October 15, 2025 • 24 mins
Host Brian Samson talks with Denis Champagne, a Fractional CRO and Strength Coach, about how leadership, culture, and adaptability drive nearshore success across Latin America. Denis shares his journey from growing up bilingual in Canada to discovering the depth and resilience of Latin American culture through language, travel, and business.
Together, they explore how empathy, communication, and cultural intelligence shape stronger remote teams and meaningful professional relationships. Denis also breaks down the “conquered vs. colonized” mindset, revealing how history influences today’s approach to collaboration, sales, and leadership across borders.
🎧 Tune in for practical lessons on adaptability, emotional intelligence, and what Latin America can teach global leaders about growth, connection, and success.
🎧 Host | Brian Samson – Founder of 💻 Plugg Technologies
🔗 https://www.linkedin.com/in/briansamson/
🎙️ Sponsored by Plugg Technologies – Connecting U.S. companies with top-tier software developers across Latin America.
🌐 https://www.plugg.tech
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:08):
Welcome everyone to another episode of the Near Tour
Cafe Podcast.
We are in season four.
This is our leadoff episode toseason four.
And we're gonna go in a littlebit different direction.
We're really lucky to have DenisChampagne on the show today.
And Denis has lived a reallyinteresting life and has a lot
(00:31):
to share about the world of nearshore, especially from an
anthropological, sociologicalangle.
Before we do that, let me thankour sponsor.
That's Plug Technologies,P-L-U-G-G.
Great way to connect talent fromall over Latin America with
growing U.S.
companies.
Denis, thanks so much forjoining us today.
(00:52):
Thank you.
Appreciate it, Brian, for beinginvited.
Absolutely.
Well, Denny, I know right nowyou're in a leadership role,
guiding companies on salesstrategy and all sorts of things
that you've picked up on yourexperience.
I think what our audience wouldlove to hear is how how had this
(01:13):
all started from a Latin Americastandpoint?
Like how did where what when didyou first get exposed to this
world and kind of tell us theorigin?
SPEAKER_03 (01:22):
Well, it started very early in high school.
Um, you know, there's a point inhigh school where you walk
around the corridors at thebeginning of the season to
choose your courses.
And having been born in Ottawa,a bilingual city at that time,
more than now, coming from aFrench Canadian background, with
on one side a an Englishneighbor and a Protestant
(01:43):
Anglican church in front of thehouse, and French Canadian
Catholics on the left, I wasexposed to bilingualism, and so
I was fluent at a very earlyage.
And so languages and music,because I think both have you
know uh shared values, music andlanguage.
Language is musical.
And so I was walking down thehigh uh the corridors in high
(02:06):
school trying to find courses totake, and I saw in one room lots
of good-looking young ladies.
And I said, What is that course?
It's it's Spanish.
I said, Oh, let's go to Spanish.
So I started studying Spanishbecause of young ladies.
And I had a good time, and itwas musical, and you know,
Hispanic and Spanish-speakingculture has a lot of at its core
(02:29):
music.
So that when I started kind ofreally understanding Latin
American and learning thelanguage and the origins, and
with two other languages asbackground, it helped me to kind
of orient myself and put thingstogether and say, okay, that's
why this is the way it's said inEnglish and the way it's said in
French, and have add two pointsof comparison for all of it
(02:50):
together, right?
So that's how I got toappreciate that.
unknown (02:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (02:54):
Yeah.
Did you feel like uh Spanishcame pretty quickly to you
because of that languagebackground?
SPEAKER_03 (03:00):
Well, it's partly, but uh also my musical ear.
I was playing flute in the highschool band, so I was musical,
so that helped a lot to like themusicality of speaking Spanish.
SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (03:12):
There is some rhythmicity and some some
cadencing and some sequencingand some, you know, up and down
kind of inter inflections.
So that was fun.
It was different, right?
SPEAKER_02 (03:24):
But I tell you, the girls helped a lot in the
motivation.
Travel, what what was your firstexposure to Latin America?
SPEAKER_03 (03:34):
When when did you first visit?
Well, I visited actuallyVenezuelan friends in Ottawa,
where I'm from, or was from, Iam from.
And that time, one of theuniversity used to have summer
integration of English as asecond language, I guess a
three-month venture, so kidsfrom all over the world.
So I would end up in a partythere because I walked down the
(03:57):
street one day and I heardSpanish.
And after two years in in highschool, I said, I ran and made a
V line for those guys, and theyended up being from Venezuela.
And they invited me to theparties because they were part
of the three-month venturethere, and it ended up staying
longer.
I would have met from see peoplefrom Africa, from Sweden, from
everywhere, and I said, Ottawais a nation capital, and we have
(04:20):
a lot of tourists who came toCanada, Ottawa, namely.
And so at the parliamentaryarea, I would see all these
people and hear all these noisesand these sounds.
So I was already attuned andkind of, you know, sensitized.
So it was fun.
And I went to Miami to visitthem because a lot of
Venezuelans at that time had alot of residences in Miami.
(04:43):
And it's only a little bit laterthat I went to uh Dominican
Republic, Cuba, and theCaribbean, you know, for
spending a week on the beach.
SPEAKER_02 (04:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (04:54):
And it's only when I met a young lady in the early
90s in my Ottawa, who's fromVenezuela as well.
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (05:02):
And we got married.
And uh got married for we livedtogether for six, seven years,
we divorced.
And my current wife, for twelveyears now, we just celebrated
our anniversary last week oftwelve years.
Congratulations.
She's also from Venezuela.
So Venezuela was kind of thecore because I studied in
university as well, civilizationcourses and advanced grammar
(05:24):
courses.
So to understand a language, youunderstand the soul of its
people.
So I could tell you, because Ispeak German as well and
Italian, and I could tell yousome things about the Italian
thinking or the German thinkingthat kind of has congruity,
congruence with the actuallanguage or how the thinking has
been structured.
SPEAKER_00 (05:44):
Yeah.
Tell me about your your firstimpressions of Venezuela.
And you know, I think peoplethat are watching the news today
see a Venezuela in chaos.
What was it like when you whenyou were visiting, you know, a
few decades ago?
SPEAKER_03 (06:00):
Yeah, the the the economy was different.
I ended up getting there in1990.
In 1990, you know, there was youknow a certain president, and
but there was still the militarystill lurking in the background.
South America as a as a whole,if you want to compare South to
North America, South Americawere conquered, then they were
(06:23):
colonized.
North America was firstcolonized, then it was
conquered.
And that makes all thedifference between North and
South America.
SPEAKER_00 (06:31):
Can you can you go go a little deeper in that?
I I think this is a really greatjump-off point.
SPEAKER_03 (06:36):
Well, you know, when we arrived of the French, my
family is from 360 years ago inCanada.
Yeah, right?
So I I have that kind of, Iguess, leeway of time to be able
to give some and I don't knoweverything about my ancestors.
I know who they are on thepaternal side from 1660 to now.
Wow.
(06:56):
But I can't tell you exactlywhat they did on the day-to-day
basis on a monthly or in theirlifetime.
But I know that they came onaccount of the French government
or the French king and theEnglish king, and they were
coming to discover, you know.
When we make discovery calls andsales, right, what are we there?
We're there to discover to andwho in who says cover, this
(07:20):
cover means there's a cover.
So you lift up the cover, andthere's a something you find
inside.
So they found things.
It was, you know, obviouslycommercial and trying to find,
you know, a place of uhhabitation or habitat.
But we had time to get settledin and to entrench ourselves in
the part of the world.
(07:41):
Whereas in South America, theywere just completely annihilated
faster.
And I mean I could go country bycountry with specifics, but I
won't because it's too much.
Because of my civilizationcourse, we went through those
kind of pre-Columbian stories.
But um I think that um, and thisis based on my readings of uh
famous philosopher Octavio Pazfrom Mexico, who wrote a book
(08:05):
called The The Labyrinth of theSolitude.
And it's really uh kind of adepiction of how South American
and the what they say, TristezaIndigena, which means the
indigenous sadness, how theyfeel still raped and robbed.
Yeah.
It was rough.
So my heart fell for them, and Ithink that the joy that that
(08:27):
emanates from South Americanculture is that they they have
bounced back and they have anamazing wealth of youth,
brilliant youth.
And the Montreal InternationalFilm Festival thirty years ago,
I saw a documentary called HighSchool, and it was Latin
American kids in New York in theBronx and Spanish Harlem.
(08:48):
And they're the ones that weregiven the best notes, the best
rewards, and the best marks, andninety-two percent of them went
to university.
SPEAKER_01 (08:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (08:58):
There's something in their brain and their minds,
their their the elasticity, theneuroplasticity that I find
extremely inspiring in SouthAmerica.
Just the actual literature andthe the plethora of languages,
they are an amazing continentwith so much talk about
(09:19):
diversity.
Chile, Argentina, and Boliviahave nothing to do with one one
another.
It's completely another world.
Venezuela, well, they have 70islands, they have four
climates, they have the mostbeautiful women in the world,
they have set the beaches, theyhave gold, they have the largest
(09:41):
petroleum sources in the world.
That's right.
They have diamonds, they theythey have the highest
waterfalls, Angel Falls,Canaima, a river where half of
the side of the river ispiranhas, but they never come on
the other side of the river, andyou can swim.
SPEAKER_01 (09:59):
Interesting.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (10:00):
With pink sand.
So and the food and the joy andthe kinds of psychographic
depiction in Venezuela.
You know, Venezuela means littleVenice.
Oh, I didn't know that.
Small Venice.
So as the lieutenant ofChristopher Columbus, his name
is Amerigo Vespucci.
Amerigo, that's why they call itAmerica.
(10:22):
So, you know, one tried to sellthe sizzle, the other one
produced the steak.
Right.
Vespucci closed the deal.
And when they arrived in aroundthe Maracaibo area of Venezuela,
they saw those houses in thewater.
They said, Oh, little Venice,picola Venezia, from there
emanated, you know, and inobviously indigenous language,
(10:43):
just like Alabama is anindigenous word.
Canada, Ottawa, they're allindigenous.
You know, surely enough, twodays ago it was the National Day
of Truth and Reconciliation Yearin Canada.
For the residential school issueand everything else.
Yeah.
But anyhow, to come back toVenezuela and to South America,
(11:04):
it's just extremely rich, a lotmore rich than we think, and a
lot bigger than the actual mapon the Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:12):
I wanted to I think you're a great guest to talk
about maybe like the pre-1900s,South America, and the
post-1900s, and like howpre-shaped what we see today.
I'm not quite sure I'm the bestperson for that.
SPEAKER_03 (11:29):
And I don't want to pretend that I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_00 (11:31):
I think you studied a lot of the civilization.
Well, I studied pre-Columbianand post-Columbian versus
pre-Columbian.
Okay.
Maybe we'll divide it that way.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (11:42):
Yeah.
Pre-Columbian was very uhobviously 2,000 languages.
Yeah.
The Inca Empire is just nothingbut the amalgamation of many
conquests of many races andlanguages under one kind of
empire, the Inca Empire.
You know, there are stillcertain languages still alive,
(12:04):
but many of them have died withits people.
I guess there were there was alot more peace before the
Spaniards arrived.
SPEAKER_01 (12:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (12:14):
The Spaniards they were the worst.
I mean, you know, and theconquistadores, they just
completely b you know, destroyedeverything.
Just in the name of God and thethe sword, you know, they will,
you know, obviously recognizetheir own.
That's the way they said, justlike they did in the Inquisition
and in Spain, right?
(12:35):
With the Jewish and the with theCatholics and uh Sister
Isabella, right?
SPEAKER_02 (12:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (12:42):
So uh a lot of their music has this kind of folklore
of feelings of the past.
But they're a very resilient,and I find that for humanity's
sake, forget about just SouthAmerica, there's a lot of
resilience.
(13:02):
People are very resilient.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:08):
Yeah, I'd love to dive in deeper here, you know,
because what you said a fewminutes ago about conquered
versus colonized.
Conquered versus colonized,yeah.
And you know, there's there'sthis kind of identity, you know,
or maybe an identity crisis, or,you know, like who am I who am I
mapping to, right?
(13:28):
And you study genealogy, like asyou talked about with, you know,
at the at the beginning of theshow.
How how might that be helpful inbusinesses, companies that want
to get established in LatinAmerica in in kind of
understanding the population?
And obviously nuances country bycountry, but you know,
macro-wise, what would you say?
SPEAKER_03 (13:47):
Well, I don't think it applies differently anywhere
else.
I just try to understand wherethey're coming from.
Yeah.
Ask them about the food.
There are some things that theyeat, you know, in Venezuela that
is really, really popular inChristmas time, but it actually
was the concoction concoction offood left for the slaves.
And they made this a nationalChristmas meal.
SPEAKER_01 (14:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:10):
So whatever lemon they were given, they made
lemonade with it.
SPEAKER_01 (14:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:14):
So it's kind of what I say poison into medicine,
right?
Whatever life throws at you, youcan transform it.
And they made it a source ofjoy.
And they're uh they are more ofa collectivist society.
We are more individualistichere.
People live in their own place,they don't want anybody.
You need to call me before youcome over.
(14:34):
You know, when I was young, myour door at the house was a
swinging, revolving door.
People come in and out all thetime.
My mother, ah, sit down, have acoffee, you know, whatever.
So that doesn't happen anymore.
It's like it's somewhatsaddening.
And you know, we have probablyfriends from all over the world
instead of having next door.
Most people don't know eachother's neighbors next door to
(14:57):
each other.
Yeah.
I'm in a condo and short of afew people, I don't know many
people on the street.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:04):
Would you say that's that's different in Latin
America?
SPEAKER_03 (15:07):
They uh no everybody knows everybody.
SPEAKER_00 (15:09):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:10):
And they'll sh they'll stick together for each
other, right?
As the socioeconomic profilechanges of different
individuals, there tends to be alittle bit of a distancing.
But uh in my in-laws a party,it's like 50 people and they're
all family members.
SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:26):
And every Saturday night they all dance, they put
music on, they have food, theycelebrate life.
They really enjoy life much morethan us.
SPEAKER_00 (15:36):
Yeah, agree.
Agreed.
Yeah.
Danny, how about the Caribbeanpart of Latin America versus the
maybe more European part ofLatin America?
What what are the thedifferences that you see?
SPEAKER_03 (15:48):
Well, yeah, the that that's an interesting like I
I've never been to Chile.
I've worked with Chileansalespeople and sales teams.
I have I have close uhArgentinian friends.
As a matter of fact, I have onefriend who's landing tomorrow
from Argentina who actuallylives in Spain now in Valencia.
And she's here for some businessin North America.
(16:09):
And uh, you know, she she's veryEuropean, you know, the the the
the the demographic profile, thepsychographics are different.
Chile is very much kind of amix.
They are a very small country,but their actual temperature and
their climate is similar to usin Montreal.
(16:31):
So that's why we've had a verystrong influx, Chilean moving to
Canada in the 70s with whathappened with the regime there,
Pinochet.
So Argentina has been, you know,populated a lot with the Italian
communities.
And Italians went down there forthe the meat and the railroad.
Those two populations,notwithstanding Uruguay and
(16:55):
Paraguay, they're in aparticular section of the of the
of the continent that'sdifferent.
They're right on the frontier isBrazil.
Right.
And Argentinians would not letthe Brazilian blacks come in.
Yeah, yeah.
Again, you know, human behavioris pretty well the same
everywhere else.
You know, racism is realeverywhere.
(17:17):
Without talking about ourneighbors to the south,
everything that's going on thereis based on racism.
Yeah.
Bring it back to what it was.
Yeah.
Without getting too political,but so it's your love for
people.
If you love extra interchange,discovering, listening to new
(17:37):
sounds, new flavors.
Who wants to eat oatmeal everyday for the rest of your life?
I like lobster, I like, youknow, raisins, I love you know.
I want the rainbow of life,right?
To to be omnipresent.
We eat all kinds of food here,uh, but it's always because I
lift weights, my wife lifts theweights, we are very, very
(17:58):
focused on good quality organicmeat.
unknown (18:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (18:02):
We don't and we don't compromise on that.
Um, I'm 91, people wouldn't beable to say that I'm 91.
Um Denise, you love lovingpeople.
Loving people.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:20):
Are there different talent pockets in Latin America
that you might recommend, like aa a closer look at?
SPEAKER_03 (18:28):
Well, if it's technical, like there's
technical sales and there'sconsultative or relationship
sales.
You know, there's all kinds ofterms and words that are using
now, right?
Uh AI interjecting there andbringing a new flavor.
Flavor of the week of the monthwith terms.
(18:49):
So you have to be careful withthe semantic hair split about
that.
unknown (18:52):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (18:53):
But at the end of the day, it's a lot of
individuals who can adapt.
I think the I look at IQ, I lookat TQ, technological quotient, I
look at EQ, emotional quotient,but probably where I found the
brightest talents were AQ,adaptability quotient.
They adapt.
They're able to take a situationand make something out of it
(19:16):
that was not there in the firstplace.
SPEAKER_00 (19:19):
Interesting.
SPEAKER_03 (19:20):
Kind of commercial alchemy, I don't know,
behavioral, social alchemy.
You know, take take a piece ofcopper and make it golden, you
know, just by virtue of the waythey are.
I think people, I think that whoare looking to hire salespeople,
it's not always the mostbombastic, outspoken.
The good listeners is the peoplewho say, I don't know how to do
(19:43):
this, but I'll learn and I'llget it done.
I love what Richard Bransonteaches us.
Whenever you're asked something,just say yes, even if you don't
know how to do it.
And it predisposes you toassimilate and then learn the
things that you need to learn todo what you need to do.
SPEAKER_00 (19:58):
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
How might you advise NorthAmerican leaders to get the most
out of their teams in LatinAmerica if they they choose to
near shore?
SPEAKER_03 (20:10):
Well, right now is welcome them because they are
they are bright.
The youth of South America,first of all, there's more youth
there than anywhere else.
I would say India is probablyand Africa are two of the great
continents with youth.
Their birth rate is very high.
They're not going hungry, youknow, they're struggling, but
(20:30):
they're not completely goinghungry.
The poverty around the world hasreduced itself.
South American young people arebrilliant, and there's so much
choice.
There's so much to pick from.
It's really a circus.
It's a smorgasbord.
Enjoy it, you know, andencourage them.
And you'll find some of the mostamazing talents.
(20:52):
As a matter of fact, one of thebiggest contracts I ever got was
during a podcast like this whereI was interviewed.
It was only 20 minutes.
I answered several questions in2019, and their number one rep
for North America was a Mexicanwho did his NBA at McGill
University and reached out to meto introduce me to his VP of
(21:13):
sales, thought what I was sayingand what I spoke about was
worthwhile and relevant to whathe saw and he did it for his
team.
He's not even a manager or hedoesn't even benefit from it.
But he cared enough for therest.
And so I got a contract, Iworked with them, and then I
ended up coaching in South andNorth America and in AIPAC.
And this guy is now triple hisincome, and he's no longer with
(21:36):
that company.
That's great.
It's called the law of cause andeffect.
When you create causes ofnobility in your life, it comes
back to you.
Yep.
Karma.
Yep, absolutely.
The practicing Buddhists, as youknow, so that's the foundational
principle of our lives, of ourpractice.
I like that.
SPEAKER_00 (21:55):
Well, let's end the show on some travel.
Uh I'd love to hear, you know,uh uh about a trip or two that
you've taken to Latin America,favorites, anything interesting
that you'd like to share.
SPEAKER_03 (22:06):
Well, you know, I have to say that, you know, my
family is now moved.
My in-laws, my sis my my mystepdaughter, my granddaughter
are in Medellin in in Bogota,Colombia.
They moved from Venezuela tenyears ago because of all kinds
of obvious political reasons.
So I went to Medellin and metour friend Amir, and I fell in
(22:27):
love with Medellin.
It's a great city.
I would move there.
Matter of fact, we may we mayend up selling and moving there
because quality of life is, youknow, and I can, you know, I can
build business there and maybehelp me or whatever.
But uh I loved uh Mexico, Cuba.
(22:48):
Cuba was more on the beach, youknow.
There's old, it's an old historyand it's repeat itself.
Yeah, those are the places Ireally enjoyed.
Obviously in Venezuela, I travelall over, so anywhere I went, it
was absolutely gorgeous.
The mountains or the beaches.
And the food, the food and thepeople, you know.
It's not a very original kind ofexplanation for you, but you
(23:11):
know, you can go.
I I I met people from Montenegroand from Serbia, who are also
wonderful in their own way.
I always try to look for thegood, so yeah.
It's a boring, it's a boringanswer.
I'm not entertaining here atall.
SPEAKER_00 (23:25):
No, it's okay.
I I I think uh I think we we canfeel from your presence that uh
you make the most of your tripsand you've been to quite a few
places.
SPEAKER_03 (23:36):
Yeah.
And my best trips often werealone when I was alone.
SPEAKER_00 (23:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (23:39):
Because I could really be me and only me.
And it draw it drew me intoplaces and situations.
Wow.
I'm just kind of I'm veryblessed.
I if I die tomorrow, I'll beI'll be in peace.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:52):
By the way, just a uh thought as you were talking
about your your language fluencyhas nothing to do with near
shoring, but uh the QuentinTarantino movie, Inglorious
Bastards.
I don't know if you're familiar.
Christopher Waltz, I guess.
I love Island's man.
Yeah, he was trying, Tarantinowas trying forever.
He thought he might never makethat movie, and then he finally
(24:12):
found someone who could act andperform and speak all those four
languages English, French,German, Italian.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Those four.
SPEAKER_03 (24:21):
Unbelievable, unbelievable actor.
I love him.
And he was also in um what's theother one with um Chango?
Unchained.
Yeah, yeah.
Wow.
Brilliant actor.
SPEAKER_00 (24:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:35):
Well, we'll we'll uh close on that.
Thank you, Denis.
Really enjoyed the conversationtoday.
Let me thank our sponsor again,Plug Technologies, P-L-U-G-G dot
tech.
Great way to connect talent allover Latin America with growing
U.S.
companies.
This is the Nearshore CafePodcast.
We'll see you again next time.
Thanks, everybody.
Welcome everyone to another episode of the Near Tour
Cafe Podcast.
We are in season four.
This is our leadoff episode toseason four.
And we're gonna go in a littlebit different direction.
We're really lucky to have DenisChampagne on the show today.
And Denis has lived a reallyinteresting life and has a lot
(00:31):
to share about the world of nearshore, especially from an
anthropological, sociologicalangle.
Before we do that, let me thankour sponsor.
That's Plug Technologies,P-L-U-G-G.
Great way to connect talent fromall over Latin America with
growing U.S.
companies.
Denis, thanks so much forjoining us today.
(00:52):
Thank you.
Appreciate it, Brian, for beinginvited.
Absolutely.
Well, Denny, I know right nowyou're in a leadership role,
guiding companies on salesstrategy and all sorts of things
that you've picked up on yourexperience.
I think what our audience wouldlove to hear is how how had this
(01:13):
all started from a Latin Americastandpoint?
Like how did where what when didyou first get exposed to this
world and kind of tell us theorigin?
SPEAKER_03 (01:22):
Well, it started very early in high school.
Um, you know, there's a point inhigh school where you walk
around the corridors at thebeginning of the season to
choose your courses.
And having been born in Ottawa,a bilingual city at that time,
more than now, coming from aFrench Canadian background, with
on one side a an Englishneighbor and a Protestant
(01:43):
Anglican church in front of thehouse, and French Canadian
Catholics on the left, I wasexposed to bilingualism, and so
I was fluent at a very earlyage.
And so languages and music,because I think both have you
know uh shared values, music andlanguage.
Language is musical.
And so I was walking down thehigh uh the corridors in high
(02:06):
school trying to find courses totake, and I saw in one room lots
of good-looking young ladies.
And I said, What is that course?
It's it's Spanish.
I said, Oh, let's go to Spanish.
So I started studying Spanishbecause of young ladies.
And I had a good time, and itwas musical, and you know,
Hispanic and Spanish-speakingculture has a lot of at its core
(02:29):
music.
So that when I started kind ofreally understanding Latin
American and learning thelanguage and the origins, and
with two other languages asbackground, it helped me to kind
of orient myself and put thingstogether and say, okay, that's
why this is the way it's said inEnglish and the way it's said in
French, and have add two pointsof comparison for all of it
(02:50):
together, right?
So that's how I got toappreciate that.
unknown (02:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (02:54):
Yeah.
Did you feel like uh Spanishcame pretty quickly to you
because of that languagebackground?
SPEAKER_03 (03:00):
Well, it's partly, but uh also my musical ear.
I was playing flute in the highschool band, so I was musical,
so that helped a lot to like themusicality of speaking Spanish.
SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (03:12):
There is some rhythmicity and some some
cadencing and some sequencingand some, you know, up and down
kind of inter inflections.
So that was fun.
It was different, right?
SPEAKER_02 (03:24):
But I tell you, the girls helped a lot in the
motivation.
Travel, what what was your firstexposure to Latin America?
SPEAKER_03 (03:34):
When when did you first visit?
Well, I visited actuallyVenezuelan friends in Ottawa,
where I'm from, or was from, Iam from.
And that time, one of theuniversity used to have summer
integration of English as asecond language, I guess a
three-month venture, so kidsfrom all over the world.
So I would end up in a partythere because I walked down the
(03:57):
street one day and I heardSpanish.
And after two years in in highschool, I said, I ran and made a
V line for those guys, and theyended up being from Venezuela.
And they invited me to theparties because they were part
of the three-month venturethere, and it ended up staying
longer.
I would have met from see peoplefrom Africa, from Sweden, from
everywhere, and I said, Ottawais a nation capital, and we have
(04:20):
a lot of tourists who came toCanada, Ottawa, namely.
And so at the parliamentaryarea, I would see all these
people and hear all these noisesand these sounds.
So I was already attuned andkind of, you know, sensitized.
So it was fun.
And I went to Miami to visitthem because a lot of
Venezuelans at that time had alot of residences in Miami.
(04:43):
And it's only a little bit laterthat I went to uh Dominican
Republic, Cuba, and theCaribbean, you know, for
spending a week on the beach.
SPEAKER_02 (04:54):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (04:54):
And it's only when I met a young lady in the early
90s in my Ottawa, who's fromVenezuela as well.
SPEAKER_01 (05:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (05:02):
And we got married.
And uh got married for we livedtogether for six, seven years,
we divorced.
And my current wife, for twelveyears now, we just celebrated
our anniversary last week oftwelve years.
Congratulations.
She's also from Venezuela.
So Venezuela was kind of thecore because I studied in
university as well, civilizationcourses and advanced grammar
(05:24):
courses.
So to understand a language, youunderstand the soul of its
people.
So I could tell you, because Ispeak German as well and
Italian, and I could tell yousome things about the Italian
thinking or the German thinkingthat kind of has congruity,
congruence with the actuallanguage or how the thinking has
been structured.
SPEAKER_00 (05:44):
Yeah.
Tell me about your your firstimpressions of Venezuela.
And you know, I think peoplethat are watching the news today
see a Venezuela in chaos.
What was it like when you whenyou were visiting, you know, a
few decades ago?
SPEAKER_03 (06:00):
Yeah, the the the economy was different.
I ended up getting there in1990.
In 1990, you know, there was youknow a certain president, and
but there was still the militarystill lurking in the background.
South America as a as a whole,if you want to compare South to
North America, South Americawere conquered, then they were
(06:23):
colonized.
North America was firstcolonized, then it was
conquered.
And that makes all thedifference between North and
South America.
SPEAKER_00 (06:31):
Can you can you go go a little deeper in that?
I I think this is a really greatjump-off point.
SPEAKER_03 (06:36):
Well, you know, when we arrived of the French, my
family is from 360 years ago inCanada.
Yeah, right?
So I I have that kind of, Iguess, leeway of time to be able
to give some and I don't knoweverything about my ancestors.
I know who they are on thepaternal side from 1660 to now.
Wow.
(06:56):
But I can't tell you exactlywhat they did on the day-to-day
basis on a monthly or in theirlifetime.
But I know that they came onaccount of the French government
or the French king and theEnglish king, and they were
coming to discover, you know.
When we make discovery calls andsales, right, what are we there?
We're there to discover to andwho in who says cover, this
(07:20):
cover means there's a cover.
So you lift up the cover, andthere's a something you find
inside.
So they found things.
It was, you know, obviouslycommercial and trying to find,
you know, a place of uhhabitation or habitat.
But we had time to get settledin and to entrench ourselves in
the part of the world.
(07:41):
Whereas in South America, theywere just completely annihilated
faster.
And I mean I could go country bycountry with specifics, but I
won't because it's too much.
Because of my civilizationcourse, we went through those
kind of pre-Columbian stories.
But um I think that um, and thisis based on my readings of uh
famous philosopher Octavio Pazfrom Mexico, who wrote a book
(08:05):
called The The Labyrinth of theSolitude.
And it's really uh kind of adepiction of how South American
and the what they say, TristezaIndigena, which means the
indigenous sadness, how theyfeel still raped and robbed.
Yeah.
It was rough.
So my heart fell for them, and Ithink that the joy that that
(08:27):
emanates from South Americanculture is that they they have
bounced back and they have anamazing wealth of youth,
brilliant youth.
And the Montreal InternationalFilm Festival thirty years ago,
I saw a documentary called HighSchool, and it was Latin
American kids in New York in theBronx and Spanish Harlem.
(08:48):
And they're the ones that weregiven the best notes, the best
rewards, and the best marks, andninety-two percent of them went
to university.
SPEAKER_01 (08:58):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (08:58):
There's something in their brain and their minds,
their their the elasticity, theneuroplasticity that I find
extremely inspiring in SouthAmerica.
Just the actual literature andthe the plethora of languages,
they are an amazing continentwith so much talk about
(09:19):
diversity.
Chile, Argentina, and Boliviahave nothing to do with one one
another.
It's completely another world.
Venezuela, well, they have 70islands, they have four
climates, they have the mostbeautiful women in the world,
they have set the beaches, theyhave gold, they have the largest
(09:41):
petroleum sources in the world.
That's right.
They have diamonds, they theythey have the highest
waterfalls, Angel Falls,Canaima, a river where half of
the side of the river ispiranhas, but they never come on
the other side of the river, andyou can swim.
SPEAKER_01 (09:59):
Interesting.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (10:00):
With pink sand.
So and the food and the joy andthe kinds of psychographic
depiction in Venezuela.
You know, Venezuela means littleVenice.
Oh, I didn't know that.
Small Venice.
So as the lieutenant ofChristopher Columbus, his name
is Amerigo Vespucci.
Amerigo, that's why they call itAmerica.
(10:22):
So, you know, one tried to sellthe sizzle, the other one
produced the steak.
Right.
Vespucci closed the deal.
And when they arrived in aroundthe Maracaibo area of Venezuela,
they saw those houses in thewater.
They said, Oh, little Venice,picola Venezia, from there
emanated, you know, and inobviously indigenous language,
(10:43):
just like Alabama is anindigenous word.
Canada, Ottawa, they're allindigenous.
You know, surely enough, twodays ago it was the National Day
of Truth and Reconciliation Yearin Canada.
For the residential school issueand everything else.
Yeah.
But anyhow, to come back toVenezuela and to South America,
(11:04):
it's just extremely rich, a lotmore rich than we think, and a
lot bigger than the actual mapon the Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (11:12):
I wanted to I think you're a great guest to talk
about maybe like the pre-1900s,South America, and the
post-1900s, and like howpre-shaped what we see today.
I'm not quite sure I'm the bestperson for that.
SPEAKER_03 (11:29):
And I don't want to pretend that I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_00 (11:31):
I think you studied a lot of the civilization.
Well, I studied pre-Columbianand post-Columbian versus
pre-Columbian.
Okay.
Maybe we'll divide it that way.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (11:42):
Yeah.
Pre-Columbian was very uhobviously 2,000 languages.
Yeah.
The Inca Empire is just nothingbut the amalgamation of many
conquests of many races andlanguages under one kind of
empire, the Inca Empire.
You know, there are stillcertain languages still alive,
(12:04):
but many of them have died withits people.
I guess there were there was alot more peace before the
Spaniards arrived.
SPEAKER_01 (12:13):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (12:14):
The Spaniards they were the worst.
I mean, you know, and theconquistadores, they just
completely b you know, destroyedeverything.
Just in the name of God and thethe sword, you know, they will,
you know, obviously recognizetheir own.
That's the way they said, justlike they did in the Inquisition
and in Spain, right?
(12:35):
With the Jewish and the with theCatholics and uh Sister
Isabella, right?
SPEAKER_02 (12:40):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (12:42):
So uh a lot of their music has this kind of folklore
of feelings of the past.
But they're a very resilient,and I find that for humanity's
sake, forget about just SouthAmerica, there's a lot of
resilience.
(13:02):
People are very resilient.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:08):
Yeah, I'd love to dive in deeper here, you know,
because what you said a fewminutes ago about conquered
versus colonized.
Conquered versus colonized,yeah.
And you know, there's there'sthis kind of identity, you know,
or maybe an identity crisis, or,you know, like who am I who am I
mapping to, right?
(13:28):
And you study genealogy, like asyou talked about with, you know,
at the at the beginning of theshow.
How how might that be helpful inbusinesses, companies that want
to get established in LatinAmerica in in kind of
understanding the population?
And obviously nuances country bycountry, but you know,
macro-wise, what would you say?
SPEAKER_03 (13:47):
Well, I don't think it applies differently anywhere
else.
I just try to understand wherethey're coming from.
Yeah.
Ask them about the food.
There are some things that theyeat, you know, in Venezuela that
is really, really popular inChristmas time, but it actually
was the concoction concoction offood left for the slaves.
And they made this a nationalChristmas meal.
SPEAKER_01 (14:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:10):
So whatever lemon they were given, they made
lemonade with it.
SPEAKER_01 (14:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (14:14):
So it's kind of what I say poison into medicine,
right?
Whatever life throws at you, youcan transform it.
And they made it a source ofjoy.
And they're uh they are more ofa collectivist society.
We are more individualistichere.
People live in their own place,they don't want anybody.
You need to call me before youcome over.
(14:34):
You know, when I was young, myour door at the house was a
swinging, revolving door.
People come in and out all thetime.
My mother, ah, sit down, have acoffee, you know, whatever.
So that doesn't happen anymore.
It's like it's somewhatsaddening.
And you know, we have probablyfriends from all over the world
instead of having next door.
Most people don't know eachother's neighbors next door to
(14:57):
each other.
Yeah.
I'm in a condo and short of afew people, I don't know many
people on the street.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:04):
Would you say that's that's different in Latin
America?
SPEAKER_03 (15:07):
They uh no everybody knows everybody.
SPEAKER_00 (15:09):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:10):
And they'll sh they'll stick together for each
other, right?
As the socioeconomic profilechanges of different
individuals, there tends to be alittle bit of a distancing.
But uh in my in-laws a party,it's like 50 people and they're
all family members.
SPEAKER_01 (15:25):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:26):
And every Saturday night they all dance, they put
music on, they have food, theycelebrate life.
They really enjoy life much morethan us.
SPEAKER_00 (15:36):
Yeah, agree.
Agreed.
Yeah.
Danny, how about the Caribbeanpart of Latin America versus the
maybe more European part ofLatin America?
What what are the thedifferences that you see?
SPEAKER_03 (15:48):
Well, yeah, the that that's an interesting like I
I've never been to Chile.
I've worked with Chileansalespeople and sales teams.
I have I have close uhArgentinian friends.
As a matter of fact, I have onefriend who's landing tomorrow
from Argentina who actuallylives in Spain now in Valencia.
And she's here for some businessin North America.
(16:09):
And uh, you know, she she's veryEuropean, you know, the the the
the the demographic profile, thepsychographics are different.
Chile is very much kind of amix.
They are a very small country,but their actual temperature and
their climate is similar to usin Montreal.
(16:31):
So that's why we've had a verystrong influx, Chilean moving to
Canada in the 70s with whathappened with the regime there,
Pinochet.
So Argentina has been, you know,populated a lot with the Italian
communities.
And Italians went down there forthe the meat and the railroad.
Those two populations,notwithstanding Uruguay and
(16:55):
Paraguay, they're in aparticular section of the of the
of the continent that'sdifferent.
They're right on the frontier isBrazil.
Right.
And Argentinians would not letthe Brazilian blacks come in.
Yeah, yeah.
Again, you know, human behavioris pretty well the same
everywhere else.
You know, racism is realeverywhere.
(17:17):
Without talking about ourneighbors to the south,
everything that's going on thereis based on racism.
Yeah.
Bring it back to what it was.
Yeah.
Without getting too political,but so it's your love for
people.
If you love extra interchange,discovering, listening to new
(17:37):
sounds, new flavors.
Who wants to eat oatmeal everyday for the rest of your life?
I like lobster, I like, youknow, raisins, I love you know.
I want the rainbow of life,right?
To to be omnipresent.
We eat all kinds of food here,uh, but it's always because I
lift weights, my wife lifts theweights, we are very, very
(17:58):
focused on good quality organicmeat.
unknown (18:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (18:02):
We don't and we don't compromise on that.
Um, I'm 91, people wouldn't beable to say that I'm 91.
Um Denise, you love lovingpeople.
Loving people.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (18:20):
Are there different talent pockets in Latin America
that you might recommend, like aa a closer look at?
SPEAKER_03 (18:28):
Well, if it's technical, like there's
technical sales and there'sconsultative or relationship
sales.
You know, there's all kinds ofterms and words that are using
now, right?
Uh AI interjecting there andbringing a new flavor.
Flavor of the week of the monthwith terms.
(18:49):
So you have to be careful withthe semantic hair split about
that.
unknown (18:52):
Right.
SPEAKER_03 (18:53):
But at the end of the day, it's a lot of
individuals who can adapt.
I think the I look at IQ, I lookat TQ, technological quotient, I
look at EQ, emotional quotient,but probably where I found the
brightest talents were AQ,adaptability quotient.
They adapt.
They're able to take a situationand make something out of it
(19:16):
that was not there in the firstplace.
SPEAKER_00 (19:19):
Interesting.
SPEAKER_03 (19:20):
Kind of commercial alchemy, I don't know,
behavioral, social alchemy.
You know, take take a piece ofcopper and make it golden, you
know, just by virtue of the waythey are.
I think people, I think that whoare looking to hire salespeople,
it's not always the mostbombastic, outspoken.
The good listeners is the peoplewho say, I don't know how to do
(19:43):
this, but I'll learn and I'llget it done.
I love what Richard Bransonteaches us.
Whenever you're asked something,just say yes, even if you don't
know how to do it.
And it predisposes you toassimilate and then learn the
things that you need to learn todo what you need to do.
SPEAKER_00 (19:58):
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right.
How might you advise NorthAmerican leaders to get the most
out of their teams in LatinAmerica if they they choose to
near shore?
SPEAKER_03 (20:10):
Well, right now is welcome them because they are
they are bright.
The youth of South America,first of all, there's more youth
there than anywhere else.
I would say India is probablyand Africa are two of the great
continents with youth.
Their birth rate is very high.
They're not going hungry, youknow, they're struggling, but
(20:30):
they're not completely goinghungry.
The poverty around the world hasreduced itself.
South American young people arebrilliant, and there's so much
choice.
There's so much to pick from.
It's really a circus.
It's a smorgasbord.
Enjoy it, you know, andencourage them.
And you'll find some of the mostamazing talents.
(20:52):
As a matter of fact, one of thebiggest contracts I ever got was
during a podcast like this whereI was interviewed.
It was only 20 minutes.
I answered several questions in2019, and their number one rep
for North America was a Mexicanwho did his NBA at McGill
University and reached out to meto introduce me to his VP of
(21:13):
sales, thought what I was sayingand what I spoke about was
worthwhile and relevant to whathe saw and he did it for his
team.
He's not even a manager or hedoesn't even benefit from it.
But he cared enough for therest.
And so I got a contract, Iworked with them, and then I
ended up coaching in South andNorth America and in AIPAC.
And this guy is now triple hisincome, and he's no longer with
(21:36):
that company.
That's great.
It's called the law of cause andeffect.
When you create causes ofnobility in your life, it comes
back to you.
Yep.
Karma.
Yep, absolutely.
The practicing Buddhists, as youknow, so that's the foundational
principle of our lives, of ourpractice.
I like that.
SPEAKER_00 (21:55):
Well, let's end the show on some travel.
Uh I'd love to hear, you know,uh uh about a trip or two that
you've taken to Latin America,favorites, anything interesting
that you'd like to share.
SPEAKER_03 (22:06):
Well, you know, I have to say that, you know, my
family is now moved.
My in-laws, my sis my my mystepdaughter, my granddaughter
are in Medellin in in Bogota,Colombia.
They moved from Venezuela tenyears ago because of all kinds
of obvious political reasons.
So I went to Medellin and metour friend Amir, and I fell in
(22:27):
love with Medellin.
It's a great city.
I would move there.
Matter of fact, we may we mayend up selling and moving there
because quality of life is, youknow, and I can, you know, I can
build business there and maybehelp me or whatever.
But uh I loved uh Mexico, Cuba.
(22:48):
Cuba was more on the beach, youknow.
There's old, it's an old historyand it's repeat itself.
Yeah, those are the places Ireally enjoyed.
Obviously in Venezuela, I travelall over, so anywhere I went, it
was absolutely gorgeous.
The mountains or the beaches.
And the food, the food and thepeople, you know.
It's not a very original kind ofexplanation for you, but you
(23:11):
know, you can go.
I I I met people from Montenegroand from Serbia, who are also
wonderful in their own way.
I always try to look for thegood, so yeah.
It's a boring, it's a boringanswer.
I'm not entertaining here atall.
SPEAKER_00 (23:25):
No, it's okay.
I I I think uh I think we we canfeel from your presence that uh
you make the most of your tripsand you've been to quite a few
places.
SPEAKER_03 (23:36):
Yeah.
And my best trips often werealone when I was alone.
SPEAKER_00 (23:39):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (23:39):
Because I could really be me and only me.
And it draw it drew me intoplaces and situations.
Wow.
I'm just kind of I'm veryblessed.
I if I die tomorrow, I'll beI'll be in peace.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (23:52):
By the way, just a uh thought as you were talking
about your your language fluencyhas nothing to do with near
shoring, but uh the QuentinTarantino movie, Inglorious
Bastards.
I don't know if you're familiar.
Christopher Waltz, I guess.
I love Island's man.
Yeah, he was trying, Tarantinowas trying forever.
He thought he might never makethat movie, and then he finally
(24:12):
found someone who could act andperform and speak all those four
languages English, French,German, Italian.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Those four.
SPEAKER_03 (24:21):
Unbelievable, unbelievable actor.
I love him.
And he was also in um what's theother one with um Chango?
Unchained.
Yeah, yeah.
Wow.
Brilliant actor.
SPEAKER_00 (24:33):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (24:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:35):
Well, we'll we'll uh close on that.
Thank you, Denis.
Really enjoyed the conversationtoday.
Let me thank our sponsor again,Plug Technologies, P-L-U-G-G dot
tech.
Great way to connect talent allover Latin America with growing
U.S.
companies.
This is the Nearshore CafePodcast.
We'll see you again next time.
Thanks, everybody.
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