July 16, 2025 • 52 mins
Join Pastor Joe Liles and the team from Neighborhood Church as open up about the transformative power of faith, no matter how small.
In this podcast, The Neighborhood Chuch Staff explores how even the tiniest seed of trust can move mountains in your life. Through personal stories, biblical insights, and raw, honest conversations, "Mountain Movers" reveals how ordinary people navigate life's challenges by embracing faith in extraordinary ways.
Whether you're struggling with doubt, facing seemingly insurmountable obstacles, or simply seeking to deepen your spiritual journey, this podcast will inspire you to see how small acts of faith can lead to remarkable transformations.
Hopefully, the stories you hear from the staff of The Neighborhood Church challenge you, comfort you, and motivate you as you learn to trust God's plan, even when the path seems unclear.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pastor Joe Liles (00:00):
Okay, all right. Welcome to the TNC
(00:04):
podcast, recorded in studio atthe worship center in the
neighborhood Church, which we'veconverted into a podcast studio
every single week. And what doesthat mean that we convert it
into a podcast studio? I don'tthink people really have an
identity of what it means thatwe convert this into a
Tom Helmich (00:18):
podcast studio. We move more furniture than a
moving company.
Pastor Joe Liles (00:21):
This is very true. I do agree that Tom,
what's your, what's yourverbally, but, yeah, yeah, it's
Unknown (00:27):
absolutely,
Pastor Joe Liles (00:29):
it's not exactly well,
Tom Helmich (00:33):
but they never move. They don't move the same
furniture. See,
Pastor Joe Liles (00:36):
Tom has a one touch rule. Have you heard of
the One Touch rule? I love theone time you love doing that
touch rule. I am not a one touchrule person, yeah, and
Tom Helmich (00:43):
easy and UN frustrating and all the things
that are wonderful, yeah? Butwhen you have a multi use space,
unfortunately,
Pastor Joe Liles (00:49):
that requires, yeah, absolutely. It requires
constant movement, which istough on furniture. It's tough
on furniture. We've lost somechairs over the time. Can we
just pause for a moment for thechairs that we've lost? Okay, so
that was good. So we bought somechairs. Yeah, we moved four
chairs every single week. We putsome tables over here. We grab
some coffee we're enjoying.
Bring the Scripture over. We gotsome pillows. Roseanne and I
have some pillows, which iswonderful. Stuff off the stage
(01:10):
to make it we move stuff off thestage in order to make space for
it, and then we move it backafterwards. It's a wonderful
process, and we get everythinggoing. But we are here. We have
four podcast host this morning,live in studio. And to my left
is the wonderful Roseanne Bowen.
Roseanne Bowen, and you're arole here at the neighborhood
church, Director of operation,oh, for the neighborhood church
(01:30):
and little neighbors, littleneighbors, preschool. That's
right, 5050, that's awesome. Andthen to my right, we have the
newly ordained pastor. You
Tom Helmich (01:38):
notice he didn't say wonderful, like only
Roseanne gets the wonderful liftthat up.
Pastor Joe Liles (01:43):
Oh, I just understood a lot more about
Pastor Tom. So Tom is a words ofaffirmation. Guy. I didn't know
that. Now,
Tom Helmich (01:49):
you introduced me for me. Yeah, that's good, Tom,
Pastor Joe Liles (01:53):
Mr. Wonderful.
Next to me is Mr. Wonderful. No.
So yeah, and your role here atthe neighborhood church, Pastor
of care and education,beautiful, and you're two weeks
fresh, yeah? Two weeks fresh,right? Just into the work,
right? This is starting in andlast week your work was getting
your office set up. We typicallydon't have offices at the
neighborhood church, yeah? ButI'm like, I'm Gen X. I don't
(02:14):
work that way. You don't workthat way. I 100% know that this
is very true.
Tom Helmich (02:17):
Putting an office together. I thought we pretty
easy, but I didn't know is goingto require climbing an
Pastor Joe Liles (02:21):
attic space.
Yeah, that's because we had asmall leak in your in your
defined office
Tom Helmich (02:24):
space compensation issue. Uh huh, yeah, maybe I
should have picked a differentYeah, you
Pastor Joe Liles (02:28):
went into it full. How are you feeling in
your defined office now workswhen I get to be in there. Oh,
that's great. Okay, that'sreally wonderful. Okay, great. I
was even in there yesterday whenyou were here. I walked in there
and I was like, Okay, great.
I'll sit down for 10 minutes inhere and get some work done. It
was wonderful. So I thank youfor making an you for making
another
Tevo Christmann (02:43):
office in the neighborhood church. Wait. Other
people are welcome to use youroffice when you're
Pastor Joe Liles (02:47):
not in there.
Well, technically it's theprayer room, so we can't really
say it's his office. It'sactually the prayer room, but
it's Tom's office during
Tom Helmich (02:53):
the week. Yeah, in there. And when I'm not in
there, there's a desk. Yeah?
Desk happened to be available?
Is there?
Pastor Joe Liles (03:00):
Yeah, it sits.
I'll let you guys work that out.
It's great. No, it's great. Andactually worked Wonderful. So
it's good little bit. Anothermulti purpose just found me
right away, though, can I saythis out loud? Out in the I went
in there Sunday morning, and Iwas just getting smart things
done, great, everything else,and then Jess, and then Jess had
appeared in the window, and Iwas like, How did you know?
Because when the lights, yeah,it's like, how did you know,
(03:21):
I've never been in here before,so it was great.
Tom Helmich (03:23):
People go in and sit down and turn the light off,
then they walk right by. Theydon't think it was in there. Oh,
Pastor Joe Liles (03:27):
smart. Okay, that's great. Yeah, that's
wonderful. And it's motionactivated, so then you can't
move. You
Tom Helmich (03:33):
can turn it off, I think, yeah, once you turn it
off, it's just off. Yeah,that's, that's the secret. There
Pastor Joe Liles (03:38):
we go and to Tom's right. Tavo wonderful,
Director of Music here at theneighborhood church, rocking,
awesome. But also, we have abouttwo weeks, about two weeks, and
so there's a transitionhappening, right? So a couple
podcasts left in the bank, yeah,that we got
Tom Helmich (03:54):
going on, like, the missing man formation, oh, we're
Pastor Joe Liles (03:58):
gonna, that's like a Yeah, I was gonna say,
now I gotta say, you know, thepoor one out right type of deal
when you have one. So it's gonnabe here, it's gonna be coffee.
Yeah, that's what we'll do. Wewill leave a seat here in your
honor. Crappy coffee afteryou're gone. It will be crap. A
coffee. What is the coffee? Whatis the coffee
Tevo Christmann (04:14):
that you brewed for us today? Today we have
airship Ethiopian. Ooh, nice.
That's great. What you hadyesterday, Tom, but did you just
switch into airship? I feel likeyou just moved in. No, we've
been doing airship for a longtime. We would love to do Onyx.
They're Ethiopian or geometry. Ilike that blend. Yeah, geometry
is great, but it's so expensive.
Airship is half the price andnot half as good. It's 95% is
(04:39):
good. So
Pastor Joe Liles (04:41):
there you go.
I met a ministry in NorthCarolina called deep time
coffee, and it was a secondchance ministry for those coming
out of prison and wonderfulministry, right? They help do
second chance employer. Theyemploy them. They're brewing,
they're roasting, they're doingall those things. And I. Asked
him in a meeting with all theyouth, as he was explaining this
and brewing his coffee, right? Isaid, Who are you watching?
(05:04):
Right? Like, who's yourinspiration? And he goes, Yeah,
Onyx. And I was like, dang. AndI was like, yeah, they're
they're worldwide, everythingthat people are watching in
there. Oh yeah, smells so good.
Oh man, it's great. So yeah,onyx is fantastic. Airships.
Great. Love airship. What doesthat blend I like? Do you
remember the blend I like fromblend I like from airship? I
don't know. It's like Tonga or,gosh, it's a really fruity
(05:26):
floral
Tevo Christmann (05:27):
so over from the from the coffee shop. Yeah,
okay, I can never find it. Isthat why? Yeah, they don't have
it. They don't have it at whatstore they said I could buy it
in their stores. In their store,you could, okay, do they sell?
But I've never found it.
Tom Helmich (05:40):
Do they have their own, their own storefront? Oh,
yeah, coffee
Tevo Christmann (05:43):
shops. And you buy it, you buy it there. Where
is that at? They
Pastor Joe Liles (05:45):
have coffee shop at Kohler, on the Kohler
trail. They have it NorthBentonville on a on a street.
What's that one called at thepump house? The pump house,
yeah, it's called the pumphouse. Yeah. Have another one
somewhere. It's on Fifth Street,if it's still there, it's the
old one on Fifth Street. It's ona, oh, is it okay? Yeah, yeah,
so,
Tevo Christmann (06:01):
but North side,
Pastor Joe Liles (06:02):
and they just went into mazios, mazzio and
Centerton. It's a combo airshipand Mazzeo, yeah, yeah, yeah. I
don't know it's gonna work, butI'm like, great. I don't know if
it's mazios brewing airship and,like, you can go get coffee
there. I
Tevo Christmann (06:17):
don't know to go Italian. It's like, yeah,
something.
Pastor Joe Liles (06:22):
What's the burger joint? What's the burger
joint? Well, mazios is Pizza,pizza place. No, it's a burger
joint. I might be saying thename wrong, because, like, pizza
and coffee, the smells like, Idon't know that would work.
Yeah, no, no. It's next to,like, USPS on North Walton.
That's, that's the same place.
It's a burger I don't rememberwhat
Tom Helmich (06:39):
neighborhood is this far into bent
Pastor Joe Liles (06:46):
bills I usually come. Oh, okay, great
job. Reasons why we got to keepyou know this is great. Roseanne
just bringing the wisdom, whichis great. So Muse and airship is
what's happening. Still,sandwiches, sandwiches and
coffee. Odd, yeah, it's greatfor them. So let's dig in a
little bit before we dig in.
Though we have our jingle. I
Tevo Christmann (07:05):
want a two. I want 234-793-6722, 85,
neighborhood
Unknown (07:15):
church, church,
Pastor Joe Liles (07:16):
wow, yeah, Tom, sing. How to give her? Tom,
sing. You gotta sing Tom. I did.
That's all I got. That's all yougot. That's your singing voice.
I'm gonna sing next to you onSunday. When this Sunday, we're
gonna
Unknown (07:25):
rock it. It's gonna be
Pastor Joe Liles (07:25):
great. It's easy. I just keep my mouth shut.
Great. It's awesome. Okay, solet's dig in. So we're in a
series right now that we'retalking through, and we're
talking through just kind ofthis mountain movers. And what
it means is, how do we learn totrust God when the mountains in
front of us right, or even whenthe mountains behind us right,
when we're walking up themountain walking down the
mountain, and this is just inhard times in our life. How do
(07:47):
we learn to trust God and and Ithink it's something that we can
all relate to in the series, isthat we can relate to hard times
in our life where we havestruggled to understand where
God is at and how our faith hasan impact and the things that we
are going through. And so we'vebeen moving through the
scenario. A large part of theseries was in response to after
(08:08):
mission, and making sure that inthese times when we devote
ourselves to mission, and wehave this week where we're just
really serving, and it's drawingeverything from us, but also
filling us at the same time,what are, what are? Where are we
breaking down? Where are webreaking down and building our
faith back up? And it's reallyin the lives of youth, but even
in leaders, it happens a lot onthe mission trips. Also leaders
break down one because we'retrying to outlast the youth on
(08:30):
their energy and their nighttimeroutines, and we're out before
them getting things ready. We'reafter them meeting, making sure
everything's going good, andthen coming back. So we heard
the mission stories, which wasgood. I still want to offer up
that, you know, we're prayingfor camp mystic and all those
families the flooding in Texas.
A lot of the reason we switchedinto this series was because of
that. We were going to do a fullcamp series, right? That was
(08:50):
really about the things that welearn at camp. But there was
such a tragedy that happened inTexas that we wanted to give
space for that and make surethat we could pray over that,
and then talk about, really, howdo we trust God again, right?
And the things that we're goingthrough. So this last week was
about small seeds of faith. Itwas about these moments of small
seeds of faith. And when thesesmall seeds of faith become a
reality in your life, that ifyou had the mustard seed size of
(09:13):
faith, you could move mountains,right? So this comes in our
mountain mover series, and and Ilove it because the text that we
use on Sunday, which is a greatillustration, the disciples are
talking they couldn't healdemon, which we're going to read
in a second, that person comesto Jesus, and Jesus has a very
harsh response. Scripturally,it's very harsh. We talked about
that on Sunday, calling them,you know, you of little faith.
(09:35):
How much longer must I be withyou? This is hard. It's tough to
hear from Jesus. Then thedisciples asked, what should be
done different? And he said,well, because of your little
faith, if you had the size of amustard seed of faith, you could
move mountains. What Jesus issaying that your faith is less
than the size of a mustard seed.
So if you had this mustard seedsize of faith, you could have
been able to move mountains. AndI think for us as Christians
(09:59):
coming into. Understand ourrelationship with Jesus. A lot
of us feel that we're veryfaithful, right? We feel that
we're walking into this. Thesewere disciples doing the
ministry of Jesus, walking withJesus, and he said, you have
little faith. And so it's almosta humbling way to look at where
we're really at in our journeywith God, and how we understand
our faith. And so we arebreaking that down on Sunday and
just kind of understanding, whatare these small seeds of faith?
(10:22):
What do they mean in their life?
And I want to take you throughthat text, but before we do, I
want to kind of ask an introquestion, an answer question I
have is this, is that, when wasthere a time in your life that
you had a small seed of faithand it grew to something bigger,
right? Something that youwitnessed in someone but it was
a small act, a small thing inyour faith, and then it grew to
what we'll hear in the text fromMatthew 13, was the greatest of
(10:44):
shrubs, or a mighty tree, and itgrew into something greater as
time came on. So what was thetime in your life when that
happened?
Roseann Bowlin (10:55):
I have a couple of examples. Okay, it's great.
One was, I was teaching teensSunday School at a church we
belong to my husband and I wereteaching this class at the same
time, and I didn't feel like Iwas getting through to these
(11:15):
kids. I I just, you know, but Ikept, kept it up because I had
faith that I was planting seedsin these kids, and years later,
I was working at Walmart, and Iwas a CSM, so I'm watching the
front end. I'm up front, andthis girl comes through, and she
(11:36):
passes me and does a doubletake, and she turns around and
she says, I have to hug you. AndI'm like, okay, yeah. So she
said, you may not remember me,but you are firmly in my memory.
Yeah, you're my Sunday schoolteacher, and it is you talking
through things that made myfaith so firm. That's awesome.
(12:01):
It gives me chills to say that,even to this day, because to get
that affirmation was like, Imust have done something, right?
That's great. So, and that thatwas thrilling for me. And it
came to me at a time when, youknow, I'm just like, going
through the motions, yeah, so,so then I went home and told my
husband about it, and he's like,wow, you know. So, I mean, it
(12:25):
was like, Okay, grab your Bible.
We're going to church. That'sgreat. So it was, it was
wonderful. And the second timeis going through tragedy, kind
of a valley in my life. I hadleft one childcare, went to
another. Was not a good fitthere, left there. Didn't know
(12:46):
what I was going to do. I mean,and the whole way home, I'm
saying, God's got this, God'sgot this, God's got a plan.
God's got a plan. I don't knowwhat it is. This is painful, but
I'm crying and but I'm justconstantly saying that. So then,
so I, I told Walmart I wasworking for Walmart at the time,
(13:13):
hey, I can go full time. Sothey're like, Okay, we'll put
you full time. So that happened.
So with full time, I gotbenefits started the new year,
it was looking good. Then myhusband's accident happened,
(13:34):
then COVID happened, oh, I mean,a few years later, so I was
established full time, thenCOVID hit, and I'm like, I
turned around and I looked atthis, and I went, Man, God, I
don't know why. It surprises meevery time, but you are strong
and mighty, because had not, hadthose things not happened in
(13:56):
God's plan. I'm not sure surewhere I would be, but as an
essential worker during COVID, Ihad a job, yeah, that's great,
and I wasn't sitting at home onunemployment not knowing where
my next step was going to be. Soso i i I felt God's presence
(14:22):
through all of that, but then Istopped and turned around a few
years later and looked and went,Wow, we don't often get to see
God's plan, even when it'spainful. Yeah. So that's where
my wisdom and faith comes fromis that I've had that happen,
(14:46):
and God's been with me. So Iknow God's going to be with me
through all the other stuff,too, and I don't worry so much
Pastor Joe Liles (14:54):
as you say, Wow, no, right now, where did
that seed begin? So I mean thatlast story that you shared, i.
You know, you said you startedin a valley, you know, you were
talking through this. You sawthat, you know, Walmart had a
full time job, and then thehusband accident, like these are
many years. I mean, you wentthrough, yes, I mean, a span of
probably five years in that timethat you were talking right,
from the seed of faith all theway through to, like,
(15:14):
recognizing that God is alwayswith you. Where, where do you
think that initial seed plantedright that led you through kind
of that small faith that ledinto something bigger later on,
Roseann Bowlin (15:24):
probably as a child. I mean when, when I was
about 12 or 13, on Easter, Imight tear up, but it was
Easter, and I remember being atchurch growing up Catholic, and
I felt the Holy Spirit whisperto me, even you, that Jesus died
(15:49):
even for me, and I feel veryinsignificant, yeah,
Pastor Joe Liles (15:54):
yeah, that's powerful, right? Insignificance
and small seed are two differentways to look at that, which is
very interesting, right? BecauseI think we think take things
that are small and sometimesmake them insignificant, and
hearing even you says, Hey,you're not insignificant. You
might feel small in the world,but Jesus sees you for who you
are, yeah, and walks with youthrough all this.
Roseann Bowlin (16:14):
I mean, I never, have, never will be a big,
powerful preacher or but I cando small things.
Pastor Joe Liles (16:22):
Oh, you preached hot yesterday you were
preaching to me that yesterdayyou were talking like you ready
to go. I think you could bringthe word on to Sunday. That'd be
great. So okay, this, Iappreciate you sharing that that
was a vulnerable story. And Ithink that, you know, as we talk
through the different mountainsin our life, I mean, you named
mountains without naming them.
You know, these are importantthings. You
Roseann Bowlin (16:43):
know, sometimes you can be on the mountain and
you're looking around going,life is good, yeah? And we don't
stop to give God that glory,yeah, all the time. And he
deserves that. I mean, thereason we're on the mountain top
and life is good is becauseGod's there with us. What
Pastor Joe Liles (17:03):
about you guys? Do you have some stories
of a small seed of faith thattransformed into something
greater?
Tevo Christmann (17:11):
I think we're talking about seeds. It reminds
me of the still small whisper,right? Or what's the more, the
more accurate translation. Ifyou Does anybody know it's not,
apparently, the word is notwhisper. It's this. It's, I know
(17:32):
you're talking about it meanssilence, yeah, you know, right?
There's still small silence.
It's weird. I mean, it's Hebrew,it's not English, whatever, but
it's there's something in thequiet right that you hear from
God. It's whispers, it's littleflashes. It's glimpses, right?
Just Lewis talks about glimpses.
Talks about when you see a pieceof art that leads you to sort of
(17:56):
transcend, or you hear a pieceof music that leads you to
transcend, or when you eatsomething that you're just you,
that you marvel at, or when yousee someone who's beautiful, or
just these esthetic experiencesare when you spend time in
nature, he calls them glimpses,yeah, of the Divine, right? It's
(18:16):
it. They're not the divineitself, but they hint at
something greater than ourearthly sort of experience. And
so I think, I think God, Godalways speaks to us through
these little things, you know,if, if you're, if you're in in
the mode of listening to God, ifyou're in the phase where you
(18:40):
think God's reaching, and like,you know when that's happening,
because you feel it. You findyourself meditating on on
scripture, find yourselfmeditating on what God might be
like and what God might bedoing. And you find your mind
just sort of gravitating to itnaturally. That's That's God
working in you, you know, andyou start to see God in all
(19:03):
sorts of little things. And, Imean, I would, I was going
through that multiple times, butI just remember sitting down,
getting home from work, and justsitting down to turn the TV on,
and Narnia is on, and I ambawling, oh, you know, yeah. And
I was like, I don't even knowwhy I'm crying, but Aslan is so
cool, or, you know, like, at onepoint, you know, it was, it was
(19:28):
a sort of a nascent era or timeof my life where I'm just, I was
just, like, making big changes,you know, and, you know, like
the Christian perspective wasstarting to take root into into
my life, and I wanted to makesome decisions that that were
founded on Christ as a realityin my life, you know. So at that
(19:52):
point, like the kinds offriendships I'm going to press
into were intentional, you know,they weren't accidental.
Anymore. I. The kinds of valuesthat I hold as non negotiable,
became intentional. This is I'mgoing to accept these things
into parts of my very identity.
You know, I am a Christian as amatter of identity, and so it's
just a transformation andaccepting these things. And part
(20:13):
of that was just having this,this intense hunger for
mentorship, yeah, you know, Ijust craved pastoring. I craved
somebody who would look into mylife and would Gordon Ramsay it,
you know, and I would often justwatch Gordon Ramsay and I'm
(20:36):
like, Man, I wish somebody wouldjust come into, yeah, my life's
kitchen, yeah, right.
Pastor Joe Liles (20:44):
I love how Gordon Ramsay as a person, as a
mentor, I'm like, that's a toughmentor. I guys coming in hot. I
Tevo Christmann (20:49):
needed truth.
Yeah, what I wanted, I want. Iwanted truth. I want somebody to
come into my life and speaktruth, yeah, and call me out on
the things that I was doingwrong, and just just set things
straight, you know. And I gotthat to some degree, and I still
wish we I could have gottensomebody that was just full on.
Gordon Ramsay, you know, I can'tdo a court Gordon Ramsay,
Tom Helmich (21:10):
impression here an image I'll never get out of my
mind. Now, oh, you won't haveYeah,
Tevo Christmann (21:15):
I love watching Gordon Ramsey, in no small part,
for that reason, is justremembering this season of
wanting somebody who's who'smore experienced, more well
versed, you know, has been onthe on the walk longer, and
needing that, needing that, tomodel someone like that. And to
(21:35):
me, I would just watch GordonRamsay, and I was just dream of
having that kind of mentorship.
And so these little things, youknow, like you just, my point
is, when God starts to draw onyour heart, the little things
start to show up everywhere,yeah, you know. And I don't know
that it's possible to trace onebig thing all the way back to
one little thing, yeah, youknow, maybe, maybe it might be
(21:58):
for somebody. But I don't, Idon't know that it is totally
Tom Helmich (22:05):
possible to throw the mustard seed down on the
ground. You're never gonna findit again, right? Yeah, it's so
small. So
Tevo Christmann (22:10):
yeah. I mean, I had, I had other, you know, when
I started coming to faith, partof, part of what led me to start
questioning where my life washeaded in the first place is
looking at friends of mine whohad never left the faith, you
know? And it's like, wait, youjust, like, they just made
better decisions than I did.
They're just, you know what? Imean? It's like, Oh, that. Like,
(22:31):
sure, you withdrew from some ofthe craziness that I dove
headlong into. But honestly,like, I got nothing out of that,
yeah, ultimately, and, you know,just, it just reminds me of the
book of Proverbs, you know, justmake good decisions there.
They're going to be temptations,left and right, but just follow
a good path, the path that yourfather might tell you to go.
(22:54):
Yeah, right. And it'll it'sbetter for you to do that, yeah?
So, just little, like, justlittle interactions with other
people start coming to mind. So,yeah, I mean, the little thing
is just it also reminds me of,like, organizationally, if you
have a business or a church or anonprofit or stuff like that,
often we get together and wedraw up these long strategies,
(23:15):
right awardees, convolutedstrategies, and there's mission,
and there's vision, and there'sall sorts of techniques,
strengths and weaknesses, yeah,you know, threats and
opportunities, all of thesebusiness techniques. But
ultimately, none of that stuffmatters, because the real
vision, the real mission, comesthrough in the little moments.
(23:38):
You know, it's, it's when noone's looking, you really learn
what the true vision is. So, Imean, the little things are just
a reflection of the big things.
Anyway, I'm rambling now.
Pastor Joe Liles (23:50):
So, no, no, I think it's exactly how we kind
of look at, not only churchlife, right, but as you come
through, what I spoke at the endof the message, was that same
thing, and I think I heard itfrom you, is that you start to
make decisions about beingequally yoked with those around
you, right? And you realizethat, yeah, yes, I want seeds of
faith planted in me. That'sbeautiful. It's a beautiful
narrative in the Scripture,right? Like, yes, plant seeds of
(24:12):
faith, but we're also called toplant seeds in others. And I
think at certain times we'retalking about our faith,
specifically, right now, aboutsmall moments of our faith, and
when those grew bigger. But Ireally think that if you want to
be in a field and be sowing andreaping, right what is ever
happening in Christian faith inlife, that you have to be around
those who are walking that path.
We don't do it perfectly.
(24:33):
There's not going to be anygroup that walks it perfectly.
But yeah, you'll have hardmentors in your life. You'll
have friends that are like, Oh,you're making better decisions.
They're not the best decisions,but you are making better
decisions, and you're informingthem by your relationship with
God or relationship to thechurch or through a light. You
know, somewhere in here, you aremaking decisions about this. And
I think that was a challengingmessage point of the message
(24:54):
that I brought at the very tailend of the message, I said, if
you if you don't have friendsthat are challenging you and
your family. Faith, and they'renot asking about your
relationship with God. Youshould question who you're
hanging out with, right? Becauseit might not be the equally
yoked nature of what God'sintending for you. And I think
we get really comfortable in ourfriend groups, and we struggle
on those sometimes, and butthrough those, we should be
challenged, right? We shouldfeel that challenge to be
(25:16):
convicted towards that life ofChrist. And you should
challenge, Oh, absolutely, yeah.
I think friends should speaklife into you, right? They
should speak, as you said, truthinto you, right? And they should
say, Hey, I see you going thisdirection. That might not be the
best direction. I see thishappening over here. That might
not be the best direction oraffirming when, hey, that was
incredible. I love that yousacrificed in this moment. You
did this, and everything elselike that. So what about you?
Tom, when was a moment for asmall seed of faith? I'm
Tom Helmich (25:40):
thinking about that, and I'm not sure, okay,
it's only thing where you kindof look back,
Tevo Christmann (25:44):
only big moments for Tom, big faith. Tom,
Tom Helmich (25:48):
like, if you watch as you watch your kids grow,
which would be anything for youtable to watch, like you're
looking at them, and it's just,it's just who they are, and
until you look back, like apicture of them, like a year
before and notice the change, isthe only time you notice what's
going on, sure. So you reallygot to look back to kind of see
it. You know where you werebefore, how things were in your
life before, to be able toreally know where you you know
(26:10):
where you sit, where you arenow. And so for me, I mean, I, I
was baptized. I remember when Iwas baptized with my uncle, and
grew up in the church the entiretime. And it was just something
that was always, you know,always there. Yeah, they've been
moments that have kind of helpedsolidify things a little bit,
you know, here and there, butnothing, you know, remarkable.
(26:32):
It's just been this kind of, Imean, it's part of my
personality, of that slowconstant, you know, burn in a
certain fashion, you know, like,if you're, like a runner, some
people are sprinters or doextreme stuff, and then you have
the the LSD runners, long, slowdistance, okay? And it's just
consistent, even pace of justkind of continuing along. That's
(26:52):
just kind of what my life hasfelt like. I mean, right after
high school, I got a phase aboutfor about a year, I didn't go to
church because I realized that Icould just sleep, yeah,
Pastor Joe Liles (27:01):
till noon, yeah, yeah, that's great
sleeping. And slept till noon ina millennia, right? I don't
understand it. I literally,yeah, it
Tom Helmich (27:10):
was a thing, and I don't think I really got
anything out of that, either.
But then eventually it's like,there, in that moment where, all
sudden, something's missing alittle bit, yeah, started kind
of getting back into that. Andthen, you know, Amy and I got
married, and we're going alittle bit here and there. We
tried some different churches,because pipe organs are strange
to her, okay, yeah, basing thecampus ministry. Oh, beautiful.
And I, because I was there, wewere dating, I was there at her,
(27:32):
at her baptism.
Pastor Joe Liles (27:34):
Okay, this is a story I want to hear. Maybe
it's time for a great podcaston, like, baptism stories. But,
yeah,
Tom Helmich (27:39):
it was great. It was neat, you know, but looking
at kind of how that that worked,and looking at different
churches, when I really startedkind of looking at what my faith
really wasn't, theology reallywas, yeah, what I believed and
didn't, and we, we eventuallywound up circling back around to
to another Lutheran Church. Mm,great. But it's just been this
kind of slow, consistent thing,you know, like, if you plant a
(27:59):
tree, you know, and you'relooking for the difference, you
really got to look at, you know,big times in the life, like day
one and three years later to seethe differences. Yeah, it's
beautiful. I'm sure when we getdone, like, two or three hours
from now, a great example,you'll
Pastor Joe Liles (28:13):
be like, oh, man, this is the best seat of
faith example. That's
Tevo Christmann (28:16):
great. I think that's kind of what the passage
means, right? You have aninsignificant amount of faith
that leads to a very significantamount of growth, and you can't
always trace it, but,
Tom Helmich (28:27):
and the cool thing about that the mustard seed
thing, so he said, If you hadfaith size of a mustard seed,
you could move mountains, right?
Yeah. None of us can literallymove a mountain, yeah? Which
means, and it's unclear even whyyou would want to, why you want
to, right? Well, yeah, so, buteven then, if our our faith is
less than that mustard seed, butyet it's it was, and it's a gift
to something get not, it's notour own faith, right? So faith
(28:47):
given to us, but that smallamount of faith, so much smaller
than a mustard seed, is stillenough to defeat the temptation
of the devil, yeah, and it'sstill enough to defeat death. So
God only had to give us thattiny little bit to do that.
Tevo Christmann (29:02):
Don't, don't you think that, because Jesus is
what reprimanding people on nothaving, yeah, it's harsh
critique that there is a degreeto which, like Paul says, faith
is a gift from God, right? Sowe're given faith. And I
actually also believe that?
Well, Paul says it so I should,yeah,
Pastor Joe Liles (29:24):
I also believe this part of Scripture, so many
questions.
Tevo Christmann (29:29):
But I do feel, you know, and call me
synergistic, I guess, if youwant, but I do feel that there
is at one point where there hasto be intention to meet that
gift.
Tom Helmich (29:41):
Oh, yeah, it's what you're going to do with it.
Yeah, it's like, if I, if I givesomebody a gift and they just
set it on a shelf and do nothingwith it, you know, then what's
the gift we give them? The giftfor a reason to do something,
you know, and interacting withpeople, people around us, plus
you gotta look at, you know, itwas automatic speakers. It was
written. Into Greek. And theyget the Greek word pistis, which
(30:02):
you can dig into for hours,like, way more than, yeah, was
Jesus really talking aboutfaith? Or he's like, you know,
you have little trust, you know,why do you trust? Because
there's kind of dual meanings inthere. But at some point in
time, you know, we have toeither live into our we either
turn away from our faith, or welive into our faith, right? And
that's about the limit of ourchoice in life. It's like, what
(30:23):
we're gonna what we're gonna todo with it, and where people
would really get into problemsis when there's dissonance
between your faith and yourbeliefs and your actions. Yeah,
you know, it's like givingsomebody a wonderful gift,
valuable gift, and then theyjust kind of like, walk away
from it, don't do anything
Tevo Christmann (30:39):
with it. The fact that matters, that your
actions are your beliefs, right,right? And
Tom Helmich (30:44):
you have time and money for the things that are
important, yeah? Yeah,
Pastor Joe Liles (30:47):
absolutely.
And that's a response that wehave right to that gift, right?
The response of how we walk inthis life, right, and live out
that faith, I think, is what'sbeing referenced here in
Scripture. Exactly. It's a harshcritique, because it's, how are
you living this out? Right? Andspecific response to disciples
not carrying demons because theydidn't pray. So if you imagine
that Jesus understands thisnature and says, You've like,
(31:07):
your response was to pray. Yourresponse was to honor God. Your
response was to say, this isn'tof your power. It's not of your
power. It's never been of yourpower. It's a response from God.
And what you forgot is torespond to God first, you know,
like, so I can see the thefrustration. Yes, he's teaching.
It's
Tom Helmich (31:24):
kind of an innate problem with humanity is we
always want to make it about us.
Oh, absolutely, it's alwaysabout, you know, what, what I
can do, and what, what can beaccredited to me and everything.
Even in faith, we keep comingback to that, yeah, you know,
instead of wanting to give theglory to God and praying, it's
like, well, I have the authorityI do this, and then it doesn't
work. And I wait a minute.
Pastor Joe Liles (31:44):
Yeah, I was talking with someone this week,
and it was a pastor out inWisconsin, actually. So one of
the teams that I'm on is inWisconsin for the gathering,
right? Was talking to pastor inWisconsin, and he says, this
week, he goes, You don'tremember me, do you? And I was
like, I'm sorry. I was like, IThat's my bad, you know, school,
(32:05):
yeah. I was like, I don't hegoes, we met eight years ago.
And I was like, Oh yeah, I feellike, I get a I get a pass, you
know? Like, that's okay, right?
And he goes, we met when you andJess were in Seattle teaching at
a mission Developers Conference.
And I was like, Oh, great. Itotally remember that, because
that was our team. That, becausethat was our 10 year anniversary
trip, right? And I was like, soI have great memories from that
(32:27):
trip. We were that when you wentcamping, that was when we
camping, yeah? And we went, wedid 10 dates for 10 years. So we
did our art date, we did a fooddate, we did Starbucks coffee,
because that's where it camefrom. So we did the Starbucks
date, then we did camping, wedid a sports game, right? We did
movie night date, right? So, Imean, we did 10 dates in 10
(32:47):
days. It was awesome. It was sogood and so, but we taught at
this conference leading up tothis and then spent 10 days in
Ho National Forest, differentthings like that. And so he
goes, Yeah, he goes, You werespeaking then of the
neighborhood. And he goes, andyou were talking about the
vision of this church plant andwhat it's becoming, and how
you're trying to test, you know,models for the future of church
(33:07):
and what this means. And hegoes, and we talked for like, an
hour, you know, when we werethere, and he goes, and you guys
just poured into, like, what isthe future of the church? And he
goes, and you're teaching, youknow, what we were teaching at
the time was the nuts and boltsof church planning. Like, if
you're looking at the future ofchurch, here's what it means to
be sustainable, here's what itmeans to go forward. But go
forward. And he goes, and westill talk about the
neighborhood church today, rightin our church, he goes, and
(33:27):
actually, we model the thingsthat we do off the things that
you're doing. And he goes, Yeah,can we just talk for an, you
know, half hour, and we I canjust ping you with questions,
right? And I was like, I neverknew that conversation on a time
when I was teaching, right,which to me a teaching to many
different people, sitting downfor that one moment, was going
to be an eight year journey to afuture conversation that we had
(33:49):
unexpectedly. Then we spent, youknow, half hour, 45 minutes
talking this week just about thelife of church, and where is
church headed, and how can we dothat in congregations, and what
is the future? And that was asmall seed, and and I don't
think, and this is where I goback to the insignificance a
little bit. I don't think it wasinsignificant at the time,
right? I do feel it wassomething maybe unnoticed at the
(34:11):
time, right? But man, likeinsignificant, such a hard work
for me, because it really takesaway the work of God in that
moment, right? Like we couldnever see the significance of it
in the moment. So it's somethingthat's unnoticed, right? It's
imperceivable, right? It's, it'ssomething that God has planted,
that's God says, hey, 10 yearsfrom now, this is going to be a
(34:32):
dramatic impact. No idea, andlet alone no relationship, no
growth over here. I mean, thatperson that was there was not in
seminary at the time, waslearning, at the time, was
growing, and just got ordained acouple of years ago, just went
like, no idea, right? There's noway that I could have known,
right?
Tom Helmich (34:49):
So it's like God took what was insignificant in
what you were doing and turnedit into something significant
for
Pastor Joe Liles (34:54):
somebody. Yes.
I mean, this goes back to whatyou were saying, right? Tebo,
that if we go through life, you.
Planting these seeds ofinsignificant, small moments, it
should reflect the largervision, like these small moments
should be lived out to where,yeah, we don't know what happens
next, but we know in every smallmoment there's an interaction
that creates something thatmoves forward beyond us. And I
think that's an importantreality in the life of the
(35:16):
church right that leads throughto other people's lives that may
not impact the neighborhoodchurch right? That doesn't have
an impact, or my conversationwith him does not have an impact
on the life of the neighborhoodchurch, right? It has an impact
on the kingdom, on the church,on the church, yeah, exactly,
church. And I don't even sayit's because of me, right?
That's because of the work ofGod in other places, right,
which is a beautiful thing tosee, right? That God's raising
(35:38):
up those people, yeah, and
Tom Helmich (35:39):
I should think of this scene from the Kung Fu
Panda
Pastor Joe Liles (35:43):
classic, hold on hold on hold on there are
four movies I want to thinkabout. What scene you're
thinking of the first movie,first movie in the sea is
Tom Helmich (35:53):
and Shifu is talking to like the little rat
or whatever the master or ninjamaster. Or ninja master,
whatever. Yeah, yes. Sir istalking to the old
Pastor Joe Liles (36:05):
turtle. Yes.
That's great. Yeah, I love theturtle monster. Yeah. Po Yeah,
Tom Helmich (36:09):
because Shifu thinks it's a waste of time.
Yep. And ugway is like, you justplant the seed and you have to
let
Pastor Joe Liles (36:14):
it grow.
That's it. Yeah, no control overthere underneath the tree, when
they're talking about this tree,yeah, that's great.
Tom Helmich (36:19):
Yeah. And, but chief was like, no, but, you
know, we can plant it where wewant it. We can, you know, put
it into the ground and and makeit be there. And who goes, like,
you be can't make it grow. Andif you plant a peach, you'll get
a peach. You can't make it anapple. Or, yeah, whatever the
terms were. And that kind ofshows like, the reality of what
our the simple part, what ourrole is in it, yeah, God gives
us seeds through our faith toplant, and then God grows them.
(36:41):
So like, we can't claim thatglory for ourselves. That's the
insignificance. Yeah, is ouraction, but we can't really
translate that over to thesignificance of what God is
doing through those seeds. Yeah,
Pastor Joe Liles (36:51):
that's exactly right. Yeah. One of my first
point in the message was thatthe seeds of faith that are sown
right should always be to servethe kingdom. That's it, right?
If it's to serve ourselves,we've failed in the mission of
what Christ is intending for usholy and fully. And so yeah,
let's open up scripture. Andjust kind of takes you. Now that
we've been talking about it,everyone pretty much knows the
Scripture because we'vereferenced the whole thing 10
(37:11):
times. But let's read it. Let'stake a second to read Scripture
and and then we'll get intoRoseanne notes after that. And
so Alright, table Do you want tokick us off? We're going to be
Matthew chapter 17, starting inverse 14, reading all the way
through 20, if you want to startus, yeah, all
Tevo Christmann (37:25):
right. Verse 14, when they came to the crowd,
a man came to him, knelt beforehim, and said, Lord, have mercy
on my son, for he is anepileptic and he suffers
terribly. He often falls intothe fire and often into the
water.
Tom Helmich (37:40):
And I brought him to your disciples, but they
could not cure him. Jesusanswered you, faithless and
perverse generation. Ouch, yeah.
How much longer must I be withyou? How much longer must I put
up with you? Bring him here tome,
Pastor Joe Liles (37:55):
and Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came
out of him, and the boy wascured instantly. Then the
disciples came to Jesusprivately, I love that line,
privately and said, Why could wenot cast it out? And He said to
them,
Roseann Bowlin (38:11):
because of your little faith, for truly, I tell
you, if you have faith the sizeof a mustard seed, you will say
to this mountain, move from hereto there, and it will move, and
nothing will be impossible foryou.
Pastor Joe Liles (38:27):
I just have to say we read the Scripture.
Roseanne preached the scripturethat was strong. Roseanne, that
was well done. You came instrong. I love it. So that's the
Scripture we've beenreferencing, and what we spoke
about on Sunday that led intothis kind of small seeds of
faith. Yeah, Jesus is harsh,right? In this it's hard to
hear. I mean, if anyone said inhere to me at any point, and
(38:49):
they said, How much longer mustI be with you? How much longer
must I put up with you? Right?
That's just a hard language atall in any person's life, as we
come through, and he's speakingto the disciples in the midst of
this group of people, and it'sit's interesting, because I
don't think it's directednecessarily at the father
bringing the epileptic son,right? Because in that reality,
yes, you would hope that thisfather has the faith Same deal
(39:11):
of a mother see of a mustardseed to heal and do these
things. But the disciples havebeen tasked with the mission to
go out and heal and cure. And sowith that, they've given, given
the power to do this, but havecome back unsuccessful, not
unfaithful, but unsuccessful inthat mission. And this language,
I believe, is that response tothat, they haven't lived out the
(39:31):
faith that was intended, right?
The intended to give glory toGod. And that was kind of the
second point of my message, wasthat. And it really kind of
stopped me as I think throughthe text, what does move the
mountain if you have the faithof a mustard seed, it's not a
glorification to show that youcan move a mountain, right? I
mean, that's that's just a showof force. It's a show of power.
(39:52):
It has to glorify
Tom Helmich (39:53):
God, yeah? Cuz it's gotta be God's power that moves
it
Pastor Joe Liles (39:56):
100% and so if we're trying to do these things
in our life, when we're. Notgiving glory to God on behalf of
it, then we're failing from thestart, right? That's where we
have little faith from thestart, is that it doesn't
glorify God in all that we do.
And so I see that here in thistext in a really incredible way.
But Roseanne, you were sittingin the church on Sunday, and so
what were your What was yourtakeaway from the message on
(40:16):
Sunday in a segment that we callRoseanne notes.
Roseann Bowlin (40:23):
That's so funny.
Okay, so I'm kind of wrapping acouple of thoughts here all up
together. But if you plant, ifyour faith is like a mustard
seed, which is very, very small,yeah, and it it's planted, it's
watered, it's nurtured. Itgrows. That's your faith
(40:45):
growing. But it grows from thewinds, like W, I N, S winds of
your prayer. So as you seeprayers answered, and you
glorify God for those answeredprayers, then your faith also
(41:08):
grows, and you can be thatstrong person who can give
advice and can say, I don't knowwhat God's plan is, but he's got
a plan, and we're going to moveforward.
Pastor Joe Liles (41:29):
So I love that faith. I had that moment this
morning, and I hadn't thoughtabout it when we were talking
about this before the podcast,but I had a direct moment where
I heard from God this morninglike you just need time with me
to pray like that. That was thatwas just the intentionality, and
it came through me not wantingto spend time doing that. I was
(41:49):
going on a run this morning. Ihave an hour and 21 minutes left
in this book that I've beenreading on on audio, and it's
fantastic. And I get reallyexcited when I get near the end,
because I get to finish a book,and I feel like I'm accomplished
and so and it's not a it's anovel. It's not a book where I'm
learning, it's just a book thatI'm I've been listening to, and
it's quirky, and it's right upmy alley, right? It's called
(42:10):
dungeon crawler, Carl. I don'tknow if you guys have heard this
at all. So it's, it's notanything you need to read
because it's a small market, butit's, it's just something that
is I'm able to run to and listento and enjoy, and it's just
enough to kind of say, Okay, Idon't often take time to read
for joy. So this has been great.
And I opened up my AirPods, andthey weren't in there, and I
realized, you know, there's amoment when you know you're
(42:33):
gonna about to go on an hourrun, and you're like, I'm gonna
be in my thoughts for an hour.
Like, this is not where I wantedto be thoughts. Oh yeah, I was
just a morning where I didn'twant to be. I love running. I
love running without music, likeI did my last 50k without music,
like I just ran. And I love thesounds, and it's beautiful. This
(42:55):
morning. I did not want that.
There's always a time when
Tom Helmich (42:57):
you don't want to have a conversation with
somebody. Man, sometimes thatcomes up when you don't want to
be had a conversation with you.
Conversation with yourself
Pastor Joe Liles (43:04):
either, you know. And I put them away, and I
was disappointed. It was one ofthose were like, I'm gonna go
back to my house, but it was 20minutes away. And I was like,
I'd ruin the whole 40 minutes.
And so I closed them, and I waslike, All right, just gonna go.
And that just means I have anhour, an hour in my head, and I
knew that my head was not in theright space. And I was like,
Man, I'm going to be thinkingabout everything for an hour.
(43:25):
And I was like, this is notgoing to draw on my day.
Yesterday, I felt so good aftermy run, and today, I was like,
Oh, I'm just going to be in it.
So I started running, I droppedKaylee off, and I start running
down the Greenway, and I'm just,I'm going my knees hurting a
little bit. And I'm like, God,this is just not where I want to
be this morning. And I was like,Okay. And so I kind of settled
in, you know, about a half milein, and I just heard God say,
(43:47):
hey, we have an hour to praytogether. Like, why don't you
just let your mind go and we'regoing to pray right now. And I
was like, and this, like, peacejust overwhelmed me. And I was
like, Yeah, I don't have to bein my head. I just had to take
time to pray and listen and soand so. I gave myself permission
for my mind to wander. I gavemyself permission to lift up
(44:09):
prayers as I heard them, right?
And I just spent the whole hourright, talking and listening to
God. And it was that moment,right? I wouldn't say I had a
win from it. And then therewasn't a huge revelation that
came from it, right? It was notyet. It would not yet. It was a
seed planted, and it just it satin that space in a really
wonderful way. So I love that itis about the winds of prayer,
and I think that's directlyrelated to Scripture too. Is
that our wins from prayer andand prayer theologically, isn't
(44:32):
like a winning, losingrelationship, but I think it's
always a lifting uprelationship, right? And that we
do feel there are times whenprayers are answered, but I
think there's also in times whenwhat we feel is insignificant
God is moving and weaving into astory of God's Kingdom work. I
had someone early on the churchsay it was the slow work of God.
It's always the slow work ofGod. And I was like, Yep, and
(44:55):
that is anti everything in thislife, right? How? We look
forward, we are a compelled,driven, ambitious society and
culture, and that moves at apace where the church is almost
counter cultural to that, andthat it is a work of faith all
of our life to just endure. Andso yeah, any other comments from
Roseanne? Notes The
Tevo Christmann (45:21):
to piggyback on what you said, the winds of
prayer are Jesus said, whateveryou ask in my name will be given
to you. And so the exercise ofprayer is one where you align
yourself to his name, right andand then you experience the
(45:41):
winds of prayer. And the windsof prayer is built in to the
aligning, yeah, yourself to Hiswill. So I think, yeah, I mean,
it doesn't mean every time youask for, we have to stay shy of
that prosperity gospel great,that every time you ask for a
car, you get a new car. And thenyou pray, you pray for a lake
(46:02):
house, and then, you know, then,then faith will be strong.
That's not, obviously, that'snot. That's not. What that means
the winds of prayer are, is, arethe changes that happen within
you? Yeah, in the exercise ofprayer, yeah, yeah. Sometimes
there are real, actual,physical, tangible wins, but
they come from that alignedperspective, you know. But
Pastor Joe Liles (46:24):
table, if I get a really nice house with a
big backyard, then I can bitepeople over, and we can do
discipleship studies in a reallybig backyard, right? Yeah, the
glorification,
Tom Helmich (46:35):
it's a hard balance of knowing what like what point
requires our action versusrequires our inaction. Yeah,
yeah. Because I think part ofwhen we actually try to live our
life out, you know, inspired byour faith and put that into
action, is sometimes that's kindof relinquishing ourselves to
God's authority instead of,instead of fighting it, yeah.
But then there's sometimes wherewe need to be activated to go do
(46:57):
something. Like, there's the,you know, the story of the man
on the roof and the water'sgetting higher, yeah, all these
people come to help him, and hedies. And he's like, God, why
didn't you save me? He's like,Man, I sent a boat. Yeah, no,
but thinking about this, it'slike, oh, the thing popped into
my head before we left thepodcast. So when Amy and I were
getting married, so this is 1999I got engaged in 98 and 99 I was
(47:22):
looking for a house. I wasrenting a house in a not
incredible neighborhood inRogers with two other guys one
block away from there, wherethey've been a couple of drive
by shootings. Actually,
Pastor Joe Liles (47:31):
that's not going to be the start of married
life. I'll tell you that two
Tom Helmich (47:36):
other dudes that you know, whatever and that
going on. And so we hired a realestate agent, and we're looking
for a house to buy. So becausethis is, this was in the
summertime, like, you know, May,June, and we're getting married
that November, and we saw a fewhouses with this real estate
agent, we told her what we'relooking for, something with a
decent sized front yard and afront porch, kind of back off
(47:57):
the road. And she kept showingus these big brick things with
no front porch right on theroad. What she was wanting to
sell, basically. And I said, Nowsomething we're looking for, I'm
really looking for this. And shejust quit calling us back. I
guess, technically, I'm stillwaiting for to call me back,
maybe. Oh, wow. She's Wow. She'squit calling back. Whoo. And it
was Amy's idea, listen
Pastor Joe Liles (48:13):
to this podcast, and that seed of faith
we just planted right there. Oh,I should get back to him,
Tom Helmich (48:17):
okay, but, and it's Amy's idea. We're at the sitting
in the couch in the living roomin that rent house, and this is
summertime. I still had myChristmas tree up because we
were three bachelors, you know,yeah, and we thought she had
what she did. She's like, whydon't we just pray about it and
then just let it go and we'lljust move on. Mm, hmm. And so I
was like, okay, so we and atthat point, for me, prayer was a
(48:38):
very private thing. We didn'tpray out loud around other
people. And there's a whole partof the Bible that, you know, go
and pray to your in secret. Yourfather, who's in secret, will
will hear in secret, you know.
And so not part of it, you know.
That was not big thing in thetradition, Lutheran tradition,
and praying out loud with otherpeople. So it was a little
awkward, but we did it, and thenwe forgot about it. It's just a
(48:58):
couple days later, I was goingto eat lunch in Fayetteville
with my mom. Yeah, driving downPleasant Grove Road, there's
nothing there, because back thenyou had to go to Fayetteville
to, like, get a decentrestaurant, you know? And
there's this piece of plywoodwith this For Sale sign stapled
on it and a handwritten phonenumber. And my mom's driving,
and she's like, what's that? I'mlike, I don't know. She's like,
Oh, that's look so she pullsinto this gravel driveway, and I
(49:19):
look down the driveway, and I'mlooking at the front of the
house we live in right now.
Pastor Joe Liles (49:22):
Oh, wow, still gravel. Yeah, it's still
Tom Helmich (49:26):
and I'm like, well, that's kind of cool. And so I
called Amy, she was working atback when it was St Mary's,
yeah, and told her about it, youknow. And so we drove by and
looked at it, and she's like,oh, yeah, that's nice house, you
know, you can afford that. Andand call my grandfather, and he
looked at it, and he's like,yes, good bit. You know, his
businessman, businessinvestment, if you like it, buy
(49:47):
it, move in. If you don't likeit, buy it, bulldoze it and sell
it, resell the land in 10 years.
Yeah, exactly. And so he'ssetting up an appointment. And,
I mean, I bought it in June orno, it was all. August, by the
time we got around to that pointis August. Bought it in August
and moved in, and then we weremarried that November. Wow,
that's great. And had nofurniture yet,
Pastor Joe Liles (50:08):
yeah, of course. Yeah, absolutely.
Tom Helmich (50:12):
But I know real estate helped us find that. I
didn't find it on a search,yeah, we literally said a prayer
and then just forgot about it.
And my mom on a whims like,what's down this road and just
turned into this random road weknow. Random road we never seen
before? Wow, yeah, sometimesthat happens. It just kind of
just showed up. Yeah, that'sgreat. At that moment, I'm like,
that's, that's not a coincidencethat ever happens to me. Yeah,
correct, you know, and, andthere's, they're building a
(50:34):
subdivision around it, andthey're building these much more
expensive homes, and the guy whoowned that two little over two
and a half acres that we havenow, didn't like the idea of
what they're doing these otherhouses, and was refusing to sell
property to the builder. That'sgreat, because they wanted to
incorporate that in theneighborhood, yeah. And he's
like, No. And so when I calledhim, he's like, oh, yeah,
getting ready to have, you know,young couple get married. Want
(50:56):
to have kids eventually, yeah.
And so we got it for a prettygood price, a lot less than what
the builder is absolutely goingto pay him for it. Yeah. And
we've been there for 26 years.
That's
Pastor Joe Liles (51:07):
awesome. Thank God, good. God is good. That's
great.
Tom Helmich (51:11):
Gosh, yeah. And no and no desire to ever move,
yeah, yeah.
Pastor Joe Liles (51:15):
So I think we've heard them as Bob as is,
pray in a beautiful way, right?
That is the evidence of whatglorifies God. Give glory to
God. That prayer, right? Beginwith everything, right? In the
series of prayer, yeah, beobedient. But trust God. That's
beautiful. So trust in God isgreat, because that is actually
next week's message. When youcome to understand small seeds
of faith, there's a great time.
(51:35):
Thanks Tom. Appreciate that.
Thanks for the transition. Yeah,that's good. Yeah, no idea,
yeah. So next week is abouttrusting God. It's really about
this identity of, how do welearn to trust God? And there's
two realities there. I would sayit out loud that one, if we're
in a faithful relationship withGod, and we're moving and we
feel like we're connected toGod, how do you continue to
trust God, right? And and Ithink take that next step in
saying that all that I've beengiven is God's that has been
(51:57):
given first. So what does thatmean to trust God with
everything that I have. That's ahard language. I think there's a
beautiful language within theright of a funeral that says, I
want to learn again to trust youGod. And I think there's a part
where we walk back to God,learning to trust God again in
the really hard times in ourlives. So we're gonna speak
about both those on Sunday as itcomes in, as we continue our
mountain mover series. And allGod's people
Unknown (52:20):
said, Amen.
Okay, all right. Welcome to the TNC
(00:04):
podcast, recorded in studio atthe worship center in the
neighborhood Church, which we'veconverted into a podcast studio
every single week. And what doesthat mean that we convert it
into a podcast studio? I don'tthink people really have an
identity of what it means thatwe convert this into a
Tom Helmich (00:18):
podcast studio. We move more furniture than a
moving company.
Pastor Joe Liles (00:21):
This is very true. I do agree that Tom,
what's your, what's yourverbally, but, yeah, yeah, it's
Unknown (00:27):
absolutely,
Pastor Joe Liles (00:29):
it's not exactly well,
Tom Helmich (00:33):
but they never move. They don't move the same
furniture. See,
Pastor Joe Liles (00:36):
Tom has a one touch rule. Have you heard of
the One Touch rule? I love theone time you love doing that
touch rule. I am not a one touchrule person, yeah, and
Tom Helmich (00:43):
easy and UN frustrating and all the things
that are wonderful, yeah? Butwhen you have a multi use space,
unfortunately,
Pastor Joe Liles (00:49):
that requires, yeah, absolutely. It requires
constant movement, which istough on furniture. It's tough
on furniture. We've lost somechairs over the time. Can we
just pause for a moment for thechairs that we've lost? Okay, so
that was good. So we bought somechairs. Yeah, we moved four
chairs every single week. We putsome tables over here. We grab
some coffee we're enjoying.
Bring the Scripture over. We gotsome pillows. Roseanne and I
have some pillows, which iswonderful. Stuff off the stage
(01:10):
to make it we move stuff off thestage in order to make space for
it, and then we move it backafterwards. It's a wonderful
process, and we get everythinggoing. But we are here. We have
four podcast host this morning,live in studio. And to my left
is the wonderful Roseanne Bowen.
Roseanne Bowen, and you're arole here at the neighborhood
church, Director of operation,oh, for the neighborhood church
(01:30):
and little neighbors, littleneighbors, preschool. That's
right, 5050, that's awesome. Andthen to my right, we have the
newly ordained pastor. You
Tom Helmich (01:38):
notice he didn't say wonderful, like only
Roseanne gets the wonderful liftthat up.
Pastor Joe Liles (01:43):
Oh, I just understood a lot more about
Pastor Tom. So Tom is a words ofaffirmation. Guy. I didn't know
that. Now,
Tom Helmich (01:49):
you introduced me for me. Yeah, that's good, Tom,
Pastor Joe Liles (01:53):
Mr. Wonderful.
Next to me is Mr. Wonderful. No.
So yeah, and your role here atthe neighborhood church, Pastor
of care and education,beautiful, and you're two weeks
fresh, yeah? Two weeks fresh,right? Just into the work,
right? This is starting in andlast week your work was getting
your office set up. We typicallydon't have offices at the
neighborhood church, yeah? ButI'm like, I'm Gen X. I don't
(02:14):
work that way. You don't workthat way. I 100% know that this
is very true.
Tom Helmich (02:17):
Putting an office together. I thought we pretty
easy, but I didn't know is goingto require climbing an
Pastor Joe Liles (02:21):
attic space.
Yeah, that's because we had asmall leak in your in your
defined office
Tom Helmich (02:24):
space compensation issue. Uh huh, yeah, maybe I
should have picked a differentYeah, you
Pastor Joe Liles (02:28):
went into it full. How are you feeling in
your defined office now workswhen I get to be in there. Oh,
that's great. Okay, that'sreally wonderful. Okay, great. I
was even in there yesterday whenyou were here. I walked in there
and I was like, Okay, great.
I'll sit down for 10 minutes inhere and get some work done. It
was wonderful. So I thank youfor making an you for making
another
Tevo Christmann (02:43):
office in the neighborhood church. Wait. Other
people are welcome to use youroffice when you're
Pastor Joe Liles (02:47):
not in there.
Well, technically it's theprayer room, so we can't really
say it's his office. It'sactually the prayer room, but
it's Tom's office during
Tom Helmich (02:53):
the week. Yeah, in there. And when I'm not in
there, there's a desk. Yeah?
Desk happened to be available?
Is there?
Pastor Joe Liles (03:00):
Yeah, it sits.
I'll let you guys work that out.
It's great. No, it's great. Andactually worked Wonderful. So
it's good little bit. Anothermulti purpose just found me
right away, though, can I saythis out loud? Out in the I went
in there Sunday morning, and Iwas just getting smart things
done, great, everything else,and then Jess, and then Jess had
appeared in the window, and Iwas like, How did you know?
Because when the lights, yeah,it's like, how did you know,
(03:21):
I've never been in here before,so it was great.
Tom Helmich (03:23):
People go in and sit down and turn the light off,
then they walk right by. Theydon't think it was in there. Oh,
Pastor Joe Liles (03:27):
smart. Okay, that's great. Yeah, that's
wonderful. And it's motionactivated, so then you can't
move. You
Tom Helmich (03:33):
can turn it off, I think, yeah, once you turn it
off, it's just off. Yeah,that's, that's the secret. There
Pastor Joe Liles (03:38):
we go and to Tom's right. Tavo wonderful,
Director of Music here at theneighborhood church, rocking,
awesome. But also, we have abouttwo weeks, about two weeks, and
so there's a transitionhappening, right? So a couple
podcasts left in the bank, yeah,that we got
Tom Helmich (03:54):
going on, like, the missing man formation, oh, we're
Pastor Joe Liles (03:58):
gonna, that's like a Yeah, I was gonna say,
now I gotta say, you know, thepoor one out right type of deal
when you have one. So it's gonnabe here, it's gonna be coffee.
Yeah, that's what we'll do. Wewill leave a seat here in your
honor. Crappy coffee afteryou're gone. It will be crap. A
coffee. What is the coffee? Whatis the coffee
Tevo Christmann (04:14):
that you brewed for us today? Today we have
airship Ethiopian. Ooh, nice.
That's great. What you hadyesterday, Tom, but did you just
switch into airship? I feel likeyou just moved in. No, we've
been doing airship for a longtime. We would love to do Onyx.
They're Ethiopian or geometry. Ilike that blend. Yeah, geometry
is great, but it's so expensive.
Airship is half the price andnot half as good. It's 95% is
(04:39):
good. So
Pastor Joe Liles (04:41):
there you go.
I met a ministry in NorthCarolina called deep time
coffee, and it was a secondchance ministry for those coming
out of prison and wonderfulministry, right? They help do
second chance employer. Theyemploy them. They're brewing,
they're roasting, they're doingall those things. And I. Asked
him in a meeting with all theyouth, as he was explaining this
and brewing his coffee, right? Isaid, Who are you watching?
(05:04):
Right? Like, who's yourinspiration? And he goes, Yeah,
Onyx. And I was like, dang. AndI was like, yeah, they're
they're worldwide, everythingthat people are watching in
there. Oh yeah, smells so good.
Oh man, it's great. So yeah,onyx is fantastic. Airships.
Great. Love airship. What doesthat blend I like? Do you
remember the blend I like fromblend I like from airship? I
don't know. It's like Tonga or,gosh, it's a really fruity
(05:26):
floral
Tevo Christmann (05:27):
so over from the from the coffee shop. Yeah,
okay, I can never find it. Isthat why? Yeah, they don't have
it. They don't have it at whatstore they said I could buy it
in their stores. In their store,you could, okay, do they sell?
But I've never found it.
Tom Helmich (05:40):
Do they have their own, their own storefront? Oh,
yeah, coffee
Tevo Christmann (05:43):
shops. And you buy it, you buy it there. Where
is that at? They
Pastor Joe Liles (05:45):
have coffee shop at Kohler, on the Kohler
trail. They have it NorthBentonville on a on a street.
What's that one called at thepump house? The pump house,
yeah, it's called the pumphouse. Yeah. Have another one
somewhere. It's on Fifth Street,if it's still there, it's the
old one on Fifth Street. It's ona, oh, is it okay? Yeah, yeah,
so,
Tevo Christmann (06:01):
but North side,
Pastor Joe Liles (06:02):
and they just went into mazios, mazzio and
Centerton. It's a combo airshipand Mazzeo, yeah, yeah, yeah. I
don't know it's gonna work, butI'm like, great. I don't know if
it's mazios brewing airship and,like, you can go get coffee
there. I
Tevo Christmann (06:17):
don't know to go Italian. It's like, yeah,
something.
Pastor Joe Liles (06:22):
What's the burger joint? What's the burger
joint? Well, mazios is Pizza,pizza place. No, it's a burger
joint. I might be saying thename wrong, because, like, pizza
and coffee, the smells like, Idon't know that would work.
Yeah, no, no. It's next to,like, USPS on North Walton.
That's, that's the same place.
It's a burger I don't rememberwhat
Tom Helmich (06:39):
neighborhood is this far into bent
Pastor Joe Liles (06:46):
bills I usually come. Oh, okay, great
job. Reasons why we got to keepyou know this is great. Roseanne
just bringing the wisdom, whichis great. So Muse and airship is
what's happening. Still,sandwiches, sandwiches and
coffee. Odd, yeah, it's greatfor them. So let's dig in a
little bit before we dig in.
Though we have our jingle. I
Tevo Christmann (07:05):
want a two. I want 234-793-6722, 85,
neighborhood
Unknown (07:15):
church, church,
Pastor Joe Liles (07:16):
wow, yeah, Tom, sing. How to give her? Tom,
sing. You gotta sing Tom. I did.
That's all I got. That's all yougot. That's your singing voice.
I'm gonna sing next to you onSunday. When this Sunday, we're
gonna
Unknown (07:25):
rock it. It's gonna be
Pastor Joe Liles (07:25):
great. It's easy. I just keep my mouth shut.
Great. It's awesome. Okay, solet's dig in. So we're in a
series right now that we'retalking through, and we're
talking through just kind ofthis mountain movers. And what
it means is, how do we learn totrust God when the mountains in
front of us right, or even whenthe mountains behind us right,
when we're walking up themountain walking down the
mountain, and this is just inhard times in our life. How do
(07:47):
we learn to trust God and and Ithink it's something that we can
all relate to in the series, isthat we can relate to hard times
in our life where we havestruggled to understand where
God is at and how our faith hasan impact and the things that we
are going through. And so we'vebeen moving through the
scenario. A large part of theseries was in response to after
(08:08):
mission, and making sure that inthese times when we devote
ourselves to mission, and wehave this week where we're just
really serving, and it's drawingeverything from us, but also
filling us at the same time,what are, what are? Where are we
breaking down? Where are webreaking down and building our
faith back up? And it's reallyin the lives of youth, but even
in leaders, it happens a lot onthe mission trips. Also leaders
break down one because we'retrying to outlast the youth on
(08:30):
their energy and their nighttimeroutines, and we're out before
them getting things ready. We'reafter them meeting, making sure
everything's going good, andthen coming back. So we heard
the mission stories, which wasgood. I still want to offer up
that, you know, we're prayingfor camp mystic and all those
families the flooding in Texas.
A lot of the reason we switchedinto this series was because of
that. We were going to do a fullcamp series, right? That was
(08:50):
really about the things that welearn at camp. But there was
such a tragedy that happened inTexas that we wanted to give
space for that and make surethat we could pray over that,
and then talk about, really, howdo we trust God again, right?
And the things that we're goingthrough. So this last week was
about small seeds of faith. Itwas about these moments of small
seeds of faith. And when thesesmall seeds of faith become a
reality in your life, that ifyou had the mustard seed size of
(09:13):
faith, you could move mountains,right? So this comes in our
mountain mover series, and and Ilove it because the text that we
use on Sunday, which is a greatillustration, the disciples are
talking they couldn't healdemon, which we're going to read
in a second, that person comesto Jesus, and Jesus has a very
harsh response. Scripturally,it's very harsh. We talked about
that on Sunday, calling them,you know, you of little faith.
(09:35):
How much longer must I be withyou? This is hard. It's tough to
hear from Jesus. Then thedisciples asked, what should be
done different? And he said,well, because of your little
faith, if you had the size of amustard seed of faith, you could
move mountains. What Jesus issaying that your faith is less
than the size of a mustard seed.
So if you had this mustard seedsize of faith, you could have
been able to move mountains. AndI think for us as Christians
(09:59):
coming into. Understand ourrelationship with Jesus. A lot
of us feel that we're veryfaithful, right? We feel that
we're walking into this. Thesewere disciples doing the
ministry of Jesus, walking withJesus, and he said, you have
little faith. And so it's almosta humbling way to look at where
we're really at in our journeywith God, and how we understand
our faith. And so we arebreaking that down on Sunday and
just kind of understanding, whatare these small seeds of faith?
(10:22):
What do they mean in their life?
And I want to take you throughthat text, but before we do, I
want to kind of ask an introquestion, an answer question I
have is this, is that, when wasthere a time in your life that
you had a small seed of faithand it grew to something bigger,
right? Something that youwitnessed in someone but it was
a small act, a small thing inyour faith, and then it grew to
what we'll hear in the text fromMatthew 13, was the greatest of
(10:44):
shrubs, or a mighty tree, and itgrew into something greater as
time came on. So what was thetime in your life when that
happened?
Roseann Bowlin (10:55):
I have a couple of examples. Okay, it's great.
One was, I was teaching teensSunday School at a church we
belong to my husband and I wereteaching this class at the same
time, and I didn't feel like Iwas getting through to these
(11:15):
kids. I I just, you know, but Ikept, kept it up because I had
faith that I was planting seedsin these kids, and years later,
I was working at Walmart, and Iwas a CSM, so I'm watching the
front end. I'm up front, andthis girl comes through, and she
(11:36):
passes me and does a doubletake, and she turns around and
she says, I have to hug you. AndI'm like, okay, yeah. So she
said, you may not remember me,but you are firmly in my memory.
Yeah, you're my Sunday schoolteacher, and it is you talking
through things that made myfaith so firm. That's awesome.
(12:01):
It gives me chills to say that,even to this day, because to get
that affirmation was like, Imust have done something, right?
That's great. So, and that thatwas thrilling for me. And it
came to me at a time when, youknow, I'm just like, going
through the motions, yeah, so,so then I went home and told my
husband about it, and he's like,wow, you know. So, I mean, it
(12:25):
was like, Okay, grab your Bible.
We're going to church. That'sgreat. So it was, it was
wonderful. And the second timeis going through tragedy, kind
of a valley in my life. I hadleft one childcare, went to
another. Was not a good fitthere, left there. Didn't know
(12:46):
what I was going to do. I mean,and the whole way home, I'm
saying, God's got this, God'sgot this, God's got a plan.
God's got a plan. I don't knowwhat it is. This is painful, but
I'm crying and but I'm justconstantly saying that. So then,
so I, I told Walmart I wasworking for Walmart at the time,
(13:13):
hey, I can go full time. Sothey're like, Okay, we'll put
you full time. So that happened.
So with full time, I gotbenefits started the new year,
it was looking good. Then myhusband's accident happened,
(13:34):
then COVID happened, oh, I mean,a few years later, so I was
established full time, thenCOVID hit, and I'm like, I
turned around and I looked atthis, and I went, Man, God, I
don't know why. It surprises meevery time, but you are strong
and mighty, because had not, hadthose things not happened in
(13:56):
God's plan. I'm not sure surewhere I would be, but as an
essential worker during COVID, Ihad a job, yeah, that's great,
and I wasn't sitting at home onunemployment not knowing where
my next step was going to be. Soso i i I felt God's presence
(14:22):
through all of that, but then Istopped and turned around a few
years later and looked and went,Wow, we don't often get to see
God's plan, even when it'spainful. Yeah. So that's where
my wisdom and faith comes fromis that I've had that happen,
(14:46):
and God's been with me. So Iknow God's going to be with me
through all the other stuff,too, and I don't worry so much
Pastor Joe Liles (14:54):
as you say, Wow, no, right now, where did
that seed begin? So I mean thatlast story that you shared, i.
You know, you said you startedin a valley, you know, you were
talking through this. You sawthat, you know, Walmart had a
full time job, and then thehusband accident, like these are
many years. I mean, you wentthrough, yes, I mean, a span of
probably five years in that timethat you were talking right,
from the seed of faith all theway through to, like,
(15:14):
recognizing that God is alwayswith you. Where, where do you
think that initial seed plantedright that led you through kind
of that small faith that ledinto something bigger later on,
Roseann Bowlin (15:24):
probably as a child. I mean when, when I was
about 12 or 13, on Easter, Imight tear up, but it was
Easter, and I remember being atchurch growing up Catholic, and
I felt the Holy Spirit whisperto me, even you, that Jesus died
(15:49):
even for me, and I feel veryinsignificant, yeah,
Pastor Joe Liles (15:54):
yeah, that's powerful, right? Insignificance
and small seed are two differentways to look at that, which is
very interesting, right? BecauseI think we think take things
that are small and sometimesmake them insignificant, and
hearing even you says, Hey,you're not insignificant. You
might feel small in the world,but Jesus sees you for who you
are, yeah, and walks with youthrough all this.
Roseann Bowlin (16:14):
I mean, I never, have, never will be a big,
powerful preacher or but I cando small things.
Pastor Joe Liles (16:22):
Oh, you preached hot yesterday you were
preaching to me that yesterdayyou were talking like you ready
to go. I think you could bringthe word on to Sunday. That'd be
great. So okay, this, Iappreciate you sharing that that
was a vulnerable story. And Ithink that, you know, as we talk
through the different mountainsin our life, I mean, you named
mountains without naming them.
You know, these are importantthings. You
Roseann Bowlin (16:43):
know, sometimes you can be on the mountain and
you're looking around going,life is good, yeah? And we don't
stop to give God that glory,yeah, all the time. And he
deserves that. I mean, thereason we're on the mountain top
and life is good is becauseGod's there with us. What
Pastor Joe Liles (17:03):
about you guys? Do you have some stories
of a small seed of faith thattransformed into something
greater?
Tevo Christmann (17:11):
I think we're talking about seeds. It reminds
me of the still small whisper,right? Or what's the more, the
more accurate translation. Ifyou Does anybody know it's not,
apparently, the word is notwhisper. It's this. It's, I know
(17:32):
you're talking about it meanssilence, yeah, you know, right?
There's still small silence.
It's weird. I mean, it's Hebrew,it's not English, whatever, but
it's there's something in thequiet right that you hear from
God. It's whispers, it's littleflashes. It's glimpses, right?
Just Lewis talks about glimpses.
Talks about when you see a pieceof art that leads you to sort of
(17:56):
transcend, or you hear a pieceof music that leads you to
transcend, or when you eatsomething that you're just you,
that you marvel at, or when yousee someone who's beautiful, or
just these esthetic experiencesare when you spend time in
nature, he calls them glimpses,yeah, of the Divine, right? It's
(18:16):
it. They're not the divineitself, but they hint at
something greater than ourearthly sort of experience. And
so I think, I think God, Godalways speaks to us through
these little things, you know,if, if you're, if you're in in
the mode of listening to God, ifyou're in the phase where you
(18:40):
think God's reaching, and like,you know when that's happening,
because you feel it. You findyourself meditating on on
scripture, find yourselfmeditating on what God might be
like and what God might bedoing. And you find your mind
just sort of gravitating to itnaturally. That's That's God
working in you, you know, andyou start to see God in all
(19:03):
sorts of little things. And, Imean, I would, I was going
through that multiple times, butI just remember sitting down,
getting home from work, and justsitting down to turn the TV on,
and Narnia is on, and I ambawling, oh, you know, yeah. And
I was like, I don't even knowwhy I'm crying, but Aslan is so
cool, or, you know, like, at onepoint, you know, it was, it was
(19:28):
a sort of a nascent era or timeof my life where I'm just, I was
just, like, making big changes,you know, and, you know, like
the Christian perspective wasstarting to take root into into
my life, and I wanted to makesome decisions that that were
founded on Christ as a realityin my life, you know. So at that
(19:52):
point, like the kinds offriendships I'm going to press
into were intentional, you know,they weren't accidental.
Anymore. I. The kinds of valuesthat I hold as non negotiable,
became intentional. This is I'mgoing to accept these things
into parts of my very identity.
You know, I am a Christian as amatter of identity, and so it's
just a transformation andaccepting these things. And part
(20:13):
of that was just having this,this intense hunger for
mentorship, yeah, you know, Ijust craved pastoring. I craved
somebody who would look into mylife and would Gordon Ramsay it,
you know, and I would often justwatch Gordon Ramsay and I'm
(20:36):
like, Man, I wish somebody wouldjust come into, yeah, my life's
kitchen, yeah, right.
Pastor Joe Liles (20:44):
I love how Gordon Ramsay as a person, as a
mentor, I'm like, that's a toughmentor. I guys coming in hot. I
Tevo Christmann (20:49):
needed truth.
Yeah, what I wanted, I want. Iwanted truth. I want somebody to
come into my life and speaktruth, yeah, and call me out on
the things that I was doingwrong, and just just set things
straight, you know. And I gotthat to some degree, and I still
wish we I could have gottensomebody that was just full on.
Gordon Ramsay, you know, I can'tdo a court Gordon Ramsay,
Tom Helmich (21:10):
impression here an image I'll never get out of my
mind. Now, oh, you won't haveYeah,
Tevo Christmann (21:15):
I love watching Gordon Ramsey, in no small part,
for that reason, is justremembering this season of
wanting somebody who's who'smore experienced, more well
versed, you know, has been onthe on the walk longer, and
needing that, needing that, tomodel someone like that. And to
(21:35):
me, I would just watch GordonRamsay, and I was just dream of
having that kind of mentorship.
And so these little things, youknow, like you just, my point
is, when God starts to draw onyour heart, the little things
start to show up everywhere,yeah, you know. And I don't know
that it's possible to trace onebig thing all the way back to
one little thing, yeah, youknow, maybe, maybe it might be
(21:58):
for somebody. But I don't, Idon't know that it is totally
Tom Helmich (22:05):
possible to throw the mustard seed down on the
ground. You're never gonna findit again, right? Yeah, it's so
small. So
Tevo Christmann (22:10):
yeah. I mean, I had, I had other, you know, when
I started coming to faith, partof, part of what led me to start
questioning where my life washeaded in the first place is
looking at friends of mine whohad never left the faith, you
know? And it's like, wait, youjust, like, they just made
better decisions than I did.
They're just, you know what? Imean? It's like, Oh, that. Like,
(22:31):
sure, you withdrew from some ofthe craziness that I dove
headlong into. But honestly,like, I got nothing out of that,
yeah, ultimately, and, you know,just, it just reminds me of the
book of Proverbs, you know, justmake good decisions there.
They're going to be temptations,left and right, but just follow
a good path, the path that yourfather might tell you to go.
(22:54):
Yeah, right. And it'll it'sbetter for you to do that, yeah?
So, just little, like, justlittle interactions with other
people start coming to mind. So,yeah, I mean, the little thing
is just it also reminds me of,like, organizationally, if you
have a business or a church or anonprofit or stuff like that,
often we get together and wedraw up these long strategies,
(23:15):
right awardees, convolutedstrategies, and there's mission,
and there's vision, and there'sall sorts of techniques,
strengths and weaknesses, yeah,you know, threats and
opportunities, all of thesebusiness techniques. But
ultimately, none of that stuffmatters, because the real
vision, the real mission, comesthrough in the little moments.
(23:38):
You know, it's, it's when noone's looking, you really learn
what the true vision is. So, Imean, the little things are just
a reflection of the big things.
Anyway, I'm rambling now.
Pastor Joe Liles (23:50):
So, no, no, I think it's exactly how we kind
of look at, not only churchlife, right, but as you come
through, what I spoke at the endof the message, was that same
thing, and I think I heard itfrom you, is that you start to
make decisions about beingequally yoked with those around
you, right? And you realizethat, yeah, yes, I want seeds of
faith planted in me. That'sbeautiful. It's a beautiful
narrative in the Scripture,right? Like, yes, plant seeds of
(24:12):
faith, but we're also called toplant seeds in others. And I
think at certain times we'retalking about our faith,
specifically, right now, aboutsmall moments of our faith, and
when those grew bigger. But Ireally think that if you want to
be in a field and be sowing andreaping, right what is ever
happening in Christian faith inlife, that you have to be around
those who are walking that path.
We don't do it perfectly.
(24:33):
There's not going to be anygroup that walks it perfectly.
But yeah, you'll have hardmentors in your life. You'll
have friends that are like, Oh,you're making better decisions.
They're not the best decisions,but you are making better
decisions, and you're informingthem by your relationship with
God or relationship to thechurch or through a light. You
know, somewhere in here, you aremaking decisions about this. And
I think that was a challengingmessage point of the message
(24:54):
that I brought at the very tailend of the message, I said, if
you if you don't have friendsthat are challenging you and
your family. Faith, and they'renot asking about your
relationship with God. Youshould question who you're
hanging out with, right? Becauseit might not be the equally
yoked nature of what God'sintending for you. And I think
we get really comfortable in ourfriend groups, and we struggle
on those sometimes, and butthrough those, we should be
challenged, right? We shouldfeel that challenge to be
(25:16):
convicted towards that life ofChrist. And you should
challenge, Oh, absolutely, yeah.
I think friends should speaklife into you, right? They
should speak, as you said, truthinto you, right? And they should
say, Hey, I see you going thisdirection. That might not be the
best direction. I see thishappening over here. That might
not be the best direction oraffirming when, hey, that was
incredible. I love that yousacrificed in this moment. You
did this, and everything elselike that. So what about you?
Tom, when was a moment for asmall seed of faith? I'm
Tom Helmich (25:40):
thinking about that, and I'm not sure, okay,
it's only thing where you kindof look back,
Tevo Christmann (25:44):
only big moments for Tom, big faith. Tom,
Tom Helmich (25:48):
like, if you watch as you watch your kids grow,
which would be anything for youtable to watch, like you're
looking at them, and it's just,it's just who they are, and
until you look back, like apicture of them, like a year
before and notice the change, isthe only time you notice what's
going on, sure. So you reallygot to look back to kind of see
it. You know where you werebefore, how things were in your
life before, to be able toreally know where you you know
(26:10):
where you sit, where you arenow. And so for me, I mean, I, I
was baptized. I remember when Iwas baptized with my uncle, and
grew up in the church the entiretime. And it was just something
that was always, you know,always there. Yeah, they've been
moments that have kind of helpedsolidify things a little bit,
you know, here and there, butnothing, you know, remarkable.
(26:32):
It's just been this kind of, Imean, it's part of my
personality, of that slowconstant, you know, burn in a
certain fashion, you know, like,if you're, like a runner, some
people are sprinters or doextreme stuff, and then you have
the the LSD runners, long, slowdistance, okay? And it's just
consistent, even pace of justkind of continuing along. That's
(26:52):
just kind of what my life hasfelt like. I mean, right after
high school, I got a phase aboutfor about a year, I didn't go to
church because I realized that Icould just sleep, yeah,
Pastor Joe Liles (27:01):
till noon, yeah, yeah, that's great
sleeping. And slept till noon ina millennia, right? I don't
understand it. I literally,yeah, it
Tom Helmich (27:10):
was a thing, and I don't think I really got
anything out of that, either.
But then eventually it's like,there, in that moment where, all
sudden, something's missing alittle bit, yeah, started kind
of getting back into that. Andthen, you know, Amy and I got
married, and we're going alittle bit here and there. We
tried some different churches,because pipe organs are strange
to her, okay, yeah, basing thecampus ministry. Oh, beautiful.
And I, because I was there, wewere dating, I was there at her,
(27:32):
at her baptism.
Pastor Joe Liles (27:34):
Okay, this is a story I want to hear. Maybe
it's time for a great podcaston, like, baptism stories. But,
yeah,
Tom Helmich (27:39):
it was great. It was neat, you know, but looking
at kind of how that that worked,and looking at different
churches, when I really startedkind of looking at what my faith
really wasn't, theology reallywas, yeah, what I believed and
didn't, and we, we eventuallywound up circling back around to
to another Lutheran Church. Mm,great. But it's just been this
kind of slow, consistent thing,you know, like, if you plant a
(27:59):
tree, you know, and you'relooking for the difference, you
really got to look at, you know,big times in the life, like day
one and three years later to seethe differences. Yeah, it's
beautiful. I'm sure when we getdone, like, two or three hours
from now, a great example,you'll
Pastor Joe Liles (28:13):
be like, oh, man, this is the best seat of
faith example. That's
Tevo Christmann (28:16):
great. I think that's kind of what the passage
means, right? You have aninsignificant amount of faith
that leads to a very significantamount of growth, and you can't
always trace it, but,
Tom Helmich (28:27):
and the cool thing about that the mustard seed
thing, so he said, If you hadfaith size of a mustard seed,
you could move mountains, right?
Yeah. None of us can literallymove a mountain, yeah? Which
means, and it's unclear even whyyou would want to, why you want
to, right? Well, yeah, so, buteven then, if our our faith is
less than that mustard seed, butyet it's it was, and it's a gift
to something get not, it's notour own faith, right? So faith
(28:47):
given to us, but that smallamount of faith, so much smaller
than a mustard seed, is stillenough to defeat the temptation
of the devil, yeah, and it'sstill enough to defeat death. So
God only had to give us thattiny little bit to do that.
Tevo Christmann (29:02):
Don't, don't you think that, because Jesus is
what reprimanding people on nothaving, yeah, it's harsh
critique that there is a degreeto which, like Paul says, faith
is a gift from God, right? Sowe're given faith. And I
actually also believe that?
Well, Paul says it so I should,yeah,
Pastor Joe Liles (29:24):
I also believe this part of Scripture, so many
questions.
Tevo Christmann (29:29):
But I do feel, you know, and call me
synergistic, I guess, if youwant, but I do feel that there
is at one point where there hasto be intention to meet that
gift.
Tom Helmich (29:41):
Oh, yeah, it's what you're going to do with it.
Yeah, it's like, if I, if I givesomebody a gift and they just
set it on a shelf and do nothingwith it, you know, then what's
the gift we give them? The giftfor a reason to do something,
you know, and interacting withpeople, people around us, plus
you gotta look at, you know, itwas automatic speakers. It was
written. Into Greek. And theyget the Greek word pistis, which
(30:02):
you can dig into for hours,like, way more than, yeah, was
Jesus really talking aboutfaith? Or he's like, you know,
you have little trust, you know,why do you trust? Because
there's kind of dual meanings inthere. But at some point in
time, you know, we have toeither live into our we either
turn away from our faith, or welive into our faith, right? And
that's about the limit of ourchoice in life. It's like, what
(30:23):
we're gonna what we're gonna todo with it, and where people
would really get into problemsis when there's dissonance
between your faith and yourbeliefs and your actions. Yeah,
you know, it's like givingsomebody a wonderful gift,
valuable gift, and then theyjust kind of like, walk away
from it, don't do anything
Tevo Christmann (30:39):
with it. The fact that matters, that your
actions are your beliefs, right,right? And
Tom Helmich (30:44):
you have time and money for the things that are
important, yeah? Yeah,
Pastor Joe Liles (30:47):
absolutely.
And that's a response that wehave right to that gift, right?
The response of how we walk inthis life, right, and live out
that faith, I think, is what'sbeing referenced here in
Scripture. Exactly. It's a harshcritique, because it's, how are
you living this out? Right? Andspecific response to disciples
not carrying demons because theydidn't pray. So if you imagine
that Jesus understands thisnature and says, You've like,
(31:07):
your response was to pray. Yourresponse was to honor God. Your
response was to say, this isn'tof your power. It's not of your
power. It's never been of yourpower. It's a response from God.
And what you forgot is torespond to God first, you know,
like, so I can see the thefrustration. Yes, he's teaching.
It's
Tom Helmich (31:24):
kind of an innate problem with humanity is we
always want to make it about us.
Oh, absolutely, it's alwaysabout, you know, what, what I
can do, and what, what can beaccredited to me and everything.
Even in faith, we keep comingback to that, yeah, you know,
instead of wanting to give theglory to God and praying, it's
like, well, I have the authorityI do this, and then it doesn't
work. And I wait a minute.
Pastor Joe Liles (31:44):
Yeah, I was talking with someone this week,
and it was a pastor out inWisconsin, actually. So one of
the teams that I'm on is inWisconsin for the gathering,
right? Was talking to pastor inWisconsin, and he says, this
week, he goes, You don'tremember me, do you? And I was
like, I'm sorry. I was like, IThat's my bad, you know, school,
(32:05):
yeah. I was like, I don't hegoes, we met eight years ago.
And I was like, Oh yeah, I feellike, I get a I get a pass, you
know? Like, that's okay, right?
And he goes, we met when you andJess were in Seattle teaching at
a mission Developers Conference.
And I was like, Oh, great. Itotally remember that, because
that was our team. That, becausethat was our 10 year anniversary
trip, right? And I was like, soI have great memories from that
(32:27):
trip. We were that when you wentcamping, that was when we
camping, yeah? And we went, wedid 10 dates for 10 years. So we
did our art date, we did a fooddate, we did Starbucks coffee,
because that's where it camefrom. So we did the Starbucks
date, then we did camping, wedid a sports game, right? We did
movie night date, right? So, Imean, we did 10 dates in 10
(32:47):
days. It was awesome. It was sogood and so, but we taught at
this conference leading up tothis and then spent 10 days in
Ho National Forest, differentthings like that. And so he
goes, Yeah, he goes, You werespeaking then of the
neighborhood. And he goes, andyou were talking about the
vision of this church plant andwhat it's becoming, and how
you're trying to test, you know,models for the future of church
(33:07):
and what this means. And hegoes, and we talked for like, an
hour, you know, when we werethere, and he goes, and you guys
just poured into, like, what isthe future of the church? And he
goes, and you're teaching, youknow, what we were teaching at
the time was the nuts and boltsof church planning. Like, if
you're looking at the future ofchurch, here's what it means to
be sustainable, here's what itmeans to go forward. But go
forward. And he goes, and westill talk about the
neighborhood church today, rightin our church, he goes, and
(33:27):
actually, we model the thingsthat we do off the things that
you're doing. And he goes, Yeah,can we just talk for an, you
know, half hour, and we I canjust ping you with questions,
right? And I was like, I neverknew that conversation on a time
when I was teaching, right,which to me a teaching to many
different people, sitting downfor that one moment, was going
to be an eight year journey to afuture conversation that we had
(33:49):
unexpectedly. Then we spent, youknow, half hour, 45 minutes
talking this week just about thelife of church, and where is
church headed, and how can we dothat in congregations, and what
is the future? And that was asmall seed, and and I don't
think, and this is where I goback to the insignificance a
little bit. I don't think it wasinsignificant at the time,
right? I do feel it wassomething maybe unnoticed at the
(34:11):
time, right? But man, likeinsignificant, such a hard work
for me, because it really takesaway the work of God in that
moment, right? Like we couldnever see the significance of it
in the moment. So it's somethingthat's unnoticed, right? It's
imperceivable, right? It's, it'ssomething that God has planted,
that's God says, hey, 10 yearsfrom now, this is going to be a
(34:32):
dramatic impact. No idea, andlet alone no relationship, no
growth over here. I mean, thatperson that was there was not in
seminary at the time, waslearning, at the time, was
growing, and just got ordained acouple of years ago, just went
like, no idea, right? There's noway that I could have known,
right?
Tom Helmich (34:49):
So it's like God took what was insignificant in
what you were doing and turnedit into something significant
for
Pastor Joe Liles (34:54):
somebody. Yes.
I mean, this goes back to whatyou were saying, right? Tebo,
that if we go through life, you.
Planting these seeds ofinsignificant, small moments, it
should reflect the largervision, like these small moments
should be lived out to where,yeah, we don't know what happens
next, but we know in every smallmoment there's an interaction
that creates something thatmoves forward beyond us. And I
think that's an importantreality in the life of the
(35:16):
church right that leads throughto other people's lives that may
not impact the neighborhoodchurch right? That doesn't have
an impact, or my conversationwith him does not have an impact
on the life of the neighborhoodchurch, right? It has an impact
on the kingdom, on the church,on the church, yeah, exactly,
church. And I don't even sayit's because of me, right?
That's because of the work ofGod in other places, right,
which is a beautiful thing tosee, right? That God's raising
(35:38):
up those people, yeah, and
Tom Helmich (35:39):
I should think of this scene from the Kung Fu
Panda
Pastor Joe Liles (35:43):
classic, hold on hold on hold on there are
four movies I want to thinkabout. What scene you're
thinking of the first movie,first movie in the sea is
Tom Helmich (35:53):
and Shifu is talking to like the little rat
or whatever the master or ninjamaster. Or ninja master,
whatever. Yeah, yes. Sir istalking to the old
Pastor Joe Liles (36:05):
turtle. Yes.
That's great. Yeah, I love theturtle monster. Yeah. Po Yeah,
Tom Helmich (36:09):
because Shifu thinks it's a waste of time.
Yep. And ugway is like, you justplant the seed and you have to
let
Pastor Joe Liles (36:14):
it grow.
That's it. Yeah, no control overthere underneath the tree, when
they're talking about this tree,yeah, that's great.
Tom Helmich (36:19):
Yeah. And, but chief was like, no, but, you
know, we can plant it where wewant it. We can, you know, put
it into the ground and and makeit be there. And who goes, like,
you be can't make it grow. Andif you plant a peach, you'll get
a peach. You can't make it anapple. Or, yeah, whatever the
terms were. And that kind ofshows like, the reality of what
our the simple part, what ourrole is in it, yeah, God gives
us seeds through our faith toplant, and then God grows them.
(36:41):
So like, we can't claim thatglory for ourselves. That's the
insignificance. Yeah, is ouraction, but we can't really
translate that over to thesignificance of what God is
doing through those seeds. Yeah,
Pastor Joe Liles (36:51):
that's exactly right. Yeah. One of my first
point in the message was thatthe seeds of faith that are sown
right should always be to servethe kingdom. That's it, right?
If it's to serve ourselves,we've failed in the mission of
what Christ is intending for usholy and fully. And so yeah,
let's open up scripture. Andjust kind of takes you. Now that
we've been talking about it,everyone pretty much knows the
Scripture because we'vereferenced the whole thing 10
(37:11):
times. But let's read it. Let'stake a second to read Scripture
and and then we'll get intoRoseanne notes after that. And
so Alright, table Do you want tokick us off? We're going to be
Matthew chapter 17, starting inverse 14, reading all the way
through 20, if you want to startus, yeah, all
Tevo Christmann (37:25):
right. Verse 14, when they came to the crowd,
a man came to him, knelt beforehim, and said, Lord, have mercy
on my son, for he is anepileptic and he suffers
terribly. He often falls intothe fire and often into the
water.
Tom Helmich (37:40):
And I brought him to your disciples, but they
could not cure him. Jesusanswered you, faithless and
perverse generation. Ouch, yeah.
How much longer must I be withyou? How much longer must I put
up with you? Bring him here tome,
Pastor Joe Liles (37:55):
and Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came
out of him, and the boy wascured instantly. Then the
disciples came to Jesusprivately, I love that line,
privately and said, Why could wenot cast it out? And He said to
them,
Roseann Bowlin (38:11):
because of your little faith, for truly, I tell
you, if you have faith the sizeof a mustard seed, you will say
to this mountain, move from hereto there, and it will move, and
nothing will be impossible foryou.
Pastor Joe Liles (38:27):
I just have to say we read the Scripture.
Roseanne preached the scripturethat was strong. Roseanne, that
was well done. You came instrong. I love it. So that's the
Scripture we've beenreferencing, and what we spoke
about on Sunday that led intothis kind of small seeds of
faith. Yeah, Jesus is harsh,right? In this it's hard to
hear. I mean, if anyone said inhere to me at any point, and
(38:49):
they said, How much longer mustI be with you? How much longer
must I put up with you? Right?
That's just a hard language atall in any person's life, as we
come through, and he's speakingto the disciples in the midst of
this group of people, and it'sit's interesting, because I
don't think it's directednecessarily at the father
bringing the epileptic son,right? Because in that reality,
yes, you would hope that thisfather has the faith Same deal
(39:11):
of a mother see of a mustardseed to heal and do these
things. But the disciples havebeen tasked with the mission to
go out and heal and cure. And sowith that, they've given, given
the power to do this, but havecome back unsuccessful, not
unfaithful, but unsuccessful inthat mission. And this language,
I believe, is that response tothat, they haven't lived out the
(39:31):
faith that was intended, right?
The intended to give glory toGod. And that was kind of the
second point of my message, wasthat. And it really kind of
stopped me as I think throughthe text, what does move the
mountain if you have the faithof a mustard seed, it's not a
glorification to show that youcan move a mountain, right? I
mean, that's that's just a showof force. It's a show of power.
(39:52):
It has to glorify
Tom Helmich (39:53):
God, yeah? Cuz it's gotta be God's power that moves
it
Pastor Joe Liles (39:56):
100% and so if we're trying to do these things
in our life, when we're. Notgiving glory to God on behalf of
it, then we're failing from thestart, right? That's where we
have little faith from thestart, is that it doesn't
glorify God in all that we do.
And so I see that here in thistext in a really incredible way.
But Roseanne, you were sittingin the church on Sunday, and so
what were your What was yourtakeaway from the message on
(40:16):
Sunday in a segment that we callRoseanne notes.
Roseann Bowlin (40:23):
That's so funny.
Okay, so I'm kind of wrapping acouple of thoughts here all up
together. But if you plant, ifyour faith is like a mustard
seed, which is very, very small,yeah, and it it's planted, it's
watered, it's nurtured. Itgrows. That's your faith
(40:45):
growing. But it grows from thewinds, like W, I N, S winds of
your prayer. So as you seeprayers answered, and you
glorify God for those answeredprayers, then your faith also
(41:08):
grows, and you can be thatstrong person who can give
advice and can say, I don't knowwhat God's plan is, but he's got
a plan, and we're going to moveforward.
Pastor Joe Liles (41:29):
So I love that faith. I had that moment this
morning, and I hadn't thoughtabout it when we were talking
about this before the podcast,but I had a direct moment where
I heard from God this morninglike you just need time with me
to pray like that. That was thatwas just the intentionality, and
it came through me not wantingto spend time doing that. I was
(41:49):
going on a run this morning. Ihave an hour and 21 minutes left
in this book that I've beenreading on on audio, and it's
fantastic. And I get reallyexcited when I get near the end,
because I get to finish a book,and I feel like I'm accomplished
and so and it's not a it's anovel. It's not a book where I'm
learning, it's just a book thatI'm I've been listening to, and
it's quirky, and it's right upmy alley, right? It's called
(42:10):
dungeon crawler, Carl. I don'tknow if you guys have heard this
at all. So it's, it's notanything you need to read
because it's a small market, butit's, it's just something that
is I'm able to run to and listento and enjoy, and it's just
enough to kind of say, Okay, Idon't often take time to read
for joy. So this has been great.
And I opened up my AirPods, andthey weren't in there, and I
realized, you know, there's amoment when you know you're
(42:33):
gonna about to go on an hourrun, and you're like, I'm gonna
be in my thoughts for an hour.
Like, this is not where I wantedto be thoughts. Oh yeah, I was
just a morning where I didn'twant to be. I love running. I
love running without music, likeI did my last 50k without music,
like I just ran. And I love thesounds, and it's beautiful. This
(42:55):
morning. I did not want that.
There's always a time when
Tom Helmich (42:57):
you don't want to have a conversation with
somebody. Man, sometimes thatcomes up when you don't want to
be had a conversation with you.
Conversation with yourself
Pastor Joe Liles (43:04):
either, you know. And I put them away, and I
was disappointed. It was one ofthose were like, I'm gonna go
back to my house, but it was 20minutes away. And I was like,
I'd ruin the whole 40 minutes.
And so I closed them, and I waslike, All right, just gonna go.
And that just means I have anhour, an hour in my head, and I
knew that my head was not in theright space. And I was like,
Man, I'm going to be thinkingabout everything for an hour.
(43:25):
And I was like, this is notgoing to draw on my day.
Yesterday, I felt so good aftermy run, and today, I was like,
Oh, I'm just going to be in it.
So I started running, I droppedKaylee off, and I start running
down the Greenway, and I'm just,I'm going my knees hurting a
little bit. And I'm like, God,this is just not where I want to
be this morning. And I was like,Okay. And so I kind of settled
in, you know, about a half milein, and I just heard God say,
(43:47):
hey, we have an hour to praytogether. Like, why don't you
just let your mind go and we'regoing to pray right now. And I
was like, and this, like, peacejust overwhelmed me. And I was
like, Yeah, I don't have to bein my head. I just had to take
time to pray and listen and soand so. I gave myself permission
for my mind to wander. I gavemyself permission to lift up
(44:09):
prayers as I heard them, right?
And I just spent the whole hourright, talking and listening to
God. And it was that moment,right? I wouldn't say I had a
win from it. And then therewasn't a huge revelation that
came from it, right? It was notyet. It would not yet. It was a
seed planted, and it just it satin that space in a really
wonderful way. So I love that itis about the winds of prayer,
and I think that's directlyrelated to Scripture too. Is
that our wins from prayer andand prayer theologically, isn't
(44:32):
like a winning, losingrelationship, but I think it's
always a lifting uprelationship, right? And that we
do feel there are times whenprayers are answered, but I
think there's also in times whenwhat we feel is insignificant
God is moving and weaving into astory of God's Kingdom work. I
had someone early on the churchsay it was the slow work of God.
It's always the slow work ofGod. And I was like, Yep, and
(44:55):
that is anti everything in thislife, right? How? We look
forward, we are a compelled,driven, ambitious society and
culture, and that moves at apace where the church is almost
counter cultural to that, andthat it is a work of faith all
of our life to just endure. Andso yeah, any other comments from
Roseanne? Notes The
Tevo Christmann (45:21):
to piggyback on what you said, the winds of
prayer are Jesus said, whateveryou ask in my name will be given
to you. And so the exercise ofprayer is one where you align
yourself to his name, right andand then you experience the
(45:41):
winds of prayer. And the windsof prayer is built in to the
aligning, yeah, yourself to Hiswill. So I think, yeah, I mean,
it doesn't mean every time youask for, we have to stay shy of
that prosperity gospel great,that every time you ask for a
car, you get a new car. And thenyou pray, you pray for a lake
(46:02):
house, and then, you know, then,then faith will be strong.
That's not, obviously, that'snot. That's not. What that means
the winds of prayer are, is, arethe changes that happen within
you? Yeah, in the exercise ofprayer, yeah, yeah. Sometimes
there are real, actual,physical, tangible wins, but
they come from that alignedperspective, you know. But
Pastor Joe Liles (46:24):
table, if I get a really nice house with a
big backyard, then I can bitepeople over, and we can do
discipleship studies in a reallybig backyard, right? Yeah, the
glorification,
Tom Helmich (46:35):
it's a hard balance of knowing what like what point
requires our action versusrequires our inaction. Yeah,
yeah. Because I think part ofwhen we actually try to live our
life out, you know, inspired byour faith and put that into
action, is sometimes that's kindof relinquishing ourselves to
God's authority instead of,instead of fighting it, yeah.
But then there's sometimes wherewe need to be activated to go do
(46:57):
something. Like, there's the,you know, the story of the man
on the roof and the water'sgetting higher, yeah, all these
people come to help him, and hedies. And he's like, God, why
didn't you save me? He's like,Man, I sent a boat. Yeah, no,
but thinking about this, it'slike, oh, the thing popped into
my head before we left thepodcast. So when Amy and I were
getting married, so this is 1999I got engaged in 98 and 99 I was
(47:22):
looking for a house. I wasrenting a house in a not
incredible neighborhood inRogers with two other guys one
block away from there, wherethey've been a couple of drive
by shootings. Actually,
Pastor Joe Liles (47:31):
that's not going to be the start of married
life. I'll tell you that two
Tom Helmich (47:36):
other dudes that you know, whatever and that
going on. And so we hired a realestate agent, and we're looking
for a house to buy. So becausethis is, this was in the
summertime, like, you know, May,June, and we're getting married
that November, and we saw a fewhouses with this real estate
agent, we told her what we'relooking for, something with a
decent sized front yard and afront porch, kind of back off
(47:57):
the road. And she kept showingus these big brick things with
no front porch right on theroad. What she was wanting to
sell, basically. And I said, Nowsomething we're looking for, I'm
really looking for this. And shejust quit calling us back. I
guess, technically, I'm stillwaiting for to call me back,
maybe. Oh, wow. She's Wow. She'squit calling back. Whoo. And it
was Amy's idea, listen
Pastor Joe Liles (48:13):
to this podcast, and that seed of faith
we just planted right there. Oh,I should get back to him,
Tom Helmich (48:17):
okay, but, and it's Amy's idea. We're at the sitting
in the couch in the living roomin that rent house, and this is
summertime. I still had myChristmas tree up because we
were three bachelors, you know,yeah, and we thought she had
what she did. She's like, whydon't we just pray about it and
then just let it go and we'lljust move on. Mm, hmm. And so I
was like, okay, so we and atthat point, for me, prayer was a
(48:38):
very private thing. We didn'tpray out loud around other
people. And there's a whole partof the Bible that, you know, go
and pray to your in secret. Yourfather, who's in secret, will
will hear in secret, you know.
And so not part of it, you know.
That was not big thing in thetradition, Lutheran tradition,
and praying out loud with otherpeople. So it was a little
awkward, but we did it, and thenwe forgot about it. It's just a
(48:58):
couple days later, I was goingto eat lunch in Fayetteville
with my mom. Yeah, driving downPleasant Grove Road, there's
nothing there, because back thenyou had to go to Fayetteville
to, like, get a decentrestaurant, you know? And
there's this piece of plywoodwith this For Sale sign stapled
on it and a handwritten phonenumber. And my mom's driving,
and she's like, what's that? I'mlike, I don't know. She's like,
Oh, that's look so she pullsinto this gravel driveway, and I
(49:19):
look down the driveway, and I'mlooking at the front of the
house we live in right now.
Pastor Joe Liles (49:22):
Oh, wow, still gravel. Yeah, it's still
Tom Helmich (49:26):
and I'm like, well, that's kind of cool. And so I
called Amy, she was working atback when it was St Mary's,
yeah, and told her about it, youknow. And so we drove by and
looked at it, and she's like,oh, yeah, that's nice house, you
know, you can afford that. Andand call my grandfather, and he
looked at it, and he's like,yes, good bit. You know, his
businessman, businessinvestment, if you like it, buy
(49:47):
it, move in. If you don't likeit, buy it, bulldoze it and sell
it, resell the land in 10 years.
Yeah, exactly. And so he'ssetting up an appointment. And,
I mean, I bought it in June orno, it was all. August, by the
time we got around to that pointis August. Bought it in August
and moved in, and then we weremarried that November. Wow,
that's great. And had nofurniture yet,
Pastor Joe Liles (50:08):
yeah, of course. Yeah, absolutely.
Tom Helmich (50:12):
But I know real estate helped us find that. I
didn't find it on a search,yeah, we literally said a prayer
and then just forgot about it.
And my mom on a whims like,what's down this road and just
turned into this random road weknow. Random road we never seen
before? Wow, yeah, sometimesthat happens. It just kind of
just showed up. Yeah, that'sgreat. At that moment, I'm like,
that's, that's not a coincidencethat ever happens to me. Yeah,
correct, you know, and, andthere's, they're building a
(50:34):
subdivision around it, andthey're building these much more
expensive homes, and the guy whoowned that two little over two
and a half acres that we havenow, didn't like the idea of
what they're doing these otherhouses, and was refusing to sell
property to the builder. That'sgreat, because they wanted to
incorporate that in theneighborhood, yeah. And he's
like, No. And so when I calledhim, he's like, oh, yeah,
getting ready to have, you know,young couple get married. Want
(50:56):
to have kids eventually, yeah.
And so we got it for a prettygood price, a lot less than what
the builder is absolutely goingto pay him for it. Yeah. And
we've been there for 26 years.
That's
Pastor Joe Liles (51:07):
awesome. Thank God, good. God is good. That's
great.
Tom Helmich (51:11):
Gosh, yeah. And no and no desire to ever move,
yeah, yeah.
Pastor Joe Liles (51:15):
So I think we've heard them as Bob as is,
pray in a beautiful way, right?
That is the evidence of whatglorifies God. Give glory to
God. That prayer, right? Beginwith everything, right? In the
series of prayer, yeah, beobedient. But trust God. That's
beautiful. So trust in God isgreat, because that is actually
next week's message. When youcome to understand small seeds
of faith, there's a great time.
(51:35):
Thanks Tom. Appreciate that.
Thanks for the transition. Yeah,that's good. Yeah, no idea,
yeah. So next week is abouttrusting God. It's really about
this identity of, how do welearn to trust God? And there's
two realities there. I would sayit out loud that one, if we're
in a faithful relationship withGod, and we're moving and we
feel like we're connected toGod, how do you continue to
trust God, right? And and Ithink take that next step in
saying that all that I've beengiven is God's that has been
(51:57):
given first. So what does thatmean to trust God with
everything that I have. That's ahard language. I think there's a
beautiful language within theright of a funeral that says, I
want to learn again to trust youGod. And I think there's a part
where we walk back to God,learning to trust God again in
the really hard times in ourlives. So we're gonna speak
about both those on Sunday as itcomes in, as we continue our
mountain mover series. And allGod's people
Unknown (52:20):
said, Amen.
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