July 5, 2025 • 44 mins
In this episode of the Must Read Alaska Show, host Ben Carpenter sits down with Lynn McCabe and Mikaela Emswiler, of the Repeal Now initiative, to explore the close, contentious fight to roll back ranked choice voting in Alaska. Together, they share firsthand accounts of signature-gathering on the ground, the fierce lawfare tactics deployed by outside interests, and the surprising challenges volunteers face—from strict chain-of-custody rules to ensuring every signer’s information matches the voter database.
Lynn recounts the overwhelming public frustration with ranked choice voting and how just 743 votes decided Alaska’s fate last November. Michaela lays out why she sees RCV as a threat to election integrity, empowering dark-money groups and confusing everyday voters. You’ll learn:
- Why 34,000 valid signatures (across 30 of 40 legislative districts) are needed by January 20, 2026
- How to sign correctly—using the exact name on your voter registration and providing a valid voter ID number
- What pitfalls to avoid—never sharing a petition “book,” keeping it under lock and key, and notarizing when possible
- Where to get involved—volunteer opportunities, signature-gathering locations, and digital action
If you’re ready to make your voice heard, visit RepealNowAK.com, email repealnowalaska@gmail.com, or follow Repeal Now AK on Facebook and X. Every signature counts—help bring transparency back to Alaska’s elections.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Let's roll. Hello and welcome to the Must Read Alaska show. Here you get relevant and timely content you won't find anywhere else. You can learn more by going to mustreadalaska.com and this show can be found on YouTube, Facebook X and your favorite podcast site.
(00:27):
Let's talk truth about politics, the economy, and all things Alaska. Now the host of the show, former state legislator, combat veteran, small business owner, and all around great guy, Ben Carpenter.
(00:54):
Okay, welcome to the Must Read Alaska show, friends. I'm Ben Carpenter, your host and guide on a journey of discovery of truth and independent-minded thinking. Must Read Alaska exists because discovering the truth is hard. It calls upon us to be relentless in our defense of common sense, our faith in God, and the exceptional values enshrined in our Constitution. Freedom is not free. It's not for the timid. It was not secured by the weak of heart or mind.
(01:17):
Maintaining freedom requires every one of us to be alert to daily encroachments on our liberties and on the grand deceptions of those seeking power and control over others. Every generation must continually pledge their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor, and we must never take our freedom for granted. We are not anti-government. We are pro-government, of the people, by the people, and for the people.
(01:40):
And today on today's show, we have two special guests with us, Lynn McCabe and Michaela Innsweiler. We are going to talk about what's going on with the repealing of ranked choice voting. Welcome to the show, both of you. Thank you. So just for just for people who have not been paying attention, per se, Lynn, you want to tell us what repeal now is?
(02:07):
Repeal Now is a ballot initiative, which is actually an independent expenditure group that was formed to get the repeal of ranked choice voting back on the ballot again. We were not successful last November. We lost by under 1% in the final tally, and we are ready to roll and get this going again and have a chance for all Alaskans to have a say in
(02:33):
Whether or not they want to keep ranked choice voting. It was a close election. I think it was like 700 votes, was it not? Somewhere around there? The number I have is 743, but I don't know if that's the actual number or not. For a statewide election, that's a pretty close election. Yes. Well, Lynn, why are you supporting repeal now? What's your story here? What's your take on this?
(02:58):
Well, I was involved in the last effort. And I talked to hundreds of Alaskans in my process of collecting signatures from them. And I heard overwhelmingly how difficult it was to use it. And they were frustrated, frankly, that the advertising had said we were getting rid of dark money. And they were furious when they found out they'd been hoodwinked into believing that and voting for the initiative. And once they used it, they were totally
(03:29):
Just so annoyed they were tripping over themselves to get to our tables. It was actually very fun to work the last round of collection of signatures because people were paying to get into our events just so they could sign. And I feel like after listening to all those people talk about their issues with rank choice voting,
(03:51):
I feel like I became their voice. I got subpoenaed to go to court and that really ticked me off. I felt like, why am I wasting all my time doing this? And so when we lost by such a small number and it was greatly influenced by outside money, I decided I was going to be all in to work on giving us another opportunity to get rid of it. Michaela, your story might be similar, but why are you supporting repeal now?
(04:21):
Yeah, well, I believe ranked choice voting is an emerging threat to our republic, and it's a political weapon. You know, it's a confusing, complicated system. It gives greater control to dark money, and it's left entire rural communities like...
Welcome to my lecture.
(05:00):
And, you know, the jungle primary makes it even worse. We've seen unvetted candidates like the New York felon that was serving the 20-year sentence. From the last election, right? Yeah, last election. He'd never set foot in Alaska. He has no ties here, and yet he made it on our ballot. And we've seen California actresses who changed their names, rent out an Airbnb in Juneau.
(05:28):
And they're heavily funded by outside money. And so they're unvetted folks that are very disingenuous. It's dangerous. I do believe that ranked choice voting makes our elections more vulnerable to tampering and exploitation. And so when it comes to election integrity, it matters. I care a lot about that.
(05:53):
And we have to ensure that our elections are free from manipulation and truly reflect the will of the people. The other thing that, the other reason why I feel so strongly about this is, and maybe one of the most troubling consequences of ranked choice voting is the tendency to disenfranchise voters and suppress the vote.
(06:20):
We need a voting system that truly empowers citizens where voters are confident that their voice is heard and their votes are counted. It's just essential that we return to the simple and straightforward process and trust in our democracy. And I would say the last thing would be the dark money influence.
(06:43):
You know, we're not just fighting a voting system. We're battling these outside dark money interest groups that benefit from protecting ranked choice voting. And so these entities have a vested interest in keeping the complicated system that could be manipulated for their gains. So we have to push back against these influences and ensure that our elections remain in the hands of Alaskans. I believe the last election
(07:12):
The opposition raised about $15 million. And I was curious. Go ahead. No, I was just going to ask, give a comparison. What would the in-state residents who are trying to repeal this, what did they...
I believe overall between the signature gathering and the Yes on 2 campaign portion of it, it was right around $350,000 total. But a lot of that was tied up with the lawfare because the opposition was really...
(07:52):
They saw the grassroots momentum and they saw how people were very emphatic about getting rid of the system, that they tried everything to stop it in their power. I was curious. Go ahead. I was really curious how much the opposition had raised in-state. And so I went down that rabbit trail and looked at their APOC reports to see...
(08:21):
Welcome to my lecture.
(08:44):
Why do these special interest groups, why do these people that have no ties to Alaska so vested in changing our election system?
Doesn't that seem a little fishy? Yeah, well, I mean, it's fishy until you realize that there are groups in many other states trying to implement ranked choice voting. That's right. And Alaska's a cheap date. Like, you got 700,000 people, total population, which is the size of cities in other states, and the dollars that can be spent to influence those 700,000 people. And I say 700,000, that's not 700,000 voters. That's total population. Right. Much fewer voters.
(09:26):
Point being is that it's a cheap date. You've got a bigger bang for your buck if you're going to spend money somewhere to influence people. It's actually a nationwide effort. They want to turn the whole country blue. And I've heard that the next step is doing away with the electoral college. It's all part of a scheme. And Alaska has, even though we only have three states,
(09:54):
Thank you.
Yeah, that's right. And as we've seen with this big, beautiful bill that got passed, it came down to a tie-breaking vote in the Senate. So yeah, that's absolutely the case. We're going to dive in just a little bit to some of the lawfare and what has happened this last go-around. And that'll kind of nail it home for people as to why these next couple topics are important. But if you're collecting signatures, what is it that you need to keep in mind?
(10:35):
With regard to doing it properly and not shooting ourselves in the foot like maybe we did a little bit last time. So my experience is that after being subpoenaed to go to court,
The issues that they found are people sharing books, which is a no-no. When you sign up for a book, you are 100% responsible to ensure that that book is in your possession and that you are observing all of the signature gathering. It cannot be your spouse or a friend or anybody. And if you leave the table where the book is, you take it with you or put it away. You do not leave it laying out. The other things to keep in mind are
(11:21):
We are going to be verifying everybody's signature against the voter database. So we need their accurate information, their address and complete address. If you leave part of the address blank, then the Division of Elections will toss that signature out.
So we have to be very cognizant of that. And before they ever get a book, they have to sign an agreement. So they go online, there's a online form that they click through with their answers to the questions to agree to certain rules for collecting signatures.
(11:57):
And then once they get the book from their regional coordinator or the Anchorage office, then they also get a copy of what they signed online in hard copy to refresh their memory because some of us are not, you know, we're not young spring chickens anymore and we might forget what we signed up for. So we need that reminder. So...
(12:19):
And then once they finish the book they have to check it back in we we discovered through our last effort that you can't be loosey goosey with your books you have to be responsible with them and keep track of which books are signed out and, you know, keep the
What do they call it in chain of custody? You have to keep it all organized and be responsible so that you don't end up with a mess on your hands that can be challenged because there will be challenges. They don't want us to get this on the ballot. They fought tooth and nail last time through, I believe it was three APOC filings against the initiative group.
(13:04):
And the lawsuit, which was taken all the way to the Supreme Court. So they don't want us to get it on the ballot. Again, yeah. So if you're somebody that's like a voter and you're approached by somebody that's got a book and says, hey, do you want to sign my booklet? Do you want to repeal ranked choice voting? And you're inclined to do so, what do you need to know when you're signing that book? You need to know...
(13:35):
Well, you want to be sure that you're looking to make sure that it's the legitimate group that's doing it because sometimes they will, they haven't done it yet that I'm aware of, but sometimes they will try to confuse people by having a different book for you to sign.
you know they they're they're devious they videotaped volunteers they spied on us i heard that they actually had paid spies infiltrate the group i wasn't part of that but they did come to our booth at the fair and take photos and videotape our our um volunteers that were working there and keep in mind this is an all-volunteer effort
(14:19):
The only person who is paid is the person that files the APOC reports. The rest of us are all volunteers.
When I sign the document, my name is Benjamin. I have a middle name, Earl. I usually just use Ben. But when I'm signing this particular document, what do I need to sign as? Like, if I look at my driver's license, it says my full formal name. Is that what I need to use? Or do I need to look at my voter registration? Or what is the official...
(14:53):
I'm not actually sure that they verify that you're not using a shortened version of your real name. If you have your driver's license number or your voter ID number and you sign it, you put in there Ben Carpenter instead of Benjamin Carpenter. I'm not sure that they would toss that.
(15:16):
Sorry, I was going to add to what Lynn is saying. I can speak to that. Anyone signing must be a registered Alaskan voter, and they need to sign the petition in the presence of the authorized circulator, as Lynn said. But they'll need to fill in their information exactly as it appears on their voter registration.
(15:41):
Welcome to my lecture.
Inside, there is a spot for your voter identification, your voter ID, your numerical identifier. So that could be your birthday, it could be the last four numbers of your social security, or it could be your driver's license number.
(16:18):
A lot of times, you know, people will make the mistake of filling out the day's date. That happened to me this morning, and I had to go back in later when I caught it. I had to go back in to the business I was at and had the person correct it. Another thing that we've seen is people mistakenly put down their phone numbers.
(16:42):
Instead of their ID number. So those are some very simple things, but you have to be accurate. But yes, your name needs to appear like it is on your voter registration card.
Okay. Well, I don't carry my voter registration card in my wallet. So I suppose that that presents a large problem for some part of the population that does the same thing if you don't know or you've moved a lot or whatever. So I guess if you're going to sign something and you know that it's voting related, then you better know what your voter registration card says. Interesting that it would be important because most people are like, yeah, what do I need my voter registration card for?
(17:25):
So your legal name. Yes. Some, some people go by nicknames. We've had that before where like a kit would be a Catherine, but they have to use their legal name. Well, that's, I mean, and that's the thing I go by Ben and Benjamin is my legal name. I wonder if I've signed, signed petitions before that gets thrown out because I didn't put my full name on there.
(17:49):
Yeah, that's water under the bridge for me. But so I think we've talked a little bit about why that's important to meet the requirements because somebody's going to challenge, somebody may challenge the legitimacy of the signatures. What did we find last time, Michaela? How did, what was your personal experience here on how things were challenged?
(18:12):
You know, I will say in Alaska, the Constitution protects the citizen initiative process, right? But opposition groups absolutely try to interfere. So we saw a lot of different things, but these groups will spread misinformation about what the petition does. They try to intimidate.
(18:37):
The circulators and the folks that carry the petitions, and they do watch for technical mistakes that might get their books thrown out. As Lynn had mentioned, sometimes a husband and wife would share a book last time, and that's a big no-no. Everybody has to have their own book that's assigned to them.
(19:01):
You cannot share books because Lynn is right. There's the opposition is everywhere and they're watching very, very closely to see if someone will make a mistake and they will go over the books. They analyzed last last time they brought in a forensic auditor to look at.
Welcome to my lecture.
(19:41):
Welcome to my lecture.
Welcome to my lecture.
(20:17):
And so this one lady, one of our volunteers came in into court and she was able to testify. Nope, that's my signature. You know, I used to be a professor. I'm in my 80s. I've got shaky handwriting, but I did every single one of these books.
And so, and she, I think she had like 10 or 12 different books that she did, but that's, those are things that they look for is if you've done multiple books to make sure that you're not just taking a book that someone forgot to have notarized and signing your name to it, because a lot of our volunteers came under scrutiny. And of course they were able to be honest and those books were able to stay in.
(21:06):
But yeah, having the, there was one of our biggest issues that we had was here in Anchorage, one of our notaries mistakenly had her notary expire.
So she had signed, she had notarized 81 books from our Anchorage volunteers, 81 books. And so the opposition wanted to throw every single one of those books out. It was a simple mistake. Division of Elections allowed the volunteers to take the book, they released the books back to the volunteers to have them correct it because there's a 60-day window where if there's something wrong on the back, you know,
(21:50):
Welcome to my lecture.
(22:15):
That's their voice and every single voice counts, right? It's very important. But yes, we saw other books that were left. If a business, for example, had a book on their counter and they left to use the bathroom or they left to go help a customer, right?
(22:36):
And weren't there actually witnessing the signing of a person filling in the or signing the petition? They also got reprimanded and taken to court as well because they said, you cannot leave your books unattended. They have to be in your possession, and you have to be able to witness every single signature in those books.
(23:06):
Lynn, what was your... Yeah, go ahead, Lynn. I got called into court because I had gotten 370 some signatures in one day. And it was at an event. It was probably a three or four hour window where I was working the event.
And they thought there was no way possible I could have gotten that many signatures in that amount of time. But people were falling all over themselves trying to get to us. I mean, it was crazy how many people were lined up waiting to sign our books. The other thing that they took issue with from a lot of our books, because we worked at the state fair and we didn't get done until 10 o'clock at night, they took issue with the fact that we had self-certified our books instead of having them notarized.
(23:54):
There was nobody around the fairground and they were turning in their books to me so I could turn them into the guy that was coordinating the whole effort, Phil Izon. So we didn't take them to a notary because that would have meant me driving all the way back in there to get them, you know, the next day or two days later. So we signed them and, but now this time we are not, we are notarizing every book or getting every book notarized, not doing it ourselves.
(24:24):
Well, it's interesting. I know that there's a lot of effort from the opposition to prevent this from happening. They can't prevent the process, right? They can't prevent signatures from being collected. But it sounds like what they can do is just, you know, keep you as honest as you have to be, like letter of the law honest, right?
(24:52):
So that puts a great burden upon, you know, my personality is I'm a stickler for details. I am a perfectionist.
That isn't the way for all people. Some people are like, yeah, what does it really matter? Some of the details. But in this instance, the details do matter because there is somebody watching and somebody is going to make a big deal of it. And all of the effort that we have gone to in collecting signatures or signing and sharing our voice may be for naught if we do not
(25:28):
Welcome to my lecture.
That is accurate. And again, they went overboard. You are allowed to self-certify your books if you're not able to get to a notary. That's fine. This also went to court. As I said, the opposition tried everything in their power to stop it, even if it wasn't...
(26:05):
Welcome to my lecture.
(26:33):
us volunteers to say, look, we did this correctly, we did this right, and we had to fight for that to prove that their accusations were false or not relevant. Wow, that's unfortunate. Linda, do you have something you want to add? No, I'm good. Okay.
(26:57):
I was going to reinforce what Lynn said. You know, we met so many everyday Alaskans who are frustrated and ready to fix our elections and folks that saw firsthand how challenging the system could be. And, you know, we really had to be diligent out there because there was a lot of misinformation out there. Some of the people, again, tried to
(27:21):
Welcome to my lecture.
(27:42):
Welcome to my lecture.
(28:11):
Yeah, that's I remember hearing that and very frustrated as a veteran myself. I'm like, that is not accurate. It is not even remotely accurate. But somebody who's halfway around the world doing their job and is not, you know, super tied in with what's what's happening back here in the state might just take that little soundbite and run with it, which is really frustrating. Yeah.
(28:34):
So we're engaging this process to repeal. What's next? Where are we at in the process for repealing? We're collecting signatures. When do we have to have signatures collected by? So January 20th is when the legislature goes back into session. We have to have everything all put together and turned into division of elections before that date.
(29:02):
So our next deadline is the end of this month. We want all of the books that are currently distributed, which is about 300 books. We want the petition gather, the signature gatherers to have their books completed and turned in by the end of the month so that they can be input and we can figure out where we're at so that we'll have time to do what we need to do to fill in the gaps.
(29:31):
And we're hoping to have them all completed by the time snow flies, hopefully the end of September, but you know, it may be a little bit longer than that, but we're shooting for the end of September to have all the signatures turned back in. And we are actually shooting past the goal, which is, you know, it's
(29:52):
We're shooting around 34,000 signatures. We're shooting for more than that because we know that they won't all get counted. There will be issues with some of them. So we're trying to overshoot the target. And it's a little bit harder this time than it was last time because there was a little bit of voter fatigue and people think, well, I already signed the petition. They don't realize that it failed last November.
(30:19):
They're very uninformed about what has happened. They thought it passed and that we were done with it. So they think that they already signed it and you have to ask them questions like, well, when did you sign it to get to the
The crux of the question about whether they should sign it right now or not. Well, let's talk about that for a second. What happens if you sign it twice? And through no malicious intent, you just forgot that you signed it this year. So if you sign it once in July and you sign it again in August, what happens?
(30:55):
Well, if you knowingly signed it more than once and you had some kind of an agenda, then of course you're in trouble. But if like I had an elderly gentleman come to my table the other day at an event and he couldn't remember if he had signed it,
So I was asking him all kinds of pointed questions about it and we finally got down to a specific person that I knew had been in that particular area and I said, was it so-and-so who collected your signature and the light bulb came on and he remembered so he didn't sign it. But, you know, that's an honest mistake that people are going to make because we are living in a fast-paced world and some of the people that are signing our initiative are not, you know, they're not...
(31:41):
25 years old and they're
They're capable of making a decision, but they need time to think about it. This is a long process. We have one year to collect signatures and we're about halfway through that right now. Some people do forget if they had signed or when they had signed. Duplicates will get nixed when they start verifying the names. They will not count.
(32:12):
So they don't take one of the names and throw them out and leave the other? They throw both names out if there's a duplicate? No, they will keep one, but they throw out the duplicate. Okay. I saw some people that had signed maybe three or four times because they had no idea that they only needed to sign once. So, of course, it's just their one entry counts and the rest don't.
(32:40):
Got it. It does make it hard for knowing how many votes or how many signatures you need to get still if you're just counting signatures and somebody is signing two or three times because obviously those second and third times won't count. That's correct.
(33:09):
Welcome to my lecture.
(33:38):
Seven percent.
So each district has a different number, but you only have to get 30 out of the 40 districts. So there's a statewide number that we have to hit in order for this to be valid, but there's also a district number that we also have to achieve as well. So this is a statewide issue. We need boots on the ground in every part of our state. Yeah.
(34:10):
Well, that brings us to a great question then. If there are people that are listening to this and they're saying, hey, you know what, this is something that I could get behind, how do they get in touch with somebody to help out with this? They can send an email to repealnowalaska at gmail.com.
RepealNowAlaska at gmail.com. Perfect. And I'll go ahead and flash that up on the recording when we do the post-processing here so people can see the email address as well. There's also a website, RepealNowAK.com.
(34:46):
Thank you.
Well, I appreciate that. I think it's an important thing that we need to keep pushing for. I sure appreciate both of the sacrifice both of you have put into this, both in the past and what you continue doing. Do you happen to know, do we happen to know so far how many signatures we've got? Or are we not knowing until the end of the month?
(35:24):
We do not know. We have about 300 books that are circulating or actually some of those have been turned in, but we don't have a tally and we likely won't have one until after the end of July when we get all the books, hopefully get the majority of the books back and can see where we are at. Okay.
(35:48):
Well, I sure appreciate you guys participating today. And I think this has been great information for people to know, both those that are wanting to know where we're at with Ranked Choice Voting, those who are collecting books or thinking or wanting to help collect books. Now you know where you can go and what are some of the important things that you need to keep in mind if you're going to do that. And for those that are signing books, make sure you know what your name is.
(36:15):
Your official name and your official address, because that matters. Can I say one thing? Yeah, Lynn, go ahead. So like I said, it's a little bit harder this time to get signatures. We're having to work a little bit harder at it than we did last time. And we are coming down to a point where our person who's doing a lot of the organizing in town has been talking to paid
(36:43):
I'm going to be talking about signature collecting outfits out of state. We don't have any in state. And if we cannot accomplish this with our volunteers, it's going to be a big chunk of money, like in the neighborhood of $250,000 or something like that to pay for the remainder of what is needed once we get all the volunteer
(37:10):
I'm going to turn back in and see where we're at. There are some locations in the state that are harder to get, and we may have to pay somebody to go get those anyway. But they wanted me to drive home the point that we can use all the help that we can get from anybody who has any time to volunteer to put toward this effort. We hear constantly from people about how they hate ranked choice voting.
(37:37):
And we need those people with those sentiments to put their feet on the ground and come join us in this effort. We cannot do it alone. We need your help.
And if you are not able to collect signatures, please at least get out there and sign it and get your neighbors and your friends and family members to make an effort to get to a place where they can sign. And there are some static places. We have businesses. I know in the Valley, I'm the region coordinator for this area. And we have three businesses that have
(38:12):
Welcome to my lecture.
(38:41):
Lynn, that's really key information. Is the website address that you gave out someplace someone can go to find out where, which businesses in their area that they can go visit? I do not believe they are posted on the website, but if they put in a message to, you know, using the messenger in the website or using that Gmail address,
(39:10):
Somebody will give the information to them or they can follow us on Facebook. We have Repeal Now AK on Facebook and we have Repeal Now AK on X. And we post regularly when we are going to be holding events. And oftentimes we will add a little note that says which local businesses are also available for people to go sign.
(39:37):
We'd like to have it on the website, but like I said, this is an all-volunteer effort, including the design and maintenance of the website and all of it. So if there's somebody out there who's interested in using their expertise to help us out, I'm sure that the people in town would be happy to talk to them about them volunteering their time to fulfill that particular need.
(40:03):
If you've got the website pulled up there, Lynn, and I know you're probably familiar with it, but if somebody can't physically help, but they can help financially, are you set up to accept funds yet? Absolutely. And thank you for bringing that up. That is a huge need.
No donation is too small. We need Alaskans to donate. I know that the local gal in Anchorage is talking to out-of-state entities because the beautiful thing about dark money is we're not disallowed from trying to obtain it on our side of the...
(40:41):
The equation also so we are talking to some entities in the lower 48 that can potentially funnel money to the effort and help us out.
And we'll need that money. If we have to hire signature collectors, that is that much less money we'll be able to put toward digital ads and radio ads and whatnot during the campaign in the fall of 2026. We need to spend our money wisely. So we need help to ensure that we get our, you know, the most bang for the bucks that we do have by having volunteers step up and help us with the effort.
(41:24):
Very good. Well, I think we're reaching our time here discussing this topic. Will you please give out the email address one more time and the address to the website so that people will have it? Sure. It's repealnowalaska at gmail.com. Alaska is spelled out. And then the website is repealnowak.com, not spelled out. repealnowak.com.
(41:54):
And look for us on Facebook and X. Follow and share all of the posts. Comment on them. You'll affect the algorithm. And even if you cannot help us collect signatures, you can help us get the word out by sharing what we post so that more people see it. Yeah, this is a rallying cry for all of us.
(42:15):
You know, we've got the power to bring transparency back into our elections. Every voice counts. So we need all the help that we can get. And we need the momentum. We're building the momentum. We, the people, are getting our state back. And it's been fun. We're moving fast. And we need all the help that we can get.
(42:41):
Thank you for having me.
(43:04):
If we don't, it just doesn't work. It doesn't work real well when there's not more voice and more effort helping. You know, it's the whole adage of many hands make light a task, right? I have an adage, too, that I'd like to share. Go right ahead. So my adage is we get the government we deserve. If we don't make the effort, we get what we get. That's right. That's exactly right.
(43:34):
Well said. You put in the effort for self-government and you get something that you deserve. That's right. If you don't put in the effort, you still get what you deserve. That's right. That's good.
All right, ladies, thank you so much for spending some time with me today. I sure appreciate it. If you like what you heard on this podcast and you want to help support the effort of getting more podcasts out and more information like this out, please go to mustreadalaska.com, click on the donate link, and help us keep the lights on and keep moving forward with this message. This is Ben Carpenter signing off from Must Read Alaska. Stay frosty, Alaska.
Let's roll. Hello and welcome to the Must Read Alaska show. Here you get relevant and timely content you won't find anywhere else. You can learn more by going to mustreadalaska.com and this show can be found on YouTube, Facebook X and your favorite podcast site.
(00:27):
Let's talk truth about politics, the economy, and all things Alaska. Now the host of the show, former state legislator, combat veteran, small business owner, and all around great guy, Ben Carpenter.
(00:54):
Okay, welcome to the Must Read Alaska show, friends. I'm Ben Carpenter, your host and guide on a journey of discovery of truth and independent-minded thinking. Must Read Alaska exists because discovering the truth is hard. It calls upon us to be relentless in our defense of common sense, our faith in God, and the exceptional values enshrined in our Constitution. Freedom is not free. It's not for the timid. It was not secured by the weak of heart or mind.
(01:17):
Maintaining freedom requires every one of us to be alert to daily encroachments on our liberties and on the grand deceptions of those seeking power and control over others. Every generation must continually pledge their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor, and we must never take our freedom for granted. We are not anti-government. We are pro-government, of the people, by the people, and for the people.
(01:40):
And today on today's show, we have two special guests with us, Lynn McCabe and Michaela Innsweiler. We are going to talk about what's going on with the repealing of ranked choice voting. Welcome to the show, both of you. Thank you. So just for just for people who have not been paying attention, per se, Lynn, you want to tell us what repeal now is?
(02:07):
Repeal Now is a ballot initiative, which is actually an independent expenditure group that was formed to get the repeal of ranked choice voting back on the ballot again. We were not successful last November. We lost by under 1% in the final tally, and we are ready to roll and get this going again and have a chance for all Alaskans to have a say in
(02:33):
Whether or not they want to keep ranked choice voting. It was a close election. I think it was like 700 votes, was it not? Somewhere around there? The number I have is 743, but I don't know if that's the actual number or not. For a statewide election, that's a pretty close election. Yes. Well, Lynn, why are you supporting repeal now? What's your story here? What's your take on this?
(02:58):
Well, I was involved in the last effort. And I talked to hundreds of Alaskans in my process of collecting signatures from them. And I heard overwhelmingly how difficult it was to use it. And they were frustrated, frankly, that the advertising had said we were getting rid of dark money. And they were furious when they found out they'd been hoodwinked into believing that and voting for the initiative. And once they used it, they were totally
(03:29):
Just so annoyed they were tripping over themselves to get to our tables. It was actually very fun to work the last round of collection of signatures because people were paying to get into our events just so they could sign. And I feel like after listening to all those people talk about their issues with rank choice voting,
(03:51):
I feel like I became their voice. I got subpoenaed to go to court and that really ticked me off. I felt like, why am I wasting all my time doing this? And so when we lost by such a small number and it was greatly influenced by outside money, I decided I was going to be all in to work on giving us another opportunity to get rid of it. Michaela, your story might be similar, but why are you supporting repeal now?
(04:21):
Yeah, well, I believe ranked choice voting is an emerging threat to our republic, and it's a political weapon. You know, it's a confusing, complicated system. It gives greater control to dark money, and it's left entire rural communities like...
Welcome to my lecture.
(05:00):
And, you know, the jungle primary makes it even worse. We've seen unvetted candidates like the New York felon that was serving the 20-year sentence. From the last election, right? Yeah, last election. He'd never set foot in Alaska. He has no ties here, and yet he made it on our ballot. And we've seen California actresses who changed their names, rent out an Airbnb in Juneau.
(05:28):
And they're heavily funded by outside money. And so they're unvetted folks that are very disingenuous. It's dangerous. I do believe that ranked choice voting makes our elections more vulnerable to tampering and exploitation. And so when it comes to election integrity, it matters. I care a lot about that.
(05:53):
And we have to ensure that our elections are free from manipulation and truly reflect the will of the people. The other thing that, the other reason why I feel so strongly about this is, and maybe one of the most troubling consequences of ranked choice voting is the tendency to disenfranchise voters and suppress the vote.
(06:20):
We need a voting system that truly empowers citizens where voters are confident that their voice is heard and their votes are counted. It's just essential that we return to the simple and straightforward process and trust in our democracy. And I would say the last thing would be the dark money influence.
(06:43):
You know, we're not just fighting a voting system. We're battling these outside dark money interest groups that benefit from protecting ranked choice voting. And so these entities have a vested interest in keeping the complicated system that could be manipulated for their gains. So we have to push back against these influences and ensure that our elections remain in the hands of Alaskans. I believe the last election
(07:12):
The opposition raised about $15 million. And I was curious. Go ahead. No, I was just going to ask, give a comparison. What would the in-state residents who are trying to repeal this, what did they...
I believe overall between the signature gathering and the Yes on 2 campaign portion of it, it was right around $350,000 total. But a lot of that was tied up with the lawfare because the opposition was really...
(07:52):
They saw the grassroots momentum and they saw how people were very emphatic about getting rid of the system, that they tried everything to stop it in their power. I was curious. Go ahead. I was really curious how much the opposition had raised in-state. And so I went down that rabbit trail and looked at their APOC reports to see...
(08:21):
Welcome to my lecture.
(08:44):
Why do these special interest groups, why do these people that have no ties to Alaska so vested in changing our election system?
Doesn't that seem a little fishy? Yeah, well, I mean, it's fishy until you realize that there are groups in many other states trying to implement ranked choice voting. That's right. And Alaska's a cheap date. Like, you got 700,000 people, total population, which is the size of cities in other states, and the dollars that can be spent to influence those 700,000 people. And I say 700,000, that's not 700,000 voters. That's total population. Right. Much fewer voters.
(09:26):
Point being is that it's a cheap date. You've got a bigger bang for your buck if you're going to spend money somewhere to influence people. It's actually a nationwide effort. They want to turn the whole country blue. And I've heard that the next step is doing away with the electoral college. It's all part of a scheme. And Alaska has, even though we only have three states,
(09:54):
Thank you.
Yeah, that's right. And as we've seen with this big, beautiful bill that got passed, it came down to a tie-breaking vote in the Senate. So yeah, that's absolutely the case. We're going to dive in just a little bit to some of the lawfare and what has happened this last go-around. And that'll kind of nail it home for people as to why these next couple topics are important. But if you're collecting signatures, what is it that you need to keep in mind?
(10:35):
With regard to doing it properly and not shooting ourselves in the foot like maybe we did a little bit last time. So my experience is that after being subpoenaed to go to court,
The issues that they found are people sharing books, which is a no-no. When you sign up for a book, you are 100% responsible to ensure that that book is in your possession and that you are observing all of the signature gathering. It cannot be your spouse or a friend or anybody. And if you leave the table where the book is, you take it with you or put it away. You do not leave it laying out. The other things to keep in mind are
(11:21):
We are going to be verifying everybody's signature against the voter database. So we need their accurate information, their address and complete address. If you leave part of the address blank, then the Division of Elections will toss that signature out.
So we have to be very cognizant of that. And before they ever get a book, they have to sign an agreement. So they go online, there's a online form that they click through with their answers to the questions to agree to certain rules for collecting signatures.
(11:57):
And then once they get the book from their regional coordinator or the Anchorage office, then they also get a copy of what they signed online in hard copy to refresh their memory because some of us are not, you know, we're not young spring chickens anymore and we might forget what we signed up for. So we need that reminder. So...
(12:19):
And then once they finish the book they have to check it back in we we discovered through our last effort that you can't be loosey goosey with your books you have to be responsible with them and keep track of which books are signed out and, you know, keep the
What do they call it in chain of custody? You have to keep it all organized and be responsible so that you don't end up with a mess on your hands that can be challenged because there will be challenges. They don't want us to get this on the ballot. They fought tooth and nail last time through, I believe it was three APOC filings against the initiative group.
(13:04):
And the lawsuit, which was taken all the way to the Supreme Court. So they don't want us to get it on the ballot. Again, yeah. So if you're somebody that's like a voter and you're approached by somebody that's got a book and says, hey, do you want to sign my booklet? Do you want to repeal ranked choice voting? And you're inclined to do so, what do you need to know when you're signing that book? You need to know...
(13:35):
Well, you want to be sure that you're looking to make sure that it's the legitimate group that's doing it because sometimes they will, they haven't done it yet that I'm aware of, but sometimes they will try to confuse people by having a different book for you to sign.
you know they they're they're devious they videotaped volunteers they spied on us i heard that they actually had paid spies infiltrate the group i wasn't part of that but they did come to our booth at the fair and take photos and videotape our our um volunteers that were working there and keep in mind this is an all-volunteer effort
(14:19):
The only person who is paid is the person that files the APOC reports. The rest of us are all volunteers.
When I sign the document, my name is Benjamin. I have a middle name, Earl. I usually just use Ben. But when I'm signing this particular document, what do I need to sign as? Like, if I look at my driver's license, it says my full formal name. Is that what I need to use? Or do I need to look at my voter registration? Or what is the official...
(14:53):
I'm not actually sure that they verify that you're not using a shortened version of your real name. If you have your driver's license number or your voter ID number and you sign it, you put in there Ben Carpenter instead of Benjamin Carpenter. I'm not sure that they would toss that.
(15:16):
Sorry, I was going to add to what Lynn is saying. I can speak to that. Anyone signing must be a registered Alaskan voter, and they need to sign the petition in the presence of the authorized circulator, as Lynn said. But they'll need to fill in their information exactly as it appears on their voter registration.
(15:41):
Welcome to my lecture.
Inside, there is a spot for your voter identification, your voter ID, your numerical identifier. So that could be your birthday, it could be the last four numbers of your social security, or it could be your driver's license number.
(16:18):
A lot of times, you know, people will make the mistake of filling out the day's date. That happened to me this morning, and I had to go back in later when I caught it. I had to go back in to the business I was at and had the person correct it. Another thing that we've seen is people mistakenly put down their phone numbers.
(16:42):
Instead of their ID number. So those are some very simple things, but you have to be accurate. But yes, your name needs to appear like it is on your voter registration card.
Okay. Well, I don't carry my voter registration card in my wallet. So I suppose that that presents a large problem for some part of the population that does the same thing if you don't know or you've moved a lot or whatever. So I guess if you're going to sign something and you know that it's voting related, then you better know what your voter registration card says. Interesting that it would be important because most people are like, yeah, what do I need my voter registration card for?
(17:25):
So your legal name. Yes. Some, some people go by nicknames. We've had that before where like a kit would be a Catherine, but they have to use their legal name. Well, that's, I mean, and that's the thing I go by Ben and Benjamin is my legal name. I wonder if I've signed, signed petitions before that gets thrown out because I didn't put my full name on there.
(17:49):
Yeah, that's water under the bridge for me. But so I think we've talked a little bit about why that's important to meet the requirements because somebody's going to challenge, somebody may challenge the legitimacy of the signatures. What did we find last time, Michaela? How did, what was your personal experience here on how things were challenged?
(18:12):
You know, I will say in Alaska, the Constitution protects the citizen initiative process, right? But opposition groups absolutely try to interfere. So we saw a lot of different things, but these groups will spread misinformation about what the petition does. They try to intimidate.
(18:37):
The circulators and the folks that carry the petitions, and they do watch for technical mistakes that might get their books thrown out. As Lynn had mentioned, sometimes a husband and wife would share a book last time, and that's a big no-no. Everybody has to have their own book that's assigned to them.
(19:01):
You cannot share books because Lynn is right. There's the opposition is everywhere and they're watching very, very closely to see if someone will make a mistake and they will go over the books. They analyzed last last time they brought in a forensic auditor to look at.
Welcome to my lecture.
(19:41):
Welcome to my lecture.
Welcome to my lecture.
(20:17):
And so this one lady, one of our volunteers came in into court and she was able to testify. Nope, that's my signature. You know, I used to be a professor. I'm in my 80s. I've got shaky handwriting, but I did every single one of these books.
And so, and she, I think she had like 10 or 12 different books that she did, but that's, those are things that they look for is if you've done multiple books to make sure that you're not just taking a book that someone forgot to have notarized and signing your name to it, because a lot of our volunteers came under scrutiny. And of course they were able to be honest and those books were able to stay in.
(21:06):
But yeah, having the, there was one of our biggest issues that we had was here in Anchorage, one of our notaries mistakenly had her notary expire.
So she had signed, she had notarized 81 books from our Anchorage volunteers, 81 books. And so the opposition wanted to throw every single one of those books out. It was a simple mistake. Division of Elections allowed the volunteers to take the book, they released the books back to the volunteers to have them correct it because there's a 60-day window where if there's something wrong on the back, you know,
(21:50):
Welcome to my lecture.
(22:15):
That's their voice and every single voice counts, right? It's very important. But yes, we saw other books that were left. If a business, for example, had a book on their counter and they left to use the bathroom or they left to go help a customer, right?
(22:36):
And weren't there actually witnessing the signing of a person filling in the or signing the petition? They also got reprimanded and taken to court as well because they said, you cannot leave your books unattended. They have to be in your possession, and you have to be able to witness every single signature in those books.
(23:06):
Lynn, what was your... Yeah, go ahead, Lynn. I got called into court because I had gotten 370 some signatures in one day. And it was at an event. It was probably a three or four hour window where I was working the event.
And they thought there was no way possible I could have gotten that many signatures in that amount of time. But people were falling all over themselves trying to get to us. I mean, it was crazy how many people were lined up waiting to sign our books. The other thing that they took issue with from a lot of our books, because we worked at the state fair and we didn't get done until 10 o'clock at night, they took issue with the fact that we had self-certified our books instead of having them notarized.
(23:54):
There was nobody around the fairground and they were turning in their books to me so I could turn them into the guy that was coordinating the whole effort, Phil Izon. So we didn't take them to a notary because that would have meant me driving all the way back in there to get them, you know, the next day or two days later. So we signed them and, but now this time we are not, we are notarizing every book or getting every book notarized, not doing it ourselves.
(24:24):
Well, it's interesting. I know that there's a lot of effort from the opposition to prevent this from happening. They can't prevent the process, right? They can't prevent signatures from being collected. But it sounds like what they can do is just, you know, keep you as honest as you have to be, like letter of the law honest, right?
(24:52):
So that puts a great burden upon, you know, my personality is I'm a stickler for details. I am a perfectionist.
That isn't the way for all people. Some people are like, yeah, what does it really matter? Some of the details. But in this instance, the details do matter because there is somebody watching and somebody is going to make a big deal of it. And all of the effort that we have gone to in collecting signatures or signing and sharing our voice may be for naught if we do not
(25:28):
Welcome to my lecture.
That is accurate. And again, they went overboard. You are allowed to self-certify your books if you're not able to get to a notary. That's fine. This also went to court. As I said, the opposition tried everything in their power to stop it, even if it wasn't...
(26:05):
Welcome to my lecture.
(26:33):
us volunteers to say, look, we did this correctly, we did this right, and we had to fight for that to prove that their accusations were false or not relevant. Wow, that's unfortunate. Linda, do you have something you want to add? No, I'm good. Okay.
(26:57):
I was going to reinforce what Lynn said. You know, we met so many everyday Alaskans who are frustrated and ready to fix our elections and folks that saw firsthand how challenging the system could be. And, you know, we really had to be diligent out there because there was a lot of misinformation out there. Some of the people, again, tried to
(27:21):
Welcome to my lecture.
(27:42):
Welcome to my lecture.
(28:11):
Yeah, that's I remember hearing that and very frustrated as a veteran myself. I'm like, that is not accurate. It is not even remotely accurate. But somebody who's halfway around the world doing their job and is not, you know, super tied in with what's what's happening back here in the state might just take that little soundbite and run with it, which is really frustrating. Yeah.
(28:34):
So we're engaging this process to repeal. What's next? Where are we at in the process for repealing? We're collecting signatures. When do we have to have signatures collected by? So January 20th is when the legislature goes back into session. We have to have everything all put together and turned into division of elections before that date.
(29:02):
So our next deadline is the end of this month. We want all of the books that are currently distributed, which is about 300 books. We want the petition gather, the signature gatherers to have their books completed and turned in by the end of the month so that they can be input and we can figure out where we're at so that we'll have time to do what we need to do to fill in the gaps.
(29:31):
And we're hoping to have them all completed by the time snow flies, hopefully the end of September, but you know, it may be a little bit longer than that, but we're shooting for the end of September to have all the signatures turned back in. And we are actually shooting past the goal, which is, you know, it's
(29:52):
We're shooting around 34,000 signatures. We're shooting for more than that because we know that they won't all get counted. There will be issues with some of them. So we're trying to overshoot the target. And it's a little bit harder this time than it was last time because there was a little bit of voter fatigue and people think, well, I already signed the petition. They don't realize that it failed last November.
(30:19):
They're very uninformed about what has happened. They thought it passed and that we were done with it. So they think that they already signed it and you have to ask them questions like, well, when did you sign it to get to the
The crux of the question about whether they should sign it right now or not. Well, let's talk about that for a second. What happens if you sign it twice? And through no malicious intent, you just forgot that you signed it this year. So if you sign it once in July and you sign it again in August, what happens?
(30:55):
Well, if you knowingly signed it more than once and you had some kind of an agenda, then of course you're in trouble. But if like I had an elderly gentleman come to my table the other day at an event and he couldn't remember if he had signed it,
So I was asking him all kinds of pointed questions about it and we finally got down to a specific person that I knew had been in that particular area and I said, was it so-and-so who collected your signature and the light bulb came on and he remembered so he didn't sign it. But, you know, that's an honest mistake that people are going to make because we are living in a fast-paced world and some of the people that are signing our initiative are not, you know, they're not...
(31:41):
25 years old and they're
They're capable of making a decision, but they need time to think about it. This is a long process. We have one year to collect signatures and we're about halfway through that right now. Some people do forget if they had signed or when they had signed. Duplicates will get nixed when they start verifying the names. They will not count.
(32:12):
So they don't take one of the names and throw them out and leave the other? They throw both names out if there's a duplicate? No, they will keep one, but they throw out the duplicate. Okay. I saw some people that had signed maybe three or four times because they had no idea that they only needed to sign once. So, of course, it's just their one entry counts and the rest don't.
(32:40):
Got it. It does make it hard for knowing how many votes or how many signatures you need to get still if you're just counting signatures and somebody is signing two or three times because obviously those second and third times won't count. That's correct.
(33:09):
Welcome to my lecture.
(33:38):
Seven percent.
So each district has a different number, but you only have to get 30 out of the 40 districts. So there's a statewide number that we have to hit in order for this to be valid, but there's also a district number that we also have to achieve as well. So this is a statewide issue. We need boots on the ground in every part of our state. Yeah.
(34:10):
Well, that brings us to a great question then. If there are people that are listening to this and they're saying, hey, you know what, this is something that I could get behind, how do they get in touch with somebody to help out with this? They can send an email to repealnowalaska at gmail.com.
RepealNowAlaska at gmail.com. Perfect. And I'll go ahead and flash that up on the recording when we do the post-processing here so people can see the email address as well. There's also a website, RepealNowAK.com.
(34:46):
Thank you.
Well, I appreciate that. I think it's an important thing that we need to keep pushing for. I sure appreciate both of the sacrifice both of you have put into this, both in the past and what you continue doing. Do you happen to know, do we happen to know so far how many signatures we've got? Or are we not knowing until the end of the month?
(35:24):
We do not know. We have about 300 books that are circulating or actually some of those have been turned in, but we don't have a tally and we likely won't have one until after the end of July when we get all the books, hopefully get the majority of the books back and can see where we are at. Okay.
(35:48):
Well, I sure appreciate you guys participating today. And I think this has been great information for people to know, both those that are wanting to know where we're at with Ranked Choice Voting, those who are collecting books or thinking or wanting to help collect books. Now you know where you can go and what are some of the important things that you need to keep in mind if you're going to do that. And for those that are signing books, make sure you know what your name is.
(36:15):
Your official name and your official address, because that matters. Can I say one thing? Yeah, Lynn, go ahead. So like I said, it's a little bit harder this time to get signatures. We're having to work a little bit harder at it than we did last time. And we are coming down to a point where our person who's doing a lot of the organizing in town has been talking to paid
(36:43):
I'm going to be talking about signature collecting outfits out of state. We don't have any in state. And if we cannot accomplish this with our volunteers, it's going to be a big chunk of money, like in the neighborhood of $250,000 or something like that to pay for the remainder of what is needed once we get all the volunteer
(37:10):
I'm going to turn back in and see where we're at. There are some locations in the state that are harder to get, and we may have to pay somebody to go get those anyway. But they wanted me to drive home the point that we can use all the help that we can get from anybody who has any time to volunteer to put toward this effort. We hear constantly from people about how they hate ranked choice voting.
(37:37):
And we need those people with those sentiments to put their feet on the ground and come join us in this effort. We cannot do it alone. We need your help.
And if you are not able to collect signatures, please at least get out there and sign it and get your neighbors and your friends and family members to make an effort to get to a place where they can sign. And there are some static places. We have businesses. I know in the Valley, I'm the region coordinator for this area. And we have three businesses that have
(38:12):
Welcome to my lecture.
(38:41):
Lynn, that's really key information. Is the website address that you gave out someplace someone can go to find out where, which businesses in their area that they can go visit? I do not believe they are posted on the website, but if they put in a message to, you know, using the messenger in the website or using that Gmail address,
(39:10):
Somebody will give the information to them or they can follow us on Facebook. We have Repeal Now AK on Facebook and we have Repeal Now AK on X. And we post regularly when we are going to be holding events. And oftentimes we will add a little note that says which local businesses are also available for people to go sign.
(39:37):
We'd like to have it on the website, but like I said, this is an all-volunteer effort, including the design and maintenance of the website and all of it. So if there's somebody out there who's interested in using their expertise to help us out, I'm sure that the people in town would be happy to talk to them about them volunteering their time to fulfill that particular need.
(40:03):
If you've got the website pulled up there, Lynn, and I know you're probably familiar with it, but if somebody can't physically help, but they can help financially, are you set up to accept funds yet? Absolutely. And thank you for bringing that up. That is a huge need.
No donation is too small. We need Alaskans to donate. I know that the local gal in Anchorage is talking to out-of-state entities because the beautiful thing about dark money is we're not disallowed from trying to obtain it on our side of the...
(40:41):
The equation also so we are talking to some entities in the lower 48 that can potentially funnel money to the effort and help us out.
And we'll need that money. If we have to hire signature collectors, that is that much less money we'll be able to put toward digital ads and radio ads and whatnot during the campaign in the fall of 2026. We need to spend our money wisely. So we need help to ensure that we get our, you know, the most bang for the bucks that we do have by having volunteers step up and help us with the effort.
(41:24):
Very good. Well, I think we're reaching our time here discussing this topic. Will you please give out the email address one more time and the address to the website so that people will have it? Sure. It's repealnowalaska at gmail.com. Alaska is spelled out. And then the website is repealnowak.com, not spelled out. repealnowak.com.
(41:54):
And look for us on Facebook and X. Follow and share all of the posts. Comment on them. You'll affect the algorithm. And even if you cannot help us collect signatures, you can help us get the word out by sharing what we post so that more people see it. Yeah, this is a rallying cry for all of us.
(42:15):
You know, we've got the power to bring transparency back into our elections. Every voice counts. So we need all the help that we can get. And we need the momentum. We're building the momentum. We, the people, are getting our state back. And it's been fun. We're moving fast. And we need all the help that we can get.
(42:41):
Thank you for having me.
(43:04):
If we don't, it just doesn't work. It doesn't work real well when there's not more voice and more effort helping. You know, it's the whole adage of many hands make light a task, right? I have an adage, too, that I'd like to share. Go right ahead. So my adage is we get the government we deserve. If we don't make the effort, we get what we get. That's right. That's exactly right.
(43:34):
Well said. You put in the effort for self-government and you get something that you deserve. That's right. If you don't put in the effort, you still get what you deserve. That's right. That's good.
All right, ladies, thank you so much for spending some time with me today. I sure appreciate it. If you like what you heard on this podcast and you want to help support the effort of getting more podcasts out and more information like this out, please go to mustreadalaska.com, click on the donate link, and help us keep the lights on and keep moving forward with this message. This is Ben Carpenter signing off from Must Read Alaska. Stay frosty, Alaska.
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