July 9, 2025 • 51 mins
In this powerful episode of The NEXT BIG THING with Keith D. Terry, Dr. Patreece Broadus joins to explore the evolving intersection of communication, identity, and influence in the digital age. From “call and response” traditions in HBCU classrooms to the rise of AI-generated content, Dr. Broadus unpacks what it truly means to be heard—and how thought leaders can use voice as a tool for impact.
We dive into:
- The individual power behind authentic communication
- How cultural norms shape perception and presence
- What today’s leaders must know about influence in the Voice Economy
Whether you're a speaker, educator, entrepreneur, or emerging changemaker, this episode challenges you to own your truth and lead with intention.
🎧 Listen now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart Radio, or YouTube @keithdterry
#CommunicationMatters #VoiceEconomy #LeadershipDevelopment #KeithDTerry
Send us your thought on this episode.
Keith D. Terry and JJaed Productions, LLC produced this episode. www.jjaedproductions.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the podcast the Next Big Thing.
I'm your host, keith D Terry, aconsultant, a coach and a
serial entrepreneur.
The mission here is to teach,inspire and to motivate.
Today's episode is powerful andtimely because we're diving
into the evolving world ofcommunication.
(00:20):
You heard me say itcommunication From stone
carvings to smartphones.
We've always found ways to shareour stories faster, further and
louder.
But here's the truth Access hasnever been equal.
Historically, the power tospeak and truly be heard has
been tied to privilege, likewho's got the mic, who gets
(00:41):
erased.
Now, in this world whereeveryone is talking, we have to
ask this very important questionwho's actually being listened
to?
Because power of communicationdoesn't lie in the platforms,
social TikTok and all that.
It is tied to the person, yourvoice, your truth, your story.
That's the power.
So how did we get here?
(01:02):
I, like I always do, I do ahistorical perspective and I
just want to do that right now.
From the 1980s to 2000, what Icall the mass media era,
gatekeepers control thenarrative.
Still, bold voices rose upthrough churches, community
centers and grassroots movements.
Then we shift to the 2000s to2020, what I call the social
(01:24):
media surge.
That forms gave everyone a mic,but equity didn't follow,
because algorithms rewardedoutrage, the crazy, still
consistent, authentic voiceschanged laws, changed lives and
was able to reach people andchange their mindsets.
Then we shift to what I call2020, the future, and this is
(01:44):
what I call the voice economyand the AI age.
Technology can mimic your voiceyes, it can, but in a sea of
noise, human authenticity is nowthe most valuable currency.
We've reached a moment wherecommunication is less about
clever words and more about thepresence behind them.
It's about identity, purposeand the tone that carries your
(02:08):
truth.
So what does this all mean forthe next generation of leaders
To help us unpack this?
I am truly honored to have ourguest here.
Her name is Dr Patrice Broadus.
Let me say a few words abouther.
Dr Patrice Brodess is theassistant professor of
communication at MissouriBaptist University, with over 15
years of experience teachingtopics like intercultural
(02:31):
communication, race and publicspeaking.
She's held faculty roles acrossthe South and the Midwest,
including St Louis University,and has trained both students
and professionals incommunication and leadership.
Dr Brodis earned her PhD fromSouthern Illinois University in
Carbondale, where she studiedAfrican-American identity and
(02:53):
culture, with a focus on checkthis out, call and response
communication in HBCU classrooms.
I want to dig into that one.
She's a published scholar,seasoned speaker and a
passionate advocate for usingyour voice as a tool for him to
pack Dr Broadus.
Welcome to the Next Big Thing.
How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Thank you so much, keith.
I appreciate that warm welcomeand that wonderful introduction.
Thank you, I'm very pleased tobe here.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Well, thank you.
Ok, well, let's get into it,but before we do that, tell the
audience where do you come from?
Who is?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
that.
Well, originally I'm a Southerngal.
So I'm originally fromMississippi, so I'm accustomed
to iced tea and lemonade andhats on a hot summer day.
As a matter of fact, my husbandand I just finished this
morning having a nice wonderfulwalk in the shady part of the
park, so I made sure that I camehome, got ready, made sure I
got my little Southern girlthing going on here, Because you
(03:50):
know you always have to be alady when you're in Southern.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
There you go, so you're from Mississippi All
right Born and raised inMississippi.
Yes, Well, let's get into this.
You spent over 15 yearsteaching communication across
the South and the Midwest.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
What inspired your passion in this field.
Here's the funny thing, keith Inever thought I would be in
higher education.
I never thought I would be aneducator, and that's because
both of my parents wereeducators.
My father was a band director,college band director and
ultimately a department chair.
My mother was in elementaryeducation, and so I grew up in
education, and so my wholethought was teachers are
(04:26):
overworked, they're underpaid.
I'm not going to do that.
I'm going to do something.
I'm going to make me some money, I'm going to get a business,
I'm going to have a big, hugeoffice on the 25th or 50th floor
, somewhere like in New York, etcetera.
And obviously that was not whatGod had planned.
So that's why I say you canmake all the wonderful plans
that you want to, but when Godhas a plan and a path for you,
he's got to let you say okay,that's good, I'm going to let
(04:47):
you go all your way.
Now you're going to do what Ineed you to do.
So I really just kind of gotinto education because after I
finished my undergraduate degreeand it was in journalism and
was still trying to figure outexactly what I wanted to do, out
exactly what I wanted to do, soI went into, so I went to
graduate school and things justkind of started opening up and
(05:07):
started clicking for me there interms of okay, well, let's see
where we can go with this.
This is really interesting andthat's kind of how I got on that
path from print journalism tospeech, communication and higher
education.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Okay, and so, as we dig into this, was there a
moment when you realized thatyour voice had real influence or
impact?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I tell you what.
Yes, and I'll tell you how.
I thought how that came across.
Again, in graduate school.
I was what's known as a TA, andso the TAs for the
communication department had tocome in and you had to have
training, right, and we werehaving training in terms of how
should we teach our publicspeaking courses, and so the
(05:48):
graduate student who was runningit for us, or running that
particular session for us, wasexplaining that certain students
, when they would be deliveringspeeches.
He gave an example in hisclassrooms.
He was stating that withinAfrican-American speech, he was
stating that sometimesyouAmerican speech, he was
stating that sometimes somepeople will talk back while the
(06:08):
person is delivering a speech.
Because remember again, intraditional Western value in
terms of how we've been taughtabout speeches, you let the
speaker give his or her speech,they complete and then we
applaud correct.
But, he was stating that don'tbe shocked, et cetera, when if
someone says you go, girl, orda-da-da when they're delivering
the speech.
He said that's just part of thepattern, and I thought
(06:31):
something about that clicked forme in terms of why is this
person trying to validate my wayof speaking or the type of
speech patterns that I've heardthroughout my life, and why does
that need validation?
Don't worry about that, that'san okay as though that's all
right.
That's kind of what they do.
Now, again, this is not talkingabout him negatively in any way
(06:54):
, because I knew him, we werefriends, et cetera, and he was a
really nice person.
But he just had to explain thatand it was odd to me that he
had to explain it, as well as tomy colleague also who was going
through the program with me,and we just thought, well,
that's odd in terms of why doesthat need to be explained?
Why does that need to be?
Speaker 1 (07:12):
validated.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Just that in terms of now you'll have some students,
and I think he said we get somestudents from inner cities, et
cetera.
But he was explaining that andthis is what happened, because
he explained that this was ayoung black lady that was giving
her speech, a young blackstudent.
And the young lady in theaudience said you go, girl,
while she was delivering herpresentation.
And he was saying don't look atthat as disruptive or count
(07:37):
that as something negativeagainst the student, it's fine.
That's just kind of what isdone, because, again, in our
traditional Western way ofspeaking, in which we've been
taught, the speaker deliver hisor her speech, you don't
interrupt the speaker, you letthem complete the presentation
and then you applaud and giveyour reaction at that time.
But, of course, in call andresponse, the audience responds
(07:59):
to the speaker, et cetera.
And he was explaining.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Boy, you're absolutely right about that.
I mean, you go to churches.
You're depending on thecultural component of where you
are.
Boy, you know, if people wellI'll just say it you go to
you're in a black audience,you're going to hear about it.
You know, it's like the Apollotheater, right, if you're bad,
they're going to snatch you off.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Exactly, exactly, but it's the communication, it's a
pattern, it's a way of relatingto the audience.
The speaker and the audienceare both working together in
this particular sense, andthat's what I'm saying.
What was odd to me in terms ofthat was normal.
That was behavior that didn'tneed to be explained to me, and
I'm thinking why does that needto be validated to someone else?
(08:40):
Why does my way of speaking, orthe way of speaking which I've
been accustomed to and I'velearned, why does that need to
be validated?
Why does that need to beexplained?
Why does that need to be giventhe okay?
I know it's okay.
Why does this group need toknow that?
it's okay, and that's kind ofwhat got me started into
learning more about culture andintercultural communication and
the role of speech patterns, andthen, ultimately, education,
(09:03):
which is how I came across mydissertation title.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Is it fair to say that all that means your voice?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yes, I think it refers to your voice and also
the cultural understanding thatyour voice has you.
What does that necessarily meanto you and the significance to
your community as well?
Because if my voice is negatedor if someone says that that's
not important, then of coursethat's telling me that who I am,
what I have to say, myexperiences, my lived
(09:29):
experiences aren't significantor important as well, or they
aren't as important as the other.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Got it and so you know.
Here is I wonder what yourthoughts are, and what does it
really mean to have a voice?
And the reason that I ask thatis that some I mean right now,
everybody can have a voice.
And the reason that I ask thatis that some I mean right now
everybody can have a platform ifthey want.
There's TikTok, there'sFacebook, there's Instagram, and
you know, as a communicationspecialist, what does it mean to
have a voice?
(09:55):
Is it just me picking up themic and talking, or do I need to
have a powerful following bereally impactful?
Any thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
I think there are two different ways we can look at
this.
One is almost anyone can have avoice.
If you have the right equipment, anybody can get anything said.
As long as you can set that up,you can have a voice.
But I think what we're alsogetting at is the role that you
hold as a speaker when you getready to broadcast, when you
(10:27):
have a mic, et cetera.
What are your ethical goalsthat you have as a speaker?
Now, as an undergraduate, like Iwas telling you earlier, my
undergraduate degree was inprint journalism, so we were
taught as journalists.
This is what you do.
This is not about you.
You are to deliver the facts.
What are the facts?
The who, what, when.
(10:48):
That was again the basics who,what, when.
Don't diverge from that.
Don't give your opinion aboutit.
Who did this?
When did it occur?
What time did it occur?
Where did it occur?
And that's what you do, andit's a certain way in which we
were taught.
I'm trying not to get to theboring journalism part in terms
of how we start with the widelens and then we focus down to
(11:08):
it, but that was really trulyabout the ethics in terms of
what your job is as a journalist.
So my question to individualswho do decide that they want to
broadcast and they do want tohave a public voice what is it
that you intend with your voicevoice?
What is it that you intend withyour voice?
(11:29):
What is your particular goaland, at the core of it, what are
your ethical reasons, what isyour ethical responsibility as a
speaker, and do you take thatserious?
Speaker 1 (11:35):
That is very interesting that you bring
ethics up, because I think somepeople I'll ask if you think
there is a standard definitionof ethics, but that's really not
where I want to go.
Next, I wanted to talk a littlebit about all of that from a
cultural perspective.
In the United States, it'sstill no matter what the White
House is saying.
They're trying to make Americathis, that, or they take this
(11:56):
that there are still so manydifferent cultures.
And let's just you know, Iguess, from my perspective, in
what ways do cultural normsdefine who gets heard in the
classroom, in the boardroom andeven in churches?
You just mentioned the call andresponse.
Yes, I'm used to that, but I'malso used to going up and
(12:20):
starting from A to Z in myspeech, or whatever I'm going to
say, and taking what comesafterwards.
But I'm African-American, I'man American, I'm a Midwesterner,
born in Gary, raised in Chicago, and that's who I am.
And so, from a culturalstandpoint, I'm really curious,
because culture impacts so manythings.
(12:40):
What's your take on the impactof culture, invoice and who gets
heard?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Man, there's so many things to unpack there.
So let me try.
I want to go with the examplethat you gave, that you said you
know that you're from theMidwest, you know, et cetera,
and you're accustomed to,obviously, the communication
that occurs within the Blackchurch, et cetera.
Let me give you an example ofhow our culture impacts our way
of thinking, et cetera.
If I say we're talking about, Iwant to get from you a
(13:10):
carbonated beverage that issweet and refreshing, now,
depending upon where you're from, is it Coke, is it soda, is it
pop?
And so you see where I'm goingwith this In terms of where we
were raised, what communitieswere we brought in?
That's what it is.
I'm thinking pop is one thing,but no, for you it's soda or for
(13:30):
you it's Coke, et cetera.
So, again, our culturalupbringing I won't even say our
cultural upbringing, I just ourculture is going to influence.
Culture is so significant inthat it influences how we
perceive ourselves, how weperceive others, how we perceive
our environment and, ultimately, our behaviors and our
reactions as well.
(13:50):
So that's kind of where thefoundation is, is that's why
culture is important, and if weunderstand culture, we have to
understand worldview.
So I don't want to get too faroff topic from where you want to
go, but what we have tounderstand.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
No, I'm following you .
I'm following you Teach theclass.
But what I have to understandno, I'm following you.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I'm following you Teach the class.
But what I want to state isthat culture is significant.
Culture is what drives us eachand every day, and culture is so
deeply embedded with us thatoftentimes culture is that which
is hard to define.
We don't really understand thesignificance and the impact of
our culture, and, ultimately,our cultural identity, until
it's juxtaposed against another.
So that's why, in the examplethat I gave you before regarding
(14:30):
when I was in graduate school,I didn't realize that was an
aspect of my culture till thatgraduate student brought it up.
So, again, I wasn't reallyaware of that having cultural
significance or that beingculture, until it was juxtaposed
against another.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Okay, tell me, tell me, tell me if you agree or
disagree, if you have adifferent perspective, because I
want to get into.
I think culture impacts style,but I think style can be, I can
be, can be learned.
I don't think culture can,because I'm influenced by my
mother and my father and myfamily and my neighborhood and
those become cultural components.
And so as I think about, youknow, this whole notion of who
(15:10):
gets heard, I think aboutcommunication styles.
Is there a communication stylethat that is more powerful than
another or is unfairly labeledmore aggressive or conservative
than others?
And this is where I'm talkingabout style.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
So, in terms of communication, style you're
saying in terms of the way Ispeak.
Is that going to influence howI get heard, or if I get heard?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
If you consider that style, I'm just saying, you know
, take Barack Obama, barackObama has a style right.
Take the mayor of your city andthe mayor of my city, church
leaders, you know, even you, asa professor, you get up every
day and you have a style ofspeaking.
I have a style of a podcast,and so I just know that in
today's platform, some folkshave more power, they get heard
(16:03):
and style matters, does it not?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
I look at it in this sense of where I'm going with
that, in terms of who gets heardor whose style is listened to.
I think it comes from, again,culture, in terms of knowing
your audience and knowing what'sgoing to appeal to your
audience.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
And so, therefore, as the speaker, what I'm going to
do is I'm going to utilize thatcommunication.
I'm going to use thatcommunication means that I feel
is going to reach out most ofyou as my audience.
So, for example, if I'mspeaking to a group of fifth
graders or a group of elementaryschool students, I'm going to
talk to them a specific way inwhich I think is going to impact
(16:45):
them, in which I'm going tohave to connect with them
Because, again, as the speaker,what I need to do is connect
with my audience.
My audience has to see me as acredible speaker before they're
going to necessarily listen tomy message.
So I'm going to construct it inthat sense, just as if I'm going
to speak to a group of lawyersor doctors or attorneys and
(17:07):
lawyers are the same thing orprofessional individuals.
I'm going to construct mymessage in a way in which I feel
they're going to receive it, orat least I have to come across
to them as a credible speaker.
So, if we're talking aboutstyle in that sense, yes, as a
speaker, what I have to do istailor my message so that my
audience can best understand mymessage, and one of the ways in
(17:29):
which I do that is, again am Icoming across as credible?
Does my audience feel as thoughI've got their best interest at
heart?
Does my audience feel as thoughthey can connect with me?
Does my audience feel as thoughthey are safe with me, etc.
So those are the types ofthings that I am going to do if
I'm going to make certain, or ifI'm going to try to connect
(17:50):
with my audience and makecertain, that my audience gets
my message, whether I'm tryingto persuade them or whether I'm
simply just trying to inform myaudience.
And so there are different modes, different cultures.
Oh I'm sorry, Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
No, no, finish your thought.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
There are different cultures.
We have different stylesbecause certain cultural
communities have differentstyles of communicating.
Some cultures are moreboisterous than others and I'm
not talking about just Americancultures, I'm just talking about
cultures from all over theworld, for example, sometimes
Eastern cultures or Westerncultures, et cetera In terms of
(18:25):
there's a more boisterous,flamboyant communication style.
Others are more reserved,others are not necessarily
direct, so you can have anindirect communication style.
Others are more reserved,others are not necessarily
direct, so you can have anindirect communication style.
You can have a directcommunication style.
In the United States, forexample, in Western American
culture, we have more of adirect communication style.
If I have a problem with you,I'm going to tell you look, this
(18:47):
is my problem.
I need you to do this.
I need you to speed up, I needyou to slow down.
What's the problem here?
You need to make it clear toaround it, because what's more
important is the actual contextthe situation as opposed to the
direct communication that's notculturally appropriate.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Well, let me throw another curve in here.
Does sex impact voice?
A woman versus a man?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Wow, yes, and I'm going to say yes simply because
of what we've been taught.
Remember again this is how weare taught.
Please do tell Dr Broadus whenwe are born, right, when we are
born and how we are labeled,right.
Okay, so, generally speakingand again, this is not a stamp
Boom, all women talk this way.
(19:50):
Or boom, all men speak this way.
Or boom, all women talk thisway.
Or boom, all men speak this way.
Or boom, all women communicatethat.
But what we have to understandis that, generally speaking,
there are certain styles,certain patterns, et cetera,
that women may exhibit, more sothan men.
Men might be more boisterous,and there's been research that's
been conducted on this in termsof women, let's say, making
(20:12):
more in terms of I believe or Ihope, or what I'd like to see,
et cetera, using those types ofI don't want to say disclaimers,
but using those types ofterminology where men might say
I want do this, da da da.
You see what I mean In terms ofhow women use certain
communications patterns and menuse certain communication
(20:32):
patterns.
And then if women use certainstyles, communicative styles or
patterns that men generallyadopt, then of course women
might be labeled a certain thing.
Now, whether or not they acceptthat label or not, that could
be a label that others place onthose individuals or those women
.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
So yes, know it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Women do.
Technically, research has foundthat women do use different
communication styles or patterns, etc.
But that's not to state thatall women do this, all women do
that or all men do.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
So so so the reason that I I asked that, well, not
the reason.
When I look at the followingfemale leaders, obviously I
think about Kamala Harris tryingto convince the American people
to vote for her.
I think of Nancy Pelosi.
I think of the mayor of LA Ican't think of her name right
(21:27):
now.
I think of Margaret Thatcher.
I think of other people youknow.
I thought these women wereincredibly gifted speakers.
You know what I think aboutwhen you said direct.
I do think Americans are verydirect.
However, when I think aboutstyle, I think I love what you
said about you have to picturewho you're trying to speak to in
(21:47):
order for that to be yourtarget audience.
And so, when I think aboutthose women, do you see them
having a common style or patternor technique?
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Here's what I'm going to say, a little bit
differently, because you putMargaret Thatcher in there.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
On purpose.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
On purpose, and here's what I want to say about
that.
Remember again, margaretThatcher had a position
obviously of leadership withinthe UK, correct?
Yes, yes, had a positionobviously of leadership within
the UK, correct?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
But the culture of the UK, remember again.
She had to be accepting of her.
You see what I mean.
I see what you're saying Interms of in that particular
culture, in that particularsociety, yes, women could have
that type of leadership.
I don't know if we'venecessarily gotten to that
particular point in the UnitedStates Now.
(22:33):
I don't know.
Again, I'm not from the UK,that's not my culture.
I don't know what it is to belived and embedded within that
culture in terms of beliefs, interms of leadership, in terms of
who can be a leader, in termsof what they want from their
leader, etc.
So, in terms of overall style,I would say, from what I could
(22:54):
see from clips etc.
That all of the women were veryvocal in terms of their
thoughts, in terms of beliefs,in terms of their education, in
terms of their experience, etc.
But in terms of how those womenare perceived and how those
women are received and how thosepeople are looked at as
credible is culturally based.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
I'll agree with that.
Let's move on here and let'stalk a little bit about emerging
leaders.
Are there certain skills thatemerging leaders should work on?
They need to develop in orderto be heard, trusted and
especially in this noisy worldwe are living in?
Speaker 2 (23:30):
In terms of just a flat out skill.
I think one of the skills thatwe need to build upon is
listening skills.
I think listening is asignificant aspect of
communication and I don't thinkwe're taught very well how to
listen, and this is where I'mcoming from with that.
(23:51):
For example, when you go tocollege, or even when you're in
high school, you have to take apublic speaking class.
So we're taught a lot how totalk, how to speak, but we
aren't taught a lot how tolisten.
Where did you see in yourcollege curriculum where they
said, okay, you have to takethis listening course.
We're not doing that?
Never exactly.
(24:12):
So I think that's a key aspectthat we have to wish.
Good leaders, in order tocommunicate well, also need to
be good listeners.
But again, where are we taughtthat?
And the reason why I'm goingthere, keith, is because when we
look at statistics, when welook at research regarding why
people, let's say, leave theirpositions, it's not necessarily
(24:34):
because they don't like whatthey do.
It's because they feel asthough they aren't being heard,
they aren't, their managers, etcetera, are not creating an
environment for them.
So people don't leave jobs perse and you've probably heard
this before because of theirposition and what they're doing.
It's more so because of thecommunication that's there.
(24:55):
So I think leaders really needto understand the role of
communication, and not justyou've got to do this.
Obviously, if you're a leader,if you're a manager, if you're
an executive, obviously you needto have your employees.
You need to have your teamswork toward a particular goal.
Well, how do you get them towork toward that particular goal
(25:18):
?
What are you communicating tothem about the value that they
bring to that team?
Communicating to them in termsof how you respect their thought
processes, you respect theirexpertise, et cetera, or are you
, you know, some people talkabout micromanaging someone over
(25:40):
me, et cetera.
You know, constantly, you know,checking each and everything I
do.
Well, if you're constantlychecking each and everything I
do, then you're saying obviouslyyou don't necessarily trust my
work, or you don't trust myparticular thought processes, et
cetera.
When it comes to this, nowagain, I'm not stating that
every manager oh, how's the kidsdoing?
And da, da, da, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
You don't need that yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
You can't get anybody on the hand.
But in that particularenvironment, in that particular
communication context, what isyour role as manager, what is
your role as leader?
How do you get the individualsto believe in your vision and
your vision for the company andyour vision for, at least, maybe
, perhaps, what your departmentis to achieve, et cetera?
Speaker 1 (26:23):
To recap, I'm hearing you say that emerging leaders
need to become better listeners,because at first I struggled
with that and I was going topush back a little bit.
That's all right.
I absolutely think you're right, but I also know that, having
led a lot of differentorganizations, I think a lot of
people aren't necessarily clearon what they're trying to say.
(26:46):
I think you're absolutely right.
Folks need to become betterlisteners.
Being an active listener is ahard thing to do, so I think
you're right.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
And listening again is not just to the verbal, but
it's listening to the nonverbalas well, because we, as people,
we put so much emphasis ashumans, we put a lot of emphasis
on the nonverbal as well.
So it's not just what is beingsaid, but it's how it's being
said.
Said, but it's how it's beingsaid.
(27:16):
So what is that?
You know, what is that personexplaining to you?
Because you've got to be ableto peel through and see okay, is
this really about?
Is this really and I'm going togo, let's say, use an example
for a corporate person so isthis really about you not
getting this particular officeor this particular desk, or is
it really the fact thatso-and-so came in and just
surpassed you in this particularposition, or you were
(27:39):
overlooked, or you felt asthough someone overlooked you or
didn't understand what you weretrying to do, et cetera.
So it's really about kind ofunpacking what's really being
said here.
And if you listen enough andagain, that's why we don't
understand the power of silenceas well you can kind of let
people unpack, people talk.
When people are given thatspace, they'll continue to
(28:01):
unpack.
That's why sometimes all youhave to do is just sit back and
listen and they'll keep tellingyou more.
They'll keep telling you more,and I think it's imperative upon
leaders to understand whattheir particular role is and how
significant communication is.
Let me give a more specificexample.
I didn't mean to ramble.
I was speaking with someone whowas corporate and she was in
(28:23):
customer service and she was amanager of customer service, and
this lady called in franticbecause her child didn't get
their shoes in time.
Now, this was Christmas Eve orsomething like that Child didn't
get the shoes.
Why are they supposed to behere?
So the parent was irate and soshe kept listening and listening
to what the lady was saying.
So it wasn't necessarily aboutthe shoes themselves, even
(28:44):
though that's their product.
The mother was upset becauseshe wouldn't have anything to
give to her child on ChristmasDay because the shoes didn't
arrive.
So, as the manager the personI'm talking about she said OK, I
can't get you the shoes, buthere's what I'm going to do I'm
going to immediately send you a$50 or $100 gift card, et cetera
(29:04):
, and that way you can purchasesomething immediately so your
child can have something.
So it's about being able toreally truly listen, see what
the problem is, what the issueis and resolve it in that sense.
So again, communication plays arole in that, because if you're
trying to really and trulyunderstand the situation,
understand the problem, thenyou've got to be able to listen
and again listen to the problem,listen to the person.
(29:27):
If you're there visually, whatare those nonverbal cues that
you are getting as well?
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Okay, well, this takes me to let's go a little
deeper.
How does race, gender andsocioeconomic background impact
someone's using their voice andthe power of it?
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Here we go.
So what we have to understandis that in each and every
communicative interaction, thereis power, is present.
Now, whether we're, it's notalways evident.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
However and you use the word power.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Yes, yes, okay, power , and what I mean by that is
whose voice gets heard, so tospeak.
That's what I mean by power, andwhat power can be both
voluntary and involuntary.
But also, what I'm getting atis this like I stated, within
each and every society, each andevery society, there are those
(30:17):
social structures that givecertain groups more power and
privilege than other groups.
Now, whether it's based uponrace, whether it's based upon
gender, whether it's based upona religion, religious beliefs,
et cetera, there's always apower structure there, there is
always an element of power.
(30:38):
Again, in communicativeinteractions, again, whether we
are aware of them or not, in aclassroom, for example,
generally the teacher is the onethat's going to have the power,
correct, Because the teacher isthe one who sets the schedule,
the teacher is the one who setsthe policies, the teacher is the
one who grades papers, theteacher is the one who sets
(30:59):
assignments, et cetera.
So that would be, in a sense,power, but that's power from the
social position that I hold.
You see what I mean.
I do In terms of in thatparticular setting.
Now, if we go out of thatclassroom setting and let's say
one of those students is apolice officer, and then that
(31:20):
faculty member gets pulled overby the student who's a police
officer, who has the power inthat sense, that student who is
not in the role of student nowbut in the role of police
officer, but what?
The role that they're holdingin that particular position?
And that's what I mean in termsof we have the roles that we
hold.
And then there are those otherthings, voluntary and
(31:41):
involuntary positions, voluntaryin terms of those things we
cannot necessarily readilychange.
And that goes back to mydefinition of power and sense,
depending upon, maybe, my.
We can't generally change yourrace, you can't generally change
your ethnicity, you can'tgenerally change your gender et
cetera, those are things thatyou cannot necessarily change.
Then there are those voluntarypositions that we have where we
(32:04):
can change.
We could change our maritalstatus, we can change our
educational status, we canchange where we live, et cetera.
So those are things that canchange.
So, again, depending upon whichvoluntary or involuntary group
we have, there's power and, likeI stated, power is not just
based upon I think a lot oftimes we think it's just race
and gender, but again it dependsupon also role.
(32:27):
And again, in that society,whichever society that we're in,
what group has the socialstructure.
I'll tell you my bias what doesthat particular group and
remember again that group thathas power to a general extent
determines the communicationpatterns of everyone else within
that society?
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Well, I'll tell you some of my bias.
Thank you for what you justsaid, because there's a lot of
truth in it, but I do think, andI'm going to say a couple
things, and you tell me whereI'm wrong, because you, but I do
think, and I'm going to say acouple of things, and you tell
me, you tell me where I'm wrong,because you use the word power,
and I'm going to stay there fora second and you said, and you
said, power is equivalent to whogets hurt, right?
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Yes, who, and in terms of who holds that
particular power in that socialstructure, in that particular
side what is?
Speaker 1 (33:09):
that social structure OK but you said, power is who
gets hurt, whatever the contextis I'm going to say men get
heard more than women.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Okay, keep going.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
I'm going to say that the majority, that well I'm
going to say rich people, getheard more than poor people.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
And it's unfair because it's not always true,
because the best voices aresometimes the quiet voices, and
so I just think that that's kindof the bias in this country,
that men get heard more thanwomen.
And if people are listening tome, send me a note, react to
what I'm saying.
I don't believe it's true, butI think in this country I think
(33:46):
men get heard more than womensometimes.
Well, most of the time, I think, when it comes to race, I think
people aren't necessarilytrying to hear minorities, when,
most of the time, I think, youknow, when it comes to race, I
think people aren't necessarilytrying to hear minorities.
You know, when you think aboutthe political fabric of this
country, coming out ofWashington, if you don't have
the power and a lot ofminorities don't then they don't
get heard.
If you live in Chicago, atlantaand LA, where there's more of
(34:09):
you and you have the powerstructure, yes, you can be heard
.
So do you agree with what I'msaying or you think I'm off base
?
Speaker 2 (34:16):
I think again— you don't have to let me off the
hook.
No, no, I'm just trying to think.
I'm saying generally speaking,because again, who has per se
power?
And again we talk aboutprivilege, et cetera.
Generally speaking, yes, menare heard more often than women.
Those who are at a highersocioeconomic status are heard
more so than those who are of alower socioeconomic status.
(34:39):
And, yes, marginalized groupsare not heard, as those people
who are in traditionallymarginalized groups are not
necessarily heard as often asthose who are in
non-traditionally marginalizedgroups, as often as those who
are in non-traditionallymarginalized groups.
But what we have to alsounderstand is that there are
still resources and stillelements that even those who are
(35:00):
traditionally not necessarilyheard, they have to understand
what resources are available tothem in order to get their
voices heard.
So, if we're talking generally,we're talking about the
elements of privilege, andhere's what privilege is,
privilege is I don't have toworry about that, I don't have
to think about that becausethat's not necessarily my
(35:23):
concern, and so I can be bothprivileged and disadvantaged at
the same time.
Brenda Allen has a wonderfulbook called Difference Matters
and she discusses thisparticular element of privilege,
and again she goes into thefact that I can be both
privileged and disadvantaged atthe same time, and so that gives
(35:45):
you an example of what I wassaying previously in terms about
involuntary group membershipand voluntary group membership.
Well what type of power do Ihave based upon the roles that
I'm either playing or the groupmembership that I'm holding?
So, for example, I can be and,like I said, she gives a great
example.
(36:05):
So I'm just trying to think ofa couple of examples here In our
particular society.
Let's just go with, again,western American culture we have
those who are physicallychallenged, but the dominant
culture is that which those whoare not necessarily physically
challenged, those who aren't ina wheelchair, those who may not
be blind, those who are not deafBecause, again, if you and I
are going to go to, we go to astore or something like that we
(36:27):
go to a place and the elevatoris not working.
We might not be.
We might be frustrated with theelevator's not working, but
it's not a big deal.
Okay, I just got to go aheadand take the elevator.
Well, if I'm in a wheelchairnow, I'm in a conundrum right.
And so again, when you and I aregoing to the store or going
(36:47):
anyplace, you and I don't haveto be cognizant or have to be
aware of where is the wheelchairramp.
We're just trying to find thebest parking space that we can
find, but you and I don'tnecessarily have to worry about
which entrance is closest to thewheelchair ramp, because that's
not our lived experience.
We are part of the privilegedgroup in terms of buildings are
(37:07):
really made for us.
We don't have to be concernedabout that.
So we are privileged in thatsense.
But someone else might not beprivileged in that sense.
They're disadvantaged in thatsense.
But let's say that particulardisadvantaged person has a
gazillion dollars, et cetera.
Well, they are privileged inthat sense because now they are
economically more sound, etcetera, and I can get my
(37:29):
helicopter to put me on the topfloor or whatever if I want to.
So that's why I'm getting interms of we can both be
privileged and disadvantaged atthe same time.
In the classroom I can beprivileged because I'm the
instructor, I'm the one with thedegree, I'm the one teaching
the class, but yet I stepoutside of that classroom.
I'm seen as a minority woman.
(37:50):
Then, of course, I can bedisadvantaged, depending upon
the context, depending uponwhere I am, et cetera, because
I'm not going around here.
Well, wait a minute now.
I'm kind of privileged in thissense because I do have this
particular degree, I'm in thislevel.
So we have those elements ofprivilege and disadvantage at
the same time.
So it's not necessarily just,again, race, gender, it's a
variety of things as well.
(38:12):
You and I are at a certainsocioeconomic level.
We don't necessarily have toworry.
Where am I going to sleeptonight?
What bridge am I going to sleepunder?
How am I going to get food formy family?
Because we're not homeless.
There are things that we're notnecessarily thinking of.
I see your point, if it gets toocold outside, we just crank up
the heat.
If it gets too hot outside, wecrank up the air.
(38:33):
But again, there are certainthings that we don't have to
worry about because, again, thatparticular position in society
in which we, whether it's againdoing involuntary groups or
involuntary groups- I see whereyou're going, yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
However, I still hold my perspective on this country
as it relates to emergingleaders and whether you're
female and your gender and howmuch wealth you have, but we're
going to move on.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
We're going to move on.
But that's true, though,because, again, what our culture
, what our society believes,Exactly, exactly so that's
dealing with, though, because,again, what our culture, what
our society believes, exactly,exactly, so that's dealing with
worldview, so if we Well.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Well, the reason I say that, the reason I say that
is and I go back to emergingthere is a push in this country
to give more power.
You know, when I was coming upI'm old enough that when you
were growing up you were male orfemale.
Now it's different.
You're male, female, you'retransgender, it's a whole bunch
of other things that go into it,and no privilege whether they
were being heard, and so nowthey're being heard more.
(39:36):
Before that there was black orwhite or Hispanic.
Now there's mixed race.
There's a lot of other culturalthings that are coming up, and I
get where you're coming from,and so I just know that, as we
evolve and I focus on theemerging leaders, it's almost
too late for me because I'm oldenough now.
I got more days behind me thanI do in front of me, and that's
(40:00):
not a bad thing, but when Ithink about how people use their
skill sets and the culture toinfluence the future, I think
all of what you just talkedabout is absolutely true.
However, when I focus on whogets heard these emerging
leaders, culture style matters.
In 20 years, we'll have a newpresident.
(40:20):
In 20 years, we'll have newleaders in corporations and new
businesses coming up, and do theGen Zs have it different than
the baby boomers?
It's just, you know, you are ina world of communication.
That is incredibly interesting,which leads me to this question
AI is going to impact all of it.
(40:41):
Now you might have aperspective.
What's your thoughts on AI'simpact in the area of
communication, in the area ofpower that you just talked about
?
Speaker 2 (40:55):
AI is technology, okay, and so we have to look at
the role of technology incommunication, or how
communication can impacttechnology and vice versa can
impact technology and vice versa, and so one of the things that
I've found and again from my ownexperiences with my students,
(41:15):
et cetera is how something assimple as the internet and our
social media have alreadyinfluenced communication styles,
how that's already influencedhow we interact with one another
and how we build relationshipsand how we maintain
relationships.
So I see AI.
I'm not as astute on AI, butwhat I can say is that,
(41:36):
obviously, if social media hashad an impact on us, I can see
AI having a more impact on us interms of our relationships and
how we perceive otherindividuals as well, and let me
give you an example of what Imean in terms of just even
social media impactingrelationships and how I see AI
(41:56):
going further.
And this impacted me and thisthrew me for a loop.
I was in my classroom and I wasgiving an example.
I was trying to give an examplewith my students in terms of
how do we persuade individuals,right, and I was just thinking
okay, examples If you're goingto buy a car, you know the
salesperson is using certaintechniques, you know you're
(42:17):
going to look good in this car,you're going to get good gas
mileage, you know it'spersuasive.
So my whole point was that wehave these persuasive messages
every day.
They was that we have thesepersuasive messages every day.
They're not anything new to you.
And one of the examples I alsogave, or I was trying to give,
is I said, for instance, guysand girls, you know when you're
trying to, you know, get hook upwith somebody for the first
(42:38):
time.
You know, hey, how you doing.
You know, guys, what's your rep, what's the thing that you say
to the young ladies, you knowhow you looking good.
Now, you know I, you know,threw out some of those things
that folks used to rap back inthe 80s and the 90s Girl, you
look so good, da-da-da-da-da.
And as I was talking about this, I noticed my students were
aghast and I said what's wrong?
And I said so-and-so, how doyou get a girl to talk to you,
(43:00):
don't you say hey, girl, youlook good.
I said what's your rap?
Or something like that.
And the guys in my class justalmost had to freak out, you
know, just freaked.
I said no, we don't do that.
You don't go up to someone andjust talk to them.
I said how do you not talk Ifyou like somebody?
How do you not talk to getpersuade someone?
Hey, you know like, you knowyou need to get with me, you
know let's go out, et cetera.
(43:21):
No, you don't do that.
You.
You ask someone what someone'sInstagram is, you ask them about
another person's Instagram andyou slide into their DMs and I
said what?
And so, needless to say, andthen I said well, how do you
hook up?
And they're like oh, no, youdon't say hook up, They'll hook
up.
They're like no, hook up is abad term.
And I said what?
And hook up for them wasliterally hook up, but in our
(43:44):
day it was hey, you got thehookup.
Can you hook me up withso-and-so, so that shows you how
communication changes and howour communication does not stay
the same.
My whole point was wow, I kindof went way around the corner
here, but my whole point wasthey're using social media to
build relationships, to startrelationships, to engage, by
sliding into someone's DM orgetting into someone's Instagram
(44:07):
account, as opposed to justwalking up to someone and say,
hey, I like you, would you mindgoing out on a date with me?
So my whole point is that,obviously, if social media can
impact how we negotiaterelationships, how we begin
relationships, that AI is goingto do that some way.
But I don't know, and a part ofme is a little bit nervous
(44:30):
because, again, who canmanipulate AI?
Speaker 1 (44:34):
How.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
AI could be manipulated to say I'm this type
of person when really I'm notthis particular type of person,
how AI could probably havenegative messages about certain
groups of people, and it doesn'tnecessarily have to be true,
but it gets out there.
So then, depending upon howmuch I believe in this
technology, what I'm going tothink about other individuals
(44:56):
and therefore how I'm going toperceive those people and
therefore how I'm going tointeract with those people when
I see them, whether it be inperson or be it in a virtual
context- no doubt, no doubt AIis going to have an impact, and
to me I think it's yet to bedetermined.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
However, I'd still say humans will still be in a
position to influence what youjust said, the degree of their
power, which is code to me, forthe degree of their voice.
And so you know, I don't wantto run out of time and I thank
you for giving me your wisdom sofar.
I just have a couple morequestions if you have time.
You know, and I want to focusthese last two questions on um,
(45:37):
on.
You know my audience.
You know, for those and wellcause, I don't, I don't want to
say my audience for those folkswho may feel silenced, unsure,
overlooked.
What are some steps that folkscan take to reclaim their voice
and increase their power?
What do you say about that?
Speaker 2 (45:54):
What I tell my students, each and every person.
You have a voice.
You have a story to tell.
No one can take that from you.
Understand that you bringsomething to the table, because
each one of us have livedexperiences.
And so don't let anyone tellyou that your voice is not
(46:15):
important or that yourexperience is not important.
We all have differentperspectives.
We all have different lifestories.
Who says this one is betterthan the other one?
It's just like in terms of ourhistories.
It's just like in terms of ourhistories.
If they're those histories thatare hidden histories, it
(46:35):
doesn't mean it didn't occur.
It just means it was notrecorded or it was not listened
to.
If you and I are standing ontwo different corners and we see
a car wreck occur I saw it fromthe north side, you saw it from
the east side it doesn't meanthat I give my version and you
give your version.
It doesn't mean that yourversion is incorrect and mine is
(46:55):
correct, or that mine isincorrect and yours is correct.
It just means that we saw itfrom different perspectives.
We had different standpoints.
So again, both are equal.
Both are significant.
It's just whose story getsheard, whose gets recorded and
why is one listened to more sothan the other, and that's
really truly culturally based.
(47:17):
Whose story is heard more sothan the others?
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Okay, and so anything else you want to, any other
advice you want to give them onsmall steps they can take or
anything else.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Small steps.
I would say would be this, andthis is for individuals who feel
as though their voice isn'tbeing heard correct.
Yeah, that's what you're sayingUtilize those resources that
are available to you.
And here's what I mean Insocieties, there are when we
have conflict in societies.
That's when we have thesevarious social movements that
occur, because, remember, aconflict is a disagreement or
(47:52):
how we don't see eye to eyeregarding resources, history, et
cetera.
So there's a conflict there,right?
So that's when we have socialmovements come up.
That's when we had the women'ssuffrage movement, that's when
we had the Black Lives Matter.
We have the civil rightsmovement, et cetera.
The thing is, how do you utilizethe resources that you do have?
Because there are basicallythree things that people could
(48:14):
do within a society.
You can either one if you'renot the dominant society, the
dominant culture, et ceteraremember the dominant groups
that I talked about.
You can either just accept theway, accept the rules, accept
the system, accept the systemand just abide.
Simply abide by the rules inthe system, ok.
Number two, you can work withinthe system.
(48:34):
And then number three, you canjust completely obliterate, just
forget it.
I'm just going to do whatever Iwant to do Blah, blah, blah.
So that's basically what, andso that's what happened, for
example, within let's see whatAlabama bus boycotts right,
absolutely.
The people, the African-Americanpeople, black Americans did not
have the resources to, per se,stop the buses, et cetera, in
(48:58):
terms of not driving the buses,because I don't think they even
had the jobs for that but inorder to get their voice heard,
they utilized the power thatthey did have.
They couldn't change the lawsbecause they were not the
lawmakers right.
So what did they do?
They used those resources thatare available to them.
Well, I'm not going to ride thebus, I'm going to walk if I
(49:20):
have to, I'm going to ride withmy neighbor who might have a car
, et cetera.
And so, therefore, if there'sno one to ride the buses, what
happened?
In that sense that shut downthe economy that
shut down, the buses running, etcetera.
So they were utilizing thoseparticular sources that were
available to them, workingwithin kind of the system in
(49:43):
that sense, to, of course, gettheir voice heard individually.
What happened?
People were able to ride thebus.
They didn't have to ride in theback of the bus anymore.
They had more power in thatsense.
So that's what I'm saying interms of a communication sense
what are those particularresources that are available to
you?
And again, going back to what Istated, don't buy into the fact
(50:03):
that your voice is unimportant,don't buy into that story
because, again, it's basicallywhose voice is heard, Gotcha?
And again, don't buy into that,because what you have is
significant.
Who can take away your livedexperience?
Who can take away your life,things that you have learned?
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
So my last question is I want you to complete this
sentence the future of voicebelongs to those who the future
of voice belongs to those whoare willing to value
communication, and what I meanby that is you have to have a
willingness to communicate, thatis, if you are not allowing the
(50:44):
other person, if you are not atleast trying, if you're not
attempting to understand bothyourself and the other.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
Dr Broadus, I want to thank you for being a part of
the Next Big Thing.
You know this has been to me anengaging conversation because I
said it was going to bepowerful.
It reminds me thatcommunication isn't just about
what we say.
You just said about resources,about who we are.
It's about culture.
It's about a lot.
So I want to thank you forbeing on the show.
Thanks for listening to theNext Big Thing.
(51:13):
I'm your host, keith D Terry.
If you've enjoyed this episodeand you'd like to support this
podcast, please share it withothers, post about it on social
media or leave a rating and areview.
To catch all the latest from me, you can follow me on my
YouTube channel at Keith D Terry.
If you want to recommend aguest, please email me at info
(51:34):
at TerryPerformanceGroupcom.
This has been produced by yourhost and Jade Productions.
Welcome to the podcast the Next Big Thing.
I'm your host, keith D Terry, aconsultant, a coach and a
serial entrepreneur.
The mission here is to teach,inspire and to motivate.
Today's episode is powerful andtimely because we're diving
into the evolving world ofcommunication.
(00:20):
You heard me say itcommunication From stone
carvings to smartphones.
We've always found ways to shareour stories faster, further and
louder.
But here's the truth Access hasnever been equal.
Historically, the power tospeak and truly be heard has
been tied to privilege, likewho's got the mic, who gets
(00:41):
erased.
Now, in this world whereeveryone is talking, we have to
ask this very important questionwho's actually being listened
to?
Because power of communicationdoesn't lie in the platforms,
social TikTok and all that.
It is tied to the person, yourvoice, your truth, your story.
That's the power.
So how did we get here?
(01:02):
I, like I always do, I do ahistorical perspective and I
just want to do that right now.
From the 1980s to 2000, what Icall the mass media era,
gatekeepers control thenarrative.
Still, bold voices rose upthrough churches, community
centers and grassroots movements.
Then we shift to the 2000s to2020, what I call the social
(01:24):
media surge.
That forms gave everyone a mic,but equity didn't follow,
because algorithms rewardedoutrage, the crazy, still
consistent, authentic voiceschanged laws, changed lives and
was able to reach people andchange their mindsets.
Then we shift to what I call2020, the future, and this is
(01:44):
what I call the voice economyand the AI age.
Technology can mimic your voiceyes, it can, but in a sea of
noise, human authenticity is nowthe most valuable currency.
We've reached a moment wherecommunication is less about
clever words and more about thepresence behind them.
It's about identity, purposeand the tone that carries your
(02:08):
truth.
So what does this all mean forthe next generation of leaders
To help us unpack this?
I am truly honored to have ourguest here.
Her name is Dr Patrice Broadus.
Let me say a few words abouther.
Dr Patrice Brodess is theassistant professor of
communication at MissouriBaptist University, with over 15
years of experience teachingtopics like intercultural
(02:31):
communication, race and publicspeaking.
She's held faculty roles acrossthe South and the Midwest,
including St Louis University,and has trained both students
and professionals incommunication and leadership.
Dr Brodis earned her PhD fromSouthern Illinois University in
Carbondale, where she studiedAfrican-American identity and
(02:53):
culture, with a focus on checkthis out, call and response
communication in HBCU classrooms.
I want to dig into that one.
She's a published scholar,seasoned speaker and a
passionate advocate for usingyour voice as a tool for him to
pack Dr Broadus.
Welcome to the Next Big Thing.
How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Thank you so much, keith.
I appreciate that warm welcomeand that wonderful introduction.
Thank you, I'm very pleased tobe here.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Well, thank you.
Ok, well, let's get into it,but before we do that, tell the
audience where do you come from?
Who is?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
that.
Well, originally I'm a Southerngal.
So I'm originally fromMississippi, so I'm accustomed
to iced tea and lemonade andhats on a hot summer day.
As a matter of fact, my husbandand I just finished this
morning having a nice wonderfulwalk in the shady part of the
park, so I made sure that I camehome, got ready, made sure I
got my little Southern girlthing going on here, Because you
(03:50):
know you always have to be alady when you're in Southern.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
There you go, so you're from Mississippi All
right Born and raised inMississippi.
Yes, Well, let's get into this.
You spent over 15 yearsteaching communication across
the South and the Midwest.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
What inspired your passion in this field.
Here's the funny thing, keith Inever thought I would be in
higher education.
I never thought I would be aneducator, and that's because
both of my parents wereeducators.
My father was a band director,college band director and
ultimately a department chair.
My mother was in elementaryeducation, and so I grew up in
education, and so my wholethought was teachers are
(04:26):
overworked, they're underpaid.
I'm not going to do that.
I'm going to do something.
I'm going to make me some money, I'm going to get a business,
I'm going to have a big, hugeoffice on the 25th or 50th floor
, somewhere like in New York, etcetera.
And obviously that was not whatGod had planned.
So that's why I say you canmake all the wonderful plans
that you want to, but when Godhas a plan and a path for you,
he's got to let you say okay,that's good, I'm going to let
(04:47):
you go all your way.
Now you're going to do what Ineed you to do.
So I really just kind of gotinto education because after I
finished my undergraduate degreeand it was in journalism and
was still trying to figure outexactly what I wanted to do, out
exactly what I wanted to do, soI went into, so I went to
graduate school and things justkind of started opening up and
(05:07):
started clicking for me there interms of okay, well, let's see
where we can go with this.
This is really interesting andthat's kind of how I got on that
path from print journalism tospeech, communication and higher
education.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Okay, and so, as we dig into this, was there a
moment when you realized thatyour voice had real influence or
impact?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I tell you what.
Yes, and I'll tell you how.
I thought how that came across.
Again, in graduate school.
I was what's known as a TA, andso the TAs for the
communication department had tocome in and you had to have
training, right, and we werehaving training in terms of how
should we teach our publicspeaking courses, and so the
(05:48):
graduate student who was runningit for us, or running that
particular session for us, wasexplaining that certain students
, when they would be deliveringspeeches.
He gave an example in hisclassrooms.
He was stating that withinAfrican-American speech, he was
stating that sometimesyouAmerican speech, he was
stating that sometimes somepeople will talk back while the
(06:08):
person is delivering a speech.
Because remember again, intraditional Western value in
terms of how we've been taughtabout speeches, you let the
speaker give his or her speech,they complete and then we
applaud correct.
But, he was stating that don'tbe shocked, et cetera, when if
someone says you go, girl, orda-da-da when they're delivering
the speech.
He said that's just part of thepattern, and I thought
(06:31):
something about that clicked forme in terms of why is this
person trying to validate my wayof speaking or the type of
speech patterns that I've heardthroughout my life, and why does
that need validation?
Don't worry about that, that'san okay as though that's all
right.
That's kind of what they do.
Now, again, this is not talkingabout him negatively in any way
(06:54):
, because I knew him, we werefriends, et cetera, and he was a
really nice person.
But he just had to explain thatand it was odd to me that he
had to explain it, as well as tomy colleague also who was going
through the program with me,and we just thought, well,
that's odd in terms of why doesthat need to be explained?
Why does that need to be?
Speaker 1 (07:12):
validated.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Just that in terms of now you'll have some students,
and I think he said we get somestudents from inner cities, et
cetera.
But he was explaining that andthis is what happened, because
he explained that this was ayoung black lady that was giving
her speech, a young blackstudent.
And the young lady in theaudience said you go, girl,
while she was delivering herpresentation.
And he was saying don't look atthat as disruptive or count
(07:37):
that as something negativeagainst the student, it's fine.
That's just kind of what isdone, because, again, in our
traditional Western way ofspeaking, in which we've been
taught, the speaker deliver hisor her speech, you don't
interrupt the speaker, you letthem complete the presentation
and then you applaud and giveyour reaction at that time.
But, of course, in call andresponse, the audience responds
(07:59):
to the speaker, et cetera.
And he was explaining.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Boy, you're absolutely right about that.
I mean, you go to churches.
You're depending on thecultural component of where you
are.
Boy, you know, if people wellI'll just say it you go to
you're in a black audience,you're going to hear about it.
You know, it's like the Apollotheater, right, if you're bad,
they're going to snatch you off.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Exactly, exactly, but it's the communication, it's a
pattern, it's a way of relatingto the audience.
The speaker and the audienceare both working together in
this particular sense, andthat's what I'm saying.
What was odd to me in terms ofthat was normal.
That was behavior that didn'tneed to be explained to me, and
I'm thinking why does that needto be validated to someone else?
(08:40):
Why does my way of speaking, orthe way of speaking which I've
been accustomed to and I'velearned, why does that need to
be validated?
Why does that need to beexplained?
Why does that need to be giventhe okay?
I know it's okay.
Why does this group need toknow that?
it's okay, and that's kind ofwhat got me started into
learning more about culture andintercultural communication and
the role of speech patterns, andthen, ultimately, education,
(09:03):
which is how I came across mydissertation title.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Is it fair to say that all that means your voice?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Yes, I think it refers to your voice and also
the cultural understanding thatyour voice has you.
What does that necessarily meanto you and the significance to
your community as well?
Because if my voice is negatedor if someone says that that's
not important, then of coursethat's telling me that who I am,
what I have to say, myexperiences, my lived
(09:29):
experiences aren't significantor important as well, or they
aren't as important as the other.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Got it and so you know.
Here is I wonder what yourthoughts are, and what does it
really mean to have a voice?
And the reason that I ask thatis that some I mean right now,
everybody can have a voice.
And the reason that I ask thatis that some I mean right now
everybody can have a platform ifthey want.
There's TikTok, there'sFacebook, there's Instagram, and
you know, as a communicationspecialist, what does it mean to
have a voice?
(09:55):
Is it just me picking up themic and talking, or do I need to
have a powerful following bereally impactful?
Any thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
I think there are two different ways we can look at
this.
One is almost anyone can have avoice.
If you have the right equipment, anybody can get anything said.
As long as you can set that up,you can have a voice.
But I think what we're alsogetting at is the role that you
hold as a speaker when you getready to broadcast, when you
(10:27):
have a mic, et cetera.
What are your ethical goalsthat you have as a speaker?
Now, as an undergraduate, like Iwas telling you earlier, my
undergraduate degree was inprint journalism, so we were
taught as journalists.
This is what you do.
This is not about you.
You are to deliver the facts.
What are the facts?
The who, what, when.
(10:48):
That was again the basics who,what, when.
Don't diverge from that.
Don't give your opinion aboutit.
Who did this?
When did it occur?
What time did it occur?
Where did it occur?
And that's what you do, andit's a certain way in which we
were taught.
I'm trying not to get to theboring journalism part in terms
of how we start with the widelens and then we focus down to
(11:08):
it, but that was really trulyabout the ethics in terms of
what your job is as a journalist.
So my question to individualswho do decide that they want to
broadcast and they do want tohave a public voice what is it
that you intend with your voicevoice?
What is it that you intend withyour voice?
(11:29):
What is your particular goaland, at the core of it, what are
your ethical reasons, what isyour ethical responsibility as a
speaker, and do you take thatserious?
Speaker 1 (11:35):
That is very interesting that you bring
ethics up, because I think somepeople I'll ask if you think
there is a standard definitionof ethics, but that's really not
where I want to go.
Next, I wanted to talk a littlebit about all of that from a
cultural perspective.
In the United States, it'sstill no matter what the White
House is saying.
They're trying to make Americathis, that, or they take this
(11:56):
that there are still so manydifferent cultures.
And let's just you know, Iguess, from my perspective, in
what ways do cultural normsdefine who gets heard in the
classroom, in the boardroom andeven in churches?
You just mentioned the call andresponse.
Yes, I'm used to that, but I'malso used to going up and
(12:20):
starting from A to Z in myspeech, or whatever I'm going to
say, and taking what comesafterwards.
But I'm African-American, I'man American, I'm a Midwesterner,
born in Gary, raised in Chicago, and that's who I am.
And so, from a culturalstandpoint, I'm really curious,
because culture impacts so manythings.
(12:40):
What's your take on the impactof culture, invoice and who gets
heard?
Speaker 2 (12:47):
Man, there's so many things to unpack there.
So let me try.
I want to go with the examplethat you gave, that you said you
know that you're from theMidwest, you know, et cetera,
and you're accustomed to,obviously, the communication
that occurs within the Blackchurch, et cetera.
Let me give you an example ofhow our culture impacts our way
of thinking, et cetera.
If I say we're talking about, Iwant to get from you a
(13:10):
carbonated beverage that issweet and refreshing, now,
depending upon where you're from, is it Coke, is it soda, is it
pop?
And so you see where I'm goingwith this In terms of where we
were raised, what communitieswere we brought in?
That's what it is.
I'm thinking pop is one thing,but no, for you it's soda or for
(13:30):
you it's Coke, et cetera.
So, again, our culturalupbringing I won't even say our
cultural upbringing, I just ourculture is going to influence.
Culture is so significant inthat it influences how we
perceive ourselves, how weperceive others, how we perceive
our environment and, ultimately, our behaviors and our
reactions as well.
(13:50):
So that's kind of where thefoundation is, is that's why
culture is important, and if weunderstand culture, we have to
understand worldview.
So I don't want to get too faroff topic from where you want to
go, but what we have tounderstand.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
No, I'm following you .
I'm following you Teach theclass.
But what I have to understandno, I'm following you.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
I'm following you Teach the class.
But what I want to state isthat culture is significant.
Culture is what drives us eachand every day, and culture is so
deeply embedded with us thatoftentimes culture is that which
is hard to define.
We don't really understand thesignificance and the impact of
our culture, and, ultimately,our cultural identity, until
it's juxtaposed against another.
So that's why, in the examplethat I gave you before regarding
(14:30):
when I was in graduate school,I didn't realize that was an
aspect of my culture till thatgraduate student brought it up.
So, again, I wasn't reallyaware of that having cultural
significance or that beingculture, until it was juxtaposed
against another.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Okay, tell me, tell me, tell me if you agree or
disagree, if you have adifferent perspective, because I
want to get into.
I think culture impacts style,but I think style can be, I can
be, can be learned.
I don't think culture can,because I'm influenced by my
mother and my father and myfamily and my neighborhood and
those become cultural components.
And so as I think about, youknow, this whole notion of who
(15:10):
gets heard, I think aboutcommunication styles.
Is there a communication stylethat that is more powerful than
another or is unfairly labeledmore aggressive or conservative
than others?
And this is where I'm talkingabout style.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
So, in terms of communication, style you're
saying in terms of the way Ispeak.
Is that going to influence howI get heard, or if I get heard?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
If you consider that style, I'm just saying, you know
, take Barack Obama, barackObama has a style right.
Take the mayor of your city andthe mayor of my city, church
leaders, you know, even you, asa professor, you get up every
day and you have a style ofspeaking.
I have a style of a podcast,and so I just know that in
today's platform, some folkshave more power, they get heard
(16:03):
and style matters, does it not?
Speaker 2 (16:05):
I look at it in this sense of where I'm going with
that, in terms of who gets heardor whose style is listened to.
I think it comes from, again,culture, in terms of knowing
your audience and knowing what'sgoing to appeal to your
audience.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
And so, therefore, as the speaker, what I'm going to
do is I'm going to utilize thatcommunication.
I'm going to use thatcommunication means that I feel
is going to reach out most ofyou as my audience.
So, for example, if I'mspeaking to a group of fifth
graders or a group of elementaryschool students, I'm going to
talk to them a specific way inwhich I think is going to impact
(16:45):
them, in which I'm going tohave to connect with them
Because, again, as the speaker,what I need to do is connect
with my audience.
My audience has to see me as acredible speaker before they're
going to necessarily listen tomy message.
So I'm going to construct it inthat sense, just as if I'm going
to speak to a group of lawyersor doctors or attorneys and
(17:07):
lawyers are the same thing orprofessional individuals.
I'm going to construct mymessage in a way in which I feel
they're going to receive it, orat least I have to come across
to them as a credible speaker.
So, if we're talking aboutstyle in that sense, yes, as a
speaker, what I have to do istailor my message so that my
audience can best understand mymessage, and one of the ways in
(17:29):
which I do that is, again am Icoming across as credible?
Does my audience feel as thoughI've got their best interest at
heart?
Does my audience feel as thoughthey can connect with me?
Does my audience feel as thoughthey are safe with me, etc.
So those are the types ofthings that I am going to do if
I'm going to make certain, or ifI'm going to try to connect
(17:50):
with my audience and makecertain, that my audience gets
my message, whether I'm tryingto persuade them or whether I'm
simply just trying to inform myaudience.
And so there are different modes, different cultures.
Oh I'm sorry, Go ahead.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
No, no, finish your thought.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
There are different cultures.
We have different stylesbecause certain cultural
communities have differentstyles of communicating.
Some cultures are moreboisterous than others and I'm
not talking about just Americancultures, I'm just talking about
cultures from all over theworld, for example, sometimes
Eastern cultures or Westerncultures, et cetera In terms of
(18:25):
there's a more boisterous,flamboyant communication style.
Others are more reserved,others are not necessarily
direct, so you can have anindirect communication style.
Others are more reserved,others are not necessarily
direct, so you can have anindirect communication style.
You can have a directcommunication style.
In the United States, forexample, in Western American
culture, we have more of adirect communication style.
If I have a problem with you,I'm going to tell you look, this
(18:47):
is my problem.
I need you to do this.
I need you to speed up, I needyou to slow down.
What's the problem here?
You need to make it clear toaround it, because what's more
important is the actual contextthe situation as opposed to the
direct communication that's notculturally appropriate.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Well, let me throw another curve in here.
Does sex impact voice?
A woman versus a man?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Wow, yes, and I'm going to say yes simply because
of what we've been taught.
Remember again this is how weare taught.
Please do tell Dr Broadus whenwe are born, right, when we are
born and how we are labeled,right.
Okay, so, generally speakingand again, this is not a stamp
Boom, all women talk this way.
(19:50):
Or boom, all men speak this way.
Or boom, all women talk thisway.
Or boom, all men speak this way.
Or boom, all women communicatethat.
But what we have to understandis that, generally speaking,
there are certain styles,certain patterns, et cetera,
that women may exhibit, more sothan men.
Men might be more boisterous,and there's been research that's
been conducted on this in termsof women, let's say, making
(20:12):
more in terms of I believe or Ihope, or what I'd like to see,
et cetera, using those types ofI don't want to say disclaimers,
but using those types ofterminology where men might say
I want do this, da da da.
You see what I mean In terms ofhow women use certain
communications patterns and menuse certain communication
(20:32):
patterns.
And then if women use certainstyles, communicative styles or
patterns that men generallyadopt, then of course women
might be labeled a certain thing.
Now, whether or not they acceptthat label or not, that could
be a label that others place onthose individuals or those women
.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
So yes, know it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Women do.
Technically, research has foundthat women do use different
communication styles or patterns, etc.
But that's not to state thatall women do this, all women do
that or all men do.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
So so so the reason that I I asked that, well, not
the reason.
When I look at the followingfemale leaders, obviously I
think about Kamala Harris tryingto convince the American people
to vote for her.
I think of Nancy Pelosi.
I think of the mayor of LA Ican't think of her name right
(21:27):
now.
I think of Margaret Thatcher.
I think of other people youknow.
I thought these women wereincredibly gifted speakers.
You know what I think aboutwhen you said direct.
I do think Americans are verydirect.
However, when I think aboutstyle, I think I love what you
said about you have to picturewho you're trying to speak to in
(21:47):
order for that to be yourtarget audience.
And so, when I think aboutthose women, do you see them
having a common style or patternor technique?
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Here's what I'm going to say, a little bit
differently, because you putMargaret Thatcher in there.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
On purpose.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
On purpose, and here's what I want to say about
that.
Remember again, margaretThatcher had a position
obviously of leadership withinthe UK, correct?
Yes, yes, had a positionobviously of leadership within
the UK, correct?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
But the culture of the UK, remember again.
She had to be accepting of her.
You see what I mean.
I see what you're saying Interms of in that particular
culture, in that particularsociety, yes, women could have
that type of leadership.
I don't know if we'venecessarily gotten to that
particular point in the UnitedStates Now.
(22:33):
I don't know.
Again, I'm not from the UK,that's not my culture.
I don't know what it is to belived and embedded within that
culture in terms of beliefs, interms of leadership, in terms of
who can be a leader, in termsof what they want from their
leader, etc.
So, in terms of overall style,I would say, from what I could
(22:54):
see from clips etc.
That all of the women were veryvocal in terms of their
thoughts, in terms of beliefs,in terms of their education, in
terms of their experience, etc.
But in terms of how those womenare perceived and how those
women are received and how thosepeople are looked at as
credible is culturally based.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
I'll agree with that.
Let's move on here and let'stalk a little bit about emerging
leaders.
Are there certain skills thatemerging leaders should work on?
They need to develop in orderto be heard, trusted and
especially in this noisy worldwe are living in?
Speaker 2 (23:30):
In terms of just a flat out skill.
I think one of the skills thatwe need to build upon is
listening skills.
I think listening is asignificant aspect of
communication and I don't thinkwe're taught very well how to
listen, and this is where I'mcoming from with that.
(23:51):
For example, when you go tocollege, or even when you're in
high school, you have to take apublic speaking class.
So we're taught a lot how totalk, how to speak, but we
aren't taught a lot how tolisten.
Where did you see in yourcollege curriculum where they
said, okay, you have to takethis listening course.
We're not doing that?
Never exactly.
(24:12):
So I think that's a key aspectthat we have to wish.
Good leaders, in order tocommunicate well, also need to
be good listeners.
But again, where are we taughtthat?
And the reason why I'm goingthere, keith, is because when we
look at statistics, when welook at research regarding why
people, let's say, leave theirpositions, it's not necessarily
(24:34):
because they don't like whatthey do.
It's because they feel asthough they aren't being heard,
they aren't, their managers, etcetera, are not creating an
environment for them.
So people don't leave jobs perse and you've probably heard
this before because of theirposition and what they're doing.
It's more so because of thecommunication that's there.
(24:55):
So I think leaders really needto understand the role of
communication, and not justyou've got to do this.
Obviously, if you're a leader,if you're a manager, if you're
an executive, obviously you needto have your employees.
You need to have your teamswork toward a particular goal.
Well, how do you get them towork toward that particular goal
(25:18):
?
What are you communicating tothem about the value that they
bring to that team?
Communicating to them in termsof how you respect their thought
processes, you respect theirexpertise, et cetera, or are you
, you know, some people talkabout micromanaging someone over
(25:40):
me, et cetera.
You know, constantly, you know,checking each and everything I
do.
Well, if you're constantlychecking each and everything I
do, then you're saying obviouslyyou don't necessarily trust my
work, or you don't trust myparticular thought processes, et
cetera.
When it comes to this, nowagain, I'm not stating that
every manager oh, how's the kidsdoing?
And da, da, da, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
You don't need that yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
You can't get anybody on the hand.
But in that particularenvironment, in that particular
communication context, what isyour role as manager, what is
your role as leader?
How do you get the individualsto believe in your vision and
your vision for the company andyour vision for, at least, maybe
, perhaps, what your departmentis to achieve, et cetera?
Speaker 1 (26:23):
To recap, I'm hearing you say that emerging leaders
need to become better listeners,because at first I struggled
with that and I was going topush back a little bit.
That's all right.
I absolutely think you're right, but I also know that, having
led a lot of differentorganizations, I think a lot of
people aren't necessarily clearon what they're trying to say.
(26:46):
I think you're absolutely right.
Folks need to become betterlisteners.
Being an active listener is ahard thing to do, so I think
you're right.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
And listening again is not just to the verbal, but
it's listening to the nonverbalas well, because we, as people,
we put so much emphasis ashumans, we put a lot of emphasis
on the nonverbal as well.
So it's not just what is beingsaid, but it's how it's being
said.
Said, but it's how it's beingsaid.
(27:16):
So what is that?
You know, what is that personexplaining to you?
Because you've got to be ableto peel through and see okay, is
this really about?
Is this really and I'm going togo, let's say, use an example
for a corporate person so isthis really about you not
getting this particular officeor this particular desk, or is
it really the fact thatso-and-so came in and just
surpassed you in this particularposition, or you were
(27:39):
overlooked, or you felt asthough someone overlooked you or
didn't understand what you weretrying to do, et cetera.
So it's really about kind ofunpacking what's really being
said here.
And if you listen enough andagain, that's why we don't
understand the power of silenceas well you can kind of let
people unpack, people talk.
When people are given thatspace, they'll continue to
(28:01):
unpack.
That's why sometimes all youhave to do is just sit back and
listen and they'll keep tellingyou more.
They'll keep telling you more,and I think it's imperative upon
leaders to understand whattheir particular role is and how
significant communication is.
Let me give a more specificexample.
I didn't mean to ramble.
I was speaking with someone whowas corporate and she was in
(28:23):
customer service and she was amanager of customer service, and
this lady called in franticbecause her child didn't get
their shoes in time.
Now, this was Christmas Eve orsomething like that Child didn't
get the shoes.
Why are they supposed to behere?
So the parent was irate and soshe kept listening and listening
to what the lady was saying.
So it wasn't necessarily aboutthe shoes themselves, even
(28:44):
though that's their product.
The mother was upset becauseshe wouldn't have anything to
give to her child on ChristmasDay because the shoes didn't
arrive.
So, as the manager the personI'm talking about she said OK, I
can't get you the shoes, buthere's what I'm going to do I'm
going to immediately send you a$50 or $100 gift card, et cetera
(29:04):
, and that way you can purchasesomething immediately so your
child can have something.
So it's about being able toreally truly listen, see what
the problem is, what the issueis and resolve it in that sense.
So again, communication plays arole in that, because if you're
trying to really and trulyunderstand the situation,
understand the problem, thenyou've got to be able to listen
and again listen to the problem,listen to the person.
(29:27):
If you're there visually, whatare those nonverbal cues that
you are getting as well?
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Okay, well, this takes me to let's go a little
deeper.
How does race, gender andsocioeconomic background impact
someone's using their voice andthe power of it?
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Here we go.
So what we have to understandis that in each and every
communicative interaction, thereis power, is present.
Now, whether we're, it's notalways evident.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
However and you use the word power.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Yes, yes, okay, power , and what I mean by that is
whose voice gets heard, so tospeak.
That's what I mean by power, andwhat power can be both
voluntary and involuntary.
But also, what I'm getting atis this like I stated, within
each and every society, each andevery society, there are those
(30:17):
social structures that givecertain groups more power and
privilege than other groups.
Now, whether it's based uponrace, whether it's based upon
gender, whether it's based upona religion, religious beliefs,
et cetera, there's always apower structure there, there is
always an element of power.
(30:38):
Again, in communicativeinteractions, again, whether we
are aware of them or not, in aclassroom, for example,
generally the teacher is the onethat's going to have the power,
correct, Because the teacher isthe one who sets the schedule,
the teacher is the one who setsthe policies, the teacher is the
one who grades papers, theteacher is the one who sets
(30:59):
assignments, et cetera.
So that would be, in a sense,power, but that's power from the
social position that I hold.
You see what I mean.
I do In terms of in thatparticular setting.
Now, if we go out of thatclassroom setting and let's say
one of those students is apolice officer, and then that
(31:20):
faculty member gets pulled overby the student who's a police
officer, who has the power inthat sense, that student who is
not in the role of student nowbut in the role of police
officer, but what?
The role that they're holdingin that particular position?
And that's what I mean in termsof we have the roles that we
hold.
And then there are those otherthings, voluntary and
(31:41):
involuntary positions, voluntaryin terms of those things we
cannot necessarily readilychange.
And that goes back to mydefinition of power and sense,
depending upon, maybe, my.
We can't generally change yourrace, you can't generally change
your ethnicity, you can'tgenerally change your gender et
cetera, those are things thatyou cannot necessarily change.
Then there are those voluntarypositions that we have where we
(32:04):
can change.
We could change our maritalstatus, we can change our
educational status, we canchange where we live, et cetera.
So those are things that canchange.
So, again, depending upon whichvoluntary or involuntary group
we have, there's power and, likeI stated, power is not just
based upon I think a lot oftimes we think it's just race
and gender, but again it dependsupon also role.
(32:27):
And again, in that society,whichever society that we're in,
what group has the socialstructure.
I'll tell you my bias what doesthat particular group and
remember again that group thathas power to a general extent
determines the communicationpatterns of everyone else within
that society?
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Well, I'll tell you some of my bias.
Thank you for what you justsaid, because there's a lot of
truth in it, but I do think, andI'm going to say a couple
things, and you tell me whereI'm wrong, because you, but I do
think, and I'm going to say acouple of things, and you tell
me, you tell me where I'm wrong,because you use the word power,
and I'm going to stay there fora second and you said, and you
said, power is equivalent to whogets hurt, right?
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Yes, who, and in terms of who holds that
particular power in that socialstructure, in that particular
side what is?
Speaker 1 (33:09):
that social structure OK but you said, power is who
gets hurt, whatever the contextis I'm going to say men get
heard more than women.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Okay, keep going.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
I'm going to say that the majority, that well I'm
going to say rich people, getheard more than poor people.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (33:25):
And it's unfair because it's not always true,
because the best voices aresometimes the quiet voices, and
so I just think that that's kindof the bias in this country,
that men get heard more thanwomen.
And if people are listening tome, send me a note, react to
what I'm saying.
I don't believe it's true, butI think in this country I think
(33:46):
men get heard more than womensometimes.
Well, most of the time, I think, when it comes to race, I think
people aren't necessarilytrying to hear minorities, when,
most of the time, I think, youknow, when it comes to race, I
think people aren't necessarilytrying to hear minorities.
You know, when you think aboutthe political fabric of this
country, coming out ofWashington, if you don't have
the power and a lot ofminorities don't then they don't
get heard.
If you live in Chicago, atlantaand LA, where there's more of
(34:09):
you and you have the powerstructure, yes, you can be heard
.
So do you agree with what I'msaying or you think I'm off base
?
Speaker 2 (34:16):
I think again— you don't have to let me off the
hook.
No, no, I'm just trying to think.
I'm saying generally speaking,because again, who has per se
power?
And again we talk aboutprivilege, et cetera.
Generally speaking, yes, menare heard more often than women.
Those who are at a highersocioeconomic status are heard
more so than those who are of alower socioeconomic status.
(34:39):
And, yes, marginalized groupsare not heard, as those people
who are in traditionallymarginalized groups are not
necessarily heard as often asthose who are in
non-traditionally marginalizedgroups, as often as those who
are in non-traditionallymarginalized groups.
But what we have to alsounderstand is that there are
still resources and stillelements that even those who are
(35:00):
traditionally not necessarilyheard, they have to understand
what resources are available tothem in order to get their
voices heard.
So, if we're talking generally,we're talking about the
elements of privilege, andhere's what privilege is,
privilege is I don't have toworry about that, I don't have
to think about that becausethat's not necessarily my
(35:23):
concern, and so I can be bothprivileged and disadvantaged at
the same time.
Brenda Allen has a wonderfulbook called Difference Matters
and she discusses thisparticular element of privilege,
and again she goes into thefact that I can be both
privileged and disadvantaged atthe same time, and so that gives
(35:45):
you an example of what I wassaying previously in terms about
involuntary group membershipand voluntary group membership.
Well what type of power do Ihave based upon the roles that
I'm either playing or the groupmembership that I'm holding?
So, for example, I can be and,like I said, she gives a great
example.
(36:05):
So I'm just trying to think ofa couple of examples here In our
particular society.
Let's just go with, again,western American culture we have
those who are physicallychallenged, but the dominant
culture is that which those whoare not necessarily physically
challenged, those who aren't ina wheelchair, those who may not
be blind, those who are not deafBecause, again, if you and I
are going to go to, we go to astore or something like that we
(36:27):
go to a place and the elevatoris not working.
We might not be.
We might be frustrated with theelevator's not working, but
it's not a big deal.
Okay, I just got to go aheadand take the elevator.
Well, if I'm in a wheelchairnow, I'm in a conundrum right.
And so again, when you and I aregoing to the store or going
(36:47):
anyplace, you and I don't haveto be cognizant or have to be
aware of where is the wheelchairramp.
We're just trying to find thebest parking space that we can
find, but you and I don'tnecessarily have to worry about
which entrance is closest to thewheelchair ramp, because that's
not our lived experience.
We are part of the privilegedgroup in terms of buildings are
(37:07):
really made for us.
We don't have to be concernedabout that.
So we are privileged in thatsense.
But someone else might not beprivileged in that sense.
They're disadvantaged in thatsense.
But let's say that particulardisadvantaged person has a
gazillion dollars, et cetera.
Well, they are privileged inthat sense because now they are
economically more sound, etcetera, and I can get my
(37:29):
helicopter to put me on the topfloor or whatever if I want to.
So that's why I'm getting interms of we can both be
privileged and disadvantaged atthe same time.
In the classroom I can beprivileged because I'm the
instructor, I'm the one with thedegree, I'm the one teaching
the class, but yet I stepoutside of that classroom.
I'm seen as a minority woman.
(37:50):
Then, of course, I can bedisadvantaged, depending upon
the context, depending uponwhere I am, et cetera, because
I'm not going around here.
Well, wait a minute now.
I'm kind of privileged in thissense because I do have this
particular degree, I'm in thislevel.
So we have those elements ofprivilege and disadvantage at
the same time.
So it's not necessarily just,again, race, gender, it's a
variety of things as well.
(38:12):
You and I are at a certainsocioeconomic level.
We don't necessarily have toworry.
Where am I going to sleeptonight?
What bridge am I going to sleepunder?
How am I going to get food formy family?
Because we're not homeless.
There are things that we're notnecessarily thinking of.
I see your point, if it gets toocold outside, we just crank up
the heat.
If it gets too hot outside, wecrank up the air.
(38:33):
But again, there are certainthings that we don't have to
worry about because, again, thatparticular position in society
in which we, whether it's againdoing involuntary groups or
involuntary groups- I see whereyou're going, yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
However, I still hold my perspective on this country
as it relates to emergingleaders and whether you're
female and your gender and howmuch wealth you have, but we're
going to move on.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
We're going to move on.
But that's true, though,because, again, what our culture
, what our society believes,Exactly, exactly so that's
dealing with, though, because,again, what our culture, what
our society believes, exactly,exactly, so that's dealing with
worldview, so if we Well.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
Well, the reason I say that, the reason I say that
is and I go back to emergingthere is a push in this country
to give more power.
You know, when I was coming upI'm old enough that when you
were growing up you were male orfemale.
Now it's different.
You're male, female, you'retransgender, it's a whole bunch
of other things that go into it,and no privilege whether they
were being heard, and so nowthey're being heard more.
(39:36):
Before that there was black orwhite or Hispanic.
Now there's mixed race.
There's a lot of other culturalthings that are coming up, and I
get where you're coming from,and so I just know that, as we
evolve and I focus on theemerging leaders, it's almost
too late for me because I'm oldenough now.
I got more days behind me thanI do in front of me, and that's
(40:00):
not a bad thing, but when Ithink about how people use their
skill sets and the culture toinfluence the future, I think
all of what you just talkedabout is absolutely true.
However, when I focus on whogets heard these emerging
leaders, culture style matters.
In 20 years, we'll have a newpresident.
(40:20):
In 20 years, we'll have newleaders in corporations and new
businesses coming up, and do theGen Zs have it different than
the baby boomers?
It's just, you know, you are ina world of communication.
That is incredibly interesting,which leads me to this question
AI is going to impact all of it.
(40:41):
Now you might have aperspective.
What's your thoughts on AI'simpact in the area of
communication, in the area ofpower that you just talked about
?
Speaker 2 (40:55):
AI is technology, okay, and so we have to look at
the role of technology incommunication, or how
communication can impacttechnology and vice versa can
impact technology and vice versa, and so one of the things that
I've found and again from my ownexperiences with my students,
(41:15):
et cetera is how something assimple as the internet and our
social media have alreadyinfluenced communication styles,
how that's already influencedhow we interact with one another
and how we build relationshipsand how we maintain
relationships.
So I see AI.
I'm not as astute on AI, butwhat I can say is that,
(41:36):
obviously, if social media hashad an impact on us, I can see
AI having a more impact on us interms of our relationships and
how we perceive otherindividuals as well, and let me
give you an example of what Imean in terms of just even
social media impactingrelationships and how I see AI
(41:56):
going further.
And this impacted me and thisthrew me for a loop.
I was in my classroom and I wasgiving an example.
I was trying to give an examplewith my students in terms of
how do we persuade individuals,right, and I was just thinking
okay, examples If you're goingto buy a car, you know the
salesperson is using certaintechniques, you know you're
(42:17):
going to look good in this car,you're going to get good gas
mileage, you know it'spersuasive.
So my whole point was that wehave these persuasive messages
every day.
They was that we have thesepersuasive messages every day.
They're not anything new to you.
And one of the examples I alsogave, or I was trying to give,
is I said, for instance, guysand girls, you know when you're
trying to, you know, get hook upwith somebody for the first
(42:38):
time.
You know, hey, how you doing.
You know, guys, what's your rep, what's the thing that you say
to the young ladies, you knowhow you looking good.
Now, you know I, you know,threw out some of those things
that folks used to rap back inthe 80s and the 90s Girl, you
look so good, da-da-da-da-da.
And as I was talking about this, I noticed my students were
aghast and I said what's wrong?
And I said so-and-so, how doyou get a girl to talk to you,
(43:00):
don't you say hey, girl, youlook good.
I said what's your rap?
Or something like that.
And the guys in my class justalmost had to freak out, you
know, just freaked.
I said no, we don't do that.
You don't go up to someone andjust talk to them.
I said how do you not talk Ifyou like somebody?
How do you not talk to getpersuade someone?
Hey, you know like, you knowyou need to get with me, you
know let's go out, et cetera.
(43:21):
No, you don't do that.
You.
You ask someone what someone'sInstagram is, you ask them about
another person's Instagram andyou slide into their DMs and I
said what?
And so, needless to say, andthen I said well, how do you
hook up?
And they're like oh, no, youdon't say hook up, They'll hook
up.
They're like no, hook up is abad term.
And I said what?
And hook up for them wasliterally hook up, but in our
(43:44):
day it was hey, you got thehookup.
Can you hook me up withso-and-so, so that shows you how
communication changes and howour communication does not stay
the same.
My whole point was wow, I kindof went way around the corner
here, but my whole point wasthey're using social media to
build relationships, to startrelationships, to engage, by
sliding into someone's DM orgetting into someone's Instagram
(44:07):
account, as opposed to justwalking up to someone and say,
hey, I like you, would you mindgoing out on a date with me?
So my whole point is that,obviously, if social media can
impact how we negotiaterelationships, how we begin
relationships, that AI is goingto do that some way.
But I don't know, and a part ofme is a little bit nervous
(44:30):
because, again, who canmanipulate AI?
Speaker 1 (44:34):
How.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
AI could be manipulated to say I'm this type
of person when really I'm notthis particular type of person,
how AI could probably havenegative messages about certain
groups of people, and it doesn'tnecessarily have to be true,
but it gets out there.
So then, depending upon howmuch I believe in this
technology, what I'm going tothink about other individuals
(44:56):
and therefore how I'm going toperceive those people and
therefore how I'm going tointeract with those people when
I see them, whether it be inperson or be it in a virtual
context- no doubt, no doubt AIis going to have an impact, and
to me I think it's yet to bedetermined.
Speaker 1 (45:12):
However, I'd still say humans will still be in a
position to influence what youjust said, the degree of their
power, which is code to me, forthe degree of their voice.
And so you know, I don't wantto run out of time and I thank
you for giving me your wisdom sofar.
I just have a couple morequestions if you have time.
You know, and I want to focusthese last two questions on um,
(45:37):
on.
You know my audience.
You know, for those and wellcause, I don't, I don't want to
say my audience for those folkswho may feel silenced, unsure,
overlooked.
What are some steps that folkscan take to reclaim their voice
and increase their power?
What do you say about that?
Speaker 2 (45:54):
What I tell my students, each and every person.
You have a voice.
You have a story to tell.
No one can take that from you.
Understand that you bringsomething to the table, because
each one of us have livedexperiences.
And so don't let anyone tellyou that your voice is not
(46:15):
important or that yourexperience is not important.
We all have differentperspectives.
We all have different lifestories.
Who says this one is betterthan the other one?
It's just like in terms of ourhistories.
It's just like in terms of ourhistories.
If they're those histories thatare hidden histories, it
(46:35):
doesn't mean it didn't occur.
It just means it was notrecorded or it was not listened
to.
If you and I are standing ontwo different corners and we see
a car wreck occur I saw it fromthe north side, you saw it from
the east side it doesn't meanthat I give my version and you
give your version.
It doesn't mean that yourversion is incorrect and mine is
(46:55):
correct, or that mine isincorrect and yours is correct.
It just means that we saw itfrom different perspectives.
We had different standpoints.
So again, both are equal.
Both are significant.
It's just whose story getsheard, whose gets recorded and
why is one listened to more sothan the other, and that's
really truly culturally based.
(47:17):
Whose story is heard more sothan the others?
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Okay, and so anything else you want to, any other
advice you want to give them onsmall steps they can take or
anything else.
Speaker 2 (47:31):
Small steps.
I would say would be this, andthis is for individuals who feel
as though their voice isn'tbeing heard correct.
Yeah, that's what you're sayingUtilize those resources that
are available to you.
And here's what I mean Insocieties, there are when we
have conflict in societies.
That's when we have thesevarious social movements that
occur, because, remember, aconflict is a disagreement or
(47:52):
how we don't see eye to eyeregarding resources, history, et
cetera.
So there's a conflict there,right?
So that's when we have socialmovements come up.
That's when we had the women'ssuffrage movement, that's when
we had the Black Lives Matter.
We have the civil rightsmovement, et cetera.
The thing is, how do you utilizethe resources that you do have?
Because there are basicallythree things that people could
(48:14):
do within a society.
You can either one if you'renot the dominant society, the
dominant culture, et ceteraremember the dominant groups
that I talked about.
You can either just accept theway, accept the rules, accept
the system, accept the systemand just abide.
Simply abide by the rules inthe system, ok.
Number two, you can work withinthe system.
(48:34):
And then number three, you canjust completely obliterate, just
forget it.
I'm just going to do whatever Iwant to do Blah, blah, blah.
So that's basically what, andso that's what happened, for
example, within let's see whatAlabama bus boycotts right,
absolutely.
The people, the African-Americanpeople, black Americans did not
have the resources to, per se,stop the buses, et cetera, in
(48:58):
terms of not driving the buses,because I don't think they even
had the jobs for that but inorder to get their voice heard,
they utilized the power thatthey did have.
They couldn't change the lawsbecause they were not the
lawmakers right.
So what did they do?
They used those resources thatare available to them.
Well, I'm not going to ride thebus, I'm going to walk if I
(49:20):
have to, I'm going to ride withmy neighbor who might have a car
, et cetera.
And so, therefore, if there'sno one to ride the buses, what
happened?
In that sense that shut downthe economy that
shut down, the buses running, etcetera.
So they were utilizing thoseparticular sources that were
available to them, workingwithin kind of the system in
(49:43):
that sense, to, of course, gettheir voice heard individually.
What happened?
People were able to ride thebus.
They didn't have to ride in theback of the bus anymore.
They had more power in thatsense.
So that's what I'm saying interms of a communication sense
what are those particularresources that are available to
you?
And again, going back to what Istated, don't buy into the fact
(50:03):
that your voice is unimportant,don't buy into that story
because, again, it's basicallywhose voice is heard, Gotcha?
And again, don't buy into that,because what you have is
significant.
Who can take away your livedexperience?
Who can take away your life,things that you have learned?
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (50:22):
So my last question is I want you to complete this
sentence the future of voicebelongs to those who the future
of voice belongs to those whoare willing to value
communication, and what I meanby that is you have to have a
willingness to communicate, thatis, if you are not allowing the
(50:44):
other person, if you are not atleast trying, if you're not
attempting to understand bothyourself and the other.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
Dr Broadus, I want to thank you for being a part of
the Next Big Thing.
You know this has been to me anengaging conversation because I
said it was going to bepowerful.
It reminds me thatcommunication isn't just about
what we say.
You just said about resources,about who we are.
It's about culture.
It's about a lot.
So I want to thank you forbeing on the show.
Thanks for listening to theNext Big Thing.
(51:13):
I'm your host, keith D Terry.
If you've enjoyed this episodeand you'd like to support this
podcast, please share it withothers, post about it on social
media or leave a rating and areview.
To catch all the latest from me, you can follow me on my
YouTube channel at Keith D Terry.
If you want to recommend aguest, please email me at info
(51:34):
at TerryPerformanceGroupcom.
This has been produced by yourhost and Jade Productions.
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