April 29, 2024 • 25 mins
In this episode, Nate discusses with Dr Michael Allen how we should approach reading Leviticus in our M'Cheyne Bible Reading plan. While the genealogies present a roadblock for many readers, they serve an importance purpose in both the book of Numbers, and the Pentateuch as a whole, which is tracing the unfolding promises of God.
For more resources for the M'Cheyne Bible Reading Plan, click here.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome to another episode of the All of Life
podcast.
I'm your host, Nate Claiborne,and once again we have Dr
Michael Allen to talk with usabout our Bible reading plan.
How are we doing today, MikeDoing?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
great.
It's rainy, it's dreary, butit's good to be talking about
the Bible with you.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
You know it's a theme I feel like.
Last time it was rainy anddreary as well, but something
about talking about the book ofNumbers warms the heart.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
There you go, that's right.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
So we commented briefly last time that we're
just doing these updates monthlyto kind of give big picture
overviews of some of the newbooks that we're starting.
People can go back and listento this episode on Psalms that
Ben and I did, because we'restill kind of in the thick of
the Psalms and we will probablycover some of the other books
(00:58):
that we're starting later thismonth Isaiah, hebrews, james,
peter.
There's several episodes thatwill be in the app that people
can go find for those books, butone that they can't find is on
the book of Numbers which, asyou're listening to this, if
you've been keeping up with theBible reading plan, you've
actually made it throughprobably the hardest part,
because you've read thegenealogies, those 11, 12
(01:21):
chapters of name after nameafter name that you probably
can't pronounce, but you kind ofare trying to stick with it and
read through.
Hopefully you noticed thecontext for our benediction that
we use from number six.
You would have touched on that,but just by way of intro.
There's a reason number startsoff with name after name after
name.
There's a reason numbers startsoff with name after name after
(01:44):
name and it is demonstratingthis is the outworking of the
promises to Abraham.
He's become a great nation.
He has many descendants.
It's also rooting things inspace and time.
These are real people and Godcares about real people and real
people's lives, and even peoplethat are just a name mentioned
(02:06):
in passing and numbers, andthat's maybe we wonder more, but
uh, it's just showing that itand this isn't the first
genealogy either we've.
Genealogies are actually kind ofsignificant through the bible
as much as we tend to skip overand pass through them, so to
speak.
But now that we've gottenthrough the genealogies, we kind
of we know all these names, weknow all the players.
The story is about to unfold.
(02:28):
I think people would have readNumbers 13 yesterday, even
depending on when this isreleased.
So they heard the report fromthe spies which is going to set
in motion everything else thatis to come.
So, mike, take us from there.
What are we looking at?
Moving forward?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, I mean mean, like you said, this can
sometimes feel like a slowlystarting movie where you're
taking in the expanse.
The credits are at the beginning.
Uh, you know it's it's.
It's a movie where you see alot of the scenery, perhaps you
you get different sketches ofcharacters sort of coming to
(03:05):
some sort of meeting point.
Um, and there is a reason forthat.
This is trying to root thestory in real space time history
, as you underline, and wecontinue to see that as
important.
I mean, when we profess thecreeds, the great christian
creeds, we we name a guy's sinright Crucified under Pontius
(03:26):
Pilate, and we're not just beingmean or vindictive.
It's an attempt to specify thatwhen we talk about the story of
Jesus too, it's in realspace-time history and we named
the Roman responsible becausethat would be most easily
identifiable by folks.
So it's just a reminder.
(03:46):
The Bible is not just from thereal world but actually makes a
point to to convey that in a waythat could be checked by others
.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
You bring up the Pontius Pilate mentioned.
It was just a great, because Ithink otherwise people would
think.
All these other things that arein the creed are very
significant about Jesus, life,life and the Father, almighty
and the Holy Spirit, and all ofa sudden we get this one random
Roman governor mentioned.
Why is he there?
And you underlined it.
Well, yeah, he's a real personthat has a real history, and it
(04:18):
anchors all of these othertheological things to history is
important because these eventsactually happened.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
So this is a story happening in the real world, in
real space and time, and thatmeans we ought to step back and
just think about narrativesequence and geographic location
.
And you know, numbers beginsaying the Lord spoke to Moses
in the wilderness of Sinai, inthe tent of meeting, on the
first day of the second month inthe second year after they'd
(04:48):
come out of the land of Egypt.
So right there we get a lot byway of location.
They're this side by a coupleof years of being liberated from
slavery in Egypt.
They're this side of meeting Godat Sinai.
They're this side of thetabernacle being constructed
according to God's design.
(05:09):
At the end of the book ofExodus, god's glory entering
there and just like Leviticusbefore it, so here in Numbers,
god is speaking from that tentto Moses so that the people will
be instructed through him toMoses, so that the people will
(05:29):
be instructed through him.
We also see that they're stillin the wilderness, so they're
not yet in the land of Canaan,but they're no longer in slavery
in Egypt.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Right, a lot happened in Leviticus, but one thing
that didn't happen is theydidn't go anywhere.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yep.
So we are still very much inthat situation.
They are in this sojourningmigrant pilgrim sort of
situation and that's reallyimportant to understand.
The struggles that are going toset in, as well as the kind of
spiritual guidance that aregiven are commands that you give
(06:02):
to folks who aren't wellestablished, who don't have mass
resources, who don't havecities and towns and storehouses
.
You'll see that kind ofinstruction in Deuteronomy for
when they're actually going tobe in the land.
But here it's a call to peoplewho need to trust, who need to
(06:22):
hope, who need to press on.
Call to people who need totrust, who need to hope, who
need to press on, who need toact, who are pursuing things
they haven't yet enjoyed andneed to do so by faith in the
one true God.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, yeah.
So that kind of that gives useven more context for what's
about to happen.
As the story is going to startpicking up, players are
established, where are we going?
What are we doing now?
And so we just got a reportback from the spies.
The land is there, we can takeit, but also, by the way,
there's giants we felt likegrasshoppers among them.
Two spies are all for it, therest are not.
(07:02):
And then the people say, yeah,I don't know if we want to do
that.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah, Well, not only yeah, I don't know.
But let's get new leaders,let's go back to Egypt and, as
you read into the beginning ofchapter 14, they are ready to
execute a coup and they areready to head back to slavery in
Egypt and at this point theythink the regularity of life in
(07:27):
Egypt is appealing to thisuncertainty of life as migrant
sojourners in the wilderness.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
At least we had garlics, leeks and onions.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
That's right, yeah, you lived in this massive empire
where there were resources,where you knew what to expect
day by day, and that provides alot of comfort relative to
uncertainty, relative to theunknown.
And what we see there inchapter 14 is really significant
(08:00):
.
In fact there's a strongargument to be made that it
explains sort of the struggle ofthe entire book.
We can get to that in a minute.
But the story is this waves ofstruggle, you know.
The first problem you named hereis they refuse to follow the
Lord's command to cross theriver and to seize the land.
(08:22):
And the Lord approaches Moses.
How long will this people notobey me?
How long will they not believein me, is his question.
And the Lord comes in judgmentand Moses, like in Exodus 33,
moses intercedes again and theLord pledges not to wipe Israel
(08:47):
out, but he does say thisgeneration will die and it will
only be their children who Ieventually take into the
promised land.
That leads Dennis Olson, awonderful commentator on the
book, to say this is about thedeath of the old generation, the
birth of the new.
That's the transitional movehere.
And Moses delivers this message.
(09:10):
And again there's another scriptat the end of chapter 14.
They hear the message and theytake exactly the wrong
instruction from it.
Moses is saying God's going toleave you in the wilderness now
as punishment for yourstiff-necked sin, and you're
going to die, but your childrenGod will show favor to and take
into the land eventually.
And they immediately say we'regoing to go attack.
(09:33):
And Moses says no, no, no, theLord won't be with you, the ark
won't be with you, I won't bewith you.
You will get whooped.
You had your chance and we'retold they presumed and they went
across and they attacked and,as expected and warned, they got
defeated.
What's fascinating is to observethat, while these may seem very
different sins, they'relethargic and lazy and they
(09:56):
won't act at the beginning ofthe chapter.
They're presumptive andarrogant and they go and do what
they ought not at the end.
It's a sin of commission and asin of omission.
It's a sin of presumption and asin of despair.
We might think those are verydifferent kind of personalities
and screw ups.
The central problem gets pickedup by Deuteronomy 1 and then
(10:21):
Hebrews 3, both refer to thisepisode and both name it as a
sin of unbelief.
They fail to trust God and youcan actually see that in Numbers
14.
The rebuke of God and thejudgment of God, not as a
(10:44):
failure to see God as capable ofdefeating the big imposing
folks on the other side of theriver, but rather as a rebuke to
their self-perception.
We must be stronger than wethought, we must be more capable
of taking them.
And so they presume and they goand act foolishly.
And so in both episodes we seeIsrael failing to trust and to
act in a way that manifests thattrust.
(11:06):
And their failure to trusttakes the form first of despair
and inactivity and then ofpresumption and arrogant
activity, and I think we canidentify with both of those in
various ways.
We can also identify with theroot problem.
As Deuteronomy 1 and Hebrews 3will put it unbelief.
(11:28):
Unbelief is the warning to takefrom this passage.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yeah which is something we can't say that
we've moved beyond that Right.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, that Right.
Yeah.
Hebrews 3 brings it up to offera warning that that
generation's not able to enterGod's rest in the land because
of unbelief, and that's beingpresented to Christians in you
know the generation after Christas a similar warning.
Don't you be like that.
You learn from their mistake.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
You've from their mistake.
You've also got the twinconcern of idolatry, which is
what Paul's going to pick up onin 1 Corinthians 10, where he
details I mean, it's kind ofinteresting If you're not as
familiar with numbers, which,when you read 1 Corinthians 10 a
few months ago, he talks aboutall these stories and you're
like when did all that happen?
It's like, well, it happened innumbers and it's you know, as
(12:20):
much as we're prone to strugglewith unbelief, we're also prone
to struggle with idolatry.
Not that those are tworadically different things, but
they're often two sides of thesame coin.
I won't believe in the one trueGod and obey his word.
I will trust in this God thatI've fashioned for myself, or
this God of the age or somethinglike that.
And so Paul's warning usagainst that and saying these
(12:42):
stories in Numbers are writtenfor our instruction, for our
benefit, for us to grow inwisdom from yeah, and Numbers
really paints in such a craftedway that must mark
intentionality and care.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
It depicts the negative force or power, the
terrible effect of idolatry andunbelief, and we see that in
that the sins are described intwo ways.
We know that there are tenmurmurings by the Israelites.
That's named or numbered, butin numbers.
(13:20):
We have actually seven episodesthat are described at length,
and both those numbers aresignificant.
Ten, of course, patterns afterthe Ten Commandments, and it
shows that basically as manywords as God gives to describe
the good life, so we match it,sadly, in the story of Israel,
(13:41):
with disobediences.
The seven, though, clearly mapsonto the number seven from
Genesis 1 and 2.
And if.
Genesis 1 and 2 describe sevenacts or days that depict a world
being ordered for wholeness,for life with God.
(14:01):
Then what we see in numbers arethese seven murmurings that
really show the move to disorderand the inability to continue
living with God, and they're soartfully crafted.
The first and the seventh, thesecond and the sixth, the third
and the fifth.
Each of those pairs share acommon prompt or idol, whether
(14:25):
it's bread or it's water, orit's the leaders.
In each of those cases there'sthis ordered structure, what we
literally call a chiasm, wherethe first and the last match and
the next and the next to lastmatch, and so we see this
clearly intentional.
It's artful, it's describinghow the idolatrous unbelieving
(14:48):
heart will find a variety ofthings, and so we're not
surprised in life,psychologically and spiritually,
that somebody who'sidolatrously pursuing one thing
in unbelief, they're going tostart doing that with other
things.
Typically, you don't lead anundisciplined life for long in
(15:08):
just one area.
We're not segmented orfragmented, and just as that's
meant to be a good, that canalso be a harm and an undoing.
And actually the centralepisode is the one that you
named, when the spy report comesback in numbers 13.
And when we see their tworesponses in numbers 14, that is
(15:29):
the fourth and central episodeof murmuring.
It's the one described atdouble the length of any of the
other six and, as in any chiasm,the central episode is the one
that paradigmatically explainsthe rest.
So we see that this kind ofidolatry and unbelief that are
(15:50):
named there in chapter 14, theyare really what we're to see and
perceive in all these otherstruggles and they explain why
the old must die and somethingnew must begin, because the life
of unbelief, the life ofidolatry, it brings no hope, it
(16:11):
leads only to despair, it bringsno peace, it leads only to
despair, it brings no peace, itleads only to chaos and disquiet
.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah.
So that gives a really tragickind of foreshadowing to what
we're going to be readingthrough the rest of Numbers.
It's kind of like the fate hasalready we don't want to say
it's fate, but the decision hasalready been made and it's just
getting outworked, Even to thepoint of it affecting Moses made
and it's just getting outworked, uh, even to the point of it
affecting Moses.
I mean, I think we we get thestory in a few more chapters,
(16:37):
maybe next week, where we findout why Moses doesn't actually
make it into the promised land.
I mean, he's been.
Even he gets worn down overtime by all the people's
idolatry and unbelief and youknow, I think we used to.
It's not a joke, really, but Ithink it's.
Is it right around here?
Is it Numbers 13 where it talksabout Moses being, one way of
translating, as the most humbleman on the face of the earth?
(16:59):
But it's like, well, if he'sthe most humble man on the face
of the earth, I don't know if hewould say that, but the word
can also mean afflicted andyou're like, oh yeah, he, yeah,
If you've really sat with Moses,he's really been trying to do
the right thing.
He's saved the people's neckmultiple times and yet they
still grumble, complain, want toreplace him.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, moses is a key character.
I mean we see here, as we sawas far back as Exodus and as far
reaching as into Deuteronomy.
On the one hand, of course,moses plays this pivotal role
because the people keep screwingup and judgment's going to
befall them and they needsomeone to intercede.
(17:40):
And Moses plays the role ofmediator, and we saw that way
back in Exodus 19.
They get to the mountain andGod calls them up to meet with
them at Sinai, and the peoplesay we can't do that, we'll die.
We're impure, you go.
Well, moses is impure too, butsomeone's got to meet with God,
yeah.
And so he's the, the leaderdeputized, who is bearing a
(18:03):
treacherous calling and yetdoing it on behalf of the people
.
And we see it here, as inExodus 33, when there's a
heinous sin, moses intercedesand he pleads before God with
success.
God responds to his prayers andthough there is a judgment that
falls upon the people, it's notas harsh as it might be, it's
(18:23):
moderated by mercy that hisprayers have asked for.
And so Moses is a type or asign of the kind of mediator we
need, but, like you named, he'snot capable of being the kind of
mediator that we eventuallyneed.
He's worn down, he himself isimperfect and so, in a real
(18:46):
sense, he's eventually going tohave to die, and he's going to
have to die outside the land,because he's bearing this
calling that he is notultimately capable of upholding.
And it's a signal of a mediatorwe need in the fact that even
this most remarkable man, one ofwhom Deuteronomy says, there's
not yet been a prophet like him.
(19:08):
We need one still greater, andthe law doesn't tell us what
that must be.
But as we read on in the Bible,we learn that mystery is
revealed in that God himselfassumes human form and takes the
role of Messiah on our behalf.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yeah, it fulfills that picture that we get from
Moses, and we could also look atMoses as saying, not Moses as
saying, but Moses' story asshowing us the contrast of life
of faith versus life under thelaw.
And if Moses is under the law,he has to obey it perfectly in
order to enter into the promisedland.
(19:46):
And so the one I mean it's aflagrant infraction, it's direct
disobedience.
And so he gets picked up in theNew Testament as this figure
that Jesus fulfills the patternthat he represents, but he's not
drawn on as the example of thelife of faith, the way Abraham
is Right.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, you know, there's another thing about the
law and about sort of the moralorder here in numbers that we
can observe, and that's the wayin which there's a poetic
justice that is so ironic andseemingly paradoxical.
So you look at Numbers 13 and14, and the people aren't just
lazy, they give a reason for whythey don't want to cross the
(20:25):
river and obey God and take theland.
They see the big people overthere and they say, if we do
that, our children will beslaughtered over there.
And they say, if we do that,our children will be slaughtered
.
And so they pose it in the formof protecting the more
vulnerable right.
The women and children will beslaughtered.
What do we see in God's judgmentthat befalls them when they
(20:47):
refuse to go?
God says you will die in thewilderness, only your children,
who you thought you wereprotecting, only they will enter
the land and I will be the oneto carry them over.
There's a rich irony or apoetic justice in the way in
which claiming to care for thechildren, apart from God's
(21:09):
design, it leads to a judgmentin that regard.
And how often is that not thecase that what we think we're
doing often is so terriblycounterproductive.
yeah, if it's done apart fromGod's design and from his
instruction yeah if it's done,apart from trust and what he
(21:31):
reveals, we often are not like awell-functioning body, but like
one marred by an autoimmunedisease, where our best efforts
to cleanse and to heal areactually counterproductive and
harm ourselves.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Maybe that theme gets picked up as well in the New
Testament, with this idea of theworks of the flesh versus the
life of the spirit, the fleshbeing your in different ways you
could define it.
But this instinct toself-preserve, to make sure I
have everything I need to lookout for the self over and
against caring for the other.
And you're being called tofollow Christ and live the life
(22:09):
according to the spirit, and youget the contrast in Galatians
and elsewhere.
Live life according to thespirit and you get the.
You know the contrast ingalatians and elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It's just a different way of talking about the
narrative that we get depictedin numbers of this constant
temptation to unbelief, idolatry, the flesh versus following god
, following the spirit yeah, andthat's a great phrase to bring
in nate that the idea of think,thinking or living according to
the flesh, um, the language paulused in remens 8, for instance,
rather, or living according tothe flesh, the language Paul
used in Romans 8, for instance,rather than living according to
(22:37):
the spirit, living according tothe flesh.
Another way to think about it isto say they are being very
calculating and in a real sensethey're calculating as we might
imagine people in the Pentagoncalculating.
They look at their strength,they look at their opponent's
strength, they game it out andthey assess the odds of what
(23:00):
might happen.
The problem is they game it outin what we could today call a
thoroughly secularized form.
They have no concern for thepotential that God who's calling
them there will be the God whodelivers them there, and that's
why one key thing we need towatch for in Numbers is that
(23:20):
their unbelief and theiridolatry is so often paired with
forgetfulness.
They forget the wonders God hasdone in defeating Pharaoh, in
the plague cycle, in deliveringthem from slavery, in bringing
them through the sea, inproviding for them in so many
(23:41):
ways thus far in the wilderness.
I mean quail and baked goodsshow up to feed them on the
regular and yet they forgetthese just supernatural gifts
and they calculate as thoughit's just up to them and their
strength, or it's just limitedby them and their weakness, and
(24:01):
so numbers.
It reminds us of the terriblecost of forgetting God's wonders
and of the significance for usto practice the art, the craft
of remembrance if we're going tojourney by faith.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah, that is a great way to conclude our time here
talking about numbers, becauseit also sets us up for
Deuteronomy, where remembranceis going to be a key thing and
the need to remember.
And as people work their waythrough numbers, they're going
to have a better sense of whenthey get to Deuteronomy, who's
actually being called on toremember.
It's the children who came outof Egypt are supposed to now, as
(24:40):
adults, teach things, passthings on to their children so
that they don't forget what theLord, god, has done for them
over the course of the last 40plus years.
So, mike, I'm glad we had timeto sit down and talk about
numbers today, and not sure whenour next one is, but I'm sure
we'll come up with somethinggood that we can talk about next
time.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Good to be on the journey.
Welcome to another episode of the All of Life
podcast.
I'm your host, Nate Claiborne,and once again we have Dr
Michael Allen to talk with usabout our Bible reading plan.
How are we doing today, MikeDoing?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
great.
It's rainy, it's dreary, butit's good to be talking about
the Bible with you.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
You know it's a theme I feel like.
Last time it was rainy anddreary as well, but something
about talking about the book ofNumbers warms the heart.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
There you go, that's right.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
So we commented briefly last time that we're
just doing these updates monthlyto kind of give big picture
overviews of some of the newbooks that we're starting.
People can go back and listento this episode on Psalms that
Ben and I did, because we'restill kind of in the thick of
the Psalms and we will probablycover some of the other books
(00:58):
that we're starting later thismonth Isaiah, hebrews, james,
peter.
There's several episodes thatwill be in the app that people
can go find for those books, butone that they can't find is on
the book of Numbers which, asyou're listening to this, if
you've been keeping up with theBible reading plan, you've
actually made it throughprobably the hardest part,
because you've read thegenealogies, those 11, 12
(01:21):
chapters of name after nameafter name that you probably
can't pronounce, but you kind ofare trying to stick with it and
read through.
Hopefully you noticed thecontext for our benediction that
we use from number six.
You would have touched on that,but just by way of intro.
There's a reason number startsoff with name after name after
name.
There's a reason numbers startsoff with name after name after
(01:44):
name and it is demonstratingthis is the outworking of the
promises to Abraham.
He's become a great nation.
He has many descendants.
It's also rooting things inspace and time.
These are real people and Godcares about real people and real
people's lives, and even peoplethat are just a name mentioned
(02:06):
in passing and numbers, andthat's maybe we wonder more, but
uh, it's just showing that itand this isn't the first
genealogy either we've.
Genealogies are actually kind ofsignificant through the bible
as much as we tend to skip overand pass through them, so to
speak.
But now that we've gottenthrough the genealogies, we kind
of we know all these names, weknow all the players.
The story is about to unfold.
(02:28):
I think people would have readNumbers 13 yesterday, even
depending on when this isreleased.
So they heard the report fromthe spies which is going to set
in motion everything else thatis to come.
So, mike, take us from there.
What are we looking at?
Moving forward?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, I mean mean, like you said, this can
sometimes feel like a slowlystarting movie where you're
taking in the expanse.
The credits are at the beginning.
Uh, you know it's it's.
It's a movie where you see alot of the scenery, perhaps you
you get different sketches ofcharacters sort of coming to
(03:05):
some sort of meeting point.
Um, and there is a reason forthat.
This is trying to root thestory in real space time history
, as you underline, and wecontinue to see that as
important.
I mean, when we profess thecreeds, the great christian
creeds, we we name a guy's sinright Crucified under Pontius
(03:26):
Pilate, and we're not just beingmean or vindictive.
It's an attempt to specify thatwhen we talk about the story of
Jesus too, it's in realspace-time history and we named
the Roman responsible becausethat would be most easily
identifiable by folks.
So it's just a reminder.
(03:46):
The Bible is not just from thereal world but actually makes a
point to to convey that in a waythat could be checked by others
.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
You bring up the Pontius Pilate mentioned.
It was just a great, because Ithink otherwise people would
think.
All these other things that arein the creed are very
significant about Jesus, life,life and the Father, almighty
and the Holy Spirit, and all ofa sudden we get this one random
Roman governor mentioned.
Why is he there?
And you underlined it.
Well, yeah, he's a real personthat has a real history, and it
(04:18):
anchors all of these othertheological things to history is
important because these eventsactually happened.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
So this is a story happening in the real world, in
real space and time, and thatmeans we ought to step back and
just think about narrativesequence and geographic location
.
And you know, numbers beginsaying the Lord spoke to Moses
in the wilderness of Sinai, inthe tent of meeting, on the
first day of the second month inthe second year after they'd
(04:48):
come out of the land of Egypt.
So right there we get a lot byway of location.
They're this side by a coupleof years of being liberated from
slavery in Egypt.
They're this side of meeting Godat Sinai.
They're this side of thetabernacle being constructed
according to God's design.
(05:09):
At the end of the book ofExodus, god's glory entering
there and just like Leviticusbefore it, so here in Numbers,
god is speaking from that tentto Moses so that the people will
be instructed through him toMoses, so that the people will
(05:29):
be instructed through him.
We also see that they're stillin the wilderness, so they're
not yet in the land of Canaan,but they're no longer in slavery
in Egypt.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Right, a lot happened in Leviticus, but one thing
that didn't happen is theydidn't go anywhere.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Yep.
So we are still very much inthat situation.
They are in this sojourningmigrant pilgrim sort of
situation and that's reallyimportant to understand.
The struggles that are going toset in, as well as the kind of
spiritual guidance that aregiven are commands that you give
(06:02):
to folks who aren't wellestablished, who don't have mass
resources, who don't havecities and towns and storehouses
.
You'll see that kind ofinstruction in Deuteronomy for
when they're actually going tobe in the land.
But here it's a call to peoplewho need to trust, who need to
(06:22):
hope, who need to press on.
Call to people who need totrust, who need to hope, who
need to press on, who need toact, who are pursuing things
they haven't yet enjoyed andneed to do so by faith in the
one true God.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah, yeah.
So that kind of that gives useven more context for what's
about to happen.
As the story is going to startpicking up, players are
established, where are we going?
What are we doing now?
And so we just got a reportback from the spies.
The land is there, we can takeit, but also, by the way,
there's giants we felt likegrasshoppers among them.
Two spies are all for it, therest are not.
(07:02):
And then the people say, yeah,I don't know if we want to do
that.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah, Well, not only yeah, I don't know.
But let's get new leaders,let's go back to Egypt and, as
you read into the beginning ofchapter 14, they are ready to
execute a coup and they areready to head back to slavery in
Egypt and at this point theythink the regularity of life in
(07:27):
Egypt is appealing to thisuncertainty of life as migrant
sojourners in the wilderness.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
At least we had garlics, leeks and onions.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
That's right, yeah, you lived in this massive empire
where there were resources,where you knew what to expect
day by day, and that provides alot of comfort relative to
uncertainty, relative to theunknown.
And what we see there inchapter 14 is really significant
(08:00):
.
In fact there's a strongargument to be made that it
explains sort of the struggle ofthe entire book.
We can get to that in a minute.
But the story is this waves ofstruggle, you know.
The first problem you named hereis they refuse to follow the
Lord's command to cross theriver and to seize the land.
(08:22):
And the Lord approaches Moses.
How long will this people notobey me?
How long will they not believein me, is his question.
And the Lord comes in judgmentand Moses, like in Exodus 33,
moses intercedes again and theLord pledges not to wipe Israel
(08:47):
out, but he does say thisgeneration will die and it will
only be their children who Ieventually take into the
promised land.
That leads Dennis Olson, awonderful commentator on the
book, to say this is about thedeath of the old generation, the
birth of the new.
That's the transitional movehere.
And Moses delivers this message.
(09:10):
And again there's another scriptat the end of chapter 14.
They hear the message and theytake exactly the wrong
instruction from it.
Moses is saying God's going toleave you in the wilderness now
as punishment for yourstiff-necked sin, and you're
going to die, but your childrenGod will show favor to and take
into the land eventually.
And they immediately say we'regoing to go attack.
(09:33):
And Moses says no, no, no, theLord won't be with you, the ark
won't be with you, I won't bewith you.
You will get whooped.
You had your chance and we'retold they presumed and they went
across and they attacked and,as expected and warned, they got
defeated.
What's fascinating is to observethat, while these may seem very
different sins, they'relethargic and lazy and they
(09:56):
won't act at the beginning ofthe chapter.
They're presumptive andarrogant and they go and do what
they ought not at the end.
It's a sin of commission and asin of omission.
It's a sin of presumption and asin of despair.
We might think those are verydifferent kind of personalities
and screw ups.
The central problem gets pickedup by Deuteronomy 1 and then
(10:21):
Hebrews 3, both refer to thisepisode and both name it as a
sin of unbelief.
They fail to trust God and youcan actually see that in Numbers
14.
The rebuke of God and thejudgment of God, not as a
(10:44):
failure to see God as capable ofdefeating the big imposing
folks on the other side of theriver, but rather as a rebuke to
their self-perception.
We must be stronger than wethought, we must be more capable
of taking them.
And so they presume and they goand act foolishly.
And so in both episodes we seeIsrael failing to trust and to
act in a way that manifests thattrust.
(11:06):
And their failure to trusttakes the form first of despair
and inactivity and then ofpresumption and arrogant
activity, and I think we canidentify with both of those in
various ways.
We can also identify with theroot problem.
As Deuteronomy 1 and Hebrews 3will put it unbelief.
(11:28):
Unbelief is the warning to takefrom this passage.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Yeah which is something we can't say that
we've moved beyond that Right.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, that Right.
Yeah.
Hebrews 3 brings it up to offera warning that that
generation's not able to enterGod's rest in the land because
of unbelief, and that's beingpresented to Christians in you
know the generation after Christas a similar warning.
Don't you be like that.
You learn from their mistake.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
You've from their mistake.
You've also got the twinconcern of idolatry, which is
what Paul's going to pick up onin 1 Corinthians 10, where he
details I mean, it's kind ofinteresting If you're not as
familiar with numbers, which,when you read 1 Corinthians 10 a
few months ago, he talks aboutall these stories and you're
like when did all that happen?
It's like, well, it happened innumbers and it's you know, as
(12:20):
much as we're prone to strugglewith unbelief, we're also prone
to struggle with idolatry.
Not that those are tworadically different things, but
they're often two sides of thesame coin.
I won't believe in the one trueGod and obey his word.
I will trust in this God thatI've fashioned for myself, or
this God of the age or somethinglike that.
And so Paul's warning usagainst that and saying these
(12:42):
stories in Numbers are writtenfor our instruction, for our
benefit, for us to grow inwisdom from yeah, and Numbers
really paints in such a craftedway that must mark
intentionality and care.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
It depicts the negative force or power, the
terrible effect of idolatry andunbelief, and we see that in
that the sins are described intwo ways.
We know that there are tenmurmurings by the Israelites.
That's named or numbered, butin numbers.
(13:20):
We have actually seven episodesthat are described at length,
and both those numbers aresignificant.
Ten, of course, patterns afterthe Ten Commandments, and it
shows that basically as manywords as God gives to describe
the good life, so we match it,sadly, in the story of Israel,
(13:41):
with disobediences.
The seven, though, clearly mapsonto the number seven from
Genesis 1 and 2.
And if.
Genesis 1 and 2 describe sevenacts or days that depict a world
being ordered for wholeness,for life with God.
(14:01):
Then what we see in numbers arethese seven murmurings that
really show the move to disorderand the inability to continue
living with God, and they're soartfully crafted.
The first and the seventh, thesecond and the sixth, the third
and the fifth.
Each of those pairs share acommon prompt or idol, whether
(14:25):
it's bread or it's water, orit's the leaders.
In each of those cases there'sthis ordered structure, what we
literally call a chiasm, wherethe first and the last match and
the next and the next to lastmatch, and so we see this
clearly intentional.
It's artful, it's describinghow the idolatrous unbelieving
(14:48):
heart will find a variety ofthings, and so we're not
surprised in life,psychologically and spiritually,
that somebody who'sidolatrously pursuing one thing
in unbelief, they're going tostart doing that with other
things.
Typically, you don't lead anundisciplined life for long in
(15:08):
just one area.
We're not segmented orfragmented, and just as that's
meant to be a good, that canalso be a harm and an undoing.
And actually the centralepisode is the one that you
named, when the spy report comesback in numbers 13.
And when we see their tworesponses in numbers 14, that is
(15:29):
the fourth and central episodeof murmuring.
It's the one described atdouble the length of any of the
other six and, as in any chiasm,the central episode is the one
that paradigmatically explainsthe rest.
So we see that this kind ofidolatry and unbelief that are
(15:50):
named there in chapter 14, theyare really what we're to see and
perceive in all these otherstruggles and they explain why
the old must die and somethingnew must begin, because the life
of unbelief, the life ofidolatry, it brings no hope, it
(16:11):
leads only to despair, it bringsno peace, it leads only to
despair, it brings no peace, itleads only to chaos and disquiet
.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Yeah.
So that gives a really tragickind of foreshadowing to what
we're going to be readingthrough the rest of Numbers.
It's kind of like the fate hasalready we don't want to say
it's fate, but the decision hasalready been made and it's just
getting outworked, Even to thepoint of it affecting Moses made
and it's just getting outworked, uh, even to the point of it
affecting Moses.
I mean, I think we we get thestory in a few more chapters,
(16:37):
maybe next week, where we findout why Moses doesn't actually
make it into the promised land.
I mean, he's been.
Even he gets worn down overtime by all the people's
idolatry and unbelief and youknow, I think we used to.
It's not a joke, really, but Ithink it's.
Is it right around here?
Is it Numbers 13 where it talksabout Moses being, one way of
translating, as the most humbleman on the face of the earth?
(16:59):
But it's like, well, if he'sthe most humble man on the face
of the earth, I don't know if hewould say that, but the word
can also mean afflicted andyou're like, oh yeah, he, yeah,
If you've really sat with Moses,he's really been trying to do
the right thing.
He's saved the people's neckmultiple times and yet they
still grumble, complain, want toreplace him.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, moses is a key character.
I mean we see here, as we sawas far back as Exodus and as far
reaching as into Deuteronomy.
On the one hand, of course,moses plays this pivotal role
because the people keep screwingup and judgment's going to
befall them and they needsomeone to intercede.
(17:40):
And Moses plays the role ofmediator, and we saw that way
back in Exodus 19.
They get to the mountain andGod calls them up to meet with
them at Sinai, and the peoplesay we can't do that, we'll die.
We're impure, you go.
Well, moses is impure too, butsomeone's got to meet with God,
yeah.
And so he's the, the leaderdeputized, who is bearing a
(18:03):
treacherous calling and yetdoing it on behalf of the people
.
And we see it here, as inExodus 33, when there's a
heinous sin, moses intercedesand he pleads before God with
success.
God responds to his prayers andthough there is a judgment that
falls upon the people, it's notas harsh as it might be, it's
(18:23):
moderated by mercy that hisprayers have asked for.
And so Moses is a type or asign of the kind of mediator we
need, but, like you named, he'snot capable of being the kind of
mediator that we eventuallyneed.
He's worn down, he himself isimperfect and so, in a real
(18:46):
sense, he's eventually going tohave to die, and he's going to
have to die outside the land,because he's bearing this
calling that he is notultimately capable of upholding.
And it's a signal of a mediatorwe need in the fact that even
this most remarkable man, one ofwhom Deuteronomy says, there's
not yet been a prophet like him.
(19:08):
We need one still greater, andthe law doesn't tell us what
that must be.
But as we read on in the Bible,we learn that mystery is
revealed in that God himselfassumes human form and takes the
role of Messiah on our behalf.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yeah, it fulfills that picture that we get from
Moses, and we could also look atMoses as saying, not Moses as
saying, but Moses' story asshowing us the contrast of life
of faith versus life under thelaw.
And if Moses is under the law,he has to obey it perfectly in
order to enter into the promisedland.
(19:46):
And so the one I mean it's aflagrant infraction, it's direct
disobedience.
And so he gets picked up in theNew Testament as this figure
that Jesus fulfills the patternthat he represents, but he's not
drawn on as the example of thelife of faith, the way Abraham
is Right.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah, you know, there's another thing about the
law and about sort of the moralorder here in numbers that we
can observe, and that's the wayin which there's a poetic
justice that is so ironic andseemingly paradoxical.
So you look at Numbers 13 and14, and the people aren't just
lazy, they give a reason for whythey don't want to cross the
(20:25):
river and obey God and take theland.
They see the big people overthere and they say, if we do
that, our children will beslaughtered over there.
And they say, if we do that,our children will be slaughtered
.
And so they pose it in the formof protecting the more
vulnerable right.
The women and children will beslaughtered.
What do we see in God's judgmentthat befalls them when they
(20:47):
refuse to go?
God says you will die in thewilderness, only your children,
who you thought you wereprotecting, only they will enter
the land and I will be the oneto carry them over.
There's a rich irony or apoetic justice in the way in
which claiming to care for thechildren, apart from God's
(21:09):
design, it leads to a judgmentin that regard.
And how often is that not thecase that what we think we're
doing often is so terriblycounterproductive.
yeah, if it's done apart fromGod's design and from his
instruction yeah if it's done,apart from trust and what he
(21:31):
reveals, we often are not like awell-functioning body, but like
one marred by an autoimmunedisease, where our best efforts
to cleanse and to heal areactually counterproductive and
harm ourselves.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Maybe that theme gets picked up as well in the New
Testament, with this idea of theworks of the flesh versus the
life of the spirit, the fleshbeing your in different ways you
could define it.
But this instinct toself-preserve, to make sure I
have everything I need to lookout for the self over and
against caring for the other.
And you're being called tofollow Christ and live the life
(22:09):
according to the spirit, and youget the contrast in Galatians
and elsewhere.
Live life according to thespirit and you get the.
You know the contrast ingalatians and elsewhere.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It's just a different way of talking about the
narrative that we get depictedin numbers of this constant
temptation to unbelief, idolatry, the flesh versus following god
, following the spirit yeah, andthat's a great phrase to bring
in nate that the idea of think,thinking or living according to
the flesh, um, the language paulused in remens 8, for instance,
rather, or living according tothe flesh, the language Paul
used in Romans 8, for instance,rather than living according to
(22:37):
the spirit, living according tothe flesh.
Another way to think about it isto say they are being very
calculating and in a real sensethey're calculating as we might
imagine people in the Pentagoncalculating.
They look at their strength,they look at their opponent's
strength, they game it out andthey assess the odds of what
(23:00):
might happen.
The problem is they game it outin what we could today call a
thoroughly secularized form.
They have no concern for thepotential that God who's calling
them there will be the God whodelivers them there, and that's
why one key thing we need towatch for in Numbers is that
(23:20):
their unbelief and theiridolatry is so often paired with
forgetfulness.
They forget the wonders God hasdone in defeating Pharaoh, in
the plague cycle, in deliveringthem from slavery, in bringing
them through the sea, inproviding for them in so many
(23:41):
ways thus far in the wilderness.
I mean quail and baked goodsshow up to feed them on the
regular and yet they forgetthese just supernatural gifts
and they calculate as thoughit's just up to them and their
strength, or it's just limitedby them and their weakness, and
(24:01):
so numbers.
It reminds us of the terriblecost of forgetting God's wonders
and of the significance for usto practice the art, the craft
of remembrance if we're going tojourney by faith.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah, that is a great way to conclude our time here
talking about numbers, becauseit also sets us up for
Deuteronomy, where remembranceis going to be a key thing and
the need to remember.
And as people work their waythrough numbers, they're going
to have a better sense of whenthey get to Deuteronomy, who's
actually being called on toremember.
It's the children who came outof Egypt are supposed to now, as
(24:40):
adults, teach things, passthings on to their children so
that they don't forget what theLord, god, has done for them
over the course of the last 40plus years.
So, mike, I'm glad we had timeto sit down and talk about
numbers today, and not sure whenour next one is, but I'm sure
we'll come up with somethinggood that we can talk about next
time.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Good to be on the journey.
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