April 8, 2025 • 29 mins
🌍 With global talent more accessible than ever, many companies are asking:
Is nearshoring the key to building scalable, high-performing remote teams in 2025?
In this episode of The Nearshore Café Podcast, host Brian Samson sits down with Josh Allan Dykstra, CEO of Work Revolution, to explore the pros and pitfalls of nearshoring—based on real-life experience hiring across Ecuador, Mexico, Venezuela, Israel, Brazil, and the U.S.
Josh shares what worked, what didn’t, and what every founder, startup leader, and hiring manager should know before investing in nearshore talent.
🔍 In This Episode:
• Why nearshoring may (or may not) be right for your company
• Josh’s first-hand experience hiring in Latin America
• How to maintain culture across borders and time zones
• The role of agencies like Virtual Latinos in sourcing great talent
• How AI is reshaping the way leaders manage global teams
• What to avoid when scaling remote operations
💡 This episode is perfect for founders, HR leaders, COOs, and anyone navigating the future of work, distributed teams, or international hiring strategies.
🔗 Connect With Us:
• 🎙️ Guest: Josh Allan Dykstra – https://joshallan.com/
• 💼 Host: Brian Samson – https://www.linkedin.com/in/briansamson
• 🧩 Sponsor: Plugg Technologies – https://www.plugg.tech
• 🌐 Podcast Website: https://www.nearshorecafepodcast.com
🗓️ New episodes weekly – insights on nearshore hiring, remote team building, and tech culture.
📢 Don’t forget to LIKE, SUBSCRIBE, and TURN ON NOTIFICATIONS for more insights on Latin America’s growing tech scene! 🎧🔥
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🔗 Stay Connected:
✅ Host: Brian Samson | LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/briansamson/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome.
(00:26):
Welcome to another episode ofthe Nearshore Cafe podcast.
I'm Brian Sampson, your host.
Today is going to be a greatshow if you are thinking about
hiring an executive assistant, avirtual assistant.
Really some leverage and howall that comes into play in
Latin America.
(00:46):
Before I introduce our guests,let me thank our sponsor, plug
Technologies PLUGGtech great wayto connect talent all over
Latin America with US companies.
Without further ado, let meintroduce Josh Allen Dykstra,
ceo of WorkRevolution.
Josh, great to have you on theshow.
Thanks for having me Brian.
Josh, we've talked a coupletimes and you're known
(01:10):
throughout the industry for yourkeynotes and really the mission
that you've been focused onmost, if not all your career.
Maybe let's start there.
Just give a little bit aboutyour mission and what's been
driving you all these years.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, sure, sure.
So initially I thought I wasgoing to do music.
So I grew up as a classicallytrained pianist on stages and
churches and recitals and stufflike that, and so I always knew
I liked to be on stages and soas I got into high school,
picked up more instruments, thengot into college, started
writing songs, forming bands,and so I kind of left college
(01:47):
with this idea that I shouldprobably be a rock star, and so
I decided that would be a goodplan and moved to Los Angeles
and got a management deal andshopped the record labels and
recorded the albums and did thegigs and then realized pretty
quickly that I actually did notwant to do the music business.
I love music, but I did notlike the music business.
(02:09):
So I had this quarter-lifecrisis, dark night of the soul.
I was like what am I going todo if I'm not going to do this
thing?
I thought I was going to do,and so I reflected on all these
jobs I'd had as a musician, onall these jobs I'd had as a
musician, and what I noticed wasthat when my job was better, my
(02:34):
life was better.
When I had a good manager andthere was a good culture, it
affected the rest of my life ina positive way.
And then, on the opposite side,if it was a crappy manager and
it was just like, that wasreally interesting to me.
And so I did a little bit ofresearch, realized that this
isn't a Josh thing, this is aneverybody thing, right, everyone
is just completely.
We're just so impacted by ourwork because we spend the
majority of our waking livesthere, so of course we are.
(02:55):
Then I did a little moreresearch and realized, oh my
goodness, most everybodyactually does not like work,
right, most everybody kind ofhates it or at best they feel
kind of meh about work.
And I was like that's reallydumb, why did we build a life
like that?
And so I've devoted.
So it's been almost 20 yearsnow, but I've devoted my career
(03:18):
to trying to make work not suckfor as many humans as I possibly
can, and that's.
I'm kind of like a serialentrepreneur in that space.
So, like everything I do is hasbeen like towards that mission.
But yeah, I've done a bunch ofdifferent companies, right,
consulting firms and you know,training coaches and consultants
(03:39):
and tech companies and allsorts of things, but always
after this idea of how do wemake work life-giving instead of
life-sucking.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Love it.
Let's actually dive a littledeeper, kind of, you know,
step-by-step, because I thinkthat shapes the narrative later
for how you might have thoughtabout leverage.
But if you could start like thefirst couple of companies, what
were they, what were you doingall that?
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah.
So when I was transitioning outof music and into this thing I
was, I was pretty enamored withthis, this notion that, you know
, people could get paid to speakfrom stages instead of, you
know, sing from stages, uh,which very few people get paid
for that right and so I thought,oh, that's interesting.
And then you could write booksinstead of write songs.
So it's just, there's thisworld of performance, art inside
(04:27):
kind of a business context,which seemed like a much more
reasonable way to actually likepay my rent and buy food.
So I thought that seems like agood idea.
Strangely, I didn't end upactually doing that stuff, like
being on stages as a speaker forquite a few years.
The first business that I endedup doing came out of the great
(04:54):
financial crisis, so I went backto school, got an MBA focused
in leadership I'm not a financeMBA so I got out of this with a
shiny degree.
I graduated in 2009.
So right into the middle of thefinancial crisis, not really
having any luck finding a job.
But fortunately some friendsfrom grad school brought me in
to work with their companies andso I became a consultant kind
of accidentally, and so Istarted consulting around
(05:14):
leadership and culture andemployee engagement and positive
psychology and strengths andhow to do more of what you
should, more of the things thatare right with you and that
bring you energy, instead of thethings that are wrong with you
and that suck the life out ofyou.
And so I started doing a lot ofconsulting, a lot of workshops.
I did a lot of little stages,right, like small groups of
people that I got to speak withand to, and that's what I did
(05:39):
for almost a decade is mostlyconsulting and workshops, is
mostly consulting and workshops.
In 2012, I published my firstbook, first business book, and
so then I started actuallygetting on more stages and it
was slow, right, it was slowgoing and it was always kind of
on the side of my consulting andworkshops business.
(06:01):
And then I ended up doing a TEDTalk in 2018 called how Work
Can Heal the World, and that wasa pretty transformational
experience for me.
And then, after the TED Talk, Ijust totally stopped speaking.
This was not a very smartbusiness move, but it's kind of
what I needed.
(06:21):
I had been on the road now forover a decade.
I was pretty burned out onbusiness travel.
My kiddos were little babies,we had just moved to Denver, I
wanted to be home more, and so Ijust stopped.
I stopped speaking and I builta business where we trained
coaches and consultants.
So we trained three or 400coaches, consultants and HR
(06:42):
people inside companies and out,and then, I don't know about
six-ish years ago, I got thiscrazy idea to build a tech
company.
I thought, you know, this is abig problem, right?
People do not like their work.
All over the world, right,there's hundreds of millions of
us that experience this kind ofdisconnect from loving our work.
(07:03):
We just don't.
And so I thought, to meet thescale of this problem at kind of
the scale of the whole, youneed something exponential like
tech.
And so I was like I'm going tobuild some technology.
So this is, like you know, 2018or something like that, 2019.
So, man, brian, I thought wehad it right.
I thought because we were going, because then the pandemic came
(07:24):
and I was like employers arelike, oh, we need digital stuff,
we care about flexibility, workfrom home, we need more tech
products to help with this.
You know, we care about yourburnout.
I mean, that was the message fora couple of years, I really,
and I thought we were building aunicorn.
I thought we were gonna.
We were building the unicorn.
I thought we were building abillion-dollar company, but it
(07:47):
was not to be.
When the tailwinds switched toheadwinds in 2023 or so and
people started demanding returnto office, we were underfunded.
We didn't raise enough back inthe day.
So I learned a lot of valuablelessons and, yeah, when we
closed that company down lastyear, I really thought what do I
(08:08):
want to do?
And speaking became my thing.
That was what I wanted to goback in, because I didn't do
enough of it back in the day,and so that's primarily.
What I do now is speaking andthought leadership.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, yeah, back to your tech company.
I remember those, the years ofquiet, quitting and everyone
resignation.
Yeah, the great resignations.
More probably twice as manyjobs available as there were
people, and yeah, yeah it was.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
It was just a yeah, it was such a market for
employees, it was such a richtime for people, for labor, for
workers, and then to see it kindof flip pretty hard in the last
couple of years has been aninteresting bit of whiplash.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah.
How would you describe themarket today for labor?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
I think what we're still seeing, a lot of this
whiplash effect.
The pendulum has swung back, Ithink, the other way.
In a lot of ways there's stillat least here in the US, there's
still a decent amount of getback to the office kind of stuff
.
We've got all this office realestate and we try to make a good
(09:28):
case or leaders try to make acase, saying that this helps
collaboration or we do our bestwork when we do it together in
person and the data reallydoesn't bear that out as true.
But it's a good talking linefor the reporters, I guess.
(09:51):
But yeah, I think this kind ofhybrid, remote thing is.
I think it's here to stay, atleast in people's psyches
(10:21):
no-transcript.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Only hire in the US.
Did you have people all overthe country?
What did that look like?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
We were totally spread out.
My Other companies, so myservice-based companies, were
actually fully remote.
So we were those kind of likedistributed, remote, you know,
kind of.
We were that kind of companywhen you know, before it was
cool, right.
So before it was necessary wewere, we had really kind of
learned how to work on Zoom andin Slack and build a really
(10:54):
cohesive culture remotely andvirtually, because we were just
my business partners at the timewere in Kansas City and I'm in
Denver, and then neither of uswere going to move to the other
place and so it was like, well,I guess we've got to figure this
out.
And then when we started hiringpeople, we always just, yeah,
hired them from anywhere.
It just kind of made sense,right, we weren't limited by
(11:14):
geography at all.
So kind of at our peak we hadjust about 20 people and we had
people, yeah, all over the world.
We had people in Austin and wehad people in Israel and we had
people in Brazil and Mexico andwe had people in Venezuela and
just kind of, yeah, just likeall I think, I think we were
(11:36):
across I don't know four or fivetime zones and yeah, it was a
really it was a cool adventure.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yeah, what did you learn?
Or maybe you know what kind ofadvice could you share to
leaders that are building remotecompanies and they've got
people on different time zones,different countries, you know,
and there's the leadership partof that and there's also the
management part of that.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah, I think that the one of the most important
things to think about when whendoing a remote thing is that you
have to just be so much moreintentional about something like
culture.
Right, cause what happens in anoffice and I think this is
maybe one of the things thatoffice people have, you know,
office-based leaders havestruggled with is that they're
(12:21):
conflating culture and office.
Because when you're in anoffice, you can actually be kind
of lazy about culture.
Because what happens in anoffice culture is people have
natural collisions.
Right, they can stop by yourdesk and you might run into each
other in the hallway or in thebathroom or the water cooler or
in a cafeteria, right, likethese collisions kind of happen
(12:42):
organically when you're in thesame physical space, and of
course, that doesn't happen ifyou're spread across five time
zones and you only meet on Zoom.
So the biggest thing I would sayfor leaders of remote is you
have to just be very intentionaland thoughtful about the
culture that you want.
You're going to have a culture.
(13:02):
It's going to be the outgrowthof you as a senior leader or as
the founder.
You're going to imbue thiscompany with the things that are
important to you.
You just have to be reallythoughtful about if that's the
way that you actually want it tobe, because some of us have
really quirky ways of doingthings or we have learned some
(13:24):
bad habits from working for badmanagers or whatever, and so you
can absolutely build aworld-class, phenomenal culture
entirely remotely.
You just have to do it in avery intentional way.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, how would that come into play when it's US only
versus?
Like you know, you had peoplein Israel, you had people in
Texas, you had people in LatinAmerica.
What were some of the nuancesthat you had to keep in mind
with that?
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I think one of the things that we did really well
was to celebrate not justcompany culture, but like
culture culture right, like allof these different rich cultures
from all of these differentplaces in the world.
What we did we ended up havinga culture meeting once, once a
month.
This is one of my businesspartners.
(14:11):
Ideas was to, uh, really try tolike, deliberately, celebrate
and learn about hey, what areyour holidays in Venezuela?
What are you like doing todayin Israel?
What are you like, Right?
So it's like we tried to openup a space, or create a space
and hold a space for people tobe able to share and celebrate
(14:34):
the things about their culturethat we would maybe would not
know or understand, or theirculture that we would maybe
would not know or understand, oruh, and that was really rich,
that was a really rich time forus.
Um, is there's?
There's so many things where,across the world, we want the
same things.
Right, and I think that's theother thing that I learned very
(14:55):
clearly from from doing this isthere are many things that we
all just they're the same thatwe want.
We all want respect and dignityand time off and flexibility
and the ability to be with ourfriends and family and be able
to work in our strengths andlike that stuff is true no
matter where you are in theworld.
And then there's also thesereally unique things that I
(15:18):
think are really important tocelebrate the uniqueness of the
different cultures, and so I'dsay it's kind of like both of
those things, like appreciateall of the similarities that we
have and then celebrate theplaces that were different, and
if you can do both of thosethings, you'll have an awesome,
awesome culture, no matter whereyour people are.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, and then just with all the different places
that you operated in, you hadteam members in, it sounded like
it was an intentional choice ofgood talent can be anywhere,
versus say like, okay, we'regoing to be US-based and
Venezuelan-based and all of ournon-US people will be in
(15:57):
Venezuela.
Can you share a little bit oflike how that thinking kind of
came to be and did you, did youdebate that at all internally?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
That's a that's a great, really interesting
question.
I don't I don't know that weever even really talked about it
in that way.
So some of our core or corevalues right as a company we
called them vital behaviors butsome of these really core belief
system kinds of things that weorganized around, one of our
(16:30):
very first ones was to startwith energy, and what we mean by
that is that we start theconversation, the way that we
start our dialogue with peopleis to start with what brings
them life and energy, and sowhen you start with that frame,
it just doesn't even really comeup where they live.
(16:50):
It just doesn't.
It's kind of irrelevant.
It's almost like a degree orsomething like I don't really
care if you have a degree, Idon't really care where you live
.
Can you do the job and like,will you be energized by the
work you need to do and do youalign with our values?
Then it's great.
But yeah, it's really it'sfunny because we never I don't
(17:14):
think we ever even had aconversation in that frame of
like, where should we hirepeople from?
It just didn't matter.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Can you think back to the first time you hired
outside of the U?
S and like just the mechanicsof it?
You know, like how did you like?
Did you go to Upwork oragencies?
You know how did you guys evenstart?
And I'm sure there's, you know,uh, business owners, startup
founders that are listening andthey're like this know, business
owners, startup founders thatare listening and they're like
this sounds interesting, likewhat's the first step, what's
(17:44):
step two, what's step three?
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, yeah, so initially and I don't remember
how we got connected to thesefolks, brian, but somehow we got
connected to a group calledVirtual Latinos and that was our
go-to for a while and they didus real well right, they found
us some really amazing folks and, yes, but we always went
(18:07):
through an agency like that.
So there was a couple projectshere and there that we've done
over the years through like anUpwork where we contract
directly with the person.
But, yeah, more so I would saythe people that we hired were
always through an agency, likelike a virtual, as he knows, and
for us it was a greatexperience.
(18:28):
I think they every everybody'sinterests are kind of aligned
right, because the agency wantsto do a good job, right.
They want to put a great personwho fits what you need into
your company, which, of course,what we want as company
operators, and so everybody'sinterests are aligned there and,
yeah, I just I thought it was agreat system that worked really
(18:50):
well.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, did you.
Were these like virtualassistant type roles, do you
remember, or like Not?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
not always.
No, like we, we did a lot ofdifferent things.
So we did everything from, uh,like, a video production person
in Mexico to project managers,to customer success people,
cause you know, this was mostlywith the tech company, right?
So we had a lot of kind ofdifferent roles that we needed
to fit, fill in there.
(19:18):
Um, trying to think the otherones that we had, a lot of kind
of different roles that weneeded to fill in there, trying
to think the other ones that wehad.
But, yeah, it was a pretty widegamut of a bunch of different
kinds of roles, and then wewould.
What we would try our best to dowhich is what we would do with
everyone who worked in ourcompany is try to evolve them
over time into roles that theyfelt really energized by.
(19:42):
So again, that was ourphilosophy, but, yeah, and that
really worked well, I think, fora lot of the folks that worked
with us, because over time youget to do more things that
energize you and hopefully, lessof the things that don't, and
then maybe we can go and hiresomebody else who actually
enjoys doing the things thatnobody else wants to do and that
so that was always a part ofour philosophy is just because
(20:04):
nobody here is energized by thatthing doesn't mean that there's
nobody anywhere.
That is right.
We just need to go find thatperson who's energized by that
thing and recruit them.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah and the mechanics of it.
Now, did you, um, did you putthese people outside of the US
on your payroll or was it on theagency's payroll and you would
get like an invoice?
And I'm asking you know forother listeners.
That was really simple, youknow.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
So, yeah, from a company operator perspective,
that's a pretty, that's a prettyeasy transaction, and so I, you
know, I imagine that's at leastone of the reasons why they're
doing it that way, and then alsoit kind of like shields us a
(20:51):
little bit too from having tounderstand all of the
complexities of doing businessin all of these different
countries.
Right, that's.
The other obvious benefitprobably is I don't want to have
to like learn about how to youknow set up registered entities
in you know ecuador, if I don'thave to right like that.
So, but yeah, I alwaysappreciate the agencies for that
(21:15):
too yeah sure.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Would you say there was any work that you would be
uncomfortable moving offshore ornearshore, or was everything on
the table in your company?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Oh, let's see, I'd say almost everything was on the
table, right, we kept a lot ofthe strategic leadership team
roles here, not not because wedidn't believe we couldn't find
them elsewhere, but just becausethis is where the founders were
, you know.
So, and we had a pretty clearvision for what we were trying
(21:51):
to create and what we weretrying to do, and and yeah, so
we never got to that point wherewe were recruiting, you know,
another person for theleadership team or the strategic
team or right Like at thatlevel we never recruited for,
and so it would.
That would have been aninteresting exercise to see how
we would have done that.
But yeah, it was, it was.
(22:12):
It was I was pleased witheverybody we hired.
I mean, yeah, it was a reallygood experience overall.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, so today, in your role as CEO of Work
Revolution, you're doing a lotof writing, a lot of speaking
and, from my understanding,you're working with executive
assistants, virtual assistants,to give you leverage.
Can you tell us more about thatand what countries you're
working with?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
yeah, right now I do have one.
I call her my chief of staffand so still part time, right,
we're we're building.
Right, this is this is buildingphase of new business.
So, yeah, entrepreneurs outthere, you know this phase.
Right, you're wearing a lot ofhats and working a lot of hours.
But, yeah, I'm really happy tohave a little bit of help from a
(23:03):
new colleague in Ecuador and so, yeah, she's been great and
it's still very new and so we'restill kind of learning how to
work together.
She's learning about all myidiosyncrasies and all of that.
But, yeah, it's been just ahuge help already in helping me
on social media and doing reachouts and building the database.
(23:26):
Yeah, so it's kind of acombination of some I wouldn't
say too much admin stuff.
Like there's right now she'sdoing a lot of social stuff and
a lot of kind of sales, reachout kind of stuff to help us
build the pipeline of peoplethat we will hopefully get to
partner and work with down theroad, but are using, like Asana
(23:47):
and Slack and you know, tocommunicate work and outcomes
and feedback, and Google MeetLike what kind of tools are you
using?
Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, I've beena Zoom guy forever and I've been
(24:11):
a Slack guy forever also.
So those are still my two mainplatforms, those are still my
two two main platforms.
And then, other than that, weuse a lot of Google Docs to kind
of go back and forth and createdatabases and spreadsheets, you
know, for people we're reachingout to.
And yeah, so those are.
Those are probably my, my keycollaborative tools.
(24:32):
Yeah, g Suite, slack, zoom, Ithink.
I think that's.
That's the majority.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
And any issues with English fluency communicating
with your chief of staff inEcuador.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
No, not this.
No, she's incredible.
Might be more fluent than me, Idon't know.
It's pretty incredible.
In the past we had some of thatchallenge with some people,
challenge with some people Neveranything that was like a deal
(25:05):
breaker, but yeah, sometimes itwas a little bit challenging.
But I think you can if you justmake that part of your hiring
process right.
So cause, not every role needsto be like super crazy fluent,
right, like some roles, right,they're working more in the
background, or they're workingon data, or they're working on
projects and they're not supercustomer facing and it's you
know, and they kill it and it'sfine, you know, if.
(25:26):
If they're not a hundredpercent, you know English fluent
, so I think it just depends onthe job.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah, shifting gears a little bit to what you're
doing.
Now you know you're a prolificwriter, prolific speaker.
There's a lot of content tobring together.
Tell us about how you're usingAI for that.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, so what I'm experimenting with currently is
so right now I'm a chat GPT userand a subscriber, so I pay for
their pro plan or whatever it'scalled, or the plus plan, I
don't know, and the one that'snot super, there's a super
expensive one.
Now too.
I don't do that one, but likethe middle one, and what I'm
(26:06):
experiencing with now is istrying to kind of like feed it
all of my writing, because I'vegot I've been blogging.
I've been blogging for 20.
I think it's been 20 years.
I think I posted my first blogin January of 2005.
So I think it's actually been 20years since I started blogging,
which is insane to me and I soI want to like feed GPT all of
(26:30):
my writing.
So I just thought the other dayI was like this would be like
it should know what I think andhow I write, and like I've got
this huge resource of all ofthis stuff that I've written
over the years and how coolwould it be for it to be able to
like ask this thing questionsabout myself.
And so this is my currentcurrent project, like side
(26:52):
project, and uh, so far I've notgone back that far.
Right, I just went to like Idon't know middle of last year
or something, and fed it all ofmy articles.
But it's amazing just how I candialogue with it now at a
really high level because itunderstands some of my verbiage
and my perspective and framingand it's really impressive.
(27:18):
That's what I'm playing withnow and I think it's gonna cut
my book writing time and much,much, uh.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Smaller than it'd be, much shorter than, I think, the
last book that I wrote yeah, aswe start to uh wind down the
show, josh, um, you know, asyou've been exposed to a lot of
different countries around theworld, where's the next place
that you love to travel to thatyou haven't been to yet?
Oh goodness.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
For forever.
My answer to this was Thailand,and I actually got to go there
last year, and so that wasfabulous.
Let's see.
Yeah, what's next?
Maybe I feel like there's someplaces in Europe that I would
like to visit that I haven'tbeen, so some of the Nordic
(28:05):
countries I would like to visit.
I've got some heritage there,so that might be up on my list.
Then also, I don't know, I hearCroatia's beautiful, I'd love
to.
So there's some places inEurope I think I need to hear.
Croatia is beautiful, I'd loveto.
So there's some places inEurope I think I need to get to
next, probably.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, great stuff.
Where can listeners find you?
Where would you like them tolook you up?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah, please do come connect with me.
I'm super easy to find, as longas you can remember how to
spell my name.
Look me up on LinkedIn, so JoshAllen Dykstra, and then also at
joshallencom.
So that's the other other place.
Just remember, allen has twoA's and two L's A-L-L-A-N.
Joshallencom and yeah, thoseare probably the best places.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Stuff.
Well, you're listening to theNear Short Cafe podcast
sponsored by Plug TechnologiesP-L-U-G-G dot tech.
Great way to connect talentfrom all over Latin America,
just like Josh shared with hischief of staff virtual
assistants, video production allsorts of great stuff.
Thanks so much for listeningeverybody.
We'll see you next time.
Welcome.
(00:26):
Welcome to another episode ofthe Nearshore Cafe podcast.
I'm Brian Sampson, your host.
Today is going to be a greatshow if you are thinking about
hiring an executive assistant, avirtual assistant.
Really some leverage and howall that comes into play in
Latin America.
(00:46):
Before I introduce our guests,let me thank our sponsor, plug
Technologies PLUGGtech great wayto connect talent all over
Latin America with US companies.
Without further ado, let meintroduce Josh Allen Dykstra,
ceo of WorkRevolution.
Josh, great to have you on theshow.
Thanks for having me Brian.
Josh, we've talked a coupletimes and you're known
(01:10):
throughout the industry for yourkeynotes and really the mission
that you've been focused onmost, if not all your career.
Maybe let's start there.
Just give a little bit aboutyour mission and what's been
driving you all these years.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, sure, sure.
So initially I thought I wasgoing to do music.
So I grew up as a classicallytrained pianist on stages and
churches and recitals and stufflike that, and so I always knew
I liked to be on stages and soas I got into high school,
picked up more instruments, thengot into college, started
writing songs, forming bands,and so I kind of left college
(01:47):
with this idea that I shouldprobably be a rock star, and so
I decided that would be a goodplan and moved to Los Angeles
and got a management deal andshopped the record labels and
recorded the albums and did thegigs and then realized pretty
quickly that I actually did notwant to do the music business.
I love music, but I did notlike the music business.
(02:09):
So I had this quarter-lifecrisis, dark night of the soul.
I was like what am I going todo if I'm not going to do this
thing?
I thought I was going to do,and so I reflected on all these
jobs I'd had as a musician, onall these jobs I'd had as a
musician, and what I noticed wasthat when my job was better, my
(02:34):
life was better.
When I had a good manager andthere was a good culture, it
affected the rest of my life ina positive way.
And then, on the opposite side,if it was a crappy manager and
it was just like, that wasreally interesting to me.
And so I did a little bit ofresearch, realized that this
isn't a Josh thing, this is aneverybody thing, right, everyone
is just completely.
We're just so impacted by ourwork because we spend the
majority of our waking livesthere, so of course we are.
(02:55):
Then I did a little moreresearch and realized, oh my
goodness, most everybodyactually does not like work,
right, most everybody kind ofhates it or at best they feel
kind of meh about work.
And I was like that's reallydumb, why did we build a life
like that?
And so I've devoted.
So it's been almost 20 yearsnow, but I've devoted my career
(03:18):
to trying to make work not suckfor as many humans as I possibly
can, and that's.
I'm kind of like a serialentrepreneur in that space.
So, like everything I do is hasbeen like towards that mission.
But yeah, I've done a bunch ofdifferent companies, right,
consulting firms and you know,training coaches and consultants
(03:39):
and tech companies and allsorts of things, but always
after this idea of how do wemake work life-giving instead of
life-sucking.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Love it.
Let's actually dive a littledeeper, kind of, you know,
step-by-step, because I thinkthat shapes the narrative later
for how you might have thoughtabout leverage.
But if you could start like thefirst couple of companies, what
were they, what were you doingall that?
Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah.
So when I was transitioning outof music and into this thing I
was, I was pretty enamored withthis, this notion that, you know
, people could get paid to speakfrom stages instead of, you
know, sing from stages, uh,which very few people get paid
for that right and so I thought,oh, that's interesting.
And then you could write booksinstead of write songs.
So it's just, there's thisworld of performance, art inside
(04:27):
kind of a business context,which seemed like a much more
reasonable way to actually likepay my rent and buy food.
So I thought that seems like agood idea.
Strangely, I didn't end upactually doing that stuff, like
being on stages as a speaker forquite a few years.
The first business that I endedup doing came out of the great
(04:54):
financial crisis, so I went backto school, got an MBA focused
in leadership I'm not a financeMBA so I got out of this with a
shiny degree.
I graduated in 2009.
So right into the middle of thefinancial crisis, not really
having any luck finding a job.
But fortunately some friendsfrom grad school brought me in
to work with their companies andso I became a consultant kind
of accidentally, and so Istarted consulting around
(05:14):
leadership and culture andemployee engagement and positive
psychology and strengths andhow to do more of what you
should, more of the things thatare right with you and that
bring you energy, instead of thethings that are wrong with you
and that suck the life out ofyou.
And so I started doing a lot ofconsulting, a lot of workshops.
I did a lot of little stages,right, like small groups of
people that I got to speak withand to, and that's what I did
(05:39):
for almost a decade is mostlyconsulting and workshops, is
mostly consulting and workshops.
In 2012, I published my firstbook, first business book, and
so then I started actuallygetting on more stages and it
was slow, right, it was slowgoing and it was always kind of
on the side of my consulting andworkshops business.
(06:01):
And then I ended up doing a TEDTalk in 2018 called how Work
Can Heal the World, and that wasa pretty transformational
experience for me.
And then, after the TED Talk, Ijust totally stopped speaking.
This was not a very smartbusiness move, but it's kind of
what I needed.
(06:21):
I had been on the road now forover a decade.
I was pretty burned out onbusiness travel.
My kiddos were little babies,we had just moved to Denver, I
wanted to be home more, and so Ijust stopped.
I stopped speaking and I builta business where we trained
coaches and consultants.
So we trained three or 400coaches, consultants and HR
(06:42):
people inside companies and out,and then, I don't know about
six-ish years ago, I got thiscrazy idea to build a tech
company.
I thought, you know, this is abig problem, right?
People do not like their work.
All over the world, right,there's hundreds of millions of
us that experience this kind ofdisconnect from loving our work.
(07:03):
We just don't.
And so I thought, to meet thescale of this problem at kind of
the scale of the whole, youneed something exponential like
tech.
And so I was like I'm going tobuild some technology.
So this is, like you know, 2018or something like that, 2019.
So, man, brian, I thought wehad it right.
I thought because we were going, because then the pandemic came
(07:24):
and I was like employers arelike, oh, we need digital stuff,
we care about flexibility, workfrom home, we need more tech
products to help with this.
You know, we care about yourburnout.
I mean, that was the message fora couple of years, I really,
and I thought we were building aunicorn.
I thought we were gonna.
We were building the unicorn.
I thought we were building abillion-dollar company, but it
(07:47):
was not to be.
When the tailwinds switched toheadwinds in 2023 or so and
people started demanding returnto office, we were underfunded.
We didn't raise enough back inthe day.
So I learned a lot of valuablelessons and, yeah, when we
closed that company down lastyear, I really thought what do I
(08:08):
want to do?
And speaking became my thing.
That was what I wanted to goback in, because I didn't do
enough of it back in the day,and so that's primarily.
What I do now is speaking andthought leadership.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, yeah, back to your tech company.
I remember those, the years ofquiet, quitting and everyone
resignation.
Yeah, the great resignations.
More probably twice as manyjobs available as there were
people, and yeah, yeah it was.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
It was just a yeah, it was such a market for
employees, it was such a richtime for people, for labor, for
workers, and then to see it kindof flip pretty hard in the last
couple of years has been aninteresting bit of whiplash.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
Yeah.
How would you describe themarket today for labor?
Speaker 2 (09:06):
I think what we're still seeing, a lot of this
whiplash effect.
The pendulum has swung back, Ithink, the other way.
In a lot of ways there's stillat least here in the US, there's
still a decent amount of getback to the office kind of stuff
.
We've got all this office realestate and we try to make a good
(09:28):
case or leaders try to make acase, saying that this helps
collaboration or we do our bestwork when we do it together in
person and the data reallydoesn't bear that out as true.
But it's a good talking linefor the reporters, I guess.
(09:51):
But yeah, I think this kind ofhybrid, remote thing is.
I think it's here to stay, atleast in people's psyches
(10:21):
no-transcript.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Only hire in the US.
Did you have people all overthe country?
What did that look like?
Speaker 2 (10:30):
We were totally spread out.
My Other companies, so myservice-based companies, were
actually fully remote.
So we were those kind of likedistributed, remote, you know,
kind of.
We were that kind of companywhen you know, before it was
cool, right.
So before it was necessary wewere, we had really kind of
learned how to work on Zoom andin Slack and build a really
(10:54):
cohesive culture remotely andvirtually, because we were just
my business partners at the timewere in Kansas City and I'm in
Denver, and then neither of uswere going to move to the other
place and so it was like, well,I guess we've got to figure this
out.
And then when we started hiringpeople, we always just, yeah,
hired them from anywhere.
It just kind of made sense,right, we weren't limited by
(11:14):
geography at all.
So kind of at our peak we hadjust about 20 people and we had
people, yeah, all over the world.
We had people in Austin and wehad people in Israel and we had
people in Brazil and Mexico andwe had people in Venezuela and
just kind of, yeah, just likeall I think, I think we were
(11:36):
across I don't know four or fivetime zones and yeah, it was a
really it was a cool adventure.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yeah, what did you learn?
Or maybe you know what kind ofadvice could you share to
leaders that are building remotecompanies and they've got
people on different time zones,different countries, you know,
and there's the leadership partof that and there's also the
management part of that.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah, I think that the one of the most important
things to think about when whendoing a remote thing is that you
have to just be so much moreintentional about something like
culture.
Right, cause what happens in anoffice and I think this is
maybe one of the things thatoffice people have, you know,
office-based leaders havestruggled with is that they're
(12:21):
conflating culture and office.
Because when you're in anoffice, you can actually be kind
of lazy about culture.
Because what happens in anoffice culture is people have
natural collisions.
Right, they can stop by yourdesk and you might run into each
other in the hallway or in thebathroom or the water cooler or
in a cafeteria, right, likethese collisions kind of happen
(12:42):
organically when you're in thesame physical space, and of
course, that doesn't happen ifyou're spread across five time
zones and you only meet on Zoom.
So the biggest thing I would sayfor leaders of remote is you
have to just be very intentionaland thoughtful about the
culture that you want.
You're going to have a culture.
(13:02):
It's going to be the outgrowthof you as a senior leader or as
the founder.
You're going to imbue thiscompany with the things that are
important to you.
You just have to be reallythoughtful about if that's the
way that you actually want it tobe, because some of us have
really quirky ways of doingthings or we have learned some
(13:24):
bad habits from working for badmanagers or whatever, and so you
can absolutely build aworld-class, phenomenal culture
entirely remotely.
You just have to do it in avery intentional way.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah, how would that come into play when it's US only
versus?
Like you know, you had peoplein Israel, you had people in
Texas, you had people in LatinAmerica.
What were some of the nuancesthat you had to keep in mind
with that?
Speaker 2 (13:51):
I think one of the things that we did really well
was to celebrate not justcompany culture, but like
culture culture right, like allof these different rich cultures
from all of these differentplaces in the world.
What we did we ended up havinga culture meeting once, once a
month.
This is one of my businesspartners.
(14:11):
Ideas was to, uh, really try tolike, deliberately, celebrate
and learn about hey, what areyour holidays in Venezuela?
What are you like doing todayin Israel?
What are you like, Right?
So it's like we tried to openup a space, or create a space
and hold a space for people tobe able to share and celebrate
(14:34):
the things about their culturethat we would maybe would not
know or understand, or theirculture that we would maybe
would not know or understand, oruh, and that was really rich,
that was a really rich time forus.
Um, is there's?
There's so many things where,across the world, we want the
same things.
Right, and I think that's theother thing that I learned very
(14:55):
clearly from from doing this isthere are many things that we
all just they're the same thatwe want.
We all want respect and dignityand time off and flexibility
and the ability to be with ourfriends and family and be able
to work in our strengths andlike that stuff is true no
matter where you are in theworld.
And then there's also thesereally unique things that I
(15:18):
think are really important tocelebrate the uniqueness of the
different cultures, and so I'dsay it's kind of like both of
those things, like appreciateall of the similarities that we
have and then celebrate theplaces that were different, and
if you can do both of thosethings, you'll have an awesome,
awesome culture, no matter whereyour people are.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
Yeah, and then just with all the different places
that you operated in, you hadteam members in, it sounded like
it was an intentional choice ofgood talent can be anywhere,
versus say like, okay, we'regoing to be US-based and
Venezuelan-based and all of ournon-US people will be in
(15:57):
Venezuela.
Can you share a little bit oflike how that thinking kind of
came to be and did you, did youdebate that at all internally?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
That's a that's a great, really interesting
question.
I don't I don't know that weever even really talked about it
in that way.
So some of our core or corevalues right as a company we
called them vital behaviors butsome of these really core belief
system kinds of things that weorganized around, one of our
(16:30):
very first ones was to startwith energy, and what we mean by
that is that we start theconversation, the way that we
start our dialogue with peopleis to start with what brings
them life and energy, and sowhen you start with that frame,
it just doesn't even really comeup where they live.
(16:50):
It just doesn't.
It's kind of irrelevant.
It's almost like a degree orsomething like I don't really
care if you have a degree, Idon't really care where you live
.
Can you do the job and like,will you be energized by the
work you need to do and do youalign with our values?
Then it's great.
But yeah, it's really it'sfunny because we never I don't
(17:14):
think we ever even had aconversation in that frame of
like, where should we hirepeople from?
It just didn't matter.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Can you think back to the first time you hired
outside of the U?
S and like just the mechanicsof it?
You know, like how did you like?
Did you go to Upwork oragencies?
You know how did you guys evenstart?
And I'm sure there's, you know,uh, business owners, startup
founders that are listening andthey're like this know, business
owners, startup founders thatare listening and they're like
this sounds interesting, likewhat's the first step, what's
(17:44):
step two, what's step three?
Speaker 2 (17:46):
Yeah, yeah, so initially and I don't remember
how we got connected to thesefolks, brian, but somehow we got
connected to a group calledVirtual Latinos and that was our
go-to for a while and they didus real well right, they found
us some really amazing folks and, yes, but we always went
(18:07):
through an agency like that.
So there was a couple projectshere and there that we've done
over the years through like anUpwork where we contract
directly with the person.
But, yeah, more so I would saythe people that we hired were
always through an agency, likelike a virtual, as he knows, and
for us it was a greatexperience.
(18:28):
I think they every everybody'sinterests are kind of aligned
right, because the agency wantsto do a good job, right.
They want to put a great personwho fits what you need into
your company, which, of course,what we want as company
operators, and so everybody'sinterests are aligned there and,
yeah, I just I thought it was agreat system that worked really
(18:50):
well.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah, did you.
Were these like virtualassistant type roles, do you
remember, or like Not?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
not always.
No, like we, we did a lot ofdifferent things.
So we did everything from, uh,like, a video production person
in Mexico to project managers,to customer success people,
cause you know, this was mostlywith the tech company, right?
So we had a lot of kind ofdifferent roles that we needed
to fit, fill in there.
(19:18):
Um, trying to think the otherones that we had, a lot of kind
of different roles that weneeded to fill in there, trying
to think the other ones that wehad.
But, yeah, it was a pretty widegamut of a bunch of different
kinds of roles, and then wewould.
What we would try our best to dowhich is what we would do with
everyone who worked in ourcompany is try to evolve them
over time into roles that theyfelt really energized by.
(19:42):
So again, that was ourphilosophy, but, yeah, and that
really worked well, I think, fora lot of the folks that worked
with us, because over time youget to do more things that
energize you and hopefully, lessof the things that don't, and
then maybe we can go and hiresomebody else who actually
enjoys doing the things thatnobody else wants to do and that
so that was always a part ofour philosophy is just because
(20:04):
nobody here is energized by thatthing doesn't mean that there's
nobody anywhere.
That is right.
We just need to go find thatperson who's energized by that
thing and recruit them.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah and the mechanics of it.
Now, did you, um, did you putthese people outside of the US
on your payroll or was it on theagency's payroll and you would
get like an invoice?
And I'm asking you know forother listeners.
That was really simple, youknow.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
So, yeah, from a company operator perspective,
that's a pretty, that's a prettyeasy transaction, and so I, you
know, I imagine that's at leastone of the reasons why they're
doing it that way, and then alsoit kind of like shields us a
(20:51):
little bit too from having tounderstand all of the
complexities of doing businessin all of these different
countries.
Right, that's.
The other obvious benefitprobably is I don't want to have
to like learn about how to youknow set up registered entities
in you know ecuador, if I don'thave to right like that.
So, but yeah, I alwaysappreciate the agencies for that
(21:15):
too yeah sure.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Would you say there was any work that you would be
uncomfortable moving offshore ornearshore, or was everything on
the table in your company?
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Oh, let's see, I'd say almost everything was on the
table, right, we kept a lot ofthe strategic leadership team
roles here, not not because wedidn't believe we couldn't find
them elsewhere, but just becausethis is where the founders were
, you know.
So, and we had a pretty clearvision for what we were trying
(21:51):
to create and what we weretrying to do, and and yeah, so
we never got to that point wherewe were recruiting, you know,
another person for theleadership team or the strategic
team or right Like at thatlevel we never recruited for,
and so it would.
That would have been aninteresting exercise to see how
we would have done that.
But yeah, it was, it was.
(22:12):
It was I was pleased witheverybody we hired.
I mean, yeah, it was a reallygood experience overall.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, so today, in your role as CEO of Work
Revolution, you're doing a lotof writing, a lot of speaking
and, from my understanding,you're working with executive
assistants, virtual assistants,to give you leverage.
Can you tell us more about thatand what countries you're
working with?
Speaker 2 (22:41):
yeah, right now I do have one.
I call her my chief of staffand so still part time, right,
we're we're building.
Right, this is this is buildingphase of new business.
So, yeah, entrepreneurs outthere, you know this phase.
Right, you're wearing a lot ofhats and working a lot of hours.
But, yeah, I'm really happy tohave a little bit of help from a
(23:03):
new colleague in Ecuador and so, yeah, she's been great and
it's still very new and so we'restill kind of learning how to
work together.
She's learning about all myidiosyncrasies and all of that.
But, yeah, it's been just ahuge help already in helping me
on social media and doing reachouts and building the database.
(23:26):
Yeah, so it's kind of acombination of some I wouldn't
say too much admin stuff.
Like there's right now she'sdoing a lot of social stuff and
a lot of kind of sales, reachout kind of stuff to help us
build the pipeline of peoplethat we will hopefully get to
partner and work with down theroad, but are using, like Asana
(23:47):
and Slack and you know, tocommunicate work and outcomes
and feedback, and Google MeetLike what kind of tools are you
using?
Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, I've beena Zoom guy forever and I've been
(24:11):
a Slack guy forever also.
So those are still my two mainplatforms, those are still my
two two main platforms.
And then, other than that, weuse a lot of Google Docs to kind
of go back and forth and createdatabases and spreadsheets, you
know, for people we're reachingout to.
And yeah, so those are.
Those are probably my, my keycollaborative tools.
(24:32):
Yeah, g Suite, slack, zoom, Ithink.
I think that's.
That's the majority.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
And any issues with English fluency communicating
with your chief of staff inEcuador.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
No, not this.
No, she's incredible.
Might be more fluent than me, Idon't know.
It's pretty incredible.
In the past we had some of thatchallenge with some people,
challenge with some people Neveranything that was like a deal
(25:05):
breaker, but yeah, sometimes itwas a little bit challenging.
But I think you can if you justmake that part of your hiring
process right.
So cause, not every role needsto be like super crazy fluent,
right, like some roles, right,they're working more in the
background, or they're workingon data, or they're working on
projects and they're not supercustomer facing and it's you
know, and they kill it and it'sfine, you know, if.
(25:26):
If they're not a hundredpercent, you know English fluent
, so I think it just depends onthe job.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah, shifting gears a little bit to what you're
doing.
Now you know you're a prolificwriter, prolific speaker.
There's a lot of content tobring together.
Tell us about how you're usingAI for that.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, so what I'm experimenting with currently is
so right now I'm a chat GPT userand a subscriber, so I pay for
their pro plan or whatever it'scalled, or the plus plan, I
don't know, and the one that'snot super, there's a super
expensive one.
Now too.
I don't do that one, but likethe middle one, and what I'm
(26:06):
experiencing with now is istrying to kind of like feed it
all of my writing, because I'vegot I've been blogging.
I've been blogging for 20.
I think it's been 20 years.
I think I posted my first blogin January of 2005.
So I think it's actually been 20years since I started blogging,
which is insane to me and I soI want to like feed GPT all of
(26:30):
my writing.
So I just thought the other dayI was like this would be like
it should know what I think andhow I write, and like I've got
this huge resource of all ofthis stuff that I've written
over the years and how coolwould it be for it to be able to
like ask this thing questionsabout myself.
And so this is my currentcurrent project, like side
(26:52):
project, and uh, so far I've notgone back that far.
Right, I just went to like Idon't know middle of last year
or something, and fed it all ofmy articles.
But it's amazing just how I candialogue with it now at a
really high level because itunderstands some of my verbiage
and my perspective and framingand it's really impressive.
(27:18):
That's what I'm playing withnow and I think it's gonna cut
my book writing time and much,much, uh.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Smaller than it'd be, much shorter than, I think, the
last book that I wrote yeah, aswe start to uh wind down the
show, josh, um, you know, asyou've been exposed to a lot of
different countries around theworld, where's the next place
that you love to travel to thatyou haven't been to yet?
Oh goodness.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
For forever.
My answer to this was Thailand,and I actually got to go there
last year, and so that wasfabulous.
Let's see.
Yeah, what's next?
Maybe I feel like there's someplaces in Europe that I would
like to visit that I haven'tbeen, so some of the Nordic
(28:05):
countries I would like to visit.
I've got some heritage there,so that might be up on my list.
Then also, I don't know, I hearCroatia's beautiful, I'd love
to.
So there's some places inEurope I think I need to hear.
Croatia is beautiful, I'd loveto.
So there's some places inEurope I think I need to get to
next, probably.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, great stuff.
Where can listeners find you?
Where would you like them tolook you up?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah, please do come connect with me.
I'm super easy to find, as longas you can remember how to
spell my name.
Look me up on LinkedIn, so JoshAllen Dykstra, and then also at
joshallencom.
So that's the other other place.
Just remember, allen has twoA's and two L's A-L-L-A-N.
Joshallencom and yeah, thoseare probably the best places.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Stuff.
Well, you're listening to theNear Short Cafe podcast
sponsored by Plug TechnologiesP-L-U-G-G dot tech.
Great way to connect talentfrom all over Latin America,
just like Josh shared with hischief of staff virtual
assistants, video production allsorts of great stuff.
Thanks so much for listeningeverybody.
We'll see you next time.
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