August 10, 2025 • 31 mins
Finding your voice can be one of life's most challenging yet essential skills. As a former therapist with a master's degree in social work, I offer a unique perspective on the viral TikTok controversy where a woman claims her psychiatrist reciprocated romantic feelings. I break down why basic rapport-building techniques are often misinterpreted as romantic interest, and why clear boundaries are crucial in professional relationships.
Drawing from my experience working with vulnerable populations, I explain the importance of documentation, clear communication, and appropriate measures when boundaries are crossed. It's a delicate balance, but it must be maintained; while the main priority of mental health professionals is to help clients, they must also protect themselves from misinterpretation and potential harm to their reputation and career.
Whether you're struggling to speak up for yourself or working in a field where professional boundaries are essential, this episode offers valuable insights into the delicate balance of setting boundaries while maintaining respect and dignity for all involved. Remember, sometimes the bravest thing we can do is speak up, even when our voice is shaking.
Subscribe to Napkin in Between for more candid conversations about life's challenges and the courage it takes to face them head-on.
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Episode Transcript
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Daijné (00:01):
Is this thing on?
Hello, hello.
Uh-oh, another yapper with amic.
Ha ha ha ha.
Hello everyone, and welcomeback to the Napkin in Between
podcast.
I am your host, Daijné Jones.
I hope everyone has been havinga good week, except for that
(00:21):
orange drink lady, of course.
This week I decided to pampermyself.
Hope everyone has been having agood week, except for that
orange drink lady, of course.
This week I decided to pampermyself.
I said, as if I don't pampermyself literally every week, I,
okay, confession, I have aspending problem.
I, I have a spending problem.
I just feel like I'm grown andif I want to treat myself to
(00:42):
something and I have the moneysitting there, like why not do
it?
And the thing is I'm fightingdemons when it comes to spending
and the demon is me.
Like I'll say to myself likeokay, we're going to budget,
this is money for this, we'regoing to put some money aside,
we're going to, you know, dothis, that and the third, and
(01:07):
I'll set these like standardsand goals for myself.
And then I'll come in and I'llset these like standards and
goals for myself.
And then I'll come in and I'lllook at them and I'll say to
myself like I'm grown as fuckand I have free will and I have
the money, so why not, you know,spend it on what I want to
spend it on.
And it's like I I'm not as badas I could be.
I do have like a nice littlesavings and I'm okay.
I just feel like, oh, like I'mgonna treat myself like, and the
thing is, what happens is I'llbe doing so well, like, for
(01:29):
example, with cooking.
The things that I mostly spendmy money on is like clothes,
food but I'll be like I'm gonnacook all week, like I'm not
gonna order out because I'm likeI just bought all these
groceries and so I need to tocook them, right, and so what
I'll do is I'll cook for severaldays and then I'll be like, oh
my God, we're doing so good,like let's treat ourselves, and
(01:50):
then I'll like order out, andthen it just becomes an everyday
thing.
So it's not really a treat,like treats are supposed to be
here and there, you know, and Ijust do it whenever I feel like
it.
Anyway, I treated myself and Igot my nails done, which I love
getting my nails done.
I love getting pedicures.
It's one of my favorite thingsto do.
It's like a form of self-carefor me.
But it's interesting because,like, going to the nail salon is
(02:15):
my happy place, but it's also aplace that gives me a lot of
anxiety, because I reallystruggle with like speaking up
if I don't like something andI've gotten a lot better but I
used to be the person who wouldlike get my nails done,
absolutely hate them.
Look the beautician in her faceor the nail lady in her face.
Say, oh my god, thank you, Ilove them so much, pay her, tip
her and then come home and cryabout them.
And I'm like I I can't keepdoing that, right, like if I
(02:37):
don't like something, I need tobe vocal about it and like let
them know because, at the end ofthe day, it's my money that I'm
spending, so I need to.
If I'm going to be spending myown money, I need to like make
sure I like what I'm spending mymoney on.
You know what I mean?
And so I'm at the nail salon andI'm getting a full set of
acrylics.
And it's to the point, likewe're very early in like the
nail process, like she had justglued the nails on and now we're
(02:58):
like cutting them to the lengththat I want, right.
And so she's asking me whatlength I want.
I like my nails to be like alittle bit long, but not too
long, like I still wanna be ableto function Not saying that you
can't function with longernails, but for me personally,
like it's just they get in theway.
And so I was like telling herlike what, or like showing her
what length I wanted them.
And so she's cutting all of mynails and I noticed that my
(03:20):
thumb is really really short,and so I'm just like am I
tripping?
Like I'm watching her shapethem, and I'm like these are
really like not all the samelength.
And so now I'm sitting there andI'm getting filled with anxiety
because I'm like shit, like I Ihave to say something.
Like my nails look crazy, likethey were all just like they
looked like um, jagged, likethey were just not all the same
(03:43):
length.
And so I'm like fuck, like Ihave to say something.
So I'm sitting there and I'mlike playing over in my head,
like I'm like scripting you knowwhat I mean like this is what
I'm gonna say, this is how she'sgonna respond, and like like
I'm just trying to likevisualize in my head how this
interaction is gonna go.
So I finally, like I speak upand I say, oh, I think the thumb
(04:03):
I just said the thumb because Iwas like let's start like small
, you know.
So I go, the thumb is reallyshort.
And she looks at my thumb andshe goes, just looks at it and
goes OK, and then she just keepsshaping my nails and I'm like,
oh girl, that wasn't your line,like you were supposed to say.
Oh my God, I'm sorry, like, letme fix it.
(04:25):
Like you, you went off script,the script that I planned in my
head.
You went off of it.
And so I'm sitting there andshe's like, not she just
continuing to like go on withdoing my nails.
And I'm like, fuck, this isawkward.
So I say again, I say you know,my thumb is really short.
And she looks at it again andshe goes you'll like it at the
(04:46):
end, you'll like it at the end,like, don't worry.
And I'm like I don't.
Like I said this in my head.
I say like I don't like it now.
So, like I know that I'm notgonna like it at the end because
it's already like I want all mynails to be the same length.
But she's like trying to sithere and convince me like, oh,
it's okay, like you'll like itat the end, and I'm like no,
like I won't.
And now I'm like panickingbecause I'm like, oh, this is
(05:08):
like not going how I scripted itin my head.
So I say one more time I'm likemy thumb is really short.
It's shorter than all the othernails.
And I go see, like I show her mypointer finger, which is the
length that I wanted, and then Ishow her my thumb and it's like
significantly shorter, likethere's a there's length on my
pointer finger, but on my thumbit looks like a nub, like no,
(05:31):
like length to it, if that makessense.
And so I have them like side byside to show her like see, like
these are two different lanes.
And so she's just staring at meand so I go, are we able to
make the thumb the same length?
And she's like it's a style,it's a style, you'll like it at
the end it's okay.
And I'm like I've never seenthis style before in my entire
(05:53):
life, like I've seen the pointerand the middle finger be like a
little bit shorter, like for mywalla walla girlies, and I love
that for them.
But like I, I don't want that,like I want all my nails to be
the same length and also like,even if that is a style, why are
you freestyling on my nails?
Like I don't, I didn't ask forthat.
I wanted them all the samelength.
(06:14):
You know what I mean.
And so, like I still like I canfeel my heart pounding because
this is already a lot for me toeven speak up.
And so I'm like, oh, okay, likeI understand that that's a
style, but like I just wantedthem all the same length.
I'm like I I apologize to sayI'm sorry if, like, I asked for
the wrong thing, but like, yeah,I didn't, I didn't want, you
know, all my nails to be adifferent length.
(06:35):
And then one of her co-workers,who's been like listening to
this entire interaction, besideher, she's doing someone else's
nails.
She looks over and she says,don don't worry, like we'll fix
it.
And so I said, okay, thank you.
And so the woman who was doingmy nails like gets up and walks
away, so I'm just sitting there.
And then the woman who wasworking on someone sitting
beside me, she finishes her andthen she says, like for me to
move over to her chair.
And so I'm sitting in her chairnow and I looking at all my
(07:02):
fingers and she goes, yeah, allof these nails are not the same
length.
And I was like, okay, period,because like I thought I was
tripping and I had onlymentioned the thumb, but yeah,
they were all not.
Like, they were all.
Just I don't know what she did,she was just freestyling and
like made all the differentnails.
I wish I had taken a picture soI could like insert it into
this video now.
But like, all of the nails werejust a different length.
(07:24):
And so I asked the lady I'mlike, can we fix all of them or
do we need to like stop?
Because like I was like I don'twant to go any further, like I
don't want all my nails to be adifferent length, and she's like
, no, no, don't worry.
Like we can fix them.
So she takes off the nails andthen makes get it.
(07:50):
It is like and I don't evenunderstand why, but it is so
anxiety inducing to tell someonewho's doing a service for you
that that you don't like thething that they're doing,
because it's like I think, theway that I think about it in my
head, it's like you're, you'rethe one like the one, like you
know what you're doing, right,like you're the one who went to
school for this, you're the onewho studied this, or have been
doing this for however long,like whatever.
(08:10):
So for me to come in and belike, yeah, no, I don't like
this, I just feel like, oh, like, am I hurting your feelings?
Because, like, that's not mygoal, but my goal is to have
something that I like too,because, like, I'm paying for it
, but it's just, oh, it gives meso much anxiety to speak up and
to be like, yeah, I don't, Idon't like this thing.
(08:31):
And so the fact that I even didthat when I was getting my
nails done, I was like, period,you ate that.
Like you ate that.
It was a struggle because,again, I had scripted it in my
head and then old girl went offscript.
But we got what we wanted atthe end of the day and that's
all that matters.
And the woman who ended updoing my nails she was so
(08:53):
understanding and so nice, likeI kept apologizing, and she's
like you don't need to apologize.
Like you're paying me, I'mtaking your money, so I need to
make sure that you know you likeit.
To make sure that you know youlike it and I said, oh, period,
you ate that.
Because, yes, like I'm not hereto like cause problems, but
also I want to make sure, likeI'm getting what I like.
You know what I mean.
So that was definitely the pickof my week, just number one,
(09:15):
getting my nails done.
It's like again a formerself-care for me, but also like
speaking up for myself andsetting a boundary and like
being like, yeah, I don't likethat, I ate that, I ate that.
Uh, was it hard?
Yes, did I have anxiety?
Yes, was my voice shaking?
Yes, but I was still speakingeven though my voice was shaking
(09:35):
, and that's all that matters.
So please tell me the peak ofyour week, something that made
you smile, kept you grounded,kept you sane in the chaos of
the world.
Speaking of boundaries,segwaying into what we're gonna
talk about today, I want to talkabout this woman who is
attempting to do a resa tisadupe on tiktok right now.
With this whole.
I fell in love with mypsychiatrist and he knew and
kept me on anyway series thatshe's doing, because I find this
(09:57):
very it's a very interestingsituation and I feel like I look
at it a little bit differentlybecause, for those of you who
don't know, I have a master'sdegree in social work and I was
a therapist for years before Igot into nannying and content
creation, and so I feel like Ilook at it more from the side of
the professional and settingboundaries and like what to do
(10:20):
in situations like this if aclient is crossing those
boundaries.
So for those of you who mightnot know what I'm talking about,
there's this woman on TikTokright now.
Her name is Kendra and she'smaking this series about how she
fell in love with herpsychiatrist and he knew and
kept her as a patient anyway,and she's detailing this story
about like she has ADHD.
(10:41):
When she was in college she wastaking medication and then she
stopped it and then she wantedto get back on it several years
later and so she googled like apsychiatrist in her area,
clicked on the first one, madean appointment, went into the
appointment via zoom.
It was never in person and shesays that essentially from the
first meeting of this man, likeshe noticed that he was
(11:01):
attractive and she started todevelop feelings for him.
Now for me, as I was listeningto the very first part,
immediate red flag for me waswhen she says it was her first
meeting.
It was the intake and shetrusted him and so she trauma
(11:21):
dumped all of her past traumaonto him in the first session,
like talked about her daddyissues, talked about her
childhood trauma, likeeverything she just said.
That she immediately opened upand she goes like why wouldn't I
?
He's a professional.
That was an immediate red flagfor me because yes, he is a
professional, but he's still astranger.
(11:42):
You know what I mean.
And also, like a psychiatrist isvery different than a
psychologist.
A psychiatrist for those whodon't know is really just med
management, right.
Like they just give you yourmedication.
You meet with them at least inmy experience like once a month
for five to 15 minutes at a time.
They ask you how your meds aregoing, if you have any side
effects, if you feel like youneed to go up or down in the
(12:03):
dosage, and that's pretty muchit.
I understand the intake is alittle bit longer because they
have to understand who you are,but for the most part, like you
don't really get that deep intoconversations with a
psychiatrist because they'rejust med management.
On the other hand, a therapist,a psychologist, someone like
that like that's like yourtherapy sessions, where they're
(12:24):
hour, hour and a half long 30,like longer than the
psychiatrist right and that'swhere you get into, like your
trauma, your triggers, your theway you move through life and
how you know to better thosethings with your therapist.
And so the fact that she saysshe was so open to you know,
just tell this man everythingfirst meeting, because even when
you have a therapist again andI'm speaking from my experience,
(12:48):
so this is not like a universalthing, right, like everyone has
different experiences, but whenI was a therapist, like you go
into the first session you learna little bit about the client,
but for the most part it'spretty surface level because you
have to build rapport, you haveto get this person to trust you
so that you can dive into, youknow, their trauma, unpack it,
different things like that.
(13:09):
And so for her to be just soopen off rip to me was a little
bit of a red flag like it seemedlike from the beginning she
really didn't have much of anyat any type of boundary, but she
continues to talk about youknow, their meetings and she's,
she's giving signs, I say inquotes, for how you know he knew
(13:29):
that she had feelings for himand he had feelings as well, and
the signs that she's giving arelike basic rapport building
things.
Like, for example, she sayslike oh, he complimented my
glasses, he said that he likedturtle, turtle print glasses, or
whatever.
Like see, that's a sign that heliked me and it's like he maybe
(13:52):
just liked your glasses.
Like I feel like she makes the,the things, the signs, so much
deeper than they actually are.
Like that was just a simplecompliment.
Or she's like he showed aninterest in my interest and I'm
like Again, like that isbuilding rapport.
Like he's just trying to builda safe space for you, because
(14:13):
that's what therapy and again,he's not even a therapist but
like that's what therelationship is.
Like it's supposed to be a safespace so that you know, you
feel comfortable sharing thingswith me, so that I can help you
to the best of my ability.
But like she was taking thosethings of him just like trying
to build rapport and liketwisting them because she had
feelings for him to make it seemlike he also had feelings for
(14:34):
her.
But in one of the parts she saysthat during a session she tells
him that she has a crush on him.
I don't know that, that she hasa crush on him.
I don't know that that she'sthe most reliable source.
I don't know that I fullybelieve everything that she's
(14:55):
saying and like it actually wenthow she, how she says it,
because the things that she saysare inconsistent or they change
.
But if she actually told him Ihave a crush on you keyword.
If, right, if, because I again,I don't know that that even
truly happened.
But if it did happen and ithappened the way that she says
(15:17):
it happened, she says that shetold him she had a crush on him
and he was just like silent andI feel like maybe that was like
a non-verbal cue, like oh, thisis uncomfortable, like this is
not an okay thing, like youshouldn't have a crush on me,
but I it again.
If it happened the way that shesays it, I feel like he should
have verbally told her likelet's work through this.
(15:39):
And so if that happened the waythat she says it happened and
she told him like outright, Ihave a crush on you and he
didn't try to establish somesort of boundary right in that
moment, because she does saythat later on, when she goes to
an in-person meeting with him,he says to her like we have a
professional relationship.
But in the moment where shesays, like I have a crush on you
(16:00):
, she says that he didn't sayanything.
If that is true how thathappened, I think that he maybe
dropped the ball a little bitthere and maybe I have a
different perspective, becauseso when I was in the field, my
first job was at an inpatientpsych hospital for children.
I was the therapist for children, and when I worked at this
(16:22):
psych hospital, I first startedworking there when I was in grad
school.
So I was a direct care worker,I was on the floor, and then,
once I got my master's, theypromoted me to a therapist role.
But the psych hospital that Iworked in, it was for boys age 9
to 18.
And they all had a history ofsome sort of sexual abuse.
Now, for those who might notknow, one of the signs of sexual
(16:43):
abuse is hypersexual activityor hypersexualness, and so for
the hospital that I worked in,like any time any of the boys
would be like overly sexual orsay something that was sexual or
whatever, like even if it couldbe twisted to be sexual.
We had to write that shit down.
We had to clock that shitimmediately.
(17:04):
We had to write it shit down.
We had to clock that shitimmediately.
We had to write it down,document it.
We had to set a boundary or dosomething to let them know like
this is inappropriate, like wecan't be doing that.
You know what I mean.
And so maybe that's why I'mlooking at it in such a
different light is because, like, I feel like I was trained to
like any sort of sexual innuendo, anything sexual, write that
(17:24):
shit down, document, document it, do something to try to rectify
that situation.
And again, I understand thatwith psychiatrists it's
different, like that they're nota therapist, they have
different, you know things thatthey have to do when things
happen in their offices.
But I still feel like,regardless of what type of
mental health provider you are,boundaries still need to be set
right.
(17:44):
Right, like there still needsto be something and not even
just like in the mental healthfield, like with teachers, with
coaches, with whoever, like ifyou're in like a professional
relationship with somebody,there needs to be that
boundaries that are being set.
And again, this is not to saythat he wasn't trying to set
boundaries, but again, off rip.
I got the impression from herthat, like boundaries aren't
(18:08):
enough, like she, she can'thandle just being like setting a
professional boundary.
She had already crossed thatline.
You know what I mean.
And so I feel like, in the eventthat setting boundaries isn't
working, maybe start recordingthe sessions, having someone
else sit in on the sessions,documenting you know, any sort
of advances that she's making,and if all of these things are
(18:30):
tried and exhausted and itdoesn't work, then I do think
that a transfer of care shouldhave been initiated.
And I understand that thingslike this happen or can happen
easily when it comes to someonewho is providing, like, mental
health care, because, again, youare creating a safe space for
someone and so the line can beblurred, and so I'm not saying
that he should have immediatelytransferred care.
(18:52):
I understand that that's notthe first response and I'm not
saying that that should havebeen the first response.
Again, I'm saying, like, set aboundary, have someone sit in,
record the sessions, documentwhat she's saying, like those
should have been tried first,and if those didn't work, then,
yeah, I do feel like a transferof care should have happened.
And I feel like her behaviorright now is case in point as to
why I'm saying these things,like I feel so bad for this man,
(19:15):
because I genuinely do notthink that he was trying to lead
her on.
I don't think that he hadfeelings for her.
I don't think that you know hekept her in this pusher pool hot
and cold bread crumbing her, asshe's saying.
I do not, I don't think thatthat was his intention or his
goal or what he was trying to doLike.
I do think that he was justtrying to help her.
But if she's already crossingthose boundaries and she is
(19:38):
saying I have a crush on you anddoing all these things again,
assuming that what she's sayingis accurate, which I don't think
that it fully is then he is notable to help her.
He is not able to provide theprofessional help that she needs
because she's not keeping itprofessional.
And I know I made a video aboutthis and I shared these
thoughts and people were sayingthat, like you know him
(20:00):
immediately transferring hercould have been detrimental to
her progress.
And again I say now, when I saidin the video, like I didn't say
immediately transfer her, butalso keeping her in this
situation with keeping, likekeeping him as her psychiatrist,
that's detrimental to herprogress and her care as well,
(20:22):
because she's not looking at himas just like this professional
who is here to help me.
She is developing feelings forhim, romantic feelings that are
interfering with her care, right, and so I think that it's.
This is all a very tricky,sticky situation and there's no
one cookie cutter, correctanswer to this, but I think that
(20:44):
when you're in the field, like,yes, your priority is to help
your clients, but your priorityalso has to be yourself as well
and protecting yourself.
And maybe maybe these thingswere happening and like it sucks
because he can't even come outand defend himself because of
HIPAA, but maybe these thingswere happening, maybe he was
recording the sessions anddocumenting it or whatever.
(21:06):
But clearly, again, given howshe's behaving right now, that
wasn't enough and I hate thisfor him.
I'm saying this more so for hisprotection than for hers, cause
like clearly I feel like heneeded to be protected from her
more than anything because nowshe's online, like smearing this
man's name.
She said that she accidentallyname dropped him.
(21:28):
People have found him and are,you know, posting his photo,
posting his name, and it's justlike I feel so bad for this man
because I do genuinely thinkthat he just wanted to help her,
he just wanted to providemental health care for her and
she was so wrapped up in youknow her feelings and having
(21:49):
feelings for him and then havingher feelings co-signed by a
fucking ai robot like yo ai, islike for people to actually use
ai as like a friend or likesomeone who's like you're
bouncing ideas off of this robot.
Like do people really notunderstand that?
(22:09):
Like the AI is going to tellyou what you want to hear.
Like, if you're like tellingthem a situation and you're like
I think this or whatever,they're gonna co-sign, whatever
it is that you're saying, so forher to use the AI robot as like
a cosign, oh, like, what is theworld coming to?
(22:32):
Like what are what are y'alldoing?
Truly, what is going on?
Like, I'm scared for y'all thatlike this is not.
No, first of all, the AI is sobad for the environment.
It wastes a ton of water andalso, it is that damn phone.
It is Our mothers were right.
(22:53):
It is that damn phone.
Y'all have got to get off thosephones and go touch some
fucking grass.
This is not normal, this is nothealthy.
This is not what should behappening.
Y'all, please save yourselves.
Oh, my god.
But I just I feel so bad forthis man, because I think that
(23:14):
she's the type of person thatonce she's made her mind up
about something, she, her mindis made up like she's not.
She doesn't.
She doesn't understand what aboundary is.
She doesn't understand thatthere could be other perceptions
, clear, like clearly, shedoesn't understand what
boundaries are.
Because she says that sherecorded one of their sessions,
specifically the session whereshe told him that she had a
(23:34):
crush on him.
She said that she recorded itand she has the recording of the
session.
So this woman she would notknow what a boundary was if it
like slapped her in the face.
And that's something that Ifeel like we have to, as mental
health professionals.
We have to take into account.
I don't know how to say this ina in a better way, and I I
genuinely do not mean this to tocome off and sound negative,
(23:58):
but, as a mental healthprofessional, when you are
working with people, if peopleare coming in for mental health
help, they're not like all theway there.
Do you know what I mean?
Like they're.
That's the reason they'recoming in is because they're
struggling with their mentalhealth, or something is like not
going to the best of itsability.
(24:19):
Do you know what I mean, andI'm not trying to say that like
I'm trying to figure out how tosay this in a way that doesn't
sound rude, because I commendpeople who go in for mental
health help.
That is huge, especially likemental health is not taken
seriously enough and and peopleare judged or looked down upon
or made to feel like lesser thanfor having mental health
struggles.
And it's like you, going in formental health help is huge in
(24:44):
and of itself.
You being able to admit like,yeah, I need help with this
thing, that is huge.
And so, of itself, you beingable to admit like, yeah, I need
help with this thing, that ishuge.
And so I'm not saying this in away that it's like you know, I
don't mean this to be or tosound derogatory, but like if
someone is coming in for mentalhealth help, they're struggling
in some sort of way, and so Ifeel like it's even more
important to have and to setthose boundaries, because I feel
(25:05):
like it's a slippery slope whenit comes to, like a therapist
or a psychiatrist.
It's like you're talking tothem about very personal things,
and so if those boundariesaren't set and they're not
concrete, the professionalrelationship could turn into
something that's not asprofessional like they could
think like, oh, like you're myfriend, or there's like a
romantic connection.
And I can see how, on both ends, that can be hard, because you
(25:28):
are trying to build rapport as atherapist, a psychiatrist,
whatever.
You are trying to build rapportwith your clients because you
do want them to trust you, butthose boundaries are still
incredibly important and theyhave to be solidified and
concrete so things like thisdon't happen.
And so, as we're over today'sepisode, I just want to say,
like anyone who's in the mentalhealth field, who is in school
(25:52):
for mental health, like whatever, please just remember, like
boundaries and keeping therelationship professional is so
incredibly important.
And I'm not saying that hedidn't do these things, because
by her own admission, in some ofher parts it does sound like he
was trying to, but I don't knowthat.
That was enough case in point.
(26:12):
What she's doing right now,right.
So I understand, like I'm not atall saying that you should rush
to try to transfer someone ifthey are displaying unhealthy
boundaries with you, but justmake sure you're documenting,
make sure you are recording ifyou can, having someone sit into
the sessions if you can like,because at the end of the day,
(26:34):
like you've worked so hard forthis degree and to work in this
field and I would hate for thatto be taken when you were just
trying to do your job and youwere just trying to help.
You know what I mean,especially if you are like a
psychiatrist or like at thedoctor level, like it's a lot of
fucking work at any level, butlike, obviously like doctorates
(26:57):
and things like that, likethat's more work than because
it's a higher degree right, butany degree like that's a lot of
work, it's a lot of time, it's alot of energy and that's like
you have to make sure youprotect yourself as well.
And again, maybe this is comingfrom a place of you know the
work that I did we were so likeevery single, every, every
(27:18):
little thing that could havebeen taken in in the wrong
context, we had to write it down, we had to do something to
document it.
I think that that it's betterto be safe than sorry.
It's so much better to be safethan sorry.
And also on the on the clientend as well, because I do know
that things like this do happen,but does it seem like it
happened in this situation withKendra?
(27:38):
No, it doesn't.
It seems like to me he was justtrying to do his job and help
her and she was so like, oh, Ihave feelings for this man, so
she was doing anything that shecould to make it seem like he
also had feelings for her, but Idon't think that those feelings
were reciprocated at all.
So, again, coming from someonewho was in the field, just make
(28:02):
sure you are protecting yourselfas well.
I understand that your, yourmain goal is to help the client,
but just remember that part ofhelping your client is making
sure that the professionalboundary is not crossed.
And if those cannot be kept andyou're trying everything you
know documenting, recording,trying to redirect those
(28:22):
feelings or rectify them, tokeep that professional line
there if, if it isn't able to bekept, the best thing that you
can do to help the client is torefer them to somebody else.
And not only can that be thebest thing to help the client,
but for you as well, because Iunderstand that the forefront of
this work is to help the client, but you have to make sure that
(28:44):
you yourself are also protected.
So, moral of the story I I feelso bad for this man.
I I hope that he is doing okay,because I know some people have
found him and are posting hisphoto and his information and
his family.
Like y'all have gotta chill.
That's like, that's fuckingcrazy.
(29:05):
And then she is in the videostalking about some y'all found
his family.
I wasn't even able to do that,huh girl, like oh my god, I'm
scared for him.
I'm really, I'm actually scaredfor him because, like she just
is not no shade, she's not welland like that sucks.
Like I'm not trying to speakbadly about her, speak badly
(29:28):
about mental health, because,like it is a real thing and
people do really struggle, butit's clear like she needs help.
I hope that she finds the helpthat she needs as well and I
hope that this man is okay andhe has done some sort of
documentation or something tomake sure that you know his
license is okay and he cancontinue to practice.
(29:49):
Because, like this is justreally really scary and it makes
me really scared for mentalhealth professionals because,
yes, the main priority is, youknow, the patient, but also, how
do we protect ourselves as well?
How do we make sure that youknow we don't lose our jobs or
our livelihood or our reputationisn't tarnished, while also
(30:09):
simultaneously trying to bethere to help.
You know our clients.
So I think best thing to do isto document, record, have
someone sit in if you can, justtry everything to make sure that
those professional boundariesare not crossed.
Those professional boundariesare not crossed.
(30:31):
And if that does not work, Iwould say in a transfer, because
at the end of the day, ifsomeone is having romantic
feelings for you, you can'treally be there for them in the
way that they need you to be,because the way that you are
supposed to be there for them isa professional way and if
they're crossing thoseprofessional boundaries, you
can't even really help them tothe best of your ability or to,
like, the extent that they needthat help.
(30:52):
So, yeah, just make sure as theprofessional, you're also
protecting yourself and againI'm speaking with to mental
health providers right now, butthis goes for anyone who's in
any sort of professionalrelationship like, just make
sure you are documenting andkeeping track of everything,
just to make.
It's always better to be safethan sorry.
(31:13):
That's basically what I'mtrying to say.
Like, always better to be safethan sorry.
So just make sure again, yes,you are there to help your
client, but just make sure youare protected and okay as well.
Thank you guys so much forwatching this episode.
I hope everyone's having a goodday, except for that orange
drink lady, and I will talk toyou in the next episode.
Peace and love.
Talk to you later.
The Napkin in Between, hostedby Daijné Jones, produced by
(31:35):
Daijné Jones, post-production byDaijné Jones, music by Sam
Champagne and graphics by IsmaVidal.
Don't forget to like andsubscribe.
Is this thing on?
Hello, hello.
Uh-oh, another yapper with amic.
Ha ha ha ha.
Hello everyone, and welcomeback to the Napkin in Between
podcast.
I am your host, Daijné Jones.
I hope everyone has been havinga good week, except for that
(00:21):
orange drink lady, of course.
This week I decided to pampermyself.
Hope everyone has been having agood week, except for that
orange drink lady, of course.
This week I decided to pampermyself.
I said, as if I don't pampermyself literally every week, I,
okay, confession, I have aspending problem.
I, I have a spending problem.
I just feel like I'm grown andif I want to treat myself to
(00:42):
something and I have the moneysitting there, like why not do
it?
And the thing is I'm fightingdemons when it comes to spending
and the demon is me.
Like I'll say to myself likeokay, we're going to budget,
this is money for this, we'regoing to put some money aside,
we're going to, you know, dothis, that and the third, and
(01:07):
I'll set these like standardsand goals for myself.
And then I'll come in and I'llset these like standards and
goals for myself.
And then I'll come in and I'lllook at them and I'll say to
myself like I'm grown as fuckand I have free will and I have
the money, so why not, you know,spend it on what I want to
spend it on.
And it's like I I'm not as badas I could be.
I do have like a nice littlesavings and I'm okay.
I just feel like, oh, like I'mgonna treat myself like, and the
thing is, what happens is I'llbe doing so well, like, for
(01:29):
example, with cooking.
The things that I mostly spendmy money on is like clothes,
food but I'll be like I'm gonnacook all week, like I'm not
gonna order out because I'm likeI just bought all these
groceries and so I need to tocook them, right, and so what
I'll do is I'll cook for severaldays and then I'll be like, oh
my God, we're doing so good,like let's treat ourselves, and
(01:50):
then I'll like order out, andthen it just becomes an everyday
thing.
So it's not really a treat,like treats are supposed to be
here and there, you know, and Ijust do it whenever I feel like
it.
Anyway, I treated myself and Igot my nails done, which I love
getting my nails done.
I love getting pedicures.
It's one of my favorite thingsto do.
It's like a form of self-carefor me.
But it's interesting because,like, going to the nail salon is
(02:15):
my happy place, but it's also aplace that gives me a lot of
anxiety, because I reallystruggle with like speaking up
if I don't like something andI've gotten a lot better but I
used to be the person who wouldlike get my nails done,
absolutely hate them.
Look the beautician in her faceor the nail lady in her face.
Say, oh my god, thank you, Ilove them so much, pay her, tip
her and then come home and cryabout them.
And I'm like I I can't keepdoing that, right, like if I
(02:37):
don't like something, I need tobe vocal about it and like let
them know because, at the end ofthe day, it's my money that I'm
spending, so I need to.
If I'm going to be spending myown money, I need to like make
sure I like what I'm spending mymoney on.
You know what I mean?
And so I'm at the nail salon andI'm getting a full set of
acrylics.
And it's to the point, likewe're very early in like the
nail process, like she had justglued the nails on and now we're
(02:58):
like cutting them to the lengththat I want, right.
And so she's asking me whatlength I want.
I like my nails to be like alittle bit long, but not too
long, like I still wanna be ableto function Not saying that you
can't function with longernails, but for me personally,
like it's just they get in theway.
And so I was like telling herlike what, or like showing her
what length I wanted them.
And so she's cutting all of mynails and I noticed that my
(03:20):
thumb is really really short,and so I'm just like am I
tripping?
Like I'm watching her shapethem, and I'm like these are
really like not all the samelength.
And so now I'm sitting there andI'm getting filled with anxiety
because I'm like shit, like I Ihave to say something.
Like my nails look crazy, likethey were all just like they
looked like um, jagged, likethey were just not all the same
(03:43):
length.
And so I'm like fuck, like Ihave to say something.
So I'm sitting there and I'mlike playing over in my head,
like I'm like scripting you knowwhat I mean like this is what
I'm gonna say, this is how she'sgonna respond, and like like
I'm just trying to likevisualize in my head how this
interaction is gonna go.
So I finally, like I speak upand I say, oh, I think the thumb
(04:03):
I just said the thumb because Iwas like let's start like small
, you know.
So I go, the thumb is reallyshort.
And she looks at my thumb andshe goes, just looks at it and
goes OK, and then she just keepsshaping my nails and I'm like,
oh girl, that wasn't your line,like you were supposed to say.
Oh my God, I'm sorry, like, letme fix it.
(04:25):
Like you, you went off script,the script that I planned in my
head.
You went off of it.
And so I'm sitting there andshe's like, not she just
continuing to like go on withdoing my nails.
And I'm like, fuck, this isawkward.
So I say again, I say you know,my thumb is really short.
And she looks at it again andshe goes you'll like it at the
(04:46):
end, you'll like it at the end,like, don't worry.
And I'm like I don't.
Like I said this in my head.
I say like I don't like it now.
So, like I know that I'm notgonna like it at the end because
it's already like I want all mynails to be the same length.
But she's like trying to sithere and convince me like, oh,
it's okay, like you'll like itat the end, and I'm like no,
like I won't.
And now I'm like panickingbecause I'm like, oh, this is
(05:08):
like not going how I scripted itin my head.
So I say one more time I'm likemy thumb is really short.
It's shorter than all the othernails.
And I go see, like I show her mypointer finger, which is the
length that I wanted, and then Ishow her my thumb and it's like
significantly shorter, likethere's a there's length on my
pointer finger, but on my thumbit looks like a nub, like no,
(05:31):
like length to it, if that makessense.
And so I have them like side byside to show her like see, like
these are two different lanes.
And so she's just staring at meand so I go, are we able to
make the thumb the same length?
And she's like it's a style,it's a style, you'll like it at
the end it's okay.
And I'm like I've never seenthis style before in my entire
(05:53):
life, like I've seen the pointerand the middle finger be like a
little bit shorter, like for mywalla walla girlies, and I love
that for them.
But like I, I don't want that,like I want all my nails to be
the same length and also like,even if that is a style, why are
you freestyling on my nails?
Like I don't, I didn't ask forthat.
I wanted them all the samelength.
(06:14):
You know what I mean.
And so, like I still like I canfeel my heart pounding because
this is already a lot for me toeven speak up.
And so I'm like, oh, okay, likeI understand that that's a
style, but like I just wantedthem all the same length.
I'm like I I apologize to sayI'm sorry if, like, I asked for
the wrong thing, but like, yeah,I didn't, I didn't want, you
know, all my nails to be adifferent length.
(06:35):
And then one of her co-workers,who's been like listening to
this entire interaction, besideher, she's doing someone else's
nails.
She looks over and she says,don don't worry, like we'll fix
it.
And so I said, okay, thank you.
And so the woman who was doingmy nails like gets up and walks
away, so I'm just sitting there.
And then the woman who wasworking on someone sitting
beside me, she finishes her andthen she says, like for me to
move over to her chair.
And so I'm sitting in her chairnow and I looking at all my
(07:02):
fingers and she goes, yeah, allof these nails are not the same
length.
And I was like, okay, period,because like I thought I was
tripping and I had onlymentioned the thumb, but yeah,
they were all not.
Like, they were all.
Just I don't know what she did,she was just freestyling and
like made all the differentnails.
I wish I had taken a picture soI could like insert it into
this video now.
But like, all of the nails werejust a different length.
(07:24):
And so I asked the lady I'mlike, can we fix all of them or
do we need to like stop?
Because like I was like I don'twant to go any further, like I
don't want all my nails to be adifferent length, and she's like
, no, no, don't worry.
Like we can fix them.
So she takes off the nails andthen makes get it.
(07:50):
It is like and I don't evenunderstand why, but it is so
anxiety inducing to tell someonewho's doing a service for you
that that you don't like thething that they're doing,
because it's like I think, theway that I think about it in my
head, it's like you're, you'rethe one like the one, like you
know what you're doing, right,like you're the one who went to
school for this, you're the onewho studied this, or have been
doing this for however long,like whatever.
(08:10):
So for me to come in and belike, yeah, no, I don't like
this, I just feel like, oh, like, am I hurting your feelings?
Because, like, that's not mygoal, but my goal is to have
something that I like too,because, like, I'm paying for it
, but it's just, oh, it gives meso much anxiety to speak up and
to be like, yeah, I don't, Idon't like this thing.
(08:31):
And so the fact that I even didthat when I was getting my
nails done, I was like, period,you ate that.
Like you ate that.
It was a struggle because,again, I had scripted it in my
head and then old girl went offscript.
But we got what we wanted atthe end of the day and that's
all that matters.
And the woman who ended updoing my nails she was so
(08:53):
understanding and so nice, likeI kept apologizing, and she's
like you don't need to apologize.
Like you're paying me, I'mtaking your money, so I need to
make sure that you know you likeit.
To make sure that you know youlike it and I said, oh, period,
you ate that.
Because, yes, like I'm not hereto like cause problems, but
also I want to make sure, likeI'm getting what I like.
You know what I mean.
So that was definitely the pickof my week, just number one,
(09:15):
getting my nails done.
It's like again a formerself-care for me, but also like
speaking up for myself andsetting a boundary and like
being like, yeah, I don't likethat, I ate that, I ate that.
Uh, was it hard?
Yes, did I have anxiety?
Yes, was my voice shaking?
Yes, but I was still speakingeven though my voice was shaking
(09:35):
, and that's all that matters.
So please tell me the peak ofyour week, something that made
you smile, kept you grounded,kept you sane in the chaos of
the world.
Speaking of boundaries,segwaying into what we're gonna
talk about today, I want to talkabout this woman who is
attempting to do a resa tisadupe on tiktok right now.
With this whole.
I fell in love with mypsychiatrist and he knew and
kept me on anyway series thatshe's doing, because I find this
(09:57):
very it's a very interestingsituation and I feel like I look
at it a little bit differentlybecause, for those of you who
don't know, I have a master'sdegree in social work and I was
a therapist for years before Igot into nannying and content
creation, and so I feel like Ilook at it more from the side of
the professional and settingboundaries and like what to do
(10:20):
in situations like this if aclient is crossing those
boundaries.
So for those of you who mightnot know what I'm talking about,
there's this woman on TikTokright now.
Her name is Kendra and she'smaking this series about how she
fell in love with herpsychiatrist and he knew and
kept her as a patient anyway,and she's detailing this story
about like she has ADHD.
(10:41):
When she was in college she wastaking medication and then she
stopped it and then she wantedto get back on it several years
later and so she googled like apsychiatrist in her area,
clicked on the first one, madean appointment, went into the
appointment via zoom.
It was never in person and shesays that essentially from the
first meeting of this man, likeshe noticed that he was
(11:01):
attractive and she started todevelop feelings for him.
Now for me, as I was listeningto the very first part,
immediate red flag for me waswhen she says it was her first
meeting.
It was the intake and shetrusted him and so she trauma
(11:21):
dumped all of her past traumaonto him in the first session,
like talked about her daddyissues, talked about her
childhood trauma, likeeverything she just said.
That she immediately opened upand she goes like why wouldn't I
?
He's a professional.
That was an immediate red flagfor me because yes, he is a
professional, but he's still astranger.
(11:42):
You know what I mean.
And also, like a psychiatrist isvery different than a
psychologist.
A psychiatrist for those whodon't know is really just med
management, right.
Like they just give you yourmedication.
You meet with them at least inmy experience like once a month
for five to 15 minutes at a time.
They ask you how your meds aregoing, if you have any side
effects, if you feel like youneed to go up or down in the
(12:03):
dosage, and that's pretty muchit.
I understand the intake is alittle bit longer because they
have to understand who you are,but for the most part, like you
don't really get that deep intoconversations with a
psychiatrist because they'rejust med management.
On the other hand, a therapist,a psychologist, someone like
that like that's like yourtherapy sessions, where they're
(12:24):
hour, hour and a half long 30,like longer than the
psychiatrist right and that'swhere you get into, like your
trauma, your triggers, your theway you move through life and
how you know to better thosethings with your therapist.
And so the fact that she saysshe was so open to you know,
just tell this man everythingfirst meeting, because even when
you have a therapist again andI'm speaking from my experience,
(12:48):
so this is not like a universalthing, right, like everyone has
different experiences, but whenI was a therapist, like you go
into the first session you learna little bit about the client,
but for the most part it'spretty surface level because you
have to build rapport, you haveto get this person to trust you
so that you can dive into, youknow, their trauma, unpack it,
different things like that.
(13:09):
And so for her to be just soopen off rip to me was a little
bit of a red flag like it seemedlike from the beginning she
really didn't have much of anyat any type of boundary, but she
continues to talk about youknow, their meetings and she's,
she's giving signs, I say inquotes, for how you know he knew
(13:29):
that she had feelings for himand he had feelings as well, and
the signs that she's giving arelike basic rapport building
things.
Like, for example, she sayslike oh, he complimented my
glasses, he said that he likedturtle, turtle print glasses, or
whatever.
Like see, that's a sign that heliked me and it's like he maybe
(13:52):
just liked your glasses.
Like I feel like she makes the,the things, the signs, so much
deeper than they actually are.
Like that was just a simplecompliment.
Or she's like he showed aninterest in my interest and I'm
like Again, like that isbuilding rapport.
Like he's just trying to builda safe space for you, because
(14:13):
that's what therapy and again,he's not even a therapist but
like that's what therelationship is.
Like it's supposed to be a safespace so that you know, you
feel comfortable sharing thingswith me, so that I can help you
to the best of my ability.
But like she was taking thosethings of him just like trying
to build rapport and liketwisting them because she had
feelings for him to make it seemlike he also had feelings for
(14:34):
her.
But in one of the parts she saysthat during a session she tells
him that she has a crush on him.
I don't know that, that she hasa crush on him.
I don't know that that she'sthe most reliable source.
I don't know that I fullybelieve everything that she's
(14:55):
saying and like it actually wenthow she, how she says it,
because the things that she saysare inconsistent or they change
.
But if she actually told him Ihave a crush on you keyword.
If, right, if, because I again,I don't know that that even
truly happened.
But if it did happen and ithappened the way that she says
(15:17):
it happened, she says that shetold him she had a crush on him
and he was just like silent andI feel like maybe that was like
a non-verbal cue, like oh, thisis uncomfortable, like this is
not an okay thing, like youshouldn't have a crush on me,
but I it again.
If it happened the way that shesays it, I feel like he should
have verbally told her likelet's work through this.
(15:39):
And so if that happened the waythat she says it happened and
she told him like outright, Ihave a crush on you and he
didn't try to establish somesort of boundary right in that
moment, because she does saythat later on, when she goes to
an in-person meeting with him,he says to her like we have a
professional relationship.
But in the moment where shesays, like I have a crush on you
(16:00):
, she says that he didn't sayanything.
If that is true how thathappened, I think that he maybe
dropped the ball a little bitthere and maybe I have a
different perspective, becauseso when I was in the field, my
first job was at an inpatientpsych hospital for children.
I was the therapist for children, and when I worked at this
(16:22):
psych hospital, I first startedworking there when I was in grad
school.
So I was a direct care worker,I was on the floor, and then,
once I got my master's, theypromoted me to a therapist role.
But the psych hospital that Iworked in, it was for boys age 9
to 18.
And they all had a history ofsome sort of sexual abuse.
Now, for those who might notknow, one of the signs of sexual
(16:43):
abuse is hypersexual activityor hypersexualness, and so for
the hospital that I worked in,like any time any of the boys
would be like overly sexual orsay something that was sexual or
whatever, like even if it couldbe twisted to be sexual.
We had to write that shit down.
We had to clock that shitimmediately.
(17:04):
We had to write it shit down.
We had to clock that shitimmediately.
We had to write it down,document it.
We had to set a boundary or dosomething to let them know like
this is inappropriate, like wecan't be doing that.
You know what I mean.
And so maybe that's why I'mlooking at it in such a
different light is because, like, I feel like I was trained to
like any sort of sexual innuendo, anything sexual, write that
(17:24):
shit down, document, document it, do something to try to rectify
that situation.
And again, I understand thatwith psychiatrists it's
different, like that they're nota therapist, they have
different, you know things thatthey have to do when things
happen in their offices.
But I still feel like,regardless of what type of
mental health provider you are,boundaries still need to be set
right.
(17:44):
Right, like there still needsto be something and not even
just like in the mental healthfield, like with teachers, with
coaches, with whoever, like ifyou're in like a professional
relationship with somebody,there needs to be that
boundaries that are being set.
And again, this is not to saythat he wasn't trying to set
boundaries, but again, off rip.
I got the impression from herthat, like boundaries aren't
(18:08):
enough, like she, she can'thandle just being like setting a
professional boundary.
She had already crossed thatline.
You know what I mean.
And so I feel like, in the eventthat setting boundaries isn't
working, maybe start recordingthe sessions, having someone
else sit in on the sessions,documenting you know, any sort
of advances that she's making,and if all of these things are
(18:30):
tried and exhausted and itdoesn't work, then I do think
that a transfer of care shouldhave been initiated.
And I understand that thingslike this happen or can happen
easily when it comes to someonewho is providing, like, mental
health care, because, again, youare creating a safe space for
someone and so the line can beblurred, and so I'm not saying
that he should have immediatelytransferred care.
(18:52):
I understand that that's notthe first response and I'm not
saying that that should havebeen the first response.
Again, I'm saying, like, set aboundary, have someone sit in,
record the sessions, documentwhat she's saying, like those
should have been tried first,and if those didn't work, then,
yeah, I do feel like a transferof care should have happened.
And I feel like her behaviorright now is case in point as to
why I'm saying these things,like I feel so bad for this man,
(19:15):
because I genuinely do notthink that he was trying to lead
her on.
I don't think that he hadfeelings for her.
I don't think that you know hekept her in this pusher pool hot
and cold bread crumbing her, asshe's saying.
I do not, I don't think thatthat was his intention or his
goal or what he was trying to doLike.
I do think that he was justtrying to help her.
But if she's already crossingthose boundaries and she is
(19:38):
saying I have a crush on you anddoing all these things again,
assuming that what she's sayingis accurate, which I don't think
that it fully is then he is notable to help her.
He is not able to provide theprofessional help that she needs
because she's not keeping itprofessional.
And I know I made a video aboutthis and I shared these
thoughts and people were sayingthat, like you know him
(20:00):
immediately transferring hercould have been detrimental to
her progress.
And again I say now, when I saidin the video, like I didn't say
immediately transfer her, butalso keeping her in this
situation with keeping, likekeeping him as her psychiatrist,
that's detrimental to herprogress and her care as well,
(20:22):
because she's not looking at himas just like this professional
who is here to help me.
She is developing feelings forhim, romantic feelings that are
interfering with her care, right, and so I think that it's.
This is all a very tricky,sticky situation and there's no
one cookie cutter, correctanswer to this, but I think that
(20:44):
when you're in the field, like,yes, your priority is to help
your clients, but your priorityalso has to be yourself as well
and protecting yourself.
And maybe maybe these thingswere happening and like it sucks
because he can't even come outand defend himself because of
HIPAA, but maybe these thingswere happening, maybe he was
recording the sessions anddocumenting it or whatever.
(21:06):
But clearly, again, given howshe's behaving right now, that
wasn't enough and I hate thisfor him.
I'm saying this more so for hisprotection than for hers, cause
like clearly I feel like heneeded to be protected from her
more than anything because nowshe's online, like smearing this
man's name.
She said that she accidentallyname dropped him.
(21:28):
People have found him and are,you know, posting his photo,
posting his name, and it's justlike I feel so bad for this man
because I do genuinely thinkthat he just wanted to help her,
he just wanted to providemental health care for her and
she was so wrapped up in youknow her feelings and having
(21:49):
feelings for him and then havingher feelings co-signed by a
fucking ai robot like yo ai, islike for people to actually use
ai as like a friend or likesomeone who's like you're
bouncing ideas off of this robot.
Like do people really notunderstand that?
(22:09):
Like the AI is going to tellyou what you want to hear.
Like, if you're like tellingthem a situation and you're like
I think this or whatever,they're gonna co-sign, whatever
it is that you're saying, so forher to use the AI robot as like
a cosign, oh, like, what is theworld coming to?
(22:32):
Like what are what are y'alldoing?
Truly, what is going on?
Like, I'm scared for y'all thatlike this is not.
No, first of all, the AI is sobad for the environment.
It wastes a ton of water andalso, it is that damn phone.
It is Our mothers were right.
(22:53):
It is that damn phone.
Y'all have got to get off thosephones and go touch some
fucking grass.
This is not normal, this is nothealthy.
This is not what should behappening.
Y'all, please save yourselves.
Oh, my god.
But I just I feel so bad forthis man, because I think that
(23:14):
she's the type of person thatonce she's made her mind up
about something, she, her mindis made up like she's not.
She doesn't.
She doesn't understand what aboundary is.
She doesn't understand thatthere could be other perceptions
, clear, like clearly, shedoesn't understand what
boundaries are.
Because she says that sherecorded one of their sessions,
specifically the session whereshe told him that she had a
(23:34):
crush on him.
She said that she recorded itand she has the recording of the
session.
So this woman she would notknow what a boundary was if it
like slapped her in the face.
And that's something that Ifeel like we have to, as mental
health professionals.
We have to take into account.
I don't know how to say this ina in a better way, and I I
genuinely do not mean this to tocome off and sound negative,
(23:58):
but, as a mental healthprofessional, when you are
working with people, if peopleare coming in for mental health
help, they're not like all theway there.
Do you know what I mean?
Like they're.
That's the reason they'recoming in is because they're
struggling with their mentalhealth, or something is like not
going to the best of itsability.
(24:19):
Do you know what I mean, andI'm not trying to say that like
I'm trying to figure out how tosay this in a way that doesn't
sound rude, because I commendpeople who go in for mental
health help.
That is huge, especially likemental health is not taken
seriously enough and and peopleare judged or looked down upon
or made to feel like lesser thanfor having mental health
struggles.
And it's like you, going in formental health help is huge in
(24:44):
and of itself.
You being able to admit like,yeah, I need help with this
thing, that is huge.
And so, of itself, you beingable to admit like, yeah, I need
help with this thing, that ishuge.
And so I'm not saying this in away that it's like you know, I
don't mean this to be or tosound derogatory, but like if
someone is coming in for mentalhealth help, they're struggling
in some sort of way, and so Ifeel like it's even more
important to have and to setthose boundaries, because I feel
(25:05):
like it's a slippery slope whenit comes to, like a therapist
or a psychiatrist.
It's like you're talking tothem about very personal things,
and so if those boundariesaren't set and they're not
concrete, the professionalrelationship could turn into
something that's not asprofessional like they could
think like, oh, like you're myfriend, or there's like a
romantic connection.
And I can see how, on both ends, that can be hard, because you
(25:28):
are trying to build rapport as atherapist, a psychiatrist,
whatever.
You are trying to build rapportwith your clients because you
do want them to trust you, butthose boundaries are still
incredibly important and theyhave to be solidified and
concrete so things like thisdon't happen.
And so, as we're over today'sepisode, I just want to say,
like anyone who's in the mentalhealth field, who is in school
(25:52):
for mental health, like whatever, please just remember, like
boundaries and keeping therelationship professional is so
incredibly important.
And I'm not saying that hedidn't do these things, because
by her own admission, in some ofher parts it does sound like he
was trying to, but I don't knowthat.
That was enough case in point.
(26:12):
What she's doing right now,right.
So I understand, like I'm not atall saying that you should rush
to try to transfer someone ifthey are displaying unhealthy
boundaries with you, but justmake sure you're documenting,
make sure you are recording ifyou can, having someone sit into
the sessions if you can like,because at the end of the day,
(26:34):
like you've worked so hard forthis degree and to work in this
field and I would hate for thatto be taken when you were just
trying to do your job and youwere just trying to help.
You know what I mean,especially if you are like a
psychiatrist or like at thedoctor level, like it's a lot of
fucking work at any level, butlike, obviously like doctorates
(26:57):
and things like that, likethat's more work than because
it's a higher degree right, butany degree like that's a lot of
work, it's a lot of time, it's alot of energy and that's like
you have to make sure youprotect yourself as well.
And again, maybe this is comingfrom a place of you know the
work that I did we were so likeevery single, every, every
(27:18):
little thing that could havebeen taken in in the wrong
context, we had to write it down, we had to do something to
document it.
I think that that it's betterto be safe than sorry.
It's so much better to be safethan sorry.
And also on the on the clientend as well, because I do know
that things like this do happen,but does it seem like it
happened in this situation withKendra?
(27:38):
No, it doesn't.
It seems like to me he was justtrying to do his job and help
her and she was so like, oh, Ihave feelings for this man, so
she was doing anything that shecould to make it seem like he
also had feelings for her, but Idon't think that those feelings
were reciprocated at all.
So, again, coming from someonewho was in the field, just make
(28:02):
sure you are protecting yourselfas well.
I understand that your, yourmain goal is to help the client,
but just remember that part ofhelping your client is making
sure that the professionalboundary is not crossed.
And if those cannot be kept andyou're trying everything you
know documenting, recording,trying to redirect those
(28:22):
feelings or rectify them, tokeep that professional line
there if, if it isn't able to bekept, the best thing that you
can do to help the client is torefer them to somebody else.
And not only can that be thebest thing to help the client,
but for you as well, because Iunderstand that the forefront of
this work is to help the client, but you have to make sure that
(28:44):
you yourself are also protected.
So, moral of the story I I feelso bad for this man.
I I hope that he is doing okay,because I know some people have
found him and are posting hisphoto and his information and
his family.
Like y'all have gotta chill.
That's like, that's fuckingcrazy.
(29:05):
And then she is in the videostalking about some y'all found
his family.
I wasn't even able to do that,huh girl, like oh my god, I'm
scared for him.
I'm really, I'm actually scaredfor him because, like she just
is not no shade, she's not welland like that sucks.
Like I'm not trying to speakbadly about her, speak badly
(29:28):
about mental health, because,like it is a real thing and
people do really struggle, butit's clear like she needs help.
I hope that she finds the helpthat she needs as well and I
hope that this man is okay andhe has done some sort of
documentation or something tomake sure that you know his
license is okay and he cancontinue to practice.
(29:49):
Because, like this is justreally really scary and it makes
me really scared for mentalhealth professionals because,
yes, the main priority is, youknow, the patient, but also, how
do we protect ourselves as well?
How do we make sure that youknow we don't lose our jobs or
our livelihood or our reputationisn't tarnished, while also
(30:09):
simultaneously trying to bethere to help.
You know our clients.
So I think best thing to do isto document, record, have
someone sit in if you can, justtry everything to make sure that
those professional boundariesare not crossed.
Those professional boundariesare not crossed.
(30:31):
And if that does not work, Iwould say in a transfer, because
at the end of the day, ifsomeone is having romantic
feelings for you, you can'treally be there for them in the
way that they need you to be,because the way that you are
supposed to be there for them isa professional way and if
they're crossing thoseprofessional boundaries, you
can't even really help them tothe best of your ability or to,
like, the extent that they needthat help.
(30:52):
So, yeah, just make sure as theprofessional, you're also
protecting yourself and againI'm speaking with to mental
health providers right now, butthis goes for anyone who's in
any sort of professionalrelationship like, just make
sure you are documenting andkeeping track of everything,
just to make.
It's always better to be safethan sorry.
(31:13):
That's basically what I'mtrying to say.
Like, always better to be safethan sorry.
So just make sure again, yes,you are there to help your
client, but just make sure youare protected and okay as well.
Thank you guys so much forwatching this episode.
I hope everyone's having a goodday, except for that orange
drink lady, and I will talk toyou in the next episode.
Peace and love.
Talk to you later.
The Napkin in Between, hostedby Daijné Jones, produced by
(31:35):
Daijné Jones, post-production byDaijné Jones, music by Sam
Champagne and graphics by IsmaVidal.
Don't forget to like andsubscribe.
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