April 6, 2025 • 26 mins
TW: THERE IS MENTION OF MISCARRIAGE IN THIS EPISODE!! VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED!!!! Also, sorry the audio is a little crispy, I like to think it was the spirit of Eric Mays with us on the pod. RIP to a real one.
What happens when we misidentify our true adversaries? The sun is shining, dogs are playing, and somehow we've found ourselves in a culture war between mothers and child-free women that completely misses the point.
In today's episode, we dive deep into the recent social media trend of women celebrating their child-free status and the puzzling backlash from mothers who've personalized these celebrations as attacks. Why are we fighting each other instead of focusing on the real threats to women's autonomy? When child-free women dance to "21 with no kids," they're celebrating their own choices – not criticizing yours.
The real attack on motherhood isn't coming from TikTok. It's happening in places like Georgia, where 24-year-old Selena Chandler Scott faces up to 13 years in prison for disposing of a miscarried fetus. These laws that criminalize natural pregnancy outcomes while simultaneously cutting support for living children reveal where the true battle lies.
By fighting amongst ourselves, we're playing directly into a system designed to divide us while stripping away fundamental rights. The sooner we direct our anger at the correct targets, the sooner we can make meaningful progress toward reproductive justice.
It's time to stop demonizing women making different choices and start questioning a system that values controlling women's bodies over supporting mothers and children. Let's dilly dally less with infighting and focus more on the laws that truly threaten all women's freedoms.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Daijné (00:00):
Is this thing on?
Hello, hello, uh-oh, anotheryapper with a mic.
Hello, hello.
Hello everyone, and welcomeback to the Napkin In Between
podcast.
I'm your host, Daijné Jones.
(00:21):
I hope everyone is having agood day, except for that orange
drink lady.
As always, I want to know whatthe peak of your week was,
something that made you smile,kept you grounded, something
that you found joy in in thechaos that is the world.
As y'all know, for the lastcouple of weeks I've been saying
that things that I don't doenough are romanticize my life
and utilize my free will, and Iwas actually talking to my
roommate about this the otherday and she said it perfectly.
(00:43):
She said we just don't dillydally enough, and I was like
that is the realest shit I haveheard in such a long time.
Like when is the last time thatyou just went outside with no
real plan, no thoughts, justvibes, and instead of seizing
the day, you let the day seizeyou?
You know what I mean.
Like just do whatever comes toyour mind, as long as, obviously
(01:06):
, that doesn't hurt anybody orputting anybody at risk or
yourself at risk, but just likedoing things just for the sake
of doing them, with no real planand just doing whatever you
want.
And so this past week we had an80 degree day in the city, the
first of the year, the first inthe last couple of months.
Honestly, and for me, nothingboosts my serotonin or gives me
(01:31):
more of a will to live than whenthe sun is out.
Nice weather or the weather ingeneral can single handedly
change the entire way that Ifeel about a day.
I feel like my energy and myemotions like Bluetooth to the
weather, like if it's rainy orgloomy or cold outside, I am
immediately low energy.
(01:51):
I don't really wanna doanything like the weather
genuinely affects my day or mymood, and I know that I'm not
the only person who feels thatway.
Nor am I saying that that islike the way that everyone feels
.
I know that there are somepeople who genuinely prefer,
like the cold or the rain or thecloudy, just not my vibe.
I am so much happier when thesun is out and so, being as
(02:16):
though I've been saying like Iwant to utilize my free,
romanticize my life more.
It was the perfect day to justdilly dally, and so I decided to
take Luna with me, and so I waslike perfect day to go to the
dally, and so I decided to takeluna with me and so I was like
perfect day to go to the dogpark.
We hadn't been in a couple ofweeks because of her ear
infection, and it's her favoriteplace to go, and then also the
weather was nice.
So I was like there's probablygonna be a ton of dogs there.
Luna will love that.
So we went to the dog park andso we're coming up to the dog
(02:39):
park and there's this woman andshe's standing right in front of
the gate to the dog park withher dog.
I didn't think anything of it.
We're at the dog park.
Obviously, like I just figuredshe was going into the dog park.
So I'm approaching the gate andshe looks at me like I'm doing
something wrong and I'm like um,here I am, you see my dog, like
(02:59):
putting two and two together.
Like I was confused as to whyshe was looking at me as if I
was doing something wrong.
Before I continue this story,yes, she was, she was.
So I get closer to the gate andthe closer I get, the more
she's looking at me as if I'mdoing something wrong and I'm
like what is wrong with thislady?
But I didn't really thinkanything of it.
I'm just continuing to walktowards the gate and I get like
(03:23):
a foot or so away from the gateand she jumps back, yanks her
dog and she's like you can't getclose to me, my dog isn't
always friendly.
And I'm like why are youstanding right in front of the
dog park gate then, and why areyou at the dog park in general,
like if you know your dog isn'tfriendly?
(03:43):
What are you doing here?
And I don't mean to be like youshould keep your dog inside
then, or like not have your dogsocialize with a dog, like
that's not what I mean, but it'sjust like number one.
You're standing right in frontof the fucking dog gate.
You're standing right in frontof the entrance to the dog park.
If your dog isn't friendly,maybe don't stand there.
But also like, if your dogisn't friendly, why would you
(04:06):
bring your dog to the dog parkwhen this is the first 80 degree
day that we've had in the cityin months?
Obviously there's going to be athousand and one dogs at the
dog park.
So what are you doing here?
So I look at her and I goyou're standing right in front
of the gate.
We're trying to get into thedog park and she's like, oh
sorry, like and like pulls herdog and moves away.
And I'm just like, okay, lady,so Luna and I go into the dog
(04:28):
park.
Luna's playing, whatever,having a great time.
I guess this woman felt like itwas time to let her dog into the
dog park.
So she comes into the dog parkand obviously, for any dog
owners of anyone who's ever beento a dog park, whenever a new
dog comes into the dog park, allof the dogs go over to sniff
the dog, whatever, whatever, youknow what I mean.
(04:49):
And so she opens the gate.
It's like a two gate entrance,so like there's like this first
gate where there's like a littlebit of area, and then there's a
second gate that's into, like,the dog park.
And so when she opens the firstgate and goes into the first
little enclosure part, obviouslyall the dogs come, come running
over and the lady goes caneveryone grab their dogs?
Like, my dog isn't alwaysfriendly and I'm like, girl,
(05:12):
this is an off leash dog park,so none of us, like all the dogs
are off leash.
So now all the owners have tocome running over to the, to the
gate, to grab their dogs.
And I'm just like, what are youfucking doing here?
Like you're killing the vibe.
So all the owners, whatever, weall go to our respective dogs
and like we, we pull them back alittle bit.
Obviously they don't want to gobecause there's a new friend in
(05:33):
town.
Like they all wanted to greetthis, this dog, um, and so she
opens the second gate.
We're all still holding ourdogs.
So then, after like 30 secondsto a minute or so, everyone lets
their dogs go and she's stillholding her dog.
Her dog is still on its leash,and so all the other dogs are
like a little confused.
Honestly, I felt like becausethey were like, are you allowed
(05:54):
to play?
Or like what's happening?
So they end up all just going,like running away and and
playing together.
And so the lady like, as thedogs run away, she lets her dog
off of the leash, and so all thedogs eventually come back over
to her dog and she's likeyelling at all of the dogs to
give her dog space, because herdog isn't always friendly.
(06:15):
And I'm like, can you leave?
Like obviously all of thesedogs here want to play.
That's what the dog park isfucking for.
Why did you bring your dog hereif all you're going to do is,
like, be on high alert.
Like on the edge of your seatshe looked like she was about to
have a fucking panic attack andscreaming at all the other dogs
(06:36):
and owners to like, control ourdogs.
Mind you, our dogs aren't doinganything.
They're all being friendly,they're all playing very well
Like babes.
You're kind of the issue here.
Your dog is the commondenominator.
Maybe not bring your dog to thedog park on the first 80 degree
day that we have in the city.
So one of the dog owners walksover to her and is like hey,
like I'm a dog trainer, you know, being as though there's so
(06:58):
many dogs here today, maybetoday isn't the best day for you
to bring your dog.
Or maybe, like, you shouldbring them later on in the
evening, where there's probablygoing to be less dogs, because
it was like midday, like it waslike early afternoon, like 1: 30
or so, and so obviously peaktime for dogs to be at the dog
park.
And so he's talking to her andhe's just trying to like, tell
her.
Like you know, maybe this isn'tthe best time of day, or maybe
(07:20):
this isn't the best day ingeneral, being as though it is
the first night's day that we'vehad in a while and she got
defensive.
She was like no, my dog is fine, like he just needs some space.
Like can you guys just all givemy dog some space?
And we're all like this is anopen field, dog park, off leash,
where all the dogs we'vebrought to run around and play,
like we can try our best, but atthe same time there's so many
(07:44):
dogs here it's probably not thebest day to bring your dog or
the best time, like maybe justtry one or the other, not bring
your dog to the dog park.
If you know, your dog isn'talways friendly.
Because my thing is like ifyour dog does anything to my dog
, I will absolutely beat theshit out of you.
It's that that is theequivalent to me is like sending
(08:05):
your kid to school and there'ssomeone picking on your kid and
then you go to talk to the momand the mom is like, oh well,
it's like that's just how my kidis Okay.
So now I'm going to beat theshit out of you because you're
the one who raised your kid tobe like that.
Children are a product of theirenvironment.
You know what I mean.
And, like I told y'all, I donot play about my dog.
That is literally my daughterLike me against the world over
(08:27):
that bitch, literally.
So I was like let me just goahead and get my shit and go,
because this woman is clearlynot reading the room.
Her dog is growling at theother dogs whenever they
approach it and the thing aboutLuna is I feel like she has zero
defense skills.
Like she's just so sweet andlike just wants to play and and
(08:48):
bring joy and love to everybodythat I don't know that she would
truly defend herself if sheneeded to.
Like Luna, she's just a veryinteresting pup, which is so
funny because pits gets such abad rep, and I'm like this is
truly the sweetest dog I've everbeen around in my entire life.
Like she would not hurt a fly,honestly.
(09:09):
She also has a ton of anxietyso whenever there's a sound or a
creak or anything that scaresher, she runs to me for
protection and I'm like girl,you're supposed to be the scary
one, not me.
But I was just like let me goahead and go, because you're
you're just killing the vibe.
So Luna and I ended up leaving.
We just and sat in CentralCentral Park instead, but other
than this lady with the mean dog.
It was a very nice day and Ijust love being outside when the
(09:32):
weather is nice.
Like the sun being out and theweather being nice is literally
top two of my favorite thingsand it ain't two, you know what
I mean.
And even though the weathersince Saturday has gone back to
its regularly scheduledprogramming it's been like rainy
and gloomy and not the bestweather.
It just made me really excitedbecause summer is coming and I
just love summer, I love whenit's warm, I love being outside,
(09:54):
and so it just made me reallyexcited.
Hopefully we'll get some niceweather again soon so we can go
back outside.
That's just like dilly dallyingweather.
That's the weather that I needin order to romanticize my life
and use my free will more, likewhen it's cold, like I just want
to be inside because I'm justnaturally cold always anyway,
and so it being cold outsideit's like it doubles it and
(10:17):
gives it back to me.
You know what I mean.
So that has definitely been thepeak of my week just nicer
weather.
It makes me so excited forsummer and also, with it being
nicer outside and me dillydallying more, that is going to
be more stories for the pod,more vlogs for my personal
YouTube, just more content ingeneral, which I'm really,
really excited about as well.
So that has been the peak of myweek.
Please tell me the peak of yourweek.
(10:37):
What made you smile, what keptyou grounded, ways that you
found joy in the chaos that isthis world continuing on and
what we're gonna talk abouttoday.
For the past couple of weeks, Ihave seen a ton of videos from
mothers talking about how thereis an attack on motherhood and
people are coming at mothers orbullying mothers because they
are mothers.
(10:57):
I have seen moms say thatpeople are trying to belittle
them or chastise them becausethey are mothers, etc.
Etc.
And I think that it is timethat we have an honest
conversation, because there is amillion percent an attack on
motherhood, but not the way thaty'all are trying to frame it
and not from the people that youare trying to say that it is
from.
So let's talk about it.
(11:19):
Recently, there's been thistrend going around on TikTok to
that song that goes "21 with nokids, and there's women dancing
around celebrating the fact thatthey are child free and that's
a decision that they have beenmaking and, for some reason,
mothers have taken this trendand personalized it.
(11:40):
They have taken this trend ofwomen saying I am child free and
I am happy because that's adecision that I made, and
they're like how can I make thisabout me?
And I'm just like y'all don'tfind that odd, like that's odd.
That's really really odd,because here's the thing
(12:03):
Multiple things can andoftentimes are true at once.
Okay.
And a woman deciding not tohave children and celebrating
that decision completely fine.
And at the very same time, awoman who has decided to have
children and is happy with thatdecision also completely fine.
(12:26):
A woman being happy that she ischild free is not an attack on
mothers.
That has nothing to do withmothers because that is her
decision.
And the thing that's sodisgusting to me about this
whole thing is that, as womenwho have decided to be child
free are celebrating thatdecision and living their lives
(12:48):
and doing whatever they want todo, moms who are taking that as
a personal attack are in theircomments, trying to shame them
and be like oh you, just youdon't have kids because you
can't have kids, or you don'thave kids because you can't keep
a man, or you don't have kidsbecause you must be a lesbian,
or your uterus doesn't work orlike.
I've seen the craziest fuckingthings and it's like do you
(13:09):
understand how disgusting, firstand foremost, and also
illogical it is to say to awoman oh you don't have kids
because you can't?
If a woman doesn't have kidsbecause she's struggling with
infertility, for whatever reason, she hasn't made the choice to
be child-free.
In fact, she's trying to not bechild-free, but for whatever
(13:31):
reason she's struggling.
And so for you to use thatanother woman's struggle as a
way to try to clap back atsomeone who wasn't coming for
you in the first place anyway,can we please look in the mirror
?
Can we please ask ourselveswhat the fuck we're doing?
Like, do y'all not see howfucking weird that is?
(13:52):
And not only is it weird, it'sfucking disgusting to try to
take another woman's painbecause she's struggling with
infertility or whatever, and usethat as some sort of like
gotcha or some sort of like digat a woman who has decided that
she does not want children.
Like.
Not only is it fuckingillogical and makes no fucking
(14:15):
sense, because it doesn't applyto that woman, it is fucking
disgusting.
Second of all oh you don't havekids because you can't keep a
man.
Babes, you have kids and youcouldn't keep a man either.
You're a single mother.
Or or even worse, you have ahusband or a boyfriend or
whatever, and you're still asingle mother.
Can we please clock that tea?
(14:37):
So, like, what sense does thatmake?
Can, like, again, extremelyfucking illogical.
But also like I think that'ssome of the reason the moms are
so upset and personalizing thisshit is because some of y'all do
hate your lives.
I'm not like, can we just befor real.
Some of y'all, like the oneswho are personalizing this and
(15:00):
making this about them and beingupset about something that does
not apply to them, it'sprojection.
Like you're upset because youwish that you were the one with
no kids.
Let's like, let's just behonest, that's truly the only
logical explanation for me likeI'm sorry, you just hate your
life.
And it's like they'll see thesetrends that again have nothing
(15:21):
to do with them I will say thatseveral times this episode
because it genuinely they havenothing to do with them and
they'll personalize them becausethey are upset, they they wish
they were 20, 30, whatever withno kids, and it's like they'll
they'll respond to these trendsby, like, showing their children
(15:41):
in the frame and being like,look, look, how happy I am, look
how happy I am and I bewatching these videos and I'm
like are you trying to convinceme, or you that you're happy?
Cause you're not convincing me?
Stinka butt, it's not working.
Like if you're genuinely happy,you can just show that you know
what I mean, like you don'thave to prove your happiness in
response to something that hadnothing to do with you and kind
(16:04):
of like piggybacking off ofthis,
Chappell Roan recently did aninterview and she said that the
people that she knows withchildren aren't happy.
(16:26):
I have seen mothers take that,twist it and they're like oh my
god, she's attacking motherhood.
First of all.
Again, she said people, okay,people.
She didn't say mother.
She said people, people thatshe knows with children, are not
happy.
But they took that and theysaid oh, here's another attack
on motherhood.
Chappell Roan said all mothers,all mothers are are unhappy and
(16:49):
they hate their lives and theyhate their kids and it's like so
she said people that she knowsnot mckinley, they stay at home,
mama five, who actually doeshate her fucking life like why
are we personalizing this?
This had nothing to do with you.
She was speaking from herpersonal experience and people
that she knows, if anything, theonly people who have a right to
(17:13):
be upset but by what she said,in my opinion, are her friends,
are her real life friends,because I don't know if that's
something that they said to herand maybe they said it to her in
confidence and then she kind ofshared it with the world, so I
can understand if they would beupset that way.
That would upset me too if Itold you something in confidence
and then you went and told theinternet like, okay, valid
reason to be upset, or ifthey're kind of feeling like you
(17:36):
know what'd she say, fuck mefor?
You know what I mean, because Iwatched a little bit of the
interview and the question waslike oh, do you think that
you'll have kids?
And then she kind of was likeI'm not having kids because
everyone that I know who haskids isn't happy.
You know what I mean.
So it was like didn't reallyneed to bring up your friend's
situation.
So I can understand if theywould be upset that way.
(18:03):
But for the strangers on theinternet, the moms who are like,
oh my god, Chappell Roan issaying that I'm miserable, why
are we making this about us?
Like, why are you making itabout you?
You know what I mean.
It just it's illogical to me.
It doesn't make sense.
It doesn't make sense.
But also, she wasn't reallysaying like fuck you to
motherhood or to, you know,wanting children.
It was more of like a fuck youto the system, because the
(18:24):
system, especially the one thatwe live in right now, is making
it so much harder to want tohave kids.
First of all, the economy isfucking shit.
Having children in this economyabsolutely fucking not.
But also with the current stateof women's reproductive rights
and the way that they are tryingto criminalize abortions or
miscarriages or anything likethat like that is the true
(18:47):
attack on motherhood that we areseeing right now.
The way that they are trying tocriminalize abortions and
miscarriages that is the attackon motherhood that y'all should
be worried about, not peopledancing around because they have
decided to be child-free andnot chop around saying that.
Her personal experience withthe people that she knows in
(19:08):
real life she sees that they arenot happy.
There is a woman in Georgiaright now, 24-year-old Selena
Chandler Scott from Tifton,Georgia, in jail because she had
a miscarriage.
She was 19 weeks pregnant.
She had a miscarriage.
After her miscarriage she tookthe fetus, put it in a dumpster
(19:30):
on her way back into herapartment.
Because of the amount of bloodthat she had lost, she passed
out.
Someone called an ambulance.
They rushed her to the hospital.
There was a witness who saidthat they had seen her put
something in the dumpster.
So the police went to thedumpster, searched the dumpster,
found the fetus and, because ofthe new laws in georgia which
have given personhood to a fetusat any stage of development,
(19:54):
she was arrested and chargedwith concealing the death of
another person and abandonmentof a dead body, which, if she's
found guilty of, she could serve13 years behind bars.
Because she had a miscarriageand she threw the fetus in the
dumpster.
Mind you, they autopsied thefetus.
(20:17):
There was no sign of foul play.
There was no sign of any breathor life of the fetus before the
miscarriage.
She literally just threw thefetus in the fucking dumpster
and she was arrested, chargedand there's a possibility that
she could spend time behind bars.
(20:43):
That is the attack on motherhood.
Who knows how she was feeling?
She had a miscarriage, amiscarriage and there is no
right way I say in quotes todispose of a fetus.
Most women, when they have amiscarriage, they flush it down
the toilet, they throw it in thegarbage, like that is not out
of the norm to do, and I canunderstand.
Maybe she didn't want to flushit down the toilet, maybe she
didn't want to just throw it inthe garbage in her home as a
(21:05):
painful reminder that she hadjust had a miscarriage.
I don't know, and I can't judgeher for that, because every
woman is different, and goingthrough a miscarriage as someone
who has been through two is oneof the most painful things that
I have ever experienced in myentire life.
So I can't judge another womanfor how she decided to cope and
to heal with that traumaticexperience.
(21:27):
It's not my place to judge her,nor should it be anyone fucking
else's.
Nor should she be facingcriminal fucking charges because
, again, no sign of foul play,no sign that the fetus had ever
taken a breath of life.
Like these are the things thatwe should be infuriated about,
and instead you're upset thatwomen who have decided to be
(21:47):
child free are happy with thatdecision.
I just don't understand how weare here, how we are here
chastising and blamingchild-free women and saying that
they are attacking mothers,when our fucking government and
our laws are trying tocriminalize having a miscarriage
(22:10):
and, at the very same time,they'll say that free lunch for
students is too much.
At the same time, they'retrying to dismantle the
department of education.
At the same time, they want tocut food assistance.
But and this is the pro-lifepeople, mind you why do they
only care when the fetus isinside the body?
(22:33):
And also if a fetus is a personand has personhood?
Is that also when child supportstarts?
Is that when the father ofthese fetuses need to start
financially contributing to thelife of of the fetus if it's a
person, right?
So when?
When do those laws come intoeffect?
When do we start to make thesefathers and these men be
(22:56):
financially responsible for thechildren if they're a person?
Those are questions that needfucking answers.
Like this is why I say this isthe real attack on motherhood,
because they would never, in amillion fucking years, even
think to make men pay or befinancially responsible for
(23:16):
fucking fetuses.
It would never fucking happen,never fucking happen.
These are the things thatshould be infuriating us.
These are the things that weshould be pointing at as the
attack on mothers, but insteadyou look at the woman who says
you know what, in this economyand in this day and age with
women's reproductive rights.
I'm not having kids, and that'syour issue.
Not the system that has ledthem to make these decisions,
(23:43):
but the woman's decision itself.
I really need us to be sofucking for real.
Child free women are not yourenemy.
They are not attacking you,they are not a problem.
The system and this governmentis the problem.
That's where your focus shouldbe, because there is no reason
(24:05):
that a 19-week-old fetus thatcould not survive on its own
because she was miscarrying thiswoman was miscarrying.
You cannot reverse amiscarriage Like once you're
miscarrying, you're miscarrying.
There is nothing you can do tostop it.
So there is no reason that thisfetus that had no chance of
survival, that had never taken asingle breath of life, there's
no reason that should beconsidered more of a person than
your human children who arerunning around.
There is no reason that a fetusthat could not survive should
(24:29):
have more rights and moreprotections than your children.
As we wrap up today's episode,I need us to lock in.
We are continuing to fight oneanother rather than fighting the
system and the government, andthat's why it continues to have
so much power over us.
Child-free women are notattacking you.
(24:51):
They are not your enemy.
They are simply living theirlife and are happy to be doing
so.
Nothing wrong with that.
The issue is the government andthese systems that give more of
a personhood to a fetus than toreal, alive human children, and
the sooner we are able torealize that and call that out,
the sooner we will be able todirect our anger at the correct
(25:14):
people, because, I promise you,the child for a woman is not who
you should be upset with.
Thank you guys, so much fortuning into today's episode.
I do hope that it was helpful.
I do hope that you will lookmore into the story of Selena
Chandler Scott.
I will provide updates here andon TikTok as they are available
.
I really can't believe thatthis is like a real life story
and is like really happening.
(25:35):
I can believe it because oflike the government and the
systems and the war that thereis on women and women's
reproductive rights and theweird obsession they have with
controlling our fucking bodies.
Disappointing but notsurprising is a better way to
put it.
Like it's it's extremelydisappointing and extremely
upsetting, but not really thatsurprising.
(25:56):
Thank you, guys for tuning in.
I hope everyone is having agood day, except for that orange
drink, lady and I will talk toyou in the next episode.
Peace and love.
Talk to you later.
The Napkin in Between, hostedby Daijné Jones, produced by
Daijné Jones, post-production byDaijné Jones, music by Sam
Champagne and graphics by IsmaVidal.
Don't forget to like andsubscribe.
(26:17):
See you next episode.
Is this thing on?
Hello, hello, uh-oh, anotheryapper with a mic.
Hello, hello.
Hello everyone, and welcomeback to the Napkin In Between
podcast.
I'm your host, Daijné Jones.
(00:21):
I hope everyone is having agood day, except for that orange
drink lady.
As always, I want to know whatthe peak of your week was,
something that made you smile,kept you grounded, something
that you found joy in in thechaos that is the world.
As y'all know, for the lastcouple of weeks I've been saying
that things that I don't doenough are romanticize my life
and utilize my free will, and Iwas actually talking to my
roommate about this the otherday and she said it perfectly.
(00:43):
She said we just don't dillydally enough, and I was like
that is the realest shit I haveheard in such a long time.
Like when is the last time thatyou just went outside with no
real plan, no thoughts, justvibes, and instead of seizing
the day, you let the day seizeyou?
You know what I mean.
Like just do whatever comes toyour mind, as long as, obviously
(01:06):
, that doesn't hurt anybody orputting anybody at risk or
yourself at risk, but just likedoing things just for the sake
of doing them, with no real planand just doing whatever you
want.
And so this past week we had an80 degree day in the city, the
first of the year, the first inthe last couple of months.
Honestly, and for me, nothingboosts my serotonin or gives me
(01:31):
more of a will to live than whenthe sun is out.
Nice weather or the weather ingeneral can single handedly
change the entire way that Ifeel about a day.
I feel like my energy and myemotions like Bluetooth to the
weather, like if it's rainy orgloomy or cold outside, I am
immediately low energy.
(01:51):
I don't really wanna doanything like the weather
genuinely affects my day or mymood, and I know that I'm not
the only person who feels thatway.
Nor am I saying that that islike the way that everyone feels
.
I know that there are somepeople who genuinely prefer,
like the cold or the rain or thecloudy, just not my vibe.
I am so much happier when thesun is out and so, being as
(02:16):
though I've been saying like Iwant to utilize my free,
romanticize my life more.
It was the perfect day to justdilly dally, and so I decided to
take Luna with me, and so I waslike perfect day to go to the
dally, and so I decided to takeluna with me and so I was like
perfect day to go to the dogpark.
We hadn't been in a couple ofweeks because of her ear
infection, and it's her favoriteplace to go, and then also the
weather was nice.
So I was like there's probablygonna be a ton of dogs there.
Luna will love that.
So we went to the dog park andso we're coming up to the dog
(02:39):
park and there's this woman andshe's standing right in front of
the gate to the dog park withher dog.
I didn't think anything of it.
We're at the dog park.
Obviously, like I just figuredshe was going into the dog park.
So I'm approaching the gate andshe looks at me like I'm doing
something wrong and I'm like um,here I am, you see my dog, like
(02:59):
putting two and two together.
Like I was confused as to whyshe was looking at me as if I
was doing something wrong.
Before I continue this story,yes, she was, she was.
So I get closer to the gate andthe closer I get, the more
she's looking at me as if I'mdoing something wrong and I'm
like what is wrong with thislady?
But I didn't really thinkanything of it.
I'm just continuing to walktowards the gate and I get like
(03:23):
a foot or so away from the gateand she jumps back, yanks her
dog and she's like you can't getclose to me, my dog isn't
always friendly.
And I'm like why are youstanding right in front of the
dog park gate then, and why areyou at the dog park in general,
like if you know your dog isn'tfriendly?
(03:43):
What are you doing here?
And I don't mean to be like youshould keep your dog inside
then, or like not have your dogsocialize with a dog, like
that's not what I mean, but it'sjust like number one.
You're standing right in frontof the fucking dog gate.
You're standing right in frontof the entrance to the dog park.
If your dog isn't friendly,maybe don't stand there.
But also like, if your dogisn't friendly, why would you
(04:06):
bring your dog to the dog parkwhen this is the first 80 degree
day that we've had in the cityin months?
Obviously there's going to be athousand and one dogs at the
dog park.
So what are you doing here?
So I look at her and I goyou're standing right in front
of the gate.
We're trying to get into thedog park and she's like, oh
sorry, like and like pulls herdog and moves away.
And I'm just like, okay, lady,so Luna and I go into the dog
(04:28):
park.
Luna's playing, whatever,having a great time.
I guess this woman felt like itwas time to let her dog into the
dog park.
So she comes into the dog parkand obviously, for any dog
owners of anyone who's ever beento a dog park, whenever a new
dog comes into the dog park, allof the dogs go over to sniff
the dog, whatever, whatever, youknow what I mean.
(04:49):
And so she opens the gate.
It's like a two gate entrance,so like there's like this first
gate where there's like a littlebit of area, and then there's a
second gate that's into, like,the dog park.
And so when she opens the firstgate and goes into the first
little enclosure part, obviouslyall the dogs come, come running
over and the lady goes caneveryone grab their dogs?
Like, my dog isn't alwaysfriendly and I'm like, girl,
(05:12):
this is an off leash dog park,so none of us, like all the dogs
are off leash.
So now all the owners have tocome running over to the, to the
gate, to grab their dogs.
And I'm just like, what are youfucking doing here?
Like you're killing the vibe.
So all the owners, whatever, weall go to our respective dogs
and like we, we pull them back alittle bit.
Obviously they don't want to gobecause there's a new friend in
(05:33):
town.
Like they all wanted to greetthis, this dog, um, and so she
opens the second gate.
We're all still holding ourdogs.
So then, after like 30 secondsto a minute or so, everyone lets
their dogs go and she's stillholding her dog.
Her dog is still on its leash,and so all the other dogs are
like a little confused.
Honestly, I felt like becausethey were like, are you allowed
(05:54):
to play?
Or like what's happening?
So they end up all just going,like running away and and
playing together.
And so the lady like, as thedogs run away, she lets her dog
off of the leash, and so all thedogs eventually come back over
to her dog and she's likeyelling at all of the dogs to
give her dog space, because herdog isn't always friendly.
(06:15):
And I'm like, can you leave?
Like obviously all of thesedogs here want to play.
That's what the dog park isfucking for.
Why did you bring your dog hereif all you're going to do is,
like, be on high alert.
Like on the edge of your seatshe looked like she was about to
have a fucking panic attack andscreaming at all the other dogs
(06:36):
and owners to like, control ourdogs.
Mind you, our dogs aren't doinganything.
They're all being friendly,they're all playing very well
Like babes.
You're kind of the issue here.
Your dog is the commondenominator.
Maybe not bring your dog to thedog park on the first 80 degree
day that we have in the city.
So one of the dog owners walksover to her and is like hey,
like I'm a dog trainer, you know, being as though there's so
(06:58):
many dogs here today, maybetoday isn't the best day for you
to bring your dog.
Or maybe, like, you shouldbring them later on in the
evening, where there's probablygoing to be less dogs, because
it was like midday, like it waslike early afternoon, like 1: 30
or so, and so obviously peaktime for dogs to be at the dog
park.
And so he's talking to her andhe's just trying to like, tell
her.
Like you know, maybe this isn'tthe best time of day, or maybe
(07:20):
this isn't the best day ingeneral, being as though it is
the first night's day that we'vehad in a while and she got
defensive.
She was like no, my dog is fine, like he just needs some space.
Like can you guys just all givemy dog some space?
And we're all like this is anopen field, dog park, off leash,
where all the dogs we'vebrought to run around and play,
like we can try our best, but atthe same time there's so many
(07:44):
dogs here it's probably not thebest day to bring your dog or
the best time, like maybe justtry one or the other, not bring
your dog to the dog park.
If you know, your dog isn'talways friendly.
Because my thing is like ifyour dog does anything to my dog
, I will absolutely beat theshit out of you.
It's that that is theequivalent to me is like sending
(08:05):
your kid to school and there'ssomeone picking on your kid and
then you go to talk to the momand the mom is like, oh well,
it's like that's just how my kidis Okay.
So now I'm going to beat theshit out of you because you're
the one who raised your kid tobe like that.
Children are a product of theirenvironment.
You know what I mean.
And, like I told y'all, I donot play about my dog.
That is literally my daughterLike me against the world over
(08:27):
that bitch, literally.
So I was like let me just goahead and get my shit and go,
because this woman is clearlynot reading the room.
Her dog is growling at theother dogs whenever they
approach it and the thing aboutLuna is I feel like she has zero
defense skills.
Like she's just so sweet andlike just wants to play and and
(08:48):
bring joy and love to everybodythat I don't know that she would
truly defend herself if sheneeded to.
Like Luna, she's just a veryinteresting pup, which is so
funny because pits gets such abad rep, and I'm like this is
truly the sweetest dog I've everbeen around in my entire life.
Like she would not hurt a fly,honestly.
(09:09):
She also has a ton of anxietyso whenever there's a sound or a
creak or anything that scaresher, she runs to me for
protection and I'm like girl,you're supposed to be the scary
one, not me.
But I was just like let me goahead and go, because you're
you're just killing the vibe.
So Luna and I ended up leaving.
We just and sat in CentralCentral Park instead, but other
than this lady with the mean dog.
It was a very nice day and Ijust love being outside when the
(09:32):
weather is nice.
Like the sun being out and theweather being nice is literally
top two of my favorite thingsand it ain't two, you know what
I mean.
And even though the weathersince Saturday has gone back to
its regularly scheduledprogramming it's been like rainy
and gloomy and not the bestweather.
It just made me really excitedbecause summer is coming and I
just love summer, I love whenit's warm, I love being outside,
(09:54):
and so it just made me reallyexcited.
Hopefully we'll get some niceweather again soon so we can go
back outside.
That's just like dilly dallyingweather.
That's the weather that I needin order to romanticize my life
and use my free will more, likewhen it's cold, like I just want
to be inside because I'm justnaturally cold always anyway,
and so it being cold outsideit's like it doubles it and
(10:17):
gives it back to me.
You know what I mean.
So that has definitely been thepeak of my week just nicer
weather.
It makes me so excited forsummer and also, with it being
nicer outside and me dillydallying more, that is going to
be more stories for the pod,more vlogs for my personal
YouTube, just more content ingeneral, which I'm really,
really excited about as well.
So that has been the peak of myweek.
Please tell me the peak of yourweek.
(10:37):
What made you smile, what keptyou grounded, ways that you
found joy in the chaos that isthis world continuing on and
what we're gonna talk abouttoday.
For the past couple of weeks, Ihave seen a ton of videos from
mothers talking about how thereis an attack on motherhood and
people are coming at mothers orbullying mothers because they
are mothers.
(10:57):
I have seen moms say thatpeople are trying to belittle
them or chastise them becausethey are mothers, etc.
Etc.
And I think that it is timethat we have an honest
conversation, because there is amillion percent an attack on
motherhood, but not the way thaty'all are trying to frame it
and not from the people that youare trying to say that it is
from.
So let's talk about it.
(11:19):
Recently, there's been thistrend going around on TikTok to
that song that goes "21 with nokids, and there's women dancing
around celebrating the fact thatthey are child free and that's
a decision that they have beenmaking and, for some reason,
mothers have taken this trendand personalized it.
(11:40):
They have taken this trend ofwomen saying I am child free and
I am happy because that's adecision that I made, and
they're like how can I make thisabout me?
And I'm just like y'all don'tfind that odd, like that's odd.
That's really really odd,because here's the thing
(12:03):
Multiple things can andoftentimes are true at once.
Okay.
And a woman deciding not tohave children and celebrating
that decision completely fine.
And at the very same time, awoman who has decided to have
children and is happy with thatdecision also completely fine.
(12:26):
A woman being happy that she ischild free is not an attack on
mothers.
That has nothing to do withmothers because that is her
decision.
And the thing that's sodisgusting to me about this
whole thing is that, as womenwho have decided to be child
free are celebrating thatdecision and living their lives
(12:48):
and doing whatever they want todo, moms who are taking that as
a personal attack are in theircomments, trying to shame them
and be like oh you, just youdon't have kids because you
can't have kids, or you don'thave kids because you can't keep
a man, or you don't have kidsbecause you must be a lesbian,
or your uterus doesn't work orlike.
I've seen the craziest fuckingthings and it's like do you
(13:09):
understand how disgusting, firstand foremost, and also
illogical it is to say to awoman oh you don't have kids
because you can't?
If a woman doesn't have kidsbecause she's struggling with
infertility, for whatever reason, she hasn't made the choice to
be child-free.
In fact, she's trying to not bechild-free, but for whatever
(13:31):
reason she's struggling.
And so for you to use thatanother woman's struggle as a
way to try to clap back atsomeone who wasn't coming for
you in the first place anyway,can we please look in the mirror
?
Can we please ask ourselveswhat the fuck we're doing?
Like, do y'all not see howfucking weird that is?
(13:52):
And not only is it weird, it'sfucking disgusting to try to
take another woman's painbecause she's struggling with
infertility or whatever, and usethat as some sort of like
gotcha or some sort of like digat a woman who has decided that
she does not want children.
Like.
Not only is it fuckingillogical and makes no fucking
(14:15):
sense, because it doesn't applyto that woman, it is fucking
disgusting.
Second of all oh you don't havekids because you can't keep a
man.
Babes, you have kids and youcouldn't keep a man either.
You're a single mother.
Or or even worse, you have ahusband or a boyfriend or
whatever, and you're still asingle mother.
Can we please clock that tea?
(14:37):
So, like, what sense does thatmake?
Can, like, again, extremelyfucking illogical.
But also like I think that'ssome of the reason the moms are
so upset and personalizing thisshit is because some of y'all do
hate your lives.
I'm not like, can we just befor real.
Some of y'all, like the oneswho are personalizing this and
(15:00):
making this about them and beingupset about something that does
not apply to them, it'sprojection.
Like you're upset because youwish that you were the one with
no kids.
Let's like, let's just behonest, that's truly the only
logical explanation for me likeI'm sorry, you just hate your
life.
And it's like they'll see thesetrends that again have nothing
(15:21):
to do with them I will say thatseveral times this episode
because it genuinely they havenothing to do with them and
they'll personalize them becausethey are upset, they they wish
they were 20, 30, whatever withno kids, and it's like they'll
they'll respond to these trendsby, like, showing their children
(15:41):
in the frame and being like,look, look, how happy I am, look
how happy I am and I bewatching these videos and I'm
like are you trying to convinceme, or you that you're happy?
Cause you're not convincing me?
Stinka butt, it's not working.
Like if you're genuinely happy,you can just show that you know
what I mean, like you don'thave to prove your happiness in
response to something that hadnothing to do with you and kind
(16:04):
of like piggybacking off ofthis,
Chappell Roan recently did aninterview and she said that the
people that she knows withchildren aren't happy.
(16:26):
I have seen mothers take that,twist it and they're like oh my
god, she's attacking motherhood.
First of all.
Again, she said people, okay,people.
She didn't say mother.
She said people, people thatshe knows with children, are not
happy.
But they took that and theysaid oh, here's another attack
on motherhood.
Chappell Roan said all mothers,all mothers are are unhappy and
(16:49):
they hate their lives and theyhate their kids and it's like so
she said people that she knowsnot mckinley, they stay at home,
mama five, who actually doeshate her fucking life like why
are we personalizing this?
This had nothing to do with you.
She was speaking from herpersonal experience and people
that she knows, if anything, theonly people who have a right to
(17:13):
be upset but by what she said,in my opinion, are her friends,
are her real life friends,because I don't know if that's
something that they said to herand maybe they said it to her in
confidence and then she kind ofshared it with the world, so I
can understand if they would beupset that way.
That would upset me too if Itold you something in confidence
and then you went and told theinternet like, okay, valid
reason to be upset, or ifthey're kind of feeling like you
(17:36):
know what'd she say, fuck mefor?
You know what I mean, because Iwatched a little bit of the
interview and the question waslike oh, do you think that
you'll have kids?
And then she kind of was likeI'm not having kids because
everyone that I know who haskids isn't happy.
You know what I mean.
So it was like didn't reallyneed to bring up your friend's
situation.
So I can understand if theywould be upset that way.
(18:03):
But for the strangers on theinternet, the moms who are like,
oh my god, Chappell Roan issaying that I'm miserable, why
are we making this about us?
Like, why are you making itabout you?
You know what I mean.
It just it's illogical to me.
It doesn't make sense.
It doesn't make sense.
But also, she wasn't reallysaying like fuck you to
motherhood or to, you know,wanting children.
It was more of like a fuck youto the system, because the
(18:24):
system, especially the one thatwe live in right now, is making
it so much harder to want tohave kids.
First of all, the economy isfucking shit.
Having children in this economyabsolutely fucking not.
But also with the current stateof women's reproductive rights
and the way that they are tryingto criminalize abortions or
miscarriages or anything likethat like that is the true
(18:47):
attack on motherhood that we areseeing right now.
The way that they are trying tocriminalize abortions and
miscarriages that is the attackon motherhood that y'all should
be worried about, not peopledancing around because they have
decided to be child-free andnot chop around saying that.
Her personal experience withthe people that she knows in
(19:08):
real life she sees that they arenot happy.
There is a woman in Georgiaright now, 24-year-old Selena
Chandler Scott from Tifton,Georgia, in jail because she had
a miscarriage.
She was 19 weeks pregnant.
She had a miscarriage.
After her miscarriage she tookthe fetus, put it in a dumpster
(19:30):
on her way back into herapartment.
Because of the amount of bloodthat she had lost, she passed
out.
Someone called an ambulance.
They rushed her to the hospital.
There was a witness who saidthat they had seen her put
something in the dumpster.
So the police went to thedumpster, searched the dumpster,
found the fetus and, because ofthe new laws in georgia which
have given personhood to a fetusat any stage of development,
(19:54):
she was arrested and chargedwith concealing the death of
another person and abandonmentof a dead body, which, if she's
found guilty of, she could serve13 years behind bars.
Because she had a miscarriageand she threw the fetus in the
dumpster.
Mind you, they autopsied thefetus.
(20:17):
There was no sign of foul play.
There was no sign of any breathor life of the fetus before the
miscarriage.
She literally just threw thefetus in the fucking dumpster
and she was arrested, chargedand there's a possibility that
she could spend time behind bars.
(20:43):
That is the attack on motherhood.
Who knows how she was feeling?
She had a miscarriage, amiscarriage and there is no
right way I say in quotes todispose of a fetus.
Most women, when they have amiscarriage, they flush it down
the toilet, they throw it in thegarbage, like that is not out
of the norm to do, and I canunderstand.
Maybe she didn't want to flushit down the toilet, maybe she
didn't want to just throw it inthe garbage in her home as a
(21:05):
painful reminder that she hadjust had a miscarriage.
I don't know, and I can't judgeher for that, because every
woman is different, and goingthrough a miscarriage as someone
who has been through two is oneof the most painful things that
I have ever experienced in myentire life.
So I can't judge another womanfor how she decided to cope and
to heal with that traumaticexperience.
(21:27):
It's not my place to judge her,nor should it be anyone fucking
else's.
Nor should she be facingcriminal fucking charges because
, again, no sign of foul play,no sign that the fetus had ever
taken a breath of life.
Like these are the things thatwe should be infuriated about,
and instead you're upset thatwomen who have decided to be
(21:47):
child free are happy with thatdecision.
I just don't understand how weare here, how we are here
chastising and blamingchild-free women and saying that
they are attacking mothers,when our fucking government and
our laws are trying tocriminalize having a miscarriage
(22:10):
and, at the very same time,they'll say that free lunch for
students is too much.
At the same time, they'retrying to dismantle the
department of education.
At the same time, they want tocut food assistance.
But and this is the pro-lifepeople, mind you why do they
only care when the fetus isinside the body?
(22:33):
And also if a fetus is a personand has personhood?
Is that also when child supportstarts?
Is that when the father ofthese fetuses need to start
financially contributing to thelife of of the fetus if it's a
person, right?
So when?
When do those laws come intoeffect?
When do we start to make thesefathers and these men be
(22:56):
financially responsible for thechildren if they're a person?
Those are questions that needfucking answers.
Like this is why I say this isthe real attack on motherhood,
because they would never, in amillion fucking years, even
think to make men pay or befinancially responsible for
(23:16):
fucking fetuses.
It would never fucking happen,never fucking happen.
These are the things thatshould be infuriating us.
These are the things that weshould be pointing at as the
attack on mothers, but insteadyou look at the woman who says
you know what, in this economyand in this day and age with
women's reproductive rights.
I'm not having kids, and that'syour issue.
Not the system that has ledthem to make these decisions,
(23:43):
but the woman's decision itself.
I really need us to be sofucking for real.
Child free women are not yourenemy.
They are not attacking you,they are not a problem.
The system and this governmentis the problem.
That's where your focus shouldbe, because there is no reason
(24:05):
that a 19-week-old fetus thatcould not survive on its own
because she was miscarrying thiswoman was miscarrying.
You cannot reverse amiscarriage Like once you're
miscarrying, you're miscarrying.
There is nothing you can do tostop it.
So there is no reason that thisfetus that had no chance of
survival, that had never taken asingle breath of life, there's
no reason that should beconsidered more of a person than
your human children who arerunning around.
There is no reason that a fetusthat could not survive should
(24:29):
have more rights and moreprotections than your children.
As we wrap up today's episode,I need us to lock in.
We are continuing to fight oneanother rather than fighting the
system and the government, andthat's why it continues to have
so much power over us.
Child-free women are notattacking you.
(24:51):
They are not your enemy.
They are simply living theirlife and are happy to be doing
so.
Nothing wrong with that.
The issue is the government andthese systems that give more of
a personhood to a fetus than toreal, alive human children, and
the sooner we are able torealize that and call that out,
the sooner we will be able todirect our anger at the correct
(25:14):
people, because, I promise you,the child for a woman is not who
you should be upset with.
Thank you guys, so much fortuning into today's episode.
I do hope that it was helpful.
I do hope that you will lookmore into the story of Selena
Chandler Scott.
I will provide updates here andon TikTok as they are available
.
I really can't believe thatthis is like a real life story
and is like really happening.
(25:35):
I can believe it because oflike the government and the
systems and the war that thereis on women and women's
reproductive rights and theweird obsession they have with
controlling our fucking bodies.
Disappointing but notsurprising is a better way to
put it.
Like it's it's extremelydisappointing and extremely
upsetting, but not really thatsurprising.
(25:56):
Thank you, guys for tuning in.
I hope everyone is having agood day, except for that orange
drink, lady and I will talk toyou in the next episode.
Peace and love.
Talk to you later.
The Napkin in Between, hostedby Daijné Jones, produced by
Daijné Jones, post-production byDaijné Jones, music by Sam
Champagne and graphics by IsmaVidal.
Don't forget to like andsubscribe.
(26:17):
See you next episode.
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