bunch of moneyand we went.
That was really started at all.
That was the catalyst for us tobecome the band we were, by
playing in Japan, going overseasfor the first time.
Not the desperation, but theopportunity had been given to us
(09:54):
and we weren't going to letthat go.
So we put a lot of work intothose shows, and playing with
those Japanese bands too Made usraise the bar on ourselves
because they're all so wild andcrazy.
We were like this is what wewant to be.
Alexander Hallag (10:11):
How did Guitar Wolf hear about you guys?
Jimmy Christmas (10:13):
John Baker had brought Guitar Wolf to New
Zealand.
He was bringing over bands likeDead Moon, guitar Wolf,
helicopters.
We were at the time where wewere cut and put our show
together and started to developa good set.
We got the support gigs forthese because it was part of the
(10:36):
scene and part of the vibe.
Then we took the opportunityand these bands saw something in
us that peaked their interestand said you guys should do this
, or this is the opportunity foryou.
This exists out there.
There's an audience for you.
This is how you get to it.
We did other things, like werecorded a 7-inch cover of a
(11:02):
Devil Dogs song.
Devil Dogs was a big influenceon us and we sent it to the guy
that wrote it at, the bassplayer, steve Bass, who was in
Virginia.
He said we love your band, wecovered your song.
Here it is.
He said great, if you're everin America, come and see me,
(11:23):
I'll book you some shows.
Dion Lunadon (11:24):
Record you, record you, yeah.
Jimmy Christmas (11:27):
Then John came to us and said hey, you guys
should play this festival calledSouth by Southwest Us, and the
Datsons were the first Kiwibands to go and do it.
Alexander Hallag (11:39):
What year is this that we're talking 2000.
Dion Lunadon (11:42):
I would say 2000, yeah or 2001.
Jimmy Christmas (11:45):
Some 2001 maybe yeah, and we applied to South
by Southwest.
We got accepted.
Dion Lunadon (11:52):
As did the Datsons .
Jimmy Christmas (11:54):
Then we shipped our gear together to the venue,
to that beer land, because wecouldn't afford visas, working
visas.
Then we just came into LAFortunately, I think, because my
stepmom ran it like she didsome freighting company stuff.
(12:16):
She freighted our stuff there.
We arrived and our gear arrived.
That was great.
Then suddenly we were on thestreet.
I remember it was on 7th Avenueor something, south by
Southwest.
You're walking into One Bar.
There's a great rock and rollband.
You walk into the next baracross the street and there's a
great rock and roll band.
You go another door down andthere's a great rock and roll
(12:37):
band.
It was like this is out of it.
Dion Lunadon (12:40):
Yeah, that South by Southwest trip was very
important to both us and theDatsons.
Another step in the evolution.
Japan was the first step, thengoing to the United States for
the first time both bands went.
That was definitely the secondstep Because on that trip both
(13:02):
bands went to England straightafter without coming back to New
Zealand.
That's when things just tookoff a bit.
Alexander Hallag (13:12):
These two opportunities presented
themselves, and you guys ranwith it.
Jimmy Christmas (13:15):
We were also getting support as well.
At that point, the guy that hadsigned our first EP got us the
album deal for Flying None a guycalled Paul McKessor.
He had gone to the UK to workin infectious records and took
our record with him.
He said hey, this was the timewhen white stripes strokes.
(13:39):
All that stuff was starting tohappen.
Dion Lunadon (13:43):
It was almost just pre-that.
Jimmy Christmas (13:48):
They signed us and said hey, we ended up doing
this crazy North American tourwhere we went up through America
from Austin up to Virginia tomeet this guy, steve, and record
and do some shows.
But in between we had nothingplanned.
We met some other bands, a bandcalled the Deadly Snakes, who
were for a Canadian band.
(14:08):
They said when you go throughthis town, go to this venue, ask
for this guy, tell him that wesent you and maybe you guys can
play.
We literally would show up at avenue going, hey, we're from
New Zealand with a D4.
The guy's seen us, can we playtonight?
We'll just do 20 minutes orsomething Everywhere.
(14:28):
They said sure, we went to bothplaces.
We'd go.
We don't have any gear, Can weborrow the gear?
And so we had some insaneexperiences doing that, as we
worked our way up to the top andthen Virginia was just off the
scale and then we got the callgoing hey, if you guys want to
(14:48):
come over, we're going to putyour record out.
And Fu Manchu, do you want tocome open for Fu Manchu on a
tour of England?
And so we did that.
Dion Lunadon (14:57):
It's kind of like a.
I think there are three thingskind of involved in getting us
to that level.
It was pure hard work and focusand taking opportunities that
arose, timing with the landscapeof the music and the good old
(15:18):
right people making thingshappen Because you kind of need
that.
The hard work, ethic andplaying shows that helps and
that'll get you so far.
But if you can get some moversand shakers on board that also
believe in you, that know theright people and I would imagine
(15:38):
, bands from the Strokes of theWhite Stripes to us, they all
had, oh, they saw the band andthey believed in it, but they
happened to be connected.
Alexander Hallag (15:51):
And those key connections helped.
Dion Lunadon (15:53):
Those key connections.
Well, they take it from onelevel to the next level.
Alexander Hallag (15:57):
You know what I mean.
Dion Lunadon (15:58):
The hard work touring around is like an honest
man's way to do it, but it's along, slow process.
An honest process.
Jimmy Christmas (16:10):
You think about , like DC's, timing and so much
of it, and then being able totake that opportunity when it's
presented.
But I remember the example ofbeing the set of Hives before
they blew up on that mainoffender stuff.
They've been doing it for 12years, trucking around European
bands and playing the cost?
Alexander Hallag (16:29):
Absolutely not .
Jimmy Christmas (16:31):
And essentially that was.
What's so good about thatperiod, I thought, was that
suddenly all these bands werearriving and were fucking great,
and because they had theirsongs, they had their stagecraft
, they had been doing it.
You know you want watching aband trying to work out its
(16:52):
kinks.
You know, maybe there'ssomething in this sort of thing.
It's like suddenly a dooropened and you know it was.
It was awesome.
Alexander Hallag (16:59):
Yeah, so you're playing with people
experienced and polished, whoknow that craft and assume that
would just up your guys game.
Exactly right, exactly Right.
Jimmy Christmas (17:08):
Exactly Right.
I mean, I think that was one ofthe good things as well,
bumping into the dats and fromtime to time as we cross paths,
was that you're always going toraise the bar on the other one,
and that just, I think, made forsome pretty great, pretty
memorable nights.
Yeah, and I think also, youknow, like the other thing, they
took the combination of the, ofthe personalities within the
(17:30):
band and, like when Beaverjoined he has worked great in
school was just phenomenal andjust became another part of you
know, he had the same desire andwork ethic.
Yeah, and you know that was abig one, and so he was the
engine room.
You know, pure.
He was the pure, pure engineroom in so many ways, physically
(17:53):
and also, you know, emotionally.
In that regard, you know, and Ithink, another thing, I thought
you know, respectretrospectively as well.
I think Dion and I we had, wethought we we covered it like
more specifically, like you know, there's in our songwriting.
I think the way that I approachsongwriting, the way D
approaches songwriting, wascollectively made it.
(18:15):
This thing, obviously, and thenalso our personalities.
We worked together in ourbusiness quite well.
You know we were able to dealwith different situations, some
would be more.
You know, this is Dion's timeto drive it, and then sometimes
it'd be my time to drive it andwe were able to navigate lots,
of, lots of things doing it thatway, yeah, especially because
(18:38):
we maybe weren't superexperienced at doing it there
were some, but like between uswe could kind of get through
there.
Alexander Hallag (18:46):
Was there ever a time, like, where egos kind
of got in the way of that, orwere you guys always pretty
level together?
Dion Lunadon (18:53):
I really I don't think there was a time where
egos really got in the waybetween me and Jimmy.
I feel like we were alwayspretty even Sure.
We had slight ups and downs anda couple of little tips here
and there, which is always goingto happen, but I wouldn't, I
wouldn't, you know, I wouldn'tthink that I didn't.
Jimmy Christmas (19:12):
No, I can't remember.
I agree, I think maybe we hadsharp words twice or something,
and that was more due to beingtired and like toured and grumpy
, you know rather than any realconflict of perspective or, you
know, angle.
Dion Lunadon (19:30):
I think we were always this is the thing we
always listened to each otherbecause we knew that we both had
valuable input, so we wouldn'tjust be like shutting each other
down or anything like that.
We'd always try to keep an openmind and, you know, as you said
, navigate this whole thingtogether.
You know, because we knew thatthat's always working.
Alexander Hallag (19:50):
Well, communication, I think, is
paramount in anything and youknow, in some ways you see a
band as a small family.
Jimmy Christmas (19:57):
Sure, you have some days you have your tits but
overall you try to run a goodfamily.
We lived in each other'spockets for a long, a long time
yeah, a long, long time, and Ithink you know that's testament.
The ability for us to come backand do something like this and
what we did in 2000 and thencome and play these shows around
this album is because that it'sstill tight.
(20:18):
I mean, we've been incommunication pretty much
constantly since then anywayright.
Alexander Hallag (20:25):
So let's talk about different projects for a
moment.
You know, are you guys.
What's new for you guys on thealbum?
Jimmy Christmas (20:36):
What horizons take the lead on that one?
Dion Lunadon (20:38):
I have.
Well, after I left New Zealand,I went to America and lived in
New York.
Since then, I joined the bandcalled A Place to Be Strangers
and I was playing with them for10 years, got to keep continuing
, touring, meeting people,making albums, which was great.
You know, I still kind ofmanaged to keep this as a full
(21:01):
time job, which is, you know, ithas its ups and downs, as it
has, but I decided to make asolo album in 2017 and I quit
Strangers the week March 2020,basically the week New York shut
down.
The week before New York shutdown, when we didn't I think the
(21:24):
week before it we hadn't evenheard of COVID, and then we'd
heard of it, and then I quitStrangers, and then everything
happened at the same time, andso then, yeah, I've just I
decided to just go full blastwith my own project.
That was supposed to be just arecording project.
I liked how it was solitary, itwas under my own name, and I
(21:44):
just liked the idea of doingsomething where I didn't have to
rely on anybody else, notbecause I didn't like working
with people, but I just likedthe challenge and of working, of
making my own decisions fully,even if there was not a clear
way through.
That was what was good withJimmy.
If there wasn't a clear waythrough between us, we could
find a clear way.
(22:05):
But as a solo artist it's alittle bit harder to do that and
it just takes a bit more time.
Sometimes you've got to sitback for a bit and wait for the
answer to sort of present itself.
So, but then, after you haveStrangers spit up, I was like
hey, then if I'm going to dothis full on, I have to get a
band together, because that'show I do it.
(22:28):
Playing live is the key.
So I've been doing it.
Alexander Hallag (22:32):
Now just to hear you with your creative
process.
It makes me think of the bookthat Rick Rubin just put out if
you've seen it, the Art ofCreativity and he talks about
with the creative process.
Dion Lunadon (22:43):
And sometimes you've got to step back to see
bigger, and there's a whole lotof Well, I've seen a few quotes
from the book and it sounds likestuff that resonates with me
now and resonated with meyounger as well, when I was.
It's the kind of stuff you knowwhen you're super young, when
(23:03):
you're making music.
You know, I like this, this iswhat I want to do, and I'm just
going to do it and not give ashit.
And then you get into your 20sand you start getting all these
voices and people around youconfusing you.
You're going I don't know aboutthat, it doesn't sound like a
great idea.
And then so you get scared totry out your ideas, you know.
(23:24):
And then I think full circlecomes around and you're like
fuck what they think you know.
And I was forced into a positionwhere I had to make an album by
myself and I realized again youknow, what I like is good,
that's what I need.
I need to trust my gut and not,you know, don't take any, don't
take too much advice frompeople.
(23:46):
You know, just kind of.
You know, go with what you likeand just see that through.
You know, if other people can'tsee that idea, if you tell them
about it, then maybe best don'ttell them about it and just do
it and like present them with it, and then they'll see it,
because I know from working withother people, you know that
they'll tell me something, and Ialso think I don't know about
(24:07):
that, and then they'll do thething and I'll go oh, that was
actually really cool.
So, yeah, I don't know.
Yeah, create a process.
It's a tricky one, but, fella,you don't take too much advice.
Alexander Hallag (24:22):
There's always those things that you can put
it out.
Maybe nobody will get it rightaway.
Maybe it'll take a couple years, and then we'll go oh my God,
why didn't we hear that?
But then you're on to the nextthing too.
Dion Lunadon (24:34):
You know it's a process of you know, not
everything's going to be great.
You know you might fail acouple of times or whatever.
But as long as you're doing itall the time, then you're sort
of and you're pushing yourselfand you get into those brick
walls and you're breaking yourway through them.
Then you're furthering yourcreativity, widening it and
(24:55):
making progress.
You know, I don't believe insitting around waiting for the
inspiration to hit.
That's a bunch of bullshit.
I think it's like what are youwaiting for?
It's everywhere, it's floatingaround.
You just got to open your mindto it and use yourself as a
conduit to let it just flowthrough.
And just you know.
Jimmy Christmas (25:13):
Yeah, I would concur with that.
I think that that was myexperience, you know.
I sort of got to a pointpost-D4 where the songwriting
had become like just at thatthird record stage, songwriting
was becoming a little difficult,you know.
And then I made a couple ofrecords with a project called
Lugabar, and it was a differentsort of process because it was
(25:38):
just like Dion was saying I wasworking with a guy who was a
really good producer, reallyenabled me just to be creative
and not worry about thearrangements, sort of.
You know, like we came back tothat, like we just got a mic set
up and I got a riff going andthen I got a vibe going and I
started singing what I thoughtwas coming out, and then I went
back and figured out what it wasand then it was, like Dan said,
(26:00):
you sort of hit a brick walland so rather than stop and go,
oh, wait for the inspiration,just move on to the next thing,
put, start another track, dosomething, and then go, oh no,
let's go back.
We're going back now because Iknow where I need to go for that
and it's my observation is,it's not sitting around for
waiting for inspiration tostrike, but just being, when it
(26:22):
hits you, you have to be presentto it and do something about it
.
That's, I think you know.
If you get that idea, you'vegot to record it like write it
down.
Dion Lunadon (26:29):
It was in the morning.
You're in bed and it comes tohead.
Jimmy Christmas (26:32):
Yeah, because it's not coming back.
Dion Lunadon (26:33):
You know like you're tired, but you've got to
get up and like.
Jimmy Christmas (26:36):
You've got to do it because it's not coming
back.
Like you know what I mean.
Like I feel like you get giventhat little seed going.
There's a little idea and inthese times where I've gone, oh
that's great, I remember that inthe morning.
I never remember it.
In the morning I've got to getup and I've got to sing into a
microphone or write it down orroll over.
Alexander Hallag (27:00):
Yeah, see is it and see where it takes you.
Jimmy Christmas (27:03):
Yeah, I think I agree with Dion.
So Dion the new project, if youwant to check out what's it
called.
Alexander Hallag (27:09):
How can we find it?
It's just under my own name,Dion Lunadon.
Dion Lunadon (27:18):
It's.
I have a label called In theRed Records, which I've been a
huge fan of since I was in myfirst band, nothing at all.
So it's just kind of like, yeah, like I say, kind of full
circle, I've come around, I've,like you know, done the major
label thing and now I feel likeI'm kind of at a good place
where I'm on a label that Ireally, you know, respect and
(27:41):
they can find my music anywhereSpotify, any record store, you
know pretty much.
Yeah, it's usually a spot withBandcamp.
Bandcamp is good because it,you know, it allows me to
directly earn money.
You know it's cool.
Alexander Hallag (27:57):
Now, if we can shift to a moment, you know
talking about stage, you knowwe're talking about stage
presence.
With the other bands thatyou're touring with, I've
noticed you guys have a verydistinct presence to you and one
can say, like in your case,dion, you, you murder your
instruments.
Dion Lunadon (28:12):
Right.
Alexander Hallag (28:14):
Visually it's glorious to watch and you know,
jimmy, you've got your.
It's almost, as I see it, kindof like two negatives coming
together, like magnets, wherefor a quick moment one becomes a
positive.
So you have that little push,but then it comes right back
together and when it comestogether it's explosive.
Dion Lunadon (28:34):
Not that it's not explosive differently, but when
you guys go separate you both goexplosive in different ways and
then it's like, yeah, like alarger Well, I think it comes
back to the year and Yang Jimmywas talking to before about our
personalities, and to me that'swhat my stage performance is
about.
It's about my personality.
I'm not trying to, I'm nottrying to put.
(28:55):
I mean, I want to put on a showand have people enjoy it, but
I'm not trying to bedisingenuous and I'm trying to
tap into something that's honestand real and that is Dion
Lunadon distilled.
That's what I'm trying to doand that's a lifelong search,
because the deeper you go, themore layers you can cut through,
(29:15):
the the the stronger and morepowerful it is.
And that's where I want to go,and I want people to see that
and I want to express that.
And the way to express that andto find that is especially on
space stages, but being in themoment and not thinking outside
of the moment.
You're in and you know it's,it's, you know you've got to
(29:37):
just let everything else go andjust fly like a bird or
something.
You're not thinking, you justgot a little bit and it's hard
to do.
Sometimes alcohol helps peopledo that a lot, because you kind
of you know, you kind of you do,you kind of let go and you're
in this crazy sort of moment,you know.
(29:59):
But trying to do that withoutalcohol is even more of a
powerful thing because it's alittle bit more honest.
You're not using something toIs the alcohol more like a mask.
It is like I wouldn't say it'sa mask, it's more of a I don't
(30:20):
know what the right word for itis.
It's kind of like a Dutchcourage thing a little bit,
where you're trying to tap intosomebody by using something
outside of the truth.
You know what I mean.
You're just using, basically adrug to create something that's
very similar like that, but it'sactually not really the truth,
(30:43):
because the alcohol is justgetting you drunk and kind of
doing that.
But if you're tapping intosomething that is more honest
and you don't need that outsideinfluence, it's a heavier place
and it's a more honest place,but it's a lot harder to tap
into and it's a lot harder tolet yourself go too, because
(31:04):
alcohol it's easy to let go andget crazy, but when you don't
have a drug or something else tohelp facilitate that, getting
into that mindset is quitedifficult.
Jimmy Christmas (31:19):
I would say it's interesting.
This experience currently theseshows that we've done, we do
our 13 or so shows myobservation of it I'm keenly
aware of what Dionne is sayingis like when you are in flow
state.
You know they talk about acreative or an artistic flow
state where you are just you'repushing up against your limits,
(31:40):
like you're testing yourself.
It's not too hard, but it'shard enough, you know, and your
concentration and your focus ison this thing and your awareness
is present to the music and theexperience and what you're
doing.
And that's when it's thesweetest, that's what you're
looking for and I think that'swhen you get those moments of
(32:01):
pure energy and those cohesive,magical moments where someone
might be sitting a while.
Dion Lunadon (32:09):
The audience can feel it in a big room.
Jimmy Christmas (32:12):
And one thing that I was aware of in the at a
period in back when we weretouring.
Later in the touring it washard because you had there was
an expectation of like where wewere going or what was happening
next.
So there was like a part of me,I remember, like going how many
people have we got in heretonight?
(32:33):
Are they having a good time?
We would like go hard out andthen people would drop away in
the middle of the set and, youknow, sometimes we think are
they not enjoying it anymore?
I think we just wore them outbecause we're just so relentless
, you know, and we wouldn'treally pace our sets so much as
just nuts.
But there was like an objectiveoutside looking at the present,
(32:56):
the stage thing from, you know,and evaluating it.
I would evaluate it while I wasdoing it, you know, and that is
that that's not pure, and thenso those moments when you find
them are really good.
Now, this time round, myexpectation of this experience
is different, you know, likethere's nothing to prove.
(33:17):
It's an opportunity to dosomething really unique with the
unique guys that are involvedin this, playing this music that
we made, with people that arecoming out to celebrate that.
So the ability to get into flowand to just be present to the
music is seems almost effortless.
You know, for my it's just adifferent.
(33:37):
It's just a different, it'sjust a different thing because I
don't know, it's like maybe itplays back into what Dionne's
saying.
It's like you're taking yourexpectation or other people's
expectations away, all of that,and just and just doing it
honestly honestly, and I thinkyou know it's all this being
authentic, really you know Right.
Alexander Hallag (33:56):
So you're kind of dropping all those voices
out there and there was nolonger matter.
It's now about you, yeah.
Dion Lunadon (34:02):
Yeah, it's an authentic thing.
Yeah, it's authenticity, andthat's what's always drawn me
towards bands like Dead Moe.
Jimmy Christmas (34:07):
You know it's we don't have to prove to you,
you know, convince you to likeit.
It's like, this is what we do,this is what we sound like, this
is what we look like, this ishow we interact and this is it.
So you know we're doing it nowand it looks, and it's this you
know.
Alexander Hallag (34:23):
Now, seeing that you both have different
projects, do you ever foreseeanother making of a D4 record of
new material that you wouldtake out?
Or is that?
Yeah, I don't know.
Dion Lunadon (34:36):
I mean, I personally don't really foresee
that myself, but I mean you cannever say never.
You know what I mean.
But and there's a lot of songsthat we wrote that never made on
albums like towards.
You know the end of the secondalbum and we're working on some
new stuff, but you know it'sthere's a lot of things involved
.
You know, I live somewhere else, I have another project, we all
(34:59):
have families, we all haveother projects.
You know, time is an issue andit's also kind of like.
You know, the D4 was for me.
I enjoyed this tour and it wasgreat and it was fun, but there
was a moment in time that was itwas like really peaking for me,
(35:23):
you know, and I don't know ifit's going to happen again.
You know, with this band thatwas, that was the time.
It's my honest opinion of it,you know, I mean I don't think
we're gonna be playing JimmyKimmel again.
You never know.
I mean, you know, or you knowit was an amazing experience,
(35:44):
but you know I'm into making newexperiences, you know.
Alexander Hallag (35:48):
Right, well, you know.
I go back to Rick Rubin.
One thing that struck me isreally interesting, as he's
known for doing all thesediverse albums, but when he
completes one it's not the nextone, doesn't even think about
really what was before Doesn'tgo to award shows for the album.
Dion Lunadon (36:05):
Do you know?
Alexander Hallag (36:06):
one.
So I'm wondering, like a fewguys, you look at it in a way of
that.
We've done it and it was agreat time and it's okay to do
these off shows, but, yeah, Ithink so.
Jimmy Christmas (36:19):
I think exactly , exactly right.
Expect that purity like this,that that that coming up period
like when we got it together andwe worked it and we we cracked
it.
You know, we cracked the codeand we got it going and we took
what we wanted, what was insideour heads, at our hearts, and we
put it together and wedelivered it.
And people went, fuck, that'sgreat.
And we went on this adventurethat just took us all the places
(36:41):
like down see earlier All theplaces we wanted to go, and we
met people we'd never thoughtwe'd ever meet.
And then we're playing showswith bands that we were, you
know, a formative for us, andthey're saying, hey, your band's
great, look what that's like.
That's.
You know, that was completion,and you know, and that it was
best when it was new andchanging every day and we were
(37:02):
just like this freight trainjust Going through.
Then it got to a point where itwasn't that anymore.
It was kind of like More thesame, you know, or more
different, more the same,different, and that was that was
great, but it wasn't.
It wasn't that just that purenew experience, what Dion's
talking about?
I think that that's Life isabout new life is about
(37:26):
experience and the journey.
So revisiting that doesn't seemto me, you know, like there's
lots of things to do.
Alexander Hallag (37:35):
And music is one of them.
You know, I think, when you,when it freight off, as you say,
do you think that was becausenow you're listening to those
outside voices when beginning itwas?
Dion Lunadon (37:46):
you guys totally, that's totally, that's totally
the truth.
I mean, that's always the casewith bands, you know.
They form because they likeeach other and they have a
common bond and they make musicpure, purely because they like
working with each other and theyhave a common thing.
And then if a little bit ofsuccess comes, other things
(38:08):
start to creep in and kind ofruin it.
It always happens, you know,and but I think if you've been
through that and you can realizethat you can probably, you know
, the older you get, you cansort of you stop that from
happening to a certain extent,because, because you your, your
focus is now just like Doing,you know, being creative and
(38:30):
going.
I'm gonna do something thatexcites me.
This is what I, what I thinkwould be really cool thing to do
, you know, rather than Tryingto.
Alexander Hallag (38:38):
I'm creating for these people.
Yeah, creating for Sales andpeople single yeah.
Dion Lunadon (38:46):
Right with the radio single.
Alexander Hallag (38:49):
So going forward, we'll wrap this up.
What's next for both of you?
Jimmy Christmas (38:55):
So for me, I'm going back to my little farmlet
and yeah, we're the Hamlet, soI've got a little block of land
and some animals and I've gotlots of boys and I coach
football and stuff like that andI'm working through a
psychology degree at the moment,so I'm gonna get back into that
.
Alexander Hallag (39:15):
Dr Christmas.
Jimmy Christmas (39:16):
Well, you never know, the doctor will see you
now and I'm gonna continue toput together.
I'm gonna found this whole.
It's great to I've beeninspired.
It's inspiring being aroundDion and beaver and and Jakey
and and like coming here andhitting have this town and stuff
.
So I've got a little threepiece with my wife, which I want
(39:39):
to get More active as a vehicleto travel around and meet
people and go places and playmusic.
You know, and you know what, forme it's like that circle thing
again, like when I was 17 deadmoon came and I remember
distinctly staying with TonyBrockwell dancing to poor born
(40:00):
and upstairs at Luna, I think itwas and and Looking at Fred and
2d Cole and just going, fuck,if I was their age doing that.
That's success.
That's what success I conscious.
I remember seeing that success,you know, and we did all this
other sort of stuff and now I'man opportunity where my wife's
playing bass and I play guitarand we got a band, we can write
(40:22):
some songs and travel around andI like a fuck, there you go.
So that's what I'm gonna do.
Dion Lunadon (40:30):
I'm gonna make a million dollars.
I'm gonna.
What am I doing?
I Guess I'm going on a tourwhen I get back of Europe with
the new Sort of finishing offthe touring cycle of the last
record I put out, beyondeverything, I'm gonna plug the
air yet.
(40:51):
And then what's happening?
I've finished another recordthat's gonna come out in October
, I think, on the same label inthe red records, and I probably
start touring that in November.
I had a kid 11 months ago, soI'm doing that as well.
Yeah, that's about it for themoment.
(41:11):
I mean, my life is kind of sixmonths at a time at this, six to
eight months at a time.
So that's as far as I can see.
I want to make some more musicagain.
I want to record some moremusic to you know, I guess, and
I want to release More.
You know, the aim is to releasean album a year, but I want to
do a bit more than that, maybe afew seven inches or something.
Alexander Hallag (41:34):
Very cool.
I look forward to hearing yourproject, jimmy.
I'm looking forward to hearingyour stuff, thank you.
Thanks, guys, and you know it'slovely seeing you guys after
all this time and Till the nextone.
Thank you much.
Thanks, alex.
Jimmy Christmas (41:46):
Love to talk to you.
Dion Lunadon (41:46):
Thank you.
Alexander Hallag (41:51):
Thanks for hanging out with us.
If you like this and would liketo hear even more about
exciting and informativeepisodes, then please take a
moment to give us a follow onInstagram at the music is
talking, and don't forget tosubscribe to our channel
Wherever cool podcast can befound.
Thanks again.
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