March 20, 2024 • 43 mins
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Ever looked at your music career and wondered if there's more to it than the path you're currently on? Katherine Emeneth joins us with her wealth of experience as a studio building expert and career coach for creatives, ready to shed light on the vast potential that lies beyond traditional music paths. She steers us through the terrain of scarcity versus abundance in the industry, illustrating how to mold opportunities that truly resonate with your personal values and aspirations. Our conversation is a treasure trove of practical advice for those seeking to carve out their niche and invest in a life that harmoniously blends professional success with rich personal experiences.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Steph (00:03):
Welcome to the Musician-Centric Podcast.
We are two freelance violistsliving and laughing our way
through conversations thatexplore what it means to be a
professional musician in today'sworld.
I'm Steph.
Liz (00:15):
And I'm Liz, and we're so glad you've joined us.
Steph (00:18):
Let's dive in Make sure it's a little chilly today.
Liz (00:25):
It's like damp and icky out , which is the we're in this in
between.
Steph (00:28):
It's gross.
Liz (00:29):
Like doesn't really feel like winter anymore here, but
it's not spring yet, so we'reyeah, it's a moving target, but
it's on the horizon.
Steph (00:35):
That weather.
Yeah, my little bulbs arestarting to come up.
Poke their little green sproutsout, yeah.
Liz (00:40):
So it's gonna happen.
Yes, it's gonna happen, yeah,so it's a good month, the month
of March.
Steph (00:46):
Yeah, and we've got some great stuff for you too.
So we have a guest today.
Her name is Katherine Emenethand she has a company that she
started called KE Creative andshe is a studio building guru
and she also does careercoaching for creatives.
So we were talking to her abouta lot of different things, but
basically how to figure out whatyou want to be doing as a
(01:09):
musician and how.
It doesn't necessarily have tobe one of two ways, like either
you're gonna be a performer oryou're going to build a studio
or become a professor at auniversity.
Liz (01:19):
Yeah, We've talked a lot over the course of the podcast
with people who have kind ofbroken off the traditional paths
of performance.
But one of the things I thinkwe haven't covered very much up
until this point and we covereda lot with Catherine was the
idea that many people who loveto teach kind of put themselves
on the university track.
(01:40):
Their goal is to get auniversity job and their X
number of reasons Y and thediscovery that even in that
realm you can kind of carve yourown path and you can find a
very fulfilling career withoutnecessarily being on that track.
And so it's kind of continuingthis theme of carving out your
own path.
One of the things that Ithought both of us really were
(02:03):
drawn to was a concept thatCatherine shared with us related
to scarcity versus abundance.
We've talked a lot about thattoo, but the idea that there's
like this world we live in inwhich there's not enough work to
go around, that it's verycompetitive, that we have to be
kind of like working againsteach other or meeting each other
out.
And then there's this wholeother perspective, this whole
(02:24):
other world where actuallythere's plenty of work to go
around, there's plenty ofopportunities and it's more
centered around really craftingyour opportunities to be the
ones that you want the most foryourself and really identifying
with yourself in that way, andthe way she described it I
thought was just so effectiveand really fun to listen to.
Steph (02:43):
Yeah, so there's a lot of building, I feel like this
season.
We talked with Astrid earlierin the season about finding your
strengths and figuring out whatyour path is based on, your
strengths and what's importantto you, and this follow up with
Catherine is really nice becauseit's like, okay, well, now that
you kind of might have an idea,here's how you can go about
doing it and here's how you canfocus your efforts.
Liz (03:05):
And she has a bunch of courses and stuff which she's
going to talk about tooOfferings for those of us who
are still trying to figure outwhere we're going, yeah, and
then the other takeaway that Iremember very distinctly was we
had a conversation about theamount of investment that's
involved in kind of carving thistype of life out for yourself,
and it was really interesting.
Later on, we did not talk aboutthis in the conversation with
(03:27):
her, but I found a post that shehad shared a while back.
It's at the top of herInstagram, so for those of you
who are interested, you can goand check it out.
But she writes five hard truthsfor musicians.
Number three on it is if youallow yourself to take every
opportunity, you may miss out onlife, and she talks about how
she's been sort of guilty in thepast of making decisions that
(03:50):
are work-centered and kind ofmissing out on personal life
opportunities and things likethat.
But she says at the end of itlike there will always be a
music opportunity, there willalways be something there, and
balance has been resonating withme a lot lately, so I thought
that was a good thread ofconversation as well.
Steph (04:05):
Yeah, there's lots of great takeaways from this
episode, so let us know what youreally loved from it.
And, if you loved this episode,if we could just ask you to
share it with somebody who youthink might also benefit from it
.
That really helps us a lot,yeah, spreading the word,
collaborating with yourcoworkers, too, and your
colleagues and your friends tohelp lift everybody up.
(04:27):
And we do actually have somelisteners who did share our last
episode with Drew Ford, and thefirst one of those is her name
is Elizabeth Knob, and she's onInstagram at at life from the
viola section.
So thank you, elizabeth forsharing.
Liz (04:41):
Thank you, elizabeth.
And the other listener whoshared was Veronica Vitascova
Simonson, and she's at Veronica.
That's V-E-R-O-N-I-K-A,underscore V-I-T-A-Z-K-O-V-A.
Thank you so much for sharingthis episode.
It was just such a greatconversation, and the more
people that were able to connectwith them that way, the better.
Steph (05:03):
So yeah, so thank you and enjoy this episode with
Katherine Emeneth.
We are all busy, especiallythose of us who teach music.
We give everything to ensureour students' abilities and love
of music are always growing anddeveloping.
We want to make sure each onehas the right setup and
instrument, but we barely haveenough time to practice for
ourselves sometimes.
Liz (05:24):
That's where Potter Violins can come in.
Their sales team andtechnicians are also players and
experts on all string things.
You can send your students totry instruments, get properly
sized, have their currentinstruments adjusted or to pick
out a new bow or other stringaccessory.
You can have total confidencethat they'll be taking care of.
Potters will even ship whatyour students need anywhere in
(05:46):
the United States.
Steph (05:47):
So take one thing off your plate and send your
students over to Potter Violins,no matter what they need, and
Potter Violins loves teachers somuch they want to offer you a
10% teacher's discount becauseyou deserve it.
Liz (06:01):
Visit their flagship location in Tacoma Park,
Maryland, their rental locationin Gaithersburg, Maryland, or
shop online from anywhere atPotterViolinscom.
Katherine Emeneth is a musician,educator and studio-building
guru.
Through her KE Creative brand,she helps musicians create
impactful careers, whetherthey're looking for help
(06:22):
establishing, marketing orsustaining a private studio or
simply getting unstuck in theirentrepreneurship journey.
Originally on the traditionalpath towards a full-time
professorship, she wound updiscovering that she'd already
built her dream job on her own.
Through career coaching,consulting and engaging
Instagram content, catherine isgenerously sharing her skills
with countless other musicians.
(06:43):
We're very excited to welcomeyou to the MusicianCentric
podcast, Katherine.
Katherine (06:47):
Well, thanks so much, Liz and Steph.
Liz (06:49):
I'm thrilled to be here and chatting with you guys, so we
figured we'd just jump right intalking about your path through
the music educator world inhigher ed.
We both found it reallyinteresting to just consider
that on this podcast.
We're both freelance musicians,professionals.
We both have studios, so we'regoing to probably pick your
brain about that too.
(07:10):
We've discovered that ouroriginal training was in the
orchestral world.
Win an orchestra job, that'sthe plan.
Unfortunately, that market isjust simply very saturated right
now, so freelance musicians arehaving to really carve out
their own careers.
Of course there's overlap here,but this traditional path of
pursuing a higher edprofessorship, the full-time job
(07:32):
, get the doctorate, then you'llgo teach in a college Very
similar in a lot of ways, right,the market is kind of saturated
, and so can you tell us alittle bit about your experience
with that and how you got towhere you are right now?
Yeah, for sure.
Katherine (07:44):
And this is one of my favorite things to talk about,
because this allows us torethink what our music career
can look like, how it doesn'thave to be A or B, and through
my journey and many othermusicians' journeys we've had to
figure it out like what elsecan we do?
For me, when I started incollege, I was a music education
major because my parents saidyou cannot major in performance.
(08:06):
You need to have some type ofbackup plan, something that you
can do.
I'm super introverted as ahuman and I was like I don't
like kids, I don't want to dothis music ed major, I just want
to play like many youngmusicians do.
But in hindsight I'm sograteful that I did, because
that gave me that little glimpseof another field and how it can
(08:27):
look differently.
So I started there and then,after I graduated, I actually
taught general music at anelementary school for a year.
You are brave.
I had 600 students I saw everysingle week.
I taught seven hours of classes.
I was in charge of anafterschool chorus of fourth and
fifth graders.
(08:47):
I had 120 in that.
I was responsible fororganizing the talent show,
doing two full blown musicals ayear, and y'all, I am not a
singer.
I did vocal methods for thatone semester.
Liz (08:58):
That's where we're forced to.
Katherine (09:00):
And that was it.
Yes, exactly.
I'm always really grateful forthat experience because it made
me realize I actually do likekids and I actually love
teaching.
I just don't like in thatnumber, that quantity of kids.
So then, of course, like I waslike oh crap, what do I do now?
So I went back to school forsafety, got a master's in
performance and then decided tomove all the way across the
(09:21):
country to Seattle to pursue adoctorate in flute performance.
And it was there where I reallywas like oh, I want to do the
higher ed thing because it's allof my favorite things it's
teaching, it's playing and it'sresearching, being a nerd and
writing and impacting youngmusicians so that they can go on
and build a great career forthemselves.
Because all through my collegecareer I was that type of
(09:44):
musician who was like I'm theexception, I'm going to be the
one that gets the job, I'm goingto do whatever it takes in
order to make myself reallymarketable.
So I did things already incollege, like I interned with
the Atlanta Symphony and Ihelped with build out the summer
music program at one of theuniversities.
And then at my doctorate I didsimilar things.
I tutored the athletes in theathletic department in their non
(10:07):
major music classes.
To get that under my belt, Idid the whole, the whole
checklist of the traditionalthings we're supposed to do as
musicians, you know, teachingmaster classes.
I organized a summer festivaland ran the whole thing.
I built websites, I learned, Ifigured out how to do all of
that on my own, without any help, and at the same time, too, I
was like, well, crap, I'm livingin Seattle, it's extremely
(10:28):
expensive, I need an income,let's teach privately.
And so I was able to start astudio doing that.
So all of that kind of helpedme going in for a college
professor position.
And I had, I think I had sevenin-person interviews where I was
in the final three each time,and the thing that got me there
was not my fancy performingdegrees and international
(10:50):
competitions, but it was thefact that I had a music at
degree, I had built my ownstudios, I had created summer
programs all on my own and Iknew all of these skills and I
had done all of these skillsthat I could help the students
at the university do forthemselves to provide them with
that education.
So you know a lot of times notso much anymore.
(11:10):
But a lot of times professorswill poo poo like if you do
things other than practicing orlike gain other type of
experience.
But that was the thing thatreally set me apart from
everybody else.
I got my foot in the door, Didnot go to big name
conservatories or anything likethat, but it was just that my
career was so diverse.
So I was on that track to havethat traditional professor job
(11:31):
and then through that process Istarted realizing like you know
what, especially as I got intothe final three and I started
seeing the salaries.
Some of them were like $45,000 ayear for an assistant professor
job and like recruiting is ahuge thing and all the stuff
that they wanted me to do andit's living like in not ideal
(11:52):
places.
You know, I started goingthrough this phase where I was
like let's take a step back.
What do we really want toachieve in this life?
And what I really wanted toachieve in this life was loving
music and playing music, helpingother people and making as many
people as I can lifelong loversof music and helping this next
(12:12):
generation of musicians learnthe valuable skills of how to
create a job and to make aliving as a full time musician.
So then I had to stop and thinkdo I really need a title to do
that?
Do I really need that?
No, I don't really need thattitle.
So for me, that pivot kind ofhappened and it was scary, of
course, because you know, thereason why musicians are
(12:33):
attracted to those traditionalcareer paths is because it feels
safe, right, stay stable likeyou're.
You're walking into a placethat provides you health
insurance and benefits and youknow you don't have to make your
own income.
But the problem with that is inmarketing and in business.
There's a strategy that'sreally cool called Red Ocean
Blue Ocean strategy.
(12:54):
I don't know if y'all arefamiliar with this or not but I
use it all the time when I'mtalking marketing.
Okay, so it's a strategy that'sbeen around for a long time and
there's a book about it.
So if you like, nerd out aboutmarketing and business stuff,
like I do, you check it?
Out and basically is the redocean are all of the industries
that are in existence today, sothe known market space where
industry boundaries are definedand companies try to outperform
(13:17):
their rivals to try to get moreof the existing market.
It's cutthroat competitionwhich turns the ocean red
because of like what it's kindof a little bit.
So you have to compete in anexisting market.
You have to beat thecompetition, you have to exploit
the existing demand and youhave to align with the market's
(13:38):
current set of rules.
You have to follow the rulesthat the market is set up for.
What does that sound?
A whole lot like.
Liz (13:45):
Yep, yep, I mean right, sounds like our lives.
Katherine (13:48):
Yeah, it's the classical music bubble, as I
call it, and I mean the bubble'snot bad, but it kind of you.
There's roles you have tofollow.
You have to be okay with doingcertain things, like spending
tons of money to go takeauditions or to go travel or,
you know, be okay with drivingall over the place for freelance
work, and if you're okay withthose rules, then that's what
(14:11):
the bubble dictates that you do,and then you stay in that
bubble.
Steph (14:14):
It's also a small bubble.
Katherine (14:15):
Yes, it's very small.
Steph (14:17):
It's getting smaller.
Katherine (14:18):
And it's getting smaller.
There's more people beingcrammed into the bubble.
Exactly, it's getting reallyovercrowded it really is, and so
it's kind of depressing.
But the great news is you havethat red ocean, or the classical
music bubble as I call it, andthen you have the blue ocean.
So the blue ocean is where Istarted living and it brought so
(14:38):
much more help, happiness,positive impact in the community
.
And so, basically, the BlueOcean is our industries that
don't exist, they're the unknown, they're unexplored and there's
no competition.
It's vast, it's deep, it'spowerful, there's tons of
opportunity and places forhaving profitable growth.
There's no competition likeit's totally irrelevant if you
(15:01):
have competition or not.
You can create and capture newdemand in it and you can do
something different, you canpursue something different.
So our Blue Ocean is where, inmy work, I try to help nudge
musicians towards.
Is that Blue Ocean to try tothink of how their skill sets
are different and how they canimpact the world in a new and
(15:22):
different way?
The downside of the Blue Oceanis it's extremely scary to make
that shift in that pivot,because humans are herd animals
and we love sticking with whatwe know, people see as makes you
a valid musician.
So the titles, the doctorate,the checklist I won this job in
this orchestra or I played withthis orchestra last weekend
(15:43):
Versus starting something onyour own and being very, very
vulnerable.
So, as far as your questiongoes about those traditional
paths and breaking free andlooking into something different
, I always like to think aboutthe Red Ocean and the Blue Ocean
because, to me, in order for usto continue classical music
industry and to make it betterand to make it live on forever,
(16:04):
we gotta start thinking likethat Blue Ocean.
Steph (16:06):
I just, yeah, to make it bigger, yeah, I just love this
so much.
Liz (16:08):
It's like I've said this before many times but I was
always dissatisfied with thefunnel.
It feels like we're just stuckon and from an early age like 26
years old I was going I need tocome up with something.
I need to like do somethingdifferent.
I just I have to figuresomething else out, and it just
was like the feeling of redversus blue.
(16:30):
There's so many things thatthat evokes.
It's just very, very cool andwe've never been introduced to
that idea before.
But I will also say, even now Ican think of more than one
example from the last orchestrajob I played where that example
of toxicity, the like cut throat, like cut somebody else down,
it's mine.
I need to carve it out from, Ineed to steal this from another
(16:50):
person because there's notenough room for all of us Kind
of mentality is so pervasive andit's so fascinating to think
like we're just sort of stuck inthe shallows somewhere.
We're all like feeding off ofeach other.
But if you just get out thereinto the big wide blue open.
There's so much room and it isscary, like 100%.
(17:13):
It's scary but it's also sorewarding.
It's the place where you don'tfeel that pressure to like get
ahead of somebody else Likeyou're just doing your own.
You're swimming your own race,Like you're just doing your own
thing, right.
I just love that so much.
Steph (17:30):
It made me think of Liz.
We're doing a reading this bookcalled Creative Success Now by
Astrid Bombgriner, and a bigpart of you know she coaches
people in a similar waycreatives to find their own path
their blue ocean, so to speak.
But what this reminds me of,and what you said was important
to you when you were examiningyour own career path, was you
(17:52):
wanted to help people, youwanted to play music, you wanted
to inspire people kids to lovemusic for their whole lives, and
these are values and this islike the cornerstone of anyone's
career in music.
Once you take a step back andsay, okay, well, this career
path isn't necessarily what Ineed or want in order to be
(18:14):
fulfilled.
It's these qualities that areimportant to me.
So what can I do that involvesthese qualities.
Katherine (18:20):
Yeah, exactly, and like I remember even subbing in
orchestras and just feeling inmy body being so uncomfortable
and like worrying about whateveryone is thinking and when
somebody's gonna tell me likeyou're playing this too loud or
playing this too soft and like,am I gonna be asked back again?
Versus, like going and hangingout in a pit in the orchestra
(18:40):
for Cinderella or Mary Poppinsand like the retired principal
trombonist of the majororchestra sitting right behind
me playing beautiful sounds inmy ear and he was like, oh my
gosh, this is so much more funif I had only known this.
You know, and just finding thatfulfillment in that way, yeah,
and this is industry wide.
Liz (18:58):
It's like just a change of approach and I think you can
even you can see it inorchestras as well.
You know the orchestras thatare kind of taking this blue
ocean approach as opposed to thered ocean, and it is stark.
I mean, for a freelancer it'sstark.
I'm highly attuned to it now,but it makes decisions easier,
like if you're committed to thispath and it's working for you.
(19:18):
You know, I mean there's a fairamount of I think this is worth
talking about and maybe thisgets into like the pivot of you
know how do musicians go aboutdoing this.
There's a fair amount of likefaith or trust.
That has to happen.
That's like I know what I wantand I know how it feels when I'm
doing the right things and Iknow how it feels when I'm not
doing the right things, like.
But that uncertainty can bevery scary, truly very scary.
Steph (19:41):
How'd you get over that yourself?
Katherine (19:42):
You know it was a very interesting process because
when I decided to stop applyingfor college professor jobs and
just do my own thing, I honestlygrieved for about six months
about, you know, leaving thatdream that I had had for so long
behind.
You know, I would see in myinbox every now and then former
professors that would send melike flute professor job vacancy
(20:06):
postings and stuff and how theywere still trying to encourage
me to go down that path, youknow, because that's their job
as an educator, but not reallyhonoring the decision that I had
made to not pursue that anymore.
So it was really.
It's hard because we have allthis external pressure coming to
you and also the fact that youhave spent so much time pursuing
(20:26):
this one thing and you haveinvested so much energy and
money into pursuing this wholething and there's so many people
who've cheered you on to dothis thing and now you're
changing gears.
So it kind of felt likegrieving it in a way.
Oh, 100%.
I feel that very, very stronglyright now?
Yes, but on the other side tooand this is what I tell folks
that I work with and that Icoach is that if you believe in
(20:49):
your thing so much that youdon't care what other people say
and that you're going to do itanyway, if it helps one person,
then it makes it worth it.
Then you should do the thing.
You should at least give it atry.
This is what I'm happy toscream from the rooftops in
order to help at least oneperson.
I know I can't please everyoneand, of course, when people do
(21:09):
poo poo your posts or they sendyou random emails or whatever,
of course you're like oh crap, Imade somebody mad, or am I
doing the right thing?
What are people going to thinkof me?
And that whole impostersyndrome.
But as you go and doing thisand you start getting that proof
that yeah, this is actuallyhelping people, this is actually
a really cool thing that'sgoing to support people and make
(21:31):
their lives better in adifferent way, then you're like
okay, keep going, keep goingwhat the haters hate and show it
for the people who reallyappreciate what you've got to
say, one friend of ours was justtalking to me texted me not
that long ago about this theidea that actually most
entrepreneurs have what theycall portfolio career, which
(21:52):
means that there's multipleaspects of that and you can add
and you can take away andthere's always going to be
something different, which isagain goes back to that blue
ocean idea.
Liz (22:03):
This is a total tangent, but I'm going to ask it because
it's something that's verypresent of mine, for me in my
life right now.
All of this sounds so amazingand it's like I resonate with
the helper.
I resonate with this feeling ofwhen you're connecting to other
people, you're making a pact intheir lives.
You really feel it and you aremotivated by it and I feel,
(22:23):
every year I get older, mycapacity for that is fully
dependent on my energy levelsand what I'm capable of doing in
terms of taking care of myselfand having time.
This sounds like a lot of work.
Katherine (22:41):
See all these gray hairs that are coming in there,
friends.
Liz (22:45):
And I think it's important to mention this because this is
true.
I think this is one of thosethings that can limit sometimes
our musicians from going fromred ocean to blue ocean.
Mentality is that the stuffthat you just get called for,
that's your paycheck, that youkeep getting that job.
You get to a certain point inyour career.
You don't have to do the workto make that stuff happen, you
(23:06):
don't have to create it, it'sjust there, it's just a gig.
It pays you X amount of money.
You know how much it's going tomake.
Whatever, for us there's thisbig level energy that has to go
into everything you do, and ifthat energy is taken away, it
doesn't do as well.
So I think my question is andit's because I'm working on this
myself where's the balance?
(23:27):
How is your life work balanceand what do you do to decompress
and do you have any time todecompress?
Katherine (23:34):
Yes, yeah, that's a big question that I actually get
asked quite a lot of times.
In my opinion, as a portfoliocareer musician, as an
entrepreneur, even as a musician, there really is no balance.
There's never going to be atime in your life where you're
perfectly in a symbioticrelationship with the care of
personal life in your work life.
(23:54):
It's always going to be tiltedone way or another.
So I know.
For me, what I've had to figureout is where are my boundaries
of where I know what are thecaps of things that I can do?
So, for example, for my privateteaching studio, I have 16
students this year.
Four of them are graduating andso, even though I have a big
(24:16):
waiting list, I'm only going tokeep it at 12 next year.
So then I'm only teaching fourhours a day, three days a week.
So that is my cap for that.
I wish I could teach everybody,but that's not sustainable.
So keep those 12 going Forgoing out to schools and doing
sectionals teaching is one ofthe most exhausting things that
you can do for your body andsectionals.
Liz (24:38):
Oh, God, yes so much energy .
Katherine (24:40):
I love them.
It requires so much energy.
Liz (24:42):
So much energy, yeah totally so.
Katherine (24:45):
I have seven schools that I go to this semester.
The next semester is going togo way down to two schools that
I go see.
And then I'm recruiting otherflutists to this area so that
they can take on that work andso that they build our community
.
Give those other musicians theopportunity to learn these
skills.
So, and then for the onlinestuff, it takes a lot of time.
(25:09):
It takes a lot of time tocreate things.
It takes a lot of time tomarket things and you know,
especially these days, you seeall these ads that are like
create a digital product andhave a passive income, y'all
that is a bunch of things.
That is a myth.
There is no such thing aspassive income as a person who
has tried it numerous times, Iwork harder on my passive stuff
than I do on my active stuff.
(25:30):
That's a lot.
So you know, finding out whichthings you want to dedicate your
focus to.
The other thing that I do isthat I think of all of my
projects or all of my differentthings that I do in my portfolio
.
Career is like pots on a stove.
So sometimes of years, there'sgoing to be one thing that's
almost boiling over.
Right, that's the forefront ofmy attention, while the other
(25:51):
stuff's in the back burner andthen they rotate.
So you don't want to have allof your pots boiling over
because that's going to make youinsane.
So, like figuring out in yourschedule okay, when can I
dedicate the most time to thisone pursuit, Like when do I need
to focus on that and when can Ipush the other stuff in the
back?
So it comes with a lot ofplanning and a lot of
organization with the things.
(26:11):
But it's very important to planso that you don't get
overwhelmed and get intoparalysis or you don't want to
do anything.
Steph (26:18):
Yeah, yeah.
That's a very common sideeffect of overwhelm.
For me, yes, at least it's likeparalysis.
Liz (26:25):
Yeah, yeah, burnout in general, I mean it's a thing, it
is a thing for sure.
Katherine (26:30):
And I feel like that a lot of times.
Musicians especially, we runfrom each thing that's urgent to
the next thing that's urgent.
Put out the fire immediately,like what's the next thing I
absolutely have to do, insteadof focusing on the important
thing.
Yeah, is that urgent versusimportant thing?
That's always going on, so youalways have to step back and
look at what is important thatwill move me forward, not just
(26:50):
the fire that I need to put outright now.
Liz (26:52):
That's a great way to think about it, because, yeah, I feel
that shift.
I also was just talking tosomebody recently who was saying
they were just out one nightand casually talking to this
person who was the surgeon,talking about how they can never
take a break, like they cannever take time off because then
they lose their chops and thenit's like a whole balance or
whatever.
And but I'm like, do youunderstand, though, the funny,
(27:14):
like the way you're talkingabout this?
You're talking about the senseof life or death, but you're
literally talking to someonewho's working in the business of
life or death.
Like is this very funny to me?
I'm like, if surgeons can takea break and come back and still
save lives, so can we.
Katherine (27:31):
Absolutely.
Steph (27:32):
Yeah.
Katherine (27:32):
Yeah, and it's important to you too.
Steph (27:35):
Yeah, well, a lot of us just going back to your
transition from having this kindof blinders-on idea of what you
wanted to do to taking theblinders off and being a little
bit more open.
So a lot of us musicians arekind of realizing it.
The blinders are kind of beinglike ripped away, yeah, but as
orchestras, our opportunitiesare becoming fewer and further
(27:56):
between.
So the people who you coachlike let's say that you have
people coming to you that arestuck, they're unsure, they're
kind of in limbo how do youcoach them through this time of
trying to figure out what's next?
Katherine (28:10):
Yeah, and most people I talk to, that's how they come
to me.
And first of all we explorelike dream scenario, right, I
think a lot of times musiciansdon't allow themselves to dream
and we get stuck in this thingof having to do things, because
that's what the classical musicbubble says we have to do, and
if we don't do those thingswe're a failure.
Blah, blah, blah.
So first we start off withdreaming.
(28:31):
What are the things?
What do you want out of yourlife?
What do you want?
What are those values that youwant to have in your life?
What are the things that youwant to always do?
What are the things that's themost exciting for you?
And then we kind of pair thosedown into categories.
So if somebody likes to write alot, then that would go in a
category.
If somebody likes to play,which most people do, that goes
(28:52):
into a category.
If somebody likes to teach,then that would be another thing
.
If they are into numbers orbusiness, then we kind of look
and see what their interests are, the things that excite them,
because if you're not excited bysomething, you're not going to
be able to go all in and stay init, right?
So then after we do, that wetalk about okay.
Well, what is it about thosethings that excite you?
(29:14):
What you're thinking is mostlyis connecting with a person, a
young person, one-on-one andbeing a mentor to them, because
they had a mentor that wasreally really formative in their
youth For writing.
It could be that they'reintroverted, like me, and they
like that form of expressionbetter than they like talking or
teaching someone.
And then for business, a lot ofpeople will just like the
(29:35):
competitive edge and like seeinghow what they can do can impact
an organization or whatever.
So then I usually will say well, I will come up with a couple
of scenarios of different thingslike how does this sound to you
?
And either, if it's likestarting a private studio,
starting an ensemble, starting abusiness, starting this, that
(29:56):
and the other, they say, yeah,that's great, but, and then
there's usually some type ofobjection, some type of block
that gets in their way, and thenusually after that we talk
through that block.
Where is that coming from?
Is that coming from music school, where you were taught that all
you could do is play and allyou should do is practice, and
that you will be frowned upon ifyou do not go into this
direction or this direction,because if you don't look at it
(30:18):
straight in the face and reallyaccept it, that it's right there
in front of you, you cannotblow past it, like you have to
figure out where that is and ifyou're going to let it limit you
or if you're going to releaseit and then be able to pursue
the thing.
So usually that's a big part ofthis and most people when they
when they start working with mein whatever capacity, by the
(30:40):
time we're done, the biggestthing that they have gained is
confidence in themselves andknowing that they can do the
thing and that they feelcomfortable with it, because
they start off really scaredabout taking this thing and then
, by the end, really confidentand own the thing that they're
trying to create.
So there's a lot of limitingbeliefs out there for musicians
and there's a lot of things thathappen to us because I think
(31:01):
it's not addressed throughoutour education.
We are not given a taste of howto do this, how to do that, how
to do that.
It's getting better, for sure,but there's no guide, there's no
do this, this, this, this, andthat's how we've been trained as
we were kids.
Liz (31:15):
Yeah, I mean the blocks are also.
I think so much of it is likewe said before when you said,
catherine, that you had thisgrieving process you have to
also do the work of letting goof this concept that if you give
up that path, you are somehowlesser than and that your
colleagues are going to havethis attitude about you, that
(31:36):
you gave up on a thing becauseyou couldn't make it or whatever
, but I just think more and moreabout it.
I'm like but most of us are inthat boat.
Most of us haven't made it andwe're all.
So, who's fighting who?
I mean, we just had this.
We talked to somebody lastepisode that is coming out that
it's like this path we're put on, we're just our hopes get so
(31:58):
high.
I just think we all have thisidea in our head of like what
it's going to be, and then youhave to let it go and it's like,
but who's the one telling youthat you didn't make it?
Like someone else that didn'tmake it?
I don't.
It's like such a yeah, andwhat's making it earning $35,000
a year to teach at a universityor or let's just let's just say
(32:19):
you get your dream orchestrajob and you're making $100,000 a
year and then next year they'relike sorry, we're bankrupt, you
can't pay you anymore.
It's a wild thing.
I just I love all of this andso much.
You said like, ultimately, whenpeople come away from this work
that they do with you, thatthey're gaining confidence in
(32:40):
their own abilities and theirown path, and that's really
that's what everybody needs inorder to do this work.
Like it's not some magicformula of X, y and Z.
Yes, you can build skills.
Skills are important.
You have to learn the skills.
You have to know what skillsyou need in order to do the
thing you want to do.
But you have to believe that ifyou go it on your own, it's
(33:02):
going to happen and the struggledoesn't end.
You know you decide to take apath.
You're going to have rockymoments and you're going to have
moments where you're like Idon't know if this is going to
work, and then you keep at itand you keep believing in it and
it sounds so.
I swear I say this like everyfew years.
You know how, when we're kids,there's like that whole.
Just believe in yourself.
(33:22):
You know like believe inyourself and when you're a kid
you're like okay, whatever, yeah, believe in myself, but every
few years or so I take a momentand I'm understanding it on this
deeper level.
That's like belief in yourability to do things is what
allows you to do things.
Katherine (33:37):
Period.
Yeah, it's amazing.
Exactly.
It's like I tell people I usethis analogy all the time If you
go to the doctor and you haveto have brain surgery and the
doctor's like yeah, I'm reallyI'm not that confident in my
ability to do this thing and youknow, I'm kind of new at it.
I've only.
I went to medical school and Idid the stuff Like technically I
trained Like to beat impostersyndrome stuff.
(34:00):
It's like if that's how youpresent, do you want to pay that
doctor to do surgery on yourbrain and be confident in that?
Steph (34:07):
Just going back to what we were talking about, how you
know, it's really hard to pryyourself out of these ideas of
success that you have, and partof it is you've worked so hard
to hone this one aspect of yourbeing that is not your whole
being, and it's hard to realizethat that you are more than your
(34:27):
musical abilities.
You have strengths that are noteven related to that and you're
not even using them like halfthe time.
So what would happen if youtook those musician abilities
that you have but you also addedall the other things that
you're super strong at?
What would you be able to do?
I mean, we really we really doput ourselves in these narrow
little boxes, but there's a lotof different ways to use even
(34:50):
more of yourself to createhigher fulfillment and greater
success, exactly, which is why Ithink it's so important from
and I mean my poor privatestudents.
Katherine (34:58):
I make them do stuff all the time.
You know, I'm not even incollege.
I'm like okay, we're creating aconcert series, you're in
charge of programming, you're incharge of venue, you're in
charge of if we're going to askfor donations or not, you know,
and let's make some leaders wholearn how to do this stuff from
an early age.
Yes, and so I mean musicians.
(35:19):
I love medieval and renaissancemusic.
That is great and all.
But how much more powerfulwould it be if you had a project
based learning class that getsyou out in the community and
makes you have to createsomething in order to generate a
potential income or at leastdonations for yourself, so you
learn those skills.
So when you get out, you're notjust, you don't just have one
skill that you just know how toplay, but you don't know how to
(35:42):
make money for playing.
Steph (35:43):
I mean we make Girl Scouts sell cookies.
Liz (35:45):
Yes, exactly, but you know.
Steph (35:48):
That goes to show you yes , I'm a great musician, but I
also have organizational skills.
I can also manage an inventory.
I can also manage money.
Katherine (35:57):
I can do all these other things.
Liz (35:59):
But like here I am, like oh , I'm not a success because I'm
not playing full time in anorchestra, right right, you know
it's so interesting too tothink about, like both sides of
this coin where we talk about,and we know there are many
musicians who get the dream job,whether it's teaching in this
college or the orchestra, whosay that same thing to you,
(36:19):
catherine, who are just likemiserable.
And I'm wondering if a hugepiece of it is that part of what
makes us love being musiciansso much, or what draws us to
being musicians is the creativepursuit.
It's the expression of yourvoice, and the more you spend,
hammered down by whateverbureaucracy you're surrounded by
, the more limited you are, themore you feel tamped down and
(36:42):
you might not even recognizethat that's what's happening.
So on the other side of that,here we are teaching kids in a
music studio who may not even gointo music it's not important,
but we're teaching them how touse these other skills related
to their creative endeavor.
And then a musician who wantsto go in and be a professional
musician one day already isthinking about how those skills
can relate to their creativeendeavors.
(37:04):
And that is the most importantthing, because whether you're a
musician in a full-timeorchestra or not, you have the
opportunity to use these skills.
I mean you could do that evenif you have the full-time job.
If you're miserable on thefull-time job, what else can you
do?
Katherine (37:18):
Where's your blue ocean?
Right?
Like yeah and fun.
You know.
That's why I always say thatevery music student needs to go
in with a music and you knowthey need to find the blank from
the music and and the undergradis all about exploration.
Take Javanese Gamalon ensemble,you know.
Take a finance class.
(37:38):
Take things that are kind ofinteresting to you and see if
they are interesting to you andthen, when you choose your if
you go into a master's or if youdo a gap year or whatever
choose a place where you can dipyour toe into that other thing
and learn that skill too Doesn'tmean that you're not going to
get the job, but it does prepareyou for the time between you
graduate and the time you getthe job, so that you can
(38:00):
actually make money doingsomething that you like and
doing something that can pairreally well with music.
That could open a totallydifferent door for you, and you
can choose to stay down thattraditional path, for sure, but
at least you have something thatis marketable, instead of
having to go outside of the artsand outside of music to get to
the living.
Steph (38:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's very powerful.
Oh, I love it so much.
So we know that you've got allkinds of irons in the fire,
catherine.
So you have to share with usall of the new, like what you're
doing to help musicians andwhere they can find you and what
you're offering, and tell usall those things.
Katherine (38:34):
Yes, okay, absolutely so.
I'm on Instagram.
Just my name, Katherine Emeneth, and then my team member,
Natalie.
She actually just launched herkind of branch of our company,
Instagram, called the LimitlessMusician, where she's going to
talk about breaking down all ofthose limits that we talked
about earlier.
She's one of the people that Icoached several years ago and,
really great.
I love hiring people that I'veworked with and that have had
(38:56):
success, so we're there.
We're also on Facebook.
We have a group calledClassical Musicianier, which is
about musicians who engineertheir career, and we offer a
little advice and discussionstuff like that.
As far as like our onlinethings, we have several.
We have so many freebies on ourwebsite, like so many, and the
website right now isKatherineEmeneth.
com, so I have stuff on thereabout starting private studios,
(39:18):
downloads for music teacherswith things that they can use,
mindset stuff, et cetera.
And then for if folks arelooking to get involved with us
more in coaching, in a couple ofweeks we're going to open up
enrollment again for ourcoaching program, the Music
Teachers Playbook, which is forprivate music development.
For sure, it's like we hold yourhand and help youth through all
these blocks and barriers tocreate a fulfilling career
(39:41):
teaching privately.
But the cool part about it isthat the skills that you learn
in there apply to anything applyto marketing yourself as a
freelancer if you want to startan ensemble, anything and
everything, and that's whygraduates always come back to us
and say, okay, I want to dothis thing next, you know, and
are excited about being able tosee the next thing.
So those are the things that wehave coming up, and I also
(40:03):
offer free strategy calls foryou know people who are in music
school who are really unsure.
They see that ends of theirstudies coming up and they just
need a little help and a littlecoaching.
So I do that totally for free,just to like talk to people and
get to know them and provide alittle insight into their
situation, and so that's on theside as well, and we've had a
couple of new things that arebeing cooked up right now, so
(40:25):
I'm not going to share aboutthat, right now, but people can
follow us to find out more aboutthat.
Liz (40:30):
Very cool Congratulations on all these things.
I remember a classical musicianhere was like one of the first
things I think we found when wewere getting rolling with the
podcast now over three years ago, and it was just like it's so
nice to see this whole world ofentrepreneurial musicians
opening themselves up, showingthe world who they are, offering
(40:51):
their own expertise, their ownexperience, their own knowledge
and wisdom with other musicianswho are looking to pursue this
path, because I feel like themore this community expands, the
better for our industry, justin general.
So it's yeah.
Steph (41:06):
Absolutely For the perpetuation of our industry it
needs to grow not shrink Exactly.
Katherine (41:13):
Thanks for being a part of that world.
Yes, absolutely, it's beenreally, really cool.
Steph (41:17):
Thanks for making time for us today.
Thank you, Katherine.
Liz (41:22):
Thank you so much for listening today.
If you loved this episode,consider writing us a five-star
review on Apple podcasts, Amazonmusic, Spotify or wherever you
listen.
Steph (41:32):
Thanks also to our season sponsor, Potter Violins.
Liz (41:35):
If you'd like to support the podcast and get access to
bonus content, consider joiningour Patreon community.
Steph (41:41):
You can buy all your MusicianCentric merch, including
shirts, water bottles, kooziesand a variety of other fun items
.
Liz (41:49):
Our theme music was written and produced by JP.
Wogerman and is performed bySteph and Myself.
Steph (41:54):
Our episodes are produced by Liz O'Hara and edited by
Emily McMahon.
Liz (41:58):
Thanks again for listening.
Let's talk soon.
Now.
Welcome to the Musician-Centric Podcast.
We are two freelance violistsliving and laughing our way
through conversations thatexplore what it means to be a
professional musician in today'sworld.
I'm Steph.
Liz (00:15):
And I'm Liz, and we're so glad you've joined us.
Steph (00:18):
Let's dive in Make sure it's a little chilly today.
Liz (00:25):
It's like damp and icky out , which is the we're in this in
between.
Steph (00:28):
It's gross.
Liz (00:29):
Like doesn't really feel like winter anymore here, but
it's not spring yet, so we'reyeah, it's a moving target, but
it's on the horizon.
Steph (00:35):
That weather.
Yeah, my little bulbs arestarting to come up.
Poke their little green sproutsout, yeah.
Liz (00:40):
So it's gonna happen.
Yes, it's gonna happen, yeah,so it's a good month, the month
of March.
Steph (00:46):
Yeah, and we've got some great stuff for you too.
So we have a guest today.
Her name is Katherine Emenethand she has a company that she
started called KE Creative andshe is a studio building guru
and she also does careercoaching for creatives.
So we were talking to her abouta lot of different things, but
basically how to figure out whatyou want to be doing as a
(01:09):
musician and how.
It doesn't necessarily have tobe one of two ways, like either
you're gonna be a performer oryou're going to build a studio
or become a professor at auniversity.
Liz (01:19):
Yeah, We've talked a lot over the course of the podcast
with people who have kind ofbroken off the traditional paths
of performance.
But one of the things I thinkwe haven't covered very much up
until this point and we covereda lot with Catherine was the
idea that many people who loveto teach kind of put themselves
on the university track.
(01:40):
Their goal is to get auniversity job and their X
number of reasons Y and thediscovery that even in that
realm you can kind of carve yourown path and you can find a
very fulfilling career withoutnecessarily being on that track.
And so it's kind of continuingthis theme of carving out your
own path.
One of the things that Ithought both of us really were
(02:03):
drawn to was a concept thatCatherine shared with us related
to scarcity versus abundance.
We've talked a lot about thattoo, but the idea that there's
like this world we live in inwhich there's not enough work to
go around, that it's verycompetitive, that we have to be
kind of like working againsteach other or meeting each other
out.
And then there's this wholeother perspective, this whole
(02:24):
other world where actuallythere's plenty of work to go
around, there's plenty ofopportunities and it's more
centered around really craftingyour opportunities to be the
ones that you want the most foryourself and really identifying
with yourself in that way, andthe way she described it I
thought was just so effectiveand really fun to listen to.
Steph (02:43):
Yeah, so there's a lot of building, I feel like this
season.
We talked with Astrid earlierin the season about finding your
strengths and figuring out whatyour path is based on, your
strengths and what's importantto you, and this follow up with
Catherine is really nice becauseit's like, okay, well, now that
you kind of might have an idea,here's how you can go about
doing it and here's how you canfocus your efforts.
Liz (03:05):
And she has a bunch of courses and stuff which she's
going to talk about tooOfferings for those of us who
are still trying to figure outwhere we're going, yeah, and
then the other takeaway that Iremember very distinctly was we
had a conversation about theamount of investment that's
involved in kind of carving thistype of life out for yourself,
and it was really interesting.
Later on, we did not talk aboutthis in the conversation with
(03:27):
her, but I found a post that shehad shared a while back.
It's at the top of herInstagram, so for those of you
who are interested, you can goand check it out.
But she writes five hard truthsfor musicians.
Number three on it is if youallow yourself to take every
opportunity, you may miss out onlife, and she talks about how
she's been sort of guilty in thepast of making decisions that
(03:50):
are work-centered and kind ofmissing out on personal life
opportunities and things likethat.
But she says at the end of itlike there will always be a
music opportunity, there willalways be something there, and
balance has been resonating withme a lot lately, so I thought
that was a good thread ofconversation as well.
Steph (04:05):
Yeah, there's lots of great takeaways from this
episode, so let us know what youreally loved from it.
And, if you loved this episode,if we could just ask you to
share it with somebody who youthink might also benefit from it
.
That really helps us a lot,yeah, spreading the word,
collaborating with yourcoworkers, too, and your
colleagues and your friends tohelp lift everybody up.
(04:27):
And we do actually have somelisteners who did share our last
episode with Drew Ford, and thefirst one of those is her name
is Elizabeth Knob, and she's onInstagram at at life from the
viola section.
So thank you, elizabeth forsharing.
Liz (04:41):
Thank you, elizabeth.
And the other listener whoshared was Veronica Vitascova
Simonson, and she's at Veronica.
That's V-E-R-O-N-I-K-A,underscore V-I-T-A-Z-K-O-V-A.
Thank you so much for sharingthis episode.
It was just such a greatconversation, and the more
people that were able to connectwith them that way, the better.
Steph (05:03):
So yeah, so thank you and enjoy this episode with
Katherine Emeneth.
We are all busy, especiallythose of us who teach music.
We give everything to ensureour students' abilities and love
of music are always growing anddeveloping.
We want to make sure each onehas the right setup and
instrument, but we barely haveenough time to practice for
ourselves sometimes.
Liz (05:24):
That's where Potter Violins can come in.
Their sales team andtechnicians are also players and
experts on all string things.
You can send your students totry instruments, get properly
sized, have their currentinstruments adjusted or to pick
out a new bow or other stringaccessory.
You can have total confidencethat they'll be taking care of.
Potters will even ship whatyour students need anywhere in
(05:46):
the United States.
Steph (05:47):
So take one thing off your plate and send your
students over to Potter Violins,no matter what they need, and
Potter Violins loves teachers somuch they want to offer you a
10% teacher's discount becauseyou deserve it.
Liz (06:01):
Visit their flagship location in Tacoma Park,
Maryland, their rental locationin Gaithersburg, Maryland, or
shop online from anywhere atPotterViolinscom.
Katherine Emeneth is a musician,educator and studio-building
guru.
Through her KE Creative brand,she helps musicians create
impactful careers, whetherthey're looking for help
(06:22):
establishing, marketing orsustaining a private studio or
simply getting unstuck in theirentrepreneurship journey.
Originally on the traditionalpath towards a full-time
professorship, she wound updiscovering that she'd already
built her dream job on her own.
Through career coaching,consulting and engaging
Instagram content, catherine isgenerously sharing her skills
with countless other musicians.
(06:43):
We're very excited to welcomeyou to the MusicianCentric
podcast, Katherine.
Katherine (06:47):
Well, thanks so much, Liz and Steph.
Liz (06:49):
I'm thrilled to be here and chatting with you guys, so we
figured we'd just jump right intalking about your path through
the music educator world inhigher ed.
We both found it reallyinteresting to just consider
that on this podcast.
We're both freelance musicians,professionals.
We both have studios, so we'regoing to probably pick your
brain about that too.
(07:10):
We've discovered that ouroriginal training was in the
orchestral world.
Win an orchestra job, that'sthe plan.
Unfortunately, that market isjust simply very saturated right
now, so freelance musicians arehaving to really carve out
their own careers.
Of course there's overlap here,but this traditional path of
pursuing a higher edprofessorship, the full-time job
(07:32):
, get the doctorate, then you'llgo teach in a college Very
similar in a lot of ways, right,the market is kind of saturated
, and so can you tell us alittle bit about your experience
with that and how you got towhere you are right now?
Yeah, for sure.
Katherine (07:44):
And this is one of my favorite things to talk about,
because this allows us torethink what our music career
can look like, how it doesn'thave to be A or B, and through
my journey and many othermusicians' journeys we've had to
figure it out like what elsecan we do?
For me, when I started incollege, I was a music education
major because my parents saidyou cannot major in performance.
(08:06):
You need to have some type ofbackup plan, something that you
can do.
I'm super introverted as ahuman and I was like I don't
like kids, I don't want to dothis music ed major, I just want
to play like many youngmusicians do.
But in hindsight I'm sograteful that I did, because
that gave me that little glimpseof another field and how it can
(08:27):
look differently.
So I started there and then,after I graduated, I actually
taught general music at anelementary school for a year.
You are brave.
I had 600 students I saw everysingle week.
I taught seven hours of classes.
I was in charge of anafterschool chorus of fourth and
fifth graders.
(08:47):
I had 120 in that.
I was responsible fororganizing the talent show,
doing two full blown musicals ayear, and y'all, I am not a
singer.
I did vocal methods for thatone semester.
Liz (08:58):
That's where we're forced to.
Katherine (09:00):
And that was it.
Yes, exactly.
I'm always really grateful forthat experience because it made
me realize I actually do likekids and I actually love
teaching.
I just don't like in thatnumber, that quantity of kids.
So then, of course, like I waslike oh crap, what do I do now?
So I went back to school forsafety, got a master's in
performance and then decided tomove all the way across the
(09:21):
country to Seattle to pursue adoctorate in flute performance.
And it was there where I reallywas like oh, I want to do the
higher ed thing because it's allof my favorite things it's
teaching, it's playing and it'sresearching, being a nerd and
writing and impacting youngmusicians so that they can go on
and build a great career forthemselves.
Because all through my collegecareer I was that type of
(09:44):
musician who was like I'm theexception, I'm going to be the
one that gets the job, I'm goingto do whatever it takes in
order to make myself reallymarketable.
So I did things already incollege, like I interned with
the Atlanta Symphony and Ihelped with build out the summer
music program at one of theuniversities.
And then at my doctorate I didsimilar things.
I tutored the athletes in theathletic department in their non
(10:07):
major music classes.
To get that under my belt, Idid the whole, the whole
checklist of the traditionalthings we're supposed to do as
musicians, you know, teachingmaster classes.
I organized a summer festivaland ran the whole thing.
I built websites, I learned, Ifigured out how to do all of
that on my own, without any help, and at the same time, too, I
was like, well, crap, I'm livingin Seattle, it's extremely
(10:28):
expensive, I need an income,let's teach privately.
And so I was able to start astudio doing that.
So all of that kind of helpedme going in for a college
professor position.
And I had, I think I had sevenin-person interviews where I was
in the final three each time,and the thing that got me there
was not my fancy performingdegrees and international
(10:50):
competitions, but it was thefact that I had a music at
degree, I had built my ownstudios, I had created summer
programs all on my own and Iknew all of these skills and I
had done all of these skillsthat I could help the students
at the university do forthemselves to provide them with
that education.
So you know a lot of times notso much anymore.
(11:10):
But a lot of times professorswill poo poo like if you do
things other than practicing orlike gain other type of
experience.
But that was the thing thatreally set me apart from
everybody else.
I got my foot in the door, Didnot go to big name
conservatories or anything likethat, but it was just that my
career was so diverse.
So I was on that track to havethat traditional professor job
(11:31):
and then through that process Istarted realizing like you know
what, especially as I got intothe final three and I started
seeing the salaries.
Some of them were like $45,000 ayear for an assistant professor
job and like recruiting is ahuge thing and all the stuff
that they wanted me to do andit's living like in not ideal
(11:52):
places.
You know, I started goingthrough this phase where I was
like let's take a step back.
What do we really want toachieve in this life?
And what I really wanted toachieve in this life was loving
music and playing music, helpingother people and making as many
people as I can lifelong loversof music and helping this next
(12:12):
generation of musicians learnthe valuable skills of how to
create a job and to make aliving as a full time musician.
So then I had to stop and thinkdo I really need a title to do
that?
Do I really need that?
No, I don't really need thattitle.
So for me, that pivot kind ofhappened and it was scary, of
course, because you know, thereason why musicians are
(12:33):
attracted to those traditionalcareer paths is because it feels
safe, right, stay stable likeyou're.
You're walking into a placethat provides you health
insurance and benefits and youknow you don't have to make your
own income.
But the problem with that is inmarketing and in business.
There's a strategy that'sreally cool called Red Ocean
Blue Ocean strategy.
(12:54):
I don't know if y'all arefamiliar with this or not but I
use it all the time when I'mtalking marketing.
Okay, so it's a strategy that'sbeen around for a long time and
there's a book about it.
So if you like, nerd out aboutmarketing and business stuff,
like I do, you check it?
Out and basically is the redocean are all of the industries
that are in existence today, sothe known market space where
industry boundaries are definedand companies try to outperform
(13:17):
their rivals to try to get moreof the existing market.
It's cutthroat competitionwhich turns the ocean red
because of like what it's kindof a little bit.
So you have to compete in anexisting market.
You have to beat thecompetition, you have to exploit
the existing demand and youhave to align with the market's
(13:38):
current set of rules.
You have to follow the rulesthat the market is set up for.
What does that sound?
A whole lot like.
Liz (13:45):
Yep, yep, I mean right, sounds like our lives.
Katherine (13:48):
Yeah, it's the classical music bubble, as I
call it, and I mean the bubble'snot bad, but it kind of you.
There's roles you have tofollow.
You have to be okay with doingcertain things, like spending
tons of money to go takeauditions or to go travel or,
you know, be okay with drivingall over the place for freelance
work, and if you're okay withthose rules, then that's what
(14:11):
the bubble dictates that you do,and then you stay in that
bubble.
Steph (14:14):
It's also a small bubble.
Katherine (14:15):
Yes, it's very small.
Steph (14:17):
It's getting smaller.
Katherine (14:18):
And it's getting smaller.
There's more people beingcrammed into the bubble.
Exactly, it's getting reallyovercrowded it really is, and so
it's kind of depressing.
But the great news is you havethat red ocean, or the classical
music bubble as I call it, andthen you have the blue ocean.
So the blue ocean is where Istarted living and it brought so
(14:38):
much more help, happiness,positive impact in the community
.
And so, basically, the BlueOcean is our industries that
don't exist, they're the unknown, they're unexplored and there's
no competition.
It's vast, it's deep, it'spowerful, there's tons of
opportunity and places forhaving profitable growth.
There's no competition likeit's totally irrelevant if you
(15:01):
have competition or not.
You can create and capture newdemand in it and you can do
something different, you canpursue something different.
So our Blue Ocean is where, inmy work, I try to help nudge
musicians towards.
Is that Blue Ocean to try tothink of how their skill sets
are different and how they canimpact the world in a new and
(15:22):
different way?
The downside of the Blue Oceanis it's extremely scary to make
that shift in that pivot,because humans are herd animals
and we love sticking with whatwe know, people see as makes you
a valid musician.
So the titles, the doctorate,the checklist I won this job in
this orchestra or I played withthis orchestra last weekend
(15:43):
Versus starting something onyour own and being very, very
vulnerable.
So, as far as your questiongoes about those traditional
paths and breaking free andlooking into something different
, I always like to think aboutthe Red Ocean and the Blue Ocean
because, to me, in order for usto continue classical music
industry and to make it betterand to make it live on forever,
(16:04):
we gotta start thinking likethat Blue Ocean.
Steph (16:06):
I just, yeah, to make it bigger, yeah, I just love this
so much.
Liz (16:08):
It's like I've said this before many times but I was
always dissatisfied with thefunnel.
It feels like we're just stuckon and from an early age like 26
years old I was going I need tocome up with something.
I need to like do somethingdifferent.
I just I have to figuresomething else out, and it just
was like the feeling of redversus blue.
(16:30):
There's so many things thatthat evokes.
It's just very, very cool andwe've never been introduced to
that idea before.
But I will also say, even now Ican think of more than one
example from the last orchestrajob I played where that example
of toxicity, the like cut throat, like cut somebody else down,
it's mine.
I need to carve it out from, Ineed to steal this from another
(16:50):
person because there's notenough room for all of us Kind
of mentality is so pervasive andit's so fascinating to think
like we're just sort of stuck inthe shallows somewhere.
We're all like feeding off ofeach other.
But if you just get out thereinto the big wide blue open.
There's so much room and it isscary, like 100%.
(17:13):
It's scary but it's also sorewarding.
It's the place where you don'tfeel that pressure to like get
ahead of somebody else Likeyou're just doing your own.
You're swimming your own race,Like you're just doing your own
thing, right.
I just love that so much.
Steph (17:30):
It made me think of Liz.
We're doing a reading this bookcalled Creative Success Now by
Astrid Bombgriner, and a bigpart of you know she coaches
people in a similar waycreatives to find their own path
their blue ocean, so to speak.
But what this reminds me of,and what you said was important
to you when you were examiningyour own career path, was you
(17:52):
wanted to help people, youwanted to play music, you wanted
to inspire people kids to lovemusic for their whole lives, and
these are values and this islike the cornerstone of anyone's
career in music.
Once you take a step back andsay, okay, well, this career
path isn't necessarily what Ineed or want in order to be
(18:14):
fulfilled.
It's these qualities that areimportant to me.
So what can I do that involvesthese qualities.
Katherine (18:20):
Yeah, exactly, and like I remember even subbing in
orchestras and just feeling inmy body being so uncomfortable
and like worrying about whateveryone is thinking and when
somebody's gonna tell me likeyou're playing this too loud or
playing this too soft and like,am I gonna be asked back again?
Versus, like going and hangingout in a pit in the orchestra
(18:40):
for Cinderella or Mary Poppinsand like the retired principal
trombonist of the majororchestra sitting right behind
me playing beautiful sounds inmy ear and he was like, oh my
gosh, this is so much more funif I had only known this.
You know, and just finding thatfulfillment in that way, yeah,
and this is industry wide.
Liz (18:58):
It's like just a change of approach and I think you can
even you can see it inorchestras as well.
You know the orchestras thatare kind of taking this blue
ocean approach as opposed to thered ocean, and it is stark.
I mean, for a freelancer it'sstark.
I'm highly attuned to it now,but it makes decisions easier,
like if you're committed to thispath and it's working for you.
(19:18):
You know, I mean there's a fairamount of I think this is worth
talking about and maybe thisgets into like the pivot of you
know how do musicians go aboutdoing this.
There's a fair amount of likefaith or trust.
That has to happen.
That's like I know what I wantand I know how it feels when I'm
doing the right things and Iknow how it feels when I'm not
doing the right things, like.
But that uncertainty can bevery scary, truly very scary.
Steph (19:41):
How'd you get over that yourself?
Katherine (19:42):
You know it was a very interesting process because
when I decided to stop applyingfor college professor jobs and
just do my own thing, I honestlygrieved for about six months
about, you know, leaving thatdream that I had had for so long
behind.
You know, I would see in myinbox every now and then former
professors that would send melike flute professor job vacancy
(20:06):
postings and stuff and how theywere still trying to encourage
me to go down that path, youknow, because that's their job
as an educator, but not reallyhonoring the decision that I had
made to not pursue that anymore.
So it was really.
It's hard because we have allthis external pressure coming to
you and also the fact that youhave spent so much time pursuing
(20:26):
this one thing and you haveinvested so much energy and
money into pursuing this wholething and there's so many people
who've cheered you on to dothis thing and now you're
changing gears.
So it kind of felt likegrieving it in a way.
Oh, 100%.
I feel that very, very stronglyright now?
Yes, but on the other side tooand this is what I tell folks
that I work with and that Icoach is that if you believe in
(20:49):
your thing so much that youdon't care what other people say
and that you're going to do itanyway, if it helps one person,
then it makes it worth it.
Then you should do the thing.
You should at least give it atry.
This is what I'm happy toscream from the rooftops in
order to help at least oneperson.
I know I can't please everyoneand, of course, when people do
(21:09):
poo poo your posts or they sendyou random emails or whatever,
of course you're like oh crap, Imade somebody mad, or am I
doing the right thing?
What are people going to thinkof me?
And that whole impostersyndrome.
But as you go and doing thisand you start getting that proof
that yeah, this is actuallyhelping people, this is actually
a really cool thing that'sgoing to support people and make
(21:31):
their lives better in adifferent way, then you're like
okay, keep going, keep goingwhat the haters hate and show it
for the people who reallyappreciate what you've got to
say, one friend of ours was justtalking to me texted me not
that long ago about this theidea that actually most
entrepreneurs have what theycall portfolio career, which
(21:52):
means that there's multipleaspects of that and you can add
and you can take away andthere's always going to be
something different, which isagain goes back to that blue
ocean idea.
Liz (22:03):
This is a total tangent, but I'm going to ask it because
it's something that's verypresent of mine, for me in my
life right now.
All of this sounds so amazingand it's like I resonate with
the helper.
I resonate with this feeling ofwhen you're connecting to other
people, you're making a pact intheir lives.
You really feel it and you aremotivated by it and I feel,
(22:23):
every year I get older, mycapacity for that is fully
dependent on my energy levelsand what I'm capable of doing in
terms of taking care of myselfand having time.
This sounds like a lot of work.
Katherine (22:41):
See all these gray hairs that are coming in there,
friends.
Liz (22:45):
And I think it's important to mention this because this is
true.
I think this is one of thosethings that can limit sometimes
our musicians from going fromred ocean to blue ocean.
Mentality is that the stuffthat you just get called for,
that's your paycheck, that youkeep getting that job.
You get to a certain point inyour career.
You don't have to do the workto make that stuff happen, you
(23:06):
don't have to create it, it'sjust there, it's just a gig.
It pays you X amount of money.
You know how much it's going tomake.
Whatever, for us there's thisbig level energy that has to go
into everything you do, and ifthat energy is taken away, it
doesn't do as well.
So I think my question is andit's because I'm working on this
myself where's the balance?
(23:27):
How is your life work balanceand what do you do to decompress
and do you have any time todecompress?
Katherine (23:34):
Yes, yeah, that's a big question that I actually get
asked quite a lot of times.
In my opinion, as a portfoliocareer musician, as an
entrepreneur, even as a musician, there really is no balance.
There's never going to be atime in your life where you're
perfectly in a symbioticrelationship with the care of
personal life in your work life.
(23:54):
It's always going to be tiltedone way or another.
So I know.
For me, what I've had to figureout is where are my boundaries
of where I know what are thecaps of things that I can do?
So, for example, for my privateteaching studio, I have 16
students this year.
Four of them are graduating andso, even though I have a big
(24:16):
waiting list, I'm only going tokeep it at 12 next year.
So then I'm only teaching fourhours a day, three days a week.
So that is my cap for that.
I wish I could teach everybody,but that's not sustainable.
So keep those 12 going Forgoing out to schools and doing
sectionals teaching is one ofthe most exhausting things that
you can do for your body andsectionals.
Liz (24:38):
Oh, God, yes so much energy .
Katherine (24:40):
I love them.
It requires so much energy.
Liz (24:42):
So much energy, yeah totally so.
Katherine (24:45):
I have seven schools that I go to this semester.
The next semester is going togo way down to two schools that
I go see.
And then I'm recruiting otherflutists to this area so that
they can take on that work andso that they build our community
.
Give those other musicians theopportunity to learn these
skills.
So, and then for the onlinestuff, it takes a lot of time.
(25:09):
It takes a lot of time tocreate things.
It takes a lot of time tomarket things and you know,
especially these days, you seeall these ads that are like
create a digital product andhave a passive income, y'all
that is a bunch of things.
That is a myth.
There is no such thing aspassive income as a person who
has tried it numerous times, Iwork harder on my passive stuff
than I do on my active stuff.
(25:30):
That's a lot.
So you know, finding out whichthings you want to dedicate your
focus to.
The other thing that I do isthat I think of all of my
projects or all of my differentthings that I do in my portfolio
.
Career is like pots on a stove.
So sometimes of years, there'sgoing to be one thing that's
almost boiling over.
Right, that's the forefront ofmy attention, while the other
(25:51):
stuff's in the back burner andthen they rotate.
So you don't want to have allof your pots boiling over
because that's going to make youinsane.
So, like figuring out in yourschedule okay, when can I
dedicate the most time to thisone pursuit, Like when do I need
to focus on that and when can Ipush the other stuff in the
back?
So it comes with a lot ofplanning and a lot of
organization with the things.
(26:11):
But it's very important to planso that you don't get
overwhelmed and get intoparalysis or you don't want to
do anything.
Steph (26:18):
Yeah, yeah.
That's a very common sideeffect of overwhelm.
For me, yes, at least it's likeparalysis.
Liz (26:25):
Yeah, yeah, burnout in general, I mean it's a thing, it
is a thing for sure.
Katherine (26:30):
And I feel like that a lot of times.
Musicians especially, we runfrom each thing that's urgent to
the next thing that's urgent.
Put out the fire immediately,like what's the next thing I
absolutely have to do, insteadof focusing on the important
thing.
Yeah, is that urgent versusimportant thing?
That's always going on, so youalways have to step back and
look at what is important thatwill move me forward, not just
(26:50):
the fire that I need to put outright now.
Liz (26:52):
That's a great way to think about it, because, yeah, I feel
that shift.
I also was just talking tosomebody recently who was saying
they were just out one nightand casually talking to this
person who was the surgeon,talking about how they can never
take a break, like they cannever take time off because then
they lose their chops and thenit's like a whole balance or
whatever.
And but I'm like, do youunderstand, though, the funny,
(27:14):
like the way you're talkingabout this?
You're talking about the senseof life or death, but you're
literally talking to someonewho's working in the business of
life or death.
Like is this very funny to me?
I'm like, if surgeons can takea break and come back and still
save lives, so can we.
Katherine (27:31):
Absolutely.
Steph (27:32):
Yeah.
Katherine (27:32):
Yeah, and it's important to you too.
Steph (27:35):
Yeah, well, a lot of us just going back to your
transition from having this kindof blinders-on idea of what you
wanted to do to taking theblinders off and being a little
bit more open.
So a lot of us musicians arekind of realizing it.
The blinders are kind of beinglike ripped away, yeah, but as
orchestras, our opportunitiesare becoming fewer and further
(27:56):
between.
So the people who you coachlike let's say that you have
people coming to you that arestuck, they're unsure, they're
kind of in limbo how do youcoach them through this time of
trying to figure out what's next?
Katherine (28:10):
Yeah, and most people I talk to, that's how they come
to me.
And first of all we explorelike dream scenario, right, I
think a lot of times musiciansdon't allow themselves to dream
and we get stuck in this thingof having to do things, because
that's what the classical musicbubble says we have to do, and
if we don't do those thingswe're a failure.
Blah, blah, blah.
So first we start off withdreaming.
(28:31):
What are the things?
What do you want out of yourlife?
What do you want?
What are those values that youwant to have in your life?
What are the things that youwant to always do?
What are the things that's themost exciting for you?
And then we kind of pair thosedown into categories.
So if somebody likes to write alot, then that would go in a
category.
If somebody likes to play,which most people do, that goes
(28:52):
into a category.
If somebody likes to teach,then that would be another thing
.
If they are into numbers orbusiness, then we kind of look
and see what their interests are, the things that excite them,
because if you're not excited bysomething, you're not going to
be able to go all in and stay init, right?
So then after we do, that wetalk about okay.
Well, what is it about thosethings that excite you?
(29:14):
What you're thinking is mostlyis connecting with a person, a
young person, one-on-one andbeing a mentor to them, because
they had a mentor that wasreally really formative in their
youth For writing.
It could be that they'reintroverted, like me, and they
like that form of expressionbetter than they like talking or
teaching someone.
And then for business, a lot ofpeople will just like the
(29:35):
competitive edge and like seeinghow what they can do can impact
an organization or whatever.
So then I usually will say well, I will come up with a couple
of scenarios of different thingslike how does this sound to you
?
And either, if it's likestarting a private studio,
starting an ensemble, starting abusiness, starting this, that
(29:56):
and the other, they say, yeah,that's great, but, and then
there's usually some type ofobjection, some type of block
that gets in their way, and thenusually after that we talk
through that block.
Where is that coming from?
Is that coming from music school, where you were taught that all
you could do is play and allyou should do is practice, and
that you will be frowned upon ifyou do not go into this
direction or this direction,because if you don't look at it
(30:18):
straight in the face and reallyaccept it, that it's right there
in front of you, you cannotblow past it, like you have to
figure out where that is and ifyou're going to let it limit you
or if you're going to releaseit and then be able to pursue
the thing.
So usually that's a big part ofthis and most people when they
when they start working with mein whatever capacity, by the
(30:40):
time we're done, the biggestthing that they have gained is
confidence in themselves andknowing that they can do the
thing and that they feelcomfortable with it, because
they start off really scaredabout taking this thing and then
, by the end, really confidentand own the thing that they're
trying to create.
So there's a lot of limitingbeliefs out there for musicians
and there's a lot of things thathappen to us because I think
(31:01):
it's not addressed throughoutour education.
We are not given a taste of howto do this, how to do that, how
to do that.
It's getting better, for sure,but there's no guide, there's no
do this, this, this, this, andthat's how we've been trained as
we were kids.
Liz (31:15):
Yeah, I mean the blocks are also.
I think so much of it is likewe said before when you said,
catherine, that you had thisgrieving process you have to
also do the work of letting goof this concept that if you give
up that path, you are somehowlesser than and that your
colleagues are going to havethis attitude about you, that
(31:36):
you gave up on a thing becauseyou couldn't make it or whatever
, but I just think more and moreabout it.
I'm like but most of us are inthat boat.
Most of us haven't made it andwe're all.
So, who's fighting who?
I mean, we just had this.
We talked to somebody lastepisode that is coming out that
it's like this path we're put on, we're just our hopes get so
(31:58):
high.
I just think we all have thisidea in our head of like what
it's going to be, and then youhave to let it go and it's like,
but who's the one telling youthat you didn't make it?
Like someone else that didn'tmake it?
I don't.
It's like such a yeah, andwhat's making it earning $35,000
a year to teach at a universityor or let's just let's just say
(32:19):
you get your dream orchestrajob and you're making $100,000 a
year and then next year they'relike sorry, we're bankrupt, you
can't pay you anymore.
It's a wild thing.
I just I love all of this andso much.
You said like, ultimately, whenpeople come away from this work
that they do with you, thatthey're gaining confidence in
(32:40):
their own abilities and theirown path, and that's really
that's what everybody needs inorder to do this work.
Like it's not some magicformula of X, y and Z.
Yes, you can build skills.
Skills are important.
You have to learn the skills.
You have to know what skillsyou need in order to do the
thing you want to do.
But you have to believe that ifyou go it on your own, it's
(33:02):
going to happen and the struggledoesn't end.
You know you decide to take apath.
You're going to have rockymoments and you're going to have
moments where you're like Idon't know if this is going to
work, and then you keep at itand you keep believing in it and
it sounds so.
I swear I say this like everyfew years.
You know how, when we're kids,there's like that whole.
Just believe in yourself.
(33:22):
You know like believe inyourself and when you're a kid
you're like okay, whatever, yeah, believe in myself, but every
few years or so I take a momentand I'm understanding it on this
deeper level.
That's like belief in yourability to do things is what
allows you to do things.
Katherine (33:37):
Period.
Yeah, it's amazing.
Exactly.
It's like I tell people I usethis analogy all the time If you
go to the doctor and you haveto have brain surgery and the
doctor's like yeah, I'm reallyI'm not that confident in my
ability to do this thing and youknow, I'm kind of new at it.
I've only.
I went to medical school and Idid the stuff Like technically I
trained Like to beat impostersyndrome stuff.
(34:00):
It's like if that's how youpresent, do you want to pay that
doctor to do surgery on yourbrain and be confident in that?
Steph (34:07):
Just going back to what we were talking about, how you
know, it's really hard to pryyourself out of these ideas of
success that you have, and partof it is you've worked so hard
to hone this one aspect of yourbeing that is not your whole
being, and it's hard to realizethat that you are more than your
(34:27):
musical abilities.
You have strengths that are noteven related to that and you're
not even using them like halfthe time.
So what would happen if youtook those musician abilities
that you have but you also addedall the other things that
you're super strong at?
What would you be able to do?
I mean, we really we really doput ourselves in these narrow
little boxes, but there's a lotof different ways to use even
(34:50):
more of yourself to createhigher fulfillment and greater
success, exactly, which is why Ithink it's so important from
and I mean my poor privatestudents.
Katherine (34:58):
I make them do stuff all the time.
You know, I'm not even incollege.
I'm like okay, we're creating aconcert series, you're in
charge of programming, you're incharge of venue, you're in
charge of if we're going to askfor donations or not, you know,
and let's make some leaders wholearn how to do this stuff from
an early age.
Yes, and so I mean musicians.
(35:19):
I love medieval and renaissancemusic.
That is great and all.
But how much more powerfulwould it be if you had a project
based learning class that getsyou out in the community and
makes you have to createsomething in order to generate a
potential income or at leastdonations for yourself, so you
learn those skills.
So when you get out, you're notjust, you don't just have one
skill that you just know how toplay, but you don't know how to
(35:42):
make money for playing.
Steph (35:43):
I mean we make Girl Scouts sell cookies.
Liz (35:45):
Yes, exactly, but you know.
Steph (35:48):
That goes to show you yes , I'm a great musician, but I
also have organizational skills.
I can also manage an inventory.
I can also manage money.
Katherine (35:57):
I can do all these other things.
Liz (35:59):
But like here I am, like oh , I'm not a success because I'm
not playing full time in anorchestra, right right, you know
it's so interesting too tothink about, like both sides of
this coin where we talk about,and we know there are many
musicians who get the dream job,whether it's teaching in this
college or the orchestra, whosay that same thing to you,
(36:19):
catherine, who are just likemiserable.
And I'm wondering if a hugepiece of it is that part of what
makes us love being musiciansso much, or what draws us to
being musicians is the creativepursuit.
It's the expression of yourvoice, and the more you spend,
hammered down by whateverbureaucracy you're surrounded by
, the more limited you are, themore you feel tamped down and
(36:42):
you might not even recognizethat that's what's happening.
So on the other side of that,here we are teaching kids in a
music studio who may not even gointo music it's not important,
but we're teaching them how touse these other skills related
to their creative endeavor.
And then a musician who wantsto go in and be a professional
musician one day already isthinking about how those skills
can relate to their creativeendeavors.
(37:04):
And that is the most importantthing, because whether you're a
musician in a full-timeorchestra or not, you have the
opportunity to use these skills.
I mean you could do that evenif you have the full-time job.
If you're miserable on thefull-time job, what else can you
do?
Katherine (37:18):
Where's your blue ocean?
Right?
Like yeah and fun.
You know.
That's why I always say thatevery music student needs to go
in with a music and you knowthey need to find the blank from
the music and and the undergradis all about exploration.
Take Javanese Gamalon ensemble,you know.
Take a finance class.
(37:38):
Take things that are kind ofinteresting to you and see if
they are interesting to you andthen, when you choose your if
you go into a master's or if youdo a gap year or whatever
choose a place where you can dipyour toe into that other thing
and learn that skill too Doesn'tmean that you're not going to
get the job, but it does prepareyou for the time between you
graduate and the time you getthe job, so that you can
(38:00):
actually make money doingsomething that you like and
doing something that can pairreally well with music.
That could open a totallydifferent door for you, and you
can choose to stay down thattraditional path, for sure, but
at least you have something thatis marketable, instead of
having to go outside of the artsand outside of music to get to
the living.
Steph (38:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's very powerful.
Oh, I love it so much.
So we know that you've got allkinds of irons in the fire,
catherine.
So you have to share with usall of the new, like what you're
doing to help musicians andwhere they can find you and what
you're offering, and tell usall those things.
Katherine (38:34):
Yes, okay, absolutely so.
I'm on Instagram.
Just my name, Katherine Emeneth, and then my team member,
Natalie.
She actually just launched herkind of branch of our company,
Instagram, called the LimitlessMusician, where she's going to
talk about breaking down all ofthose limits that we talked
about earlier.
She's one of the people that Icoached several years ago and,
really great.
I love hiring people that I'veworked with and that have had
(38:56):
success, so we're there.
We're also on Facebook.
We have a group calledClassical Musicianier, which is
about musicians who engineertheir career, and we offer a
little advice and discussionstuff like that.
As far as like our onlinethings, we have several.
We have so many freebies on ourwebsite, like so many, and the
website right now isKatherineEmeneth.
com, so I have stuff on thereabout starting private studios,
(39:18):
downloads for music teacherswith things that they can use,
mindset stuff, et cetera.
And then for if folks arelooking to get involved with us
more in coaching, in a couple ofweeks we're going to open up
enrollment again for ourcoaching program, the Music
Teachers Playbook, which is forprivate music development.
For sure, it's like we hold yourhand and help youth through all
these blocks and barriers tocreate a fulfilling career
(39:41):
teaching privately.
But the cool part about it isthat the skills that you learn
in there apply to anything applyto marketing yourself as a
freelancer if you want to startan ensemble, anything and
everything, and that's whygraduates always come back to us
and say, okay, I want to dothis thing next, you know, and
are excited about being able tosee the next thing.
So those are the things that wehave coming up, and I also
(40:03):
offer free strategy calls foryou know people who are in music
school who are really unsure.
They see that ends of theirstudies coming up and they just
need a little help and a littlecoaching.
So I do that totally for free,just to like talk to people and
get to know them and provide alittle insight into their
situation, and so that's on theside as well, and we've had a
couple of new things that arebeing cooked up right now, so
(40:25):
I'm not going to share aboutthat, right now, but people can
follow us to find out more aboutthat.
Liz (40:30):
Very cool Congratulations on all these things.
I remember a classical musicianhere was like one of the first
things I think we found when wewere getting rolling with the
podcast now over three years ago, and it was just like it's so
nice to see this whole world ofentrepreneurial musicians
opening themselves up, showingthe world who they are, offering
(40:51):
their own expertise, their ownexperience, their own knowledge
and wisdom with other musicianswho are looking to pursue this
path, because I feel like themore this community expands, the
better for our industry, justin general.
So it's yeah.
Steph (41:06):
Absolutely For the perpetuation of our industry it
needs to grow not shrink Exactly.
Katherine (41:13):
Thanks for being a part of that world.
Yes, absolutely, it's beenreally, really cool.
Steph (41:17):
Thanks for making time for us today.
Thank you, Katherine.
Liz (41:22):
Thank you so much for listening today.
If you loved this episode,consider writing us a five-star
review on Apple podcasts, Amazonmusic, Spotify or wherever you
listen.
Steph (41:32):
Thanks also to our season sponsor, Potter Violins.
Liz (41:35):
If you'd like to support the podcast and get access to
bonus content, consider joiningour Patreon community.
Steph (41:41):
You can buy all your MusicianCentric merch, including
shirts, water bottles, kooziesand a variety of other fun items
.
Liz (41:49):
Our theme music was written and produced by JP.
Wogerman and is performed bySteph and Myself.
Steph (41:54):
Our episodes are produced by Liz O'Hara and edited by
Emily McMahon.
Liz (41:58):
Thanks again for listening.
Let's talk soon.
Now.
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