What's it like to be a Ghost Hunter? | A conversation with Adam Berry

Paranormal Investigator Adam Berry sits down with Nicholas Ashbaugh and talks about ghost hunting, shares some highlights from his new book "Goodbye, Hello," and recounts one of his earliest encounters with spirits—a ghost dog. Adam also delves into deeper topics, like the intersection of religion and paranormal investigation, the humanization of ghosts, and what happens when our spirit leaves our body. Watch the video from this interview on YouTube.

For more information, see: NicholasAshbaugh.com 

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hey everybody.
I'm Nicholas Ashbaugh, many of you recognizeme from YouTube.
I'm also a psychic medium.
I spent the first part of my life actuallyhiding that part of me, just trying to be
normal.
But the minute that I embraced the thingsthat made me unique, that's when my life started
to get interesting.
This is why I'm so excited to be launchingthis podcast series where we can delve into
all things paranormal, metaphysical, and unknown.

(00:21):
My first guest, Adam Berry, fits all of thosecategories perfectly.
He's the executive producer and co-star ofKindred Spirits.
You may also recognize him from his time onGhost Hunters, and he just released a brand
new book, which we're going to talk abouttoday, and it's called Goodbye, Hello.
Welcome, Adam.

(00:42):
Great to have you here.
How are you doing today?
Thank you.
Very good.
How are you?
I'm doing great.
Thank you so much.
Awesome.
So people on my channel may be wondering whatdrew me to inviting you as a guest here, and
I think there's a lot of mutual overlap with,
even though we do very different work, I appreciate
that you infuse your work with integrity andenthusiasm.

(01:03):
You have this common goal that I do, whichis normalizing the spiritual experience, trying
to make it more comfortable for people totalk about this in everyday life.
And in your series as well as the book here,one of the things that I really liked is you
help people overcome the fear of the unknown.
There's a lot of healing that happens also
in the TV series where it's not just sensationalized.

(01:24):
There's a lot of paranormal stuff out therewhere it's like it's just for the spectacle
of it.
But I think that what I really like aboutyour work is that you're trying to understand
the emotions of the people that are goingthrough things, also the spiritual side, what
they're going through, and you're trying tohelp people meet in the middle.
Is that a fair summary of everything?

(01:46):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think when people think of the paranormal,or especially when they think of paranormal
reality television, their first thought is,oh, this is going to be a fast, scary ride
and it's going to be an adrenaline rush, andthey're thinking of it as entertainment, which
it is.
I think it is better to approach paranormalinvestigation with a thought about who you're

(02:08):
actually speaking to, who's on the other sideof that conversation, the humanization of
ghosts, basically.
And I think once you put it into that perspective,your view of paranormal investigation is very
different.
The activity might be aggressive, but theperson causing the activity needs something
or wants something.

(02:28):
And I think it's best to try to figure outwhat that is instead of just experiencing
the activity and saying, "Oh, that's cool."
It's trying to help them better understandtheir own position in the afterlife.
Yeah, I think there was something in yourbook about instead of trying to go after the
evidence, you're really trying to understandwhat's going on.
And also ask the right questions because therehave been times on the series where sometimes

(02:53):
ghosts speak in a different language, youhave to get an interpreter.
Sometimes because of maybe an approach, theyget scared, and we don't always think about
that too.
So it is about understanding what's goingon in order to solve a mystery, because your
work is very nuanced.
It's not just going in using tech gear andtrying to get things.

(03:13):
It's basically why is it happening?
Who are you talking to?
Why are people afraid?
So there is this sort of, it is investigationfor sure, but there's also I would say a little
bit of therapist that's going on.
You're not a therapist, but you're tryingto figure out the psychology, right?
It's exactly what I was going to say to you.
It's almost like being a ghost therapist.

(03:34):
You're inviting the spirit to lay down ona spiritual couch and you're trying to unpack
the baggage that they have carried into thenext journey of their existence.
And honestly, it's more fun to me.
As human beings, we tend to hang out withour friends and we have a good time, but then

(03:54):
there are times your friends need you forcertain things or they're going through something
and as humans and that human nature kicksin and you want to help them and you want
to say, "How can I help you?
What can I do?
What can we do together?
What's happening?
I'll be there for you."
And I think the people in the afterlife needthe same thing, and it is just harder for

(04:15):
them to get it.
And I think it's more enjoyable and fulfillingto make a difference on both sides of the
equation, the living and the dead, than itis to just do a one-sided conversation and
experience.
There were a few light bulb moments that youtalked about in the book.
One of them was really poignant, I think youwere talking about a woman that was dealing
with a terminal illness and she came up toyou and it wasn't like the question that you

(04:40):
thought she would ask you.
She was asking instead of like, can I connectwith people on the other side?
She wanted to know how when she was a spirit,she could connect with her family.
Can you describe how that light bulb momenthelped shape a different view of ghosts and
paranormal?
Because you covered in the book a little bit,but I'd love to hear it in your own words

(05:01):
here.
Yeah.
For sure.
So this was a very long time ago.
I think this was 14 years ago, but at thetime, I had just started Ghost Hunters.
And we would go to these events, which westill do, where there's panel discussions
about what you do, and people ask questionslike, what's your scariest experience?

(05:21):
What got you into this?
And those are fine and wonderful questions.
And that's what was happening.
And this is one of the first times I'd everdone something like this.
And after it was all over, this lady cameup to me and I expected her to ask me another
generic question, how do you feel about workingon Ghost Hunters now?
Or what's the scariest thing that happenedto you at Waverly Hills?

(05:45):
And she looked at me and she didn't even hesitate,which was shocking at first because I've never
been asked that.
And at this point I'm like 20, I don't know,five, 26 years old.
So not a lot of experience.
Yes.

(06:05):
And so she says to me, she says, "I have aterminal illness.
I've been given X amount of time to be onthis earth.
How can I keep in touch with my family afterI'm gone?"
It was simple.
It was such a simple question.
And I obviously had no answer.

(06:26):
And in a way, I still don't.
I don't know how it actually occurs on theother side.
It's different for every person too, becauseeveryone has...
You were talking about the lens through whichwe view the spiritual realm.
I think it does affect how we experience thatrealm afterwards.
So yeah, it actually probably is a littledifferent for each person.
But I think you were honest.

(06:48):
That was so cool.
You said, I don't know, isn't it somethinglike that?
I don't know.
Well, and what was interesting is I said,I was like, "I don't know."
I said, "I'm sorry.
I apologize that I don't know.
I wish I did."
I think that was a great answer though, becausewe're all figuring stuff out.
And the thing is honesty for us, and wellfor me specifically has always been the way
it should be in this world.

(07:10):
I'm not trying to sugar coat anything.
I'm telling you my experiences, this is whathappened, it's all theory, let's go with it.
But I said I don't know.
And the fascinating thing about it for mewas her face didn't change.
She didn't get disappointed, she didn't getupset.
She might've anticipated that answer, butI remember saying to her, "Well, if you find

(07:31):
out, will you come back and let me know?"
I thought that was so cool.
Keep us posted on that.
Please.
Yeah, keep me updated.
If there is a purpose, if you can tell me.
And I haven't heard from her.
And so for me, it's not necessarily a sadthing.
I'm listening to-
She could also be at peace.

(07:52):
... a certain amount of energy.
You mentioned, no news can be good news, whichis, yeah.
No news is good news.
She could be at peace.
If she only has a certain amount of energyon the other side, why waste it on someone
you don't know?
You know what I'm saying?
Even if it's for science, but why waste itfor somebody else?
So actually that moment stuck with me fora long time.
I remember going back to the hotel room, gettingemotional and being like, wow, that was really

(08:14):
heavy.
It is.
It really gave me the view of what we're actuallydoing here.
There are going to be a lot of people who
are really into it for the thrill of the paranormal.
And then there are going to be people thatlook at the paranormal as a way of trying
to understand what is about to happen to themselves
or to a family member.
And of that moment, deep down sparked theinformation for this entire book.

(08:40):
Building off that story, I think this alsochanged the view of the word ghost.
Because I think sometimes when we are lookingat the paranormal, it's like this abstracted
thing.
A ghost is an entity, it's an energy.
We don't understand it, but very much withwhat you're doing, most of the ghosts you
experience, they're humans.
And this I thought was also a light bulb moment,which is once you understand that there's

(09:04):
a human on the other side of this activity,then it is about trying to understand and
communicate with it from a human perspectivetoo.
I guess my question here is, how has yourapproach towards spirits changed throughout
your investigative career?
Well, again, when you start out, you justwant experiences and you're not really thinking
about who's on the other side of that conversation.

(09:26):
You want that knock, you want to hear it.
And don't get me wrong, that stuff's amazing.
It still is.
If you see us reacting really crazy on KindredSpirits, there's a reason for it.
There's a lot of things that don't shock usanymore.
And that's still exciting, but it's a one-sided,I don't want to say selfish, but it feels

(09:47):
that way for me now.
It's like it's a one-sided thing.
And don't get me wrong, it is okay to do that.
If you don't think you are in a good spaceto be a ghost therapist, don't try to do it.
Just go and have your experience and let itbe what it is, and know that on the other
end of that conversation is a human person.

(10:09):
But you don't have to set out and be a superhero.
That's not the point.
But for me, it changed because I think ofit that way.
Yes, I have experienced entities that I havefelt haven't been in human form, that are
maybe connected to the earth or that are somethingthat has been here forever and ever and ever

(10:30):
and it doesn't have a human form, but 99%of the time, it's going to be a mother, a
father, an uncle, an aunt on the other endof that conversation.
Particularly with the type of work that you'redoing too, because people are coming to you
with, oftentimes it's like after a death orthey're in a haunted house.
So yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

(10:50):
Right.And so it's best to approach it that way.
And again, you approach it as if you are enteringa, we say you're entering a party and you
don't know anyone at that party.
And you say, my name is Adam.
What is your name?
Very simple.
How are you today?
The people who live here, it's hard to seeyou, it's hard to hear you but I can communicate

(11:12):
with you.
And it's building a trust just like you wouldbuild with someone else.
And I talk about it in the book, but I thinkthere are a few things that are on the other
side in spiritual form that they need andwant that we want.
So communication, compassion, understanding,love, respect.
And all of those things can still be givenfrom a place of sincerity.

(11:34):
And you don't need to know that person, you're
just literally human to human having a conversation
except it's just there in a different-
A different form.... spiritual place.
I think that was a big aha as I was readingthe book too, is just that if we just look
at ghosts as having the same wants and needsas us sometimes even being and not even aware
that they're a ghost, because there were severalexamples of that in the book and also in your

(11:57):
TV series, that it gives you a sense of empathyand curiosity.
And I'm assuming one of your other tools isjust to go in without assumptions because
those lenses get in the way of really knowingwhat's going on.
So many times...
Go ahead.
That's the biggest thing.
No, that's the biggest thing.
We always try to blank slate everything, evenif we know what they're experiencing.

(12:21):
Honestly, it's, "Hi, my name is Adam.
What is your name?"
And then wait.
And then based on that no response or response,you continue to just engage from a purely
level perspective without anything aroundit.
Because we've encountered spirits who seemaggressive and scared.

(12:45):
And the families like, oh, this is crazy,it's a demon.
It's so nuts.
And it turns out to be this sweet old ladywho doesn't understand why she's still on
this earthly plane and it breaks your heart.
That one was sudden.
Yeah.
And we wouldn't have found that out if wedidn't approach it from such a level perspective,

(13:06):
if we went in guns blazing, figuratively speaking,you already have an assumption of what is
it, what you are doing, and what is it you'retalking to?
Who are you talking to?
And it ruins.
It can just ruin your entire perspective.
One thing that was really cool in the book,I've heard you talk about Gettysburg before,
but I didn't know about the ghost dog thinguntil the book, that might've been the first

(13:29):
time.
So for those that are tuning in, you livedin a haunted house as a kid, is that correct?
Yeah, correct.
So I grew up in Mussel Shoals, Alabama, shoutout Mussels Shoals, Alabama.
So I grew up a house that my parents rented,and they were told that it was haunted before
they moved in-

(13:50):
Crazy.... by a woman, a lady named Gertrude.
And they moved in.
They moved in because they needed more space.
They were having a family, they wanted torent a place or they bought a place.
And so I spent until I was in fourth grade,birth to fourth grade living in that house.
And there was all kinds of activity.
But the ghost dog thing was the one thingthat happened where I knew without a doubt

(14:16):
that there was something else in this worldbesides just human people.
I woke up in the middle of the night and Icould hear what sounded like a dog scratching
on the bathroom door that was right outsidea room that I'd share with my brother.
And you could hear the dog walking into theroom, you could hear its nails on the hardwood

(14:37):
floor, you could hear the jingle of the dog,the tag collar.
And then when it got to the TV at the footof the bed, it was one of those old tube TVs
where if you push the button to turn it off,it would glow a little bit.
And so every time the sound got to the television,the TV would glow a little bit and then it
would repeat.

(14:57):
And so it kept doing it, and I remember processingit as this kid.
I was like, I want to get up and run out tomy parents, but I can't because the sound
is in the doorway and I don't want to go thatway.
I was like, is it my aunt or aunt?
My Aunt Patsy, she had a dog.
Maybe she showed up in the middle of the night.
For some reason she's sleeping over, but Idon't see a dog.

(15:19):
That's weird.
We didn't own any animals or pets when welived in that house.
And it just became this weirdly bizarre momentof this is supernatural.
This is not right.
And I remember taking all the courage thatI had in my little child body, and I grabbed

(15:40):
the sheets on the side of the bed and I justyelled stop.
And it completely quit.
And there was this weird sense of like, oh,I did that.
I controlled the scenario.
Boundaries.Didn't let it get the best of me.
Setting boundaries just like you would dowith any other spirit or ghost.
And there was this sense of calm that cameover me and I laid down and went back to sleep.

(16:02):
And I had told my mother about it maybe thenext day or a couple days after, but she never
really talked to me about it until I wrotethis book.
And I was interviewing about it and she waslike, well, I guess the house was haunted.
When you came over and told me about thatghost dog, I guess it was haunted.
And I'm like, well, at least they believedme to a point.

(16:22):
They didn't shove me off to the corner andsay, be quiet about it.
They just let me do my own thing, which Ithink helped me not be afraid of it.
And to what I understand-
My parents were the same way.
Years later when I started doing what I'mdoing now, my dad talked about a ghost experience
he had, and my mom said, oh, I could go outof body and look at the room.
I'm like, why didn't you tell me this whenI was a kid?

(16:42):
So that when I was experiencing stuff, itwould've felt more normal.
But I think that generation or the generationbefore, it was very much...
And I came from a religious background too,Roman Catholic.
You were Baptist.
Baptist.
Yeah.Yeah.
Both of them are not very open-minded whenit comes to the paranormal.
No.
I want to say though, I was still impressedwith you conjured up that courage and created

(17:06):
the boundaries.
And as adult Adam, imagine you could investigatethis now, how would you interact with that
dog now that you have a different toolsetand a different approach?
Well, first off, please God, let there bea recorder running, a video camera running.
To get the EVPs.
Something please catch it on camera or onaudio at least.

(17:30):
I think what's weird is as a kid, becauseof our imagination and what we grow out of
as you get older, I wouldn't see it in thesame way.
I was experiencing, it was happening, it couldhave been anything.
And I said, stop and it quit right.
Now as an adult with a rational mind, somebodywho loves to daydream but doesn't sit and

(17:58):
play pretend and doesn't have that childlikeattitude or ideas, I would immediately be
like, holy crap, what is that happening?
That is insane.
It's happening over and over.
This is insane.
I would try to process how naturally it wasoccurring.

(18:18):
Like, okay, well what can make these sounds?
Is it actual animal?
Am I not seeing something?
Is it something on the roof?
Is it echoing down?
I would try to process it that way, and thenif I couldn't figure it out naturally, then
I would be like, wow, that was an incredibleexperience.
And then my paranormal investigator braingoes into, okay, well, who's attached to the

(18:41):
dog?
Who had a dog?
Did you have a dog?
Figuring out, did former homeowners have thedog?
Are they here with the dog?
Is the dog all alone?
It's weird things like that.
It turns into more of a scientific theorysituation rather than just having the experience
and being like, wow, that was a crazy experience.
I do like that you guys rule it out.

(19:01):
That was something that on Ghost Hunters,they would do too.
It's always make sure that we're not assumingsomething that it is not.
So you look at the pipes and you look at otherthings because there are many things that
could cause those sounds, but that's cool.
There's also a journalistic piece, so I thinkwe have ghost therapist.
We have the investigative piece where youand Amy go to the libraries and look stuff

(19:22):
up.
And then there's also this trying to ask theright questions things.
So it's much more complicated and nuancedthan I think people maybe realize because
only a portion of this also makes it to theediting room floor.
And I think one of the most important thingsthat we do that is the hardest is interviewing

(19:42):
people that have had experiences or interviewingthe people that have called you in to talk
to you because they give you a blanket likethis is what's happening.
And then you have to dig into the surfaceand you have to ask them more questions, and
then they're going to skirt around thingsthat they don't really want to talk about,
where they think you're going to think I'man idiot or a fool.
And then you go through that process and thenyou interview them yet again, asking the same

(20:06):
questions in different ways so that you canactually get the real answer.
And sometimes Chip Coffee likes to use thisphrase, they all lie, but that's not necessarily
what it means.
It doesn't mean that they're lying on purpose.
It just means that they are either misrememberingor forgetting something that they want to
say, and they don't tell you right up front.

(20:27):
Or even the case that we did where there wasa headstone in the backyard, we did not know
that there was a headstone in the backyardof this family's house until we showed up.
She just failed to mention it because it justdidn't seem like that had anything to do with
what was happening inside.
It was outside.

(20:47):
Yeah, it's like the most obvious thing thatcould cause a haunting, right?
But it's the thing that we needed to know.
I'll be like, wait, wait, wait.
You have to tell us these things.
So I think that is one of the hardest thingsto do, and it takes that journalistic thing.
I always feel like maybe I'm Barbara Waltersor Oprah sitting there trying to pull out

(21:08):
all the information.
Well, I think it is that, because some ofit too is maybe people, maybe they forget,
but maybe it's just a matter of they're notcomfortable talking and you have to get them
past a fear or an old memory that they'vepushed beneath the surface.
So it makes sense.
The name of the show, I was fascinated, itcame from your husband, is that correct?

(21:29):
Kindred Spirits?
Yeah.
First of all, I love the name because Kindredis something that you can relate to, but how
did he come up with that?
Because there was a little bit of an explanationin the book, but I was curious, was it just
channeled and he wrote it on the paper andhe liked it?
Well, that's why, to the dedication, I callhim a phrase maker.
It's from one of our favorite plays, EdwardAlbee, who's afraid of a genuine wolf.

(21:52):
She calls him a phrase maker because he justcomes up with these things.
So he also came up with the title of the book,Goodbye, Hello.
So he's good at titles.
And I think what's interesting about KindredSpirits, that is what we put on the pitch.
When they asked us, well, if you want to dosomething and you just put something together,
even if you're not sold on it, give us anidea.

(22:13):
What we put on paper was what we do on KindredSpirits, and the title of that pitch was Kindred
Spirits, title to be decided.
And it stuck.
And it stuck.
Well, it took a minute.
They love things that start with ghost orparanormal or dead.
And so I think we went through ghost files.

(22:34):
They gave us a list of-
I think it's what sets you apart though too,and it really does sum up what you're trying
to do, which is make a connection.
So I think of a kindred spirit, someone Iwant to hang out with.
And he came up with a-
Shout out to him.
That's a great title.
Shout out.
And I think it stuck.
You might have to scroll to the K and it mightnot be a G or an A in the lineup, but just

(22:58):
scroll down.
It's good.
No, it's fine.
And I think also there is a saturation pointwith some of the other stuff.
So again, what's setting you apart is thisconnection that you're making.
So one other thing in the book that I lovedwas you talked about how your experience doing
what you do has actually brought you closerto a spiritual connection, and this is versus

(23:20):
a religious organized religion.
And I think the way you put it was, spiritualityis about looking inward, whereas a lot of
organized religion is about looking outwardsfor just a connection and understanding.
Do you want to talk a little bit about maybehow...
Because I think it would surprise people.
The same is true for what I'm doing.
I feel like it's a deeper connection thatI have years in after doing this than I ever

(23:44):
felt sitting in a church sometimes.
So what was your experience with that?
Yeah, there came a point in my life whereI hated to be told I needed to feel and think
and believe a certain way.
And that's not necessarily a bad thing.
Some people really love that.
Some people love structure, they love theorganization of it.
They love the ritual of it.

(24:06):
Because that's what it is.
Religion, things like that, it's a ritual.
Especially Roman Catholics y'all, you loveyour incense-
So many rituals, yeah.
... and singing and bells and whatever.
By the way, it's almost like magic, right?
Yeah.It's theatrical.
Hello.
It's theatrical.
It's magic with a K.
With a K.
Yeah, let's go back.

(24:27):
So I think what's interesting about me isI like to pick and choose.
I took some of those things that I grew upwith and carried them with me.
I enjoyed the fellowship, I enjoyed the communityaspect.
Having a community of people, not necessarilythose people, but having a community of people.

(24:47):
Or I love the fact that food was always involved.
It was a table of food and you could feedpeople and it was about taking care of each
other.
I love that.
But then it's religion, so it is the box inwhich they fit what they believe in.
And out of that comes spirituality.
And I love the reverse of that.
I would rather be a spiritual person navigatingthis world, creating my own box that I want

(25:15):
to be inside of that has a lot of doors andwindows that I can open and fly out if I need
to and go do something else.
There was a piece here with, was it John E.L. Tenney
where he was talking about how his near-death
experience, it was not at all what I'd expecteither.
When I was reading it, he saw everythingnessand nothingness and this infinite connection.

(25:39):
And I do think that what it reminded me ofis we're all just shards of the creative energy.
And so we all have that ability to go as bigor as small as we want to.
And I think the way he put it is, he saidhe found power in agency after that experience.
And I think the work you do also, it's thesame thing.
People walk away from after an episode andthey have a sense, this is my home again,

(26:01):
or I have the power to set boundaries or communicate.
What are your thoughts on how the work thatyou do affects people or what impact you're
making with that?
Yeah, I think for me, I don't know, it ebbsand flows.

(26:23):
I think it ebbs and flows at all times.
There are people that you meet that just wantthe experience of going on a ghost hunt.
And you're like, great, I can give you thatbecause that is what you want, and that's
as far as you want to go at this point.
It is fun too, to hear and see things.
I totally get it.
Totally fine.
And then that have been doing it for a whilethat really take to heart our methodologies

(26:47):
and the way that we do it, and they want toknow more.
So they ask you really great questions aboutjust how you go about it and how do you facilitate
an investigation that is meaningful for yourself.
And I was like, well, you set goals.
You set your intention.
You make sure that when you enter the space,you have your intention set of what you would

(27:10):
like to accomplish when you leave.
You can have an experience, great.
But if you want to really find out their name,what is it?
Because they can, I feel like it's interchangeable.
They can feel that.
And so I think it depends on who you're talkingto.
But what I love most about it is that it'suniversal.
Especially when I was writing this book, Ididn't want to make it one-sided.

(27:32):
I didn't want it just to be a ghost book forpeople who love ghosts and love the paranormal.
I wanted it to have enough things in the bookwhere people who love ghosts can get something
from it.
But people who didn't believe in the paranormalcould read these stories from real people
and their experiences and just take somethingfrom it.
Whether it's the conversation of pushing forwardand having hope from my friend Bart from the

(27:54):
last chapter.
Or the dream visitation chapters, a lot ofpeople have dreams of loved ones.
It's like, well, let's talk about that.
That's the subtitle on this too, which isprocessing grief and understanding death,
which is a big part of this because you knowthat something continues, right?
And that's the biggest takeaway for me.
It's like, well, they're like, "Well, whatdo you get from the book?"
I get that there is something else.

(28:16):
It may be different for everyone.
It was different for John, he had that experiencewhen he was very young.
At the time, he was a loner.
He didn't have any organized religion.
And when he crossed into wherever he was,he was alone.
And he was in this forever state forever.
They had no time constraints, only seven minutesthat he was dead.

(28:39):
But it happens.
And when he comes out of it, I love when hesays, I am now after forever.
I'm on the other side of forever, which tome is so beautiful because the other side
of forever is the next journey.
This is forever.
We're going to go into something else, that'sgoing to be forever.
We're going to go into something else andthat'll be forever until it's not.
And it's the other side of forever.

(29:00):
To me that gives my self hope.
So those who might not believe in ghosts butare grieving or going through a loss or dealing
with something their own self, it's somethingyou can literally just meditate about, journal
about, and find the commonalities.
Because again, everything that we're doingis universal, I believe.

(29:21):
I agree too.
By the way, thanks for sharing your own experiencealso with having someone come through and
connect with you.
I had a similar thing when my mom passed acouple years ago, and it just gives you this
sense of continuum, and it's not the sameas having them here in the physical plane.
They do come back by the way, I know you saidsomething in the book where you were afraid

(29:43):
of sharing the dream.
I think it was good that you did that becauseit gives people hope.
And I don't think it's going to be the lasttime you connect or I don't think it's going
to jinx you, but I think it was more justlike that was a very personal thing that you
had to choose to share.
So thanks for doing that.
It was a really beautiful memory too.
Thank you.
I think about it often, and I wanted to putit on paper.

(30:05):
And the biggest reason was my two aunts, AuntWanda and Aunt Patsy, Aunt Wanda and Aunt
Rita, they had had dreams probably aroundthe same time I did, to be honest.
But they never talked about it until it casuallycame up in conversation.
And I was like, if they had only talked aboutit or if we had talked about it as a family

(30:26):
earlier than this moment, oh my God, we'retalking almost 10 years down the road.
If we had just talked about it a little bitearlier, that closure, that aha moment, oh,
that's wild and crazy.
She did it for everybody.
That could have helped us I think, a littlebit sooner.
I think that it's much more experiences withthe other side, with the great beyond.

(30:50):
It's much more prevalent, but there is fearof judgment, of being laughed at.
And I know I used to have a regular corporatejob where I left, and I remember starting
to do this and just wondering, I wonder whatthose people think.
I'm at a point now, I don't care.
But there comes a point where you just haveto embrace it.
It's like I read cards and I talk to deadpeople, but it's fine.

(31:11):
But I think not everyone's there.
Although one of the things that I liked inyour book too was there was a chapter about
accessing different parts of your brain.
There's some research that's been done onceyou die.
Maybe this is just us waking up and connectingwith that latent skill that I do think we
all have, and it's just a matter of not overcomingfear.

(31:32):
That's also a big theme in your book too,not being afraid of just looking at the unknown.
You did it in Gettysburg.
That was another question I had.
A lot of people would've run away when theysaw that residual haunting, but you went further
down the path into that.
So what is it maybe that in your own personality,is it curiosity?

(31:55):
Maybe then it was the thrill, but what isit that keeps you wanting to turn off the
lights and turn on the recorder and continuingto connect with things that are unknown?
I'm curious.
Well, I think the biggest reason is that wedon't know everything still.
We don't know everything.
Research theory, right?
Yeah.
It's research.
It always changes.

(32:15):
Something happens and it changes the way youthink about something else that happened.
And so it's always evolving and flowing, whichI love.
I think that's really cool.
That's research, it's always ever-changing.
I think the Gettysburg experience for me wasa, almost like a desperation moment.
It was like, if you're going to do something,do it now.

(32:36):
It's going to happen, right?
And what's crazy, I tell people now, don'thave that attitude because you're going to
miss something that's right in front of yourface.
So the fact that it happened for me and Ihad that mentality and attitude, I know it
was meant to be.
I know that it was put in my path for a reason,and I think it was one of those moments that

(32:58):
when it started happening, it was like, okay,great.
For some reason I knew that I was safe.
I knew that what was happening was supposedto be happening, and I needed to push the
boundaries as far as I could.
I don't even think I talk about this in thebook, but did I talk about the little cat's
eye orb that came up?

(33:18):
You did not.
No.Okay.
So the story gets a bit, so once I walkedinto the line of trees, I could hear what
sounded like footsteps around me.
I could hear again the rebel yell where it'slike, whoa, it's very distant, weird, light,
anomaly, spark, whatever.
But then this little tiny cat's eye orb, thesize of a cat's eye, like a real orbit.

(33:42):
It was lighting up the side of the tree, cameout of nowhere and stopped in front of my
path where I could go.
And then it shot off in a direction as ifto say, come this way, right?
Come this way.
Wow.
And then like any good horror movie, I turnedaround and left.
You did it.
I got out.
Okay.That was good.

(34:05):
Because I was like, this is a bit, this isa bit, this is a right.
And I left.
But I felt okay to leave because I was gettinga little, I don't want to freak myself out
about it.
That was very weird.
I knew that it was calling me in the direction.
Maybe there was something I could have seenor something I could have, I don't know.

(34:27):
But I've seen too many horror movies-
That makes it more relatable.
I was like, wow.
He just had all the courage because even forsomeone-
Walking into the trees was fine.
Getting in there and having the experiencewas fine.
But when that little thing showed up and thenwas like, boom, I was like, no, no, no, I'm
out.I'm out.
I'm out.I'm out.
Well, to that end, what's the weirdest thingthat maybe didn't make it to camera off Kindred

(34:51):
Spirits or just something that you didn'thave all the gear there and you're like, God,
I wish I could have captured that, eitherquirky or unexpected, that has been on the
cutting room floor that you wish people couldsee?
There've been moments with clients that arereally intense, that we've chose to remove
just because it was emotional.

(35:11):
That makes sense.
Or even funny.
There was a lady who, I adored her and shehad the greatest one-liners you've ever seen
in your entire life.
And I was like, we can't put any of this ontelevision.
But it's things like that.
Paranormal wise, if it happened and it wasbig, you're going to see it.

(35:32):
That's the nature of what we're trying todo.
But there was always little things.
I think when we filmed at Palmyra New Yorkat the Spiritualist Sybil Phelps house, she
was a spiritualist.
I was doing an interview and I heard-
She's the one that did seances, right?
Back in the day.
Yeah.She had the seance.
She was one-
That was a fun chapter.Incredible.
And we fought to keep that in because we werelike, this is where we come from.

(35:57):
Her experience coming back to us, conjuringher at her seance table in her parlor, her
showing up is proof-of-the-afterlife.
I'm sorry.
It is to me.
Because that was her religion.
She felt that she could do it when she wasalive.
She was doing your work then.
It was just a different version of paranormalinvestigation.
Exactly.
And so at that location, we had a ton of activitythat we couldn't show.

(36:19):
There was a disembodied male voice that happenedbehind me.
We played cards with a ghost.
And you're like, how did you do that?
I was doing the Estes method with the blindfoldon the headphones, and I had the spirit box,
and Amy would lay out cards, and then I literallyjust translated what he wanted to do next
with the cards, literally playing cards withthe ghost, which is bizarre.

(36:42):
Or at the end of the episode, I had movedthe doctor's bag into a room where there was
a bunch of morning stuff, like morning dressesand morning room.
And when I moved the bag into the room becausethat was the brunt of the activity, it was
attached to this bag.
I came back to the room with Amy and we wereasking questions and just like the Haunted

(37:04):
Mansion in Disney World, you could hear thesefootsteps coming down the hallway and you
heard wooo.
Whoa.The saddest moan.
And we were like, oh no, my God.
And I went and got the bag out of the roomand moved it.
And I don't know if that made it to the episode,but it's weird things like that that happened

(37:25):
that aren't either the biggest thing thathappened or it wasn't something that led us
to our conclusion, which just makes no senseto put it in.
I wish we had three hours to do these episodes,it'd be better.
I'm sure that there's an audience out theresomewhere, so put it out there.
But speaking of, you were talking a littlebit about the Estes method, just in case people

(37:50):
don't know you use a spirit box, but basicallyone of you, like me, will have headphones
on so you can't hear the other person.
They ask the questions, and it's a way tonot be influenced because sometimes with a
spirit box, it's static and then words popout.
Is that correct?
Right.
So this is a way where you can use your ownintuition and filter a little bit too.
And the questions that are being asked bythe other person usually are history, factual

(38:14):
related research that the person listeningdoesn't know anything about.
So if they start mentioning names from thething that they're holding, it's really cool.
What's great about it?
I think there's a psychic element to it.
There is, yeah.
It's hard to explain on television.
So yes, you do hear words.
It's in between the static it sounds likech, ch, ch, but you hear Adam.

(38:40):
It's not just like Adam one quick thing.
It's also sounds very distant like you'rereaching through the static to hear it.
Then at times you feel the need to say certainwords or phrases and you just feel the need.
I think we did an episode where I was doingthe Estes method and we were doing a group
therapy session in an asylum, and my friendsaid, what color makes you calm?

(39:06):
And for some reason I was just yellow, butI just felt the need to say the word yellow
and it matched exactly with what she was saying.
There have been times where you feel whatthey are feeling.
You feel their anxiety or happiness or sorrow,and you're feeling and you try to describe
it.
And then rare but occasionally you'll getthe visualization of what they're projecting,

(39:29):
something that was traumatic in their life.
I remember doing the toboggan inn and I keptsaying, mom or she left.
And I remember getting a distinct visual ofthis woman in a tan dress that went down to
mid-calf.
She had pantyhose on, a little kitty cat heel,and then she literally was in a doorway and

(39:50):
then walked away.
And it was as if I was sitting on the groundas a child.
It was plain as day.
It was in my mind's eye and I could see it.
I knew it was connected to the person thatwas talking.
That's the idea.
Also, anyone can do it.
It's an acquired taste.
I think you just have to practice it, butanyone can do it.
It's not like it's a special power or anything.

(40:10):
It sounds to me from the book and from whatyou're talking about too, you're just developing
your intuitive skills because you're talkinga little bit of clairvoyance, clairsentience,
clairaudience.
So sometimes you're hearing it, sometimesyou're feeling it, sometimes you're seeing
it.So this tarot cards, it's one way to access.
And I had thought about this morning, I'mcurious if you appreciate or prefer to have

(40:34):
that level of abstraction rather than doingwhat Chip does or sometimes what I do and
talking straight to the other side.
Would you ever want to develop your mediumshipfurther than it already is?
Because you are there, you're starting toenter into it.
So I always say, by the way, I love your dogmaking the cutest bed.

(40:55):
Oh my God.This is Apollo costar of my life.
No, listen, I can't give enough of that dogis like, where is my bed?
Why isn't it not fluffy?
It's so cute.
To the second question, I think everyone hasan ability.
I think you just have to hone it.
I think we're all connected.
I think that the idea in the book where wewere talking about the death experience and

(41:20):
your brain is firing, it's actually creating,it's not misfiring.
It's actually working and creating, and it'salmost like-
Like an activation.
I think some psychics, and I pose that inthe book, maybe some people just have an early
activation.
They clicked into that section and I thinkyou can find it.
So while I can't talk to your relative orI can't give a cold reading or anything like

(41:45):
that, I do think in paranormal investigation,being aware of your senses and your surroundings
heightens your own psychic ability.
I can walk into a room and I can tell youwhether or not we're going to get activity.
It's as simple as, I describe it as if you'relooking at an apartment or a house to buy
or rent, and you walk in, you go, this spacefeels great.

(42:08):
Or you're like, this space, something's bad.
I don't like it.
It's the same exact feeling except you'relooking for ghosts.
And so, yeah, I do believe that there is apsychic thing to paranormal investigation when
you're a paranormal investigator, especiallyif you've worked with someone for so long,
the two people working off each other verywell.

(42:28):
When we started Kindred Spirits, Amy and I,we would say, I would look at her and I'd
be like, "Yeah?"
And she'd be like, "Uh-uh?"
I'd be like, "Oh," and she would go, "True."
And I'd be like, "Same."
That doesn't go well for TV.
They need it for TV.
So you had to start to overcome that a littlebit.
The camera operator, be like, "Guys, we haveno idea what you're talking about.

(42:48):
I know you do, but can we just explain itfor the people at home?"
And so it's that kind of thing.
And so I think it's if you investigate withpeople who you get along with, who you built
a relationship with, which I talk about in
some of my lectures, I think it promotes positivity.
It promotes really great energy.
I think-
Safety too.
You have to feel safe to be open.

(43:10):
Yeah, I think they feel that energy.
I think they want to be a part of that energythat you're giving off, that you're creating.
You should have to leave your baggage at thedoor.
But yeah, I will continue to develop all ofmy skills in this life because I think it
can only do good, it can only help.

(43:31):
I agree.
Yeah, no, just as someone who has some mediumshipas I was watching, and I'm like both you and
Amy are because you're seeing and hearingthings without the tech gear.
So I just wanted to give that confirmation.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
I did have one of the shamans that we workwith who's very psychic and connected, said
that to us at one point.

(43:54):
And I was like, I felt really honored.
I was like, oh, this wise older gentlemanwho's so great.
You've got it kid.
You've got that it.
And I was like, thanks.
It's just practice that's really with anything.
Some people, it's super easy.
Chip can just go there.
The rest of us, we work a little harder, butit's all there if you want it.

(44:17):
For sure.
Quick question, if you could go back, andI remember reading in the book sometimes you
said you wish you could have spent more time,I think with the nurses, for instance.
Is there any case where, whether it's a privateclient or something on Kindred Spirits or
ghost hunters, is there anything where youwish you could go back and spend more time
or would you have approached it differentlyand maybe why?

(44:41):
Or are you pretty happy you did the best youcould in every situation?
Listen, I don't like putting too much pressure
on the should have, coulda, woulda of an investigation.
That's smart.
Because then you feel like, oh, I could havedone better, because always evolving.
So me looking at a ghost photo when I was16 is very different than me looking at a

(45:05):
ghost photo now.
I'd be like, that's not a ghost I can tellyou what it is.
So I think we evolve.
So I don't want to do that but I think thereare cases, for instance, these big places
that everyone likes to investigate, WaverlyHills, Pennhurst Asylum, Trans-Alligator,
Lunatic Asylum, these giant locations thatare very haunted.
There's always going to a spirit or someone,they're reaching out for someone, there's

(45:30):
always going to be next.
The nurses in Waverly Hills.
Yes.
I want to get back there specifically then-
Maybe that's a better question.
Is there either a wish list place that you'dlike to go to or unfinished business somewhere
where you like, you know what, I want to doa little bit more here?
Maybe that's a better way to phrase the question.
Yeah.
Well, Waverley's for one, we still haven'tmade it back to that nurse's wing.

(45:50):
And I want to check on my girls.
I want to check on my girls or men, whoever.
I want to check on you guys, figure out what'shappening because I think they deserve it,
they deserve that.
And you talked about the power of prayer andpositivity there too.
And I think that was beautiful too, becausebringing a peace or neutrality to the space
that wasn't there.
Trying to give them something that they can'tget for themselves.

(46:13):
I think when you pray for other people orfor souls, I think it actually helps them.
Yes, it makes you feel good, but I think inturn it also makes them feel good.
It does.Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
It's like when you pray for other people.
So that for sure, there's always the fun onesthat we'd love to get into like Graceland.
Let's get into Grace.
That'd be cool.We find the ghost of Elvis.

(46:35):
The White House.
people have always talked about it being haunted.
Disney World, get me into Disney World.
Let's do that.
There's fun things like that.
And then, there's probably a countless numberof other cases that are just out there that
we don't know about.
It's going to be the next thing.

(46:56):
It's going to be the next thing that we wantto go and do.
Because again, not thinking of it as justhaving experiences, thinking of it as what
can I do to help the living and help the dead?
It's like it happens without us knowing.
It's like we're waiting for that case file.
A synchronicity.
You're trying to create that perfect connection.
Yeah, exactly.
To that end, when you're all said and doneand ready to go to the great beyond, what

(47:20):
is the legacy that you are hoping to leavebehind with all this research?
And you're also a little bit of a documentaryperson here too.
So I'll add that to the list of four otherthings that we talked about.
Because there was this really cool thing.
You have a ritual you were talking about withgravestones where you talked about two different

(47:41):
deaths.
There's the physical death and then there'sthe death.
I don't know if it was three lifetimes.
I'm trying to remember.
It takes three generations to be forgotten.
It's a Native American saying where you dieyour first death, and then your second death
is when no one ever says your name again.
So walking through cemeteries, which clearlylove a good cemetery, but walking through

(48:06):
an old cemetery, especially in New England,and it's overgrown and over...
You can see seeing a name, reading the name,and bringing that person back to life for
that moment and reading their epitaph andthinking about what their life could have
been like, and maybe asking some questions.
I think that to me is beautiful.
And so I guess legacy wise, that's a toughquestion.

(48:29):
You're a bit of a story and then you're helpingcarry on the remembrance of people or telling
their stories, giving them a voice.
I think for me, I guess you want people tobe like...
Actually, it's scary to say what you want,because then what if you want now isn't what

(48:51):
you want in 20 years.
So let's just leaveit at, it's going to be whatever it's going
to be.
And if I end up being forgotten in three generations,
I hope someone reads my tombstone at some
point.Or your book.

(49:13):
Or my book.
Or the book that you find at the dollar bin.
Just whatever.
I hope that much.
And I think that's what we can all just, that'sreally all we can hope for is just having
something that's like ours forever and lettingit just stand that way.

(49:36):
And if not, then that's the way it is.
Good answer.
And I agree.
You're allowed to change your mind, by theway, to the legacy.
That's a tough question that even I wouldsay, I don't know.
I'm a work in progress.
And listen, that's a good question though.
That's a really good question.
Let's talk a little bit more about the book.
Is there anything about your book that I didn'tbring up that you'd like to talk about?
The creative process, what you hope to accomplishwith this, who might benefit from reading

(50:01):
this, and feel free to fill them in?
Well, yeah.
Again, I think this book is, it's for everyone.
I don't think it's one-sided.
I think that's why it doesn't say ghost inthe title.
Also good, yeah.
I think if you like ghosts and you like paranormalstories and you like to deep dive into what

(50:23):
a ghost actually is and why they stick around,I think that's a great book for you.
If you're looking for comfort because you'velost a loved one or you're grieving over the
death of even a pet, I think it can help youbecause it talks about how there is something
else and you're not alone.
And there's other things besides this existenceand have faith in that situation.

(50:47):
I think the coolest thing though, that cameabout, and we touched briefly in earlier,
our religion.
When I talk about religion, that chapter that,I think it's chapter four or five in the book,
I moved it, we moved it there because it waslike chapter nine, and I was like, no, no,
no, we got to put this-No, it's important.
... on top.

(51:07):
And the reason why is because A, I wantedto just call out the fact...
My friend Greg Newkirk mentioned this in ourinterview with him, but calling out the fact
that the paranormal genre in Western civilizationis very Christian.
It is extremely Christian.
It comes from a Christianity background.
You can meet someone who's atheist, who believesin demons, which is okay, why not?

(51:32):
So I think it was important to put that outthere.
It was important to touch briefly on otherreligions to say that everybody talks about
ghosts in different ways, but I can't speakon that because I'm not part of that religion.
However, I think it was important for myselfand for those who are going to read this book
who are surrounded by Christianity and paranormalChristianity and all that, to talk about what's

(51:55):
actually in the text of the Bible.
And so for me, it's always been used againstme in terms of people would slide in the DMs
or in the messages and be like, you are doingsomething wrong.
You say you're a Christian, or you went toschool or went to Baptist, whatever.
You were speaking to demons, it's not a ghost.
It was a story of Saul basically, where hehad cast out all of the mediums and then went

(52:18):
to a medium himself.
So I thought that was fantastic.
It's amazing.
It's that stuff.
It's the fact that I met with Matt Arnold,who dissected the original Hebrew text for
the time that it was written, for the societyit was written, and where he talks about Jesus,
who everyone says, Jesus says this, that andother.

(52:38):
He never said, ghosts don't exists.
He walks on water and the disciples are yellingat him.
He's a ghost.
He's a ghost.
And he says, I am a divine being.
Ghosts don't walk on water.
He doesn't say ghosts don't exist.
And so for me, having that exploration withthis theologian, this professor who is looking

(53:00):
into the paranormal and comparing the twosides, having him tell me from the actual
text that, no, no, no, it's okay to look atall this stuff.
Look at what they did in the Bible.
They were receiving messages through fire.
Jesus.
Jesus was talking to-
Hello.
Jesus is the ultimate medium, actually.
He's a medium.
He's a healer.

(53:21):
And he did crazy, supernatural things, butso did a lot of other people.
All the disciples were receiving messagesas well.
There's a lot of weird supernatural stuff,near-death experiences, resurrections, all
kinds of-
Tell me about it.
Suddenly a deck of cards or an EVP is notsuch a crazy thing because it's just one way

(53:41):
of connecting.
I'm with you on that.
So I wanted to put that first and foremostbecause somebody might pick up that book and
start reading it and have very strong opinionsabout this is not good.
They've been told it's evil in other words.
Right.
In that box, they've been told in that boxthat this is an evil thing, like tarot cards

(54:02):
and sigils and whatever.
And I just wanted to point that out and getit out of the way so that it's like, no, no,
no, no.
Here it is.
Get it out of the way.
Take it for what you will.
And I think that is a really important chapter.
So if you get past that chapter and you keepreading, thank you.
If you hate me after that chapter, make surethat you post online that you hate me and

(54:24):
burn the book with a video so that it goesviral.
Still get engagement.
Buying the book to burn it.
Just let's do that.
Ban the book in Florida.
Let's just do something.
By the way, I highly recommend listening tothe audio version of this one.
I got both the print version and the audioversion, actually the digital too, so I can
take notes.
So you got three from me.

(54:44):
But I think-
Thank you.
The reading of it is great.
And you have a little bit of a background.
Some folks may not know this, but I thinkyour first career trajectory was more Broadway
or acting.
Is that correct?
Yeah, so I went to school for musical theater.
I grew up in Muscle Shoals.
So if anyone's seen the documentary MuscleShoals on Netflix, you're going to know why

(55:05):
I chose a path like singing path.
It's recording capital of the South beforeNashville.
Everyone recorded there.
We grew up around people that were writingfor famous musicians.
And so when I said I want to be a singer,people would say, okay.
They wouldn't say get a real job.
They'd be like, great.
And so I grew up in the theater.
I grew up singing in church, and I went toschool at the Boston Conservatory and I was

(55:28):
always fascinated by ghosts.
Ghost was a hobby.
And I think once I met my husband, Ben, wehad the same interest.
He went to the Guthrie in Minneapolis, studiedclassical theater, studied in London.
So we had these same interests.
Ghost was one of those.
And so we would explore together and thenall of a sudden the hobby became the career.
Which is a blessing, a lot of people can'tsay that.

(55:54):
My husband and I run a nonprofit theater companyin Provincetown, so we're still in the theater.
I could still win a Tony one day, don't geta twisted kids.
You can find me on YouTube belting my faceoff.
It's fine.
So it's like, you know what it's still thereand I think there's something to it, but I

(56:15):
love that you bring it up because a lot ofpeople, when they meet someone or when they
know about someone, they only know one sideof that.
And we all have different sides of our livesand our talents and our experiences.
And so yes, Paranormal investigation and thestudy of the supernatural is a giant part
of my life, and I love it so much, and I willdo it forever and ever and ever, and I will

(56:37):
never stop doing it and I'll explore.
But I also, I like my dogs and I love theater,and I love to sing and perform and act, and
I love to go on vacation and I love a goodmartini.
So let's branch out.
Well, by the way, this is the one thing thatI think everybody doesn't get with people
that are in paranormal.
I don't take cards to go meet friends fordinner.

(57:00):
I'm not reading people in the room.
It's like we're normal people that have extraordinary
experiences, but also in very compartmentalized
parts of our lives.
It's not something where you're on everywhere,maybe certain mediums on TV.
Listen, and that's a human nature.
That's human nature, it's for everyone.
I'm a doctor, I'm a brain surgeon.

(57:23):
Yes, you are, but they probably like golf.
I'm going to assume.
Exactly.
They like other things.
So I appreciate bringing it up.
But to that effect though, I think it didhelp me with the audiobook.
I was like, I love that I can sit here andnarrate this and really make the information

(57:49):
one way, but make the stories really vibrantand-
It felt like a conversation actually, likethis.
You were just talking and sharing pieces fromyour life.
And I thought that the organization was goodtoo, because it was just like we did start
off early, but then it was just pivotal lightbulb moments.
That's what it reminded me of from that experiencewith the woman who was going through a terminal

(58:10):
experience to also, you talked about, I think
one of your friends who had a mediumship experience
with someone that a mutual friend was passingor whatever.
But there were these moments where you justthought, this world is bigger than I thought
it was.
And it just kept getting bigger and biggeras the book continued.
Okay, so I am going to blow your mind fora second if we have time.

(58:32):
Yeah, we have time.... with a story.
So yes, bigger and bigger and bigger.
But then this is how small the world actuallyis in terms of what we are doing here.
I recorded the audiobook in the summer, andI had four days of different sessions throughout
the entire summer.
And when they approached me originally, theysaid, we want you to come to New York.
We have a studio here that you can do it inNew York.

(58:53):
And I was like, well, I live on Cape Cod.
Is there any way we could do it somewherein Boston because it's summer, please let
me get out.
It's going to take forever to get off theisland.
And so they said, yeah, there's a place inArlington right outside Boston.
And so I drove up and I spent the first twodays back to back recording my book, and I
was getting to know my engineer who was workingwith me.

(59:16):
He went to Berkeley.
Boston, and Berkeley shared a lot of things.
I went to Emerson, so I'm familiar with the-
Yeah.
So we had a lot of different...
He graduated in 2004, I graduated in 2005.
We have a lot of similarly experiences.
We talked about the same cafeteria lady, andI was like, girl, she was great.

(59:38):
Just like whatever.
We had the same little friends and we weretalking, and it made a really great welcoming
environment for this process that was verydifficult.
So we get to the third day and we finishedit, and we're almost to August, and he's like,
"Hey, listen, I take August off to be withmy kids because before they go back to school,
so I'm going to have my other engineer workwith you just to finish up the book.

(59:58):
It's going to be great.
You're in good hands."
And I said, "You know what?
This is awesome."
But I'm sad because we had just finished thefirst section of chapter 11, which was the
dream chapter.
And I said, my friend Yvette, who went toBerkeley had this really crazy experience.
And so no spoiler alert, but I started explainingto him the story of Yvette's friend who suddenly

(01:00:20):
passed away.
They all found out about it.
He came to her in a dream multiple times totell her information.
He confirmed it with actual factual information.
It is just the wild dream.
There was a funeral that happened in Pennsylvania,and it was snowing in late April, and everyone
thought it was so weird.
That was beautiful.
And I start to explain this beautiful storybecause it's one of the most mind-blowing

(01:00:42):
stories for me, that's in the book.
I said, well, I changed the friend's nameto Patrick because of the family.
And again, I'm not going to use his real namehere, but I said, I changed the name to Patrick.
And he looks at me and goes, "Peter?"
And I stopped and I said, "Yes."

(01:01:06):
And he was like, "Peter, guitar player, Berkeley?"
And I said-
He knew.okay.
Wow....yes.
And he goes, "He was my best friend."
And I said, "What?"
And he goes, "He was supposed to play guitarat my wedding two weeks after he died, two
weeks after he died."
And I was like, "Uh-huh?"

(01:01:26):
And then I continue the story.
And I tell him the whole thing because atthis point I'm like, I don't know how he's
going to receive.
This guy, his job is to be an engineer torecord audiobooks and podcasts.
And he's sitting here in front of me and I'mtelling him the story about his friend came
to another friend who he did not know Yvette.
He knew Yvette's partner at the time thatshe was with at the time.

(01:01:48):
He knew him but did not know Yvette.
And so he went home, he read that chapter.
He texted me that night and said, I'm finishingthis book out with you.
I'm finishing it for my friend.
Now I want people to really grasp what thatmeans.
Out of the thousands of places I could haverecorded this audiobook, I ended up in a studio

(01:02:09):
with the person who was best friends of someonewho suddenly passed away that did not know
the end of the outcome of the story.
Also, he would've never picked up my book.
He's not into the paranormal.
He would've never picked up my book off theshelf and read it.
And also, there was an entire set of friendsthat were separate from Yvette and her friends.
So Yvette and her friends got all that informationfrom Yvette when it happened, when the dream

(01:02:32):
happened.
And then 15, 16 years down the road, thisentire new set of friends are finally getting
that closure, which is so crazy to me.
If I remember correctly, reading it, Patrick,we'll call him, but he was very intent.
Is this the one that went three times thatwas bothering?
Yes.
So he really wanted to get the message throughto make sure that the family knew that-

(01:02:57):
Yeah, it was a mistake, it was an accident.
And they downplayed it.
They said it was natural causes, and it wasn't.
Feels like spirits making sure, absolutelysure that everybody he needs to know found
out.
So this is one more finger of that.
What's so crazy is I finished that entirechapter with something like this.

(01:03:22):
Maybe this is his final performance.
This is his grand finale.
Getting this story in the book, maybe thisis his grand finale.
And you're right.
No, it wasn't.
The audio producer.
The grand finale comes months later when I'mrandomly recording, and-
That's really cool.
... his best friend is sitting in the roomwith me.

(01:03:43):
And so if people, you don't have to believein ghosts.
But that to me is so, it's almost a miracle.
It's a weird miracle thing.
And for me, it makes me think that Patrickall those years ago went to Yvette because
yes, she was open to receiving this information,but he knew that somewhere down the line that

(01:04:06):
this book was going to be written by myselfand that I was going to be in this same room
with his best friend who didn't know.
And even when it was go crazy, he was like,I was at that wake.
I remember it feeling like it was very strangethat it was snowing.
So it's so bizarre to me.
And when this book goes to paperback, I'mgoing to narrate the hell out of that version.
We're going to attack it at the end of thatchapter.

(01:04:28):
Yeah, Please.
That's beautiful, actually.
And I would think it would be hard not toget emotional there too, because it's just
showing, again, we were talking about legacy.
It's little things like this.
You never really know what an impact you'remaking even with your TV series and other
things, because I think it just helps peoplerealize it's okay to see things or feel things
or wonder about this stuff.

(01:04:50):
So you're normalizing it, having intelligentconversations and normalizing it.
It's wild.
And I think about it, and I still can't wrapmy head around it.
I want it to blow my mind over and over, butI come to terms-
That's a synchronicity-
... I'm just not going to understand-
... if I've ever heard one.
It was meant to be.
You were meant to connect with him, and thewhole reason wasn't just because he was going

(01:05:11):
to do a good job with the audio, but it wasto get the message.
So you were a messenger too, so it wasn'tjust the person who relayed the dream.
So he's working, Patrick's working throughmany people to make sure that everyone finds
out.
It's so wild.
It's so wild.
That's really cool.Thank you for sharing that.
Listen, yeah, it's a blessing.
And when you get to that part of the book,those who haven't read it yet, you're going

(01:05:32):
to be like, oh, no, no, this is great.
You'll really truly understand it.
Well, thank you so much today for spendingsome time.
It's been just a real pleasure and honor,and I look forward to seeing whatever you
guys decide to do next.
Hopefully you get renewed.
I don't know.
That's still out there.
We don't know yet.
Yeah, it's still out there.
If anybody wants to follow, you can.
Well, first you can get the book whereverbooks are sold.

(01:05:53):
Please, this is your chance to plug the bookand your TV appearances, whatever you'd like
to.
Go for it.
First, you can get the book, Goodbye Hello,Processing Grief and Understanding Death Through
the Paranormal, wherever books are sold.
Amazon's easy as Barnes and Noble.
Go to your local bookstore and ask the momand pop to bring it up.
That's always great because they make somemoney.
If you want to follow along, Adam-Berry.comis my website.

(01:06:17):
Yeah, you can Google Adam Berry, you'll findme.
Social media, Twitter, X Adam, J. Berry.
Instagram is Adam Berry.
And then I'm the Adam Berry on TikTok.
Listen, I'm easily reachable through emailand I love to hear from people who have read
the book.
And there's also a special group on Facebook.

(01:06:38):
If you're still on Facebook, there's a specialgroup called Goodbye Hello.
It's just for people who have either readthe book or in the process of reading the
book, it's a safe space for people to exploretheir own thoughts and ideas about the book
related to their own life.
And it's a great community of building relationships,
knowing that you're not alone and that the
ideas in the book are truly universal.

(01:07:01):
Thank you so much.
And again, if you haven't checked out theTV series, please do that as well.
It is different than most ghost hunting shows.
This is more like paranormal investigation,and again, it's done with a lot of heart,
a lot of empathy, and I like that you givepeople what they need to feel like they can
reclaim spaces and feel safe.
So thanks for bringing some integrity to thefield.

(01:07:22):
I do appreciate that as well.
Thank you very much.
It's available on Discovery Plus or Max orwherever.
Kindred Spirits.
Max is where I watch it, but yeah, it's allgood.
Love your T-shirt, by the way, too.
I forgot to mention that earlier.
Thank you.
Listen, I got merch.
Is that your merch?
Okay.
Is that also on your website?
Adamberrymerch.com.

(01:07:43):
I have a lot of different things.
Yesterday I wore one for an interview thatsays I'm a mourning person.
M-O-U-R-N.
M-O-U-R, yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.I like it.
Listen, I like fun, dead pun merch.
And so that's where we are.
No gloom and doom in this one.
No gloom and doom.
No, but I like the ghost one.
I think I'll grab that for myself.
Thank you.So thank you.
All right, everybody, thank you so much.

(01:08:04):
Thank you, Adam, and thanks for being my firstguest too.
I appreciate that.
You're welcome.
Thank you.
Take care.
I'd like to take a moment to say thanks toeverybody who listened to this first podcast.
As many of you know, this has been a laborof love.
I've been planning it for about a year inadvance, and I'm so happy that this has finally
launched.
If you'd like to see more episodes in thefuture, remember to like, subscribe and rate

(01:08:26):
this podcast wherever possible.
And on YouTube, leave a comment.
Let me know what you enjoyed and who you'dlike me to talk to in the future.
Finally, if you want to give back a littlebit extra and support projects like this,
you can also become a YouTube member and youcan get more information on my main YouTube
channel page.
Thanks again, and I hope to see you soon.