September 9, 2024 • 41 mins
Dr. Idha Sood joins us today to talk about NeurAnki.
What is Anki? For the uninitiated, it is "a free and open-source flashcard program. It uses techniques from cognitive science such as active recall testing and spaced repetition to aid the user in memorization."
Idha talks with us about the process of undertaking a project of this magnitude and the management challenges that came along with it.
Learn more about NeurAnki here
You can find Dr. Idha Sood on X/Twitter here.
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The views expressed do not necessarily represent those of any associated organizations. The information in this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only and does not represent specific medical/health advice. Please consult with an appropriate health care professional for any medical/health advice.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Michael Kentris (00:01):
Hello and welcome back to the
Neurotransmitters.
I am so happy you could join ustoday.
I'm your host, Dr MichaelKentris, and today we are
talking about studying neurology, like we always do, but with an
extra special twist.
I am joined today by Dr IthaSood Itha, thank you so much for
joining me today.
Idha Sood (00:21):
Thank you, Dr Kentris .
That was an amazingintroduction.
Michael Kentris (00:25):
Thank you, I'm really.
I'm at the end of my clinic dayand I have to project excessive
energy, so so thank you.
It is projecting well, so youknow we've been working together
on a project, but in realityyou are the driving force behind
this project of NeurAnki, orhowever you care to pronounce it
(00:48):
.
So tell me first of all, forthose who aren't familiar, what
is Anki and why do we care?
Idha Sood (00:56):
Okay, so Anki is a flashcard-based software that
was actually created initiallyto learn languages and then,
maybe a billion years ago,someone in med school thought,
hey, I'm tired of reading booksand I'd like to actively learn
using flashcards.
So they created this deck calledthe Anking, which is very
(01:18):
popular among med students, andthat's what they use in med
school to study for their MLEexaminations, what they use in
med school to study for theirMLE examinations, and which is
what I used to study for my MLEexaminations.
And then I was done with likemy rotations and the math season
was starting and I wasbasically kind of jobless and
(01:39):
I'm someone who needs to likework on something or have a side
project always to be excitedabout, and I just wanted I just
got a little bit curious,thinking, oh, let me just check
out the deck for neurologyresidents, because obviously a
billion years ago someone wouldhave had an idea to create it
for neurology residents, like amed student did.
(01:59):
And then I could not find one,and and that's when I was like,
okay, maybe this is somethingthat people might be interested
in.
And that's how the idea or theconcept of Neuranki, which is
how I pronounce it was born.
Michael Kentris (02:16):
Well, I have no idea, so I'm certainly not
going to correct you.
Idha Sood (02:20):
Yeah, it's, a lot of people like to call it Neuranki.
And then the other day I wasjust thinking why did I just not
keep it simple and call itNeuro Anki?
But no, I had to add my flairto it and it's Neuro Anki
Officially.
It's Neuro Anki, but whatever.
Michael Kentris (02:36):
It's your brainchild, you get to call it
whatever you want.
Idha Sood (02:38):
Yeah.
Michael Kentris (02:40):
So pretty big undertaking.
So how did you kind of frameout the project?
Idha Sood (02:44):
pretty big undertaking.
So how did you kind of frameout the project?
Well, the story starts with you.
I had absolutely no idea aboutwhat resources neurology
residents use to study for theirright or board examinations.
I didn't even know there wassomething called a right
examination when I first thoughtof creating Neuronkey and, like
(03:08):
I said, I was at home bored,just thinking about what to do
next.
And when I thought about this, Iremembered that I had seen you
pop up on my Twitter feedexcessively, wow, excessively
(03:30):
Healthy, limit of excessively.
And I knew healthy, healthy,limit of excessively.
And then, um, I knew that youwere into medical education.
Um, so I decided I might likereach out to you, hoping that
you would say yes, of course,we'll do it, which is what you
did.
So, thank, thank you for that,because you really like to say,
oh, I didn't do much.
But truthfully, if you at thattime had been like you know what
, this might be a little toodifficult and I do not know if
(03:54):
we'll be able to do it then Imight have just not gone through
with it.
So take credit where it's due,dr Kentress.
Michael Kentris (04:02):
It's very kind of you to say so.
I'm happy to have been yourencouraging behind the scenes
person.
Idha Sood (04:12):
Well, and then when you finally agreed, I just
thought, yeah, if I can just getlike five people to sit with me
and like create this, thiswould be great, to sit with me
and like create this, this wouldbe great.
And that's when I decided tomake that google form, which we
both discussed and we bothworked on, and we released it.
(04:33):
And I was actually, I mean,happy is not it's too, um,
easier word like I don't knowthe response that I got, which
was like, I think, 300 or 400responses within like a week.
Michael Kentris (04:54):
That's crazy.
Idha Sood (04:55):
That's when I knew that, okay, people are
interested.
Definitely this is somethingthat people want.
So it was not me just thinkingabout it, bored like one day,
which it was, but it was not mejust thinking about it, bored
like one day, which it was, butit was not something that was
completely useless, you know.
So this is something thatpeople are interested in.
And that's when I realized,okay, so how many people would
(05:16):
actually be interested inworking on it?
Because a lot of people saidthat, yeah, we'd want to use it,
but I still didn't know howmany people would actually want
to work on it, because that'swhere the commitment comes in
and that's where sometimes, theschedules it might not match up.
So again, it was like, okay,people understood, but how do I
create this?
And then again, I just wanted10 people, but no, a lot of
(05:41):
people were interested incontributing for it as well.
Um, and the challenge becamenow trying to create a team of
people, of way too many people,um, dividing them up, um, and
these people were from not onlylike different parts of us,
they're from different parts ofthe world with like very widely
(06:05):
different time zones.
So I was just thinking, oh mygod, how do I divide people up
according to the subspecialtythat they are interested in
contributing to, into a teamwith people who they'll work
well with, since I didn't knowanybody?
And how can I make sure that we, although we have too many
(06:33):
people, how can I make sure thatpeople are contributing
meaningfully enough to createlike a set number of cards, so
that they do feel that it's notjust five minutes of their time
that they have contributed andthey've created something that
they're you know, eight to ninemonths down the line, would be
happy to say that they were apart of?
(06:54):
So that was the second timewhen I reached out to you, when
I was like this is a mess, thisis way too many people and
there's a lot of overlap.
I do not know how to do this.
And that's when you told meokay, let's just create an excel
sheet, let's start from there.
So I remember it took me likethree or four hours to sort
(07:17):
through um, my responses on thegoogle form and put people under
the specialties and then see,okay, how many people are
overlapping and where can I?
How do I divide the teams?
And that's when I realized, yep, I can't do this alone, I'm
going to need some other leadersto sort of come and help me out
(07:40):
.
That's when we decided tocreate the co leaders or the
core team heads for eachsubspecialty.
So then I had to roll outanother Google form.
So I kind of increased myworkload there and, sure, the
same as the previous Google form.
I got like pretty nice responsesand this time I stopped at like
(08:02):
20 responses.
I was like, okay, this is it,like no more accepting responses
.
And then I talked to a fewpeople.
I have had certain leadershipexperiences before Neerangi
which sort of helped me decidewho would be good to work with.
So I did end up talking tocertain people just on text,
(08:27):
asking what their time scheduleis going to be like, how much
will they be able to contribute,how many people will they be
comfortable managing?
And that's when I had my coreteam leaders.
Once that was set, I was alittle, I took like a little
breath.
And that's when I divided upthe teams and I was expecting
attrition.
I knew that a lot of peoplewould want to sign up.
(08:50):
But then you know, because oftheir work schedules or because
of the different time zones, Iwas pretty sure that a lot of
people are going to will not beable to fulfill their
commitments because excitementonly lasts so long, which which
which, which was which was so.
I was able to foresee that andthat came in handy because I put
(09:14):
in a lot of people in in in thein each respective subspecialty
team and then, as I predicted,quite many of them sort of left
as well.
But then that is why I had keptthe first Google form open and
new people kept on signing up,so I would keep on going back to
(09:35):
my Google form.
See, okay, now I have like 50more responses.
Okay, how many peopleinterested in contributing?
Pick them up, put them in thesubspecialty teams.
And that is how we got.
We had like this uh, waterfallapproach to workload where, okay
, three people have not beenresponding to the core team
leader.
They come to me being like Idon't have members and I just
(09:57):
add new people, and that is howwe sort of made sure that at
least the workflow is notencrypted, even with people
dropping out.
And that is how we sort of likecreated the whole team and in
the end we got our list ofcontributors which we released
on social media.
(10:17):
Thank you to each and every oneof you who finally stuck.
I think I counted it was likearound 70 people by the end of
it, out of 900 people thatsigned up.
Michael Kentris (10:30):
That's almost 10% right.
Idha Sood (10:32):
Almost 10%.
Yeah, so these were the oneswho, in the end, not just
contributed to their ownsubspecialty of choice, but they
also like whenever I needed,whenever one subspecialty was
struggling.
I had a few people who werelike super contributors, if you
would, if that's the correctterm for them.
(10:54):
I did make a Twitter post forlike special mentions for them.
These were just like five, sixpeople who were there to sort of
step in whenever needed, and wedid all of this on a platform
called Slack, which, again, Ithink I got to know because of
the neurotransmitters.
I didn't know Slack existedbefore that.
(11:16):
So, yeah, we were able to,because if I had to email each
and every person, I would havelike gone crazy.
So I'm glad that Slack existsand we used it, and that is how
sort of our whole team cametogether.
Michael Kentris (11:34):
Excellent, yeah , no, that is a lot of work.
And you know, I do want topoint out, right, you took what?
About 10 months it was lessthan a year to get this whole
project from idea to launch.
Is that correct?
Yes, which is impressive.
(11:54):
Let's just say that Now,obviously, this is a study tool
for medical trainees, right?
So a certain level of accuracyneeded to be there, right?
Because we're talking aboutvolunteers, which are mostly
other medical students, maybeeven pre-med some people, and
maybe some medical residents orresidents of various stages of
(12:17):
training.
Does that sum it up pretty well?
Idha Sood (12:20):
Yes.
Michael Kentris (12:21):
So you needed some fact checkers?
Yes, so tell me about how youbuilt a team of fact checkers.
Idha Sood (12:28):
Yeah, that was the most interesting part and I just
like skipped through it when Iwas talking about how I created
it.
Thank you for asking thatquestion.
So, um, um.
So initially I had not thoughtabout faculty reviewers at all.
Um, you were part of theproject and I was like, okay, I
have like one board certifiedneurologist, like as the face of
(12:51):
it, and that's fine.
I was not thinking aboutreviewing, getting it reviewed
at all, because I do not thinkAnking the deck which is used
for medical students.
I don't think they used anyfaculty reviewers, so that idea
had not crossed my mind till itwas actually Dr Marawar who
(13:12):
reached out to you saying thissounds like a nice idea and I'm
ready to get on board.
And that's when I was like, ohwait, if we have like epilepsy
people, then maybe other peoplewould be, you know, interested
as well.
And because I was like semistalkerish, active on Twitter, I
knew, like the neurologists whoare big on medical education
(13:37):
and that's when I reached out toDr Christie for pediatric
neurology and Dr Saylor forinfectious diseases and these
were my first two sort of peopleI knew who might say yes, and
both of them did.
And then it just startedgrowing from there, and then I
(14:00):
just had to ask, like all of you, oh so, do you have any
recommendations for, let's say,vascular neurology or a reviewer
for neuromuscular?
So that's when all of you sortof helped me build those
connections.
I know you sent the email to,or you told me to send an email
(14:21):
to, dr Esteban, who was theauthor of the book that we have
used to create this deck, andwhen he got on board, that's
when I was like, fully satisfied, that's when I was.
I was not worried about, likequality at all, because I knew
when the author is on board Now,now, now we're not going to
(14:43):
have any issues and he broughtup a very interesting point,
which was that, okay, now thatyou are creating this and now
that you have all these facultyguides on board, you want to
make sure there are no copyrightissues, which, again, was
something that I had not thoughtabout at all, because when we
create our cards, we just copypaste from our resources, but
(15:06):
that's for, like personal use.
Now, this was something that Iwas creating for like mass use
and, yes, then the problem ofcopyright could have come up and
, like I'm already very scaredabout the american legal system.
I did not want to get sued foranything.
So, um, that's when I realized,okay, it's good that I have
(15:27):
such a huge team, because thisis going to need paraphrasing
rather than just like simplecopy pasting.
And then we used only opensource images from like
Radiopedia or open sourcejournals, open access journals
that allow you to use the images, provided it's not for any
monetary benefit.
(15:52):
That's how we sort of created adeck, not only just with simple
text but also pictures, and thengot it verified from our
faculty reviewers, who were whoI'm I'm I'm just so thankful for
, because I mean, now that Ihave started residency, I have
zero time and these all thefaculty guys are like very
active in medical education andthey have their own projects
going on and they have to mentorresidents and they have to see
(16:14):
patients.
But they came up like, but theyagreed to be on board with this
.
So I'm very thankful to eachand every faculty reviewer and
everybody like replied to allthe emails that I sent.
So I did not feel neglected atall.
I felt very supportive doingall of this, so it kept me going
(16:36):
.
And, yeah, we had this wholedeck come through which met
certain quality standards, sothat we can tell our users that
you can use it without beingwithout questioning whether it
is factually correct or not.
Michael Kentris (16:53):
Yes, high quality neurology education is
our mantra here on theneurotransmitters, so it is
important to note right.
You know things will change interms of the latest evidence,
latest guidelines, so there willbe some things that may drift
out of date.
So be aware of that as timegoes on.
But you've had a lot ofinteraction with people already
(17:17):
using it because it's been outwhat two weeks now as of this
recording?
Idha Sood (17:19):
I think so.
Wow, it has been two weeks.
Michael Kentris (17:22):
Yes, Approximately, approximately.
So what's the feedback you'vegotten so far?
Idha Sood (17:28):
I think I've been on cloud nine since launch day.
A lot of people downloaded it.
I think the first day we hadaround 800 downloads and then we
crossed 1000 downloads by daytwo and as of today, as told by
you, I think, we are more than1600 downloads, which is crazy,
(17:50):
crazy good.
Michael Kentris (17:52):
Yes, as of checking my email before we
started recording 1,660 is thecurrent tally.
Idha Sood (17:59):
Clap, clap, clap.
Michael Kentris (18:00):
Yes, Congratulations to you.
And you and so, in addition toI'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead.
You're going to tell me moreabout Beyond Cloud 9.
Idha Sood (18:19):
I'm good with that.
But the thing that I wanted tomention was that I was petrified
on launch day because, I mean,even though I knew that it's
good, I still was scared aboutthe feedback and whether, like,
I missed something and whetherthe quality was as good as I
hoped.
Because my job throughout theprocess was more like
coordination and peoplemanagement and meeting deadlines
(18:40):
and literally motivating peopleto like make cards and finish
on time, and taking cards fromthe team and the core heads and
bringing them to the faculty andjust my whole job was like
managerial.
So I never ended up creating acard, like I did for a few decks
where I had to step in.
(19:01):
So I knew that that portion isgoing to be great.
But, as a type A personality whois, like, very detail oriented,
I was petrified that you knowwhat?
I have not seen each and everysingle card that has been made
and oh my God, what's going tohappen.
So I was very happy that peopleliked it.
I think when they downloaded itand just at first glance for
(19:23):
them it looked great.
I've had a few people reach outto me saying that it looks
amazing, and I've had peoplereach out to me saying now they
want to create one forpsychiatry and like other um
specialties as well.
Good luck to you.
I'm not gonna do that again.
It was an amazing, but it was.
It was an amazing experience,but it was like time consuming
(19:45):
and my life had become murankium.
I did not care about myresidency interviews at all
during this whole time.
So if, if, if, other peoplewant to like go ahead and create
texts for their ownsubspecialties, please go ahead.
Just know that it's going to beum quite a bit of time
(20:08):
commitment and you're going tolose all sense of night and day
and you're going to be liketalking to a bit of time
commitment and you're going tolose all sense of night and day
and you're going to be liketalking to a lot of people.
So, if you're an introvert whokind of like loses energy
talking to people, just makesure you have like a good team
supporting you.
That's all.
Michael Kentris (20:22):
I definitely put myself in that camp, to be
honest.
So, yeah, it's been great.
Now, obviously, us us beinginterested in medical education
we have taken this opportunitynot just to create a useful
study resource but to do somemedical scholarship ourselves.
Idha Sood (20:41):
So tell me a little bit about the survey that's been
developed and what that allentails so I think, as new
rankings started every, whenever, whenever the next path or the
next phase of creating it orworking on it would become clear
, I would have like another stepadded to it for the future.
(21:04):
So, before the launch itself,like when it was close to the
launch, and when I had, likewhen I was done creating the
cards and when it was beingreviewed, I did have this idea
about okay, now I want to seewhether it's useful or not.
Yeah, people are going to useit, but is it going to help them
?
So that is when me and a fewpeople that I worked with in
(21:29):
Noranki and I'm going to namedrop here because they've been
amazing, so that's Zainab, jakeSossman and Caleb Manan.
These were people who workedwith me in Nooranki.
These were the one of thespecial mentions that I would
just like email them.
Hey, I need help with thissection, can you work on it?
And they were just like alwaysthere.
Need help with this section,can you work on it?
(21:52):
And they were just like alwaysthere.
So, um, I reached out to themand it was one zoom call where I
was like I have this idea for aresearch project because I want
to see that now we are creatingthis, but does it actually help
neurology residents improveupon their write scores?
Um, are they going to use itmore than, like, let's say,
sitting and reading a textbook?
Because I know, know, inresidency it's different from
med school.
(22:12):
You learn a lot while on thejob.
You learn a lot seeing patients.
You learn from your attendings.
You sort of learn from up todate.
So there are all these otherresources as well.
Where does exactly Neuranki fitin and will it be something
that would contribute to theirright scores improving?
(22:34):
So we have planned a study,which is a part of it.
A small part of it was thepre-use survey that we released
on launch day with our deck andthankfully we've got 600 plus
responses on that.
I haven't checked it today.
It might be more, but from thelast time I checked it it has
(22:56):
been like around 600 responses.
So thank you to each and everyone who filled out that survey,
because that was not mandatory,that was volunteer only.
So I'm really thankful toeveryone who filled out the
survey.
We're going to be using thatand that's going to be a part of
us knowing whether we meet theexpectations of the user 10
(23:23):
months down the line, whenyou've used it, when you've
taken an end right examinationand when you can tell us how you
feel about it now.
Will you continue to use it forthe next year or will you throw
it away?
I hope you don't throw it away.
I hope you use it for the nextyear as well.
Um, but that's, that's thebasic um idea behind the next
phase of nirangi, which is justlike studying whether it is
(23:46):
useful and um.
Another uh thing that I wouldlike to mention is that I've
gotten a lot of queries abouthow it's going to be updated.
How can we make sure thatlatest information is in there?
So, first of all, neuranki isalso editable in the sense that
(24:09):
we did create a lot of fields sothat residents can personalize
their deck, including lecturenotes.
So whenever you go on to yourdidactics, you have your
attendings or you have yourpeers give presentations with
the latest information One, youcan add them directly to your
cards, so you can add as manyimages as you want.
(24:29):
If you read a journal, if youread a paper about a topic that
you came across in clinics andyou want to add information from
that, you can add that also toyour deck.
Plus, we will be releasingNeuranki very soon on Anki Hub,
which is a software.
I don't think it's exactly free,but it's not very expensive and
(24:54):
when we put it on there thereare certain moderators that kind
of make sure that the deck isupdated.
Anybody from any part of theworld using the deck can give
suggestions as they're using it,and if they come across a card
that they feel is not quitecorrect and that needs to be
changed, or new information hascome up that can be added to the
(25:14):
card.
That's when people can makesuggestions and the moderator on
Anki hub takes care ofeverything.
So that way I don't have toworry about it.
You don't have to worry aboutit.
It gets updated every day andyou can.
You can download.
If someone is using it say nextyear we have a new pgy2
(25:37):
neurology resident who wants tostart using your anki then you
can download it from anki hubwith up-to-date information, not
worrying about learninginformation that's not quite
accurate.
So we do have a plan and we'regonna do it.
Just like give me 10 minutes tobreathe, that's all.
Michael Kentris (25:58):
Yes, and it will be very interesting to see
how, how people do, how thelong-term reception of it as a
study tool is right, cause itdoes use a lot of those
evidence-based learningtechniques, uh, like space
repetition and uh God, what'sthe other big buzzword?
Thank you, yes.
See, that's the opposite ofwhat we did just now.
Idha Sood (26:21):
Yes.
Michael Kentris (26:22):
But yes, so it does.
And those are kind of, I think,two of the best, most robust
things for learning informationand committing it to long-term
memory.
So I think I'm cautiouslyoptimistic about what we'll see
in terms of performance forpeople's in-service training
exams and potentially even theboard exams.
So it should be pretty cool,and one of the things I really
(26:44):
like is that it does have youknow.
You mentioned earlier, like allthese different subspecialty
categories like neuromuscularand epilepsy, and
neuroinfectious and autonomics,and on and on and on, and you
know some of these, like thechild neurology section in
particular.
I remember when I was aresident, I was hitting several
chapters just over and over andover again, child neurology
(27:06):
being one of those andneuro-oncology being the other.
But I was just reading thosechapters over and over again
because there's so much minutiaethat you have to know for your
board exams, and I think thatthis is the kind of tool that
will really help cement some ofthat information in your memory.
Idha Sood (27:24):
I agree, I cannot learn the names of genes and
proteins and which stain forwhich tumor.
I don't get that.
I'm going to use Nooranki forthat.
Yes, yeah, that was my issuewith just passive reading as
well.
And, like I said once, I thinkonce you go the Anki way, it's
(27:46):
very hard to return.
Once you start learning byeither solving questions or
using flashcards, it isimpossible to go back to passive
reading, and in my med schoolwe, our exams, were a different
format altogether, so we had toread and then we had to, like,
write long paragraphs.
That that's the way I used tostudy and I can never go back
(28:10):
because of Anki Hence.
Hence Neuranki was created,because I cannot go back to that
.
So, yeah, it does use spacedrepetition and active recall,
and we have created it so thatpeople can continue to use these
techniques beyond their medschool for residency as well,
and I just hope that it ends upbeing used as much as I want it
(28:35):
to.
Michael Kentris (28:36):
Yeah, I think.
Well, if the initial numbersare anything, then I think,
there's a very good chance,right, if we think about how
many neurology residencies thereare in the country and how many
times it's already beendownloaded.
Yeah, I did not think about itlike that I think it was like
120, 130, something around thereneurology residencies.
So it's been downloaded 1600times already.
Idha Sood (28:59):
Oh wow, okay, that's great.
Michael Kentris (29:00):
Right, you're probably fairly notorious at
this point.
Idha Sood (29:07):
Yeah.
Michael Kentris (29:08):
So it's very exciting Now you're actually
going to be presenting some ofour initial data coming up at
some conferences in the nearfuture.
Idha Sood (29:15):
Yes, so Neeranki is coming to AN, which is happening
in um, orlando next week.
Is it next week?
Yes, it is next week.
Yes, I have to create a posterfor that.
I haven't done it.
Um, so, um, this, uh, uh.
This poster is just going to beabout um, the initial.
(29:36):
So this is based on the Googleform that I released the first
time asking people if they thinkthat something like this can be
used by neurology residents.
Will Neurankya as a tool besomething that they would be
interested in?
Will it fit their schedules?
Do they feel that they'll beable to use it long term and be
(29:57):
more consistent with it, ratherthan the current study resources
that they use?
And we had a lot of like.
I said, I had almost 900responses in total on that, so
I'm going to be presenting thatdata at ANA and I have other
plans as well for, hopefully,aan in like the next year as far
(30:21):
as Neeranki is concerned.
So if anyone who's interested,please come to my poster.
It's on Sunday, september 15th.
I'd love to meet you.
I'd love to talk to you moreabout it and also the study that
we are planning, which is theprospective study to see whether
(30:41):
NIRANKI has any effect onNRIGHT scores.
Please come talk to me aboutthat as well.
We would love to enroll you andwe would love to sort of like
what is the idiom?
What is the saying?
Put my money where my mouth is.
Is that the saying?
Michael Kentris (30:59):
Yes, I believe you have it, we would love to do
that.
Now the thing that is, I think,most impressive is you did all
of this as a medical student,right?
You're currently in your internyear.
Idha Sood (31:13):
Yes.
Michael Kentris (31:14):
You have basically built a nationwide
slash international coalition tobuild this study resource.
Idha Sood (31:25):
Yes.
Michael Kentris (31:26):
How does that make you feel?
Idha Sood (31:29):
I mean to the point, when you put it into words, I
don't think about it like that.
And then you start saying thesethings and I get uncomfortable.
And then you start saying thesethings and I get uncomfortable.
That's how I feel.
Yeah, I was, I had graduatedTechnically.
I was a medical graduate.
Michael Kentris (31:49):
But yeah, same as like a medical student just
out of med school In limbo.
Idha Sood (31:50):
In limbo, yes, in the in between state.
It did, it did.
It did take a lot of my energy.
Now that I look at it, becauseby the time launch day came, I
was done.
I was like I can't anymore, andI think that happens when
you've put like a lot of energyand a lot of time into it.
So, yes, I'm happy that, like,I have made certain friends
(32:15):
through it and I've made certainconnections, certain people
that I know.
If I have any future projects,I'm going to be reaching out to
them because they have beenproven to be like trustworthy
and reliable.
Um, I'm great Niranji gave methat.
Um, I'm also happy.
I mean, yeah, if you thinkabout it like there's someone
working in, like I had peoplefrom every continent except
(32:38):
Antarctica, I think.
Um, I know I had people from,uh, brazil, many, many people
from US, india, Pakistan, um, alot of countries in Europe as
well, georgia.
I think my geography improvedso much when I looked up where
people were joining me from.
So I'm really glad that this is, yes, like, not just like a
(33:03):
resource which can beinternationally used, but also
like internationally created,like for the people, by the
people.
Michael Kentris (33:15):
So if you had to talk to, let's say, ida from
a year ago and give her anyadvice, to speak to the you you
know the pre-residency you andgive them advice on starting a
project that is this widespread,what kind of recommendations
would you have for you?
Idha Sood (33:34):
Where do you come up with these questions, dr Kentris
?
That was very creative.
I'm actually pretty happy withthe past Idha and how she
handled things and I thinkthat's because I had, like,
other leadership experiencesbefore that in which I learned a
lot.
So those were the experiencesthat I mishandled so that
(33:54):
Neeranki was handled well.
So that Neeranki was handledwell, I would just say the only
advice that I would give theprevious idha which I still give
this idha but I never follow isto like take a break day, like
a scheduled break day, once aweek when you do not think about
(34:15):
the thing that you're activelyworking on, which I still
struggle with.
And sometimes, when I take abreak day, it's not.
It's not really a break daybecause I keep on
procrastinating rather than likeI would do other things, I
would not work on it but stillbe at the back of my mind, and
then the break day would end butI would not feel refreshed.
So the one thing, the oneadvice that I would give the
(34:37):
previous Siddha was just takethe correct amount, the correct
number of breakdays that youneed, so that you don't crash
and then, you know, go off theface of the earth for a week
because you didn't schedule yourbreakdays in advance the
correct way.
So that's something like takeit, take it a little easy, have
(35:02):
some faith in yourself.
Don't try not to be an extremetype a personality, um, try to
delegate more.
Um, I think I handled it prettywell, but yeah, I could have
delegated it a little bit moreso that it was um, not as much
pressure on me.
But but overall I think I'mpretty happy with the previous
(35:23):
Hitha, like pat on the back,like we did it, we did it.
Michael Kentris (35:28):
It is very impressive, I will say I
couldn't even conceive of youknow past Michael doing
something like this when he wasjust, you know, pre-residency.
You know that guy had his hairon fire.
But going forward, has thisgiven you a taste for research
in medical education?
Or?
Idha Sood (35:52):
are there more arenas that you wish to explore?
So, yes, I think it has givenme taste for medical education,
but more than that, I feel myinterest lies in leadership and
projects like heading projects.
I think I worked really wellwith people this time, probably
(36:13):
because we were all neurologistsand like, yeah, we rock.
I think it was so much easierto like deal with people who
were interested in neurology,passionate about neurology.
I didn't have to force anybodyto do anything, which has not
been my past leadershipexperience, which is why this
was just like great.
The whole 10 months was justpositive.
I never had one uncomfortableinteraction with anybody and
(36:37):
even when I had to like let afew people go, it was because of
mutual understanding that theywere not able to meet the
demands that was required ofthem, which was understandable
because of whatever stage thatthey were in, be it medical
student or in limbo, like me,like I was, or as a resident.
So I feel I feel that's where Iwould love like after a good
(37:01):
number, a good number of days ofbreak, not right now, but I
would love to like conceive ofsomething that that is useful on
a large scale.
I think that's where myinterests lie.
Even if I get into research formedical education or, let's say
, any other subspecialty focusedresearch, my interests always
(37:24):
lie in something that can bewidely applied and that's some
and something that is useful.
So it's still very broad as faras future prospects are
concerned.
But I know leadership is onearea that I feel very
comfortable with that I want toexplore more and that's the path
(37:46):
that I want to take and grow in.
Michael Kentris (37:48):
Better be careful or you'll wind up.
Chief resident.
Idha Sood (37:53):
I'm a baby intern right now.
Michael Kentris (37:56):
It's only a few years away.
Idha Sood (37:57):
We'll see.
Michael Kentris (38:02):
This has been a fun conversation.
I'm very excited that you havecrossed the finish line on this
project.
It is incredibly impressive andI also am looking forward to
seeing how it performs now thatit's out in the real world.
And if people want to find theresources that you've made, if
they want to get in touch withyou, where should they find you
(38:23):
online?
Idha Sood (38:26):
Do they really want to get in touch with me?
Michael Kentris (38:29):
Okay, If you want, we don't have to tell them
.
They can do it on their own.
Idha Sood (38:32):
Yeah, so well, jokes aside, yes, you can get in touch
with me, for sure, um, I thinkthe best place would be twitter,
because that's where, um,that's the social media that,
like, I end up opening up themost, because that's like purely
and purely academic based.
There is no personal.
There is some personal umphotographs or some personal
(38:53):
information out there, um, thatpeople put on twitter, but
mostly it's just like academicbased and that's where, like,
the whole neurology community is, especially the ones interested
in education.
So, if you want to reach out tome, of course you can.
You can text me on Twitter.
You can also email me.
I think, by this point,everything is like out on Google
, so there's a lot of ways toreach me, but Twitter is the
(39:15):
best way.
I do encourage other people ifthey want to create something
like this for their ownsubspecialties, please go ahead
and do it and let me know howthe process goes for you, um, I
hope it's not as long as it wasfor me, or I hope it goes as
smoothly as it did for me.
Um, so, yes, you can.
(39:36):
You can reach out me If youwant to participate, if you're a
resident and you want toparticipate in the study that
we're going to do to see whetherUranki is useful for in-write
examinations.
Then please reach out to me,whether it's Twitter or email or
any form of social media thatyou're comfortable with.
(39:57):
I'm everywhere.
Michael Kentris (39:59):
What's your handle out there, by the way?
Idha Sood (40:09):
Oh, yeah, my oh.
Now I feel embarrassed.
My handle is Joyful Astrocyteand that's just because my name
means joy.
And well, everyone is a neuron,so I just wanted to be like a
supporting cell.
So that's why I'm a joyfulastrocyte on Twitter.
So please, please, do reach outto me.
Michael Kentris (40:23):
Excellent, excellent.
And until we get the filesmigrated over, you can still
find it on theneurotransmitterscom, I believe,
slash neuroanky and we'll stillhave a link going forward to
wherever we end up migrating itpermanently.
So we'll keep that online there.
And of course, you can alsofind me on Twitter, slash X at
(40:44):
Dr Kentris D-R-K-E-N-T-R-I-S.
Not as creative.
Idha Sood (40:48):
We need to change.
I was about to say we need tochange your Twitter handle now.
Michael Kentris (40:52):
I like that.
You know yours has like oh, I'mhappy, I'm joyful, I'm an
astrocyte, I'm supporting all ofmy fellow neurons.
Yours has layers, mine's justmy name.
Idha Sood (41:02):
So much more creative .
We balance each other.
Michael Kentris (41:13):
You know nothing flashy about it, so
always a pleasure talking withyou.
We'll put links to all thestuff in the show notes for
today and we'll get this outbefore you're showing up at ANA
so that hopefully you getbombarded by neurology residents
and other faculty interested inyour project.
Idha Sood (41:25):
Thank you.
Thank you, Dr Kentress.
Michael Kentris (41:27):
All right, you take care.
Idha Sood (41:29):
Okay, you too.
Hello and welcome back to the
Neurotransmitters.
I am so happy you could join ustoday.
I'm your host, Dr MichaelKentris, and today we are
talking about studying neurology, like we always do, but with an
extra special twist.
I am joined today by Dr IthaSood Itha, thank you so much for
joining me today.
Idha Sood (00:21):
Thank you, Dr Kentris .
That was an amazingintroduction.
Michael Kentris (00:25):
Thank you, I'm really.
I'm at the end of my clinic dayand I have to project excessive
energy, so so thank you.
It is projecting well, so youknow we've been working together
on a project, but in realityyou are the driving force behind
this project of NeurAnki, orhowever you care to pronounce it
(00:48):
.
So tell me first of all, forthose who aren't familiar, what
is Anki and why do we care?
Idha Sood (00:56):
Okay, so Anki is a flashcard-based software that
was actually created initiallyto learn languages and then,
maybe a billion years ago,someone in med school thought,
hey, I'm tired of reading booksand I'd like to actively learn
using flashcards.
So they created this deck calledthe Anking, which is very
(01:18):
popular among med students, andthat's what they use in med
school to study for their MLEexaminations, what they use in
med school to study for theirMLE examinations, and which is
what I used to study for my MLEexaminations.
And then I was done with likemy rotations and the math season
was starting and I wasbasically kind of jobless and
(01:39):
I'm someone who needs to likework on something or have a side
project always to be excitedabout, and I just wanted I just
got a little bit curious,thinking, oh, let me just check
out the deck for neurologyresidents, because obviously a
billion years ago someone wouldhave had an idea to create it
for neurology residents, like amed student did.
(01:59):
And then I could not find one,and and that's when I was like,
okay, maybe this is somethingthat people might be interested
in.
And that's how the idea or theconcept of Neuranki, which is
how I pronounce it was born.
Michael Kentris (02:16):
Well, I have no idea, so I'm certainly not
going to correct you.
Idha Sood (02:20):
Yeah, it's, a lot of people like to call it Neuranki.
And then the other day I wasjust thinking why did I just not
keep it simple and call itNeuro Anki?
But no, I had to add my flairto it and it's Neuro Anki
Officially.
It's Neuro Anki, but whatever.
Michael Kentris (02:36):
It's your brainchild, you get to call it
whatever you want.
Idha Sood (02:38):
Yeah.
Michael Kentris (02:40):
So pretty big undertaking.
So how did you kind of frameout the project?
Idha Sood (02:44):
pretty big undertaking.
So how did you kind of frameout the project?
Well, the story starts with you.
I had absolutely no idea aboutwhat resources neurology
residents use to study for theirright or board examinations.
I didn't even know there wassomething called a right
examination when I first thoughtof creating Neuronkey and, like
(03:08):
I said, I was at home bored,just thinking about what to do
next.
And when I thought about this, Iremembered that I had seen you
pop up on my Twitter feedexcessively, wow, excessively
(03:30):
Healthy, limit of excessively.
And I knew healthy, healthy,limit of excessively.
And then, um, I knew that youwere into medical education.
Um, so I decided I might likereach out to you, hoping that
you would say yes, of course,we'll do it, which is what you
did.
So, thank, thank you for that,because you really like to say,
oh, I didn't do much.
But truthfully, if you at thattime had been like you know what
, this might be a little toodifficult and I do not know if
(03:54):
we'll be able to do it then Imight have just not gone through
with it.
So take credit where it's due,dr Kentress.
Michael Kentris (04:02):
It's very kind of you to say so.
I'm happy to have been yourencouraging behind the scenes
person.
Idha Sood (04:12):
Well, and then when you finally agreed, I just
thought, yeah, if I can just getlike five people to sit with me
and like create this, thiswould be great, to sit with me
and like create this, this wouldbe great.
And that's when I decided tomake that google form, which we
both discussed and we bothworked on, and we released it.
(04:33):
And I was actually, I mean,happy is not it's too, um,
easier word like I don't knowthe response that I got, which
was like, I think, 300 or 400responses within like a week.
Michael Kentris (04:54):
That's crazy.
Idha Sood (04:55):
That's when I knew that, okay, people are
interested.
Definitely this is somethingthat people want.
So it was not me just thinkingabout it, bored like one day,
which it was, but it was not mejust thinking about it, bored
like one day, which it was, butit was not something that was
completely useless, you know.
So this is something thatpeople are interested in.
And that's when I realized,okay, so how many people would
(05:16):
actually be interested inworking on it?
Because a lot of people saidthat, yeah, we'd want to use it,
but I still didn't know howmany people would actually want
to work on it, because that'swhere the commitment comes in
and that's where sometimes, theschedules it might not match up.
So again, it was like, okay,people understood, but how do I
create this?
And then again, I just wanted10 people, but no, a lot of
(05:41):
people were interested incontributing for it as well.
Um, and the challenge becamenow trying to create a team of
people, of way too many people,um, dividing them up, um, and
these people were from not onlylike different parts of us,
they're from different parts ofthe world with like very widely
(06:05):
different time zones.
So I was just thinking, oh mygod, how do I divide people up
according to the subspecialtythat they are interested in
contributing to, into a teamwith people who they'll work
well with, since I didn't knowanybody?
And how can I make sure that we, although we have too many
(06:33):
people, how can I make sure thatpeople are contributing
meaningfully enough to createlike a set number of cards, so
that they do feel that it's notjust five minutes of their time
that they have contributed andthey've created something that
they're you know, eight to ninemonths down the line, would be
happy to say that they were apart of?
(06:54):
So that was the second timewhen I reached out to you, when
I was like this is a mess, thisis way too many people and
there's a lot of overlap.
I do not know how to do this.
And that's when you told meokay, let's just create an excel
sheet, let's start from there.
So I remember it took me likethree or four hours to sort
(07:17):
through um, my responses on thegoogle form and put people under
the specialties and then see,okay, how many people are
overlapping and where can I?
How do I divide the teams?
And that's when I realized, yep, I can't do this alone, I'm
going to need some other leadersto sort of come and help me out
(07:40):
.
That's when we decided tocreate the co leaders or the
core team heads for eachsubspecialty.
So then I had to roll outanother Google form.
So I kind of increased myworkload there and, sure, the
same as the previous Google form.
I got like pretty nice responsesand this time I stopped at like
(08:02):
20 responses.
I was like, okay, this is it,like no more accepting responses
.
And then I talked to a fewpeople.
I have had certain leadershipexperiences before Neerangi
which sort of helped me decidewho would be good to work with.
So I did end up talking tocertain people just on text,
(08:27):
asking what their time scheduleis going to be like, how much
will they be able to contribute,how many people will they be
comfortable managing?
And that's when I had my coreteam leaders.
Once that was set, I was alittle, I took like a little
breath.
And that's when I divided upthe teams and I was expecting
attrition.
I knew that a lot of peoplewould want to sign up.
(08:50):
But then you know, because oftheir work schedules or because
of the different time zones, Iwas pretty sure that a lot of
people are going to will not beable to fulfill their
commitments because excitementonly lasts so long, which which
which, which was which was so.
I was able to foresee that andthat came in handy because I put
(09:14):
in a lot of people in in in thein each respective subspecialty
team and then, as I predicted,quite many of them sort of left
as well.
But then that is why I had keptthe first Google form open and
new people kept on signing up,so I would keep on going back to
(09:35):
my Google form.
See, okay, now I have like 50more responses.
Okay, how many peopleinterested in contributing?
Pick them up, put them in thesubspecialty teams.
And that is how we got.
We had like this uh, waterfallapproach to workload where, okay
, three people have not beenresponding to the core team
leader.
They come to me being like Idon't have members and I just
(09:57):
add new people, and that is howwe sort of made sure that at
least the workflow is notencrypted, even with people
dropping out.
And that is how we sort of likecreated the whole team and in
the end we got our list ofcontributors which we released
on social media.
(10:17):
Thank you to each and every oneof you who finally stuck.
I think I counted it was likearound 70 people by the end of
it, out of 900 people thatsigned up.
Michael Kentris (10:30):
That's almost 10% right.
Idha Sood (10:32):
Almost 10%.
Yeah, so these were the oneswho, in the end, not just
contributed to their ownsubspecialty of choice, but they
also like whenever I needed,whenever one subspecialty was
struggling.
I had a few people who werelike super contributors, if you
would, if that's the correctterm for them.
(10:54):
I did make a Twitter post forlike special mentions for them.
These were just like five, sixpeople who were there to sort of
step in whenever needed, and wedid all of this on a platform
called Slack, which, again, Ithink I got to know because of
the neurotransmitters.
I didn't know Slack existedbefore that.
(11:16):
So, yeah, we were able to,because if I had to email each
and every person, I would havelike gone crazy.
So I'm glad that Slack existsand we used it, and that is how
sort of our whole team cametogether.
Michael Kentris (11:34):
Excellent, yeah , no, that is a lot of work.
And you know, I do want topoint out, right, you took what?
About 10 months it was lessthan a year to get this whole
project from idea to launch.
Is that correct?
Yes, which is impressive.
(11:54):
Let's just say that Now,obviously, this is a study tool
for medical trainees, right?
So a certain level of accuracyneeded to be there, right?
Because we're talking aboutvolunteers, which are mostly
other medical students, maybeeven pre-med some people, and
maybe some medical residents orresidents of various stages of
(12:17):
training.
Does that sum it up pretty well?
Idha Sood (12:20):
Yes.
Michael Kentris (12:21):
So you needed some fact checkers?
Yes, so tell me about how youbuilt a team of fact checkers.
Idha Sood (12:28):
Yeah, that was the most interesting part and I just
like skipped through it when Iwas talking about how I created
it.
Thank you for asking thatquestion.
So, um, um.
So initially I had not thoughtabout faculty reviewers at all.
Um, you were part of theproject and I was like, okay, I
have like one board certifiedneurologist, like as the face of
(12:51):
it, and that's fine.
I was not thinking aboutreviewing, getting it reviewed
at all, because I do not thinkAnking the deck which is used
for medical students.
I don't think they used anyfaculty reviewers, so that idea
had not crossed my mind till itwas actually Dr Marawar who
(13:12):
reached out to you saying thissounds like a nice idea and I'm
ready to get on board.
And that's when I was like, ohwait, if we have like epilepsy
people, then maybe other peoplewould be, you know, interested
as well.
And because I was like semistalkerish, active on Twitter, I
knew, like the neurologists whoare big on medical education
(13:37):
and that's when I reached out toDr Christie for pediatric
neurology and Dr Saylor forinfectious diseases and these
were my first two sort of peopleI knew who might say yes, and
both of them did.
And then it just startedgrowing from there, and then I
(14:00):
just had to ask, like all of you, oh so, do you have any
recommendations for, let's say,vascular neurology or a reviewer
for neuromuscular?
So that's when all of you sortof helped me build those
connections.
I know you sent the email to,or you told me to send an email
(14:21):
to, dr Esteban, who was theauthor of the book that we have
used to create this deck, andwhen he got on board, that's
when I was like, fully satisfied, that's when I was.
I was not worried about, likequality at all, because I knew
when the author is on board Now,now, now we're not going to
(14:43):
have any issues and he broughtup a very interesting point,
which was that, okay, now thatyou are creating this and now
that you have all these facultyguides on board, you want to
make sure there are no copyrightissues, which, again, was
something that I had not thoughtabout at all, because when we
create our cards, we just copypaste from our resources, but
(15:06):
that's for, like personal use.
Now, this was something that Iwas creating for like mass use
and, yes, then the problem ofcopyright could have come up and
, like I'm already very scaredabout the american legal system.
I did not want to get sued foranything.
So, um, that's when I realized,okay, it's good that I have
(15:27):
such a huge team, because thisis going to need paraphrasing
rather than just like simplecopy pasting.
And then we used only opensource images from like
Radiopedia or open sourcejournals, open access journals
that allow you to use the images, provided it's not for any
monetary benefit.
(15:52):
That's how we sort of created adeck, not only just with simple
text but also pictures, and thengot it verified from our
faculty reviewers, who were whoI'm I'm I'm just so thankful for
, because I mean, now that Ihave started residency, I have
zero time and these all thefaculty guys are like very
active in medical education andthey have their own projects
going on and they have to mentorresidents and they have to see
(16:14):
patients.
But they came up like, but theyagreed to be on board with this
.
So I'm very thankful to eachand every faculty reviewer and
everybody like replied to allthe emails that I sent.
So I did not feel neglected atall.
I felt very supportive doingall of this, so it kept me going
(16:36):
.
And, yeah, we had this wholedeck come through which met
certain quality standards, sothat we can tell our users that
you can use it without beingwithout questioning whether it
is factually correct or not.
Michael Kentris (16:53):
Yes, high quality neurology education is
our mantra here on theneurotransmitters, so it is
important to note right.
You know things will change interms of the latest evidence,
latest guidelines, so there willbe some things that may drift
out of date.
So be aware of that as timegoes on.
But you've had a lot ofinteraction with people already
(17:17):
using it because it's been outwhat two weeks now as of this
recording?
Idha Sood (17:19):
I think so.
Wow, it has been two weeks.
Michael Kentris (17:22):
Yes, Approximately, approximately.
So what's the feedback you'vegotten so far?
Idha Sood (17:28):
I think I've been on cloud nine since launch day.
A lot of people downloaded it.
I think the first day we hadaround 800 downloads and then we
crossed 1000 downloads by daytwo and as of today, as told by
you, I think, we are more than1600 downloads, which is crazy,
(17:50):
crazy good.
Michael Kentris (17:52):
Yes, as of checking my email before we
started recording 1,660 is thecurrent tally.
Idha Sood (17:59):
Clap, clap, clap.
Michael Kentris (18:00):
Yes, Congratulations to you.
And you and so, in addition toI'm sorry, go ahead, go ahead.
You're going to tell me moreabout Beyond Cloud 9.
Idha Sood (18:19):
I'm good with that.
But the thing that I wanted tomention was that I was petrified
on launch day because, I mean,even though I knew that it's
good, I still was scared aboutthe feedback and whether, like,
I missed something and whetherthe quality was as good as I
hoped.
Because my job throughout theprocess was more like
coordination and peoplemanagement and meeting deadlines
(18:40):
and literally motivating peopleto like make cards and finish
on time, and taking cards fromthe team and the core heads and
bringing them to the faculty andjust my whole job was like
managerial.
So I never ended up creating acard, like I did for a few decks
where I had to step in.
(19:01):
So I knew that that portion isgoing to be great.
But, as a type A personality whois, like, very detail oriented,
I was petrified that you knowwhat?
I have not seen each and everysingle card that has been made
and oh my God, what's going tohappen.
So I was very happy that peopleliked it.
I think when they downloaded itand just at first glance for
(19:23):
them it looked great.
I've had a few people reach outto me saying that it looks
amazing, and I've had peoplereach out to me saying now they
want to create one forpsychiatry and like other um
specialties as well.
Good luck to you.
I'm not gonna do that again.
It was an amazing, but it was.
It was an amazing experience,but it was like time consuming
(19:45):
and my life had become murankium.
I did not care about myresidency interviews at all
during this whole time.
So if, if, if, other peoplewant to like go ahead and create
texts for their ownsubspecialties, please go ahead.
Just know that it's going to beum quite a bit of time
(20:08):
commitment and you're going tolose all sense of night and day
and you're going to be liketalking to a bit of time
commitment and you're going tolose all sense of night and day
and you're going to be liketalking to a lot of people.
So, if you're an introvert whokind of like loses energy
talking to people, just makesure you have like a good team
supporting you.
That's all.
Michael Kentris (20:22):
I definitely put myself in that camp, to be
honest.
So, yeah, it's been great.
Now, obviously, us us beinginterested in medical education
we have taken this opportunitynot just to create a useful
study resource but to do somemedical scholarship ourselves.
Idha Sood (20:41):
So tell me a little bit about the survey that's been
developed and what that allentails so I think, as new
rankings started every, whenever, whenever the next path or the
next phase of creating it orworking on it would become clear
, I would have like another stepadded to it for the future.
(21:04):
So, before the launch itself,like when it was close to the
launch, and when I had, likewhen I was done creating the
cards and when it was beingreviewed, I did have this idea
about okay, now I want to seewhether it's useful or not.
Yeah, people are going to useit, but is it going to help them
?
So that is when me and a fewpeople that I worked with in
(21:29):
Noranki and I'm going to namedrop here because they've been
amazing, so that's Zainab, jakeSossman and Caleb Manan.
These were people who workedwith me in Nooranki.
These were the one of thespecial mentions that I would
just like email them.
Hey, I need help with thissection, can you work on it?
And they were just like alwaysthere.
Need help with this section,can you work on it?
(21:52):
And they were just like alwaysthere.
So, um, I reached out to themand it was one zoom call where I
was like I have this idea for aresearch project because I want
to see that now we are creatingthis, but does it actually help
neurology residents improveupon their write scores?
Um, are they going to use itmore than, like, let's say,
sitting and reading a textbook?
Because I know, know, inresidency it's different from
med school.
(22:12):
You learn a lot while on thejob.
You learn a lot seeing patients.
You learn from your attendings.
You sort of learn from up todate.
So there are all these otherresources as well.
Where does exactly Neuranki fitin and will it be something
that would contribute to theirright scores improving?
(22:34):
So we have planned a study,which is a part of it.
A small part of it was thepre-use survey that we released
on launch day with our deck andthankfully we've got 600 plus
responses on that.
I haven't checked it today.
It might be more, but from thelast time I checked it it has
(22:56):
been like around 600 responses.
So thank you to each and everyone who filled out that survey,
because that was not mandatory,that was volunteer only.
So I'm really thankful toeveryone who filled out the
survey.
We're going to be using thatand that's going to be a part of
us knowing whether we meet theexpectations of the user 10
(23:23):
months down the line, whenyou've used it, when you've
taken an end right examinationand when you can tell us how you
feel about it now.
Will you continue to use it forthe next year or will you throw
it away?
I hope you don't throw it away.
I hope you use it for the nextyear as well.
Um, but that's, that's thebasic um idea behind the next
phase of nirangi, which is justlike studying whether it is
(23:46):
useful and um.
Another uh thing that I wouldlike to mention is that I've
gotten a lot of queries abouthow it's going to be updated.
How can we make sure thatlatest information is in there?
So, first of all, neuranki isalso editable in the sense that
(24:09):
we did create a lot of fields sothat residents can personalize
their deck, including lecturenotes.
So whenever you go on to yourdidactics, you have your
attendings or you have yourpeers give presentations with
the latest information One, youcan add them directly to your
cards, so you can add as manyimages as you want.
(24:29):
If you read a journal, if youread a paper about a topic that
you came across in clinics andyou want to add information from
that, you can add that also toyour deck.
Plus, we will be releasingNeuranki very soon on Anki Hub,
which is a software.
I don't think it's exactly free,but it's not very expensive and
(24:54):
when we put it on there thereare certain moderators that kind
of make sure that the deck isupdated.
Anybody from any part of theworld using the deck can give
suggestions as they're using it,and if they come across a card
that they feel is not quitecorrect and that needs to be
changed, or new information hascome up that can be added to the
(25:14):
card.
That's when people can makesuggestions and the moderator on
Anki hub takes care ofeverything.
So that way I don't have toworry about it.
You don't have to worry aboutit.
It gets updated every day andyou can.
You can download.
If someone is using it say nextyear we have a new pgy2
(25:37):
neurology resident who wants tostart using your anki then you
can download it from anki hubwith up-to-date information, not
worrying about learninginformation that's not quite
accurate.
So we do have a plan and we'regonna do it.
Just like give me 10 minutes tobreathe, that's all.
Michael Kentris (25:58):
Yes, and it will be very interesting to see
how, how people do, how thelong-term reception of it as a
study tool is right, cause itdoes use a lot of those
evidence-based learningtechniques, uh, like space
repetition and uh God, what'sthe other big buzzword?
Thank you, yes.
See, that's the opposite ofwhat we did just now.
Idha Sood (26:21):
Yes.
Michael Kentris (26:22):
But yes, so it does.
And those are kind of, I think,two of the best, most robust
things for learning informationand committing it to long-term
memory.
So I think I'm cautiouslyoptimistic about what we'll see
in terms of performance forpeople's in-service training
exams and potentially even theboard exams.
So it should be pretty cool,and one of the things I really
(26:44):
like is that it does have youknow.
You mentioned earlier, like allthese different subspecialty
categories like neuromuscularand epilepsy, and
neuroinfectious and autonomics,and on and on and on, and you
know some of these, like thechild neurology section in
particular.
I remember when I was aresident, I was hitting several
chapters just over and over andover again, child neurology
(27:06):
being one of those andneuro-oncology being the other.
But I was just reading thosechapters over and over again
because there's so much minutiaethat you have to know for your
board exams, and I think thatthis is the kind of tool that
will really help cement some ofthat information in your memory.
Idha Sood (27:24):
I agree, I cannot learn the names of genes and
proteins and which stain forwhich tumor.
I don't get that.
I'm going to use Nooranki forthat.
Yes, yeah, that was my issuewith just passive reading as
well.
And, like I said once, I thinkonce you go the Anki way, it's
(27:46):
very hard to return.
Once you start learning byeither solving questions or
using flashcards, it isimpossible to go back to passive
reading, and in my med schoolwe, our exams, were a different
format altogether, so we had toread and then we had to, like,
write long paragraphs.
That that's the way I used tostudy and I can never go back
(28:10):
because of Anki Hence.
Hence Neuranki was created,because I cannot go back to that
.
So, yeah, it does use spacedrepetition and active recall,
and we have created it so thatpeople can continue to use these
techniques beyond their medschool for residency as well,
and I just hope that it ends upbeing used as much as I want it
(28:35):
to.
Michael Kentris (28:36):
Yeah, I think.
Well, if the initial numbersare anything, then I think,
there's a very good chance,right, if we think about how
many neurology residencies thereare in the country and how many
times it's already beendownloaded.
Yeah, I did not think about itlike that I think it was like
120, 130, something around thereneurology residencies.
So it's been downloaded 1600times already.
Idha Sood (28:59):
Oh wow, okay, that's great.
Michael Kentris (29:00):
Right, you're probably fairly notorious at
this point.
Idha Sood (29:07):
Yeah.
Michael Kentris (29:08):
So it's very exciting Now you're actually
going to be presenting some ofour initial data coming up at
some conferences in the nearfuture.
Idha Sood (29:15):
Yes, so Neeranki is coming to AN, which is happening
in um, orlando next week.
Is it next week?
Yes, it is next week.
Yes, I have to create a posterfor that.
I haven't done it.
Um, so, um, this, uh, uh.
This poster is just going to beabout um, the initial.
(29:36):
So this is based on the Googleform that I released the first
time asking people if they thinkthat something like this can be
used by neurology residents.
Will Neurankya as a tool besomething that they would be
interested in?
Will it fit their schedules?
Do they feel that they'll beable to use it long term and be
(29:57):
more consistent with it, ratherthan the current study resources
that they use?
And we had a lot of like.
I said, I had almost 900responses in total on that, so
I'm going to be presenting thatdata at ANA and I have other
plans as well for, hopefully,aan in like the next year as far
(30:21):
as Neeranki is concerned.
So if anyone who's interested,please come to my poster.
It's on Sunday, september 15th.
I'd love to meet you.
I'd love to talk to you moreabout it and also the study that
we are planning, which is theprospective study to see whether
(30:41):
NIRANKI has any effect onNRIGHT scores.
Please come talk to me aboutthat as well.
We would love to enroll you andwe would love to sort of like
what is the idiom?
What is the saying?
Put my money where my mouth is.
Is that the saying?
Michael Kentris (30:59):
Yes, I believe you have it, we would love to do
that.
Now the thing that is, I think,most impressive is you did all
of this as a medical student,right?
You're currently in your internyear.
Idha Sood (31:13):
Yes.
Michael Kentris (31:14):
You have basically built a nationwide
slash international coalition tobuild this study resource.
Idha Sood (31:25):
Yes.
Michael Kentris (31:26):
How does that make you feel?
Idha Sood (31:29):
I mean to the point, when you put it into words, I
don't think about it like that.
And then you start saying thesethings and I get uncomfortable.
And then you start saying thesethings and I get uncomfortable.
That's how I feel.
Yeah, I was, I had graduatedTechnically.
I was a medical graduate.
Michael Kentris (31:49):
But yeah, same as like a medical student just
out of med school In limbo.
Idha Sood (31:50):
In limbo, yes, in the in between state.
It did, it did.
It did take a lot of my energy.
Now that I look at it, becauseby the time launch day came, I
was done.
I was like I can't anymore, andI think that happens when
you've put like a lot of energyand a lot of time into it.
So, yes, I'm happy that, like,I have made certain friends
(32:15):
through it and I've made certainconnections, certain people
that I know.
If I have any future projects,I'm going to be reaching out to
them because they have beenproven to be like trustworthy
and reliable.
Um, I'm great Niranji gave methat.
Um, I'm also happy.
I mean, yeah, if you thinkabout it like there's someone
working in, like I had peoplefrom every continent except
(32:38):
Antarctica, I think.
Um, I know I had people from,uh, brazil, many, many people
from US, india, Pakistan, um, alot of countries in Europe as
well, georgia.
I think my geography improvedso much when I looked up where
people were joining me from.
So I'm really glad that this is, yes, like, not just like a
(33:03):
resource which can beinternationally used, but also
like internationally created,like for the people, by the
people.
Michael Kentris (33:15):
So if you had to talk to, let's say, ida from
a year ago and give her anyadvice, to speak to the you you
know the pre-residency you andgive them advice on starting a
project that is this widespread,what kind of recommendations
would you have for you?
Idha Sood (33:34):
Where do you come up with these questions, dr Kentris
?
That was very creative.
I'm actually pretty happy withthe past Idha and how she
handled things and I thinkthat's because I had, like,
other leadership experiencesbefore that in which I learned a
lot.
So those were the experiencesthat I mishandled so that
(33:54):
Neeranki was handled well.
So that Neeranki was handledwell, I would just say the only
advice that I would give theprevious idha which I still give
this idha but I never follow isto like take a break day, like
a scheduled break day, once aweek when you do not think about
(34:15):
the thing that you're activelyworking on, which I still
struggle with.
And sometimes, when I take abreak day, it's not.
It's not really a break daybecause I keep on
procrastinating rather than likeI would do other things, I
would not work on it but stillbe at the back of my mind, and
then the break day would end butI would not feel refreshed.
So the one thing, the oneadvice that I would give the
(34:37):
previous Siddha was just takethe correct amount, the correct
number of breakdays that youneed, so that you don't crash
and then, you know, go off theface of the earth for a week
because you didn't schedule yourbreakdays in advance the
correct way.
So that's something like takeit, take it a little easy, have
(35:02):
some faith in yourself.
Don't try not to be an extremetype a personality, um, try to
delegate more.
Um, I think I handled it prettywell, but yeah, I could have
delegated it a little bit moreso that it was um, not as much
pressure on me.
But but overall I think I'mpretty happy with the previous
(35:23):
Hitha, like pat on the back,like we did it, we did it.
Michael Kentris (35:28):
It is very impressive, I will say I
couldn't even conceive of youknow past Michael doing
something like this when he wasjust, you know, pre-residency.
You know that guy had his hairon fire.
But going forward, has thisgiven you a taste for research
in medical education?
Or?
Idha Sood (35:52):
are there more arenas that you wish to explore?
So, yes, I think it has givenme taste for medical education,
but more than that, I feel myinterest lies in leadership and
projects like heading projects.
I think I worked really wellwith people this time, probably
(36:13):
because we were all neurologistsand like, yeah, we rock.
I think it was so much easierto like deal with people who
were interested in neurology,passionate about neurology.
I didn't have to force anybodyto do anything, which has not
been my past leadershipexperience, which is why this
was just like great.
The whole 10 months was justpositive.
I never had one uncomfortableinteraction with anybody and
(36:37):
even when I had to like let afew people go, it was because of
mutual understanding that theywere not able to meet the
demands that was required ofthem, which was understandable
because of whatever stage thatthey were in, be it medical
student or in limbo, like me,like I was, or as a resident.
So I feel I feel that's where Iwould love like after a good
(37:01):
number, a good number of days ofbreak, not right now, but I
would love to like conceive ofsomething that that is useful on
a large scale.
I think that's where myinterests lie.
Even if I get into research formedical education or, let's say
, any other subspecialty focusedresearch, my interests always
(37:24):
lie in something that can bewidely applied and that's some
and something that is useful.
So it's still very broad as faras future prospects are
concerned.
But I know leadership is onearea that I feel very
comfortable with that I want toexplore more and that's the path
(37:46):
that I want to take and grow in.
Michael Kentris (37:48):
Better be careful or you'll wind up.
Chief resident.
Idha Sood (37:53):
I'm a baby intern right now.
Michael Kentris (37:56):
It's only a few years away.
Idha Sood (37:57):
We'll see.
Michael Kentris (38:02):
This has been a fun conversation.
I'm very excited that you havecrossed the finish line on this
project.
It is incredibly impressive andI also am looking forward to
seeing how it performs now thatit's out in the real world.
And if people want to find theresources that you've made, if
they want to get in touch withyou, where should they find you
(38:23):
online?
Idha Sood (38:26):
Do they really want to get in touch with me?
Michael Kentris (38:29):
Okay, If you want, we don't have to tell them
.
They can do it on their own.
Idha Sood (38:32):
Yeah, so well, jokes aside, yes, you can get in touch
with me, for sure, um, I thinkthe best place would be twitter,
because that's where, um,that's the social media that,
like, I end up opening up themost, because that's like purely
and purely academic based.
There is no personal.
There is some personal umphotographs or some personal
(38:53):
information out there, um, thatpeople put on twitter, but
mostly it's just like academicbased and that's where, like,
the whole neurology community is, especially the ones interested
in education.
So, if you want to reach out tome, of course you can.
You can text me on Twitter.
You can also email me.
I think, by this point,everything is like out on Google
, so there's a lot of ways toreach me, but Twitter is the
(39:15):
best way.
I do encourage other people ifthey want to create something
like this for their ownsubspecialties, please go ahead
and do it and let me know howthe process goes for you, um, I
hope it's not as long as it wasfor me, or I hope it goes as
smoothly as it did for me.
Um, so, yes, you can.
(39:36):
You can reach out me If youwant to participate, if you're a
resident and you want toparticipate in the study that
we're going to do to see whetherUranki is useful for in-write
examinations.
Then please reach out to me,whether it's Twitter or email or
any form of social media thatyou're comfortable with.
(39:57):
I'm everywhere.
Michael Kentris (39:59):
What's your handle out there, by the way?
Idha Sood (40:09):
Oh, yeah, my oh.
Now I feel embarrassed.
My handle is Joyful Astrocyteand that's just because my name
means joy.
And well, everyone is a neuron,so I just wanted to be like a
supporting cell.
So that's why I'm a joyfulastrocyte on Twitter.
So please, please, do reach outto me.
Michael Kentris (40:23):
Excellent, excellent.
And until we get the filesmigrated over, you can still
find it on theneurotransmitterscom, I believe,
slash neuroanky and we'll stillhave a link going forward to
wherever we end up migrating itpermanently.
So we'll keep that online there.
And of course, you can alsofind me on Twitter, slash X at
(40:44):
Dr Kentris D-R-K-E-N-T-R-I-S.
Not as creative.
Idha Sood (40:48):
We need to change.
I was about to say we need tochange your Twitter handle now.
Michael Kentris (40:52):
I like that.
You know yours has like oh, I'mhappy, I'm joyful, I'm an
astrocyte, I'm supporting all ofmy fellow neurons.
Yours has layers, mine's justmy name.
Idha Sood (41:02):
So much more creative .
We balance each other.
Michael Kentris (41:13):
You know nothing flashy about it, so
always a pleasure talking withyou.
We'll put links to all thestuff in the show notes for
today and we'll get this outbefore you're showing up at ANA
so that hopefully you getbombarded by neurology residents
and other faculty interested inyour project.
Idha Sood (41:25):
Thank you.
Thank you, Dr Kentress.
Michael Kentris (41:27):
All right, you take care.
Idha Sood (41:29):
Okay, you too.
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