April 30, 2025 • 44 mins
Join us as we dive deep into the faithful world of seminary education with Tom Helmich.
Tom shares his seven-year journey towards pastoral ordination through the Evangelical Lutheran Church and Wartburg Theological Seminary. This is an inside look at the rigorous process of becoming a Lutheran pastor. From psychological evaluations and theological interviews to clinical pastoral education and internships, Tom unpacks the multiple checkpoints and challenges of his seminary experience.
Through this podcast, you can gain insights into the spiritual, academic, and personal discernment required to answer a call to ministry. In addition to Tom's personal reflections, this episode demystifies the path to pastoral leadership and provides a narrative of faith, education, and calling through the Lutheran Church.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pastor Joe Liles (00:00):
Don't forget the jingle. Alright, welcome to
(00:04):
the TNC podcast. We have anexciting podcast today, kind of
a unique one. I would say. Ihave two podcast hosts with me
in studio. Roseanne is not heretoday. Let's just get that one
out of the what happened toRoseanne? She's out today. She
lives with her sister, runningsome things and helping her
sister out. She's got stuff todo, so she is out today. But you
know what? Today was an excitingday inside the church for a
(00:27):
special thing that happened withour one and only. Oh, Tom, Tom,
hell, that's right, I want yourpoint. Yeah, I was pointing at
you to say your name. That'sgreat, because, Tom, you had an
important thing in the life ofseminary happened today, which
is called approval, and we'regonna get to that in a second,
but we're gonna make thispodcast about your seminary
experience. And like, what isthe process of seminary coming
(00:50):
up? All Comedy of Errors.
Comedy, yeah. How many years?
How many years just right, rightat the gate? Seven years, seven
years in seminary? Is that? Howlong it normally takes?
Tom Helmich (00:57):
No, four.
Therefore, okay, yeah. Liketaking the slow route, yeah,
Pastor Joe Liles (01:01):
that's great.
That's great. And then joiningus also on the podcast, we have
the one, the only, the sametable, the same table, the same
as last week. Our podcast manyother weeks and many other
weeks. And so, yeah, we werekicking off a series this week
called church shopping. And thatseries is really about the years
of the different really churchexperiences and kind of, how did
church form from the beginning?
(01:23):
So we're talking this lastSunday, really, from, like, the
early church, after Christ'sresurrection, right, starting
through the ascension, right?
And then afterwards theapostles, kind of, starting
these communities of faith. Andlike, kind of, I would say,
really, 33 through 100 thechurch was persecuted, really,
from like 90, from a 90 to 100to all the way to, like 325
that's when, kind of, the churchcame out of, like the Roman
(01:44):
provinces, and really becamepersecuted. And so you get this
early church up through 325 nextweek, we're doing the
Reformation church, right? Theyear 1500 that was a newly
formed church, right? And thekind of the the split from
really Catholicism toProtestant, which is not
Catholic, and then, and thenwe're gonna go to 1990s on
Mother's Day, which I'm superlooking forward to. It's great.
(02:05):
I had people talking to me afterservice about the music they
remembered from the 90s, sayingthat they're inviting people
just to that service becausethey're like, I want to go back
into like, when I was in churchin those days. And like, follow,
what was the the Whoopi Goldbergmovie? Is it? Whoopi Goldberg
sister, with the Goldberg andmovie, that's the only one that,
Tom Helmich (02:24):
yeah, that's, that's why I think 90s church.
I'm thinking, like, yeah, purplesilk ties.
Unknown (02:30):
Oh, what was the movie that she blew at the traffic
lights, and then they wentgreen,
Pastor Joe Liles (02:34):
yeah? Ooh, Angel. Oh, I can't remember. I
want to say Angels in theOutfield, and that's so wrong.
That's where they flap, like theangels in the boy can, you know,
see angels and everything else
Tom Helmich (02:44):
like that. There was some really bad TV back
then. And I look back onwatching some of that stuff now,
I'm like, wow, yeah, it wasreally some of the best us from
back then. Yes, most of the bestmusic back
Pastor Joe Liles (02:54):
then. You think the best music? 90s, 80s,
90s. 80s, 90s. We had a belovedfuneral last Saturday for house
show, beloved friend of mine,beloved member of the church,
and he loves 60s music, so allthey wanted he
Tom Helmich (03:07):
was probably grown in the 50s, yeah. So what do you
realize people's favoritemovies, favorite type of music?
It's usually around the like,20s, yeah, right, absolutely
like when they're coming intotheir own personal identity,
apart from their family, andthen that gets concreted, yeah,
the rest of their life, yeah, nomatter how embarrassing that
movie or music is, yeah?
Pastor Joe Liles (03:28):
So here's crazy. I've started to play
music from my high school timeto Kaylee and Landon just to
say, like, Hey, here's what Iwent through, because Kaylee is
now in high school. Yeah,that's, that's the that's 97 so,
and as Landon would say, Dad,that's in the 1900s and I'm
like, so brutal, like, you'relike, wow, it just hits hard.
(03:50):
But then I bet they hate it onpurpose. No, I've actually got
them like to enjoy it. I mean,really, yeah. I mean, you're
going back to some good oldpunk, and you're going to decide
just like, early pop, you know,like just some good things are
happening during those times. SoI've played them the the range,
though, the range of things thatare going on and so, so they
kind of dig it, which is good.
It still hits the run mix everynow and then, I ran the half
(04:10):
marathon this year to a 90splaylist of just old school
music, which was great. And so,so things are good there. But
speaking of playlists, we have ajingle for the podcast.
Tevo Christmann (04:21):
I do a 1-234-793-6722, 85 neighborhood
church.
Pastor Joe Liles (04:31):
That's right, you too can call the
neighborhood church at479-367-2285, and talk to
Roseanne. She'll answer. Pickthat up. That is our church
number. We say that so everyonewill know it and memorize it.
It's also they jingle to Empire.
Yes, yeah. Well, we don't needto talk about we don't talk
about that. That's notcopyrighted. Take that away. We
didn't steal it. We didn't stealit. We came up with it on our
(04:53):
own. So let's talk through thisa little bit. So we're doing
church shopping. We're talkingabout the early church all the
way. Through, and we haveliterally someone who is getting
ordained in the month of May,Tom hellmuch on May 21 that is a
Wednesday night. Everyone fromthe church is invited. We have a
congregational meeting coming upbefore that, which would be on
the 18th and that is after thesecond service, and that is to
(05:15):
vote Tom hellmuch in. We hopethat goes well, because three
days later, you're gettingordained, the food will be good
way Bishop's going to be there.
What if it doesn't go well?
Change Wednesday, we'll
Tom Helmich (05:29):
either celebrate the ordination or celebrate the
No. Well, because it's also thelast meeting for the warehouse
for the semester. That's right.
So even without the ordination,it would have been a end of the
semester warehouse partycelebration. And so yeah, if
they say no, then we'll justhave the warehouse party and
Pastor Joe Liles (05:43):
we're building this up. So this is a
congregational meeting. So let'stalk about neighborhood church,
not traditional, like acongregational meeting type
church we've been doing. We didone last year, right? I believe
we did one the year before. Andthere's a couple things that
happen during a congregationalmeeting. One, you do business of
the church, right? Particularlythis time, the importance is to
vote in Tom as a called andordained pastor at the
(06:05):
neighborhood Church of care andeducation. We reveal kind of
title position, right? And thenwe have budget, right? So we go
through budget, right? And wekind of walk through, hey,
here's our budget that we'reapproving this year and
everything else. So we kind ofhave these different votes.
We'll introduce core teammembers, right? So you have core
team members, so it's really abusiness life meeting of the
church. But here's the crazything, everybody loves the idea
of a congregational meeting.
They love it. They want it. Itis something very important to
(06:27):
them. No one shows up tocongregational meeting. I'm
actually hoping this meeting,we're going to get maybe 75 to
100 people. The lastcongregational meeting we had, I
think we had 25 like maybe orlow 20s, low 20s, right? And it
was that,
Tom Helmich (06:40):
one that was that one was in the evening. Wasn't
it in the evening? So I'm
Pastor Joe Liles (06:43):
switching it up, because I'm gonna get, hey,
you attend second service. Wewill feed you. We're gonna cater
a lunch free 99 so you can comeover enjoy food while we're
meeting. It's one hour. We'regonna do a one hour meeting, and
then you're out the
Tom Helmich (06:55):
door. That's a hard part. When you get the logistics
wise, and you go to twoservices. Is the first service,
they left and been gone a whilethey've been gone. They're not
gonna come back. Probably theywon't they won't. They won't.
The first service or the secondservice, they're going to be
hungry. It's lunchtime, yeah? Soyou might get some of them,
yeah, the first service, it'sSunday, they're home. They got
their house shoes on, maybe evenif it was me, and be back in my
(07:15):
pajamas, you know, or chillingon the couch, you know. So it's
absolutely hard to get thosepeople back,
Pastor Joe Liles (07:20):
absolutely, absolutely. So that's going to
Tevo Christmann (07:22):
come up unless, unless they care. Yeah,
Tom Helmich (07:25):
right. Oh, really want to be there. They really
want to be
Pastor Joe Liles (07:29):
there. We are providing these things. So you
may know about the I understand
Tevo Christmann (07:32):
it if you don't care. Yeah, like, hungry,
Pastor Joe Liles (07:36):
but like, please Jesus just come and care
that we have these wonderfulthings happening in the church.
So Tom, I really want to breakdown the process of seminary. I
want this to be like a discoverypodcast. Hey,
Tevo Christmann (07:47):
actually, I have a question. Oh, wow. What
is ordained? Where does it comefrom? Oh, what does the word
even mean? And
Tom Helmich (07:56):
what superpowers do you get after it? Oh,
superpowers. None whatsoever.
None. Completely gypped on that.
Yeah. So the idea of ordination,because the Lutheran church, we
believe in the priesthood of allbelievers, which is what Joe is
me preaching on that Wednesdaynight, and five for 5%
Pastor Joe Liles (08:12):
okay, I'm gonna remember that we're just
learning that banking, orbanking, the question of, What
does ordination mean, and whatsuperpowers Do you have? Yeah,
that question is banked. Yeah.
We're gonna hold that for asecond. Tom, can you talk about
but you just said, because thiswas new information to me as of
Sunday, which was great, so Iemailed you, like, three days
before that. You didn't email methree days before. That's
correct. I didn't get to thatpart. So no, so the
Tom Helmich (08:34):
ordination is in the a service of Word and
Sacrament. So yeah, where youhave, like, what we do every
Sunday, and usually havesomebody come to preach, and
then the bishop does theirthing. And so it's a whole
liturgy, yeah, there's a wholeorigin, right? That we're paring
down to certain things that haveto be there because of
ecumenical agreements, yup, sobecause of the understanding of
(08:56):
ordination is, there's nosuperpower you don't get
suddenly this, like this, youknow, all sudden you get a
direct, like, personal backdoorphone number to God to answer
questions, you know, or anyhigher authority. When
Pastor Joe Liles (09:08):
I went through, I did,
Tevo Christmann (09:10):
yeah, you don't get to, like, shoot rays, no,
no,
Tom Helmich (09:14):
nothing like that, because we understand the idea
of the priesthood of all, allbelievers. It's the duty of
everybody to preach the gospelthat we have in the office of
Pastor. That's why we don't usethe word priest, because all
everybody's called to thepriesthood the office of
pastors. Like as a Christian,you lead worship. You know, some
people may work in a hospital,some people may sell shoes, some
(09:34):
people may be a teacher. Somepeople may, you know, whatever
they do for a living. And Luthereven said that the shoe maker
doesn't be isn't a goodChristian by putting little
crosses on his shoes, but bymaking good shoes, everything we
do in society, every job is away of serving those around us.
Yep. And so we are all equalwhen it comes to authority over
the gospel and Scripture andpreaching the Word. I'm just the
(09:54):
one that's been delegated to dothat for a living while
everybody else is doing theirother jobs. And
Pastor Joe Liles (09:59):
I think I would, I would. Just add to it
too, that it was really meant tocreate structure within the
church. That
Tom Helmich (10:03):
way you there's control over who's preaching it,
because we know in Christianity,all the denominations is such a
wide variety, it's like thisperson has been trained, which
is not required under alldenominations. This person has
been educated, trained, beenbeen tested and reviewed and
discerned, and that we aresaying yes, this is a valid
call, and we are choosing thisperson to proceed with preaching
(10:25):
the gospel, presiding over thesacraments, doing all the things
that I'll have to say yes to.
Tevo Christmann (10:29):
So the ordination service is just a
sort of a celebration or aritual, or I would write
Pastor Joe Liles (10:36):
a call or ordination, right? It's a right,
yeah, so,
Tevo Christmann (10:40):
but it doesn't invest you with any extra power
of any kind.
Tom Helmich (10:45):
It's, there's the the laying on of of hands, which
is like that symbolic. We're,we're, we're like an anointing
you like, this is now yourresponsibility. This is, you
know, your charge to, to goforth. And it kind of tries to
invoke a lot of what went on atPentecost, where the, you know,
the praying for the Spirit tocome on and bless the person in
their ministry, but no actualtongues of fire, or hopefully no
(11:07):
doors blowing open from wind,because it's tornadoes, you
know, tornado season and stufflike
Tevo Christmann (11:12):
that, you know.
So then, just so then, if thereis like, after you ordain, the
the ordination is purely aboutsort of institutional structure,
cohesion. There's nothingspiritual. Well, there's,
there's, there's invocation of
Tom Helmich (11:27):
the spirit to to bless the ministry of the
person. But no superpowers, nospecial powers or authority over
God or anything. Just aspiritual the idea of a
spiritual blessing to help theperson doing it, you know, that
will do it with the help and theinspiration of the Holy Spirit.
And the
Tevo Christmann (11:45):
word ordination comes from what
Pastor Joe Liles (11:48):
I don't know.
Yeah, it's actually probably
Tevo Christmann (11:51):
Latin or donatio, or, yeah, right,
Tom Helmich (11:53):
probably, probably, it may come from, like,
anointing or something, yeah,
Pastor Joe Liles (12:02):
that's actually good research. I'd love
to know where that word camefrom, like, your etymology,
yeah. So the other importantdistinction about being ordained
is that there were previouslytwo rosters of ordination,
right? And we still understandordination of two different
rostered individuals, right? Wehave ordained pastors and we
have ordained Deacons in thechurch, right? So a couple
things that Tom was talkingabout, which makes it
(12:22):
interesting is one you mighthear of a pastor from another
denomination, right? SoMethodist, Presbyterian,
Episcopal, those differentthings, right? Your mainline
Protestant denominations, theyall have their own ordination
practices and their ownordination path, right? So we
don't have one path that existsfor all Protestant
denominations, right? TheLutheran ELCA has their own
(12:43):
ordination path. You know, evenWisconsin and Missouri and
Lutheran will have a differentordination path, and true of the
denominations, right? So whenyou hear of pastor that is
unique to the denomination ornon denomination, and the reason
I say that is because you can goto churches who say, hey, love
that you've been serving here inthe kids ministry. That's super
awesome. We would love to makeyou our kids pastor. And they
(13:05):
go, oh gosh, I would love that Ifeel called. And they go, great.
We're going to invite you upnext Sunday and we'll kind of
install you as the kids pastor.
And that's they're now the kidspastor. They are not ordained
according to our understandingof what it means to be a pastor.
The same would be true if you goto like the church of online,
Jesus Christ, which many peoplehave done, and I forget what
it's called, gosh, there's aname. There's a specific name,
(13:27):
where you can go be orderedChurch of online, Jesus Christ.
It's literally called like, thechurch of like online and like,
you can be ordained by going tothem, paying money, and they'll
give you an ordinationcertificate so you can perform
marital you do weddings,weddings, and it's like my
brother is ordained, which we'vehad no conversations about, but
I have feelings about mybrother's ordained so he could
marry some people, which, andeven as a pastor, I particularly
(13:50):
still love the fact that peopleare looking for this, even if
it's outside the church, right?
I'm always a believer that, likebringing God into people's lives
is important. I believe thereare levels of that. But at the
same time, I see this happeningall throughout, right, where
people are now just pastors,right? They go. I do feel like
for someone who goes to seminaryfor seven years, for someone who
(14:12):
spent four years in seminary,right, steeped in tradition,
steeped in kind of a theologicalgrounding, there is a difference
there, right? And so when welook at it as Lutherans, there
is an understanding when itprovides order to the church,
right, when you come and youunderstand that you're in a
Lutheran church and there's anordained pastor, you understand
that they have gone through fouryears of seminary and a process
of ordination that includescandidacy. It includes a
(14:35):
chaplain moment right, where yougo out and you have your
Clinical Pastoral Education.
Includes theologicalunderstanding. It includes
languages. It includes anapproval right, includes an
internship, right? Like, allthese things go through, it
includes psych evaluations rightto make sure, like, if you want
to go to the psychological side,right, I had many psych evals
coming into this right, and wasapproved for certain things and
not approved for other things.
(14:55):
And so you get to this wonderfulprocess that we have that is
really trying to say. We havepeople caring for other people,
right, in a theological and careway, for emotional and spiritual
health of someone that needs tobe cared for in and of itself.
And so you have ordained pastorsthat's toward in sacrament. So
Tom will be an ordained pastorto word in sacrament. That means
(15:16):
that one you can preach, right?
But you're not preaching onWednesday. You told me to
preach, so I get to preach onthat Wednesday. I had the bishop
in for that reason, so I didn'thave to preach on that day. And
Tom's like, why aren't you? AndI was like, it's only five to
seven minutes. No, yeah, right,I won't preach 30. Does it bring
a hot and so you have word insacrament. We have two
sacraments in Lutherantradition, baptism and
communion. So we preside overthe elements right of baptism
(15:38):
and communion, and also theword, then you have the ordained
deacons, right? They are alsoordained, but they are ordained
a word and service. They're theextension from the church to the
outside world. It doesn't meanpastors can't do that, but what
you do see is the distinguishesthat deacons will not preside
over the elements, right? Orthey won't preside over baptism,
(15:58):
and so they are not they have toget special dispensation from
the Synod through the bishop inorder to do something like that,
and it's only in the absence ofan ordained pastor. So that's
where you get into some like,real kind of right of passage,
right? There's a right thatcomes into what does this
ordination mean? How does thisexist in an order of the church
we are then cared for by thebishop. The bishop has another
(16:21):
element above us. It would bekind of our boss in the Lutheran
church, right? That bishop hastheir own right, and they're
installed as a bishop. And so weget to this wonderful process
where Tom is at right now, andthat was kind of this morning.
But I want you to take us back,because you went through
approval today. Approval is
Tom Helmich (16:38):
one of the final second approval of how many of
two?
Pastor Joe Liles (16:42):
Of two? Yeah.
And so before we talk aboutapproval today, which you
literally had the hour beforethis podcast, like you were
fretting from your approvalinterview into this podcast, and
I haven't even heard about ityet, so I'm excited to see the
questions they asked. Can youwalk us through what is the
seminary process?
Tom Helmich (16:58):
Because it's not you think of seminary as
education, but like for theLutheran churches, I think all
the different Lutheran churches,Roman Catholic Church, you can't
just decide to go to seminary.
That's why I thought I'd just goto seminary for the education.
That's not how that works. Yeah,like you for them to to because
of the amount of time and effortthat goes into it, for you to
take part in that program, eventhough you have to pay for it,
you have to be approved to bethere and do it. You can, you
(17:18):
can register the first semester,but then you can't go on to the
second semester without positiveapproval paperwork from the
Senate. So when I started, Istarted talking to you about it
on the ride to Senate Assembly.
And then we what year
Pastor Joe Liles (17:33):
was that? 2018 2018 Okay, yeah, that was great,
yep. And
Tom Helmich (17:37):
so like spring of was it 17? No, it was 17 because
about a year before they able toget started. Yep. So 2017
because I had to meet withPastor Karen in Bella Vista. She
was the candidacy committeechair. And, like, you know, the
conversation, you know, why areyou interested? Okay, here's the
process here, and they very muchput it on you, like, here's what
(17:57):
you need to do, and then yougotta go do it. Like they don't
help you along the way, likeit's, you know, you've gotta be
able to to have the initiativeto go and do these steps. And
then I met with another pastor,as a retired pastor, for a
second opinion, or whether ornot they should even entertain
the idea of the interviews forthe process. And then once he
signed off on it, I enrolled inseminary, started doing the
(18:18):
paperwork for entrance. Yeah,and so for entrance, I did a the
psychological evaluation with apsychiatrist. Yeah, had to talk
to him twice, because I had tore answer some of
Pastor Joe Liles (18:28):
the questions.
What
Tom Helmich (18:31):
do you talk to? I sent the paperwork in, and I had
to drive to Tulsa, and he met mein the lobby at his clipboard,
and he said, Hey, I want you tolook at some of these questions.
And the, it's the MMPI. I mean,I've done, oh yeah, this I did
once for the Sheriff's Office,once for Rogers. PD, because to
be armed as an armed lawenforcement officer, you have to
have psych eval, right? Yep. Andso I'm familiar with it. I had
psychology classes my undergrad.
Like, I know what this is. Andso being kind of snarky is,
(18:53):
like, what I get some of themwrong. And he's like, no sense
of humor. He's like, Well, youknow, there's not really any
wrong answers. And I want tosay, Well, then why are you
bringing the papers back out?
You know, he said, I just kindof wonder about if these are
completely honest. And I waslike, Okay. He's like, Well,
like you whether or they're not,you worry about, you know, on a
scale of one to 10, how much doyou worry about health, body
(19:16):
image, finance, all this stuff.
He said, Just something, like,you worry about that whole lot.
I'm like, nah. I'm kind of, Imean, I was, you know, 40 years
old, you know, like, No, I mean,I'm, I'm good, yeah. He's like,
What about this one you say, youknow, on a scale of one to 10,
how often do you worry aboutsomebody trying to kill you?
That's like, a six. I'm like,Well, I'm a cop. I wear body
armor for a living. And he'slike, Oh, shit, never mind. Come
on, in this that's fine. He'slike, cops and firefighters have
(19:37):
a completely differentperspective on life. It's always
different, yep, which means hedidn't read the first page of
the package. Yeah,
Pastor Joe Liles (19:43):
no, yeah. He didn't read because it has
occupations, just looking at thetest. That was it. So I did the
Tom Helmich (19:47):
psych eval, and then I did go to a psychologist
for a career counseling session,yep, and he wrote out his
evaluation, and then that allwent to the Senate office, and
then I got a date for. Myentrance interview, yeah. And I
had to do about 1520, pages ofessay on different questions of
theology, faith, background, and
Pastor Joe Liles (20:09):
this is without going in knowing,
knowing nothing, just kind ofgive you a blanket just to see
where you're at. Where are youat? Yeah, right. What have you
learned? Right? And I had
Tom Helmich (20:15):
to ask questions like, when and where were you
baptized? So I had to call myparents and dig that up,
because, you know, it's infantbaptism. Wonderful, traditional
thing, okay, but it had to, Ihad to ask, because I don't, I
don't remember, you know, andthen do they, they bring you in
there, and they ask you a wholebunch of questions after reading
your essay, and then they sendyou out of the room for about 10
(20:37):
minutes and talk about you. Andthen they bring you back in, and
then tell you yes or no, butbefore they tell you yes or no,
they read a form and have youanswer these questions about and
some of them, I'm like, I haveno idea. What are you associated
with such and such group? I'mlike, I have no idea what that
is. And she's like, okay, thenyou're not, yeah, you know it's
like, Freemasons and stuff likethat, because there's issue
about, like, apostolicauthority, yep, and then they
(20:57):
vote yes. Now you're entranced.
Now you can continue inseminary. Yep,
Pastor Joe Liles (21:01):
and that is on that is only true. So just going
back for a second, if you passyour psychological interview,
yes, is that psychologicalinterviews ago? No, go. Yeah. If
you don't pass that, you're out.
And
Tevo Christmann (21:10):
that's all after one semester already. No,
before you ever during the
Pastor Joe Liles (21:14):
first walking in with most
Tom Helmich (21:16):
people do it beforehand, yeah, because the
way my cycle worked, I wasalready enrolled, because I
actually had to have somebody atthe library proctor the psych
eval, written evaluation to sendoff to him. So then I got
entrance, so I got to go tostart taking classes. But then
every November, I have to do aweekend retreat with a candidacy
committee, so they continue toget to know you. And you know,
(21:37):
where's
Pastor Joe Liles (21:37):
your candidacy committee at Tulsa, Oklahoma,
right? So it's where you've comefrom. It's your people are on
site for seminary. And somepeople attend seminary from a
distributed learning,
Tom Helmich (21:46):
right? But regardless that, that candidacy
committee retreat is at the thebishop's office, yeah, it was in
Tulsa, so I did that. And then,you know, then all the, all the
academic stuff, doing thatevery, every November, right
smack dab in the middle of deerseason, and then deer season,
yeah, yeah,
Pastor Joe Liles (22:07):
we're not concerned about the concern,
because, yeah,
Tom Helmich (22:12):
Deirdre, but then you have midway through before
you do internship, you have toget endorsement. And so now you
have the Internship Committeethat has to do the endorsement
interview, and the faculty to doan endorsement interview, yep.
And so it's another 20 pages ofessay, theological questions.
And now endorsement
Pastor Joe Liles (22:30):
is after internship before. It's before
before.
Tom Helmich (22:34):
So you have to get endorsed to be able to go do
internship, and then you have todo your CPE, which not remnant
denominations. You
Pastor Joe Liles (22:40):
did your CP backwards, because I did my CP
before internship I did too.
Yeah. Okay, yeah. So
Tom Helmich (22:45):
I retired. I had to retire before I could do CPE,
yeah, because of conflict withconfidentiality, okay, like,
there's some, you know, so that,Oh, I get that. So I retired. I
did my endorsement interviewswith the faculty panel and the
committee panel, they both saidyes, and then I got to do CPE,
and then a full time semester.
And then can you just explain topeople what CPE, clinical,
Pastoral Education, and what isthat it's like, it's the care
(23:06):
aspect, like when somebody's inthe hospital and you go to visit
with them, only you spend 400hours. Yep, it's all summer.
It's like three, three and ahalf months. And mine is split
between a care facility inFayetteville for the elderly
that had a nursing home memorycare in the Arkansas Children's
Hospital. Yeah, through verydifferent conversations, oh
yeah. Oh yeah, both ends oflife, yeah, both ends of life
(23:26):
only both times. It's oftendying at both ends of life,
which is kind of toughconversation. And then more
academics, and then theinternship, a year, full year
long internship that I had splitbetween here in Saint Luke,
yeah. And then I went back infor another semester. At this
point, I've been there longerthan a lot of the faculty, yeah?
And then I had to do theendorsement, because to to
finish the program, because youget the degree, the masters of
(23:49):
divinity degree, which hasnothing to do with Harry Potter,
it's not divination, it'scompletely different divinity.
That's great, yeah, that's thequestion I get to you, if they
have that masters of divinitymaster's degree, which is a
master's degree, but it's 116hours, so it's like a couple
hours shy of another bachelor'sdegree, correct? Yep. Which most
masters are? Like, most mastersare half years, yeah, half of
that have a four year masters,yeah? Which is two regular for
(24:11):
four years? Like, you can be adoctor, yes? Like, yes, yeah. So
then I had to do more essays andsend submit a couple of written
manuscripts of sermons andvideos of sermons that I
preached, yeah. And then I getthe endorsement, where the
bishop's office to include thebishop do all the the questions,
(24:31):
ask your random questions abouttheology and how you articulate
this and that. And then theyvote, and they tell you if you
pass or not, yeah. And then thislast one I did today was to fill
up. They call the form d. I haveno idea what D I have no idea
what D stands for, the languagefrom the seminary that the
faculty panel after myinterviewers bring that
information to them, they voteon whether or not they want to
to approve me for pastoralministry. Yeah, and I have to
(24:54):
have that faculty approval fromthe whole faculty board to
continue on and. Be ordained,and that will happen the week
before. So
Pastor Joe Liles (25:02):
let me just walk through the structure. So
you have a psychologicalinterview, which is a go, no go,
yep, right for seminar, and acareer counseling interview, and
then a career counselinginterview, and then you have
entrance Yes, which is a go, nogo, which is a go, no go. Then
you have your first year, andyou get to Clinical Pastoral
Education. But I had with me Iwas three or four years in
before, okay, yeah, so it was alittle bit different process.
(25:22):
It's only two years in, yeah,you do this, the clinical
Exactly, right? So you do this,so that is also at the same time
a pass fail, right? Because ifthat's from your Clinical
Pastoral Education supervisor,which will give you a pass fail
and how you did during thatyear, and then you have to come
back to seminary and go throughanother interview process that's
a pass fail. And when I saypass, fail, these are moments
when you exit seminary, if thisis not
Tom Helmich (25:44):
your dope. And I've seen people get that interview
where they get a no, yep, andthen they're just they're done.
Pastor Joe Liles (25:49):
So that's one to two years in, right? So by
one to two years in, we've hadfour times at which right
seminary, your seminary timecould be over, right? Then you
go through internship, right?
And that's another and
Tom Helmich (26:00):
then you get an Internship Committee at the at
the congregational level thatevaluates you, yeah. And then
that language goes to thecandidacy committee at the
bishop song, which evaluatesabout you, a evaluate you. And
then it goes to to contextualeducation, yeah, that evaluates
it.
Pastor Joe Liles (26:14):
So that's three times there just on
internship where you couldreceive a No, right? Yeah. And
you're done, and then you'redone, and then you get through
the internship. Now, yourcoursework is there. You still
have to complete yourcoursework. Now, coursework is
generally like a credit. Nocredit is kind of what they've
gone to. They're still doinggrades,
Tom Helmich (26:31):
and a lot of some of them, like I have some that
are that are graded, and somethat are just pass fail. So you
still
Pastor Joe Liles (26:35):
have to pass those in order to actually
graduate with the masters ofdivinity. They've got their
accreditation standard? Yeah,exactly. So you have to be
accredited, right? And thenfinally, your approval. In my
mind, there's eight or ninetimes during seminary, which I
think is gets a little bit backto this ordination, right? Is
that there's eight or nine timeswhen we go through seminary
where we are literally walkingthrough a process of, hey, this
(26:57):
is a path or not a path, right?
And we go through that entiretime, and at each step there are
people one that are receivingNo,
Tom Helmich (27:04):
and it's a lot of people. It's a lot of people
process that are doing all theinterviews, yeah. And
Pastor Joe Liles (27:08):
there are times when people late into the
process receive a no, and thereare times late in the process
where people discern this isn'tthe route for them. There's
times late in the process wherethey discern Lutheran isn't for
them, right? And so I've seenall those, especially when I
went through seminary, and I'msure you've seen it in the 19
years you've been going toseminary. Been going to
seminary, and so, so, so this isinteresting. So can you walk us
through today? Like, I'm veryintrigued. So I went through
(27:30):
approval also, right? And Ithink I shared this with you,
right? When at the approval,it's, it's really a kind of an
understanding and a conversationabout your theology, right? Like
taking in the four years ofunderstanding and how you've
rooted yourself in the narrativeof Lutheran theology and what
that means. And then so they askyou questions about your faith,
right, different things likethat. And I remember Nate from
bot, who I said hi to today onyour approval interview, was
(27:52):
also my supervisor, so I jumpedon today and just said hi. But
when I went through and theywere talking to me, they asked
me about, you know, just, hey,what would you say about your
theology? And so I recited theApostles Creed, but they didn't
think that was funny. But Istill think, like, at a base
level, like we're grounded here,like we are grounded, but in
your own words, but that's whatthey're going to say in your own
words. Let's go So, and it'svery important to think through
(28:14):
that, right? It's not just this,this atmosphere where we repeat
what we've learned, right? Wereally have to think through
physiology. So today, in yourapproval, like, can you share
with us some of the questionsthat they asked you?
Tom Helmich (28:26):
It's hard to even, you know, it was, it was good,
short meeting. It's only anhour.
Pastor Joe Liles (28:29):
Yeah? They said it's gonna be real short,
which I thought 15 minutes.
Yeah, I did. They went for anhour and an
Tom Helmich (28:33):
hour, yeah? And both of the people my interview
had been my advisors at onepoint, because I've been there
long enough I had to have twobecause sabbatical came up for
Nate and, you know, and so they,you know, they go through and
they read my approval essay,there was like 20 pages
beforehand, and then they couldnitpick that, but they didn't
really pick into that, okay, askquestions about, like, okay, in
(28:55):
your preaching, becauseProfessor Sam Gary is a former
professor of homiletics, whichis a fancy word for for
preaching. It's like, you knowwhat themes to people that hear
you preach? We're currentlyhere, yeah. And at some point
time I brought up said that,yeah, I like the story based to
be able to engage people in realworld scenarios and to kind of
keep their attention. And I diddo the Gallagher thing at the
(29:17):
neighborhood once brought in awatermelon and sledgehammer like
you did not, that's good. I'mlike, Oh, I absolutely did.
Yeah, here's the situation,here's the reading and how it
worked. I did not actually smashthe watermelon because two
services clean up by passed outponchos. And the point people
were worried enough, parentswere picking their kids up off
the front row and moving themback of the church. But here's
(29:38):
kind of what I did, how I woundit up, and he's just smiling.
He's like things you could do atthe neighborhood that you could
not get away with a lot of otherchurches ask a lot about you,
like youth ministry and faithformation with teens, because I
know I do a lot of that, okay?
And then at one point, then theythrow some wild ones out there.
And sometimes, I think it'ssometimes just to try to throw
you for a loop. Yeah, right. Um.
(30:00):
And talking about, like, how youhow you proclaim the gospel, how
you proclaim the good news andgrace. And he's like, Okay, how
you relate that to the cross,you know, to get and get into
the idea of, you know, theologyof the cross and the some
symbolism of that for in achurch. And like, what would you
do different based on contextyou're at, you know, you know.
So someone's like, what wouldyou do different at the
(30:20):
neighborhood about how you dosome of that stuff. So I know
through, like, if it was, if Iwere the senior pastor, these
are some changes that I would
Pastor Joe Liles (30:27):
just said, senior pastor. What's the senior
pastor? It's the the one who'sthere first. Gosh, I'm glad you
said it that way, because, like,I'm hitting 43 this year. So
times are coming. Doesn't meanelderly Yeah, it doesn't mean
elderly.
Tom Helmich (30:38):
Pastor, yeah, because you'll, you'll turn 43
and round for that, I'll turn50. Yeah, it's very true. Yeah,
you'll take the senior it's justfunny. It's like, you'll be the
senior pastor, but I'll bepastor, but I'll be older than
you. Yeah, that's right. And sogo through, like, some of the
things that I would dodifferent, yeah? Oh,
Pastor Joe Liles (30:52):
well, let's pause. I'm intrigued. What would
you do different? Tom,
Tom Helmich (30:56):
oh, well, like that cross mural kind of thing over
there, the
Pastor Joe Liles (31:00):
cross. Can
Tom Helmich (31:02):
you describe it for people that are listening? Yeah.
So it's and we had it at the onI Street, Yep, that was our that
was our storefront. Or this is istreet, but on the storefront
church, yep, and Gary rebuilt itover here. And it's a sneak kind
of wood collage that has arelief and that kind of the back
and some of the shape of across, correct back light. It's
a really, really neat artisticway of doing it, I would take
(31:22):
the cross, which is central toall Christian theology and
salvation, off of the side wall,and put it dead center in the
worship space. Okay, yeah.
Because what everybody see, youknow, what you center in
worship, is, like, the crux themost important thing, yeah. And
what people are seeing is themost important thing when they
come in here intuitively, is thescreen and the band, yeah, so I
wouldn't put the band in theback. That doesn't work for
(31:43):
leading people through worship,right? Like a lot of churches,
like, it was like, what St Luke,the choir is the very back.
Like, everybody's got their
Pastor Joe Liles (31:54):
back turned.
Oh my gosh, stream on it. It'slike, the bounty setup of choir
over there.
Tom Helmich (31:58):
You know, I would rearrange this a little bit, but
I put the cross dead center,because everything should be
focused on the cross, becausethat's the music helps draw in
the emotive aspect of worship.
But what actually does the deed,that promise of eternal life, is
what Jesus did on that cross,and that is, to me, that needs
to be front and center.
Pastor Joe Liles (32:16):
Can I just say, you know, what I love is
that uniquely this week, becausewe had the funeral on Friday, we
had placed our good Friday crossat the center focus right when
people walk in. So the wholetime we're saying this uniquely,
there's a giant cross right whenpeople walk in Sunday.
Tom Helmich (32:29):
Look at that. Going here on Sunday morning, on
worship, it's, you know, it'sbehind them, yeah, you know,
like, where are you focusing?
You know, your your worship andthe altar. Because we, we've got
the cross off to one side thealtar the other, yep. And it's,
you know, symbolism only thatgoes as far as what people
understand the symbol, right?
But like, to me, the the altarbelongs at the foot of the
cross. So I would put the altarlike, up here. I'd have to rear
(32:51):
you'd have to rearrange stagestuff, because you have to be
able to get behind it. I don'tlike standing at the altar. My
back turned to people, yeah,which a lot of churches do. A
lot of traditional churches, youhave the altar against the wall
at workburn, the chapel, thealtar is against the wall. So
the wall, yeah. And so you'relooking at the back of the
person presiding, whereas, likea Saint Luke King walked behind
it, yeah. And so like, havingthe altar at the foot of the
cross, and then, like, all theband stuff going on around it,
(33:12):
so all the focus is thesymbolism of the cross and the
altar and the thing, all theelements. And then I would, we
can't rip the screen in half,but I'd move two screens off to
either side so that you haveroom for the cross dead center,
so people can look at what'sgoing on on our screens on
either side, but their focus,because, like, my interest in
maybe doing a PhD later on, isin practical theology. Like,
(33:32):
what are the the practicalthings that we get? Like, when
you talk to somebody and you getbody language, yeah, that
sometimes tells a very differentstory. Yeah, it's the same thing
in worship. There's a bodylanguage of the church that
tells a different story. And youcan tell people that during
worship singing a song that arereally aren't into it and aren't
engaged, and you can tell whenpeople are and those symbols
that we have have a kind of itsown body language of the church,
(33:54):
of what it is that we'reprojecting to to the people. And
so for me, I would rearrange theworship space and get rid of the
big screen and put two smallones on either side of the
Tevo Christmann (34:03):
cross. Yeah, what do you I think it's your
rat fighting changes.
Tom Helmich (34:07):
But here's the thing with Avery pastor, like,
the hard part is having twopastors at one church, because
everybody, because they spentall
Tevo Christmann (34:14):
these years, that's why one is senior for
right? Because you get all this,like, leadership
Tom Helmich (34:18):
training, how to how to lead it, and then you're
like, there's two of you andthere's like, one of you is
leading, one's not leading. Aseparate aspect of it, you know,
because everybody do itdifferent, yeah, well,
Pastor Joe Liles (34:26):
it's funny when you say that, because when
I first planted the church, Ihad to get approval from the
bishop on worship, and that wedid, right, which is still the
same ledger that we do today,actually, and to come through on
that. And the first thing I wantto do was two screens on either
side right. It was almost asimilar setup, two screens on
either side right. And then wehad crosses focused in the
(34:47):
center right. And there was twobecause it
Tom Helmich (34:49):
used to be at the other church. It was that cross
was dead center.
Pastor Joe Liles (34:51):
Yeah, it was dead center in the back right.
And so, so we started that way.
I didn't get approval for twoscreens. That was, that was too
much. Money. I was not allowed.
No, just was no. Like, it wasn'teven based on money. It was, I
cannot have, like, like piecesgot to, you know? Oh, yeah,
well, yeah, I install screensfor churches now. And so, like,
one of those things that we donow is say, great, it's, it's
(35:12):
really on helping people withthe liturgy, right? And helping
them walk so you just make iteasy for them to see the
literature, yeah? But they said,No, I couldn't do that. And
then, and then I said I wasgoing to have communion once a
month, right? In order toembrace that. And I said, Nope,
you have to have communion everysingle Sunday. And I said, Okay.
And so we started from there,right? So, yeah, there was
(35:32):
actually the original design andand we floated back and forth.
So it's interesting thing, yeah,because we had two crosses when
we started, we had, we builtthis behind, I
Tom Helmich (35:40):
remember, yeah, I remember, like, we did so many
wall, wall knockouts and stuffin there, yep, but when we
brought it over here, like itwas from a much smaller space,
oh, gosh, yes, the wood tomatch, like, yeah, doing that
necessarily would be hard to doit, just otherwise, you'd have
to do something else. Do
Pastor Joe Liles (35:57):
you remember where we got that wood from? Do
you remember that story was thatthe flooring? Because there's
that at Airport Boulevard, yeah.
So we were over there in thestore. It was like a salvage or
something, wasn't it? So thatwas from JB Hunt, and one of
their facilities in Rogerscalled us and said, Hey, we have
all this walnut paneling thatwe're about to get rid of. And
they said, Could you use it? AndI had no idea what to use it for
(36:19):
and look. And I was, like,walnut handling. Like, legit
wanted, like, yeah. And I waslike, Well, come take a look at
and it's gorgeous, walnutfamily.
Tom Helmich (36:27):
Yes, that's one thing that I'm not good. Like, I
can't, I don't have thatcreative side.
Pastor Joe Liles (36:31):
Well, like, that wall was a disaster. That
wall came about out of it cameabout, as I would say, is only
God intended because I had thisbeautiful, like, 3d thing that I
was going to do where I, like,layered the wood on top of each
other, and it was all the rage,like you just layered all this
wood, and it was this reallycool, like, modern, but rustic
kind of deal. And I was like,great. And so we're building out
(36:52):
the space, we're getting to ourfirst space ever, and we're
sitting and we're building, andI realized that this wood is
about half an inch thick, so itdoesn't look like doesn't slay
it's too nice. So it didn'tlike, and we just started
building it out, and I'm like,Oh, this is horrible. And I just
sat, and we just sat in thespace for like, two hours, and I
just sat in the middle of theroom just looking at the wall,
(37:12):
going, this is a disaster. Andall we had were the sides filled
in right and the cross
Tom Helmich (37:18):
right. Now look at this. It doesn't look like a
disaster well, so if you look atit, because I didn't see it in
the process. I just came tochurch one morning and saw like,
that's awesome. It is a reallygorgeous piece, having it off to
the side, yeah, I remember theconversation when we did that of
trying to find a place becausewe wanted to put it into this
building. Oh, yeah. We wantedto, yeah, because there was part
of our worship, but there wasnowhere it fit. Yeah, yeah. And
(37:40):
try to find that wood again tofill it out into this was
problematic.
Pastor Joe Liles (37:45):
But, yeah, yeah. And remember, we had the
cross over here too. Yeah, if weget one more cross, we get three
crosses in the space, which Ithink is great, yeah, but both
crosses are to the side. Yeah,it's great. It's all over there.
So, so Okay, so your approval.
And now the final process, then,if I heard it correctly, is that
you have your approval. They'renow going back. The faculty will
prove right what I hope, yeah,you hope, yeah. So the faculty,
(38:07):
we hope, will approve. When doesthat happen? When is the date
Tom Helmich (38:12):
of approval that that committee meeting is on the
14th. On the 14th, okay? Becauseit because they told me. So
we'll send you back. We'll draftthe language send it to the
committee. They'll sign off onit, I'm sure, and then we'll
send it to you. And if there'sstuff you want tweaked, you
know, you kind of let us know.
I'm like, Yeah, that's like,seven days before ordination. I
don't think I'm gonna have timefor that. I'll just go with what
you say. And I don't know theywould change it for me anyway,
but they give you an opportunityto, like, this is what we think
(38:35):
of your ministry readiness.
Yeah. If you disagree, let usknow. We'll reconsider. Yeah,
but at that point it'll be over,so yeah, it'll
Pastor Joe Liles (38:43):
be done. It'll be done. Okay? So that's the
14th of May. 18 is when thebishop is here, right? And we
have vote, and our vote,congregational meeting is that
day. So you have approval,you're approved, then we have to
call you, right? So you will becalled to the neighborhood
church.
Tom Helmich (38:59):
That means you'll have to write that letter like,
Monday, Yeah, correct? Like, wehave to do it in order, right?
Yeah. Because then that's got togo to the bishop for preemptive
beforehand, because she's got toapprove the letter and prove the
language that I sent
Pastor Joe Liles (39:11):
away. It's like buying a house, special
certificate, everything elselike that. We got to go to the
title company afterwards andmake sure that they sign off and
so that will be 18thcongregational meeting, and then
the 21st so 18, literally, inthose seven days.
Tom Helmich (39:27):
And while y'all are voting, yeah, I will be at
commencement. Yeah, you're nothere. You're up at graduation,
which is interesting when youthink like the Reformation
aspect, because Commencement forWartburg, for these Lutheran
pastors, yeah, isn't at SaintJoseph the worker Catholic
Church. And it is funny. So I'mgraduating a Lutheran
Pastor Joe Liles (39:44):
seminar. Is that the one in the round? Yes,
yeah. Oh, that's right, yeah.
Tom Helmich (39:47):
My commencement is that we're at Roman Catholic
Church in Dubuque, Iowa, inIowa. Okay, so we'll drive the
17th, because it's like 10hours, and then I'll have
commencement Sunday, thebaccalaureate and the
commencement that afternoon. Andwe'll get up Monday to drive
back. Yep, that's true. That'strue. And then I'll have Tuesday
to do any final prepping stuffin here for the youth party and
(40:07):
ordination Wednesday. Yeah,that's beautiful. And one thing
I probably I won't see if shehears it on this or whether or
not we had to think we need the,I don't think we need the
approval from the bishop for theparty theme. Oh, yeah. But you
really drop that.
Pastor Joe Liles (40:20):
I heard it.
You heard it. Tom, what are youdoing on that Wednesday? Well,
because
Tom Helmich (40:24):
it's if the congregation says no, or if we
this wasn't happening right now,it was going to be the party for
the end of warehouse, yeah. Andmy wife, who's brilliant, thinks
that every party needs a theme,yep. And because the ordination,
which I looked it up, the Latincomes from ordinari, which means
to put in order, yeah. Becausethat's a more formal event. So
(40:44):
I'll be wearing an ALB and thengetting stole put on me, yes,
which is like, the symbolic,symbolic of the yoke of the
burden of discipleship. She'slike, it's a lot of robes and
formal attire we need to theparty needs to be Harry Potter
themes. All the kids can wearrobes. Yeah? That's right. I'm
like, sure, yeah, do like butterbeard, like your cream soda
floats and stuff, you know, andstuff like that, for the kids.
So it'd be a Harry Potter themedyouth party. That's beautiful.
(41:06):
The After Party, after theordination,
Pastor Joe Liles (41:08):
that's beautiful. That's beautiful. So
what is so you're heading up onthe 17th. You said, Saturday,
yeah, that Saturday. And then isthere anything going on a
Saturday? Is only Sunday?
There's
Tom Helmich (41:16):
like, a banquet, different stuff going on
Saturday night. You can sign upfor, I know we may kind of do
our own thing a little bit. Mywife's never been to Dubuque
before. Oh, wow. Okay, so we'rekind of see some of the stuff,
the like the the MississippiRiver Museum, yeah, that's
Pastor Joe Liles (41:28):
great, like that. That's great. Town river
rock area, yeah, it's reallyfun. And then what time is
commencement on
Tom Helmich (41:33):
Sunday? Uh, 3pm 3pm Yeah, baccalaureate, 11, and
commencement at three. That'sbeautiful.
Pastor Joe Liles (41:37):
I love it. I love it. Alright, that's great.
So interestingly enough, right?
We've shared for an hour aboutwhat the seminary process is,
and we still got a little bitleft. There's probably stuff I
left out on there. Oh, no, but,I mean, I think that's, I mean,
it's a beautiful kind of processof just talking through what
you've gone through. Andnormally, this can't happen in
four years, right? If you go,yeah, I did mine in four years,
but I was on campus, so, like, Iwas just focused on that solely,
(42:00):
right? Did the exact process.
Went through everything there.
But honestly, as a distributedlearner, right? You can actually
do that process while you'restill working. That was the
first part of your seminarycareer, and then you retired,
and now you're sir, you did aninternship, yeah, right after
that. And then now serving rightas you kind of finished off
school. And so then the J, the Jterm overseas to Yeah, so, and
then you'll be called here aspastor of care and education.
(42:23):
Okay, is
Tom Helmich (42:25):
that? What are the title of Pastor of care, of who
was like, faith, formation,education or caring? That makes
sense, because part of the, alot of the interview, a lot of
the languages are surrounding,you know, pastoral care and
chaplaincy and so,
Pastor Joe Liles (42:36):
absolutely, absolutely so. So this is
exciting. So Can people ask youquestions on Sunday? So say
like, they get to see you onSunday and you're around to your
right. Can they come up and askyou questions about the seminary
process and things like that?
Tom Helmich (42:46):
Sunday the vote, I'll be in Iowa, correct it
won't have my phone turned on,but anytime they see me, yeah,
they can ask questions.
Pastor Joe Liles (42:51):
That's awesome. I've actually had some
people come up and ask aboutseminary last couple weeks, so
I'm going to send them your wayso they can talk about it. Yeah,
so that'll be really great. SoSo that's great. So we got an
update on the seminary processand what that's like. So this
was a discovery podcast of justwhat is seminary like next week
in the church. Not
Tom Helmich (43:07):
that scary. Once you go through it a little bit
at a time, it's not like, don'tbe scared of it, like you can be
done
Pastor Joe Liles (43:12):
beautiful, bro. I loved my time at
seminary. Loved it. So thisSunday is May the fourth, and
what they call it is Star WarsSunday May the Fourth be with
you table. We're going to haveto do like that, right? You
know, just as something, right,something the Empire March,
right, whatever. Put that underthe countdown, yes. And they're
just kind of starting with it,right? And I saw, I saw one
(43:34):
great voice of the church putout and said, Don't be solo this
Sunday. And it was a picture ofyou with you, yeah, yeah, it's
good. And then next week isMother's Day, or the following
Sunday is Mother's Day, andwe'll be doing a 90s theme music
and then sacred Sunday on yourcommencement, which would be
really incredible. Are they livestreaming commencement? I don't
know. I'm assuming, if they do,we might have a live stream
(43:55):
event here to watchcommencement, right, and see
that. But you know what? We'lljust we'll have fun, right?
Yeah, it'd be great. So so thereyou go. TNC podcast for
discovery of what is seminarytruly like with our upcoming
pastor, hopefully with all threevotes happening in the positive
of Karen education Tom hellmuchand all guys, people said, Amen.
I.
Don't forget the jingle. Alright, welcome to
(00:04):
the TNC podcast. We have anexciting podcast today, kind of
a unique one. I would say. Ihave two podcast hosts with me
in studio. Roseanne is not heretoday. Let's just get that one
out of the what happened toRoseanne? She's out today. She
lives with her sister, runningsome things and helping her
sister out. She's got stuff todo, so she is out today. But you
know what? Today was an excitingday inside the church for a
(00:27):
special thing that happened withour one and only. Oh, Tom, Tom,
hell, that's right, I want yourpoint. Yeah, I was pointing at
you to say your name. That'sgreat, because, Tom, you had an
important thing in the life ofseminary happened today, which
is called approval, and we'regonna get to that in a second,
but we're gonna make thispodcast about your seminary
experience. And like, what isthe process of seminary coming
(00:50):
up? All Comedy of Errors.
Comedy, yeah. How many years?
How many years just right, rightat the gate? Seven years, seven
years in seminary? Is that? Howlong it normally takes?
Tom Helmich (00:57):
No, four.
Therefore, okay, yeah. Liketaking the slow route, yeah,
Pastor Joe Liles (01:01):
that's great.
That's great. And then joiningus also on the podcast, we have
the one, the only, the sametable, the same table, the same
as last week. Our podcast manyother weeks and many other
weeks. And so, yeah, we werekicking off a series this week
called church shopping. And thatseries is really about the years
of the different really churchexperiences and kind of, how did
church form from the beginning?
(01:23):
So we're talking this lastSunday, really, from, like, the
early church, after Christ'sresurrection, right, starting
through the ascension, right?
And then afterwards theapostles, kind of, starting
these communities of faith. Andlike, kind of, I would say,
really, 33 through 100 thechurch was persecuted, really,
from like 90, from a 90 to 100to all the way to, like 325
that's when, kind of, the churchcame out of, like the Roman
(01:44):
provinces, and really becamepersecuted. And so you get this
early church up through 325 nextweek, we're doing the
Reformation church, right? Theyear 1500 that was a newly
formed church, right? And thekind of the the split from
really Catholicism toProtestant, which is not
Catholic, and then, and thenwe're gonna go to 1990s on
Mother's Day, which I'm superlooking forward to. It's great.
(02:05):
I had people talking to me afterservice about the music they
remembered from the 90s, sayingthat they're inviting people
just to that service becausethey're like, I want to go back
into like, when I was in churchin those days. And like, follow,
what was the the Whoopi Goldbergmovie? Is it? Whoopi Goldberg
sister, with the Goldberg andmovie, that's the only one that,
Tom Helmich (02:24):
yeah, that's, that's why I think 90s church.
I'm thinking, like, yeah, purplesilk ties.
Unknown (02:30):
Oh, what was the movie that she blew at the traffic
lights, and then they wentgreen,
Pastor Joe Liles (02:34):
yeah? Ooh, Angel. Oh, I can't remember. I
want to say Angels in theOutfield, and that's so wrong.
That's where they flap, like theangels in the boy can, you know,
see angels and everything else
Tom Helmich (02:44):
like that. There was some really bad TV back
then. And I look back onwatching some of that stuff now,
I'm like, wow, yeah, it wasreally some of the best us from
back then. Yes, most of the bestmusic back
Pastor Joe Liles (02:54):
then. You think the best music? 90s, 80s,
90s. 80s, 90s. We had a belovedfuneral last Saturday for house
show, beloved friend of mine,beloved member of the church,
and he loves 60s music, so allthey wanted he
Tom Helmich (03:07):
was probably grown in the 50s, yeah. So what do you
realize people's favoritemovies, favorite type of music?
It's usually around the like,20s, yeah, right, absolutely
like when they're coming intotheir own personal identity,
apart from their family, andthen that gets concreted, yeah,
the rest of their life, yeah, nomatter how embarrassing that
movie or music is, yeah?
Pastor Joe Liles (03:28):
So here's crazy. I've started to play
music from my high school timeto Kaylee and Landon just to
say, like, Hey, here's what Iwent through, because Kaylee is
now in high school. Yeah,that's, that's the that's 97 so,
and as Landon would say, Dad,that's in the 1900s and I'm
like, so brutal, like, you'relike, wow, it just hits hard.
(03:50):
But then I bet they hate it onpurpose. No, I've actually got
them like to enjoy it. I mean,really, yeah. I mean, you're
going back to some good oldpunk, and you're going to decide
just like, early pop, you know,like just some good things are
happening during those times. SoI've played them the the range,
though, the range of things thatare going on and so, so they
kind of dig it, which is good.
It still hits the run mix everynow and then, I ran the half
(04:10):
marathon this year to a 90splaylist of just old school
music, which was great. And so,so things are good there. But
speaking of playlists, we have ajingle for the podcast.
Tevo Christmann (04:21):
I do a 1-234-793-6722, 85 neighborhood
church.
Pastor Joe Liles (04:31):
That's right, you too can call the
neighborhood church at479-367-2285, and talk to
Roseanne. She'll answer. Pickthat up. That is our church
number. We say that so everyonewill know it and memorize it.
It's also they jingle to Empire.
Yes, yeah. Well, we don't needto talk about we don't talk
about that. That's notcopyrighted. Take that away. We
didn't steal it. We didn't stealit. We came up with it on our
(04:53):
own. So let's talk through thisa little bit. So we're doing
church shopping. We're talkingabout the early church all the
way. Through, and we haveliterally someone who is getting
ordained in the month of May,Tom hellmuch on May 21 that is a
Wednesday night. Everyone fromthe church is invited. We have a
congregational meeting coming upbefore that, which would be on
the 18th and that is after thesecond service, and that is to
(05:15):
vote Tom hellmuch in. We hopethat goes well, because three
days later, you're gettingordained, the food will be good
way Bishop's going to be there.
What if it doesn't go well?
Change Wednesday, we'll
Tom Helmich (05:29):
either celebrate the ordination or celebrate the
No. Well, because it's also thelast meeting for the warehouse
for the semester. That's right.
So even without the ordination,it would have been a end of the
semester warehouse partycelebration. And so yeah, if
they say no, then we'll justhave the warehouse party and
Pastor Joe Liles (05:43):
we're building this up. So this is a
congregational meeting. So let'stalk about neighborhood church,
not traditional, like acongregational meeting type
church we've been doing. We didone last year, right? I believe
we did one the year before. Andthere's a couple things that
happen during a congregationalmeeting. One, you do business of
the church, right? Particularlythis time, the importance is to
vote in Tom as a called andordained pastor at the
(06:05):
neighborhood Church of care andeducation. We reveal kind of
title position, right? And thenwe have budget, right? So we go
through budget, right? And wekind of walk through, hey,
here's our budget that we'reapproving this year and
everything else. So we kind ofhave these different votes.
We'll introduce core teammembers, right? So you have core
team members, so it's really abusiness life meeting of the
church. But here's the crazything, everybody loves the idea
of a congregational meeting.
They love it. They want it. Itis something very important to
(06:27):
them. No one shows up tocongregational meeting. I'm
actually hoping this meeting,we're going to get maybe 75 to
100 people. The lastcongregational meeting we had, I
think we had 25 like maybe orlow 20s, low 20s, right? And it
was that,
Tom Helmich (06:40):
one that was that one was in the evening. Wasn't
it in the evening? So I'm
Pastor Joe Liles (06:43):
switching it up, because I'm gonna get, hey,
you attend second service. Wewill feed you. We're gonna cater
a lunch free 99 so you can comeover enjoy food while we're
meeting. It's one hour. We'regonna do a one hour meeting, and
then you're out the
Tom Helmich (06:55):
door. That's a hard part. When you get the logistics
wise, and you go to twoservices. Is the first service,
they left and been gone a whilethey've been gone. They're not
gonna come back. Probably theywon't they won't. They won't.
The first service or the secondservice, they're going to be
hungry. It's lunchtime, yeah? Soyou might get some of them,
yeah, the first service, it'sSunday, they're home. They got
their house shoes on, maybe evenif it was me, and be back in my
(07:15):
pajamas, you know, or chillingon the couch, you know. So it's
absolutely hard to get thosepeople back,
Pastor Joe Liles (07:20):
absolutely, absolutely. So that's going to
Tevo Christmann (07:22):
come up unless, unless they care. Yeah,
Tom Helmich (07:25):
right. Oh, really want to be there. They really
want to be
Pastor Joe Liles (07:29):
there. We are providing these things. So you
may know about the I understand
Tevo Christmann (07:32):
it if you don't care. Yeah, like, hungry,
Pastor Joe Liles (07:36):
but like, please Jesus just come and care
that we have these wonderfulthings happening in the church.
So Tom, I really want to breakdown the process of seminary. I
want this to be like a discoverypodcast. Hey,
Tevo Christmann (07:47):
actually, I have a question. Oh, wow. What
is ordained? Where does it comefrom? Oh, what does the word
even mean? And
Tom Helmich (07:56):
what superpowers do you get after it? Oh,
superpowers. None whatsoever.
None. Completely gypped on that.
Yeah. So the idea of ordination,because the Lutheran church, we
believe in the priesthood of allbelievers, which is what Joe is
me preaching on that Wednesdaynight, and five for 5%
Pastor Joe Liles (08:12):
okay, I'm gonna remember that we're just
learning that banking, orbanking, the question of, What
does ordination mean, and whatsuperpowers Do you have? Yeah,
that question is banked. Yeah.
We're gonna hold that for asecond. Tom, can you talk about
but you just said, because thiswas new information to me as of
Sunday, which was great, so Iemailed you, like, three days
before that. You didn't email methree days before. That's
correct. I didn't get to thatpart. So no, so the
Tom Helmich (08:34):
ordination is in the a service of Word and
Sacrament. So yeah, where youhave, like, what we do every
Sunday, and usually havesomebody come to preach, and
then the bishop does theirthing. And so it's a whole
liturgy, yeah, there's a wholeorigin, right? That we're paring
down to certain things that haveto be there because of
ecumenical agreements, yup, sobecause of the understanding of
(08:56):
ordination is, there's nosuperpower you don't get
suddenly this, like this, youknow, all sudden you get a
direct, like, personal backdoorphone number to God to answer
questions, you know, or anyhigher authority. When
Pastor Joe Liles (09:08):
I went through, I did,
Tevo Christmann (09:10):
yeah, you don't get to, like, shoot rays, no,
no,
Tom Helmich (09:14):
nothing like that, because we understand the idea
of the priesthood of all, allbelievers. It's the duty of
everybody to preach the gospelthat we have in the office of
Pastor. That's why we don't usethe word priest, because all
everybody's called to thepriesthood the office of
pastors. Like as a Christian,you lead worship. You know, some
people may work in a hospital,some people may sell shoes, some
(09:34):
people may be a teacher. Somepeople may, you know, whatever
they do for a living. And Luthereven said that the shoe maker
doesn't be isn't a goodChristian by putting little
crosses on his shoes, but bymaking good shoes, everything we
do in society, every job is away of serving those around us.
Yep. And so we are all equalwhen it comes to authority over
the gospel and Scripture andpreaching the Word. I'm just the
(09:54):
one that's been delegated to dothat for a living while
everybody else is doing theirother jobs. And
Pastor Joe Liles (09:59):
I think I would, I would. Just add to it
too, that it was really meant tocreate structure within the
church. That
Tom Helmich (10:03):
way you there's control over who's preaching it,
because we know in Christianity,all the denominations is such a
wide variety, it's like thisperson has been trained, which
is not required under alldenominations. This person has
been educated, trained, beenbeen tested and reviewed and
discerned, and that we aresaying yes, this is a valid
call, and we are choosing thisperson to proceed with preaching
(10:25):
the gospel, presiding over thesacraments, doing all the things
that I'll have to say yes to.
Tevo Christmann (10:29):
So the ordination service is just a
sort of a celebration or aritual, or I would write
Pastor Joe Liles (10:36):
a call or ordination, right? It's a right,
yeah, so,
Tevo Christmann (10:40):
but it doesn't invest you with any extra power
of any kind.
Tom Helmich (10:45):
It's, there's the the laying on of of hands, which
is like that symbolic. We're,we're, we're like an anointing
you like, this is now yourresponsibility. This is, you
know, your charge to, to goforth. And it kind of tries to
invoke a lot of what went on atPentecost, where the, you know,
the praying for the Spirit tocome on and bless the person in
their ministry, but no actualtongues of fire, or hopefully no
(11:07):
doors blowing open from wind,because it's tornadoes, you
know, tornado season and stufflike
Tevo Christmann (11:12):
that, you know.
So then, just so then, if thereis like, after you ordain, the
the ordination is purely aboutsort of institutional structure,
cohesion. There's nothingspiritual. Well, there's,
there's, there's invocation of
Tom Helmich (11:27):
the spirit to to bless the ministry of the
person. But no superpowers, nospecial powers or authority over
God or anything. Just aspiritual the idea of a
spiritual blessing to help theperson doing it, you know, that
will do it with the help and theinspiration of the Holy Spirit.
And the
Tevo Christmann (11:45):
word ordination comes from what
Pastor Joe Liles (11:48):
I don't know.
Yeah, it's actually probably
Tevo Christmann (11:51):
Latin or donatio, or, yeah, right,
Tom Helmich (11:53):
probably, probably, it may come from, like,
anointing or something, yeah,
Pastor Joe Liles (12:02):
that's actually good research. I'd love
to know where that word camefrom, like, your etymology,
yeah. So the other importantdistinction about being ordained
is that there were previouslytwo rosters of ordination,
right? And we still understandordination of two different
rostered individuals, right? Wehave ordained pastors and we
have ordained Deacons in thechurch, right? So a couple
things that Tom was talkingabout, which makes it
(12:22):
interesting is one you mighthear of a pastor from another
denomination, right? SoMethodist, Presbyterian,
Episcopal, those differentthings, right? Your mainline
Protestant denominations, theyall have their own ordination
practices and their ownordination path, right? So we
don't have one path that existsfor all Protestant
denominations, right? TheLutheran ELCA has their own
(12:43):
ordination path. You know, evenWisconsin and Missouri and
Lutheran will have a differentordination path, and true of the
denominations, right? So whenyou hear of pastor that is
unique to the denomination ornon denomination, and the reason
I say that is because you can goto churches who say, hey, love
that you've been serving here inthe kids ministry. That's super
awesome. We would love to makeyou our kids pastor. And they
(13:05):
go, oh gosh, I would love that Ifeel called. And they go, great.
We're going to invite you upnext Sunday and we'll kind of
install you as the kids pastor.
And that's they're now the kidspastor. They are not ordained
according to our understandingof what it means to be a pastor.
The same would be true if you goto like the church of online,
Jesus Christ, which many peoplehave done, and I forget what
it's called, gosh, there's aname. There's a specific name,
(13:27):
where you can go be orderedChurch of online, Jesus Christ.
It's literally called like, thechurch of like online and like,
you can be ordained by going tothem, paying money, and they'll
give you an ordinationcertificate so you can perform
marital you do weddings,weddings, and it's like my
brother is ordained, which we'vehad no conversations about, but
I have feelings about mybrother's ordained so he could
marry some people, which, andeven as a pastor, I particularly
(13:50):
still love the fact that peopleare looking for this, even if
it's outside the church, right?
I'm always a believer that, likebringing God into people's lives
is important. I believe thereare levels of that. But at the
same time, I see this happeningall throughout, right, where
people are now just pastors,right? They go. I do feel like
for someone who goes to seminaryfor seven years, for someone who
(14:12):
spent four years in seminary,right, steeped in tradition,
steeped in kind of a theologicalgrounding, there is a difference
there, right? And so when welook at it as Lutherans, there
is an understanding when itprovides order to the church,
right, when you come and youunderstand that you're in a
Lutheran church and there's anordained pastor, you understand
that they have gone through fouryears of seminary and a process
of ordination that includescandidacy. It includes a
(14:35):
chaplain moment right, where yougo out and you have your
Clinical Pastoral Education.
Includes theologicalunderstanding. It includes
languages. It includes anapproval right, includes an
internship, right? Like, allthese things go through, it
includes psych evaluations rightto make sure, like, if you want
to go to the psychological side,right, I had many psych evals
coming into this right, and wasapproved for certain things and
not approved for other things.
(14:55):
And so you get to this wonderfulprocess that we have that is
really trying to say. We havepeople caring for other people,
right, in a theological and careway, for emotional and spiritual
health of someone that needs tobe cared for in and of itself.
And so you have ordained pastorsthat's toward in sacrament. So
Tom will be an ordained pastorto word in sacrament. That means
(15:16):
that one you can preach, right?
But you're not preaching onWednesday. You told me to
preach, so I get to preach onthat Wednesday. I had the bishop
in for that reason, so I didn'thave to preach on that day. And
Tom's like, why aren't you? AndI was like, it's only five to
seven minutes. No, yeah, right,I won't preach 30. Does it bring
a hot and so you have word insacrament. We have two
sacraments in Lutherantradition, baptism and
communion. So we preside overthe elements right of baptism
(15:38):
and communion, and also theword, then you have the ordained
deacons, right? They are alsoordained, but they are ordained
a word and service. They're theextension from the church to the
outside world. It doesn't meanpastors can't do that, but what
you do see is the distinguishesthat deacons will not preside
over the elements, right? Orthey won't preside over baptism,
(15:58):
and so they are not they have toget special dispensation from
the Synod through the bishop inorder to do something like that,
and it's only in the absence ofan ordained pastor. So that's
where you get into some like,real kind of right of passage,
right? There's a right thatcomes into what does this
ordination mean? How does thisexist in an order of the church
we are then cared for by thebishop. The bishop has another
(16:21):
element above us. It would bekind of our boss in the Lutheran
church, right? That bishop hastheir own right, and they're
installed as a bishop. And so weget to this wonderful process
where Tom is at right now, andthat was kind of this morning.
But I want you to take us back,because you went through
approval today. Approval is
Tom Helmich (16:38):
one of the final second approval of how many of
two?
Pastor Joe Liles (16:42):
Of two? Yeah.
And so before we talk aboutapproval today, which you
literally had the hour beforethis podcast, like you were
fretting from your approvalinterview into this podcast, and
I haven't even heard about ityet, so I'm excited to see the
questions they asked. Can youwalk us through what is the
seminary process?
Tom Helmich (16:58):
Because it's not you think of seminary as
education, but like for theLutheran churches, I think all
the different Lutheran churches,Roman Catholic Church, you can't
just decide to go to seminary.
That's why I thought I'd just goto seminary for the education.
That's not how that works. Yeah,like you for them to to because
of the amount of time and effortthat goes into it, for you to
take part in that program, eventhough you have to pay for it,
you have to be approved to bethere and do it. You can, you
(17:18):
can register the first semester,but then you can't go on to the
second semester without positiveapproval paperwork from the
Senate. So when I started, Istarted talking to you about it
on the ride to Senate Assembly.
And then we what year
Pastor Joe Liles (17:33):
was that? 2018 2018 Okay, yeah, that was great,
yep. And
Tom Helmich (17:37):
so like spring of was it 17? No, it was 17 because
about a year before they able toget started. Yep. So 2017
because I had to meet withPastor Karen in Bella Vista. She
was the candidacy committeechair. And, like, you know, the
conversation, you know, why areyou interested? Okay, here's the
process here, and they very muchput it on you, like, here's what
(17:57):
you need to do, and then yougotta go do it. Like they don't
help you along the way, likeit's, you know, you've gotta be
able to to have the initiativeto go and do these steps. And
then I met with another pastor,as a retired pastor, for a
second opinion, or whether ornot they should even entertain
the idea of the interviews forthe process. And then once he
signed off on it, I enrolled inseminary, started doing the
(18:18):
paperwork for entrance. Yeah,and so for entrance, I did a the
psychological evaluation with apsychiatrist. Yeah, had to talk
to him twice, because I had tore answer some of
Pastor Joe Liles (18:28):
the questions.
What
Tom Helmich (18:31):
do you talk to? I sent the paperwork in, and I had
to drive to Tulsa, and he met mein the lobby at his clipboard,
and he said, Hey, I want you tolook at some of these questions.
And the, it's the MMPI. I mean,I've done, oh yeah, this I did
once for the Sheriff's Office,once for Rogers. PD, because to
be armed as an armed lawenforcement officer, you have to
have psych eval, right? Yep. Andso I'm familiar with it. I had
psychology classes my undergrad.
Like, I know what this is. Andso being kind of snarky is,
(18:53):
like, what I get some of themwrong. And he's like, no sense
of humor. He's like, Well, youknow, there's not really any
wrong answers. And I want tosay, Well, then why are you
bringing the papers back out?
You know, he said, I just kindof wonder about if these are
completely honest. And I waslike, Okay. He's like, Well,
like you whether or they're not,you worry about, you know, on a
scale of one to 10, how much doyou worry about health, body
(19:16):
image, finance, all this stuff.
He said, Just something, like,you worry about that whole lot.
I'm like, nah. I'm kind of, Imean, I was, you know, 40 years
old, you know, like, No, I mean,I'm, I'm good, yeah. He's like,
What about this one you say, youknow, on a scale of one to 10,
how often do you worry aboutsomebody trying to kill you?
That's like, a six. I'm like,Well, I'm a cop. I wear body
armor for a living. And he'slike, Oh, shit, never mind. Come
on, in this that's fine. He'slike, cops and firefighters have
(19:37):
a completely differentperspective on life. It's always
different, yep, which means hedidn't read the first page of
the package. Yeah,
Pastor Joe Liles (19:43):
no, yeah. He didn't read because it has
occupations, just looking at thetest. That was it. So I did the
Tom Helmich (19:47):
psych eval, and then I did go to a psychologist
for a career counseling session,yep, and he wrote out his
evaluation, and then that allwent to the Senate office, and
then I got a date for. Myentrance interview, yeah. And I
had to do about 1520, pages ofessay on different questions of
theology, faith, background, and
Pastor Joe Liles (20:09):
this is without going in knowing,
knowing nothing, just kind ofgive you a blanket just to see
where you're at. Where are youat? Yeah, right. What have you
learned? Right? And I had
Tom Helmich (20:15):
to ask questions like, when and where were you
baptized? So I had to call myparents and dig that up,
because, you know, it's infantbaptism. Wonderful, traditional
thing, okay, but it had to, Ihad to ask, because I don't, I
don't remember, you know, andthen do they, they bring you in
there, and they ask you a wholebunch of questions after reading
your essay, and then they sendyou out of the room for about 10
(20:37):
minutes and talk about you. Andthen they bring you back in, and
then tell you yes or no, butbefore they tell you yes or no,
they read a form and have youanswer these questions about and
some of them, I'm like, I haveno idea. What are you associated
with such and such group? I'mlike, I have no idea what that
is. And she's like, okay, thenyou're not, yeah, you know it's
like, Freemasons and stuff likethat, because there's issue
about, like, apostolicauthority, yep, and then they
(20:57):
vote yes. Now you're entranced.
Now you can continue inseminary. Yep,
Pastor Joe Liles (21:01):
and that is on that is only true. So just going
back for a second, if you passyour psychological interview,
yes, is that psychologicalinterviews ago? No, go. Yeah. If
you don't pass that, you're out.
And
Tevo Christmann (21:10):
that's all after one semester already. No,
before you ever during the
Pastor Joe Liles (21:14):
first walking in with most
Tom Helmich (21:16):
people do it beforehand, yeah, because the
way my cycle worked, I wasalready enrolled, because I
actually had to have somebody atthe library proctor the psych
eval, written evaluation to sendoff to him. So then I got
entrance, so I got to go tostart taking classes. But then
every November, I have to do aweekend retreat with a candidacy
committee, so they continue toget to know you. And you know,
(21:37):
where's
Pastor Joe Liles (21:37):
your candidacy committee at Tulsa, Oklahoma,
right? So it's where you've comefrom. It's your people are on
site for seminary. And somepeople attend seminary from a
distributed learning,
Tom Helmich (21:46):
right? But regardless that, that candidacy
committee retreat is at the thebishop's office, yeah, it was in
Tulsa, so I did that. And then,you know, then all the, all the
academic stuff, doing thatevery, every November, right
smack dab in the middle of deerseason, and then deer season,
yeah, yeah,
Pastor Joe Liles (22:07):
we're not concerned about the concern,
because, yeah,
Tom Helmich (22:12):
Deirdre, but then you have midway through before
you do internship, you have toget endorsement. And so now you
have the Internship Committeethat has to do the endorsement
interview, and the faculty to doan endorsement interview, yep.
And so it's another 20 pages ofessay, theological questions.
And now endorsement
Pastor Joe Liles (22:30):
is after internship before. It's before
before.
Tom Helmich (22:34):
So you have to get endorsed to be able to go do
internship, and then you have todo your CPE, which not remnant
denominations. You
Pastor Joe Liles (22:40):
did your CP backwards, because I did my CP
before internship I did too.
Yeah. Okay, yeah. So
Tom Helmich (22:45):
I retired. I had to retire before I could do CPE,
yeah, because of conflict withconfidentiality, okay, like,
there's some, you know, so that,Oh, I get that. So I retired. I
did my endorsement interviewswith the faculty panel and the
committee panel, they both saidyes, and then I got to do CPE,
and then a full time semester.
And then can you just explain topeople what CPE, clinical,
Pastoral Education, and what isthat it's like, it's the care
(23:06):
aspect, like when somebody's inthe hospital and you go to visit
with them, only you spend 400hours. Yep, it's all summer.
It's like three, three and ahalf months. And mine is split
between a care facility inFayetteville for the elderly
that had a nursing home memorycare in the Arkansas Children's
Hospital. Yeah, through verydifferent conversations, oh
yeah. Oh yeah, both ends oflife, yeah, both ends of life
(23:26):
only both times. It's oftendying at both ends of life,
which is kind of toughconversation. And then more
academics, and then theinternship, a year, full year
long internship that I had splitbetween here in Saint Luke,
yeah. And then I went back infor another semester. At this
point, I've been there longerthan a lot of the faculty, yeah?
And then I had to do theendorsement, because to to
finish the program, because youget the degree, the masters of
(23:49):
divinity degree, which hasnothing to do with Harry Potter,
it's not divination, it'scompletely different divinity.
That's great, yeah, that's thequestion I get to you, if they
have that masters of divinitymaster's degree, which is a
master's degree, but it's 116hours, so it's like a couple
hours shy of another bachelor'sdegree, correct? Yep. Which most
masters are? Like, most mastersare half years, yeah, half of
that have a four year masters,yeah? Which is two regular for
(24:11):
four years? Like, you can be adoctor, yes? Like, yes, yeah. So
then I had to do more essays andsend submit a couple of written
manuscripts of sermons andvideos of sermons that I
preached, yeah. And then I getthe endorsement, where the
bishop's office to include thebishop do all the the questions,
(24:31):
ask your random questions abouttheology and how you articulate
this and that. And then theyvote, and they tell you if you
pass or not, yeah. And then thislast one I did today was to fill
up. They call the form d. I haveno idea what D I have no idea
what D stands for, the languagefrom the seminary that the
faculty panel after myinterviewers bring that
information to them, they voteon whether or not they want to
to approve me for pastoralministry. Yeah, and I have to
(24:54):
have that faculty approval fromthe whole faculty board to
continue on and. Be ordained,and that will happen the week
before. So
Pastor Joe Liles (25:02):
let me just walk through the structure. So
you have a psychologicalinterview, which is a go, no go,
yep, right for seminar, and acareer counseling interview, and
then a career counselinginterview, and then you have
entrance Yes, which is a go, nogo, which is a go, no go. Then
you have your first year, andyou get to Clinical Pastoral
Education. But I had with me Iwas three or four years in
before, okay, yeah, so it was alittle bit different process.
(25:22):
It's only two years in, yeah,you do this, the clinical
Exactly, right? So you do this,so that is also at the same time
a pass fail, right? Because ifthat's from your Clinical
Pastoral Education supervisor,which will give you a pass fail
and how you did during thatyear, and then you have to come
back to seminary and go throughanother interview process that's
a pass fail. And when I saypass, fail, these are moments
when you exit seminary, if thisis not
Tom Helmich (25:44):
your dope. And I've seen people get that interview
where they get a no, yep, andthen they're just they're done.
Pastor Joe Liles (25:49):
So that's one to two years in, right? So by
one to two years in, we've hadfour times at which right
seminary, your seminary timecould be over, right? Then you
go through internship, right?
And that's another and
Tom Helmich (26:00):
then you get an Internship Committee at the at
the congregational level thatevaluates you, yeah. And then
that language goes to thecandidacy committee at the
bishop song, which evaluatesabout you, a evaluate you. And
then it goes to to contextualeducation, yeah, that evaluates
it.
Pastor Joe Liles (26:14):
So that's three times there just on
internship where you couldreceive a No, right? Yeah. And
you're done, and then you'redone, and then you get through
the internship. Now, yourcoursework is there. You still
have to complete yourcoursework. Now, coursework is
generally like a credit. Nocredit is kind of what they've
gone to. They're still doinggrades,
Tom Helmich (26:31):
and a lot of some of them, like I have some that
are that are graded, and somethat are just pass fail. So you
still
Pastor Joe Liles (26:35):
have to pass those in order to actually
graduate with the masters ofdivinity. They've got their
accreditation standard? Yeah,exactly. So you have to be
accredited, right? And thenfinally, your approval. In my
mind, there's eight or ninetimes during seminary, which I
think is gets a little bit backto this ordination, right? Is
that there's eight or nine timeswhen we go through seminary
where we are literally walkingthrough a process of, hey, this
(26:57):
is a path or not a path, right?
And we go through that entiretime, and at each step there are
people one that are receivingNo,
Tom Helmich (27:04):
and it's a lot of people. It's a lot of people
process that are doing all theinterviews, yeah. And
Pastor Joe Liles (27:08):
there are times when people late into the
process receive a no, and thereare times late in the process
where people discern this isn'tthe route for them. There's
times late in the process wherethey discern Lutheran isn't for
them, right? And so I've seenall those, especially when I
went through seminary, and I'msure you've seen it in the 19
years you've been going toseminary. Been going to
seminary, and so, so, so this isinteresting. So can you walk us
through today? Like, I'm veryintrigued. So I went through
(27:30):
approval also, right? And Ithink I shared this with you,
right? When at the approval,it's, it's really a kind of an
understanding and a conversationabout your theology, right? Like
taking in the four years ofunderstanding and how you've
rooted yourself in the narrativeof Lutheran theology and what
that means. And then so they askyou questions about your faith,
right, different things likethat. And I remember Nate from
bot, who I said hi to today onyour approval interview, was
(27:52):
also my supervisor, so I jumpedon today and just said hi. But
when I went through and theywere talking to me, they asked
me about, you know, just, hey,what would you say about your
theology? And so I recited theApostles Creed, but they didn't
think that was funny. But Istill think, like, at a base
level, like we're grounded here,like we are grounded, but in
your own words, but that's whatthey're going to say in your own
words. Let's go So, and it'svery important to think through
(28:14):
that, right? It's not just this,this atmosphere where we repeat
what we've learned, right? Wereally have to think through
physiology. So today, in yourapproval, like, can you share
with us some of the questionsthat they asked you?
Tom Helmich (28:26):
It's hard to even, you know, it was, it was good,
short meeting. It's only anhour.
Pastor Joe Liles (28:29):
Yeah? They said it's gonna be real short,
which I thought 15 minutes.
Yeah, I did. They went for anhour and an
Tom Helmich (28:33):
hour, yeah? And both of the people my interview
had been my advisors at onepoint, because I've been there
long enough I had to have twobecause sabbatical came up for
Nate and, you know, and so they,you know, they go through and
they read my approval essay,there was like 20 pages
beforehand, and then they couldnitpick that, but they didn't
really pick into that, okay, askquestions about, like, okay, in
(28:55):
your preaching, becauseProfessor Sam Gary is a former
professor of homiletics, whichis a fancy word for for
preaching. It's like, you knowwhat themes to people that hear
you preach? We're currentlyhere, yeah. And at some point
time I brought up said that,yeah, I like the story based to
be able to engage people in realworld scenarios and to kind of
keep their attention. And I diddo the Gallagher thing at the
(29:17):
neighborhood once brought in awatermelon and sledgehammer like
you did not, that's good. I'mlike, Oh, I absolutely did.
Yeah, here's the situation,here's the reading and how it
worked. I did not actually smashthe watermelon because two
services clean up by passed outponchos. And the point people
were worried enough, parentswere picking their kids up off
the front row and moving themback of the church. But here's
(29:38):
kind of what I did, how I woundit up, and he's just smiling.
He's like things you could do atthe neighborhood that you could
not get away with a lot of otherchurches ask a lot about you,
like youth ministry and faithformation with teens, because I
know I do a lot of that, okay?
And then at one point, then theythrow some wild ones out there.
And sometimes, I think it'ssometimes just to try to throw
you for a loop. Yeah, right. Um.
(30:00):
And talking about, like, how youhow you proclaim the gospel, how
you proclaim the good news andgrace. And he's like, Okay, how
you relate that to the cross,you know, to get and get into
the idea of, you know, theologyof the cross and the some
symbolism of that for in achurch. And like, what would you
do different based on contextyou're at, you know, you know.
So someone's like, what wouldyou do different at the
(30:20):
neighborhood about how you dosome of that stuff. So I know
through, like, if it was, if Iwere the senior pastor, these
are some changes that I would
Pastor Joe Liles (30:27):
just said, senior pastor. What's the senior
pastor? It's the the one who'sthere first. Gosh, I'm glad you
said it that way, because, like,I'm hitting 43 this year. So
times are coming. Doesn't meanelderly Yeah, it doesn't mean
elderly.
Tom Helmich (30:38):
Pastor, yeah, because you'll, you'll turn 43
and round for that, I'll turn50. Yeah, it's very true. Yeah,
you'll take the senior it's justfunny. It's like, you'll be the
senior pastor, but I'll bepastor, but I'll be older than
you. Yeah, that's right. And sogo through, like, some of the
things that I would dodifferent, yeah? Oh,
Pastor Joe Liles (30:52):
well, let's pause. I'm intrigued. What would
you do different? Tom,
Tom Helmich (30:56):
oh, well, like that cross mural kind of thing over
there, the
Pastor Joe Liles (31:00):
cross. Can
Tom Helmich (31:02):
you describe it for people that are listening? Yeah.
So it's and we had it at the onI Street, Yep, that was our that
was our storefront. Or this is istreet, but on the storefront
church, yep, and Gary rebuilt itover here. And it's a sneak kind
of wood collage that has arelief and that kind of the back
and some of the shape of across, correct back light. It's
a really, really neat artisticway of doing it, I would take
(31:22):
the cross, which is central toall Christian theology and
salvation, off of the side wall,and put it dead center in the
worship space. Okay, yeah.
Because what everybody see, youknow, what you center in
worship, is, like, the crux themost important thing, yeah. And
what people are seeing is themost important thing when they
come in here intuitively, is thescreen and the band, yeah, so I
wouldn't put the band in theback. That doesn't work for
(31:43):
leading people through worship,right? Like a lot of churches,
like, it was like, what St Luke,the choir is the very back.
Like, everybody's got their
Pastor Joe Liles (31:54):
back turned.
Oh my gosh, stream on it. It'slike, the bounty setup of choir
over there.
Tom Helmich (31:58):
You know, I would rearrange this a little bit, but
I put the cross dead center,because everything should be
focused on the cross, becausethat's the music helps draw in
the emotive aspect of worship.
But what actually does the deed,that promise of eternal life, is
what Jesus did on that cross,and that is, to me, that needs
to be front and center.
Pastor Joe Liles (32:16):
Can I just say, you know, what I love is
that uniquely this week, becausewe had the funeral on Friday, we
had placed our good Friday crossat the center focus right when
people walk in. So the wholetime we're saying this uniquely,
there's a giant cross right whenpeople walk in Sunday.
Tom Helmich (32:29):
Look at that. Going here on Sunday morning, on
worship, it's, you know, it'sbehind them, yeah, you know,
like, where are you focusing?
You know, your your worship andthe altar. Because we, we've got
the cross off to one side thealtar the other, yep. And it's,
you know, symbolism only thatgoes as far as what people
understand the symbol, right?
But like, to me, the the altarbelongs at the foot of the
cross. So I would put the altarlike, up here. I'd have to rear
(32:51):
you'd have to rearrange stagestuff, because you have to be
able to get behind it. I don'tlike standing at the altar. My
back turned to people, yeah,which a lot of churches do. A
lot of traditional churches, youhave the altar against the wall
at workburn, the chapel, thealtar is against the wall. So
the wall, yeah. And so you'relooking at the back of the
person presiding, whereas, likea Saint Luke King walked behind
it, yeah. And so like, havingthe altar at the foot of the
cross, and then, like, all theband stuff going on around it,
(33:12):
so all the focus is thesymbolism of the cross and the
altar and the thing, all theelements. And then I would, we
can't rip the screen in half,but I'd move two screens off to
either side so that you haveroom for the cross dead center,
so people can look at what'sgoing on on our screens on
either side, but their focus,because, like, my interest in
maybe doing a PhD later on, isin practical theology. Like,
(33:32):
what are the the practicalthings that we get? Like, when
you talk to somebody and you getbody language, yeah, that
sometimes tells a very differentstory. Yeah, it's the same thing
in worship. There's a bodylanguage of the church that
tells a different story. And youcan tell people that during
worship singing a song that arereally aren't into it and aren't
engaged, and you can tell whenpeople are and those symbols
that we have have a kind of itsown body language of the church,
(33:54):
of what it is that we'reprojecting to to the people. And
so for me, I would rearrange theworship space and get rid of the
big screen and put two smallones on either side of the
Tevo Christmann (34:03):
cross. Yeah, what do you I think it's your
rat fighting changes.
Tom Helmich (34:07):
But here's the thing with Avery pastor, like,
the hard part is having twopastors at one church, because
everybody, because they spentall
Tevo Christmann (34:14):
these years, that's why one is senior for
right? Because you get all this,like, leadership
Tom Helmich (34:18):
training, how to how to lead it, and then you're
like, there's two of you andthere's like, one of you is
leading, one's not leading. Aseparate aspect of it, you know,
because everybody do itdifferent, yeah, well,
Pastor Joe Liles (34:26):
it's funny when you say that, because when
I first planted the church, Ihad to get approval from the
bishop on worship, and that wedid, right, which is still the
same ledger that we do today,actually, and to come through on
that. And the first thing I wantto do was two screens on either
side right. It was almost asimilar setup, two screens on
either side right. And then wehad crosses focused in the
(34:47):
center right. And there was twobecause it
Tom Helmich (34:49):
used to be at the other church. It was that cross
was dead center.
Pastor Joe Liles (34:51):
Yeah, it was dead center in the back right.
And so, so we started that way.
I didn't get approval for twoscreens. That was, that was too
much. Money. I was not allowed.
No, just was no. Like, it wasn'teven based on money. It was, I
cannot have, like, like piecesgot to, you know? Oh, yeah,
well, yeah, I install screensfor churches now. And so, like,
one of those things that we donow is say, great, it's, it's
(35:12):
really on helping people withthe liturgy, right? And helping
them walk so you just make iteasy for them to see the
literature, yeah? But they said,No, I couldn't do that. And
then, and then I said I wasgoing to have communion once a
month, right? In order toembrace that. And I said, Nope,
you have to have communion everysingle Sunday. And I said, Okay.
And so we started from there,right? So, yeah, there was
(35:32):
actually the original design andand we floated back and forth.
So it's interesting thing, yeah,because we had two crosses when
we started, we had, we builtthis behind, I
Tom Helmich (35:40):
remember, yeah, I remember, like, we did so many
wall, wall knockouts and stuffin there, yep, but when we
brought it over here, like itwas from a much smaller space,
oh, gosh, yes, the wood tomatch, like, yeah, doing that
necessarily would be hard to doit, just otherwise, you'd have
to do something else. Do
Pastor Joe Liles (35:57):
you remember where we got that wood from? Do
you remember that story was thatthe flooring? Because there's
that at Airport Boulevard, yeah.
So we were over there in thestore. It was like a salvage or
something, wasn't it? So thatwas from JB Hunt, and one of
their facilities in Rogerscalled us and said, Hey, we have
all this walnut paneling thatwe're about to get rid of. And
they said, Could you use it? AndI had no idea what to use it for
(36:19):
and look. And I was, like,walnut handling. Like, legit
wanted, like, yeah. And I waslike, Well, come take a look at
and it's gorgeous, walnutfamily.
Tom Helmich (36:27):
Yes, that's one thing that I'm not good. Like, I
can't, I don't have thatcreative side.
Pastor Joe Liles (36:31):
Well, like, that wall was a disaster. That
wall came about out of it cameabout, as I would say, is only
God intended because I had thisbeautiful, like, 3d thing that I
was going to do where I, like,layered the wood on top of each
other, and it was all the rage,like you just layered all this
wood, and it was this reallycool, like, modern, but rustic
kind of deal. And I was like,great. And so we're building out
(36:52):
the space, we're getting to ourfirst space ever, and we're
sitting and we're building, andI realized that this wood is
about half an inch thick, so itdoesn't look like doesn't slay
it's too nice. So it didn'tlike, and we just started
building it out, and I'm like,Oh, this is horrible. And I just
sat, and we just sat in thespace for like, two hours, and I
just sat in the middle of theroom just looking at the wall,
(37:12):
going, this is a disaster. Andall we had were the sides filled
in right and the cross
Tom Helmich (37:18):
right. Now look at this. It doesn't look like a
disaster well, so if you look atit, because I didn't see it in
the process. I just came tochurch one morning and saw like,
that's awesome. It is a reallygorgeous piece, having it off to
the side, yeah, I remember theconversation when we did that of
trying to find a place becausewe wanted to put it into this
building. Oh, yeah. We wantedto, yeah, because there was part
of our worship, but there wasnowhere it fit. Yeah, yeah. And
(37:40):
try to find that wood again tofill it out into this was
problematic.
Pastor Joe Liles (37:45):
But, yeah, yeah. And remember, we had the
cross over here too. Yeah, if weget one more cross, we get three
crosses in the space, which Ithink is great, yeah, but both
crosses are to the side. Yeah,it's great. It's all over there.
So, so Okay, so your approval.
And now the final process, then,if I heard it correctly, is that
you have your approval. They'renow going back. The faculty will
prove right what I hope, yeah,you hope, yeah. So the faculty,
(38:07):
we hope, will approve. When doesthat happen? When is the date
Tom Helmich (38:12):
of approval that that committee meeting is on the
14th. On the 14th, okay? Becauseit because they told me. So
we'll send you back. We'll draftthe language send it to the
committee. They'll sign off onit, I'm sure, and then we'll
send it to you. And if there'sstuff you want tweaked, you
know, you kind of let us know.
I'm like, Yeah, that's like,seven days before ordination. I
don't think I'm gonna have timefor that. I'll just go with what
you say. And I don't know theywould change it for me anyway,
but they give you an opportunityto, like, this is what we think
(38:35):
of your ministry readiness.
Yeah. If you disagree, let usknow. We'll reconsider. Yeah,
but at that point it'll be over,so yeah, it'll
Pastor Joe Liles (38:43):
be done. It'll be done. Okay? So that's the
14th of May. 18 is when thebishop is here, right? And we
have vote, and our vote,congregational meeting is that
day. So you have approval,you're approved, then we have to
call you, right? So you will becalled to the neighborhood
church.
Tom Helmich (38:59):
That means you'll have to write that letter like,
Monday, Yeah, correct? Like, wehave to do it in order, right?
Yeah. Because then that's got togo to the bishop for preemptive
beforehand, because she's got toapprove the letter and prove the
language that I sent
Pastor Joe Liles (39:11):
away. It's like buying a house, special
certificate, everything elselike that. We got to go to the
title company afterwards andmake sure that they sign off and
so that will be 18thcongregational meeting, and then
the 21st so 18, literally, inthose seven days.
Tom Helmich (39:27):
And while y'all are voting, yeah, I will be at
commencement. Yeah, you're nothere. You're up at graduation,
which is interesting when youthink like the Reformation
aspect, because Commencement forWartburg, for these Lutheran
pastors, yeah, isn't at SaintJoseph the worker Catholic
Church. And it is funny. So I'mgraduating a Lutheran
Pastor Joe Liles (39:44):
seminar. Is that the one in the round? Yes,
yeah. Oh, that's right, yeah.
Tom Helmich (39:47):
My commencement is that we're at Roman Catholic
Church in Dubuque, Iowa, inIowa. Okay, so we'll drive the
17th, because it's like 10hours, and then I'll have
commencement Sunday, thebaccalaureate and the
commencement that afternoon. Andwe'll get up Monday to drive
back. Yep, that's true. That'strue. And then I'll have Tuesday
to do any final prepping stuffin here for the youth party and
(40:07):
ordination Wednesday. Yeah,that's beautiful. And one thing
I probably I won't see if shehears it on this or whether or
not we had to think we need the,I don't think we need the
approval from the bishop for theparty theme. Oh, yeah. But you
really drop that.
Pastor Joe Liles (40:20):
I heard it.
You heard it. Tom, what are youdoing on that Wednesday? Well,
because
Tom Helmich (40:24):
it's if the congregation says no, or if we
this wasn't happening right now,it was going to be the party for
the end of warehouse, yeah. Andmy wife, who's brilliant, thinks
that every party needs a theme,yep. And because the ordination,
which I looked it up, the Latincomes from ordinari, which means
to put in order, yeah. Becausethat's a more formal event. So
(40:44):
I'll be wearing an ALB and thengetting stole put on me, yes,
which is like, the symbolic,symbolic of the yoke of the
burden of discipleship. She'slike, it's a lot of robes and
formal attire we need to theparty needs to be Harry Potter
themes. All the kids can wearrobes. Yeah? That's right. I'm
like, sure, yeah, do like butterbeard, like your cream soda
floats and stuff, you know, andstuff like that, for the kids.
So it'd be a Harry Potter themedyouth party. That's beautiful.
(41:06):
The After Party, after theordination,
Pastor Joe Liles (41:08):
that's beautiful. That's beautiful. So
what is so you're heading up onthe 17th. You said, Saturday,
yeah, that Saturday. And then isthere anything going on a
Saturday? Is only Sunday?
There's
Tom Helmich (41:16):
like, a banquet, different stuff going on
Saturday night. You can sign upfor, I know we may kind of do
our own thing a little bit. Mywife's never been to Dubuque
before. Oh, wow. Okay, so we'rekind of see some of the stuff,
the like the the MississippiRiver Museum, yeah, that's
Pastor Joe Liles (41:28):
great, like that. That's great. Town river
rock area, yeah, it's reallyfun. And then what time is
commencement on
Tom Helmich (41:33):
Sunday? Uh, 3pm 3pm Yeah, baccalaureate, 11, and
commencement at three. That'sbeautiful.
Pastor Joe Liles (41:37):
I love it. I love it. Alright, that's great.
So interestingly enough, right?
We've shared for an hour aboutwhat the seminary process is,
and we still got a little bitleft. There's probably stuff I
left out on there. Oh, no, but,I mean, I think that's, I mean,
it's a beautiful kind of processof just talking through what
you've gone through. Andnormally, this can't happen in
four years, right? If you go,yeah, I did mine in four years,
but I was on campus, so, like, Iwas just focused on that solely,
(42:00):
right? Did the exact process.
Went through everything there.
But honestly, as a distributedlearner, right? You can actually
do that process while you'restill working. That was the
first part of your seminarycareer, and then you retired,
and now you're sir, you did aninternship, yeah, right after
that. And then now serving rightas you kind of finished off
school. And so then the J, the Jterm overseas to Yeah, so, and
then you'll be called here aspastor of care and education.
(42:23):
Okay, is
Tom Helmich (42:25):
that? What are the title of Pastor of care, of who
was like, faith, formation,education or caring? That makes
sense, because part of the, alot of the interview, a lot of
the languages are surrounding,you know, pastoral care and
chaplaincy and so,
Pastor Joe Liles (42:36):
absolutely, absolutely so. So this is
exciting. So Can people ask youquestions on Sunday? So say
like, they get to see you onSunday and you're around to your
right. Can they come up and askyou questions about the seminary
process and things like that?
Tom Helmich (42:46):
Sunday the vote, I'll be in Iowa, correct it
won't have my phone turned on,but anytime they see me, yeah,
they can ask questions.
Pastor Joe Liles (42:51):
That's awesome. I've actually had some
people come up and ask aboutseminary last couple weeks, so
I'm going to send them your wayso they can talk about it. Yeah,
so that'll be really great. SoSo that's great. So we got an
update on the seminary processand what that's like. So this
was a discovery podcast of justwhat is seminary like next week
in the church. Not
Tom Helmich (43:07):
that scary. Once you go through it a little bit
at a time, it's not like, don'tbe scared of it, like you can be
done
Pastor Joe Liles (43:12):
beautiful, bro. I loved my time at
seminary. Loved it. So thisSunday is May the fourth, and
what they call it is Star WarsSunday May the Fourth be with
you table. We're going to haveto do like that, right? You
know, just as something, right,something the Empire March,
right, whatever. Put that underthe countdown, yes. And they're
just kind of starting with it,right? And I saw, I saw one
(43:34):
great voice of the church putout and said, Don't be solo this
Sunday. And it was a picture ofyou with you, yeah, yeah, it's
good. And then next week isMother's Day, or the following
Sunday is Mother's Day, andwe'll be doing a 90s theme music
and then sacred Sunday on yourcommencement, which would be
really incredible. Are they livestreaming commencement? I don't
know. I'm assuming, if they do,we might have a live stream
(43:55):
event here to watchcommencement, right, and see
that. But you know what? We'lljust we'll have fun, right?
Yeah, it'd be great. So so thereyou go. TNC podcast for
discovery of what is seminarytruly like with our upcoming
pastor, hopefully with all threevotes happening in the positive
of Karen education Tom hellmuchand all guys, people said, Amen.
I.
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