March 18, 2025 • 27 mins
Miguel Munoz from Digital Geko shares insights about Guatemala's growing position in the nearshore tech ecosystem and why it remains Central America's "best-kept secret" for software development partnerships. As the most populated country in Central America with economic stability and a strong talent pool, Guatemala offers compelling advantages for companies seeking quality development services at competitive rates.
• Guatemala has the largest population in Central America creating a substantial talent pool
• The country maintains economic stability with consistent exchange rates and banking systems
• Guatemalans have a "we have to do everything" mentality that creates flexibility and innovation
• Digital Geko has evolved from mobile development to full-stack solutions over its 16-year history
• Key universities including Universidad San Carlos, Universidad del Valle, and Mesoamericana produce strong tech graduates
• Long-term client relationships built on honest communication provide the most value
• AI represents another interface that requires integration with business processes and data
• Guatemala offers rich cultural experiences from Mayan ruins at Tikal to colonial Antigua Guatemala
Want to connect with Miguel? Visit digitalgeko.com or email him at mmunoz@digitalgeko.com to explore business opportunities or learn more about Guatemala's tech ecosystem.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brian Samson (00:04):
Welcome.
Welcome everyone to anotherepisode of the Nearshore Cafe
(00:31):
podcast.
I'm your host, Brian Samson,and if you are interested in
Central America, in particularGuatemala, wow, this show is
going to be chock full of goodinformation.
Before we introduce our guest,I'd like to thank our sponsor,
plug Technologies.
Plugg Tech a great way toconnect software engineers and
(00:55):
other talented people from LatinAmerica to growing US companies
.
Without further ado, let meintroduce our guest, Miguel
Munoz from Digital Geko.
Miguel, great to have you.
Thank you very much, brian, tohave me in your podcast.
Miguel Munoz (01:09):
I appreciate it and thank you for the
opportunity.
Brian Samson (01:12):
As we mentioned earlier, in the show or in the
pre-show, you are the firstleader you are working with and
talking to from Guatemala, sothis is a groundbreaking podcast
.
If you could, you know for ouraudience myself included, who've
never been in the countrybefore can you just give some
like macro, what is?
(01:33):
Where is it you know?
What should people know aboutthe country?
What should people know aboutthe evolving tech industry there
?
Miguel Munoz (01:40):
Sure, and thank you for allowing Guatemala also
on your call.
It took too long to have to sayI'm kidding, thank you.
You know it's a question thatwe get a lot.
Where is Guatemala?
Because everyone in the US orNorth America they hear about
other countries like Costa Rica,which has a great advertising,
I must say but Guatemala, whatyou need to know about Guatemala
(02:00):
is that it has been a prettystable country in economic terms
.
About Guatemala is that it hasbeen a pretty stable country in
economic terms.
Just today I was talking to abanker and he says that, for
example, the exchange rate ispretty stable.
It has a system of banking andlaws that keeps it very stable.
It has the largest populationin Central America.
(02:20):
There is a lot of talent andone of the things is we have to
do everything mentality inGuatemala.
Sometimes we're criticizedbecause we're not so specialized
, but we need to provide thewhole service and the whole
activities for our customers,which gives us flexibility, and
we have to come up with newideas and solutions.
So we are very hard workers inGuatemala, to be honest, and you
(02:41):
can see that in differentindustries in the US, for
example, from roofing,construction and also software
definitely.
So we see it as a best-keptsecret around the region because
we have the volume, the economyand we're really next door.
Brian Samson (02:57):
Yeah, I think that's really interesting.
We think about the term talentarbitrage, a lot of labor
arbitrage, and what you'rereally saying there is you're
getting more value than the cost.
That's really how people arethinking about that, and as
other countries in Latin Americamaybe get more expensive, the
(03:18):
gap between value and coststarts to strain.
Miguel Munoz (03:22):
Correct, and there's competition, because you
might want to go to these othercountries but everybody's
looking at those, so they'remore expensive.
Definitely they do have talent,I have to say.
But if, because of a maybeunfounded fear, you will look at
these other countries andGuatemala, el Salvador and
Honduras has great talent and soit's a good opportunity, with
(03:43):
all the benefits of time zoneand all the near shorter we know
about right.
Brian Samson (03:48):
Yeah, I think the thing that probably impacts it
more than anything is reputation, right.
So you know, we see thissometimes with Mexico or
Colombia, and sometimes it'sjust the media or movies that we
might watch in the States, orNetflix shows about narco, and
it works.
It happened 40 years ago, butthe reputation is still there,
(04:12):
which kind of controls prices.
What do you think is the?
When people might hear ofGuatemala, what do you think
they're thinking from areputation standpoint?
Miguel Munoz (04:24):
Most of the times they don't really know.
I mean, some people don't knowwhere it is at all, so that's
their geography course orclasses that didn't work out,
but they don't know about it.
That's the thing.
So, as you said, they have thetop of mind of Costa Rica and I
even have family over there.
So nothing against them.
I love it, I was there lastweek but they have some
complications, also in terms oflegal stuff, but they don't have
(04:47):
the attention right.
You have Intel, motorola andall the big guys there, so there
is some energy that is createdaround those things.
But Guatemala they need to jumpa couple of hoops to get to say
, okay, where is it and whatkind of talent?
So then we can start sayingabout the type of companies that
we serve in Europe or thefintech area where we have
(05:09):
worked, and so they say, okay,you know our culture, you know
our type of demands and what weneed.
So it's a good thing.
We just need to prove we existand that's good.
Brian Samson (05:20):
And that's really interesting.
Costa Rica will probably comeup a little bit on the on this
call and you're right, theyprobably have the best
advertising of you know any anycountry in marketing.
But actually with all thatattention comes a labor
constriction right.
There's less talent and you youmentioned something I actually
(05:42):
didn't know.
So Guatemala is the mostpopulated country in Central
America.
What does that mean for laborsupply, and maybe labor that is
more focused on domesticactivity versus labor that could
be exported for nearshoring?
Miguel Munoz (05:57):
Well, there is because, as you were saying,
because of pandemic, we nowcompete with everyone.
So we have people from smalltowns, we have people already in
Costa Rica and Colombia, so allover the place, just like any
other company, right.
But what it does is that thetalent that is inside the
country or rural towns or othergrowing towns, they already have
(06:23):
success into working for UScompanies Canadian, poland, so
we've had people that they'revery good, they get their
English to a good level and thenthey can start work from to
these other places, right.
So what it does, it has pushedthe economy for those different
areas that just the main city,which is Guatemala City.
There are others working anduniversities have seen that for
(06:45):
a while and they have alreadyimplemented different branches
of them.
There's even universities thatjust work over there, right.
So that has created somemomentum, some pretty good
momentum.
Brian Samson (06:54):
Yeah, well, let's talk a little more about you,
Miguel.
Tell us about your careerjourney and what led to Digital.
Miguel Munoz (07:02):
Geko Awesome.
I'll keep it short If I do not,please stop me anytime.
So I've always been in the ITindustry in terms of initially
as a consultant for ArthurAnderson and Price it all, you
see implementing systems, thenselling those.
I did an MBA in London so thatgave me another perspective,
which is very good.
(07:23):
Then I worked for Microsoftselling licensing and stuff.
I did work for a bank for awhile.
There are some customers butdifferent cultures, so I was
more of the entrepreneur and westarted working with my partner.
At the time that was already 16years ago.
We started with some customersin Europe because my partner
used to live there and that wasa great adventure like that.
(07:46):
And we have been working withmobile since BlackBerry was the
thing and the manager for thegeneral manager of the bank had
the BlackBerry, so we needed todevelop those things.
So we went to Android, ios, ofcourse, microsoft and some
mobile applications, but for TVapplications and we're doing
mostly custom development.
So that was a nice venture.
(08:08):
And three years ago, four yearsago I joined with another group
some friends, they're Frenchand they have another strong arm
which is digital marketing.
So now Digital Geko is joinedwith TPP it's called and we have
a nice group and we servetelcos, banks, insurance
companies, retail in the region.
(08:29):
Right, we've gone to establishcompanies in each of those
countries and recently Chile too, and, as I told you, we have
people all over the place,someone even in Barcelona, in
Montreal.
I forgot to say that I got tolive a couple of years in
Montreal, 2014 to 16.
So great adventure.
I love the calls yeah, that wasit so lots of as an
(08:57):
entrepreneur.
You know, right, it's ups anddowns.
I wouldn't trade it, I wouldhave done differently, maybe to
do better sometimes, but I guessI had to learn like that.
And we've been involved alsowith the local industry and
tried to reach more of jointventures with other companies.
Right, we are a small countryand if we don't join with other
(09:19):
either slash competitors orfriends, we cannot go to markets
like the US.
Right, thank God, we haveworked for some fintechs in the
US and created different things,even from AR applications
before the Pokemon game.
So my customer, john Fowler, atthe time he said you know what?
We invented the Pokemon game.
Too bad, it wasn't so real.
(09:40):
We did something like thatbecause we like to tinker with
things and that's it.
And then so we keep on growingin the region, serving banks and
always looking for customers inour northern countries.
Brian Samson (09:53):
Yeah, tell me about the founding of Digital
Geko.
How did this come about?
And this is maybe 15 years ago.
Did I read that right?
16?
Miguel Munoz (10:03):
now Well founding.
They always ask me why DigitalGeko the name?
To be honest, we were fed upwith names like Soporte,
tecnologia or names that justnuts and bolts right.
So let's come up with a nicecreature, something that funny.
Let's change the Geko towithout the C, so Digital Geko,
and the domain was available.
(10:23):
So we went for it right.
So we got that one Again.
We started with my partner, whowas still my friend from school.
We met at three years old youcan imagine we're still friends
and it was a time when he cameback from Europe, I was changing
jobs and we, of course, weretalking about starting up a
business.
For a while, the bar was not anoption.
(10:44):
At the end of the day, you know, it's always tempting but not
profitable for us.
So we said let's, let's, let'sstart this up.
And, funny enough, there's a.
There was an office that thatwe could use at the time, and
the first project was for ahundred thousand dollars, so
that that was the breaker right.
So we and then, and then theroller coaster to this.
Brian Samson (11:06):
Yeah, you always remember the first project.
Everyone kind of needs thatfirst break.
And was the client in theStates or they were?
Miguel Munoz (11:14):
That was we had the first project was an
insurance company, the wholesystem, this one which was an
NGO for health, and the thirdone was one in the Netherlands.
Brian Samson (11:25):
Wow.
Miguel Munoz (11:25):
So because my friend met him and we started
working for him, so like threeyears after, four years after we
started up, there was anopportunity.
So he went even to theNetherlands and we even started,
we founded a company in theNetherlands and we started
exporting people directly.
Right, we took the goodengineers and sent them there
(11:47):
from Guatemala and Costa Rica.
So that was also pretty good.
I had customers in France, theNetherlands, the UK, a little
fewer.
Brian Samson (11:57):
Yeah, and as you've talked about NGOs as
customers, you've talked aboutbanks, telcos.
Can you talk about how yourmaybe core services and core
customers changed over the years?
And this is probably a lessonfor any service provider
anywhere in the world.
You know is services can getcomplicated in saying yes and
(12:17):
saying no.
Miguel Munoz (12:19):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
To be honest, the mostfulfilling customers are the
ones that have, where we buildup a relation, some mutual
respect, and one of the coupleof the banks that we work with
we have been working sinceBlackBerry again, so the good
things about that is, well, youhave to come up with new
(12:41):
solutions, you have to take onsome challenges, but, most
importantly, stay with opencommunications.
That's, for me, the key, beinghonest.
Importantly, stay with opencommunications, that's, for me,
the key, being honest.
And when sometimes you have totake responsibility of your
mistakes, the customer willappreciate that, and I rather
have the customer that says OK,Miguel, I got you.
This is something that didn't gowell, but you had the guts to
(13:04):
tell me face to face and youkept on going.
So that's very valuable, ofcourse, and I think this is
something very important forNearshore also, because you've
had some customers in the USthat need to get that trust.
For example, hiring onlyfreelancers.
That can be tricky, right, youneed to understand the culture.
But also there is momentum inknowing the company and really
(13:29):
taking the long road right,because you can get a developer
pretty easy and change thecompanies, but there is value
into building those long-termrelations with a company, even
if it's small compared to others, of course, but that's the most
important thing, customers willhave different opinions change
small project, big projects andall sorts of it.
Brian Samson (13:52):
Yeah, Miguel, if you don't mind, tell me more
about the talent at Digital Geko.
Is it mostly software engineers, and what kind of engineers?
Miguel Munoz (14:01):
Sure, we're mostly software development.
What we do is teams, teams fordevelopment.
We do have some customdevelopment, but we rather put
teams so engagements of sixmonths, 12 months, so we can
maintain the people Because, asyou know, there is a lot of
shifts and people move around.
(14:21):
But the value that we bring isprecisely understanding them and
really milking a culture forthe company.
So it's hard because they'reall remote.
But my HR team, I have themconstantly saying we are a
culture, we are a team, we'renot a family.
It's a different thing.
We're a culture.
And how we can have them grow,that's their main.
(14:44):
Well, everyone's main thing.
Right, but we push them to growand we know that the relation
might not stay for long.
Right, because people willchange jobs, and that's okay.
But the time that they're withus, we want them to grow and
really learn and communicate andall the soft skills that we
want.
But that's the way we see it.
(15:05):
Sometimes I was told that wewere a school company so they
would stay for a while and thengo.
Now, every company is like that.
The thing is, how important istheir lifetime during the work
with Geko, right?
So that's kind of the culture.
I nag my HR team every day.
Brian Samson (15:22):
I would imagine you built relationships with
some of the local technicaluniversities and CS programs to
nurture the talent, recruitthose graduates.
Miguel Munoz (15:33):
Yes, yes, we already know which are our best
universities for what type oftechnology we have full stacks,
mobile developers, of course, isour strength, and of course,
we're partnering with AWS andother companies.
So we're really into cloud,which has been beneficial to
some customers already in thebanking sector.
(15:53):
But, yeah, we develop.
I work a lot on the culture andit's because, as I tell them,
I've had other lives and what isimportant is having that period
of time with people who like towork and be okay.
Brian Samson (16:09):
Yeah, yeah, If you don't mind, could you share
some of those universities thatyou've specifically appreciated?
Miguel Munoz (16:16):
Sure Well one of the national ones, Universidad
San Carlos.
They have good, good base,they're strong.
Universidad del Valle they haveEnglish, so it's some good
demand.
Then I can say Mesoamericana.
This is the one that's based alot in Quetzaltenango, a
secondary city.
That one's pretty good too.
Brian Samson (16:39):
Okay, great, great Talk about AI.
How is this impacting yourworld?
Miguel Munoz (16:47):
Well, we've seen the sun come out many times
already, right?
So, as I tell people, it'sdigital transformation, or
whatever you want to call it.
We keep doing similar things,right, not really automating
things.
So what we did is we have acompany, we created a whole unit
with AI, and what we areunderstanding from some
(17:08):
customers in Chile and anotherguy we met in Chicago is that
there's a lot of startupsoffering it because it's going
to be an easy way in, right, butthe value of AI that we see is
we need to understand the wholeprocess.
I see it as another front end.
Right, we used to do web, we domobile, we do AI too.
(17:28):
But what's important about allthese front ends is the
automatization automation, sorry, for the whole process.
Right, you need to have theconversation with the AI, but
there's some action to be there,and then behind that, you need
the data.
So we got the other componentsto create those processes
(17:49):
processes and we have been doingit with other technologies,
right.
So, but I know it's pretty sexyand we have already implemented
for retail sales, for bookingsand stuff.
So we have our own agentcreation tool that we've
developed and I think it's goingto go that way right, it's up
for grabs.
We can say anything, but it'sjust another way that we're
(18:11):
going to be introducing newvalue or more digital products
or any other thing solutions forour customers.
Brian Samson (18:18):
Yeah, you know, I was talking to a friend of mine
who's a CTO in San Francisco theother day and asking him you
know, does this, does AI meanthe death of the mid-level
engineer?
And he's like, actually no, not, not for a while, cause there's
a lot of connection to do.
You know, you're reallyintegrating things.
You've got.
There's a lot of complexity,much more complexity now that
(18:40):
you have to understand, as, asyou connect, do you?
Do you see some, some truth inthat statement?
Totally.
Miguel Munoz (18:47):
It could be scary because we don't really know.
I mean, we use it as copilotfor development of our chat tool
too.
But yes, I don't want to beskeptical.
But there has been other waves,as you've seen in the market.
Now the front end is easier.
Now with this Flutter you cando multi-platform.
So there will be advancements,definitely, and there will be a
(19:10):
change into what engineers needto learn.
But what we need is keysolutions to the business right.
When I get approached by orwhen I approach a customer, I
always say there has to be asolution, there has to be
business solution, and thatrules everything.
Technology, of course.
They say, but how much is itgoing to cost me an app that
(19:32):
does A to B?
First of all I say, yeah, youknow, they're going to cost you
like three more times themarketing side.
If it's a game, it's going tobe like 10 times.
But then the reality is does itmake business sense?
Brian Samson (19:43):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's right.
You know, my prediction and Ihope this is true is that this
will create a lot moreentrepreneurs, because the
burden to build a business nowis dramatically reduced, and
maybe even kind of democratizeentrepreneurship across the
Americas.
You know you could.
(20:03):
A senior engineer who wants tostart something in Guatemala has
the same opportunity and chanceas somebody in New York City or
Montreal or wherever.
Miguel Munoz (20:13):
I totally agree with you, and it's I think it's
doing that just like webwebmasters right, though, when
the web started, just creatingfive pages was very expensive,
and now you get the weeks, youget the shopify, you get all
those things.
It has created also businessesfor a lot of people, and I think
that's good.
The thing is how it's going tobe for for us, the b2b's.
(20:36):
Uh, most likely, I think and Iwant to hear your opinion too is
is it going to be like they'regoing to go for the small
businesses or they're going totrust a company that has been
doing this for a while?
Brian Samson (20:53):
I think the quote that used to say 50 years ago of
you never get fired for hiringan IBM, I think that still
applies today.
Large companies are largebuyers and you know, and as I've
in my own career, as I've soldto large organizations, I think
risk is the most important thingfor them.
Right Is, play it safe, don'tdo anything that's going to
(21:18):
break it.
So I don't see a lot of changethere, but I see a lot of fast
moving opportunities from smalland medium-sized businesses
selling to small andmedium-sized businesses and we
need to really the.
Miguel Munoz (21:33):
The way I joke about it is like the rubik's
cube, right, we still need tofind out how that turns out, but
my experience was that therewas this guy from Heinz, no,
heinz.
Uh, catch it Heinz and not CarlHeinz, sorry from Heinz, a
company worldwide.
Uh, has the under grasp, heinz.
I was close enough.
So there is this guy from crapHeinz.
(21:55):
He was saying that there aresmall AIs and that's a problem,
because a large company does notneed so many suppliers, right,
they just need someone that cando everything.
That's why that's the way we'reheading to.
So we are a supplier of thoseAIs and then gather the data
with the platform they need andhelp them out with that.
(22:16):
Totally agree with you.
There's other opportunities andpeople are turning into this
and hopefully that's another waywe plan to catch.
Brian Samson (22:24):
That's cool.
I like it.
I like it, Miguel.
Tell us more about the cultureand let's even get a little more
specific.
People that might listen tothis podcast are like you know
what?
Next on my list of places tovisit is Guatemala.
Where should they go?
What should they try?
(22:45):
Tell us about the food and allthat stuff.
Miguel Munoz (22:48):
So about coming to Guatemala as a tourist?
You mean, okay, I thought youwere saying that.
Well, there are very niceplaces.
You should definitely go toTikal, which is the largest Maya
ruins area that you can visit.
It's an awesome trip.
You're in the middle of thejungle and really discovering
the ruins.
(23:08):
You need a lot of imaginationtoo, but it's an awesome place,
definitely.
You know they've discovered thelargest pyramid in the world
right now, which is up northfrom Guatemala, close to the
Mexican border.
To get there you need ahelicopter or a lot of patience,
because you'll find mosquitoes.
So if you're really intoadventure, go there.
Otherwise, you can go to Tikal.
(23:28):
That's definitely a must-go.
Then we have Antigua, guatemala,which is pretty close to
Guatemala City, and it's acolonial city.
That's pretty nice, but thereare many other places the
beaches, as it is a smallcountry, but we have mountains,
so you can go.
Climb volcanoes you can see anactive volcano pretty close.
(23:49):
That's an awesome adventure.
If you go to Tikal and you wakeup early, at 4 am, you can go
to a tall pyramid and you cansee the sunrise in the jungle
and that's amazing.
What else Food is?
I like it.
It's very spicy not as spicy asMexico, of course and there's
always this talk about tamales.
Yeah, we have tamales, justlike that, but there's a there's
(24:11):
a wide variety.
And, doctor, definitely staywith the agencies that have the
tour if this is your first timein Guatemala, but come and find
out for yourselves right, let'snot hear it.
Brian Samson (24:27):
Just come in, look around and see it for
yourselves.
Are there any restaurants thatyou'd care to plug on the show?
You know anything, say inGuatemala City or anywhere else,
that like you got it.
This is my favorite restaurant.
You must try it.
Miguel Munoz (24:38):
Well, if you want, want some meat, you have to go
to montanos montanos, and youcannot.
It's always good.
It's always good.
And I'm trying to think aboutthe other one that says hi, we
went with my mother recently.
I'll I'll I have to think aboutit.
We'll have to put it in theshow notes.
But, to be honest, there's somereally good restaurants and
even hotels.
They have a have all the, allthe brands here and their food
(25:02):
is certainly good.
And if you're adventurous, ofcourse you have to try tortillas
, local ones, not like mexicans,but just again, always the
issue who invented it doesn'tmatter, just try them.
I don't want any two fightswith them.
Brian Samson (25:15):
And the spices, the spicy food, is good too we
don't want any, any fights onthe show, but come, come on.
You've got to tell me thatGuatemala has the best tamales
and tortillas right, exactly.
Miguel Munoz (25:26):
But tortillas are good, I mean, and coffee, that's
the biggest thing.
But you know what?
Essentially, one of theproblems from Central America is
that we got separated.
That's the problem.
Otherwise, it's a large economy.
I mean, if you gather all thecountries and there's talent
everywhere.
The bad decision was thinkingthat it would be good to be
(25:49):
different.
Right, we're all the same.
To be honest, again, I told youI have family in Costa Rica,
honduras, el Salvador, so it'sall mixed.
Brian Samson (25:57):
Yeah, I think that's great, Miguel.
Where can people find you andwhere can they find Digital Geko
if they'd like to connect withyou?
Miguel Munoz (26:04):
Sure, I appreciate it.
So the website is Digital Geko.
You just write it G-E-K-O dotcom.
Send me an email there.
Or my personal email is at moon, without the actual genesis
right At Digital Geko dot com.
Without the actual the NSEsright At digitalgekocom.
And if you want to know abouttortillas, write to me.
Or if you want to explorebusiness, more than welcome.
Brian Samson (26:27):
Love it, Miguel.
Great show.
This is a lot of fun.
I learned a lot about Guatemalaand I know our audience well
too.
Thank you so much for being aguest today.
Miguel Munoz (26:37):
Oh, thank you, Brian.
I really appreciate the jobyou're doing with the show.
I'm a follower and if you wantto talk about other companies, I
can join them or I can comeback to anytime.
Okay, and of course, you'remore than welcome to come to
Guatemala.
Yeah, I'm sure you're aboutwhen are you located?
Brian Samson (26:55):
I'm actually in Hawaii, but if.
I make'm out there.
I will definitely look you up.
I was going to say it's afive-hour flight not for you,
but let's say that for 90% ofpeople it's a little closer.
Miguel Munoz (27:10):
Exactly, it's pretty close.
Thank you very much, brian.
I appreciate it a lot.
Brian Samson (27:14):
This is the Nearshore Cafe podcast sponsored
by Plug Technologies pluggtech.
Thanks again for listening andwe'll see you next time.
Welcome.
Welcome everyone to anotherepisode of the Nearshore Cafe
(00:31):
podcast.
I'm your host, Brian Samson,and if you are interested in
Central America, in particularGuatemala, wow, this show is
going to be chock full of goodinformation.
Before we introduce our guest,I'd like to thank our sponsor,
plug Technologies.
Plugg Tech a great way toconnect software engineers and
(00:55):
other talented people from LatinAmerica to growing US companies
.
Without further ado, let meintroduce our guest, Miguel
Munoz from Digital Geko.
Miguel, great to have you.
Thank you very much, brian, tohave me in your podcast.
Miguel Munoz (01:09):
I appreciate it and thank you for the
opportunity.
Brian Samson (01:12):
As we mentioned earlier, in the show or in the
pre-show, you are the firstleader you are working with and
talking to from Guatemala, sothis is a groundbreaking podcast
.
If you could, you know for ouraudience myself included, who've
never been in the countrybefore can you just give some
like macro, what is?
(01:33):
Where is it you know?
What should people know aboutthe country?
What should people know aboutthe evolving tech industry there
?
Miguel Munoz (01:40):
Sure, and thank you for allowing Guatemala also
on your call.
It took too long to have to sayI'm kidding, thank you.
You know it's a question thatwe get a lot.
Where is Guatemala?
Because everyone in the US orNorth America they hear about
other countries like Costa Rica,which has a great advertising,
I must say but Guatemala, whatyou need to know about Guatemala
(02:00):
is that it has been a prettystable country in economic terms
.
About Guatemala is that it hasbeen a pretty stable country in
economic terms.
Just today I was talking to abanker and he says that, for
example, the exchange rate ispretty stable.
It has a system of banking andlaws that keeps it very stable.
It has the largest populationin Central America.
(02:20):
There is a lot of talent andone of the things is we have to
do everything mentality inGuatemala.
Sometimes we're criticizedbecause we're not so specialized
, but we need to provide thewhole service and the whole
activities for our customers,which gives us flexibility, and
we have to come up with newideas and solutions.
So we are very hard workers inGuatemala, to be honest, and you
(02:41):
can see that in differentindustries in the US, for
example, from roofing,construction and also software
definitely.
So we see it as a best-keptsecret around the region because
we have the volume, the economyand we're really next door.
Brian Samson (02:57):
Yeah, I think that's really interesting.
We think about the term talentarbitrage, a lot of labor
arbitrage, and what you'rereally saying there is you're
getting more value than the cost.
That's really how people arethinking about that, and as
other countries in Latin Americamaybe get more expensive, the
(03:18):
gap between value and coststarts to strain.
Miguel Munoz (03:22):
Correct, and there's competition, because you
might want to go to these othercountries but everybody's
looking at those, so they'remore expensive.
Definitely they do have talent,I have to say.
But if, because of a maybeunfounded fear, you will look at
these other countries andGuatemala, el Salvador and
Honduras has great talent and soit's a good opportunity, with
(03:43):
all the benefits of time zoneand all the near shorter we know
about right.
Brian Samson (03:48):
Yeah, I think the thing that probably impacts it
more than anything is reputation, right.
So you know, we see thissometimes with Mexico or
Colombia, and sometimes it'sjust the media or movies that we
might watch in the States, orNetflix shows about narco, and
it works.
It happened 40 years ago, butthe reputation is still there,
(04:12):
which kind of controls prices.
What do you think is the?
When people might hear ofGuatemala, what do you think
they're thinking from areputation standpoint?
Miguel Munoz (04:24):
Most of the times they don't really know.
I mean, some people don't knowwhere it is at all, so that's
their geography course orclasses that didn't work out,
but they don't know about it.
That's the thing.
So, as you said, they have thetop of mind of Costa Rica and I
even have family over there.
So nothing against them.
I love it, I was there lastweek but they have some
complications, also in terms oflegal stuff, but they don't have
(04:47):
the attention right.
You have Intel, motorola andall the big guys there, so there
is some energy that is createdaround those things.
But Guatemala they need to jumpa couple of hoops to get to say
, okay, where is it and whatkind of talent?
So then we can start sayingabout the type of companies that
we serve in Europe or thefintech area where we have
(05:09):
worked, and so they say, okay,you know our culture, you know
our type of demands and what weneed.
So it's a good thing.
We just need to prove we existand that's good.
Brian Samson (05:20):
And that's really interesting.
Costa Rica will probably comeup a little bit on the on this
call and you're right, theyprobably have the best
advertising of you know any anycountry in marketing.
But actually with all thatattention comes a labor
constriction right.
There's less talent and you youmentioned something I actually
(05:42):
didn't know.
So Guatemala is the mostpopulated country in Central
America.
What does that mean for laborsupply, and maybe labor that is
more focused on domesticactivity versus labor that could
be exported for nearshoring?
Miguel Munoz (05:57):
Well, there is because, as you were saying,
because of pandemic, we nowcompete with everyone.
So we have people from smalltowns, we have people already in
Costa Rica and Colombia, so allover the place, just like any
other company, right.
But what it does is that thetalent that is inside the
country or rural towns or othergrowing towns, they already have
(06:23):
success into working for UScompanies Canadian, poland, so
we've had people that they'revery good, they get their
English to a good level and thenthey can start work from to
these other places, right.
So what it does, it has pushedthe economy for those different
areas that just the main city,which is Guatemala City.
There are others working anduniversities have seen that for
(06:45):
a while and they have alreadyimplemented different branches
of them.
There's even universities thatjust work over there, right.
So that has created somemomentum, some pretty good
momentum.
Brian Samson (06:54):
Yeah, well, let's talk a little more about you,
Miguel.
Tell us about your careerjourney and what led to Digital.
Miguel Munoz (07:02):
Geko Awesome.
I'll keep it short If I do not,please stop me anytime.
So I've always been in the ITindustry in terms of initially
as a consultant for ArthurAnderson and Price it all, you
see implementing systems, thenselling those.
I did an MBA in London so thatgave me another perspective,
which is very good.
(07:23):
Then I worked for Microsoftselling licensing and stuff.
I did work for a bank for awhile.
There are some customers butdifferent cultures, so I was
more of the entrepreneur and westarted working with my partner.
At the time that was already 16years ago.
We started with some customersin Europe because my partner
used to live there and that wasa great adventure like that.
(07:46):
And we have been working withmobile since BlackBerry was the
thing and the manager for thegeneral manager of the bank had
the BlackBerry, so we needed todevelop those things.
So we went to Android, ios, ofcourse, microsoft and some
mobile applications, but for TVapplications and we're doing
mostly custom development.
So that was a nice venture.
(08:08):
And three years ago, four yearsago I joined with another group
some friends, they're Frenchand they have another strong arm
which is digital marketing.
So now Digital Geko is joinedwith TPP it's called and we have
a nice group and we servetelcos, banks, insurance
companies, retail in the region.
(08:29):
Right, we've gone to establishcompanies in each of those
countries and recently Chile too, and, as I told you, we have
people all over the place,someone even in Barcelona, in
Montreal.
I forgot to say that I got tolive a couple of years in
Montreal, 2014 to 16.
So great adventure.
I love the calls yeah, that wasit so lots of as an
(08:57):
entrepreneur.
You know, right, it's ups anddowns.
I wouldn't trade it, I wouldhave done differently, maybe to
do better sometimes, but I guessI had to learn like that.
And we've been involved alsowith the local industry and
tried to reach more of jointventures with other companies.
Right, we are a small countryand if we don't join with other
(09:19):
either slash competitors orfriends, we cannot go to markets
like the US.
Right, thank God, we haveworked for some fintechs in the
US and created different things,even from AR applications
before the Pokemon game.
So my customer, john Fowler, atthe time he said you know what?
We invented the Pokemon game.
Too bad, it wasn't so real.
(09:40):
We did something like thatbecause we like to tinker with
things and that's it.
And then so we keep on growingin the region, serving banks and
always looking for customers inour northern countries.
Brian Samson (09:53):
Yeah, tell me about the founding of Digital
Geko.
How did this come about?
And this is maybe 15 years ago.
Did I read that right?
16?
Miguel Munoz (10:03):
now Well founding.
They always ask me why DigitalGeko the name?
To be honest, we were fed upwith names like Soporte,
tecnologia or names that justnuts and bolts right.
So let's come up with a nicecreature, something that funny.
Let's change the Geko towithout the C, so Digital Geko,
and the domain was available.
(10:23):
So we went for it right.
So we got that one Again.
We started with my partner, whowas still my friend from school.
We met at three years old youcan imagine we're still friends
and it was a time when he cameback from Europe, I was changing
jobs and we, of course, weretalking about starting up a
business.
For a while, the bar was not anoption.
(10:44):
At the end of the day, you know, it's always tempting but not
profitable for us.
So we said let's, let's, let'sstart this up.
And, funny enough, there's a.
There was an office that thatwe could use at the time, and
the first project was for ahundred thousand dollars, so
that that was the breaker right.
So we and then, and then theroller coaster to this.
Brian Samson (11:06):
Yeah, you always remember the first project.
Everyone kind of needs thatfirst break.
And was the client in theStates or they were?
Miguel Munoz (11:14):
That was we had the first project was an
insurance company, the wholesystem, this one which was an
NGO for health, and the thirdone was one in the Netherlands.
Brian Samson (11:25):
Wow.
Miguel Munoz (11:25):
So because my friend met him and we started
working for him, so like threeyears after, four years after we
started up, there was anopportunity.
So he went even to theNetherlands and we even started,
we founded a company in theNetherlands and we started
exporting people directly.
Right, we took the goodengineers and sent them there
(11:47):
from Guatemala and Costa Rica.
So that was also pretty good.
I had customers in France, theNetherlands, the UK, a little
fewer.
Brian Samson (11:57):
Yeah, and as you've talked about NGOs as
customers, you've talked aboutbanks, telcos.
Can you talk about how yourmaybe core services and core
customers changed over the years?
And this is probably a lessonfor any service provider
anywhere in the world.
You know is services can getcomplicated in saying yes and
(12:17):
saying no.
Miguel Munoz (12:19):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
To be honest, the mostfulfilling customers are the
ones that have, where we buildup a relation, some mutual
respect, and one of the coupleof the banks that we work with
we have been working sinceBlackBerry again, so the good
things about that is, well, youhave to come up with new
(12:41):
solutions, you have to take onsome challenges, but, most
importantly, stay with opencommunications.
That's, for me, the key, beinghonest.
Importantly, stay with opencommunications, that's, for me,
the key, being honest.
And when sometimes you have totake responsibility of your
mistakes, the customer willappreciate that, and I rather
have the customer that says OK,Miguel, I got you.
This is something that didn't gowell, but you had the guts to
(13:04):
tell me face to face and youkept on going.
So that's very valuable, ofcourse, and I think this is
something very important forNearshore also, because you've
had some customers in the USthat need to get that trust.
For example, hiring onlyfreelancers.
That can be tricky, right, youneed to understand the culture.
But also there is momentum inknowing the company and really
(13:29):
taking the long road right,because you can get a developer
pretty easy and change thecompanies, but there is value
into building those long-termrelations with a company, even
if it's small compared to others, of course, but that's the most
important thing, customers willhave different opinions change
small project, big projects andall sorts of it.
Brian Samson (13:52):
Yeah, Miguel, if you don't mind, tell me more
about the talent at Digital Geko.
Is it mostly software engineers, and what kind of engineers?
Miguel Munoz (14:01):
Sure, we're mostly software development.
What we do is teams, teams fordevelopment.
We do have some customdevelopment, but we rather put
teams so engagements of sixmonths, 12 months, so we can
maintain the people Because, asyou know, there is a lot of
shifts and people move around.
(14:21):
But the value that we bring isprecisely understanding them and
really milking a culture forthe company.
So it's hard because they'reall remote.
But my HR team, I have themconstantly saying we are a
culture, we are a team, we'renot a family.
It's a different thing.
We're a culture.
And how we can have them grow,that's their main.
(14:44):
Well, everyone's main thing.
Right, but we push them to growand we know that the relation
might not stay for long.
Right, because people willchange jobs, and that's okay.
But the time that they're withus, we want them to grow and
really learn and communicate andall the soft skills that we
want.
But that's the way we see it.
(15:05):
Sometimes I was told that wewere a school company so they
would stay for a while and thengo.
Now, every company is like that.
The thing is, how important istheir lifetime during the work
with Geko, right?
So that's kind of the culture.
I nag my HR team every day.
Brian Samson (15:22):
I would imagine you built relationships with
some of the local technicaluniversities and CS programs to
nurture the talent, recruitthose graduates.
Miguel Munoz (15:33):
Yes, yes, we already know which are our best
universities for what type oftechnology we have full stacks,
mobile developers, of course, isour strength, and of course,
we're partnering with AWS andother companies.
So we're really into cloud,which has been beneficial to
some customers already in thebanking sector.
(15:53):
But, yeah, we develop.
I work a lot on the culture andit's because, as I tell them,
I've had other lives and what isimportant is having that period
of time with people who like towork and be okay.
Brian Samson (16:09):
Yeah, yeah, If you don't mind, could you share
some of those universities thatyou've specifically appreciated?
Miguel Munoz (16:16):
Sure Well one of the national ones, Universidad
San Carlos.
They have good, good base,they're strong.
Universidad del Valle they haveEnglish, so it's some good
demand.
Then I can say Mesoamericana.
This is the one that's based alot in Quetzaltenango, a
secondary city.
That one's pretty good too.
Brian Samson (16:39):
Okay, great, great Talk about AI.
How is this impacting yourworld?
Miguel Munoz (16:47):
Well, we've seen the sun come out many times
already, right?
So, as I tell people, it'sdigital transformation, or
whatever you want to call it.
We keep doing similar things,right, not really automating
things.
So what we did is we have acompany, we created a whole unit
with AI, and what we areunderstanding from some
(17:08):
customers in Chile and anotherguy we met in Chicago is that
there's a lot of startupsoffering it because it's going
to be an easy way in, right, butthe value of AI that we see is
we need to understand the wholeprocess.
I see it as another front end.
Right, we used to do web, we domobile, we do AI too.
(17:28):
But what's important about allthese front ends is the
automatization automation, sorry, for the whole process.
Right, you need to have theconversation with the AI, but
there's some action to be there,and then behind that, you need
the data.
So we got the other componentsto create those processes
(17:49):
processes and we have been doingit with other technologies,
right.
So, but I know it's pretty sexyand we have already implemented
for retail sales, for bookingsand stuff.
So we have our own agentcreation tool that we've
developed and I think it's goingto go that way right, it's up
for grabs.
We can say anything, but it'sjust another way that we're
(18:11):
going to be introducing newvalue or more digital products
or any other thing solutions forour customers.
Brian Samson (18:18):
Yeah, you know, I was talking to a friend of mine
who's a CTO in San Francisco theother day and asking him you
know, does this, does AI meanthe death of the mid-level
engineer?
And he's like, actually no, not, not for a while, cause there's
a lot of connection to do.
You know, you're reallyintegrating things.
You've got.
There's a lot of complexity,much more complexity now that
(18:40):
you have to understand, as, asyou connect, do you?
Do you see some, some truth inthat statement?
Totally.
Miguel Munoz (18:47):
It could be scary because we don't really know.
I mean, we use it as copilotfor development of our chat tool
too.
But yes, I don't want to beskeptical.
But there has been other waves,as you've seen in the market.
Now the front end is easier.
Now with this Flutter you cando multi-platform.
So there will be advancements,definitely, and there will be a
(19:10):
change into what engineers needto learn.
But what we need is keysolutions to the business right.
When I get approached by orwhen I approach a customer, I
always say there has to be asolution, there has to be
business solution, and thatrules everything.
Technology, of course.
They say, but how much is itgoing to cost me an app that
(19:32):
does A to B?
First of all I say, yeah, youknow, they're going to cost you
like three more times themarketing side.
If it's a game, it's going tobe like 10 times.
But then the reality is does itmake business sense?
Brian Samson (19:43):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's right.
You know, my prediction and Ihope this is true is that this
will create a lot moreentrepreneurs, because the
burden to build a business nowis dramatically reduced, and
maybe even kind of democratizeentrepreneurship across the
Americas.
You know you could.
(20:03):
A senior engineer who wants tostart something in Guatemala has
the same opportunity and chanceas somebody in New York City or
Montreal or wherever.
Miguel Munoz (20:13):
I totally agree with you, and it's I think it's
doing that just like webwebmasters right, though, when
the web started, just creatingfive pages was very expensive,
and now you get the weeks, youget the shopify, you get all
those things.
It has created also businessesfor a lot of people, and I think
that's good.
The thing is how it's going tobe for for us, the b2b's.
(20:36):
Uh, most likely, I think and Iwant to hear your opinion too is
is it going to be like they'regoing to go for the small
businesses or they're going totrust a company that has been
doing this for a while?
Brian Samson (20:53):
I think the quote that used to say 50 years ago of
you never get fired for hiringan IBM, I think that still
applies today.
Large companies are largebuyers and you know, and as I've
in my own career, as I've soldto large organizations, I think
risk is the most important thingfor them.
Right Is, play it safe, don'tdo anything that's going to
(21:18):
break it.
So I don't see a lot of changethere, but I see a lot of fast
moving opportunities from smalland medium-sized businesses
selling to small andmedium-sized businesses and we
need to really the.
Miguel Munoz (21:33):
The way I joke about it is like the rubik's
cube, right, we still need tofind out how that turns out, but
my experience was that therewas this guy from Heinz, no,
heinz.
Uh, catch it Heinz and not CarlHeinz, sorry from Heinz, a
company worldwide.
Uh, has the under grasp, heinz.
I was close enough.
So there is this guy from crapHeinz.
(21:55):
He was saying that there aresmall AIs and that's a problem,
because a large company does notneed so many suppliers, right,
they just need someone that cando everything.
That's why that's the way we'reheading to.
So we are a supplier of thoseAIs and then gather the data
with the platform they need andhelp them out with that.
(22:16):
Totally agree with you.
There's other opportunities andpeople are turning into this
and hopefully that's another waywe plan to catch.
Brian Samson (22:24):
That's cool.
I like it.
I like it, Miguel.
Tell us more about the cultureand let's even get a little more
specific.
People that might listen tothis podcast are like you know
what?
Next on my list of places tovisit is Guatemala.
Where should they go?
What should they try?
(22:45):
Tell us about the food and allthat stuff.
Miguel Munoz (22:48):
So about coming to Guatemala as a tourist?
You mean, okay, I thought youwere saying that.
Well, there are very niceplaces.
You should definitely go toTikal, which is the largest Maya
ruins area that you can visit.
It's an awesome trip.
You're in the middle of thejungle and really discovering
the ruins.
(23:08):
You need a lot of imaginationtoo, but it's an awesome place,
definitely.
You know they've discovered thelargest pyramid in the world
right now, which is up northfrom Guatemala, close to the
Mexican border.
To get there you need ahelicopter or a lot of patience,
because you'll find mosquitoes.
So if you're really intoadventure, go there.
Otherwise, you can go to Tikal.
(23:28):
That's definitely a must-go.
Then we have Antigua, guatemala,which is pretty close to
Guatemala City, and it's acolonial city.
That's pretty nice, but thereare many other places the
beaches, as it is a smallcountry, but we have mountains,
so you can go.
Climb volcanoes you can see anactive volcano pretty close.
(23:49):
That's an awesome adventure.
If you go to Tikal and you wakeup early, at 4 am, you can go
to a tall pyramid and you cansee the sunrise in the jungle
and that's amazing.
What else Food is?
I like it.
It's very spicy not as spicy asMexico, of course and there's
always this talk about tamales.
Yeah, we have tamales, justlike that, but there's a there's
(24:11):
a wide variety.
And, doctor, definitely staywith the agencies that have the
tour if this is your first timein Guatemala, but come and find
out for yourselves right, let'snot hear it.
Brian Samson (24:27):
Just come in, look around and see it for
yourselves.
Are there any restaurants thatyou'd care to plug on the show?
You know anything, say inGuatemala City or anywhere else,
that like you got it.
This is my favorite restaurant.
You must try it.
Miguel Munoz (24:38):
Well, if you want, want some meat, you have to go
to montanos montanos, and youcannot.
It's always good.
It's always good.
And I'm trying to think aboutthe other one that says hi, we
went with my mother recently.
I'll I'll I have to think aboutit.
We'll have to put it in theshow notes.
But, to be honest, there's somereally good restaurants and
even hotels.
They have a have all the, allthe brands here and their food
(25:02):
is certainly good.
And if you're adventurous, ofcourse you have to try tortillas
, local ones, not like mexicans,but just again, always the
issue who invented it doesn'tmatter, just try them.
I don't want any two fightswith them.
Brian Samson (25:15):
And the spices, the spicy food, is good too we
don't want any, any fights onthe show, but come, come on.
You've got to tell me thatGuatemala has the best tamales
and tortillas right, exactly.
Miguel Munoz (25:26):
But tortillas are good, I mean, and coffee, that's
the biggest thing.
But you know what?
Essentially, one of theproblems from Central America is
that we got separated.
That's the problem.
Otherwise, it's a large economy.
I mean, if you gather all thecountries and there's talent
everywhere.
The bad decision was thinkingthat it would be good to be
(25:49):
different.
Right, we're all the same.
To be honest, again, I told youI have family in Costa Rica,
honduras, el Salvador, so it'sall mixed.
Brian Samson (25:57):
Yeah, I think that's great, Miguel.
Where can people find you andwhere can they find Digital Geko
if they'd like to connect withyou?
Miguel Munoz (26:04):
Sure, I appreciate it.
So the website is Digital Geko.
You just write it G-E-K-O dotcom.
Send me an email there.
Or my personal email is at moon, without the actual genesis
right At Digital Geko dot com.
Without the actual the NSEsright At digitalgekocom.
And if you want to know abouttortillas, write to me.
Or if you want to explorebusiness, more than welcome.
Brian Samson (26:27):
Love it, Miguel.
Great show.
This is a lot of fun.
I learned a lot about Guatemalaand I know our audience well
too.
Thank you so much for being aguest today.
Miguel Munoz (26:37):
Oh, thank you, Brian.
I really appreciate the jobyou're doing with the show.
I'm a follower and if you wantto talk about other companies, I
can join them or I can comeback to anytime.
Okay, and of course, you'remore than welcome to come to
Guatemala.
Yeah, I'm sure you're aboutwhen are you located?
Brian Samson (26:55):
I'm actually in Hawaii, but if.
I make'm out there.
I will definitely look you up.
I was going to say it's afive-hour flight not for you,
but let's say that for 90% ofpeople it's a little closer.
Miguel Munoz (27:10):
Exactly, it's pretty close.
Thank you very much, brian.
I appreciate it a lot.
Brian Samson (27:14):
This is the Nearshore Cafe podcast sponsored
by Plug Technologies pluggtech.
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