February 25, 2025 • 32 mins
How did Matt Steinberg, a seasoned technical recruiter, find himself at the forefront of a nearshoring revolution in Latin America? Join us as he recounts his unexpected journey into recruiting, which began in Argentina in 2005 when the concept of nearshoring was just gaining traction. Matt shares invaluable insights about the pivotal role communication skills played in his career and reveals his secret to achieving fluency in English through sheer determination and self-study.
Unravel the fascinating impact of Argentina's evolving political landscape on its economy with the rise of Melei, an economist-turned-politician who has shaken up the nation's status quo. From the complexities of Argentina's financial system, including its multiple exchange rates for the U.S. dollar, to shifting economic incentives for Argentine workers, our conversation sheds light on how these factors have opened new doors for outsourcing and nearshoring. You'll hear how Argentine professionals balance local and international opportunities to maintain financial stability amidst ongoing inflation challenges.
Explore Argentina's resourceful business culture, where entrepreneurs quickly replicate successful models despite the uncertainties of hyperinflation. Matt brings attention to the innovative spirit that makes Argentine talent so attractive to U.S. tech startups. We delve into the importance of understanding local market dynamics and the proficiency of Argentine professionals in English, all while expressing cautious optimism about Argentina's economic future with potential external investments and evolving political leadership.
Tune in to gain a comprehensive understanding of the dynamic landscape of recruiting and IT in Latin America.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
We'll see you next time.
(00:29):
Hi and welcome to anotherepisode of the Nearshore Cafe
podcast.
I'm Brian Sampson, your host.
If you have been following theyear plus of Malay in Argentina,
this is going to be a reallyinteresting podcast for you.
(00:51):
We're going to go deep into theeconomy what it means for job
seekers, companies, all sorts ofstuff.
Before I introduce our guest,let me thank our sponsor, plug
Technologies.
Pluggtech great way to connecttalent from all over Latin
America to growing US companies.
Without further ado, let meintroduce our guest, matt
(01:14):
Steinberg, a senior technicalrecruiter, lead recruiter out of
Latin America.
Great to have you, matt.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Great to be here.
Thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Matt, we'll ease into the economy questions.
For those that have never met.
You just give a little senselike how did you get into what
you're doing and how long haveyou been working with people in
the year?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
2005,.
There was no nearshoring, nooutsourcing really for
recruiting.
I actually was lucky enough tocome across a person from the
United States who was a personhere in Argentina trying to
initiate a company calledAverture of all things which is
(01:59):
a kind of a famous ATA nowadays,but back then was kind of in a
beta testing phase famous ATAsnowadays, but back then was a
channel for it in a beta testingphase.
So we started talking.
He was putting together a groupof recruiters and sources to
support the United States fromBuenos Aires.
I thought that was actuallycool.
I was studying, I was finishingoff my degree in psychology.
I thought this is kind ofrelated, I would be lucky to to
(02:22):
be there.
So we started talking and inthe end I was lucky enough to
get the job and he was very goodat training people because no
one actually knew whatrecruiting was about.
It was kind of the first thingin Argentina recruiting related.
So he would just get us alltogether in a conference room,
have us call co-candidates andpeople from different job boards
(02:44):
like Monster, careerbuilder andall those others, and so we
actually learned the trade fromhim.
He was the old school with theRolodex kind of recruiter
calling people from you knowcalling Carter stuff.
So from there on it was just allrecruiting.
I started doing work as arecruiter within RPO.
Then you know, nearshore startedtaking form and taking shape in
(03:06):
Argentina.
So I was lucky again to beassociated and acquainted with
people that were actuallyinterested in investing a
certain fair deal of money inexpanding the RPO and
Nearshoring business inArgentina.
So ever since it's been like 20years of supporting the United
(03:26):
States, canada, europeancountries.
You know EMEA as a region APAC,so I was very lucky throughout
my career to be exposed to thosecountries and those cultures.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
It's really given you a nice global perspective.
I think maybe the elephant inthe room with a lot of US
companies is will I be able tocommunicate with them?
Will I be able to understandthem?
Will they understand me?
Can you share just more aboutyour personal journey with
(04:00):
English and how you got to thefluency level that you have?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Well, that's a very interesting question.
I don't know how to answer that, honestly, because I never
actually studied English.
I mean, I had English at schoolbut it wasn't really enough to
get by.
It was just grammar, the basicstuff.
But there was one day that Iactually needed a job, when I
was 18, or something like that.
When I approached a call centerthat was, you know, starting
(04:26):
business in argentina, and Iwent through the interview
without speaking a word ofenglish, just said right, yes
and no, in all the right orders,I guess, and actually got the
job.
So from there it was justpracticing.
I think every argentina andevery guy in latin america who
provides himself or herself ofactually supporting a business
globally or for the UnitedStates specifically, has done it
(04:49):
at some point in their careers.
Just, you stand in front of themirror, you repeat the words or
you record yourself or you singin English or you watch the
telly without actually using thesubtitles, and that gives you a
proper understanding of howpeople talk and then you repeat
it.
It's just repetition.
The more you repeat yourself,the better you get at it.
(05:10):
And of course, talent does playa huge part of it.
Some people are more giftedthan others.
I'm not one of them.
I actually had friends from theuk and I think I caught the
accent.
I just picked up the accent atsome point.
Now I can't get rid of it.
It's more like a speechimpediment than an accent really
, and most people who are reallygifted do have that ability of
repeating themselves, gettingreally best at it and
(05:32):
accelerating the learning curveso they really get fluent at it.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Matt, share, if you don't mind, some of the types of
companies and industries you'vehad a chance to work with from
a near-short perspective.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Wow, yeah, I started out my career with IT right
within IT technology,information and technology.
That was all I mean.
When I started, it was allabout the cloud.
You know it was 2005, 2010.
Those first five years was allabout the cloud migrations,
implementations, you name it.
So I supported managed hostingcompanies, web hosting solutions
(06:08):
companies, managed cloudservices, storage companies.
So it was all like I mentioneddata, NetApp, microsoft.
Actually I supported them for afew years.
I worked with Lenovo.
I worked with another companyin the United States that
actually manufactured storagedevices, intel.
(06:31):
You know semiconductors,companies that were trying to
create servers.
You know more advanced at thatpoint.
And then you know there arealways trends and stuff that are
changing and they transitionfrom one point to the next.
In a cloud became advancedcomputing services which became
professional services, and thenfrom there on, you had to line
(06:54):
up their paths across, you know,front of you, hardware or
software.
You know it could be everythingas a service, could be internet
as a service platform, as aservice platform, as a service,
networking security.
So I've supported companies innetworking like Arista Networks,
juniper Networks, palo AltoNetworks.
I work with Barracuda Networks.
(07:14):
I also work with companies onthe software, everything as a
service side, like Lenovo had aprofessional services
implementation a few years backand I was lucky enough to be
involved in that, so I supportmany companies in IT.
And then, of course, financialservices associated with IT,
like Bloomberg and all otherfinancial analysis companies
(07:37):
that provide analytics into thefinancial markets, so they
always look for financialanalysts and financial people,
quantitative analysts, softwareengineers so it's been a long
list of roles for a long list ofcompanies for the last 20 years
.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Do you have any tips for those in Argentina that are
maybe starting their recruitingcareer and any tips for them on
how to say, best connect with ITpeople in the US?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yes, brian, I think it's all about reading.
People don't pay enoughattention to this, but it's all
about catching up with the newertrends.
But it's more about readingthan anything else.
You know, there's always alingo and there's always a
certain amount, a fair amount,of technical words you don't
know, never heard of.
(08:26):
You might see them on the jobdescription.
If you don't really understandthem, if you don't really, you
know, if you're not really ableto know the depths of it, when
you speak to someone from IT,unless you are an incredibly
fast typist, you might have abit of an obstacle in front of
you.
So the best way to come acrossthat obstacle is by really
(08:48):
learning everything you canabout IT.
I, at some point in my career,became a bit of a developer.
I had to learn about it.
I was passionate about it, but,moreover, I had to learn it.
I was speaking to at least 25Java developers per day and I
didn't know the first thingabout Java.
So I said I can't.
And I mean this is my career, Ican't let this be.
So I had to learn.
(09:09):
I took a course, I became a bitof an amateur developer and
from there on it was justreading, reading about Ruby on
Rails.
Reading about C Sharp.
What is Golang?
How's that translate to dataanalysis?
Why Python, when you're lookingfor a data engineer?
So the best advice you can giveto a person getting started in
IT, recruiting or sourcing islearn as much as you know about
(09:32):
technology.
Don't let it be just a sidething for you.
Get deep into it.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I think that's a great advice.
You know, matt, I was curiousbecause the tech industry in the
US brings people together fromall over the world.
You know, so I'm maybe this iskind of a silly question, but
did the, did most of theengineers in that you you would
(10:00):
have phone screens with, didthey have any idea that you were
in Latin America?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Well, you know, that's a very interesting
question too, brian, and I don'tthink it's a silly question at
all.
When you start, you don't wantthem to learn what you are.
You don't want them to knowbecause you feel you'd be
mischarged from being LatinAmerica.
There's this misconceptionabout Latin America that we all
Latin Americans have, which istrying to hide it away, and
(10:26):
that's mainly the reason whymost people try to work on their
accents and try to sound moreeither American or
English-speaking English,because you just don't want to
be recognized as part of anotherworld, so to speak.
But the truth is, in time, yourealize that it doesn't matter.
Most engineers are really notfrom the united states
originally and you actually willrecognize that you end up
(10:50):
speaking better than most peopledo because you're more
articulate, because the jobrequires you to be, because you
really learn to listen, which isthe most important part in
communication.
So it really doesn't matter.
You do tell them.
In fact, you're proud of beingable to say I'm calling from
buenos aires, how's that for aglobalization or globalized work
(11:11):
, right?
And you tell them, and theylike it too.
It's a good icebreaker, it's agood way into a conversation, a
good segue into having a properpersonal report developed right
away that that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
That's really interesting.
Let's jump into the economy,matt.
So we're about a year or sointo Malay.
Maybe let's just kind of startbig picture and then we'll get
into a lot of the pieces of it.
What has that meant, I guess,for Argentinians?
(11:45):
You know, like this last year,how have their lives changed.
You know what has that meantfor them.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Well, I'll try to answer that question, brian,
without getting too polarized,because that's one thing, before
we get started with that answer, that people need to understand
about Argentina.
The politics in Argentina gotincredibly polarized over the
last 20 years.
There's always been a sort of atwo-party political world in
Argentina, like peronistasversus radicales, right.
So it's just left-wing orright-winged, or more to the
(12:20):
left than to the center or tothe right.
There's always been like apolarized thing, but over the
last 20 years it really hasbecome a one side or the other
kind of a thing.
So when Millet got to power,actually won the election, it
wasn't only a shock to people,it was an incredible feat.
And I'll tell you why Millet.
(12:40):
For most people who don't knowwho that person was, he's an
economist.
He's a proper economist,someone who really studied
economy in depth, right.
So when he became a politician,he was just coming out of the
telly.
He was a panelist who wouldcome up on the telly and
(13:04):
criticize in a very mad mentalway everyone who was in politics
at that time.
He'll speak of the president orthe governor, or the deputies
or the senators.
He was criticizing the economyin an enormous fashion.
So when he became an activecandidate and, furthermore, he
actually won the election.
It was unthinkable,unfathomable If you look back
(13:25):
four years and the guy was onthe telly, he was yelling like a
maniac and now the guy is thepresident, but he was welcome.
He was welcomed by many people.
I would include myself in that,because the wave of politicians
that we have the last 20 yearswas more of the same.
The economy had to sufferbecause of it.
So when this guy gets to power,it represents a change of the
(13:48):
mentality of people who decidedto vote for something different
for once.
So this guy has done not enoughyet, because he hadn't really
had much time to do many thingsand, let's face it, he actually
took an economy that wasshredded to pieces, was
crumbling down, it was allshredded down and the guy is
trying to pick up the piece andshape it up into something more
(14:10):
productive.
But with that it becamesomething that maybe most
viewers or listeners have heardof, which is the planchassel
which affected the economy.
Incredibly, for all those whodon't know, in Argentina we had
four different values to theAmerican USD American dollars
(14:31):
currency.
There was a legal one.
No one had access to it becausethere's something called CIPO,
which is kind of a blockage thatthe government put so people
can get dollars and get it outof the country.
So you couldn't buy anything atthat real price.
That generated a second price.
There was always a parallelmarket in Argentina for dollars.
(14:53):
It used to be black dollar, butthey had a very awful
connotation so they changed itto blue because they had a
better term to read to it.
So blue dollar.
The value of the currency wasmuch higher than the real price
of the American currency.
That generated a huge amount ofopportunities for nearshoring,
(15:16):
for outsourcing, and I was notjust me.
Everyone who was working forthe United States earning in
American dollars was benefitedby it.
Right, as you all know, whenyou get paid in the American
currency, it generates a certainstability in the amount of
money you get because ofsomething called inflation and
the valuation along with it.
(15:37):
So when people started gettingtheir wages in American dollars,
they could start getting aprojection of how much they
would earn.
And if the change of the price,of the value of the currency,
affected you when you wereearning in pesos, that wouldn't
happen to you if you wereearning in dollars.
So you can have a projection,you can have savings.
So most people started gettingtheir jobs and starting
(16:01):
outsourcing services, sellingservices to the United States,
to Canada, to Europe, toAustralia.
If you were lucky enough to getthat job, you would get
incredible experience workingwith a different culture but,
more importantly, a stableeconomy.
Since this guy related to power,things have started to change.
(16:22):
They fixed the value of dollarto 1,000 pesos per dollar and
the parallel market got stagnantat $1,200.
What that means is that ifyou're earning an hourly rate in
American dollars, you'll alwaysget the same amount as opposed
(16:42):
to when the inflation anddevaluation affected your wages.
So now the projection you haveis still the same.
It's still stabilized.
So now the projection you haveis still the same.
You're still stable, stabilized.
But if you work for the RITmarkets, companies start to get
wise and they start adjustingyour salary every couple of
months, because inflation isactually a legal thing they have
(17:02):
to go through and is the onlyway they have to retain
employees and reduce theirturnover.
So nowadays it is incrediblehow more beneficial it turned
out to be, or turns out to be,to work for the local markets,
because you have a growth inyour salary every two or three
(17:24):
months, whereas that doesn'thappen when you're lending
services to the United Statesanymore because of the branch
other.
That's something that happenedover the last year and a half
that is affecting all of us youknow working for the United
States To me that seems likeit's like flipped the economy
upside down because there was somuch incentive to export
(17:46):
services.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Now there's this.
You know you're almostpenalized for it, right?
Because you're not goingthrough the adjustments.
Matt, from your perspective,you know what percentage of I
mean you've worked in the ITindustry.
I'm sure, like your peer group,is probably a little bit
different, but from you know,your best guess are 10% of the
(18:12):
population in Argentina.
You know the working population.
Are they outsourcing, exportingtheir services?
20%, 50%?
You know, like what does thiskind of mean overall?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Well, what I can tell you is a huge percent I think
we'll be closer to 20% exporting, because it still means that
you'll get American dollars.
No one believes the economywill sustain and will hold, and
this is something that comeswith the history of the country
and the economy.
People don't believe in pesos,which is, of course, a reason
why the valuation occurs.
(18:46):
People don't believe in thecurrency because they've seen it
happen many a time before, manytimes before.
So what people do is they stilloutsource their services.
They still lend services to theUnited States because they
believe that earning dollars andkeeping that money in your
pocket or virtual wallet, if youprefer that helps you project,
(19:07):
have a projection.
You'll be safe in whateverhappens in your country.
So, despite the fact that it ismore convenient nowadays for
this period of time to work forthe local market, because you do
get these adjustments, peoplestill have this mindset towards
outsourcing, because that's whatwe do.
We don't believe in the RGeconomy.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
You know, one thing I'm curious curious about matt
is um the rise of bricks and andan alternative reserve currency
.
Has that impacted um anyone inargentina?
Like how?
How are you and your friendsthinking about that?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
well, it's always been difficult to buy yourself a
house in argentina because theprice is despite the fact that
by comparison they're not reallysuper high they're still kind
of unaffordable.
It's just beyond reach, beyondthe grasp of normal people.
So working people cannotproject because they can't even
earn a salary that will allowthe bank to trust them with a
loan.
Right, there's no such thing asa loan unless you prove
(20:05):
yourself earning a certainamount of money, which is, let
let's face it, less than 5% ofthe population.
Who could do that?
And that has always been thecase, right, it's not something
that's just new.
But what has been happeningover the last few years is the
price of brick has beenescalating, skyrocketing
actually, and people that wouldsave in bricks because that was
(20:28):
the most stable currency youwould just save by building
yourself a house or building aflat or buying yourself a
property.
The price of property has gonedown, whereas the price of
bricks has gone up.
What that means is, even if youbuy, you'll be spending more
money than you can ever get backif you sold the place
(20:49):
afterwards.
So that has created a way ofthinking which is kind of what
I'll tell you about it, if youdon't mind, it's kind of
interesting, funny.
Actually, there's always been amodel of work, of business that
works in argentina.
It's not something you canstudy, it's not something that
financial analysts will tell you.
There's something that justhappens.
We call it the flash businessmodel.
(21:10):
It happened back the 90s withtennis and paddle courts.
It happened with something wecall the parry portion, which is
kind of a grill where peoplebuy chicken.
And then it started happeningwith cyber coffee places where
you would go and use a computerbecause you didn't have internet
at home.
And then from there on it kepton changing.
And every time it changes whensomething actually hits, when
(21:33):
there's one businessman orbusinesswoman that does it and
actually hits, hits it and justhits it big, everyone starts
copying that.
Now you can't save in bricks,you can't set in property, so
what people do is they juststart initiating businesses even
though there's not realprojection, they're not real
figures that will tell you, evenif you crush the numbers again
and again and again, no, nothingtells you.
(21:54):
You're going to succeed at it.
But people do it all the samebecause they saw someone else do
it and they saw someone elsehit it big.
It's just like going intocasino.
You just see a guy playingslots and you know it hits big
and it's just, it's just paid up, it's just paid.
You're not going to get the theagain.
Chances are you're never goingto get it again, but go and play
it again.
It's the same thing.
I think it's the samephenomenon.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
You know, I mean in the States we often think about
diversifying our investments.
I almost feel like it'sdiversifying your currency in
Argentina, you know, whetherit's bricks, pesos, dollars,
crypto.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Exactly.
It's a very good analysisactually.
Yeah, exactly like that.
Now there's something calledplazo fijo, which is you put the
money in your bank and you haveto keep it there for a certain
period of time and it pays anincredible margin because of the
instability of the currencyBecause it's so unstable, it's
so difficult that you canactually know what's going to
happen that the risks outweighthe benefits.
(22:52):
So they have to pay anincredible interest and the
interest rate is going over thetop man is about I can't exactly
tell you, but I think it'sabout 45 or 50 percent interest
in a short period of time.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Matt, for those in the States you know we've
experienced, in our opinion,high inflation the last couple
of years, as the price of eggshas doubled.
But give some perspective.
What does it feel like to livein a hyperinflation country for
the last 10, 20 years?
What does that feel like?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I can tell you a story.
I went to this shop because Ineeded to buy a replacement for
one of my sawing.
I had a saw.
I wanted to saw something.
I had to get a replacementbecause it was all broken and
rusty.
So I went to this place and asI get in, there's a line and I
see the price on the wall.
(23:47):
The price on the wall was, Idon't know, $50.
Equivalent equivalent in pesos.
Right, it was actually, uh, inpesos.
I can't remember the figure,but it was.
It was not really crazy, but itwasn't cheap either.
So I wait in line and it'staking time.
It's taking 20 minutes, 25minutes, 30 minutes.
And I ask the guy what's goingon?
We don't have a price list yetbecause this keeps on changing.
(24:09):
So people are waiting in lineto get their service because no
one knows how much things aregoing to cost.
So by the time I get to thefront and I'm asking for the
replacement, it was already $80.
$80.
In 30, 40 minutes that's how itfeels like.
There are moments where thathappens.
There are moments where youknow the whole thing becomes a
bit more stagnant and you don'treally feel it that way.
(24:30):
There were times where youcouldn't get anything that
wasn't really here because youcouldn't get imports in.
So living in a country withthis kind of inflation tells you
that you won't be able to knowhow much you'll be spending next
month in groceries, in servicesand expenses.
So there's really like aday-to-day kind of a mindset,
which is why Argentinians are sogood at resolving stuff,
(24:53):
because we resolve things everyday, and I think that goes for
every person in Latin America,whether they have inflation or
they have an unstable currencyor a job market that's
fluctuating.
We all become problem solversand that's why, I believe you
know, most american companieslook in latin america because
(25:14):
we're great at resolving stuff,we're trustworthy, hard working,
most of us are really devotedto what we do and passionate
about it too, I might add, andreally good, really could have
solved problems.
Whatever the problem is, we'llfind a way.
We have a word in Argentinian,which is which is tied up in
wire, because when you can't getthe replacement part, just tie
(25:36):
it up two wires together andmake it work somehow, and that
we do right.
I do that every day, for thatmatter.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
It's a very interesting thing.
That's great.
That's great.
Thanks for explaining matter.
It's a very interesting thing,that's great.
That's great.
Thanks for explaining that.
Maybe let's flip this to theemployer side.
So you know, think you're a CEOof a tech startup in the States
.
You're watching podcasts likethis.
You want to set up operationsin Argentina, get the right
(26:04):
talent.
What are some things that theyshould be doing, you know, maybe
currency or otherwise to besuccessful there?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Well, that's an excellent question.
The problem with the economy,as you well know we were talking
about it moments ago is thatyou can't really know what's
going to be headed next.
So if you are a business ownertrying to start a new short-term
business, or even starting abusiness in Argentina, one thing
(26:34):
to bear in mind is that peoplewill want to receive everything
in written.
People will want to have when Imean everything in written,
it's the adjustments, anychanges to their salary.
So everything has to be backedup.
It has to be a backup for eachcontingency right, because you
(26:54):
never know what's going tohappen.
People develop this sort ofradar for upcoming problems.
So when talking to a newemployer, people want to know
the terms of the employment, howthings are going to be changing
over time.
What if this happened?
So you have to have contingencyparagraphs in your contract to
(27:14):
anticipate each of theseproblems.
In terms of talent.
Well, english is a huge part ofit.
So Argentina hasn't got thatproblem.
People in Argentina speakrather well.
So Argentina hasn't got thatproblem.
People in Argentina speakrather well and they don't
really have this struggle wherethey have to go and learn and
then come back to the markets,but they're ready to go and play
right, so that won't be aproblem.
(27:36):
As for talent, argentina hasn'treceived many investments in IT
like Brazil has.
So supercomputing-wise, whichis getting started HPC,
high-performance computing thereare certain languages people
don't really get developing orthey haven't been developing in
for years, like you know.
(27:57):
You talk about Databricks, oryou talk about ClickView,
clicksense, replicate formigrating databases, huge chunks
of it.
People haven't been doing itfor long because it hasn't been
here for long enough.
So learn your markets, learnyour trade, learn what really
has been taking place inArgentina.
If you're going to start abusiness here, learn about what
people are doing and what peopleare getting themselves into,
(28:20):
and give them time to get betterat it.
That's what I would say.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Matt, are you bullish on the economy right now?
Do you think the country willbe in a better place in two
years?
It's still hard to say what doyou think.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
It's always hard to say.
I've been here for 41 years andit's always hard to say I'm
positive about it, I'moptimistic about it.
I don't believe that things aregoing to happen magically
overnight.
There has to be a certain listof things to take place for
things to get better.
(28:56):
But I am a believer that,thanks to outside investments
and to the talent of our peopleoutside investments and to the
talent of our people, and I hopethat these new breed of
politicians have an objective inmind which is, you know,
getting rich themselves.
So that is a good combinationof things to be optimistic about
.
So, yes, to answer yourquestion, I am optimistic.
(29:19):
I think things are going to getbetter.
Things will definitely getbetter.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
There's just need time, I think, uh, what I'm most
interested in is, uh, amongmany, many things, is uh, uh,
importing of, you know,different goods from around the
world.
Um, I, I had a beer of a timetrying to get hardware into
argentina and I'm curious um, uh, is anything changing with that
?
Do you do you think that willbe easier to move stuff in and
(29:49):
out?
Speaker 2 (29:49):
We're easing into it.
Yes, there used to be a majordifficulty bringing hardware,
like you put it computers,laptops not so much accessories,
but big stuff like Applecomputers.
Because of what I said before,things that hit it big start
being replicated as businessmodels and people just try to
make money out of it.
So the government got wise andsaid no hold on.
(30:10):
You can't bring 40 Applecomputers.
If you're a business owner,that affects you because you've
got 40 employees that need anApple computer and you need that
to work.
That kind of creates a dent inyour business endeavor, but it
is understandable because peopleabused it for many years.
(30:33):
I don't defend it.
I'd love to have thepossibility of importing stuff
at a lower cost.
Things are very expensive tobring from other countries.
I'll give you an example.
I played piano and I broke akey of a piano because I got big
and heavy hands I'm justkidding.
It just tore off, so I tried toget a replacement.
But no one builds it ormanufactures it in Argentina or
(30:54):
in America, not even NorthAmerica, where you would say,
well, there's more manufacturing.
So I had to go to Europe.
The cost of the item was $8.
The cost of bringing it overfrom Sweden was about $78.
It's because of the inflation,because of people doing this all
(31:14):
the time and because of thecustoms.
You know the taxation is hugebut Millet has come up with a
plan and you know there's not.
Millet know the governmentadministration has come up with
a plan of reducing the cost forat least the first 400 of
imports in products and thehealth.
People bring things in, and notjust enough to to create a
(31:36):
business out of that, but tobring things for personal use.
So that's easing into it.
I think next step would be tobe more considerate about how
many of those things you canactually bring items.
But you know, for the timingit's getting better.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Well, Matt, this has been an incredible conversation.
I can't believe how much I'velearned.
This is fantastic.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Well, this is the Nearshore Cafe podcast sponsored
by Plug Technologies P-L-U-G-Gdot tech, and we'll see you next
time.
Thanks for listening.
We'll see you next time.
(00:29):
Hi and welcome to anotherepisode of the Nearshore Cafe
podcast.
I'm Brian Sampson, your host.
If you have been following theyear plus of Malay in Argentina,
this is going to be a reallyinteresting podcast for you.
(00:51):
We're going to go deep into theeconomy what it means for job
seekers, companies, all sorts ofstuff.
Before I introduce our guest,let me thank our sponsor, plug
Technologies.
Pluggtech great way to connecttalent from all over Latin
America to growing US companies.
Without further ado, let meintroduce our guest, matt
(01:14):
Steinberg, a senior technicalrecruiter, lead recruiter out of
Latin America.
Great to have you, matt.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Great to be here.
Thank you for the invitation.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Matt, we'll ease into the economy questions.
For those that have never met.
You just give a little senselike how did you get into what
you're doing and how long haveyou been working with people in
the year?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
2005,.
There was no nearshoring, nooutsourcing really for
recruiting.
I actually was lucky enough tocome across a person from the
United States who was a personhere in Argentina trying to
initiate a company calledAverture of all things which is
(01:59):
a kind of a famous ATA nowadays,but back then was kind of in a
beta testing phase famous ATAsnowadays, but back then was a
channel for it in a beta testingphase.
So we started talking.
He was putting together a groupof recruiters and sources to
support the United States fromBuenos Aires.
I thought that was actuallycool.
I was studying, I was finishingoff my degree in psychology.
I thought this is kind ofrelated, I would be lucky to to
(02:22):
be there.
So we started talking and inthe end I was lucky enough to
get the job and he was very goodat training people because no
one actually knew whatrecruiting was about.
It was kind of the first thingin Argentina recruiting related.
So he would just get us alltogether in a conference room,
have us call co-candidates andpeople from different job boards
(02:44):
like Monster, careerbuilder andall those others, and so we
actually learned the trade fromhim.
He was the old school with theRolodex kind of recruiter
calling people from you knowcalling Carter stuff.
So from there on it was just allrecruiting.
I started doing work as arecruiter within RPO.
Then you know, nearshore startedtaking form and taking shape in
(03:06):
Argentina.
So I was lucky again to beassociated and acquainted with
people that were actuallyinterested in investing a
certain fair deal of money inexpanding the RPO and
Nearshoring business inArgentina.
So ever since it's been like 20years of supporting the United
(03:26):
States, canada, europeancountries.
You know EMEA as a region APAC,so I was very lucky throughout
my career to be exposed to thosecountries and those cultures.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
It's really given you a nice global perspective.
I think maybe the elephant inthe room with a lot of US
companies is will I be able tocommunicate with them?
Will I be able to understandthem?
Will they understand me?
Can you share just more aboutyour personal journey with
(04:00):
English and how you got to thefluency level that you have?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Well, that's a very interesting question.
I don't know how to answer that, honestly, because I never
actually studied English.
I mean, I had English at schoolbut it wasn't really enough to
get by.
It was just grammar, the basicstuff.
But there was one day that Iactually needed a job, when I
was 18, or something like that.
When I approached a call centerthat was, you know, starting
(04:26):
business in argentina, and Iwent through the interview
without speaking a word ofenglish, just said right, yes
and no, in all the right orders,I guess, and actually got the
job.
So from there it was justpracticing.
I think every argentina andevery guy in latin america who
provides himself or herself ofactually supporting a business
globally or for the UnitedStates specifically, has done it
(04:49):
at some point in their careers.
Just, you stand in front of themirror, you repeat the words or
you record yourself or you singin English or you watch the
telly without actually using thesubtitles, and that gives you a
proper understanding of howpeople talk and then you repeat
it.
It's just repetition.
The more you repeat yourself,the better you get at it.
(05:10):
And of course, talent does playa huge part of it.
Some people are more giftedthan others.
I'm not one of them.
I actually had friends from theuk and I think I caught the
accent.
I just picked up the accent atsome point.
Now I can't get rid of it.
It's more like a speechimpediment than an accent really
, and most people who are reallygifted do have that ability of
repeating themselves, gettingreally best at it and
(05:32):
accelerating the learning curveso they really get fluent at it.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
Matt, share, if you don't mind, some of the types of
companies and industries you'vehad a chance to work with from
a near-short perspective.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Wow, yeah, I started out my career with IT right
within IT technology,information and technology.
That was all I mean.
When I started, it was allabout the cloud.
You know it was 2005, 2010.
Those first five years was allabout the cloud migrations,
implementations, you name it.
So I supported managed hostingcompanies, web hosting solutions
(06:08):
companies, managed cloudservices, storage companies.
So it was all like I mentioneddata, NetApp, microsoft.
Actually I supported them for afew years.
I worked with Lenovo.
I worked with another companyin the United States that
actually manufactured storagedevices, intel.
(06:31):
You know semiconductors,companies that were trying to
create servers.
You know more advanced at thatpoint.
And then you know there arealways trends and stuff that are
changing and they transitionfrom one point to the next.
In a cloud became advancedcomputing services which became
professional services, and thenfrom there on, you had to line
(06:54):
up their paths across, you know,front of you, hardware or
software.
You know it could be everythingas a service, could be internet
as a service platform, as aservice platform, as a service,
networking security.
So I've supported companies innetworking like Arista Networks,
juniper Networks, palo AltoNetworks.
I work with Barracuda Networks.
(07:14):
I also work with companies onthe software, everything as a
service side, like Lenovo had aprofessional services
implementation a few years backand I was lucky enough to be
involved in that, so I supportmany companies in IT.
And then, of course, financialservices associated with IT,
like Bloomberg and all otherfinancial analysis companies
(07:37):
that provide analytics into thefinancial markets, so they
always look for financialanalysts and financial people,
quantitative analysts, softwareengineers so it's been a long
list of roles for a long list ofcompanies for the last 20 years
.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Do you have any tips for those in Argentina that are
maybe starting their recruitingcareer and any tips for them on
how to say, best connect with ITpeople in the US?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yes, brian, I think it's all about reading.
People don't pay enoughattention to this, but it's all
about catching up with the newertrends.
But it's more about readingthan anything else.
You know, there's always alingo and there's always a
certain amount, a fair amount,of technical words you don't
know, never heard of.
(08:26):
You might see them on the jobdescription.
If you don't really understandthem, if you don't really, you
know, if you're not really ableto know the depths of it, when
you speak to someone from IT,unless you are an incredibly
fast typist, you might have abit of an obstacle in front of
you.
So the best way to come acrossthat obstacle is by really
(08:48):
learning everything you canabout IT.
I, at some point in my career,became a bit of a developer.
I had to learn about it.
I was passionate about it, but,moreover, I had to learn it.
I was speaking to at least 25Java developers per day and I
didn't know the first thingabout Java.
So I said I can't.
And I mean this is my career, Ican't let this be.
So I had to learn.
(09:09):
I took a course, I became a bitof an amateur developer and
from there on it was justreading, reading about Ruby on
Rails.
Reading about C Sharp.
What is Golang?
How's that translate to dataanalysis?
Why Python, when you're lookingfor a data engineer?
So the best advice you can giveto a person getting started in
IT, recruiting or sourcing islearn as much as you know about
(09:32):
technology.
Don't let it be just a sidething for you.
Get deep into it.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I think that's a great advice.
You know, matt, I was curiousbecause the tech industry in the
US brings people together fromall over the world.
You know, so I'm maybe this iskind of a silly question, but
did the, did most of theengineers in that you you would
(10:00):
have phone screens with, didthey have any idea that you were
in Latin America?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Well, you know, that's a very interesting
question too, brian, and I don'tthink it's a silly question at
all.
When you start, you don't wantthem to learn what you are.
You don't want them to knowbecause you feel you'd be
mischarged from being LatinAmerica.
There's this misconceptionabout Latin America that we all
Latin Americans have, which istrying to hide it away, and
(10:26):
that's mainly the reason whymost people try to work on their
accents and try to sound moreeither American or
English-speaking English,because you just don't want to
be recognized as part of anotherworld, so to speak.
But the truth is, in time, yourealize that it doesn't matter.
Most engineers are really notfrom the united states
originally and you actually willrecognize that you end up
(10:50):
speaking better than most peopledo because you're more
articulate, because the jobrequires you to be, because you
really learn to listen, which isthe most important part in
communication.
So it really doesn't matter.
You do tell them.
In fact, you're proud of beingable to say I'm calling from
buenos aires, how's that for aglobalization or globalized work
(11:11):
, right?
And you tell them, and theylike it too.
It's a good icebreaker, it's agood way into a conversation, a
good segue into having a properpersonal report developed right
away that that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
That's really interesting.
Let's jump into the economy,matt.
So we're about a year or sointo Malay.
Maybe let's just kind of startbig picture and then we'll get
into a lot of the pieces of it.
What has that meant, I guess,for Argentinians?
(11:45):
You know, like this last year,how have their lives changed.
You know what has that meantfor them.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Well, I'll try to answer that question, brian,
without getting too polarized,because that's one thing, before
we get started with that answer, that people need to understand
about Argentina.
The politics in Argentina gotincredibly polarized over the
last 20 years.
There's always been a sort of atwo-party political world in
Argentina, like peronistasversus radicales, right.
So it's just left-wing orright-winged, or more to the
(12:20):
left than to the center or tothe right.
There's always been like apolarized thing, but over the
last 20 years it really hasbecome a one side or the other
kind of a thing.
So when Millet got to power,actually won the election, it
wasn't only a shock to people,it was an incredible feat.
And I'll tell you why Millet.
(12:40):
For most people who don't knowwho that person was, he's an
economist.
He's a proper economist,someone who really studied
economy in depth, right.
So when he became a politician,he was just coming out of the
telly.
He was a panelist who wouldcome up on the telly and
(13:04):
criticize in a very mad mentalway everyone who was in politics
at that time.
He'll speak of the president orthe governor, or the deputies
or the senators.
He was criticizing the economyin an enormous fashion.
So when he became an activecandidate and, furthermore, he
actually won the election.
It was unthinkable,unfathomable If you look back
(13:25):
four years and the guy was onthe telly, he was yelling like a
maniac and now the guy is thepresident, but he was welcome.
He was welcomed by many people.
I would include myself in that,because the wave of politicians
that we have the last 20 yearswas more of the same.
The economy had to sufferbecause of it.
So when this guy gets to power,it represents a change of the
(13:48):
mentality of people who decidedto vote for something different
for once.
So this guy has done not enoughyet, because he hadn't really
had much time to do many thingsand, let's face it, he actually
took an economy that wasshredded to pieces, was
crumbling down, it was allshredded down and the guy is
trying to pick up the piece andshape it up into something more
(14:10):
productive.
But with that it becamesomething that maybe most
viewers or listeners have heardof, which is the planchassel
which affected the economy.
Incredibly, for all those whodon't know, in Argentina we had
four different values to theAmerican USD American dollars
(14:31):
currency.
There was a legal one.
No one had access to it becausethere's something called CIPO,
which is kind of a blockage thatthe government put so people
can get dollars and get it outof the country.
So you couldn't buy anything atthat real price.
That generated a second price.
There was always a parallelmarket in Argentina for dollars.
(14:53):
It used to be black dollar, butthey had a very awful
connotation so they changed itto blue because they had a
better term to read to it.
So blue dollar.
The value of the currency wasmuch higher than the real price
of the American currency.
That generated a huge amount ofopportunities for nearshoring,
(15:16):
for outsourcing, and I was notjust me.
Everyone who was working forthe United States earning in
American dollars was benefitedby it.
Right, as you all know, whenyou get paid in the American
currency, it generates a certainstability in the amount of
money you get because ofsomething called inflation and
the valuation along with it.
(15:37):
So when people started gettingtheir wages in American dollars,
they could start getting aprojection of how much they
would earn.
And if the change of the price,of the value of the currency,
affected you when you wereearning in pesos, that wouldn't
happen to you if you wereearning in dollars.
So you can have a projection,you can have savings.
So most people started gettingtheir jobs and starting
(16:01):
outsourcing services, sellingservices to the United States,
to Canada, to Europe, toAustralia.
If you were lucky enough to getthat job, you would get
incredible experience workingwith a different culture but,
more importantly, a stableeconomy.
Since this guy related to power,things have started to change.
(16:22):
They fixed the value of dollarto 1,000 pesos per dollar and
the parallel market got stagnantat $1,200.
What that means is that ifyou're earning an hourly rate in
American dollars, you'll alwaysget the same amount as opposed
(16:42):
to when the inflation anddevaluation affected your wages.
So now the projection you haveis still the same.
It's still stabilized.
So now the projection you haveis still the same.
You're still stable, stabilized.
But if you work for the RITmarkets, companies start to get
wise and they start adjustingyour salary every couple of
months, because inflation isactually a legal thing they have
(17:02):
to go through and is the onlyway they have to retain
employees and reduce theirturnover.
So nowadays it is incrediblehow more beneficial it turned
out to be, or turns out to be,to work for the local markets,
because you have a growth inyour salary every two or three
(17:24):
months, whereas that doesn'thappen when you're lending
services to the United Statesanymore because of the branch
other.
That's something that happenedover the last year and a half
that is affecting all of us youknow working for the United
States To me that seems likeit's like flipped the economy
upside down because there was somuch incentive to export
(17:46):
services.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Now there's this.
You know you're almostpenalized for it, right?
Because you're not goingthrough the adjustments.
Matt, from your perspective,you know what percentage of I
mean you've worked in the ITindustry.
I'm sure, like your peer group,is probably a little bit
different, but from you know,your best guess are 10% of the
(18:12):
population in Argentina.
You know the working population.
Are they outsourcing, exportingtheir services?
20%, 50%?
You know, like what does thiskind of mean overall?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Well, what I can tell you is a huge percent I think
we'll be closer to 20% exporting, because it still means that
you'll get American dollars.
No one believes the economywill sustain and will hold, and
this is something that comeswith the history of the country
and the economy.
People don't believe in pesos,which is, of course, a reason
why the valuation occurs.
(18:46):
People don't believe in thecurrency because they've seen it
happen many a time before, manytimes before.
So what people do is they stilloutsource their services.
They still lend services to theUnited States because they
believe that earning dollars andkeeping that money in your
pocket or virtual wallet, if youprefer that helps you project,
(19:07):
have a projection.
You'll be safe in whateverhappens in your country.
So, despite the fact that it ismore convenient nowadays for
this period of time to work forthe local market, because you do
get these adjustments, peoplestill have this mindset towards
outsourcing, because that's whatwe do.
We don't believe in the RGeconomy.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
You know, one thing I'm curious curious about matt
is um the rise of bricks and andan alternative reserve currency
.
Has that impacted um anyone inargentina?
Like how?
How are you and your friendsthinking about that?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
well, it's always been difficult to buy yourself a
house in argentina because theprice is despite the fact that
by comparison they're not reallysuper high they're still kind
of unaffordable.
It's just beyond reach, beyondthe grasp of normal people.
So working people cannotproject because they can't even
earn a salary that will allowthe bank to trust them with a
loan.
Right, there's no such thing asa loan unless you prove
(20:05):
yourself earning a certainamount of money, which is, let
let's face it, less than 5% ofthe population.
Who could do that?
And that has always been thecase, right, it's not something
that's just new.
But what has been happeningover the last few years is the
price of brick has beenescalating, skyrocketing
actually, and people that wouldsave in bricks because that was
(20:28):
the most stable currency youwould just save by building
yourself a house or building aflat or buying yourself a
property.
The price of property has gonedown, whereas the price of
bricks has gone up.
What that means is, even if youbuy, you'll be spending more
money than you can ever get backif you sold the place
(20:49):
afterwards.
So that has created a way ofthinking which is kind of what
I'll tell you about it, if youdon't mind, it's kind of
interesting, funny.
Actually, there's always been amodel of work, of business that
works in argentina.
It's not something you canstudy, it's not something that
financial analysts will tell you.
There's something that justhappens.
We call it the flash businessmodel.
(21:10):
It happened back the 90s withtennis and paddle courts.
It happened with something wecall the parry portion, which is
kind of a grill where peoplebuy chicken.
And then it started happeningwith cyber coffee places where
you would go and use a computerbecause you didn't have internet
at home.
And then from there on it kepton changing.
And every time it changes whensomething actually hits, when
(21:33):
there's one businessman orbusinesswoman that does it and
actually hits, hits it and justhits it big, everyone starts
copying that.
Now you can't save in bricks,you can't set in property, so
what people do is they juststart initiating businesses even
though there's not realprojection, they're not real
figures that will tell you, evenif you crush the numbers again
and again and again, no, nothingtells you.
(21:54):
You're going to succeed at it.
But people do it all the samebecause they saw someone else do
it and they saw someone elsehit it big.
It's just like going intocasino.
You just see a guy playingslots and you know it hits big
and it's just, it's just paid up, it's just paid.
You're not going to get the theagain.
Chances are you're never goingto get it again, but go and play
it again.
It's the same thing.
I think it's the samephenomenon.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
You know, I mean in the States we often think about
diversifying our investments.
I almost feel like it'sdiversifying your currency in
Argentina, you know, whetherit's bricks, pesos, dollars,
crypto.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Exactly.
It's a very good analysisactually.
Yeah, exactly like that.
Now there's something calledplazo fijo, which is you put the
money in your bank and you haveto keep it there for a certain
period of time and it pays anincredible margin because of the
instability of the currencyBecause it's so unstable, it's
so difficult that you canactually know what's going to
happen that the risks outweighthe benefits.
(22:52):
So they have to pay anincredible interest and the
interest rate is going over thetop man is about I can't exactly
tell you, but I think it'sabout 45 or 50 percent interest
in a short period of time.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Matt, for those in the States you know we've
experienced, in our opinion,high inflation the last couple
of years, as the price of eggshas doubled.
But give some perspective.
What does it feel like to livein a hyperinflation country for
the last 10, 20 years?
What does that feel like?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
I can tell you a story.
I went to this shop because Ineeded to buy a replacement for
one of my sawing.
I had a saw.
I wanted to saw something.
I had to get a replacementbecause it was all broken and
rusty.
So I went to this place and asI get in, there's a line and I
see the price on the wall.
(23:47):
The price on the wall was, Idon't know, $50.
Equivalent equivalent in pesos.
Right, it was actually, uh, inpesos.
I can't remember the figure,but it was.
It was not really crazy, but itwasn't cheap either.
So I wait in line and it'staking time.
It's taking 20 minutes, 25minutes, 30 minutes.
And I ask the guy what's goingon?
We don't have a price list yetbecause this keeps on changing.
(24:09):
So people are waiting in lineto get their service because no
one knows how much things aregoing to cost.
So by the time I get to thefront and I'm asking for the
replacement, it was already $80.
$80.
In 30, 40 minutes that's how itfeels like.
There are moments where thathappens.
There are moments where youknow the whole thing becomes a
bit more stagnant and you don'treally feel it that way.
(24:30):
There were times where youcouldn't get anything that
wasn't really here because youcouldn't get imports in.
So living in a country withthis kind of inflation tells you
that you won't be able to knowhow much you'll be spending next
month in groceries, in servicesand expenses.
So there's really like aday-to-day kind of a mindset,
which is why Argentinians are sogood at resolving stuff,
(24:53):
because we resolve things everyday, and I think that goes for
every person in Latin America,whether they have inflation or
they have an unstable currencyor a job market that's
fluctuating.
We all become problem solversand that's why, I believe you
know, most american companieslook in latin america because
(25:14):
we're great at resolving stuff,we're trustworthy, hard working,
most of us are really devotedto what we do and passionate
about it too, I might add, andreally good, really could have
solved problems.
Whatever the problem is, we'llfind a way.
We have a word in Argentinian,which is which is tied up in
wire, because when you can't getthe replacement part, just tie
(25:36):
it up two wires together andmake it work somehow, and that
we do right.
I do that every day, for thatmatter.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
It's a very interesting thing.
That's great.
That's great.
Thanks for explaining matter.
It's a very interesting thing,that's great.
That's great.
Thanks for explaining that.
Maybe let's flip this to theemployer side.
So you know, think you're a CEOof a tech startup in the States
.
You're watching podcasts likethis.
You want to set up operationsin Argentina, get the right
(26:04):
talent.
What are some things that theyshould be doing, you know, maybe
currency or otherwise to besuccessful there?
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Well, that's an excellent question.
The problem with the economy,as you well know we were talking
about it moments ago is thatyou can't really know what's
going to be headed next.
So if you are a business ownertrying to start a new short-term
business, or even starting abusiness in Argentina, one thing
(26:34):
to bear in mind is that peoplewill want to receive everything
in written.
People will want to have when Imean everything in written,
it's the adjustments, anychanges to their salary.
So everything has to be backedup.
It has to be a backup for eachcontingency right, because you
(26:54):
never know what's going tohappen.
People develop this sort ofradar for upcoming problems.
So when talking to a newemployer, people want to know
the terms of the employment, howthings are going to be changing
over time.
What if this happened?
So you have to have contingencyparagraphs in your contract to
(27:14):
anticipate each of theseproblems.
In terms of talent.
Well, english is a huge part ofit.
So Argentina hasn't got thatproblem.
People in Argentina speakrather well.
So Argentina hasn't got thatproblem.
People in Argentina speakrather well and they don't
really have this struggle wherethey have to go and learn and
then come back to the markets,but they're ready to go and play
right, so that won't be aproblem.
(27:36):
As for talent, argentina hasn'treceived many investments in IT
like Brazil has.
So supercomputing-wise, whichis getting started HPC,
high-performance computing thereare certain languages people
don't really get developing orthey haven't been developing in
for years, like you know.
(27:57):
You talk about Databricks, oryou talk about ClickView,
clicksense, replicate formigrating databases, huge chunks
of it.
People haven't been doing itfor long because it hasn't been
here for long enough.
So learn your markets, learnyour trade, learn what really
has been taking place inArgentina.
If you're going to start abusiness here, learn about what
people are doing and what peopleare getting themselves into,
(28:20):
and give them time to get betterat it.
That's what I would say.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Matt, are you bullish on the economy right now?
Do you think the country willbe in a better place in two
years?
It's still hard to say what doyou think.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
It's always hard to say.
I've been here for 41 years andit's always hard to say I'm
positive about it, I'moptimistic about it.
I don't believe that things aregoing to happen magically
overnight.
There has to be a certain listof things to take place for
things to get better.
(28:56):
But I am a believer that,thanks to outside investments
and to the talent of our peopleoutside investments and to the
talent of our people, and I hopethat these new breed of
politicians have an objective inmind which is, you know,
getting rich themselves.
So that is a good combinationof things to be optimistic about
.
So, yes, to answer yourquestion, I am optimistic.
(29:19):
I think things are going to getbetter.
Things will definitely getbetter.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
There's just need time, I think, uh, what I'm most
interested in is, uh, amongmany, many things, is uh, uh,
importing of, you know,different goods from around the
world.
Um, I, I had a beer of a timetrying to get hardware into
argentina and I'm curious um, uh, is anything changing with that
?
Do you do you think that willbe easier to move stuff in and
(29:49):
out?
Speaker 2 (29:49):
We're easing into it.
Yes, there used to be a majordifficulty bringing hardware,
like you put it computers,laptops not so much accessories,
but big stuff like Applecomputers.
Because of what I said before,things that hit it big start
being replicated as businessmodels and people just try to
make money out of it.
So the government got wise andsaid no hold on.
(30:10):
You can't bring 40 Applecomputers.
If you're a business owner,that affects you because you've
got 40 employees that need anApple computer and you need that
to work.
That kind of creates a dent inyour business endeavor, but it
is understandable because peopleabused it for many years.
(30:33):
I don't defend it.
I'd love to have thepossibility of importing stuff
at a lower cost.
Things are very expensive tobring from other countries.
I'll give you an example.
I played piano and I broke akey of a piano because I got big
and heavy hands I'm justkidding.
It just tore off, so I tried toget a replacement.
But no one builds it ormanufactures it in Argentina or
(30:54):
in America, not even NorthAmerica, where you would say,
well, there's more manufacturing.
So I had to go to Europe.
The cost of the item was $8.
The cost of bringing it overfrom Sweden was about $78.
It's because of the inflation,because of people doing this all
(31:14):
the time and because of thecustoms.
You know the taxation is hugebut Millet has come up with a
plan and you know there's not.
Millet know the governmentadministration has come up with
a plan of reducing the cost forat least the first 400 of
imports in products and thehealth.
People bring things in, and notjust enough to to create a
(31:36):
business out of that, but tobring things for personal use.
So that's easing into it.
I think next step would be tobe more considerate about how
many of those things you canactually bring items.
But you know, for the timingit's getting better.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Well, Matt, this has been an incredible conversation.
I can't believe how much I'velearned.
This is fantastic.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Well, this is the Nearshore Cafe podcast sponsored
by Plug Technologies P-L-U-G-Gdot tech, and we'll see you next
time.
Thanks for listening.
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