November 20, 2023 • 49 mins
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What if you had a front-seat ride into the mind of a horror author? Get ready for a terrifying journey with prison worker and writer, John Lynch, as we uncover his unique writing process and delve into the eerie world of his upcoming horror novella. John gets candid about his day job, his writing passion, and how he masterfully juggles the two. Listen in and get a glimpse of his creative process, right from his unconventional writing setup to the creative spark behind his spine-chilling tales.
Strap in as we traverse the nightmare engine of John's debut horror novel "The Warrior Retreat." We explore the fascinating blend of horror and romance, breaking down reader expectations and the unique narrative style that sets his work apart. We reveal the supportive community surrounding Lynch's work and discuss the mechanics of the horror genre. Stay tuned as we delve into the promotion strategies for his upcoming Christmas horror book, the business dynamics of writing, and the niche status of horror as a genre.
Ever wonder what fuels the author's fear factor? We explore the impact of real-life experiences like PTSD and military service on John's horror writing. As we wrap up our chat, be prepared to have your mind blown by the fear factor in Lynch's writings and how it captivates his readers. It's a thrilling journey into the alluring world of horror writing that you won't want to miss. So, sit back, relax, and prepare for a thrilling ride.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Nightmare Engine
podcast.
It is November 19th, so I'mgoing to give the data away.
This time we're looking atepisode number three of season
two.
I think that's right.
It's a cool show today.
It's a really cool show.
It's Sunday afternoon, it's,and it feels good to be on again
so quickly, without massivedelays, so we've got a full
(00:24):
stacked house today.
My co-host is quiet over there.
Jay Bauer, how are you?
I'm doing good, man.
How are you doing today?
Pretty good.
So what is on the choppingblock for you?
What do you got?
What do you got for me?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Oh, he froze up on us .
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Of the three of us, it was David.
Oh, I froze, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Oh, that's weird.
Oh, okay, let me ask again.
So what's on the chopping blockfor you?
What do you?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
got Just working on a couple new projects Working on
our project Big Fricking Spider,and also working on an iBiter
story which kind of ties in alittle bit with our guest today.
But yeah, just working on thatand getting my new, my little
(01:10):
Christmas chat book out in thewild.
It's been pretty cool to seethe reaction to that too.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
That's awesome, and so that iBiter story that is
from your conservators'collective story, that three way
written right.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I wouldn't say three way, but yeah, it's the book
that I wrote with John Lynch andJohn Durgan.
We each have three brand newnovellas, kind of based on a
certain theme, and this, thetheme of this one, was derelict
and we all kind of took it inour own direction and really
enjoyed my character and I had alot of super positive feedback
(01:50):
and I was like you know what,let's do more.
And so I'm working on doing one, maybe two, maybe even three
books.
It depends on how this allshakes out.
But yeah, you enjoyed thethreesome.
Yeah, it was a lot of fun.
It was John, john and Jay.
I mean.
You know why not?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, so we.
At this point, it would be.
I would be remiss if I didn'tintroduce our guest here.
So anyways, I don't know, jaygave it away, but we've got Mr
John Lynch on the side.
How are you, sir?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I'm doing good.
How are you guys doing?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Good, good man, good.
So your folks can't see it, butyou're calling in from your
vehicle outside of work.
Yes, where is that?
What side of the country areyou in?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
I'm on the East Coast , I'm in Rhode Island.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Rhode Island that's a state.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Yes, Very small one.
I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Between Massachusetts and Connecticut.
And so what are you doing for aliving man?
Speaker 3 (02:56):
I work at a prison.
It's my day job, and thenwriting is my hobby.
Hopefully one day I can make ita living, but right now it's
just kind of like something I'mdoing and I really enjoy doing
it.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
But I didn't know they let you have electronics
and laptops in prison.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
No, they don't.
I keep it in my car, oh okay.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, no, no yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
This can't go in there.
I'm all done.
If I go to America, I leave itall in my car and then I just
come on break.
You know, I grab it and I writeon my break.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Oh, that's cool.
So how long, how long, you beenin prison?
Business, corrections,corrections, business.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I mean corrections.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
For about 10 years.
Oh, my 11th year.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
This is actually my 11th year now Same prison, or a
couple of different ones, orsame prison.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, the same one, yep.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
That's awesome.
So do you have?
I mean, I assume you'veestablished some relationships
with the people that you are incharge of there.
I mean, you've seen a lot ofthe same folks.
You know people aren't goinganywhere.
It's not like county jail,right, so it's people who have
extended sentences.
I mean, do you feel like you'vemaybe established some
relationships with them?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yeah, it's, um, I'm in a medium security prison, so
their sentence guys here, um,everybody that's here sentenced,
you know, and it could beanything from.
It could be anything from undera year to life, depending on
the circumstances and stuff likethat.
It just really kind of dependson the depends on what they've
got going on and how there are,but there's, you know, there's
(04:30):
people that you see once and younever see them again, and if
they're doing a short time, andthen there's guys who it's kind
of sometimes it's like arevolving door, you know just
kind of prison goes.
Some guys come go once and theynever come back, and other guys
it's kind of a all the timething with them.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah and um, and so you said you've got some time to
write.
Um, I guess on break you comeout to the car and get some
words in, or something.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Yeah, because, um, I usually end up work on the days
that I work I usually pulldoubles, Um, so I don't.
So by the time I get home I'mburnt out.
So I leave my, um, all mywriting stuff I just leave in my
car and then, you know, I go onbreak.
I'm, I go on break, I sit inthe car and I have a.
You can't see, you can't see itright now in the video, but I
have one of those littlesteering wheel Um, oh, yeah,
(05:17):
tests, you know the little trainthat attaches to your steering
wheel and my laptop's propped upon that, and that's, that's how
I write.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
You don't look like a writer.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah, I know, I don't .
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Is there a look?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
I didn't realize there was a look, I know, but
put 1800, put 1800 of themtogether like we went to 20
books.
I just got back from 20 books.
Uh, vegas put 1800 of themtogether and there there there
is a general look, I think, forwriters.
So yeah, I don't know untilthat.
Look Well, that's awesome man.
So, um, if it's no surprise toanybody listening, I mean we
(05:55):
tend to interview horror authorsor those who align themselves
strictly in horror.
Um, we, if people tell us thatit has horror elements and we
don't really think that that'swhat we're looking for.
So, um, you write horror.
What was your?
What was your first?
What was it?
The warrior retreat.
I think that's right.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Yes, um, the warrior retreat was my first release.
I actually had finished myshort story collection prior to
releasing that Um, but I hadtalked to a lot of authors and
publishers and most of them hadtold me um, you know,
collections don't typically dowell, you're better off sitting
on that until you get a book outthere so people can know you
(06:32):
first.
So I had it finished, I had acover, it was almost ready to go
pretty much, and then I decidedto write the warrior retreat,
um, and that was something I hadbeen writing for like two years
.
Um, the first draft of it washorrible.
I mean, first drafts are alwaysbad.
But I look, I look back at thisthing and like there were three
chapter threes back to back andthe story was like all over the
place and it was likecompletely different than it is
(06:53):
now.
Um, and I talked to the sidejust to work on short stories
and other things and kind ofjust learn like the craft of
writing.
Um, because I had startedwriting, I tried it a couple of
times, you know, like a decadeago, and I just got a couple of
rejections and I was like, well,I guess I'm not a writer.
And then I started reallygetting into like the car and
(07:14):
seeing how many people werewriters, I was like, well, why
not, you know, if I keep gettingbetter, if I keep trying?
And then I started to pick up alittle traction with short
stories and then I realized, youknow, like you know, I can do
this as long as I keep learningand improving.
Um, and that's kind of how thewarrior retreat came about, and
so, yeah, so yeah, there's oneroundabout way of saying yeah,
(07:35):
the warrior retreat was my debut.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, you know, that's awesome To hear you say
about um.
You know your first draft andhow it came about, because you
know I've been behind the sceneswith you since like April,
something like May, somethinglike that, you know, and kind of
seeing how your process goeswith our book that we did.
And you know hearing um, youknow hearing what you say about,
(07:58):
you know your drafts and thingslike that.
You know we see all that stuffand and um, hearing what you say
about that, I could absolutelysee you saying like this sucked
and I had three firsts, you knowthree chapters.
Um, because I, you know, we've,we've been through all of this,
which is kind of a cool.
But you know, that was my introto you was the warrior retreat,
and I've read everything thatyou've written so far, um,
(08:22):
almost except for the one yearyou're currently working on.
But um, and I've loved everybit of it.
You know, and I know you've gotI had a lot of military themes
to it, which I'm not military,you know, but I absolutely
relate to the story, absolutelyrelate to your characters and
you brought so much life to them.
You know, because of um,because of your experience and
(08:45):
it, it goes beyond just military.
Right, you know you, I knowyou've got some amazing fans
that um aren't military, thatwill, will, uh, promote your
stuff to the ends of the earth.
You know, I know you've gotsome huge, huge fans, which is
great.
You know, and just kind ofhearing all this backstory is
kind of cool yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Um, I'm sorry, Go ahead, go ahead.
Yeah, I was going to say yeah,my, um, my readers are great
because you know it's, you know,I'm sorry, I think the warrior
retreats a hard.
It's a hard pitch for me.
It's not hard for readers topitch it because they pick up on
the stuff that they really likeabout it, you know, and they'll
sell that to other readers bydoing it.
But for me it's a hard pitchbecause I'm thinking about it.
(09:27):
Well, it's like it's part waraction novel, part like PTSD
exploration, part slasher.
And if you don't like extreme,it's not extreme hard, but if
you don't like extreme hard,you're probably not going to
like it.
Just because my writing styleis, you know, I will get graphic
and violent and explicit.
It's not wall to wall.
(09:48):
You know cover to cover that.
But if you don't like thosethings in your books, then
you're not going to write it.
I mean, enjoy it.
But my readers, you know, thoseare the ones who, like we'll
talk to you about how theypicked up on the PTSD and they
can relate with it, even if itwasn't like their PTSD is not
war related, just to thefeelings of it and things like
that.
So you know, my readers aregreat and they're always helping
(10:10):
me promote where I'm not doinga very good job at it, they're
doing a great job at it.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, I think horror is very unique and it
immediately gives you grounds toconnect to a reader versus
other genres which kind of haveto force it through the
characters.
So by just labeling your bookhorror, you have made that
connection immediately with themand you can tell them exactly
what they should experiencethrough the book.
I mean, that's the same thingwith romance.
(10:39):
So romance of close cousin tohorror, because of that is, you
know, the genre, is the emotion,which is really just kind of
cool.
It's also very difficult.
I think readers have a higherexpectation of what to present
to them.
I think a lot of readers aregetting used to the idea that
there are no jump scares inhorror books.
You can't make something popout of them and so, you know,
maybe they become.
I thought at first it wouldbecome a little disappointed
(11:00):
when they read a horror book andthey're like I'm not scared.
Well then I think then I don'tknow what to say in that regard,
because it's like what might beincredibly terrifying to
somebody may not be, to somebodyelse it's so, it's so unique,
so, depending what broad strokescan be useful in that, in that
regard.
But a lot of times too, it'slike, hey, I wasn't really
(11:21):
scared during this one.
It's like, well, how did itmake you feel?
You know it's being scared andbeing forced to feel something
from horror, I think, is wherethings get a little bit, you
know, a little bit more unique.
I guess you could say I don'tknow, I don't know if you've
experienced that.
I know one of my first books.
I tried to write a jump scareinto a book and I was like this
(11:43):
didn't work.
You know, it's like and thenthis big scary thing.
I just kind of felt like I wasdeflated.
I was like, oh, I've right,here's the big scary thing.
Now, what you know, it's likewhat are we going to do?
It's like, what am I left with?
I'm left with an action scene,pretty much a survival scene or
something like that, or survival.
For the rest of the book.
There's scary things there.
So I mean, when you weretalking about your types of
horror that you write, you knowyou say it's part slash or part
(12:05):
adventure.
I mean, would you say it fallsin the psychological aspect,
would you say it falls into thesupernatural, like where do you
think you fall?
Speaker 3 (12:12):
in line yeah, so the warrior retreat is definitely
it's more, it's morepsychological because it's kind
of, without giving it away, it'sexactly what's going on.
It's kind of like Chris Kyletype of thing, the American
sniper.
So it's definitely it's notsupernatural, it's real, it's
(12:34):
something that could happen.
And I kind of feel like thesame way with with you do about
the jumpscares, because oncethere's a reveal, there's a
reveal.
You know you can't, you can'treveal that.
And I ran into the same thingwhen I was like, Well, once this
first kill happens, you know Ican't.
There's not really a way for meto drag this on for another 100
(12:56):
pages and have this.
You know, this terrible thing.
It's kind of it's got to go Now.
It's going to go balls to thewall for you know the last 40 or
so pages, because I've alreadyhad all this lead up to this and
you know we're ready to go now.
I can't just keep trying to havea guy pop out of nowhere and it
kind of really didn't fit.
You know, it didn't make sense.
(13:16):
Plus, like you said, it just itkind of didn't work.
It's, it's you, probably.
I mean, I'm sure somebody'sdone a jump scare a good way in
a horror book, but it's probably, you know it's not hard, it's
not easy, I mean it's you reallycan't jump scares more of a
visual, visual thing andauditory thing.
So I can, I can make thingsdescribed well and put you in a
(13:37):
setting, but I can't, you know,I can't actually make auditory
noises that are going to usuallybe associated with something
like a jump scare.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, and I know Jay and I were kind of discussing
about our latest book, bigFucking Spider, which is kind of
a really clever title.
I don't think people understandwhat's going to be about about
you know when, when do we showthe big, the big spider?
You know?
Because it's?
I mean, that's the whole pointof the book and we've kind of
(14:10):
talked about it a little bit andsaid you know what it?
Maybe it needs to be on thenose, maybe it needs to be right
there in front of us the wholetime and it just becomes one of
those survival type stories, notnecessarily like grab a
flamethrower, run around youknow, less, less eight legged
freaks, more arachnophobia, ifthat makes sense.
Yes, if you're going to compareit to movies, which I don't
think it's a good, but those twomovies are, I mean, they stand
(14:31):
on two different lines of horror, I think, and it's kind of fun
to think about.
And so, where you retreat, jaysaid you got something else
besides the conservatorsderelict that you're working on
right now.
What, what, what book is that?
Okay so if you can talk about it.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I can talk a little bit about it.
I haven't done a cover revealand I haven't named it or
anybody, but it will say it is aChristmas horror book.
I will say that and it's kindof it's just me having fun with
kind of like a.
It's like a slasher, you know,but it's like I would say it's
(15:10):
more.
Again, it's not extreme hard,but if you don't, if you don't
care for that stuff, you're notgoing to like it.
It's more of like a gory 8090s,8080s, early 90s kind of cheesy
slasher.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
I believe we described yesterday is a
Hallmark Christmas classic.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Yeah, it's going to go right there, right there on
your shelves, with all the youknow, the elf on the shelf book
that you read your kid everyChristmas.
It's going to be right therealong to it.
But yeah, that one is.
So it's almost finished it's.
I plan on doing like thepre-orders the very beginning of
December, because I do.
I know that Releasing aChristmas book without promotion
(15:53):
is I'm almost sending it out todie basically.
So I have to hit really hard onthe pre-orders and I think you
know very early December to givethat lead up, especially
because it's not coming outuntil the end of the month, like
December 22nd.
So I'm barely gonna hitChristmas.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, this would be a great get.
It sound like to me.
You just need to have it aspart of a stocking stuffer for
children under 10.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Yeah, yeah, you man, you would get a lot of great
reviews on that, oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
I'll select the age.
You know the children's age onKDP when I upload it.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, so we?
This reminds me of when ourwriting group so we've been Jane
, I've been part of the samewriting group for about probably
going on four years now and wewere joking because it's romance
author she just like, out ofnowhere, published her first
book and made like six figureson one book, just just threw it
out into the ether and madestupid money off of it.
(16:51):
And I looked at Jay and I waslike I guess you're writing
romance now, dude, and we'rejust gonna call it, we're gonna
write it, we're gonna call itwritten by five guys.
And so that was gonna Answerlike yeah, this is gonna go over
.
Really, really well, we knowit's gonna turn and we know we
didn't know anything about it,about writing romance.
But it's like when you'restarting to see numbers like
that, we're like, okay, maybe,maybe I need to.
(17:12):
You know, maybe there's a pointto this.
But Taking that little box thatsays, you know, written for
children, it's the same thing asus saying like, written by five
dudes, yes, this is exactly,this is exactly what these
romance readers want.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah, I've seen like I'm in groups like the 20 books
to 50k and wide for the win andstuff like that, because I like
to try and Learn about thebusiness from other authors as
much as I can Because I do know,like I've seen, I've seen like
Andrew Van way Show businessstuff where he was showing, like
you know, the breakdown ofspending.
(17:47):
My genre and horror was likethe lowest and the next lowest,
I think was like sci-fi and thatlike is like double the revenue
of horror books yearly.
So I try to learn the businessas much as I can to set myself
up for it.
And yeah, when I see that aboutthe romance and I see authors
being talking about like theyhave like 10,000 pre-orders or
(18:08):
like or 5,000 pre-orders ontheir Book and it's not even
like it's the first book they'veever written.
They don't have any shortstories out and I'm like how did
you even find 10,000 people tolike To take that jump and
pre-order your book when youdon't have a word written and
you have like somehow they havea newsletter with like 50,000
subscribers and it's like Idon't know, I don't understand
(18:29):
how they.
I know I wish I knew how theywere doing it.
But you know, horror is just adifferent beast, I guess it's.
There are a lot of people whowhat kind of pioneered, like
being on ebooks and stuff likethat for a while, but I don't
think the readership has caughton To be as big yet.
It's still kind of a nichegenre.
You know us being horrorauthors and horror readers, we
(18:51):
don't see it as a niche genrebut in comparison to other, to
other readerships, you knowthere's just not as many readers
out there yet.
But I think that's changingwith groups of like book, of
books, of horror on Facebook andtick tock.
I think it's bringing in a lotof people into horror readership
.
That we haven't and I do thinkthat it's gonna start catching
(19:11):
on Sooner rather than later, asfar as you know how many people
are reading it.
It's just a matter of time.
It's.
I think people have just longneglected the horror genre.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Yeah, and I see that you know you're setting yourself
up for that eventual success.
Right, you know for when, whenthose folks start coming to us,
you know start looking at horror, and you know you building that
foundation, building it theright way.
Right, you know putting outquality books, quality stories,
Making those connections withother authors, with the readers.
(19:47):
You know building those thingsup and and.
So when that time comes, whenyou know when they start coming
this way, you know they're likeoh yeah, John Lynch, like yeah,
he's.
You know definitely read hisstuff.
You know he's got great work,you know he's super nice guy,
all that stuff You're justbuilding on the right things and
that's all you know.
That's all you can do.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
You know, and and I've been seeing you doing that
Kind of pretty much every stepof this way- you know, one of
the things that we talked to,one of the other Kind of big
names in the horror community.
So we talked to both Tim Wagnerand we talked to Jonathan
Mayberry, and Both of them comefrom a traditional side but they
(20:27):
do a little bit on their ownkind of indie style, I guess you
could say.
I guess that's what that meansis roll out, you know, having to
be self-sufficient and doing alot of the legwork yourself to
promote your books and stuff sothey can commiserate to a point
with it.
And one of the things that theysaid was horrors making
resurgence.
It's coming back, it's seeingit's being both desired in the
trad industry as well as it isin the independent industry.
(20:49):
And and horror has longsurvived on the independent side
, both in the small press and anindependent horror authors, for
a very, very long time becausethey could not find a place in
the mainstream.
And what we are experiencing isa is a real.
Is a real is theserelationships with readers,
horror readers, that they arejust Waiting for the next book.
(21:10):
They're just.
They just their issues alwaysbeen discovering it.
It's never been do I buy it.
It's always been discovering it.
And so one of the things thatI've, you know, really focused
on the last few years is justmaking myself more available.
That's why we started thispodcast was just so we could
have that more connection withother horror readers and be like
, look, we're here, we, we wantyou to read our stuff.
(21:32):
We write good stuff, I thinkyou know, we think you'd enjoy
it and we'll write the stuffthat you want.
If you communicate with us,tell us what you want, we'll
write, we'll give you exactlywhat you're looking for, you
know?
Yep, so I know that some folkslike to.
There's some folks that arekind of naysayers about you know
.
There are this horse, thesmallest market and and whatnot
is like.
Well, there's an article calleda thousand true fans and, to be
(21:53):
honest, that's that's all youneed.
A thousand people out of thisentire world.
And it's not difficult when youstart looking at those types of
numbers.
You know, one of the things thatI've experienced is that I
don't get a whole lot of lovefrom Amazon for my books ever.
They don't ever show my booksto anybody.
I don't get anythingorganically through Amazon.
So I tell everybody said, go tomy website.
You know, if I, if I'm gonna,if, if I, if Amazon's not gonna
(22:14):
help me, then I I'm not gonnafeed Amazon, I'll feed, I'll
feed myself, and so what readersare starting to be more
interested in is buying directlyfrom the authors that they like
, and so the connections withhorror readers Are very tight.
They want paperbacks, they wantsigned paperbacks, they love
them, they collect them.
I mean, I saw this girl.
She had a coffin shaped Ibookshelf was the coolest thing
(22:37):
in the world.
I was like I'm not a, I'm not a, you know, I'm not like any
kind of devil worship oranything like that, but I'm like
a coffin shaped bookshelf.
That's so cool.
Like you know, if I could getaway with painting my house dark
black on the inside, I would,but I'm not really, you know.
This just makes the housereally dark.
So, but I like the idea of kindof like a Gothic, you know
style house that just horrorimages will like that, though,
(22:59):
and I don't know if yourexperience has been the same way
, but they're just when you meetthem, they're die hard, and
they love to connect with us.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Yeah, that's been my experience.
So I mean, as you guys bothknow, I've only just been
published.
You know, a novel for thewarrior treat is a little bit
over a year old.
It came out on Veterans Daylast year.
But I went to author con andthat was part of the reason why
I put my collection out so fastis because I wanted to have at
(23:30):
least two books out before Iwent to author con and I got a
table and it was dude, it wascrazy.
There's readers there withgigantic like trays, like pull
trays, like something you wouldsee in an airport, somebody
pulling their luggage juststacked with books and books and
books.
And I heard readers telling melike they came over with just
like vacuum sealed bags fortheir clothes so that they could
(23:52):
bring all their books back intheir luggage and stuff and they
just like shipped the clothesback or they were.
Some people were saying theyspent tons of money like
shipping their books back.
And yeah, they're great there's.
The readers are out there, it'sjust a matter of finding them.
Discoverability, anddiscoverability is getting
easier and easier by the daywith places like the like.
(24:15):
I bring it up again the books ofhorror group on Facebook the
last time I looked there waslike 40,000, 43,000 people in
that group.
That's a lot of people justwaiting to read horror book and
even a lot of times still, youknow, everybody's just
discovering like, oh, it's notjust Stephen King, it's not just
Joe Hill and Dean Coots andAnne Rice, there's all these
(24:36):
authors out here and they'retelling their friends about it
and their friends are joiningthe groups and telling other
readers about it.
And it's just discoverabilityis getting easier and easier.
It's just, you know, makingyourself available.
We do because we still are, youknow, into your, whether
self-published or small press,you have to make yourself
(24:57):
available and put yourself outthere to find readers, because
you know the publisher usuallycan't do that for you, either
won't or can't, just because ofthe nature of promotion and what
it costs.
So you know there's a lot ofreaders out there and, like you
said the article about, you knowa thousand will do you.
(25:17):
If you get a thousand peoplewho want to read every one of
your books, man, that's a lot ofpeople buying your books.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I've got like 10, so I'm on my way.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah, we've mentioned short stories a lot here and so
one of the things I set outthis year was I wanted to write
a short story a month.
And so I have a subscriptionwhere my readers get to kind of
vote and stuff and I write ashort story a month.
It kind of forces me to write ashort story a month.
I figured I could dedicatemyself to that and you know,
over the course of the nextthree years it starts to add up.
(25:53):
You know of how many shortstories you really you start
getting really good at them.
I think horror short stories is.
You know that's really big andhard.
You know you gotta publish yourown collection.
I mean, if you're a horrorwriter, you gotta publish your
own collection.
At some point you gotta write avampire of some sort and you
gotta write a zombie of somesort.
I mean, that's just write apassage, right.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
And so you got your first collection.
Did you publish that already,or are you still working on it?
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yeah, so I published that.
I published it like two monthsafter the Warrior Treaty, which
was kind of like that was a badidea too, because it was so soon
after the Warrior Treaty, likepeople hadn't even started
finding that yet, and I hadalready had the second book come
out.
But, like I had said, I didthat specifically because I felt
(26:37):
I needed to have at least twobooks out before AuthorCon last
year.
Otherwise I'm just kind of likewasting money on a table and
not really giving readersoptions so and so well.
Sorry.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
No, no, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Sorry, that came out.
I believe it was like Januaryof 2020.
Yeah, January of this year, Ireally used that.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
And so I was gonna say AuthorCon is where you and I
kind of really met.
Originally you were in the very, very back room with Ronald
Kelly, lucas Miller and a fewothers, just like but way back
there.
And then eventually you gotmoved out and you were kind of
just like right outside the doorfrom where I was at and I know
(27:24):
we talked a lot that weekend.
But it was cool to see thereaders that were getting your
stuff that were like oh yeah,I'm familiar with this Cause.
That's an awesome feeling.
I saw it, I saw it happen withyou quite a bit, which is really
exciting.
And I understand why you wouldwant to get that collection.
I would have done the samething, man, like I absolutely
(27:46):
would have done that.
And, as we all three know,short story collections often
aren't the biggest sellers forhorror authors.
But it is kind of a rite ofpassage in horror.
It's like you have to have acollection, so it.
But it is good and I have readit and I loved it.
And from your feedback, fromyour readers, what story of that
(28:10):
is the one that they bring upthe most?
I think I know, and that's whyyou're smiling.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
One that everybody brings up the most is a cock
meat sandwich.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
So cock meat sandwich .
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Okay, let me.
Let me just make sure I getthat with my clear mic Cock meat
sandwich.
That is the title of the story.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yes it is.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Yes, that's the title of the story and, believe it or
not, that is usually the onethat people liked it the most.
I wrote that one originally forDNT's ABCs of Terror, volume 4.
And the idea was that the themebehind it was like lousy
neighbors and then you each geta letter.
(28:52):
So that's where the ABCs ofTerror came in, because each
author got randomly assigned aletter or you could choose it.
If you were fast enough, youcould, you know, state claim on
a letter.
And originally the story wastitled because I had always
wanted to call it cockmeatsandwich and like I pitched it
like the first paragraph of it.
It was my first time trying towrite something that was like
(29:14):
kind of gross or extreme, so Iwanted to just see if I could do
it and it used.
It was originally publishedunder G is for Gary Gilroy,
because every title was like Ais for this, b is for that and
mine was G is for Gary Gilroy,but in my head the title was
always cockmeat sandwich.
So when I republished it it hadto go under that one.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
And what's the story about?
The story about me.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
About a man who was by himself.
His wife and kids are gone,he's by himself and he's just
got this awful, awful, terribleneighbor.
They're always loud.
The place is like, you know,the neighbor's yard is like a
junk yard.
There's like animal shit on theyard, the grass is like waist
high because he doesn't mow itand it's just kind of like a not
(30:05):
not quite, but the closestthing will be, if you think of
like hillbilly horror type thingand the neighbor and you know
he goes over there and they getinto it a little bit and the
neighbor is just being gross.
And then you know he wakes upone day and he's washing,
washing dishes and over hiskitchen sink and he looks out
the window and the neighbor isbarbecuing his own penis and
(30:27):
then it just goes and then it'skind of like a home invasion
thing from there.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
But you know, and I think the reason why a story
like that has resonated withyour readers, you know, other
than you've got this fantastictitle for it right.
It's just it is.
It's a disturbing thing, likeyou know, having read that, you
know it's.
You have these disturbingvisuals that you just like you,
can't get rid of.
You know, and it's like, andthat that sits with readers, and
(30:55):
the way you write it, you know,with your style and the flow
you're writing and justeverything, it takes something
that's called cockmeat sandwichbut it turns it into something
that's super entertaining,something that lasts with the
readers and something that theywant more of.
And I know we've talked aboutthat.
You know, and I think that'sthat's a testament to your skill
(31:16):
and to your writing, and Ithink that's that's awesome that
you can go for something grossand and disturbing and yet it
really resonates with readers.
You know.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Yeah, and I've, and people have asked me like, like
you said, like about you know,continuing and people actually
believe it or not want me towrite a book based off of this.
I've had more than a few peopleask me about it and I want to
do it.
But, like Jay said, it's justfor me, it's not just about
wanting to do something that'sonly gross or only gory.
I do want there to be somewhatof a story to.
(31:52):
It doesn't have to be anythingcrazy, you know what I mean.
It doesn't have to be the nextgreat American novel.
But that's why I said with mystory, why I it's kind of like I
want to have story and funstuff in there, along with the
gory and splatter and gross, andI'm going to do it eventually,
but it's I want to.
I want to have a story that'sworth doing.
(32:16):
That's the thing for me is thatI want to have a story that's
worth doing.
That's the thing for me is I'llgo to the crazy places and the
gross stuff, but I want to.
I want to have at least, likeyou know, kind of like a decent
story to tell with it to orotherwise.
It's just more the same.
You know there's I wantsomebody to know if they, if
they're reading my stuff.
I want them to know they're atleast.
(32:36):
You know, I took the effort totry to make like a really good
story and not not just gross orgory, but you know what there's.
But I want to just like stressI don't think there's anything
wrong with books that are likethat too, because I read a lot
of books that are just gross outstuff or just just wall to wall
gore.
It's fun, sometimes it's.
I don't want everything to belike like a very heavy book.
(32:59):
Sometimes I want that and thenother times, as a reader, I just
I'm just looking for some fun.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
So you know, I think I think horror has a place in
that.
Where it can?
You know, tim Wagner and I saton this for a while.
I wasn't sure how I felt aboutit, but a while there.
You know, tim, when we askedhim you know why horror?
He said because horror is fun.
You know he didn't want tobelieve he didn't.
He didn't agree with somepeople think.
You know, horror allows you tovisit these traumas, you know,
(33:26):
from a safe place, that sort ofthing.
Or allows you to reconcile withpast differences.
Or, you know, to approach yourfears in a safe way.
He didn't believe they was likeit's just fun, it's just fun,
it's fun to be scared.
And you know, I think there wasanother, there's another
additional on that.
You know which he didn't say,which was Horror is it is fun to
be afraid when it's safe.
(33:47):
You know like it's not fun whenyou're in a, you know, in a bad
spot, you know when in.
You know you've been in prisonand in prison garden and then me
being law enforcement.
There are times when you'rescared and it's not fun, I mean,
it's just the reality of it.
But then you go into a bookyou're like, okay, you know the
same type of escapism that weget from any other type of book.
(34:09):
It's just different and horror.
And that it's fear that we'regoing to be scared, it's fear
that we're playing with, notjust the escapism.
And so you know, I think that Ithink there is a, I think you
seem like you're the type whobelieves to that.
You know horror can be fun.
You know it's not just as yousaid.
So you know serious and, and youknow emotional and connective.
It's, sometimes it's just fun.
(34:30):
I mean, that's my mind, that'swhat Krampus is.
You turn.
I mean you turn Krampus into.
You know that's fun.
To horror.
You know it's Christmas horror.
I mean how, how terrifying andscary can it really be, you know
?
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Krampus is a perfect example.
There's nothing scary about it.
You know, those gingerbreadcookies, like coming down the
chimney, like it's not scary butit's fun and it, you know it's.
It's kind of like a modernChristmas classic.
Now it's not very old but Iwould say it's.
You know, if I'm going to pickhorror movies to watch every
season, you know Krampus isgoing to be one of those ones
(35:03):
that don't, that don't watchevery season, because it's fun.
And I think stuff like that isalso good because it's kind of
like it's it's.
It's like a gateway movie too.
You know you could, you couldget your kids into that.
They don't have to be and youdon't have to be worried about
what they might see in therebecause it's not, it's nothing
like too crazy, you know,provided they're not like you
know, five, I wouldn't show,like my five by four year old
(35:24):
Krampus.
But you know my 12 year old Iwould show Krampus.
It's not.
I don't think it's too bad fora 12 year old.
But yeah, you're right, I do, Ido.
I do think that horror is funand I think you hit that nail in
the head.
It's, it's.
It's fun because you can be ina safe space where you're doing
it.
You know, because being scaredis fun.
When you're scared in a safeway, like you said.
(35:45):
You know the driving like downthe road in Iraq and not knowing
if you're going about to runover a bomb that's not fun.
You can have fun with yourfriends, like you know the
conversations you're talkingabout and things like that.
You can have fun with eachother, but like that's, that's a
different kind of scary and Ithink horror books there, you
said.
They allow you to experience thefear and have fun doing it,
(36:08):
because you know that that bookis not going to hurt you.
At the end of the day, where'sshe going to get hurt from a
book You're going?
Speaker 1 (36:14):
to get paper cut.
Yeah, absolutely, hey, john.
So okay, now you're back.
You froze for a second there.
You got your, we got your audio.
So that's good.
Okay, but just to the folkslistening, let me reiterate John
is in a parking lot from, I'massuming, a Wi-Fi.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Yeah, actually.
So not even Wi-Fi is on myphone.
That is incredible the quality.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
The quality you were getting out of this.
Like people can't see it, butthe visual quality is absolutely
incredible for that connection.
So we'll we'll forgive theslight delays that we're
boasting to be having.
It's not a big deal at all.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
The the T-Mobile Tower is like I could.
If I had a strong arm, I couldprobably hit it with a rock.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
So that's probably what's doing it, but you have
absolutely a phenomenalconnection.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
So let's so.
We won't hold it against you.
Shout out the T-Mobile.
We are not sponsored.
However, if you want to sponsora T-Mobile, we would absolutely
love it.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Yeah, we'd love to see some return from this
podcast, but yeah, that'sawesome man and we like to say
it and we say it pretty often,at least every couple of shows
that, like horror writers aresome of the coolest people we
ever meet.
Yeah, you know, they're just,they're just average people,
(37:33):
normal people, who, who, whoenjoy a scary movie, who aren't,
you know, who aren't afraid toto read a scary book, who aren't
afraid to, you know, or who are, maybe who are afraid, but
they're okay with facing thatover and over again because
they're like you know what it's,it's fun, that's what it's
supposed to be.
You know, like there's certaintypes of fears that we're, like,
totally fine with and othertypes are like, no, I could
(37:54):
really do without.
You know, like when I'm, whenI'm on the streets, like there's
certain type of fear whensomeone's, like you know,
rummaging around in their carand I'm fixing to approach it
and I can't see their hands,like that's a different type of
fear I don't really want toapproach all the time.
Versus, you know, I pop open.
You know, friday the 13th, andI'm watching something.
You know, something happenthere, I mean on a movie, I
think.
I think there's different typesof fear and I think that's
(38:16):
really cool to see that.
Just another horror author.
That's just totally normal,just like the rest of us.
Now, jay said that you were inthe service.
What did you do in the military?
What branch?
Speaker 3 (38:27):
I was in the Marine Corps Um 2007 to 2011,.
I was a mortarman, so I was inthe infantry and then my MOS was
a mortarman.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Oh, during the invasion, cool, so I'm a rack,
or Afghanistan.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
I went to Iraq in 2008 and then I went to
Afghanistan in 2009.
So I've been to both.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Wow.
Well, I appreciate your serviceman.
I didn't get the opportunity todeploy.
I did four years in the Armyand that was the end of my
contract, so they didn't.
I was in a unit that wasn'tdeploying but I definitely
appreciated everyone who did andI mean I remember our unit.
There's a lot of our unit who'slike I'll re-up right now.
If you'll deploy me, can I signup for deployment Because
(39:08):
everyone else is going.
You know we all want to go andsupport and be a part of that
and you know you come back andyou're like.
You know at least I did what myjob was.
I did what the Army told me todo.
I did what the Marines told meto do.
You know, regardless if it wasgoing to, you know, but I do
have a level of appreciation forfolks who got to, got to, had
or had to experience that.
So thank you for that.
Thank you, when were you in theArmy?
(39:30):
2009 to 2012.
Okay, and, and I got out rightat the end of 2012.
I was medically discharged.
I got hurt.
So it's, you know.
I think I think there are someinfluences.
You know I wrote I didn'trealize how big mental health
was a part of my stories until Iwrote one that was like
(39:52):
strictly 100%.
nothing supernatural about it,just want mental health and
based off the stuff I'd seen,you know, in law enforcement and
you got to a point, like someof our readers were, like you
need to put some mental healthresources in the back, because
this is too intense, this is tooreal and I'm like that's what I
want.
Yes, and you know, you wantthat.
You, you want that connection,but at the same time you're like
(40:14):
oh, man like sorry, you know,but yeah, man, so that's, that's
really cool.
So you said you had someinfluences from PTSD and stuff
like that in in the warriorretreat.
I mean, it's in the title,right?
Yes, so that's.
And?
And how would you say?
You know, some people can'treally relate to PTSD, you know.
(40:36):
So how did you make it so thatpeople who may not have PTSD
could?
They don't understand.
You know what that was like.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
So what I tried to do is is, after we have, you know,
the the war stuff, at thebeginning I tried to give you a
little bit kind of almost likevignette chapters with each of
the main characters so you couldsee what they're doing after
the fact, now that they've comehome, and how they were dealing
with it in different ways.
Like, for some guys it was justkind of partying.
(41:06):
Still, you know, they're just,they haven't.
It's like they never leftHawaii.
They're just kind of like goingto like the strip clubs every
night.
And other guys are just, youknow, they're finding it in
medication and other guys aredealing with it in the bottom of
a bottle.
And then there's then there'sother guys who have kind of
battled those demons and andcame out the other side and now
(41:27):
they're trying to help people,you know, like a social worker
or things like that.
I just tried to show how eachguy was dealing with the after
effects of it and what it wasdoing, because everybody does,
you know, copes a different way.
You know, we all know peoplewho have been.
We're all of the age where weknow people who have been in the
military, or we know people whohave PTSD from other things,
(41:50):
and it's something thateverybody deals with in a
different way.
So it's sometimes it might belike it sounds like it's a
cliche, like you know they'rejust drinking because the things
bother them, but you know, butthat's how some people deal with
it.
And some people deal with itthrough drug abuse and some
people deal with it, just, youknow, by taking medications that
(42:12):
they get from theirprescriptions from their doctors
.
And other people just deal withit by not dealing with it and
they don't realize that it'sjust completely, you know,
destroying their physical andmental well-being because they
don't think that they have aproblem with anything and they
don't realize that they needhelp.
And then other people recognizeit and you know they're, and
they're able to go and get helpand kind of push past that, and
(42:35):
so it's different for everybody.
So I think that's why and Ithink you know now that we know
more about PTSD and we know thatit's not only something that
people in military or lawenforcement experience, it's
something that anybody canexperience.
You know, I could get into acar accident and that could be a
traumatic experience for me, if, if, if you know, depending on
(42:55):
what happened and what's all,that could be so traumatic.
I might never be able to drivein a car again, or I might not
want to drive on a highway again.
So I think that's why itresonates with people, is
because they see that it's not,it's not just.
You know, once they get pastthe more part of the story, that
they see a little bit ofthemselves and some of these
characters, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
And as someone who's read it, I absolutely like what
you said about the vignettes,about the characters.
That's exactly it.
You know, all of those littlesnapshots of the behind the
scenes of those particularcharacters drew me as a non
military individual that hasn'texperienced that, drew me right
into it and I could connect withthem right away.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
That's awesome, man.
So that's a great little homageto you know, to to your service
and to to those you recognize.
You know, I would say it'sprobably you know, influential,
you know you can, and peopleappreciate that for its
authenticity.
You know, and horror authors,we, we try to be as authentic as
we can, you know.
We try to write about thethings that scare us, you know,
(44:00):
and that that becomes a fearthat we could pass on to
somebody else, and so that thatseems like a great, a great
place to stop this.
You know, I know you're shorton time.
We definitely appreciate youcoming out for during your break
and and and making this happenwith us, and it's been an
absolute pleasure, man, so Iappreciate you guys having me.
Absolutely, we'll definitelyplan to do it again.
(44:22):
Like I said, this is season twoand there's not many horror
authors, so we try to have youknow.
We're trying to figure out, ormaybe a rotation, or just bring
the same guys on.
So, don't expect this to be thelast time we get ahold of you,
but before we go, can you tellpeople where you want people to
find your books?
Man, tell them where they cankeep up to date with you and
where you want them to go.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
Okay, yeah, so if you go to my website
johnlunchbookscom I said JohnLunch because I had talked with
John Lynch L-I-N-C-H bookscom Ifyou go there that's kind of
like the hub you could get to myonline shop from there, you
could get to my newsletter fromthere and then it will also link
you to like Amazon from there.
(44:59):
So if you like signed copies,you can get to signed copies
from there.
The best way to know everythingthat's going on kind of what my
writing would be is tosubscribe to the newsletter.
If you subscribe to mynewsletter, you know you can
have links to my socials fromthere.
You'll be able to get toeverything and everything that's
me from there or my website,and kind of find out what I'm up
to.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
That's awesome, man.
We appreciate you coming on, weappreciate your service and we
appreciate your time today.
So, Jay, do you got anythingelse man?
Speaker 2 (45:29):
No, just it was awesome to have you on here,
john.
I know we, you know we've beentalking a lot and we worked
pretty closely together on ourbook and it's awesome to finally
get you on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
That's good.
I'm glad to be here and I'mlooking forward to actually get
slaughtered late coming intomail.
So I'm going to read that one.
It should be here any day now,probably, and then I'm looking
forward to big fucking spidertoo.
I keep pounding Jay about it.
I'm like this book is going tocome out in time, right, because
I need this book.
I don't know.
I saw the cover and I was likethis sounds great.
It sounds like it sounds like afun, fun book.
(46:03):
So I'm really looking forwardto that.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Yeah, I think we'll make our deadline.
We're doing pretty good.
We set it far enough in advanceso that all the delaying that
we did it was okay yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
But I think I pre-order the day you put it up,
the day that I saw you wantthat, you want to pre-order is
like I'm getting that yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
And I've got people that, that message being said,
I'll buy anything but this.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
I don't do spiders and I'm like that's exactly why
you read.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
You need to read this .
But anyway, folks, so let's letme wrap it up here.
So this, ladies and gentlemen,you've been listening to the
Night Marriage and Podcasts,episode three of season two,
with our wonderful guess, whatwe so much appreciate, mr John
Lynch.
Thank you, folks, for your time.
John, thank you.
And Jay, you got anything elsefor us, man?
Speaker 2 (46:53):
No, we're good to go, man All right, Y'all folks have
a good night.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Nightmare Engine
podcast.
It is November 19th, so I'mgoing to give the data away.
This time we're looking atepisode number three of season
two.
I think that's right.
It's a cool show today.
It's a really cool show.
It's Sunday afternoon, it's,and it feels good to be on again
so quickly, without massivedelays, so we've got a full
(00:24):
stacked house today.
My co-host is quiet over there.
Jay Bauer, how are you?
I'm doing good, man.
How are you doing today?
Pretty good.
So what is on the choppingblock for you?
What do you got?
What do you got for me?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Oh, he froze up on us .
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Of the three of us, it was David.
Oh, I froze, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Oh, that's weird.
Oh, okay, let me ask again.
So what's on the chopping blockfor you?
What do you?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
got Just working on a couple new projects Working on
our project Big Fricking Spider,and also working on an iBiter
story which kind of ties in alittle bit with our guest today.
But yeah, just working on thatand getting my new, my little
(01:10):
Christmas chat book out in thewild.
It's been pretty cool to seethe reaction to that too.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
That's awesome, and so that iBiter story that is
from your conservators'collective story, that three way
written right.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I wouldn't say three way, but yeah, it's the book
that I wrote with John Lynch andJohn Durgan.
We each have three brand newnovellas, kind of based on a
certain theme, and this, thetheme of this one, was derelict
and we all kind of took it inour own direction and really
enjoyed my character and I had alot of super positive feedback
(01:50):
and I was like you know what,let's do more.
And so I'm working on doing one, maybe two, maybe even three
books.
It depends on how this allshakes out.
But yeah, you enjoyed thethreesome.
Yeah, it was a lot of fun.
It was John, john and Jay.
I mean.
You know why not?
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, so we.
At this point, it would be.
I would be remiss if I didn'tintroduce our guest here.
So anyways, I don't know, jaygave it away, but we've got Mr
John Lynch on the side.
How are you, sir?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I'm doing good.
How are you guys doing?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
Good, good man, good.
So your folks can't see it, butyou're calling in from your
vehicle outside of work.
Yes, where is that?
What side of the country areyou in?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
I'm on the East Coast , I'm in Rhode Island.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Rhode Island that's a state.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
Yes, Very small one.
I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Between Massachusetts and Connecticut.
And so what are you doing for aliving man?
Speaker 3 (02:56):
I work at a prison.
It's my day job, and thenwriting is my hobby.
Hopefully one day I can make ita living, but right now it's
just kind of like something I'mdoing and I really enjoy doing
it.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
But I didn't know they let you have electronics
and laptops in prison.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
No, they don't.
I keep it in my car, oh okay.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, no, no yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
This can't go in there.
I'm all done.
If I go to America, I leave itall in my car and then I just
come on break.
You know, I grab it and I writeon my break.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Oh, that's cool.
So how long, how long, you beenin prison?
Business, corrections,corrections, business.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
I mean corrections.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
For about 10 years.
Oh, my 11th year.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
This is actually my 11th year now Same prison, or a
couple of different ones, orsame prison.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, the same one, yep.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
That's awesome.
So do you have?
I mean, I assume you'veestablished some relationships
with the people that you are incharge of there.
I mean, you've seen a lot ofthe same folks.
You know people aren't goinganywhere.
It's not like county jail,right, so it's people who have
extended sentences.
I mean, do you feel like you'vemaybe established some
relationships with them?
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yeah, it's, um, I'm in a medium security prison, so
their sentence guys here, um,everybody that's here sentenced,
you know, and it could beanything from.
It could be anything from undera year to life, depending on
the circumstances and stuff likethat.
It just really kind of dependson the depends on what they've
got going on and how there are,but there's, you know, there's
(04:30):
people that you see once and younever see them again, and if
they're doing a short time, andthen there's guys who it's kind
of sometimes it's like arevolving door, you know just
kind of prison goes.
Some guys come go once and theynever come back, and other guys
it's kind of a all the timething with them.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Yeah and um, and so you said you've got some time to
write.
Um, I guess on break you comeout to the car and get some
words in, or something.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Yeah, because, um, I usually end up work on the days
that I work I usually pulldoubles, Um, so I don't.
So by the time I get home I'mburnt out.
So I leave my, um, all mywriting stuff I just leave in my
car and then, you know, I go onbreak.
I'm, I go on break, I sit inthe car and I have a.
You can't see, you can't see itright now in the video, but I
have one of those littlesteering wheel Um, oh, yeah,
(05:17):
tests, you know the little trainthat attaches to your steering
wheel and my laptop's propped upon that, and that's, that's how
I write.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
You don't look like a writer.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah, I know, I don't .
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Is there a look?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
I didn't realize there was a look, I know, but
put 1800, put 1800 of themtogether like we went to 20
books.
I just got back from 20 books.
Uh, vegas put 1800 of themtogether and there there there
is a general look, I think, forwriters.
So yeah, I don't know untilthat.
Look Well, that's awesome man.
So, um, if it's no surprise toanybody listening, I mean we
(05:55):
tend to interview horror authorsor those who align themselves
strictly in horror.
Um, we, if people tell us thatit has horror elements and we
don't really think that that'swhat we're looking for.
So, um, you write horror.
What was your?
What was your first?
What was it?
The warrior retreat.
I think that's right.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Yes, um, the warrior retreat was my first release.
I actually had finished myshort story collection prior to
releasing that Um, but I hadtalked to a lot of authors and
publishers and most of them hadtold me um, you know,
collections don't typically dowell, you're better off sitting
on that until you get a book outthere so people can know you
(06:32):
first.
So I had it finished, I had acover, it was almost ready to go
pretty much, and then I decidedto write the warrior retreat,
um, and that was something I hadbeen writing for like two years
.
Um, the first draft of it washorrible.
I mean, first drafts are alwaysbad.
But I look, I look back at thisthing and like there were three
chapter threes back to back andthe story was like all over the
place and it was likecompletely different than it is
(06:53):
now.
Um, and I talked to the sidejust to work on short stories
and other things and kind ofjust learn like the craft of
writing.
Um, because I had startedwriting, I tried it a couple of
times, you know, like a decadeago, and I just got a couple of
rejections and I was like, well,I guess I'm not a writer.
And then I started reallygetting into like the car and
(07:14):
seeing how many people werewriters, I was like, well, why
not, you know, if I keep gettingbetter, if I keep trying?
And then I started to pick up alittle traction with short
stories and then I realized, youknow, like you know, I can do
this as long as I keep learningand improving.
Um, and that's kind of how thewarrior retreat came about, and
so, yeah, so yeah, there's oneroundabout way of saying yeah,
(07:35):
the warrior retreat was my debut.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah, you know, that's awesome To hear you say
about um.
You know your first draft andhow it came about, because you
know I've been behind the sceneswith you since like April,
something like May, somethinglike that, you know, and kind of
seeing how your process goeswith our book that we did.
And you know hearing um, youknow hearing what you say about,
(07:58):
you know your drafts and thingslike that.
You know we see all that stuffand and um, hearing what you say
about that, I could absolutelysee you saying like this sucked
and I had three firsts, you knowthree chapters.
Um, because I, you know, we've,we've been through all of this,
which is kind of a cool.
But you know, that was my introto you was the warrior retreat,
and I've read everything thatyou've written so far, um,
(08:22):
almost except for the one yearyou're currently working on.
But um, and I've loved everybit of it.
You know, and I know you've gotI had a lot of military themes
to it, which I'm not military,you know, but I absolutely
relate to the story, absolutelyrelate to your characters and
you brought so much life to them.
You know, because of um,because of your experience and
(08:45):
it, it goes beyond just military.
Right, you know you, I knowyou've got some amazing fans
that um aren't military, thatwill, will, uh, promote your
stuff to the ends of the earth.
You know, I know you've gotsome huge, huge fans, which is
great.
You know, and just kind ofhearing all this backstory is
kind of cool yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Um, I'm sorry, Go ahead, go ahead.
Yeah, I was going to say yeah,my, um, my readers are great
because you know it's, you know,I'm sorry, I think the warrior
retreats a hard.
It's a hard pitch for me.
It's not hard for readers topitch it because they pick up on
the stuff that they really likeabout it, you know, and they'll
sell that to other readers bydoing it.
But for me it's a hard pitchbecause I'm thinking about it.
(09:27):
Well, it's like it's part waraction novel, part like PTSD
exploration, part slasher.
And if you don't like extreme,it's not extreme hard, but if
you don't like extreme hard,you're probably not going to
like it.
Just because my writing styleis, you know, I will get graphic
and violent and explicit.
It's not wall to wall.
(09:48):
You know cover to cover that.
But if you don't like thosethings in your books, then
you're not going to write it.
I mean, enjoy it.
But my readers, you know, thoseare the ones who, like we'll
talk to you about how theypicked up on the PTSD and they
can relate with it, even if itwasn't like their PTSD is not
war related, just to thefeelings of it and things like
that.
So you know, my readers aregreat and they're always helping
(10:10):
me promote where I'm not doinga very good job at it, they're
doing a great job at it.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, I think horror is very unique and it
immediately gives you grounds toconnect to a reader versus
other genres which kind of haveto force it through the
characters.
So by just labeling your bookhorror, you have made that
connection immediately with themand you can tell them exactly
what they should experiencethrough the book.
I mean, that's the same thingwith romance.
(10:39):
So romance of close cousin tohorror, because of that is, you
know, the genre, is the emotion,which is really just kind of
cool.
It's also very difficult.
I think readers have a higherexpectation of what to present
to them.
I think a lot of readers aregetting used to the idea that
there are no jump scares inhorror books.
You can't make something popout of them and so, you know,
maybe they become.
I thought at first it wouldbecome a little disappointed
(11:00):
when they read a horror book andthey're like I'm not scared.
Well then I think then I don'tknow what to say in that regard,
because it's like what might beincredibly terrifying to
somebody may not be, to somebodyelse it's so, it's so unique,
so, depending what broad strokescan be useful in that, in that
regard.
But a lot of times too, it'slike, hey, I wasn't really
(11:21):
scared during this one.
It's like, well, how did itmake you feel?
You know it's being scared andbeing forced to feel something
from horror, I think, is wherethings get a little bit, you
know, a little bit more unique.
I guess you could say I don'tknow, I don't know if you've
experienced that.
I know one of my first books.
I tried to write a jump scareinto a book and I was like this
(11:43):
didn't work.
You know, it's like and thenthis big scary thing.
I just kind of felt like I wasdeflated.
I was like, oh, I've right,here's the big scary thing.
Now, what you know, it's likewhat are we going to do?
It's like, what am I left with?
I'm left with an action scene,pretty much a survival scene or
something like that, or survival.
For the rest of the book.
There's scary things there.
So I mean, when you weretalking about your types of
horror that you write, you knowyou say it's part slash or part
(12:05):
adventure.
I mean, would you say it fallsin the psychological aspect,
would you say it falls into thesupernatural, like where do you
think you fall?
Speaker 3 (12:12):
in line yeah, so the warrior retreat is definitely
it's more, it's morepsychological because it's kind
of, without giving it away, it'sexactly what's going on.
It's kind of like Chris Kyletype of thing, the American
sniper.
So it's definitely it's notsupernatural, it's real, it's
(12:34):
something that could happen.
And I kind of feel like thesame way with with you do about
the jumpscares, because oncethere's a reveal, there's a
reveal.
You know you can't, you can'treveal that.
And I ran into the same thingwhen I was like, Well, once this
first kill happens, you know Ican't.
There's not really a way for meto drag this on for another 100
(12:56):
pages and have this.
You know, this terrible thing.
It's kind of it's got to go Now.
It's going to go balls to thewall for you know the last 40 or
so pages, because I've alreadyhad all this lead up to this and
you know we're ready to go now.
I can't just keep trying to havea guy pop out of nowhere and it
kind of really didn't fit.
You know, it didn't make sense.
(13:16):
Plus, like you said, it just itkind of didn't work.
It's, it's you, probably.
I mean, I'm sure somebody'sdone a jump scare a good way in
a horror book, but it's probably, you know it's not hard, it's
not easy, I mean it's you reallycan't jump scares more of a
visual, visual thing andauditory thing.
So I can, I can make thingsdescribed well and put you in a
(13:37):
setting, but I can't, you know,I can't actually make auditory
noises that are going to usuallybe associated with something
like a jump scare.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Yeah, and I know Jay and I were kind of discussing
about our latest book, bigFucking Spider, which is kind of
a really clever title.
I don't think people understandwhat's going to be about about
you know when, when do we showthe big, the big spider?
You know?
Because it's?
I mean, that's the whole pointof the book and we've kind of
(14:10):
talked about it a little bit andsaid you know what it?
Maybe it needs to be on thenose, maybe it needs to be right
there in front of us the wholetime and it just becomes one of
those survival type stories, notnecessarily like grab a
flamethrower, run around youknow, less, less eight legged
freaks, more arachnophobia, ifthat makes sense.
Yes, if you're going to compareit to movies, which I don't
think it's a good, but those twomovies are, I mean, they stand
(14:31):
on two different lines of horror, I think, and it's kind of fun
to think about.
And so, where you retreat, jaysaid you got something else
besides the conservatorsderelict that you're working on
right now.
What, what, what book is that?
Okay so if you can talk about it.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
I can talk a little bit about it.
I haven't done a cover revealand I haven't named it or
anybody, but it will say it is aChristmas horror book.
I will say that and it's kindof it's just me having fun with
kind of like a.
It's like a slasher, you know,but it's like I would say it's
(15:10):
more.
Again, it's not extreme hard,but if you don't, if you don't
care for that stuff, you're notgoing to like it.
It's more of like a gory 8090s,8080s, early 90s kind of cheesy
slasher.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
I believe we described yesterday is a
Hallmark Christmas classic.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Yeah, it's going to go right there, right there on
your shelves, with all the youknow, the elf on the shelf book
that you read your kid everyChristmas.
It's going to be right therealong to it.
But yeah, that one is.
So it's almost finished it's.
I plan on doing like thepre-orders the very beginning of
December, because I do.
I know that Releasing aChristmas book without promotion
(15:53):
is I'm almost sending it out todie basically.
So I have to hit really hard onthe pre-orders and I think you
know very early December to givethat lead up, especially
because it's not coming outuntil the end of the month, like
December 22nd.
So I'm barely gonna hitChristmas.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, this would be a great get.
It sound like to me.
You just need to have it aspart of a stocking stuffer for
children under 10.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Yeah, yeah, you man, you would get a lot of great
reviews on that, oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
I'll select the age.
You know the children's age onKDP when I upload it.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, so we?
This reminds me of when ourwriting group so we've been Jane
, I've been part of the samewriting group for about probably
going on four years now and wewere joking because it's romance
author she just like, out ofnowhere, published her first
book and made like six figureson one book, just just threw it
out into the ether and madestupid money off of it.
(16:51):
And I looked at Jay and I waslike I guess you're writing
romance now, dude, and we'rejust gonna call it, we're gonna
write it, we're gonna call itwritten by five guys.
And so that was gonna Answerlike yeah, this is gonna go over
.
Really, really well, we knowit's gonna turn and we know we
didn't know anything about it,about writing romance.
But it's like when you'restarting to see numbers like
that, we're like, okay, maybe,maybe I need to.
(17:12):
You know, maybe there's a pointto this.
But Taking that little box thatsays, you know, written for
children, it's the same thing asus saying like, written by five
dudes, yes, this is exactly,this is exactly what these
romance readers want.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah, I've seen like I'm in groups like the 20 books
to 50k and wide for the win andstuff like that, because I like
to try and Learn about thebusiness from other authors as
much as I can Because I do know,like I've seen, I've seen like
Andrew Van way Show businessstuff where he was showing, like
you know, the breakdown ofspending.
(17:47):
My genre and horror was likethe lowest and the next lowest,
I think was like sci-fi and thatlike is like double the revenue
of horror books yearly.
So I try to learn the businessas much as I can to set myself
up for it.
And yeah, when I see that aboutthe romance and I see authors
being talking about like theyhave like 10,000 pre-orders or
(18:08):
like or 5,000 pre-orders ontheir Book and it's not even
like it's the first book they'veever written.
They don't have any shortstories out and I'm like how did
you even find 10,000 people tolike To take that jump and
pre-order your book when youdon't have a word written and
you have like somehow they havea newsletter with like 50,000
subscribers and it's like Idon't know, I don't understand
(18:29):
how they.
I know I wish I knew how theywere doing it.
But you know, horror is just adifferent beast, I guess it's.
There are a lot of people whowhat kind of pioneered, like
being on ebooks and stuff likethat for a while, but I don't
think the readership has caughton To be as big yet.
It's still kind of a nichegenre.
You know us being horrorauthors and horror readers, we
(18:51):
don't see it as a niche genrebut in comparison to other, to
other readerships, you knowthere's just not as many readers
out there yet.
But I think that's changingwith groups of like book, of
books, of horror on Facebook andtick tock.
I think it's bringing in a lotof people into horror readership
.
That we haven't and I do thinkthat it's gonna start catching
(19:11):
on Sooner rather than later, asfar as you know how many people
are reading it.
It's just a matter of time.
It's.
I think people have just longneglected the horror genre.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Yeah, and I see that you know you're setting yourself
up for that eventual success.
Right, you know for when, whenthose folks start coming to us,
you know start looking at horror, and you know you building that
foundation, building it theright way.
Right, you know putting outquality books, quality stories,
Making those connections withother authors, with the readers.
(19:47):
You know building those thingsup and and.
So when that time comes, whenyou know when they start coming
this way, you know they're likeoh yeah, John Lynch, like yeah,
he's.
You know definitely read hisstuff.
You know he's got great work,you know he's super nice guy,
all that stuff You're justbuilding on the right things and
that's all you know.
That's all you can do.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
You know, and and I've been seeing you doing that
Kind of pretty much every stepof this way- you know, one of
the things that we talked to,one of the other Kind of big
names in the horror community.
So we talked to both Tim Wagnerand we talked to Jonathan
Mayberry, and Both of them comefrom a traditional side but they
(20:27):
do a little bit on their ownkind of indie style, I guess you
could say.
I guess that's what that meansis roll out, you know, having to
be self-sufficient and doing alot of the legwork yourself to
promote your books and stuff sothey can commiserate to a point
with it.
And one of the things that theysaid was horrors making
resurgence.
It's coming back, it's seeingit's being both desired in the
trad industry as well as it isin the independent industry.
(20:49):
And and horror has longsurvived on the independent side
, both in the small press and anindependent horror authors, for
a very, very long time becausethey could not find a place in
the mainstream.
And what we are experiencing isa is a real.
Is a real is theserelationships with readers,
horror readers, that they arejust Waiting for the next book.
(21:10):
They're just.
They just their issues alwaysbeen discovering it.
It's never been do I buy it.
It's always been discovering it.
And so one of the things thatI've, you know, really focused
on the last few years is justmaking myself more available.
That's why we started thispodcast was just so we could
have that more connection withother horror readers and be like
, look, we're here, we, we wantyou to read our stuff.
(21:32):
We write good stuff, I thinkyou know, we think you'd enjoy
it and we'll write the stuffthat you want.
If you communicate with us,tell us what you want, we'll
write, we'll give you exactlywhat you're looking for, you
know?
Yep, so I know that some folkslike to.
There's some folks that arekind of naysayers about you know
.
There are this horse, thesmallest market and and whatnot
is like.
Well, there's an article calleda thousand true fans and, to be
(21:53):
honest, that's that's all youneed.
A thousand people out of thisentire world.
And it's not difficult when youstart looking at those types of
numbers.
You know, one of the things thatI've experienced is that I
don't get a whole lot of lovefrom Amazon for my books ever.
They don't ever show my booksto anybody.
I don't get anythingorganically through Amazon.
So I tell everybody said, go tomy website.
You know, if I, if I'm gonna,if, if I, if Amazon's not gonna
(22:14):
help me, then I I'm not gonnafeed Amazon, I'll feed, I'll
feed myself, and so what readersare starting to be more
interested in is buying directlyfrom the authors that they like
, and so the connections withhorror readers Are very tight.
They want paperbacks, they wantsigned paperbacks, they love
them, they collect them.
I mean, I saw this girl.
She had a coffin shaped Ibookshelf was the coolest thing
(22:37):
in the world.
I was like I'm not a, I'm not a, you know, I'm not like any
kind of devil worship oranything like that, but I'm like
a coffin shaped bookshelf.
That's so cool.
Like you know, if I could getaway with painting my house dark
black on the inside, I would,but I'm not really, you know.
This just makes the housereally dark.
So, but I like the idea of kindof like a Gothic, you know
style house that just horrorimages will like that, though,
(22:59):
and I don't know if yourexperience has been the same way
, but they're just when you meetthem, they're die hard, and
they love to connect with us.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Yeah, that's been my experience.
So I mean, as you guys bothknow, I've only just been
published.
You know, a novel for thewarrior treat is a little bit
over a year old.
It came out on Veterans Daylast year.
But I went to author con andthat was part of the reason why
I put my collection out so fastis because I wanted to have at
(23:30):
least two books out before Iwent to author con and I got a
table and it was dude, it wascrazy.
There's readers there withgigantic like trays, like pull
trays, like something you wouldsee in an airport, somebody
pulling their luggage juststacked with books and books and
books.
And I heard readers telling melike they came over with just
like vacuum sealed bags fortheir clothes so that they could
(23:52):
bring all their books back intheir luggage and stuff and they
just like shipped the clothesback or they were.
Some people were saying theyspent tons of money like
shipping their books back.
And yeah, they're great there's.
The readers are out there, it'sjust a matter of finding them.
Discoverability, anddiscoverability is getting
easier and easier by the daywith places like the like.
(24:15):
I bring it up again the books ofhorror group on Facebook the
last time I looked there waslike 40,000, 43,000 people in
that group.
That's a lot of people justwaiting to read horror book and
even a lot of times still, youknow, everybody's just
discovering like, oh, it's notjust Stephen King, it's not just
Joe Hill and Dean Coots andAnne Rice, there's all these
(24:36):
authors out here and they'retelling their friends about it
and their friends are joiningthe groups and telling other
readers about it.
And it's just discoverabilityis getting easier and easier.
It's just, you know, makingyourself available.
We do because we still are, youknow, into your, whether
self-published or small press,you have to make yourself
(24:57):
available and put yourself outthere to find readers, because
you know the publisher usuallycan't do that for you, either
won't or can't, just because ofthe nature of promotion and what
it costs.
So you know there's a lot ofreaders out there and, like you
said the article about, you knowa thousand will do you.
(25:17):
If you get a thousand peoplewho want to read every one of
your books, man, that's a lot ofpeople buying your books.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I've got like 10, so I'm on my way.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah, we've mentioned short stories a lot here and so
one of the things I set outthis year was I wanted to write
a short story a month.
And so I have a subscriptionwhere my readers get to kind of
vote and stuff and I write ashort story a month.
It kind of forces me to write ashort story a month.
I figured I could dedicatemyself to that and you know,
over the course of the nextthree years it starts to add up.
(25:53):
You know of how many shortstories you really you start
getting really good at them.
I think horror short stories is.
You know that's really big andhard.
You know you gotta publish yourown collection.
I mean, if you're a horrorwriter, you gotta publish your
own collection.
At some point you gotta write avampire of some sort and you
gotta write a zombie of somesort.
I mean, that's just write apassage, right.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
And so you got your first collection.
Did you publish that already,or are you still working on it?
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yeah, so I published that.
I published it like two monthsafter the Warrior Treaty, which
was kind of like that was a badidea too, because it was so soon
after the Warrior Treaty, likepeople hadn't even started
finding that yet, and I hadalready had the second book come
out.
But, like I had said, I didthat specifically because I felt
(26:37):
I needed to have at least twobooks out before AuthorCon last
year.
Otherwise I'm just kind of likewasting money on a table and
not really giving readersoptions so and so well.
Sorry.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
No, no, go ahead.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Sorry, that came out.
I believe it was like Januaryof 2020.
Yeah, January of this year, Ireally used that.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
And so I was gonna say AuthorCon is where you and I
kind of really met.
Originally you were in the very, very back room with Ronald
Kelly, lucas Miller and a fewothers, just like but way back
there.
And then eventually you gotmoved out and you were kind of
just like right outside the doorfrom where I was at and I know
(27:24):
we talked a lot that weekend.
But it was cool to see thereaders that were getting your
stuff that were like oh yeah,I'm familiar with this Cause.
That's an awesome feeling.
I saw it, I saw it happen withyou quite a bit, which is really
exciting.
And I understand why you wouldwant to get that collection.
I would have done the samething, man, like I absolutely
(27:46):
would have done that.
And, as we all three know,short story collections often
aren't the biggest sellers forhorror authors.
But it is kind of a rite ofpassage in horror.
It's like you have to have acollection, so it.
But it is good and I have readit and I loved it.
And from your feedback, fromyour readers, what story of that
(28:10):
is the one that they bring upthe most?
I think I know, and that's whyyou're smiling.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
One that everybody brings up the most is a cock
meat sandwich.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
So cock meat sandwich .
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Okay, let me.
Let me just make sure I getthat with my clear mic Cock meat
sandwich.
That is the title of the story.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yes it is.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Yes, that's the title of the story and, believe it or
not, that is usually the onethat people liked it the most.
I wrote that one originally forDNT's ABCs of Terror, volume 4.
And the idea was that the themebehind it was like lousy
neighbors and then you each geta letter.
(28:52):
So that's where the ABCs ofTerror came in, because each
author got randomly assigned aletter or you could choose it.
If you were fast enough, youcould, you know, state claim on
a letter.
And originally the story wastitled because I had always
wanted to call it cockmeatsandwich and like I pitched it
like the first paragraph of it.
It was my first time trying towrite something that was like
(29:14):
kind of gross or extreme, so Iwanted to just see if I could do
it and it used.
It was originally publishedunder G is for Gary Gilroy,
because every title was like Ais for this, b is for that and
mine was G is for Gary Gilroy,but in my head the title was
always cockmeat sandwich.
So when I republished it it hadto go under that one.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
And what's the story about?
The story about me.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
About a man who was by himself.
His wife and kids are gone,he's by himself and he's just
got this awful, awful, terribleneighbor.
They're always loud.
The place is like, you know,the neighbor's yard is like a
junk yard.
There's like animal shit on theyard, the grass is like waist
high because he doesn't mow itand it's just kind of like a not
(30:05):
not quite, but the closestthing will be, if you think of
like hillbilly horror type thingand the neighbor and you know
he goes over there and they getinto it a little bit and the
neighbor is just being gross.
And then you know he wakes upone day and he's washing,
washing dishes and over hiskitchen sink and he looks out
the window and the neighbor isbarbecuing his own penis and
(30:27):
then it just goes and then it'skind of like a home invasion
thing from there.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
But you know, and I think the reason why a story
like that has resonated withyour readers, you know, other
than you've got this fantastictitle for it right.
It's just it is.
It's a disturbing thing, likeyou know, having read that, you
know it's.
You have these disturbingvisuals that you just like you,
can't get rid of.
You know, and it's like, andthat that sits with readers, and
(30:55):
the way you write it, you know,with your style and the flow
you're writing and justeverything, it takes something
that's called cockmeat sandwichbut it turns it into something
that's super entertaining,something that lasts with the
readers and something that theywant more of.
And I know we've talked aboutthat.
You know, and I think that'sthat's a testament to your skill
(31:16):
and to your writing, and Ithink that's that's awesome that
you can go for something grossand and disturbing and yet it
really resonates with readers.
You know.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
Yeah, and I've, and people have asked me like, like
you said, like about you know,continuing and people actually
believe it or not want me towrite a book based off of this.
I've had more than a few peopleask me about it and I want to
do it.
But, like Jay said, it's justfor me, it's not just about
wanting to do something that'sonly gross or only gory.
I do want there to be somewhatof a story to.
(31:52):
It doesn't have to be anythingcrazy, you know what I mean.
It doesn't have to be the nextgreat American novel.
But that's why I said with mystory, why I it's kind of like I
want to have story and funstuff in there, along with the
gory and splatter and gross, andI'm going to do it eventually,
but it's I want to.
I want to have a story that'sworth doing.
(32:16):
That's the thing for me is thatI want to have a story that's
worth doing.
That's the thing for me is I'llgo to the crazy places and the
gross stuff, but I want to.
I want to have at least, likeyou know, kind of like a decent
story to tell with it to orotherwise.
It's just more the same.
You know there's I wantsomebody to know if they, if
they're reading my stuff.
I want them to know they're atleast.
(32:36):
You know, I took the effort totry to make like a really good
story and not not just gross orgory, but you know what there's.
But I want to just like stressI don't think there's anything
wrong with books that are likethat too, because I read a lot
of books that are just gross outstuff or just just wall to wall
gore.
It's fun, sometimes it's.
I don't want everything to belike like a very heavy book.
(32:59):
Sometimes I want that and thenother times, as a reader, I just
I'm just looking for some fun.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
So you know, I think I think horror has a place in
that.
Where it can?
You know, tim Wagner and I saton this for a while.
I wasn't sure how I felt aboutit, but a while there.
You know, tim, when we askedhim you know why horror?
He said because horror is fun.
You know he didn't want tobelieve he didn't.
He didn't agree with somepeople think.
You know, horror allows you tovisit these traumas, you know,
(33:26):
from a safe place, that sort ofthing.
Or allows you to reconcile withpast differences.
Or, you know, to approach yourfears in a safe way.
He didn't believe they was likeit's just fun, it's just fun,
it's fun to be scared.
And you know, I think there wasanother, there's another
additional on that.
You know which he didn't say,which was Horror is it is fun to
be afraid when it's safe.
(33:47):
You know like it's not fun whenyou're in a, you know, in a bad
spot, you know when in.
You know you've been in prisonand in prison garden and then me
being law enforcement.
There are times when you'rescared and it's not fun, I mean,
it's just the reality of it.
But then you go into a bookyou're like, okay, you know the
same type of escapism that weget from any other type of book.
(34:09):
It's just different and horror.
And that it's fear that we'regoing to be scared, it's fear
that we're playing with, notjust the escapism.
And so you know, I think that Ithink there is a, I think you
seem like you're the type whobelieves to that.
You know horror can be fun.
You know it's not just as yousaid.
So you know serious and, and youknow emotional and connective.
It's, sometimes it's just fun.
(34:30):
I mean, that's my mind, that'swhat Krampus is.
You turn.
I mean you turn Krampus into.
You know that's fun.
To horror.
You know it's Christmas horror.
I mean how, how terrifying andscary can it really be, you know
?
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Krampus is a perfect example.
There's nothing scary about it.
You know, those gingerbreadcookies, like coming down the
chimney, like it's not scary butit's fun and it, you know it's.
It's kind of like a modernChristmas classic.
Now it's not very old but Iwould say it's.
You know, if I'm going to pickhorror movies to watch every
season, you know Krampus isgoing to be one of those ones
(35:03):
that don't, that don't watchevery season, because it's fun.
And I think stuff like that isalso good because it's kind of
like it's it's.
It's like a gateway movie too.
You know you could, you couldget your kids into that.
They don't have to be and youdon't have to be worried about
what they might see in therebecause it's not, it's nothing
like too crazy, you know,provided they're not like you
know, five, I wouldn't show,like my five by four year old
(35:24):
Krampus.
But you know my 12 year old Iwould show Krampus.
It's not.
I don't think it's too bad fora 12 year old.
But yeah, you're right, I do, Ido.
I do think that horror is funand I think you hit that nail in
the head.
It's, it's.
It's fun because you can be ina safe space where you're doing
it.
You know, because being scaredis fun.
When you're scared in a safeway, like you said.
(35:45):
You know the driving like downthe road in Iraq and not knowing
if you're going about to runover a bomb that's not fun.
You can have fun with yourfriends, like you know the
conversations you're talkingabout and things like that.
You can have fun with eachother, but like that's, that's a
different kind of scary and Ithink horror books there, you
said.
They allow you to experience thefear and have fun doing it,
(36:08):
because you know that that bookis not going to hurt you.
At the end of the day, where'sshe going to get hurt from a
book You're going?
Speaker 1 (36:14):
to get paper cut.
Yeah, absolutely, hey, john.
So okay, now you're back.
You froze for a second there.
You got your, we got your audio.
So that's good.
Okay, but just to the folkslistening, let me reiterate John
is in a parking lot from, I'massuming, a Wi-Fi.
Speaker 3 (36:31):
Yeah, actually.
So not even Wi-Fi is on myphone.
That is incredible the quality.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
The quality you were getting out of this.
Like people can't see it, butthe visual quality is absolutely
incredible for that connection.
So we'll we'll forgive theslight delays that we're
boasting to be having.
It's not a big deal at all.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
The the T-Mobile Tower is like I could.
If I had a strong arm, I couldprobably hit it with a rock.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
So that's probably what's doing it, but you have
absolutely a phenomenalconnection.
Speaker 2 (37:04):
So let's so.
We won't hold it against you.
Shout out the T-Mobile.
We are not sponsored.
However, if you want to sponsora T-Mobile, we would absolutely
love it.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Yeah, we'd love to see some return from this
podcast, but yeah, that'sawesome man and we like to say
it and we say it pretty often,at least every couple of shows
that, like horror writers aresome of the coolest people we
ever meet.
Yeah, you know, they're just,they're just average people,
(37:33):
normal people, who, who, whoenjoy a scary movie, who aren't,
you know, who aren't afraid toto read a scary book, who aren't
afraid to, you know, or who are, maybe who are afraid, but
they're okay with facing thatover and over again because
they're like you know what it's,it's fun, that's what it's
supposed to be.
You know, like there's certaintypes of fears that we're, like,
totally fine with and othertypes are like, no, I could
(37:54):
really do without.
You know, like when I'm, whenI'm on the streets, like there's
certain type of fear whensomeone's, like you know,
rummaging around in their carand I'm fixing to approach it
and I can't see their hands,like that's a different type of
fear I don't really want toapproach all the time.
Versus, you know, I pop open.
You know, friday the 13th, andI'm watching something.
You know, something happenthere, I mean on a movie, I
think.
I think there's different typesof fear and I think that's
(38:16):
really cool to see that.
Just another horror author.
That's just totally normal,just like the rest of us.
Now, jay said that you were inthe service.
What did you do in the military?
What branch?
Speaker 3 (38:27):
I was in the Marine Corps Um 2007 to 2011,.
I was a mortarman, so I was inthe infantry and then my MOS was
a mortarman.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
Oh, during the invasion, cool, so I'm a rack,
or Afghanistan.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
I went to Iraq in 2008 and then I went to
Afghanistan in 2009.
So I've been to both.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Wow.
Well, I appreciate your serviceman.
I didn't get the opportunity todeploy.
I did four years in the Armyand that was the end of my
contract, so they didn't.
I was in a unit that wasn'tdeploying but I definitely
appreciated everyone who did andI mean I remember our unit.
There's a lot of our unit who'slike I'll re-up right now.
If you'll deploy me, can I signup for deployment Because
(39:08):
everyone else is going.
You know we all want to go andsupport and be a part of that
and you know you come back andyou're like.
You know at least I did what myjob was.
I did what the Army told me todo.
I did what the Marines told meto do.
You know, regardless if it wasgoing to, you know, but I do
have a level of appreciation forfolks who got to, got to, had
or had to experience that.
So thank you for that.
Thank you, when were you in theArmy?
(39:30):
2009 to 2012.
Okay, and, and I got out rightat the end of 2012.
I was medically discharged.
I got hurt.
So it's, you know.
I think I think there are someinfluences.
You know I wrote I didn'trealize how big mental health
was a part of my stories until Iwrote one that was like
(39:52):
strictly 100%.
nothing supernatural about it,just want mental health and
based off the stuff I'd seen,you know, in law enforcement and
you got to a point, like someof our readers were, like you
need to put some mental healthresources in the back, because
this is too intense, this is tooreal and I'm like that's what I
want.
Yes, and you know, you wantthat.
You, you want that connection,but at the same time you're like
(40:14):
oh, man like sorry, you know,but yeah, man, so that's, that's
really cool.
So you said you had someinfluences from PTSD and stuff
like that in in the warriorretreat.
I mean, it's in the title,right?
Yes, so that's.
And?
And how would you say?
You know, some people can'treally relate to PTSD, you know.
(40:36):
So how did you make it so thatpeople who may not have PTSD
could?
They don't understand.
You know what that was like.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
So what I tried to do is is, after we have, you know,
the the war stuff, at thebeginning I tried to give you a
little bit kind of almost likevignette chapters with each of
the main characters so you couldsee what they're doing after
the fact, now that they've comehome, and how they were dealing
with it in different ways.
Like, for some guys it was justkind of partying.
(41:06):
Still, you know, they're just,they haven't.
It's like they never leftHawaii.
They're just kind of like goingto like the strip clubs every
night.
And other guys are just, youknow, they're finding it in
medication and other guys aredealing with it in the bottom of
a bottle.
And then there's then there'sother guys who have kind of
battled those demons and andcame out the other side and now
(41:27):
they're trying to help people,you know, like a social worker
or things like that.
I just tried to show how eachguy was dealing with the after
effects of it and what it wasdoing, because everybody does,
you know, copes a different way.
You know, we all know peoplewho have been.
We're all of the age where weknow people who have been in the
military, or we know people whohave PTSD from other things,
(41:50):
and it's something thateverybody deals with in a
different way.
So it's sometimes it might belike it sounds like it's a
cliche, like you know they'rejust drinking because the things
bother them, but you know, butthat's how some people deal with
it.
And some people deal with itthrough drug abuse and some
people deal with it, just, youknow, by taking medications that
(42:12):
they get from theirprescriptions from their doctors
.
And other people just deal withit by not dealing with it and
they don't realize that it'sjust completely, you know,
destroying their physical andmental well-being because they
don't think that they have aproblem with anything and they
don't realize that they needhelp.
And then other people recognizeit and you know they're, and
they're able to go and get helpand kind of push past that, and
(42:35):
so it's different for everybody.
So I think that's why and Ithink you know now that we know
more about PTSD and we know thatit's not only something that
people in military or lawenforcement experience, it's
something that anybody canexperience.
You know, I could get into acar accident and that could be a
traumatic experience for me, if, if, if you know, depending on
(42:55):
what happened and what's all,that could be so traumatic.
I might never be able to drivein a car again, or I might not
want to drive on a highway again.
So I think that's why itresonates with people, is
because they see that it's not,it's not just.
You know, once they get pastthe more part of the story, that
they see a little bit ofthemselves and some of these
characters, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
And as someone who's read it, I absolutely like what
you said about the vignettes,about the characters.
That's exactly it.
You know, all of those littlesnapshots of the behind the
scenes of those particularcharacters drew me as a non
military individual that hasn'texperienced that, drew me right
into it and I could connect withthem right away.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
That's awesome, man.
So that's a great little homageto you know, to to your service
and to to those you recognize.
You know, I would say it'sprobably you know, influential,
you know you can, and peopleappreciate that for its
authenticity.
You know, and horror authors,we, we try to be as authentic as
we can, you know.
We try to write about thethings that scare us, you know,
(44:00):
and that that becomes a fearthat we could pass on to
somebody else, and so that thatseems like a great, a great
place to stop this.
You know, I know you're shorton time.
We definitely appreciate youcoming out for during your break
and and and making this happenwith us, and it's been an
absolute pleasure, man, so Iappreciate you guys having me.
Absolutely, we'll definitelyplan to do it again.
(44:22):
Like I said, this is season twoand there's not many horror
authors, so we try to have youknow.
We're trying to figure out, ormaybe a rotation, or just bring
the same guys on.
So, don't expect this to be thelast time we get ahold of you,
but before we go, can you tellpeople where you want people to
find your books?
Man, tell them where they cankeep up to date with you and
where you want them to go.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
Okay, yeah, so if you go to my website
johnlunchbookscom I said JohnLunch because I had talked with
John Lynch L-I-N-C-H bookscom Ifyou go there that's kind of
like the hub you could get to myonline shop from there, you
could get to my newsletter fromthere and then it will also link
you to like Amazon from there.
(44:59):
So if you like signed copies,you can get to signed copies
from there.
The best way to know everythingthat's going on kind of what my
writing would be is tosubscribe to the newsletter.
If you subscribe to mynewsletter, you know you can
have links to my socials fromthere.
You'll be able to get toeverything and everything that's
me from there or my website,and kind of find out what I'm up
to.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
That's awesome, man.
We appreciate you coming on, weappreciate your service and we
appreciate your time today.
So, Jay, do you got anythingelse man?
Speaker 2 (45:29):
No, just it was awesome to have you on here,
john.
I know we, you know we've beentalking a lot and we worked
pretty closely together on ourbook and it's awesome to finally
get you on the podcast.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
That's good.
I'm glad to be here and I'mlooking forward to actually get
slaughtered late coming intomail.
So I'm going to read that one.
It should be here any day now,probably, and then I'm looking
forward to big fucking spidertoo.
I keep pounding Jay about it.
I'm like this book is going tocome out in time, right, because
I need this book.
I don't know.
I saw the cover and I was likethis sounds great.
It sounds like it sounds like afun, fun book.
(46:03):
So I'm really looking forwardto that.
Speaker 1 (46:06):
Yeah, I think we'll make our deadline.
We're doing pretty good.
We set it far enough in advanceso that all the delaying that
we did it was okay yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
But I think I pre-order the day you put it up,
the day that I saw you wantthat, you want to pre-order is
like I'm getting that yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
And I've got people that, that message being said,
I'll buy anything but this.
Speaker 2 (46:28):
I don't do spiders and I'm like that's exactly why
you read.
Speaker 1 (46:31):
You need to read this .
But anyway, folks, so let's letme wrap it up here.
So this, ladies and gentlemen,you've been listening to the
Night Marriage and Podcasts,episode three of season two,
with our wonderful guess, whatwe so much appreciate, mr John
Lynch.
Thank you, folks, for your time.
John, thank you.
And Jay, you got anything elsefor us, man?
Speaker 2 (46:53):
No, we're good to go, man All right, Y'all folks have
a good night.
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