May 13, 2025 • 28 mins
In this episode of The Nearshore Cafe Podcast, host Brian Samson, founder of Plugg Technologies, sits down with Ron Noden, SVP of Tech M&A at Quorum Group, to unpack the real value of nearshoring, how international staffing impacts valuations, and why 60% of tech M&A deals involve two or more countries.
From building massive teams in Costa Rica to closing high-growth tech deals across Latin America, Ron shares his journey from retail to running multimillion-dollar software exits. If you're a tech founder, operator, or investor considering growth, funding, or exit strategies—this is a must-watch conversation.
🧠 What You’ll Learn:
⏱️ 01:15 – Ron’s early entrepreneurial start & journey to tech M&A
⏱️ 06:25 – Scaling revenue and selling a tech company
⏱️ 09:00 – Bootstrapped vs VC-backed exits: pros and cons
⏱️ 14:40 – How nearshoring and global teams affect M&A valuations
⏱️ 21:00 – Stories from staffing operations in Costa Rica
⏱️ 27:30 – How to prepare your company for a sale
💡 Key Takeaways:
- 60% of tech M&A deals are cross-border—global teams are the norm, not the exception
- Nearshoring isn't a risk—it’s a competitive edge when structured strategically
- Costa Rica & Latin America offer exceptional talent, time zone alignment, and cultural fit
- M&A success = blending strategic fit with financial clarity
- The right buyer defines your company’s worth—not a generic valuation report
🔗 Resources & Connections:
🌐 Learn more about Plugg Technologies: plugg.tech
🧠 Explore M&A opportunities with Ron Noden: quorumgroup.com
📩 Contact Ron: ronn@quorumgroup.com
🎟️ Find a free Quorum live M&A event: quorumgroup.com/events
👉 Like, Subscribe & Hit the Bell 🔔 for more episodes on global hiring, software exits, nearshoring, and operational scale!
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#TechM&A #Nearshoring #LatinAmericaTalent #CostaRica #RemoteTeams #GlobalStaffing #SoftwareExits #RonNoden #NearshoreCafe #PluggTechnologies #StartupExit #BootstrappedVsVC #MergersAndAcquisitions #RemoteWork #StaffAugmentation
📢 Don’t forget to LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, and TURN ON NOTIFICATIONS for more insights on Latin America’s growing tech scene! 🎧🔥
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🔗 Stay Connected:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Welcome everyone to another episode of the Nearshore
Cafe Podcast.
I'm Brian Sampson, your host.
Before we get into it, let methank our sponsor, plug
Technologies pluggtech a greatway to connect talent all over
Latin America with growing UScompanies.
If you're interested in theworld of, which is a very
(00:57):
interesting topic right now, youare going to love this episode.
We've got Ron Noden, the SeniorVice President of Tech M&A for
Quorum, and his big focus ishelping entrepreneurs unlock
their value, of their equity,and this is especially
interesting as we looked at M&Aacross Latin America, across the
(01:19):
US services staffing all sortsof stuff.
So, without further ado, ron,uh, thanks for being here today
hey, thanks for having me brian.
I appreciate it.
Ron, you've had, uh, quite thecareer as an operator, growing
revenue now in the world of m&a.
Can you tell us more like howdid you get to where you are
(01:40):
today?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
you know I well, first of all, I don't know where
I'm at today, but I think it'sinteresting.
You know I was very blessed toget an opportunity to learn how
to do a certain thing early inmy career and in fact when I was
13 years old, I had an idea andit created an opportunity for
me to sell bumper stickers.
(02:01):
You know, in the back of one ofthose cartoon magazines that
they use to have these littleopportunities.
I actually bought one of thosekits pre-internet days and my
parents were involved with anorganization that had a national
convention and I decided I wasgoing to show up and sell bumper
stickers to anybody that wantedto be affiliated with their
local group.
(02:21):
And you know I made way moremoney than I expected and I
realized that the stickers tooka lot longer to dry than I
realized would have realized atthe beginning.
So some of those people had toget their stuff mailed to them.
But it created an opportunityto to really understand a lot
about how to sell and deliverand do commerce.
(02:43):
And I went on to, you know, workin retail at a young age and
sell suits at a young age, and Ibecame the youngest buyer at a
regional retailer At the ripeold age of 19,.
I was going to school full-time, working full-time, and I got
the opportunity to be a buyer,which is what I was going to
school for, because I lovedretail and I worked at that
(03:05):
company as a buyer.
And then, like a year and ahalf later, they fired like 2000
of us.
They decided to wipe out awhole bunch of people.
And it was a great thingbecause I learned a lot and I
went through a series of thingsand went to another organization
, learned some things.
I became a buyer inside ofanother regional retailer and
then one of the three largestretailers on earth called me and
(03:27):
provided opportunity to gothere and become one of the
youngest buyers that they neverhad, and that was exciting and
fun.
And when I got there, they hada fantastic business.
They had great systems and I'minvolved with toy buying, but
they didn't have a reallyparticularly brilliant way of
doing the allocation anddistributions and one of my
(03:49):
coworkers had some really greatideas and we kind of looked at
ways that we could make thatmaybe a norm of the company and
so I brought that to theattention of some folks in the
technology area and they gave methe bums rush and then I
figured out that it probably wasgoing to save us somewhere
between 15 and $20 million ayear just in markdowns in my
(04:10):
department Incredible, and yeah.
So I learned basic.
I got that day.
It was a Wednesday.
I went home with a kit that Ibought from I think it was B
Dalton, if I'm not mistaken howto write basic.
In the next five days I learnedhow to write BASIC.
I actually fell asleep at mydesk on Saturday and slept in my
office accidentally and Icreated a 20-store example and
(04:35):
dropped it with my boss in towbehind me, dropped it off to the
technology folks on Monday andsaid you know, with my massive
amount of experience five daysof writing in BASIC I could do
it for a 20-store sample withmultiple distribution points.
You guys with all your smartsshould be able to do the same
thing.
And so a year later we had thatsystem a little less than a
(04:55):
year later, and that wasencouraging, especially the fact
that they kept the guts of thatsystem for the next two decades
.
So it was a very exciting thingto see.
But it gave me an understandingof what technology can do and
how it can drive a business andhow it can change things and how
it can really level the playingfield in situations where
(05:16):
otherwise it would be verydifficult to do.
I then went on to you know, Iworked there a considerable
amount of time and then I reallyunderstood that I wanted to be
on the other side of the coin.
When you're at one of thelargest retailers on earth, one
of the things that happens isthe people that call on you are
some of the best in the businessat selling.
(05:36):
And so I got exposed to youknow, the president of Mattel
was our rep.
You know, crazy to think thatyou have that kind of access.
So it was interesting and itwas fun and I learned a lot and
I ended up going into anorganization and deciding that I
was going to be involved withmarketing and sales and I grew
(05:57):
as a salesperson, then as asales leader, and then I kind of
blended that with thattechnology background and took a
very entrepreneurial approachto things.
So I ended up growing and fixingcompanies and spending my time
on the RevGen side, but alwaysin tech companies, always.
You know IT consulting firms,near shore sourcing software
(06:18):
firms, you know a lot ofdifferent tech based firms and I
got a nice rounded experienceby doing that and uh, and then
you know about, I don't know,five and a half years ago, our
company that I had gone to.
We had some massive growth andwe had two great years that I
was there.
First year we had 32% growthand we were on track for 101%
(06:40):
growth the second year and wesold the company, and the
company that did the transactionwas Quorum, and I realized how
brilliant they were at theirapproach to doing it, because
until you've sold a company, youdon't know how difficult it is
to run a company while you'reselling the company.
It's a lot of work, and so Ihad a great appreciation for
(07:01):
what they did and magically, itwasn't much longer after that,
after I completed my tour ofduty to do the transfer and I
did a little bit of soulsearching on what I wanted to do
, I ended up at Quorum and Ireally come to love doing what I
do.
So that's kind of a roundaboutway of getting there, but that's
my background.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yeah, tell us a little more about you know
there's all sorts of companiesthat are looking to exit, all
shapes and sizes.
Is there a particular area thatyou're focused on?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
So the company I work for, Quorum, is all tech
software.
We don't deal with anythingexcept tech and software, and
part of that is because softwarefirms are often misunderstood
from a valuation standpoint andcertainly from an understanding
of how to get the best possibletransaction.
So a lot of times organizationsyou know that maybe are more
(07:49):
brick and mortar or have afacility and they have assets
that are heavy and you know theythey have different ways of
valuing that.
In software it's really aboutthe product itself, the revenue
that you drive and how thatgrows.
So I focus on a lot of softwarefirms.
I do work with a lot of IT firmsbecause I have a lot of
background with IT, particularlynot just IT but a near shore
(08:11):
sourcing based two things.
It's kind of difficult to putit into one little pin because
sometimes it's a fintech,sometimes it's a really cool
product that hits a certain typeof technology.
It just depends on thesituation.
But tech companies in generalintrigue me, they're interesting
and I think they really aredifferent than other businesses
(08:32):
and need to be really handled bypeople who get it.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, really handled by people who get it.
Yeah, ron, do you do you focuson firms that have already been
VC funded or more bootstrappedand they've reached a certain
size?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
So you know we do both.
We've done all kinds ofvariations.
There's other versions of thattoo, but you know, sometimes
when you do a VC route you endup you have a bit of distance
between the time you can do theVC route and get really an exit.
That is where you want to beand everybody expects to have a
round that goes as an uptick,not a downtick, and so you know
(09:11):
it depends on the situation.
But we've done virtually any ofthose.
The key on it really from a M&Astandpoint, is understanding the
company, understanding what thefinancials look like because
the financials paint thebaseline of the picture and then
what they do in the marketplace.
That affects how they operate,who they deal with.
(09:31):
Maybe some of the particularstrategies or niches that
they're involved with thatreally allow them to have a
different kind of value based onwho's buying them, and it
becomes much more strategic.
So you get the financial piecewill give you that baseline, but
how they fit really drives thevalue up and is a more fair
representation for owners ofequity.
(09:51):
So it's very important tounderstand that and it's really
important to have a team thatdoes the research so you know
which buyers are going to bemost likely to be involved with
that what kind of thesis theyhave for their buying thesis for
companies and really helpingthem understand how it fits and
can be a real value Cause.
The goal here is, you know, oneplus one should equal nine or
(10:13):
whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Yeah, yeah, I was going gonna ask with your
comment about up rounds and downrounds.
You know, we're only a fewyears removed from the Wild West
of Zerp and everyone raiseswith optimism right?
Nobody, very few people, for itis with pessimism.
Most array are raising withoptimism that they're gonna have
a huge uptick in valuation.
(10:36):
So we we're a couple of yearsremoved now and I'm sure
valuations have in many casesfizzled and I'm curious what
that means for M&A, for a lot ofthese companies today.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Well, the market definitely cycles, you know it
definitely goes through ups anddowns and you know, in an up
market the deals are much morecash oriented and in a down
market they're a lot morestructured with, you know,
whether it's earn outs or stockopportunities or whatever it is.
And a really down market mightbe all stock and it might not
(11:12):
always be the stock that'sreally got a lot of mobility.
It might be something that'skind of landlocked.
It might not even be publicstock.
So you know those things comeand go.
What's interesting is, you know,right now, even though there's
a lot of geopolitical disruptiongoing on, a lot of elements
that are really potentiallyimpacting you know, the value of
(11:32):
things in the marketplace.
We're seeing unbelievableactivity and the valuations
haven't really suffered.
You know, if you think about it, there's $4 trillion in the
marketplace that doesn't have ahome yet and that's a boatload
of money that's going to gosomewhere, because nobody really
wants to give that money back.
Yeah, it's.
(11:53):
So there's a lot of opportunityand, whether the market is
perceived up or down, there'salways places where good
companies that offer really goodopportunity they're going to do
well, they're going to do verywell, and so sometimes you think
, oh well, I'm going to time themarket.
I don't know that.
Anybody can time the marketparticularly well.
(12:15):
You might think you're doing itwell.
Anybody can time the marketparticularly well, you might
think you're doing it well.
But I think the key is knowingwhat your value can be in a
given market, taking the time toreally figure out what's the
possibilities for me now and getreal data and real information.
I always laugh when people say,oh, I'm going to go get a
valuation done by an expert andyou know they go pay $50,000 to
(12:37):
have somebody do evaluation.
The truth is your company'sworth what somebody who is
knowledgeable and understandsyour space is going to pay for
it.
And the valuation, sometimes itcome back sometimes very high,
sometimes very low.
All of them are really just notall that relevant as much as
maybe a guideline really justnot all that relevant as much as
(12:58):
maybe a guideline.
The CEO of our company heactually wrote the majority of
the information in a valuationtextbook for software firms
that's used in colleges allacross America.
And you look at that and it's adifferent kind of valuation I
think people get caught up withis it upmarket, is it valued for
(13:18):
this?
You know the next round has tobe this, because the last round
was this In reality, in the realworld, your company's worth,
somebody will pay for it, and ifI get a good baseline with
financials and I can drive thatup because of the strategic fit
or the market fit or the companyfit, we win.
Everybody gets to win.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah.
How is the nearshoring elementcoming into play with valuations
and M&A today?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
So you know M&A is a global exercise.
60% of the transactions involvetwo countries at least and so
it's crazy how that works andwhen you think about it, there's
businesses where that, can youknow it makes a radical
(14:05):
difference.
I think the key withnearshoring that's to me
interesting is a lot of timespeople don't realize the real
value of nearshore work.
Some of the facts that reallystood out to me, especially with
Latin America, what I noticedwas there's really good work
ethic, we can find unbelievablytalented people and we can do it
(14:28):
at a reasonable price and havereasonable margins.
But, more importantly, it's inthe same time zone.
Importantly, it's in the sametime zone and if you have people
that can communicate well,you're in the same time zone or
close to it.
You're not producing a lot ofthings that you have to do over
again tomorrow because youdidn't have live time feedback
and you know, I think the speedof feedback, the ability to be
(14:52):
close enough to fly there thatday, is incredibly valuable.
Those are really importantthings.
In Costa Rica, where I wasinvolved with a near shore
sourcing operation, it wasamazing to me at hundreds of
people in the building and maybefour or five of them didn't
have a master's degree.
I mean that was incredible theamount of talent and the
(15:14):
knowledge and the capabilitiesthat existed.
Incredible the amount of talentand the knowledge and the
capabilities that existed.
And it was such a joy to havepeople that love what they did
so much that you know they theyjust couldn't let it go at being
okay.
They had to get it great.
So that was very encouraging, alot of fun.
Yeah, you know, that to me isvalue.
That's going to bring value.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yeah, I wanted to ask you know, for founders coming
up today, software founders thatare building their teams, do
you have any advice on?
You know, maybe some of themhave reservations about maybe
putting their IP outside theircountry, or if they think about
it in terms of like, is itoutsourcing or nearshoring and
(15:57):
embedded teams, and any adviceon how they should think about
that or, um, or properlystructure their team or mitigate
their risk or things like that.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Sure, sure.
Well, you know.
First of all, again, we're in aglobal market, so I don't think
you look at the lines ofcountries and continents with
the same lens as we might have30 years ago or 20 years ago or
even five years ago.
So that that's one piece of it.
The second thing that'simportant, though, is you know,
in a great staffing arrangement,you might look at your core
(16:32):
needs and say you know we, weknow we always need these
functions, and we have theability to hire to 60% or 70% of
our peak, but it never goesreally below that.
And by really figuring out yourstrategy for how you do your
employees versus your contractedwork or your project work, it
(16:52):
really allows you to make sureyou don't overhire from your
team.
And then, once you complete theproject and you don't need
those people, you've got peoplehanging around.
You don't really want to getrid of them necessarily.
So hiring to do projects,hiring to do work, that's going
to morph over time.
That sourcing piece, whetherit's inside the country, outside
(17:14):
the country, is always aninteresting thing to look into
and make good sense of.
And then, when you couple thatwith being able to do it in a
way that you're able to improvethe costs and, in many cases,
improve the timeline for gettingwork done.
That can be a really terrificway to grow the business and get
some of that infrastructure inplace that otherwise, you know,
(17:37):
you just can't hire enoughpeople fast enough to get it
done and you certainly can'tafford to, you know, do it at
the level that sometimes we'dlike to.
So, being able to be a littlemore pragmatic, when I need this
portion of the done, I'm goingto go near shore outsource this
piece.
When I need this portion, I'mgoing to go do that and maybe
keeping more of your projectmanagement or some of your
elements that you want to keepinternal that are going to be
(17:58):
consistent A hybrid environmentthere really does work well.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yeah, are there any risks in terms of valuation?
Or maybe, upside that,companies aren't thinking about
that if part of their team is ina different country and you
said 60% of transactions havetwo countries?
I'm going to guess maybe theinitial thesis is I need to keep
all my workers in one placebecause my valuation might be
(18:26):
affected later.
Are they thinking about thatthe wrong way?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Nobody cares about that.
No buyer I know of cares aboutthat.
It's interesting.
I looked at an org chart of acompany that we're working with
and they had 12 developers stillworking out of the Ukraine.
There's the 12, here's whatthey do, here's the
functionality of it.
Here's how successful they are.
Why would you do it any otherway if it's working incredibly
well?
And you know, we have anothercompany that I worked with
(18:52):
that's sourcing out of LatinAmerica and they, you look at it
and you go, they have six orseven developers whatever it was
that are in Latin America.
They got four that are overhere in California and they got
six employees that are sittingin Minneapolis and they got
three that are sitting inBarcelona or wherever it was.
And it doesn't matter where itis.
What matters is getting theright talent doing the right
(19:13):
things at the right time for theright price so that you get
what you want built.
And if I have that and I'mworking through it and I've got,
you know, a great team, I don'tcare where they are.
If we're performing and hittingthe mark and if we're able to
really blow it out of the waterin terms of the ROI that we get
because we did it that way.
You're going to be more dingedin M&A for spending money and
(19:33):
not finishing and not having theright products and not being
ready to go to market, andthey're going to appreciate and
they're going to see.
You know, wherever you havepeople, it's really not a factor
.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
It's is it working well for you and is an efficient
and effective yeah, Ron, I wantto go back to your career in
Latin America, in particularCosta Rica.
Can you dive a little deeperthere and if there's any stories
you want to share?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Well, yeah, I'll try to keep them clean.
I love Costa Rica.
First of all, I have to justtell you I love Latin America,
but I particularly love CostaRica, spent a lot of time there,
spent a lot of time on thecoast really beautiful and I
worked for a near shore sourcingorganization, both as a
consultant and then as a boardmember and you know, it's
(20:21):
interesting to me just the leveland quality of people we were
able to attract and the level offinishing kind of that.
They just things got done welland I always appreciated that.
There was kind of somethingkooky, though, that the first
couple times that I showed up inSan Jose and I walked into the
(20:44):
building, culturally, they wantto come greet you.
So you know, if you have a fewhundred people working there and
they all get up from their joband come, stand in line to come
give you a hug, it could reallycut into productivity.
I started when I came in for thefirst time during the week.
I started coming in early inthe morning, at six or six,
thirty or seven in the morning,so that I wasn't disruptive, but
(21:06):
it was always entertaining andthat particular company, they
had a great American staff andthey had a great Costa Rican
staff and they did a lot ofpitch and catch work, where you
might have one person working inthe US and they're coordinating
with a whole bunch of peoplethat are working in various
places in Latin America, but youended up with a very connected
(21:29):
team as a result, and because ofthe time zone capability, it
was really added to thatfunction as well, so I love that
aspect of it.
The other thing that'sinteresting and this is kind of,
I think, one of the things Ireally liked about and always
liked about Latin America inparticular is it has a little
bit of a vibe to it that youknow from a personal standpoint
(21:51):
is very enjoyable.
The people that I've run intoand been exposed to are some of
the best people I've ever met inmy life, and that makes it
entertaining and fun.
But what I found was, as westarted to find people that
really fit us and talentselection is everything, and if
you have a team that can helpyou really pick the right talent
and the right temperament andpersonality, it really makes all
(22:13):
the difference in the world.
And what I found was they werehiring people who really
understood the goals we had andreally understood how we wanted
to approach things and, as aresult, you know, every day was
just fun to go into work.
It was fun to work with thefolks we had.
It was fun to go do each ofthose things because you're
dealing with knowledgeablepeople who really want to be
successful and their idea ofsuccess is what do you want me
(22:35):
to do?
That's a really phenomenal vibeand I didn't experience that in
a lot of areas that we didsourcing from that weren't in
Latin America, frankly, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Kind of cool Now, ron , you've had such a great
experience in Costa Rica.
You got a place there.
Yeah, yeah, tell us more aboutthat, how that came to be, where
you ended up, and you knowdaily life when you're living
there.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
So, yeah, we, during COVID, we actually bought a
place, sight unseen, based on atransaction that took place in
the company we sold.
Beautiful, just a stunning viewof the ocean Couldn't be
prettier One of those thingswhere we bought it sight unseen,
just off of pictures and videos.
And we showed up and we'restanding on the balcony and if
(23:25):
you can imagine this 38 footwide balcony and about 175
degree view of water and you gotthe Gulf of Papagayo on this
side and the ocean on this side,and it's just stunning.
And in the background, with mytelescope, I can see Nicaragua
on a clear day and you know, westood there on the deck and it
just took our breath away.
Really, just stunning.
(23:47):
And then, over time, what we gotto realize was that even more
enjoyable were the people thatwe met there.
You know there were CostaRicans, expats from Canada and
the US and all kinds of placesand just an enjoyable
environment to be in and thevibe in the country is not
driven off of, uh, dailypolitical disruption, like you
(24:09):
get some places that rhyme withus and, uh, it just there's.
You know, we just would tuneout to that.
I'd read up about it, but Ididn't fixate on it and you know
you're working away and get upat you know from your work at
noon and you take 45 minutesbreak to go swim in the sun and
enjoy the 85 degree weather,have a little light bite and go
(24:31):
back and work five more hours.
Not a bad life, just abeautiful place to be.
The other thing I think isfascinating this is the other
thing I think is great aboutCosta Rica and really a lot of
Latin America is I find that thepeople that I run into there's
a richness of character andthere's a richness of kind of
origin, if you will, and theyask different questions and I
(25:00):
noticed this when we were in thenear-shore sourcing world that
sometimes their view of itforced us to think a little
differently and it became alittle bit more wider in our
thinking than maybe typicalAmericanized thinking.
And I found that bothpersonally, but I also found it
from a business standpoint andit made us better frankly,
that's right.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
If anybody listening wants to learn more about you,
connect with you, learn moreabout Quorum, what's the best
way to do that?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Well, there's a bunch of ways you can do that.
Probably the easiest way isvery simple.
It's r-o-n-n at quorumgroupcom.
It's a very difficult email.
That's probably the easiest way.
If you go to quorumgroupcom,you can see our website that we
have the company I work with.
Nobody's sold more technologybusinesses on earth than them
(25:52):
and it's a great operation.
We have lots of researchers,love to talk to anybody.
It doesn't mean that we'regoing to be involved with it,
happy to guide you where youneed to talk to anybody.
It doesn't mean that we'regoing to be involved with it,
happy to guide you where youneed to go to find the right
information.
One other thing I was going tomention to you, brian, and I
don't know.
You know, sometimes peoplewonder you know, what's the best
way to approach what I want todo with my business.
Do I want to do?
(26:13):
I want to sell it now?
Do I want to wait?
Do I, am I going to try tomarket time?
Do I want to sell part of mybusiness?
Do I want to take some moneyoff the table, get some more
money?
There's a lot of questions thatpeople have and one of the best
ways you can really get throughthat is to get real good
information, real solidinformation.
We put on hundreds of eventsevery year.
(26:35):
We do several, I think 300 liveevents a year at Quorum and we
just completed a series of thosein India.
We have them all over the worldand you know that's one way you
can learn a lot is go to thatevents page on that,
quorumgroupcom, and find anevent that you think will be
valuable and go check it out.
There's a lot of greatinformation you can get for no
(26:57):
cost, just a little timeinvestment and it'll really help
make you smarter on what you'retrying to accomplish.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
And that's great, Ron .
Thank you so much.
This has been a really greatepisode.
I personally learned a lotabout the 60% of companies that
do a transaction are in two ormore countries.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Blew me away.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, that's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
That's amazing.
We're in a global market, thething that's interesting to me.
Yeah, that's.
That's so interesting, that'samazing.
We're in a global market, thething that's interesting to me.
You know, before we go, I wantto just share with you.
I love the.
You know the.
Your sponsor is Plug.
I love the the concept of nomatter where the talent is, find
the right talent and make thepricing reasonable.
And you know that that to me islike the secret of figuring out
(27:41):
how to grow businesses withoutbreaking the bank, and so I'm
intrigued by what they're doing.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Appreciate that.
Thanks, ron.
As Ron said, we'll thank oursponsor, plug Technologies.
That's PLUGGtech Great way tofind talent all over Latin
America connecting with growingcompanies.
You're listening to theNearshore Cafe podcast.
Thanks again to our guest, ron,and we will see you next time.
Take care.
Welcome everyone to another episode of the Nearshore
Cafe Podcast.
I'm Brian Sampson, your host.
Before we get into it, let methank our sponsor, plug
Technologies pluggtech a greatway to connect talent all over
Latin America with growing UScompanies.
If you're interested in theworld of, which is a very
(00:57):
interesting topic right now, youare going to love this episode.
We've got Ron Noden, the SeniorVice President of Tech M&A for
Quorum, and his big focus ishelping entrepreneurs unlock
their value, of their equity,and this is especially
interesting as we looked at M&Aacross Latin America, across the
(01:19):
US services staffing all sortsof stuff.
So, without further ado, ron,uh, thanks for being here today
hey, thanks for having me brian.
I appreciate it.
Ron, you've had, uh, quite thecareer as an operator, growing
revenue now in the world of m&a.
Can you tell us more like howdid you get to where you are
(01:40):
today?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
you know I well, first of all, I don't know where
I'm at today, but I think it'sinteresting.
You know I was very blessed toget an opportunity to learn how
to do a certain thing early inmy career and in fact when I was
13 years old, I had an idea andit created an opportunity for
me to sell bumper stickers.
(02:01):
You know, in the back of one ofthose cartoon magazines that
they use to have these littleopportunities.
I actually bought one of thosekits pre-internet days and my
parents were involved with anorganization that had a national
convention and I decided I wasgoing to show up and sell bumper
stickers to anybody that wantedto be affiliated with their
local group.
(02:21):
And you know I made way moremoney than I expected and I
realized that the stickers tooka lot longer to dry than I
realized would have realized atthe beginning.
So some of those people had toget their stuff mailed to them.
But it created an opportunityto to really understand a lot
about how to sell and deliverand do commerce.
(02:43):
And I went on to, you know, workin retail at a young age and
sell suits at a young age, and Ibecame the youngest buyer at a
regional retailer At the ripeold age of 19,.
I was going to school full-time, working full-time, and I got
the opportunity to be a buyer,which is what I was going to
school for, because I lovedretail and I worked at that
(03:05):
company as a buyer.
And then, like a year and ahalf later, they fired like 2000
of us.
They decided to wipe out awhole bunch of people.
And it was a great thingbecause I learned a lot and I
went through a series of thingsand went to another organization
, learned some things.
I became a buyer inside ofanother regional retailer and
then one of the three largestretailers on earth called me and
(03:27):
provided opportunity to gothere and become one of the
youngest buyers that they neverhad, and that was exciting and
fun.
And when I got there, they hada fantastic business.
They had great systems and I'minvolved with toy buying, but
they didn't have a reallyparticularly brilliant way of
doing the allocation anddistributions and one of my
(03:49):
coworkers had some really greatideas and we kind of looked at
ways that we could make thatmaybe a norm of the company and
so I brought that to theattention of some folks in the
technology area and they gave methe bums rush and then I
figured out that it probably wasgoing to save us somewhere
between 15 and $20 million ayear just in markdowns in my
(04:10):
department Incredible, and yeah.
So I learned basic.
I got that day.
It was a Wednesday.
I went home with a kit that Ibought from I think it was B
Dalton, if I'm not mistaken howto write basic.
In the next five days I learnedhow to write BASIC.
I actually fell asleep at mydesk on Saturday and slept in my
office accidentally and Icreated a 20-store example and
(04:35):
dropped it with my boss in towbehind me, dropped it off to the
technology folks on Monday andsaid you know, with my massive
amount of experience five daysof writing in BASIC I could do
it for a 20-store sample withmultiple distribution points.
You guys with all your smartsshould be able to do the same
thing.
And so a year later we had thatsystem a little less than a
(04:55):
year later, and that wasencouraging, especially the fact
that they kept the guts of thatsystem for the next two decades
.
So it was a very exciting thingto see.
But it gave me an understandingof what technology can do and
how it can drive a business andhow it can change things and how
it can really level the playingfield in situations where
(05:16):
otherwise it would be verydifficult to do.
I then went on to you know, Iworked there a considerable
amount of time and then I reallyunderstood that I wanted to be
on the other side of the coin.
When you're at one of thelargest retailers on earth, one
of the things that happens isthe people that call on you are
some of the best in the businessat selling.
(05:36):
And so I got exposed to youknow, the president of Mattel
was our rep.
You know, crazy to think thatyou have that kind of access.
So it was interesting and itwas fun and I learned a lot and
I ended up going into anorganization and deciding that I
was going to be involved withmarketing and sales and I grew
(05:57):
as a salesperson, then as asales leader, and then I kind of
blended that with thattechnology background and took a
very entrepreneurial approachto things.
So I ended up growing and fixingcompanies and spending my time
on the RevGen side, but alwaysin tech companies, always.
You know IT consulting firms,near shore sourcing software
(06:18):
firms, you know a lot ofdifferent tech based firms and I
got a nice rounded experienceby doing that and uh, and then
you know about, I don't know,five and a half years ago, our
company that I had gone to.
We had some massive growth andwe had two great years that I
was there.
First year we had 32% growthand we were on track for 101%
(06:40):
growth the second year and wesold the company, and the
company that did the transactionwas Quorum, and I realized how
brilliant they were at theirapproach to doing it, because
until you've sold a company, youdon't know how difficult it is
to run a company while you'reselling the company.
It's a lot of work, and so Ihad a great appreciation for
(07:01):
what they did and magically, itwasn't much longer after that,
after I completed my tour ofduty to do the transfer and I
did a little bit of soulsearching on what I wanted to do
, I ended up at Quorum and Ireally come to love doing what I
do.
So that's kind of a roundaboutway of getting there, but that's
my background.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yeah, tell us a little more about you know
there's all sorts of companiesthat are looking to exit, all
shapes and sizes.
Is there a particular area thatyou're focused on?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
So the company I work for, Quorum, is all tech
software.
We don't deal with anythingexcept tech and software, and
part of that is because softwarefirms are often misunderstood
from a valuation standpoint andcertainly from an understanding
of how to get the best possibletransaction.
So a lot of times organizationsyou know that maybe are more
(07:49):
brick and mortar or have afacility and they have assets
that are heavy and you know theythey have different ways of
valuing that.
In software it's really aboutthe product itself, the revenue
that you drive and how thatgrows.
So I focus on a lot of softwarefirms.
I do work with a lot of IT firmsbecause I have a lot of
background with IT, particularlynot just IT but a near shore
(08:11):
sourcing based two things.
It's kind of difficult to putit into one little pin because
sometimes it's a fintech,sometimes it's a really cool
product that hits a certain typeof technology.
It just depends on thesituation.
But tech companies in generalintrigue me, they're interesting
and I think they really aredifferent than other businesses
(08:32):
and need to be really handled bypeople who get it.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, really handled by people who get it.
Yeah, ron, do you do you focuson firms that have already been
VC funded or more bootstrappedand they've reached a certain
size?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
So you know we do both.
We've done all kinds ofvariations.
There's other versions of thattoo, but you know, sometimes
when you do a VC route you endup you have a bit of distance
between the time you can do theVC route and get really an exit.
That is where you want to beand everybody expects to have a
round that goes as an uptick,not a downtick, and so you know
(09:11):
it depends on the situation.
But we've done virtually any ofthose.
The key on it really from a M&Astandpoint, is understanding the
company, understanding what thefinancials look like because
the financials paint thebaseline of the picture and then
what they do in the marketplace.
That affects how they operate,who they deal with.
(09:31):
Maybe some of the particularstrategies or niches that
they're involved with thatreally allow them to have a
different kind of value based onwho's buying them, and it
becomes much more strategic.
So you get the financial piecewill give you that baseline, but
how they fit really drives thevalue up and is a more fair
representation for owners ofequity.
(09:51):
So it's very important tounderstand that and it's really
important to have a team thatdoes the research so you know
which buyers are going to bemost likely to be involved with
that what kind of thesis theyhave for their buying thesis for
companies and really helpingthem understand how it fits and
can be a real value Cause.
The goal here is, you know, oneplus one should equal nine or
(10:13):
whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Yeah, yeah, I was going gonna ask with your
comment about up rounds and downrounds.
You know, we're only a fewyears removed from the Wild West
of Zerp and everyone raiseswith optimism right?
Nobody, very few people, for itis with pessimism.
Most array are raising withoptimism that they're gonna have
a huge uptick in valuation.
(10:36):
So we we're a couple of yearsremoved now and I'm sure
valuations have in many casesfizzled and I'm curious what
that means for M&A, for a lot ofthese companies today.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Well, the market definitely cycles, you know it
definitely goes through ups anddowns and you know, in an up
market the deals are much morecash oriented and in a down
market they're a lot morestructured with, you know,
whether it's earn outs or stockopportunities or whatever it is.
And a really down market mightbe all stock and it might not
(11:12):
always be the stock that'sreally got a lot of mobility.
It might be something that'skind of landlocked.
It might not even be publicstock.
So you know those things comeand go.
What's interesting is, you know,right now, even though there's
a lot of geopolitical disruptiongoing on, a lot of elements
that are really potentiallyimpacting you know, the value of
(11:32):
things in the marketplace.
We're seeing unbelievableactivity and the valuations
haven't really suffered.
You know, if you think about it, there's $4 trillion in the
marketplace that doesn't have ahome yet and that's a boatload
of money that's going to gosomewhere, because nobody really
wants to give that money back.
Yeah, it's.
(11:53):
So there's a lot of opportunityand, whether the market is
perceived up or down, there'salways places where good
companies that offer really goodopportunity they're going to do
well, they're going to do verywell, and so sometimes you think
, oh well, I'm going to time themarket.
I don't know that.
Anybody can time the marketparticularly well.
(12:15):
You might think you're doing itwell.
Anybody can time the marketparticularly well, you might
think you're doing it well.
But I think the key is knowingwhat your value can be in a
given market, taking the time toreally figure out what's the
possibilities for me now and getreal data and real information.
I always laugh when people say,oh, I'm going to go get a
valuation done by an expert andyou know they go pay $50,000 to
(12:37):
have somebody do evaluation.
The truth is your company'sworth what somebody who is
knowledgeable and understandsyour space is going to pay for
it.
And the valuation, sometimes itcome back sometimes very high,
sometimes very low.
All of them are really just notall that relevant as much as
maybe a guideline really justnot all that relevant as much as
(12:58):
maybe a guideline.
The CEO of our company heactually wrote the majority of
the information in a valuationtextbook for software firms
that's used in colleges allacross America.
And you look at that and it's adifferent kind of valuation I
think people get caught up withis it upmarket, is it valued for
(13:18):
this?
You know the next round has tobe this, because the last round
was this In reality, in the realworld, your company's worth,
somebody will pay for it, and ifI get a good baseline with
financials and I can drive thatup because of the strategic fit
or the market fit or the companyfit, we win.
Everybody gets to win.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah.
How is the nearshoring elementcoming into play with valuations
and M&A today?
Speaker 2 (13:44):
So you know M&A is a global exercise.
60% of the transactions involvetwo countries at least and so
it's crazy how that works andwhen you think about it, there's
businesses where that, can youknow it makes a radical
(14:05):
difference.
I think the key withnearshoring that's to me
interesting is a lot of timespeople don't realize the real
value of nearshore work.
Some of the facts that reallystood out to me, especially with
Latin America, what I noticedwas there's really good work
ethic, we can find unbelievablytalented people and we can do it
(14:28):
at a reasonable price and havereasonable margins.
But, more importantly, it's inthe same time zone.
Importantly, it's in the sametime zone and if you have people
that can communicate well,you're in the same time zone or
close to it.
You're not producing a lot ofthings that you have to do over
again tomorrow because youdidn't have live time feedback
and you know, I think the speedof feedback, the ability to be
(14:52):
close enough to fly there thatday, is incredibly valuable.
Those are really importantthings.
In Costa Rica, where I wasinvolved with a near shore
sourcing operation, it wasamazing to me at hundreds of
people in the building and maybefour or five of them didn't
have a master's degree.
I mean that was incredible theamount of talent and the
(15:14):
knowledge and the capabilitiesthat existed.
Incredible the amount of talentand the knowledge and the
capabilities that existed.
And it was such a joy to havepeople that love what they did
so much that you know they theyjust couldn't let it go at being
okay.
They had to get it great.
So that was very encouraging, alot of fun.
Yeah, you know, that to me isvalue.
That's going to bring value.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
Yeah, I wanted to ask you know, for founders coming
up today, software founders thatare building their teams, do
you have any advice on?
You know, maybe some of themhave reservations about maybe
putting their IP outside theircountry, or if they think about
it in terms of like, is itoutsourcing or nearshoring and
(15:57):
embedded teams, and any adviceon how they should think about
that or, um, or properlystructure their team or mitigate
their risk or things like that.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Sure, sure.
Well, you know.
First of all, again, we're in aglobal market, so I don't think
you look at the lines ofcountries and continents with
the same lens as we might have30 years ago or 20 years ago or
even five years ago.
So that that's one piece of it.
The second thing that'simportant, though, is you know,
in a great staffing arrangement,you might look at your core
(16:32):
needs and say you know we, weknow we always need these
functions, and we have theability to hire to 60% or 70% of
our peak, but it never goesreally below that.
And by really figuring out yourstrategy for how you do your
employees versus your contractedwork or your project work, it
(16:52):
really allows you to make sureyou don't overhire from your
team.
And then, once you complete theproject and you don't need
those people, you've got peoplehanging around.
You don't really want to getrid of them necessarily.
So hiring to do projects,hiring to do work, that's going
to morph over time.
That sourcing piece, whetherit's inside the country, outside
(17:14):
the country, is always aninteresting thing to look into
and make good sense of.
And then, when you couple thatwith being able to do it in a
way that you're able to improvethe costs and, in many cases,
improve the timeline for gettingwork done.
That can be a really terrificway to grow the business and get
some of that infrastructure inplace that otherwise, you know,
(17:37):
you just can't hire enoughpeople fast enough to get it
done and you certainly can'tafford to, you know, do it at
the level that sometimes we'dlike to.
So, being able to be a littlemore pragmatic, when I need this
portion of the done, I'm goingto go near shore outsource this
piece.
When I need this portion, I'mgoing to go do that and maybe
keeping more of your projectmanagement or some of your
elements that you want to keepinternal that are going to be
(17:58):
consistent A hybrid environmentthere really does work well.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yeah, are there any risks in terms of valuation?
Or maybe, upside that,companies aren't thinking about
that if part of their team is ina different country and you
said 60% of transactions havetwo countries?
I'm going to guess maybe theinitial thesis is I need to keep
all my workers in one placebecause my valuation might be
(18:26):
affected later.
Are they thinking about thatthe wrong way?
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Nobody cares about that.
No buyer I know of cares aboutthat.
It's interesting.
I looked at an org chart of acompany that we're working with
and they had 12 developers stillworking out of the Ukraine.
There's the 12, here's whatthey do, here's the
functionality of it.
Here's how successful they are.
Why would you do it any otherway if it's working incredibly
well?
And you know, we have anothercompany that I worked with
(18:52):
that's sourcing out of LatinAmerica and they, you look at it
and you go, they have six orseven developers whatever it was
that are in Latin America.
They got four that are overhere in California and they got
six employees that are sittingin Minneapolis and they got
three that are sitting inBarcelona or wherever it was.
And it doesn't matter where itis.
What matters is getting theright talent doing the right
(19:13):
things at the right time for theright price so that you get
what you want built.
And if I have that and I'mworking through it and I've got,
you know, a great team, I don'tcare where they are.
If we're performing and hittingthe mark and if we're able to
really blow it out of the waterin terms of the ROI that we get
because we did it that way.
You're going to be more dingedin M&A for spending money and
(19:33):
not finishing and not having theright products and not being
ready to go to market, andthey're going to appreciate and
they're going to see.
You know, wherever you havepeople, it's really not a factor
.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
It's is it working well for you and is an efficient
and effective yeah, Ron, I wantto go back to your career in
Latin America, in particularCosta Rica.
Can you dive a little deeperthere and if there's any stories
you want to share?
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Well, yeah, I'll try to keep them clean.
I love Costa Rica.
First of all, I have to justtell you I love Latin America,
but I particularly love CostaRica, spent a lot of time there,
spent a lot of time on thecoast really beautiful and I
worked for a near shore sourcingorganization, both as a
consultant and then as a boardmember and you know, it's
(20:21):
interesting to me just the leveland quality of people we were
able to attract and the level offinishing kind of that.
They just things got done welland I always appreciated that.
There was kind of somethingkooky, though, that the first
couple times that I showed up inSan Jose and I walked into the
(20:44):
building, culturally, they wantto come greet you.
So you know, if you have a fewhundred people working there and
they all get up from their joband come, stand in line to come
give you a hug, it could reallycut into productivity.
I started when I came in for thefirst time during the week.
I started coming in early inthe morning, at six or six,
thirty or seven in the morning,so that I wasn't disruptive, but
(21:06):
it was always entertaining andthat particular company, they
had a great American staff andthey had a great Costa Rican
staff and they did a lot ofpitch and catch work, where you
might have one person working inthe US and they're coordinating
with a whole bunch of peoplethat are working in various
places in Latin America, but youended up with a very connected
(21:29):
team as a result, and because ofthe time zone capability, it
was really added to thatfunction as well, so I love that
aspect of it.
The other thing that'sinteresting and this is kind of,
I think, one of the things Ireally liked about and always
liked about Latin America inparticular is it has a little
bit of a vibe to it that youknow from a personal standpoint
(21:51):
is very enjoyable.
The people that I've run intoand been exposed to are some of
the best people I've ever met inmy life, and that makes it
entertaining and fun.
But what I found was, as westarted to find people that
really fit us and talentselection is everything, and if
you have a team that can helpyou really pick the right talent
and the right temperament andpersonality, it really makes all
(22:13):
the difference in the world.
And what I found was they werehiring people who really
understood the goals we had andreally understood how we wanted
to approach things and, as aresult, you know, every day was
just fun to go into work.
It was fun to work with thefolks we had.
It was fun to go do each ofthose things because you're
dealing with knowledgeablepeople who really want to be
successful and their idea ofsuccess is what do you want me
(22:35):
to do?
That's a really phenomenal vibeand I didn't experience that in
a lot of areas that we didsourcing from that weren't in
Latin America, frankly, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Kind of cool Now, ron , you've had such a great
experience in Costa Rica.
You got a place there.
Yeah, yeah, tell us more aboutthat, how that came to be, where
you ended up, and you knowdaily life when you're living
there.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
So, yeah, we, during COVID, we actually bought a
place, sight unseen, based on atransaction that took place in
the company we sold.
Beautiful, just a stunning viewof the ocean Couldn't be
prettier One of those thingswhere we bought it sight unseen,
just off of pictures and videos.
And we showed up and we'restanding on the balcony and if
(23:25):
you can imagine this 38 footwide balcony and about 175
degree view of water and you gotthe Gulf of Papagayo on this
side and the ocean on this side,and it's just stunning.
And in the background, with mytelescope, I can see Nicaragua
on a clear day and you know, westood there on the deck and it
just took our breath away.
Really, just stunning.
(23:47):
And then, over time, what we gotto realize was that even more
enjoyable were the people thatwe met there.
You know there were CostaRicans, expats from Canada and
the US and all kinds of placesand just an enjoyable
environment to be in and thevibe in the country is not
driven off of, uh, dailypolitical disruption, like you
(24:09):
get some places that rhyme withus and, uh, it just there's.
You know, we just would tuneout to that.
I'd read up about it, but Ididn't fixate on it and you know
you're working away and get upat you know from your work at
noon and you take 45 minutesbreak to go swim in the sun and
enjoy the 85 degree weather,have a little light bite and go
(24:31):
back and work five more hours.
Not a bad life, just abeautiful place to be.
The other thing I think isfascinating this is the other
thing I think is great aboutCosta Rica and really a lot of
Latin America is I find that thepeople that I run into there's
a richness of character andthere's a richness of kind of
origin, if you will, and theyask different questions and I
(25:00):
noticed this when we were in thenear-shore sourcing world that
sometimes their view of itforced us to think a little
differently and it became alittle bit more wider in our
thinking than maybe typicalAmericanized thinking.
And I found that bothpersonally, but I also found it
from a business standpoint andit made us better frankly,
that's right.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
If anybody listening wants to learn more about you,
connect with you, learn moreabout Quorum, what's the best
way to do that?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Well, there's a bunch of ways you can do that.
Probably the easiest way isvery simple.
It's r-o-n-n at quorumgroupcom.
It's a very difficult email.
That's probably the easiest way.
If you go to quorumgroupcom,you can see our website that we
have the company I work with.
Nobody's sold more technologybusinesses on earth than them
(25:52):
and it's a great operation.
We have lots of researchers,love to talk to anybody.
It doesn't mean that we'regoing to be involved with it,
happy to guide you where youneed to talk to anybody.
It doesn't mean that we'regoing to be involved with it,
happy to guide you where youneed to go to find the right
information.
One other thing I was going tomention to you, brian, and I
don't know.
You know, sometimes peoplewonder you know, what's the best
way to approach what I want todo with my business.
Do I want to do?
(26:13):
I want to sell it now?
Do I want to wait?
Do I, am I going to try tomarket time?
Do I want to sell part of mybusiness?
Do I want to take some moneyoff the table, get some more
money?
There's a lot of questions thatpeople have and one of the best
ways you can really get throughthat is to get real good
information, real solidinformation.
We put on hundreds of eventsevery year.
(26:35):
We do several, I think 300 liveevents a year at Quorum and we
just completed a series of thosein India.
We have them all over the worldand you know that's one way you
can learn a lot is go to thatevents page on that,
quorumgroupcom, and find anevent that you think will be
valuable and go check it out.
There's a lot of greatinformation you can get for no
(26:57):
cost, just a little timeinvestment and it'll really help
make you smarter on what you'retrying to accomplish.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
And that's great, Ron .
Thank you so much.
This has been a really greatepisode.
I personally learned a lotabout the 60% of companies that
do a transaction are in two ormore countries.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Blew me away.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, that's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
That's amazing.
We're in a global market, thething that's interesting to me.
Yeah, that's.
That's so interesting, that'samazing.
We're in a global market, thething that's interesting to me.
You know, before we go, I wantto just share with you.
I love the.
You know the.
Your sponsor is Plug.
I love the the concept of nomatter where the talent is, find
the right talent and make thepricing reasonable.
And you know that that to me islike the secret of figuring out
(27:41):
how to grow businesses withoutbreaking the bank, and so I'm
intrigued by what they're doing.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Appreciate that.
Thanks, ron.
As Ron said, we'll thank oursponsor, plug Technologies.
That's PLUGGtech Great way tofind talent all over Latin
America connecting with growingcompanies.
You're listening to theNearshore Cafe podcast.
Thanks again to our guest, ron,and we will see you next time.
Take care.
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