June 17, 2025 • 54 mins
*This episode was filmed prior to the World Premiere of James' Film - As mentioned in this episode
What does it take to build a business that stays true to cultural values while thriving in today's fast-paced digital landscape? James Saunders, founder of Baraji Maweng, shares his remarkable journey from childhood in Logan as part of a family of nine children to becoming an entrepreneur, filmmaker, and advocate for authentic Indigenous representation.
https://bit.ly/James_Website
Growing up in a three-bedroom rental with eight siblings after his father returned to Victoria, James credits his mother with instilling both educational values and cultural connection. Despite financial hardships, she ensured her children maintained ties to their Gunditjmara and Wiradjuri heritage while embracing local Murray and Torres Strait Islander communities in Queensland. This foundation of cultural strength would later become central to James' business philosophy.
James speaks candidly about his winding path through early adulthood – from unemployment in regional Victoria to working at fitness clubs, health organizations, and eventually landing a media role that exposed him to national Indigenous politics. These experiences revealed a troubling pattern: his cultural knowledge and connections were generating wealth for others rather than building something sustainable for himself or his community.
This realization led to the creation of Baraji Maweng, a digital marketing business whose name combines the Wiradjuri words for "fly" and "together" – embodying James' vision of mutual success while maintaining cultural integrity. His approach focuses on empowering small Indigenous businesses with the skills they need to thrive in the digital space, with support from Indigenous Business Australia helping to forge crucial connections in the sector.
Beyond business, James is pursuing creative projects that reflect his commitment to authentic storytelling – from producing the documentary "Yoloo Country" about environmental justice in Western Australia to writing a book about his great-uncle, the first Indigenous person commissioned in the Australian Army. These endeavors demonstrate how entrepreneurship can create platforms for stories that might otherwise go untold.
Looking to support Indigenous businesses and authentic storytelling? Follow James' journey and discover how slowing down might be the most revolutionary act in a world that values constant hustle above all else.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
David (00:00):
James, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you for having me,brother.
Let's start with your name,full name mob, and a little bit
about your upbringing.
James (00:09):
Yeah, so my name is James Saunders.
My mob are, on my father's side, the Gunditjmara people,
southwest Victoria.
We're from the Gilgah andKilkerra clans of the
Gunditjmara Nation along thesouthwest coast and my mother's
family are Wurundjeri, the WongaWong people from around the
Trangie Central New South Walesregion.
David (00:31):
And you mentioned before.
You grew up in Logan.
James (00:34):
Yeah, I had the privilege to grow up in South Brisbane,
to grow up in Logan in the 90sand early 2000s.
It was a very different placethen but upon reflection I think
I'm quite happy to grow upthere with the influences I had
in my life.
David (00:50):
Let's talk about the childhood.
Let's talk about those first 15years, maybe navigating school
identity, all those things thatpre-social media we had to
navigate, pre-social media wehad to navigate.
James (01:04):
Yeah, so I was actually born in the south coast of New
South Wales in a place calledPambula.
We moved to Queensland when Iwas four years old, so in 1989.
My father and my mother at thetime we had seven children in
the family.
My mother then had her eighthchild, my younger brother, and
(01:28):
then, when mum was pregnant withher ninth child, my father
actually left my mother andmoved back to Gunujumara, back
to southwest Victoria.
Mum chose to stay in Queenslandbecause we kind of set up roots
in south Brisbane.
So she raised us kind of on herown.
So a single parent, ninechildren in a three-bedroom,
cheap rental, uh, you know, uhit was chaotic and interesting
(01:55):
and hard, not gonna lie.
It was tough, um, but she kindof forced us to maintain our
education.
So schooling was reallyimportant.
She kind of didn't want us tobe, you know, hopers, as she
called it, of course, and so sheforced us to really show up and
(02:17):
be present at school.
But we were quite happy to dothat.
I think we were quite socialchildren.
We were really big into sports.
So sports was a really big partof our lives.
So mum really got us involvedin the sporting community around
southeast Queensland.
We did everything from swimming, athletics, soccer, netball,
basketball, volleyball, rugby.
(02:37):
We were a very big sportyfamily and that sport opened
doors and that sport openeddoors.
But my mother, being anAboriginal woman, really wanted
us to maintain connection andculture.
So we had a very big engagementwith the local Murray community
here in South East Queenslandwhich was really good for us.
(02:58):
The Murray community reallywere good to our family and
embracing of us even though weweren't Murray.
Torres Strait Islanders werevery influential in our family
as well.
The Torres Strait IslanderChurch in Woodridge would
deliver us food, were a very bigpart of checking in on us and
making sure we were okay.
So we felt a part of thecommunity.
But mum actually, despite howshe felt towards my father, she
(03:20):
still sent us down to GoondahJamara as young children,
particularly us young boys.
We had a really strongconnection with the family there
and she wanted that.
So we knew who we were andwhere we came from.
So that was quite aninteresting upbringing.
And Southeast Queensland at thetime this is the 90s it was
(03:40):
going through massive changes.
Land rights was a really bigthing.
Marlborough decision in 1993.
Black media here was highlyinfluential.
Yeah, protests, that activistkind of world.
Mum worked in Native Title, sheworked for ATSIC, so we were
very much a part of it all.
Yeah, that's why when I sayliving in Logan, yeah, it was
(04:03):
tough, you saw poverty, you sawdesperation, but there was a lot
of beauty in that as well.
Wow.
David (04:12):
I'm just like blown away.
Like for mum to raise nine kidsjust that alone, let alone
trying to sort of let thechildren become part of the
community and know about cultureand where they're from.
Now, growing up with so manysiblings, was there moments
where it was hard to sort offeel that you were given that
(04:34):
time that you craved for?
Was there things you attachedyourself to very young, maybe
music or sports?
We did delve into sports, butwas there any times that you
started to notice?
Maybe as a teenager you drew orgravitated towards something?
James (04:50):
yeah, so there wasn't a lot of space in the house.
I have five sisters and threebrothers and I crave solitude.
I'm a bit of an introvert and Ilike my own company and I like
peace.
There wasn't a lot of peace inthe house so I was lucky that I
(05:11):
had a push bike and I wouldleave when I had time and I
wasn't at school and I would goriding and I'd spend time alone
in bushland all around the areaswe lived inuncorn and Marsden
and when we worked together assiblings.
My siblings were very creative,very entertaining, and my eldest
(05:32):
brother was particularlyentertaining and he got a video
camera.
I think mum bought a videocamera or got gifted a video
camera and we started to makemovies.
So horror was a big genre inour family.
We liked horror films.
So particularly around the timeof Halloween we'd make horror
(05:53):
films in the garage with thelocal kids and music was a huge
influence for us.
Our family on my father's sidewere quite musically inclined.
My cousin was in the bandtitters um and she's like a
first cousin we all really loveand adored her.
So music was huge.
You know, my sisters wereobsessed with Whitney Houston
(06:16):
and Mariah Carey the big USstars, so we would film, make
video clips, you know, andexpress ourselves just very
organically as a family.
My sisters also did modelingbecause they were quite tall and
attractive.
So yeah, as a family we kind ofwere just there's a sporty
(06:38):
element to us, but there's alsothis kind of creative element
and I kind of juggled thosethrough high school.
I studied drama and film andtelevision and I also played
every sport I possibly could.
So it's kind of alwaysbalancing those two aspects of
myself and I think the familydid that a lot as well.
David (06:58):
So you talked about sports, creativity, basically
artists, music.
I love that wiring.
I can say that that's somethingI resonate with.
Now let's talk about you'veleft school.
Now what was the first thingyou nurtured, and then we'll
talk about how you got into sortof your business.
(07:18):
Was it the sports or thecreativity?
Where did you go after school?
James (07:22):
Yeah.
So I left high school.
I finished year 12 in 2002.
And at the time my mother hadstarted a new relationship with
somebody and my mom and her newpartner decided they were going
to move to Cairns because mystepfather's from up Mossburn
Way.
(07:44):
I didn't really have anywhereto go.
I had been a boarding school.
I went to boarding school forfour years.
I didn't have any skills, Ihadn't worked while at boarding
school.
We weren't allowed to haveemployment outside of boarding
school because we didn't focuson our studies.
I didn't quite do wellacademically so I wasn't
(08:04):
planning to go to university andat that time there wasn't a lot
of opportunities outside of thetraditional routes.
So one of my sisters who was inCanberra at the Australian
Institute of Sport, she paid forme to fly one way to Melbourne
and my father picked me up inMelbourne and drove me four and
a half hours west to Lake CondorAboriginal Mission, where he
(08:27):
grew up.
And I lived on the mission withone of my older brothers out
there who was a caretaker of theMISH and I kind of was
unemployed, with no realdirection or kind of idea of
where I was going to go.
What I was going to do.
I knew I wanted to do things.
(08:47):
I wanted to study performingarts.
I wanted to study actingbecause I'd done drama for four
years at school.
But I didn't know how to dothat.
I didn't know anybody inMelbourne.
I had no money and there wasn'tthe pathways that are around
now for someone like me waysthat are around now for someone
(09:07):
like me.
So I cattle drafted, I didrandom jobs where I could.
I was on the unemploymentbenefit, on Centrelink, living
regionally.
So I hitchhiked around theWestern districts.
You know a lot of my family.
You know we're not they're notwealthy.
We don't come from a wealthyfamily.
You know there's nogenerational wealth.
Even though my grandfather andmy uncles had tried to build
(09:31):
generational wealth, there weresystems in place to stop that
Right.
So I stayed down there for abit.
I played Aussie rules for thefirst time and played footy you
know the Victorian footy whichwas an amazing experience and a
great sport.
That changed the way I viewedthe world of rugby and you know
fields and dimensions.
(09:54):
But I left.
I had to leave and I came backto Queensland and I got a
traineeship and I was kind ofgoing down a route that my
sister had pointed me on.
She said you know, get atraineeship.
And I was kind of going down aroute that my sister had pointed
me on.
She said you know, get atraineeship, get some
qualification behind you, evenif it's just a diploma, and you
might have a career in theQueensland government.
(10:14):
And at that time I needed, Ineeded independence.
You know I needed to.
I rented a studio in well, it'skind of near Paddington in
Brisbane, on my own littlestudio I think I had, like you
know, a tiny single bed and youknow a couple of things on my
(10:36):
clothes really that I boughtfrom Victoria.
And I did this traineeship,which was great, it gave me some
soft skills.
I did this traineeship, whichwas great, it gave me some soft
skills.
But I didn't see my life as apublic servant.
I wanted more and at the timehealth clubs and gyms were
becoming popular in SoutheastQueensland.
(10:57):
So I was training at FitnessFirst in good old Toowong and I
ended up getting a job atToowong Fitness First First just
working the front counter, andthat was really great because it
took my love for kind ofphysical activity and sports,
but it kind of was infused withthis kind of in a world that I
(11:17):
didn't quite.
I didn't quite engage with, youknow I was.
I was dealing with more wealthywhite people, you know.
Know, on a day-to-day basisthere was this like tall black
fella serving them, you know, onthe counter and at this point I
just kind of started todiscover my sexuality and
started to come to terms withthat and who I was as a gay
(11:39):
person.
Yeah, that's kind of the earlycareer kind of, you know, here
in southeast Queensland.
And then I moved to Sydney andSydney was a kind of rude
awakening, I think, because Ithought, I knew, I thought being
(12:02):
in Brisbane you know, people inToowong were wealthy and people
that lived to Hadda house andin Dupilly were wealthy Sydney
kind of slapped me in the facewhere I saw wealth en masse and
I I saw, uh, you know, it waskind of the gateway to the world
.
Really, you know, my whole lifehad been southeast Queensland,
south Brisbane, right.
So then I went to Sydney and itwas like this kind of awakening
(12:27):
and I kind of wanted to be apart of all of it, you know how
world would have opened up yeahyeah and it did and it it came
with opportunities, but it alsocame with hard lessons and I
think a big city like sydneyparticularly for mob that don't
grow up there it can be likethat and there's some of those
lessons can actually be quitedifficult to navigate if you're
(12:51):
not aware of what's going on.
You know underneath it all, ofcourse.
David (12:56):
A lot of history down there, history everywhere, but
Sydney especially.
James (13:01):
Yeah, with mob Yep, a lot of history, a lot of activism,
a lot of politics, localpolitics, and then also Sydney
as a city.
Yeah, it has its beauty andglamour and wealth and
opportunity, but also has itsdark side.
You know, there's the partying,there's the exploitation,
(13:22):
there's the fast-paced kind ofdog-eat-dog mentality hate
crimes yeah, all sorts of stuffyep, yep, very quickly I'll get
to the question.
David (13:34):
I was a trainer at intrapilly fitness first.
Used to train at to wong aroundthat same time.
Anyway, we can talk about thatlater, okay, wow yeah, there you
go there you go.
You've discovered who you areas a person, just your place.
This new world has opened up.
Now let's share insight intoyour business now and that step
(13:57):
into okay, I'm gonna start thisbusiness and let's talk about
your business and let everyoneknow what it is yeah, I will
start by saying this is not thefirst business that I run.
James (14:09):
It's actually my second.
The first business I startedwas back in 2013.
So to get to that point, I'lltell you on about that point.
To get to this point, I wasworking in Sydney.
I was still working withFitness first, but I'd gone to
kind of part-time and I wasworking at the AIDS Council in
(14:31):
New South Wales, which is kindof a big health organization
that helps people who are LGBTQand other you know,
drug-injecting users as well.
So it was like health programs,you know, for people in New
South Wales and I worked in theAboriginal and Torres Strait
Islander unit and I had no ideaI was studying part-time musical
theatre and I was working atFitness First and at ACON and at
(14:55):
that time I didn't have anyquals.
I was trying to get thiscertificate this, you know,
certificate for musical theatre,because I was still pursuing
becoming an actor.
It was still a thing that Iwanted to do and this
opportunity came up.
Someone said there's a campaignthat's been started, being run
(15:15):
by this person called AndrewTwiggy Forest, and I had no idea
at the time who that person was.
I thought Twiggy Forest was,you know a Twiggy Forest in the
bush.
You know, it turns out he was amining magnate.
He was funding a huge projectand they approached me for a
(15:36):
low-level position as a mediaofficer.
I had no media skills.
I'd used social media.
This was the time social mediawas becoming a thing.
So this is 2010,.
Right, facebook had been aroundfor a couple of years.
Twitter was becoming big,instagram was being born.
I had used them and I knewabout them, but I had never
managed an account before.
(15:57):
But through ACON and throughhealth promotion, I got to
understand a little bit aboutthe early days of kind of social
media moderation and the space.
I'm completely unaware of how,but I ended up getting the job
and I ended up being kind ofthrust into the middle of black
(16:18):
politics in Australia nationallyand I was thrown into.
I flew around the country.
You know we basically funded,we sponsored Gama Festival,
darwin Festival, sydney Festival, all these big events we were
campaigning at.
So I got to go to those and Igot to see all that.
(16:40):
And then also the blackpolitics side, which was
extremely eye-opening, becausemy entire identity as a black
fella had mainly been throughthe prism of being Gunajumara
and Rajri, through my Saundersand Grant families, whereas this
took my thinking completelywide and I also got really great
(17:02):
skills and the campaign itselffor people that don't know it
was flawed and it wasessentially deeply flawed from
the very beginning.
But I didn't know that and but Ididn't know that, the team
didn't know that, and thecampaign was at a point where I
(17:23):
didn't want to be involvedanymore because there was
dealings that I wasn'tcomfortable with within Western
Australia.
So, and my family, I spoke tomy auntie, our matriarch, and
she's like step away, son, it'sbad spirit, you know.
So I did, but I had a taste forit and I got a really good
taste for agency land.
(17:44):
So I got to work out howagencies work and I thought,
okay, well, I want to continueto be an artist and creative,
but I can't live off that.
You know, this is 2012, likethere was.
No, there wasn't a lot ofblackfellas getting commercials.
There's nothing like it is now.
There was no blackfellas inmajor roles outside of Aaron
(18:05):
Pedersen and Deborah Malman Madrespect to both of them but
there wasn't a lot of us in theindustry and there wasn't a lot
of us storytelling, producing,writing, directing, right.
So you couldn't live off that.
So I was like I I need to.
I want to set up a business soI can work for myself and have
some independence and freedom todo auditions and to be in that
(18:28):
world.
But I had no experience runninga business.
I had no idea what I was doing,but I just kind of I put some,
I had some money and I investedit to set up the company.
I ran it for three years andthen I got to the point where I
had not done any planning for afuture within the business
(18:48):
sector.
I couldn't continue.
I dissolved the business andwent back to working full-time
for projects, spent some timewith the ABC in different places
and then I ended up workingwith Luke Pearson with
(19:10):
Indigenous X, and again it wasone of those kind of pivotal
moments in your life where anopportunity through work comes
that changes your wholetrajectory of your life in a
really great way.
Again it was a national.
You know Indigenous Xindependent Indigenous media
company telling amazing storiesthrough the prism of elevating
(19:33):
Black voices.
But I was working underneathLuke as his chief operating
officer and he was the CEO and Iultimately wasn't getting the
say that I wanted over my outputright.
So fast forward to 2024, so ayear ago I decided to start a
(19:58):
company.
I'd stepped away fromIndigenousX for a couple of
years.
I worked on a couple of smallprojects here and there, but I
didn't want to work for somebodyelse.
There was a part of methroughout my entire career
where I felt like I wasgenerating wealth for somebody
else who was not a bad person,but I was essentially giving
(20:21):
away a lot of IP, a lot ofcultural knowledge and a lot of
yarns that were beingcapitalized on by somebody else.
So I was like I want to haveautonomy over that and I want to
work with black businesses andblackfellas and help elevate the
space in a way that I think isaligned with culturally, where I
(20:42):
stand and how I feel.
So Baraji Maweng was born.
I did some research and I spoketo my mom and I said look,
these are Wiradjuri words.
You're my Wiradjuri ancestor.
These words mean Baraji meansto fly, mawang means together,
and the whole idea of thebusiness is if I work with you
(21:04):
as a business so it's alldigital marketing I want to see
you succeed and myself succeed,and that we can all kind of fly
together in a sense of beingsuccessful while still
maintaining who we are ascultural people, um, which is, I
think, a difficult thing to doin a in a business sense,
(21:26):
because there's yeah, there's itcan be difficult love it.
David (21:30):
Yeah, I love it.
You've got so much experienceright now and, yeah, some people
just know that, hey, I've gotto do something for me Now.
When it first started anysupport there?
How did you first hear aboutIBA?
James (21:57):
Yeah, I'd known of IBA for a long time.
I had aspirations to own my ownhome.
I'd been homeless a couple oftimes in my life and through IBA
I was actually able to get ahome loan, which is I bought a
little one bedroom apartment inSouth Sydney, in little
Alexandria.
I knew that there was businesssupport.
I knew there was a businesspart of IBA, but I didn't quite
(22:18):
go into that until I had set upmy business.
I was kind of like I set up thecompany.
I saw IBA at a few events and Ispoke to some of their staff
who were really great withknowledge.
They said these are the supportmechanisms that are available
to you.
As an Indigenous business owner,I kind of formed a relationship
with IBA and you know mybusiness with with the digital
(22:42):
marketing because of myexperience and my skills.
I have an offering where I canoffer businesses, particularly
small businesses, particularlysmall black businesses, the
opportunity to learn digitalmarketing and I think that a lot
of business owners have tobecome kind of marketers
themselves.
(23:02):
To run a business to besuccessful, You've got to know
how digital marketing worksright.
So IBA have been able to matchme with businesses that are
working with them that need thatkind of training and support,
which is really great.
It's really good.
It's helped me network, it'shelped me build relationships
within the Indigenous businesssector and IBA, I think
(23:26):
nationally have been reallygreat to deal with.
David (23:28):
Once you sort of got that support, was there any time you
had to follow up?
And how was that support afterthat when you reached out?
Was there any sort offollow-ups?
James (23:40):
reached out?
Was there any sort offollow-ups?
Yeah, yeah, they've been great.
So I've had opportunities toreceive support.
So they kind of ask you whatyou need as a business owner and
then the person who kind oflike a caseworker, who's working
with you can also give yousuggestions for support you
might need.
And I've got an accountant.
I knew early on that I needed agood accountant.
I think everybody should have agood accountant and but there's
(24:02):
financial projections andforecasting that I I didn't do
when I had my first business, soI need, I needed to do that.
So I be a gave me really greatadvice on how to do that and
they can potentially match mewith a business an indigenous
business that can, sorry, giveme further skills so I can do
better forecasting so I don'tfall in the trap of not having,
(24:25):
you know, in an income to stayafloat.
It's great.
David (24:28):
It's that full business support not just getting started
, it's sustainability, buildinginfrastructure and anyone out
there wanting to start abusiness maybe they've heard of
IBA.
Just some quick advice foryoung entrepreneur, aspiring
business owner, to take thatfirst step.
James (24:46):
Yeah, call IBA, get on the phone, call them, go through
their business support team.
I'm really big on the following, the follow-up.
So, after that firstconversation, ask for an email
address, follow up with an email, really get to know that person
and get to know who'ssupporting you, because if you
build that relationship, it'sonly going to be beneficial for
(25:07):
you in the future.
David (25:08):
The art of the follow up Yep.
Now let's talk about some ofthe milestones for the business.
James (25:14):
Yeah, I think the first milestone was kind of getting
the brand right, the look andfeel.
I think branding is reallyimportant for not only the
visual identity, but I wanted tobe really proud of when I hand
someone a business card or whenI refer someone to my website.
(25:35):
I wanted to be really proud ofthat.
So nailing the brand for me wasthe first milestone and I kind
of spent a lot of time on that.
I spent six months before I putanything out in the market
because I wanted to make surethat I was happy with it and
everything was self-funded.
So I started this businesscompletely self-funded.
(25:58):
So I negotiated with a graphicdesigner I had a relationship
with to allow me to pay off overtime the work, and I wanted
them to pay full rates.
I was like I'm going to pay youwhat you're worth.
I just can't pay it all upfront.
And they were like no, I trustyou, we can do this.
And I think my first websiteit's now in its second iteration
(26:22):
, but the first one I paid formyself as well.
There are support mechanisms outthere to support people who
don't have that.
I'm quite lucky and privilegedin that position to do that.
But yeah, that was the firstkind of big milestone.
I'm still early days, you know,it's only just over a year old,
(26:44):
but I've got clients I'veworked with that I really I
really like and I really likeengaging with and, like you know
, hearing about their work andtheir updates.
Even though we may not beworking together anymore in the
financial sense I also I want tomaintain that relationship with
people, just because I do wantto see people succeed and
businesses do well, particularlysmall businesses you said
(27:05):
something earlier about um.
David (27:07):
You know wanting to start your own business and you said
it's important about how youfeel when you got that first
logo.
Made the revisions boom.
There it is exported brandingmaterials.
How did that make you feel?
James (27:23):
yeah, that, um, I felt quite proud, to be honest, quite
proud to you know, starting abusiness as you're.
Essentially, like any creativeproject as well, you're birthing
something into reality, right,and it starts from your
imagination or your mind.
So when it kind of came out andI got a kind of brand identity
(27:47):
document and I worked with thedesigner to really kind of nail
that, I was really proud, yeah,I was pretty happy with that.
David (27:56):
What's the hardest part about business?
James (28:01):
I think, being self-motivated.
I think, you know, I could sithere and say you know, every day
is a great day and I'mmotivated and I get up at 5 am
and I go to the gym and I, youknow, walk the dog and have my
coffee and I have a full day.
But it's not realistic, right?
The human experience is variedand multifaceted and some days
(28:24):
and some weeks you're not asproductive and you're not as
motivated and other things comeup family, other projects,
relationships, life.
I think that's the hardestthing is re-motivating yourself
and getting yourself back into.
You know, I work from home, soI have a home office set up.
(28:47):
It's like a corner of myapartment is my office, and I
motivate myself not to sit inthe lounge and watch Netflix all
day because it's so easy to dothat, right, yeah?
Or sit on TikTok, justscrolling TikTok all day.
David (29:01):
It's really easy to do that.
James (29:03):
And.
David (29:03):
Netflix is research for, as you're an actor, of course,
totally.
It's all research.
Accountant, if you're watchingmovie, tickets are a business
expense Totally, totally.
And how important is it for mobto take care of their emotional
, spiritual and mental health?
James (29:19):
Oh, I think that's.
I think it's really important.
I think it's important forevery person to do that,
regardless of race.
But I think, as mob, with thekind of historical things that
have happened to us and theoppression and removal and
disruption of cultural practicesand disruption of connection to
(29:44):
land, I think it's reallyimportant to prioritize that and
to also not get caught in thetrap of and this is very much
speaking from a city, urbanperspective not get caught in
the trap of being in the cityand spending your spare time,
(30:05):
you know, engaging in activitythat doesn't feed your soul, you
know, and not getting back tocountry, not getting back to
land and not engaging with yourfamily outside of a project.
You know, I think it's so, soeasy, particularly in a city
like sydney, you can just get soconsumed by the bright lights
(30:26):
and the events and the constantthings that are happening.
But you've got to sometimesstop and go home and just sit
and just be with family and withland and just reset and kind of
put things into perspective Ithink it's really important.
David (30:42):
I think you just stole my next question.
I was going to say what doesjames do to remove himself?
Have that time, feed the soul.
So you mentioned family,country.
You, you love your own space.
Anything else that do, anypractices that you can share
with us?
James (31:01):
Yeah, look, I don't get home to Western Victoria as much
as I should and I don't go toCentral New South Wales as much
as I should.
Time and money is a factor.
So where I am, I've been ableto identify that the Blue
Mountains is a place that I findmakes me feel good.
You know, at a very base level,it just makes me feel good.
(31:24):
You know, if I spend time inthe Blue Mountains, even if it's
a day trip, or I go for a night, or I go camping or I go
walking, I just feel better withthe air up there.
So I go to that place, uh, whenI can, and if I can't get there
, if I'm time poor, I'll go tokame base around botany bay and
(31:46):
I'll spend time.
You know, I may take my dog andjust go sit on the rocks
looking at the sun set over thewater, just so I get out of my
head and away from the screenlove it.
David (31:57):
It's so simple sometimes, hey, but like you said, you
just get caught in the rat race,in the bubble, in the deadlines
and the trap that it can getyou in.
Now you've got your businessgoing.
You're an artist, always havebeen actor athlete.
You're an artist, always havebeen actor athlete, very
(32:19):
talented man.
Now you're delving into sort ofproducing filmmaking.
Do you want to share as much asyou can about that process and
sort of some things that you'vegot going?
James (32:34):
I've kind of back over 10 years ago now, I had a friend
who was a film director inSydney, who was a he was a
Queensland fella, but he endedup in Sydney chasing the dream
of, you know, bright lights andHollywood signs.
And he, we.
(32:54):
One day we were drinking wineand yawning and he said if you,
you could make a film clip foran artist, like a music video
clip, who would you pick?
And I said, oh, I'd love to doone for Jess Malboy, just like
you know, just straight out tosaid love Jess, love her energy,
think she's great.
Literally two, three weekslater, no joke, he called me and
(33:16):
said I just met Jess's makeupartist.
She's going to get me a meetingwith Sony to pitch to do a
music video clip for Jess.
Would you be keen to work onthe project?
And I was like, yes, totallywould love that, of course.
So he pitched, I helped himwith the pitch.
We did an amazing pitch.
(33:37):
We ended up getting the job.
We filmed a clip with Jess inDarwin with her family, and then
around Darwin with Shake Her UpGreat song, awesome experience.
I got a producer's credit forthat, which was great.
(33:59):
That was quite a long time agoand I dabbled in projects here
and there and then about threeyears ago in Sydney there's a
place called the Judith NielsenInstitute for Journalism and
Ideas.
I got a scholarship through JNIas a kind of journalist in
residence and I was kind oflooking at content creation and
(34:24):
the kind of growing kind ofstorytelling that's happening
through short form and throughsocial media apps and how, with
the Blackfella lens, howBlackfellas can disrupt
traditional media stereotypesand narratives.
(34:45):
Through that process I met thisamazing filmmaker called Yara.
Yara at the time had just had afilm gone on the festival
circuit which was aboutsurveillance.
It was called Unseen Skies.
It was an incredible film thatI got to watch.
It was a documentary featureabout what's happening in the
skies above us with satellitesand surveillance on the ground.
(35:06):
And Yara came to me and saidlook, I've got this project that
I'm keen to do.
And at the time the project waslooking at legacy mines and the
scarred landscapes and whathappens when mines are
rehabilitated or not.
And at the time she had foursubjects she was keen to focus
(35:27):
on and one of those subjects wasa black fella, was an
indigenous person and she'dasked for me to be involved in
some way.
She's like I want you to beinvolved in the film.
We've met through thisscholarship but we've formed
this kind of professionalrelationship.
The film kind of started toprogress and the story in
development started to kind oftake shape and she started to
(35:50):
identify that this person, thisIndigenous man, had a quite a
compelling story.
This man's name is MaitlandParker.
Maitland is from the Pilbara inWestern Australia.
His country is the KaranginiNational Park.
Maitland had been fighting toget the Wittenoom asbestos mine
(36:13):
site cleaned up.
It had been mined and then beenleft almost just like kind of
close it up.
They shut down the town inWittenoom and they closed the
mine and they made an exclusionzone.
And that was that.
And this is at the time whenthere was a native title and we
didn't have any rights.
Maitland had been fighting, sohe'd been in the media fighting
(36:37):
for it to be cleaned up and Yarosaid to me look, I want to, I
want to talk with Maitland.
Are you going to help meBecause I can't find this man?
I made a phone call one phonecall to somebody in Perth, a
black fella.
He called someone else and thenlinked me up with that person
(37:01):
and I got by the end of the day.
I had Maitland's number forYara Blackfella Ways, blackfella
, great point.
Exactly, you know I'm end ofthe day.
I had Maitland's number forYara, blackfella Ways,
blackfella, grapevine Exactly,you know I'm not from Western
Australia, just for the caveat.
I've done projects over there.
You know little projects hereand there, but I'm not part of
that whole network and thatwhole country, you know.
But yeah, yara was like I thinkI want you to come on the film,
(37:23):
either as a producer or aco-producer in some capacity.
While recognising that, I saidto her you need WA mob
involvement, even if it'sMaitland and his family, because
this is their yarn.
So she was really great and Itrusted Yara to do the story.
I've been and I can say thisquite honestly because I've
spoken to Yara about this I'vebeen critical of non-Indigenous
(37:46):
people telling our stories,particularly when it comes to
documentary.
The history of documentary isshaped by the filmmaker
documenting a subject orsubjects, but there was always
an editorial that sat far fromthe subject.
They didn't have any editorialsay over the outcome.
(38:09):
Yara didn't want to do it thisway and we had really honest
conversations about that, whichI really respected.
She wanted Maitland to becentral to the story and to the
yarn and to be across all points.
So Maitland worked on the film.
So he's credited as a writerand as one of the producers
Incredible and his involvementchanged how this film could have
(38:33):
been done.
His voice was central and it ishis yarn and it is his story
and I think that that process isgoing to hopefully have a
flow-on effect with documentaryfilmmaking not just in Australia
but hopefully globally.
When it comes to subjects,particularly when you have the
(38:54):
subject being someone who isfrom a minority group or from a
group that has been historicallyoppressed, I think it's really
important to enable those voicesto sit as high as they can
within the.
The hierarchical order of of adocumentary agreed and yara has
gone back and forth with thefamily, with maitland, showing
(39:15):
him cuts, showing him thingsspeaking through.
Is this appropriate?
Can we show this?
You know there's it's very muchand it is.
It is a lot more labor.
It's a big process to do that,but Yara's heritage Yara comes
from a Lebanese background, grewup in Western Sydney and she
(39:35):
worked at SBS and she workedwith NITV.
So she has an understanding, Ithink, given her ancestry.
But I think outside of that's agood person and I trusted her
to do the right thing by thisyarn, and so my involvement was,
yeah, kind of I felt, I feltlike okay to be a part of the
(39:57):
project that's so important.
David (39:59):
yeah, I've been asked why do you want to be a producer?
And I said to ensure theauthenticity of the voice from
conception to delivery, Not justtill you say rap, that's a rap.
You're a director, you go home,you're a talent, but in that
edit you can tell the story adifferent way.
They can change the narrative,they can, so you produce it to
(40:20):
ensure authenticity of thatvoice.
So it's great to meet you and Iwant to talk a lot about film,
but let's put it into a three tofive years, the next three to
five years.
What does that look like forJames?
James (40:36):
Wow, I think that I'd like to, in three to five years,
have multiple businesses set up.
In three to five years, havemultiple businesses set up.
I think that I've got a fewideas and projects in the back
of my mind from a businessperspective and I want to see
Baraji Mowing find its spacewithin the digital marketing
(40:59):
landscape that changes quiterapidly, particularly with the
introduction of AI and all ofthat kind of beastie stuff.
I think, creatively andprofessionally.
I want to continue.
I still do auditions and I docommercials and I still like to
flex that muscle and still liketo do that stuff when I can,
(41:22):
which is great.
I did an audition just todayactually, which was cool.
I'm also writing a book that'squite personal and I'm a first
time author.
So, with the caveat that it's abig, big job and it's a
personal story, it's my father'seldest brother's yarn and his
(41:45):
biography.
Captain Reginald Saunders andCaptain Reg, just quickly was
the first Indigenous person inAustralia to be commissioned in
the Australian Army, so he wasofficer commissioned rank before
we had citizens as blackfellas,which was in itself, huge, but
(42:08):
his whole life story is quiteincredible.
I won't give too much awaybecause I want people to buy the
book and read it.
But I would love to see andI've spoken to his family, I've
been in consultation for thebook, I've spoken to his
daughters.
He has four daughters stillalive.
They're my first cousins.
(42:31):
They're all in in their 70s,they're like great-grandmothers
and I'm their first cousin, eventhough I'm not at that age, and
I've spoken to them about thisstory and how I.
I don't own the story.
I have rights as the authorover the book.
But if they want to, if someonewanted to make the book into a
film, I would love to beinvolved in some capacity.
(42:52):
You know, if it was a producer,a co-producer or something, I
would like to be involved to seethat story told more broadly,
more widely, because noteverybody's going to read a book
of 80 to 100,000 words, right,14 chapters.
They're not going to do that.
But I think a film, a featurefilm and that's what I love
about film it has the capacityto transform people.
(43:18):
It can transform a person'sthinking, it can transform and
inspire people, thinking, it cantransform and inspire people
and I think that uncle reggie'sstory is so compelling that I
think it would do a lot of thatas a feature.
So in three to five years time.
I would love to see that cometo life in some way.
Um, yeah, that's kind of whatI'm hoping for.
David (43:44):
That's amazing.
Yeah, feature your first book,multiple businesses, the agency
informing the film, advertising.
It's basically workinghand-in-hand with promotional
efforts and pathway to audience.
Now, what will be?
What can you forecast as thebiggest obstacle, physically or
(44:09):
emotionally, that is going totry and stop you?
James (44:13):
Yeah, I think it's the black dog, I think it's your own
mind, I think it's your ownlimitations and doubts you have
that could get in the way.
That's the only thing I canforesee getting in the way is my
own uh, kind of mental andspiritual health not being great
(44:36):
.
You know, I think, becauseeverything I have to date I
turned 40 this year shout out tothe 80s kids.
It's a um, it's a big kind ofmilestone because you get to you
, you care less, but you alsobecome hyper aware of, uh, the
(44:59):
second half of this experience,the human experience of life,
and it's so easy to loseyourself in that and lose
yourself in the madness andpeople may pass away.
You could lose family, youcould lose friends, you know.
Your health issues start tobecome more, you become more
(45:21):
aware of that kind of stuff andI think the only thing that can
get in the way of these dreams,these aspirations, coming into
reality is my own mind and myown inability to overcome the
reality of my existence.
Yeah, without sounding too,spiritually out there.
David (45:42):
80s baby, I completely resonate with it.
Anyone else that doesn't get it.
That's your issue.
Okay, good, good, good.
Can you share with us maybesomething that has kind of
crippled the mindset at onestage and experience and then
how you overcame that?
James (46:02):
Yeah, yeah, um.
The fear of um, the fear ofrejection and the fear of
failure, I think is I'vestruggled with right and I think
a lot of people struggle withthis like this.
Right, there's so many amazing,creative, talented people who
(46:23):
are sitting in a nine to fivejob, not doing what they want or
passionate about, because offear of failure.
Right, fear of falling flat inyour face, and I've had that
multiple times and my life couldhave taken a very different
path had I put that kind ofcreative part of myself in the
oh you know what, like youshould just stop trying.
Stop.
You know you're trying too hard, mate.
Like just kind of creative partof myself in the oh you know
(46:44):
what, like you should just stoptrying.
Stop, you know you're tryingtoo hard, mate.
Like just kind of just sit backdown.
You know, which is a commonmindset and mentality here in
Australia?
I find it's, you know, thattall poppy syndrome, and we can
actually do it to ourselves.
And to help overcome that and tohelp overcome that, I worked
(47:06):
with someone you would probablycall a life coach, someone who I
respect, and this person, sheenabled me to find ways to
express myself that weren't foranybody else but myself.
So I meditate, I journal when Ican.
(47:29):
It's not every day, I mean, I'dlove to meditate and journal
every day, but sometimes I don'tfeel like it right.
But within that process I wasable to kind of overcome a lot
of the fear of failure andrejection because I was able to
understand that the limitationsthat I place on myself are a
(47:52):
byproduct of experiences I hadgrowing up where I was rejected,
where I did fall on my face,where I did go broke, where I
did become homeless, you know.
And the great thing about allof those things was I was able
to pick myself up and try again.
So failure, through thisprocess of journaling, I
understood that failure was notwho I am.
(48:15):
It was an experience that I mayexperience again, but I have
the opportunities and I have thewill to overcome that.
David (48:26):
Sounds like you've done a lot of work, inner work and
then you realize you think bythe time you're 30, you're going
to have everything sorted.
35, yeah, 40, it's like, hmm, Iactually know nothing and I'm
going to be a student for life.
What would James right now, at40, awesome age, by the way,
(48:50):
just letting you know say to20-year-old James?
You get one piece of advice youcan't say buy Bitcoin one piece
of concise advice that you canshare with him in under 30
seconds.
Whoa, that's a lot.
That is a lot.
That's really hard, that's veryhard.
(49:11):
When I came out, I was likewhoa, that was too much, david.
James (49:15):
I mean, there's a lot that 20-something-year-old James
needed to hear, so it's hard tofit it all in 30 seconds.
I think the big thing that Iwould probably want to tell
myself is slow down Like Irushed through my 20s.
I rushed through my 20sworrying, stressing, striving,
(49:50):
striving, when I think if I hadslowed down, I would have maybe
achieved more but had lived withless anxiety and less stress,
if I just slowed down and caredless.
You know, I talked aboutentering my forties and how much
I just I stopped, I've stoppedcaring, I've stopped.
It's not that I don't care,it's just that the things that I
thought were important don'tmatter and I'm able to slow down
(50:13):
and appreciate and just toactually see the experience that
I'm having.
David (50:18):
That is awesome advice.
James (50:19):
Yeah.
David (50:20):
Because you know how you consume content and you hear
different entrepreneurs andbusiness owners, athletes, talk
about advice.
I can't recall someone justsaying as simple as slow down.
They've said de-stress and walkand exercise and mindfulness
and all that, but to say it inthat manner, slow down is really
.
It's resonated with me.
(50:41):
I guess that's what I'm tryingto say Now.
What I want you to do is justshare a little bit about.
We talked about three to fiveyears, but the next couple of
months, maybe something thatyou've got happening later this
year, you're going to be landingthis amazing audition that you
just did today as well.
We'll be acting in something aswell I'm just throwing that out
(51:04):
there into the energy.
James (51:04):
Yeah what have you?
David (51:05):
got coming up.
Let people know where they canfind you.
James (51:08):
I'm going to finish the manuscript for the book.
It's the first thing I need toget done.
I've got to do one moreinterview with my family, with
my cousins, to complete thatprocess and then go through the
back and forth with thepublisher, the film, which is
(51:28):
called Yoloo Country, that comesout in June and that's going to
do the film festival circuitand then we'll have, hopefully,
its theatrical release next year.
But I'm active on limitedsocial media.
I advise people to use allsocial media accounts, or as
many as they can, to tell theirnarrative.
(51:49):
I am a little bit limited.
I'm a little bit more private.
I have a LinkedIn account.
that is you know, I'm active onthere every few weeks.
My Facebook is pretty muchprivate now.
It's just family and friendsand it's just a way for me to
keep tabs on who's fighting withwho and who's not talking with
who.
David (52:07):
That's it For that army to get back to you.
Yes, yes, they won't answer thecall, but they'll check their
Facebook.
They'll check Facebook.
James (52:16):
They'll always check Facebook, but my Instagram is
private.
I don't post on there regularly.
Private, uh, I don't post onthere regularly.
Um, I had I do have ambition tohave some uh kind of space this
year, some kind of activity, umto talk about things like um
(52:39):
wellness, particularly from amen's what people identify as
men or men kind of a men's orpeople identify as men or men
kind of health and well-beingkind of page.
I've been working on a websitein the background and love that,
just working on what that'sgoing to look like from a
content perspective, whether I Igo down the road of making
content for youtube and tiktok,which is a great way, obviously,
(53:01):
obviously, to build audiences,but that comes with again,
overcoming the failure doubtaspects.
Yeah, that's kind of the yearahead, I think.
Oh, that's great.
David (53:15):
And where can people catch your film?
I think you said June.
James (53:22):
Yeah, so June.
It should be premiering in June.
We can't say where, but yeah,that YOLO country has a website
and social media pages andthey're active Fantastic,
because I'm managing them.
So check those out.
It's a film that's going to bevery important to the nation's
(53:43):
kind of psyche and kind ofconversations yeah I love it and
we'll make sure that we've gotall those links in the
description as well so peoplecan check it out.
They can find your website,they can find the film's website
.
Um, you know anything upcominglike you mentioned in that realm
of supporting people through?
You know creating content andtick tock brother.
(54:04):
Thank you for your time, thankyou for your space.
I appreciate yarning and I'msure we'll chat a lot more
norris, thank you for having me.
I really appreciate the timeabsolutely.
James, welcome to the podcast.
Thank you for having me,brother.
Let's start with your name,full name mob, and a little bit
about your upbringing.
James (00:09):
Yeah, so my name is James Saunders.
My mob are, on my father's side, the Gunditjmara people,
southwest Victoria.
We're from the Gilgah andKilkerra clans of the
Gunditjmara Nation along thesouthwest coast and my mother's
family are Wurundjeri, the WongaWong people from around the
Trangie Central New South Walesregion.
David (00:31):
And you mentioned before.
You grew up in Logan.
James (00:34):
Yeah, I had the privilege to grow up in South Brisbane,
to grow up in Logan in the 90sand early 2000s.
It was a very different placethen but upon reflection I think
I'm quite happy to grow upthere with the influences I had
in my life.
David (00:50):
Let's talk about the childhood.
Let's talk about those first 15years, maybe navigating school
identity, all those things thatpre-social media we had to
navigate, pre-social media wehad to navigate.
James (01:04):
Yeah, so I was actually born in the south coast of New
South Wales in a place calledPambula.
We moved to Queensland when Iwas four years old, so in 1989.
My father and my mother at thetime we had seven children in
the family.
My mother then had her eighthchild, my younger brother, and
(01:28):
then, when mum was pregnant withher ninth child, my father
actually left my mother andmoved back to Gunujumara, back
to southwest Victoria.
Mum chose to stay in Queenslandbecause we kind of set up roots
in south Brisbane.
So she raised us kind of on herown.
So a single parent, ninechildren in a three-bedroom,
cheap rental, uh, you know, uhit was chaotic and interesting
(01:55):
and hard, not gonna lie.
It was tough, um, but she kindof forced us to maintain our
education.
So schooling was reallyimportant.
She kind of didn't want us tobe, you know, hopers, as she
called it, of course, and so sheforced us to really show up and
(02:17):
be present at school.
But we were quite happy to dothat.
I think we were quite socialchildren.
We were really big into sports.
So sports was a really big partof our lives.
So mum really got us involvedin the sporting community around
southeast Queensland.
We did everything from swimming, athletics, soccer, netball,
basketball, volleyball, rugby.
(02:37):
We were a very big sportyfamily and that sport opened
doors and that sport openeddoors.
But my mother, being anAboriginal woman, really wanted
us to maintain connection andculture.
So we had a very big engagementwith the local Murray community
here in South East Queenslandwhich was really good for us.
(02:58):
The Murray community reallywere good to our family and
embracing of us even though weweren't Murray.
Torres Strait Islanders werevery influential in our family
as well.
The Torres Strait IslanderChurch in Woodridge would
deliver us food, were a very bigpart of checking in on us and
making sure we were okay.
So we felt a part of thecommunity.
But mum actually, despite howshe felt towards my father, she
(03:20):
still sent us down to GoondahJamara as young children,
particularly us young boys.
We had a really strongconnection with the family there
and she wanted that.
So we knew who we were andwhere we came from.
So that was quite aninteresting upbringing.
And Southeast Queensland at thetime this is the 90s it was
(03:40):
going through massive changes.
Land rights was a really bigthing.
Marlborough decision in 1993.
Black media here was highlyinfluential.
Yeah, protests, that activistkind of world.
Mum worked in Native Title, sheworked for ATSIC, so we were
very much a part of it all.
Yeah, that's why when I sayliving in Logan, yeah, it was
(04:03):
tough, you saw poverty, you sawdesperation, but there was a lot
of beauty in that as well.
Wow.
David (04:12):
I'm just like blown away.
Like for mum to raise nine kidsjust that alone, let alone
trying to sort of let thechildren become part of the
community and know about cultureand where they're from.
Now, growing up with so manysiblings, was there moments
where it was hard to sort offeel that you were given that
(04:34):
time that you craved for?
Was there things you attachedyourself to very young, maybe
music or sports?
We did delve into sports, butwas there any times that you
started to notice?
Maybe as a teenager you drew orgravitated towards something?
James (04:50):
yeah, so there wasn't a lot of space in the house.
I have five sisters and threebrothers and I crave solitude.
I'm a bit of an introvert and Ilike my own company and I like
peace.
There wasn't a lot of peace inthe house so I was lucky that I
(05:11):
had a push bike and I wouldleave when I had time and I
wasn't at school and I would goriding and I'd spend time alone
in bushland all around the areaswe lived inuncorn and Marsden
and when we worked together assiblings.
My siblings were very creative,very entertaining, and my eldest
(05:32):
brother was particularlyentertaining and he got a video
camera.
I think mum bought a videocamera or got gifted a video
camera and we started to makemovies.
So horror was a big genre inour family.
We liked horror films.
So particularly around the timeof Halloween we'd make horror
(05:53):
films in the garage with thelocal kids and music was a huge
influence for us.
Our family on my father's sidewere quite musically inclined.
My cousin was in the bandtitters um and she's like a
first cousin we all really loveand adored her.
So music was huge.
You know, my sisters wereobsessed with Whitney Houston
(06:16):
and Mariah Carey the big USstars, so we would film, make
video clips, you know, andexpress ourselves just very
organically as a family.
My sisters also did modelingbecause they were quite tall and
attractive.
So yeah, as a family we kind ofwere just there's a sporty
(06:38):
element to us, but there's alsothis kind of creative element
and I kind of juggled thosethrough high school.
I studied drama and film andtelevision and I also played
every sport I possibly could.
So it's kind of alwaysbalancing those two aspects of
myself and I think the familydid that a lot as well.
David (06:58):
So you talked about sports, creativity, basically
artists, music.
I love that wiring.
I can say that that's somethingI resonate with.
Now let's talk about you'veleft school.
Now what was the first thingyou nurtured, and then we'll
talk about how you got into sortof your business.
(07:18):
Was it the sports or thecreativity?
Where did you go after school?
James (07:22):
Yeah.
So I left high school.
I finished year 12 in 2002.
And at the time my mother hadstarted a new relationship with
somebody and my mom and her newpartner decided they were going
to move to Cairns because mystepfather's from up Mossburn
Way.
(07:44):
I didn't really have anywhereto go.
I had been a boarding school.
I went to boarding school forfour years.
I didn't have any skills, Ihadn't worked while at boarding
school.
We weren't allowed to haveemployment outside of boarding
school because we didn't focuson our studies.
I didn't quite do wellacademically so I wasn't
(08:04):
planning to go to university andat that time there wasn't a lot
of opportunities outside of thetraditional routes.
So one of my sisters who was inCanberra at the Australian
Institute of Sport, she paid forme to fly one way to Melbourne
and my father picked me up inMelbourne and drove me four and
a half hours west to Lake CondorAboriginal Mission, where he
(08:27):
grew up.
And I lived on the mission withone of my older brothers out
there who was a caretaker of theMISH and I kind of was
unemployed, with no realdirection or kind of idea of
where I was going to go.
What I was going to do.
I knew I wanted to do things.
(08:47):
I wanted to study performingarts.
I wanted to study actingbecause I'd done drama for four
years at school.
But I didn't know how to dothat.
I didn't know anybody inMelbourne.
I had no money and there wasn'tthe pathways that are around
now for someone like me waysthat are around now for someone
(09:07):
like me.
So I cattle drafted, I didrandom jobs where I could.
I was on the unemploymentbenefit, on Centrelink, living
regionally.
So I hitchhiked around theWestern districts.
You know a lot of my family.
You know we're not they're notwealthy.
We don't come from a wealthyfamily.
You know there's nogenerational wealth.
Even though my grandfather andmy uncles had tried to build
(09:31):
generational wealth, there weresystems in place to stop that
Right.
So I stayed down there for abit.
I played Aussie rules for thefirst time and played footy you
know the Victorian footy whichwas an amazing experience and a
great sport.
That changed the way I viewedthe world of rugby and you know
fields and dimensions.
(09:54):
But I left.
I had to leave and I came backto Queensland and I got a
traineeship and I was kind ofgoing down a route that my
sister had pointed me on.
She said you know, get atraineeship.
And I was kind of going down aroute that my sister had pointed
me on.
She said you know, get atraineeship, get some
qualification behind you, evenif it's just a diploma, and you
might have a career in theQueensland government.
(10:14):
And at that time I needed, Ineeded independence.
You know I needed to.
I rented a studio in well, it'skind of near Paddington in
Brisbane, on my own littlestudio I think I had, like you
know, a tiny single bed and youknow a couple of things on my
(10:36):
clothes really that I boughtfrom Victoria.
And I did this traineeship,which was great, it gave me some
soft skills.
I did this traineeship, whichwas great, it gave me some soft
skills.
But I didn't see my life as apublic servant.
I wanted more and at the timehealth clubs and gyms were
becoming popular in SoutheastQueensland.
(10:57):
So I was training at FitnessFirst in good old Toowong and I
ended up getting a job atToowong Fitness First First just
working the front counter, andthat was really great because it
took my love for kind ofphysical activity and sports,
but it kind of was infused withthis kind of in a world that I
(11:17):
didn't quite.
I didn't quite engage with, youknow I was.
I was dealing with more wealthywhite people, you know.
Know, on a day-to-day basisthere was this like tall black
fella serving them, you know, onthe counter and at this point I
just kind of started todiscover my sexuality and
started to come to terms withthat and who I was as a gay
(11:39):
person.
Yeah, that's kind of the earlycareer kind of, you know, here
in southeast Queensland.
And then I moved to Sydney andSydney was a kind of rude
awakening, I think, because Ithought, I knew, I thought being
(12:02):
in Brisbane you know, people inToowong were wealthy and people
that lived to Hadda house andin Dupilly were wealthy Sydney
kind of slapped me in the facewhere I saw wealth en masse and
I I saw, uh, you know, it waskind of the gateway to the world
.
Really, you know, my whole lifehad been southeast Queensland,
south Brisbane, right.
So then I went to Sydney and itwas like this kind of awakening
(12:27):
and I kind of wanted to be apart of all of it, you know how
world would have opened up yeahyeah and it did and it it came
with opportunities, but it alsocame with hard lessons and I
think a big city like sydneyparticularly for mob that don't
grow up there it can be likethat and there's some of those
lessons can actually be quitedifficult to navigate if you're
(12:51):
not aware of what's going on.
You know underneath it all, ofcourse.
David (12:56):
A lot of history down there, history everywhere, but
Sydney especially.
James (13:01):
Yeah, with mob Yep, a lot of history, a lot of activism,
a lot of politics, localpolitics, and then also Sydney
as a city.
Yeah, it has its beauty andglamour and wealth and
opportunity, but also has itsdark side.
You know, there's the partying,there's the exploitation,
(13:22):
there's the fast-paced kind ofdog-eat-dog mentality hate
crimes yeah, all sorts of stuffyep, yep, very quickly I'll get
to the question.
David (13:34):
I was a trainer at intrapilly fitness first.
Used to train at to wong aroundthat same time.
Anyway, we can talk about thatlater, okay, wow yeah, there you
go there you go.
You've discovered who you areas a person, just your place.
This new world has opened up.
Now let's share insight intoyour business now and that step
(13:57):
into okay, I'm gonna start thisbusiness and let's talk about
your business and let everyoneknow what it is yeah, I will
start by saying this is not thefirst business that I run.
James (14:09):
It's actually my second.
The first business I startedwas back in 2013.
So to get to that point, I'lltell you on about that point.
To get to this point, I wasworking in Sydney.
I was still working withFitness first, but I'd gone to
kind of part-time and I wasworking at the AIDS Council in
(14:31):
New South Wales, which is kindof a big health organization
that helps people who are LGBTQand other you know,
drug-injecting users as well.
So it was like health programs,you know, for people in New
South Wales and I worked in theAboriginal and Torres Strait
Islander unit and I had no ideaI was studying part-time musical
theatre and I was working atFitness First and at ACON and at
(14:55):
that time I didn't have anyquals.
I was trying to get thiscertificate this, you know,
certificate for musical theatre,because I was still pursuing
becoming an actor.
It was still a thing that Iwanted to do and this
opportunity came up.
Someone said there's a campaignthat's been started, being run
(15:15):
by this person called AndrewTwiggy Forest, and I had no idea
at the time who that person was.
I thought Twiggy Forest was,you know a Twiggy Forest in the
bush.
You know, it turns out he was amining magnate.
He was funding a huge projectand they approached me for a
(15:36):
low-level position as a mediaofficer.
I had no media skills.
I'd used social media.
This was the time social mediawas becoming a thing.
So this is 2010,.
Right, facebook had been aroundfor a couple of years.
Twitter was becoming big,instagram was being born.
I had used them and I knewabout them, but I had never
managed an account before.
(15:57):
But through ACON and throughhealth promotion, I got to
understand a little bit aboutthe early days of kind of social
media moderation and the space.
I'm completely unaware of how,but I ended up getting the job
and I ended up being kind ofthrust into the middle of black
(16:18):
politics in Australia nationallyand I was thrown into.
I flew around the country.
You know we basically funded,we sponsored Gama Festival,
darwin Festival, sydney Festival, all these big events we were
campaigning at.
So I got to go to those and Igot to see all that.
(16:40):
And then also the blackpolitics side, which was
extremely eye-opening, becausemy entire identity as a black
fella had mainly been throughthe prism of being Gunajumara
and Rajri, through my Saundersand Grant families, whereas this
took my thinking completelywide and I also got really great
(17:02):
skills and the campaign itselffor people that don't know it
was flawed and it wasessentially deeply flawed from
the very beginning.
But I didn't know that and but Ididn't know that, the team
didn't know that, and thecampaign was at a point where I
(17:23):
didn't want to be involvedanymore because there was
dealings that I wasn'tcomfortable with within Western
Australia.
So, and my family, I spoke tomy auntie, our matriarch, and
she's like step away, son, it'sbad spirit, you know.
So I did, but I had a taste forit and I got a really good
taste for agency land.
(17:44):
So I got to work out howagencies work and I thought,
okay, well, I want to continueto be an artist and creative,
but I can't live off that.
You know, this is 2012, likethere was.
No, there wasn't a lot ofblackfellas getting commercials.
There's nothing like it is now.
There was no blackfellas inmajor roles outside of Aaron
(18:05):
Pedersen and Deborah Malman Madrespect to both of them but
there wasn't a lot of us in theindustry and there wasn't a lot
of us storytelling, producing,writing, directing, right.
So you couldn't live off that.
So I was like I I need to.
I want to set up a business soI can work for myself and have
some independence and freedom todo auditions and to be in that
(18:28):
world.
But I had no experience runninga business.
I had no idea what I was doing,but I just kind of I put some,
I had some money and I investedit to set up the company.
I ran it for three years andthen I got to the point where I
had not done any planning for afuture within the business
(18:48):
sector.
I couldn't continue.
I dissolved the business andwent back to working full-time
for projects, spent some timewith the ABC in different places
and then I ended up workingwith Luke Pearson with
(19:10):
Indigenous X, and again it wasone of those kind of pivotal
moments in your life where anopportunity through work comes
that changes your wholetrajectory of your life in a
really great way.
Again it was a national.
You know Indigenous Xindependent Indigenous media
company telling amazing storiesthrough the prism of elevating
(19:33):
Black voices.
But I was working underneathLuke as his chief operating
officer and he was the CEO and Iultimately wasn't getting the
say that I wanted over my outputright.
So fast forward to 2024, so ayear ago I decided to start a
(19:58):
company.
I'd stepped away fromIndigenousX for a couple of
years.
I worked on a couple of smallprojects here and there, but I
didn't want to work for somebodyelse.
There was a part of methroughout my entire career
where I felt like I wasgenerating wealth for somebody
else who was not a bad person,but I was essentially giving
(20:21):
away a lot of IP, a lot ofcultural knowledge and a lot of
yarns that were beingcapitalized on by somebody else.
So I was like I want to haveautonomy over that and I want to
work with black businesses andblackfellas and help elevate the
space in a way that I think isaligned with culturally, where I
(20:42):
stand and how I feel.
So Baraji Maweng was born.
I did some research and I spoketo my mom and I said look,
these are Wiradjuri words.
You're my Wiradjuri ancestor.
These words mean Baraji meansto fly, mawang means together,
and the whole idea of thebusiness is if I work with you
(21:04):
as a business so it's alldigital marketing I want to see
you succeed and myself succeed,and that we can all kind of fly
together in a sense of beingsuccessful while still
maintaining who we are ascultural people, um, which is, I
think, a difficult thing to doin a in a business sense,
(21:26):
because there's yeah, there's itcan be difficult love it.
David (21:30):
Yeah, I love it.
You've got so much experienceright now and, yeah, some people
just know that, hey, I've gotto do something for me Now.
When it first started anysupport there?
How did you first hear aboutIBA?
James (21:57):
Yeah, I'd known of IBA for a long time.
I had aspirations to own my ownhome.
I'd been homeless a couple oftimes in my life and through IBA
I was actually able to get ahome loan, which is I bought a
little one bedroom apartment inSouth Sydney, in little
Alexandria.
I knew that there was businesssupport.
I knew there was a businesspart of IBA, but I didn't quite
(22:18):
go into that until I had set upmy business.
I was kind of like I set up thecompany.
I saw IBA at a few events and Ispoke to some of their staff
who were really great withknowledge.
They said these are the supportmechanisms that are available
to you.
As an Indigenous business owner,I kind of formed a relationship
with IBA and you know mybusiness with with the digital
(22:42):
marketing because of myexperience and my skills.
I have an offering where I canoffer businesses, particularly
small businesses, particularlysmall black businesses, the
opportunity to learn digitalmarketing and I think that a lot
of business owners have tobecome kind of marketers
themselves.
(23:02):
To run a business to besuccessful, You've got to know
how digital marketing worksright.
So IBA have been able to matchme with businesses that are
working with them that need thatkind of training and support,
which is really great.
It's really good.
It's helped me network, it'shelped me build relationships
within the Indigenous businesssector and IBA, I think
(23:26):
nationally have been reallygreat to deal with.
David (23:28):
Once you sort of got that support, was there any time you
had to follow up?
And how was that support afterthat when you reached out?
Was there any sort offollow-ups?
James (23:40):
reached out?
Was there any sort offollow-ups?
Yeah, yeah, they've been great.
So I've had opportunities toreceive support.
So they kind of ask you whatyou need as a business owner and
then the person who kind oflike a caseworker, who's working
with you can also give yousuggestions for support you
might need.
And I've got an accountant.
I knew early on that I needed agood accountant.
I think everybody should have agood accountant and but there's
(24:02):
financial projections andforecasting that I I didn't do
when I had my first business, soI need, I needed to do that.
So I be a gave me really greatadvice on how to do that and
they can potentially match mewith a business an indigenous
business that can, sorry, giveme further skills so I can do
better forecasting so I don'tfall in the trap of not having,
(24:25):
you know, in an income to stayafloat.
It's great.
David (24:28):
It's that full business support not just getting started
, it's sustainability, buildinginfrastructure and anyone out
there wanting to start abusiness maybe they've heard of
IBA.
Just some quick advice foryoung entrepreneur, aspiring
business owner, to take thatfirst step.
James (24:46):
Yeah, call IBA, get on the phone, call them, go through
their business support team.
I'm really big on the following, the follow-up.
So, after that firstconversation, ask for an email
address, follow up with an email, really get to know that person
and get to know who'ssupporting you, because if you
build that relationship, it'sonly going to be beneficial for
(25:07):
you in the future.
David (25:08):
The art of the follow up Yep.
Now let's talk about some ofthe milestones for the business.
James (25:14):
Yeah, I think the first milestone was kind of getting
the brand right, the look andfeel.
I think branding is reallyimportant for not only the
visual identity, but I wanted tobe really proud of when I hand
someone a business card or whenI refer someone to my website.
(25:35):
I wanted to be really proud ofthat.
So nailing the brand for me wasthe first milestone and I kind
of spent a lot of time on that.
I spent six months before I putanything out in the market
because I wanted to make surethat I was happy with it and
everything was self-funded.
So I started this businesscompletely self-funded.
(25:58):
So I negotiated with a graphicdesigner I had a relationship
with to allow me to pay off overtime the work, and I wanted
them to pay full rates.
I was like I'm going to pay youwhat you're worth.
I just can't pay it all upfront.
And they were like no, I trustyou, we can do this.
And I think my first websiteit's now in its second iteration
(26:22):
, but the first one I paid formyself as well.
There are support mechanisms outthere to support people who
don't have that.
I'm quite lucky and privilegedin that position to do that.
But yeah, that was the firstkind of big milestone.
I'm still early days, you know,it's only just over a year old,
(26:44):
but I've got clients I'veworked with that I really I
really like and I really likeengaging with and, like you know
, hearing about their work andtheir updates.
Even though we may not beworking together anymore in the
financial sense I also I want tomaintain that relationship with
people, just because I do wantto see people succeed and
businesses do well, particularlysmall businesses you said
(27:05):
something earlier about um.
David (27:07):
You know wanting to start your own business and you said
it's important about how youfeel when you got that first
logo.
Made the revisions boom.
There it is exported brandingmaterials.
How did that make you feel?
James (27:23):
yeah, that, um, I felt quite proud, to be honest, quite
proud to you know, starting abusiness as you're.
Essentially, like any creativeproject as well, you're birthing
something into reality, right,and it starts from your
imagination or your mind.
So when it kind of came out andI got a kind of brand identity
(27:47):
document and I worked with thedesigner to really kind of nail
that, I was really proud, yeah,I was pretty happy with that.
David (27:56):
What's the hardest part about business?
James (28:01):
I think, being self-motivated.
I think, you know, I could sithere and say you know, every day
is a great day and I'mmotivated and I get up at 5 am
and I go to the gym and I, youknow, walk the dog and have my
coffee and I have a full day.
But it's not realistic, right?
The human experience is variedand multifaceted and some days
(28:24):
and some weeks you're not asproductive and you're not as
motivated and other things comeup family, other projects,
relationships, life.
I think that's the hardestthing is re-motivating yourself
and getting yourself back into.
You know, I work from home, soI have a home office set up.
(28:47):
It's like a corner of myapartment is my office, and I
motivate myself not to sit inthe lounge and watch Netflix all
day because it's so easy to dothat, right, yeah?
Or sit on TikTok, justscrolling TikTok all day.
David (29:01):
It's really easy to do that.
James (29:03):
And.
David (29:03):
Netflix is research for, as you're an actor, of course,
totally.
It's all research.
Accountant, if you're watchingmovie, tickets are a business
expense Totally, totally.
And how important is it for mobto take care of their emotional
, spiritual and mental health?
James (29:19):
Oh, I think that's.
I think it's really important.
I think it's important forevery person to do that,
regardless of race.
But I think, as mob, with thekind of historical things that
have happened to us and theoppression and removal and
disruption of cultural practicesand disruption of connection to
(29:44):
land, I think it's reallyimportant to prioritize that and
to also not get caught in thetrap of and this is very much
speaking from a city, urbanperspective not get caught in
the trap of being in the cityand spending your spare time,
(30:05):
you know, engaging in activitythat doesn't feed your soul, you
know, and not getting back tocountry, not getting back to
land and not engaging with yourfamily outside of a project.
You know, I think it's so, soeasy, particularly in a city
like sydney, you can just get soconsumed by the bright lights
(30:26):
and the events and the constantthings that are happening.
But you've got to sometimesstop and go home and just sit
and just be with family and withland and just reset and kind of
put things into perspective Ithink it's really important.
David (30:42):
I think you just stole my next question.
I was going to say what doesjames do to remove himself?
Have that time, feed the soul.
So you mentioned family,country.
You, you love your own space.
Anything else that do, anypractices that you can share
with us?
James (31:01):
Yeah, look, I don't get home to Western Victoria as much
as I should and I don't go toCentral New South Wales as much
as I should.
Time and money is a factor.
So where I am, I've been ableto identify that the Blue
Mountains is a place that I findmakes me feel good.
You know, at a very base level,it just makes me feel good.
(31:24):
You know, if I spend time inthe Blue Mountains, even if it's
a day trip, or I go for a night, or I go camping or I go
walking, I just feel better withthe air up there.
So I go to that place, uh, whenI can, and if I can't get there
, if I'm time poor, I'll go tokame base around botany bay and
(31:46):
I'll spend time.
You know, I may take my dog andjust go sit on the rocks
looking at the sun set over thewater, just so I get out of my
head and away from the screenlove it.
David (31:57):
It's so simple sometimes, hey, but like you said, you
just get caught in the rat race,in the bubble, in the deadlines
and the trap that it can getyou in.
Now you've got your businessgoing.
You're an artist, always havebeen actor athlete.
You're an artist, always havebeen actor athlete, very
(32:19):
talented man.
Now you're delving into sort ofproducing filmmaking.
Do you want to share as much asyou can about that process and
sort of some things that you'vegot going?
James (32:34):
I've kind of back over 10 years ago now, I had a friend
who was a film director inSydney, who was a he was a
Queensland fella, but he endedup in Sydney chasing the dream
of, you know, bright lights andHollywood signs.
And he, we.
(32:54):
One day we were drinking wineand yawning and he said if you,
you could make a film clip foran artist, like a music video
clip, who would you pick?
And I said, oh, I'd love to doone for Jess Malboy, just like
you know, just straight out tosaid love Jess, love her energy,
think she's great.
Literally two, three weekslater, no joke, he called me and
(33:16):
said I just met Jess's makeupartist.
She's going to get me a meetingwith Sony to pitch to do a
music video clip for Jess.
Would you be keen to work onthe project?
And I was like, yes, totallywould love that, of course.
So he pitched, I helped himwith the pitch.
We did an amazing pitch.
(33:37):
We ended up getting the job.
We filmed a clip with Jess inDarwin with her family, and then
around Darwin with Shake Her UpGreat song, awesome experience.
I got a producer's credit forthat, which was great.
(33:59):
That was quite a long time agoand I dabbled in projects here
and there and then about threeyears ago in Sydney there's a
place called the Judith NielsenInstitute for Journalism and
Ideas.
I got a scholarship through JNIas a kind of journalist in
residence and I was kind oflooking at content creation and
(34:24):
the kind of growing kind ofstorytelling that's happening
through short form and throughsocial media apps and how, with
the Blackfella lens, howBlackfellas can disrupt
traditional media stereotypesand narratives.
(34:45):
Through that process I met thisamazing filmmaker called Yara.
Yara at the time had just had afilm gone on the festival
circuit which was aboutsurveillance.
It was called Unseen Skies.
It was an incredible film thatI got to watch.
It was a documentary featureabout what's happening in the
skies above us with satellitesand surveillance on the ground.
(35:06):
And Yara came to me and saidlook, I've got this project that
I'm keen to do.
And at the time the project waslooking at legacy mines and the
scarred landscapes and whathappens when mines are
rehabilitated or not.
And at the time she had foursubjects she was keen to focus
(35:27):
on and one of those subjects wasa black fella, was an
indigenous person and she'dasked for me to be involved in
some way.
She's like I want you to beinvolved in the film.
We've met through thisscholarship but we've formed
this kind of professionalrelationship.
The film kind of started toprogress and the story in
development started to kind oftake shape and she started to
(35:50):
identify that this person, thisIndigenous man, had a quite a
compelling story.
This man's name is MaitlandParker.
Maitland is from the Pilbara inWestern Australia.
His country is the KaranginiNational Park.
Maitland had been fighting toget the Wittenoom asbestos mine
(36:13):
site cleaned up.
It had been mined and then beenleft almost just like kind of
close it up.
They shut down the town inWittenoom and they closed the
mine and they made an exclusionzone.
And that was that.
And this is at the time whenthere was a native title and we
didn't have any rights.
Maitland had been fighting, sohe'd been in the media fighting
(36:37):
for it to be cleaned up and Yarosaid to me look, I want to, I
want to talk with Maitland.
Are you going to help meBecause I can't find this man?
I made a phone call one phonecall to somebody in Perth, a
black fella.
He called someone else and thenlinked me up with that person
(37:01):
and I got by the end of the day.
I had Maitland's number forYara Blackfella Ways, blackfella
, great point.
Exactly, you know I'm end ofthe day.
I had Maitland's number forYara, blackfella Ways,
blackfella, grapevine Exactly,you know I'm not from Western
Australia, just for the caveat.
I've done projects over there.
You know little projects hereand there, but I'm not part of
that whole network and thatwhole country, you know.
But yeah, yara was like I thinkI want you to come on the film,
(37:23):
either as a producer or aco-producer in some capacity.
While recognising that, I saidto her you need WA mob
involvement, even if it'sMaitland and his family, because
this is their yarn.
So she was really great and Itrusted Yara to do the story.
I've been and I can say thisquite honestly because I've
spoken to Yara about this I'vebeen critical of non-Indigenous
(37:46):
people telling our stories,particularly when it comes to
documentary.
The history of documentary isshaped by the filmmaker
documenting a subject orsubjects, but there was always
an editorial that sat far fromthe subject.
They didn't have any editorialsay over the outcome.
(38:09):
Yara didn't want to do it thisway and we had really honest
conversations about that, whichI really respected.
She wanted Maitland to becentral to the story and to the
yarn and to be across all points.
So Maitland worked on the film.
So he's credited as a writerand as one of the producers
Incredible and his involvementchanged how this film could have
(38:33):
been done.
His voice was central and it ishis yarn and it is his story
and I think that that process isgoing to hopefully have a
flow-on effect with documentaryfilmmaking not just in Australia
but hopefully globally.
When it comes to subjects,particularly when you have the
(38:54):
subject being someone who isfrom a minority group or from a
group that has been historicallyoppressed, I think it's really
important to enable those voicesto sit as high as they can
within the.
The hierarchical order of of adocumentary agreed and yara has
gone back and forth with thefamily, with maitland, showing
(39:15):
him cuts, showing him thingsspeaking through.
Is this appropriate?
Can we show this?
You know there's it's very muchand it is.
It is a lot more labor.
It's a big process to do that,but Yara's heritage Yara comes
from a Lebanese background, grewup in Western Sydney and she
(39:35):
worked at SBS and she workedwith NITV.
So she has an understanding, Ithink, given her ancestry.
But I think outside of that's agood person and I trusted her
to do the right thing by thisyarn, and so my involvement was,
yeah, kind of I felt, I feltlike okay to be a part of the
(39:57):
project that's so important.
David (39:59):
yeah, I've been asked why do you want to be a producer?
And I said to ensure theauthenticity of the voice from
conception to delivery, Not justtill you say rap, that's a rap.
You're a director, you go home,you're a talent, but in that
edit you can tell the story adifferent way.
They can change the narrative,they can, so you produce it to
(40:20):
ensure authenticity of thatvoice.
So it's great to meet you and Iwant to talk a lot about film,
but let's put it into a three tofive years, the next three to
five years.
What does that look like forJames?
James (40:36):
Wow, I think that I'd like to, in three to five years,
have multiple businesses set up.
In three to five years, havemultiple businesses set up.
I think that I've got a fewideas and projects in the back
of my mind from a businessperspective and I want to see
Baraji Mowing find its spacewithin the digital marketing
(40:59):
landscape that changes quiterapidly, particularly with the
introduction of AI and all ofthat kind of beastie stuff.
I think, creatively andprofessionally.
I want to continue.
I still do auditions and I docommercials and I still like to
flex that muscle and still liketo do that stuff when I can,
(41:22):
which is great.
I did an audition just todayactually, which was cool.
I'm also writing a book that'squite personal and I'm a first
time author.
So, with the caveat that it's abig, big job and it's a
personal story, it's my father'seldest brother's yarn and his
(41:45):
biography.
Captain Reginald Saunders andCaptain Reg, just quickly was
the first Indigenous person inAustralia to be commissioned in
the Australian Army, so he wasofficer commissioned rank before
we had citizens as blackfellas,which was in itself, huge, but
(42:08):
his whole life story is quiteincredible.
I won't give too much awaybecause I want people to buy the
book and read it.
But I would love to see andI've spoken to his family, I've
been in consultation for thebook, I've spoken to his
daughters.
He has four daughters stillalive.
They're my first cousins.
(42:31):
They're all in in their 70s,they're like great-grandmothers
and I'm their first cousin, eventhough I'm not at that age, and
I've spoken to them about thisstory and how I.
I don't own the story.
I have rights as the authorover the book.
But if they want to, if someonewanted to make the book into a
film, I would love to beinvolved in some capacity.
(42:52):
You know, if it was a producer,a co-producer or something, I
would like to be involved to seethat story told more broadly,
more widely, because noteverybody's going to read a book
of 80 to 100,000 words, right,14 chapters.
They're not going to do that.
But I think a film, a featurefilm and that's what I love
about film it has the capacityto transform people.
(43:18):
It can transform a person'sthinking, it can transform and
inspire people, thinking, it cantransform and inspire people
and I think that uncle reggie'sstory is so compelling that I
think it would do a lot of thatas a feature.
So in three to five years time.
I would love to see that cometo life in some way.
Um, yeah, that's kind of whatI'm hoping for.
David (43:44):
That's amazing.
Yeah, feature your first book,multiple businesses, the agency
informing the film, advertising.
It's basically workinghand-in-hand with promotional
efforts and pathway to audience.
Now, what will be?
What can you forecast as thebiggest obstacle, physically or
(44:09):
emotionally, that is going totry and stop you?
James (44:13):
Yeah, I think it's the black dog, I think it's your own
mind, I think it's your ownlimitations and doubts you have
that could get in the way.
That's the only thing I canforesee getting in the way is my
own uh, kind of mental andspiritual health not being great
(44:36):
.
You know, I think, becauseeverything I have to date I
turned 40 this year shout out tothe 80s kids.
It's a um, it's a big kind ofmilestone because you get to you
, you care less, but you alsobecome hyper aware of, uh, the
(44:59):
second half of this experience,the human experience of life,
and it's so easy to loseyourself in that and lose
yourself in the madness andpeople may pass away.
You could lose family, youcould lose friends, you know.
Your health issues start tobecome more, you become more
(45:21):
aware of that kind of stuff andI think the only thing that can
get in the way of these dreams,these aspirations, coming into
reality is my own mind and myown inability to overcome the
reality of my existence.
Yeah, without sounding too,spiritually out there.
David (45:42):
80s baby, I completely resonate with it.
Anyone else that doesn't get it.
That's your issue.
Okay, good, good, good.
Can you share with us maybesomething that has kind of
crippled the mindset at onestage and experience and then
how you overcame that?
James (46:02):
Yeah, yeah, um.
The fear of um, the fear ofrejection and the fear of
failure, I think is I'vestruggled with right and I think
a lot of people struggle withthis like this.
Right, there's so many amazing,creative, talented people who
(46:23):
are sitting in a nine to fivejob, not doing what they want or
passionate about, because offear of failure.
Right, fear of falling flat inyour face, and I've had that
multiple times and my life couldhave taken a very different
path had I put that kind ofcreative part of myself in the
oh you know what, like youshould just stop trying.
Stop.
You know you're trying too hard, mate.
Like just kind of creative partof myself in the oh you know
(46:44):
what, like you should just stoptrying.
Stop, you know you're tryingtoo hard, mate.
Like just kind of just sit backdown.
You know, which is a commonmindset and mentality here in
Australia?
I find it's, you know, thattall poppy syndrome, and we can
actually do it to ourselves.
And to help overcome that and tohelp overcome that, I worked
(47:06):
with someone you would probablycall a life coach, someone who I
respect, and this person, sheenabled me to find ways to
express myself that weren't foranybody else but myself.
So I meditate, I journal when Ican.
(47:29):
It's not every day, I mean, I'dlove to meditate and journal
every day, but sometimes I don'tfeel like it right.
But within that process I wasable to kind of overcome a lot
of the fear of failure andrejection because I was able to
understand that the limitationsthat I place on myself are a
(47:52):
byproduct of experiences I hadgrowing up where I was rejected,
where I did fall on my face,where I did go broke, where I
did become homeless, you know.
And the great thing about allof those things was I was able
to pick myself up and try again.
So failure, through thisprocess of journaling, I
understood that failure was notwho I am.
(48:15):
It was an experience that I mayexperience again, but I have
the opportunities and I have thewill to overcome that.
David (48:26):
Sounds like you've done a lot of work, inner work and
then you realize you think bythe time you're 30, you're going
to have everything sorted.
35, yeah, 40, it's like, hmm, Iactually know nothing and I'm
going to be a student for life.
What would James right now, at40, awesome age, by the way,
(48:50):
just letting you know say to20-year-old James?
You get one piece of advice youcan't say buy Bitcoin one piece
of concise advice that you canshare with him in under 30
seconds.
Whoa, that's a lot.
That is a lot.
That's really hard, that's veryhard.
(49:11):
When I came out, I was likewhoa, that was too much, david.
James (49:15):
I mean, there's a lot that 20-something-year-old James
needed to hear, so it's hard tofit it all in 30 seconds.
I think the big thing that Iwould probably want to tell
myself is slow down Like Irushed through my 20s.
I rushed through my 20sworrying, stressing, striving,
(49:50):
striving, when I think if I hadslowed down, I would have maybe
achieved more but had lived withless anxiety and less stress,
if I just slowed down and caredless.
You know, I talked aboutentering my forties and how much
I just I stopped, I've stoppedcaring, I've stopped.
It's not that I don't care,it's just that the things that I
thought were important don'tmatter and I'm able to slow down
(50:13):
and appreciate and just toactually see the experience that
I'm having.
David (50:18):
That is awesome advice.
James (50:19):
Yeah.
David (50:20):
Because you know how you consume content and you hear
different entrepreneurs andbusiness owners, athletes, talk
about advice.
I can't recall someone justsaying as simple as slow down.
They've said de-stress and walkand exercise and mindfulness
and all that, but to say it inthat manner, slow down is really
.
It's resonated with me.
(50:41):
I guess that's what I'm tryingto say Now.
What I want you to do is justshare a little bit about.
We talked about three to fiveyears, but the next couple of
months, maybe something thatyou've got happening later this
year, you're going to be landingthis amazing audition that you
just did today as well.
We'll be acting in something aswell I'm just throwing that out
(51:04):
there into the energy.
James (51:04):
Yeah what have you?
David (51:05):
got coming up.
Let people know where they canfind you.
James (51:08):
I'm going to finish the manuscript for the book.
It's the first thing I need toget done.
I've got to do one moreinterview with my family, with
my cousins, to complete thatprocess and then go through the
back and forth with thepublisher, the film, which is
(51:28):
called Yoloo Country, that comesout in June and that's going to
do the film festival circuitand then we'll have, hopefully,
its theatrical release next year.
But I'm active on limitedsocial media.
I advise people to use allsocial media accounts, or as
many as they can, to tell theirnarrative.
(51:49):
I am a little bit limited.
I'm a little bit more private.
I have a LinkedIn account.
that is you know, I'm active onthere every few weeks.
My Facebook is pretty muchprivate now.
It's just family and friendsand it's just a way for me to
keep tabs on who's fighting withwho and who's not talking with
who.
David (52:07):
That's it For that army to get back to you.
Yes, yes, they won't answer thecall, but they'll check their
Facebook.
They'll check Facebook.
James (52:16):
They'll always check Facebook, but my Instagram is
private.
I don't post on there regularly.
Private, uh, I don't post onthere regularly.
Um, I had I do have ambition tohave some uh kind of space this
year, some kind of activity, umto talk about things like um
(52:39):
wellness, particularly from amen's what people identify as
men or men kind of a men's orpeople identify as men or men
kind of health and well-beingkind of page.
I've been working on a websitein the background and love that,
just working on what that'sgoing to look like from a
content perspective, whether I Igo down the road of making
content for youtube and tiktok,which is a great way, obviously,
(53:01):
obviously, to build audiences,but that comes with again,
overcoming the failure doubtaspects.
Yeah, that's kind of the yearahead, I think.
Oh, that's great.
David (53:15):
And where can people catch your film?
I think you said June.
James (53:22):
Yeah, so June.
It should be premiering in June.
We can't say where, but yeah,that YOLO country has a website
and social media pages andthey're active Fantastic,
because I'm managing them.
So check those out.
It's a film that's going to bevery important to the nation's
(53:43):
kind of psyche and kind ofconversations yeah I love it and
we'll make sure that we've gotall those links in the
description as well so peoplecan check it out.
They can find your website,they can find the film's website
.
Um, you know anything upcominglike you mentioned in that realm
of supporting people through?
You know creating content andtick tock brother.
(54:04):
Thank you for your time, thankyou for your space.
I appreciate yarning and I'msure we'll chat a lot more
norris, thank you for having me.
I really appreciate the timeabsolutely.
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