October 15, 2024 • 28 mins
In this episode, Nate Claiborne talks with Michael Allen about the significance of holiness, not just as a theme in Leviticus, but as an important emphasis in the New Testament as well. They examine concept of holiness that threads through the sacrificial practices and the moral teachings of the holiness code. By shedding light on how these seemingly distinct sections of Leviticus are unified under the theme of holiness, they aim to deepen your understanding of what it means to live a holy life both as individuals and as a community.
The central focus is on a pivotal moment in Leviticus 10, a passage that’s been interpreted as thematic for the entire book. Here, they explore how Leviticus offers comprehensive answers to the nature of holiness, which Paul picks up on later in his letter to Timothy. Seeing the connections here allows us to understand the continuing importance of a book like Leviticus and to discover how a richer grasp of the holy can significantly impact our personal and communal life today.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Welcome to another episode of the All of Life
podcast.
I'm your host, Nate Claiborne,and today I am with Michael.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Allen.
How are we doing, Mike?
I'm doing great.
We're on the other side of astorm, that's right.
The sun is back out and we'recontinuing our journey through.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Leviticus, that's right.
Something like fall at leastFlorida fall is kind of in the
air, that's right, enjoy itwhile it's here.
About halfway through Leviticus.
If folks have listened to thepodcast so far this season last
episode we had Damian talkingwith Dr Jay Sklar just getting
into some of the details ofLeviticus, and Mike, you and I
have talked about strategies forreading Leviticus.
(00:47):
We did that back in the spring,but today we're doing more of a
big picture, kind of zoom out alittle bit.
We've had several weeks offocused on specific chapters,
talking about sacrifices.
This past Sunday Jason preachedkind of the pivot in some sense
, where it's finishing out thesacrificial section consecration
of the priests and then we getto Leviticus, chapter 10.
(01:09):
He kind of started us in thatand that's kind of where we're
landing today to just focus inon a verse there and then zoom
out a little bit.
So what are we going to look attoday?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, well, you mentioned how there's a pivot
point and this is something we'dmentioned in our first episode
the idea that Leviticus doesseem to come in two parts.
This cultic, sacrificialdirection on the one hand that
sure sounds like it's for theprofessionals, mainly Yep and
then this moral teaching, theso-called holiness code, that
(01:40):
seems to address how all of us,personally and socially, lead
lives of holiness.
And on the face of it, youmight think, well, that's a
weird stitching together of twovery different things and it's
appropriate that we register adifferent feel to the text
beginning and end.
(02:01):
But I actually think there is acommon theme, and it's one we
do well to pay careful attentionto, and the theme really is
holiness.
That, in and through the culticand sacrificial teaching of the
first part and then, obviously,through the holiness code,
there really is this concernabout how the Lord is holy and
(02:21):
his people, therefore, are to beholy.
Lord is holy and his people,therefore, are to be holy, and
that's a term that is reallyfamiliar but familiar doesn't
always mean that we perceive itfaithfully or helpfully, does it
?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
It feels like it is one of those Christian terms
that I can use it in a sentence,but if you pressed me for a
definition it'd be a littletrickier to do that, and then my
definition might not match yourdefinition, and then you just
get a whole bunch of different,not opinions, but something
close to that.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, and I suspect we would allude to some common
verbiage, some phrases and textsfrom scripture.
But each of us also would havesort of bound up in that social
mores from the religiouscommunity we've grown up in or
from the resources we've reliedon.
We would have a whole lot ofother amalgamations, not just
(03:13):
biblical teaching, and that'sunderstandable, but that also
can be a real potential weakness.
And so we do want to ask whatdoes the Bible say and what does
the Bible emphasize when theBible talks about the holy?
And fortunately Leviticus isthe long answer to that question
(03:34):
Later prophets and laterapostles and Jesus himself,
they'll be able to point backand to reference the holy or
holiness, because in this text,across all its chapters, you
really do have this carefuldefinitional work being done,
giving us a sense of what's atthe core of the holy life or the
(03:57):
holy person.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, that's really good and I think we've talked in
a lot of different ways abouthow people don't skip over
Leviticus.
But it's not a book peoplelinger in and some of that might
explain the disconnect of weknow how to use this word.
We're familiar with it in othercontexts of scripture, but
really having a robustdefinition of it can be kind of
elusive.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah.
So you know, to help us sort ofappreciate this, what I'd love
to do is draw attention to onepassage here, at a pivot point
in chapter 10, where holiness isaddressed in a way that
interpreters have suggested isreally thematic for the whole
book, that somehow this is justantiquated and sort of
(04:44):
exotically interesting OldTestament teaching.
We could see a similar emphasisin one New Testament passage in
1 Timothy, 4.
So the passage in Leviticus I'dlove to briefly read is in
Leviticus 10, verse 10.
And the Lord here is speakingto Aaron.
(05:07):
This is just on the other sideof Aaron's sons, nadab and Abihu
, having been punished for theirsin.
And the Lord is addressingtheir father again at this point
and he gives him something of amandate or a calling for not
just Aaron but the Aaronicpriests in the years ahead.
He says in verse 10, you are todistinguish between the holy
(05:32):
and the common and between theunclean and the clean, and
you're to teach the people ofIsrael all the statutes that the
Lord has spoken to them byMoses.
So there's going to be thisinstructional program that's
going to carry on year afteryear, generation after
generation.
And verse 10 gives sort of itscentral element here Two
(05:56):
distinctions Between the uncleanand the clean and between the
common and the holy, and I think, if we're honest, this is where
a lot of people's view ofholiness is not wrong but
insufficient, because we caneasily think that those two
distinctions mean exactly thesame thing.
(06:18):
In other words, being holy meansnot being unclean.
Yeah, but actually what we seehere is there's one distinction
within which there's stillanother distinction.
We are called first tocleanness as opposed to
uncleanness, but then there's adistinction between clean
realities whether we're talkingabout clothing or spaces, or
(06:44):
days or persons and we arecalled to holy cleanness as
opposed to merely commoncleanness.
And appreciating that the holyadds something to the clean is
really crucial here.
It really underlines the ideathat holiness is not just the
(07:08):
absence of sin, it's thepresence of devotion to the Lord
.
It's something positive, notmerely the absence or negation
of something wrong.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, when it's maybe in my understanding it's
probably helpful to distinguishhere too.
Yeah, when it's it's maybe inmy understanding it's probably
helpful to distinguish here too,that clean.
It does have elements ofhygiene associated with it, but
you're really thinking of beingcomplete, or at least being
functional, being ordered.
So it has a whole range ofthings.
It's not just that oh, there'sdirt on that.
It's not clean, it's, there'ssomething more to it.
And so you're, you're, you'rehelping us see that common
(07:44):
things can either be clean orunclean.
Holy things can't be divided inthat same way.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Right, yeah, and perhaps an analogy helps.
I mean, you know, I could haveyou over to my house, say, on
two occasions, and on oneoccasion we're going to sit in
the backyard on the porch, I'mgoing to grill burgers, and
you're not going to be shockedif I hand you a paper plate with
(08:11):
a hamburger, with some fruit,with some french fries on it.
It fits the circumstance.
On the other hand, we mighthave an occasion where we're
celebrating some particularmoment.
It could be a big birthday, itmight be somebody's upcoming
wedding, and if I'm hosting adinner, you'll probably expect a
(08:37):
different setup and we'll be atthe dining room table and my
best plateware, my bestsilverware, is going to be used.
And you would be shocked if Iuse the paper plates when we're
all dressed up in our finest.
We know there are differentoccasions of the common and the
(08:59):
special, but in both cases weexpect cleanness, wholeness,
right?
It's not only on thecelebratory and festive occasion
that you expect a clean plate.
Even when we're using paperplates out on my back porch, you
still expect me to hand you aclean plate, right?
Speaker 1 (09:19):
These are left over from the last party.
Yeah, you're going to look atme awry if it's looking scraped
up and sort of sprayed on.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
We expect cleanliness as a basic sort of baseline
parameter.
We appreciate that there's adistinction, nonetheless,
between common and speciallydevoted times, things, places
and persons.
Devoted times, things, placesand persons.
And what we see here is God,through Aaron, inviting us not
(09:49):
merely to the baseline realityof being made clean and whole,
but to this higher notion ofbeing specially devoted to the
Lord.
And it's important to remember,leviticus is very much a
midpoint for the Pentateuch, andthe Pentateuch really is going
to end with this great call inDeuteronomy 6.
(10:11):
You know, hero Israel, the Lord, our God, the Lord is one.
You shall therefore love theLord, your God, with all your
heart, soul and strength In thatgreat call.
It's a reminder that all of us,every facet of us to its
fullest, is meant not merely tobe turned from sin but to be
given over in loving devotion toGod Almighty.
(10:34):
And that's very much whatLeviticus 10.10 is signaling in
its own tone and way.
This idea, yes, we're to turnfrom other things, from things
that would render us beingincapable of being in the Lord's
presence, but we're further toincline ourselves to devote
ourselves to the Lord specially.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, it's like there's a two-step process
that's happening here of theyneed to follow all these
regulations for the sacrifices,they need to follow all of these
regulations for behavior sothat they would be clean rather
than unclean.
But then the purpose of beingclean is to then be set apart
for special service to the Lord,not just to revel in.
(11:17):
Oh, we're not unclean.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, yeah.
And we can, of course, againthink, well, okay, this is
really fascinating stuff and I'mglad Aaron got some instruction
, because apparently his sonswere not doing so well and so
they sorted things out andthat's great.
Historically, we can easilythink this is still cultic and
sacrificial and very antique andand not terribly applicable to
(11:42):
Christians.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
This side of the coming of Jesus Christ, right I
mean we think of even the stuffwe've been through up to this
point.
It's like, well, it's good thatwe understand what these
sacrifices were for, but I'mglad I don't have to bring an
animal with me to church everySunday to make my own sacrifice.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Because that's there and then.
This is here and now.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
I think if we actually look at the New
Testament in light of this basicdistinction that God calls us
to both cleanness and holiness,we can actually see the apostles
call us to this in our own day.
So in 1 Timothy 4, paul theapostle is speaking to a younger
pastor, timothy, serving thechurch in Ephesus, and Ephesus
(12:27):
at this point is a pretty happyplace.
I mean, when Paul writes theletter to the Ephesians, it's
the only letter where there'snot yet a crisis to be addressed
.
But in 1 Timothy 4, paul speaksahead and he warns about a
danger coming, and this is whathe says in those first six
verses.
He says Now the Spiritexpressly says that in later
(12:49):
times some will depart from thefaith by devoting themselves to
deceitful spirits and teachingof demons, through the
insincerity of liars whoseconsciences are seared, who
forbid marriage and requireabstinence from foods that God
created to be received withthanksgiving by those who
believe and know the truth, foreverything created by God is
(13:12):
good and nothing is to berejected if it's received with
thanksgiving, for it's made holyby the word of God and prayer.
So Paul's warning about what wemight call a Gnostic danger
coming up, this idea that thereare going to be folks who come
and it sounds like they're notgoing to be sincere, they're
(13:33):
going to be working their ownagenda, but apparently they're
going to be tempting.
And what might be tempting tosome there in Ephesus some that
Timothy pastors is this ideathat they're going to say
serious spirituality involvesgiving up food and drink and sex
and marriage, and for a lot ofreasons you can see how that
(13:57):
might sound appealing toChristians.
It sounds close enough to thetruth and there's enough verses
that if you take them out ofcontext you might think this is
the way of the Spirit andwalking in step with the Spirit.
And so Paul's.
He's taking this seriously as areal threat that could lead
people away, but he's not takingit seriously as a valid claim,
(14:20):
and he offers an argumentagainst it.
He says look, god created thesethings.
They're to be received withthanksgiving.
In other words, they're clean,not unclean.
But notice, that's not where hestops.
He isn't content to say, hey,god made food and drink, sex and
marriage were God's idea.
(14:41):
Therefore, no problem.
He presses on there and he saysthey're not to be rejected if
they're received withthanksgiving, for they are made
holy by the word of God inprayer.
In other words, though thethings in themselves are not
sinful and unclean, they stillneed to be made holy or
(15:04):
sanctified.
And they are made holy by beingreceived as the gifts of God,
in gratitude, as being directedby the word of God in its
teaching and in being reallysort of taken up in the
receptive posture of prayer.
As the children of God, we leadlives as beings who need food
(15:28):
and drink and enjoy them.
We lead lives as those who arecalled to marriage in so many
cases, and are going to be ableto enjoy that calling, not
simply by avoiding sin, but bypursuing holiness in how we eat
and drink, holiness in how welive married and sexual lives.
(15:52):
This is another reminder thatwe're called not merely to
avoiding sin, but to pursuingdevotion.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, yeah.
That's a really significantdistinction, it seems like,
because it would be easy to lookat some of these things and say
, well, gluttony is a problem,therefore we need to curb eating
, as opposed to yeah, gluttonyis a problem, but that's also
potentially solved a much betterway.
By the way, that you reorientyourself to the food that you're
(16:21):
eating and it's received withThanksgiving, and we could say I
would yourself to the food thatyou're eating and it's received
with thanksgiving, and we couldsee I would apply to the other
things as well yeah, and youknow, I think in lots of ways we
can say we often reduce thepursuit of christian growth and
faithfulness as though we'rewe're playing a game of risk
(16:42):
management and we're simplytrying to avoid sin.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
We view ourselves and others often predominantly by
what we're tempted by.
That's evil, and so we'retrying to basically game out and
manipulate.
How can I avoid undue trial andtemptation?
How can I experienceaccountability and so forth such
(17:08):
that I don't go the sinful way?
That's not wrong, that's justinsufficient right.
What we see here is there's apositive vision.
God wants us to take joy inbeing devoted to him.
God wants us to have purpose,to take joy in being devoted to
him.
God wants us to have purpose,not merely concern about
faltering, but purpose inactually walking after the ways
(17:32):
of the Lord.
And so there is what we mightcall a remarkable positive
vision of Christian growth.
Here there's a parallel.
Back in the 1990s a number ofpsychologists observed that thus
far in the 20th century, forall its growth in discussion of
(17:54):
psychological realities invarious waves of scholarship and
theoretical analysis, it wasall focused predominantly on
disorder.
Where are ways we go awry andhow do we understand that?
Sort of the hymnal was adiagnostic manual of disorder,
and psychologists said we need apositive vision, and so they
(18:17):
began speaking of so-calledpositive psychology.
What goes into a life that'shealthy and well-lived, to a
life that's healthy andwell-lived, I think in an
analogous fashion, we oftensimply reduce the notion of
holiness to trying to avoiddisorders, sin, temptation, evil
(18:38):
and corruption.
That's a crucial part of ourexperience, because as
individual persons and as asociety, you know, we can say
with Scripture I'm a man ofunclean lips and I come from a
people of unclean lips, andthat's true.
So we need to be candid andhonest, and that doesn't go away
when you're a Christian.
(18:59):
But that's not all we shouldsay.
We should also say God'scalling us, and still calling us
in Christ, to a life ofdevotion, to a life of love, to
a life that is genuinely markedby holiness, not merely
sinlessness, and we'll neverreach that completely, but we
(19:22):
really are given the great gift,the side of the resurrection in
, as Eugene Peterson would putit, practicing resurrection and
pursuing holiness and growing upin Christ in every way.
And so we want to be very clearabout that full vision of
holiness, and that's why, ofcourse, leviticus has to talk
about both atonement and otherofferings, has to talk about
(19:46):
both atonement and otherofferings that give the full
range of holiness to us, as wellas a moral life, not merely of
what we avoid but what we giveourselves to, and so we can see
holiness in all its elementsreally being implicit across the
whole of Leviticus.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, well, and some of it.
As you're talking there, I'mthinking like, well, yeah, that
really cuts against the commonnotion that submitting yourself
to holiness means just having nofun in life.
Would you cut out all thethings that might be fun just
because those could go off therails and we need to pursue
holiness.
So we're going to do this, butwe're not going to spend too
(20:22):
much time in our sermon series.
But it's instructive that thelatter parts of Leviticus are
outlining all the feasts and thefestivals and the celebrations.
Parts of Leviticus areoutlining all the feasts and the
festivals and the celebrations,and it's not just this life of
come, make your sacrifices andmake sure you don't sin, and
that'll make you holy.
It's, yeah, a holy people livesa certain type of way and it is
being fully human and joyful,and but it's doing it in a
(20:46):
certain orientation.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
And you could say that every week, as a community,
we at New City, like so manyChristians before us and around
us across the globe, weexperience this in that every
week, before we hear God's word,we confess our sins together
and we turn from the uncleanness, from the sin and from the
(21:11):
corruption that each of usstruggles with and all of us
bear together.
And then, on the far side ofhearing God's word and of Christ
ministering to us, we're, weekby week, invited to the table,
and there really is thatpositive vision as well of how
we're called to the devotion ofdependence and the provision of
(21:34):
God's presence.
And so we do get a richexperience of holiness in both
its respects, even in therhythms of our weekly liturgy,
which hopefully set the sort ofrhythms of each of our days.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah, well, I think we use the language of we're
called together to be formed andwe're formed to be sent, and so
there's this formative elementthat is happening every Sunday
at Sunday worship for a purposethat's outside of our Sunday
worship gathering.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, so folks will realize that we typically
whichever of us is preaching wefollow by prompting reflection,
and I think one thing that wecould all be reflecting on as we
listen our way through and,hopefully, are reading up on
Leviticus this fall togetherwould be reflecting on the
(22:28):
question to what extent is mypursuit of holiness
predominantly running away fromsin and to what extent do I need
to further think of running, byGod's grace, toward a life that
he describes, a life ofdevotion, of love, of fullness
and of mission, of love, offullness and of mission.
(22:49):
And we can use that as a basicrubric, day by day, week by week
, season by season, forself-assessment and hopefully
inviting the Lord to make clearto us where we need to give
thanks for growth that'shappened where we need to
confess and repent forward andwhere we would prayerfully long
(23:12):
to see God grow, each of uspersonally and all of us as a
congregation and people.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah Well, that even underscores we could have gone
to a different place in Paul andjust the way he talks about put
off, put on.
You can't just put off avoidingsin, you're going to put on
something else.
You can't just put off avoidingsin, you're going to put on
something else.
And so you could just pursuethe put on element of that of
pursuing holiness, and that willforce you to put off these
other things.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah.
And so if folks want tomeditate on that, they could not
only be reading the second halfof Leviticus, they could also
be looking at Colossians 3, atEphesians 4 and 5, at Galatians
5 and 6, at these texts wherePaul does invite that double
movement that you suggested ofputting off what's old, putting
(24:01):
on what's new and what belongsto us in Christ.
Those will each be texts thatwill give us plenty to provoke
prayerful, repentant, hopefulthought about what lies ahead.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Yeah, so, yeah, spending time in the second half
of Leviticus, those chapters inPaul you mentioned.
You've written on these topicsas well.
I think you've been drawing onthat as you've been talking here
.
I don't.
If people really want to, theycan dig into your sanctification
book.
We can put a link to that inthe show notes.
Are there other resources thatyou might recommend?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yeah, so for the true glutton, they can read my big
book creatively titledSanctification.
For folks who want something alittle more humane, you could
read my colleague SinclairFerguson's little book Devoted
to God.
Oh yeah, and it's a wonderfulsketch of biblical holiness and
in particular this idea ofdevotion to the Lord being set
(24:59):
apart, the basic meaning ofholiness being set apart
specifically to God.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
We've talked about this this whole time and I think
I wanted to underscore that aswe end and I keep saying
underscore, but that's fine thethe devotion element.
So when we think of being setapart or devoted to, I think
having we might have a cleanerdefinition, no pun intended, of
devotion.
When you think about beingdevoted to someone or something,
it's like okay, well, even if Ican't define that in so many
(25:28):
words, I feel like I have anintuitive understanding of that
and so linking that withholiness keeps holiness from
being this general Christianconcept that I could give.
I could say, oh, I mean setapart, but then not have a clear
sense of what does thatactually mean?
Right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
And so you want it to be set apart in a way that's
obviously not unclean, notbesmirched or corrupted.
But you also want to be setapart in a way that's conducive
and fitting to something youknow.
You think about equipment youmight need or clothing you might
need for various tasks.
If you're going for a long hike, yes, you want shoes that are
whole, they're clean, but ifyou're going for a long hike,
(26:15):
you don't want just any wholeshoes.
Flip-flops won't do.
Even sneakers probably aren'tup to the task.
You want some boots that areappropriate.
If you're playing golf, aparticular shot demands not
merely a club that's intact,that's uncorrupted.
You need the club that'sactually fit for just that swing
(26:40):
, just that particular kind ofshot.
So each of us in so many waysknows the importance of avoiding
corruption on the one hand, butalso having right fit or
something that's set apart for aparticular task and occasion on
the other.
And those are the two basicways we can understand holiness
here.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, that's really good and I appreciate you taking
time to talk us through thesethings, looking forward to
second half of Leviticus kind of.
I mean, yeah, we're right.
We're right at the pivot point.
So the rest of our time thisfall with Leviticus and really
meditating on some of these deeptruths and having a greater
understanding of holiness.
So any final words for us, mike.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
No, we've.
We're at a pivot point, butwe've still got the majority of
the series to come, so lotsstill ahead.
That's exciting and wonderful.
Um, we've covered so many bigideas, but I think people find
that as much as they prayerfullyprepare to hear and as much as
they follow up by meditativelysearching out the scriptures
(27:40):
Leviticus itself, but also laterapostles reflecting back on it
I think we'll all find there'sso much more for us to wonder
over and to rejoice in.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Well, we'll look forward to that.
Welcome to another episode of the All of Life
podcast.
I'm your host, Nate Claiborne,and today I am with Michael.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Allen.
How are we doing, Mike?
I'm doing great.
We're on the other side of astorm, that's right.
The sun is back out and we'recontinuing our journey through.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Leviticus, that's right.
Something like fall at leastFlorida fall is kind of in the
air, that's right, enjoy itwhile it's here.
About halfway through Leviticus.
If folks have listened to thepodcast so far this season last
episode we had Damian talkingwith Dr Jay Sklar just getting
into some of the details ofLeviticus, and Mike, you and I
have talked about strategies forreading Leviticus.
(00:47):
We did that back in the spring,but today we're doing more of a
big picture, kind of zoom out alittle bit.
We've had several weeks offocused on specific chapters,
talking about sacrifices.
This past Sunday Jason preachedkind of the pivot in some sense
, where it's finishing out thesacrificial section consecration
of the priests and then we getto Leviticus, chapter 10.
(01:09):
He kind of started us in thatand that's kind of where we're
landing today to just focus inon a verse there and then zoom
out a little bit.
So what are we going to look attoday?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, well, you mentioned how there's a pivot
point and this is something we'dmentioned in our first episode
the idea that Leviticus doesseem to come in two parts.
This cultic, sacrificialdirection on the one hand that
sure sounds like it's for theprofessionals, mainly Yep and
then this moral teaching, theso-called holiness code, that
(01:40):
seems to address how all of us,personally and socially, lead
lives of holiness.
And on the face of it, youmight think, well, that's a
weird stitching together of twovery different things and it's
appropriate that we register adifferent feel to the text
beginning and end.
(02:01):
But I actually think there is acommon theme, and it's one we
do well to pay careful attentionto, and the theme really is
holiness.
That, in and through the culticand sacrificial teaching of the
first part and then, obviously,through the holiness code,
there really is this concernabout how the Lord is holy and
(02:21):
his people, therefore, are to beholy.
Lord is holy and his people,therefore, are to be holy, and
that's a term that is reallyfamiliar but familiar doesn't
always mean that we perceive itfaithfully or helpfully, does it
?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
It feels like it is one of those Christian terms
that I can use it in a sentence,but if you pressed me for a
definition it'd be a littletrickier to do that, and then my
definition might not match yourdefinition, and then you just
get a whole bunch of different,not opinions, but something
close to that.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Yeah, and I suspect we would allude to some common
verbiage, some phrases and textsfrom scripture.
But each of us also would havesort of bound up in that social
mores from the religiouscommunity we've grown up in or
from the resources we've reliedon.
We would have a whole lot ofother amalgamations, not just
(03:13):
biblical teaching, and that'sunderstandable, but that also
can be a real potential weakness.
And so we do want to ask whatdoes the Bible say and what does
the Bible emphasize when theBible talks about the holy?
And fortunately Leviticus isthe long answer to that question
(03:34):
Later prophets and laterapostles and Jesus himself,
they'll be able to point backand to reference the holy or
holiness, because in this text,across all its chapters, you
really do have this carefuldefinitional work being done,
giving us a sense of what's atthe core of the holy life or the
(03:57):
holy person.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, that's really good and I think we've talked in
a lot of different ways abouthow people don't skip over
Leviticus.
But it's not a book peoplelinger in and some of that might
explain the disconnect of weknow how to use this word.
We're familiar with it in othercontexts of scripture, but
really having a robustdefinition of it can be kind of
elusive.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah.
So you know, to help us sort ofappreciate this, what I'd love
to do is draw attention to onepassage here, at a pivot point
in chapter 10, where holiness isaddressed in a way that
interpreters have suggested isreally thematic for the whole
book, that somehow this is justantiquated and sort of
(04:44):
exotically interesting OldTestament teaching.
We could see a similar emphasisin one New Testament passage in
1 Timothy, 4.
So the passage in Leviticus I'dlove to briefly read is in
Leviticus 10, verse 10.
And the Lord here is speakingto Aaron.
(05:07):
This is just on the other sideof Aaron's sons, nadab and Abihu
, having been punished for theirsin.
And the Lord is addressingtheir father again at this point
and he gives him something of amandate or a calling for not
just Aaron but the Aaronicpriests in the years ahead.
He says in verse 10, you are todistinguish between the holy
(05:32):
and the common and between theunclean and the clean, and
you're to teach the people ofIsrael all the statutes that the
Lord has spoken to them byMoses.
So there's going to be thisinstructional program that's
going to carry on year afteryear, generation after
generation.
And verse 10 gives sort of itscentral element here Two
(05:56):
distinctions Between the uncleanand the clean and between the
common and the holy, and I think, if we're honest, this is where
a lot of people's view ofholiness is not wrong but
insufficient, because we caneasily think that those two
distinctions mean exactly thesame thing.
(06:18):
In other words, being holy meansnot being unclean.
Yeah, but actually what we seehere is there's one distinction
within which there's stillanother distinction.
We are called first tocleanness as opposed to
uncleanness, but then there's adistinction between clean
realities whether we're talkingabout clothing or spaces, or
(06:44):
days or persons and we arecalled to holy cleanness as
opposed to merely commoncleanness.
And appreciating that the holyadds something to the clean is
really crucial here.
It really underlines the ideathat holiness is not just the
(07:08):
absence of sin, it's thepresence of devotion to the Lord
.
It's something positive, notmerely the absence or negation
of something wrong.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, when it's maybe in my understanding it's
probably helpful to distinguishhere too.
Yeah, when it's it's maybe inmy understanding it's probably
helpful to distinguish here too,that clean.
It does have elements ofhygiene associated with it, but
you're really thinking of beingcomplete, or at least being
functional, being ordered.
So it has a whole range ofthings.
It's not just that oh, there'sdirt on that.
It's not clean, it's, there'ssomething more to it.
And so you're, you're, you'rehelping us see that common
(07:44):
things can either be clean orunclean.
Holy things can't be divided inthat same way.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Right, yeah, and perhaps an analogy helps.
I mean, you know, I could haveyou over to my house, say, on
two occasions, and on oneoccasion we're going to sit in
the backyard on the porch, I'mgoing to grill burgers, and
you're not going to be shockedif I hand you a paper plate with
(08:11):
a hamburger, with some fruit,with some french fries on it.
It fits the circumstance.
On the other hand, we mighthave an occasion where we're
celebrating some particularmoment.
It could be a big birthday, itmight be somebody's upcoming
wedding, and if I'm hosting adinner, you'll probably expect a
(08:37):
different setup and we'll be atthe dining room table and my
best plateware, my bestsilverware, is going to be used.
And you would be shocked if Iuse the paper plates when we're
all dressed up in our finest.
We know there are differentoccasions of the common and the
(08:59):
special, but in both cases weexpect cleanness, wholeness,
right?
It's not only on thecelebratory and festive occasion
that you expect a clean plate.
Even when we're using paperplates out on my back porch, you
still expect me to hand you aclean plate, right?
Speaker 1 (09:19):
These are left over from the last party.
Yeah, you're going to look atme awry if it's looking scraped
up and sort of sprayed on.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
We expect cleanliness as a basic sort of baseline
parameter.
We appreciate that there's adistinction, nonetheless,
between common and speciallydevoted times, things, places
and persons.
Devoted times, things, placesand persons.
And what we see here is God,through Aaron, inviting us not
(09:49):
merely to the baseline realityof being made clean and whole,
but to this higher notion ofbeing specially devoted to the
Lord.
And it's important to remember,leviticus is very much a
midpoint for the Pentateuch, andthe Pentateuch really is going
to end with this great call inDeuteronomy 6.
(10:11):
You know, hero Israel, the Lord, our God, the Lord is one.
You shall therefore love theLord, your God, with all your
heart, soul and strength In thatgreat call.
It's a reminder that all of us,every facet of us to its
fullest, is meant not merely tobe turned from sin but to be
given over in loving devotion toGod Almighty.
(10:34):
And that's very much whatLeviticus 10.10 is signaling in
its own tone and way.
This idea, yes, we're to turnfrom other things, from things
that would render us beingincapable of being in the Lord's
presence, but we're further toincline ourselves to devote
ourselves to the Lord specially.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, it's like there's a two-step process
that's happening here of theyneed to follow all these
regulations for the sacrifices,they need to follow all of these
regulations for behavior sothat they would be clean rather
than unclean.
But then the purpose of beingclean is to then be set apart
for special service to the Lord,not just to revel in.
(11:17):
Oh, we're not unclean.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Yeah, yeah.
And we can, of course, againthink, well, okay, this is
really fascinating stuff and I'mglad Aaron got some instruction
, because apparently his sonswere not doing so well and so
they sorted things out andthat's great.
Historically, we can easilythink this is still cultic and
sacrificial and very antique andand not terribly applicable to
(11:42):
Christians.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
This side of the coming of Jesus Christ, right I
mean we think of even the stuffwe've been through up to this
point.
It's like, well, it's good thatwe understand what these
sacrifices were for, but I'mglad I don't have to bring an
animal with me to church everySunday to make my own sacrifice.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Because that's there and then.
This is here and now.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
I think if we actually look at the New
Testament in light of this basicdistinction that God calls us
to both cleanness and holiness,we can actually see the apostles
call us to this in our own day.
So in 1 Timothy 4, paul theapostle is speaking to a younger
pastor, timothy, serving thechurch in Ephesus, and Ephesus
(12:27):
at this point is a pretty happyplace.
I mean, when Paul writes theletter to the Ephesians, it's
the only letter where there'snot yet a crisis to be addressed
.
But in 1 Timothy 4, paul speaksahead and he warns about a
danger coming, and this is whathe says in those first six
verses.
He says Now the Spiritexpressly says that in later
(12:49):
times some will depart from thefaith by devoting themselves to
deceitful spirits and teachingof demons, through the
insincerity of liars whoseconsciences are seared, who
forbid marriage and requireabstinence from foods that God
created to be received withthanksgiving by those who
believe and know the truth, foreverything created by God is
(13:12):
good and nothing is to berejected if it's received with
thanksgiving, for it's made holyby the word of God and prayer.
So Paul's warning about what wemight call a Gnostic danger
coming up, this idea that thereare going to be folks who come
and it sounds like they're notgoing to be sincere, they're
(13:33):
going to be working their ownagenda, but apparently they're
going to be tempting.
And what might be tempting tosome there in Ephesus some that
Timothy pastors is this ideathat they're going to say
serious spirituality involvesgiving up food and drink and sex
and marriage, and for a lot ofreasons you can see how that
(13:57):
might sound appealing toChristians.
It sounds close enough to thetruth and there's enough verses
that if you take them out ofcontext you might think this is
the way of the Spirit andwalking in step with the Spirit.
And so Paul's.
He's taking this seriously as areal threat that could lead
people away, but he's not takingit seriously as a valid claim,
(14:20):
and he offers an argumentagainst it.
He says look, god created thesethings.
They're to be received withthanksgiving.
In other words, they're clean,not unclean.
But notice, that's not where hestops.
He isn't content to say, hey,god made food and drink, sex and
marriage were God's idea.
(14:41):
Therefore, no problem.
He presses on there and he saysthey're not to be rejected if
they're received withthanksgiving, for they are made
holy by the word of God inprayer.
In other words, though thethings in themselves are not
sinful and unclean, they stillneed to be made holy or
(15:04):
sanctified.
And they are made holy by beingreceived as the gifts of God,
in gratitude, as being directedby the word of God in its
teaching and in being reallysort of taken up in the
receptive posture of prayer.
As the children of God, we leadlives as beings who need food
(15:28):
and drink and enjoy them.
We lead lives as those who arecalled to marriage in so many
cases, and are going to be ableto enjoy that calling, not
simply by avoiding sin, but bypursuing holiness in how we eat
and drink, holiness in how welive married and sexual lives.
(15:52):
This is another reminder thatwe're called not merely to
avoiding sin, but to pursuingdevotion.
Speaker 1 (16:01):
Yeah, yeah.
That's a really significantdistinction, it seems like,
because it would be easy to lookat some of these things and say
, well, gluttony is a problem,therefore we need to curb eating
, as opposed to yeah, gluttonyis a problem, but that's also
potentially solved a much betterway.
By the way, that you reorientyourself to the food that you're
(16:21):
eating and it's received withThanksgiving, and we could say I
would yourself to the food thatyou're eating and it's received
with thanksgiving, and we couldsee I would apply to the other
things as well yeah, and youknow, I think in lots of ways we
can say we often reduce thepursuit of christian growth and
faithfulness as though we'rewe're playing a game of risk
(16:42):
management and we're simplytrying to avoid sin.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
We view ourselves and others often predominantly by
what we're tempted by.
That's evil, and so we'retrying to basically game out and
manipulate.
How can I avoid undue trial andtemptation?
How can I experienceaccountability and so forth such
(17:08):
that I don't go the sinful way?
That's not wrong, that's justinsufficient right.
What we see here is there's apositive vision.
God wants us to take joy inbeing devoted to him.
God wants us to have purpose,to take joy in being devoted to
him.
God wants us to have purpose,not merely concern about
faltering, but purpose inactually walking after the ways
(17:32):
of the Lord.
And so there is what we mightcall a remarkable positive
vision of Christian growth.
Here there's a parallel.
Back in the 1990s a number ofpsychologists observed that thus
far in the 20th century, forall its growth in discussion of
(17:54):
psychological realities invarious waves of scholarship and
theoretical analysis, it wasall focused predominantly on
disorder.
Where are ways we go awry andhow do we understand that?
Sort of the hymnal was adiagnostic manual of disorder,
and psychologists said we need apositive vision, and so they
(18:17):
began speaking of so-calledpositive psychology.
What goes into a life that'shealthy and well-lived, to a
life that's healthy andwell-lived, I think in an
analogous fashion, we oftensimply reduce the notion of
holiness to trying to avoiddisorders, sin, temptation, evil
(18:38):
and corruption.
That's a crucial part of ourexperience, because as
individual persons and as asociety, you know, we can say
with Scripture I'm a man ofunclean lips and I come from a
people of unclean lips, andthat's true.
So we need to be candid andhonest, and that doesn't go away
when you're a Christian.
(18:59):
But that's not all we shouldsay.
We should also say God'scalling us, and still calling us
in Christ, to a life ofdevotion, to a life of love, to
a life that is genuinely markedby holiness, not merely
sinlessness, and we'll neverreach that completely, but we
(19:22):
really are given the great gift,the side of the resurrection in
, as Eugene Peterson would putit, practicing resurrection and
pursuing holiness and growing upin Christ in every way.
And so we want to be very clearabout that full vision of
holiness, and that's why, ofcourse, leviticus has to talk
about both atonement and otherofferings, has to talk about
(19:46):
both atonement and otherofferings that give the full
range of holiness to us, as wellas a moral life, not merely of
what we avoid but what we giveourselves to, and so we can see
holiness in all its elementsreally being implicit across the
whole of Leviticus.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, well, and some of it.
As you're talking there, I'mthinking like, well, yeah, that
really cuts against the commonnotion that submitting yourself
to holiness means just having nofun in life.
Would you cut out all thethings that might be fun just
because those could go off therails and we need to pursue
holiness.
So we're going to do this, butwe're not going to spend too
(20:22):
much time in our sermon series.
But it's instructive that thelatter parts of Leviticus are
outlining all the feasts and thefestivals and the celebrations.
Parts of Leviticus areoutlining all the feasts and the
festivals and the celebrations,and it's not just this life of
come, make your sacrifices andmake sure you don't sin, and
that'll make you holy.
It's, yeah, a holy people livesa certain type of way and it is
being fully human and joyful,and but it's doing it in a
(20:46):
certain orientation.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
And you could say that every week, as a community,
we at New City, like so manyChristians before us and around
us across the globe, weexperience this in that every
week, before we hear God's word,we confess our sins together
and we turn from the uncleanness, from the sin and from the
(21:11):
corruption that each of usstruggles with and all of us
bear together.
And then, on the far side ofhearing God's word and of Christ
ministering to us, we're, weekby week, invited to the table,
and there really is thatpositive vision as well of how
we're called to the devotion ofdependence and the provision of
(21:34):
God's presence.
And so we do get a richexperience of holiness in both
its respects, even in therhythms of our weekly liturgy,
which hopefully set the sort ofrhythms of each of our days.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah, well, I think we use the language of we're
called together to be formed andwe're formed to be sent, and so
there's this formative elementthat is happening every Sunday
at Sunday worship for a purposethat's outside of our Sunday
worship gathering.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Yeah, so folks will realize that we typically
whichever of us is preaching wefollow by prompting reflection,
and I think one thing that wecould all be reflecting on as we
listen our way through and,hopefully, are reading up on
Leviticus this fall togetherwould be reflecting on the
(22:28):
question to what extent is mypursuit of holiness
predominantly running away fromsin and to what extent do I need
to further think of running, byGod's grace, toward a life that
he describes, a life ofdevotion, of love, of fullness
and of mission, of love, offullness and of mission.
(22:49):
And we can use that as a basicrubric, day by day, week by week
, season by season, forself-assessment and hopefully
inviting the Lord to make clearto us where we need to give
thanks for growth that'shappened where we need to
confess and repent forward andwhere we would prayerfully long
(23:12):
to see God grow, each of uspersonally and all of us as a
congregation and people.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah Well, that even underscores we could have gone
to a different place in Paul andjust the way he talks about put
off, put on.
You can't just put off avoidingsin, you're going to put on
something else.
You can't just put off avoidingsin, you're going to put on
something else.
And so you could just pursuethe put on element of that of
pursuing holiness, and that willforce you to put off these
other things.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah.
And so if folks want tomeditate on that, they could not
only be reading the second halfof Leviticus, they could also
be looking at Colossians 3, atEphesians 4 and 5, at Galatians
5 and 6, at these texts wherePaul does invite that double
movement that you suggested ofputting off what's old, putting
(24:01):
on what's new and what belongsto us in Christ.
Those will each be texts thatwill give us plenty to provoke
prayerful, repentant, hopefulthought about what lies ahead.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Yeah, so, yeah, spending time in the second half
of Leviticus, those chapters inPaul you mentioned.
You've written on these topicsas well.
I think you've been drawing onthat as you've been talking here
.
I don't.
If people really want to, theycan dig into your sanctification
book.
We can put a link to that inthe show notes.
Are there other resources thatyou might recommend?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yeah, so for the true glutton, they can read my big
book creatively titledSanctification.
For folks who want something alittle more humane, you could
read my colleague SinclairFerguson's little book Devoted
to God.
Oh yeah, and it's a wonderfulsketch of biblical holiness and
in particular this idea ofdevotion to the Lord being set
(24:59):
apart, the basic meaning ofholiness being set apart
specifically to God.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
We've talked about this this whole time and I think
I wanted to underscore that aswe end and I keep saying
underscore, but that's fine thethe devotion element.
So when we think of being setapart or devoted to, I think
having we might have a cleanerdefinition, no pun intended, of
devotion.
When you think about beingdevoted to someone or something,
it's like okay, well, even if Ican't define that in so many
(25:28):
words, I feel like I have anintuitive understanding of that
and so linking that withholiness keeps holiness from
being this general Christianconcept that I could give.
I could say, oh, I mean setapart, but then not have a clear
sense of what does thatactually mean?
Right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
And so you want it to be set apart in a way that's
obviously not unclean, notbesmirched or corrupted.
But you also want to be setapart in a way that's conducive
and fitting to something youknow.
You think about equipment youmight need or clothing you might
need for various tasks.
If you're going for a long hike, yes, you want shoes that are
whole, they're clean, but ifyou're going for a long hike,
(26:15):
you don't want just any wholeshoes.
Flip-flops won't do.
Even sneakers probably aren'tup to the task.
You want some boots that areappropriate.
If you're playing golf, aparticular shot demands not
merely a club that's intact,that's uncorrupted.
You need the club that'sactually fit for just that swing
(26:40):
, just that particular kind ofshot.
So each of us in so many waysknows the importance of avoiding
corruption on the one hand, butalso having right fit or
something that's set apart for aparticular task and occasion on
the other.
And those are the two basicways we can understand holiness
here.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Yeah, that's really good and I appreciate you taking
time to talk us through thesethings, looking forward to
second half of Leviticus kind of.
I mean, yeah, we're right.
We're right at the pivot point.
So the rest of our time thisfall with Leviticus and really
meditating on some of these deeptruths and having a greater
understanding of holiness.
So any final words for us, mike.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
No, we've.
We're at a pivot point, butwe've still got the majority of
the series to come, so lotsstill ahead.
That's exciting and wonderful.
Um, we've covered so many bigideas, but I think people find
that as much as they prayerfullyprepare to hear and as much as
they follow up by meditativelysearching out the scriptures
(27:40):
Leviticus itself, but also laterapostles reflecting back on it
I think we'll all find there'sso much more for us to wonder
over and to rejoice in.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Well, we'll look forward to that.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.