September 17, 2025 • 47 mins
Dive into a rich, conversational exploration of faith, life, and biblical insights with the TNC Podcast. Join Pastor Joe Liles, Pastor Tom, and Roseann as they unpack the book of Romans, share personal stories, and explore a range of topics, from coffee preferences to profound spiritual truths.
Each podcast offers a blend of humor, personal reflection, and meaningful biblical teaching that brings scripture to life. Whether you're a long-time believer or just curious about faith, this podcast provides engaging conversations that connect real-life experiences with timeless spiritual wisdom.
Grab a cup of coffee and join the conversation as we explore peace, reconciliation, and what it means to live out our faith in today's world.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I don't know. Hey, good. Welcometo the TNC podcast. Guess what?
(00:04):
We've been talking about coffee.
So if you're just joining us,guess what? You get a coffee
conversation to start thispodcast. Roseanne, what were you
going to say about coffee? Youwere just about to jump in. Are
you also like a connoisseur?
Like have the station of coffeeat home and everything else?
No, no, I have a Hamilton Beachsingle cup. Not even a Keurig,
probably one step aboveFolgers. You're one step above
(00:24):
Folger. Oh, every day I wake up,pour myself a cup of the rich
Folgers aroma. The best part ofwaking up, it's the do up. Do
what? Anybody the Folgers themesong? That's Oh, well,
that's not the one that was on,like when I was a kid. I don't
think watching TVWell, I don't remember the one
from the 50s. Whatwas the one like, the best part
(00:46):
of waking up? Yeah, it wasn'tnear as fancy as
what you're no that was theacapella version that rockapel
is saying for them, like out ofthe brain commercial, awesome.
I've seen that for years, so I'min between you two. So like
Keurig on Tom's side, HamiltonBeach, I love it. You said that
(01:06):
on your side, like the 10 cupcoffee pot you're just going
for. I got a bur grinder. I havethe Chemex pour over, but I
don't use that too often, right?
And then we have just a regularcoffee pot, but I burger grind
it in the fellow ODE, which isgreat, right? Awesome, right?
And then I put it into, Iusually make, like, six cups,
right? And I put it into justour regular coffee pot, but then
(01:28):
I sprinkle cinnamon on the top.
I love to sprinkle spices on thetop of my coffee. Oh, like, it's
so good. And then my favoritetype of coffee is Cuban coffee.
Have you ever had Cuban coffee?
Yes, cute. The little shots ofcoffee that are, like, super
high packed of like, espressoand sugar and all that kind of
Yeah, that fits. I don't get itthat option. So it might fit my
(01:49):
personality,but I don't get it that chance
to get Turkish coffee. I loveTurkish coffee. Oh my gosh, that
is so strong.
Love Turkish coffee. Yeah, wehad that when we were in Uganda
on mission. We had Turkishcoffee, and it was delicious.
I love it. I had it in Turkey,and I think it made my hair grow
faster forabout 24 hours. Yeah, that was
great. Yeah, yeah, oh, it justgets you going. Just absolutely
(02:11):
chew it though, you know, Imean, you need dental floss
afterwards.
Yeah, it's beautiful, beautiful.
Now, if you're joining us now,we are talking some coffee
conversation, which I thinkchurch and coffee go together.
They are synonymous, right? Youhave to have great if it's a
good church, there will becoffee. There will be, you know
what? You know, good coffee.
Well, so here, I don't want tomake that distinction, so I was
going to appreciate Tom for notmaking the distinction. I think
church and coffee go together. Idon't necessarily think that
(02:33):
churches have to have greatcoffee, because
what's good varies. Like I had ahumbling moment when we were at
the youth gathering in NewOrleans, and they had a it was a
group from Africa. It was all,all women, yeah, who, I think
they were all widows. And they,they set up their their coffee
company to support themselveslike a little community, because
the way the culture is set upthere not kind to to women other
(02:54):
than being supported by a man,yeah. And so they had this whole
setup of this coffee, and theywere bragging on their coffee,
and they had a blind taste test,where you go through and think
the one that was best. And I waslike, Oh, that's a little too
much going on. That one, man, Ilike this one. And she's like,
you literally just pickedFolgers. It tastes like cup
coffee.
Yeah. It's just like, here'swhere it's at. And
(03:16):
she's like, just, I mean, therewas shame in her eyes. And she
looked at me like, How dare youI will tell people that we drink
fo chairs, and they're like,it's a French coffee. And
they're like, whatyou can probably buy it at
Target.
My brother, who's coffeeconnoisseur. He I mean, he's the
Bougie coffee kind of guy,right? And goes into it. He came
to our church, and he's like,dude, love your coffee. What
(03:37):
coffee do you have here? And Iwas like, dude, straight
Folgers, man. I was like, andthat was in the past. Now we
have fun. You know, we had greatcoffee that we buy. We go to our
local our coffee roasters. Sowe're getting the onyx, we're
getting the heroes. We'regetting the airship. Best coffee
in the country is here, isn'twhy would we not have the best
coffee on Sunday morning whenwe're here? People love coffee
drinking on Sunday morning. So Ithink there's a really important
(04:00):
part about that in the churchenvironment. But I think coffee
is synonymous with church andlike Sunday morning, I don't
necessarily think has to begreat coffee. I think people
kind of just will drink coffeeat church, right? Do you want it
to be great coffee?
Roseanne? I want it to be goodcoffee. I have poured out coffee
from here. Yeah, from here.
You've what can I sip? Yeah,yeah, here in other churches,
wow.
(04:23):
So Miss 10 cup. Hamilton Beach,over here is pouring out one cup
at a time. Okay, how much do youpour? At home, when you make a
coffee pot, it's just one cup.
Oh, it's a one cup. Oh, 10ounces. There you go. Okay, so
what? What is your palate? Areyou like a dark roast? Are you
light roaster? I don't like adark roast. You don't like a
dark roast.
No, I like a medium roast. ButSo Starbucks has the little
(04:47):
Keurig Yeah, cups of fall blend.
That is yummy. That is yummy.
Okay, fall blends in me, and myfavorite coffee is spirit of 76
oh, black rifle coffee cup. Yes,that is so good. Wow, okay. All
right, yeah, so that'sbeautiful.
I love bougie, nothing.
It's great. Yeah, so what weought to do if we're gonna up
(05:10):
our church game? Yeah, we gotthe coffee down pat. We got good
coffee. Yeah, we need, like,homemade cookies after church.
Oh, you know what? We have achef. All right, we can give a
chef Troy and be like, Man, whatif he made some, like, just some
bakery goods for, like, everySunday to have out, right, when
we were there, right? We coulddo it, like, as a fundraiser for
the youth or something likethat. Even he's
not a baker, though, yeah, he'snot a baker. He's a cook, Chef,
(05:33):
yeah. He's like, Yeah, well,we're always about growing here.
We're always about expandingreality.
So let's make it potluck andhave, like, the borrow cookies.
I borrow cookies. So everyonejust brings man. Tom, I'm, I'm
trying to maintain my weighthere, like you're talking about,
like a church pot. Like, everySunday 50. How much? How much
the pork line did you eatyesterday for our police when we
(05:56):
cater to the police, for ourFraternal Order of Police.
So each beach plate, I had atleast four slices, yes, and I
had four plates during lunch,and then I went back, got
another oneat staff meeting of pork loin.
Oh, itwas freaking fabulous. And I
woke up this morning, likecoffee. I was like, oh, I want
to still in the fridge. Get donea podcast. I'm gonna go Heat
some more up, because that wasfabulous. Best pork loin ever
(06:19):
had. My entire that's great.
Like, I woke up thinking aboutit this morning. Yeah, did you
really, yeah, wow, I don't dothat. You don't wake up thinking
about meat. Okay, thinking aboutcoffee, yeah? But no, I woke up
like, yeah. So, like, Iintentionally did not pack my
lunch today, even though I gotit in the fridge. Oh, with the
intent of raiding that fridge.
Oh, nice. That's really good.
Okay, yeah, we have some extrafor that tonight for you. Um,
(06:41):
it's gonna be delicious. It'sgonna be delicious the whole
day, which is gonna bewonderful. Um, so that, I mean,
it kind of brings us into ourmessage yesterday, which was
about peace, because apparentlypork alone provides you peace,
and you found earthly peace.
Well, cooked meats and a nicecup of coffee, you're good to
go. Everything is right in theworld, everything is right.
Everything's absolutely so we'vebeen breaking down a study in
Romans, that Psalm, this is parton what you're doing right with
(07:02):
our life groups. Yup, right.
You're going through a book. Canyou share a little bit more
about the book and what you'regoing through? Yeah? So it's a
historical fiction a week in thelife of Rome, and it's, it's
real circumstances that we knoware historically correct, yeah.
And then we know we're actuallygoing on in Rome from from
multiple sources, and we're justbuilding out, or the author
builds out plausible dialogbetween characters that are kind
(07:23):
of adjacent in the Bible, liketheir names that are mentioned
in the Bible that we don't knowanything about. And so he's
building out plausible fictionaldialog with them so we can get
attached to the characters, sowe can get a better personal
understanding and appreciationfor the circumstances I'm living
in. Yeah, in the hope that it'llmake it easier to interpret the
book of Romans. Great. Goingthrough the sermon series get
(07:43):
people real, hopefully, reallyinterested in the Bible app.
There's a reading plan wherethey can go through and read the
book of Romans over this fourweeks. And hopefully they'll
make notes and send mesuggestions they haven't yet.
Hint, hint, please send some soI know exactly what to address
for a spring Bible study. Icould deep dive Bible study into
Romans, so we can start toaddress some of these issues now
that they have a betterunderstanding of of what these
(08:04):
thingsmean. Yeah, that's great. And
then there's what two weeks intothe study. Right now,
we just put out the week two,the the day of Mars, which is
it's set as seven days, sostarting on Monday, the day of
the moon, and then Tuesday, theday of Mars, which we just sent
live on the Bible appyesterday. Oh, great. So my
group does have a suggestion? Wemet last night? Oh, awesome,
(08:28):
yeah. How did it go?
Um, it wasinteresting. It was a tough
content. Last time it wasa tough chapter, yeah, and there
were a lot of social issues inthat chapter that are swirling
now in present day. And so itwas.
(08:50):
It was painful. A lot of that'sbeen around for about 2000
years.
Yeah. So their suggestion was,do the disclaimer or the
trigger or a little warningbefore we
read the chapter. So, oh yeah,cuz that it, it
was a rough chapter, roughchapter, to be honest, when I
read the book, like, I got tothat chapter and about halfway
(09:13):
through, like, I had to set itdown for the day, oh yeah. I'm
like, Oh yeah, okay, I gotta getthrough it. And I went back to
it, and I'm like, Oh, man. Andthere's, there's other books in
the series. There's one the weekin the life of a Greco Roman
woman, and it's a lot like that.
It's one that Amy read for memake notes on to look at for
potential study going forward,like, if we did, like, a women's
group specific study, becausethere's also, like, a week in
(09:35):
the life of a centurion, and,yeah, stuff like that. And
there's just a lot of reallydifficult realities that the
Christians were dealing with,yeah, that really put them at
risk and and made them, youknow, stand out from the rest of
society. Yup, things that thatdefinitely they're really judged
for, and that they had to fight.
(09:55):
And you get to really see hugeamount of progress in the first
300 years. Of the church, thatthe church did to benefit
humanity, that most people rightnow have no idea, right,
anything about,like the concept of orphanages,
yes, and the fact that just alittle, you know, a little, not
really spoiler, but it wasbetter for many infants when
(10:18):
Constantine, when he became aChristian, and he made it
illegal to sell unwantedinfants. Oh, geez. And that
actually made their potentialfuture better. If you want to
know why, read the book, readthe book. Yeah. But, yeah, it
was a difficult time. I'm gladthat I'm born here and now and
not then and there.
Yeah. I mean, I think it'simportant, I mean, that those
(10:38):
life groups are really meant forkind of those deeper studies,
right? They're meant to drilldown even deeper on the content
that we're doing on Sundays,which is why we paired, like a
study in Romans for a Sundayforward facing study, right, to
a book study that was done inlife groups, where you could
really unpack that your groupsabout six to eight people, so
you could really unpack thatamong the group, right? And say,
hey, great. How do we deal withthis? And kind of break this
(10:59):
down and to be kind of raw withit, right? Like, hey, that's a
chapter, different things likethat as we kind of
grow forward and to hopefullyhave time to to kind of ruminate
on that, leave it in your backof your mind while you're going
through and then get after theholidays, come back and get into
a deep dive and really startdigging into Paul's letter
through that lens, through thatlens.
Because I never realized howgritty and dangerous and just
(11:31):
how unsafe it was like thethreat of fire, and then to hit
to know that fire swept throughit and nearly consumed half of
Rome. It's just, wow, yeah, youknow. And there, there weren't
firemen or fire prevention or,you know, and I just take that
(11:54):
for granted. Yeah, there's analarm that when smoke is
somewhere, it's going to go off,and that tells me to get out of
the building, but they didn'thave that. And these people
lived on the fifth floor andworried about that constantly,
yeah, right.
And there's no electricity, no,yeah. So all their energy for
heating, for lighting, for heat,was all fire, yeah. And
(12:16):
everything they lived in wasextremely flammable, and so it's
just, it's something we take, wekind of take for granted. So on
a question along that note thatthat week is the longest reading
as far as the content in theBible app, because Chapter Two
just throws so much stuff outthere, yeah, that a lot of
people aren't aware of. Like, Ikind of wonder, was it too much?
(12:36):
Because as far as the Bible appwent, I mean, there was a ton of
stuff in the Bible app because Iput more than I figured people
are actually going to read,yeah, people are curious about
parts. There's places to go intodifferent websites to different
places to get more information.
I just wonder, was it, was ittoo much, or was it like, I
mean, I want to be people thinkthey have to sit there for two
hours to go through all of it,but it was a
(12:57):
lot. Well, our conversationrevolved around, you know, the
historical data and what wasgoing on at that time. And so we
honestly did not get into a lotof what was in the Bible app,
but it, we got through it,yeah, cuz there's, there's,
(13:17):
there's a lot, a ton of stuff inthere. So I don't want to be
overwhelming, but there's just,there's just so much you can
almost do, like a four weekseries on Chapter Two,
reflecting back to the socialissues of today. Yeah, right?
You know, it's like, Well,nothing's changed, yeah, 2000
years, right? Yeah, just sittingin it. What, I think that's
(13:37):
important part about why, youknow, we look at a Sunday
morning in a 30 minute message,why we can't drill down for an
hour in a Bible study, right?
People like, I'm just yearningfor that deeper study. And I'm
like, Yeah, that's really hardon a Sunday. It's really hard to
take apart a whole scripture.
And people like, when we weremoving through this past Sunday,
we did four verses, right? So wedid, you know, Romans five, walk
them through that, and threeverses there, and then jump to
(13:59):
Romans eight and pull themforward a little bit in Romans,
right? And kind of got throughthere. Got through there. But,
you know, at some comments andbe like, Oh, that was, you know,
really good. I love kind of thatbreakdown of the different words
and, like, I just want more ofthat on Sunday. I was like,
that's wonderful. But, like, Icould preach for six weeks on
Romans, one, five verses, oneand two, oh, yeah. Like, I could
do that, right? I said, butthat's why we have the life
groups, that's why we have Biblestudy is so that we can drill
(14:22):
down in adifferent way. You know, people
crave that because it's hard.
It's hard to read on your own,because there's stuff that, if
you don't, if you're not studiedthe context, it's hard to
understand it. It's also hardbecause, like, that's not really
what Sunday's for. And Sunday'sto proclaim the good news, and
we do it through readingdifferent places, like in
Romans, to show them. You knowwhat the good news is, what it's
saying. You know, to us, butit's no we.
(14:44):
We have a responsibility to goand deep dive by ourselves,
because that's where thepersonal relationship with God
comes from. Yeah, you can't makeme have a relationship with God.
I have to pursue. Do thatrelationship with God,
that's right, that's right. Andwe're going to talk about that.
Well, that's important. I mean,one of the words we're going to
(15:06):
talk about today on this podcastis reconciliation, right? And
what is this relationship thatwith God that we have? And so
we're going to break it open,but before we do that, we're
going to sing our jingle. Yes, Iremember the jingle, right? Are
you guys? I know Tom, youdeserve me like he's gonna
forget again. I'm not gonnaforget again. We're gonna we're
gonna, we're gonna say thisnumber, and you can call
Roseanne at any time. And itgoes like this, 479-367-2285,
(15:29):
neighborhood church. All right.
Welcome now to the TNC podcast.
We're gonna be in Romans chapterfive, verses one and two, and
then we're gonna jump to 11. SoRoseanne, if you could read
verse one, Tom, if you couldread verse two, and then when we
move into verse 11, I'll closeus on that also. So Roseanne,
would you mind starting us offin Romans chapter
(15:51):
five? Therefore, since we arejustified by faith, we have
peace with God through our LordJesus Christ.
And then Continuing in versetwo, through whom we have
obtained access to this grace inwhich we stand and we boast in
our hope of sharing the glory ofGod,
(16:12):
we are going to live there for ahot second. And I want to jump
back into verse one. Therefore,since we are justified by faith,
we have peace with God throughour Lord Jesus Christ. So
there's a lot to unpack in thatstatement, and I want to
concentrate on the word peace,but I just want to give you the
kind of the formulaic nature ofthis verse. Therefore says, Hey,
we want you to read somethingthat's happening before this.
(16:35):
Therefore says, Hey, because ofall the things we've already
talked about. Therefore, sowhenever you read that in
Scripture and hear that youshould go back and read a little
bit about what's happeningbefore, and what's happening
before is God's promise realizedthrough faith. For the promise,
then this is back in verse 13 ofchapter four, for the promise
that he would inherit the worlddid not come to Abraham or to
his descendants through the law,but through the righteousness of
(16:57):
faith. Right? So what we'resaying is that okay, if you're
going to take faith forward, andthis is going to be your
relationship to God, thereforethese things happen. So if we
take that relationship to faith,let's hear it again. Therefore,
since we are justified by faith,hey, we just talked about all
these things, we're justified byin faith. Therefore, since we're
justified by faith, we now havepeace with God. So here's the
(17:18):
equation. We're justified byfaith, we have peace with God
now, justified by faith says,what? That's a big theological
language, right? The doctrine ofjustification, right? Like, what
does it mean to be justified byfaith? And I talked about this
on Sunday, justification trulymeans to have an approval from
(17:38):
God, right? This is divineapproval justified by God. So
this is God imparting faith tous. We are justified by faith.
We have right relationship andapproval from God by faith,
through faith, for faith. Andthen here's where it leads to we
lead that now leads us to havepeace with God. So for those of
us who sit in faith, right, asthree here, right? I think
(17:59):
there's a part of this equationwhere those who are discovering
Christ for the first time arediscovering the first part of
this being justified by faith,not by works, right, not by law,
not by these other things thatare happening, but by faith. And
they're discovering that part ofthe relationship to get to the
peace. Now if we're justified byfaith sitting here, it means
that at some level, weunderstand the nature of peace.
(18:19):
So my question to you all isthat, if we are justified by
faith, what do you understandabout peace in your life, where
do you have it, and where do younot have it? And so I would love
to hear where you guys are atwith peace, you
know, it reminds me of some ofthe stuff, like, historically,
you see, like Luke, like Lutherstory, like, you know, he, he
(18:40):
was a teacher, right? He hadgone to school to, you know, was
in it was a monk already, but hewasn't at peace with God until
he had read the gospel. And soit's like for me as a kid,
reading the Bible, trying tofigure it out. Of course, you
start at a book, at thebeginning of the book, and you
start reading all these do's anddon'ts. I'm like, oh, oh, geez.
And I didn't really have peacewith it until I got to better
(19:03):
understanding as I got older. Ofthe back of the book, you know,
of the gospel message in it,because it does take all the
pressure off of us. I think ofpeace. I think of with no
pressure, no anxiety, no fear.
And so it doesn't mean there'sno fear of death, but there's
like no fear of what comesafter. Yeah, right. You know
that this idea that, you know,that's something in my, one
thing in my life, I don't haveto, I don't have to worry about,
(19:25):
you know, people think aboutpeace like a lack of war, or
peace, you know, a lack offighting, but really it's, we're
talking about like a lack ofconsequence, you know, which
maybe is the closest somebodycan understand in our culture as
maybe somebody who's committed acrime but then gotten pardoned,
yeah, you know, or wrongedsomebody important to them and
(19:46):
was forgiven, there's thatmoment where, oh, okay, I'm not
rejected, I'm yeah. So feelingthat like, where to find it in
my life. I mean, I think we finddifferent kinds of peace with
different relations.
Relationships, yeah, you know.
And I think it's important to tofight for peace in
relationships. But coming tochurch, for some reason, is
(20:08):
typically very peaceful to me,yeah, and especially for
something like evening services,a little darker outside, it's
the mood, right? It's just amood, but just knowing that I'm
coming not to try to fulfillsomething, not not to try to
achieve something, not to checka box, to hold my place, but
just to know that that I'menough, just as I am. Yeah, you
(20:33):
know. And as far as feelingpeace around me, man, it's
either out in the middle of thewoods or at night under a clear
sky, yeah, Sky, we can look upat all these stars. I'm like, of
all that vacuum of space and thecold and all that stuff, like,
God has put me where I need tobe to be able to sit here and be
warm and breathe air and begrounded in the earth.
(20:56):
Has that always been your samepiece? Like, would you say that?
Like, that's you've grown intothat?
Yeah, totally, because I didn'tunderstand as a kid enough about
it to be able to realize what itwas, yeah, you know. And I
think, for, like, for theChristian, if all you read is
the New Testament, and you haveno idea what's in the law, yeah,
you don't know what you have,you know. Just like if, if
(21:19):
somebody says, I forgive you,but you have no idea what
they're talking about and whatyou did wrong. You can't
appreciate what you have. Yeah,right. And I think that
appreciation comes as we startto get older. We do more study,
we start to realize that,because we always want to
remember ourselves in mostpositive light, yep, and we're
going to find somebody worsethan us to compare ourselves to,
to make us feel better, butuntil we really realize that how
(21:42):
far we missed the mark andeverything, and that it's okay
anyway. And I think that takes acertain amount of maturity,
yeah, to, you know, to get tothat point. So yeah, very, like,
in my teenage years, is verymuch about trying to achieve.
Yeah, we didn't seek peace. Imean, we didn't know, I would
even make a venture to say, wedidn't know what piece was.
No, I had no interest in it,which is because I didn't know
(22:02):
what it was, seekingachievement, but that's an empty
promise, right? There's alwayssomebody faster, stronger,
better, you know, there's no,you know, it gets into like
Ecclesiastes, you know, that's,it's a waste of time. It's a
good to try to achieve to anextent, but not to find,
not to find, I think you justsaid something kind of helping
(22:23):
to define peace is that lack ofpeace is believing in an empty
promise, right? There's no wayto find peace in an empty
promise. The only place we canfind peace is in the promise of
the kingdom.
And you can't try to understandit like book level, because
it's, you know, Scripture tellsus it's a peace beyond
understanding, yeah, that it'sjust like, Finally, uh oh, yeah,
(22:46):
okay,I'm here. It's just, yeah. What
about you, Roseanne? Where doyou find peace in your life? And
has it always been the same?
I don't think it's always beenthe same. I don't think I was on
an achievement to directory, towhatever that is, a trajectory,
to director. Trajectory.
(23:10):
I could see that's great. I loveit for some reason. I want to
hang here for a second andreally get it, but I don't want
to hang there. Also. That'sgood. But
having peace isn't necessarily alack of tension, but it's a,
(23:32):
it's a it's an understandingthat and an acceptance, that I'm
accepted. I can remember timesitting in church, and I think
that is one place I find peace,absolutely, um, but also when my
sisters and I are trying tostart a habit of walking every
(23:55):
Sunday afternoon. So we wentagain this past Sunday, but just
being out in nature, yeah, andand having fun, being joking
around, nature is where I findpeace. And in prayer, yeah, I
(24:17):
feel like I'm a prayer warrior.
So I find peace in that Ialways, even in the turmoil that
has happened in our world. Mostrecently, I've I pray, and I
find that God's got it, yeah,and we just give it over to him,
he'll take care of it. Yeah. Idon't have to worry about it. I
(24:37):
don't have to worry aboutretribution, or, Oh,
I said that, yeah, you got thatone, right?
But it's just the I don't haveto worry about it. God's got it,
yeah, yeah. I think there's abeautiful nature of, I mean,
when you give yourself over tothe promise, right? I mean, if
we're nesting this in thepromise of the kingdom, when you
finally give yourself over tothat, you realize that God does
(24:59):
have. It, right? And thatprovides a sense of peace that
you cannot get from this world,right? We can try so many
things, and that was part of themessage on Sunday. I said, you
cannot have peace withoutrelationship with God, and you
can seek it. But I said, andyes, you might feel it, but it's
fleeting. It withers and itfades, right? And as quickly as
you have it is as quick as itgoes away, because it's not a
sustaining peace, right? It's aneverlasting peace, right? It's
(25:22):
not a gift from God in thispiece. It's a worldly peace. And
I think so many of us craveworldly peace, right? We crave
just a freeness from thedistraction, right? I think
that's why sitting out among thestars you find this sense of
contemplative peace, yeah?
Because that peace never comesto being a crowd of people. No,
yeah, because you can't trust acrowd of people, yeah, right,
(25:42):
yeah, absolutely. But you cantrust God people flip flop,
yeah, you know. But God's thesame, always forever.
Mm, hmm, yeah. I've been findingpeace by sitting out in the my
truck bed. And I'll put somecushions out there, and I'll
just stare up at the stars,right? And kind of that like
evening dusk, right? And I'lljust kind of look and there's a
humbleness, and there's like, myplace in the in the creation,
(26:05):
you know, like kind of spacethat I sit in and and it's just,
it's just peaceful, right? Ijust allow myself to be in the
breeze, right? And to feel thatI experienced the same thing on
the trails when, when I'm wayout on the trails, and I'm just
in it, and then a breeze comesalong, Oh, I get so excited
because I'm like, it's justpeace to me, right? It's just
peace of this kind of, you know,being free from the distractions
(26:26):
of the world that would distractus from our relationship with
God, and entering fully intorelationship with God and being
part of that. I love the soundof the wind blowing through
leaves and branches right middleof the woods. It's great. It's
just, it's, that's neat.
Yeah, and the other place I findpieces in a Steam Sauna. So
let's just put that out there.
Oh, gosh, like, a really hot,120 130 degree Steam Sauna with
a little bit of eucalyptus inthe steam. Oh, I tell you right
(26:50):
now, like, when I go to like,hey, what's rest and recovery a
Steam Sauna with Eucalyptus likethat, that's my jam. I can spend
all day in there. And the lasttime was in when I spent like,
45 minutes to an hour in there.
Don't recommend that definitelycame out. Sure, is probably a
labor. Yeah, yeah, there's Idefinitely blew whatever time
frame was supposed to be inthere seeking my worldly peace,
(27:12):
and got smited by the sauna. Iswhat happened. I walked out as
like, Ooh, I'm a little dizzy. Idon't I don't feel good. So here
we go. So, I mean, I think thisis important. So one, we've been
justified by faith, we havepeace with God. Here's the next
part of that equation. We havepeace with God through our Lord
Jesus Christ, right? So I thinkthey're extending this
(27:32):
relationship with God, right?
Justified by faith, we havepeace with God through Jesus
Christ. This is where ourrelationship quotient comes in
about how we have this peace. Itcan only be through Jesus Christ
that we have this peace, becauseJesus Christ came for the
promise of the kingdom. And so Iwas starting to relate this all
together on Sunday, just talkingthrough what it means that we
have to have relationship withGod in order to find peace. And
(27:53):
then if you move into verse two,it says we've obtained access to
this grace, which is from JesusChrist, right? The word made
flesh. We have this grace towhich we stand and we boast in
the hope of sharing the glory ofGod. So it's interesting, this
boast language is a very proudlanguage, and I struggle
whenever there's the word boastin Scripture to say about our
(28:17):
relationship with God.
Well, then we were thinkingabout a modern, yeah, a modern
usage of how we use that wordright? Isn't always how what the
word that's in here meanscorrect. So, I mean this the
NRSV that I'm looking at. I meanthat came out in like, 1950
Yeah, correct. So, and we don'tuse the word boast, right? Like,
(28:37):
what? What's a common word thatwe'd use instead of boast, brag,
brag, oh, brag, proud, right?
Tooting your own horn,egotistical, Yeah, cuz it's all
about self. It is 100% but hereboast is about not about self,
but about God. That's correct,and it's interesting. Some some
translations the I looked it upearlier, but I had, I got a note
(29:00):
in the margin of my Bible that Imade, have no idea one when
Calco, Calco meta, and is theform of it that's in here. And a
lot of translations render thatas rejoice.
Oh, interesting, because it canbe in the in place of the word
boast,yeah. Oh, because it could be.
You know, we talked about thisearlier. It's like the idea of a
(29:21):
stiff, upright neck, as opposedto, like, hanging your head, you
know, it's your head held high.
So it's like, it's a certainamount of being proud, but not
of self, of God, of assurance inGod, and of boasting, but it's
exalting or rejoicing. Andthat's, you know. So, I mean,
(29:44):
like, Well, those are all verydifferent words in English, but
it's idea is about, I thinkabout, like, glorying. I saw one
place where it said it's aboutboasting in God. Is glory in God
or giving glory to God? So it'snot like a a self boast. Mm,
hmm. Like when the word getsused today. It's all about
giving the glory to God,rejoicing in the glory of God.
Yeah, was not anything that wedid, right? It's what God gave
(30:08):
us, and we walk with pride inthe fact that we are reconciled
to God and can leave eternitywith Him. Mm, hmm. Now that's
something to walk in pride of.
And this is a writing of Lutherthat also got misunderstood and
kind of weaponized against himwhen he says sin boldly. That
came from a letter he wrote tohis barber, who was so concerned
(30:31):
that he was doing things wrongand how he was praising God and
studying the Bible that he wasgoing to be condemned, because
there was a lot of that at thattime right. And so Luther and
his quippines writes in thisletter because he says, I'm, you
know, such a sinner. He said,You are indeed, when he's like,
a sinner of the I can't rememberthe exact wording, but like, Oh,
(30:53):
you are definitely, like thesupreme sinner. Yeah, right.
Which is like, Oh, that's notsure. It's not reassuring, yeah,
yeah. He said, But sin boldlyand believe even more boldly in
the grace of God revealed to youin Jesus Christ. Yeah, you know,
be, be bold in your sin. Youcan, I know I'm a sinner, but
you can still stand with yourwith your head held up upright,
(31:17):
knowing that you've been giventhis gift from God. So you're,
you know, you're okay. It's likea relief of shame. Yeah, you
know, shame and fear ofconsequences. That's kind of
what this reminds me of.
But I think, in order, I mean,if I'm putting this, this
formulaic equation together, itcomes in verses one and two, I
(31:37):
really think that in order toexperience the space where we
can boast, right in the glory ofyou know, our relationship with
Jesus Christ, we have to havepeace with God first, because
peace doesn't allow us to boastbeyond being humble, right, in
our relationship with God. Ithink when I think of an earthly
boasting and being proud andegotistical, right? You can
always hear it when someone'sreally proud of what they do,
and they tell you they're proudof what they do and how good
(31:59):
they are at what they do and howthey're the only person can do
what they it always comes acrossyucky.
Every time I hear it. I'm like,I'm like, do you hear yourself?
Like, can you hear yourselfspeaking this? Because the rest
of the people in the room hearyou speaking of this way, and
it's just like, man, like, I'mnever the expert in the room.
Like, let's just be honest.
Like, there is always going tobe more people. And the way I
humble myself is like, I lovethe neighborhood, I love our
campus, I love little neighbors,preschool. I love that we have
(32:21):
rentals, and I love that we havea mission, kitchen, food
trailer. Do you know what's beendone before? All of that? We are
not the first church to do anysingle thing that we have done
here right now. Mind you, Ithink we have unique expression
in it. I think it's great forus, right? But there are
churches 50 years ago that weredoing this kind of stuff, right?
And so when I look at like, oh,the neighborhood is like, Humble
(32:42):
thyself, because you were notthe first. It just took you
longer to get there because youtried to do it by yourself, you
know, like, and so I look atthis, and I'm like, man, we need
peace with God in order to getto this boasting with God.
Yes, I think we it's one thingto be happy about what we've
achieved, and that's that's agood thing, but it's the the
boasting, the glorifying, beingsent to, you know, going to, God
(33:05):
is the difference.
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna takethat statement for a second,
because it's very interestinghow you said it, and I'm just
gonna unpack it for one secondbecause I think there's a little
nuance. You said. It'sinteresting about boasting and
what we've achieved, right? Andyou have this achievement
language, right? And I thinkthat's, that's where I get stuck
when I think about the wordboast, is because it makes me
think of achievements, right?
And what we've done with God.
(33:27):
And then I go back to thisjustified by faith, and I'm
like, Oh, they remove theachievement right away. Like,
it's like, you can't achievewithout relationship with God.
You can't achieve without beingjustified by God's faithfulness.
That temptation away. It's like,right away it says, like, Hey,
if you want peace, you'rejustified by faith. Like, if you
want peace, you're not anachievement oriented person. And
(33:48):
then it just leavesgratefulness, beautiful
statement, beautiful statement,love. Gratefulness, right? Like,
that's a huge identity of whatwe needed to do. And so let's,
let's turn over into verse 11,and kind of take a look through
this. So this is the same.
Chapter five results ofjustification, and then verse 11
says this. But more than that,we even boast. Let's go back
into that word, or rejoice, orrejoice in God, through our
(34:10):
Lord, Jesus Christ, through whomwe have now received
reconciliation. Now thisreconciliation word I
concentrated on a lot, andhere's where I went into my
point in the message I said, youcannot have peace with God
without a relationship with God,right? You have to have
relationship with God, and youcan't have a relationship with
God without reconciliation toGod. AKA, we don't start in the
(34:33):
space where we are this perfectcreature that's perfectly
aligned with God. No Godreconciled God's self to us
through Jesus Christ, sacrificeright and crucifixion and
resurrection right with thepromise of the kingdom, you have
to have this relationship ofreconciliation. And where I went
is that if you want to findpeace with people in your life,
(34:53):
and you want to desire this andhave that, you have to be
reconciled to the people in yourlife, which, whoo. That's a
tough statement, because I askedthe church to raise their hand
about how many people that needreconciliation? And I mean, you
got 75% of people raise theirhand, going, I need
reconciliation with some peoplein my life, and some people are
just stubborn and unwilling. Oh,yeah, reconcile. And I
said, How many of you don't evenhave the opportunity to
(35:15):
reconcile a relationship in yourlife? And like, 50% of those
people hold up their hands,right? Like, I ain't never going
back to that. Like you're notasking me to go back and talk to
that relationship, which is, Ithink, true, right? I don't want
to put anyone in harm's way. Sohow do you Here's a great
question for our podcast hosttoday. How do you reconcile a
relationship that you don't haveaccess to anymore?
Well, I think you can be you canreconcile it without being in
(35:36):
it. Okay, talk. Say more,because sometimes there is a
benefit to healthy boundaries.
Oh, you know, especially ifthere's a matter of physical
danger, emotional abuse, youknow, stuff like that. And it
kind of gets goes back toforgiveness, where you can let
go of anger with somebody,forgive them, but still maintain
that protective barrier thatsays that I'm not going to allow
(36:01):
myself to be harmed by thisperson again, right? And so
that's part of our reconcilingour relationship, because our
purpose is to to love ourneighbor. Yep, it doesn't
necessarily mean getting in thecage of the lion. Yeah, you
know, I can. I can love them,which you know, and choose to to
not hate, which is tough to do,but that mean you have to like
(36:22):
them, and that mean you have tospend a bunch of time with them.
But so reconciling with themdoesn't mean you have to. It's
like reconciling an account onceit's closed before you close it,
yeah, closing out the books, youcan reconcile that reaction,
that relationship at a pointwhere you can say, I forgive
you, but for my own safety or myown mental health, I'm not ever
(36:45):
going to talk to you again.
Yeah, and that can be okay, aslong as it's not motivated from
hate, if, like, you know, youknow, screw you, I'm not going
to talk to you again. Yeah,that's not reconciled. Yeah, no,
yeah. Say that you know, hey, Iforgive you, but I cannot
continue in this relationship.
And you can, you can bereconciled. Yeah, right now,
reconciling it and being in it.
(37:06):
That case, both people have tobe willing to record, yeah,
true, true, which I think iseven harder, yeah, how to do
that? That's the trick. Andluckily, God has inspired many
wonderful personal counselors,therapists, stuff like that, to
help people work through that.
Because, man, that can becomplicated.
That's super complicated. Andwhat about you? Roseanne, right,
what do you think about can youreconcile with people if you
(37:28):
don't have access to thosepeople anymore, how would you
reconcile to them?
I think just as God forgave methrough Jesus Christ, yeah, I
can forgive them. Mm, hmm. Andbut again, like Tom said, I
don't have to allow them to pushmy boundaries. Yeah, right. I
(37:49):
just move on. Mm, hmm.
I think there's a part offorgiveness and leaning that
into God, and I think that'spart of where we where I took
this message. But I think theother part of this too is that
it's not only the forgiveness,right? I think forgiveness is a
paramount side of thatrelationship. I think there's
another side that's also prayingfor them, right? Not only are we
(38:10):
forgiving someone, but imaginethe forgiveness aspect into then
asking God to fill their lifewith the Spirit, for them to be
spirit led for their life to,you know, inspire other people
and for them to share a messageof their experience with God
like now, not only we'reforgiving someone, we're saying,
Hey, God, now use them in thestory of the kingdom on earth to
lead people to the kingdom ofheaven. I think that transition
(38:32):
is reconciliation, right? Thatthat's reconciliation not to us,
because that's not who we'retrying to reconcile to. We're
trying to reconcile people toGod, right? And if we need to do
that, we first need to reconcileourselves to God, which is the
prayer of forgiveness. It is theprayer of I'm going to pray over
you and see that God workswonders in your ways, and then
to see that reconciliation comethrough for them, also in
another space. So I thinkthere's a really neat space
(38:54):
where we see this reconciliationas an identity of who we are as
Christians and how to live thatas a deeper relationship with
our loved ones and ones we usedto love. I mean, what's the best
way to say that? Right friendsthat we don't have anymore? I
think that profound partner isthat we've received
reconciliation. And if I thinkof that word, receive, that's
(39:18):
where I think God is calling usto do with the people in our
lives too. They need to receivereconciliation. They might not
seek it, they might not want it,but they need to receive
reconciliation. And that needsto happen from us. But man, a
lot of people in relationshipsthat are hard to reconcile,
right? Do you guys experiencethat too? Do you have
relationships in your life thatare still hard to reconcile?
(39:40):
I'm sure first marriage, yeah,that was hard. Yeah,
I can't think of anything else,okay, well, look at you having
great relationships.
Congratulations. No boast, boastin the Lord.
Just chemo. I don't know aboutthat, but yeah. That was yeah,
(40:04):
that was it, yeah, yeah. I thinkwe all have probably more than
we realize. I can't. I'm tryingto think of a good example right
now. But again, it goes to theback of us wanting to, you know,
always paint ourselves in ourown Yeah, in the best possible
light. It's kind of like a self,self defense kind of thing. And
sometimes we might not realizewe need to reconcile ourselves
to somebody because, you know,people want to be polite, and
(40:24):
sometimes you make them mad theydon't tell you until it hits
like a boiling point. Yeah, youknow. And I, I see that a lot,
when people are completelyshocked that they're getting
arrested because of somethingthey've done to somebody else,
yeah? Then I'm like, You shouldnot be surprised about this.
Yeah, yeah. This is the momentthat, yeah. Oh, and there's
family members I don't see veryoften. There's friends that you
know, people I was friends within high school that have taken a
(40:46):
different direction in life,where I'm like, I just need to
stay away from that. And so Idon't know if it needs
reconciliation necessarily, butyeah, that's interesting to
think about.
Yeah, right? And I think that'swhere people landed on Sunday,
right? And it's what my hopewas, is that we would just think
about the relationships thatwe've maybe dismissed
(41:07):
reconciliation. It's just notbeen something we've ever sought
out, or something that weequated reconciliation with
presence, right? And we don'tneed to make that equation
right, like reconciliation isbefore God, and if people
receive reconciliation, thatmeans that, yeah, we've
reconciled ourselves toGod and therefore to others,
yeah, because it's notnecessarily going back to the
way it wasbefore. That's right, that's
right. And that was a big thingI said on Sundays that that's
(41:28):
not how we see this, right? AndI said, and if you want
reconciliation, you can onlyhave reconciliation through the
hope and the promise of JesusChrist. And what I was saying is
that it's not about going backin the relationship. It's about
living into the hope, livinginto the hope that there is a
kingdom where we do desire thateveryone would be there with
their relationship with God, butwe have to reconcile in order to
do that. It's the same reasonJesus Christ came for us, for
(41:50):
the sake of the world, right?
And then God gave His Only Sonso that we are reconciled to
God, right? That there was thisplan for the kingdom for all of
us and and that's what we'releaning into in the next
message. The next message isgoing to be salvation for all.
And it's interesting, because aswe were crafting the series, and
salvation for all came up inseminary. You guys remember Rob
(42:12):
Bell? You guys remember RobBell, Michigan pastor. Okay, so
he was big in like, the 2000sright? We brought NUMA series,
different things like this,everything else going on, and
wrote a book called Love wins.
And this book was aboutsalvation for all that. In the
end, love wins, right? And so mybuddy in seminary was doing a
(42:32):
book study on this book, and oneof his final papers in seminary
on this, love wins, right? Thiskind of theology of it's always
ends with love, right? Type ofdeal. And so he got excited that
Rob Bell was just published hisbook. And so he goes, Hey, would
you come up to the first churchservice, you know, where, after
he published his book, he'sgoing to talk about his book
being published, right? And Iwas like, Oh, that would be
(42:54):
awesome, you know? I was like,Let's travel up. So we drove up
to Michigan to go attend theservice. Service is good. It's
in the round, right? It's agreat church, right? We walk in,
things are going cool. It'sgoing to be neat to listen to
this and everything else likethat, and and then. But I don't,
I don't see pastor Rob, I don't,I don't see him in the church
and everything. I was like, oh,maybe, maybe he's not, he like,
maybe he's not here, and wemissed it, and whatever else is
(43:16):
happening, right? And then allof a sudden, the music guy's
down. It's time for the message,and they do, like a book intro
thing right on the screen. Andthen all of a sudden, here comes
pastor Rob walking down theaisle with two bodyguards right
for the center of the church,right? And the bodyguards were
there. People can see the lookon the podcast. Look you give me
is exactly like I was like,what's happening, like, what's
(43:38):
going on, and he had protectionbecause of threats he'd
received, because of thenarrative that love wins, right?
And that love and Jesus is loveis for all. And so he preached
with these two bodyguards downon the stage, right? And I
expected it to be much more liketraditional church presence,
which was like, hey, you'll beon the lobby afterwards. You can
talk with them different thingslike that, right? Nope. He got
done with the message, and himand him and his bodyguards
(44:00):
walked off the stage and neversaw him again. Like, that was
it. And I was like, I don't knowif this is the best reality of
talking about like, love wins. Iwas like, it was this whole
takeaway. I was like, I here. Weare fear one, yeah, yeah, it's
crazy. So we're gonna be talkingabout this identity of Love
wins. Tom, what's going on nextin the Bible study
(44:22):
group? So we're coming up onWednesday. So I'm working, I'll
be working on that today, yeah,building it out for next
week. Wait, you said Wednesday.
I mean, people just think it'sthe day of the week. What do you
mean by Wednesday?
Well, that's what it's and Idon't remember which the because
the Roman god is so muchdifferent in how we go from
Roman to Norse, yeah, allthrough. So I don't remember
(44:43):
what the Roman god is for thisweek. Okay, I'll be figuring
that out, going back and rereviewing that chapter, yeah,
after podcast today and startbuilding it out.
Great. That's awesome, yeah? Sothat's good. That part of got
the, not the podcast, but thelife groups continue for what?
Six weeks. This is kind of howthe studies draw. It's us. Well,
there's the intro week, and thenthere's seven weeks for Monday,
(45:04):
Monday through Sunday, great.
And so it's total eight weeks.
There's 10 weeks in the timeperiod that we have the life
groups running, because somewhile being every other some
will be every week. And so ifyou're doing every week, you'll
hit a couple weeks early at theend. So it's a total, total
eight, eight Bible app. Okay?
(45:26):
Trees will go out, includingthe, you know, the intro, and
then Monday, Tuesday. So there'sthree in there right now. Yeah,
great. And the fourth one willbe building today, and we'll go
live next Tuesday.
Great. That's awesome. So that'sa big plug for life groups here
at the church, we're in thestudy on Romans. We're talking
about salvation for all nextweek, and so we're going to
continue this study on RomansAnd all
God's people said, Amen. You.
I don't know. Hey, good. Welcometo the TNC podcast. Guess what?
(00:04):
We've been talking about coffee.
So if you're just joining us,guess what? You get a coffee
conversation to start thispodcast. Roseanne, what were you
going to say about coffee? Youwere just about to jump in. Are
you also like a connoisseur?
Like have the station of coffeeat home and everything else?
No, no, I have a Hamilton Beachsingle cup. Not even a Keurig,
probably one step aboveFolgers. You're one step above
(00:24):
Folger. Oh, every day I wake up,pour myself a cup of the rich
Folgers aroma. The best part ofwaking up, it's the do up. Do
what? Anybody the Folgers themesong? That's Oh, well,
that's not the one that was on,like when I was a kid. I don't
think watching TVWell, I don't remember the one
from the 50s. Whatwas the one like, the best part
(00:46):
of waking up? Yeah, it wasn'tnear as fancy as
what you're no that was theacapella version that rockapel
is saying for them, like out ofthe brain commercial, awesome.
I've seen that for years, so I'min between you two. So like
Keurig on Tom's side, HamiltonBeach, I love it. You said that
(01:06):
on your side, like the 10 cupcoffee pot you're just going
for. I got a bur grinder. I havethe Chemex pour over, but I
don't use that too often, right?
And then we have just a regularcoffee pot, but I burger grind
it in the fellow ODE, which isgreat, right? Awesome, right?
And then I put it into, Iusually make, like, six cups,
right? And I put it into justour regular coffee pot, but then
(01:28):
I sprinkle cinnamon on the top.
I love to sprinkle spices on thetop of my coffee. Oh, like, it's
so good. And then my favoritetype of coffee is Cuban coffee.
Have you ever had Cuban coffee?
Yes, cute. The little shots ofcoffee that are, like, super
high packed of like, espressoand sugar and all that kind of
Yeah, that fits. I don't get itthat option. So it might fit my
(01:49):
personality,but I don't get it that chance
to get Turkish coffee. I loveTurkish coffee. Oh my gosh, that
is so strong.
Love Turkish coffee. Yeah, wehad that when we were in Uganda
on mission. We had Turkishcoffee, and it was delicious.
I love it. I had it in Turkey,and I think it made my hair grow
faster forabout 24 hours. Yeah, that was
great. Yeah, yeah, oh, it justgets you going. Just absolutely
(02:11):
chew it though, you know, Imean, you need dental floss
afterwards.
Yeah, it's beautiful, beautiful.
Now, if you're joining us now,we are talking some coffee
conversation, which I thinkchurch and coffee go together.
They are synonymous, right? Youhave to have great if it's a
good church, there will becoffee. There will be, you know
what? You know, good coffee.
Well, so here, I don't want tomake that distinction, so I was
going to appreciate Tom for notmaking the distinction. I think
church and coffee go together. Idon't necessarily think that
(02:33):
churches have to have greatcoffee, because
what's good varies. Like I had ahumbling moment when we were at
the youth gathering in NewOrleans, and they had a it was a
group from Africa. It was all,all women, yeah, who, I think
they were all widows. And they,they set up their their coffee
company to support themselveslike a little community, because
the way the culture is set upthere not kind to to women other
(02:54):
than being supported by a man,yeah. And so they had this whole
setup of this coffee, and theywere bragging on their coffee,
and they had a blind taste test,where you go through and think
the one that was best. And I waslike, Oh, that's a little too
much going on. That one, man, Ilike this one. And she's like,
you literally just pickedFolgers. It tastes like cup
coffee.
Yeah. It's just like, here'swhere it's at. And
(03:16):
she's like, just, I mean, therewas shame in her eyes. And she
looked at me like, How dare youI will tell people that we drink
fo chairs, and they're like,it's a French coffee. And
they're like, whatyou can probably buy it at
Target.
My brother, who's coffeeconnoisseur. He I mean, he's the
Bougie coffee kind of guy,right? And goes into it. He came
to our church, and he's like,dude, love your coffee. What
(03:37):
coffee do you have here? And Iwas like, dude, straight
Folgers, man. I was like, andthat was in the past. Now we
have fun. You know, we had greatcoffee that we buy. We go to our
local our coffee roasters. Sowe're getting the onyx, we're
getting the heroes. We'regetting the airship. Best coffee
in the country is here, isn'twhy would we not have the best
coffee on Sunday morning whenwe're here? People love coffee
drinking on Sunday morning. So Ithink there's a really important
(04:00):
part about that in the churchenvironment. But I think coffee
is synonymous with church andlike Sunday morning, I don't
necessarily think has to begreat coffee. I think people
kind of just will drink coffeeat church, right? Do you want it
to be great coffee?
Roseanne? I want it to be goodcoffee. I have poured out coffee
from here. Yeah, from here.
You've what can I sip? Yeah,yeah, here in other churches,
wow.
(04:23):
So Miss 10 cup. Hamilton Beach,over here is pouring out one cup
at a time. Okay, how much do youpour? At home, when you make a
coffee pot, it's just one cup.
Oh, it's a one cup. Oh, 10ounces. There you go. Okay, so
what? What is your palate? Areyou like a dark roast? Are you
light roaster? I don't like adark roast. You don't like a
dark roast.
No, I like a medium roast. ButSo Starbucks has the little
(04:47):
Keurig Yeah, cups of fall blend.
That is yummy. That is yummy.
Okay, fall blends in me, and myfavorite coffee is spirit of 76
oh, black rifle coffee cup. Yes,that is so good. Wow, okay. All
right, yeah, so that'sbeautiful.
I love bougie, nothing.
It's great. Yeah, so what weought to do if we're gonna up
(05:10):
our church game? Yeah, we gotthe coffee down pat. We got good
coffee. Yeah, we need, like,homemade cookies after church.
Oh, you know what? We have achef. All right, we can give a
chef Troy and be like, Man, whatif he made some, like, just some
bakery goods for, like, everySunday to have out, right, when
we were there, right? We coulddo it, like, as a fundraiser for
the youth or something likethat. Even he's
not a baker, though, yeah, he'snot a baker. He's a cook, Chef,
(05:33):
yeah. He's like, Yeah, well,we're always about growing here.
We're always about expandingreality.
So let's make it potluck andhave, like, the borrow cookies.
I borrow cookies. So everyonejust brings man. Tom, I'm, I'm
trying to maintain my weighthere, like you're talking about,
like a church pot. Like, everySunday 50. How much? How much
the pork line did you eatyesterday for our police when we
(05:56):
cater to the police, for ourFraternal Order of Police.
So each beach plate, I had atleast four slices, yes, and I
had four plates during lunch,and then I went back, got
another oneat staff meeting of pork loin.
Oh, itwas freaking fabulous. And I
woke up this morning, likecoffee. I was like, oh, I want
to still in the fridge. Get donea podcast. I'm gonna go Heat
some more up, because that wasfabulous. Best pork loin ever
(06:19):
had. My entire that's great.
Like, I woke up thinking aboutit this morning. Yeah, did you
really, yeah, wow, I don't dothat. You don't wake up thinking
about meat. Okay, thinking aboutcoffee, yeah? But no, I woke up
like, yeah. So, like, Iintentionally did not pack my
lunch today, even though I gotit in the fridge. Oh, with the
intent of raiding that fridge.
Oh, nice. That's really good.
Okay, yeah, we have some extrafor that tonight for you. Um,
(06:41):
it's gonna be delicious. It'sgonna be delicious the whole
day, which is gonna bewonderful. Um, so that, I mean,
it kind of brings us into ourmessage yesterday, which was
about peace, because apparentlypork alone provides you peace,
and you found earthly peace.
Well, cooked meats and a nicecup of coffee, you're good to
go. Everything is right in theworld, everything is right.
Everything's absolutely so we'vebeen breaking down a study in
Romans, that Psalm, this is parton what you're doing right with
(07:02):
our life groups. Yup, right.
You're going through a book. Canyou share a little bit more
about the book and what you'regoing through? Yeah? So it's a
historical fiction a week in thelife of Rome, and it's, it's
real circumstances that we knoware historically correct, yeah.
And then we know we're actuallygoing on in Rome from from
multiple sources, and we're justbuilding out, or the author
builds out plausible dialogbetween characters that are kind
(07:23):
of adjacent in the Bible, liketheir names that are mentioned
in the Bible that we don't knowanything about. And so he's
building out plausible fictionaldialog with them so we can get
attached to the characters, sowe can get a better personal
understanding and appreciationfor the circumstances I'm living
in. Yeah, in the hope that it'llmake it easier to interpret the
book of Romans. Great. Goingthrough the sermon series get
(07:43):
people real, hopefully, reallyinterested in the Bible app.
There's a reading plan wherethey can go through and read the
book of Romans over this fourweeks. And hopefully they'll
make notes and send mesuggestions they haven't yet.
Hint, hint, please send some soI know exactly what to address
for a spring Bible study. Icould deep dive Bible study into
Romans, so we can start toaddress some of these issues now
that they have a betterunderstanding of of what these
(08:04):
thingsmean. Yeah, that's great. And
then there's what two weeks intothe study. Right now,
we just put out the week two,the the day of Mars, which is
it's set as seven days, sostarting on Monday, the day of
the moon, and then Tuesday, theday of Mars, which we just sent
live on the Bible appyesterday. Oh, great. So my
group does have a suggestion? Wemet last night? Oh, awesome,
(08:28):
yeah. How did it go?
Um, it wasinteresting. It was a tough
content. Last time it wasa tough chapter, yeah, and there
were a lot of social issues inthat chapter that are swirling
now in present day. And so itwas.
(08:50):
It was painful. A lot of that'sbeen around for about 2000
years.
Yeah. So their suggestion was,do the disclaimer or the
trigger or a little warningbefore we
read the chapter. So, oh yeah,cuz that it, it
was a rough chapter, roughchapter, to be honest, when I
read the book, like, I got tothat chapter and about halfway
(09:13):
through, like, I had to set itdown for the day, oh yeah. I'm
like, Oh yeah, okay, I gotta getthrough it. And I went back to
it, and I'm like, Oh, man. Andthere's, there's other books in
the series. There's one the weekin the life of a Greco Roman
woman, and it's a lot like that.
It's one that Amy read for memake notes on to look at for
potential study going forward,like, if we did, like, a women's
group specific study, becausethere's also, like, a week in
(09:35):
the life of a centurion, and,yeah, stuff like that. And
there's just a lot of reallydifficult realities that the
Christians were dealing with,yeah, that really put them at
risk and and made them, youknow, stand out from the rest of
society. Yup, things that thatdefinitely they're really judged
for, and that they had to fight.
(09:55):
And you get to really see hugeamount of progress in the first
300 years. Of the church, thatthe church did to benefit
humanity, that most people rightnow have no idea, right,
anything about,like the concept of orphanages,
yes, and the fact that just alittle, you know, a little, not
really spoiler, but it wasbetter for many infants when
(10:18):
Constantine, when he became aChristian, and he made it
illegal to sell unwantedinfants. Oh, geez. And that
actually made their potentialfuture better. If you want to
know why, read the book, readthe book. Yeah. But, yeah, it
was a difficult time. I'm gladthat I'm born here and now and
not then and there.
Yeah. I mean, I think it'simportant, I mean, that those
(10:38):
life groups are really meant forkind of those deeper studies,
right? They're meant to drilldown even deeper on the content
that we're doing on Sundays,which is why we paired, like a
study in Romans for a Sundayforward facing study, right, to
a book study that was done inlife groups, where you could
really unpack that your groupsabout six to eight people, so
you could really unpack thatamong the group, right? And say,
hey, great. How do we deal withthis? And kind of break this
(10:59):
down and to be kind of raw withit, right? Like, hey, that's a
chapter, different things likethat as we kind of
grow forward and to hopefullyhave time to to kind of ruminate
on that, leave it in your backof your mind while you're going
through and then get after theholidays, come back and get into
a deep dive and really startdigging into Paul's letter
through that lens, through thatlens.
Because I never realized howgritty and dangerous and just
(11:31):
how unsafe it was like thethreat of fire, and then to hit
to know that fire swept throughit and nearly consumed half of
Rome. It's just, wow, yeah, youknow. And there, there weren't
firemen or fire prevention or,you know, and I just take that
(11:54):
for granted. Yeah, there's analarm that when smoke is
somewhere, it's going to go off,and that tells me to get out of
the building, but they didn'thave that. And these people
lived on the fifth floor andworried about that constantly,
yeah, right.
And there's no electricity, no,yeah. So all their energy for
heating, for lighting, for heat,was all fire, yeah. And
(12:16):
everything they lived in wasextremely flammable, and so it's
just, it's something we take, wekind of take for granted. So on
a question along that note thatthat week is the longest reading
as far as the content in theBible app, because Chapter Two
just throws so much stuff outthere, yeah, that a lot of
people aren't aware of. Like, Ikind of wonder, was it too much?
(12:36):
Because as far as the Bible appwent, I mean, there was a ton of
stuff in the Bible app because Iput more than I figured people
are actually going to read,yeah, people are curious about
parts. There's places to go intodifferent websites to different
places to get more information.
I just wonder, was it, was ittoo much, or was it like, I
mean, I want to be people thinkthey have to sit there for two
hours to go through all of it,but it was a
(12:57):
lot. Well, our conversationrevolved around, you know, the
historical data and what wasgoing on at that time. And so we
honestly did not get into a lotof what was in the Bible app,
but it, we got through it,yeah, cuz there's, there's,
(13:17):
there's a lot, a ton of stuff inthere. So I don't want to be
overwhelming, but there's just,there's just so much you can
almost do, like a four weekseries on Chapter Two,
reflecting back to the socialissues of today. Yeah, right?
You know, it's like, Well,nothing's changed, yeah, 2000
years, right? Yeah, just sittingin it. What, I think that's
(13:37):
important part about why, youknow, we look at a Sunday
morning in a 30 minute message,why we can't drill down for an
hour in a Bible study, right?
People like, I'm just yearningfor that deeper study. And I'm
like, Yeah, that's really hardon a Sunday. It's really hard to
take apart a whole scripture.
And people like, when we weremoving through this past Sunday,
we did four verses, right? So wedid, you know, Romans five, walk
them through that, and threeverses there, and then jump to
(13:59):
Romans eight and pull themforward a little bit in Romans,
right? And kind of got throughthere. Got through there. But,
you know, at some comments andbe like, Oh, that was, you know,
really good. I love kind of thatbreakdown of the different words
and, like, I just want more ofthat on Sunday. I was like,
that's wonderful. But, like, Icould preach for six weeks on
Romans, one, five verses, oneand two, oh, yeah. Like, I could
do that, right? I said, butthat's why we have the life
groups, that's why we have Biblestudy is so that we can drill
(14:22):
down in adifferent way. You know, people
crave that because it's hard.
It's hard to read on your own,because there's stuff that, if
you don't, if you're not studiedthe context, it's hard to
understand it. It's also hardbecause, like, that's not really
what Sunday's for. And Sunday'sto proclaim the good news, and
we do it through readingdifferent places, like in
Romans, to show them. You knowwhat the good news is, what it's
saying. You know, to us, butit's no we.
(14:44):
We have a responsibility to goand deep dive by ourselves,
because that's where thepersonal relationship with God
comes from. Yeah, you can't makeme have a relationship with God.
I have to pursue. Do thatrelationship with God,
that's right, that's right. Andwe're going to talk about that.
Well, that's important. I mean,one of the words we're going to
(15:06):
talk about today on this podcastis reconciliation, right? And
what is this relationship thatwith God that we have? And so
we're going to break it open,but before we do that, we're
going to sing our jingle. Yes, Iremember the jingle, right? Are
you guys? I know Tom, youdeserve me like he's gonna
forget again. I'm not gonnaforget again. We're gonna we're
gonna, we're gonna say thisnumber, and you can call
Roseanne at any time. And itgoes like this, 479-367-2285,
(15:29):
neighborhood church. All right.
Welcome now to the TNC podcast.
We're gonna be in Romans chapterfive, verses one and two, and
then we're gonna jump to 11. SoRoseanne, if you could read
verse one, Tom, if you couldread verse two, and then when we
move into verse 11, I'll closeus on that also. So Roseanne,
would you mind starting us offin Romans chapter
(15:51):
five? Therefore, since we arejustified by faith, we have
peace with God through our LordJesus Christ.
And then Continuing in versetwo, through whom we have
obtained access to this grace inwhich we stand and we boast in
our hope of sharing the glory ofGod,
(16:12):
we are going to live there for ahot second. And I want to jump
back into verse one. Therefore,since we are justified by faith,
we have peace with God throughour Lord Jesus Christ. So
there's a lot to unpack in thatstatement, and I want to
concentrate on the word peace,but I just want to give you the
kind of the formulaic nature ofthis verse. Therefore says, Hey,
we want you to read somethingthat's happening before this.
(16:35):
Therefore says, Hey, because ofall the things we've already
talked about. Therefore, sowhenever you read that in
Scripture and hear that youshould go back and read a little
bit about what's happeningbefore, and what's happening
before is God's promise realizedthrough faith. For the promise,
then this is back in verse 13 ofchapter four, for the promise
that he would inherit the worlddid not come to Abraham or to
his descendants through the law,but through the righteousness of
(16:57):
faith. Right? So what we'resaying is that okay, if you're
going to take faith forward, andthis is going to be your
relationship to God, thereforethese things happen. So if we
take that relationship to faith,let's hear it again. Therefore,
since we are justified by faith,hey, we just talked about all
these things, we're justified byin faith. Therefore, since we're
justified by faith, we now havepeace with God. So here's the
(17:18):
equation. We're justified byfaith, we have peace with God
now, justified by faith says,what? That's a big theological
language, right? The doctrine ofjustification, right? Like, what
does it mean to be justified byfaith? And I talked about this
on Sunday, justification trulymeans to have an approval from
(17:38):
God, right? This is divineapproval justified by God. So
this is God imparting faith tous. We are justified by faith.
We have right relationship andapproval from God by faith,
through faith, for faith. Andthen here's where it leads to we
lead that now leads us to havepeace with God. So for those of
us who sit in faith, right, asthree here, right? I think
(17:59):
there's a part of this equationwhere those who are discovering
Christ for the first time arediscovering the first part of
this being justified by faith,not by works, right, not by law,
not by these other things thatare happening, but by faith. And
they're discovering that part ofthe relationship to get to the
peace. Now if we're justified byfaith sitting here, it means
that at some level, weunderstand the nature of peace.
(18:19):
So my question to you all isthat, if we are justified by
faith, what do you understandabout peace in your life, where
do you have it, and where do younot have it? And so I would love
to hear where you guys are atwith peace, you
know, it reminds me of some ofthe stuff, like, historically,
you see, like Luke, like Lutherstory, like, you know, he, he
(18:40):
was a teacher, right? He hadgone to school to, you know, was
in it was a monk already, but hewasn't at peace with God until
he had read the gospel. And soit's like for me as a kid,
reading the Bible, trying tofigure it out. Of course, you
start at a book, at thebeginning of the book, and you
start reading all these do's anddon'ts. I'm like, oh, oh, geez.
And I didn't really have peacewith it until I got to better
(19:03):
understanding as I got older. Ofthe back of the book, you know,
of the gospel message in it,because it does take all the
pressure off of us. I think ofpeace. I think of with no
pressure, no anxiety, no fear.
And so it doesn't mean there'sno fear of death, but there's
like no fear of what comesafter. Yeah, right. You know
that this idea that, you know,that's something in my, one
thing in my life, I don't haveto, I don't have to worry about,
(19:25):
you know, people think aboutpeace like a lack of war, or
peace, you know, a lack offighting, but really it's, we're
talking about like a lack ofconsequence, you know, which
maybe is the closest somebodycan understand in our culture as
maybe somebody who's committed acrime but then gotten pardoned,
yeah, you know, or wrongedsomebody important to them and
(19:46):
was forgiven, there's thatmoment where, oh, okay, I'm not
rejected, I'm yeah. So feelingthat like, where to find it in
my life. I mean, I think we finddifferent kinds of peace with
different relations.
Relationships, yeah, you know.
And I think it's important to tofight for peace in
relationships. But coming tochurch, for some reason, is
(20:08):
typically very peaceful to me,yeah, and especially for
something like evening services,a little darker outside, it's
the mood, right? It's just amood, but just knowing that I'm
coming not to try to fulfillsomething, not not to try to
achieve something, not to checka box, to hold my place, but
just to know that that I'menough, just as I am. Yeah, you
(20:33):
know. And as far as feelingpeace around me, man, it's
either out in the middle of thewoods or at night under a clear
sky, yeah, Sky, we can look upat all these stars. I'm like, of
all that vacuum of space and thecold and all that stuff, like,
God has put me where I need tobe to be able to sit here and be
warm and breathe air and begrounded in the earth.
(20:56):
Has that always been your samepiece? Like, would you say that?
Like, that's you've grown intothat?
Yeah, totally, because I didn'tunderstand as a kid enough about
it to be able to realize what itwas, yeah, you know. And I
think, for, like, for theChristian, if all you read is
the New Testament, and you haveno idea what's in the law, yeah,
you don't know what you have,you know. Just like if, if
(21:19):
somebody says, I forgive you,but you have no idea what
they're talking about and whatyou did wrong. You can't
appreciate what you have. Yeah,right. And I think that
appreciation comes as we startto get older. We do more study,
we start to realize that,because we always want to
remember ourselves in mostpositive light, yep, and we're
going to find somebody worsethan us to compare ourselves to,
to make us feel better, butuntil we really realize that how
(21:42):
far we missed the mark andeverything, and that it's okay
anyway. And I think that takes acertain amount of maturity,
yeah, to, you know, to get tothat point. So yeah, very, like,
in my teenage years, is verymuch about trying to achieve.
Yeah, we didn't seek peace. Imean, we didn't know, I would
even make a venture to say, wedidn't know what piece was.
No, I had no interest in it,which is because I didn't know
(22:02):
what it was, seekingachievement, but that's an empty
promise, right? There's alwayssomebody faster, stronger,
better, you know, there's no,you know, it gets into like
Ecclesiastes, you know, that's,it's a waste of time. It's a
good to try to achieve to anextent, but not to find,
not to find, I think you justsaid something kind of helping
(22:23):
to define peace is that lack ofpeace is believing in an empty
promise, right? There's no wayto find peace in an empty
promise. The only place we canfind peace is in the promise of
the kingdom.
And you can't try to understandit like book level, because
it's, you know, Scripture tellsus it's a peace beyond
understanding, yeah, that it'sjust like, Finally, uh oh, yeah,
(22:46):
okay,I'm here. It's just, yeah. What
about you, Roseanne? Where doyou find peace in your life? And
has it always been the same?
I don't think it's always beenthe same. I don't think I was on
an achievement to directory, towhatever that is, a trajectory,
to director. Trajectory.
(23:10):
I could see that's great. I loveit for some reason. I want to
hang here for a second andreally get it, but I don't want
to hang there. Also. That'sgood. But
having peace isn't necessarily alack of tension, but it's a,
(23:32):
it's a it's an understandingthat and an acceptance, that I'm
accepted. I can remember timesitting in church, and I think
that is one place I find peace,absolutely, um, but also when my
sisters and I are trying tostart a habit of walking every
(23:55):
Sunday afternoon. So we wentagain this past Sunday, but just
being out in nature, yeah, andand having fun, being joking
around, nature is where I findpeace. And in prayer, yeah, I
(24:17):
feel like I'm a prayer warrior.
So I find peace in that Ialways, even in the turmoil that
has happened in our world. Mostrecently, I've I pray, and I
find that God's got it, yeah,and we just give it over to him,
he'll take care of it. Yeah. Idon't have to worry about it. I
(24:37):
don't have to worry aboutretribution, or, Oh,
I said that, yeah, you got thatone, right?
But it's just the I don't haveto worry about it. God's got it,
yeah, yeah. I think there's abeautiful nature of, I mean,
when you give yourself over tothe promise, right? I mean, if
we're nesting this in thepromise of the kingdom, when you
finally give yourself over tothat, you realize that God does
(24:59):
have. It, right? And thatprovides a sense of peace that
you cannot get from this world,right? We can try so many
things, and that was part of themessage on Sunday. I said, you
cannot have peace withoutrelationship with God, and you
can seek it. But I said, andyes, you might feel it, but it's
fleeting. It withers and itfades, right? And as quickly as
you have it is as quick as itgoes away, because it's not a
sustaining peace, right? It's aneverlasting peace, right? It's
(25:22):
not a gift from God in thispiece. It's a worldly peace. And
I think so many of us craveworldly peace, right? We crave
just a freeness from thedistraction, right? I think
that's why sitting out among thestars you find this sense of
contemplative peace, yeah?
Because that peace never comesto being a crowd of people. No,
yeah, because you can't trust acrowd of people, yeah, right,
(25:42):
yeah, absolutely. But you cantrust God people flip flop,
yeah, you know. But God's thesame, always forever.
Mm, hmm, yeah. I've been findingpeace by sitting out in the my
truck bed. And I'll put somecushions out there, and I'll
just stare up at the stars,right? And kind of that like
evening dusk, right? And I'lljust kind of look and there's a
humbleness, and there's like, myplace in the in the creation,
(26:05):
you know, like kind of spacethat I sit in and and it's just,
it's just peaceful, right? Ijust allow myself to be in the
breeze, right? And to feel thatI experienced the same thing on
the trails when, when I'm wayout on the trails, and I'm just
in it, and then a breeze comesalong, Oh, I get so excited
because I'm like, it's justpeace to me, right? It's just
peace of this kind of, you know,being free from the distractions
(26:26):
of the world that would distractus from our relationship with
God, and entering fully intorelationship with God and being
part of that. I love the soundof the wind blowing through
leaves and branches right middleof the woods. It's great. It's
just, it's, that's neat.
Yeah, and the other place I findpieces in a Steam Sauna. So
let's just put that out there.
Oh, gosh, like, a really hot,120 130 degree Steam Sauna with
a little bit of eucalyptus inthe steam. Oh, I tell you right
(26:50):
now, like, when I go to like,hey, what's rest and recovery a
Steam Sauna with Eucalyptus likethat, that's my jam. I can spend
all day in there. And the lasttime was in when I spent like,
45 minutes to an hour in there.
Don't recommend that definitelycame out. Sure, is probably a
labor. Yeah, yeah, there's Idefinitely blew whatever time
frame was supposed to be inthere seeking my worldly peace,
(27:12):
and got smited by the sauna. Iswhat happened. I walked out as
like, Ooh, I'm a little dizzy. Idon't I don't feel good. So here
we go. So, I mean, I think thisis important. So one, we've been
justified by faith, we havepeace with God. Here's the next
part of that equation. We havepeace with God through our Lord
Jesus Christ, right? So I thinkthey're extending this
(27:32):
relationship with God, right?
Justified by faith, we havepeace with God through Jesus
Christ. This is where ourrelationship quotient comes in
about how we have this peace. Itcan only be through Jesus Christ
that we have this peace, becauseJesus Christ came for the
promise of the kingdom. And so Iwas starting to relate this all
together on Sunday, just talkingthrough what it means that we
have to have relationship withGod in order to find peace. And
(27:53):
then if you move into verse two,it says we've obtained access to
this grace, which is from JesusChrist, right? The word made
flesh. We have this grace towhich we stand and we boast in
the hope of sharing the glory ofGod. So it's interesting, this
boast language is a very proudlanguage, and I struggle
whenever there's the word boastin Scripture to say about our
(28:17):
relationship with God.
Well, then we were thinkingabout a modern, yeah, a modern
usage of how we use that wordright? Isn't always how what the
word that's in here meanscorrect. So, I mean this the
NRSV that I'm looking at. I meanthat came out in like, 1950
Yeah, correct. So, and we don'tuse the word boast, right? Like,
(28:37):
what? What's a common word thatwe'd use instead of boast, brag,
brag, oh, brag, proud, right?
Tooting your own horn,egotistical, Yeah, cuz it's all
about self. It is 100% but hereboast is about not about self,
but about God. That's correct,and it's interesting. Some some
translations the I looked it upearlier, but I had, I got a note
(29:00):
in the margin of my Bible that Imade, have no idea one when
Calco, Calco meta, and is theform of it that's in here. And a
lot of translations render thatas rejoice.
Oh, interesting, because it canbe in the in place of the word
boast,yeah. Oh, because it could be.
You know, we talked about thisearlier. It's like the idea of a
(29:21):
stiff, upright neck, as opposedto, like, hanging your head, you
know, it's your head held high.
So it's like, it's a certainamount of being proud, but not
of self, of God, of assurance inGod, and of boasting, but it's
exalting or rejoicing. Andthat's, you know. So, I mean,
(29:44):
like, Well, those are all verydifferent words in English, but
it's idea is about, I thinkabout, like, glorying. I saw one
place where it said it's aboutboasting in God. Is glory in God
or giving glory to God? So it'snot like a a self boast. Mm,
hmm. Like when the word getsused today. It's all about
giving the glory to God,rejoicing in the glory of God.
Yeah, was not anything that wedid, right? It's what God gave
(30:08):
us, and we walk with pride inthe fact that we are reconciled
to God and can leave eternitywith Him. Mm, hmm. Now that's
something to walk in pride of.
And this is a writing of Lutherthat also got misunderstood and
kind of weaponized against himwhen he says sin boldly. That
came from a letter he wrote tohis barber, who was so concerned
(30:31):
that he was doing things wrongand how he was praising God and
studying the Bible that he wasgoing to be condemned, because
there was a lot of that at thattime right. And so Luther and
his quippines writes in thisletter because he says, I'm, you
know, such a sinner. He said,You are indeed, when he's like,
a sinner of the I can't rememberthe exact wording, but like, Oh,
(30:53):
you are definitely, like thesupreme sinner. Yeah, right.
Which is like, Oh, that's notsure. It's not reassuring, yeah,
yeah. He said, But sin boldlyand believe even more boldly in
the grace of God revealed to youin Jesus Christ. Yeah, you know,
be, be bold in your sin. Youcan, I know I'm a sinner, but
you can still stand with yourwith your head held up upright,
(31:17):
knowing that you've been giventhis gift from God. So you're,
you know, you're okay. It's likea relief of shame. Yeah, you
know, shame and fear ofconsequences. That's kind of
what this reminds me of.
But I think, in order, I mean,if I'm putting this, this
formulaic equation together, itcomes in verses one and two, I
(31:37):
really think that in order toexperience the space where we
can boast, right in the glory ofyou know, our relationship with
Jesus Christ, we have to havepeace with God first, because
peace doesn't allow us to boastbeyond being humble, right, in
our relationship with God. Ithink when I think of an earthly
boasting and being proud andegotistical, right? You can
always hear it when someone'sreally proud of what they do,
and they tell you they're proudof what they do and how good
(31:59):
they are at what they do and howthey're the only person can do
what they it always comes acrossyucky.
Every time I hear it. I'm like,I'm like, do you hear yourself?
Like, can you hear yourselfspeaking this? Because the rest
of the people in the room hearyou speaking of this way, and
it's just like, man, like, I'mnever the expert in the room.
Like, let's just be honest.
Like, there is always going tobe more people. And the way I
humble myself is like, I lovethe neighborhood, I love our
campus, I love little neighbors,preschool. I love that we have
(32:21):
rentals, and I love that we havea mission, kitchen, food
trailer. Do you know what's beendone before? All of that? We are
not the first church to do anysingle thing that we have done
here right now. Mind you, Ithink we have unique expression
in it. I think it's great forus, right? But there are
churches 50 years ago that weredoing this kind of stuff, right?
And so when I look at like, oh,the neighborhood is like, Humble
(32:42):
thyself, because you were notthe first. It just took you
longer to get there because youtried to do it by yourself, you
know, like, and so I look atthis, and I'm like, man, we need
peace with God in order to getto this boasting with God.
Yes, I think we it's one thingto be happy about what we've
achieved, and that's that's agood thing, but it's the the
boasting, the glorifying, beingsent to, you know, going to, God
(33:05):
is the difference.
So I'm gonna, I'm gonna takethat statement for a second,
because it's very interestinghow you said it, and I'm just
gonna unpack it for one secondbecause I think there's a little
nuance. You said. It'sinteresting about boasting and
what we've achieved, right? Andyou have this achievement
language, right? And I thinkthat's, that's where I get stuck
when I think about the wordboast, is because it makes me
think of achievements, right?
And what we've done with God.
(33:27):
And then I go back to thisjustified by faith, and I'm
like, Oh, they remove theachievement right away. Like,
it's like, you can't achievewithout relationship with God.
You can't achieve without beingjustified by God's faithfulness.
That temptation away. It's like,right away it says, like, Hey,
if you want peace, you'rejustified by faith. Like, if you
want peace, you're not anachievement oriented person. And
(33:48):
then it just leavesgratefulness, beautiful
statement, beautiful statement,love. Gratefulness, right? Like,
that's a huge identity of whatwe needed to do. And so let's,
let's turn over into verse 11,and kind of take a look through
this. So this is the same.
Chapter five results ofjustification, and then verse 11
says this. But more than that,we even boast. Let's go back
into that word, or rejoice, orrejoice in God, through our
(34:10):
Lord, Jesus Christ, through whomwe have now received
reconciliation. Now thisreconciliation word I
concentrated on a lot, andhere's where I went into my
point in the message I said, youcannot have peace with God
without a relationship with God,right? You have to have
relationship with God, and youcan't have a relationship with
God without reconciliation toGod. AKA, we don't start in the
(34:33):
space where we are this perfectcreature that's perfectly
aligned with God. No Godreconciled God's self to us
through Jesus Christ, sacrificeright and crucifixion and
resurrection right with thepromise of the kingdom, you have
to have this relationship ofreconciliation. And where I went
is that if you want to findpeace with people in your life,
(34:53):
and you want to desire this andhave that, you have to be
reconciled to the people in yourlife, which, whoo. That's a
tough statement, because I askedthe church to raise their hand
about how many people that needreconciliation? And I mean, you
got 75% of people raise theirhand, going, I need
reconciliation with some peoplein my life, and some people are
just stubborn and unwilling. Oh,yeah, reconcile. And I
said, How many of you don't evenhave the opportunity to
(35:15):
reconcile a relationship in yourlife? And like, 50% of those
people hold up their hands,right? Like, I ain't never going
back to that. Like you're notasking me to go back and talk to
that relationship, which is, Ithink, true, right? I don't want
to put anyone in harm's way. Sohow do you Here's a great
question for our podcast hosttoday. How do you reconcile a
relationship that you don't haveaccess to anymore?
Well, I think you can be you canreconcile it without being in
(35:36):
it. Okay, talk. Say more,because sometimes there is a
benefit to healthy boundaries.
Oh, you know, especially ifthere's a matter of physical
danger, emotional abuse, youknow, stuff like that. And it
kind of gets goes back toforgiveness, where you can let
go of anger with somebody,forgive them, but still maintain
that protective barrier thatsays that I'm not going to allow
(36:01):
myself to be harmed by thisperson again, right? And so
that's part of our reconcilingour relationship, because our
purpose is to to love ourneighbor. Yep, it doesn't
necessarily mean getting in thecage of the lion. Yeah, you
know, I can. I can love them,which you know, and choose to to
not hate, which is tough to do,but that mean you have to like
(36:22):
them, and that mean you have tospend a bunch of time with them.
But so reconciling with themdoesn't mean you have to. It's
like reconciling an account onceit's closed before you close it,
yeah, closing out the books, youcan reconcile that reaction,
that relationship at a pointwhere you can say, I forgive
you, but for my own safety or myown mental health, I'm not ever
(36:45):
going to talk to you again.
Yeah, and that can be okay, aslong as it's not motivated from
hate, if, like, you know, youknow, screw you, I'm not going
to talk to you again. Yeah,that's not reconciled. Yeah, no,
yeah. Say that you know, hey, Iforgive you, but I cannot
continue in this relationship.
And you can, you can bereconciled. Yeah, right now,
reconciling it and being in it.
(37:06):
That case, both people have tobe willing to record, yeah,
true, true, which I think iseven harder, yeah, how to do
that? That's the trick. Andluckily, God has inspired many
wonderful personal counselors,therapists, stuff like that, to
help people work through that.
Because, man, that can becomplicated.
That's super complicated. Andwhat about you? Roseanne, right,
what do you think about can youreconcile with people if you
(37:28):
don't have access to thosepeople anymore, how would you
reconcile to them?
I think just as God forgave methrough Jesus Christ, yeah, I
can forgive them. Mm, hmm. Andbut again, like Tom said, I
don't have to allow them to pushmy boundaries. Yeah, right. I
(37:49):
just move on. Mm, hmm.
I think there's a part offorgiveness and leaning that
into God, and I think that'spart of where we where I took
this message. But I think theother part of this too is that
it's not only the forgiveness,right? I think forgiveness is a
paramount side of thatrelationship. I think there's
another side that's also prayingfor them, right? Not only are we
(38:10):
forgiving someone, but imaginethe forgiveness aspect into then
asking God to fill their lifewith the Spirit, for them to be
spirit led for their life to,you know, inspire other people
and for them to share a messageof their experience with God
like now, not only we'reforgiving someone, we're saying,
Hey, God, now use them in thestory of the kingdom on earth to
lead people to the kingdom ofheaven. I think that transition
(38:32):
is reconciliation, right? Thatthat's reconciliation not to us,
because that's not who we'retrying to reconcile to. We're
trying to reconcile people toGod, right? And if we need to do
that, we first need to reconcileourselves to God, which is the
prayer of forgiveness. It is theprayer of I'm going to pray over
you and see that God workswonders in your ways, and then
to see that reconciliation comethrough for them, also in
another space. So I thinkthere's a really neat space
(38:54):
where we see this reconciliationas an identity of who we are as
Christians and how to live thatas a deeper relationship with
our loved ones and ones we usedto love. I mean, what's the best
way to say that? Right friendsthat we don't have anymore? I
think that profound partner isthat we've received
reconciliation. And if I thinkof that word, receive, that's
(39:18):
where I think God is calling usto do with the people in our
lives too. They need to receivereconciliation. They might not
seek it, they might not want it,but they need to receive
reconciliation. And that needsto happen from us. But man, a
lot of people in relationshipsthat are hard to reconcile,
right? Do you guys experiencethat too? Do you have
relationships in your life thatare still hard to reconcile?
(39:40):
I'm sure first marriage, yeah,that was hard. Yeah,
I can't think of anything else,okay, well, look at you having
great relationships.
Congratulations. No boast, boastin the Lord.
Just chemo. I don't know aboutthat, but yeah. That was yeah,
(40:04):
that was it, yeah, yeah. I thinkwe all have probably more than
we realize. I can't. I'm tryingto think of a good example right
now. But again, it goes to theback of us wanting to, you know,
always paint ourselves in ourown Yeah, in the best possible
light. It's kind of like a self,self defense kind of thing. And
sometimes we might not realizewe need to reconcile ourselves
to somebody because, you know,people want to be polite, and
(40:24):
sometimes you make them mad theydon't tell you until it hits
like a boiling point. Yeah, youknow. And I, I see that a lot,
when people are completelyshocked that they're getting
arrested because of somethingthey've done to somebody else,
yeah? Then I'm like, You shouldnot be surprised about this.
Yeah, yeah. This is the momentthat, yeah. Oh, and there's
family members I don't see veryoften. There's friends that you
know, people I was friends within high school that have taken a
(40:46):
different direction in life,where I'm like, I just need to
stay away from that. And so Idon't know if it needs
reconciliation necessarily, butyeah, that's interesting to
think about.
Yeah, right? And I think that'swhere people landed on Sunday,
right? And it's what my hopewas, is that we would just think
about the relationships thatwe've maybe dismissed
(41:07):
reconciliation. It's just notbeen something we've ever sought
out, or something that weequated reconciliation with
presence, right? And we don'tneed to make that equation
right, like reconciliation isbefore God, and if people
receive reconciliation, thatmeans that, yeah, we've
reconciled ourselves toGod and therefore to others,
yeah, because it's notnecessarily going back to the
way it wasbefore. That's right, that's
right. And that was a big thingI said on Sundays that that's
(41:28):
not how we see this, right? AndI said, and if you want
reconciliation, you can onlyhave reconciliation through the
hope and the promise of JesusChrist. And what I was saying is
that it's not about going backin the relationship. It's about
living into the hope, livinginto the hope that there is a
kingdom where we do desire thateveryone would be there with
their relationship with God, butwe have to reconcile in order to
do that. It's the same reasonJesus Christ came for us, for
(41:50):
the sake of the world, right?
And then God gave His Only Sonso that we are reconciled to
God, right? That there was thisplan for the kingdom for all of
us and and that's what we'releaning into in the next
message. The next message isgoing to be salvation for all.
And it's interesting, because aswe were crafting the series, and
salvation for all came up inseminary. You guys remember Rob
(42:12):
Bell? You guys remember RobBell, Michigan pastor. Okay, so
he was big in like, the 2000sright? We brought NUMA series,
different things like this,everything else going on, and
wrote a book called Love wins.
And this book was aboutsalvation for all that. In the
end, love wins, right? And so mybuddy in seminary was doing a
(42:32):
book study on this book, and oneof his final papers in seminary
on this, love wins, right? Thiskind of theology of it's always
ends with love, right? Type ofdeal. And so he got excited that
Rob Bell was just published hisbook. And so he goes, Hey, would
you come up to the first churchservice, you know, where, after
he published his book, he'sgoing to talk about his book
being published, right? And Iwas like, Oh, that would be
(42:54):
awesome, you know? I was like,Let's travel up. So we drove up
to Michigan to go attend theservice. Service is good. It's
in the round, right? It's agreat church, right? We walk in,
things are going cool. It'sgoing to be neat to listen to
this and everything else likethat, and and then. But I don't,
I don't see pastor Rob, I don't,I don't see him in the church
and everything. I was like, oh,maybe, maybe he's not, he like,
maybe he's not here, and wemissed it, and whatever else is
(43:16):
happening, right? And then allof a sudden, the music guy's
down. It's time for the message,and they do, like a book intro
thing right on the screen. Andthen all of a sudden, here comes
pastor Rob walking down theaisle with two bodyguards right
for the center of the church,right? And the bodyguards were
there. People can see the lookon the podcast. Look you give me
is exactly like I was like,what's happening, like, what's
(43:38):
going on, and he had protectionbecause of threats he'd
received, because of thenarrative that love wins, right?
And that love and Jesus is loveis for all. And so he preached
with these two bodyguards downon the stage, right? And I
expected it to be much more liketraditional church presence,
which was like, hey, you'll beon the lobby afterwards. You can
talk with them different thingslike that, right? Nope. He got
done with the message, and himand him and his bodyguards
(44:00):
walked off the stage and neversaw him again. Like, that was
it. And I was like, I don't knowif this is the best reality of
talking about like, love wins. Iwas like, it was this whole
takeaway. I was like, I here. Weare fear one, yeah, yeah, it's
crazy. So we're gonna be talkingabout this identity of Love
wins. Tom, what's going on nextin the Bible study
(44:22):
group? So we're coming up onWednesday. So I'm working, I'll
be working on that today, yeah,building it out for next
week. Wait, you said Wednesday.
I mean, people just think it'sthe day of the week. What do you
mean by Wednesday?
Well, that's what it's and Idon't remember which the because
the Roman god is so muchdifferent in how we go from
Roman to Norse, yeah, allthrough. So I don't remember
(44:43):
what the Roman god is for thisweek. Okay, I'll be figuring
that out, going back and rereviewing that chapter, yeah,
after podcast today and startbuilding it out.
Great. That's awesome, yeah? Sothat's good. That part of got
the, not the podcast, but thelife groups continue for what?
Six weeks. This is kind of howthe studies draw. It's us. Well,
there's the intro week, and thenthere's seven weeks for Monday,
(45:04):
Monday through Sunday, great.
And so it's total eight weeks.
There's 10 weeks in the timeperiod that we have the life
groups running, because somewhile being every other some
will be every week. And so ifyou're doing every week, you'll
hit a couple weeks early at theend. So it's a total, total
eight, eight Bible app. Okay?
(45:26):
Trees will go out, includingthe, you know, the intro, and
then Monday, Tuesday. So there'sthree in there right now. Yeah,
great. And the fourth one willbe building today, and we'll go
live next Tuesday.
Great. That's awesome. So that'sa big plug for life groups here
at the church, we're in thestudy on Romans. We're talking
about salvation for all nextweek, and so we're going to
continue this study on RomansAnd all
God's people said, Amen. You.
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