The BlacKkKlansman: Ron Stallworth and Unmaksing The KKK

In today's episode, we unravel the audacious undercover operation led by Ron Stallworth, a black detective who infiltrated the Ku Klux Klan in the 1970s. With his partner Chuck taking on the in-person meetings, Stallworth's bold tactics exposed the shocking naivety of the white supremacists, even gaining approval from David Duke himself. We recount the jaw-dropping moment when Stallworth posed for a photo with Duke, all without blowing his cover, and discuss why the operation, despite its success in thwarting potential hate crimes, was abruptly shut down. Join us for a tale of wit, courage, and the remarkable impact of challenging deeply ingrained prejudice.

Episode Transcript

Daijné (00:00):
Is this thing on?
Hello hello.
Uh-oh, another yapper with amic.
Ha ha ha ha.
Hello everyone, and welcomeback to the Napkin In Between
podcast.
I am your host, Daijné Jones,but we might get a special guest

(00:21):
, host Davonté, because I amsick as fuck.
I've been sick as fuck for thepast couple of days.
I feel like absolute dick waterand my voice thinks that she is
like on a Broadway show and isdoing quick changes.
So sometimes I sound likemyself and then sometimes
Davonté comes out and I soundlike somebody's son.
I don't know.
It happens extremelyinfrequently, but I just wanted

(00:44):
to give y'all a heads up.
Like if you hear hella bass inmy voice out of nowhere, it's
still me, it's just Davontéwanted to come say hi and you
know what.
We're just gonna let Davonté dowhatever the fuck he wants to
do.
Like at this point I don't know.
So I might be sick as fuckingfeeling down, but you know what
is up the city girls, because Igot my hair done.

(01:07):
That has been the peak of myweek, one of two, actually.
I have two peak of the weeksthis week.
First one is getting my hairdone.
I swear nothing makes life moreworth living than getting your
hair done.
Like hair appointment day isthe best day.
I struggle with getting upearly always have always will
but the two instances where Ihave no problem waking up at the

(01:27):
crack ass of dawn is when I'mabout to catch a flight and when
I'm about to get my hair done.
I feel like since I've moved toNew York, I haven't really
found the place that I want togo consistently to get my hair
done.
Like it changes because I justhaven't found that place where
I'm really like okay, like youknow, this is where I want to go
.
Girl.
Found that place where I'mreally like okay, like you know,
this is where I want to go,girl, I think I found it.
Like.
The place that I went to to getmy hair done is called Jamilah
Beauty Studio.

(01:48):
It's in Harlem on West 116.
The service was immaculate.
First of all, the booking wassuper easy and they provide all
the hair, so, like the braidinghair and the curly pieces for
this style, all was includedwithin the price and the price
was still affordable.
I just got black because it wasmy first time going there, so
you know I was like let's justkeep it simple, but they had so
many different colors to pickfrom, and all of it was included

(02:10):
in the service.
And then, on top of that, thestylist was so sweet, so
accommodating, so skilled, so Iwould definitely be going back
there.
Any of my girls who are in NewYork City check out Jamilah's
Beauty Studio.
This is not I'm not gettingpaid to promote this, This is
just because I really liked itand I will be going back.

(02:31):
And hot girls don't gatekeep.
So if you're looking for abraid studio in the city,
Jamilah's Beauty Studio, like Isaid, it is in Harlem on West
116.
Check them out because they'rethey're really, really good and
I would definitely be back.
That was the first peak of myweek.
The second peak of my weekGalentine's.
with the girls.
Me and a bunch of mygirlfriends, we went to this
place that we really like.
It's all you can eat and drinksushi 50 bucks a person.
Me and the girls had the besttime.
You know, just laughing,kiki-ing, having drinks, having
sushi.
Sushi is like one of my favoritefoods in the world.

(02:52):
Like if I had to pick one thingto survive off of for the rest
of my life, it would probably besushi.
Like, I feel like I couldreally survive off of sushi
alone.
I could probably figure out away to make breakfast sushi,
lunch and dinner sushi, dessertsushi.
That sounds a little crazy butI feel like I could figure it
out if I only had to live offone thing for the rest of my
life.
The only thing is I'm reallyscared of trying sushi raw.

(03:14):
So I've never tried raw sushi.
I only eat the cooked sushibecause in my brain I feel like
I know that it's raw, so Ialways feel like I'm gonna get
sick.
So I've never tried the rawsushi but I kind of want to.
But I had to take baby stepstowards eating raw meats or not
fully cooked meats.
And I've made a little bit ofbaby steps because recently I've
really been into eating steak.

(03:36):
Like it's bad.
I probably eat steak at leasttwo to three times a week,
sometimes four.
Like you're not supposed to eatthat much red meat.
But fuck the police, I don'tcare.
I love steak.
But I've always been the personwho eats a well-done steak
because I don't want to get sick.
I'm so worried about it being alittle bit raw and getting sick
.
I don't want to see any pink.
I definitely don't want to seeany red.

(03:57):
Like cook my shit completely,and I know what people say, like
, oh, if you're gonna eat welldone steak, just eat a hamburger
.
Literally shut up.
You're annoying me.
But I've worked my way up to thepoint where now I eat medium
rare steak.
Like first I would do it like alittle pink and then I worked
my way up until it's like red inthe middle and, I'm not going
to lie, I get the hype now.

(04:20):
Okay, like I get it.
Medium rare really is so muchbetter.
But I had to work my way up tothat because I'm always afraid.
So I feel like I can do thatwith sushi too, hopefully, but
we're not there yet.
Right now we're just gonnastick with the cooked sushi.
But someday, someday, I'llprobably try the raw, but for
right now, like, leave me to thecooked sushi.
But I just love sushi and Ilove hanging out with the girls,

(04:41):
and we had such a goodGalentine's Day and it was great
.
So, yeah, those are definitelythe peaks of my weeks is finding
a breeding salon that not onlyI like but might be the
recurring place that I go, andthen sushi with the girls is
always an amazing time.
So I want to know the peak ofyour week?
Please leave it in the comments.
What did you do this week thatgrounded you, that made you
smile, that kept you present inthis very unserious, crazy times

(05:06):
, with everything that's goingon moving along and we'll bring
on talk about?
Today I want to talk about theblack man who took a very
dangerous and big step intoacquiring information on
arguably the biggest known hategroup in the world.
So in 1978 there was adetective in Colorado Springs
named Ron Stallworth.
He was a new detective in theColorado Springs Police

(05:28):
Department and also he was thefirst black detective in the
Colorado Springs PoliceDepartment.
So one day he's at work, sittingat his desk reading the local
newspaper and he sees in theclassified section there is an
announcement of a new chapter ofthe KKK in Colorado Springs and
is encouraging people to applyto the new chapter.
So there's a P.
O.
Box in the announcement in thenewspaper and this detective,
Ron Stallworth, writes to the P.

(05:49):
O.
Box that he's interested inmore information.
He submits his letter sayingthat he wants more information
and he also writes theundercover phone line so that
you know they have something tocall to give him more
information.
So about a week later he gets acall on the undercover phone
line.
He answers the phone and theperson on the other end is like
is this Ron Stallworth?
And he kind of forgot that hehad sent this letter for more
information.

(06:09):
So he's like who the hell iscalling me on this undercover
line?
But he's like, yeah, like thisis Ron Stallworth.
Like who am I speaking to?
And the person on the otherside of the call says this is
the president of the ColoradoSprings chapter of the KKK.
We got your requesting moreinformation.
And then that's when he's likeoh shit, like I put my real name
on this application.
I watched an interview of hisand he says that was an honest

(06:30):
mistake.
But it was a mistake that couldhave blown his cover from the
very beginning.
Thankfully it didn't.
He was able to play it off.
He starts talking to this manwho is the chapter president of
Colorado Springs division of theKKK and the president is asking
him like why do you want tojoin the Klan?
So Ron Stallworth responds andhe says he hates blacks.
He uses the N word and then hesays he also hates Jews,

(06:52):
Mexicans and Asians, but he usesthe racial slurs for all those
groups of people.
And then he also says that hissister, who is a white woman, is
dating this black man.
And every time the black manputs his filthy black hands on
his sister it makes him cringe.
The response that he got fromthe clan president is you're
just the guy we're looking for.
When can we meet?
So now he's like, oh fuck,because obviously he's a black

(07:12):
man, he cannot meet this person.
So they arrange a meeting for aweek in advance.
And after he hangs up the phonehe goes to his Sergeant.
He tells his Sergeant about theclassified ad he saw, saw him
writing to the P.
O.
Box the call that he had justhad, and you know all of that.
The Sergeant laughs at him.
He doesn't think that he'sserious at first, but then when
he realizes that he's serious,he's like, okay, well, how do

(07:33):
you want to handle this?
And Ron says I want to take thisas far as we can like.
I want someone to go undercover.
So he mentions an undercoverofficer, one that he had trained
recently in narcotics, that hewants to use.
So his Sergeant tells him to goto the Lieutenant in narcotics,
you know.
Tell him what had happened andwho he wants to use for this
undercover investigation.
He goes to the Lieutenant andthe Lieutenant is immediately
like no, he tells him he's notgonna use the man's name was

(07:55):
Chuck that's the name of theofficer.
He's not gonna let him useChuck, because once Chuck goes
to the meeting in person,they're gonna be able to tell
Ron on the phone versus Chuck inperson, posing as Ron
Stallworth.
And so Ron Stallworth is likewell, what do you mean by that?
Like ho, are you cool?
Because we all knew what hemeant.
But he was just like it's notgonna work.

(08:16):
I'm not wasting a goodundercover officer on idiots
running around in white sheets.
So Ron is like okay, he goesback to his Sergeant and tells
the Sergeant what happened.
And the Sergeant is like okay,well, what do you want to do?
Now?
Ron says he wants to take itall the way to the Chief.
So Ron and his Sergeant go tothe Chief.
He explains to the Chief youknow, what he's done.
The Chief at first doesn'tthink he's serious either, and
then, when he realizes that Ronis serious, he's like okay.

(08:38):
So like, what do you want to do?
He tells the Chief how he wantsto use the undercover officer
in narcotics.
The Lieutenant said no.
So the Chief goes to theLieutenant and tells the
Lieutenant to give Ron anythingthat he wants for this
investigation.
Obviously the Lieutenant didnot like that, but at the end of
the day what the Chief saysgoes.
So then Ron is able to use theundercover police officer that
he had first wanted to use.

(08:58):
So he fills him in on theconversation that he had with
the chapter president, becausein order for this to work they
had to be on the same pagecompletely.
Any conversations that Ron, theactual Ron, had on the phone,
he had to tell them to the Ron,the undercover officer who was
going to go in person, and viceversa, so that there were no
slip ups and the Klan membersdidn't realize what was actually

(09:19):
happening.
So he fills them in oneverything that happened on the
phone and about the meeting aweek later.
So then a week later they shophim up with a wire to record the
conversation and they send theundercover Ron to the meeting.
I'm going to refer to these twopeople as undercover Ron and
real Ron to keep them separate.
So undercover Ron is the officerChuck, the undercover officer
who's going to the meetingsbecause he's a white man.

(09:40):
Real Ron is Ron Stallworth, theblack detective who started
this whole investigation, butobviously can't go to the
meetings because he's black.
So a week later, undercover Rongoes to meet the klan president
, who I don't know if I saidthis, but when real Ron was on
the phone with him for theinitial call, he learned that he
was an active military memberwho was stationed at Fort Carson
, a U.

(10:00):
S.
military base a little bitsouth of Colorado Springs.
So undercover Ron goes to meethim.
Real Ron is close by in a carbasically staked out so that he
could hear their conversation.
So once undercover Ron getsthere, they tell him that this
is a part of their securityclearance and they actually have
to go to a different locationin order to talk to him about
joining the klan.
Undercover Ron tries to talkhis way out of that and stay at

(10:21):
the location, because real Ronexplained in an interview that
when you're working undercoveryou want to maintain as much
control of a situation aspossible.
So once you decide on a meetingplace, you don't really want to
leave that meeting placebecause undercover work is
already dangerous, but going toa place that hasn't been decided
on by the person workingundercover makes it even more
dangerous.
So undercover Ron is trying to,you know, convince them to stay

(10:44):
at this location.
He isn't able to do it, so theyleave to go to another location
.
Thankfully, real Ron in the caris able to follow them to the
new location and be there withundercover ron.
So at this meeting they'retalking about, you know, the
Klan and why undercover Ronwants to join the Klan and he's
given the same reasons like oh,I hate black people, jews,
asians, whatever, whatever.

(11:05):
And so after this meeting theygive him a brochure with more
information about the Klan andalso an application, and so they
explain to him in theapplication.
You have to fill it out, submitit, it and it has to be
approved before you canparticipate in any klan activity
, such as cross burning oranything like that.
And so during this meeting he'sasking them, trying to get more
information, like what is theirgoal?
What do they hope to gain fromthis new chapter?

(11:27):
And they explained to him thatDavid Duke, who was the grand
wizard of the klan at the time,was coming to visit in a few
months and they wanted to haveenough people in the Klan by the
time David Duke got there sothat they could do a march down
Nevada Avenue.
Nevada Avenue is one of themain streets in downtown
Colorado Springs and so theywanted to do a huge march down

(11:47):
that street, where they wouldget a lot of attention because
of local businesses and it beingone of the main streets in
Colorado Springs, so that thepeople of Colorado could know of
their presence in the city.
And so undercover Ron gets allthis information, takes his
application packet back to thepolice department.
Real Ron has to fill it outbecause he's the one who sent
the initial letter about wantinginformation, so the handwriting

(12:08):
had to match.
And so he fills out theapplication, sends it in.
Several weeks go by and hisapplication hasn't been approved
.
And again, he can't participatein any activities like cross
burning or anything like thatuntil he is approved.
So all he can do is sendundercover ron to their meetings
, but he can't participate inanything else because he hadn't
been approved.
So after a couple weeks ofwaiting on his card, he decides

(12:29):
that he's going to call DavidDuke's office so that he can see
what's going on with hisapplication.
So he calls the office.
To his surprise David Dukehimself answers the phone, and
this really threw him offbecause he wasn't expecting to
speak to David Duke directly.
But he says to David Duke, likeI submitted my application a
couple weeks ago, I haven'theard back anything and I can't
participate in any activities,and so my application is
approved.
Like, can you check on it or isthere a way to, you know, get

(12:51):
my application approved?
So while he's on the phone hesays that he can hear shuffling
in the background and he hearsDavid Duke pull his application
and David Duke says that hehimself is going to check over
his application and approve itand he should get his card
within the next couple of days.
Three or four days after thisphone call, he gets his card
from David Duke that says thathe is an active member of the Ku

(13:12):
Klux Klan.
Can you fucking imagine whatwas going through this man's
head, this black man, RonStallworth detective, getting a
card with his name on it because, again, he accidentally used
his real name when he submittedthe first letter asking for more
information about the Klan.
He now has this card.
He is a card carrying memberfor the KKK as a black man.

(13:34):
As long as you say the rightthings, these white supremacists
are the easiest fucking peopleto manipulate because they're so
fucking stupid.
Literally all you have to do isuse a couple racial slurs and
they're like sign this one up,sign him up.
This reminds me of that blackwoman who posed as a Trump
supporter in order to promoteher GoFundMe and they sent her
all this money for her GoFundMewhole time.

(13:57):
She wasn't a Trump supporter,she just said that she was.
They don't check shit and senther all this money.
Even Ron Stallworth himselfsaid that during this whole
investigation, which was likesix or seven months, there were
multiple times that he would beon the phone with David Duke.
This man is talking to a blackman and he had no fucking clue.
And Ron Stallworth asked himlike are you ever afraid that

(14:17):
some, like smart alec blackperson, might try to call and
get information on the KK?
And David Duke's response waslike oh, I can always tell the
difference between a black manand a white man.
He's using racial slurs.
By the way, he's not sayingblack man, he's saying hard er
and Ron is like okay, well, howcan you tell the difference?
And he's like, just by the waythey speak, like you are an
educated white man and you speaklike an educated white man.

(14:38):
But black people they're not aseducated and so they don't
speak like we speak.
And Ron is like okay, well, canyou give me an example?
And he goes, take the word are,for example, educated men like
you and I?
We say are like, are the wayit's supposed to be said?
But a black person will sayare-a.
So if you ever are on the phonewith someone and you're not
sure who you're talking to, getthem to say the word are, and

(14:59):
that'll be a sign whether you'retalking to an educated white
person or a black person.
And so after that conversation,Ron said that every time he was
on the phone with David Duke,which he called David Duke two
or three times a week, he saidduring this entire investigation
, sometimes they get information, sometimes it just just talk to
him.
And every time that he would beon the phone with him he would
say like how are-a you, howare-a the wife and kids?

(15:21):
And David Duke never picked upon the fact that he had changed
the way that he was saying arethe stupidest group of fucking
people in the world anyway.
So now Ron Stallworth, a blackman, is an official member of
the kKK.
He gets a little membershipcard which he carries in his
wallet and then he also gets acertificate of membership which
he said he hung in his office atthe police department while he

(15:43):
was there until he retiredundercover.
Ron is going to the meetings inperson.
So now, as an active member ofthe KKK, Ron Stallworth is able
to stop not only events in theColorado Springs area but in
other parts of the US as well.
So, for example, if he was onthe phone with David Duke and he
was talking about you know,like we're going to have a cross
burning in this city, he wasthen able to call the police

(16:04):
department in that city, givethem a heads up on what was
happening so that they could uptheir police presence, and then
they wouldn't do those things.
This also happened severaltimes right in Colorado Springs.
They were planning crossburnings and marches and Ron
Stallworth was able to stopthose by upping the police
presence in the parts of townwhere they were planning those
things.
And, mind you, several times inColorado Springs and in other

(16:27):
cities they were planning eventsand they would talk to Ron
Stallworth, either undercover orreal, about these events.
These events would be thwartedbecause he would let other
police departments know, or theywould up the police presence in
Colorado Springs and they nevercaught on to why this was
happening.
Like they're so filled withhate there's no room for any
type of education, logic orcritical thinking.

(16:49):
Sense is chasing them, but theyare much faster.
So, as they're developing thischapter of the KKK in Colorado
Springs, they eventually get to14 members, and of these 14,
there were only two or three whoweren't active military
personnel stationed at FortCarson.
There was actually a point intime in this investigation where
it was found that two of thepeople that were a part of the

(17:09):
Colorado Springs chapter of theKKK were top military
specialists and worked for NORAD.
If you're unfamiliar with NORAD, that is the North American
Aerospace Defense Command.
These people have specialclearances, work at the top
levels of the military and arealso active members of the KKK.
And I know that probablyshouldn't be surprising, because

(17:29):
racist people and the KKK arein all parts of our government.
But like fuck, I don't know,I'm a little.
I'm always gonna be a littlesurprised when I find out that
racist people are running crazyparts of our government.
And maybe not surprised maybesurprised isn't the right word,
it's more like shook.
You know what I mean, like it'snot surprising, but like it
leaves me shook because what thefuck?

(17:51):
So these two people who work atnorad are found to be members
of the KKK.
Those people were immediatelyfired and their special
clearances were taken.
But this investigation continues.
Real Ron is continuing to talkon the phone to David Duke a
couple times a week.
Undercover Ron is continuing togo to meetings.
They're continuing to stopactivities that are planned like
cross burnings.
They also wanted to try to plana bombing of two gay bars in

(18:15):
Colorado which were just intalks, being as though most of
these members were in themilitary and stationed at Fort
Carson.
They were trying to stealweapons and things from the
military base, but none of thatwas ever able to happen.
There was talks of bombings butit never really came to
fruition.
But now we get to the pointwhere David Duke is coming to

(18:35):
visit Colorado Springs and therewere credible threats to his
life while he was in ColoradoSprings and the Colorado Springs
Police Department Chief didn'twant David Duke to be killed
while he was in the city.
So he goes to Real Ron, who'sbeen talking to David Duke on
the phone for several months atthis time and assigns him to
security detail of David Duke.

(18:56):
Real Ron and his Sergeant argueagainst this because they're
like he's been talking to DavidDuke on the phone.
David Duke might realize who heis like, why.
Why can't you use someone elseto be his security?
And the Chief is like you'rethe best person for this job.
I want you to do this.
I feel like the Chief is alittle fucking shady for that
because you, you know what thefuck going on.
You're the one who okayed thisentire investigation and now

(19:19):
everyone's cover could be blownbecause you want to assign real
Ron to be David Duke's securitydetail.
And real Ron and his Sergeantare explaining all of this to
the Chief like this jeopardizesthis entire investigation.
And the Chief is like Iunderstand that, but I want to
send Ron to be a security detail.
So Ron is like okay, like atthe end of the day, he's gonna
do his job.
And so he goes to David Dukeand he says I'm a detective he

(19:43):
doesn't say his name, obviously.
So he says I'm a detective andI've been assigned to basically
be your security guard whileyou're in Colorado Springs.
He says to him like I don'tagree with you, know your, your
thoughts, your ideologies, but Iwill make it my mission to
ensure your safety to the bestof my ability.
So he's now security for davidduke while he's in Colorado
Springs.

(20:03):
They're at this luncheon.
David Duke is giving this talkspouting his racist white
supremacy ideologies, mind you,because he's a member of the
KKK, Undercover Ron is at thistalk listening to David Duke.
He sees real Ron pull up andhe's like what the fuck is going
on?
Because real Ron didn't haveany time to let undercover Ron

(20:24):
know.
Hey, the Chief has assigned meto be security for David Duke,
so they have to essentiallycommunicate with their eyes.
I love girlhood and real Ronhas to let him know.
Like everything's fine, likewe're good.
So the luncheon goes fine andDavid Duke doesn't realize who
real Ron is.
And so once real Ron realizesthat the investigation isn't
going to be compromised, he'slike I'm gonna have a little fun
with this.
So he takes a camera with himand he goes to David Duke and

(20:46):
he's like you know, no one willbelieve that I was working as
your security.
Like can we have a picturetogether?
David duke agrees to a picture.
Real ron asks undercover Ron totake the picture.
So they're getting ready totake this photo.
Real Ron is in the middle,David Duke is on one side and
the president of the ColoradoSprings KKK chapter is on the
other side.
And so Ron puts his arms outlike this for the audio

(21:08):
listeners.
He basically puts his armsaround David Duke and the
president, so he has his hand onthe shoulder of David Duke on
one side and then the president,his hand, is on his shoulder as
well.
David pushes Ron's arm off ofhis shoulder and he's like I'm
sorry, but I can't be seen in aphoto with you like that.
So Ron is like okay, no problem, I understand.
He goes up to undercover Ronand he's like when you hear me

(21:28):
say three, snap the photo sothey get back in line, and Ron
has his arms down and he goesone, two, three and puts his
arms back.
As he says three and undercoverRon snaps the photo.
David Duke realizes what he'sdone.
He tries to rush to the camerato get the photo, because it's a
film camera, and Ron rushes atthe same time a little bit
quicker than David Duke andsnatches the photo.

(21:48):
So he has a photo in his hand.
David Duke is pissed as fuckand he's trying to grab the
photo and Ron says to him if youtouch me I will arrest you for
assault on an officer and youwill spend five years in prison.
Ron Stallworth is a fuckingbadass.
Like can you imagine.
I know David Duke was fuming.
I know that man was mad as fuck, but Ron Stallworth is a police

(22:10):
officer so if you touch himyou're going to jail.
So David Duke doesn't try toget the photo anymore, he just
walks away.
And Ron Stallworth said that hekept this photo for years.
He moved a little bit inbetween colorado springs and in
other places and somewhere inone of his moves he lost the
photo.
But enough people in ColoradoSprings seen the photo to know
that it was real.
And at one point years laterhim and David Duke were on the

(22:33):
phone and david dukeacknowledged that the photo
existed.
During the visit of David Dukeis when they wanted to have this
march down Nevada Avenue.
Thankfully they didn't have itbecause they did not have enough
members.
They wanted it to be like thishuge march where they were like
shoulder to shoulder going downthe street and they just didn't
have enough members to to do it.
So david duke leaves colorado.
They continue the investigation.

(22:54):
Real ron is on the phonetalking to him and the chapter
president, undercover ron, isgoing to the meetings.
It gets to the point within thechapter that the chapter
president wants to step downbecause he's in the military, he
moves around a lot, he's not asconsistent and so they're
trying to figure out who shouldbecome the new president of the
KKK in the Colorado Springschapter.
They all unanimously nominateRon Stallworth to be the

(23:18):
president of the ColoradoSprings chapter of the KKK.
How crazy is this?
They nominated a black man tobe president of the KKK for
Colorado Springs.
What the fuck?
Real Ron and undercover Ron goto the chief and they tell him
about you know the nominationand how.
They want to accept it becauseas the chapter president he

(23:40):
could get way more informationabout not only what was
happening in Colorado Springsbut KKK chapters all over the US
.
So they go to the chief, theytell him about the nomination
and everything and out ofnowhere the Chief tells them
that he wants them to shut theinvestigation down.
He says that it's gone too far,they need to change the
undercover line phone number andthey need to destroy all the
evidence and all of the reportsabout this investigation.

(24:02):
Real Ron and undercover Ron arelike what the fuck like why
would we just stop thisinvestigation when we're getting
to, you know, the real meat andpotatoes of it?
If Ron Stallworth was thepresident of the klan, he could
find out so much information,more information than they were
already finding out.
And the Chief is like I don'twant this to get out because I'm
worried about the image fromthe public once they find out
that two of our officers were apart of the KKK.

(24:24):
And real Ron is like the publicwill praise us because we've
stopped cross burnings and theywanted to plan a bombing of a
gay bar.
Like they'll praise us.
They'll.
They'll congratulate us for thework that we've done.
And the Chief is like I don'twant this to get out.
You need to stop thisinvestigation and destroy all
the evidence.
Ron is continuing to you knowargue with the chief.
His Sergeant is like squeezinghis knee, basically telling him

(24:44):
to shut up.
After a little bit of arguing.
The chief is not budging and soRon is like okay, we'll stop
the investigation and he goes tohis office to destroy the
reports and everything.
So he destroys a couple of thereports and his fellow officer
leaves his office once he's surethat his fellow officer isn't
coming back.
He takes all of the evidencefrom this investigation, puts it

(25:05):
in his car, goes home and keepsall of the evidence and from
this evidence is where he wasable to write his book, which is
the blacKkK lansman.
And the book was also turnedinto the movie the blacKkK
lansman.
But the fact that the Chief wasso adamant about immediately
stopping the investigation rightwhen he was about to become the
president, it don't sit rightwith me.
Something's fishy no nemo, youknow what I mean.

(25:27):
Like I'm wondering if maybe hehad some ties to the KKK or he
knew people who had ties to itand he did not want that
information to get out.
So he said shut this shit down.
That's the only thing thatmakes sense to me, because it's
like you were co-signing thisentire investigation.
So why all of a sudden, do younot want it to continue?
It doesn't make sense.
But thankfully Ron Stallworthwas able to keep you know the

(25:49):
reports and some of the evidencefrom the investigation.
He was able to write his bookand then now there's the movie
of it as well.
And some people have, like,questioned this investigation.
They're like okay, well, whatdid you accomplish?
Who did you arrest, and RonStallworth's answer is like well
, we didn't arrest anybodybecause this wasn't a criminal
investigation, it was anintelligence investigation.
They gained a lot ofintelligence.

(26:09):
They learned about klan memberswho were at top parts of the
military.
They stopped cross burnings.
They would have been able tostop the bombing of gay bars.
They did a lot so thatminorities were not terrorized
by the activities of the KKK.
All of this, mind you, whileactively risking his life,
because had this blown up andhad their covers been blown and

(26:31):
they had realized that it was ablack man behind all of this,
you know what they would havedone, because Ron was on several
calls with the president of theKKK where he would express his
want to kill black people, andso if they would have found out
that they were being played by ablack man, they would have
killed him.
And so I just think that it'sreally admirable of Ron

(26:52):
Stallworth to put his life onthe line to gain intelligence
about the KKK and to helpprotect the minorities that were
in Colorado Springs andminorities in other cities as
well.
So, with all that being said, Ijust wanted to bring more
attention to Ron Stallworth andhis investigation and how he was
able to find out so muchinformation about the KKK.
If you would like moreinformation about Ron Stallworth

(27:12):
and his story, he does have abook and it's called the Black
Klansman.
And then there's also the moviethe Black Klansman, which is
based off of this true story andhis book as well.
Okay, I'm done talking.
I hope today's episode waseducational.
I hope everyone is having agreat day, except for that
orange drink lady, and I willsee you in the next episode.
Peace and love, talk to youlater.
The Napkin in Between, hostedby Daijné Jones, produced by

(27:35):
Daijné Jones, post-production byDaijné Jones, music by Sam
Champagne and graphics by IsmaVidal.
Don't forget to like andsubscribe.
See you next episode.