June 4, 2025 • 45 mins
Stories? Questions? Thoughts? TEXT us here!
Kyleen King, violist and string arranger for Brandi Carlile, opens up about musicians' mental health challenges and her journey toward becoming a therapist for touring musicians. She shares unfiltered insights about the psychological toll of touring life and the community support that's helping her transition into social work.
• The reality gap between performing onstage and the other "22.5 hours" of touring life
• How musicians mask suffering through performance both on and off stage
• The isolation of touring despite being surrounded by people constantly
• Kyleen's pursuit of a social work degree to help fellow musicians with mental health challenges
• The success of her community-funded education through GoFundMe
• The myth of individualism versus the reality of community interdependence
• Growing industry recognition of musicians' mental health needs
• Organizations like Backline offering mental health support to musicians
Text us your feedback via the link in our show notes, join our email list through our website, or support us through Patreon to help us keep these conversations going!
Head over to musiciancentric.com to subscribe to our email list!
Interested in starting your own podcast? We can't recommend our host Buzzsprout enough! Click here for an introductory offer from them!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steph (00:03):
Welcome to the Musician Centric Podcast.
We are two freelance violistsliving and laughing our way
through conversations thatexplore what it means to be a
professional musician in today'sworld.
I'm Steph.
Liz (00:15):
And I'm Liz, and we're so glad you've joined us.
Let's dive in.
Steph (00:25):
Pray to the internet gods .
Liz (00:27):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, we are praying to theinternet gods.
We had some glitchy stuff goingon lately, I don't know.
Steph (00:33):
Yeah, trying to work it all out.
Do you really want to do this?
Liz (00:36):
Yeah, yes, it keeps asking.
Are you sure, are you sure youwant to get back into this.
But here we are, we're back.
We have a very, very proud tohave a guest episode to share
with all of you.
Steph (00:49):
Yeah, we have the amazing Kyleen King who's a violist.
She is the violist and stringarranger for Brandi Carlile.
She's been on tour, she's beenin the recording studio.
She's done it all Very activein her local out in Portland.
Liz (01:05):
Yeah, the local 99.
Yeah, it was kind of cool forher to shout that out in a way,
because we've had, you know,union episodes in the past and
that was really nice to hear.
Yeah, of course, I think Stephand I've probably talked about
Brandi Carlile before on thepodcast, because we're both
massive fans.
We've both seen her in concertmultiple times.
(01:26):
We just absolutely love her andso to get to talk to someone
who gets to work with her out onthe road is like such a dream.
But the conversation was suchan incredible surprise in a lot
of ways because Kyleen just gotreal with us, real with us about
experiences in touring and wereally deep dive into mental
(01:48):
health for musicians, which Ithink is so great.
I don't know that we've reallyhad that thread of conversation
in a podcast episode before tothis extent.
Steph (01:57):
Yeah, and Kyleen shared with us the ups and downs of
touring, obviously, like yousaid, but also it inspired her
to start working on her socialwork degree.
So she is actually getting adegree to help musicians with
their mental health, especiallythose musicians on tour.
So she really has a passion forhelping people.
(02:17):
She even said that she wants tobe a mental health advocate
against what's causing sufferingin musicians' lives, which I
thought was just a lovely ethosand inspiration for all of her
work right now.
Liz (02:35):
Absolutely.
I found it very inspiring andit's been really interesting.
I've been thinking a lot latelymyself and I wonder how many
musicians think this about theircareers too like how there can
be a service element beyond yourperformance.
And I think you know when youfeel like you find that niche,
(03:02):
when you're like I don't know,like somehow makes the
performance like almost moreenjoyable because you're able to
like express yourself in thatcreative way, and then you also
feel like you're giving back,and it's just an interesting
thing to think about.
And I was very happy to bereminded of that in revisiting
this conversation we had withher, which just inspiring in so
(03:23):
many ways.
And the other thing that Ireally think was great that we
talked about was the concept ofcommunity, and we could let her
unfold the story of how she kindof grassroots it with her
community, but the idea of allof us lifting each other up, oh,
it's so needed.
Steph (03:44):
Especially right now.
We need it so much we need eachother.
Liz (03:48):
Yeah.
Steph (03:48):
And we need to go to bat for each other, which is a great
segue into talking aboutcommunity how you can help us
Help Be part of our community.
So, as you know, creating apodcast is not free or cheap.
You can support us in lots ofdifferent ways.
You can join our Patreon, youcan contribute via our website,
(04:12):
you could share this episodewith a friend.
Just help us get the word out.
We just want to connect withyou.
We want you to be part of ourcommunity.
We want to be part of yourcommunity.
Liz (04:22):
Yeah, and we want to build it.
We want to be part of yourcommunity together.
That's really our ultimate goalis to be inspired, to learn and
(04:45):
to engage with one another andwith the people we meet.
I think some of the mostfulfilling experiences we've had
through this podcast journeyhas been in the community that's
been created around what we'reoffering and the wonderful
people who we've been able toconnect with that enjoy what we
do.
So the more you're willing toengage with us in various ways,
the more we feel like we'redoing something for you too.
(05:09):
So, yeah, email list definitelysign up.
We are going to be in touch byemail and, as Steph said, there
are various ways that you canhelp us by contributing
financially if you have themeans to do so.
We want to keep this going andwe really just we have to ask
for help in order to do that.
(05:29):
That's just the way it is andwe're not ashamed.
Steph (05:35):
Join our email list.
Text us via the episode notes.
There's a little link in therewhere you.
We love feedback.
We love to hear from you.
Liz (05:51):
Yeah, absolutely, and stay tuned.
And, oh man, steph, I feel likeI'm going to take your line.
Enjoy this episode with KyleneKing.
Steph (06:25):
Our guest today is Kyleen King, a multi-instrumental
session musician, stringarranger and live on the tracks
of various artists, includingBrandy, the Decembrists, my
Morning Jacket, so many more.
And recently Kyleen has turnedher energy towards pursuing a
degree in social work to servethe mental health needs of her
colleagues in the musicalcommunity.
Kyleen, it is a pleasure andhonor to welcome you to the
(06:49):
Musician Centric Podcast.
Kyleen (06:51):
Oh, thank you, the pleasure and honor is mine.
Steph (06:54):
Oh man, Obviously, Liz and I have been following your
career.
We're huge Brandi fans, but Ithink I speak for most of our
audience, who are Brandi headslike we are.
What was the path that led youto be on tour with Brandi?
It seems like the dream jobthat we all when we get into
music we imagine for ourselves.
Kyleen (07:20):
you know, sure, sure, and I will definitely say dream
job is quickly deflated once youstart doing the work.
Steph (07:25):
It always is.
Kyleen (07:25):
So, just as a as this is who I am, I'm very real talk
about everything.
Steph (07:32):
We love it.
Kyleen (07:32):
And so I will just deflate everything.
Give us the uncut version, andI'm also extremely fortunate to
have had the opportunities thatI have.
So it's both.
Liz (07:41):
Yes.
Kyleen (07:42):
But the way that I got that job is the way that I've
gotten any other job, which isthrough who I know and how I put
myself out there.
And this is something that Itell people a lot.
When they're asking, how do Iget where you're at, I say can
you come to your relationshipswith other people in a genuine
(08:04):
and authentic way and nurturethem from a place of friendship
and interest, versus businessand promotion?
I've never.
I don't live in LA, so Iimagine there's a whole
ecosystem that works in thatmodel, but I've never approached
other people as I only want toget something out of you.
(08:25):
I want to know you, I'm curiousabout you, I'd like to just
expand my communal feeling offriendship and relationship and
meaning, and so that's how Iapproach any person that I work
with, and I have nurturedseveral genuine friendships over
my life, and the job withBrandy came from exactly that.
(08:48):
I like to share that I had metwith my friend, laura Gibson,
who's a singer-songwriter inPortland, and told her I was
looking for work because I hadlost my last touring job and I
was like, yeah, you know, justkind of keep an eye out for
anything.
And it just so happened thatthe former violinist of Brandy's
, lauren, got a job for theLumineers which had just opened
up.
Got a job for the Lumineerswhich had just opened up and the
(09:12):
communication went from LauraGibson to Lauren that I was
looking for work and so Laurenjust recommended me for the job
and it was all the timing kindof thing.
It just worked out perfectly.
They had seen each other, theyhad played music together.
I mean, portland's a small cityall things considered, half the
people that live here aremusicians, but we, it gets
(09:34):
around.
So I was really lucky to berecommended for that and I just
showed up in 2018 for the firstgig for her, and my audition was
the soundcheck of okay, here'syour job, like play the
soundcheck and then three showsin a row, and that's what I did.
Liz (09:55):
And, um, we, we were talking about, you know, the
things we don't know in thecareer that you've had, and one
being the fact that touring isthis notoriously grueling way to
make a living.
Um, and so you know, one of thequestions we had was what did
you see on the road?
What were your experiences thathighlighted these sort of unmet
(10:16):
needs that you've been seeing,that you want to serve as you go
forward with the social work?
Kyleen (10:20):
Just curious if either of you have ever toured before.
Steph (10:24):
I have never.
Liz (10:25):
Like baby tours.
Steph (10:26):
Yeah, nothing like that.
Kyleen (10:27):
Like go out for like get in the car, go to a place and
then come home or maybe stay outfor a couple of days.
Steph (10:33):
Right, like a couple of days kind of.
Liz (10:36):
I did a one week van tour, that kind of thing.
Yeah, handful of hotels, littlebits.
Kyleen (10:42):
Totally.
That's a little window into it.
I'm always curious of who I'mtalking to and if you already
kind of know the answer to thisquestion, one of the things just
stepping back out of just me.
Everybody comes to tours with adifferent life set of problems
and concerns and circumstances.
There are some people that arefar more adaptable and resilient
(11:03):
than others and some peopleabsolutely collapse and
everything in between.
So it's not a uniformexperience in that way between.
So it's not a uniformexperience in that way.
And for me, my childhood issuesand the way that I developed
made me be chameleon-like andadaptable, so that my discomfort
(11:23):
and my needs were alwayssuppressed in the interest of
serving others, which made mereally seem to do really well
for the first several years ofmy life, touring that you
wouldn't know on the surfacethat I was suffering underneath,
because I would have never, youwould have never seen it and
people would remark what's like?
You seem so comfortable and sosociable and blah, blah, blah,
(11:46):
blah, blah and it's like, yeah,I, that's a, that's a strategy,
it's a strategy for protectingmyself, that's a coping
mechanism.
And also, from childhood issues, I became hyper vigilant and
hyper observant and aware ofwhat everybody's feeling like
the temperature of the room andthe vibe and I cannot turn that
(12:06):
off.
So I'm constantly aware ofwhere everyone is at at all
times and just that alone wouldknock a person down.
It's exhausting to be in atouring environment where you're
taking on everybody's stuff andsitting with it quietly because
there's not a place to sharethe vibe on a tour, especially
(12:30):
when you're trying to live withpeople for weeks and months at a
time, years at a time on a busand you never escape them is
everything needs to be kind, oflight and fun and funny and we
don't talk about hard things.
We can talk about hard thingsin some little brief moments,
but it's hard to know who youcan trust and how you can
(12:50):
connect with people.
And these are my experiences.
I think other camps, other bands, other artists might have
different experiences and feellike this is my family and I
connect with them so deeply andhonestly.
That's never been my experience.
I've never really found mypeople in my touring experiences
as a professional, as aprofessional, and so I felt very
(13:15):
alone and very isolated andsuffering in silence and
witnessing a lot of othersuffering that's masked under
various layers of presentationLike no, I'm going to drink a
whole bunch or do a whole bunchof drugs or I'm going to be
super funny.
So you have no idea how muchI'm hurting, just like any other
job in the world.
We all have an idea about whatother people's professions are
(13:39):
like, and we don't know unlesswe go do it Right.
And so especially this one ontour, playing on stages in front
of thousands of people, andwe're also presenting on stage.
Liz (13:49):
Yeah, we are having the best night of our lives.
Steph (13:51):
Yes.
Kyleen (13:51):
And truthfully, that's not disingenuous.
Like every time I'm on stage,there are having the best night
of our lives.
Yes, and truthfully, that's notdisingenuous.
Like every time I'm on stage,there is no disingenuous bone in
my body.
I'm feeling whatever I'mshowing.
There's like, uh, we might becoordinating our dance moves for
a minute, but like it's real.
I'm real in that moment and the22 and a half other hours of the
(14:12):
day are the part that is thehard part of touring yeah so I
feel like there's a lot ofvisible examples of suffering.
The most recent is uh liampayne yeah like you've been this
famous person.
He's in one direction.
One direction had their bigmoment.
One direction doesn't have thatbig moment anymore.
(14:33):
Yet he's still a person, youngand existing in the world, who
had an obscene amount ofattention for a while and then
it's gone.
And how do you deal with that?
Drugs, you know any othernumber of addictions, even the
stage, can become a drug whereyou're trying to fill this
(14:53):
emptiness from the stage and itdoesn't last.
I I cannot not see that.
You know what I mean.
And it hurts.
It hurts more and more and morethe longer I'm out on the road
and I'm like I'm not able to dothis anymore, and a lot of that
came from my personal journeywith therapy and healing and
(15:16):
like that's why it's gettingharder to be in that environment
, because I feel like I'mstepping more into.
I want to take care of this, Iwant to heal this, I want to
address this, I want to talkabout it, I want to advocate
against these things that arecausing suffering and I can't
participate in the game.
I can't participate in thesystem.
Steph (15:38):
Yeah, you can't unknow things that you know.
Kyleen (15:43):
Exactly yeah, that was a big long stretch of.
Steph (15:46):
Oh no, thank you for sharing that because I don't
think that people talk about it.
Thank you for sharing thatbecause I don't think that
people talk about it.
That side of touring at all.
You know we all go to theconcerts.
You think that that image thatyou're seeing on stage is the
whole experience?
But of course it's not.
Of course we know this too.
We go on stage and we play aconcert, and it's this beautiful
(16:08):
expression.
Liz (16:16):
But we joke about.
You know, the bus rides up toNew York or wherever we're going
to play.
We're like this is so glamorous, isn't this a glamorous life?
That we live on a gray house,on a sprinter bus at 10 o'clock
at night.
My leg is cramping, it's a carsick oh yeah, yes, I think it's.
it is a really interesting thingto, once you start to do the
work, especially if you'resomeone who has struggled in the
past with you know you'rehighly sensitive, you're people
(16:39):
pleasing, you are prone to takeon other people's crap without
even knowing that you're doingit right.
I've had to do a lot of work inthat area and what's ended up
happening?
Well, first of all, I thinkit's really interesting for
anybody else who's had theseexperiences where, once you
start to recognize it, there's aperiod of time where you're
(17:01):
like I can't be in any of it.
I have to get myself away fromit as much as possible because I
now know what it's doing to me,because I don't know how to
take care of this thing yet formyself.
But then there's this reallyinteresting point in time when
you continue to do the work,where you start to recognize
that, like boundaries are thiswonderful thing that exists in
(17:24):
the world and they're hard,they're really hard Sometimes,
like I just you know totaltransparency.
I have a wonderful therapist.
I've talked about my therapistbefore.
She's been my therapist forlike nearly five years now.
She's helped me so much.
And just yesterday we werehaving a conversation about a
very what, what is seemingly avery minor thing in my life, and
(17:47):
I was telling her oh, I hadthis all structured out and then
this came up and now I don'tknow what I'm going to do.
And it wasn't even work related, it's personal related and
she's like you know, I never dothis, but do you want my advice?
I was like, oh, you got atherapist to give you advice.
I was like, yes, and she's likeyou need to stick with the
thing that you had structuredfor yourself for this reason,
(18:08):
this reason, this reason, thisreason, and I'm like but, but,
but.
And she's like talk it out.
And I talked it out and I waslike you're exactly right.
You're exactly right, you know,sometimes our boundary means
like letting go of a thing thatwe used to do all the time that
is no longer good for us, orfinding our limits Like maybe
it's not as much time and that'scertainly relative, even for I
(18:35):
think anyone can relate to thatin a musical career, whether
it's on the road, which is thisaggressive for sure, there's no
question, and I mean we all hearlike the party stories.
But the dark side of that is, ofcourse, 100 accurate and sad
and difficult, you know, becauseyou don't identify as
performers.
Like you said, everything'sauthentic on stage because it's
where we feel the most alive,it's where we feel the most
(18:57):
fulfilled and the rest of ourlives.
It's easy to forget that youhave so much more to being a
human and living the experienceof a human life than just being
on the stage and getting theperforming opportunity.
I don't know.
I think that's the challenge isfiguring out how to find value
and all of those things in yourlife too.
And I think it speaks to someother things that you've shared
(19:19):
about your own experience too,which we'll get into.
But I just think all of that isjust so well said and I think a
lot of people struggle withthat.
Uh, the taking on of otherpeople's stuff.
Kyleen (19:31):
I, you're not alone.
You're not alone, definitelynot alone.
We we largely do that.
We're all trying to avoidconflict and we are all trying
to avoid pain.
So, a hundred percent, whatyou're just spoke to, I feel
like, is we don't learn how tosit with our discomfort.
We don't learn who we are andwhy we are the way we are.
(19:55):
If we were all in therapy likewe should all be in therapy and
treated our mental health withthe same regard that we do our
physical health, we wouldunderstand ourselves a lot
better and be able to toleratethe discomfort of those touring
environments a lot more easilythe performing environments, the
rehearsal environment, the egostruggle of being creative and a
lot more easily.
The performing environments,the rehearsal environment, the
ego struggle of being creativeand working with other people.
(20:16):
Every struggle that you face inthe business can be tolerated
and managed and navigated if youhave some groundedness and
understanding of yourself andwho you are.
That's a big missing piece.
This is why I'm going to keepsaying this out loud in every
place that I can.
(20:36):
I want Taylor Swift to startpaying for a foundation that
provides mental health andresource support to touring
musicians in the touringenvironment, and not just
musicians, crew management,everybody that's out on the road
needs to be cared for on theroad in that space, because you
(20:56):
are alone out there,resourceless, with no support.
It's mostly predators.
And us kind of feeling like ourown advocates, trying to stay
ahead of the people that arewaiting in line behind us for
our jobs.
And so Taylor Swift has billiondollars and I think that Taylor
Swift would be on board toputting her name on a foundation
(21:19):
that I somehow get smarterpeople than me to be in charge
of and we start to create mentalhealth, structural support and
not only touring musicians.
But that is one of as I'vespent many years on the road now
that's one of the biggestglaring missing pieces to me is
that's.
Steph (21:39):
we need it there on the road yes, manifest.
Liz (21:43):
I am, we'll keep it in the pod, taylor.
You heard it here, taylor she'sa big fan.
She, she listened to all theepisodes so far.
I'm sure she has.
Kyleen (21:54):
Yes we're going to be best friends.
Liz (21:55):
But that's your community.
You recognize the struggleswithin your community, we have
the same experience in our own,and so what needs are being met?
Like when you ask how to be aperson of value in your world,
you're asking what the needs arethat need to be met.
And then that's the beauty,right, you started there.
(22:16):
Maybe it gained some success,and then maybe there are other
organizations that crop up thatstart providing mental health
resources to orchestralmusicians and the issues they
face, and they, you know it's asnowball effect.
Kyleen (22:29):
It's already becoming more common.
Like what you were sayingearlier is historically, for us
these are still new concepts andstill taboo because they are
still so new.
Like Backline is anorganization that's providing
mental health support that'sfunded by other people, so it's
like free you go, get casemanagement services from them.
Management services from them.
(22:54):
Even Live Nation createdTouring Career Workshop, which
is providing mental health andcounseling services only to Live
Nation performers, and it wasonly at the stadium and arena
level.
But I did see it and I met withsomebody because I was like,
hey, and it just started.
This was like last 2023.
So it's new and I'm on a mentalhealth committee for the Local
99 Musicians Union in Portland.
We are constantly talking aboutsymphony musicians because
(23:18):
everybody on that committee isin the symphony but me.
Liz (23:21):
We're talking about neurodivergence constantly and
how.
Kyleen (23:25):
ADHD and autism are not addressed and how it's severely
prevalent in the symphony scene.
I'm learning even more aboutthe difficulties of what it's
like to be in the symphony.
I had my own ideas.
I was like, oh well, you have asalary and you have benefits
and you have blah, blah, blah,blah.
And they're like listen, here'sthe reality of what that job is
(23:47):
like.
And I had no idea.
Liz (23:50):
So you're right.
Kyleen (23:51):
It's going to snowball, it's going to become more common
, and I'm just one in a sea ofvoices that I think are going to
come around to this more andmore and more People are talking
about it, more and more.
Steph (24:03):
Noah Kahan talks about it on the road.
Kyleen (24:05):
He's raising money for mental health organizations.
I think Lady Gaga, selena Gomez, like all of these massive
figures, are talking about it alot.
Simone Biles talking aboutmental health in the Olympics.
Totally, you know it's yeahit's amazing.
We're on the right track and Ithink things are going to get
better.
It's just been so hard for usnow and before the now, and
(24:30):
where the struggles are still attoday in the existing
environment for people workingright now.
Steph (24:36):
But you're doing more than just talking about it.
You're actually pursuing adegree in social work.
Kyleen (24:42):
Yes, I have many big ideas and I don't have enough
time in my life to do all thethings I want to do, but I'm
working on a master's degree insocial work right now, which
I'll be done with next August,in 2025.
And my idea is to be a privatepractice therapist for musicians
and creatives as one aspect ofmy work.
(25:03):
I also plan to continue doingmusic that I'm not going to burn
out on one or the other.
I'm not going to rely on musicfor income.
I'm not going to burn out ontaking on 30 clients a week.
I'm going to figure out abalance and I'm not going to
rely on music for income.
I'm not going to burn out ontaking on 30 clients a week.
I'm going to figure out abalance and I'm going to
advocate locally, nationally andmaybe internationally with
every organization I can findthat wants to provide resource,
(25:23):
support and mental healthsupport to musicians and
creatives.
It's really clear, you know,like we were saying earlier,
this path is just so clear nowwhere I'm like oh, this is how
old me and new me all figuretogether and why this feels so
meaningful and why I'm sopassionate about it.
(25:43):
Because, there's purpose in this.
That makes a whole lot of sensefor who I am and what my story
is.
So yeah, yeah.
Steph (25:52):
It's so clear that you're so passionate about it.
It's wonderful to see such aclear vision and with such heart
behind it and it's clear thatyou have a community out there
in Portland that needs and wantsand appreciates you for
bringing this up.
And it's nowhere more clearthan in your GoFundMe for your
(26:15):
social work degree.
Liz (26:16):
So, listeners.
Steph (26:17):
if you don't know, go check it out.
Kylene has a GoFundMe thatfunded her master's degree in
social work and Liz and I wereon there the other day.
Liz was just telling me whatshe saw, what you see on there.
Liz (26:30):
Well, okay, so here's what I was marveling at, and there's
like a few reasons we'rebringing this up, but I think,
first of all, it's definitely atestament to your community.
What I saw was that you posted.
You basically were very honestabout the reasons you were going
into this work and you werevery frank about the financial
restrictions of trying to dothis work, and you mentioned
(26:54):
loans and you mentioned the highinterest cost of that, which
we're all very aware of, youknow to try to pursue any kind
of higher ed degree costs somuch money.
And you were very frank.
You basically said, like thisis going to cost $20,000 for me
to go to school and it's goingto roughly cost me $20,000 to
live while I'm going to school,and I like that.
(27:16):
What you did was you first saidyou were looking for someone
who's like got resources thatwill just give you money, and I
love that because it's like, yes, I really wish more people that
had unlimited resources wouldjust hand it over.
You know, as we look at theworld of like tycoon
billionaires and the new era ofrobber barons and all, oh, yes,
(27:39):
yeah which is a whole other canof worms.
It sure is.
But then you look down and yousee you have raised this money,
but in looking at your donors,it's all just people who are
throwing a hundred bucks, 50bucks, 20 bucks, 150 bucks.
And we were just Steph and I,both were just thinking about
(28:01):
this, this concept of likehaving a community of support
and what it looks like actuallyto.
And I forget if I, if Stephanie, you'll have to tell me if I
had a more succinct way ofputting this but, I, just have
this idea in my head.
That's like, wow, you know, whenI know someone who has a
project and they're crowdfundingfor that project and I believe
in it, I'm going to throw 20 or50 bucks their way.
(28:23):
And then if I have a projectthat someone else really loves
or believes in, they're going tothrow bucks my way.
And this idea of likesupporting one another as we
explore ways to serve ourcommunities, it's meaningful and
it creates this sense ofcloseness and connection.
To tie it back to what all ofus feel as musicians is the most
(28:46):
important thing we do isconnect in various ways.
Here you are doing that, but Ithink we were curious.
How did you even think to belike you know what I want to do
this work?
I'm just going to throw a gofund me up there and hope for
the best.
Where does this community comefrom?
Are these people you knowpersonally?
Like, I mean, really it's aweird question, but I ask it
(29:07):
because I think the more thatartists or creatives are willing
to say out there I want to dothis thing, I have this vision
for doing this thing, I needyour help, the more we have to
offer.
Kyleen (29:22):
Right, it was so nice to hear you talk about it just now
, Like you really spoke so wellto the whole thing and I was
like, oh, it almost made me wantto cry just hearing you talk
about it um, because the ideawas I wasn't going to get enough
money from loans to even coverwhat I needed.
(29:44):
It was still going to be aboutten thousand dollars short and I
was like so I'm definitelysigning up for massive interest
for a long time and I'm going tohave to work a certain number
of hours and work with this manyclients for this long to pay
off this debt.
And I was fully expecting totake on loans and go into debt
as I was doing a master's and Iwas looking at the loans and
(30:08):
I'll be honest, I filedbankruptcy in 2015 for some
credit card debt that I had froman ex and I still can't even go
in.
I can't go into a bank and geta loan, like I, that expires
next year.
Steph (30:21):
It's a 10 year mark on your credit, OK 10 years and I,
it happens, next year.
Kyleen (30:28):
But I couldn't even go just like get a credit card to
pay for my life, for the rest ofit, and I was like okay, so
what do I do?
and the first thing that comesto mind is exactly what you said
.
Maybe there's a brandy fan whois just sitting on a mountain of
money and forty thousanddollars would be nothing to them
(30:48):
.
How do I ask for this?
And I was talking to myhousemate about it and my
housemate was like okay.
I was like here's my idea.
I want to try to find a Brandyfan.
I'm going to make a socialmedia post and see if I can get
a Brandy fan's attention.
And she was like just create aGoFundMe link so that if the
(31:09):
Brandy fan who has resourcessees it, they can easily just
put the money in so they have away to donate.
You don't have to manage orcoordinate or whatever with them
, just like it's an easy way forthem to just click on something
and send it to you.
So I made that post and I putthe GoFundMe link in the
comments to try to hide it,because I did not want my
(31:29):
friends to donate to it, becauseI felt an enormous guilt for
putting up a GoFundMe asking topay for my school, when I can
get loans, when there are peopleputting up GoFundMes for paying
for their medical debt anddealing with tragedy and loss
and I even went on the GoFundMesite and looked at the education
(31:51):
section to see how many peoplewere doing that there's like
nobody raising money to pay fortheir higher education.
This is such a unique thing.
Liz (31:59):
It's pretty crazy to me actually.
I agree.
Steph (32:02):
Wouldn't that be one of the most common things that
people go into debt for?
Kyleen (32:06):
Maybe these days I saw differently, just on the main
website.
Steph (32:10):
And so.
Kyleen (32:11):
I put that up and I was walking around my house like
this.
I felt horrible.
I was so nervous, I was souncomfortable, I wanted to get
it off, I wanted to take it down.
I was like what are you doing?
Like this is this is absurd.
(32:34):
And I was terrified of thecriticism and the judgment I was
going to receive and whatpeople were going to think about
me for putting this up.
And, of course, my attempt tohide the GoFundMe link failed
and all my friends saw it andthey started sharing it and they
started donating and within twodays it was to like $11,000.
And I was like, okay, this isout of my hands.
This was not my intention, butI cannot control the way that
(32:55):
this goes and I need to get outof my own way because I was
really struggling with how toprocess that that so many people
were jumping on that to donate.
And the kind of feedback youreceive from the GoFundMes.
I don't know if you've evertalked to somebody who's done it
or if you've ever done one, butthe kind of feedback you
received is it's just sooverwhelming.
It's like being at your ownfuneral and hearing the best
(33:17):
things about you, like I justreceived so much love and
support from my community, andthat community is not only
Portland musicians, but it wasBrandy fans.
A lot of them are follow me onsocial media.
A lot of them were donating.
A lot of them were reaching outtelling me how much it means to
(33:38):
see me on stage every time withBrandy and that they couldn't
be more happy to donate.
Friends saying like I am sohappy to give you the $25 I can
afford to give you.
It's just, it's so meaningful.
I didn't have words and I kindof still don't.
When I think about it, I'm likewhat can I possibly say about
what happened there?
And as I paid my first bill forthis first semester, I've been
(34:00):
trying to communicate back tothem how meaningful it is.
I'm like I have no debt becauseof you, because of you all, and
I also have to recognize that Iput myself out there.
Steph (34:11):
And if I hadn't put myself out there.
Kyleen (34:13):
I wouldn't be in this position.
Yes, and I can't recommend itenough.
Yes, what you're terrified ofis the thing that you probably
should go do, and I did receivesome direct criticism and
judgment from people I love,from random people online.
I saw it and I was like, ok,let's put on our big girl pants
(34:33):
and let's, let's see what thisfeels like and let's accept it.
I, it was so intense for aminute I almost pulled it down
because I was like questioningmy choice to do it and I didn't
and I left it up.
Um so uh.
If anything is motivationalfrom this, is that you can
rethink systems, you can reachout to your community, we can
(34:54):
create systems of support aroundus outside of this burdening,
oppressive system of capitalismthat says you have to do all of
these things this way and thesocial norms that say you're
supposed to do this and be thisand this is the right way, and I
just I have never agreed withthat and social work couldn't
align more with who I am becauseI disagree with all of those
(35:16):
norms.
I just I think they're absurdand I see how they allow people
to have power over others.
When you decide something isthe right way or somebody is
better than another person, it'sjust not true, so yeah.
I have a lot of feelings aboutthat and I'm so glad you asked
about it.
Yeah, great.
Steph (35:37):
I'm so touched too, because it was so vulnerable.
It was so vulnerable to putyourself out there in that way
and it was such a middle fingerto the system basically.
It really was, but I reallythink of it as like a return to
(35:59):
like what our basic human needsand instincts are.
We want to be part of acommunity.
We want to support each other.
We don't want to have to go italone Like we don't want to pull
ourselves up by our bootstraps.
No one wants to see that either.
We've glorified that for solong and it's, I think, a return
(36:21):
to what's really true aboutbeing a human.
Kyleen (36:24):
Yeah, that's true, exactly.
Steph (36:25):
Is reaching out for those connections and that community
and that village.
Kyleen (36:30):
Exactly.
It flies in the face ofcapitalism, and what capitalism
says is true Nobody has everpulled themselves up by their
bootstraps, nobody has ever doneanything without other people,
ever, ever A hundred percent youmight be.
No, you might be a remarkable,amazing human who's, like,
(36:53):
achieved unbelievable things,and you've done it because other
people have helped yousomewhere along the way.
We are all relying on otherpeople to get anything done, and
it's such a myth that you haveever done anything entirely on
your own.
You can't do anything on yourown.
You can't do anything on yourown, and it's getting that myth
(37:16):
and that lie out of the way cando exactly what you just said,
steph, which is return us towhat is true about us as humans,
as we are a social species whorely on each other and want to
connect and want to be inpartnership with each other and
care about each other.
We actually do care as much aspeople are trying to convince us
we don't.
We actually do and we still doalone in our houses, on our
(37:41):
phones when we're not seeingpeople.
We care so much and we want tosay that we don't because it
hurts to acknowledge the truththat we all do.
Steph (37:51):
Yeah, because that's the harder path.
Kyleen (37:53):
Yeah, it's the harder path.
It's caring, yeah exactly.
Liz (37:57):
Well, what do you think, Steph?
Should we lighten things up?
Kylie, how do you feel aboutplaying a game?
Kyleen (38:01):
Okay, do you like games?
Let's do games.
Liz (38:03):
Okay, it's like still going to be a deep thought, steph.
What do we call this game?
Steph (38:07):
Okay, so we're calling this game sight reading and so
we have this list of questionsand it's nothing as traumatic as
the real deal, okay they'rejust very light very
thought-provoking questions, andwe're going to ask them at
random, maybe two or three ofthem, and you can just tell us
what you think.
Just like, and I think I thinkit's worth mentioning.
Liz (38:26):
You are our first guest we're ever going to play this
game with.
Oh gosh, you're the very firstone and we're very excited, but
we also were talking about it.
We're like, I think kyleen'sthe perfect guest to do the
perfect yes, I'm honored, so Ihave I have this, um, oh, my god
, I can I.
I have to show kyleen what thislooks like.
So this is this will make itinto the episode, but I have to
(38:47):
show you the.
Can you see this?
Okay?
So this is the wheel and I'mgonna spin it and then we going
to ask the question thatcorresponds to the number.
Okay, go.
Steph (38:58):
Okay, you feeling lucky there it goes oh, it's making a
noise.
Liz (39:01):
I don't know if that's going to come out in the
recording, though.
Steph (39:03):
Oh boy, okay, okay, 16.
Oh, there's, applause.
Liz (39:10):
Okay, here's question 16.
What does success look like foryou at this moment?
Kyleen (39:25):
Success at this moment looks like knowing who I am and
what I want regardless of whatanybody else has to say.
Authenticity.
Yep, success is what I defineas success for me, not what
anybody else defines as success.
Yeah.
Steph (39:35):
It changes, right, yeah, yeah.
Liz (39:38):
Moving target.
Steph (39:39):
It is.
Liz (39:39):
Totally moving target.
Yeah, okay, steph, do you havethe list of questions?
Steph (39:46):
I do.
I already spun oh, you alreadyspun.
Okay, great, which one?
Yes?
Liz (39:50):
Number 27.
Steph (39:51):
Okay, best gig meal ever.
Kyleen (39:56):
Okay, this happened recently.
I was up in Alaska with theLobar Corral this summer playing
Salmon Fest in the Nilchik.
Steph (40:06):
As you do.
Kyleen (40:07):
As you do, and they had all of these salmon guy like
salmon fisher people, and theybrought their salmon, the way
they prepared it, uh, for us tosample as a contest.
And so we got to taste the mostdelicious salmon prepared in
all these different ways of alltime and it was just stunningly
(40:29):
good.
Like we, we, we were high, wewere buzzing oh my gosh we're
melting.
It was so delicious uh andfresh and fresh.
Oh, that, that's one of myfavorite food memories.
Liz (40:44):
That's so good, that was pretty good okay, uh, question
number 12 is what is somethingyou do differently than anyone
else you know, and why that's abig one.
Kyleen (40:58):
Yeah, whoa, wow, I'm scared to answer.
Steph (41:03):
There are lots of things that I do differently.
Liz (41:05):
I want to hear it.
Steph, how would you answerthis?
Kyleen (41:09):
I don't know how to answer this.
Steph (41:11):
Do you put all of your emails in different folders?
No, like organize them once youget them?
Liz (41:16):
I think you know the answer to that question.
Steph (41:18):
I do Just because it's so overwhelming to see a whole
inbox full of unanswered emails.
I feel better when they're infolders.
Liz (41:26):
Even if you haven't opened them.
Steph (41:28):
Yeah, okay, that might be .
I automatically go through anddelete.
Liz (41:32):
Okay, yeah, okay, that might be.
Steph (41:33):
I automatically go through and delete.
Okay, yeah, so Okay.
Liz (41:35):
Okay, I'm the anal one on this podcast no, but I love it,
I love it In case you didn'tknow.
I just I know that people sortinto folders Like that's a thing
, but like the unread part.
Kyleen (41:53):
I don't know if I know anybody else who does that part,
so that is unique to you.
Yeah, I think that's unique.
Yeah, okay, I thought the onlything I could think of here
which I'm sure other people do,is I have struggled to focus on
schoolwork and reading.
It's really, really hard for me.
So I have, um, like a tv showplaying on silent, plus music
playing plus like lighting and acandle and like my little
stress ball, and if I have allof these things going, they
(42:15):
distract all the parts of mybrain that don't want to be
doing that work and I can have abetter chance at focusing Every
time I tell people that they'relike what.
So I think I might be fairlyunique in this, but I know I'm
not alone, so I would love tohear from other people.
Liz (42:31):
I don't think you're alone.
I think that's.
I think the multiple, multiplefactors, though, are very unique
.
You know, like you have aspecific set of things.
Like I generally need to havesome kind of background noise to
work, for sure, yes, but likeit's usually the TV with the
sound on, or or because music Iactually can't.
I cannot work to music.
(42:51):
I find that very distracting.
Any kind of music playing.
Kyleen (42:56):
I don't listen to music very much which is very that's
interesting.
I don't like listening to musicthat much.
It's very rare that I want tolisten.
It's work, interesting.
Steph (43:06):
And I'm analyzing.
Kyleen (43:07):
But if I find the right like I basically exclusively
listen to Trent Reznor andatticus ross film scores um as
the background for my work, Ilove it.
I can revel in film score uhand soundtrack stuff um lyric
based stuff is I'm not asinterested in listening to.
It's a little more distractingthan I ever listened to lyrics?
Yeah, so I can also tune outlyrics as background yeah but
(43:31):
it's distracting enough to quietthat part of my brain.
Steph (43:34):
It's so weird yeah, oh, my god, that's this is.
This is amazing.
Thank you for indulging usthanks to being our guinea pig.
Liz (43:44):
Yes, okay you're the best.
This has been such a delight umto have you on kyleen.
Thank you so much thank you somuch.
Kyleen (43:52):
It's been so great to chat with you two lovely, lovely
humans, and thanks for askingthese great questions and I
don't know, just being sosupportive and smiley and caring
and wonderful.
Yeah, this is great.
Good job doing for your podcast, great job.
It's hard and you are making itwork.
Steph (44:10):
Thank you for that pep talk yeah.
Liz (44:14):
Thank you so much for listening today.
If you loved this episode,consider writing us a five-star
review on Apple Podcasts, amazonMusic, spotify or wherever you
listen.
Steph (44:24):
You can buy all your musician-centric merch,
including shirts, water bottles,koozies and a variety of other
fun items.
Liz (44:32):
Our theme music was written and produced by JP Wogeman and
is performed by Steph and myself.
Thanks again for listening.
Let's talk soon.
Thank you.
Welcome to the Musician Centric Podcast.
We are two freelance violistsliving and laughing our way
through conversations thatexplore what it means to be a
professional musician in today'sworld.
I'm Steph.
Liz (00:15):
And I'm Liz, and we're so glad you've joined us.
Let's dive in.
Steph (00:25):
Pray to the internet gods .
Liz (00:27):
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, we are praying to theinternet gods.
We had some glitchy stuff goingon lately, I don't know.
Steph (00:33):
Yeah, trying to work it all out.
Do you really want to do this?
Liz (00:36):
Yeah, yes, it keeps asking.
Are you sure, are you sure youwant to get back into this.
But here we are, we're back.
We have a very, very proud tohave a guest episode to share
with all of you.
Steph (00:49):
Yeah, we have the amazing Kyleen King who's a violist.
She is the violist and stringarranger for Brandi Carlile.
She's been on tour, she's beenin the recording studio.
She's done it all Very activein her local out in Portland.
Liz (01:05):
Yeah, the local 99.
Yeah, it was kind of cool forher to shout that out in a way,
because we've had, you know,union episodes in the past and
that was really nice to hear.
Yeah, of course, I think Stephand I've probably talked about
Brandi Carlile before on thepodcast, because we're both
massive fans.
We've both seen her in concertmultiple times.
(01:26):
We just absolutely love her andso to get to talk to someone
who gets to work with her out onthe road is like such a dream.
But the conversation was suchan incredible surprise in a lot
of ways because Kyleen just gotreal with us, real with us about
experiences in touring and wereally deep dive into mental
(01:48):
health for musicians, which Ithink is so great.
I don't know that we've reallyhad that thread of conversation
in a podcast episode before tothis extent.
Steph (01:57):
Yeah, and Kyleen shared with us the ups and downs of
touring, obviously, like yousaid, but also it inspired her
to start working on her socialwork degree.
So she is actually getting adegree to help musicians with
their mental health, especiallythose musicians on tour.
So she really has a passion forhelping people.
(02:17):
She even said that she wants tobe a mental health advocate
against what's causing sufferingin musicians' lives, which I
thought was just a lovely ethosand inspiration for all of her
work right now.
Liz (02:35):
Absolutely.
I found it very inspiring andit's been really interesting.
I've been thinking a lot latelymyself and I wonder how many
musicians think this about theircareers too like how there can
be a service element beyond yourperformance.
And I think you know when youfeel like you find that niche,
(03:02):
when you're like I don't know,like somehow makes the
performance like almost moreenjoyable because you're able to
like express yourself in thatcreative way, and then you also
feel like you're giving back,and it's just an interesting
thing to think about.
And I was very happy to bereminded of that in revisiting
this conversation we had withher, which just inspiring in so
(03:23):
many ways.
And the other thing that Ireally think was great that we
talked about was the concept ofcommunity, and we could let her
unfold the story of how she kindof grassroots it with her
community, but the idea of allof us lifting each other up, oh,
it's so needed.
Steph (03:44):
Especially right now.
We need it so much we need eachother.
Liz (03:48):
Yeah.
Steph (03:48):
And we need to go to bat for each other, which is a great
segue into talking aboutcommunity how you can help us
Help Be part of our community.
So, as you know, creating apodcast is not free or cheap.
You can support us in lots ofdifferent ways.
You can join our Patreon, youcan contribute via our website,
(04:12):
you could share this episodewith a friend.
Just help us get the word out.
We just want to connect withyou.
We want you to be part of ourcommunity.
We want to be part of yourcommunity.
Liz (04:22):
Yeah, and we want to build it.
We want to be part of yourcommunity together.
That's really our ultimate goalis to be inspired, to learn and
(04:45):
to engage with one another andwith the people we meet.
I think some of the mostfulfilling experiences we've had
through this podcast journeyhas been in the community that's
been created around what we'reoffering and the wonderful
people who we've been able toconnect with that enjoy what we
do.
So the more you're willing toengage with us in various ways,
the more we feel like we'redoing something for you too.
(05:09):
So, yeah, email list definitelysign up.
We are going to be in touch byemail and, as Steph said, there
are various ways that you canhelp us by contributing
financially if you have themeans to do so.
We want to keep this going andwe really just we have to ask
for help in order to do that.
(05:29):
That's just the way it is andwe're not ashamed.
Steph (05:35):
Join our email list.
Text us via the episode notes.
There's a little link in therewhere you.
We love feedback.
We love to hear from you.
Liz (05:51):
Yeah, absolutely, and stay tuned.
And, oh man, steph, I feel likeI'm going to take your line.
Enjoy this episode with KyleneKing.
Steph (06:25):
Our guest today is Kyleen King, a multi-instrumental
session musician, stringarranger and live on the tracks
of various artists, includingBrandy, the Decembrists, my
Morning Jacket, so many more.
And recently Kyleen has turnedher energy towards pursuing a
degree in social work to servethe mental health needs of her
colleagues in the musicalcommunity.
Kyleen, it is a pleasure andhonor to welcome you to the
(06:49):
Musician Centric Podcast.
Kyleen (06:51):
Oh, thank you, the pleasure and honor is mine.
Steph (06:54):
Oh man, Obviously, Liz and I have been following your
career.
We're huge Brandi fans, but Ithink I speak for most of our
audience, who are Brandi headslike we are.
What was the path that led youto be on tour with Brandi?
It seems like the dream jobthat we all when we get into
music we imagine for ourselves.
Kyleen (07:20):
you know, sure, sure, and I will definitely say dream
job is quickly deflated once youstart doing the work.
Steph (07:25):
It always is.
Kyleen (07:25):
So, just as a as this is who I am, I'm very real talk
about everything.
Steph (07:32):
We love it.
Kyleen (07:32):
And so I will just deflate everything.
Give us the uncut version, andI'm also extremely fortunate to
have had the opportunities thatI have.
So it's both.
Liz (07:41):
Yes.
Kyleen (07:42):
But the way that I got that job is the way that I've
gotten any other job, which isthrough who I know and how I put
myself out there.
And this is something that Itell people a lot.
When they're asking, how do Iget where you're at, I say can
you come to your relationshipswith other people in a genuine
(08:04):
and authentic way and nurturethem from a place of friendship
and interest, versus businessand promotion?
I've never.
I don't live in LA, so Iimagine there's a whole
ecosystem that works in thatmodel, but I've never approached
other people as I only want toget something out of you.
(08:25):
I want to know you, I'm curiousabout you, I'd like to just
expand my communal feeling offriendship and relationship and
meaning, and so that's how Iapproach any person that I work
with, and I have nurturedseveral genuine friendships over
my life, and the job withBrandy came from exactly that.
(08:48):
I like to share that I had metwith my friend, laura Gibson,
who's a singer-songwriter inPortland, and told her I was
looking for work because I hadlost my last touring job and I
was like, yeah, you know, justkind of keep an eye out for
anything.
And it just so happened thatthe former violinist of Brandy's
, lauren, got a job for theLumineers which had just opened
up.
Got a job for the Lumineerswhich had just opened up and the
(09:12):
communication went from LauraGibson to Lauren that I was
looking for work and so Laurenjust recommended me for the job
and it was all the timing kindof thing.
It just worked out perfectly.
They had seen each other, theyhad played music together.
I mean, portland's a small cityall things considered, half the
people that live here aremusicians, but we, it gets
(09:34):
around.
So I was really lucky to berecommended for that and I just
showed up in 2018 for the firstgig for her, and my audition was
the soundcheck of okay, here'syour job, like play the
soundcheck and then three showsin a row, and that's what I did.
Liz (09:55):
And, um, we, we were talking about, you know, the
things we don't know in thecareer that you've had, and one
being the fact that touring isthis notoriously grueling way to
make a living.
Um, and so you know, one of thequestions we had was what did
you see on the road?
What were your experiences thathighlighted these sort of unmet
(10:16):
needs that you've been seeing,that you want to serve as you go
forward with the social work?
Kyleen (10:20):
Just curious if either of you have ever toured before.
Steph (10:24):
I have never.
Liz (10:25):
Like baby tours.
Steph (10:26):
Yeah, nothing like that.
Kyleen (10:27):
Like go out for like get in the car, go to a place and
then come home or maybe stay outfor a couple of days.
Steph (10:33):
Right, like a couple of days kind of.
Liz (10:36):
I did a one week van tour, that kind of thing.
Yeah, handful of hotels, littlebits.
Kyleen (10:42):
Totally.
That's a little window into it.
I'm always curious of who I'mtalking to and if you already
kind of know the answer to thisquestion, one of the things just
stepping back out of just me.
Everybody comes to tours with adifferent life set of problems
and concerns and circumstances.
There are some people that arefar more adaptable and resilient
(11:03):
than others and some peopleabsolutely collapse and
everything in between.
So it's not a uniformexperience in that way between.
So it's not a uniformexperience in that way.
And for me, my childhood issuesand the way that I developed
made me be chameleon-like andadaptable, so that my discomfort
(11:23):
and my needs were alwayssuppressed in the interest of
serving others, which made mereally seem to do really well
for the first several years ofmy life, touring that you
wouldn't know on the surfacethat I was suffering underneath,
because I would have never, youwould have never seen it and
people would remark what's like?
You seem so comfortable and sosociable and blah, blah, blah,
(11:46):
blah, blah and it's like, yeah,I, that's a, that's a strategy,
it's a strategy for protectingmyself, that's a coping
mechanism.
And also, from childhood issues, I became hyper vigilant and
hyper observant and aware ofwhat everybody's feeling like
the temperature of the room andthe vibe and I cannot turn that
(12:06):
off.
So I'm constantly aware ofwhere everyone is at at all
times and just that alone wouldknock a person down.
It's exhausting to be in atouring environment where you're
taking on everybody's stuff andsitting with it quietly because
there's not a place to sharethe vibe on a tour, especially
(12:30):
when you're trying to live withpeople for weeks and months at a
time, years at a time on a busand you never escape them is
everything needs to be kind, oflight and fun and funny and we
don't talk about hard things.
We can talk about hard thingsin some little brief moments,
but it's hard to know who youcan trust and how you can
(12:50):
connect with people.
And these are my experiences.
I think other camps, other bands, other artists might have
different experiences and feellike this is my family and I
connect with them so deeply andhonestly.
That's never been my experience.
I've never really found mypeople in my touring experiences
as a professional, as aprofessional, and so I felt very
(13:15):
alone and very isolated andsuffering in silence and
witnessing a lot of othersuffering that's masked under
various layers of presentationLike no, I'm going to drink a
whole bunch or do a whole bunchof drugs or I'm going to be
super funny.
So you have no idea how muchI'm hurting, just like any other
job in the world.
We all have an idea about whatother people's professions are
(13:39):
like, and we don't know unlesswe go do it Right.
And so especially this one ontour, playing on stages in front
of thousands of people, andwe're also presenting on stage.
Liz (13:49):
Yeah, we are having the best night of our lives.
Steph (13:51):
Yes.
Kyleen (13:51):
And truthfully, that's not disingenuous.
Like every time I'm on stage,there are having the best night
of our lives.
Yes, and truthfully, that's notdisingenuous.
Like every time I'm on stage,there is no disingenuous bone in
my body.
I'm feeling whatever I'mshowing.
There's like, uh, we might becoordinating our dance moves for
a minute, but like it's real.
I'm real in that moment and the22 and a half other hours of the
(14:12):
day are the part that is thehard part of touring yeah so I
feel like there's a lot ofvisible examples of suffering.
The most recent is uh liampayne yeah like you've been this
famous person.
He's in one direction.
One direction had their bigmoment.
One direction doesn't have thatbig moment anymore.
(14:33):
Yet he's still a person, youngand existing in the world, who
had an obscene amount ofattention for a while and then
it's gone.
And how do you deal with that?
Drugs, you know any othernumber of addictions, even the
stage, can become a drug whereyou're trying to fill this
(14:53):
emptiness from the stage and itdoesn't last.
I I cannot not see that.
You know what I mean.
And it hurts.
It hurts more and more and morethe longer I'm out on the road
and I'm like I'm not able to dothis anymore, and a lot of that
came from my personal journeywith therapy and healing and
(15:16):
like that's why it's gettingharder to be in that environment
, because I feel like I'mstepping more into.
I want to take care of this, Iwant to heal this, I want to
address this, I want to talkabout it, I want to advocate
against these things that arecausing suffering and I can't
participate in the game.
I can't participate in thesystem.
Steph (15:38):
Yeah, you can't unknow things that you know.
Kyleen (15:43):
Exactly yeah, that was a big long stretch of.
Steph (15:46):
Oh no, thank you for sharing that because I don't
think that people talk about it.
Thank you for sharing thatbecause I don't think that
people talk about it.
That side of touring at all.
You know we all go to theconcerts.
You think that that image thatyou're seeing on stage is the
whole experience?
But of course it's not.
Of course we know this too.
We go on stage and we play aconcert, and it's this beautiful
(16:08):
expression.
Liz (16:16):
But we joke about.
You know, the bus rides up toNew York or wherever we're going
to play.
We're like this is so glamorous, isn't this a glamorous life?
That we live on a gray house,on a sprinter bus at 10 o'clock
at night.
My leg is cramping, it's a carsick oh yeah, yes, I think it's.
it is a really interesting thingto, once you start to do the
work, especially if you'resomeone who has struggled in the
past with you know you'rehighly sensitive, you're people
(16:39):
pleasing, you are prone to takeon other people's crap without
even knowing that you're doingit right.
I've had to do a lot of work inthat area and what's ended up
happening?
Well, first of all, I thinkit's really interesting for
anybody else who's had theseexperiences where, once you
start to recognize it, there's aperiod of time where you're
(17:01):
like I can't be in any of it.
I have to get myself away fromit as much as possible because I
now know what it's doing to me,because I don't know how to
take care of this thing yet formyself.
But then there's this reallyinteresting point in time when
you continue to do the work,where you start to recognize
that, like boundaries are thiswonderful thing that exists in
(17:24):
the world and they're hard,they're really hard Sometimes,
like I just you know totaltransparency.
I have a wonderful therapist.
I've talked about my therapistbefore.
She's been my therapist forlike nearly five years now.
She's helped me so much.
And just yesterday we werehaving a conversation about a
very what, what is seemingly avery minor thing in my life, and
(17:47):
I was telling her oh, I hadthis all structured out and then
this came up and now I don'tknow what I'm going to do.
And it wasn't even work related, it's personal related and
she's like you know, I never dothis, but do you want my advice?
I was like, oh, you got atherapist to give you advice.
I was like, yes, and she's likeyou need to stick with the
thing that you had structuredfor yourself for this reason,
(18:08):
this reason, this reason, thisreason, and I'm like but, but,
but.
And she's like talk it out.
And I talked it out and I waslike you're exactly right.
You're exactly right, you know,sometimes our boundary means
like letting go of a thing thatwe used to do all the time that
is no longer good for us, orfinding our limits Like maybe
it's not as much time and that'scertainly relative, even for I
(18:35):
think anyone can relate to thatin a musical career, whether
it's on the road, which is thisaggressive for sure, there's no
question, and I mean we all hearlike the party stories.
But the dark side of that is, ofcourse, 100 accurate and sad
and difficult, you know, becauseyou don't identify as
performers.
Like you said, everything'sauthentic on stage because it's
where we feel the most alive,it's where we feel the most
(18:57):
fulfilled and the rest of ourlives.
It's easy to forget that youhave so much more to being a
human and living the experienceof a human life than just being
on the stage and getting theperforming opportunity.
I don't know.
I think that's the challenge isfiguring out how to find value
and all of those things in yourlife too.
And I think it speaks to someother things that you've shared
(19:19):
about your own experience too,which we'll get into.
But I just think all of that isjust so well said and I think a
lot of people struggle withthat.
Uh, the taking on of otherpeople's stuff.
Kyleen (19:31):
I, you're not alone.
You're not alone, definitelynot alone.
We we largely do that.
We're all trying to avoidconflict and we are all trying
to avoid pain.
So, a hundred percent, whatyou're just spoke to, I feel
like, is we don't learn how tosit with our discomfort.
We don't learn who we are andwhy we are the way we are.
(19:55):
If we were all in therapy likewe should all be in therapy and
treated our mental health withthe same regard that we do our
physical health, we wouldunderstand ourselves a lot
better and be able to toleratethe discomfort of those touring
environments a lot more easilythe performing environments, the
rehearsal environment, the egostruggle of being creative and a
lot more easily.
The performing environments,the rehearsal environment, the
ego struggle of being creativeand working with other people.
(20:16):
Every struggle that you face inthe business can be tolerated
and managed and navigated if youhave some groundedness and
understanding of yourself andwho you are.
That's a big missing piece.
This is why I'm going to keepsaying this out loud in every
place that I can.
(20:36):
I want Taylor Swift to startpaying for a foundation that
provides mental health andresource support to touring
musicians in the touringenvironment, and not just
musicians, crew management,everybody that's out on the road
needs to be cared for on theroad in that space, because you
(20:56):
are alone out there,resourceless, with no support.
It's mostly predators.
And us kind of feeling like ourown advocates, trying to stay
ahead of the people that arewaiting in line behind us for
our jobs.
And so Taylor Swift has billiondollars and I think that Taylor
Swift would be on board toputting her name on a foundation
(21:19):
that I somehow get smarterpeople than me to be in charge
of and we start to create mentalhealth, structural support and
not only touring musicians.
But that is one of as I'vespent many years on the road now
that's one of the biggestglaring missing pieces to me is
that's.
Steph (21:39):
we need it there on the road yes, manifest.
Liz (21:43):
I am, we'll keep it in the pod, taylor.
You heard it here, taylor she'sa big fan.
She, she listened to all theepisodes so far.
I'm sure she has.
Kyleen (21:54):
Yes we're going to be best friends.
Liz (21:55):
But that's your community.
You recognize the struggleswithin your community, we have
the same experience in our own,and so what needs are being met?
Like when you ask how to be aperson of value in your world,
you're asking what the needs arethat need to be met.
And then that's the beauty,right, you started there.
(22:16):
Maybe it gained some success,and then maybe there are other
organizations that crop up thatstart providing mental health
resources to orchestralmusicians and the issues they
face, and they, you know it's asnowball effect.
Kyleen (22:29):
It's already becoming more common.
Like what you were sayingearlier is historically, for us
these are still new concepts andstill taboo because they are
still so new.
Like Backline is anorganization that's providing
mental health support that'sfunded by other people, so it's
like free you go, get casemanagement services from them.
Management services from them.
(22:54):
Even Live Nation createdTouring Career Workshop, which
is providing mental health andcounseling services only to Live
Nation performers, and it wasonly at the stadium and arena
level.
But I did see it and I met withsomebody because I was like,
hey, and it just started.
This was like last 2023.
So it's new and I'm on a mentalhealth committee for the Local
99 Musicians Union in Portland.
We are constantly talking aboutsymphony musicians because
(23:18):
everybody on that committee isin the symphony but me.
Liz (23:21):
We're talking about neurodivergence constantly and
how.
Kyleen (23:25):
ADHD and autism are not addressed and how it's severely
prevalent in the symphony scene.
I'm learning even more aboutthe difficulties of what it's
like to be in the symphony.
I had my own ideas.
I was like, oh well, you have asalary and you have benefits
and you have blah, blah, blah,blah.
And they're like listen, here'sthe reality of what that job is
(23:47):
like.
And I had no idea.
Liz (23:50):
So you're right.
Kyleen (23:51):
It's going to snowball, it's going to become more common
, and I'm just one in a sea ofvoices that I think are going to
come around to this more andmore and more People are talking
about it, more and more.
Steph (24:03):
Noah Kahan talks about it on the road.
Kyleen (24:05):
He's raising money for mental health organizations.
I think Lady Gaga, selena Gomez, like all of these massive
figures, are talking about it alot.
Simone Biles talking aboutmental health in the Olympics.
Totally, you know it's yeahit's amazing.
We're on the right track and Ithink things are going to get
better.
It's just been so hard for usnow and before the now, and
(24:30):
where the struggles are still attoday in the existing
environment for people workingright now.
Steph (24:36):
But you're doing more than just talking about it.
You're actually pursuing adegree in social work.
Kyleen (24:42):
Yes, I have many big ideas and I don't have enough
time in my life to do all thethings I want to do, but I'm
working on a master's degree insocial work right now, which
I'll be done with next August,in 2025.
And my idea is to be a privatepractice therapist for musicians
and creatives as one aspect ofmy work.
(25:03):
I also plan to continue doingmusic that I'm not going to burn
out on one or the other.
I'm not going to rely on musicfor income.
I'm not going to burn out ontaking on 30 clients a week.
I'm going to figure out abalance and I'm not going to
rely on music for income.
I'm not going to burn out ontaking on 30 clients a week.
I'm going to figure out abalance and I'm going to
advocate locally, nationally andmaybe internationally with
every organization I can findthat wants to provide resource,
(25:23):
support and mental healthsupport to musicians and
creatives.
It's really clear, you know,like we were saying earlier,
this path is just so clear nowwhere I'm like oh, this is how
old me and new me all figuretogether and why this feels so
meaningful and why I'm sopassionate about it.
(25:43):
Because, there's purpose in this.
That makes a whole lot of sensefor who I am and what my story
is.
So yeah, yeah.
Steph (25:52):
It's so clear that you're so passionate about it.
It's wonderful to see such aclear vision and with such heart
behind it and it's clear thatyou have a community out there
in Portland that needs and wantsand appreciates you for
bringing this up.
And it's nowhere more clearthan in your GoFundMe for your
(26:15):
social work degree.
Liz (26:16):
So, listeners.
Steph (26:17):
if you don't know, go check it out.
Kylene has a GoFundMe thatfunded her master's degree in
social work and Liz and I wereon there the other day.
Liz was just telling me whatshe saw, what you see on there.
Liz (26:30):
Well, okay, so here's what I was marveling at, and there's
like a few reasons we'rebringing this up, but I think,
first of all, it's definitely atestament to your community.
What I saw was that you posted.
You basically were very honestabout the reasons you were going
into this work and you werevery frank about the financial
restrictions of trying to dothis work, and you mentioned
(26:54):
loans and you mentioned the highinterest cost of that, which
we're all very aware of, youknow to try to pursue any kind
of higher ed degree costs somuch money.
And you were very frank.
You basically said, like thisis going to cost $20,000 for me
to go to school and it's goingto roughly cost me $20,000 to
live while I'm going to school,and I like that.
(27:16):
What you did was you first saidyou were looking for someone
who's like got resources thatwill just give you money, and I
love that because it's like, yes, I really wish more people that
had unlimited resources wouldjust hand it over.
You know, as we look at theworld of like tycoon
billionaires and the new era ofrobber barons and all, oh, yes,
(27:39):
yeah which is a whole other canof worms.
It sure is.
But then you look down and yousee you have raised this money,
but in looking at your donors,it's all just people who are
throwing a hundred bucks, 50bucks, 20 bucks, 150 bucks.
And we were just Steph and I,both were just thinking about
(28:01):
this, this concept of likehaving a community of support
and what it looks like actuallyto.
And I forget if I, if Stephanie, you'll have to tell me if I
had a more succinct way ofputting this but, I, just have
this idea in my head.
That's like, wow, you know, whenI know someone who has a
project and they're crowdfundingfor that project and I believe
in it, I'm going to throw 20 or50 bucks their way.
(28:23):
And then if I have a projectthat someone else really loves
or believes in, they're going tothrow bucks my way.
And this idea of likesupporting one another as we
explore ways to serve ourcommunities, it's meaningful and
it creates this sense ofcloseness and connection.
To tie it back to what all ofus feel as musicians is the most
(28:46):
important thing we do isconnect in various ways.
Here you are doing that, but Ithink we were curious.
How did you even think to belike you know what I want to do
this work?
I'm just going to throw a gofund me up there and hope for
the best.
Where does this community comefrom?
Are these people you knowpersonally?
Like, I mean, really it's aweird question, but I ask it
(29:07):
because I think the more thatartists or creatives are willing
to say out there I want to dothis thing, I have this vision
for doing this thing, I needyour help, the more we have to
offer.
Kyleen (29:22):
Right, it was so nice to hear you talk about it just now
, Like you really spoke so wellto the whole thing and I was
like, oh, it almost made me wantto cry just hearing you talk
about it um, because the ideawas I wasn't going to get enough
money from loans to even coverwhat I needed.
(29:44):
It was still going to be aboutten thousand dollars short and I
was like so I'm definitelysigning up for massive interest
for a long time and I'm going tohave to work a certain number
of hours and work with this manyclients for this long to pay
off this debt.
And I was fully expecting totake on loans and go into debt
as I was doing a master's and Iwas looking at the loans and
(30:08):
I'll be honest, I filedbankruptcy in 2015 for some
credit card debt that I had froman ex and I still can't even go
in.
I can't go into a bank and geta loan, like I, that expires
next year.
Steph (30:21):
It's a 10 year mark on your credit, OK 10 years and I,
it happens, next year.
Kyleen (30:28):
But I couldn't even go just like get a credit card to
pay for my life, for the rest ofit, and I was like okay, so
what do I do?
and the first thing that comesto mind is exactly what you said
.
Maybe there's a brandy fan whois just sitting on a mountain of
money and forty thousanddollars would be nothing to them
(30:48):
.
How do I ask for this?
And I was talking to myhousemate about it and my
housemate was like okay.
I was like here's my idea.
I want to try to find a Brandyfan.
I'm going to make a socialmedia post and see if I can get
a Brandy fan's attention.
And she was like just create aGoFundMe link so that if the
(31:09):
Brandy fan who has resourcessees it, they can easily just
put the money in so they have away to donate.
You don't have to manage orcoordinate or whatever with them
, just like it's an easy way forthem to just click on something
and send it to you.
So I made that post and I putthe GoFundMe link in the
comments to try to hide it,because I did not want my
(31:29):
friends to donate to it, becauseI felt an enormous guilt for
putting up a GoFundMe asking topay for my school, when I can
get loans, when there are peopleputting up GoFundMes for paying
for their medical debt anddealing with tragedy and loss
and I even went on the GoFundMesite and looked at the education
(31:51):
section to see how many peoplewere doing that there's like
nobody raising money to pay fortheir higher education.
This is such a unique thing.
Liz (31:59):
It's pretty crazy to me actually.
I agree.
Steph (32:02):
Wouldn't that be one of the most common things that
people go into debt for?
Kyleen (32:06):
Maybe these days I saw differently, just on the main
website.
Steph (32:10):
And so.
Kyleen (32:11):
I put that up and I was walking around my house like
this.
I felt horrible.
I was so nervous, I was souncomfortable, I wanted to get
it off, I wanted to take it down.
I was like what are you doing?
Like this is this is absurd.
(32:34):
And I was terrified of thecriticism and the judgment I was
going to receive and whatpeople were going to think about
me for putting this up.
And, of course, my attempt tohide the GoFundMe link failed
and all my friends saw it andthey started sharing it and they
started donating and within twodays it was to like $11,000.
And I was like, okay, this isout of my hands.
This was not my intention, butI cannot control the way that
(32:55):
this goes and I need to get outof my own way because I was
really struggling with how toprocess that that so many people
were jumping on that to donate.
And the kind of feedback youreceive from the GoFundMes.
I don't know if you've evertalked to somebody who's done it
or if you've ever done one, butthe kind of feedback you
received is it's just sooverwhelming.
It's like being at your ownfuneral and hearing the best
(33:17):
things about you, like I justreceived so much love and
support from my community, andthat community is not only
Portland musicians, but it wasBrandy fans.
A lot of them are follow me onsocial media.
A lot of them were donating.
A lot of them were reaching outtelling me how much it means to
(33:38):
see me on stage every time withBrandy and that they couldn't
be more happy to donate.
Friends saying like I am sohappy to give you the $25 I can
afford to give you.
It's just, it's so meaningful.
I didn't have words and I kindof still don't.
When I think about it, I'm likewhat can I possibly say about
what happened there?
And as I paid my first bill forthis first semester, I've been
(34:00):
trying to communicate back tothem how meaningful it is.
I'm like I have no debt becauseof you, because of you all, and
I also have to recognize that Iput myself out there.
Steph (34:11):
And if I hadn't put myself out there.
Kyleen (34:13):
I wouldn't be in this position.
Yes, and I can't recommend itenough.
Yes, what you're terrified ofis the thing that you probably
should go do, and I did receivesome direct criticism and
judgment from people I love,from random people online.
I saw it and I was like, ok,let's put on our big girl pants
(34:33):
and let's, let's see what thisfeels like and let's accept it.
I, it was so intense for aminute I almost pulled it down
because I was like questioningmy choice to do it and I didn't
and I left it up.
Um so uh.
If anything is motivationalfrom this, is that you can
rethink systems, you can reachout to your community, we can
(34:54):
create systems of support aroundus outside of this burdening,
oppressive system of capitalismthat says you have to do all of
these things this way and thesocial norms that say you're
supposed to do this and be thisand this is the right way, and I
just I have never agreed withthat and social work couldn't
align more with who I am becauseI disagree with all of those
(35:16):
norms.
I just I think they're absurdand I see how they allow people
to have power over others.
When you decide something isthe right way or somebody is
better than another person, it'sjust not true, so yeah.
I have a lot of feelings aboutthat and I'm so glad you asked
about it.
Yeah, great.
Steph (35:37):
I'm so touched too, because it was so vulnerable.
It was so vulnerable to putyourself out there in that way
and it was such a middle fingerto the system basically.
It really was, but I reallythink of it as like a return to
(35:59):
like what our basic human needsand instincts are.
We want to be part of acommunity.
We want to support each other.
We don't want to have to go italone Like we don't want to pull
ourselves up by our bootstraps.
No one wants to see that either.
We've glorified that for solong and it's, I think, a return
(36:21):
to what's really true aboutbeing a human.
Kyleen (36:24):
Yeah, that's true, exactly.
Steph (36:25):
Is reaching out for those connections and that community
and that village.
Kyleen (36:30):
Exactly.
It flies in the face ofcapitalism, and what capitalism
says is true Nobody has everpulled themselves up by their
bootstraps, nobody has ever doneanything without other people,
ever, ever A hundred percent youmight be.
No, you might be a remarkable,amazing human who's, like,
(36:53):
achieved unbelievable things,and you've done it because other
people have helped yousomewhere along the way.
We are all relying on otherpeople to get anything done, and
it's such a myth that you haveever done anything entirely on
your own.
You can't do anything on yourown.
You can't do anything on yourown, and it's getting that myth
(37:16):
and that lie out of the way cando exactly what you just said,
steph, which is return us towhat is true about us as humans,
as we are a social species whorely on each other and want to
connect and want to be inpartnership with each other and
care about each other.
We actually do care as much aspeople are trying to convince us
we don't.
We actually do and we still doalone in our houses, on our
(37:41):
phones when we're not seeingpeople.
We care so much and we want tosay that we don't because it
hurts to acknowledge the truththat we all do.
Steph (37:51):
Yeah, because that's the harder path.
Kyleen (37:53):
Yeah, it's the harder path.
It's caring, yeah exactly.
Liz (37:57):
Well, what do you think, Steph?
Should we lighten things up?
Kylie, how do you feel aboutplaying a game?
Kyleen (38:01):
Okay, do you like games?
Let's do games.
Liz (38:03):
Okay, it's like still going to be a deep thought, steph.
What do we call this game?
Steph (38:07):
Okay, so we're calling this game sight reading and so
we have this list of questionsand it's nothing as traumatic as
the real deal, okay they'rejust very light very
thought-provoking questions, andwe're going to ask them at
random, maybe two or three ofthem, and you can just tell us
what you think.
Just like, and I think I thinkit's worth mentioning.
Liz (38:26):
You are our first guest we're ever going to play this
game with.
Oh gosh, you're the very firstone and we're very excited, but
we also were talking about it.
We're like, I think kyleen'sthe perfect guest to do the
perfect yes, I'm honored, so Ihave I have this, um, oh, my god
, I can I.
I have to show kyleen what thislooks like.
So this is this will make itinto the episode, but I have to
(38:47):
show you the.
Can you see this?
Okay?
So this is the wheel and I'mgonna spin it and then we going
to ask the question thatcorresponds to the number.
Okay, go.
Steph (38:58):
Okay, you feeling lucky there it goes oh, it's making a
noise.
Liz (39:01):
I don't know if that's going to come out in the
recording, though.
Steph (39:03):
Oh boy, okay, okay, 16.
Oh, there's, applause.
Liz (39:10):
Okay, here's question 16.
What does success look like foryou at this moment?
Kyleen (39:25):
Success at this moment looks like knowing who I am and
what I want regardless of whatanybody else has to say.
Authenticity.
Yep, success is what I defineas success for me, not what
anybody else defines as success.
Yeah.
Steph (39:35):
It changes, right, yeah, yeah.
Liz (39:38):
Moving target.
Steph (39:39):
It is.
Liz (39:39):
Totally moving target.
Yeah, okay, steph, do you havethe list of questions?
Steph (39:46):
I do.
I already spun oh, you alreadyspun.
Okay, great, which one?
Yes?
Liz (39:50):
Number 27.
Steph (39:51):
Okay, best gig meal ever.
Kyleen (39:56):
Okay, this happened recently.
I was up in Alaska with theLobar Corral this summer playing
Salmon Fest in the Nilchik.
Steph (40:06):
As you do.
Kyleen (40:07):
As you do, and they had all of these salmon guy like
salmon fisher people, and theybrought their salmon, the way
they prepared it, uh, for us tosample as a contest.
And so we got to taste the mostdelicious salmon prepared in
all these different ways of alltime and it was just stunningly
(40:29):
good.
Like we, we, we were high, wewere buzzing oh my gosh we're
melting.
It was so delicious uh andfresh and fresh.
Oh, that, that's one of myfavorite food memories.
Liz (40:44):
That's so good, that was pretty good okay, uh, question
number 12 is what is somethingyou do differently than anyone
else you know, and why that's abig one.
Kyleen (40:58):
Yeah, whoa, wow, I'm scared to answer.
Steph (41:03):
There are lots of things that I do differently.
Liz (41:05):
I want to hear it.
Steph, how would you answerthis?
Kyleen (41:09):
I don't know how to answer this.
Steph (41:11):
Do you put all of your emails in different folders?
No, like organize them once youget them?
Liz (41:16):
I think you know the answer to that question.
Steph (41:18):
I do Just because it's so overwhelming to see a whole
inbox full of unanswered emails.
I feel better when they're infolders.
Liz (41:26):
Even if you haven't opened them.
Steph (41:28):
Yeah, okay, that might be .
I automatically go through anddelete.
Liz (41:32):
Okay, yeah, okay, that might be.
Steph (41:33):
I automatically go through and delete.
Okay, yeah, so Okay.
Liz (41:35):
Okay, I'm the anal one on this podcast no, but I love it,
I love it In case you didn'tknow.
I just I know that people sortinto folders Like that's a thing
, but like the unread part.
Kyleen (41:53):
I don't know if I know anybody else who does that part,
so that is unique to you.
Yeah, I think that's unique.
Yeah, okay, I thought the onlything I could think of here
which I'm sure other people do,is I have struggled to focus on
schoolwork and reading.
It's really, really hard for me.
So I have, um, like a tv showplaying on silent, plus music
playing plus like lighting and acandle and like my little
stress ball, and if I have allof these things going, they
(42:15):
distract all the parts of mybrain that don't want to be
doing that work and I can have abetter chance at focusing Every
time I tell people that they'relike what.
So I think I might be fairlyunique in this, but I know I'm
not alone, so I would love tohear from other people.
Liz (42:31):
I don't think you're alone.
I think that's.
I think the multiple, multiplefactors, though, are very unique
.
You know, like you have aspecific set of things.
Like I generally need to havesome kind of background noise to
work, for sure, yes, but likeit's usually the TV with the
sound on, or or because music Iactually can't.
I cannot work to music.
(42:51):
I find that very distracting.
Any kind of music playing.
Kyleen (42:56):
I don't listen to music very much which is very that's
interesting.
I don't like listening to musicthat much.
It's very rare that I want tolisten.
It's work, interesting.
Steph (43:06):
And I'm analyzing.
Kyleen (43:07):
But if I find the right like I basically exclusively
listen to Trent Reznor andatticus ross film scores um as
the background for my work, Ilove it.
I can revel in film score uhand soundtrack stuff um lyric
based stuff is I'm not asinterested in listening to.
It's a little more distractingthan I ever listened to lyrics?
Yeah, so I can also tune outlyrics as background yeah but
(43:31):
it's distracting enough to quietthat part of my brain.
Steph (43:34):
It's so weird yeah, oh, my god, that's this is.
This is amazing.
Thank you for indulging usthanks to being our guinea pig.
Liz (43:44):
Yes, okay you're the best.
This has been such a delight umto have you on kyleen.
Thank you so much thank you somuch.
Kyleen (43:52):
It's been so great to chat with you two lovely, lovely
humans, and thanks for askingthese great questions and I
don't know, just being sosupportive and smiley and caring
and wonderful.
Yeah, this is great.
Good job doing for your podcast, great job.
It's hard and you are making itwork.
Steph (44:10):
Thank you for that pep talk yeah.
Liz (44:14):
Thank you so much for listening today.
If you loved this episode,consider writing us a five-star
review on Apple Podcasts, amazonMusic, spotify or wherever you
listen.
Steph (44:24):
You can buy all your musician-centric merch,
including shirts, water bottles,koozies and a variety of other
fun items.
Liz (44:32):
Our theme music was written and produced by JP Wogeman and
is performed by Steph and myself.
Thanks again for listening.
Let's talk soon.
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com