March 9, 2025 • 64 mins
In this episode, Benjamin Kandt sits down with JD Widhalm, Michael Hampl, and Dylan Yost. The discussion revolves around Dylan’s journey to faith and how the community at NewCity played a significant role in his transformation. Dylan shares how he initially connected with the church through friendships, particularly with JD, Michael, and Ben. His journey began with social interactions—working out at a park, attending backyard wrestling nights, and engaging with community members who welcomed him before he believed. Despite feeling out of place at first, he was drawn to the kindness, authenticity, and intentionality of the people around him.
Over time, Dylan’s curiosity about Christianity deepened. He was given a Bible and began reading the Gospel of Mark, leading to spiritual encounters that helped him recognize the presence of the Holy Spirit. Conversations with JD and others helped him process his experiences, and after a period of contemplation, he committed to following Jesus. The podcast highlights the power of organic, relational evangelism—how simply living life with gospel intentionality can impact someone’s faith journey. Dylan’s story reflects a patient, community-driven approach to discipleship, where love, curiosity, and personal conviction ultimately led him to embrace Christianity.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Well, this is Ben Kent and we are on the All Life
Podcast.
I am sitting here with Dylanand Michael and JD, and we are
going to have a conversationabout something really
remarkable that's happened inthe last few months, which is
Dylan came to know Jesus in anew and fresh way, and I wanted
to sit down with each of youbecause you all had played a
(00:37):
role in this process and, overthe course of a few years, in
God's work to draw Dylan tohimself, and so I'm honored to
sit here with each of you and Iget to essentially just ask the
questions and hear a little bitabout who you are and what's
been going on.
But let me just start off.
Jd, would you tell us aboutyourself and introduce yourself,
(00:58):
and we'll kind of go around toMichael and Dylan and then we'll
jump in.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, I'm delighted to be back.
So my name is JD Whithelm.
I've been at New City forcoming up on five years now.
The first Sunday I came to NewCity I was brought by a friend,
kyler.
We'd been roommates throughcollege and he'd known me for,
at that point, probably five orsix years and at the time I was
going to a different church,wanted some space from the heavy
(01:24):
theology of the PCA, wanted aplace where my heart was
actually engaged and we werehanging out.
One day and he said, jd, like Iknow you're kind of burned out
with the PCA, but you shouldreally come give New City a try.
Okay, fine, I'll try it.
So I showed up and immediatelythat first Sunday went yeah,
this is exactly where I want tobe.
No second doubt in my mind.
(01:45):
And then Tuesday that week wewent into lockdown and the
pandemic started.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
And so, a it's easy for me to remember the answer,
but also, b walking through thatprocess and seeing how New City
, both as leadership and as acongregation, handled that, made
me realize, yes, this is thebody I want to be a part of, and
there's been no looking backsince.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
So great, and JD made the comment that this is the
second podcast we've been onbecause we got to have this same
, very similar conversation withJason Wynn, who you were also
integral in him coming to knowJesus as well.
So I love that.
Michael, tell us a little bitabout you.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Yeah, my name is Michael Hample and I've been at
New City for about three years.
When my wife and I moved downto Orlando I met Trevor Houck
playing soccer and he told usabout New City and he was a
really cool new friend of mine.
So then we started coming toNew City and we've loved it and
been a part of it since.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
So good, dylan, we're going to take some more time to
unpack your answer, but we'dlove to hear just a brief intro
of who you are and how you findyourself here.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yeah, my name is Dylan Yost.
I've been living in Orlandosince 2021, and I started going
to New City in early 2023.
I think Ben was the firstperson that I met.
That was part of New City,working out at the park.
I met Michael kind of in thatsame time frame and we were
(03:17):
acquainted for a few monthsthroughout 2022, but it wasn't
until early 2023 when I actuallywent to New City for the first
time, and it was through meetingJD, who he was the one who
(03:38):
first pushed me to go and saidhey, you know, if you want, at
that time, you know, I I didn'tknow Jesus, um, wasn't going to
church at all, and JD was thefirst one that invited me to
come.
Um, that's where it all started.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
That's so helpful.
It frames the context, and sothe place that you and I met
Dylan was at Blue Jacket Parkand there's some pull-up bars
there.
They're bright orange and inour house they're affectionately
just called the bars, which isfunny because I will regularly
say, hey, alana, I'm going totake Augie to the bars, and if
you didn't have the context ofwhat that meant, it sounds a
(04:19):
little bit questionableparenting.
But for years I've just gonethere and you know, two or three
times a week to do a pull-upworkout or something like that.
I always bring my kids and andI get to meet the regulars and
Dylan, you've been one of theregulars there for a long time
too.
And.
I actually remembered thisrecently, which is you and I
(04:39):
when we first met and Iintroduced myself and, uh, I
think we just started talkingabout things.
You were potentially going togo into the military, and one of
the reasons why is because youwere interested in learning
leadership, and one of thethings I remember saying to you
was hey, have you ever read thebook of Exodus?
And I think you might've saidno, or something like that, and
I was like, well, it's a reallyinteresting book about
(05:01):
leadership.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
And I was preaching through I didn't know what it
was.
I didn't know what it was.
You didn't know what it was.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah.
And we were preaching throughthe book of Exodus at the time
it was in, probably the fall ofI don't know, 23 or 22 or
something like that, Probablythe fall of 22,.
Actually that would make sense,and um, and I was serious.
I mean, there's a lot of reallycool leadership principles in
the book of Exodus, but uh, Ialso there's.
It's also God's writtenrevelation of himself.
I knew that too, so so anyways,I'd be curious, do you, do you
(05:29):
recall that interaction?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Well, now that you mentioned yeah, I, I remember.
You know I didn't think of thatspecific instance of the
conversation, but you know Ijust got that, that memory
unlocked.
So yeah, I kind of do.
Yeah, that's so funny.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I don't know what it was for me too, but that's a
good way to put it.
The memory kind of got unlocked, and yeah.
And then Michael and I have hada regular pack practice of
going there, probably since youmoved here.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Yeah, more or less yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
And so you know, maybe every Monday or Wednesday
or Friday, something like that,we just have a pattern of
meeting up there doing a workout, and so then we ended up
meeting a lot of the same peopleand, uh, we're almost always
there around 5 PM.
Anybody can join if you guyswant to come, Um and.
And so, Michael, then you, thiswas around the same season when
you started hosting backyardwrestling nights, Tell us a
(06:19):
little bit about the theinception of that idea and where
it came from.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Yeah, that's a great question that I still don't
fully know.
I got randomly invited to a guyin Orlando's backyard fight
night where we did some boxingand wrestling.
But he only did it once a monthand I got addicted really
quickly and thought I could dothis with my friends.
So then I started inviting allmy friends and a lot of
strangers to come to Ward Park,which is a park by my house, to
(06:46):
go wrestle in the grass, so muchso that my wife would get mad
at me.
I would like meet a new personand be like hey, man, do you
want to come wrestle with metomorrow night?
And most people would say no.
Some of my friends said yes,because you guys are kind and
gracious, can.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
I interrupt here.
So I would be at Starbucks withMichael and he would meet
somebody who had a German accent, because Michael knows German,
and he would go talk to them inGerman and then, within a few
paragraphs of the conversation,invite them to come wrestle with
him.
That's a true story, so good.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Yeah, um, and Dylan was one of the first strangers
that actually took me up on theoffer and said, yeah, I'll come,
cause I think you introduced meto him at the bars.
You're like hey, this is myfriend, dylan.
So we talked a little bit and Iprobably invited you to wrestle
the next night and you showedup so good yeah yeah I, yeah, I
mean just to add some additionalcontext.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
I was right after I got back.
So I just to back up about themilitary thing.
Um, I went, I actually did goto navy ocs, but I dropped out,
just decided that I didn't wantit bad enough.
So I get back to orlando aroundthe new year 2023.
(08:00):
Um, you know, part of thereason why I was like, yeah, I'm
down to go is because I wasjust trying to meet new people.
At the time I didn't knowanyone in Orlando and I mean, I
knew you a little bit frombefore.
Uh, but I was like, you know,this is a good opportunity to to
(08:22):
go meet some, some new people.
So that's why I I was more moreopen to going.
Um, yeah, maybe I still wouldhave gone if I knew a bunch of
people already, you know.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
But right, that'd be less likely to maybe, yeah, I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
I don't know how how that would have turned out.
But yeah, I mean, I was goingthere mainly just to, yeah, try
to meet new people.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
And meet new people.
You did.
And in a very intimate way,when you're wrestling with some
other guy who probably alsodoesn't have a shirt on, and I
think that's where you met JDright.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
That's right.
Yeah, there's few firstintroductions, as rolling on the
ground with another dudeshirtless trying to pin each
other down, be like, hey, what's?
your name again.
But yeah, I think, ben, you'reresponsible for convincing me to
come the one time I did, and Ithink at the time we were
talking through some of myconflicted, complicated
(09:22):
relationship with God, and Ithink you challenged me out of
since we were going throughExodus or no, it was because of
conversation we'd had when we'dgone through Genesis about Jacob
wrestling with God and youpushed me of like, hey, you
should go do this thing.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
I did not know that.
I didn't know that either.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
That sounds like something former men would say
that's perfect.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Hey, read Exodus about leadership and you're
wrestling with God Come comewrestle with some other guys,
and so there was a huge part ofme was like I, this is just not
my cup of tea.
But there was also part of methat realized the only way you
grow is doing things outsideyour comfort zone.
I love it, and if you haven'tbeen willing to push yourself,
(10:01):
is it really worth it to say no?
So I was like okay, I mean, uh,dang it.
Okay, fine, then I'll I'll sayonce yes, so I show up and I
will say there's something veryunique, memorable, about getting
to wrestle your pastor and uh,I think we only wrestled for
(10:23):
three rounds.
I'm guessing you probably tookthe first one, I took the second
one, and so it's kind of oneand one third round.
Who's going to get it?
And unfortunately I can saythat I lost quite handily and
Ben took me to the mat.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
But it was a very memorable experience.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I was completely gassed.
I don't think I could wrestleanyone else for the rest of the
evening.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
I can't remember that .
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Yeah, it's so funny the the.
The slight advantage I had isthat I wrestled in middle school
and almost everybody else itwas their first experience.
It was backyard wrestling withMichael at ward park.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Right, but middle school, ben, he must've been a
fierce wrestler, cause you, youstill have the moves yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
He had something.
Okay, we're telling this storybecause this is kind of the
context of how you met all threeof us and, as you said, jd is
the one that actually invitedyou to come worship with New
City.
And one of the things I want topoint out is you said you know,
I was essentially looking forfriends.
I didn't have many friends inOrlando and one of the values we
(11:20):
have is that people are able tobelong before they believe.
Like.
It's important for you to beable to have this sense of like.
We know you, we care about you,we're for you, you, you're one
of us.
We were friends like.
All of that's real andauthentic and you don't believe
the same thing we do, and that'sokay, but that's not contingent
on our relationship or ourrelationship is not contingent
upon you believing what webelieve and simultaneously, we
(11:44):
really think that what webelieve is true and that's best
for you and it would be a goodthing to come to know Jesus.
So I'm curious, as you reflectback on that time and kind of
coming into the community of NewCity, what sticks out to you?
What do you recall from thatseason?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yeah, you know, at first, when I first started
going to to new city, I waspretty inconsistent.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I'm sure jd will will remember this um I mean a
little, yeah, you kept comingback.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Eventually I mattered I would yeah, I would usually
come, you know like maybe onceor twice a month or something
like that, and I felt honestlykind of, you know, uncomfortable
coming at first.
It was just, you know, I didn'tgrow up going to church a ton.
(12:36):
My mom's side of the family isCatholic, so I had a little bit
of experience with that, but mymom left the Catholic faith when
she was younger so I didn'treally grow up in it at all.
Growing up in Costa Rica neverwent to church.
I went to church a handful oftimes over the course of my 13
(13:00):
years there, whether it was justwith a friend or you know.
There was this girl that Iliked and I was going to her
church because I liked her, notbecause I was, you know, wanting
to go to church.
We've all been there.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I was going to say, power of pretty cool, get you to
go to church.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
So, yeah, you know, like I didn't have a ton of
experience and I I've, you know,I wasn't a believer, so I just
felt, felt kind of uncomfortable, but what kept me going was
just how, you know, everyone waswas just so, so friendly and so
positive.
Everyone just had a very, youknow, positive outlook on life
(13:42):
and, um, people were kind, werekind and and friendly and and
that that's really what you know, drew me in and you know I
would hang out with um, withfriends at New City, outside of
the church context sometimes and, uh, you know it, slowly I I
(14:03):
got to be more comfortablecoming after a while, I just
kind of got used to it.
But you know, it wasn't untilrecently, about two years later
basically, when I actually cameto faith.
So it was a gradual process.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
So helpful.
I love hearing that tensionwhich was, on one hand, there
were some things that wereuncomfortable about being in
that space.
On the other hand, there was aninvitation from the people.
The people is really, what hadyou coming back?
And when I try to get outsideof just what I experience on a
Sunday morning and think aboutit from the lens or the eyes of
(14:43):
an outsider, it's not a concert,but it's kind of got some
concert vibes.
It's not a TED Talk, but it'sgot some TED Talk vibes.
There's a point at whichsomebody gets up there and
breaks bread and pours wine intoa cup and says it's got
something to do with the bodyand blood of Jesus.
The songs we sing can be alittle bit weird sometimes.
There's all these foreignelements.
We have our own language.
(15:03):
We have our own language, wehave our own way of interacting,
all those kind of things.
So true.
What were the things that werethat made you uncomfortable on a
Sunday morning when you cameand worshipped?
All of the above?
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I mean, I think, yeah , so you know, church always
starts off with music, off withmusic.
And you know people in New Cityare are, you know they, they
get into the music and you knowthey, they start raising their
hands and you know, uh, I justwas like, oh, you know, it's
(15:41):
just, you know, to me initially,just kind of know to me
initially, it just kind of justfelt kind of strange like seeing
people getting so into it, youknow, and it just it was foreign
to me.
Obviously it doesn't soundstrange now, or to you guys, but
(16:02):
to me as as a as a new, as anewcomer, it was, you know, uh,
a little unusual.
So I guess you know it wasn'twhat I was used to seeing in
general society.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Um, do you remember how you made sense of that, like
what was the story you toldyourself about why people were
like getting super into thesesongs and raising their hands?
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Well, I mean, I just to me, you know, it looked like
you know people were, they werejust really they, they, they had
a genuine connection to God andthey weren't afraid to display
that.
You know, even for me now, as anew believer, I sometimes I, I
feel, you know, like, like I'mnot, you know, like I don't want
(16:56):
to just like put on this hugedisplay and put my hands up in
the air, I still feel you know alittle.
I wouldn't.
I'd still feel you know alittle, I wouldn't say
uncomfortable, but just uh, youknow, not as uh, I guess,
willing or free to just show mytrue emotions in a big public
(17:17):
space, which is kind of likewhat I when I see that.
I see people, they're, they'rejust, it's just them and God,
and they don't care about theway they look, they don't care
about them displaying their,their emotions, they're excited.
Yeah, let's put our arms up,you know.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
So I really admire that your your interpretation of
it, because when you're in aspace where you're uncomfortable
and something's confusing, um,it's easy to bring kind of to
overlay judgments on thosethings Like what are all these
like holy rollers doing?
You know like there's ways youcould have gone with that, but
the way that you went wasactually to give them the best
(17:59):
read on the situation, which waswow, these people like
genuinely feel to God andthey're expressing this out of a
place of sincerity and I reallyrespect that.
That was your interpretation ofwhat was going on and I think
that that's true, I think you'reaccurate.
But as an outsider coming in,there's a lot of different ways.
You could have stories youcould have told about what you
(18:20):
were witnessing in that moment.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Yeah, um no, but you know it.
just to me it just seemed like,like I said, people were uh,
they were just really, reallyinto it you know, for lack of a
better way to say it, um, andyou know, like I said to me, it
was, it was foreign.
And you know, like I said to me, it was foreign, it was strange
(18:45):
and it's just not somethingthat you see out in the normal
world.
So I'm trying to think of otherthings.
I think, you know, communion atthe end of church was always
uncomfortable for me because Ididn't go up.
It was, that was always.
(19:07):
You know, it was something Ialways, you know, didn't look
forward.
That moment where you have tolike just kind of excuse
yourself, uh, or just leteveryone walk past you.
And you know, I feel likepeople are looking at me, like
there's just one guy in thewhole church that's not going up
, you know, and like you knowthat you know, for better or
(19:33):
worse, you know, I was feelingthat that would make me feel
uncomfortable, you know, becausepeople just naturally want to
be a part of the pack.
So when you're outside of that,you feel, you know, that
outsider feeling adds anotherlayer of uncomfort.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
So that was probably the other aspect, but no, I'd
say those were probably the main, main two things.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
yeah, yeah, that sounds totally lonely to be like
.
Three to five hundred peopleare all getting up to go take
communion and you're one of thefew people sitting there, so
that that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
But as one of the people who would often be
sitting next to Dylan, becausemany times you would sit in my
row.
That was something I reallyrespected and admired about you
throughout the.
I guess it was about two yearsof kind of on and off attending
New City Once you understood whywe did communion and the fact
that this is a distinctly forbelievers sacrament.
(20:43):
You got that and you respectedit and you were like, yeah,
that's not me.
It was clear that at that pointyou were being drawn.
So there was this I want that,maybe could possibly be me, but
it's not me right now.
And so the fact that you hadthe consistency and the
integrity to say, yeah, I'mgoing to sit this one out and
(21:04):
kind of would use that window,as I guess I'll run to the
bathroom every week.
I really did admire that, whichalso made it to foreshadow
later part of the story a lotmore special.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Yeah, you have had that like consistent integrity,
like JD saying of I don't know.
I feel like it could have beeneasy for you and hanging out
with different people from newcity to try to like put on a
show like yeah, I'm reallyinterested in this.
Or like I to try to like put ona show like yeah, I'm really
interested in this.
Or like I'm going to become aChristian soon.
Just like please us, maybe, andtrying to fit in.
But I felt like the whole timeyou were just very honest about
where you were at with God andyour beliefs, even if it was
(21:37):
contrary to ours, but you werestill willing to be our friend
and willing to come hang out.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah it's really cool .
So one of the things that is, Iteach my son, I teach Augie
this, which is, uh, we don't goto church, we are the church and
uh, it's, it's one of the coolthings about your story.
It's like you, you came toworship with us on Sundays but
actually where you reallyexperienced the like entryway
(22:03):
into Christianity was throughthe church, the people of God.
So the event the Sunday morningworship gathering had some
things that if left alone, wouldhave been off-putting and even
maybe pushed you out.
But since we don't go to church, we are the church, you
actually felt really welcomed inby the church, the people of
God, and you were connected withone of the communities that you
(22:26):
show up to.
I'm curious what that was likeas you started building
relationships with some of thepeople of New City, um, what
that process was like and howthose developed and deepened
over time.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yeah, well, it was Michael Hample that invited me
to community, that got meplugged in there and, um, those
were good.
You know, I first started goingto those during my first year,
I think.
Again, I felt like it was justanother opportunity for me to go
(22:57):
and meet new people.
During those first few months Iwas just trying to meet as many
people as possible.
I would take the offer up onanyone that you know would
invite me to go do something.
So I would.
Yeah, I went to community.
(23:18):
It was Michael and Aaron thatwere hosting them at first.
I think you guys were, at leastduring my time.
You guys were the first hostsof, of that group and we would,
we would have them at your houseand, um, yeah, it was always,
you know, good time.
(23:38):
The first hour was spent eatingand then the second hour was,
you know, sort of, uh, you know,read the Bible and talk about
Jesus, go over some verses andum, again, you know, obviously,
as a non-believer, that secondhour was, it was always.
(23:58):
You know, I just felt kind ofout of place because you know
everyone's sitting down in acircle and reading the Bible.
I'm just kind of sitting thereon the side just observing,
basically not reallycontributing much of course, and
didn't have much to say.
(24:19):
I think every once in a while Iwould ask questions, but for
the most part I was just asilent observer for those.
But I kept going for a while.
It was initially it was just forthe social aspect, but then
(24:43):
eventually, you know, I startedto get more and more curious.
To get more and more curious.
The first thing I'd say thatgot me curious, and what I would
say was at the time is I'd liketo be a believer, but I can't
(25:03):
just wake up and start believingeverything, because I just saw
how everyone conductedthemselves.
I aspired to to be like thatand it just seemed like everyone
was living the good life.
To me, you know, um, you knowthat that was really kind of the
first drive forward, uh, butyou know, I was in that stage
(25:29):
for a while where I I was, youknow, wanting to believe, but I
couldn't just like say, yeah,I'm gonna just start believing
all this stuff.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
and you know, I remember that, yeah, like, it
like it seems really good whatyou guys all have going on here.
It seems really good to havethis belief.
But how do I force my brain tobelieve this or force my heart
to believe this.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, what were you seeing that was attractive?
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Mainly, people just seemed happy and positive.
You know, friendly andopen-minded.
You know that am friendly andand open-minded, you know, and,
uh, yeah, there was.
There was just some somethingabout, uh, the people in
(26:20):
community, the people at NewCity, that that I just felt I
felt drawn to them, felt I feltdrawn to them.
(26:42):
Um, you know, you try tocompare them to you know sort of
standard non-believer people.
Uh, I'd say the main thing theywould be more interested in in
you as a person, you know, um, Iremember, you know, early on,
(27:03):
when I was, whenever I wouldhave a conversation with, with
someone at new city I was atfirst, I was always thrown off
guard by the amount of questionsthey would ask me.
I've never had in the past,I've never had someone ask me so
many questions, and that was abig, a big unique factor.
(27:30):
People just seemed interestedin you.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
There's something cool about.
Cs.
Lewis says if you ever met agenuinely humble person, you
wouldn't be struck by theirhumility.
You would find that they werejust genuinely interested in you
.
And I just like I love thatthat was your experience.
Jesus says in John 13 that thelove that the Christian
(27:55):
community has, and then in John17, the unity that the Christian
community has, that those twothings, if they're there, they
will attract people to Jesus.
They will be signs, that kindof point beyond themselves that
Jesus must be legit and so it'sso.
It's super encouraging to me.
It's called the communityapologetic.
So like you couldn't, maybe youcouldn't get there rationally,
(28:18):
like how do I believe in thisstuff?
Rationally, like I don't knowhow to get there.
But there was somethinghappening at maybe a heart level
where it was.
You kind of wanted it to betrue which.
I think, is maybe one of thefirst dominoes to fall for
somebody to come to know Jesus.
It actually this looksdesirable.
Not only believable, butdesirable.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I remember a conversation we had at some
point during this window whereyou were commenting on one of
the things that was a little oddor different about the people
you were building a relationshipwith at New City, versus
friends you'd had for years whoweren't believers, and it was so
funny to me the way you put it.
You said, man, y'all are reallyaffectionate, you hug each
(28:58):
other a lot, and it kind of tookyou off guard a bit, and yet it
was also clear there wassomething about that that you
found really admirable anddesirable and it was really
amusing and also encouraging forme to hear you say that,
because, yeah, that's what wewant it to be, because of what,
ben, you just said that's sogood.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yeah, some of these things I'm hearing for the first
time too, which is cool.
I love hearing the story puttogether there's another time
we're at our community.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
we did the potluck meal.
Then afterwards, I think wewere just like praying for each
other, just like sharing updateson what's going on in life,
what's good, what's bad, andpraying for each other, and we
kind of all went around and wegot to you, dylan, and I think
you didn't want to share, butyou were like you guys are the
most vulnerable people I've evermet, because everyone was just
sharing their like deepest anddarkest stuff going on and hard
(29:47):
stuff and I don't rememberexactly what you said, but it
was something along the lines ofyeah, basically that no one in
the world does this, except forChristians.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yes, yeah, yeah, it was totally.
It just felt, you know, totallyforeign to me.
I have never experienced thatyou know in other social groups.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah, it really is.
You use the word foreign thereand I think that's the right
word.
So many of these things wereforeign.
They were strange even to thepoint of uncomfortable or
confusing.
And it wasn't actually in thedownplaying of the strangeness,
it was actually in thefull-proof strangeness that over
(30:26):
time that was actually what wasattractive.
And I just think about that likeif the gospel is true, then the
worst thing that could possiblybe said about me was that the
Son of God had to die on a crossto make me right with God.
So what could I possibly tellyou guys about me?
That's worse than that.
Therefore, I'm freed up to behonest and be vulnerable.
So like the gospel actuallychanges a people, it creates a
(30:50):
community built like that's bornof the gospel and kind of
oriented around the gospel.
That is ought to be utterlycontrasted with any other social
gathering that you might findyourself in.
So I just I'm more or lesshighlighting that to say like
that's cool, like it's actuallyworking the thing.
That's actually doing the thing.
Michael, when did you buy Dylana Bible in this process?
Speaker 4 (31:15):
To be fair, I didn't buy it for Dylan.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
When did you give Dylan a Bible?
I?
Speaker 4 (31:19):
think this Bible was for free from somewhere that I
grabbed A Hilton hotel room.
The Bible itself looks like itcame from a Hilton hotel room
it's pretty old school, it's oldschool scratched out hilton to
put hample on it, the hamplehotel um, I don't know exactly
when, but I do remember it beingvery late in the game of
(31:42):
knowing dylan.
I think you came over to dinnerone night with me and Aaron,
and we were talking, saidsomething about the Bible and
then I realized I'm like, dylan,do you have a Bible?
And you said no and I was like,oh man, we've known Dylan for
probably like a year and a halftwo years at this point and
never offered you a Bible.
So that felt like a big shameon me, but I was like, oh, let
(32:04):
me grab you one.
So I gave you one that night, Ibelieve.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Yeah, I think that was the summer of last year, it
was like.
July or August or somethingyeah.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
And how did you receive that?
I mean, you've been in theseBible studies when people are
like sitting around and talkingabout the book and now
somebody's trying to give youthe book.
What is that like for you inthat moment?
Do you remember?
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Yeah, we're trying to give you the book.
What is that like for you inthat moment, do you remember?
Yeah, I was at first.
I was thinking, you know, thisis cool, I'm probably not gonna
read it for a while and part ofthat was because I was studying
for this test at the time.
So that was kind of taking up alot of my mental energy.
But you know, yeah, I wasthinking that's cool, cool,
maybe I'll open it up one day.
But I didn't have any intentionto open it up as soon as I got
home that night.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
You were studying pretty hardcore right for these
tests, for work you work all dayand then go home maybe do a
quick workout and then study therest of the night.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Pretty much and for the bulk of the time that we
were friends, this was kind ofthe regular cadence the night
pretty much, and for the bulk ofthe time that we were friends
this was kind of regular cadencerhythm of your life and so the
fact that, yeah, it's true thatthere would be, like you said,
months where you'd be at newcity once, maybe twice, but
there was still in amongst thisvery demanding schedule, there
was still something about thisspace of these people that you
(33:28):
found, yeah, this is, this isworth it for me to pursue, even
in the midst of juggling allthis other stuff 100 yeah dylan
was just real quick.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
Dylan was the most faithful member of our community
for at least a year, like morefaithful than me when I was
leading the community, like Ithink, I missed more of the
meetings
Speaker 3 (33:46):
than he did, which is saying something.
I think think Dylan led most ofthem.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
I don't believe any of this yet, but let me teach
you.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
I actually think that's true for worship too.
Like after, maybe, the early onpoint that you talked to about
with JD, I saw you almost everySunday and there was just this
commitment Like this.
This became a staple of yourlife rhythm, which was
worshiping on Sundays andcommunity on whatever day of the
week it was.
But, there's just something coolabout that that you were in
(34:15):
that space.
So I remember having aconversation with you over lunch
and I think it was like hey,you know, you've been around us,
you've been seeing this thing,like what are your thoughts?
And you're like you shared someof the things you shared, um,
and I was like what do you thinkabout God?
Like where?
And I this is my language, notyours but there was just kind of
(34:36):
this general eh, it's just likeirrelevant to me right now.
Um, and I think I invited youto read mere Christianity with
me by CS Lewis, and you werelike no, that's okay Back were
like no, that's okay.
Back to his honesty, yeah it wasgreat, and you were just like
no, I'm good, I got these testsI'm studying for.
You were like I just don't havetime to read a book right now.
(34:56):
I was like okay, that's fine,and so that was like part of the
conversation.
When did the momentum shiftkind of in favor of exploring
the faith?
Speaker 3 (35:06):
of exploring the faith.
I'd say it really started afterI finished studying Last year.
I took the test I think it wasin August and then there was
like the six-week waiting periodwhere I was waiting to hear
(35:28):
back from the test, people tohear if I passed.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
And you were stressed out, man.
Oh, yeah, yeah I was yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
So it was really after I finished studying, but
especially after I knew that Ipassed.
That's really when it happened,and I remember that shift
happened when I was over at jd'splace and we were on the back
(35:55):
porch just having a conversationgreat conversation, you know
long I talk a lot guys yeah, umand yeah, throughout my time
there were several people thatwent up to me and said hey, you
(36:17):
know you want to read the Bibletogether.
You should start reading theBible declined at first.
It wasn't until that night whenJD I think it was the gospel
Mark JD was like, hey, youshould.
I think, out of all the gospels, I think Mark is the one that
(36:40):
you would.
That's what JD told me.
Mark is the one that you know,you, I think would resonate the
most with you, or or one of them.
Um, so I started there and, andthat's really like when my
curiosity, uh, like reallystarted to take precedence and I
(37:01):
that's when I started readingit.
I didn't have to worry aboutthe test or or studying, and, um
, you know that that's when theactual process of coming to
faith started, pretty much rightthen I remember I went on this
trip to Costa Rica for a fewdays or a week or something, and
(37:25):
I read a little bit of itbefore going on the trip.
I went on the trip, kind offorgot about it, and then when I
came back, I started reading itmore seriously.
Um, you know, jd was like, yeah, just just read it.
And now let me know what youthink.
And and we met up again and, um, it was when I got back and I
(37:50):
was reading it that second timearound, when I kind of had my
first moment, or encounter, youcould say, with the Holy Spirit,
and I remember telling JD aboutit.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Would you tell us about it now?
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Yeah, absolutely it.
And yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I just I was, when I wasreading it one night I was
before I picked it up I was justfeeling anxious about something
and I don't know.
A few minutes into reading it,I just felt like the that like
feeling of anxiety, you know.
(38:28):
Those butterflies in yourstomach just immediately went
away and yeah, I've never reallyfelt that before.
And that was kind of like myfirst moment where I was like,
oh you know, maybe there'ssomething to this.
Wow Moments like that.
(38:52):
You know, encounters with theHoly Spirit started happening
more frequently after that.
I remember JD telling me youknow, it sounds like the Holy
Spirit is wooing you in.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
What a good language.
And it was when you're readingthe scriptures.
So you'd open the Gospel of Mark, you'd be reading and you'd get
this sense which, for therecord, john Wesley, who's a
well-known Christian, hedescribed it as his heart was
strangely warmed.
I just love that language.
He didn't really know what elseto say about it other than my
(39:33):
heart was strangely warmed.
But there is this experientialdimension of the Holy Spirit at
work.
That doesn't always happen,isn't always there, but when it
is there, there's something thathe's doing.
And I hear you saying like ohwow, I'm experiencing something
that I've never experiencedbefore while reading the
scriptures.
Or I'm even thinking now aboutLuke 24, when they're walking on
(39:55):
the road to Emmaus and theysaid did not our hearts burn
within us as he opened up thescriptures to us?
Like, in other words, yourexperience has both biblical and
historical precedent.
Like this is something the HolySpirit does, accompanying with
the Word of God.
The Spirit of God comes to tobring that kind of encounter.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
I love that language and this part of the story was
super exciting for me becauseDylan, I had first met that one
and only night at backyardwrestling and I could tell, like
he's new, he doesn't knowanyone.
This has kind of been trainedinto me from years of college
ministry and so struck up aconversation.
We talked for goodness I thinkit was probably like two and a
(40:35):
half hours.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
We were there so late that the lights had like it had
gone dark.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
They turned off the lights Like we needed to leave
the park because it was closing.
Speaker 4 (40:41):
No way.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
And like it was a great conversation.
And from that very firstconversation I just had this
like deep sense.
I feel like god's wooing andafter this guy.
But having seen this play outat least once now with jason and
potentially with another friendwho's earlier in this process,
the hardest thing has beenrealizing it is never on my
(41:03):
timetable yeah, wow and so goingokay, this, this is probably
gonna be a long, long hauljourney.
So by the time we fast forwardto this point in the story where
dylan's passed the test andreally you were, kind of it felt
alive again the way you hadn'tbeen before, because you
actually had mental andemotional bandwidth and this
time where it's like oh, I feelalive again and so we were able
(41:25):
to spend more time together and,as he's sharing these not just
moments, but also even beforethe moments, this actual
curiosity in me, there was anawakened excitement of oh okay,
it's happening.
And so then it became the danceof what does it look like to
faithfully like, encourage thisprocess and kind of fan that
(41:47):
flame, but also remembering Ican't change his heart, I can't
actually bring him to faith.
It has to be the Holy Spirit,and then kind of waiting and
seeing.
So is this like another year?
Is this two more months?
Like what?
What's the timeline gonna be?
But that moment on that backporch like hang out talking.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Yes, good yeah was like.
Yes, here it is, that's so good.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah, I mean to that point the Word of God, the
people of God and the Spirit ofGod kind of coming into
alignment is you can tell thehand of God is usually at work
when that happens and that'sclearly evident in the story, at
least up to this point.
So that was like October 24,right?
Speaker 3 (42:28):
October 2024?
.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
So tell us from there , kind of how did you find
yourself to coming to the pointwhere you were like I think I'm
ready, From, as Michael said,like hey, this looks cool, but I
don't really know how to getthere, To where you were like I
think I'm ready.
What was that process like?
Speaker 3 (42:52):
I'm ready.
What was that process like,yeah, I'd say, you know, it took
about maybe two or three weeksfrom like that first moment
where I, you know, I felt like Ihad the encounter with the Holy
Spirit, um, and, and like I wassaying it, I kept having those
those moments, but it took mekind of a little bit to, you
know, was trying to I didn'tknow what to make of it.
(43:14):
I was trying to figure out,okay is, is this, is this real,
you know?
Am I just like imagining things?
Is it a placebo or whatever?
Um, but it kept happeningpretty frequently during that
period, during those two weeks,and, you know, after happening
(43:36):
enough times, eventually I just,you know, I was like, yeah,
this is real.
And it was kind of around thattime when I went up to you after
church and told you about theexperience I was having.
I would say I remember thatsame day I was at lunch with JD
(44:04):
and our group of friends and Iwas telling him I feel like I'm
95% there.
There was just like a littlebit of, you know, I just wanted
to like, make sure, beforemaking the like, the official
(44:26):
commitment that I, you know,because to me, the commitment
under, you know, false pretensesyou could say, and I just, you
know, wanted to be sure of thedecision that I was making.
(44:47):
So I was a little bit hesitantfor a few days and really during
those it was probably about twoweeks, you know, and you know,
I was like especially thinking,coming from a non-faith
background, a non-believer, allof this was just really new to
(45:09):
me and I just I didn't know whatto make of it and I was, I was
going back and forth a lot and,you know, trying to figure out,
if you know, if, if it wasactually happening and, um, yeah
, it, it wasn't like therewasn't some dark line in the
(45:30):
sand where I was like, okay,here, 5 o'clock on Saturday
October 15th, I'm not a believerand then 6 o'clock that same
day, okay, I'm a believer.
Now it wasn't like that, wasn'tlike that it was.
There were, like I keep saying,you know, there were a lot of
(45:51):
these little experiences I washaving, encounters with the Holy
Spirit.
It was a cumulative effect ofall those experiences that
eventually led me to theultimate commitment.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
And I think that's one of the reasons throughout
the entirety of our friendshipit has been a real friendship
Because, again, this issomething about Dylan that I've
admired so much is from theoutset you've been super clear
about.
Hey, I don't want to just jumpin on this thing out of
bandwagoning or trying to fit in.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
If.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
I'm going to commit to this it's because I'm all in
and A I just really enjoy beingaround people like that.
I think people who are fullycommitted are the most
interesting and engaging people.
But then also it actually madeit really fun and enjoyable to
go through that long waitingprocess of how is the Holy
Spirit going to do this, becausethere was never the question of
(46:52):
well, is he just saying this toappease me?
No, like he was beingcompletely upfront.
These are my hesitancies.
These are where I'm feelingdrawn, and so I remember that
conversation where you'restanding in line to order food
and on the inside I'm fistpumping like oh, he's so close.
But at the same time I wasactually more excited about the
fact that you were sointentional of.
I want to make sure I reallymean this and I'm not just
(47:15):
following purely emotion or justsomething I've kind of tricked
myself into, like I want it tobe real and I'm owning it and
I've really respected that.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
The whole time through.
Appreciate it now yeah, youroutsides and your insides would
match right like that, that youreally do believe this and not
just speak and act as if you do.
So, from my vantage point.
So you come up to me after aservice on a Sunday and this is
my summary.
I don't think either of us saidthis, but there was some
(47:44):
version of like I think I'mready to take whatever the next
step is towards God, kind of athing.
And so we sat down and I readRomans 10, nine and 10 to you
about if you believe in yourheart, uh, that God raised him
from the dead, and confess withyour mouth that Jesus is Lord,
you will be saved, right, I readthat and I was like, hey, do
you believe this?
Like do you think Jesus reallyis alive from the dead and do
you, are you willing to hisforgiveness and his life for his
(48:07):
death, for your life, thosekinds of things?
And you were like, yeah, I do.
So we prayed together.
And then you go to lunch andyou're like I'm 95% there.
And then you and I had ameeting that Wednesday, um, at
black bean deli.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
And we, we talked more than um when, as you said,
you don't know when that likemoment was, but you can look
back and say, oh yeah, I came tofaith.
When did that happen, when youcould look back and go, uh, or
when did you have therealization of like, oh, I think
, whatever that 5% is, like I, Idid that, I crossed that.
Speaker 3 (48:41):
Yeah.
The remaining 5%, I would say,looking back now happened that
night, that Wednesday, when,when we had that meeting and I
don't think I realized it 100%at the time, but looking back it
was probably just a few daysafter that where I was like,
(49:01):
yeah, if I had to draw that linein the sand, that's probably
where it happened- so cool andone of the things I think is so
significant is, uh, we just readthe Luke 15, the prodigal son,
and just talked about that storyof what it means to come home
to the father, and then, uh, andthen briefly talked about the
(49:22):
four soils, how Jesus talksabout the, the, the seed is sown
.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
Some fall on this kind of ground, this kind of
ground, this kind of ground, andthen there's some that fall on
good soil and actually take rootand bear fruit.
And that was, that was most ofour conversation, do you recall?
Speaker 3 (49:40):
anything else from that conversation that that
maybe lingered?
Um, I don't think so.
I mean, you know, I, I the thekey messages stuck with me.
You know and I was just talkingabout that one parable I forget
exactly what it was calledabout planting good seeds
(50:03):
yesterday with Trey, who'sdiscipling me now, and I think
it was such a great verse or nota verse, a section of the Bible
, to go over as a new believerbecause it's all about laying
(50:29):
those good roots.
Now, I wouldn't say there wasanything else beyond those core
messages that stuck with me andI've got to keep reminding
myself of them all the time, ofthem all the time, about, you
(50:50):
know, laying those good rootsand then about the parable of
the lost son.
I mean, the key with thatthinking back now, is just that,
you know, to me it was, youknow, it's interesting to see
(51:10):
from you know, christianperspective, that you can kind
of go out and do all these badthings, um, but you know, as
long as you, you know, afterrealizing, oh, I did all all
these bad things, and you know,you realizing, oh, I did all
(51:31):
these bad things, and you know,you come to that realization and
come back to your father, youknow, and say, oh, I'm sorry, I
messed up, I did all thesethings.
In that story the father wascompassionate, despite the
(51:52):
shortcomings that he had.
You know, a lot of times, sortof, in the secular world,
there's just not thatforgiveness there, you know.
So that stuck out to me andit's just a comforting feeling,
(52:17):
you know, knowing that, um, youknow, obviously we're not
perfect, we're going to mess up,but uh, you know it, it's just
despite all that, you know, godstill loves us.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
So good.
Speaker 3 (52:35):
Oh I love that.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
Okay, so, as we close out this conversation, Real
quick.
Speaker 4 (52:40):
Which Black Bean Deli was that at?
Speaker 1 (52:42):
Colonial.
Yeah, Okay cool, yeah, theoriginal, I think so good.
Well, I would love to, I'd loveto hear, kind of since then
that was in November what tellus what that's been like?
So you've been you know.
So, let's say, november,december, january, february.
Now, what's it been likefollowing Jesus?
(53:04):
What's it been like with thisnewfound faith?
You mentioned, trey, somebodywho's been discipling you.
I know JD's had a role in thattoo.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
Tell us a little bit about that.
Yeah, trey, jd and Michael haveall been doing a great job at
discipling me.
I'm very grateful.
I'm grateful for the peoplearound me.
The community's been great andI noticed when I go away for a
time I've been on two tripssince coming to faith Whenever I
(53:34):
go away, I miss the community,I miss, you know, going to
church and being around everyoneat New City and it's just been,
yeah, really great experience.
Great people just been, yeah,really really great experience.
(53:56):
Great people.
Um, um, you know, um, as, as weall are, of course, I'm trying
to put God above everything else.
You know I, we all have, uh,you know me coming from from a
non-faithith backgroundespecially but we all have our
idols and you know I'm workingto put those idols lower on the
(54:21):
priority list and put God andJesus in that number one spot.
And you know that's what itlooks like for me now.
That's where I, I, I see theimportance of my time being
spent and sort of my, mythinking to go into into that.
(54:46):
And you know, being in that,being in community has been very
helpful, very grateful for it.
Reading the Bible, praying,those are all things that bring
me closer to God.
Of course, we get drawn and Iget drawn to other things still
(55:12):
all the time, you know.
But you know, going tocorporate worship on Sunday and
community, it's that anchor thatbrings me back.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
It's just so encouraging, I love hearing this
story.
Speaker 4 (55:29):
I could sit and listen to you all day long talk
about these things well, because, like just rewinding a year or
two years ago, we never wouldhave had this conversation with
you.
That's right yeah, these weren'tthings you wanted to talk about
these weren't things that wereactually happening in your life,
and it did like it felt so slowthe past couple years like your
progression in faith, I guessbut then all of a sudden it just
(55:49):
happened real quick at the sametime.
So sometimes I'll do that.
I'm like, wow, the way Dylan istalking right now about how the
Holy Spirit's working in hisheart and like wanting to choose
God over these idols.
I'm just like this is not theDylan I knew five months ago.
So it's really refreshing manReally fun.
Speaker 2 (56:06):
And one thing that's been rewarding and interesting
in our process of me being oneof the guys who's discipling you
is, I can remember back throughcollege and high school, some
of the men who helped discipleme and I would say broadly, it
seems like there's kind of twoschools of thought or approaches
to discipleship.
(56:26):
One is a very kind ofstructured, kind of
curriculum-oriented, walkingthrough.
It's more theology,fundamentals, and the other is
more just kind of relationalmentoring.
What's relevant in life rightnow?
And I think there's reallyvalue in both.
And for me though I know that Ioften found that first one to
(56:50):
feel a little rigid and therewould be something relevant in
my life that I'd want to engagewith with the person who's
discipling me, but it felt likewe couldn't get to it.
And what's been interesting andcool is something Dylan and I
have noticed is in his time withTrey.
That's more the structured,almost like working through
theological fundamentals, andthen Dylan and mine's time
(57:12):
together really is more of that,just relational mentoring.
Where are you at in life rightnow?
And I'm reminded of one of themen who discipled me in college.
He had this really incredibleway of whatever we were talking
about, he would find the gospelthrough thread and draw it back
in.
But he didn't feel ham-fisted.
It was almost this ability tosee what's the deeper element of
(57:33):
where god's at play here, orwhere this aspect of culture is
showing, like our sinful heartslonging for what is true and
good and us veering off to theside.
And so we get together, usuallysunday afternoons, make a meal
together common rhythm.
I often feel like I'mlackluster at it, but we do this
one consistently.
Speaker 4 (57:54):
Did you point at Ben?
I did, okay, I thought you werepointing at something on the
wall.
No, no.
Speaker 2 (57:58):
He's always hounding common rhythm, common rhythm for
a common love.
And the other piece, though, isit's really remarkable how, in
that space of sharing a mealtogether and just talking about
life, it's really remarkable how, in that space of sharing a
meal together and just talkingabout life, every time we really
do end up digging into apassage pretty extensively, in
an exegetical way, going through.
(58:19):
Here's what's actually beingsaid and this is how this
applies to life.
Here and I'll end with thisSunday you were preaching the
beginning of Hebrews.
The passage you referenced inRevelation at the end had come
up in conversation, completelyunrelated, saturday, when we
were together and we hadliterally read and discussed
(58:40):
that passage, and then, maybe 12hours later, you're referencing
it in a sermon, and it's justcool to see how the spirit is
weaving this tapestry that wejust see the back side of that's
great, and that wasn't the onlytime it happened to me.
Speaker 3 (58:52):
It happened to me one other time, yeah, when you were
preaching on leviticus, I thinkback in in november, during
that that time period that youknow it.
Just it was.
I felt like it was directlytargeting something that was
going on in my life at thatpoint.
Speaker 1 (59:12):
Yeah, wow, I love that.
The language of the Holy Spiritis weaving a tapestry and what
we just got to do together overthe last hour or so in this
conversation is basically lookat the backside of that tapestry
and trace some of those threads.
And there's countless more thatwe won't know until we're with
Jesus and he's looking andtelling us the story, you know.
(59:33):
But just even as we close, likeI want to honor both of you,
Michael and JD, and for yourintentionality, Like I really
think how this whole thing worksis living everyday life with
gospel intentionality.
It's not adding a new thing.
I mean, we were just working outor doing something that you
wanted to do anyways, or eatinga dinner on Saturday, or you
(59:55):
know, it's just like but you'redoing it with a gospel
intentionality that there'speople around here that don't
know Jesus that would bewelcomed into a community that
would love them well andgenuinely be interested in them,
and so just the intentionalityof that, I think, is a
significant like just takeawayfor anybody that might listen to
this and say, oh, I couldinvite somebody to this thing, I
(01:00:15):
could invite somebody to readthe Bible, I could invite you.
Know, it's like there's justthese invitations over two years
, but that kind of add up in theHoly Spirit's math somehow, to
Dylan sitting here telling usabout how the story of the
prodigal son is good newsbecause we all fail and we can
come home to a father withcompassion.
Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
It's like yes and amen, what a beautiful thing and
something that for anyone inthe audience who's listening,
because if I was to be on theother side of this four years
ago I probably would have had avery different perspective.
The church I grew up in it wasvery big emphasis on kind of an
EE model of evangelism, alsolike door-to-door salesman, and
(01:00:55):
I remember like in high schoolthere was this big emphasis on
are you bringing a friend fromschool?
into youth group it was thisvery go get them tiger mindset,
very performative and,unsurprisingly, I never saw any
fruit from my own attempts atthat.
But just within our church andcommunity in general fast
(01:01:18):
forward.
I moved to college, Iexperienced ruf and that's the
first time I encountered thisintentionality of oh, the gospel
is actually big enough toengage in life in all of the
ordinary spaces, not just theSunday safe ones.
But in this experience it'snever been this formalized
(01:01:40):
go-get-em and I think whatreally shifted for me a few
years ago and I'm curious,michael, because you've also, I
think, had something like thiswas realizing I can't actually
change anybody's heart and whenI try to, I basically get in the
way because I make it about me.
And the interesting thing is, inthe whole 27 years, 28 years
(01:02:02):
I've known the Lord.
I've only seen two people cometo faith, both of those since
being a new city and both ofthose in this same way of just
intentional lived life over manyyears, without any of this
formalized, performativeapproach that can be so easily
pushed, as that's whatevangelism is yeah, that's cool
(01:02:22):
man.
Speaker 4 (01:02:23):
It also reminds me of I know a guy who says that
evangelism is a team sport andjust like, oh, oh, this is our,
our little team right here.
I mean all four of us now.
And it was like God used eachof us in a very distinct and
clear way, with our own lifestage and capacity.
Like Ben with his kids probablycan't hang out on Sunday nights
, but JD can.
And then Dylan was a part ofour community and JD wasn't
(01:02:45):
wrestling and working out allthe time, but sometimes, um,
that was where I could do moreof that, um.
So God used, like our differentgiftings and life stages, to
pursue Dylan and love and togive us friendship with him.
Um and.
I just think it's.
It's so cool to like do it as acommunity.
Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Yeah, so was it.
Well, and Dylan, we want tohonor you for your uh I put the
word integrity on it earlier.
I think that's a fine word forit but just your willingness to
be who you are and to not haveto feel this pressure to conform
to some mold, that actually itwas really helpful, it was
really refreshing.
Alana will say this that it'shard to tell me no.
(01:03:21):
And you had no problem tellingme no you were just like.
I'm not going to read that bookwith you.
I really admire that and I'm sothankful for it.
Maybe lastly, just to honor theLord.
I love the fact that Jesusloved you enough to die for you
and to call you to himself andto use whatever means he needed
(01:03:41):
to to pull that off.
But, as JD said a little bitago, there was this real sense
of like oh God's after you inall the best ways and we get to
honor him.
Well, this is Ben Kent and we are on the All Life
Podcast.
I am sitting here with Dylanand Michael and JD, and we are
going to have a conversationabout something really
remarkable that's happened inthe last few months, which is
Dylan came to know Jesus in anew and fresh way, and I wanted
to sit down with each of youbecause you all had played a
(00:37):
role in this process and, overthe course of a few years, in
God's work to draw Dylan tohimself, and so I'm honored to
sit here with each of you and Iget to essentially just ask the
questions and hear a little bitabout who you are and what's
been going on.
But let me just start off.
Jd, would you tell us aboutyourself and introduce yourself,
(00:58):
and we'll kind of go around toMichael and Dylan and then we'll
jump in.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Yeah, I'm delighted to be back.
So my name is JD Whithelm.
I've been at New City forcoming up on five years now.
The first Sunday I came to NewCity I was brought by a friend,
kyler.
We'd been roommates throughcollege and he'd known me for,
at that point, probably five orsix years and at the time I was
going to a different church,wanted some space from the heavy
(01:24):
theology of the PCA, wanted aplace where my heart was
actually engaged and we werehanging out.
One day and he said, jd, like Iknow you're kind of burned out
with the PCA, but you shouldreally come give New City a try.
Okay, fine, I'll try it.
So I showed up and immediatelythat first Sunday went yeah,
this is exactly where I want tobe.
No second doubt in my mind.
(01:45):
And then Tuesday that week wewent into lockdown and the
pandemic started.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
And so, a it's easy for me to remember the answer,
but also, b walking through thatprocess and seeing how New City
, both as leadership and as acongregation, handled that, made
me realize, yes, this is thebody I want to be a part of, and
there's been no looking backsince.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
So great, and JD made the comment that this is the
second podcast we've been onbecause we got to have this same
, very similar conversation withJason Wynn, who you were also
integral in him coming to knowJesus as well.
So I love that.
Michael, tell us a little bitabout you.
Speaker 4 (02:21):
Yeah, my name is Michael Hample and I've been at
New City for about three years.
When my wife and I moved downto Orlando I met Trevor Houck
playing soccer and he told usabout New City and he was a
really cool new friend of mine.
So then we started coming toNew City and we've loved it and
been a part of it since.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
So good, dylan, we're going to take some more time to
unpack your answer, but we'dlove to hear just a brief intro
of who you are and how you findyourself here.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
Yeah, my name is Dylan Yost.
I've been living in Orlandosince 2021, and I started going
to New City in early 2023.
I think Ben was the firstperson that I met.
That was part of New City,working out at the park.
I met Michael kind of in thatsame time frame and we were
(03:17):
acquainted for a few monthsthroughout 2022, but it wasn't
until early 2023 when I actuallywent to New City for the first
time, and it was through meetingJD, who he was the one who
(03:38):
first pushed me to go and saidhey, you know, if you want, at
that time, you know, I I didn'tknow Jesus, um, wasn't going to
church at all, and JD was thefirst one that invited me to
come.
Um, that's where it all started.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
That's so helpful.
It frames the context, and sothe place that you and I met
Dylan was at Blue Jacket Parkand there's some pull-up bars
there.
They're bright orange and inour house they're affectionately
just called the bars, which isfunny because I will regularly
say, hey, alana, I'm going totake Augie to the bars, and if
you didn't have the context ofwhat that meant, it sounds a
(04:19):
little bit questionableparenting.
But for years I've just gonethere and you know, two or three
times a week to do a pull-upworkout or something like that.
I always bring my kids and andI get to meet the regulars and
Dylan, you've been one of theregulars there for a long time
too.
And.
I actually remembered thisrecently, which is you and I
(04:39):
when we first met and Iintroduced myself and, uh, I
think we just started talkingabout things.
You were potentially going togo into the military, and one of
the reasons why is because youwere interested in learning
leadership, and one of thethings I remember saying to you
was hey, have you ever read thebook of Exodus?
And I think you might've saidno, or something like that, and
I was like, well, it's a reallyinteresting book about
(05:01):
leadership.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
And I was preaching through I didn't know what it
was.
I didn't know what it was.
You didn't know what it was.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah.
And we were preaching throughthe book of Exodus at the time
it was in, probably the fall ofI don't know, 23 or 22 or
something like that, Probablythe fall of 22,.
Actually that would make sense,and um, and I was serious.
I mean, there's a lot of reallycool leadership principles in
the book of Exodus, but uh, Ialso there's.
It's also God's writtenrevelation of himself.
I knew that too, so so anyways,I'd be curious, do you, do you
(05:29):
recall that interaction?
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Well, now that you mentioned yeah, I, I remember.
You know I didn't think of thatspecific instance of the
conversation, but you know Ijust got that, that memory
unlocked.
So yeah, I kind of do.
Yeah, that's so funny.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I don't know what it was for me too, but that's a
good way to put it.
The memory kind of got unlocked, and yeah.
And then Michael and I have hada regular pack practice of
going there, probably since youmoved here.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Yeah, more or less yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
And so you know, maybe every Monday or Wednesday
or Friday, something like that,we just have a pattern of
meeting up there doing a workout, and so then we ended up
meeting a lot of the same peopleand, uh, we're almost always
there around 5 PM.
Anybody can join if you guyswant to come, Um and.
And so, Michael, then you, thiswas around the same season when
you started hosting backyardwrestling nights, Tell us a
(06:19):
little bit about the theinception of that idea and where
it came from.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
Yeah, that's a great question that I still don't
fully know.
I got randomly invited to a guyin Orlando's backyard fight
night where we did some boxingand wrestling.
But he only did it once a monthand I got addicted really
quickly and thought I could dothis with my friends.
So then I started inviting allmy friends and a lot of
strangers to come to Ward Park,which is a park by my house, to
(06:46):
go wrestle in the grass, so muchso that my wife would get mad
at me.
I would like meet a new personand be like hey, man, do you
want to come wrestle with metomorrow night?
And most people would say no.
Some of my friends said yes,because you guys are kind and
gracious, can.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
I interrupt here.
So I would be at Starbucks withMichael and he would meet
somebody who had a German accent, because Michael knows German,
and he would go talk to them inGerman and then, within a few
paragraphs of the conversation,invite them to come wrestle with
him.
That's a true story, so good.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
Yeah, um, and Dylan was one of the first strangers
that actually took me up on theoffer and said, yeah, I'll come,
cause I think you introduced meto him at the bars.
You're like hey, this is myfriend, dylan.
So we talked a little bit and Iprobably invited you to wrestle
the next night and you showedup so good yeah yeah I, yeah, I
mean just to add some additionalcontext.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
I was right after I got back.
So I just to back up about themilitary thing.
Um, I went, I actually did goto navy ocs, but I dropped out,
just decided that I didn't wantit bad enough.
So I get back to orlando aroundthe new year 2023.
(08:00):
Um, you know, part of thereason why I was like, yeah, I'm
down to go is because I wasjust trying to meet new people.
At the time I didn't knowanyone in Orlando and I mean, I
knew you a little bit frombefore.
Uh, but I was like, you know,this is a good opportunity to to
(08:22):
go meet some, some new people.
So that's why I I was more moreopen to going.
Um, yeah, maybe I still wouldhave gone if I knew a bunch of
people already, you know.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
But right, that'd be less likely to maybe, yeah, I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
I don't know how how that would have turned out.
But yeah, I mean, I was goingthere mainly just to, yeah, try
to meet new people.
Speaker 4 (08:51):
And meet new people.
You did.
And in a very intimate way,when you're wrestling with some
other guy who probably alsodoesn't have a shirt on, and I
think that's where you met JDright.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
That's right.
Yeah, there's few firstintroductions, as rolling on the
ground with another dudeshirtless trying to pin each
other down, be like, hey, what's?
your name again.
But yeah, I think, ben, you'reresponsible for convincing me to
come the one time I did, and Ithink at the time we were
talking through some of myconflicted, complicated
(09:22):
relationship with God, and Ithink you challenged me out of
since we were going throughExodus or no, it was because of
conversation we'd had when we'dgone through Genesis about Jacob
wrestling with God and youpushed me of like, hey, you
should go do this thing.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
I did not know that.
I didn't know that either.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
That sounds like something former men would say
that's perfect.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Hey, read Exodus about leadership and you're
wrestling with God Come comewrestle with some other guys,
and so there was a huge part ofme was like I, this is just not
my cup of tea.
But there was also part of methat realized the only way you
grow is doing things outsideyour comfort zone.
I love it, and if you haven'tbeen willing to push yourself,
(10:01):
is it really worth it to say no?
So I was like okay, I mean, uh,dang it.
Okay, fine, then I'll I'll sayonce yes, so I show up and I
will say there's something veryunique, memorable, about getting
to wrestle your pastor and uh,I think we only wrestled for
(10:23):
three rounds.
I'm guessing you probably tookthe first one, I took the second
one, and so it's kind of oneand one third round.
Who's going to get it?
And unfortunately I can saythat I lost quite handily and
Ben took me to the mat.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
But it was a very memorable experience.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I was completely gassed.
I don't think I could wrestleanyone else for the rest of the
evening.
Speaker 4 (10:42):
I can't remember that .
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Yeah, it's so funny the the.
The slight advantage I had isthat I wrestled in middle school
and almost everybody else itwas their first experience.
It was backyard wrestling withMichael at ward park.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
Right, but middle school, ben, he must've been a
fierce wrestler, cause you, youstill have the moves yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
He had something.
Okay, we're telling this storybecause this is kind of the
context of how you met all threeof us and, as you said, jd is
the one that actually invitedyou to come worship with New
City.
And one of the things I want topoint out is you said you know,
I was essentially looking forfriends.
I didn't have many friends inOrlando and one of the values we
(11:20):
have is that people are able tobelong before they believe.
Like.
It's important for you to beable to have this sense of like.
We know you, we care about you,we're for you, you, you're one
of us.
We were friends like.
All of that's real andauthentic and you don't believe
the same thing we do, and that'sokay, but that's not contingent
on our relationship or ourrelationship is not contingent
upon you believing what webelieve and simultaneously, we
(11:44):
really think that what webelieve is true and that's best
for you and it would be a goodthing to come to know Jesus.
So I'm curious, as you reflectback on that time and kind of
coming into the community of NewCity, what sticks out to you?
What do you recall from thatseason?
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yeah, you know, at first, when I first started
going to to new city, I waspretty inconsistent.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
I'm sure jd will will remember this um I mean a
little, yeah, you kept comingback.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Eventually I mattered I would yeah, I would usually
come, you know like maybe onceor twice a month or something
like that, and I felt honestlykind of, you know, uncomfortable
coming at first.
It was just, you know, I didn'tgrow up going to church a ton.
(12:36):
My mom's side of the family isCatholic, so I had a little bit
of experience with that, but mymom left the Catholic faith when
she was younger so I didn'treally grow up in it at all.
Growing up in Costa Rica neverwent to church.
I went to church a handful oftimes over the course of my 13
(13:00):
years there, whether it was justwith a friend or you know.
There was this girl that Iliked and I was going to her
church because I liked her, notbecause I was, you know, wanting
to go to church.
We've all been there.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
I was going to say, power of pretty cool, get you to
go to church.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
So, yeah, you know, like I didn't have a ton of
experience and I I've, you know,I wasn't a believer, so I just
felt, felt kind of uncomfortable, but what kept me going was
just how, you know, everyone waswas just so, so friendly and so
positive.
Everyone just had a very, youknow, positive outlook on life
(13:42):
and, um, people were kind, werekind and and friendly and and
that that's really what you know, drew me in and you know I
would hang out with um, withfriends at New City, outside of
the church context sometimes and, uh, you know it, slowly I I
(14:03):
got to be more comfortablecoming after a while, I just
kind of got used to it.
But you know, it wasn't untilrecently, about two years later
basically, when I actually cameto faith.
So it was a gradual process.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
So helpful.
I love hearing that tensionwhich was, on one hand, there
were some things that wereuncomfortable about being in
that space.
On the other hand, there was aninvitation from the people.
The people is really, what hadyou coming back?
And when I try to get outsideof just what I experience on a
Sunday morning and think aboutit from the lens or the eyes of
(14:43):
an outsider, it's not a concert,but it's kind of got some
concert vibes.
It's not a TED Talk, but it'sgot some TED Talk vibes.
There's a point at whichsomebody gets up there and
breaks bread and pours wine intoa cup and says it's got
something to do with the bodyand blood of Jesus.
The songs we sing can be alittle bit weird sometimes.
There's all these foreignelements.
We have our own language.
(15:03):
We have our own language, wehave our own way of interacting,
all those kind of things.
So true.
What were the things that werethat made you uncomfortable on a
Sunday morning when you cameand worshipped?
All of the above?
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I mean, I think, yeah , so you know, church always
starts off with music, off withmusic.
And you know people in New Cityare are, you know they, they
get into the music and you knowthey, they start raising their
hands and you know, uh, I justwas like, oh, you know, it's
(15:41):
just, you know, to me initially,just kind of know to me
initially, it just kind of justfelt kind of strange like seeing
people getting so into it, youknow, and it just it was foreign
to me.
Obviously it doesn't soundstrange now, or to you guys, but
(16:02):
to me as as a as a new, as anewcomer, it was, you know, uh,
a little unusual.
So I guess you know it wasn'twhat I was used to seeing in
general society.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Um, do you remember how you made sense of that, like
what was the story you toldyourself about why people were
like getting super into thesesongs and raising their hands?
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Well, I mean, I just to me, you know, it looked like
you know people were, they werejust really they, they, they had
a genuine connection to God andthey weren't afraid to display
that.
You know, even for me now, as anew believer, I sometimes I, I
feel, you know, like, like I'mnot, you know, like I don't want
(16:56):
to just like put on this hugedisplay and put my hands up in
the air, I still feel you know alittle.
I wouldn't.
I'd still feel you know alittle, I wouldn't say
uncomfortable, but just uh, youknow, not as uh, I guess,
willing or free to just show mytrue emotions in a big public
(17:17):
space, which is kind of likewhat I when I see that.
I see people, they're, they'rejust, it's just them and God,
and they don't care about theway they look, they don't care
about them displaying their,their emotions, they're excited.
Yeah, let's put our arms up,you know.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
So I really admire that your your interpretation of
it, because when you're in aspace where you're uncomfortable
and something's confusing, um,it's easy to bring kind of to
overlay judgments on thosethings Like what are all these
like holy rollers doing?
You know like there's ways youcould have gone with that, but
the way that you went wasactually to give them the best
(17:59):
read on the situation, which waswow, these people like
genuinely feel to God andthey're expressing this out of a
place of sincerity and I reallyrespect that.
That was your interpretation ofwhat was going on and I think
that that's true, I think you'reaccurate.
But as an outsider coming in,there's a lot of different ways.
You could have stories youcould have told about what you
(18:20):
were witnessing in that moment.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Yeah, um no, but you know it.
just to me it just seemed like,like I said, people were uh,
they were just really, reallyinto it you know, for lack of a
better way to say it, um, andyou know, like I said to me, it
was, it was foreign.
And you know, like I said to me, it was foreign, it was strange
(18:45):
and it's just not somethingthat you see out in the normal
world.
So I'm trying to think of otherthings.
I think, you know, communion atthe end of church was always
uncomfortable for me because Ididn't go up.
It was, that was always.
(19:07):
You know, it was something Ialways, you know, didn't look
forward.
That moment where you have tolike just kind of excuse
yourself, uh, or just leteveryone walk past you.
And you know, I feel likepeople are looking at me, like
there's just one guy in thewhole church that's not going up
, you know, and like you knowthat you know, for better or
(19:33):
worse, you know, I was feelingthat that would make me feel
uncomfortable, you know, becausepeople just naturally want to
be a part of the pack.
So when you're outside of that,you feel, you know, that
outsider feeling adds anotherlayer of uncomfort.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
So that was probably the other aspect, but no, I'd
say those were probably the main, main two things.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
yeah, yeah, that sounds totally lonely to be like
.
Three to five hundred peopleare all getting up to go take
communion and you're one of thefew people sitting there, so
that that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
But as one of the people who would often be
sitting next to Dylan, becausemany times you would sit in my
row.
That was something I reallyrespected and admired about you
throughout the.
I guess it was about two yearsof kind of on and off attending
New City Once you understood whywe did communion and the fact
that this is a distinctly forbelievers sacrament.
(20:43):
You got that and you respectedit and you were like, yeah,
that's not me.
It was clear that at that pointyou were being drawn.
So there was this I want that,maybe could possibly be me, but
it's not me right now.
And so the fact that you hadthe consistency and the
integrity to say, yeah, I'mgoing to sit this one out and
(21:04):
kind of would use that window,as I guess I'll run to the
bathroom every week.
I really did admire that, whichalso made it to foreshadow
later part of the story a lotmore special.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
Yeah, you have had that like consistent integrity,
like JD saying of I don't know.
I feel like it could have beeneasy for you and hanging out
with different people from newcity to try to like put on a
show like yeah, I'm reallyinterested in this.
Or like I to try to like put ona show like yeah, I'm really
interested in this.
Or like I'm going to become aChristian soon.
Just like please us, maybe, andtrying to fit in.
But I felt like the whole timeyou were just very honest about
where you were at with God andyour beliefs, even if it was
(21:37):
contrary to ours, but you werestill willing to be our friend
and willing to come hang out.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah it's really cool .
So one of the things that is, Iteach my son, I teach Augie
this, which is, uh, we don't goto church, we are the church and
uh, it's, it's one of the coolthings about your story.
It's like you, you came toworship with us on Sundays but
actually where you reallyexperienced the like entryway
(22:03):
into Christianity was throughthe church, the people of God.
So the event the Sunday morningworship gathering had some
things that if left alone, wouldhave been off-putting and even
maybe pushed you out.
But since we don't go to church, we are the church, you
actually felt really welcomed inby the church, the people of
God, and you were connected withone of the communities that you
(22:26):
show up to.
I'm curious what that was likeas you started building
relationships with some of thepeople of New City, um, what
that process was like and howthose developed and deepened
over time.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Yeah, well, it was Michael Hample that invited me
to community, that got meplugged in there and, um, those
were good.
You know, I first started goingto those during my first year,
I think.
Again, I felt like it was justanother opportunity for me to go
(22:57):
and meet new people.
During those first few months Iwas just trying to meet as many
people as possible.
I would take the offer up onanyone that you know would
invite me to go do something.
So I would.
Yeah, I went to community.
(23:18):
It was Michael and Aaron thatwere hosting them at first.
I think you guys were, at leastduring my time.
You guys were the first hostsof, of that group and we would,
we would have them at your houseand, um, yeah, it was always,
you know, good time.
(23:38):
The first hour was spent eatingand then the second hour was,
you know, sort of, uh, you know,read the Bible and talk about
Jesus, go over some verses andum, again, you know, obviously,
as a non-believer, that secondhour was, it was always.
(23:58):
You know, I just felt kind ofout of place because you know
everyone's sitting down in acircle and reading the Bible.
I'm just kind of sitting thereon the side just observing,
basically not reallycontributing much of course, and
didn't have much to say.
(24:19):
I think every once in a while Iwould ask questions, but for
the most part I was just asilent observer for those.
But I kept going for a while.
It was initially it was just forthe social aspect, but then
(24:43):
eventually, you know, I startedto get more and more curious.
To get more and more curious.
The first thing I'd say thatgot me curious, and what I would
say was at the time is I'd liketo be a believer, but I can't
(25:03):
just wake up and start believingeverything, because I just saw
how everyone conductedthemselves.
I aspired to to be like thatand it just seemed like everyone
was living the good life.
To me, you know, um, you knowthat that was really kind of the
first drive forward, uh, butyou know, I was in that stage
(25:29):
for a while where I I was, youknow, wanting to believe, but I
couldn't just like say, yeah,I'm gonna just start believing
all this stuff.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
and you know, I remember that, yeah, like, it
like it seems really good whatyou guys all have going on here.
It seems really good to havethis belief.
But how do I force my brain tobelieve this or force my heart
to believe this.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, what were you seeing that was attractive?
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Mainly, people just seemed happy and positive.
You know, friendly andopen-minded.
You know that am friendly andand open-minded, you know, and,
uh, yeah, there was.
There was just some somethingabout, uh, the people in
(26:20):
community, the people at NewCity, that that I just felt I
felt drawn to them, felt I feltdrawn to them.
(26:42):
Um, you know, you try tocompare them to you know sort of
standard non-believer people.
Uh, I'd say the main thing theywould be more interested in in
you as a person, you know, um, Iremember, you know, early on,
(27:03):
when I was, whenever I wouldhave a conversation with, with
someone at new city I was atfirst, I was always thrown off
guard by the amount of questionsthey would ask me.
I've never had in the past,I've never had someone ask me so
many questions, and that was abig, a big unique factor.
(27:30):
People just seemed interestedin you.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
There's something cool about.
Cs.
Lewis says if you ever met agenuinely humble person, you
wouldn't be struck by theirhumility.
You would find that they werejust genuinely interested in you
.
And I just like I love thatthat was your experience.
Jesus says in John 13 that thelove that the Christian
(27:55):
community has, and then in John17, the unity that the Christian
community has, that those twothings, if they're there, they
will attract people to Jesus.
They will be signs, that kindof point beyond themselves that
Jesus must be legit and so it'sso.
It's super encouraging to me.
It's called the communityapologetic.
So like you couldn't, maybe youcouldn't get there rationally,
(28:18):
like how do I believe in thisstuff?
Rationally, like I don't knowhow to get there.
But there was somethinghappening at maybe a heart level
where it was.
You kind of wanted it to betrue which.
I think, is maybe one of thefirst dominoes to fall for
somebody to come to know Jesus.
It actually this looksdesirable.
Not only believable, butdesirable.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I remember a conversation we had at some
point during this window whereyou were commenting on one of
the things that was a little oddor different about the people
you were building a relationshipwith at New City, versus
friends you'd had for years whoweren't believers, and it was so
funny to me the way you put it.
You said, man, y'all are reallyaffectionate, you hug each
(28:58):
other a lot, and it kind of tookyou off guard a bit, and yet it
was also clear there wassomething about that that you
found really admirable anddesirable and it was really
amusing and also encouraging forme to hear you say that,
because, yeah, that's what wewant it to be, because of what,
ben, you just said that's sogood.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yeah, some of these things I'm hearing for the first
time too, which is cool.
I love hearing the story puttogether there's another time
we're at our community.
Speaker 4 (29:26):
we did the potluck meal.
Then afterwards, I think wewere just like praying for each
other, just like sharing updateson what's going on in life,
what's good, what's bad, andpraying for each other, and we
kind of all went around and wegot to you, dylan, and I think
you didn't want to share, butyou were like you guys are the
most vulnerable people I've evermet, because everyone was just
sharing their like deepest anddarkest stuff going on and hard
(29:47):
stuff and I don't rememberexactly what you said, but it
was something along the lines ofyeah, basically that no one in
the world does this, except forChristians.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yes, yeah, yeah, it was totally.
It just felt, you know, totallyforeign to me.
I have never experienced thatyou know in other social groups.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah, it really is.
You use the word foreign thereand I think that's the right
word.
So many of these things wereforeign.
They were strange even to thepoint of uncomfortable or
confusing.
And it wasn't actually in thedownplaying of the strangeness,
it was actually in thefull-proof strangeness that over
(30:26):
time that was actually what wasattractive.
And I just think about that likeif the gospel is true, then the
worst thing that could possiblybe said about me was that the
Son of God had to die on a crossto make me right with God.
So what could I possibly tellyou guys about me?
That's worse than that.
Therefore, I'm freed up to behonest and be vulnerable.
So like the gospel actuallychanges a people, it creates a
(30:50):
community built like that's bornof the gospel and kind of
oriented around the gospel.
That is ought to be utterlycontrasted with any other social
gathering that you might findyourself in.
So I just I'm more or lesshighlighting that to say like
that's cool, like it's actuallyworking the thing.
That's actually doing the thing.
Michael, when did you buy Dylana Bible in this process?
Speaker 4 (31:15):
To be fair, I didn't buy it for Dylan.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
When did you give Dylan a Bible?
I?
Speaker 4 (31:19):
think this Bible was for free from somewhere that I
grabbed A Hilton hotel room.
The Bible itself looks like itcame from a Hilton hotel room
it's pretty old school, it's oldschool scratched out hilton to
put hample on it, the hamplehotel um, I don't know exactly
when, but I do remember it beingvery late in the game of
(31:42):
knowing dylan.
I think you came over to dinnerone night with me and Aaron,
and we were talking, saidsomething about the Bible and
then I realized I'm like, dylan,do you have a Bible?
And you said no and I was like,oh man, we've known Dylan for
probably like a year and a halftwo years at this point and
never offered you a Bible.
So that felt like a big shameon me, but I was like, oh, let
(32:04):
me grab you one.
So I gave you one that night, Ibelieve.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Yeah, I think that was the summer of last year, it
was like.
July or August or somethingyeah.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
And how did you receive that?
I mean, you've been in theseBible studies when people are
like sitting around and talkingabout the book and now
somebody's trying to give youthe book.
What is that like for you inthat moment?
Do you remember?
Speaker 3 (32:36):
Yeah, we're trying to give you the book.
What is that like for you inthat moment, do you remember?
Yeah, I was at first.
I was thinking, you know, thisis cool, I'm probably not gonna
read it for a while and part ofthat was because I was studying
for this test at the time.
So that was kind of taking up alot of my mental energy.
But you know, yeah, I wasthinking that's cool, cool,
maybe I'll open it up one day.
But I didn't have any intentionto open it up as soon as I got
home that night.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
You were studying pretty hardcore right for these
tests, for work you work all dayand then go home maybe do a
quick workout and then study therest of the night.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Pretty much and for the bulk of the time that we
were friends, this was kind ofthe regular cadence the night
pretty much, and for the bulk ofthe time that we were friends
this was kind of regular cadencerhythm of your life and so the
fact that, yeah, it's true thatthere would be, like you said,
months where you'd be at newcity once, maybe twice, but
there was still in amongst thisvery demanding schedule, there
was still something about thisspace of these people that you
(33:28):
found, yeah, this is, this isworth it for me to pursue, even
in the midst of juggling allthis other stuff 100 yeah dylan
was just real quick.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
Dylan was the most faithful member of our community
for at least a year, like morefaithful than me when I was
leading the community, like Ithink, I missed more of the
meetings
Speaker 3 (33:46):
than he did, which is saying something.
I think think Dylan led most ofthem.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
I don't believe any of this yet, but let me teach
you.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
I actually think that's true for worship too.
Like after, maybe, the early onpoint that you talked to about
with JD, I saw you almost everySunday and there was just this
commitment Like this.
This became a staple of yourlife rhythm, which was
worshiping on Sundays andcommunity on whatever day of the
week it was.
But, there's just something coolabout that that you were in
(34:15):
that space.
So I remember having aconversation with you over lunch
and I think it was like hey,you know, you've been around us,
you've been seeing this thing,like what are your thoughts?
And you're like you shared someof the things you shared, um,
and I was like what do you thinkabout God?
Like where?
And I this is my language, notyours but there was just kind of
(34:36):
this general eh, it's just likeirrelevant to me right now.
Um, and I think I invited youto read mere Christianity with
me by CS Lewis, and you werelike no, that's okay Back were
like no, that's okay.
Back to his honesty, yeah it wasgreat, and you were just like
no, I'm good, I got these testsI'm studying for.
You were like I just don't havetime to read a book right now.
(34:56):
I was like okay, that's fine,and so that was like part of the
conversation.
When did the momentum shiftkind of in favor of exploring
the faith?
Speaker 3 (35:06):
of exploring the faith.
I'd say it really started afterI finished studying Last year.
I took the test I think it wasin August and then there was
like the six-week waiting periodwhere I was waiting to hear
(35:28):
back from the test, people tohear if I passed.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
And you were stressed out, man.
Oh, yeah, yeah I was yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
So it was really after I finished studying, but
especially after I knew that Ipassed.
That's really when it happened,and I remember that shift
happened when I was over at jd'splace and we were on the back
(35:55):
porch just having a conversationgreat conversation, you know
long I talk a lot guys yeah, umand yeah, throughout my time
there were several people thatwent up to me and said hey, you
(36:17):
know you want to read the Bibletogether.
You should start reading theBible declined at first.
It wasn't until that night whenJD I think it was the gospel
Mark JD was like, hey, youshould.
I think, out of all the gospels, I think Mark is the one that
(36:40):
you would.
That's what JD told me.
Mark is the one that you know,you, I think would resonate the
most with you, or or one of them.
Um, so I started there and, andthat's really like when my
curiosity, uh, like reallystarted to take precedence and I
(37:01):
that's when I started readingit.
I didn't have to worry aboutthe test or or studying, and, um
, you know that that's when theactual process of coming to
faith started, pretty much rightthen I remember I went on this
trip to Costa Rica for a fewdays or a week or something, and
(37:25):
I read a little bit of itbefore going on the trip.
I went on the trip, kind offorgot about it, and then when I
came back, I started reading itmore seriously.
Um, you know, jd was like, yeah, just just read it.
And now let me know what youthink.
And and we met up again and, um, it was when I got back and I
(37:50):
was reading it that second timearound, when I kind of had my
first moment, or encounter, youcould say, with the Holy Spirit,
and I remember telling JD aboutit.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Would you tell us about it now?
Speaker 3 (38:07):
Yeah, absolutely it.
And yeah, yeah, absolutely.
I just I was, when I wasreading it one night I was
before I picked it up I was justfeeling anxious about something
and I don't know.
A few minutes into reading it,I just felt like the that like
feeling of anxiety, you know.
(38:28):
Those butterflies in yourstomach just immediately went
away and yeah, I've never reallyfelt that before.
And that was kind of like myfirst moment where I was like,
oh you know, maybe there'ssomething to this.
Wow Moments like that.
(38:52):
You know, encounters with theHoly Spirit started happening
more frequently after that.
I remember JD telling me youknow, it sounds like the Holy
Spirit is wooing you in.
Speaker 1 (39:11):
What a good language.
And it was when you're readingthe scriptures.
So you'd open the Gospel of Mark, you'd be reading and you'd get
this sense which, for therecord, john Wesley, who's a
well-known Christian, hedescribed it as his heart was
strangely warmed.
I just love that language.
He didn't really know what elseto say about it other than my
(39:33):
heart was strangely warmed.
But there is this experientialdimension of the Holy Spirit at
work.
That doesn't always happen,isn't always there, but when it
is there, there's something thathe's doing.
And I hear you saying like ohwow, I'm experiencing something
that I've never experiencedbefore while reading the
scriptures.
Or I'm even thinking now aboutLuke 24, when they're walking on
(39:55):
the road to Emmaus and theysaid did not our hearts burn
within us as he opened up thescriptures to us?
Like, in other words, yourexperience has both biblical and
historical precedent.
Like this is something the HolySpirit does, accompanying with
the Word of God.
The Spirit of God comes to tobring that kind of encounter.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
I love that language and this part of the story was
super exciting for me becauseDylan, I had first met that one
and only night at backyardwrestling and I could tell, like
he's new, he doesn't knowanyone.
This has kind of been trainedinto me from years of college
ministry and so struck up aconversation.
We talked for goodness I thinkit was probably like two and a
(40:35):
half hours.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
We were there so late that the lights had like it had
gone dark.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
They turned off the lights Like we needed to leave
the park because it was closing.
Speaker 4 (40:41):
No way.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
And like it was a great conversation.
And from that very firstconversation I just had this
like deep sense.
I feel like god's wooing andafter this guy.
But having seen this play outat least once now with jason and
potentially with another friendwho's earlier in this process,
the hardest thing has beenrealizing it is never on my
(41:03):
timetable yeah, wow and so goingokay, this, this is probably
gonna be a long, long hauljourney.
So by the time we fast forwardto this point in the story where
dylan's passed the test andreally you were, kind of it felt
alive again the way you hadn'tbeen before, because you
actually had mental andemotional bandwidth and this
time where it's like oh, I feelalive again and so we were able
(41:25):
to spend more time together and,as he's sharing these not just
moments, but also even beforethe moments, this actual
curiosity in me, there was anawakened excitement of oh okay,
it's happening.
And so then it became the danceof what does it look like to
faithfully like, encourage thisprocess and kind of fan that
(41:47):
flame, but also remembering Ican't change his heart, I can't
actually bring him to faith.
It has to be the Holy Spirit,and then kind of waiting and
seeing.
So is this like another year?
Is this two more months?
Like what?
What's the timeline gonna be?
But that moment on that backporch like hang out talking.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Yes, good yeah was like.
Yes, here it is, that's so good.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Yeah, I mean to that point the Word of God, the
people of God and the Spirit ofGod kind of coming into
alignment is you can tell thehand of God is usually at work
when that happens and that'sclearly evident in the story, at
least up to this point.
So that was like October 24,right?
Speaker 3 (42:28):
October 2024?
.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
So tell us from there , kind of how did you find
yourself to coming to the pointwhere you were like I think I'm
ready, From, as Michael said,like hey, this looks cool, but I
don't really know how to getthere, To where you were like I
think I'm ready.
What was that process like?
Speaker 3 (42:52):
I'm ready.
What was that process like,yeah, I'd say, you know, it took
about maybe two or three weeksfrom like that first moment
where I, you know, I felt like Ihad the encounter with the Holy
Spirit, um, and, and like I wassaying it, I kept having those
those moments, but it took mekind of a little bit to, you
know, was trying to I didn'tknow what to make of it.
(43:14):
I was trying to figure out,okay is, is this, is this real,
you know?
Am I just like imagining things?
Is it a placebo or whatever?
Um, but it kept happeningpretty frequently during that
period, during those two weeks,and, you know, after happening
(43:36):
enough times, eventually I just,you know, I was like, yeah,
this is real.
And it was kind of around thattime when I went up to you after
church and told you about theexperience I was having.
I would say I remember thatsame day I was at lunch with JD
(44:04):
and our group of friends and Iwas telling him I feel like I'm
95% there.
There was just like a littlebit of, you know, I just wanted
to like, make sure, beforemaking the like, the official
(44:26):
commitment that I, you know,because to me, the commitment
under, you know, false pretensesyou could say, and I just, you
know, wanted to be sure of thedecision that I was making.
(44:47):
So I was a little bit hesitantfor a few days and really during
those it was probably about twoweeks, you know, and you know,
I was like especially thinking,coming from a non-faith
background, a non-believer, allof this was just really new to
(45:09):
me and I just I didn't know whatto make of it and I was, I was
going back and forth a lot and,you know, trying to figure out,
if you know, if, if it wasactually happening and, um, yeah
, it, it wasn't like therewasn't some dark line in the
(45:30):
sand where I was like, okay,here, 5 o'clock on Saturday
October 15th, I'm not a believerand then 6 o'clock that same
day, okay, I'm a believer.
Now it wasn't like that, wasn'tlike that it was.
There were, like I keep saying,you know, there were a lot of
(45:51):
these little experiences I washaving, encounters with the Holy
Spirit.
It was a cumulative effect ofall those experiences that
eventually led me to theultimate commitment.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
And I think that's one of the reasons throughout
the entirety of our friendshipit has been a real friendship
Because, again, this issomething about Dylan that I've
admired so much is from theoutset you've been super clear
about.
Hey, I don't want to just jumpin on this thing out of
bandwagoning or trying to fit in.
Speaker 3 (46:29):
If.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
I'm going to commit to this it's because I'm all in
and A I just really enjoy beingaround people like that.
I think people who are fullycommitted are the most
interesting and engaging people.
But then also it actually madeit really fun and enjoyable to
go through that long waitingprocess of how is the Holy
Spirit going to do this, becausethere was never the question of
(46:52):
well, is he just saying this toappease me?
No, like he was beingcompletely upfront.
These are my hesitancies.
These are where I'm feelingdrawn, and so I remember that
conversation where you'restanding in line to order food
and on the inside I'm fistpumping like oh, he's so close.
But at the same time I wasactually more excited about the
fact that you were sointentional of.
I want to make sure I reallymean this and I'm not just
(47:15):
following purely emotion or justsomething I've kind of tricked
myself into, like I want it tobe real and I'm owning it and
I've really respected that.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
The whole time through.
Appreciate it now yeah, youroutsides and your insides would
match right like that, that youreally do believe this and not
just speak and act as if you do.
So, from my vantage point.
So you come up to me after aservice on a Sunday and this is
my summary.
I don't think either of us saidthis, but there was some
(47:44):
version of like I think I'mready to take whatever the next
step is towards God, kind of athing.
And so we sat down and I readRomans 10, nine and 10 to you
about if you believe in yourheart, uh, that God raised him
from the dead, and confess withyour mouth that Jesus is Lord,
you will be saved, right, I readthat and I was like, hey, do
you believe this?
Like do you think Jesus reallyis alive from the dead and do
you, are you willing to hisforgiveness and his life for his
(48:07):
death, for your life, thosekinds of things?
And you were like, yeah, I do.
So we prayed together.
And then you go to lunch andyou're like I'm 95% there.
And then you and I had ameeting that Wednesday, um, at
black bean deli.
Speaker 3 (48:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
And we, we talked more than um when, as you said,
you don't know when that likemoment was, but you can look
back and say, oh yeah, I came tofaith.
When did that happen, when youcould look back and go, uh, or
when did you have therealization of like, oh, I think
, whatever that 5% is, like I, Idid that, I crossed that.
Speaker 3 (48:41):
Yeah.
The remaining 5%, I would say,looking back now happened that
night, that Wednesday, when,when we had that meeting and I
don't think I realized it 100%at the time, but looking back it
was probably just a few daysafter that where I was like,
(49:01):
yeah, if I had to draw that linein the sand, that's probably
where it happened- so cool andone of the things I think is so
significant is, uh, we just readthe Luke 15, the prodigal son,
and just talked about that storyof what it means to come home
to the father, and then, uh, andthen briefly talked about the
(49:22):
four soils, how Jesus talksabout the, the, the seed is sown
.
Speaker 1 (49:27):
Some fall on this kind of ground, this kind of
ground, this kind of ground, andthen there's some that fall on
good soil and actually take rootand bear fruit.
And that was, that was most ofour conversation, do you recall?
Speaker 3 (49:40):
anything else from that conversation that that
maybe lingered?
Um, I don't think so.
I mean, you know, I, I the thekey messages stuck with me.
You know and I was just talkingabout that one parable I forget
exactly what it was calledabout planting good seeds
(50:03):
yesterday with Trey, who'sdiscipling me now, and I think
it was such a great verse or nota verse, a section of the Bible
, to go over as a new believerbecause it's all about laying
(50:29):
those good roots.
Now, I wouldn't say there wasanything else beyond those core
messages that stuck with me andI've got to keep reminding
myself of them all the time, ofthem all the time, about, you
(50:50):
know, laying those good rootsand then about the parable of
the lost son.
I mean, the key with thatthinking back now, is just that,
you know, to me it was, youknow, it's interesting to see
(51:10):
from you know, christianperspective, that you can kind
of go out and do all these badthings, um, but you know, as
long as you, you know, afterrealizing, oh, I did all all
these bad things, and you know,you realizing, oh, I did all
(51:31):
these bad things, and you know,you come to that realization and
come back to your father, youknow, and say, oh, I'm sorry, I
messed up, I did all thesethings.
In that story the father wascompassionate, despite the
(51:52):
shortcomings that he had.
You know, a lot of times, sortof, in the secular world,
there's just not thatforgiveness there, you know.
So that stuck out to me andit's just a comforting feeling,
(52:17):
you know, knowing that, um, youknow, obviously we're not
perfect, we're going to mess up,but uh, you know it, it's just
despite all that, you know, godstill loves us.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
So good.
Speaker 3 (52:35):
Oh I love that.
Speaker 1 (52:37):
Okay, so, as we close out this conversation, Real
quick.
Speaker 4 (52:40):
Which Black Bean Deli was that at?
Speaker 1 (52:42):
Colonial.
Yeah, Okay cool, yeah, theoriginal, I think so good.
Well, I would love to, I'd loveto hear, kind of since then
that was in November what tellus what that's been like?
So you've been you know.
So, let's say, november,december, january, february.
Now, what's it been likefollowing Jesus?
(53:04):
What's it been like with thisnewfound faith?
You mentioned, trey, somebodywho's been discipling you.
I know JD's had a role in thattoo.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
Tell us a little bit about that.
Yeah, trey, jd and Michael haveall been doing a great job at
discipling me.
I'm very grateful.
I'm grateful for the peoplearound me.
The community's been great andI noticed when I go away for a
time I've been on two tripssince coming to faith Whenever I
(53:34):
go away, I miss the community,I miss, you know, going to
church and being around everyoneat New City and it's just been,
yeah, really great experience.
Great people just been, yeah,really really great experience.
(53:56):
Great people.
Um, um, you know, um, as, as weall are, of course, I'm trying
to put God above everything else.
You know I, we all have, uh,you know me coming from from a
non-faithith backgroundespecially but we all have our
idols and you know I'm workingto put those idols lower on the
(54:21):
priority list and put God andJesus in that number one spot.
And you know that's what itlooks like for me now.
That's where I, I, I see theimportance of my time being
spent and sort of my, mythinking to go into into that.
(54:46):
And you know, being in that,being in community has been very
helpful, very grateful for it.
Reading the Bible, praying,those are all things that bring
me closer to God.
Of course, we get drawn and Iget drawn to other things still
(55:12):
all the time, you know.
But you know, going tocorporate worship on Sunday and
community, it's that anchor thatbrings me back.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
It's just so encouraging, I love hearing this
story.
Speaker 4 (55:29):
I could sit and listen to you all day long talk
about these things well, because, like just rewinding a year or
two years ago, we never wouldhave had this conversation with
you.
That's right yeah, these weren'tthings you wanted to talk about
these weren't things that wereactually happening in your life,
and it did like it felt so slowthe past couple years like your
progression in faith, I guessbut then all of a sudden it just
(55:49):
happened real quick at the sametime.
So sometimes I'll do that.
I'm like, wow, the way Dylan istalking right now about how the
Holy Spirit's working in hisheart and like wanting to choose
God over these idols.
I'm just like this is not theDylan I knew five months ago.
So it's really refreshing manReally fun.
Speaker 2 (56:06):
And one thing that's been rewarding and interesting
in our process of me being oneof the guys who's discipling you
is, I can remember back throughcollege and high school, some
of the men who helped discipleme and I would say broadly, it
seems like there's kind of twoschools of thought or approaches
to discipleship.
(56:26):
One is a very kind ofstructured, kind of
curriculum-oriented, walkingthrough.
It's more theology,fundamentals, and the other is
more just kind of relationalmentoring.
What's relevant in life rightnow?
And I think there's reallyvalue in both.
And for me though I know that Ioften found that first one to
(56:50):
feel a little rigid and therewould be something relevant in
my life that I'd want to engagewith with the person who's
discipling me, but it felt likewe couldn't get to it.
And what's been interesting andcool is something Dylan and I
have noticed is in his time withTrey.
That's more the structured,almost like working through
theological fundamentals, andthen Dylan and mine's time
(57:12):
together really is more of that,just relational mentoring.
Where are you at in life rightnow?
And I'm reminded of one of themen who discipled me in college.
He had this really incredibleway of whatever we were talking
about, he would find the gospelthrough thread and draw it back
in.
But he didn't feel ham-fisted.
It was almost this ability tosee what's the deeper element of
(57:33):
where god's at play here, orwhere this aspect of culture is
showing, like our sinful heartslonging for what is true and
good and us veering off to theside.
And so we get together, usuallysunday afternoons, make a meal
together common rhythm.
I often feel like I'mlackluster at it, but we do this
one consistently.
Speaker 4 (57:54):
Did you point at Ben?
I did, okay, I thought you werepointing at something on the
wall.
No, no.
Speaker 2 (57:58):
He's always hounding common rhythm, common rhythm for
a common love.
And the other piece, though, isit's really remarkable how, in
that space of sharing a mealtogether and just talking about
life, it's really remarkable how, in that space of sharing a
meal together and just talkingabout life, every time we really
do end up digging into apassage pretty extensively, in
an exegetical way, going through.
(58:19):
Here's what's actually beingsaid and this is how this
applies to life.
Here and I'll end with thisSunday you were preaching the
beginning of Hebrews.
The passage you referenced inRevelation at the end had come
up in conversation, completelyunrelated, saturday, when we
were together and we hadliterally read and discussed
(58:40):
that passage, and then, maybe 12hours later, you're referencing
it in a sermon, and it's justcool to see how the spirit is
weaving this tapestry that wejust see the back side of that's
great, and that wasn't the onlytime it happened to me.
Speaker 3 (58:52):
It happened to me one other time, yeah, when you were
preaching on leviticus, I thinkback in in november, during
that that time period that youknow it.
Just it was.
I felt like it was directlytargeting something that was
going on in my life at thatpoint.
Speaker 1 (59:12):
Yeah, wow, I love that.
The language of the Holy Spiritis weaving a tapestry and what
we just got to do together overthe last hour or so in this
conversation is basically lookat the backside of that tapestry
and trace some of those threads.
And there's countless more thatwe won't know until we're with
Jesus and he's looking andtelling us the story, you know.
(59:33):
But just even as we close, likeI want to honor both of you,
Michael and JD, and for yourintentionality, Like I really
think how this whole thing worksis living everyday life with
gospel intentionality.
It's not adding a new thing.
I mean, we were just working outor doing something that you
wanted to do anyways, or eatinga dinner on Saturday, or you
(59:55):
know, it's just like but you'redoing it with a gospel
intentionality that there'speople around here that don't
know Jesus that would bewelcomed into a community that
would love them well andgenuinely be interested in them,
and so just the intentionalityof that, I think, is a
significant like just takeawayfor anybody that might listen to
this and say, oh, I couldinvite somebody to this thing, I
(01:00:15):
could invite somebody to readthe Bible, I could invite you.
Know, it's like there's justthese invitations over two years
, but that kind of add up in theHoly Spirit's math somehow, to
Dylan sitting here telling usabout how the story of the
prodigal son is good newsbecause we all fail and we can
come home to a father withcompassion.
Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
It's like yes and amen, what a beautiful thing and
something that for anyone inthe audience who's listening,
because if I was to be on theother side of this four years
ago I probably would have had avery different perspective.
The church I grew up in it wasvery big emphasis on kind of an
EE model of evangelism, alsolike door-to-door salesman, and
(01:00:55):
I remember like in high schoolthere was this big emphasis on
are you bringing a friend fromschool?
into youth group it was thisvery go get them tiger mindset,
very performative and,unsurprisingly, I never saw any
fruit from my own attempts atthat.
But just within our church andcommunity in general fast
(01:01:18):
forward.
I moved to college, Iexperienced ruf and that's the
first time I encountered thisintentionality of oh, the gospel
is actually big enough toengage in life in all of the
ordinary spaces, not just theSunday safe ones.
But in this experience it'snever been this formalized
(01:01:40):
go-get-em and I think whatreally shifted for me a few
years ago and I'm curious,michael, because you've also, I
think, had something like thiswas realizing I can't actually
change anybody's heart and whenI try to, I basically get in the
way because I make it about me.
And the interesting thing is, inthe whole 27 years, 28 years
(01:02:02):
I've known the Lord.
I've only seen two people cometo faith, both of those since
being a new city and both ofthose in this same way of just
intentional lived life over manyyears, without any of this
formalized, performativeapproach that can be so easily
pushed, as that's whatevangelism is yeah, that's cool
(01:02:22):
man.
Speaker 4 (01:02:23):
It also reminds me of I know a guy who says that
evangelism is a team sport andjust like, oh, oh, this is our,
our little team right here.
I mean all four of us now.
And it was like God used eachof us in a very distinct and
clear way, with our own lifestage and capacity.
Like Ben with his kids probablycan't hang out on Sunday nights
, but JD can.
And then Dylan was a part ofour community and JD wasn't
(01:02:45):
wrestling and working out allthe time, but sometimes, um,
that was where I could do moreof that, um.
So God used, like our differentgiftings and life stages, to
pursue Dylan and love and togive us friendship with him.
Um and.
I just think it's.
It's so cool to like do it as acommunity.
Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Yeah, so was it.
Well, and Dylan, we want tohonor you for your uh I put the
word integrity on it earlier.
I think that's a fine word forit but just your willingness to
be who you are and to not haveto feel this pressure to conform
to some mold, that actually itwas really helpful, it was
really refreshing.
Alana will say this that it'shard to tell me no.
(01:03:21):
And you had no problem tellingme no you were just like.
I'm not going to read that bookwith you.
I really admire that and I'm sothankful for it.
Maybe lastly, just to honor theLord.
I love the fact that Jesusloved you enough to die for you
and to call you to himself andto use whatever means he needed
(01:03:41):
to to pull that off.
But, as JD said a little bitago, there was this real sense
of like oh God's after you inall the best ways and we get to
honor him.
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