October 25, 2023 • 53 mins
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Have you ever felt stuck in a career that doesn't resonate with you? With an exciting transition from law to career coaching, our guest Astrid Baumgartner has plenty of wisdom to share, having journeyed through such a change herself. Her invaluable insights from her book, Creative Success Now, are a beacon for those seeking authenticity and fulfillment in their professional lives.
What if you could uncover your own strengths and values, and align them with your career choices? We talk with Astrid about about taking a strengths assessments, her real-life students' paths to fulfillment, and the role that just plain 'happiness' plays in achieving your goals. This episode is a treasure trove of insights, personal stories and practical tools for self-discovery and success!
**If you enjoyed this episode, please consider rating and writing a quick review for our podcast!
We have a Patreon site! Support us and get perks, bonus content...and as mentioned access to our #joylovescompany sessions beginning on Nov 28th!
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Mentioned in this episode:
Astrid's website: https://www.astridbaumgardner.com/
...and her book: Creative Success Now : https://www.astridbaumgardner.com/book
The 'High 5' strengths assessment: https://high5test.com/
The CliftonStrengths Test: https://high5test.com/cliftonstrengths-free/
************************
Our website: www.musiciancentric.com, for merch, joining our email list, and contacting us with stories and feedback!
Episode edited by: Emily MacMahon and Liz O’Hara
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Steph and I got to be standees this past week.
Yay, we've been like much tothe first time in forever.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
It's been a really really long time, but it was
really fun.
It was a great musicalexperience.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Also, you had an interesting experience just with
people you didn't know, butknew who you were because of the
podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
We're so glad for every single one of you guys
listening.
I cannot even tell you.
It means so much and we loveyou all.
We love and adore every one ofyou.
Yes, right.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Here here and I will just say too, this is kind of a
funny story about our weektogether.
Stephanie came down.
She hasn't played this job inquite a while and it was really
a treat to get to spend the weekwith her.
But in this particularorchestra, a lot of the people
in the orchestra already listthe podcast because it's just
through word of mouth and someof our previous guests play down
there and so there's somesynergy there.
(00:51):
But it was amazing becauseStephanie showed up with her new
stickers and she's just likehey, have a sticker, hey have a
sticker, have a sticker.
And it got me thinking that itwould be really cool for those
of you who are like our superfans.
Can you let us know if youwould hand out stickers if we
sent you our little new stickerspromotionally?
(01:13):
Yes, we would send you a handfuland you could give them to your
friends and just spread theword about the new rebrand and
what we do and it would help usout a lot Like have our little
ambassadors out there, I lovethat idea.
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I was little gorilla marketing it's like literally
what you were doing all week.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yes, and it was adorable and it made me feel bad
because I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
if you're a new listener and I put you off by
accosting you with a sticker,well, you're welcome because
you're here now.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
It was so great.
It was so great.
I loved it so much.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
This is good to show you what having a friend who's
like a really big extrovert willdo for you.
It kind of bleeds off and I'mlike you know what.
The stakes aren't really thathigh.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
That's amazing, I mean.
What's funny is, yeah, I feltashamed of my extroversion
networking self, because I haveadmittedly not really done that
before.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
It took your introverted podcast partner to
come down and, like I was justwatching you back there doing
your thing.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I was like, yeah, this is I mean.
I don't know you, but here's asticker there's hope for us
introverts yeah, you're alreadygreat as you are.
You don't need to do a thing.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Welcome to the Musician-Centric podcast.
We are two freelance violistsliving and laughing our way
through conversations thatexplore what it means to be a
professional musician in today'sworld.
I'm Steph.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
And I'm Liz, and we're so glad you joined us.
Let's dive in.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
So, as you may know if you're new here you don't
know we have this amazingcommunity called Joy Loves
Company, which we started acouple of years ago to do
Susanna Klein's Practizmapractice journal, and we had a
group of about I don't know afew wonderful, amazing people
who joined us for that journey,and then last year we did the
(03:05):
Artist's Way, which was intenseand amazing, totally amazing,
and we had more people join usin that journey.
Even more people.
So we're looking to breakrecords with this.
Joy Loves.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Company group.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yes, and the great news is that we are doing the
book that was written by ourguest who we're having today.
So her book is called CreativeSuccess Now, and it's all about
helping creative people findtheir true path based on their
strengths, their valueseverything that you're going to
hear in today's episode.
But her book is all about that,so we thought we'd do that.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, and there are some exercises to do in there,
some things for discussion.
It's really great.
I think this came up actuallyin our conversation with Astrid,
but it feels sort of like thisadapted 21st century version of
the Artist's Way, which isreally nice and practical and
that's a good way to put it.
Yeah, I really like the factthat it's sort of directed
(04:01):
toward reasonable expectationsfor what our life looks like
right now and how to sort ofembrace the challenges we face
making a living doing this whichis not an easy thing to do.
So I think it's really great andjust such a positive, inspiring
thing that we would be able totake this journey with our group
.
The group has been such adelight.
It was a real surprise for usbecause we really got the
(04:23):
motivation to do Prachtisma byhaving Suzanne on the podcast
and I had worked through thisjournal with my students before.
But just to have this group ofreally insightful, kind, warm
people meeting every week todiscuss their own journey, going
through something like thatwith a challenge, the life
stories that end up coming up asa result of it, and then the
(04:44):
Artist's Way kind of even justamplified that experience for
people.
So it's really exciting to thinkabout how year three would go
with our JoyList company groupand we want to invite all of you
to consider joining us.
In order to join, all you haveto do is head to our Patreon and
you sign up at the $5 monthlevel and once you do you get
all the information.
You'll get a Zoom link to theweekly meetings which are going
(05:07):
to begin on Tuesday, November28th, right after the
Thanksgiving holiday.
You also get invited to aFacebook group.
We have and really it's alwaysbeen sort of a highlight of our
weeks to spend this half an hour40 minutes with our group every
week talking about these thingsand just hearing perspectives,
and it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
So you're encouraged to join.
Yes, please join us.
It's a lot of fun and I reallydo feel like everyone is going
to be able to get something outof this book.
So even if you feel like youhave your thing nailed down, you
know you're doing what you wantto be doing A little bit of
self-exploration you can nevergo wrong with that.
It goes such a long way, oh mygosh.
And even if you feel likeyou're late in your career,
(05:47):
there's no time for me to changenow.
There's no way for me to add tomy professional enterprises.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
You can still get something out of this, and
Astrid actually is a great modelfor that Absolutely, and also
for any of you like me whosometimes, maybe, possibly don't
always get our homework done.
I don't know what that's like Iknow you don't.
Thank God for you.
Thank God for you.
I just want all of you to knowthat there's no shame here.
(06:14):
Oh no, it's so late back youguys.
Sometimes you just haven't doneyour homework.
It's really OK, that happensactually Still come.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Our group still come you just don't come, because
we're like that friend that sitslike right next to you in class
, that'll kind of like tilttheir paper a little bit so you
can you can see their answers.
Yes, we'll do that for you,that's right.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
And I will also say this was true.
There were some periods, phasesof my year last year, where
sitting down to really like bewith the work that was required
in the artist way was very hardfor me to do.
It was just a real challengegiven my current life situations
.
And yet, week after week, everychapter we would delve into and
we would talk about and I'd belike, oh, I'm going through this
(06:58):
thing at this moment,internally, I'm realizing this
thing, or I'm learning thisthing, or it's so interesting
how, like all of these littlecomponents, the book itself, the
discussions that are had, therealizations that your friends
in the group are having, theyall inform each of us in some
way.
And that's why you know I'mglad you said, stephanie that
everyone can get something outof it.
(07:18):
If you have a great amount ofexperience with this, you'd be
such an asset to the groupbecause you'd be able to share
those experiences with peopleand it's just really, it's a lot
of fun.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Great community, great material.
So please, please, join us.
It's going to be a lot of fun.
And other ways that you cansupport our little podcast are
by getting some merch.
So you can get merch throughour website, which will take you
directly to Ensemble Outfitters.
Lisa will hook you up and then,of course, you can share this
podcast.
(07:48):
Please, rate, review, do allthose things that podcasts just
always ask you to do, because itreally does help, yes, anyway,
speaking of playing to yourstrengths, our guest today wrote
a book.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
All about that.
She did, and not only did shewrite a book, but, oh my gosh,
this woman is just amazing.
She has a really incrediblecareer, from being in legal
profession to arts,administration, to education,
and she's a fierce advocate ofthe creative life and has really
(08:21):
created a place, I think, forcreative people to find
resources that would help themwith their projects Just the
things they want to do, thethings they want to accomplish,
understanding that each one ofus is the only person on this
earth that can say the thingwe're saying, and recognizing
that as such a strength and thatit belongs in a place,
(08:44):
somewhere.
You know everybody's voicebelongs somewhere.
So, yeah, it was so inspiringto talk to her, wasn't it?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yes, yeah, she's amazing.
I kind of think of her as, likeyour career fairy godmother.
Yes, you go see her and sheasks you questions, she puts
exactly the right dress on you,gives you the means to get there
and, yeah, just like has thatmagic fairy dust.
She knows exactly how todescribe the process to you too,
(09:09):
and I just I love the idea thatyou know we're all unique
individuals and we don't fitinto one of these two boxes that
I grew up thinking that I hadto fit into as a musician, like
either I was going to be aperformer or I was going to be a
teacher, and there's lots ofother really cute handmade boxes
that you could be in.
So many.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
So many cute little handmade boxes.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
So we're here to help you find the right box for you.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
That's terrible.
It's more like a platform, likea vehicle, like your mode of
transportation.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Your own bespoke ball gown.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
This is no, this isn't Sorry it's really bad.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
It's really bad we're doing a great job.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
You know what?
Speaker 1 (09:51):
I will say is this was a very interesting thing for
my, like, my internalexperience when we were talking
to her was she was speaking sosuccinctly about some certain
strengths and I think there'ssome characteristics in terms of
leadership I've been thinkingabout lately and I don't know if
this will resonate with anybody, but I've just been thinking
about, like, what it means to bea leader, because I think I'm
(10:11):
not trying to brag about myself,but I feel like I often get
encouraged or placed inpositions where I am expected to
take on this leadership roleand I've never really felt all
that connected to the idea ofbeing a quote leader, because I
have this concept in my mindthat a leader is the person who,
like, makes the decisions and,you know, charges forward, and I
never want to be a personthat's just like sitting
(10:35):
somewhere up by myself with abunch of other people just
waiting for me to tell them whatto do.
That is like a reallyuncomfortable thing for me.
But something about the way shesaid in terms of, like, the
synergizing of ideas, and then Itook it and I was thinking
about these other areas of mylife and I think Susanna Klein
was actually giving me a littlebit of the same concept.
It has been introduced to me afew times and I wonder if it's
(10:56):
this like exploration of whatfeminine leadership looks like,
as opposed to just like quoteleadership.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
That's a really poignant idea, right.
We have such like a patriarchalview of what a leader is,
because men have been inleadership roles.
Yes, but there is a femininealternative, yes, and it's.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
It definitely is rooted, I believe and this has
started to really resonate withme with this concept that the
leader is simply like a conduitor a vehicle to pull the rest of
the team together and thoseideas all come together in a way
that it really works well forwhatever the endeavor is that's
being attempted to beaccomplished, and I just, yeah,
that felt so much morecomfortable to me.
(11:38):
But anyway, I really felt like,without even taking the test
yet which, by the way, we've gota couple links One that was
recommended to us by Astrid inthe conversation, and then she
also has her own.
That's, I think, a little morecomprehensive.
I think the one she recommendedonline is a little simpler, but
anyway, I haven't even takenthem yet, but I felt like, even
just her talking, I was like, oh, I think that's something I do
(12:01):
really well, or, you know, shewould just throw out these
examples and it really resonates.
So, yeah, I think that idea ofher being like an ultimate
person who synthesizes ideas isaccurate.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, we'll put that link in our show now so you can
head over there and take that toyou.
Yeah, we're going to take itright and we're going to share
our results we're going to share, for better or worse.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I mean they're all strengths right, so that can be
positive.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
They're only going to be awesome, ok, ok, yes, we're
going to share them proudly,proudly, that's right.
But anyway, just like ourPatreon group, just like our
JoyLives company group, we thinkeverybody's going to have
something that you're going topull from this conversation.
It was just so electric andthere were just so many great
points that really resonatedwith me personally.
(12:44):
I know with you and I have afeeling that you, the listener
reader, will love thisconversation too.
So enjoy this little chat withAstrid Valkar.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
It's that time of year we're back to school and we
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Sounds like it might be about time.
Yeah, I do love to get in therefor a visit to our favorite
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Speaker 2 (13:57):
Our guest today is Astrid Baumgartner.
Astrid loves helping creativepeople to be successful.
A lawyer, career coach speakerand author of the book Creative
Success Now, she teaches careerentrepreneurship at Yale
University School of Music.
A professional speaker, missBaumgartner recently gave a TEDx
talk on cracking the code oncreativity the secret to full
(14:19):
blast living and as president ofher coaching company, miss
Baumgartner works with artsleaders who want to be authentic
, powerful leaders, andprofessional musicians and
creative entrepreneurs who wantcareer success and happier, more
fulfilling lives like us allAmen.
It is such a pleasure and honorto welcome you to the
(14:40):
Musician-centric podcast.
Liz and I have both read yourbook Creative Success Now and we
are so excited to get into itwith you.
You know we have beenstruggling through these
questions and this journey forour whole careers and it's just
so lovely to read this littlecondensed Think about this,
think about that.
(15:00):
But you have been all over themap in your career.
You've been a lawyer, you'vebeen an arts administrator,
you've been a career coach, andI know that you really, truly
believe that authenticity inyour life and in your career has
led you to where you are.
So I wonder if you can talk alittle bit about what brought
you to this point in your career.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Thank you, Steph and Liz, so much for that very kind
introduction and thank you somuch for reading my book,
because I did pour my heart intothat to help creative people be
successful, Hence the name ofthe book Creative Success.
Now, You're absolutely rightabout the whole notion of
authenticity.
That is one of my top valuesand I didn't discover any of
this until I was well into mycareer.
(15:42):
So I started off as a musicianas a little kid always loved
music and then sort of did thepractical thing and went to law
school instead of pursuingsomething creative.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Sure your parents were very happy.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
They were very happy, very happy, and even back then
I didn't really think of myselfas a very creative person.
I was a good student and Ilearned well, so I did my thing
as a lawyer, but it sort ofnever felt like the right thing.
To be very honest, and in thefirst nine years of my legal
career I worked at fourdifferent law firms, just
thinking, well, it's the firm,it's not me.
(16:14):
But then, when I had two verysmall children, a one-year-old
and a three-year-old, I startedworking for this French law firm
, which dovetailed with mycollege major of French and my
love of French language andculture, and so that seemed like
a pretty good fit because itwas also very part-time.
So I felt very lucky that I wasable to raise my children and
still keep a toehold in theprofessional world.
But as my children got older itjust didn't feel again like the
(16:37):
right fit, and once they werein high school I started
volunteering at artsorganizations.
I figured let me do somethingthat I believe in, because the
law, as intellectuallyinteresting as it is, just
didn't feel like it was mymission.
So I started volunteering atthese arts organizations and
found that, wow, it is soexciting to be around people who
are passionate about the artslike me.
(16:58):
And the other thing that wasinteresting is the kind of
thinking that you need to run anarts organization.
It's a very different sort ofskill set from being a lawyer.
Being a lawyer is veryanalytical and they want you to
kind of stay in your lane, Imean at the very highest levels.
Yes, there are creative lawyers, but not where I was doing.
I was doing a big corporate lawand instead here in the arts
there's just a lot of room forcreativity and for collaboration
(17:21):
and strategic thinking andthose things seemed to be what I
was good at.
And once my kids were about myson was about to go to college.
My daughter was two yearsbehind.
It gave me the courage to sayit is now my time.
And so I left law and was ableto start working for a French
cultural organization andlanguage school.
It's a very large nonprofit inNew York City called the French
(17:43):
Institute Daniels de Francez.
It's kind of a great fitbecause it dovetail with my love
of French, my love of culture,and I was thrown six departments
to run and figure it out.
And there was a lot of figuringit out because, while I had
done some management at myFrench law firm.
I was never in this position,but I sort of figured it out and
it was really interesting,because my definition of a
(18:03):
nonprofit is big dreams, noresources, right and still right
.
And that's exactly what it was.
And so we did all kinds ofinteresting things and I found
it was very creative, becausewith the no resources you have
to be very nimble and verycreative, trying to leverage
people, figuring out whatthey're good at and putting
together the right teams.
And I never went to businessschool, I just sort of figured
(18:24):
this stuff out.
It was kind of interesting,learning on the job, and at the
same time, when I left law, Ibegan joining a different set of
arts organizations.
I joined the American ComposersOrchestra because I'm very
passionate about contemporarymusic and I love composers.
So within two years of myjoining that board I was elected
chair of the board.
So I had these two leadershipthings going on.
It was really interesting, andthis is when I started getting a
(18:46):
glimpse of what does it mean tobe authentic?
Right?
It means doing things you love.
It means doing things thatyou're good at.
It means doing things you'repassionate about right.
And so I was humming along atthe French Institute, realizing
that it was time after threeyears, because I was the deputy
executive director and I felt itwas time for me to either take
on my own organization or go offand do something else.
(19:06):
And then the universe steppedin and I got dance sized because
of a recession.
So that was kind of interestingand for the first time in my
life I actually took a breakfrom work.
So for six months I just said Iam not doing anything, I'm just
going to explore and see whathappens.
And so I met this reallyinteresting fellow who they were
, interviewed me for a big jobat Lincoln Center, which I did
not get, but I really love thisguy who's a management
(19:29):
consultant.
And we then formed apartnership and we did that for
a year and that was aninteresting experience because I
learned a lot about how tostart a business and took a lot
of notes on what was going onand what I thought could have
been done better.
And then I left that and then Isort of wandered around and then
, unfortunately, I had a verybad health episode that kind of
took me out of the running and,interestingly, I spent a month
(19:50):
in the hospital, including twoweeks in a coma.
It was, yes, it was prettytraumatic, particularly for my
family and my friends.
And I woke up on my birthdayand I sort of took that as a
sign that I was truly meant tocome back for a reason.
And literally I was in the ICU,hooked up to like 17 tubes, and
(20:11):
my mother walked in with achocolate cake.
Now there was no way I couldeat it.
But she said happy birthday,darling.
And I went ah, my birthday.
And then I looked around goingwhere am I?
Literally it was pretty crazy.
And so I had a lot of physicalrehab, that I had to go through
a lot of surgery and then, sixmonths after leaving the
hospital, I was recovering fromanother surgery and I was on my
(20:32):
couch and I heard a voice thatsaid Ostred, you need to get up
off that couch and help peoplewith their life transitions.
So I discovered coaching.
Literally, that's how Idiscovered it.
It was crazy.
And within a month, I wasenrolled in coaching school and
I became a coach, and mycoaching school was a very
interesting place because theytaught us great coaching skills
as well.
As well, if you're going to goout and do this how do you start
(20:54):
a business doing this right?
And they said you have to havea niche.
So my niche was twofoldCreative women, lawyers like me,
and also young conservatorytrained musicians.
Because during my wanderingperiod I went back to studying
piano pretty seriously with ateacher at Juilliard and a young
guy I think he was 26 when webegan studying right, I called
him my boy genius piano teacher,who is now the dean of the
(21:17):
Boston Conservatory.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
And he was very close friends.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
You knew him when.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Yeah, he was my boy genius, right?
He's so cool, I love him.
So, anyway, I really had a deeplove for my piano teacher and
his friends and so I startedcoaching them and doing
workshops at Juilliard and,interestingly, my coaching
school.
They said one night we had aclass and the teacher introduced
himself and said hi, I'm Jim,I'm a lawyer, a talent scout and
(21:44):
a coach and I teach, of course,at Fashion Institute of
Technology in New York, and alight bulb went off in my head
and I said I want to teach, Iwant to teach at Juilliard or
maybe even Yale, and I wrotethis in my journal In five years
I am teaching at a conservatory, like Juilliard parentheses or
maybe even Yale closeparentheses period.
(22:07):
So next day I was like, yeah, Imean, really, you know, and I
had not read the secret or anyof that stuff, but I just like
that was going to happen.
And so literally I woke up nextday I went OK, if that's going
to happen in five years, I needto get to work.
So I started doing more careerworkshops at Juilliard and I
eventually built up literallythe equivalent of a course and I
pitched myself to Yale and Iknew the Yale School of Music
(22:28):
people because we attend theYale Summer Music Festival at
Norfolk, connecticut.
And so I knew the director, whohappened to be the deputy
director of the Yale School ofMusic, and said you know, I'm
doing all this career work atJuilliard and I would really
love to come to Yale.
And his answer was your timingis excellent because we need
somebody.
And so I created a curriculumand they hired me to teach the
(22:49):
class.
And then they said oh, and bythe way, would you like to
create our new Office of CareerStrategies?
So I got hired both as facultyand staff at the Yale School of
Music in three years.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Amazing.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
So my point in all this is I think it's really
important to have thoseauthentic big dreams, those
dreams that reflect what youlove and what your values are
and what your mission is, and Ithink that that kind of passion
and energy translates into theworld, like if you're able to
appreciate that and communicatethat, I think people get really
excited.
And this is the fundamentalthing that I teach is actually
(23:21):
what I really start with is apositive mindset.
So I have to say I am verylucky because I was born very
positive.
My mother is a very positivewoman and I just absorbed that
from her and I'm very gratefulbecause it has led me through a
lot.
I mean, I was in the hospitalfor a month, practically dead
right, but I just knew I wasgoing to get better and it's
been with me my whole life.
(23:42):
So there are things we can doto become happier and more
positive, and so that's thefirst thing I teach people.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Can I just say though yeah, please.
It's so amazing to me.
I'm going to back up a littlebit in your origin story, as
they say.
I think this is an inspiringthing for people to hear, which
is why I'm kind of circling backto it.
But you spent many years in acareer that felt like it wasn't
the right one for you withoutknowing yet oh, this is, this
(24:10):
isn't really the path I'm meantto be on, and then you gave
yourself that permission slip todo it, and I think it's
important for that to berecognized, because so much of
the time, I think we get on aconveyor belt somewhere and
people just assume and youalways hear stories of people
who wanted to be a musician orwanted to do this or that and
(24:31):
just never did, and that shiftfor you to be brave, to do it.
I think you said I finallygathered up enough courage to
say, all right, I'm gonna givethis a shot.
And that strikes me a lotBecause I admittedly not that
this has been the case in everyaspect of my life, but I have
admittedly many times been likethis doesn't sit right, this
doesn't sit right.
It doesn't take very long forme to be like I gotta figure
(24:52):
this out, right, right.
It's that courage to make thechange and follow that
authenticity.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I think that's right, and I always say I wish I'd had
a me back then, because careercoaching can really help and
that is why I wrote my book,because process can really help.
It doesn't give you answers,like as a career coach.
My job is not to give advice.
It is not to give answers.
It is to help you discover whoare you at your core, at your
best, and how can we use that tomake your dreams happen.
(25:19):
And then my job is to listen.
I provide a lot of resourcesand feedback and try to help
people reframe a lot ofchallenge as opportunity.
And I think that's wherepositivity comes in it's being
able to see a challenge and say,just like what you just said,
liz, and what am I gonna doabout it?
Am I gonna just sit with thisor am I gonna figure it out?
Am I gonna reach out to otherpeople for help?
Am I gonna read something, takea course, try something new?
(25:42):
And there's no question, Iexperimented an awful lot.
And in fact, in my TED Talk, oneof the things I talked about is
that if you wanna embrace yourcreative side, sometimes you
have to go on a life experimentand just see what might be a
possibility for you.
And that's why there's such aconnection to me between
creativity and positivity andone of my missions in life.
(26:04):
I mean, one of the things thatI did after the pandemic was I
enrolled in a year-long coursein the science of happiness and
became a certified happinessfacilitator, and what I'm trying
to do now in my work is tobring greater happiness and joy
into the creative space, becauseI think there's such potential
for creative people to be happy.
I mean, just think aboutmusicians.
Talk about resilience, right?
(26:25):
Okay, that audition didn't work, let me try another one.
That didn't work Okay, I'mgonna try this other thing.
I mean phenomenal, andresilience is such an important
aspect of happiness, right?
Having the sense of purpose,feeling like this is what I'm
meant to do.
That is such an importantaspect of having a happy life.
Being able to collaborate andwork with other people and have
really great relationships,being intellectually curious and
(26:48):
growing All of these areaspects of happiness, and that
is one of the interesting thingsthat I learned in my happiness
studies is that happiness is notjust oh, I'm in a great mood,
because we're not always in agreat mood, and it's being able
to accept the ups and the downsand then finding the way towards
optimism.
So that's why I always start in.
Helping people is with thatmindset right, absolutely, it's
(27:08):
so important.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I think a lot of us in the at least we're orchestral
musicians, so a lot of thedrive of our career is okay.
I'm gonna win an orchestra jobor for anyone else I'm gonna get
that promotion.
I'm going to reach that nextlevel in my work environment and
then I will be happy.
But it's really not.
(27:30):
It's kind of the backwards wayto think about it, right, yep
that's so interesting becausethere's so much research on.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
I love this.
If you want to give a taglineto it, happiness breeds success
instead of success breedshappiness, exactly Because if
you're chasing that promotion,you're chasing that orchestra
job, you're chasing that milliondollar salary and you're not
enjoying it.
By the time you get there, it'slike, okay, I got that goal on
to the next.
You can't even appreciate it,enjoy it, whereas what the
research shows us is, if you areenjoying what you're doing and
(27:58):
working towards a goal thatfeels meaningful, you're gonna
feel a lot better about whatyou're doing, which means you're
going to be doing a better job.
And a lot of the research takesplace in the corporate
workplace, right.
So if you're doing a good job,you tend to get promoted, right,
and if you get tend to getpromoted, you make more money.
But there's more If you are thekind of person that is really so
excited about what you're doing, you tend to give off a good
(28:19):
vibe to other people and theyenjoy working with you.
So you cultivate betterrelationships.
If you're a leader, you havebetter relationships.
People respect you, all kindsof things.
And then in the personal lifebetter health, mental health and
physical health and emotionalhealth, better relationships,
friendship, marriage, longevity,aging so interesting about
happiness, breathing, success.
So I'm so glad, seth, that yousaid that, because it's born out
(28:42):
by the research.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, and.
I love this too, because Iwould also say and I believe I
got this from my grandmother,because when I think about my
Amida family.
I'm like a total unicorn inthis way.
I was born with a really fullcup of positivity too.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
I can't explain it.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
I can't explain it any other way.
I'm just wired that way.
I know sometimes I absolutelydrive my friends crazy with it
and it just is what it is.
But I've really come to noticethat when we are stuck in sort
of like a loop of negativity,it's easy to stay there, and
we've talked about this beforeon the podcast and done a little
bit of research ourselves onthe negativity bias and how our
(29:20):
brains are actually kind ofwired that way.
They are wired to see threats,they're wired to see danger,
they're wired to assume theworst in order to survive.
And so, I don't know, maybethat means in the primitive
years we wouldn't have done verywell because we would have just
been like everything's fine.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Everything's good you know.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
But what's interesting is, even when my
happiness takes a big hit andI've had a couple experiences in
life where that's been the caseand it's been really tough I
feel like it really is thisbelief or this work that things
are okay, that things are gonnabe better that there are things
for me to be happy about and begrateful for and that keeps me
(29:58):
going, and the more you workwith that, the more it compounds
on itself.
And it is true Like I don'tthink of it as an asset enough,
but I know that you know theenergy that you give to other
people.
It creates better relationships, it creates better
opportunities.
There's so much there.
That's a rich thing to say, andso I just thought I'd go down.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yeah, no, but it's so true.
And there's so many things Ican add on to that.
So there's a really interestingpiece of research about
positivity in leaders andthere's this one characteristic
of leaders who are literallythey have the same exact resume,
same exact experience Oneleader is gonna be four times
more effective than similarlysituated person, the person who
can walk into the room and bringpositivity and raise the level
(30:38):
of positivity around him or her.
And there's a new book that'scoming out very soon by a
colleague of mine at Yale, emmaSipala, and Kim Cameron at
University of Michigan todocument this and the studies
that they've done, which isreally interesting.
And so you and I, liz, we'rethe lucky ones.
We got born at this right Adose of fairy dust, but there's
a lot we can do to makeourselves happier.
(30:59):
There's some research from afascinating psychologist, sonia
Lubomirski, who wrote this greatbook for the popular press
called the how of Happiness, andshe explains that 50% of our
capacity for being happy isgenetic right, like you and me,
10% comes from our lifecircumstances where we're born,
socioeconomic levels and thelike, and then 40% is within our
capacity.
(31:20):
So that's not so bad that youcan use that 40%, to learn
practices right and to thencreate habits that inculcate
greater happiness.
And the other reallyinteresting thing strengths.
What are you good at?
Let's face it, my friends, welive in a culture where we're
constantly being compared toother people, where you get
performance reviews that areslashing everybody down and what
(31:43):
positive psychologists say, andstrengths researchers say that
it's better to focus on yourstrengths, on the things that
you are good at, the things thatenergize you, and devoting time
and resources to getting betterat what you're already good at.
And once you know what you'regood at, you can then privilege
that you know.
And in my class at Yale it'sreally interesting I have my
students take the strengthassessment and then we form
(32:05):
collaborative groups and weactually have a strengths
meeting.
That's what we're doing thisweek On.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Wednesday in my class .
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Yeah, it's so cool Because we've already formed our
collaborative groups and we'regonna have this brainstorm and
then I'm gonna create the to-dolist and pass out the tasks in
the timeline, right?
Those are the doers, and thenwe've got the relationship
people.
Who's right?
No, but it's awesome to havedifferent strengths on a team.
That's the whole point, right?
Because when you allow peopleto leverage their strengths,
then that is half the battle ingetting something great out of
(32:33):
the collaboration.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
You know I love this, this whole strengths assessment
and finding out what you'regood at and giving you the
permission to kind of let go ofsome of the things that you're
not quite so good at.
What if I'm just thinking aboutthis?
How tragic that you have towait until you're in college to
figure this out yeah right.
Or if you're like aprofessional you know in one
(32:54):
field and you're like okay, lana, let me figure out what my
strengths are You're middle-aged?
and you're like oh yes, okay,now I know my strength, that was
me my friends, I know right.
It's wonderful that you gotthere.
But how many people are justforcing their square peg into
this circle?
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Right, right, like if you're a real people person and
there you are in a cubiclefilling out Excel spreadsheets.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
I would never, I wouldn't last more than two
years at that job, for sure, forsure, well so in your book, you
have a strengths assessmentthat you can access.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, so, and I even found another one, so I want to
share this one.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Oh yeah, I see, I'll tell us it's all the things,
it's free.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Oh, it's free Because the one I love, the one that I
recommend, it's now calledClifton Strengths and it's great
.
It's researched out of Gallupwith millions of people around
the world.
But I found this other onecalled High Five Test, h-i-g-h-5
Test, and it's free.
And so the Gallup one gives youyour top five strengths out of
34.
High Five is top five out of 20, and it's a much shorter test.
(33:56):
A Gallup, I think, is 240questions.
High Five is 100 questions andit's not timed.
So you don't have to sweat itout, because Gallup is timed if
you don't answer default.
And so, yeah, right, I knowthat's actually my preferred one
because I think it's a littlemore accurate.
But the High Five.
I now do that with my studentsso they don't have to buy the
(34:16):
book and spend the money.
They can just take theassessment.
So while you're listening.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Well, we do both, then see, yeah, well, I do both.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
There's so much good stuff.
I'm an assessment geek.
I've taken Gallup four timesand taking High Five twice.
Ha To see the overlap.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
it's so funny, but it's so exciting to even think
about that.
Yeah, I'm excited to applythese concepts with something
like auditioning because, oh,yeah, I really feel like it's so
challenging.
In the same way, we're havingthese discussions when you're
training.
In that way, you're sort ofleft to the strategies that
worked for the people who aretraining you to do it and the
(34:52):
general strategies that areshared with you by your teachers
, and they're only sharing thisknowledge with you because it's
what's worked for them andthat's really helpful.
It's really helpful.
But the thing is, I 100%resonate with this feeling of
every time I try to go throughthat process, I'm putting myself
in some sort of box.
That doesn't feel right becauseI'm trying to build a strength
that's not a strength, you know.
(35:13):
I'm trying to exacerbate somesort of weakness to make it
better, when, really, what wouldit look like if we took our own
strengths in these types ofsituations and we just leaned
into them and figured?
Speaker 3 (35:25):
out how that makes it work for us.
So you know, and Yale, I ranthe career office for 10 years
and did a lot of career coachingabout the individual and group,
and I continue to mentor a lotof students in the career area,
particularly the ones that showup at Yale and think, okay, I'll
go for an orchestra job, but itjust doesn't feel right, and
feeling very forlorn that theydon't know whether their
(35:46):
opportunities exist for them.
And then that's my coachingwith them to see, well, okay,
what are you love doing, whatare you good at.
And if they don't know, then tosend them out on the
exploration to say, great, useyour time at Yale to explore and
take in the data.
So when you're in you know,when you've tried a new ensemble
, okay, how was that?
How did you enjoy the people,the repertoire, the whole setup
(36:06):
right, and if you like that, domore of that.
If you didn't like it, trysomething else.
You know.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Yeah, there's a really great anecdote in your
book about Ashley from Australia, Absolutely who you know came
here to get his graduate degree,and can you tell us a little of
the story?
It's so good.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
It's one of my favorite stories.
So he is a super talented,fabulous person.
I just adore him.
He was really frustratedbecause he kind of didn't know
what to do with his career andhe just won't apply for
orchestras, you know, newauditions, and he just could not
motivate himself to practicethose excerpts.
It just did not feel right.
And in the second week of classwe go through a values
(36:45):
assessment.
That's their homework.
This was a light bulb momentfor him because his values were
things like lifelong learningand creativity and
self-realization and he said nowonder I don't want to do these
excerpts.
It just doesn't feel like me.
And again in conversation withhim well, what feels like you?
He said you know I love workingwith our composers here at Yale
and working on new commissionsand premiering new work and my
(37:07):
dream is to do that.
I'd like to go back toAustralia and be sort of a new
music cultivator andcommissioner and performer.
And that just so totallyenergized him.
I mean it was a pretty quickturnaround and he spent the rest
of his time at Yalecollaborating with our composers
because we have a really greatcomposition program.
And I went to his final recitalwhich was just unbelievable.
It was all this new work andvideo.
(37:29):
And he had costumes and all ofhis classmates who worked with
him were all had made this greatmakeup and they all dressed the
part.
I mean it was so amazing right,it was a.
He put on a show, basically.
And what's so interesting is sohe wanted to go back to
Australia and he applied to thisuniversity and was accepted and
not just accepted to theirdoctoral program but they said,
(37:50):
oh, and because of all the workyou've done with composers, we
want you to be in charge of ournew music ensemble.
So he gets to go back toAustralia to become a professor
and to run new music.
And he and I still keep intouch and he sends me videos of
what he's doing.
And this is the funniest thing,because now he's actually
soloing with orchestra, becausehe's premiering so much work.
(38:10):
So he's got an amazing careerthat he loves.
He teaches at this universityand runs the new music ensemble,
works with composers, premieresand solos as a clarinetist.
So it's a great story.
It's a great story.
It's the power of knowing yourvalues and aligning your life
with your values.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah, so from the acknowledgement or the
recognition of your strengths toget to values and then
principles beyond them.
We've had a sampling of thisidea, this concept, before years
ago, when we were in our babystage of the podcast, we had a
conversation with a good friendof ours who's also does
values-based identity coaching,and it was such an energizing
(38:48):
conversation because it's such away to ground yourself in
decision-making.
So any perspectives that youhave asked that you want to
share with us about theidentification of your values in
particular, oh, absolutelyAbsolutely.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
First of all, I will send you my values assessment.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
okay, oh great Yay for assessments.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
We love them all.
Yes, this one I made up, and Imade it up based on the one I
first took, and it's kind of afunny story.
So the idea here is that youlook through this list of what I
call yummy values they're allgreat values and very honestly,
go through them and say so.
What really matters to me?
Where have I made decisions?
Where I've used these values?
Where have I had situationswhere something was not right?
(39:30):
Somebody did something, saidsomething that really upset me,
and what value was not present?
You know that sort of thing.
And so get it down to your top10 and down to your top five.
Now, why your top five?
I always say that values arelike your core principles, Like
if you had a t-shirt that saidLiz or stuff.
I stand for one, two, three,four, five.
So if you're aiming for valuesto help you with decision-making
which I think is really helpfulif you have 20 values, you're
(39:52):
all over the place right, and soyou have to crunch it down.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
I don't like to choose.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Well, I didn't either , so let me tell you that story.
So the first time someonehanded me a similar values
assessment, I freaked outbecause-.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Like.
I want all of these Becausethey're all desirable.
These are all my values.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
They're all A and B.
I have the perfect set ofvalues, right, because I have
that streak.
I confess I'm a recoveringperfectionist, my friends.
And then it was a coach that Iwas working with, and so I went
to her the next session.
She said, ok, what are yourvalues?
I said, oh no, she said, comeon, just pick.
And so I just picked five, andthey were authenticity,
relationships, creativity,excellence and self-care.
(40:31):
After my health episode, I justdecided I got to take care of me
before I can take care of allof you.
It just came out, so it's veryintuitive.
Anyway, but the other thing ison my list.
I'll just give you all a headsup.
There are lots of words forrelationships, right?
There's relationship,friendship, love, intimacy,
romance.
There's also community andfellowship, and so if you find
(40:51):
yourself checking off a lot ofthose relationship type words,
just pick one and then say thisbucket is my relationship value,
right?
Yeah, another one learning.
There's a lot of learningvalues.
Lifelong learning is one of mytop and I define.
For me, lifelong learning meansI'm creative, I challenge
myself, I go for adventure, andso that's my bucket.
(41:11):
So if you're the kind of personthat just loves to learn and
there are all these differentaspects of learning wisdom,
expertise, right.
Pick one and that's yourlearning bucket, right.
And then there's another reallyinteresting one authenticity,
which is one of my top values.
So a lot of people pick thatjust say I want to be the real
me, right.
But some people take it a stepfurther and say, well, what does
(41:31):
it mean for me to be authentic?
And then there might be a bunchof those values in there that
define you as your authenticself and that can be your
authenticity value, you know.
So that would be my way ofhelping people find their values
.
And then, as I said, valueshould not just sit on the shelf
, right?
How do we align with thosevalues?
So I have an interestingexercise that I do with my class
and in my leadership trainings,where I have people define what
(41:54):
a value means.
Ok, you pick authenticity whatdoes that mean?
And then write out a principlethat says I stand for and use
your definition.
Then take that and commit totaking an action that shows that
you actually do align with thatprinciple.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Oh, can you give us an example Sure Of what some
people have done for theiraction?
Speaker 3 (42:13):
Yeah, sure, ok, I'll do my lifelong learning.
I stand for lifelong learningand my definition is I'm
creative, I challenge myself, Ilearn every day.
That's my principle.
So that means that every dayI'm going to read something, or
I'm going to learn something, orI'm going to do something in a
different way, things like that.
So good.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Well, because it feels real.
Yes, you know yes, and it feelspersonal.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Oh, for sure.
And it's not just somethingthat I know I've been guilty of
going to a lesson or to a classand doing whatever the teacher
said, almost blindly I mean,because when you're in college,
when you're a student, you don'tknow yourself Right, going to a
lesson and just doing whateverthe teacher told me blindly, as
(42:55):
if it was a prescription Right,like you have this illness, so
you take this prescription Rightand you do it.
And you know I just did itBecause that was me like a
straight, a student, right, I dowhat the teacher tells me to do
and I did those things.
But you don't get nearly asmuch bang for your buck unless
they're personalized to youspecifically right To your
(43:16):
values, and you have to tailorthings to get the most out of
them.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, that's so good.
I feel a very similar resonanceto that, although on my end it
was like then, faced with thiscrippling guilt because I
wouldn't necessarilysuccessfully complete the
prescription, and I would justthink, okay, I'm this failure
because I can't do the thingthat's expected of me.
But really it's like got theway I'm wired and it would have
been so helpful to have.
(43:41):
But I also I mean, I'll throwthis out there.
I think that's an even moredifficult, I think, challenge
that we faced as women when wewere younger, because there was
just so much more of that vibeof being.
You mentioned that one of theearly projects you took on was
for creative women lawyers.
I can imagine there's a wholesub community there that needed
(44:03):
this kind of support, neededthis kind of awakening.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
Yeah, twofold.
You know it's interestingbecause I still have one lawyer
client.
But she left and she started abusiness and I've been her
business coach and it was just areally interesting process.
She came to me as a baby lawyerin the middle of the financial
crisis, when she was terrifiedof getting fired, and so her
goal was helping me keep my joband so great.
But what do you really wanna do, you know?
(44:26):
And she wasn't sure, but it wasvery much about her strengths.
Let's play to your strengths.
And so, first of all, she wasable to find work that was much
more aligned with what she wasgood at, so she didn't get fired
, she was getting promoted.
She found a pro bono case so alot of law firms will take on a
case just to do good, right, andthey won't charge the clients
anything, just cause it's areally important thing.
(44:47):
And she got put on this big probono case and ultimately left
the firm, as you know, in chargeof this case as from a business
side, it's just a veryinteresting thing and then went
to another organization throughwhich she did her work and then
decided well, why are theytaking all of the fees here?
I can do this on my own.
So she's now got her ownbusiness.
So that's pretty exciting.
(45:08):
So I danced that with her andstill continue to be her lawyer.
Everybody else is a creativemusician, an arts leader.
But I want to go back tolearning and copying our
teachers right, cause I think wecan reframe this In the
beginning, when you don't know,you imitate right.
You'll look to role models andyou say, okay, if the teacher
says do it that way, I will doit that way.
And then, liz, obviously therewas this little voice inside you
(45:30):
that said oh, this doesn't feelright.
And to listen to that littlevoice and say, well, if this
doesn't feel right, what does?
Let me explore, you know, andit just reminds me of one of my
favorite books.
It's this little book calledSteal Like an Artist by a
graphic designer named AustinCleon.
Oh, my God, I love this book.
So I admire graphic artists,artists of any sort, because I
(45:50):
cannot draw to save my life.
And there's all these awesomelittle drawings.
They're so cool.
But his point is steal like anartist.
What does he mean?
He means be Picasso, go to theMusee de L'homme, look at
African masks and then go homeand paint Du Moselle de Vigno
and invent Cubism, like helooked at those masks.
He stole that idea and then hemade it Picasso and instead of
(46:10):
imitating those masks and saying, okay, well, let me see what I
you know, he just struck out anddid it, and I just think that's
so brilliant for creativepeople Steal, like an artist
right, go out and see what it isthat resonates for you and then
make it your own.
It's such a great message.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yeah, I mean, that's what we do as artists, Exactly
absolutely, yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
That is absolutely also something that, if it were
introduced more into theorchestral world, might be
really beneficial to us.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
Because it does.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
I mean, we're really like, in a lot of ways, I think
it's starting to change.
We talk about this a lot aswell, but replicating the
concept of what someone saidneeded to be this particular
symphony, this style, this wayand it's always a little bit
more fun when you feel likewe're all doing a thing together
it's really beautiful andblended, but I feel like I'm
doing it myself.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
I feel like I'm contributing in this way.
It's a challenge because of themachine that we're behind, but
it's interesting and you knowwhat you were saying earlier
about values can drive decisionmaking.
I always say values are therefor the hard decisions.
Easy decisions, you just sortof know.
But the tough choices they haveto make professionally, like
what career path am I gonnafollow?
(47:20):
Like, if you really valuesecurity, the life of a
freelance musician is not gonnawork for you and I think there's
no good or bad there, it's justwho are you.
I think that that can reallydrive decisions, and in
friendships and relationships,very much so.
You see that in ensemblessuccessful ensembles it's like a
marriage.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
They are in sync and actually truly in a chamber
music setting.
You are celebrating eachperson's strengths, and I
remember we had a paneldiscussion once with the Miro
Quartet.
I run a chamber music programand we were asking them about
rehearsal dynamics when you getirritated with each other,
because it happens, especiallywhen their teenager's doing it
(48:00):
and we were trying to point outall the things that ego gets in
the way and that doesn't helpwith anything.
And they gave so many answersthat were like for my quartet
too, we're like, yeah, we shouldbe doing that, we should be
trying that.
And one of the things they saidis basically, they never
belabor any one person'sweaknesses.
If someone is having troublewith a passage, they just leave
it alone.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
They really just leave it alone.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
And they just focus on all of the things that they
can do better, and eventuallythose things work themselves out
.
However, that might look,sometimes they say, like it
takes, maybe they adjust temposomewhere so that someone can
play it more easily.
It's total respect and that iswhat makes it so great.
So when you have anorganization as big as an
(48:43):
orchestra working for thosevalues, that is a recipe for
something pretty amazing.
And, yeah, it's just great thatwe're living in a time where
these things can be celebratedand acknowledged.
I'm thinking about thisconversation right now and
thinking, if every one person isidentifying these biggest
important values to them, we'reall gonna have different ones.
And how amazing is that?
(49:03):
Because that means that, as acollective, we're all
contributing something that'sunique to us, that's important
for everyone, right, it's justreally amazing.
Speaker 3 (49:12):
Yep, and I think that's the secret of success and
successful collaborations isthat the members really respect
each other.
They respect each other'stalents, experience, differences
right and understanding thatit's through our diverse
differences that we can bring somuch more to the collaboration,
to really admire that andcelebrate that instead of having
(49:33):
a bunch of mini-means, becausethat doesn't work.
That's and I think that's, aproblem with a lot of leaders
who are insecure and thereforehire people and surround
themselves with people who arejust like them so they never get
a contrary opinion.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Yeah, because it's uncomfortable to see someone
else's strengths where you haveweaknesses.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
Yes, right right, Right, and if you just
acknowledge Excel spreadsheetsare just not my thing, right,
Let me run a meeting right, yeah, first by a little of my
quartet.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
We'll laugh very hard at that one, because people
love spreadsheets, way to go.
I'm more than happy to handthem off.
I have no problem with that one.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
That sounds like.
That sounds perfect right.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
This has been amazing , Astrid.
This has been so great.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
This has been so great.
Oh, thank you, this was great.
What's?
Speaker 1 (50:22):
coming up for you?
Do you have any exciting stuffcoming up this year, oh?
Speaker 3 (50:26):
I have lots of exciting stuff.
First of all, my class at Yaleis just so great.
I love my students and they'regreat.
I live in New York City.
I go to all these cool concerts, so that's very fun.
I'm going to California forThanksgiving to see my family,
so that's really fun.
Just you know, life is good.
New York is back culturally, sothat's exciting.
I went to a phenomenal opera onSunday.
(50:48):
I saw a dead man walking at theMet.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Yes, we did that at the Kennedy Center.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
Right.
Isn't that an amazing opera.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
Yeah, it was just great.
Speaker 3 (50:56):
Oh, and I'm going to the farewell concert of the
Emerson Quartet in a few weeks.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Pretty epic, yeah, very amazing Epic.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
Epic it is.
Speaker 3 (51:04):
Yeah, so that's just in the next month.
That's what I'm doing, so it'sall good, great.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
Well, where can our listeners find?
You find your book Sure soCreative Success.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
Now Just go to Amazon or Born to Noble or wherever
you get books and just put myname in there.
Creative Success Now it'll comeup.
Visit my website,ostradbombgardenercom.
I have a lot of resources.
I have blogs, videos, all kindsof things.
If you're interested in joiningmy mailing list, I send out a
quarterly newsletter where Ifeature some blogs and some
(51:35):
other resources and just sharewhat I'm doing and what I think
can help all of you, andthere'll always be something new
because you're a lifelonglearner.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
That's it.
So there'll always be somethingnew in the newsletter, right?
Good one, yes.
Speaker 3 (51:48):
It's true, very much so, because I can't write the
same newsletter two times in alittle.
No way.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
No way.
Thank you so much, Astrid.
Speaker 3 (51:56):
Oh, this has been wonderful.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Thank you so much for listening today.
If you loved this episode,consider writing us a five-star
review on Apple podcasts, amazonmusic, spotify or wherever you
listen.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Thanks also to our season sponsor, PotterViolence.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
If you'd like to support the podcast and get
access to bonus content,consider joining our Patreon
community.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
You can buy all your Musician-centric merch,
including shirts, water bottles,koozies and a variety of other
fun items.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
Our theme music was written and produced by JP
Wogerman and is performed byStefan Myself.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
Our episodes are produced by Liz O'Hara and
edited by Emily McMahon.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
Thanks again for listening.
Let's talk soon.
Music.
Steph and I got to be standees this past week.
Yay, we've been like much tothe first time in forever.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
It's been a really really long time, but it was
really fun.
It was a great musicalexperience.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Also, you had an interesting experience just with
people you didn't know, butknew who you were because of the
podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
We're so glad for every single one of you guys
listening.
I cannot even tell you.
It means so much and we loveyou all.
We love and adore every one ofyou.
Yes, right.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Here here and I will just say too, this is kind of a
funny story about our weektogether.
Stephanie came down.
She hasn't played this job inquite a while and it was really
a treat to get to spend the weekwith her.
But in this particularorchestra, a lot of the people
in the orchestra already listthe podcast because it's just
through word of mouth and someof our previous guests play down
there and so there's somesynergy there.
(00:51):
But it was amazing becauseStephanie showed up with her new
stickers and she's just likehey, have a sticker, hey have a
sticker, have a sticker.
And it got me thinking that itwould be really cool for those
of you who are like our superfans.
Can you let us know if youwould hand out stickers if we
sent you our little new stickerspromotionally?
(01:13):
Yes, we would send you a handfuland you could give them to your
friends and just spread theword about the new rebrand and
what we do and it would help usout a lot Like have our little
ambassadors out there, I lovethat idea.
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I was little gorilla marketing it's like literally
what you were doing all week.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yes, and it was adorable and it made me feel bad
because I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
if you're a new listener and I put you off by
accosting you with a sticker,well, you're welcome because
you're here now.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
It was so great.
It was so great.
I loved it so much.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
This is good to show you what having a friend who's
like a really big extrovert willdo for you.
It kind of bleeds off and I'mlike you know what.
The stakes aren't really thathigh.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
That's amazing, I mean.
What's funny is, yeah, I feltashamed of my extroversion
networking self, because I haveadmittedly not really done that
before.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
It took your introverted podcast partner to
come down and, like I was justwatching you back there doing
your thing.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I was like, yeah, this is I mean.
I don't know you, but here's asticker there's hope for us
introverts yeah, you're alreadygreat as you are.
You don't need to do a thing.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Welcome to the Musician-Centric podcast.
We are two freelance violistsliving and laughing our way
through conversations thatexplore what it means to be a
professional musician in today'sworld.
I'm Steph.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
And I'm Liz, and we're so glad you joined us.
Let's dive in.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
So, as you may know if you're new here you don't
know we have this amazingcommunity called Joy Loves
Company, which we started acouple of years ago to do
Susanna Klein's Practizmapractice journal, and we had a
group of about I don't know afew wonderful, amazing people
who joined us for that journey,and then last year we did the
(03:05):
Artist's Way, which was intenseand amazing, totally amazing,
and we had more people join usin that journey.
Even more people.
So we're looking to breakrecords with this.
Joy Loves.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Company group.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yes, and the great news is that we are doing the
book that was written by ourguest who we're having today.
So her book is called CreativeSuccess Now, and it's all about
helping creative people findtheir true path based on their
strengths, their valueseverything that you're going to
hear in today's episode.
But her book is all about that,so we thought we'd do that.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, and there are some exercises to do in there,
some things for discussion.
It's really great.
I think this came up actuallyin our conversation with Astrid,
but it feels sort of like thisadapted 21st century version of
the Artist's Way, which isreally nice and practical and
that's a good way to put it.
Yeah, I really like the factthat it's sort of directed
(04:01):
toward reasonable expectationsfor what our life looks like
right now and how to sort ofembrace the challenges we face
making a living doing this whichis not an easy thing to do.
So I think it's really great andjust such a positive, inspiring
thing that we would be able totake this journey with our group
.
The group has been such adelight.
It was a real surprise for usbecause we really got the
(04:23):
motivation to do Prachtisma byhaving Suzanne on the podcast
and I had worked through thisjournal with my students before.
But just to have this group ofreally insightful, kind, warm
people meeting every week todiscuss their own journey, going
through something like thatwith a challenge, the life
stories that end up coming up asa result of it, and then the
(04:44):
Artist's Way kind of even justamplified that experience for
people.
So it's really exciting to thinkabout how year three would go
with our JoyList company groupand we want to invite all of you
to consider joining us.
In order to join, all you haveto do is head to our Patreon and
you sign up at the $5 monthlevel and once you do you get
all the information.
You'll get a Zoom link to theweekly meetings which are going
(05:07):
to begin on Tuesday, November28th, right after the
Thanksgiving holiday.
You also get invited to aFacebook group.
We have and really it's alwaysbeen sort of a highlight of our
weeks to spend this half an hour40 minutes with our group every
week talking about these thingsand just hearing perspectives,
and it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
So you're encouraged to join.
Yes, please join us.
It's a lot of fun and I reallydo feel like everyone is going
to be able to get something outof this book.
So even if you feel like youhave your thing nailed down, you
know you're doing what you wantto be doing A little bit of
self-exploration you can nevergo wrong with that.
It goes such a long way, oh mygosh.
And even if you feel likeyou're late in your career,
(05:47):
there's no time for me to changenow.
There's no way for me to add tomy professional enterprises.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
You can still get something out of this, and
Astrid actually is a great modelfor that Absolutely, and also
for any of you like me whosometimes, maybe, possibly don't
always get our homework done.
I don't know what that's like Iknow you don't.
Thank God for you.
Thank God for you.
I just want all of you to knowthat there's no shame here.
(06:14):
Oh no, it's so late back youguys.
Sometimes you just haven't doneyour homework.
It's really OK, that happensactually Still come.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Our group still come you just don't come, because
we're like that friend that sitslike right next to you in class
, that'll kind of like tilttheir paper a little bit so you
can you can see their answers.
Yes, we'll do that for you,that's right.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
And I will also say this was true.
There were some periods, phasesof my year last year, where
sitting down to really like bewith the work that was required
in the artist way was very hardfor me to do.
It was just a real challengegiven my current life situations
.
And yet, week after week, everychapter we would delve into and
we would talk about and I'd belike, oh, I'm going through this
(06:58):
thing at this moment,internally, I'm realizing this
thing, or I'm learning thisthing, or it's so interesting
how, like all of these littlecomponents, the book itself, the
discussions that are had, therealizations that your friends
in the group are having, theyall inform each of us in some
way.
And that's why you know I'mglad you said, stephanie that
everyone can get something outof it.
(07:18):
If you have a great amount ofexperience with this, you'd be
such an asset to the groupbecause you'd be able to share
those experiences with peopleand it's just really, it's a lot
of fun.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Great community, great material.
So please, please, join us.
It's going to be a lot of fun.
And other ways that you cansupport our little podcast are
by getting some merch.
So you can get merch throughour website, which will take you
directly to Ensemble Outfitters.
Lisa will hook you up and then,of course, you can share this
podcast.
(07:48):
Please, rate, review, do allthose things that podcasts just
always ask you to do, because itreally does help, yes, anyway,
speaking of playing to yourstrengths, our guest today wrote
a book.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
All about that.
She did, and not only did shewrite a book, but, oh my gosh,
this woman is just amazing.
She has a really incrediblecareer, from being in legal
profession to arts,administration, to education,
and she's a fierce advocate ofthe creative life and has really
(08:21):
created a place, I think, forcreative people to find
resources that would help themwith their projects Just the
things they want to do, thethings they want to accomplish,
understanding that each one ofus is the only person on this
earth that can say the thingwe're saying, and recognizing
that as such a strength and thatit belongs in a place,
(08:44):
somewhere.
You know everybody's voicebelongs somewhere.
So, yeah, it was so inspiringto talk to her, wasn't it?
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Yes, yeah, she's amazing.
I kind of think of her as, likeyour career fairy godmother.
Yes, you go see her and sheasks you questions, she puts
exactly the right dress on you,gives you the means to get there
and, yeah, just like has thatmagic fairy dust.
She knows exactly how todescribe the process to you too,
(09:09):
and I just I love the idea thatyou know we're all unique
individuals and we don't fitinto one of these two boxes that
I grew up thinking that I hadto fit into as a musician, like
either I was going to be aperformer or I was going to be a
teacher, and there's lots ofother really cute handmade boxes
that you could be in.
So many.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
So many cute little handmade boxes.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
So we're here to help you find the right box for you.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
That's terrible.
It's more like a platform, likea vehicle, like your mode of
transportation.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Your own bespoke ball gown.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
This is no, this isn't Sorry it's really bad.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
It's really bad we're doing a great job.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
You know what?
Speaker 1 (09:51):
I will say is this was a very interesting thing for
my, like, my internalexperience when we were talking
to her was she was speaking sosuccinctly about some certain
strengths and I think there'ssome characteristics in terms of
leadership I've been thinkingabout lately and I don't know if
this will resonate with anybody, but I've just been thinking
about, like, what it means to bea leader, because I think I'm
(10:11):
not trying to brag about myself,but I feel like I often get
encouraged or placed inpositions where I am expected to
take on this leadership roleand I've never really felt all
that connected to the idea ofbeing a quote leader, because I
have this concept in my mindthat a leader is the person who,
like, makes the decisions and,you know, charges forward, and I
never want to be a personthat's just like sitting
(10:35):
somewhere up by myself with abunch of other people just
waiting for me to tell them whatto do.
That is like a reallyuncomfortable thing for me.
But something about the way shesaid in terms of, like, the
synergizing of ideas, and then Itook it and I was thinking
about these other areas of mylife and I think Susanna Klein
was actually giving me a littlebit of the same concept.
It has been introduced to me afew times and I wonder if it's
(10:56):
this like exploration of whatfeminine leadership looks like,
as opposed to just like quoteleadership.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
That's a really poignant idea, right.
We have such like a patriarchalview of what a leader is,
because men have been inleadership roles.
Yes, but there is a femininealternative, yes, and it's.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
It definitely is rooted, I believe and this has
started to really resonate withme with this concept that the
leader is simply like a conduitor a vehicle to pull the rest of
the team together and thoseideas all come together in a way
that it really works well forwhatever the endeavor is that's
being attempted to beaccomplished, and I just, yeah,
that felt so much morecomfortable to me.
(11:38):
But anyway, I really felt like,without even taking the test
yet which, by the way, we've gota couple links One that was
recommended to us by Astrid inthe conversation, and then she
also has her own.
That's, I think, a little morecomprehensive.
I think the one she recommendedonline is a little simpler, but
anyway, I haven't even takenthem yet, but I felt like, even
just her talking, I was like, oh, I think that's something I do
(12:01):
really well, or, you know, shewould just throw out these
examples and it really resonates.
So, yeah, I think that idea ofher being like an ultimate
person who synthesizes ideas isaccurate.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, we'll put that link in our show now so you can
head over there and take that toyou.
Yeah, we're going to take itright and we're going to share
our results we're going to share, for better or worse.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
I mean they're all strengths right, so that can be
positive.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
They're only going to be awesome, ok, ok, yes, we're
going to share them proudly,proudly, that's right.
But anyway, just like ourPatreon group, just like our
JoyLives company group, we thinkeverybody's going to have
something that you're going topull from this conversation.
It was just so electric andthere were just so many great
points that really resonatedwith me personally.
(12:44):
I know with you and I have afeeling that you, the listener
reader, will love thisconversation too.
So enjoy this little chat withAstrid Valkar.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
It's that time of year we're back to school and we
are back to gigging.
Even if you're not mentallyready for the season, you can
count on our season sponsor,PotterViolence, to get your
equipment ready.
When's the last time youreheared your bow?
Speaker 2 (13:09):
stuff.
Oh, I feel like it was recently, but I bet it's been over six
months, so I got to get overthere and get it freshened up.
Oh, and I need new backupstrings and an instrument
adjustment.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Sounds like it might be about time.
Yeah, I do love to get in therefor a visit to our favorite
technicians as we approach thechange of season.
Maybe I need a new case too.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
And, as we've said before, if you need a rental
instrument, they're the place togo.
My daughter and many of mystudents rent from Potters and
the instruments are reallyfantastic, even the smaller
violas.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yes, get back to your music this season with
confidence by visitingPotterViolence.
So your equipment will be ready, even if you might need a bit
more of a warm-up.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Our guest today is Astrid Baumgartner.
Astrid loves helping creativepeople to be successful.
A lawyer, career coach speakerand author of the book Creative
Success Now, she teaches careerentrepreneurship at Yale
University School of Music.
A professional speaker, missBaumgartner recently gave a TEDx
talk on cracking the code oncreativity the secret to full
(14:19):
blast living and as president ofher coaching company, miss
Baumgartner works with artsleaders who want to be authentic
, powerful leaders, andprofessional musicians and
creative entrepreneurs who wantcareer success and happier, more
fulfilling lives like us allAmen.
It is such a pleasure and honorto welcome you to the
(14:40):
Musician-centric podcast.
Liz and I have both read yourbook Creative Success Now and we
are so excited to get into itwith you.
You know we have beenstruggling through these
questions and this journey forour whole careers and it's just
so lovely to read this littlecondensed Think about this,
think about that.
(15:00):
But you have been all over themap in your career.
You've been a lawyer, you'vebeen an arts administrator,
you've been a career coach, andI know that you really, truly
believe that authenticity inyour life and in your career has
led you to where you are.
So I wonder if you can talk alittle bit about what brought
you to this point in your career.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Thank you, Steph and Liz, so much for that very kind
introduction and thank you somuch for reading my book,
because I did pour my heart intothat to help creative people be
successful, Hence the name ofthe book Creative Success.
Now, You're absolutely rightabout the whole notion of
authenticity.
That is one of my top valuesand I didn't discover any of
this until I was well into mycareer.
(15:42):
So I started off as a musicianas a little kid always loved
music and then sort of did thepractical thing and went to law
school instead of pursuingsomething creative.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Sure your parents were very happy.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
They were very happy, very happy, and even back then
I didn't really think of myselfas a very creative person.
I was a good student and Ilearned well, so I did my thing
as a lawyer, but it sort ofnever felt like the right thing.
To be very honest, and in thefirst nine years of my legal
career I worked at fourdifferent law firms, just
thinking, well, it's the firm,it's not me.
(16:14):
But then, when I had two verysmall children, a one-year-old
and a three-year-old, I startedworking for this French law firm
, which dovetailed with mycollege major of French and my
love of French language andculture, and so that seemed like
a pretty good fit because itwas also very part-time.
So I felt very lucky that I wasable to raise my children and
still keep a toehold in theprofessional world.
But as my children got older itjust didn't feel again like the
(16:37):
right fit, and once they werein high school I started
volunteering at artsorganizations.
I figured let me do somethingthat I believe in, because the
law, as intellectuallyinteresting as it is, just
didn't feel like it was mymission.
So I started volunteering atthese arts organizations and
found that, wow, it is soexciting to be around people who
are passionate about the artslike me.
(16:58):
And the other thing that wasinteresting is the kind of
thinking that you need to run anarts organization.
It's a very different sort ofskill set from being a lawyer.
Being a lawyer is veryanalytical and they want you to
kind of stay in your lane, Imean at the very highest levels.
Yes, there are creative lawyers, but not where I was doing.
I was doing a big corporate lawand instead here in the arts
there's just a lot of room forcreativity and for collaboration
(17:21):
and strategic thinking andthose things seemed to be what I
was good at.
And once my kids were about myson was about to go to college.
My daughter was two yearsbehind.
It gave me the courage to sayit is now my time.
And so I left law and was ableto start working for a French
cultural organization andlanguage school.
It's a very large nonprofit inNew York City called the French
(17:43):
Institute Daniels de Francez.
It's kind of a great fitbecause it dovetail with my love
of French, my love of culture,and I was thrown six departments
to run and figure it out.
And there was a lot of figuringit out because, while I had
done some management at myFrench law firm.
I was never in this position,but I sort of figured it out and
it was really interesting,because my definition of a
(18:03):
nonprofit is big dreams, noresources, right and still right
.
And that's exactly what it was.
And so we did all kinds ofinteresting things and I found
it was very creative, becausewith the no resources you have
to be very nimble and verycreative, trying to leverage
people, figuring out whatthey're good at and putting
together the right teams.
And I never went to businessschool, I just sort of figured
(18:24):
this stuff out.
It was kind of interesting,learning on the job, and at the
same time, when I left law, Ibegan joining a different set of
arts organizations.
I joined the American ComposersOrchestra because I'm very
passionate about contemporarymusic and I love composers.
So within two years of myjoining that board I was elected
chair of the board.
So I had these two leadershipthings going on.
It was really interesting, andthis is when I started getting a
(18:46):
glimpse of what does it mean tobe authentic?
Right?
It means doing things you love.
It means doing things thatyou're good at.
It means doing things you'repassionate about right.
And so I was humming along atthe French Institute, realizing
that it was time after threeyears, because I was the deputy
executive director and I felt itwas time for me to either take
on my own organization or go offand do something else.
(19:06):
And then the universe steppedin and I got dance sized because
of a recession.
So that was kind of interestingand for the first time in my
life I actually took a breakfrom work.
So for six months I just said Iam not doing anything, I'm just
going to explore and see whathappens.
And so I met this reallyinteresting fellow who they were
, interviewed me for a big jobat Lincoln Center, which I did
not get, but I really love thisguy who's a management
(19:29):
consultant.
And we then formed apartnership and we did that for
a year and that was aninteresting experience because I
learned a lot about how tostart a business and took a lot
of notes on what was going onand what I thought could have
been done better.
And then I left that and then Isort of wandered around and then
, unfortunately, I had a verybad health episode that kind of
took me out of the running and,interestingly, I spent a month
(19:50):
in the hospital, including twoweeks in a coma.
It was, yes, it was prettytraumatic, particularly for my
family and my friends.
And I woke up on my birthdayand I sort of took that as a
sign that I was truly meant tocome back for a reason.
And literally I was in the ICU,hooked up to like 17 tubes, and
(20:11):
my mother walked in with achocolate cake.
Now there was no way I couldeat it.
But she said happy birthday,darling.
And I went ah, my birthday.
And then I looked around goingwhere am I?
Literally it was pretty crazy.
And so I had a lot of physicalrehab, that I had to go through
a lot of surgery and then, sixmonths after leaving the
hospital, I was recovering fromanother surgery and I was on my
(20:32):
couch and I heard a voice thatsaid Ostred, you need to get up
off that couch and help peoplewith their life transitions.
So I discovered coaching.
Literally, that's how Idiscovered it.
It was crazy.
And within a month, I wasenrolled in coaching school and
I became a coach, and mycoaching school was a very
interesting place because theytaught us great coaching skills
as well.
As well, if you're going to goout and do this how do you start
(20:54):
a business doing this right?
And they said you have to havea niche.
So my niche was twofoldCreative women, lawyers like me,
and also young conservatorytrained musicians.
Because during my wanderingperiod I went back to studying
piano pretty seriously with ateacher at Juilliard and a young
guy I think he was 26 when webegan studying right, I called
him my boy genius piano teacher,who is now the dean of the
(21:17):
Boston Conservatory.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
And he was very close friends.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
You knew him when.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Yeah, he was my boy genius, right?
He's so cool, I love him.
So, anyway, I really had a deeplove for my piano teacher and
his friends and so I startedcoaching them and doing
workshops at Juilliard and,interestingly, my coaching
school.
They said one night we had aclass and the teacher introduced
himself and said hi, I'm Jim,I'm a lawyer, a talent scout and
(21:44):
a coach and I teach, of course,at Fashion Institute of
Technology in New York, and alight bulb went off in my head
and I said I want to teach, Iwant to teach at Juilliard or
maybe even Yale, and I wrotethis in my journal In five years
I am teaching at a conservatory, like Juilliard parentheses or
maybe even Yale closeparentheses period.
(22:07):
So next day I was like, yeah, Imean, really, you know, and I
had not read the secret or anyof that stuff, but I just like
that was going to happen.
And so literally I woke up nextday I went OK, if that's going
to happen in five years, I needto get to work.
So I started doing more careerworkshops at Juilliard and I
eventually built up literallythe equivalent of a course and I
pitched myself to Yale and Iknew the Yale School of Music
(22:28):
people because we attend theYale Summer Music Festival at
Norfolk, connecticut.
And so I knew the director, whohappened to be the deputy
director of the Yale School ofMusic, and said you know, I'm
doing all this career work atJuilliard and I would really
love to come to Yale.
And his answer was your timingis excellent because we need
somebody.
And so I created a curriculumand they hired me to teach the
(22:49):
class.
And then they said oh, and bythe way, would you like to
create our new Office of CareerStrategies?
So I got hired both as facultyand staff at the Yale School of
Music in three years.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Amazing.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
So my point in all this is I think it's really
important to have thoseauthentic big dreams, those
dreams that reflect what youlove and what your values are
and what your mission is, and Ithink that that kind of passion
and energy translates into theworld, like if you're able to
appreciate that and communicatethat, I think people get really
excited.
And this is the fundamentalthing that I teach is actually
(23:21):
what I really start with is apositive mindset.
So I have to say I am verylucky because I was born very
positive.
My mother is a very positivewoman and I just absorbed that
from her and I'm very gratefulbecause it has led me through a
lot.
I mean, I was in the hospitalfor a month, practically dead
right, but I just knew I wasgoing to get better and it's
been with me my whole life.
(23:42):
So there are things we can doto become happier and more
positive, and so that's thefirst thing I teach people.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Can I just say though yeah, please.
It's so amazing to me.
I'm going to back up a littlebit in your origin story, as
they say.
I think this is an inspiringthing for people to hear, which
is why I'm kind of circling backto it.
But you spent many years in acareer that felt like it wasn't
the right one for you withoutknowing yet oh, this is, this
(24:10):
isn't really the path I'm meantto be on, and then you gave
yourself that permission slip todo it, and I think it's
important for that to berecognized, because so much of
the time, I think we get on aconveyor belt somewhere and
people just assume and youalways hear stories of people
who wanted to be a musician orwanted to do this or that and
(24:31):
just never did, and that shiftfor you to be brave, to do it.
I think you said I finallygathered up enough courage to
say, all right, I'm gonna givethis a shot.
And that strikes me a lotBecause I admittedly not that
this has been the case in everyaspect of my life, but I have
admittedly many times been likethis doesn't sit right, this
doesn't sit right.
It doesn't take very long forme to be like I gotta figure
(24:52):
this out, right, right.
It's that courage to make thechange and follow that
authenticity.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I think that's right, and I always say I wish I'd had
a me back then, because careercoaching can really help and
that is why I wrote my book,because process can really help.
It doesn't give you answers,like as a career coach.
My job is not to give advice.
It is not to give answers.
It is to help you discover whoare you at your core, at your
best, and how can we use that tomake your dreams happen.
(25:19):
And then my job is to listen.
I provide a lot of resourcesand feedback and try to help
people reframe a lot ofchallenge as opportunity.
And I think that's wherepositivity comes in it's being
able to see a challenge and say,just like what you just said,
liz, and what am I gonna doabout it?
Am I gonna just sit with thisor am I gonna figure it out?
Am I gonna reach out to otherpeople for help?
Am I gonna read something, takea course, try something new?
(25:42):
And there's no question, Iexperimented an awful lot.
And in fact, in my TED Talk, oneof the things I talked about is
that if you wanna embrace yourcreative side, sometimes you
have to go on a life experimentand just see what might be a
possibility for you.
And that's why there's such aconnection to me between
creativity and positivity andone of my missions in life.
(26:04):
I mean, one of the things thatI did after the pandemic was I
enrolled in a year-long coursein the science of happiness and
became a certified happinessfacilitator, and what I'm trying
to do now in my work is tobring greater happiness and joy
into the creative space, becauseI think there's such potential
for creative people to be happy.
I mean, just think aboutmusicians.
Talk about resilience, right?
(26:25):
Okay, that audition didn't work, let me try another one.
That didn't work Okay, I'mgonna try this other thing.
I mean phenomenal, andresilience is such an important
aspect of happiness, right?
Having the sense of purpose,feeling like this is what I'm
meant to do.
That is such an importantaspect of having a happy life.
Being able to collaborate andwork with other people and have
really great relationships,being intellectually curious and
(26:48):
growing All of these areaspects of happiness, and that
is one of the interesting thingsthat I learned in my happiness
studies is that happiness is notjust oh, I'm in a great mood,
because we're not always in agreat mood, and it's being able
to accept the ups and the downsand then finding the way towards
optimism.
So that's why I always start in.
Helping people is with thatmindset right, absolutely, it's
(27:08):
so important.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
I think a lot of us in the at least we're orchestral
musicians, so a lot of thedrive of our career is okay.
I'm gonna win an orchestra jobor for anyone else I'm gonna get
that promotion.
I'm going to reach that nextlevel in my work environment and
then I will be happy.
But it's really not.
(27:30):
It's kind of the backwards wayto think about it, right, yep
that's so interesting becausethere's so much research on.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
I love this.
If you want to give a taglineto it, happiness breeds success
instead of success breedshappiness, exactly Because if
you're chasing that promotion,you're chasing that orchestra
job, you're chasing that milliondollar salary and you're not
enjoying it.
By the time you get there, it'slike, okay, I got that goal on
to the next.
You can't even appreciate it,enjoy it, whereas what the
research shows us is, if you areenjoying what you're doing and
(27:58):
working towards a goal thatfeels meaningful, you're gonna
feel a lot better about whatyou're doing, which means you're
going to be doing a better job.
And a lot of the research takesplace in the corporate
workplace, right.
So if you're doing a good job,you tend to get promoted, right,
and if you get tend to getpromoted, you make more money.
But there's more If you are thekind of person that is really so
excited about what you're doing, you tend to give off a good
(28:19):
vibe to other people and theyenjoy working with you.
So you cultivate betterrelationships.
If you're a leader, you havebetter relationships.
People respect you, all kindsof things.
And then in the personal lifebetter health, mental health and
physical health and emotionalhealth, better relationships,
friendship, marriage, longevity,aging so interesting about
happiness, breathing, success.
So I'm so glad, seth, that yousaid that, because it's born out
(28:42):
by the research.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Yeah, and.
I love this too, because Iwould also say and I believe I
got this from my grandmother,because when I think about my
Amida family.
I'm like a total unicorn inthis way.
I was born with a really fullcup of positivity too.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
I can't explain it.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
I can't explain it any other way.
I'm just wired that way.
I know sometimes I absolutelydrive my friends crazy with it
and it just is what it is.
But I've really come to noticethat when we are stuck in sort
of like a loop of negativity,it's easy to stay there, and
we've talked about this beforeon the podcast and done a little
bit of research ourselves onthe negativity bias and how our
(29:20):
brains are actually kind ofwired that way.
They are wired to see threats,they're wired to see danger,
they're wired to assume theworst in order to survive.
And so, I don't know, maybethat means in the primitive
years we wouldn't have done verywell because we would have just
been like everything's fine.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Everything's good you know.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
But what's interesting is, even when my
happiness takes a big hit andI've had a couple experiences in
life where that's been the caseand it's been really tough I
feel like it really is thisbelief or this work that things
are okay, that things are gonnabe better that there are things
for me to be happy about and begrateful for and that keeps me
(29:58):
going, and the more you workwith that, the more it compounds
on itself.
And it is true Like I don'tthink of it as an asset enough,
but I know that you know theenergy that you give to other
people.
It creates better relationships, it creates better
opportunities.
There's so much there.
That's a rich thing to say, andso I just thought I'd go down.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yeah, no, but it's so true.
And there's so many things Ican add on to that.
So there's a really interestingpiece of research about
positivity in leaders andthere's this one characteristic
of leaders who are literallythey have the same exact resume,
same exact experience Oneleader is gonna be four times
more effective than similarlysituated person, the person who
can walk into the room and bringpositivity and raise the level
(30:38):
of positivity around him or her.
And there's a new book that'scoming out very soon by a
colleague of mine at Yale, emmaSipala, and Kim Cameron at
University of Michigan todocument this and the studies
that they've done, which isreally interesting.
And so you and I, liz, we'rethe lucky ones.
We got born at this right Adose of fairy dust, but there's
a lot we can do to makeourselves happier.
(30:59):
There's some research from afascinating psychologist, sonia
Lubomirski, who wrote this greatbook for the popular press
called the how of Happiness, andshe explains that 50% of our
capacity for being happy isgenetic right, like you and me,
10% comes from our lifecircumstances where we're born,
socioeconomic levels and thelike, and then 40% is within our
capacity.
(31:20):
So that's not so bad that youcan use that 40%, to learn
practices right and to thencreate habits that inculcate
greater happiness.
And the other reallyinteresting thing strengths.
What are you good at?
Let's face it, my friends, welive in a culture where we're
constantly being compared toother people, where you get
performance reviews that areslashing everybody down and what
(31:43):
positive psychologists say, andstrengths researchers say that
it's better to focus on yourstrengths, on the things that
you are good at, the things thatenergize you, and devoting time
and resources to getting betterat what you're already good at.
And once you know what you'regood at, you can then privilege
that you know.
And in my class at Yale it'sreally interesting I have my
students take the strengthassessment and then we form
(32:05):
collaborative groups and weactually have a strengths
meeting.
That's what we're doing thisweek On.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Wednesday in my class .
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Yeah, it's so cool Because we've already formed our
collaborative groups and we'regonna have this brainstorm and
then I'm gonna create the to-dolist and pass out the tasks in
the timeline, right?
Those are the doers, and thenwe've got the relationship
people.
Who's right?
No, but it's awesome to havedifferent strengths on a team.
That's the whole point, right?
Because when you allow peopleto leverage their strengths,
then that is half the battle ingetting something great out of
(32:33):
the collaboration.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
You know I love this, this whole strengths assessment
and finding out what you'regood at and giving you the
permission to kind of let go ofsome of the things that you're
not quite so good at.
What if I'm just thinking aboutthis?
How tragic that you have towait until you're in college to
figure this out yeah right.
Or if you're like aprofessional you know in one
(32:54):
field and you're like okay, lana, let me figure out what my
strengths are You're middle-aged?
and you're like oh yes, okay,now I know my strength, that was
me my friends, I know right.
It's wonderful that you gotthere.
But how many people are justforcing their square peg into
this circle?
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Right, right, like if you're a real people person and
there you are in a cubiclefilling out Excel spreadsheets.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
I would never, I wouldn't last more than two
years at that job, for sure, forsure, well so in your book, you
have a strengths assessmentthat you can access.
Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, so, and I even found another one, so I want to
share this one.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
Oh yeah, I see, I'll tell us it's all the things,
it's free.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Oh, it's free Because the one I love, the one that I
recommend, it's now calledClifton Strengths and it's great
.
It's researched out of Gallupwith millions of people around
the world.
But I found this other onecalled High Five Test, h-i-g-h-5
Test, and it's free.
And so the Gallup one gives youyour top five strengths out of
34.
High Five is top five out of 20, and it's a much shorter test.
(33:56):
A Gallup, I think, is 240questions.
High Five is 100 questions andit's not timed.
So you don't have to sweat itout, because Gallup is timed if
you don't answer default.
And so, yeah, right, I knowthat's actually my preferred one
because I think it's a littlemore accurate.
But the High Five.
I now do that with my studentsso they don't have to buy the
(34:16):
book and spend the money.
They can just take theassessment.
So while you're listening.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Well, we do both, then see, yeah, well, I do both.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
There's so much good stuff.
I'm an assessment geek.
I've taken Gallup four timesand taking High Five twice.
Ha To see the overlap.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
it's so funny, but it's so exciting to even think
about that.
Yeah, I'm excited to applythese concepts with something
like auditioning because, oh,yeah, I really feel like it's so
challenging.
In the same way, we're havingthese discussions when you're
training.
In that way, you're sort ofleft to the strategies that
worked for the people who aretraining you to do it and the
(34:52):
general strategies that areshared with you by your teachers
, and they're only sharing thisknowledge with you because it's
what's worked for them andthat's really helpful.
It's really helpful.
But the thing is, I 100%resonate with this feeling of
every time I try to go throughthat process, I'm putting myself
in some sort of box.
That doesn't feel right becauseI'm trying to build a strength
that's not a strength, you know.
(35:13):
I'm trying to exacerbate somesort of weakness to make it
better, when, really, what wouldit look like if we took our own
strengths in these types ofsituations and we just leaned
into them and figured?
Speaker 3 (35:25):
out how that makes it work for us.
So you know, and Yale, I ranthe career office for 10 years
and did a lot of career coachingabout the individual and group,
and I continue to mentor a lotof students in the career area,
particularly the ones that showup at Yale and think, okay, I'll
go for an orchestra job, but itjust doesn't feel right, and
feeling very forlorn that theydon't know whether their
(35:46):
opportunities exist for them.
And then that's my coachingwith them to see, well, okay,
what are you love doing, whatare you good at.
And if they don't know, then tosend them out on the
exploration to say, great, useyour time at Yale to explore and
take in the data.
So when you're in you know,when you've tried a new ensemble
, okay, how was that?
How did you enjoy the people,the repertoire, the whole setup
(36:06):
right, and if you like that, domore of that.
If you didn't like it, trysomething else.
You know.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
Yeah, there's a really great anecdote in your
book about Ashley from Australia, Absolutely who you know came
here to get his graduate degree,and can you tell us a little of
the story?
It's so good.
Speaker 3 (36:25):
It's one of my favorite stories.
So he is a super talented,fabulous person.
I just adore him.
He was really frustratedbecause he kind of didn't know
what to do with his career andhe just won't apply for
orchestras, you know, newauditions, and he just could not
motivate himself to practicethose excerpts.
It just did not feel right.
And in the second week of classwe go through a values
(36:45):
assessment.
That's their homework.
This was a light bulb momentfor him because his values were
things like lifelong learningand creativity and
self-realization and he said nowonder I don't want to do these
excerpts.
It just doesn't feel like me.
And again in conversation withhim well, what feels like you?
He said you know I love workingwith our composers here at Yale
and working on new commissionsand premiering new work and my
(37:07):
dream is to do that.
I'd like to go back toAustralia and be sort of a new
music cultivator andcommissioner and performer.
And that just so totallyenergized him.
I mean it was a pretty quickturnaround and he spent the rest
of his time at Yalecollaborating with our composers
because we have a really greatcomposition program.
And I went to his final recitalwhich was just unbelievable.
It was all this new work andvideo.
(37:29):
And he had costumes and all ofhis classmates who worked with
him were all had made this greatmakeup and they all dressed the
part.
I mean it was so amazing right,it was a.
He put on a show, basically.
And what's so interesting is sohe wanted to go back to
Australia and he applied to thisuniversity and was accepted and
not just accepted to theirdoctoral program but they said,
(37:50):
oh, and because of all the workyou've done with composers, we
want you to be in charge of ournew music ensemble.
So he gets to go back toAustralia to become a professor
and to run new music.
And he and I still keep intouch and he sends me videos of
what he's doing.
And this is the funniest thing,because now he's actually
soloing with orchestra, becausehe's premiering so much work.
(38:10):
So he's got an amazing careerthat he loves.
He teaches at this universityand runs the new music ensemble,
works with composers, premieresand solos as a clarinetist.
So it's a great story.
It's a great story.
It's the power of knowing yourvalues and aligning your life
with your values.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Yeah, so from the acknowledgement or the
recognition of your strengths toget to values and then
principles beyond them.
We've had a sampling of thisidea, this concept, before years
ago, when we were in our babystage of the podcast, we had a
conversation with a good friendof ours who's also does
values-based identity coaching,and it was such an energizing
(38:48):
conversation because it's such away to ground yourself in
decision-making.
So any perspectives that youhave asked that you want to
share with us about theidentification of your values in
particular, oh, absolutelyAbsolutely.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
First of all, I will send you my values assessment.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
okay, oh great Yay for assessments.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
We love them all.
Yes, this one I made up, and Imade it up based on the one I
first took, and it's kind of afunny story.
So the idea here is that youlook through this list of what I
call yummy values they're allgreat values and very honestly,
go through them and say so.
What really matters to me?
Where have I made decisions?
Where I've used these values?
Where have I had situationswhere something was not right?
(39:30):
Somebody did something, saidsomething that really upset me,
and what value was not present?
You know that sort of thing.
And so get it down to your top10 and down to your top five.
Now, why your top five?
I always say that values arelike your core principles, Like
if you had a t-shirt that saidLiz or stuff.
I stand for one, two, three,four, five.
So if you're aiming for valuesto help you with decision-making
which I think is really helpfulif you have 20 values, you're
(39:52):
all over the place right, and soyou have to crunch it down.
Speaker 1 (39:55):
I don't like to choose.
Speaker 3 (39:57):
Well, I didn't either , so let me tell you that story.
So the first time someonehanded me a similar values
assessment, I freaked outbecause-.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Like.
I want all of these Becausethey're all desirable.
These are all my values.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
They're all A and B.
I have the perfect set ofvalues, right, because I have
that streak.
I confess I'm a recoveringperfectionist, my friends.
And then it was a coach that Iwas working with, and so I went
to her the next session.
She said, ok, what are yourvalues?
I said, oh no, she said, comeon, just pick.
And so I just picked five, andthey were authenticity,
relationships, creativity,excellence and self-care.
(40:31):
After my health episode, I justdecided I got to take care of me
before I can take care of allof you.
It just came out, so it's veryintuitive.
Anyway, but the other thing ison my list.
I'll just give you all a headsup.
There are lots of words forrelationships, right?
There's relationship,friendship, love, intimacy,
romance.
There's also community andfellowship, and so if you find
(40:51):
yourself checking off a lot ofthose relationship type words,
just pick one and then say thisbucket is my relationship value,
right?
Yeah, another one learning.
There's a lot of learningvalues.
Lifelong learning is one of mytop and I define.
For me, lifelong learning meansI'm creative, I challenge
myself, I go for adventure, andso that's my bucket.
(41:11):
So if you're the kind of personthat just loves to learn and
there are all these differentaspects of learning wisdom,
expertise, right.
Pick one and that's yourlearning bucket, right.
And then there's another reallyinteresting one authenticity,
which is one of my top values.
So a lot of people pick thatjust say I want to be the real
me, right.
But some people take it a stepfurther and say, well, what does
(41:31):
it mean for me to be authentic?
And then there might be a bunchof those values in there that
define you as your authenticself and that can be your
authenticity value, you know.
So that would be my way ofhelping people find their values
.
And then, as I said, valueshould not just sit on the shelf
, right?
How do we align with thosevalues?
So I have an interestingexercise that I do with my class
and in my leadership trainings,where I have people define what
(41:54):
a value means.
Ok, you pick authenticity whatdoes that mean?
And then write out a principlethat says I stand for and use
your definition.
Then take that and commit totaking an action that shows that
you actually do align with thatprinciple.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
Oh, can you give us an example Sure Of what some
people have done for theiraction?
Speaker 3 (42:13):
Yeah, sure, ok, I'll do my lifelong learning.
I stand for lifelong learningand my definition is I'm
creative, I challenge myself, Ilearn every day.
That's my principle.
So that means that every dayI'm going to read something, or
I'm going to learn something, orI'm going to do something in a
different way, things like that.
So good.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Well, because it feels real.
Yes, you know yes, and it feelspersonal.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Oh, for sure.
And it's not just somethingthat I know I've been guilty of
going to a lesson or to a classand doing whatever the teacher
said, almost blindly I mean,because when you're in college,
when you're a student, you don'tknow yourself Right, going to a
lesson and just doing whateverthe teacher told me blindly, as
(42:55):
if it was a prescription Right,like you have this illness, so
you take this prescription Rightand you do it.
And you know I just did itBecause that was me like a
straight, a student, right, I dowhat the teacher tells me to do
and I did those things.
But you don't get nearly asmuch bang for your buck unless
they're personalized to youspecifically right To your
(43:16):
values, and you have to tailorthings to get the most out of
them.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, that's so good.
I feel a very similar resonanceto that, although on my end it
was like then, faced with thiscrippling guilt because I
wouldn't necessarilysuccessfully complete the
prescription, and I would justthink, okay, I'm this failure
because I can't do the thingthat's expected of me.
But really it's like got theway I'm wired and it would have
been so helpful to have.
(43:41):
But I also I mean, I'll throwthis out there.
I think that's an even moredifficult, I think, challenge
that we faced as women when wewere younger, because there was
just so much more of that vibeof being.
You mentioned that one of theearly projects you took on was
for creative women lawyers.
I can imagine there's a wholesub community there that needed
(44:03):
this kind of support, neededthis kind of awakening.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
Yeah, twofold.
You know it's interestingbecause I still have one lawyer
client.
But she left and she started abusiness and I've been her
business coach and it was just areally interesting process.
She came to me as a baby lawyerin the middle of the financial
crisis, when she was terrifiedof getting fired, and so her
goal was helping me keep my joband so great.
But what do you really wanna do, you know?
(44:26):
And she wasn't sure, but it wasvery much about her strengths.
Let's play to your strengths.
And so, first of all, she wasable to find work that was much
more aligned with what she wasgood at, so she didn't get fired
, she was getting promoted.
She found a pro bono case so alot of law firms will take on a
case just to do good, right, andthey won't charge the clients
anything, just cause it's areally important thing.
(44:47):
And she got put on this big probono case and ultimately left
the firm, as you know, in chargeof this case as from a business
side, it's just a veryinteresting thing and then went
to another organization throughwhich she did her work and then
decided well, why are theytaking all of the fees here?
I can do this on my own.
So she's now got her ownbusiness.
So that's pretty exciting.
(45:08):
So I danced that with her andstill continue to be her lawyer.
Everybody else is a creativemusician, an arts leader.
But I want to go back tolearning and copying our
teachers right, cause I think wecan reframe this In the
beginning, when you don't know,you imitate right.
You'll look to role models andyou say, okay, if the teacher
says do it that way, I will doit that way.
And then, liz, obviously therewas this little voice inside you
(45:30):
that said oh, this doesn't feelright.
And to listen to that littlevoice and say, well, if this
doesn't feel right, what does?
Let me explore, you know, andit just reminds me of one of my
favorite books.
It's this little book calledSteal Like an Artist by a
graphic designer named AustinCleon.
Oh, my God, I love this book.
So I admire graphic artists,artists of any sort, because I
(45:50):
cannot draw to save my life.
And there's all these awesomelittle drawings.
They're so cool.
But his point is steal like anartist.
What does he mean?
He means be Picasso, go to theMusee de L'homme, look at
African masks and then go homeand paint Du Moselle de Vigno
and invent Cubism, like helooked at those masks.
He stole that idea and then hemade it Picasso and instead of
(46:10):
imitating those masks and saying, okay, well, let me see what I
you know, he just struck out anddid it, and I just think that's
so brilliant for creativepeople Steal, like an artist
right, go out and see what it isthat resonates for you and then
make it your own.
It's such a great message.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yeah, I mean, that's what we do as artists, Exactly
absolutely, yeah, 100%.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
That is absolutely also something that, if it were
introduced more into theorchestral world, might be
really beneficial to us.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
Because it does.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
I mean, we're really like, in a lot of ways, I think
it's starting to change.
We talk about this a lot aswell, but replicating the
concept of what someone saidneeded to be this particular
symphony, this style, this wayand it's always a little bit
more fun when you feel likewe're all doing a thing together
it's really beautiful andblended, but I feel like I'm
doing it myself.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
I feel like I'm contributing in this way.
It's a challenge because of themachine that we're behind, but
it's interesting and you knowwhat you were saying earlier
about values can drive decisionmaking.
I always say values are therefor the hard decisions.
Easy decisions, you just sortof know.
But the tough choices they haveto make professionally, like
what career path am I gonnafollow?
(47:20):
Like, if you really valuesecurity, the life of a
freelance musician is not gonnawork for you and I think there's
no good or bad there, it's justwho are you.
I think that that can reallydrive decisions, and in
friendships and relationships,very much so.
You see that in ensemblessuccessful ensembles it's like a
marriage.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
They are in sync and actually truly in a chamber
music setting.
You are celebrating eachperson's strengths, and I
remember we had a paneldiscussion once with the Miro
Quartet.
I run a chamber music programand we were asking them about
rehearsal dynamics when you getirritated with each other,
because it happens, especiallywhen their teenager's doing it
(48:00):
and we were trying to point outall the things that ego gets in
the way and that doesn't helpwith anything.
And they gave so many answersthat were like for my quartet
too, we're like, yeah, we shouldbe doing that, we should be
trying that.
And one of the things they saidis basically, they never
belabor any one person'sweaknesses.
If someone is having troublewith a passage, they just leave
it alone.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
They really just leave it alone.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
And they just focus on all of the things that they
can do better, and eventuallythose things work themselves out
.
However, that might look,sometimes they say, like it
takes, maybe they adjust temposomewhere so that someone can
play it more easily.
It's total respect and that iswhat makes it so great.
So when you have anorganization as big as an
(48:43):
orchestra working for thosevalues, that is a recipe for
something pretty amazing.
And, yeah, it's just great thatwe're living in a time where
these things can be celebratedand acknowledged.
I'm thinking about thisconversation right now and
thinking, if every one person isidentifying these biggest
important values to them, we'reall gonna have different ones.
And how amazing is that?
(49:03):
Because that means that, as acollective, we're all
contributing something that'sunique to us, that's important
for everyone, right, it's justreally amazing.
Speaker 3 (49:12):
Yep, and I think that's the secret of success and
successful collaborations isthat the members really respect
each other.
They respect each other'stalents, experience, differences
right and understanding thatit's through our diverse
differences that we can bring somuch more to the collaboration,
to really admire that andcelebrate that instead of having
(49:33):
a bunch of mini-means, becausethat doesn't work.
That's and I think that's, aproblem with a lot of leaders
who are insecure and thereforehire people and surround
themselves with people who arejust like them so they never get
a contrary opinion.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Yeah, because it's uncomfortable to see someone
else's strengths where you haveweaknesses.
Speaker 3 (49:51):
Yes, right right, Right, and if you just
acknowledge Excel spreadsheetsare just not my thing, right,
Let me run a meeting right, yeah, first by a little of my
quartet.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
We'll laugh very hard at that one, because people
love spreadsheets, way to go.
I'm more than happy to handthem off.
I have no problem with that one.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
That sounds like.
That sounds perfect right.
Speaker 1 (50:17):
This has been amazing , Astrid.
This has been so great.
Speaker 2 (50:19):
This has been so great.
Oh, thank you, this was great.
What's?
Speaker 1 (50:22):
coming up for you?
Do you have any exciting stuffcoming up this year, oh?
Speaker 3 (50:26):
I have lots of exciting stuff.
First of all, my class at Yaleis just so great.
I love my students and they'regreat.
I live in New York City.
I go to all these cool concerts, so that's very fun.
I'm going to California forThanksgiving to see my family,
so that's really fun.
Just you know, life is good.
New York is back culturally, sothat's exciting.
I went to a phenomenal opera onSunday.
(50:48):
I saw a dead man walking at theMet.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Yes, we did that at the Kennedy Center.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
Right.
Isn't that an amazing opera.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
Yeah, it was just great.
Speaker 3 (50:56):
Oh, and I'm going to the farewell concert of the
Emerson Quartet in a few weeks.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Pretty epic, yeah, very amazing Epic.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
Epic it is.
Speaker 3 (51:04):
Yeah, so that's just in the next month.
That's what I'm doing, so it'sall good, great.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
Well, where can our listeners find?
You find your book Sure soCreative Success.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
Now Just go to Amazon or Born to Noble or wherever
you get books and just put myname in there.
Creative Success Now it'll comeup.
Visit my website,ostradbombgardenercom.
I have a lot of resources.
I have blogs, videos, all kindsof things.
If you're interested in joiningmy mailing list, I send out a
quarterly newsletter where Ifeature some blogs and some
(51:35):
other resources and just sharewhat I'm doing and what I think
can help all of you, andthere'll always be something new
because you're a lifelonglearner.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
That's it.
So there'll always be somethingnew in the newsletter, right?
Good one, yes.
Speaker 3 (51:48):
It's true, very much so, because I can't write the
same newsletter two times in alittle.
No way.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
No way.
Thank you so much, Astrid.
Speaker 3 (51:56):
Oh, this has been wonderful.
Thank you very much.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
Thank you so much for listening today.
If you loved this episode,consider writing us a five-star
review on Apple podcasts, amazonmusic, spotify or wherever you
listen.
Speaker 2 (52:10):
Thanks also to our season sponsor, PotterViolence.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
If you'd like to support the podcast and get
access to bonus content,consider joining our Patreon
community.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
You can buy all your Musician-centric merch,
including shirts, water bottles,koozies and a variety of other
fun items.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
Our theme music was written and produced by JP
Wogerman and is performed byStefan Myself.
Speaker 2 (52:32):
Our episodes are produced by Liz O'Hara and
edited by Emily McMahon.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
Thanks again for listening.
Let's talk soon.
Music.
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