September 17, 2025 • 40 mins
You’ve spent years building your family, career, or business. But here’s the question: what happens to everything you’ve worked for when you’re gone, or when you can’t make decisions anymore?
In this episode of The NEXT BIG THING with Keith D. Terry, I sit down with Attorney Vaughn White, who brings over 30 years of experience helping families and entrepreneurs protect their assets, avoid costly mistakes, and pass down wealth the right way.
Together we explore:
- Why a trust can be more powerful than a will
- The common mistakes that leave families vulnerable
- How trusts can safeguard both entrepreneurs and everyday people
- The risks of poor planning and how to avoid them
- Why estate planning is about more than money: it’s about peace of mind and legacy
Attorney Vaughn White’s deep experience in estate planning, civil litigation, and wealth protection offers practical insights for anyone serious about protecting what they’ve built.
Whether you’re considering trusts vs wills, planning for asset protection, or thinking about generational wealth, this conversation will give you the tools and confidence to start planning your legacy today.
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Keith D. Terry and JJaed Productions, LLC produced this episode. www.jjaedproductions.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Keith D. Terry (00:00):
Welcome to the podcast.
The Next Big Thing.
I'm your host, keith D Terry, aconsultant, a coach and a
serial entrepreneur.
The mission here is to teach,inspire and to motivate.
Today, we're talking abouttrust.
Think about this you workdecades, you save, you build,
(00:20):
you sacrifice and then, in amoment, your family needs you
the most, everything you'veworked for is stuck in limbo,
eaten up by taxes or lost to thewrong hands.
That's a nightmare.
Now the dream is to know thatwhat you've built actually lasts
.
It supports your loved ones,protects your business and is
(00:44):
passed down the way you intendedit to be.
Today's discussion is all aboutthat, and that's why I've
brought on someone who spentmore than three decades helping
families do the right thingAttorney Vaughn White.
Now let me introduce you toVaughn.
My guest today is AttorneyVaughn White, an advocate for
change with over 30 years ofexperience in both civil and
(01:06):
criminal law.
His mission has always been tofight for his clients, restore
dignity and help those to moveforward with their lives.
Vaughn has represented bothcreditors and debtors in estates
ranging from nothing to stakesin the millions, successfully
litigating in multiple statesand federal jurisdictions.
(01:28):
What makes him stand out is notjust his legal expertise but
his heart.
As a fluent Spanish speaker, heensures every client truly
understands the process.
Outside the courtroom, he's acommitted volunteer supporting
organizations like HopeWorldwide and the Chicago
(01:49):
Skyline Afterschool Project.
He's licensed in Illinois andadmitted to practice before the
United States check this out.
Supreme Court Vaughn bringsboth depth of experience and a
deep sense of purpose to hiswork, and today we're going to
enjoy that conversation.
And I might add, he's a memberof Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity,
incorporated Absolutely Von.
(02:10):
Welcome to the show.
How are you, my friend?
Vaughn White (02:13):
I'm doing well today, my man.
Thank you for breaking up myday.
You know I get to enjoy myselftalking with one of my brothers,
so I really appreciate that.
Okay, and the community as wellothers.
Keith D. Terry (02:25):
So I really appreciate that, and the
community as well.
Bob, before we dive into trustand wealth strategies, I want to
spend a little time in yourpersonal story.
What pulled you towards law andspecifically estate planning?
Vaughn White (02:36):
I think what pulled me towards law is that I
just always was a passionateperson when it came to
advocating and advocating formyself.
Number one you know, being amiddle child being in my house,
I was always told that.
You know, I talked back a lot.
I had I had many explanationsfor things.
You know always always havingto justify things and speaking
(03:00):
out for myself.
Number one my parents alwaysjoked that I should be a lawyer
one day.
We never had one in the family.
I should be a lawyer one day.
We never had one in the family.
I was actually the first one togo to college, you know.
So, yeah, so you know I wasjust motivated and I did it.
So I think, and particularlylaw, I see so much injustice in
the world, I see so many peopleneeding that.
(03:23):
It's just a passion of mine.
Keith D. Terry (03:25):
Okay, so was there a personal moment in your
life that made you realize thatyou needed to protect, help
people protect their assets?
Vaughn White (03:35):
I think just in my professional capacity I think
even before I focused on estateplanning I just had so many
people coming to me with issues,and then even friends of mine
that I knew that didn't haveestate plans where somebody
passed away or they didn't passaway, they needed a guardianship
because they didn't haveanything in place.
(03:57):
And so they came to me becausethey had to go to court just to
be able to access money that'sin an account because somebody
is not able to speak forthemselves because they're in
the hospital.
So even that, that's part of ittoo.
Keith D. Terry (04:10):
Okay, so you work with people in all stages
of life, and I'm curious to knowwhat fears or emotions do you
hear the most from your clientswhen they first walk through the
door?
Vaughn White (04:21):
I think the biggest fear that they have is
the unknown and the process.
Okay, Because they'reintimidated by lawyers,
intimidated by the law, andthey're intimidated by big
companies, the can you know sothat the trusted friend can
(04:48):
advocate to me on their behalf.
And then I have to tell themlook, you know, I'm here for you
, you can trust me, you know.
And so the next time they comein, they come in by themselves,
you know, because, okay, this ismy guy, I can trust him, you
know.
Keith D. Terry (05:02):
So I think it's a lack of trust, or just really
hard to trust, you know, formany people especially when they
just don't know A lot of peoplelike me, like you, we're at
that age where life's notpromised and you work and you
want to pass it on to your heir.
Looking back on your ownpersonal journey, kind of an
interesting question for you.
(05:23):
What does legacy mean to you?
You?
Vaughn White (05:25):
know, legacy means to me, um, what I'm going to be
remembered for.
Okay, you know, and it's notjust at your funeral, you know,
with many of us think that'swhat it is, you know, oh, there
were 200 people at my funeral,you know, or there are a
thousand people at my funeral,or whatever.
(05:46):
It's not that A year from now,five years from now, or even,
you know, even talking to thepeople that never met you, you
know, this is what yourgrandfather was like, this is
what your great uncle was like,and to be remembered for.
You know, what I did for myfamily and my community.
(06:08):
So that's first and foremost,and then in that, protecting
what you've built, you know, andnot letting it go to waste.
So that's what it means to mepersonally.
Keith D. Terry (06:26):
I concur, I like how you framed it.
Vaughn White (06:27):
It's how you're going to be remembered when
you're gone.
Keith D. Terry (06:29):
I like that.
I like that.
I'm at that age now where I washaving a conversation the other
day where when you're young andyou're youthful, you think you
can do any and everything.
I remember seeing Jaws for thefirst time.
I thought I can swim inside theshark's mouth and survive man.
Vaughn White (06:44):
Now I'm Well, you're braver than me, brother,
you're braver than me.
Keith D. Terry (06:49):
So let's get into it now.
For someone hearing the wordtrust for the first time,
explain it.
What exactly is it?
Vaughn White (06:59):
A trust is a vehicle, it's a document, it's
an instrument that is createdthat will own your assets.
It might own your house, itmight own your bank account.
You put it in the name of thetrust and it has direction in
that document that says, in caseI'm incapacitated, if I die,
(07:20):
this is what will happen andthat's better than a will.
If I die, this is what willhappen, and that's better than a
will.
It's way better than a will,way better.
And we can get into that too.
We do trusts and wills wheneverwe do estate packages for
people.
Okay, because a will?
If you do only a will and yousay, when I die, I want
(07:41):
everything to go to this familymember, okay, okay, then, okay,
then you die.
Then what happens?
That will gets recorded and youend up having to take that will
to the courthouse, file it.
Then you have to open a probateestate to get a judge to
approve the will.
(08:01):
So you still spend the moneythat you would have spent even
if you had no will.
I see, you see, and so what wedo instead is a trust which
covers death and incapacity.
Okay, a will does not coverincapacity.
So, for instance, if you've goteverything you've built and you
(08:25):
become incapacitated.
Ok, which happens to manypeople, ok, they don't die is
becoming incapacitated.
It could be a stroke, could beyou know any number of things,
parkinson's, whatever.
Right If you, if you only havea will, the will cannot cover
what happens to you next have awill.
Keith D. Terry (08:45):
The will cannot cover what happens to you next.
Gotcha, Gotcha, yeah.
And so let's you know.
I heard you when you said it'sa part of estate planning.
So let's rise above trust andhelp me and my listeners
understand that when someonewalks through the door talking
to you about estate planning,you know, is the only element of
estate planning the trust?
No, or are there other aspectsof?
Vaughn White (09:07):
it.
It's more than that.
It's helping them makedecisions regarding managing
what they have, protecting whatthey have, and there are many
different kinds of trusts too.
Keith D. Terry (09:18):
It's not just, you know, one size fits all
we're going to get into thatbecause, you're right, there are
a lot of them.
Vaughn White (09:23):
There are a lot of different kinds, a lot of
options for people, and that'swhy you have to be careful.
You know, going on thesewebsites and saying, ok, let me,
let me download a form that Ican use.
You know, when you don't knowthe effect of that particular
form that you're using, you'rejust borrowing some legal
language because it sounds good.
Ok, let me create this documentand now I'm protected, my
(09:47):
family's protected.
Keith D. Terry (09:48):
And so what are some of the common mistakes that
your clients or people make intrying to protect their assets.
Vaughn White (09:56):
I think number one is and it's through ignorance,
and we all suffer from ignoranceof some kind.
Yes, we do, Me included, youincluded.
You know there are things thatwe don't know and we don't know
that we don't know.
Right, you know and so, andthen we hear different
misconceptions.
There's so many of them, youknow.
(10:17):
There's a misconception that ifanything should happen to me,
everything automatically goes tomy wife.
That's not, necessarily true.
Keith D. Terry (10:22):
That is a lot of people.
A lot of people have that view.
Vaughn White (10:25):
Exactly, exactly.
If I'm incapacitated, my wifecan always call the pension
board and find out what's goingon with my money, not true?
Keith D. Terry (10:35):
Okay.
Vaughn White (10:37):
Not true, because you don't have the right
document in place.
Keith D. Terry (10:39):
I see, I see so, but doesn't the spouse have
some kind of protection?
Vaughn White (10:44):
Usually, I see, I see so.
But doesn't the spouse havesome kind of protection?
Usually, okay.
But you know, if you're notdead and gone, if you're
incapacitated, that protectionis not there Okay.
And then if you pass awaywithout making sure that proper
beneficiaries in place, or youknow, or the assets are properly
, you know, disposed of, itcould end up costing you money
(11:06):
just to acquire those assets.
Okay okay If there isn't properdirection given.
Okay, okay.
Yeah, and so it's not that thespouse won't get it.
Keith D. Terry (11:15):
What'll happen is that they'll end up sometimes
spending money on people likeme to help them get to where
they need to be, where theydidn't have to spend that money,
Gotcha gotcha, if you had hadthe trust in place to help them
get to where they need to be,where they didn't have to spend
that money, gotcha, if you hadhad the trust in place, there's
a clear roadmap that you can dowhat you need to do.
Yes, gotcha, so if you don'thave money?
(11:36):
I mean because when you thinkabout, you know, the average
American, you start thinkingabout the different tribes of
people across this land.
Some folks have, you know, anest egg of a couple hundred
thousand, some millions, some,you know, 20,000.
Is a trust only for the uppermiddle class?
How would you delineate a trustplacement?
Vaughn White (11:58):
Do them for people who have very little and for
people who have a lot.
And I tell them look, you needto make a clear roadmap for your
legacy, regardless of the sizeof that legacy.
I recently did one for a ladywho had she didn't own any real
estate and she um, she's a,performs and writes music and so
(12:20):
the main thing in her trust isher musical equipment.
Oh, you know, there are noother.
You know huge financial assetsor anything you know, but we
wanted to make sure that thatstuff was protected.
Gotcha, you know.
Now you might scoff at that andgo, oh really, just, you know
speakers and you know mixingboards and equipment and all
that stuff you know.
(12:41):
But that's important to her,you know.
So we set up a plan for herthat works for her family.
Keith D. Terry (12:49):
Yeah, I like hearing that everyone should
consider you know a trust.
You know because, let's face it, another man's trash is another
man's treasure and I'm justsitting there thinking that you
know, when you're not around you, really the trust can protect
the little assets that you haveand they can direct it to where
it needs to go.
(13:09):
Can trust really protect youfrom creditors?
Vaughn White (13:13):
or lawsuits, and that's another misconception as
well.
I have in my 30 plus years Ihave sued people who had assets
in trust and gotten to thoseassets.
Okay, so a regular living trustdoes not protect you.
Okay, the standard one.
(13:34):
You would have to do a specialkind of trust.
And then, even if you haveproperty in trust, if you have
money coming to you yourcreditors there are ways that
your creditors can still get toit if you're not creative enough
, okay.
So yes, we can do it, but youhave to do it far enough in
(13:55):
advance before you get introuble.
Number one, because you can'tjust say oh my goodness, I'm
about to be sued, let metransfer everything into some
other trust or LLC or something,and then nobody will know what
I have and then I'll be good togo.
Keith D. Terry (14:18):
So now I understand.
I did my research.
There's several different typesof trust.
There's an irrevocable trust.
There's a special need trustyes, there's several, and what
I'm also hearing you say is thatthere's a skill level to the
lawyer or the person helping toset the trust up.
Now, why is that?
Vaughn White (14:42):
It's because of the complexity of it.
It's just naturally complex.
Okay, you know, and that's whyyou can't just say, okay, I need
this form.
Somebody can't just contact meand say, hey, do you have a
trust form that I can use?
I can't answer that questionbecause I don't know what you
(15:03):
need.
I see, okay, it might be aspecial needs situation.
It might be a Medicaid assetprotection trust.
Somebody might be old, okay, ornot even that old, but they
know that they're getting upthere in age and they don't want
Medicaid to take their home,you know, if they need long-term
care.
So at least five years prior tothe time that they get sick,
(15:26):
transfer it into an assetprotection trust and you know
the house is still yours, butthat's happening to my aunt
right now.
Keith D. Terry (15:35):
My aunt is suffering from dementia.
She needs to be in a nursinghome and she didn't have her
beautiful house and now theyhave to sell it or rent it or do
something.
And I did not know you talkedabout ignorance.
I didn't know that you can just, you know, put it in a trust,
like two weeks ago, and protectit.
It has to be five years.
So they're in the process ofselling her house right now.
Vaughn White (15:59):
Yeah, yeah, and it happens to so many people that
have your head spinning.
You know, when I use the wordignorance, it's not even to
offend people, it's just we justdon't know so many things and I
think the system profits off ofpeople not knowing.
You know the ignorance ofpeople.
(16:20):
It lends to the ability for somany to make money off of the
process.
Okay, I like that because youknow, ignorance by definition is
a lack of information, right,people?
Keith D. Terry (16:24):
it lends to the ability for so many to make
money off of the process.
Okay, I like that because youknow, ignorance by definition is
a lack of information, right,but people hear that word and
they get so offended, like mywife.
Yeah, they think I'm callingthem ignorant Right right, right
right right or ignorant let'skind of stay on the protection
side.
(16:44):
But, vaughn, we've all heardstories about trust going wrong,
funds being mismanaged,families being devastated.
From your perspective, what isthe biggest risk people should
be aware of?
Vaughn White (16:55):
I think it's who they nominate in their trust and
letting them know that they'rebeing nominated, and I think you
know, just knowing that you cantrust the people that you're
entrusting yourself to Okay, thetypical, most common trust.
You actually manage your owntrust.
Keith D. Terry (17:14):
You are the initial trustee of that trust.
Vaughn White (17:17):
Yes, that's typical of my my trust.
I'm the initial trustee, thenafter that, you know, then my
wife, you know, is the trustee,then after that my children in,
then my wife, you know, is thetrustee, then after that my
children, in a certain order.
Okay.
Keith D. Terry (17:29):
So you're really educating me now.
So in a trust, the most commonis the person who's setting up
the trust and upon that person'sdeath they can assign who goes.
Who's the executor next?
Vaughn White (17:41):
Not just death, but also their incapacity.
If something happens to themand they need somebody to manage
their affairs, that's alsoincluded in the trust.
Keith D. Terry (17:50):
Okay, yeah, okay .
And so how can families protectthemselves from some of the
dishonest folks that exist onthe setup side of trust?
Vaughn White (18:04):
Well, I think number one you know, whoever you
choose as an attorney, first ofall check them out, make sure
that they're legit and that it'snot just some side hustle, it's
not just something that they dooccasionally.
You know you want somebody thatthat, that that knows what
they're doing and that has doneseveral Okay, and then if
they're not asking you detailedquestions and getting proper
(18:28):
information from you, it kind ofwill tell you that they don't
know what they're doing.
Okay, they need to be thorough.
And then you need to trust thepeople that you nominate and
that you entrust yourself to.
Keith D. Terry (18:42):
So that's interesting.
So I would assume that it'sless risky with the lawyer
versus having the proper trustee.
Is that a accurate statement?
Vaughn White (18:52):
Yeah, because the lawyer is going to make sure
that things are written up insuch a way that even your
trustee can't abuse anything.
Okay, that certain permissionsare required, certain
contingencies are in place andthere's so many contingencies.
That's why I cannot givesomebody a form and say use this
(19:13):
form, okay, it's impossible.
Keith D. Terry (19:16):
And how long does it take to set a trust?
Vaughn White (19:17):
up, I usually, typically, will see somebody um
an initial meeting.
Then maybe two weeks later, youknow, unless there's no if, if
there's no emergency, you knowhappening, if they're not, you
know, close to their deathbed orsomething, and you know.
Or if they're not leaving thecountry, you know, in a week,
and they absolutely need to dothis and we want to be thorough.
(19:39):
We want to be thorough.
We're not rushing through andspitting something out as fast
as we can.
It's actually just doing what'sbest for the client and having
them review it and make multiplechanges so we can come up with
(20:00):
a great product.
Keith D. Terry (20:01):
Okay, okay.
So let's shift a little bit.
You know I the way I have thistitle.
I have a title protected.
Grow it and pass it on.
Is it is it accurate that trustcan also be used to grow your
wealth too?
You know it it it.
Vaughn White (20:16):
Uh, it's part of the vehicle as you're growing it
.
It's just the entity.
The trust is really an entity,okay.
So it will not by itselfproduce any growth.
You still produce the growth.
Or your company produces thegrowth, or your financial
advisor helps you produce thegrowth, or your investment
vehicle produces a growth, butyour trust would own that
(20:41):
vehicle, or your trust would bewho your financial person is
going to report to as you'rebuilding your wealth.
So it's part of the growingprocess, but it's not going to
generate the growing process.
I got you, I got you.
Keith D. Terry (20:55):
So let's talk, let's talk.
You have two groups of people.
You have a regular husband andwife and now you have an
entrepreneur.
Should they be thinking abouttrust differently?
And break that down for me andmy listeners?
Vaughn White (21:07):
I think I don't see a huge difference between
the two.
If you run a business, you wantto make sure that that business
is protected and you want tohave succession planning.
Most of us don't think aboutsuccession planning at all in
our business.
We're going to live forever,man.
Think about succession planningat all in our business.
We're going to live forever,man.
(21:27):
You're going to live foreverand you know if you drop dead or
if you're in the hospital allof a sudden what happens to your
operation.
You know who handles theaccounts, who handles the
receivables.
You know the bills that are due, property that you have that
belongs to someone else.
You know all of those things.
Those are all considerations.
So part of my estate planningthat I do with people also is
(21:50):
for their business, to make surethat those things are all laid
out, mapped out, and so it woulddiffer in that sense from a
typical maybe family orsomething, and some people are
in both.
Some people are in both campsat the same time.
How is that?
Keith D. Terry (22:07):
possible, thinking about their family,
yeah, yeah, Now, how is thatpossible?
Vaughn White (22:12):
Well, if they're a business owner, but they're
also a family person, so formany people they're doing
multiple parts of estateplanning as one person.
Yeah, oh, okay, providing fordifferent scenarios like the two
you mentioned.
Keith D. Terry (22:26):
Okay, if I'm sitting question correctly.
Vaughn White (22:47):
Okay, and so right now, do the laws or the legal
structure for setting up askedis well, I'm thinking of moving
to Florida, or I'm thinking ofmoving to North Carolina soon,
or whatever.
Should I wait till I move tothe other state to set it up?
Because, no, it doesn't worklike that.
Typically, states are copycatswhen it comes to estate planning
law and there's also a uniformcode that they pretty much use
(23:09):
and they tend to stick to thescript and mimic each other with
our estate planning laws.
They're not all exactly thesame, but if your trust was
valid in one state, it getsrespected in the next state.
Keith D. Terry (23:23):
You know that's a very good.
That's an interesting point.
You know in one of thecompanies that I was a part of a
startup we were incorporated inDelaware and so I never, when I
think of a trust because I needto set one up myself.
I don't have a trust.
I have a will, of course, and Ididn't think that the trust law
(23:47):
was pertinent from a stateperspective.
So what I'm hearing you say,the only trust you can have is
in the state you physically liveRight and that's not true.
Vaughn White (24:01):
You set it up in the state that you live in,
right.
Okay, please explain Right.
Keith D. Terry (24:07):
Okay, yeah.
Vaughn White (24:07):
So, for instance, I'm an Illinois resident, so I'm
going to set, I'm going to setup my trust here in Illinois, um
, but, and, and and.
I don't want to get toocomplicated, but you can have
multiple trusts.
Keith D. Terry (24:18):
By the way, no, please do Just like.
You can have multiple companiesyou know.
Vaughn White (24:23):
Okay, so you can set up a trust, uh, you know
that, uh, that your, your wife'sassets are protected in that
trust.
You can set up a trust for yourchildren, separate from your
own trust.
You can set up multiple trustsfor one person.
It's not very common, okay, youdon't do that, but it is still
possible.
It is still possible.
Keith D. Terry (24:44):
It is still possible.
Vaughn White (24:45):
Yes, it's still possible and you're not limited
Like, ok, you have a trust,that's the only trust you can
you can have.
That's not true.
Keith D. Terry (24:52):
OK, and so.
Vaughn White (24:53):
But there might be situations where somebody might
set that up, just like you canset up multiple LLC.
Keith D. Terry (24:58):
Yes, and a lot of people do that.
Yeah, a lot of people do that.
And so why would someone have aliving trust if it doesn't
protect you?
Vaughn White (25:07):
Is it in the case of sudden you die, the moment
you die the new trustee willhave direction pay this person,
(25:31):
pay that person, divide myassets.
You know, do this, do that,okay, without seeing a judge,
without seeing a lawyer which isbeautiful, yeah, saving you
thousands, tens of thousands ofdollars.
If I get incapacitated, if Iget sick, something happens to
me, I can't function.
My successor trustee will do X,y and Z, will manage my affairs
(25:57):
, will secure the interests ofmy company, will do this, will
do that without seeing a judge.
I'll give you an example, okay,and out of a couple that came
to me and, uh, the gentleman wasvery, very sick and had a
really bad dementia and he hadsome money tied up with his um,
(26:18):
with his pension, and theyneeded to get to that money and
they wouldn't talk to her.
She's a beneficiary, she was abeneficiary on the account, but
he's not dead, see.
So they would only take effectif he was dead.
Then she could talk to them andsay, hey, you know, we need
(26:38):
access to that money.
So I went to the, I went to thehospital to see him from the
rehab center to see him, and hewas in bad shape, couldn't even
understand anything I was sayingto him.
So I looked at her and I saidwe have to go to court.
And so I filed a guardianshippetition on his behalf and it
(26:59):
cost some good money for me todo that.
I filed it, did everything thatI was supposed to do the day
before we were going to go toguardianship court to get that
guardianship order so that wecan talk to the pension board
order, so that we can talk tothe pension board, so that we
can get his money.
Then he passed away rightbefore, you know, the day before
.
So we went through all thatwheel spinning and they spent a
(27:23):
lot of money and I felt badbecause I was like, wow, you
know, um, I mean, you know Istill provided an important
service, but it's a step thatcould have been avoided.
Gotcha With, you know, withproper planning.
Keith D. Terry (27:39):
So help me to understand the cost of setting
up a trust.
How costly is it?
I mean, I know there's a rangedepending on the complexity of
your assets.
Vaughn White (27:49):
Yes, there is a range and with anything, with
any kind of service, one of thethings that you always have to
watch out for, just like anyservice that you get you order
for your home or personally oranything if somebody comes in
really, really, really low ithas to raise an eyebrow.
(28:09):
A true professional, you knowit is.
if somebody is worth the service, you know it will end up
sometimes being a little bitmore, but I would generally say
you can expect the range to besomewhere around, you know, 3000
to maybe $7,000 or more,depending on the size of the
trust.
Yeah, it could also.
(28:29):
It could.
Also.
This is dependent on the sizeof the trust.
It could also depend on thesize of the assets.
It could go even beyond thatsometimes.
It's just very complicated.
Well, I know it's not Now.
Contrast that, though, withgoing to court and paying
lawyers and paying a retainer.
Keith D. Terry (28:45):
I have, I have.
I mean, the one thing in lifeI've realized is you pay for
what you get, and I agree withyou.
I just know that, incorporatingsome of my companies, you know
people, you can do it online oryou can go to a professional
who's asking you a number ofdifferent questions, which kind
(29:05):
of segues me into.
You know, are theregenerational differences that
you're seeing?
We've got millennials, we'vegot Gen Z, baby boomers.
Are they thinking differentlyabout their legacy, about their
assets?
Because there are some verywealthy millennials and there
are some very wealthy Gen Z-ers.
What are you seeing?
Vaughn White (29:29):
You know I'm going to speak to that.
I recently talked to a group ofyoung people there's this young
professional group in ourchurch that met and they like to
talk about topics sometimes andthey asked me to come and speak
to that.
They were just so attentive towhat I was saying and taken in
(29:52):
very, very seriously.
And I've spoken to groups ofolder folks sometimes and I get
the opposite and it reallysurprised me that it was flipped
in my mind.
You know, I thought the verything that the you know, the
older folks like my you know I'm61, you know and you know
(30:13):
people in you know our moremature age group and above you
would think that this is kind ofstuff that they would think
about more.
But we can sometimes be morestubborn than the younger folks,
you know, and we don't need itbecause, guess what?
It hasn't happened yet.
So because something hasn'thappened, it's not going to
happen.
Keith D. Terry (30:36):
Yeah, you know that's interesting and I'm going
to pause there for a moment,which is why I kind of brought
in legacy.
I think you have some folks whodon't really care about their
legacy and let me phrase thatbecause if you disagree with me,
let me hear from you.
But this is what I mean.
I generally think people careabout whether they're considered
(30:58):
nice or mean, but to me, when Ithink of a component of legacy
is how I leave my family, thestrength of my family, if my
children are down and out.
And it hits me.
I think I shared with you whenwe were playing golf.
I lost my youngest child andthat changed me.
(31:19):
It changed me because you know,in my mind I never thought that
I would outlive any of my kids.
So as I think about legacy now,I think about, yes, keith's
done some good work, vaughn'sdone some good work, but if I've
left my family destitute uponmy death, then I don't think my
(31:39):
legacy is so great.
Now, that's my definition.
I don't know if other folkshave it, which is why I asked
the question about thedifferences in generation,
because earlier I said at 18,full of piss and vinegar, that I
could swim inside of the mouthof a shark and survive.
Vaughn White (32:02):
Now I don't even want to go into the water, so
that's where I am no-transcriptwho tell me, vaughn, I don't
(32:40):
have anything, so I don't needto do this.
Literally, they say they havenothing, and I talk to them
further and it turns out theyhave a house.
Keith D. Terry (32:48):
Yeah, and it turns out they have a house.
Vaughn White (32:50):
Yeah, okay, they have cars, they have a
retirement account, they havelife insurance, they have
children, they havegrandchildren.
Sometimes, you know, and I'mlike what do you mean?
You have nothing?
Okay, they think that they'renot wealthy.
Yeah, and I didn't say anythingabout being wealthy, I just
(33:12):
said about protecting what youhave.
Okay, so your mindset needs tobe I am blessed and I want to
make sure that that blessing isprotected and to bless my family
with that blessing.
So I think that's the approachand then reach out, reach out,
don't, don't.
Don't be afraid of the process.
People are genuinely afraid, orthey just think it's way too
(33:36):
complicated and it's not.
Keith D. Terry (33:39):
Well, I appreciate that.
I think if people understoodthe punitive component of
probate.
So help frame that, if youcould for a typical American
family.
Help frame that, if you couldfor a typical American family.
How much of a tax implicationis it if you don't have these
(33:59):
protections in place?
That might help people tounderstand why you're such an
important part of their wealthprotection plan.
Vaughn White (34:03):
You know, it's not even about the estate.
Taxes is a very high thresholdand most Americans don't even
have to worry about that.
It's more of the punitive partof it is more of having to pay
lawyers to go to court and thenhaving, and so you're going to
(34:23):
pay your lawyer, then you'regoing to pay.
Sometimes you pay a guardian adlitem, which is a guardian
appointed by the court, which isanother lawyer, so now you're
paying two lawyers on the sameestate, I see.
And then you're spending andthe estate might not be that big
, I see, but it would bedevastating to that estate if
(34:46):
there's like $100, blowing, youknow, $20,000 of it on legal
fees just to get to the money.
Keith D. Terry (34:57):
I want to.
I want to.
You know, pick your brain onPrince.
Prince died suddenly, but heleft.
He had a whole lot of money.
And so do you know much aboutthat that you can kind of help
claim that?
Vaughn White (35:12):
And full disclosure.
I haven't dug deep into it, Ijust have a glancing reference
as to what happened with thatestate and from what I know or I
think I know is that Prince didnot have a proper estate plan,
did not put a trust, all thatstuff, and so it was just left
to.
You know, whatever the legalsystem said, you know needs to
(35:33):
take place and people'sinterests and chaos.
You know, if he had literallyhad and I don't want people to
go, well, I'm not Prince so yeah, no, no, no, but it's a good
lesson in if he had written allof that stuff out right as young
as he was, he wasn't expectedto die.
(35:55):
No, he wasn't.
No, you know, like 50 somethingor what was he?
54, 55 something, yeah, exactlyeven malcolm ball warner.
I mean, you know you know, wecan go on and on about people
who die suddenly you know.
Yeah, so you know, it's thismindset that it's something that
(36:17):
I don't have to think aboutright now and we just get rid of
that mindset.
And if he had changed hismindset and I don't know if
there are other reasons why, Idon't know if there- were
religious reasons or otherreasons why he didn't do that.
Keith D. Terry (36:31):
I don't know if there were religious reasons or
other reasons why he didn't dothat, and I'm going to make an
assumption as well that a trustcan help a family be more
harmonious than having a bunchof conflict as well.
Is that?
Vaughn White (36:40):
an accurate statement, absolutely.
There's nothing better thanclarity, like I did my wife's
aunt's estate plan recently, andshe didn't have a whole lot.
She didn't have much ofanything, but I did a simple
letters of direction and powersof attorney, things like that,
and what her wishes were whenshe passed away.
And it's amazing how, whenpeople see this stuff in writing
(37:05):
, they don't fight, they justdon't.
They just don't Because it'sthe absence of it that makes
people fight, because they thinkyou're hiding something or they
think that because it's notaddressed, hey, it's my
opportunity to say what I wantor what I would do as it relates
to that person and what theyhave.
(37:25):
But it is very clear thisperson gets the car, this person
gets this, this person getsthat.
Divide this account in such andsuch a way you know, or lump
everything together, dispose ofit and then divide it among my
children, whatever.
Then your children are notgoing crazy.
(37:46):
Or one's seeing this lawyer,another one is seeing this other
lawyer.
It's very clear.
So it actually brings harmony.
Keith D. Terry (37:52):
Get it now, you know you brought a lot of
clarity to the picture here.
Vaughn White (37:58):
That I forgot to silence the phone.
Keith D. Terry (38:01):
So we're, we're, we're, we're getting to the end
here.
Von, if someone is listeningand feels overwhelmed kind of a
generic question how should theystart?
Just pick up the phone and giveyou a jingle.
Vaughn White (38:09):
Or should they?
Keith D. Terry (38:10):
go to a financial advisor first.
Vaughn White (38:12):
You know they can go to their financial advisor,
especially if they really trustyou know somebody they really
trust.
But I encourage people I talkwith so many people, keith, that
I give free advice to you know,and I probably do it too much,
you know, and I probably do ittoo much, you know I probably
could make more, you know it.
(38:32):
Just, it's just how I'm wired.
Okay, I probably do it too muchand that's okay All right,
because I believe that I'mblessed when I just give more.
So I talk to people and I and Ijust give as much information
as I can so that they can makethose decisions I see.
So I just encourage them reachout, call the phone number, call
630-429-9010, 630-429-9010, orthey can go to vwhitelawcom.
Keith D. Terry (39:05):
One final question for you.
Question is what do you wantyour legacy to be?
Vaughn White (39:13):
Wow.
What I want my legacy to be isI want them to know man, my
family and my community to knowthis was a hardworking brother
who left his family in a bettersituation than they could have
ever been in and took care ofhis family and provided for them
even in his death, you know,and then left a mark and
(39:34):
impacted many, many souls.
That's what I want my legacy tobe.
Keith D. Terry (39:39):
Great, thank you .
Protect it, grow it, pass it on.
That's the blueprint Von White.
Thank you very much forbringing clarity and wisdom to
this show.
I really really appreciate itFor everyone listening.
Don't just think about yourlegacy Start building it now.
Thanks for listening to theNext Big Thing.
(39:59):
I'm your host, keith D Terry.
If you've enjoyed this episodeand you'd like to support this
podcast, please share it withothers, post about it on social
media or leave a rating and areview.
To catch all the latest from me, you can follow me on my
YouTube channel at Keith D Terry.
If you want to recommend aguest, please email me at info
(40:20):
at terryperformancegroupcom.
This has been produced by yourhost and Jade Productions.
Welcome to the podcast.
The Next Big Thing.
I'm your host, keith D Terry, aconsultant, a coach and a
serial entrepreneur.
The mission here is to teach,inspire and to motivate.
Today, we're talking abouttrust.
Think about this you workdecades, you save, you build,
(00:20):
you sacrifice and then, in amoment, your family needs you
the most, everything you'veworked for is stuck in limbo,
eaten up by taxes or lost to thewrong hands.
That's a nightmare.
Now the dream is to know thatwhat you've built actually lasts
.
It supports your loved ones,protects your business and is
(00:44):
passed down the way you intendedit to be.
Today's discussion is all aboutthat, and that's why I've
brought on someone who spentmore than three decades helping
families do the right thingAttorney Vaughn White.
Now let me introduce you toVaughn.
My guest today is AttorneyVaughn White, an advocate for
change with over 30 years ofexperience in both civil and
(01:06):
criminal law.
His mission has always been tofight for his clients, restore
dignity and help those to moveforward with their lives.
Vaughn has represented bothcreditors and debtors in estates
ranging from nothing to stakesin the millions, successfully
litigating in multiple statesand federal jurisdictions.
(01:28):
What makes him stand out is notjust his legal expertise but
his heart.
As a fluent Spanish speaker, heensures every client truly
understands the process.
Outside the courtroom, he's acommitted volunteer supporting
organizations like HopeWorldwide and the Chicago
(01:49):
Skyline Afterschool Project.
He's licensed in Illinois andadmitted to practice before the
United States check this out.
Supreme Court Vaughn bringsboth depth of experience and a
deep sense of purpose to hiswork, and today we're going to
enjoy that conversation.
And I might add, he's a memberof Kappa Alpha Psi Fraternity,
incorporated Absolutely Von.
(02:10):
Welcome to the show.
How are you, my friend?
Vaughn White (02:13):
I'm doing well today, my man.
Thank you for breaking up myday.
You know I get to enjoy myselftalking with one of my brothers,
so I really appreciate that.
Okay, and the community as wellothers.
Keith D. Terry (02:25):
So I really appreciate that, and the
community as well.
Bob, before we dive into trustand wealth strategies, I want to
spend a little time in yourpersonal story.
What pulled you towards law andspecifically estate planning?
Vaughn White (02:36):
I think what pulled me towards law is that I
just always was a passionateperson when it came to
advocating and advocating formyself.
Number one you know, being amiddle child being in my house,
I was always told that.
You know, I talked back a lot.
I had I had many explanationsfor things.
You know always always havingto justify things and speaking
(03:00):
out for myself.
Number one my parents alwaysjoked that I should be a lawyer
one day.
We never had one in the family.
I should be a lawyer one day.
We never had one in the family.
I was actually the first one togo to college, you know.
So, yeah, so you know I wasjust motivated and I did it.
So I think, and particularlylaw, I see so much injustice in
the world, I see so many peopleneeding that.
(03:23):
It's just a passion of mine.
Keith D. Terry (03:25):
Okay, so was there a personal moment in your
life that made you realize thatyou needed to protect, help
people protect their assets?
Vaughn White (03:35):
I think just in my professional capacity I think
even before I focused on estateplanning I just had so many
people coming to me with issues,and then even friends of mine
that I knew that didn't haveestate plans where somebody
passed away or they didn't passaway, they needed a guardianship
because they didn't haveanything in place.
(03:57):
And so they came to me becausethey had to go to court just to
be able to access money that'sin an account because somebody
is not able to speak forthemselves because they're in
the hospital.
So even that, that's part of ittoo.
Keith D. Terry (04:10):
Okay, so you work with people in all stages
of life, and I'm curious to knowwhat fears or emotions do you
hear the most from your clientswhen they first walk through the
door?
Vaughn White (04:21):
I think the biggest fear that they have is
the unknown and the process.
Okay, Because they'reintimidated by lawyers,
intimidated by the law, andthey're intimidated by big
companies, the can you know sothat the trusted friend can
(04:48):
advocate to me on their behalf.
And then I have to tell themlook, you know, I'm here for you
, you can trust me, you know.
And so the next time they comein, they come in by themselves,
you know, because, okay, this ismy guy, I can trust him, you
know.
Keith D. Terry (05:02):
So I think it's a lack of trust, or just really
hard to trust, you know, formany people especially when they
just don't know A lot of peoplelike me, like you, we're at
that age where life's notpromised and you work and you
want to pass it on to your heir.
Looking back on your ownpersonal journey, kind of an
interesting question for you.
(05:23):
What does legacy mean to you?
You?
Vaughn White (05:25):
know, legacy means to me, um, what I'm going to be
remembered for.
Okay, you know, and it's notjust at your funeral, you know,
with many of us think that'swhat it is, you know, oh, there
were 200 people at my funeral,you know, or there are a
thousand people at my funeral,or whatever.
(05:46):
It's not that A year from now,five years from now, or even,
you know, even talking to thepeople that never met you, you
know, this is what yourgrandfather was like, this is
what your great uncle was like,and to be remembered for.
You know, what I did for myfamily and my community.
(06:08):
So that's first and foremost,and then in that, protecting
what you've built, you know, andnot letting it go to waste.
So that's what it means to mepersonally.
Keith D. Terry (06:26):
I concur, I like how you framed it.
Vaughn White (06:27):
It's how you're going to be remembered when
you're gone.
Keith D. Terry (06:29):
I like that.
I like that.
I'm at that age now where I washaving a conversation the other
day where when you're young andyou're youthful, you think you
can do any and everything.
I remember seeing Jaws for thefirst time.
I thought I can swim inside theshark's mouth and survive man.
Vaughn White (06:44):
Now I'm Well, you're braver than me, brother,
you're braver than me.
Keith D. Terry (06:49):
So let's get into it now.
For someone hearing the wordtrust for the first time,
explain it.
What exactly is it?
Vaughn White (06:59):
A trust is a vehicle, it's a document, it's
an instrument that is createdthat will own your assets.
It might own your house, itmight own your bank account.
You put it in the name of thetrust and it has direction in
that document that says, in caseI'm incapacitated, if I die,
(07:20):
this is what will happen andthat's better than a will.
If I die, this is what willhappen, and that's better than a
will.
It's way better than a will,way better.
And we can get into that too.
We do trusts and wills wheneverwe do estate packages for
people.
Okay, because a will?
If you do only a will and yousay, when I die, I want
(07:41):
everything to go to this familymember, okay, okay, then, okay,
then you die.
Then what happens?
That will gets recorded and youend up having to take that will
to the courthouse, file it.
Then you have to open a probateestate to get a judge to
approve the will.
(08:01):
So you still spend the moneythat you would have spent even
if you had no will.
I see, you see, and so what wedo instead is a trust which
covers death and incapacity.
Okay, a will does not coverincapacity.
So, for instance, if you've goteverything you've built and you
(08:25):
become incapacitated.
Ok, which happens to manypeople, ok, they don't die is
becoming incapacitated.
It could be a stroke, could beyou know any number of things,
parkinson's, whatever.
Right If you, if you only havea will, the will cannot cover
what happens to you next have awill.
Keith D. Terry (08:45):
The will cannot cover what happens to you next.
Gotcha, Gotcha, yeah.
And so let's you know.
I heard you when you said it'sa part of estate planning.
So let's rise above trust andhelp me and my listeners
understand that when someonewalks through the door talking
to you about estate planning,you know, is the only element of
estate planning the trust?
No, or are there other aspectsof?
Vaughn White (09:07):
it.
It's more than that.
It's helping them makedecisions regarding managing
what they have, protecting whatthey have, and there are many
different kinds of trusts too.
Keith D. Terry (09:18):
It's not just, you know, one size fits all
we're going to get into thatbecause, you're right, there are
a lot of them.
Vaughn White (09:23):
There are a lot of different kinds, a lot of
options for people, and that'swhy you have to be careful.
You know, going on thesewebsites and saying, ok, let me,
let me download a form that Ican use.
You know, when you don't knowthe effect of that particular
form that you're using, you'rejust borrowing some legal
language because it sounds good.
Ok, let me create this documentand now I'm protected, my
(09:47):
family's protected.
Keith D. Terry (09:48):
And so what are some of the common mistakes that
your clients or people make intrying to protect their assets.
Vaughn White (09:56):
I think number one is and it's through ignorance,
and we all suffer from ignoranceof some kind.
Yes, we do, Me included, youincluded.
You know there are things thatwe don't know and we don't know
that we don't know.
Right, you know and so, andthen we hear different
misconceptions.
There's so many of them, youknow.
(10:17):
There's a misconception that ifanything should happen to me,
everything automatically goes tomy wife.
That's not, necessarily true.
Keith D. Terry (10:22):
That is a lot of people.
A lot of people have that view.
Vaughn White (10:25):
Exactly, exactly.
If I'm incapacitated, my wifecan always call the pension
board and find out what's goingon with my money, not true?
Keith D. Terry (10:35):
Okay.
Vaughn White (10:37):
Not true, because you don't have the right
document in place.
Keith D. Terry (10:39):
I see, I see so, but doesn't the spouse have
some kind of protection?
Vaughn White (10:44):
Usually, I see, I see so.
But doesn't the spouse havesome kind of protection?
Usually, okay.
But you know, if you're notdead and gone, if you're
incapacitated, that protectionis not there Okay.
And then if you pass awaywithout making sure that proper
beneficiaries in place, or youknow, or the assets are properly
, you know, disposed of, itcould end up costing you money
(11:06):
just to acquire those assets.
Okay okay If there isn't properdirection given.
Okay, okay.
Yeah, and so it's not that thespouse won't get it.
Keith D. Terry (11:15):
What'll happen is that they'll end up sometimes
spending money on people likeme to help them get to where
they need to be, where theydidn't have to spend that money,
Gotcha gotcha, if you had hadthe trust in place to help them
get to where they need to be,where they didn't have to spend
that money, gotcha, if you hadhad the trust in place, there's
a clear roadmap that you can dowhat you need to do.
Yes, gotcha, so if you don'thave money?
(11:36):
I mean because when you thinkabout, you know, the average
American, you start thinkingabout the different tribes of
people across this land.
Some folks have, you know, anest egg of a couple hundred
thousand, some millions, some,you know, 20,000.
Is a trust only for the uppermiddle class?
How would you delineate a trustplacement?
Vaughn White (11:58):
Do them for people who have very little and for
people who have a lot.
And I tell them look, you needto make a clear roadmap for your
legacy, regardless of the sizeof that legacy.
I recently did one for a ladywho had she didn't own any real
estate and she um, she's a,performs and writes music and so
(12:20):
the main thing in her trust isher musical equipment.
Oh, you know, there are noother.
You know huge financial assetsor anything you know, but we
wanted to make sure that thatstuff was protected.
Gotcha, you know.
Now you might scoff at that andgo, oh really, just, you know
speakers and you know mixingboards and equipment and all
that stuff you know.
(12:41):
But that's important to her,you know.
So we set up a plan for herthat works for her family.
Keith D. Terry (12:49):
Yeah, I like hearing that everyone should
consider you know a trust.
You know because, let's face it, another man's trash is another
man's treasure and I'm justsitting there thinking that you
know, when you're not around you, really the trust can protect
the little assets that you haveand they can direct it to where
it needs to go.
(13:09):
Can trust really protect youfrom creditors?
Vaughn White (13:13):
or lawsuits, and that's another misconception as
well.
I have in my 30 plus years Ihave sued people who had assets
in trust and gotten to thoseassets.
Okay, so a regular living trustdoes not protect you.
Okay, the standard one.
(13:34):
You would have to do a specialkind of trust.
And then, even if you haveproperty in trust, if you have
money coming to you yourcreditors there are ways that
your creditors can still get toit if you're not creative enough
, okay.
So yes, we can do it, but youhave to do it far enough in
(13:55):
advance before you get introuble.
Number one, because you can'tjust say oh my goodness, I'm
about to be sued, let metransfer everything into some
other trust or LLC or something,and then nobody will know what
I have and then I'll be good togo.
Keith D. Terry (14:18):
So now I understand.
I did my research.
There's several different typesof trust.
There's an irrevocable trust.
There's a special need trustyes, there's several, and what
I'm also hearing you say is thatthere's a skill level to the
lawyer or the person helping toset the trust up.
Now, why is that?
Vaughn White (14:42):
It's because of the complexity of it.
It's just naturally complex.
Okay, you know, and that's whyyou can't just say, okay, I need
this form.
Somebody can't just contact meand say, hey, do you have a
trust form that I can use?
I can't answer that questionbecause I don't know what you
(15:03):
need.
I see, okay, it might be aspecial needs situation.
It might be a Medicaid assetprotection trust.
Somebody might be old, okay, ornot even that old, but they
know that they're getting upthere in age and they don't want
Medicaid to take their home,you know, if they need long-term
care.
So at least five years prior tothe time that they get sick,
(15:26):
transfer it into an assetprotection trust and you know
the house is still yours, butthat's happening to my aunt
right now.
Keith D. Terry (15:35):
My aunt is suffering from dementia.
She needs to be in a nursinghome and she didn't have her
beautiful house and now theyhave to sell it or rent it or do
something.
And I did not know you talkedabout ignorance.
I didn't know that you can just, you know, put it in a trust,
like two weeks ago, and protectit.
It has to be five years.
So they're in the process ofselling her house right now.
Vaughn White (15:59):
Yeah, yeah, and it happens to so many people that
have your head spinning.
You know, when I use the wordignorance, it's not even to
offend people, it's just we justdon't know so many things and I
think the system profits off ofpeople not knowing.
You know the ignorance ofpeople.
(16:20):
It lends to the ability for somany to make money off of the
process.
Okay, I like that because youknow, ignorance by definition is
a lack of information, right,people?
Keith D. Terry (16:24):
it lends to the ability for so many to make
money off of the process.
Okay, I like that because youknow, ignorance by definition is
a lack of information, right,but people hear that word and
they get so offended, like mywife.
Yeah, they think I'm callingthem ignorant Right right, right
right right or ignorant let'skind of stay on the protection
side.
(16:44):
But, vaughn, we've all heardstories about trust going wrong,
funds being mismanaged,families being devastated.
From your perspective, what isthe biggest risk people should
be aware of?
Vaughn White (16:55):
I think it's who they nominate in their trust and
letting them know that they'rebeing nominated, and I think you
know, just knowing that you cantrust the people that you're
entrusting yourself to Okay, thetypical, most common trust.
You actually manage your owntrust.
Keith D. Terry (17:14):
You are the initial trustee of that trust.
Vaughn White (17:17):
Yes, that's typical of my my trust.
I'm the initial trustee, thenafter that, you know, then my
wife, you know, is the trustee,then after that my children in,
then my wife, you know, is thetrustee, then after that my
children, in a certain order.
Okay.
Keith D. Terry (17:29):
So you're really educating me now.
So in a trust, the most commonis the person who's setting up
the trust and upon that person'sdeath they can assign who goes.
Who's the executor next?
Vaughn White (17:41):
Not just death, but also their incapacity.
If something happens to themand they need somebody to manage
their affairs, that's alsoincluded in the trust.
Keith D. Terry (17:50):
Okay, yeah, okay .
And so how can families protectthemselves from some of the
dishonest folks that exist onthe setup side of trust?
Vaughn White (18:04):
Well, I think number one you know, whoever you
choose as an attorney, first ofall check them out, make sure
that they're legit and that it'snot just some side hustle, it's
not just something that they dooccasionally.
You know you want somebody thatthat, that that knows what
they're doing and that has doneseveral Okay, and then if
they're not asking you detailedquestions and getting proper
(18:28):
information from you, it kind ofwill tell you that they don't
know what they're doing.
Okay, they need to be thorough.
And then you need to trust thepeople that you nominate and
that you entrust yourself to.
Keith D. Terry (18:42):
So that's interesting.
So I would assume that it'sless risky with the lawyer
versus having the proper trustee.
Is that a accurate statement?
Vaughn White (18:52):
Yeah, because the lawyer is going to make sure
that things are written up insuch a way that even your
trustee can't abuse anything.
Okay, that certain permissionsare required, certain
contingencies are in place andthere's so many contingencies.
That's why I cannot givesomebody a form and say use this
(19:13):
form, okay, it's impossible.
Keith D. Terry (19:16):
And how long does it take to set a trust?
Vaughn White (19:17):
up, I usually, typically, will see somebody um
an initial meeting.
Then maybe two weeks later, youknow, unless there's no if, if
there's no emergency, you knowhappening, if they're not, you
know, close to their deathbed orsomething, and you know.
Or if they're not leaving thecountry, you know, in a week,
and they absolutely need to dothis and we want to be thorough.
(19:39):
We want to be thorough.
We're not rushing through andspitting something out as fast
as we can.
It's actually just doing what'sbest for the client and having
them review it and make multiplechanges so we can come up with
(20:00):
a great product.
Keith D. Terry (20:01):
Okay, okay.
So let's shift a little bit.
You know I the way I have thistitle.
I have a title protected.
Grow it and pass it on.
Is it is it accurate that trustcan also be used to grow your
wealth too?
You know it it it.
Vaughn White (20:16):
Uh, it's part of the vehicle as you're growing it
.
It's just the entity.
The trust is really an entity,okay.
So it will not by itselfproduce any growth.
You still produce the growth.
Or your company produces thegrowth, or your financial
advisor helps you produce thegrowth, or your investment
vehicle produces a growth, butyour trust would own that
(20:41):
vehicle, or your trust would bewho your financial person is
going to report to as you'rebuilding your wealth.
So it's part of the growingprocess, but it's not going to
generate the growing process.
I got you, I got you.
Keith D. Terry (20:55):
So let's talk, let's talk.
You have two groups of people.
You have a regular husband andwife and now you have an
entrepreneur.
Should they be thinking abouttrust differently?
And break that down for me andmy listeners?
Vaughn White (21:07):
I think I don't see a huge difference between
the two.
If you run a business, you wantto make sure that that business
is protected and you want tohave succession planning.
Most of us don't think aboutsuccession planning at all in
our business.
We're going to live forever,man.
Think about succession planningat all in our business.
We're going to live forever,man.
(21:27):
You're going to live foreverand you know if you drop dead or
if you're in the hospital allof a sudden what happens to your
operation.
You know who handles theaccounts, who handles the
receivables.
You know the bills that are due, property that you have that
belongs to someone else.
You know all of those things.
Those are all considerations.
So part of my estate planningthat I do with people also is
(21:50):
for their business, to make surethat those things are all laid
out, mapped out, and so it woulddiffer in that sense from a
typical maybe family orsomething, and some people are
in both.
Some people are in both campsat the same time.
How is that?
Keith D. Terry (22:07):
possible, thinking about their family,
yeah, yeah, Now, how is thatpossible?
Vaughn White (22:12):
Well, if they're a business owner, but they're
also a family person, so formany people they're doing
multiple parts of estateplanning as one person.
Yeah, oh, okay, providing fordifferent scenarios like the two
you mentioned.
Keith D. Terry (22:26):
Okay, if I'm sitting question correctly.
Vaughn White (22:47):
Okay, and so right now, do the laws or the legal
structure for setting up askedis well, I'm thinking of moving
to Florida, or I'm thinking ofmoving to North Carolina soon,
or whatever.
Should I wait till I move tothe other state to set it up?
Because, no, it doesn't worklike that.
Typically, states are copycatswhen it comes to estate planning
law and there's also a uniformcode that they pretty much use
(23:09):
and they tend to stick to thescript and mimic each other with
our estate planning laws.
They're not all exactly thesame, but if your trust was
valid in one state, it getsrespected in the next state.
Keith D. Terry (23:23):
You know that's a very good.
That's an interesting point.
You know in one of thecompanies that I was a part of a
startup we were incorporated inDelaware and so I never, when I
think of a trust because I needto set one up myself.
I don't have a trust.
I have a will, of course, and Ididn't think that the trust law
(23:47):
was pertinent from a stateperspective.
So what I'm hearing you say,the only trust you can have is
in the state you physically liveRight and that's not true.
Vaughn White (24:01):
You set it up in the state that you live in,
right.
Okay, please explain Right.
Keith D. Terry (24:07):
Okay, yeah.
Vaughn White (24:07):
So, for instance, I'm an Illinois resident, so I'm
going to set, I'm going to setup my trust here in Illinois, um
, but, and, and and.
I don't want to get toocomplicated, but you can have
multiple trusts.
Keith D. Terry (24:18):
By the way, no, please do Just like.
You can have multiple companiesyou know.
Vaughn White (24:23):
Okay, so you can set up a trust, uh, you know
that, uh, that your, your wife'sassets are protected in that
trust.
You can set up a trust for yourchildren, separate from your
own trust.
You can set up multiple trustsfor one person.
It's not very common, okay, youdon't do that, but it is still
possible.
It is still possible.
Keith D. Terry (24:44):
It is still possible.
Vaughn White (24:45):
Yes, it's still possible and you're not limited
Like, ok, you have a trust,that's the only trust you can
you can have.
That's not true.
Keith D. Terry (24:52):
OK, and so.
Vaughn White (24:53):
But there might be situations where somebody might
set that up, just like you canset up multiple LLC.
Keith D. Terry (24:58):
Yes, and a lot of people do that.
Yeah, a lot of people do that.
And so why would someone have aliving trust if it doesn't
protect you?
Vaughn White (25:07):
Is it in the case of sudden you die, the moment
you die the new trustee willhave direction pay this person,
(25:31):
pay that person, divide myassets.
You know, do this, do that,okay, without seeing a judge,
without seeing a lawyer which isbeautiful, yeah, saving you
thousands, tens of thousands ofdollars.
If I get incapacitated, if Iget sick, something happens to
me, I can't function.
My successor trustee will do X,y and Z, will manage my affairs
(25:57):
, will secure the interests ofmy company, will do this, will
do that without seeing a judge.
I'll give you an example, okay,and out of a couple that came
to me and, uh, the gentleman wasvery, very sick and had a
really bad dementia and he hadsome money tied up with his um,
(26:18):
with his pension, and theyneeded to get to that money and
they wouldn't talk to her.
She's a beneficiary, she was abeneficiary on the account, but
he's not dead, see.
So they would only take effectif he was dead.
Then she could talk to them andsay, hey, you know, we need
(26:38):
access to that money.
So I went to the, I went to thehospital to see him from the
rehab center to see him, and hewas in bad shape, couldn't even
understand anything I was sayingto him.
So I looked at her and I saidwe have to go to court.
And so I filed a guardianshippetition on his behalf and it
(26:59):
cost some good money for me todo that.
I filed it, did everything thatI was supposed to do the day
before we were going to go toguardianship court to get that
guardianship order so that wecan talk to the pension board
order, so that we can talk tothe pension board, so that we
can get his money.
Then he passed away rightbefore, you know, the day before
.
So we went through all thatwheel spinning and they spent a
(27:23):
lot of money and I felt badbecause I was like, wow, you
know, um, I mean, you know Istill provided an important
service, but it's a step thatcould have been avoided.
Gotcha With, you know, withproper planning.
Keith D. Terry (27:39):
So help me to understand the cost of setting
up a trust.
How costly is it?
I mean, I know there's a rangedepending on the complexity of
your assets.
Vaughn White (27:49):
Yes, there is a range and with anything, with
any kind of service, one of thethings that you always have to
watch out for, just like anyservice that you get you order
for your home or personally oranything if somebody comes in
really, really, really low ithas to raise an eyebrow.
(28:09):
A true professional, you knowit is.
if somebody is worth the service, you know it will end up
sometimes being a little bitmore, but I would generally say
you can expect the range to besomewhere around, you know, 3000
to maybe $7,000 or more,depending on the size of the
trust.
Yeah, it could also.
(28:29):
It could.
Also.
This is dependent on the sizeof the trust.
It could also depend on thesize of the assets.
It could go even beyond thatsometimes.
It's just very complicated.
Well, I know it's not Now.
Contrast that, though, withgoing to court and paying
lawyers and paying a retainer.
Keith D. Terry (28:45):
I have, I have.
I mean, the one thing in lifeI've realized is you pay for
what you get, and I agree withyou.
I just know that, incorporatingsome of my companies, you know
people, you can do it online oryou can go to a professional
who's asking you a number ofdifferent questions, which kind
(29:05):
of segues me into.
You know, are theregenerational differences that
you're seeing?
We've got millennials, we'vegot Gen Z, baby boomers.
Are they thinking differentlyabout their legacy, about their
assets?
Because there are some verywealthy millennials and there
are some very wealthy Gen Z-ers.
What are you seeing?
Vaughn White (29:29):
You know I'm going to speak to that.
I recently talked to a group ofyoung people there's this young
professional group in ourchurch that met and they like to
talk about topics sometimes andthey asked me to come and speak
to that.
They were just so attentive towhat I was saying and taken in
(29:52):
very, very seriously.
And I've spoken to groups ofolder folks sometimes and I get
the opposite and it reallysurprised me that it was flipped
in my mind.
You know, I thought the verything that the you know, the
older folks like my you know I'm61, you know and you know
(30:13):
people in you know our moremature age group and above you
would think that this is kind ofstuff that they would think
about more.
But we can sometimes be morestubborn than the younger folks,
you know, and we don't need itbecause, guess what?
It hasn't happened yet.
So because something hasn'thappened, it's not going to
happen.
Keith D. Terry (30:36):
Yeah, you know that's interesting and I'm going
to pause there for a moment,which is why I kind of brought
in legacy.
I think you have some folks whodon't really care about their
legacy and let me phrase thatbecause if you disagree with me,
let me hear from you.
But this is what I mean.
I generally think people careabout whether they're considered
(30:58):
nice or mean, but to me, when Ithink of a component of legacy
is how I leave my family, thestrength of my family, if my
children are down and out.
And it hits me.
I think I shared with you whenwe were playing golf.
I lost my youngest child andthat changed me.
(31:19):
It changed me because you know,in my mind I never thought that
I would outlive any of my kids.
So as I think about legacy now,I think about, yes, keith's
done some good work, vaughn'sdone some good work, but if I've
left my family destitute uponmy death, then I don't think my
(31:39):
legacy is so great.
Now, that's my definition.
I don't know if other folkshave it, which is why I asked
the question about thedifferences in generation,
because earlier I said at 18,full of piss and vinegar, that I
could swim inside of the mouthof a shark and survive.
Vaughn White (32:02):
Now I don't even want to go into the water, so
that's where I am no-transcriptwho tell me, vaughn, I don't
(32:40):
have anything, so I don't needto do this.
Literally, they say they havenothing, and I talk to them
further and it turns out theyhave a house.
Keith D. Terry (32:48):
Yeah, and it turns out they have a house.
Vaughn White (32:50):
Yeah, okay, they have cars, they have a
retirement account, they havelife insurance, they have
children, they havegrandchildren.
Sometimes, you know, and I'mlike what do you mean?
You have nothing?
Okay, they think that they'renot wealthy.
Yeah, and I didn't say anythingabout being wealthy, I just
(33:12):
said about protecting what youhave.
Okay, so your mindset needs tobe I am blessed and I want to
make sure that that blessing isprotected and to bless my family
with that blessing.
So I think that's the approachand then reach out, reach out,
don't, don't.
Don't be afraid of the process.
People are genuinely afraid, orthey just think it's way too
(33:36):
complicated and it's not.
Keith D. Terry (33:39):
Well, I appreciate that.
I think if people understoodthe punitive component of
probate.
So help frame that, if youcould for a typical American
family.
Help frame that, if you couldfor a typical American family.
How much of a tax implicationis it if you don't have these
(33:59):
protections in place?
That might help people tounderstand why you're such an
important part of their wealthprotection plan.
Vaughn White (34:03):
You know, it's not even about the estate.
Taxes is a very high thresholdand most Americans don't even
have to worry about that.
It's more of the punitive partof it is more of having to pay
lawyers to go to court and thenhaving, and so you're going to
(34:23):
pay your lawyer, then you'regoing to pay.
Sometimes you pay a guardian adlitem, which is a guardian
appointed by the court, which isanother lawyer, so now you're
paying two lawyers on the sameestate, I see.
And then you're spending andthe estate might not be that big
, I see, but it would bedevastating to that estate if
(34:46):
there's like $100, blowing, youknow, $20,000 of it on legal
fees just to get to the money.
Keith D. Terry (34:57):
I want to.
I want to.
You know, pick your brain onPrince.
Prince died suddenly, but heleft.
He had a whole lot of money.
And so do you know much aboutthat that you can kind of help
claim that?
Vaughn White (35:12):
And full disclosure.
I haven't dug deep into it, Ijust have a glancing reference
as to what happened with thatestate and from what I know or I
think I know is that Prince didnot have a proper estate plan,
did not put a trust, all thatstuff, and so it was just left
to.
You know, whatever the legalsystem said, you know needs to
(35:33):
take place and people'sinterests and chaos.
You know, if he had literallyhad and I don't want people to
go, well, I'm not Prince so yeah, no, no, no, but it's a good
lesson in if he had written allof that stuff out right as young
as he was, he wasn't expectedto die.
(35:55):
No, he wasn't.
No, you know, like 50 somethingor what was he?
54, 55 something, yeah, exactlyeven malcolm ball warner.
I mean, you know you know, wecan go on and on about people
who die suddenly you know.
Yeah, so you know, it's thismindset that it's something that
(36:17):
I don't have to think aboutright now and we just get rid of
that mindset.
And if he had changed hismindset and I don't know if
there are other reasons why, Idon't know if there- were
religious reasons or otherreasons why he didn't do that.
Keith D. Terry (36:31):
I don't know if there were religious reasons or
other reasons why he didn't dothat, and I'm going to make an
assumption as well that a trustcan help a family be more
harmonious than having a bunchof conflict as well.
Is that?
Vaughn White (36:40):
an accurate statement, absolutely.
There's nothing better thanclarity, like I did my wife's
aunt's estate plan recently, andshe didn't have a whole lot.
She didn't have much ofanything, but I did a simple
letters of direction and powersof attorney, things like that,
and what her wishes were whenshe passed away.
And it's amazing how, whenpeople see this stuff in writing
(37:05):
, they don't fight, they justdon't.
They just don't Because it'sthe absence of it that makes
people fight, because they thinkyou're hiding something or they
think that because it's notaddressed, hey, it's my
opportunity to say what I wantor what I would do as it relates
to that person and what theyhave.
(37:25):
But it is very clear thisperson gets the car, this person
gets this, this person getsthat.
Divide this account in such andsuch a way you know, or lump
everything together, dispose ofit and then divide it among my
children, whatever.
Then your children are notgoing crazy.
(37:46):
Or one's seeing this lawyer,another one is seeing this other
lawyer.
It's very clear.
So it actually brings harmony.
Keith D. Terry (37:52):
Get it now, you know you brought a lot of
clarity to the picture here.
Vaughn White (37:58):
That I forgot to silence the phone.
Keith D. Terry (38:01):
So we're, we're, we're, we're getting to the end
here.
Von, if someone is listeningand feels overwhelmed kind of a
generic question how should theystart?
Just pick up the phone and giveyou a jingle.
Vaughn White (38:09):
Or should they?
Keith D. Terry (38:10):
go to a financial advisor first.
Vaughn White (38:12):
You know they can go to their financial advisor,
especially if they really trustyou know somebody they really
trust.
But I encourage people I talkwith so many people, keith, that
I give free advice to you know,and I probably do it too much,
you know, and I probably do ittoo much, you know I probably
could make more, you know it.
(38:32):
Just, it's just how I'm wired.
Okay, I probably do it too muchand that's okay All right,
because I believe that I'mblessed when I just give more.
So I talk to people and I and Ijust give as much information
as I can so that they can makethose decisions I see.
So I just encourage them reachout, call the phone number, call
630-429-9010, 630-429-9010, orthey can go to vwhitelawcom.
Keith D. Terry (39:05):
One final question for you.
Question is what do you wantyour legacy to be?
Vaughn White (39:13):
Wow.
What I want my legacy to be isI want them to know man, my
family and my community to knowthis was a hardworking brother
who left his family in a bettersituation than they could have
ever been in and took care ofhis family and provided for them
even in his death, you know,and then left a mark and
(39:34):
impacted many, many souls.
That's what I want my legacy tobe.
Keith D. Terry (39:39):
Great, thank you .
Protect it, grow it, pass it on.
That's the blueprint Von White.
Thank you very much forbringing clarity and wisdom to
this show.
I really really appreciate itFor everyone listening.
Don't just think about yourlegacy Start building it now.
Thanks for listening to theNext Big Thing.
(39:59):
I'm your host, keith D Terry.
If you've enjoyed this episodeand you'd like to support this
podcast, please share it withothers, post about it on social
media or leave a rating and areview.
To catch all the latest from me, you can follow me on my
YouTube channel at Keith D Terry.
If you want to recommend aguest, please email me at info
(40:20):
at terryperformancegroupcom.
This has been produced by yourhost and Jade Productions.
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