September 7, 2025 • 34 mins
What do you do when a lifelong friendship is compromised by racism? In this raw and candid episode, I dive deep into the difficult terrain of friendship boundaries, specifically when it comes to race and respect.
The heart of this episode centers on a listener submission through my "What Would Daijné Do" segment. A young Black woman writes about her 13-year friendship with someone who consistently demonstrates problematic behavior: maintaining relationships with Trump supporters, defending racist comments, and using her as a token "Black friend" to prove she isn't racist herself.
This situation raises profound questions about friendship, loyalty, and self-respect. How many chances should we give people who don't see our full humanity? Is it our responsibility to educate friends on racism, or should they be doing that work themselves? When does the length of a friendship stop outweighing its quality?
I offer my unfiltered perspective: while friend breakups can be more painful than romantic ones, opening that door means creating space for relationships that truly honor who you are. Quality over quantity applies to friendships too – someone who allows racism to slide likely doesn't value you completely.
This conversation extends beyond this specific scenario to touch on universal questions about what we deserve from our closest relationships. Sometimes the hardest but most necessary thing is recognizing when someone's actions no longer align with their words of love and friendship.
Have your own situation you'd like advice on? Email thenapkininbetweenpodcast@gmail.com with your WWDD request!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Daijné (00:01):
Is this thing on?
Hello, hello, uh-oh, anotheryapper with a mic.
Hello everyone, and welcomeback to the Napkin In Between
podcast.
I am your host, Daijné Jones.
I hope everyone's been having agood day, except for that
(00:21):
orange drink lady, of course.
Personally, I feel like todayshould be considered a national
holiday because it's Beyonce'sbirthday and I feel like none of
us should have to go to work,except for the people who are
like I'm not a fan of Beyonce,but like girl me when I want to
be different and racist, so bad.
It's okay to admit that Beyonceis iconic and amazing and the
go and spectacular and fabulousand literally every fucking
(00:44):
thing ever imaginable in oneperson.
Like it's okay to admit that.
But people will be like I justdon't think she's that talented,
I don't get the hype.
Oh my god, you want to bedifferent.
So bad, and also a little bitracist.
But like it's fine, whatever, Iguess.
Do your thing.
Go to work then and leteveryone else have off for the
day.
But for the normal people likemyself and you all who
understand the greatness thatBeyonce is, I just am like so
(01:06):
happy to be alive at the sametime as Beyonce.
Like what a privilege.
You know what I mean.
Like God said, let's have heralive at the same time as
Beyonce so that she can witnessthe greatness that is Beyonce.
Like I, I'm just so gratefulfor her talent and like she
really is just so iconic and Ijust am just like damn to
(01:27):
witness this greatness.
It's just like crazy to me, likenot to be like one of those
crazy bitches like us I'm Iwould never say like I'm a stan
of anybody, because I feel liketo be a stan of someone.
You have to know like crazyinformation.
Like, yes, I know her birthday,but I don't know, like where
she was born, what hospital,what time, what time, what room
number, her blood type.
Like y'all be dragging it.
(01:49):
Y'all be dragging it Like stanculture is really weird to me.
Y'all be like, oh yeah, I'm afan of this person.
They'll be like, oh really,what's their blood type?
What was their kindergartenteacher's name?
I'm like yo, I said I was a fan, not a stalker.
Like goddamn, it's like they bein a secret competition.
Like how, like I literally hadsomeone one time I made a video
(02:11):
about Beyonce and how, likepeople try to compare her to
Taylor Swift and they're justlike incomparable because
they're not even on the samelevel, and a Swifty was in my
comments like I'm gonna DM you.
Let's have a trivia off, let'ssee who knows more about who.
Do I know more about Taylor?
Do you know more about Beyonce?
I bet you I know more aboutTaylor Flag on the play, because
(02:34):
what the fuck?
That's crazy.
Like I'm sure you do, because,unlike you, like I, have other
things to do than know everysingle fact about someone, that
whose music I enjoy, like I.
Like I have other things to dothan know every single fact
about someone, that whose musicI enjoy.
Like I just enjoy their musicand I think that they're great.
But I'm not like weird andobsessive.
My bad, sorry sorry for beingnormal, sorry, sorry.
(02:54):
Like what the fuck?
Like some of y'all arewackadoodles.
Let's calm down a little bit.
I don't know, I don't know.
Anyway, I would never say thatI'm like a stan of anyone, but I
just like really admire Beyonceand her hard work, her
dedication and I don't know.
I just am grateful toexperience her music.
I feel like like she, I wouldsay, is like the artist of my
(03:15):
lifetime and the one that Ireally grew up with.
But I also like have thatlittle overlap of like her and
Michael Jackson.
You know, because I can remember.
I can vividly remember likehearing that Michael Jackson had
passed away.
I was at home with my grandmaand I was raised by my grandma.
So if anybody knows anythingabout grandmas, like all they
watch are judge shows and thenews, and that's like that's the
(03:39):
type of grandma that I had.
Like in the mornings we wouldwatch all the judge shows and
then at night it was news andthen right before the bed she
would throw on um walker, texasranger, for a little razzle
dazzle.
But I remember we were watchingthe evening news and it was
like breaking news.
Michael Jackson, you know,passed away or whatever.
And I was like my jaw, like Iwas shocked and I didn't believe
(04:01):
it at first, and my grandmadidn't either.
She's like this isn't real.
And she's like calling all ofher friends, like did you guys
see the news?
Did you hear, is it true?
And that at that time, like Ididn't have a phone, so like we
couldn't like google or anythinglike that, it was literally
just the news.
So she's calling around, we'retrying to figure out if it's
real or not and then, like, wefigure out that it's true, and I
just remember being like damn,like that's crazy.
(04:22):
Like I feel like that was one ofmy first like major heartbreaks
is like finding out thatmichael jackson had passed away.
I've talked about this before.
My grandma was extremelychristian and you know we
weren't allowed to listen tosecular worldly music or
anything like that.
But like some of the artiststhat like she just like couldn't
keep us away from, is likebeyonce, michael jackson, like
the big names you know what Imean.
So I can remember like hearingmichael jackson and jackson five
(04:44):
, like that was the firstcelebrity death that I feel like
really hit me or like even thatI remember I was like 13 or 14
when he passed away and then, alittle bit after, you know, he
had passed away, they releasedthat we game.
So anybody know what I'mtalking about the michael
jackson experience, the we gamewhere you could dance to his
(05:05):
songs.
Oh my god, that was my shit.
Oh, that was so my god.
Core memory unlocked.
I just remembered that was likethe one thing.
Like when my cousins would comeover to my grandma's house,
first thing we would do is playthe michael jackson experience
game.
Like I.
I genuinely think that if, likeI had to.
Like if somebody had a gun tomy head and was like, do all
these dances or I'm gonna pullthe trigger, I think I could
(05:27):
save my own life, like I couldremember them to this day.
I haven't played that inprobably 10 plus years at this
point, but I swear I could.
I could pull those like itwould be muscle memory.
I would immediately be able todo those dances.
But it's just so cool, I think,to experience such greatness
and such talent from people likeMichael Jackson and Beyonce,
(05:49):
like uh, just so grateful for,for talented people and their
music and their hard work andjust everything.
So, yeah, I feel like that'sbeen the peak of my week is just
being like damn, like I I getto experience Beyonce, beyonce,
like to this day, cowboy Carter,I I I'm not really one to go
(06:10):
back and watch concert videos,like at concerts, like I'm I'm
videotaping, of course,videotaping.
How old am I?
I'm recording, you know, clipsor whatever like of songs and
everything, but I never reallygo back and watch them.
They just kind of sit in myphone.
I have gone back and re-watchedthe things that I recorded from
(06:31):
the Cowboy Carter tour.
Don't ask me how many times?
How many times have I watchedit?
Yes, like I, literally I'm justlike oh, I just can't believe
that.
Like I remember, when theconcert started, talia, my
roommate, looked at me and shegoes, we're breathing the same
air as Beyonce right now and Iwas just like like, oh my God,
(06:52):
it was just a crazy time and itwas so fun and I hope she goes
on tour for Act 3.
She better go on tour, ain't nohope.
Girl, get on the road, get onyour horse and gallop across
everything.
Get on the road, get on yourhorse and gallop across
everything.
And I will be overseas for actthree because the way she be
cutting up in Paris, oh yes, Iwill be in Paris for act three.
(07:15):
What's that song?
Y'all know what I'm talkingabout.
In Paris, me, they was talkingabout me for act three because I
will be in Paris.
Anyway, at the time that thisvideo comes out, like I'm
filming this on beyonce'sbirthday, but it'll come out a
couple days after, but happybirthday to the icon that is
beyonce.
And shout out tina knowles forthe birth of beyonce.
(07:38):
Like girl, you did your biggestone, your biggest one, and I'm
where.
Trust the world, especially thepeople who are like I'm not a
beyonce fan, but we're all very,very grateful for huge fan of
your work.
Huge fan of your work.
Please tell me the peak of yourweek, something that made you
smile, kept you grounded, keptyou sane in the chaos of the
(07:58):
world.
Segueing into what we're gonnatalk about today, I received a
wwdd request.
If you're unfamiliar with whatthat is, I said in one of the
earlier episodes that I wantedto do this thing called WWDD,
which stands for what wouldDejane do.
This is where you guys send meyour stories, your situations,
anything that you need advice on, and I tell you what I would do
in that situation.
(08:19):
I received one earlier todayand I wanted to read through it
and give my advice on what Iwould do.
The sender has asked to beanonymous so, for the sake of
this story, I'm going to nameher Savannah.
I don't know, just came off thetop of my head.
Okay, so she writes hey,dejanay, my name is Savannah and
I would like to keep my nameprivate, if that's okay.
(08:39):
Got you Savannah, no worries.
I want to start off by saying Ireally enjoy your podcast and
TikTok content.
You always have a reallyinteresting insight on pop
culture and politics.
I really enjoyed your seriesduring Black History Month where
you told lesser known storiesor talked about lesser known
people who impacted Blackhistory.
I'm such a huge fan of yoursense of humor.
Thanks, savannah, I love that.
(09:00):
I love literally like that is.
The entire point of all of mycontent is just to try to
educate, give my opinions andmake y'all laugh, so I
appreciate that.
Thank you so much.
I'm having a problem with asuper close best friend of mine
and I don't really know where tostart, so I guess I'll start
from the beginning.
We have been best friends sincethird grade and we are now 21.
I cannot imagine not beingfriends with her, since that is
(09:22):
12 years of my life.
I love her and I know she lovesme.
My family knows and loves herand vice versa.
However, some things have beencoming to my attention that
raise red flags.
I'm black and she is half white, half mexican and white passing
.
We both went to elementaryschool in the suburbs of a
southern state.
She has lived there ever since.
I have moved since then, but wesee each other a few times a
year and keep up over the phone.
(09:44):
The main thing I cannot get overis this she told me in december
of 2024 that her pastsituationship of three years
I'll call him ross is a trumpsupporter.
I've always got a bad vibe fromhim for a few reasons.
Valid trump supporter.
Um, he was flaky and unreliableto start, but also, I feel like
, didn't see me as a full person.
Maybe a good way to describe itis that he always seemed like
(10:06):
he was a fan of mine and I was a.
I'm literally just a girl.
We're all just girls, babe.
Ooh, ooh, okay.
His game pigeon profile was ablack person and ross asked her
a few years ago do you know whatblack people smell like?
(10:27):
And he said chalk or something.
What racist people are sofucking just like, uncreative,
like what does that even mean?
I don't even anyway, in thatmoment she was trying to
remember what I smelled like,which made me uncomfy.
Oh, that's not what the fuck.
Like she should haveimmediately corrected him.
Or like told him.
(10:48):
Like that was weird.
One of my favorite things to dois like weaponized incompetence
.
Like if somebody says somethingwith racial undertones, I'll be
like can you explain that to me?
Like I don't understand whatthat means.
And then they get uncomfortableand it's like yeah, bitch now.
We're both uncomfortable youknow what I mean.
Like the fact that she wastrying to remember what you
smelled like is odd, very odd.
(11:11):
I would have preferred her toshut down that conversation
valid, say that it wasinappropriate and weird, or stop
talking to him altogether,since he is obviously racist.
She is not a trump supporter.
She voted for kamala and hasalways said, since like 2020,
that she could never date atrump supporter, slash someone
who was racist.
So it did throw me off a littlebit when she told me he was a
Trump supporter, but at the sametime, he is a white man from
(11:31):
the south.
So that was my bad for notthinking that one through.
Not your bad at all.
Not your bad at all.
First and foremost, she is not aTrump supporter, but she's
comfortable around trumpsupporters, which is still an
issue in and of itself, becauseI feel like it enables that
behavior.
Like.
(11:51):
Personally, I feel like trumpsupporters should be shamed,
like we should be pointing andbooing at them every chance that
we get.
Anytime someone tells you I'm atrump supporter, throw tomatoes
immediately.
So the fact that she's been inthis situationship for three
years she's she's laying thatthing by the riverside, which is
still very, very odd like that.
(12:12):
That should be a deal breakerfor people, in my opinion,
because it's like I fullybelieve that trump supporters do
not see people who are notwhite as human like they.
They see us as black or mexicanor latino, like whatever,
before they even recognize us ashuman.
So the fact that she iscomfortable around him, I think,
(12:32):
says a lot about about her.
Like yes, I see that you saidthat she voted for kamala and
she says since 2020 that shewould never date a trump
supporter.
But it's like you know what Imean.
Like, anyway, let's keep going.
Now she has another situationship.
Oh, so she broke up with thistrump supporter man.
(12:52):
Okay, period, it took her aminute, but, um, okay, um, now
she has another situation ship,who I will call walter, because
that makes me laugh.
On top of being a terribleperson to be In a relationship
with.
She told me that Walter is afrat boy who goes to her college
and comes from money.
He is only 22 or 23 and drivesa Tesla, I think, has a Rolex,
(13:14):
shops at Gucci, etc.
Once, when they were outdrinking, walter asked her who
she thinks he voted for and shesaid I'm not an idiot, you're a
white man who goes to SouthernConservative College.
You voted for Trump and then hetold her that they don't have
to talk about it.
Wrong answer, wrong answer,wrong answer.
Red flag, woo, woo, woo, sirens, anytime somebody tells me that
they don't want to talk aboutpolitics or who, they voted for,
(13:35):
red fucking flag, in my opinion.
She told me Walter's familysupports Trump, but from one
picture you can tell that hedoes as well.
He once referred to one of herfriends of color by their race,
unnecessarily, and has asked herif she had ever been with a
black man before.
She answered I haven't beenwith a black man before, but
they come up to me all the time.
What's her issue?
Sorry, I know this is yourfriend, so I'm trying to like be
(13:57):
respectful, but like these arejust very odd responses and I'm
not fucking with them, again,not an optimal response.
Okay, so you get it.
Okay, period, we're on the samepage.
This is when I thought to tellher that Walter's comments were
racist.
Like many white women do, shedefended him a little bit by
saying, as if I would care aboutthe explanation he might not
have known her friend's name andhe asked that question because,
(14:20):
at a club once, she had postedto her snapchat story a picture
with the nearest random guy.
He was black and she asked himto pretend to be a frat boy and
her boyfriend to make walterjealous.
She said that.
She sees what I'm saying,though, and she sees where I'm
coming from.
I do not believe an explanationmatters, though.
A non-racist person would notsupport trump, casually refer to
someone by their race like that, or ask if she has slept with a
black man period, exactly like.
(14:44):
Be serious, at least.
Maybe you're not a trumpsupporter, but you're definitely
like racist.
Because like what?
Why does it?
Why does any of that matter?
Why does anyone before you thatshe may have been with matter?
Why are you referring to peopleby just their race?
Like it's?
It's odd, it's very odd.
I wonder how he would refer tome or how he would treat me if
we were to ever meet.
(15:05):
I feel like a friend shouldnever allow a man to treat their
friends the way I know he wouldtreat me.
I am also tired of white womendefending white men like this,
while insisting that they arenot racist because they voted
for kamala or have black friends.
Yeah, both of those are a copout for sure.
Like I, like I the I have blackfriends thing, like you can
have black friends and still beracist.
(15:25):
You could have voted for kamalaharris and still be racist.
Like that doesn't make you notracist.
Like, personally, I feel likevoting for kamala harris given
the alternative bare fuckingminimum, and having black
friends and saying that you'renot racist, I feel like it's
like a like you have blackfriends so that you can use them
to say that you're not racist,which is tokenizing black people
(15:46):
, which is racism.
So, yeah, neither one of thosethings makes you not racist.
You're absolutely right.
I get that to a degree.
White men and women aresocialized to act this way to
keep white supremacy afloat.
But maybe I should not befriends with her if she is going
to partake in that.
In case you're an audiolistener, savannah, I'm shaking
my head.
Yes, like you, I I wouldn't.
(16:08):
Honestly, being a trumpsupporter, being comfortable
around trump supporters oranyone who says anything racist,
is an automatic deal breakerfor me, because I feel like, on
some level, if you arecomfortable being around people
like that, that tells me thatyou agree with it.
You know what I mean.
Like you have to feel that acertain way about me and other
people of color or black peopleas well, and I understand like
(16:28):
people will say oh, you couldhave differences with your
friends, yeah, we can disagreeabout pizza toppings, but not
like if my life matters you knowwhat I mean.
Like that's a little bit of adisagreement that I feel like we
shouldn't be having.
If we're friends, maybe that'sjust me, her friends maybe
that's just me, since she seemsto gravitate towards trump
supporting men.
Being close friends with hermight mean I will have to be
around those people and I do notwant to be around people who
voted my other people's rightsaway.
(16:51):
But it should be about morethan just me because, for
example, I would not date orentertain someone homophobic,
not just because I have lgbtqplus friends and I do not want
to date someone who hates myfriends and votes their rights
away.
But I also find homophobia to beoverall unattractive and it
gives me the ick for sure.
I feel like any of it.
Like because homophobia, racism, all of that is just like so
(17:13):
stupid to me.
Like when you genuinely thinkabout it.
Like you're mad because my skinis darker or you're mad because
of what I decided to do in mybed, who bends me over in my
free time.
That doesn't seem ridiculous asfuck to you.
Like that doesn't seem likesuch a stupid way to live.
Like how are you mad and youhate me because of how I live my
life or because I was bornblack?
(17:35):
That's just.
It's unattracted to me becauseit's not smart.
Like I am very attracted topeople who are intelligent and
smart and like have common senseand use their fucking brains,
and for people who are racist,homophobic, anything like that
like it's just unattractive tome because it just tells me that
you're not smart.
I feel like for us to continueour friendship, that would have
to be her mindset slash dealbreaker, and it's clearly not.
(17:57):
This goes for me and her.
But I feel like the people youchoose to be in your life says a
lot about you and what you'rewilling to tolerate.
Absolutely I do not want tomake someone choose between me
and their significant others butat the same time, if that is
the type of man she chooses,maybe I cannot keep choosing her
as a friend.
I feel like and I'm gonna holdyour hand, no napkin while I say
this you're choosing her as afriend, but I don't feel like
(18:20):
she's fully choosing you,because if she genuinely was
choosing you, then she wouldn'tbe around people like you said,
who condone that behavior, whowho support trump, who are
racist, who are homophobic, whoare anything like being around
those people and like that.
Not being being a deal breakerlets me know to some extent that
(18:40):
you're okay with those things.
And if you're okay with thosethings, as a black person like I
can't be around you.
That you're okay with thosethings.
And if you're okay with thosethings, as a black person like I
can't be around you becauseyou're okay with someone
genuinely putting my life indanger so you're not even really
a friend.
You see what I'm saying like afriend of mine, a genuine friend
of mine, would never put mylife in danger, would never see
me as less of a human, wouldnever be around someone who sees
(19:04):
me as less of a human.
This is not an exhaustive list,but here are other few little
things, littles in quotes, thatbother me.
Let's see if they're actuallylittle, because I have a feeling
maybe they're not Okay.
One time me and my friend werehanging out and for some reason
she had my phone and on my phonescreen one of my widgets showed
different pictures from mycamera roll.
One of the pictures that cameup was a picture of a younger
(19:25):
step cousin who was white.
My friend saw it and said it'sweird, you just have a picture
of a white kid on your phone.
I laughed kind of because I wasuncomfy and said that's my
little cousin.
Then she said I don'tcomprehend that At this point.
They have been in my life fortwo years and my friend knows
this, knows of them and has seenpictures of them before.
She can never wrap her mindaround how I am related to a
fully white person, even thoughit is pretty simple and I have
(19:47):
told her this we are stepcousins and obviously not
related by blood.
My aunt married a white man andhe has kids from a previous
marriage.
Literally the childrenthemselves understand it, but
she does not.
Does she not understand it oris she just like, not wanting to
understand it?
You know she's acting like I amtrying to tell her that two
black people in my film gavebirth to a fully white person.
(20:08):
She uses the word ghetto a lot.
Once, when drunk, she touchedmy face while wearing a silver
costume glove and got some of myfoundation on her glove.
When she realized my makeup wason her glove, she said no.
Then she pulled out her phoneand started making a video for
her snapchat story and says guys, never be friends with a person
(20:28):
of color, because I justtouched your face and now my
glove is black.
Hello, I would have ended therelationship, the friendship
with her right then and there.
I know it can be difficultbecause you guys have been
friends for a very long time.
But what?
Like?
That's odd.
Ew, yeah, no, uh-uh, likethat's just.
(20:50):
It's like she's using you as,like a prop.
That's what this feels like tome.
It's like, oh, I'm friends withthis, this black person, so I
can say these things.
She's definitely giving the Ihave black friends trope.
You know what I mean.
Trope isn't the word I waslooking for, but I can't think
of another word because, like,my flowers are a little bit
gassed from reading that.
(21:10):
Holy fuck, what the fuck?
Once, when she was young, shesaid the f?
Slur at least four times andthen, when she was sober, she
claimed it was her first timesaying it.
Okay, that doesn't.
Like, was that her excuse forsaying it?
Like, oh, I've never said thatbefore.
Like that's not an excuse, thatdoesn't make it okay.
(21:31):
She was taking a race, genderand ethnic studies class and she
had a hard time with that class.
She said she sometimes skippedit because she felt like she did
not need it and that it was forthe racist conservative kids at
her college.
Aka, not her, she believes.
No, she should have been frontand center for the class taking
notes the whole class, like girl.
If anybody needed this class itwas her.
(21:52):
The professor had said somethingabout all white people being
racist to a degree or support,slash, benefit from white
supremacy, and she was like Iknow this is true for most
people at the school, but I amnot racist.
I thought about telling theprofessor that I have a best
friend who I have been friendswith since third grade, and she
is black.
Trust me, I'm not racist.
See, this is what I'm saying.
Like she's using you as like aprop, as a token, like I can't
(22:14):
be racist because I have blackfriends and that's just simply
not true.
Simply not true.
Literally anybody can be racistand most people, whether they
realize it or not, are racistbecause racism is embedded into
our society like this is why Ialways say you can't just say
you're not racist.
You have to be anti racist orelse you will be racist.
Because it's so.
It's literally woven into thefabric of, like the fucking
(22:35):
american flag.
Like it's, it's everywhere.
It's literally everywhere.
She believes that she would notbe friends with me if she was
racist.
To be honest, it seems like sheis very worried about being
called racist instead of lookingat her actual thoughts, words
and if she was racist, to behonest, it seems like she is
very worried about being calledracist instead of looking at her
actual thoughts, words andactions.
She was worried about defendingherself and not about learning.
It was very much giving.
I'm not racist.
I have a black friend, which isnot a reason that someone is not
racist, but she does not thinkso.
(22:56):
Evidently.
I know the right thing to do ismaybe distance myself or maybe
not be friends with her, but itis really hard.
I know I said a lot of honestand not so great things about
her, but she is one of my bestfriends and we have a lot of
great memories and she has beenin my life for 13 years.
Part of me wants to keep givingher chances and I will be more
assertive with my boundaries andcall things out that bother me.
For example, the next time sheuses the word ghetto, I will
(23:17):
talk to her about it.
Another part of me wantsfriends who already got it
without me having to completelyexplain it, and that's fair.
Like we're all grown, we allhave access to the internet.
Like we should all be educatingourselves.
So I understand that as well.
If I do distance myself becauseof my lack of communication
with this problem, it will feelsudden to everyone else.
My parents are going to askquestions, my friend herself is
(23:37):
going to ask questions about whyI'm distancing myself from her.
Then I might have to explainmyself, which will feel
overwhelming and scary, etc.
I would appreciate your inputand I would love to know what
you would do.
Thanks so much for reading this.
Sorry, this was so long.
It is definitely the longestemail I have ever written.
If it's too long to read on thepodcast, I would still
appreciate your advice via email.
Hope you're having a great day,savannah.
(23:58):
Okay, savvy girl, not too longto read.
I appreciate you know all theinformation you gave me because
that helps me form my opinionbetter.
Of course, the more informationI know, the more I can be
helpful in the situation.
Personally, I feel like to somedegree, you might already know
(24:19):
what you have to do Very, veryhard thing to do.
Of course, you guys have beenfriends for a very long time, so
I can understand why you knowyou might want to try to assert
yourself more or give her morechances and try to teach her
essentially how to not be racist.
On the other hand, I feel likegiving someone chances, like
(24:43):
giving someone chance afterchance after chance to be better
, it kind of iscounterproductive in a way,
because the more chances yougive somebody, the more leeway
you give them, the more you'rekind of showing them what you
will put up with.
You know what I mean, and so Ican understand wanting to give
her more chances and trying tobe more assertive and trying to
(25:06):
teach her.
But it doesn't seem like, atleast from the information that
I've gotten, especially with theclass that she took and like
her not feeling like she neededthe class.
I don't know that she evenreally wants to be educated.
I don't know that she feelslike she needs to be educated or
like she's doing anything wrong, and so it's.
(25:27):
I feel like it's it's an evenharder situation because it does
also kind of give that shemight be a little male-centered.
Um, and male-centered friendsby themselves are just very
dangerous.
But throw a male-centeredfriend in who is racist and also
has a black friend, that couldbe an extremely dangerous
(25:50):
situation for you, because itdoesn't seem like she would put
you first in a situation, firstbecause, again, I feel like
she's male-centered, but alsobecause she kind of not even
kind of she does let racismslide.
So I think that this is a verytricky situation.
Again, given the longevity ofyour friendship and you know
your family's close to her,you're probably close to her
(26:12):
family.
But if it were me, I would.
I would probably drop her as afriend.
I I would maybe try to educateher and see if she would even be
open to it, but I don't.
I don't know from theinformation that you've given me
that she would be, and I alsodon't think that it's your job
to teach her to not be racist.
I feel like if she, as she says,she has black friends, then she
(26:34):
should, should be doing thatwork herself.
But it's not really giving thatshe's doing that work and it's
not giving that that work iseven a priority for her and the
fact that that's not a priorityfor her?
It doesn't seem to be apriority for her, given the
state of the world right now.
I just feel like that's a majorred flag.
She has privilege.
You said that she's half white,half Mexican and white passing,
(26:56):
so she could be using thatprivilege that she has to try to
educate herself so that shecould also educate others.
But it's like she's using herprivilege for her advantage,
which is what most maybe notmost, no, most check the exit
polls Most.
Why people do is that they usetheir privilege to benefit
(27:18):
themselves and like they don'tcare about other people, even
people like in their families orclose friends.
You know what I mean.
So what would Dejanae do?
Final word of advice I probablywould drop her faster than JLo
got dropped by her label, herfaster than jlo got dropped by
her label.
But if you're feeling generousand you're feeling like you know
you want to do some work andeducate her, you could give it a
(27:41):
try.
You could try and be moreassertive.
I will say I've had friends fora very long time that I've had
to cut off as well, becausewe're just I being a trump
supporter or being a trumpsupporter adjacent is an
automatic deal breaker for mebecause I I don't want to
educate you.
I don't feel like I should haveto.
I feel like if you consider meyour friend, knowing that I am a
black woman, you should beeducating yourself.
(28:02):
You know what I mean.
So it would be a deal breakerfor me and I will say that you
know, when you finally get ridof people in your life who don't
value you as a person, it doesopen doors for people who will
truly value you to come in.
So I understand that.
You know you guys have thelongevity and the time of your
friendship on your side and Ican understand why you're using
(28:24):
that, or might see that, as areason to want to continue to be
friends with her.
You guys have been friends fora very long time.
But quality over quantity.
You know what I mean.
Like the amount of time doesn'tmatter so much if the quality
of the friendship isn't the bestand you could meet someone
tomorrow who is a better friendthan this girl that you've known
(28:45):
for the majority of your lifeyou know what I mean who is
going to genuinely see you andother people as people and not
be around people who would voteyour rights away or do any sort
of crazy thing to you or putyour life in danger or anything
like that.
So I understand.
You know, with the amount oftime that you guys have been
(29:05):
friends, it's hard.
I'm not saying that it's easy,because it's definitely not.
But I will say that you, ifsomeone is not truly valuing you
as a person, the best thingthat you can do for yourself and
it'll take time for you to youknow heal and you know you'll
mourn that friendship.
I feel like the worst breakupsI've ever had are friend
(29:27):
breakups.
They're harder than any manI've ever broken up with.
Literally like boys, that's aboy, I'll be fine.
When it's your, your girlfriend, like that hurts, that hurts a
lot more.
You know what I mean, but Iwill say that you know, once you
stop giving so much energy torelationships and friendships or
(29:47):
whatever that don't serve youin the way that you know you're
not getting things reciprocatedback or people are not even
looking at you as a fuckinghuman, you do open the doors for
other people to come in and youcan refocus your energy towards
people who see you as a humanand people that you don't have
to teach or people that youdon't have to walk through how
to not be racist or not excuseracism.
(30:10):
You know what I mean.
So said all that to say sorry,I'm long-winded.
That's why your email peoplesending me long emails never
bothers me.
I'm long-winded myself, so Iget it.
But final thoughts of what Iwould do I would drop her
immediately, as hard as it wouldbe.
It would be very hard.
I'm not saying that this iseasy.
It's gonna be difficult.
So if you feel like that isprobably too difficult for you
(30:31):
right now and you want to tryand you know be more assertive
and you have the time and theability to teach her, do that.
If you feel like it would behelpful, you feel like you could
get somewhere, I would say,maybe try, but understand that
if you're going to try that,don't exhaust yourself.
You know what I mean.
Like try for a little bit.
(30:52):
And if you're saying like, yeah,she's just not getting it, you
don't have to keep giving peoplechances to play in your face.
When someone shows you who theyare, believe them.
Don't let someone play in yourface and and use you as some
sort of like token.
Look, I have black friends, Ican't be racist.
Don't put yourself in thosesituations.
(31:12):
I promise you there are peopleout there who you will not have
to teach that you are deservingof basic human decency and
respect.
I promise you, even from likethe little list that you gave me
by the way, none of the thingson that list were little Babe.
Those are big, big things forme, that would you know.
Those are red flags, but I canunderstand.
(31:34):
Like you know her more than Ido.
You guys have been friends fora much longer time, so basically
, what I'm saying is IDK, thoughyou know what I mean.
Anytime I give advice, I'm likethis is what I would do, but
like it's your life, take ithowever much you want to take,
(31:56):
take that and what you don'twant to take, like you know what
I mean, it's your life.
But I just feel like youdeserve better friends.
You deserve someone that youdon't have to teach.
But if you feel like you wantto teach, then you could do that
too.
But personally me, I would dropher.
But anyway, that's just me,though that's my advice.
I would drop her.
But if you feel like you want totry and you know you can be
more assertive and you can standup for yourself, by all means
(32:17):
do that as well, because I mean,even if she doesn't learn from
it, you could learn from it andand learn how to, you know, step
into your voice even more,which is always a good thing as
well.
I'm trying to find the silverlining and all this.
You feel me, um.
So yeah, if you feel like thisis a good time for you to to
test out being more assertivefor yourself and using your
(32:38):
voice and standing up foryourself and black people and
and other marginalized groups,then you should do that.
But also, don't don't give hertoo much leeway.
You know what I mean.
Like she's already, in myopinion, testing the water is a
little bit too much.
Like she's already got herwhole foot in the water.
Don't let her do a cannonballin the water and play in your
(32:58):
face too much.
You know what I mean.
So, at the end of the day, Idon't feel like anybody should
have to teach anybody anything.
We all have access to theinternet.
We all are able to teachourselves, but if you feel like
that's something that you wannado, by all means, I feel like
you should do that.
So I hope this is helpful.
Thank you so much for yoursubmission.
(33:18):
If anybody else has a situation, needs advice, whatever it is,
email me at the napkin inbetween podcast at gmailcom and
I will give you my advice inwhat Desjane would do in that
situation.
I do read the emails for thefirst time on the pod because I
want to give my honest, raw,real reaction.
So if you want to be anonymous,totally fine, just let me know
somewhere in the email,preferably at the top, so I know
that before I get into theemail.
(33:39):
Savannah, thank you so much foryour submission.
I do not take it lightly thatany of you are here listening,
watching and even wanting myadvice like that's huge for me
and it means so much to me.
So I really appreciate yoursubmission.
Thank you, and I hope theadvice was helpful.
Thank you, guys.
So much for tuning in totoday's episode.
I hope everyone's having a goodday, except for that orange
drink lady, and I will talk toyou in the next episode.
Peace and love.
Talk to you later.
(34:00):
The Napkin in Between, hostedby Daijné Jones, produced by
Daijné Jones, post-production byDaijné Jones, music by Sam
Champagne and graphics by IsmaVidal.
Don't forget to like.
Is this thing on?
Hello, hello, uh-oh, anotheryapper with a mic.
Hello everyone, and welcomeback to the Napkin In Between
podcast.
I am your host, Daijné Jones.
I hope everyone's been having agood day, except for that
(00:21):
orange drink lady, of course.
Personally, I feel like todayshould be considered a national
holiday because it's Beyonce'sbirthday and I feel like none of
us should have to go to work,except for the people who are
like I'm not a fan of Beyonce,but like girl me when I want to
be different and racist, so bad.
It's okay to admit that Beyonceis iconic and amazing and the
go and spectacular and fabulousand literally every fucking
(00:44):
thing ever imaginable in oneperson.
Like it's okay to admit that.
But people will be like I justdon't think she's that talented,
I don't get the hype.
Oh my god, you want to bedifferent.
So bad, and also a little bitracist.
But like it's fine, whatever, Iguess.
Do your thing.
Go to work then and leteveryone else have off for the
day.
But for the normal people likemyself and you all who
understand the greatness thatBeyonce is, I just am like so
(01:06):
happy to be alive at the sametime as Beyonce.
Like what a privilege.
You know what I mean.
Like God said, let's have heralive at the same time as
Beyonce so that she can witnessthe greatness that is Beyonce.
Like I, I'm just so gratefulfor her talent and like she
really is just so iconic and Ijust am just like damn to
(01:27):
witness this greatness.
It's just like crazy to me, likenot to be like one of those
crazy bitches like us I'm Iwould never say like I'm a stan
of anybody, because I feel liketo be a stan of someone.
You have to know like crazyinformation.
Like, yes, I know her birthday,but I don't know, like where
she was born, what hospital,what time, what time, what room
number, her blood type.
Like y'all be dragging it.
(01:49):
Y'all be dragging it Like stanculture is really weird to me.
Y'all be like, oh yeah, I'm afan of this person.
They'll be like, oh really,what's their blood type?
What was their kindergartenteacher's name?
I'm like yo, I said I was a fan, not a stalker.
Like goddamn, it's like they bein a secret competition.
Like how, like I literally hadsomeone one time I made a video
(02:11):
about Beyonce and how, likepeople try to compare her to
Taylor Swift and they're justlike incomparable because
they're not even on the samelevel, and a Swifty was in my
comments like I'm gonna DM you.
Let's have a trivia off, let'ssee who knows more about who.
Do I know more about Taylor?
Do you know more about Beyonce?
I bet you I know more aboutTaylor Flag on the play, because
(02:34):
what the fuck?
That's crazy.
Like I'm sure you do, because,unlike you, like I, have other
things to do than know everysingle fact about someone, that
whose music I enjoy, like I.
Like I have other things to dothan know every single fact
about someone, that whose musicI enjoy.
Like I just enjoy their musicand I think that they're great.
But I'm not like weird andobsessive.
My bad, sorry sorry for beingnormal, sorry, sorry.
(02:54):
Like what the fuck?
Like some of y'all arewackadoodles.
Let's calm down a little bit.
I don't know, I don't know.
Anyway, I would never say thatI'm like a stan of anyone, but I
just like really admire Beyonceand her hard work, her
dedication and I don't know.
I just am grateful toexperience her music.
I feel like like she, I wouldsay, is like the artist of my
(03:15):
lifetime and the one that Ireally grew up with.
But I also like have thatlittle overlap of like her and
Michael Jackson.
You know, because I can remember.
I can vividly remember likehearing that Michael Jackson had
passed away.
I was at home with my grandmaand I was raised by my grandma.
So if anybody knows anythingabout grandmas, like all they
watch are judge shows and thenews, and that's like that's the
(03:39):
type of grandma that I had.
Like in the mornings we wouldwatch all the judge shows and
then at night it was news andthen right before the bed she
would throw on um walker, texasranger, for a little razzle
dazzle.
But I remember we were watchingthe evening news and it was
like breaking news.
Michael Jackson, you know,passed away or whatever.
And I was like my jaw, like Iwas shocked and I didn't believe
(04:01):
it at first, and my grandmadidn't either.
She's like this isn't real.
And she's like calling all ofher friends, like did you guys
see the news?
Did you hear, is it true?
And that at that time, like Ididn't have a phone, so like we
couldn't like google or anythinglike that, it was literally
just the news.
So she's calling around, we'retrying to figure out if it's
real or not and then, like, wefigure out that it's true, and I
just remember being like damn,like that's crazy.
(04:22):
Like I feel like that was one ofmy first like major heartbreaks
is like finding out thatmichael jackson had passed away.
I've talked about this before.
My grandma was extremelychristian and you know we
weren't allowed to listen tosecular worldly music or
anything like that.
But like some of the artiststhat like she just like couldn't
keep us away from, is likebeyonce, michael jackson, like
the big names you know what Imean.
So I can remember like hearingmichael jackson and jackson five
(04:44):
, like that was the firstcelebrity death that I feel like
really hit me or like even thatI remember I was like 13 or 14
when he passed away and then, alittle bit after, you know, he
had passed away, they releasedthat we game.
So anybody know what I'mtalking about the michael
jackson experience, the we gamewhere you could dance to his
(05:05):
songs.
Oh my god, that was my shit.
Oh, that was so my god.
Core memory unlocked.
I just remembered that was likethe one thing.
Like when my cousins would comeover to my grandma's house,
first thing we would do is playthe michael jackson experience
game.
Like I.
I genuinely think that if, likeI had to.
Like if somebody had a gun tomy head and was like, do all
these dances or I'm gonna pullthe trigger, I think I could
(05:27):
save my own life, like I couldremember them to this day.
I haven't played that inprobably 10 plus years at this
point, but I swear I could.
I could pull those like itwould be muscle memory.
I would immediately be able todo those dances.
But it's just so cool, I think,to experience such greatness
and such talent from people likeMichael Jackson and Beyonce,
(05:49):
like uh, just so grateful for,for talented people and their
music and their hard work andjust everything.
So, yeah, I feel like that'sbeen the peak of my week is just
being like damn, like I I getto experience Beyonce, beyonce,
like to this day, cowboy Carter,I I I'm not really one to go
(06:10):
back and watch concert videos,like at concerts, like I'm I'm
videotaping, of course,videotaping.
How old am I?
I'm recording, you know, clipsor whatever like of songs and
everything, but I never reallygo back and watch them.
They just kind of sit in myphone.
I have gone back and re-watchedthe things that I recorded from
(06:31):
the Cowboy Carter tour.
Don't ask me how many times?
How many times have I watchedit?
Yes, like I, literally I'm justlike oh, I just can't believe
that.
Like I remember, when theconcert started, talia, my
roommate, looked at me and shegoes, we're breathing the same
air as Beyonce right now and Iwas just like like, oh my God,
(06:52):
it was just a crazy time and itwas so fun and I hope she goes
on tour for Act 3.
She better go on tour, ain't nohope.
Girl, get on the road, get onyour horse and gallop across
everything.
Get on the road, get on yourhorse and gallop across
everything.
And I will be overseas for actthree because the way she be
cutting up in Paris, oh yes, Iwill be in Paris for act three.
(07:15):
What's that song?
Y'all know what I'm talkingabout.
In Paris, me, they was talkingabout me for act three because I
will be in Paris.
Anyway, at the time that thisvideo comes out, like I'm
filming this on beyonce'sbirthday, but it'll come out a
couple days after, but happybirthday to the icon that is
beyonce.
And shout out tina knowles forthe birth of beyonce.
(07:38):
Like girl, you did your biggestone, your biggest one, and I'm
where.
Trust the world, especially thepeople who are like I'm not a
beyonce fan, but we're all very,very grateful for huge fan of
your work.
Huge fan of your work.
Please tell me the peak of yourweek, something that made you
smile, kept you grounded, keptyou sane in the chaos of the
(07:58):
world.
Segueing into what we're gonnatalk about today, I received a
wwdd request.
If you're unfamiliar with whatthat is, I said in one of the
earlier episodes that I wantedto do this thing called WWDD,
which stands for what wouldDejane do.
This is where you guys send meyour stories, your situations,
anything that you need advice on, and I tell you what I would do
in that situation.
(08:19):
I received one earlier todayand I wanted to read through it
and give my advice on what Iwould do.
The sender has asked to beanonymous so, for the sake of
this story, I'm going to nameher Savannah.
I don't know, just came off thetop of my head.
Okay, so she writes hey,dejanay, my name is Savannah and
I would like to keep my nameprivate, if that's okay.
(08:39):
Got you Savannah, no worries.
I want to start off by saying Ireally enjoy your podcast and
TikTok content.
You always have a reallyinteresting insight on pop
culture and politics.
I really enjoyed your seriesduring Black History Month where
you told lesser known storiesor talked about lesser known
people who impacted Blackhistory.
I'm such a huge fan of yoursense of humor.
Thanks, savannah, I love that.
(09:00):
I love literally like that is.
The entire point of all of mycontent is just to try to
educate, give my opinions andmake y'all laugh, so I
appreciate that.
Thank you so much.
I'm having a problem with asuper close best friend of mine
and I don't really know where tostart, so I guess I'll start
from the beginning.
We have been best friends sincethird grade and we are now 21.
I cannot imagine not beingfriends with her, since that is
(09:22):
12 years of my life.
I love her and I know she lovesme.
My family knows and loves herand vice versa.
However, some things have beencoming to my attention that
raise red flags.
I'm black and she is half white, half mexican and white passing
.
We both went to elementaryschool in the suburbs of a
southern state.
She has lived there ever since.
I have moved since then, but wesee each other a few times a
year and keep up over the phone.
(09:44):
The main thing I cannot get overis this she told me in december
of 2024 that her pastsituationship of three years
I'll call him ross is a trumpsupporter.
I've always got a bad vibe fromhim for a few reasons.
Valid trump supporter.
Um, he was flaky and unreliableto start, but also, I feel like
, didn't see me as a full person.
Maybe a good way to describe itis that he always seemed like
(10:06):
he was a fan of mine and I was a.
I'm literally just a girl.
We're all just girls, babe.
Ooh, ooh, okay.
His game pigeon profile was ablack person and ross asked her
a few years ago do you know whatblack people smell like?
(10:27):
And he said chalk or something.
What racist people are sofucking just like, uncreative,
like what does that even mean?
I don't even anyway, in thatmoment she was trying to
remember what I smelled like,which made me uncomfy.
Oh, that's not what the fuck.
Like she should haveimmediately corrected him.
Or like told him.
(10:48):
Like that was weird.
One of my favorite things to dois like weaponized incompetence
.
Like if somebody says somethingwith racial undertones, I'll be
like can you explain that to me?
Like I don't understand whatthat means.
And then they get uncomfortableand it's like yeah, bitch now.
We're both uncomfortable youknow what I mean.
Like the fact that she wastrying to remember what you
smelled like is odd, very odd.
(11:11):
I would have preferred her toshut down that conversation
valid, say that it wasinappropriate and weird, or stop
talking to him altogether,since he is obviously racist.
She is not a trump supporter.
She voted for kamala and hasalways said, since like 2020,
that she could never date atrump supporter, slash someone
who was racist.
So it did throw me off a littlebit when she told me he was a
Trump supporter, but at the sametime, he is a white man from
(11:31):
the south.
So that was my bad for notthinking that one through.
Not your bad at all.
Not your bad at all.
First and foremost, she is not aTrump supporter, but she's
comfortable around trumpsupporters, which is still an
issue in and of itself, becauseI feel like it enables that
behavior.
Like.
(11:51):
Personally, I feel like trumpsupporters should be shamed,
like we should be pointing andbooing at them every chance that
we get.
Anytime someone tells you I'm atrump supporter, throw tomatoes
immediately.
So the fact that she's been inthis situationship for three
years she's she's laying thatthing by the riverside, which is
still very, very odd like that.
(12:12):
That should be a deal breakerfor people, in my opinion,
because it's like I fullybelieve that trump supporters do
not see people who are notwhite as human like they.
They see us as black or mexicanor latino, like whatever,
before they even recognize us ashuman.
So the fact that she iscomfortable around him, I think,
(12:32):
says a lot about about her.
Like yes, I see that you saidthat she voted for kamala and
she says since 2020 that shewould never date a trump
supporter.
But it's like you know what Imean.
Like, anyway, let's keep going.
Now she has another situationship.
Oh, so she broke up with thistrump supporter man.
(12:52):
Okay, period, it took her aminute, but, um, okay, um, now
she has another situation ship,who I will call walter, because
that makes me laugh.
On top of being a terribleperson to be In a relationship
with.
She told me that Walter is afrat boy who goes to her college
and comes from money.
He is only 22 or 23 and drivesa Tesla, I think, has a Rolex,
(13:14):
shops at Gucci, etc.
Once, when they were outdrinking, walter asked her who
she thinks he voted for and shesaid I'm not an idiot, you're a
white man who goes to SouthernConservative College.
You voted for Trump and then hetold her that they don't have
to talk about it.
Wrong answer, wrong answer,wrong answer.
Red flag, woo, woo, woo, sirens, anytime somebody tells me that
they don't want to talk aboutpolitics or who, they voted for,
(13:35):
red fucking flag, in my opinion.
She told me Walter's familysupports Trump, but from one
picture you can tell that hedoes as well.
He once referred to one of herfriends of color by their race,
unnecessarily, and has asked herif she had ever been with a
black man before.
She answered I haven't beenwith a black man before, but
they come up to me all the time.
What's her issue?
Sorry, I know this is yourfriend, so I'm trying to like be
(13:57):
respectful, but like these arejust very odd responses and I'm
not fucking with them, again,not an optimal response.
Okay, so you get it.
Okay, period, we're on the samepage.
This is when I thought to tellher that Walter's comments were
racist.
Like many white women do, shedefended him a little bit by
saying, as if I would care aboutthe explanation he might not
have known her friend's name andhe asked that question because,
(14:20):
at a club once, she had postedto her snapchat story a picture
with the nearest random guy.
He was black and she asked himto pretend to be a frat boy and
her boyfriend to make walterjealous.
She said that.
She sees what I'm saying,though, and she sees where I'm
coming from.
I do not believe an explanationmatters, though.
A non-racist person would notsupport trump, casually refer to
someone by their race like that, or ask if she has slept with a
black man period, exactly like.
(14:44):
Be serious, at least.
Maybe you're not a trumpsupporter, but you're definitely
like racist.
Because like what?
Why does it?
Why does any of that matter?
Why does anyone before you thatshe may have been with matter?
Why are you referring to peopleby just their race?
Like it's?
It's odd, it's very odd.
I wonder how he would refer tome or how he would treat me if
we were to ever meet.
(15:05):
I feel like a friend shouldnever allow a man to treat their
friends the way I know he wouldtreat me.
I am also tired of white womendefending white men like this,
while insisting that they arenot racist because they voted
for kamala or have black friends.
Yeah, both of those are a copout for sure.
Like I, like I the I have blackfriends thing, like you can
have black friends and still beracist.
(15:25):
You could have voted for kamalaharris and still be racist.
Like that doesn't make you notracist.
Like, personally, I feel likevoting for kamala harris given
the alternative bare fuckingminimum, and having black
friends and saying that you'renot racist, I feel like it's
like a like you have blackfriends so that you can use them
to say that you're not racist,which is tokenizing black people
(15:46):
, which is racism.
So, yeah, neither one of thosethings makes you not racist.
You're absolutely right.
I get that to a degree.
White men and women aresocialized to act this way to
keep white supremacy afloat.
But maybe I should not befriends with her if she is going
to partake in that.
In case you're an audiolistener, savannah, I'm shaking
my head.
Yes, like you, I I wouldn't.
(16:08):
Honestly, being a trumpsupporter, being comfortable
around trump supporters oranyone who says anything racist,
is an automatic deal breakerfor me, because I feel like, on
some level, if you arecomfortable being around people
like that, that tells me thatyou agree with it.
You know what I mean.
Like you have to feel that acertain way about me and other
people of color or black peopleas well, and I understand like
(16:28):
people will say oh, you couldhave differences with your
friends, yeah, we can disagreeabout pizza toppings, but not
like if my life matters you knowwhat I mean.
Like that's a little bit of adisagreement that I feel like we
shouldn't be having.
If we're friends, maybe that'sjust me, her friends maybe
that's just me, since she seemsto gravitate towards trump
supporting men.
Being close friends with hermight mean I will have to be
around those people and I do notwant to be around people who
voted my other people's rightsaway.
(16:51):
But it should be about morethan just me because, for
example, I would not date orentertain someone homophobic,
not just because I have lgbtqplus friends and I do not want
to date someone who hates myfriends and votes their rights
away.
But I also find homophobia to beoverall unattractive and it
gives me the ick for sure.
I feel like any of it.
Like because homophobia, racism, all of that is just like so
(17:13):
stupid to me.
Like when you genuinely thinkabout it.
Like you're mad because my skinis darker or you're mad because
of what I decided to do in mybed, who bends me over in my
free time.
That doesn't seem ridiculous asfuck to you.
Like that doesn't seem likesuch a stupid way to live.
Like how are you mad and youhate me because of how I live my
life or because I was bornblack?
(17:35):
That's just.
It's unattracted to me becauseit's not smart.
Like I am very attracted topeople who are intelligent and
smart and like have common senseand use their fucking brains,
and for people who are racist,homophobic, anything like that
like it's just unattractive tome because it just tells me that
you're not smart.
I feel like for us to continueour friendship, that would have
to be her mindset slash dealbreaker, and it's clearly not.
(17:57):
This goes for me and her.
But I feel like the people youchoose to be in your life says a
lot about you and what you'rewilling to tolerate.
Absolutely I do not want tomake someone choose between me
and their significant others butat the same time, if that is
the type of man she chooses,maybe I cannot keep choosing her
as a friend.
I feel like and I'm gonna holdyour hand, no napkin while I say
this you're choosing her as afriend, but I don't feel like
(18:20):
she's fully choosing you,because if she genuinely was
choosing you, then she wouldn'tbe around people like you said,
who condone that behavior, whowho support trump, who are
racist, who are homophobic, whoare anything like being around
those people and like that.
Not being being a deal breakerlets me know to some extent that
(18:40):
you're okay with those things.
And if you're okay with thosethings, as a black person like I
can't be around you.
That you're okay with thosethings.
And if you're okay with thosethings, as a black person like I
can't be around you becauseyou're okay with someone
genuinely putting my life indanger so you're not even really
a friend.
You see what I'm saying like afriend of mine, a genuine friend
of mine, would never put mylife in danger, would never see
me as less of a human, wouldnever be around someone who sees
(19:04):
me as less of a human.
This is not an exhaustive list,but here are other few little
things, littles in quotes, thatbother me.
Let's see if they're actuallylittle, because I have a feeling
maybe they're not Okay.
One time me and my friend werehanging out and for some reason
she had my phone and on my phonescreen one of my widgets showed
different pictures from mycamera roll.
One of the pictures that cameup was a picture of a younger
(19:25):
step cousin who was white.
My friend saw it and said it'sweird, you just have a picture
of a white kid on your phone.
I laughed kind of because I wasuncomfy and said that's my
little cousin.
Then she said I don'tcomprehend that At this point.
They have been in my life fortwo years and my friend knows
this, knows of them and has seenpictures of them before.
She can never wrap her mindaround how I am related to a
fully white person, even thoughit is pretty simple and I have
(19:47):
told her this we are stepcousins and obviously not
related by blood.
My aunt married a white man andhe has kids from a previous
marriage.
Literally the childrenthemselves understand it, but
she does not.
Does she not understand it oris she just like, not wanting to
understand it?
You know she's acting like I amtrying to tell her that two
black people in my film gavebirth to a fully white person.
(20:08):
She uses the word ghetto a lot.
Once, when drunk, she touchedmy face while wearing a silver
costume glove and got some of myfoundation on her glove.
When she realized my makeup wason her glove, she said no.
Then she pulled out her phoneand started making a video for
her snapchat story and says guys, never be friends with a person
(20:28):
of color, because I justtouched your face and now my
glove is black.
Hello, I would have ended therelationship, the friendship
with her right then and there.
I know it can be difficultbecause you guys have been
friends for a very long time.
But what?
Like?
That's odd.
Ew, yeah, no, uh-uh, likethat's just.
(20:50):
It's like she's using you as,like a prop.
That's what this feels like tome.
It's like, oh, I'm friends withthis, this black person, so I
can say these things.
She's definitely giving the Ihave black friends trope.
You know what I mean.
Trope isn't the word I waslooking for, but I can't think
of another word because, like,my flowers are a little bit
gassed from reading that.
(21:10):
Holy fuck, what the fuck?
Once, when she was young, shesaid the f?
Slur at least four times andthen, when she was sober, she
claimed it was her first timesaying it.
Okay, that doesn't.
Like, was that her excuse forsaying it?
Like, oh, I've never said thatbefore.
Like that's not an excuse, thatdoesn't make it okay.
(21:31):
She was taking a race, genderand ethnic studies class and she
had a hard time with that class.
She said she sometimes skippedit because she felt like she did
not need it and that it was forthe racist conservative kids at
her college.
Aka, not her, she believes.
No, she should have been frontand center for the class taking
notes the whole class, like girl.
If anybody needed this class itwas her.
(21:52):
The professor had said somethingabout all white people being
racist to a degree or support,slash, benefit from white
supremacy, and she was like Iknow this is true for most
people at the school, but I amnot racist.
I thought about telling theprofessor that I have a best
friend who I have been friendswith since third grade, and she
is black.
Trust me, I'm not racist.
See, this is what I'm saying.
Like she's using you as like aprop, as a token, like I can't
(22:14):
be racist because I have blackfriends and that's just simply
not true.
Simply not true.
Literally anybody can be racistand most people, whether they
realize it or not, are racistbecause racism is embedded into
our society like this is why Ialways say you can't just say
you're not racist.
You have to be anti racist orelse you will be racist.
Because it's so.
It's literally woven into thefabric of, like the fucking
(22:35):
american flag.
Like it's, it's everywhere.
It's literally everywhere.
She believes that she would notbe friends with me if she was
racist.
To be honest, it seems like sheis very worried about being
called racist instead of lookingat her actual thoughts, words
and if she was racist, to behonest, it seems like she is
very worried about being calledracist instead of looking at her
actual thoughts, words andactions.
She was worried about defendingherself and not about learning.
It was very much giving.
I'm not racist.
I have a black friend, which isnot a reason that someone is not
racist, but she does not thinkso.
(22:56):
Evidently.
I know the right thing to do ismaybe distance myself or maybe
not be friends with her, but itis really hard.
I know I said a lot of honestand not so great things about
her, but she is one of my bestfriends and we have a lot of
great memories and she has beenin my life for 13 years.
Part of me wants to keep givingher chances and I will be more
assertive with my boundaries andcall things out that bother me.
For example, the next time sheuses the word ghetto, I will
(23:17):
talk to her about it.
Another part of me wantsfriends who already got it
without me having to completelyexplain it, and that's fair.
Like we're all grown, we allhave access to the internet.
Like we should all be educatingourselves.
So I understand that as well.
If I do distance myself becauseof my lack of communication
with this problem, it will feelsudden to everyone else.
My parents are going to askquestions, my friend herself is
(23:37):
going to ask questions about whyI'm distancing myself from her.
Then I might have to explainmyself, which will feel
overwhelming and scary, etc.
I would appreciate your inputand I would love to know what
you would do.
Thanks so much for reading this.
Sorry, this was so long.
It is definitely the longestemail I have ever written.
If it's too long to read on thepodcast, I would still
appreciate your advice via email.
Hope you're having a great day,savannah.
(23:58):
Okay, savvy girl, not too longto read.
I appreciate you know all theinformation you gave me because
that helps me form my opinionbetter.
Of course, the more informationI know, the more I can be
helpful in the situation.
Personally, I feel like to somedegree, you might already know
(24:19):
what you have to do Very, veryhard thing to do.
Of course, you guys have beenfriends for a very long time, so
I can understand why you knowyou might want to try to assert
yourself more or give her morechances and try to teach her
essentially how to not be racist.
On the other hand, I feel likegiving someone chances, like
(24:43):
giving someone chance afterchance after chance to be better
, it kind of iscounterproductive in a way,
because the more chances yougive somebody, the more leeway
you give them, the more you'rekind of showing them what you
will put up with.
You know what I mean, and so Ican understand wanting to give
her more chances and trying tobe more assertive and trying to
(25:06):
teach her.
But it doesn't seem like, atleast from the information that
I've gotten, especially with theclass that she took and like
her not feeling like she neededthe class.
I don't know that she evenreally wants to be educated.
I don't know that she feelslike she needs to be educated or
like she's doing anything wrong, and so it's.
(25:27):
I feel like it's it's an evenharder situation because it does
also kind of give that shemight be a little male-centered.
Um, and male-centered friendsby themselves are just very
dangerous.
But throw a male-centeredfriend in who is racist and also
has a black friend, that couldbe an extremely dangerous
(25:50):
situation for you, because itdoesn't seem like she would put
you first in a situation, firstbecause, again, I feel like
she's male-centered, but alsobecause she kind of not even
kind of she does let racismslide.
So I think that this is a verytricky situation.
Again, given the longevity ofyour friendship and you know
your family's close to her,you're probably close to her
(26:12):
family.
But if it were me, I would.
I would probably drop her as afriend.
I I would maybe try to educateher and see if she would even be
open to it, but I don't.
I don't know from theinformation that you've given me
that she would be, and I alsodon't think that it's your job
to teach her to not be racist.
I feel like if she, as she says,she has black friends, then she
(26:34):
should, should be doing thatwork herself.
But it's not really giving thatshe's doing that work and it's
not giving that that work iseven a priority for her and the
fact that that's not a priorityfor her?
It doesn't seem to be apriority for her, given the
state of the world right now.
I just feel like that's a majorred flag.
She has privilege.
You said that she's half white,half Mexican and white passing,
(26:56):
so she could be using thatprivilege that she has to try to
educate herself so that shecould also educate others.
But it's like she's using herprivilege for her advantage,
which is what most maybe notmost, no, most check the exit
polls Most.
Why people do is that they usetheir privilege to benefit
(27:18):
themselves and like they don'tcare about other people, even
people like in their families orclose friends.
You know what I mean.
So what would Dejanae do?
Final word of advice I probablywould drop her faster than JLo
got dropped by her label, herfaster than jlo got dropped by
her label.
But if you're feeling generousand you're feeling like you know
you want to do some work andeducate her, you could give it a
(27:41):
try.
You could try and be moreassertive.
I will say I've had friends fora very long time that I've had
to cut off as well, becausewe're just I being a trump
supporter or being a trumpsupporter adjacent is an
automatic deal breaker for mebecause I I don't want to
educate you.
I don't feel like I should haveto.
I feel like if you consider meyour friend, knowing that I am a
black woman, you should beeducating yourself.
(28:02):
You know what I mean.
So it would be a deal breakerfor me and I will say that you
know, when you finally get ridof people in your life who don't
value you as a person, it doesopen doors for people who will
truly value you to come in.
So I understand that.
You know you guys have thelongevity and the time of your
friendship on your side and Ican understand why you're using
(28:24):
that, or might see that, as areason to want to continue to be
friends with her.
You guys have been friends fora very long time.
But quality over quantity.
You know what I mean.
Like the amount of time doesn'tmatter so much if the quality
of the friendship isn't the bestand you could meet someone
tomorrow who is a better friendthan this girl that you've known
(28:45):
for the majority of your lifeyou know what I mean who is
going to genuinely see you andother people as people and not
be around people who would voteyour rights away or do any sort
of crazy thing to you or putyour life in danger or anything
like that.
So I understand.
You know, with the amount oftime that you guys have been
(29:05):
friends, it's hard.
I'm not saying that it's easy,because it's definitely not.
But I will say that you, ifsomeone is not truly valuing you
as a person, the best thingthat you can do for yourself and
it'll take time for you to youknow heal and you know you'll
mourn that friendship.
I feel like the worst breakupsI've ever had are friend
(29:27):
breakups.
They're harder than any manI've ever broken up with.
Literally like boys, that's aboy, I'll be fine.
When it's your, your girlfriend, like that hurts, that hurts a
lot more.
You know what I mean, but Iwill say that you know, once you
stop giving so much energy torelationships and friendships or
(29:47):
whatever that don't serve youin the way that you know you're
not getting things reciprocatedback or people are not even
looking at you as a fuckinghuman, you do open the doors for
other people to come in and youcan refocus your energy towards
people who see you as a humanand people that you don't have
to teach or people that youdon't have to walk through how
to not be racist or not excuseracism.
(30:10):
You know what I mean.
So said all that to say sorry,I'm long-winded.
That's why your email peoplesending me long emails never
bothers me.
I'm long-winded myself, so Iget it.
But final thoughts of what Iwould do I would drop her
immediately, as hard as it wouldbe.
It would be very hard.
I'm not saying that this iseasy.
It's gonna be difficult.
So if you feel like that isprobably too difficult for you
(30:31):
right now and you want to tryand you know be more assertive
and you have the time and theability to teach her, do that.
If you feel like it would behelpful, you feel like you could
get somewhere, I would say,maybe try, but understand that
if you're going to try that,don't exhaust yourself.
You know what I mean.
Like try for a little bit.
(30:52):
And if you're saying like, yeah,she's just not getting it, you
don't have to keep giving peoplechances to play in your face.
When someone shows you who theyare, believe them.
Don't let someone play in yourface and and use you as some
sort of like token.
Look, I have black friends, Ican't be racist.
Don't put yourself in thosesituations.
(31:12):
I promise you there are peopleout there who you will not have
to teach that you are deservingof basic human decency and
respect.
I promise you, even from likethe little list that you gave me
by the way, none of the thingson that list were little Babe.
Those are big, big things forme, that would you know.
Those are red flags, but I canunderstand.
(31:34):
Like you know her more than Ido.
You guys have been friends fora much longer time, so basically
, what I'm saying is IDK, thoughyou know what I mean.
Anytime I give advice, I'm likethis is what I would do, but
like it's your life, take ithowever much you want to take,
(31:56):
take that and what you don'twant to take, like you know what
I mean, it's your life.
But I just feel like youdeserve better friends.
You deserve someone that youdon't have to teach.
But if you feel like you wantto teach, then you could do that
too.
But personally me, I would dropher.
But anyway, that's just me,though that's my advice.
I would drop her.
But if you feel like you want totry and you know you can be
more assertive and you can standup for yourself, by all means
(32:17):
do that as well, because I mean,even if she doesn't learn from
it, you could learn from it andand learn how to, you know, step
into your voice even more,which is always a good thing as
well.
I'm trying to find the silverlining and all this.
You feel me, um.
So yeah, if you feel like thisis a good time for you to to
test out being more assertivefor yourself and using your
(32:38):
voice and standing up foryourself and black people and
and other marginalized groups,then you should do that.
But also, don't don't give hertoo much leeway.
You know what I mean.
Like she's already, in myopinion, testing the water is a
little bit too much.
Like she's already got herwhole foot in the water.
Don't let her do a cannonballin the water and play in your
(32:58):
face too much.
You know what I mean.
So, at the end of the day, Idon't feel like anybody should
have to teach anybody anything.
We all have access to theinternet.
We all are able to teachourselves, but if you feel like
that's something that you wannado, by all means, I feel like
you should do that.
So I hope this is helpful.
Thank you so much for yoursubmission.
(33:18):
If anybody else has a situation, needs advice, whatever it is,
email me at the napkin inbetween podcast at gmailcom and
I will give you my advice inwhat Desjane would do in that
situation.
I do read the emails for thefirst time on the pod because I
want to give my honest, raw,real reaction.
So if you want to be anonymous,totally fine, just let me know
somewhere in the email,preferably at the top, so I know
that before I get into theemail.
(33:39):
Savannah, thank you so much foryour submission.
I do not take it lightly thatany of you are here listening,
watching and even wanting myadvice like that's huge for me
and it means so much to me.
So I really appreciate yoursubmission.
Thank you, and I hope theadvice was helpful.
Thank you, guys.
So much for tuning in totoday's episode.
I hope everyone's having a goodday, except for that orange
drink lady, and I will talk toyou in the next episode.
Peace and love.
Talk to you later.
(34:00):
The Napkin in Between, hostedby Daijné Jones, produced by
Daijné Jones, post-production byDaijné Jones, music by Sam
Champagne and graphics by IsmaVidal.
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