How did you like the show? Text us and let us know.
Episode Description: In this episode of "The Nightmare Engine" podcast, host David Viergutz has an engaging conversation with special guest Alan Baxter. They discuss Alan's prolific career in horror writing, his experiences in martial arts, and the complexities of the horror genre. Alan shares his insights on writing short stories, the horror community, and personal fears. They also delve into Alan's unique perspective as an immigrant and his life in Australia.
Show Notes:
[00:00:00] Introduction: David Viergutz welcomes listeners and provides an update on his recent projects, including a new space horror called "The Drift" and a unique horror letter service called "Scareme."
[00:02:00] Guest Introduction: David introduces Alan Baxter, a prolific author from Australia with a long career in horror writing.
[00:04:00] Alan's Background: Alan talks about his journey into writing, starting in the late '90s, and his extensive body of work including 30 books and over 100 short stories.
[00:07:00] Short Stories in Horror: Discussion on the importance of short stories in the horror genre and Alan's approach to writing them.
[00:09:00] Martial Arts and Writing: Alan shares his background in martial arts and how it influences his writing and teaching.
[00:14:00] Family and Traditions: Alan talks about balancing his family life with his writing and martial arts, and the importance of tradition.
[00:20:00] Living in Australia: Alan discusses the unique challenges and beauties of living in Australia and how it influences his work.
[00:27:00] The Horror Community: David and Alan discuss the welcoming nature of the horror community and its inclusivity.
[00:32:00] Writing Honest Horror: Alan explains why he believes horror is a genre of honesty and how it addresses real-life injustices.
[00:38:00] Alan's Work: Discussion on Alan's notable works including "The Gulp," "The Fall," and his latest novel "Blood Covenant."
[00:42:00] Literary Influences: Alan shares his literary influences, including Clive Barker and Roald Dahl, and his views on short stories and novellas.
[00:45:00] Conclusion: Final thoughts and where to find Alan Baxter's work.
Where to Find Alan Baxter:
- Website: Alan Baxter
- Books: "The Gulp," "The Fall," "Blood Covenant," and more available on major platforms.
Thank you for listening to "The Nightmare Engine"! Stay tuned for more exciting episodes.
🔗 Connect with David
🌎 Website | 🎥 YouTube | 👨🏫 Facebook |
🔗Connect with David
🌎 Website | 🎥 Youtube | 👨🏫Facebook | 📸 Instagram |🐤 Twitter | 🕰️TikTok
⭐️ Leave a Review
If you enjoy listening to the podcast, please do leave a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts and let us know in your review who you want to see next on the podcast. Thanks!
You can also Tweet me
I am solo in the studio today.
My co-host, jay Bauer, is notgoing to be present for this
season, if you are looking forhim, so it's just me.
So, that being said, it isgoing to be another exciting
week.
I am trying to get theseepisodes loaded as quickly as
possible and scheduling and allthat stuff with our wonderful
(00:22):
guests.
I will say I'm ramping thingsup this season and we have the
lineup is just amazing.
Um, so I'm really happy toannounce, um, a very special
author that we've got with metoday, but real quick.
Um, just what's coming down thechopping block on my end?
Um, so I've got, uh, I'mcurrently working on a few side
projects, um, as well as a newhorror, uh, space horror, called
(00:45):
the Drift, which I'm reallyexcited to release to y'all.
We'll be talking about thatlater on in the newsletter, so
don't worry about it too much.
We still got a little bit oftime, but besides that, I will
be.
I think it's probably safe toannounce that I have a new
project coming down the linecalled Scareme.
So this is a letter servicewhere the retelling of horror
(01:07):
stories through traditional mail.
So we're going to be gettingrid of spam, getting rid of
bills in the mail and insteadgiving you something exciting
that you can look forward to.
So we're going to be revampingthe way horror stories are told.
So that's coming down the line.
Besides that, it's just anaverage day for me and I think
that's enough talking.
On my end.
I am proud to introduce Mr AlanBaxter.
(01:29):
Alan, all the way fromAustralia.
How are you, sir?
I'm well thanks for having mewho you are.
Could you tell us a little bitabout yourself, because you have
been in this game for a verylong time and I think I saw some
dates going back 20 years maybe, or maybe a little further than
(01:50):
that.
Alan Baxter (01:51):
Yeah Well, yeah, I
mean the short version.
I started taking the idea ofwriting seriously sort of in the
late 90s.
Took a long time to figure outwhat I was doing and get my
stuff together.
I've been publishing for closeto 20 years now.
I've had a book out, at leastone book a year for the last 10
(02:12):
years.
So I do some co-writing withDavid Wood, mostly solo writing,
and I'm this is ridiculousbecause I say I think I think
I'm up to around 30 books atthis point.
In some ways it's a bit hard topick which is which qualifies
as a book.
So some novellas that came intoprint and out of print again
and that sort of thing, uh, butyeah, so like 30 books, 100
(02:33):
something, short stories andeverything over the last 15, 20
years, yeah 100 short stories.
David Viergutz (02:39):
So that's that's
interesting.
So that's a different kind ofwriting.
I I have been kind of digginginto that myself.
I've been, I've put myself tothe goal of one short story a
month, sometimes two, and that'sthat's a little curious,
because we'll talk about thatlater.
But that's definitely that'sawesome to hear that somebody's
like putting that much in ashort story, because I think
short stories in horror justhave a got a place, you know.
Oh, absolutely, short storiesin the romance are just prime
(03:06):
for horror.
Yeah, I'm a huge short storyfan.
So, yeah, happy to talk aboutthat.
Yeah, excellent.
So, and let's talk a little bitthis about, about your, your
other other job, so the thingthat, the thing that you were
doing too, which I findinteresting, I think a lot of
people would find interesting aswell.
So you are an instructor, um,and so I'm not going to butcher,
I'm gonna let you tell me aboutyour teaching in your school,
sure?
Alan Baxter (03:23):
Sure, I've been a
martial artist since I was a kid
and I studied a bunch ofdifferent styles and I competed
in all sorts of different thingsand eventually sort of found my
home in traditional ChineseKung Fu.
And for the last many years toomany years to count I've
trained in Chuale Fa Kung Fu,which includes the kung fu side
(03:46):
of things as well as the lohanqigong, as well as traditional
lion dance and medicine.
It's a very big traditionalsystem with its roots in the
shell, in temple, but it's avery practical system as well.
We only teach what can beapplied.
We don't, we know, we don'twant any sort of wushu and dance
moves.
It's all about fighting.
If it's not, if it's notapplicable, it's.
You know, we got no time for it, um, so yeah, I've been
(04:07):
training and teaching that nowfor a long time.
I'm a disciple of grandmasterchan yongfao, who's uh in sydney
now.
I've since moved away fromsydney.
I live down in tasmania now,but I'm still part of that sort
of disciple group and we we lookafter the system for him and we
teach around the world there.
There's 20 of us all around theworld that sort of take care of
(04:27):
his family style.
David Viergutz (04:30):
Wow, so it's a
host family style and there's
only 20 instructors in the wholeworld.
Alan Baxter (04:35):
Oh, there's a lot
more than 20 instructors.
So there's a long version, ashort version.
I'll try to give you the shortversion.
So Chole Fat is a very bigtraditional system system.
It's probably the most widelypracticed kung fu style outside
of china these days.
There are a number of familybranches, but the style was
founded by a guy called chanheong back in the early 1800s.
My teacher, my sifu, is chanheong's great-great-grandson, so
(04:58):
that's the familial line.
So our branch is known as thechan family, choy le fat.
There's thousands of ChanFamily Chole Fat practitioners
around the world.
There's a variety ofinstructors at different levels
and there are disciple levelsand the dragon disciples are the
highest level of disciple andit's sort of our job to look
after all the other instructorsand everything else.
(05:18):
So there are 20 dragondisciples.
There are many instructorsafter that, but yeah, I just
appreciate tradition.
David Viergutz (05:26):
You know, yeah,
and it's it's hard to find it,
you try to.
You try to pass that down toyour family and try to pass
something down.
You know traditions of ofreading and things that you do
at the dinner table and thetimes you spend with them, like
that's, that's amazing.
So do you?
Do you have a family?
Do you have a wife, children,that sort of thing.
Alan Baxter (05:44):
Yeah, I have a kid
and a wife and we like he's 10
years old, so a challenge initself.
But yeah, we are sort ofreestablishing ourselves now
down here in Tasmania.
One of the sort of key thingsfor us was moving somewhere
where we felt a bit more likethe community and the place and
everything sort of suited us.
(06:05):
So that's been great.
So we're still sort of gettingused to that at the moment.
Um, but yeah, tradition, I agreewith you, it's important, like
one of the things aboutcharlotte.
When, having tried manydifferent styles and many
different sort of variations onstyles as over the many years
I've been doing martial arts,the thing about Cham family
(06:25):
Chole Phat was that really goodbalance of tradition and real
respect for where it came fromand honoring sort of the
ancestors that passed it downand understanding the really
deep cultural connections thatthe style has way beyond
fighting or anything else.
But that is also still verymuch in touch with the practical
aspects of what it is, not onlyin fighting but in a way of
(06:48):
life you know.
So becomes this whole sort oflife path thing that you can
informs everything you do verycool.
David Viergutz (06:56):
And do your, do
your family, do they practice as
well, the same way you do?
Alan Baxter (07:00):
a little bit.
My wife has stepped back alittle bit at the moment since
we moved, but she's aninstructor herself, and also at
a high level.
My kid did it for a littlewhile, but then, as children do,
they like to find their ownpaths and stuff, so I'm not
going to push it.
Sometimes kids are just keen tofollow and do everything you do
(07:27):
, and then or they're keen to doabsolutely nothing that you do.
David Viergutz (07:31):
So yeah, that's
how it goes, wonderful.
And so how do they?
How did your let's put it thisway have you, has your, has your
wife known you?
If you don't mind me asking,has she, she known you
pre-horror writing or after youstarted horror writing?
Did you start when you werealready married or were you
already married?
Alan Baxter (07:52):
I started sort of
professionally after we were
married.
So I was born and raised in theUK and in my sort of mid-20s I
was getting sick of the rut thatI was in and everything else
and I decided to just sort oftake myself off traveling.
And a friend of me and a friendI had a guitar and a backpack
(08:14):
and I just I ended up sort ofwandering around for a couple of
years, all sorts of differentcountries and everything else.
Prior to that I'd been writinga lot, but not with any view to
publication or with any view tosort of doing it seriously.
It was just something that Idid and I've always enjoyed
role-playing games Dungeons andDragons and all that sort of
stuff and I would always like tobe a DM because I got to tell
the story, I got to sort ofwrite what was going on.
(08:38):
And it was while doing that,traveling for a couple of years,
where I started really thinkingwhat did I want from life, what
?
What did I want to do?
And that's when I decided totake writing seriously and it's
like, well, why don't I tryactually getting published?
Why don't I see if I can makethis thing work?
And it was in the same periodof time that I met my wife.
So they're sort of fairlyconcurrent in that respect.
(08:58):
So I'd been writing sincebefore I met her.
But I've only been writing likewith a view to publication and
writing professionally since Imet her.
And and has she read anythingyou've written?
She has, she's.
She's read a lot of what I'vewritten, but she tends to not
read much.
Now she's she.
She's not the biggest horrorfan and she's.
(09:21):
Yeah, she constantly sort ofapologizes for not reading stuff
, but I've traumatized her toomany times and so she's like no,
I'm not doing it anymore.
David Viergutz (09:31):
Absolutely fair.
My, my wife's the same way, um,and, and she, she appreciates
it, she understands it.
She loves the movies.
Occasionally she'll.
She likes a horror book, butshe's a pretty diverse reader.
She'll read a lot of thingsright now.
Likes a horror book, but she'sa pretty diverse reader.
She'll read a lot of thingsright now she's kind of on a
romantic kick.
I think a lot of folks are onand um, but yeah, and I just
explained to her, I'm like, lookit's, it's okay, you know
(09:52):
exactly, there's no obligationI've got a trilogy of sort of
dark urban fantasy.
Alan Baxter (09:56):
My alex kane series
is a trilogy that's a lot of
magic and monsters and it's gotvery dark edges, a lot of horror
tropes, and she read thattrilogy and really enjoyed it.
But the more stuff, the stuffthat leans sort of further into
horror, is a bit sort of outsideher wheelhouse and so yeah,
yeah.
David Viergutz (10:13):
Now I got a
question that's specific to
Australia, because you've beenthere forever.
Is it true that everythingthere is designed to kill you,
like it just does not want youon this, on that island?
Alan Baxter (10:21):
Yeah, even the
country itself.
Like you know, people gowandering into the outback and
think they'll go for a hike andthen the country just swallows
them.
It's like, yeah, it equally.
It's just, you know, there's apopulation of us here that just
live and enjoy the country andit's, it's absolutely fine, you,
it's.
It's that sort of weird umbalance that it is an amazing
(10:44):
place and a beautiful place anda wonderful place.
It is also a very dangerousplace potentially, but it's only
really dangerous if you're sortof really stupid, like if you
pay attention to what's going on, like you don't stick your hand
in a hole in a log, you don'twander into the outback without
a lot of preparation, you don't,you know you just if you're
aware of stuff and you just payattention, it's really no more
(11:06):
dangerous than anywhere else,yeah, you have to ask yourself,
like am I in a scary movie rightnow?
David Viergutz (11:10):
yeah, if you are
, you're like, yeah, I'm just
not gonna do that thing.
Alan Baxter (11:13):
Like, yeah, that's
it you know, if there's a light
switch at the top of thebasement stairs, why would you
go down the stairs withouthitting the switch first?
If you do you, you know youdeserve.
You deserve what you get.
David Viergutz (11:21):
Yeah, that's
awesome, and so I'm sure it is
probably a topic of discussion,but tell me about your book, the
Rue, please, and should otherbecause it's related to your
connection to Australia.
It's clearly about kangaroos.
(11:42):
Tell me about that, becauseit's got one of the funniest
covers and I just I've seen I'veseen some b-movie horror movies
before with with kangaroos andso I just it's got this
nostalgic feel for me.
Alan Baxter (11:52):
so tell me, tell me
yeah, well, I mean it happened
because of the cover.
So the short version of this isthat, um, back when twitter was
still a nice place to hang out,um, there was a big
conversation going on because abunch of people, uh, were
sharing a news article from thenorthern territory in australia
and the news article was sayingabout how this kangaroo was
terrorizing this small town andit was digging up gardens and
(12:14):
attacking people, which is whatroos do from time to time.
They're belligerent pricks alot of the time, you know
they're.
They're just.
They're like you imagine, likeif you got deer.
They're basically like deer.
They just wander around andthey graze and whatever else.
It's just that every once in awhile they just get really
pissed off with people and go abit cranky for no really
apparent reason.
But they're not a huge threat.
(12:35):
Again, if you're smart, there'snot really any danger to it.
Um, but this article was goingaround and a lot of people were
saying surely this isn't realand it's like no, that's real,
that happens sometimes.
And so then everybody startedlaughing and joking about a
kangaroo terrorizing a town.
And then keelan patrick burke,who's a brilliant, brilliant
horror writer, um irish guy nowliving in the us.
(12:55):
Um, he's also a brilliant coverdesigner and so, for a bit of a
laugh, he mocked up an oldzebra horror cover called the
rue.
Uh, and then everybody startedsaying that's insane, that's
such a cool cover, that's thatthat it's a shame to waste, that
we need the book to go with thecover.
Um, and then everybody startedsort of because I was the token
australian in that conversationeverybody started saying you
(13:16):
should write it.
You got to write this story.
And then I started getting dmsabout it as well, people going,
seriously, can you write thisstory?
It would be amazing.
So I contacted keelan and Iarranged with him to buy the
cover and I had in mind a storythat I wanted to write, um, that
was set in an outback town andI hadn't really got my head
around yet what I was going touse for that sort of allegorical
(13:37):
monster, that or or force orwhatever that was going to be
central to the story, and it waslike, well, why not a demonic
kangaroo?
And that's so that I startedthinking about that and I
expanded the idea and it's anovella now.
So it's sort of it's not novellength, it's a decent size, um,
yeah, but it's.
It's basically like a movielength is.
You know that, being a novella,it's similar length to a movie
script, you know, um, and I justleaned into all those old films
(14:01):
that I love from back in theday the Jaws, the Cujo,
especially Razorback, which issuch an Australian piece of
filmmaking.
I deliberately didn't watchRazorback again before I wrote
the book and then, after I wrotethe book, I watched it again
and was reminded of just howbonkers that film is Razorback.
David Viergutz (14:17):
I'm adding that
to my list now because my wife
and I were just talking todayabout a list of watching some
older horror movies.
Alan Baxter (14:24):
Well, brace
yourself for just truly bizarre.
It is so Australian and just socrazy.
It's the most insane thing.
And so, yeah, basically the Rueis just homage to all those
creature feature novels andmovies, especially from the 80s,
and with a little bit of anupdated sensibility behind the
(14:46):
story.
That's in there, but the basic,my basic sort of personal brief
for the story was demonickangaroo and every kill gets
crazier than the last, and justsort of worked through that and
that.
That.
That became the story and andit became thankfully I mean,
you're always grateful whenthese things happened but it
became wildly popular.
David Viergutz (15:04):
So, yeah, yeah
yeah, absolutely, and, and it's,
it's a little bit, it's alittle bit silly, it's a little
bit outlandish, but it's alsoone of those things that horror
can say why not, you know?
Other genres are like ah, youcan't do that, then horror,
you're like why the hell not?
You know?
Yeah, yeah, exactly uh, I can't, I, I'm.
I'm.
Alan Baxter (15:23):
Brian assman had
this book that came out called
man, fuck this house yes yeah, Ibought it specifically because
of the title and I think I thinkprobably at least 50 percent of
the people that bought thatbook were just like, oh my god,
they saw the title and they justlike, well, I need to know more
.
David Viergutz (15:38):
So, yeah, that
was totally inspirational, that
one in and the because I'm likeit's so simple, it's right there
in my face.
So I was like I want to write abook as well and it's, it's on
my roster.
I've put 20 000 words in it'sand I and I we bought a cover.
I didn't like it, so we had aco-writer and then I was like
okay, so it's been through thehassles, but it's called big
fucking spider and it's inspiredby the room and it's inspired
(15:59):
by man.
Fuck this house because it'sbrilliant, because of the title
and I was like man, I'm likeit's, it's right there in your
face.
You know, sharknado is theexact same way.
It had six sequels.
I'm like I feel pretty goodabout big fucking spider if
sharknado has had six sequels,like yeah, that's it, and this
is the thing you know.
Alan Baxter (16:14):
When you have
things like that that are
successful, like like you justmentioned, it's just proof that
nothing's off limits, nothing'soff the table.
If you want to give it a go,just give it a go, and it might
fall flat or it might not, butwhy not try it?
You know the only thing I saywith stuff like that, like with
the roof, there has to be a bitmore to it than just the fact
that it's, yes, this crazymonster murdering loads of
(16:36):
people, because that's great fun, but in and of itself, it needs
a bit more meat on its bones.
And so you know, obviously,like any story, you need a good
story and you need goodcharacters underneath what
you're doing.
But yeah, dress it up howeveryou like.
If you want a demonic kangarooor a big fucking spider or
anything else, just roll with itI mean, isn't that, what isn't
that what the average zombiestory is, though?
David Viergutz (16:57):
it's like, yeah,
there's zombies, we know what
they do.
But it's like, okay, thezombies are outside, but what do
we have?
We just have a bunch of peoplewho are stuck inside trying to
survive each other.
You know, they know how to killthe zombies.
That's the easy part, right.
Alan Baxter (17:08):
The hard part is
how do we survive with each
other, and I think that's one ofthe most genius things like a
shopping mall, like with youknow, with you know probably my
favorite of the zombie movies.
It's just like you put a wholebunch of different people
trapped somewhere with zombiesoutside, and where do you trap
them?
It's like, well, in a mall.
It's like fucking genius.
David Viergutz (17:24):
That's just
brilliant, yeah yeah, I mean
that's uh, uh.
What do you call the kingmethod?
I mean, look at kujo, you have.
You get three people in a hotcar and a dog circling it.
I mean that's the whole premise.
Alan Baxter (17:34):
Yeah, how about, uh
, how about gerald's game?
The whole thing is woman tiedto a bed.
David Viergutz (17:38):
Yeah, like it
doesn't, doesn't get beyond the
foot of the bed yeah, I meanit's if you can do that, or if
you can write a story that'scompletely just in somebody's
head for the entire time.
I think that's like that to mewould be the ultimate like brain
buster.
It's like man, um, like youjust put a bunch of people in a
very close space and force themto interact and survive each
other and you get instantconflict and you get all this
(17:58):
craziness that we love, thatthat we just, I mean, and and
the thing like the rue becomesrue becomes the thing that holds
them together, like it's likehey, we, yeah, that's the
catalyst.
Alan Baxter (18:07):
That's it.
I mean I did it recently withmy latest book is Blood Covenant
and one of the sort of thingsin my mind on writing that is
it's set in a remote hotel.
That's kind of it's up in themountains out in the bush and
it's distant from everything.
And one of the driving factorsfor that was that everything
happens in and around the hotel.
So it starts with these guysthe bank robbery goes wrong and
(18:29):
they go on the run and theythink the hotel is empty so they
hole up there.
The family who run the hotelhave just arrived to open up.
So these two groups are thereagainst each other and they wake
up something in the bush thatthen they're both fighting
against and then the whole thingjust it's focused there in the
hotel and the bush surroundingthe hotel and that was one of
the driving parts of it is.
I want this contained thing.
(18:49):
They're trying to get away fromit, but they're held into it.
That was a large part of, youknow, the drive for that story.
David Viergutz (18:54):
I love that sort
of tight focus horror that
works like that yeah, I thinkthat I mean because like we talk
about, like lovecraft, and wetalk about lovecraft horror,
it's got this big ominous feelto it right, this very bird's
eye view of everything going on.
But then you have the down-homehorror that the average person
really kind of.
It doesn't force you to ponderso much.
The big Lovecraftian-styleworlds they really force you to
(19:17):
ponder.
If you look at it, for example,the thing is a thousand pages I
.
It spans.
It spans like an epic,basically, of how, of how long
this, this story has been toldfor with this, this creature,
you know, I mean it's like twonovels together, the kids and
the grown-ups, you know, liketwo concurrent novels.
Alan Baxter (19:34):
It's.
David Viergutz (19:35):
Yeah, it's quite
a thing yeah, and it's got that
that very big picture view toit.
Then you kind of whittle downto the characters individually.
I mean when we write, you knowthe horror, the kind of horror
we write, the mainstream genrehorror like we bring it a lot
closer than that, right, I meanthat we I mean there's not a lot
of questions asked.
I mean it's questions to thecharacters, but not kind of
questions about the world andthe universe and everything like
(19:56):
that.
It's not like we're ponderingwhy things are the way they are.
It's just like here's a scarything that we got to deal with
in a very human way and I thinkthat's yeah, I mean there's a
scary thing that we got to dealwith in a very human way, and I
think that's yeah, I meanthere's a good place.
Alan Baxter (20:05):
I mean, some of my
stuff does sort of expand out.
Like you know, I have writtensome things that that do take
like a bigger view, but eventhen it's always that bigger
view from the point of view of acloser focus.
I think that's.
I think that's where you stayfocused and I think that's
(20:33):
really a lot of the time.
That's the skill in good horroris is finding that character
focus, um, and like you know,you take something like the
thing is galactic and everythingelse, but it's this isolated,
um arctic station with this sortof contained group of people,
and that's how the story is told.
And I think that's where horrorworks best is when it's got
(20:55):
that character focus so let meask you this why do you think
people read horror?
David Viergutz (21:00):
because I I
listen to a prominent indie
author, um, and his opinion, andwhile I appreciate his opinion
for what it is, his opinion Ithink is wrong.
He said that if you want towrite horror and try and make a
living, write another genre andthen write horror on the side.
And it's taken me five years toget to where I am now and
(21:24):
clearly that's not the case.
But at the same time he saidthe reason that that's the case
is because people have enoughhorror in their real lives that
they don't want to read it.
And I'm like well, I don'tthink that's true, because
horror in somebody else's lifeis generally worse than what
you're reading.
Alan Baxter (21:41):
Horror always does
better when the world's a
shithole, like you know.
When things are on the up,horror goes down.
When things are really roughand terrible, horror goes up.
It's always been that way.
I think part of it is the factthat in some ways there's
reading stuff it's like, well,the world is shit, but it could
be this bad.
In some ways there's readingstuff it's like, well, the world
is shit, but it could be thisbad, it could be worse.
(22:02):
And there's also horror.
It helps you develop copingmechanisms.
You put yourself in traumaticsituations and you see how the
characters deal with it and youthink how you would deal with it
.
There are scientific studiesthat have proven that people who
read and watch horror arebetter equipped to deal with
trauma than people who don't,because they've sort of
subconsciously practiced traumathrough horror.
And I think a lot of the reasonwe read it is because we get
(22:23):
that cathartic process and weget to process thoughts about
how we would deal with thosesituations.
But also we read horror for thesame reason we ride roller
coasters it's just good fun,it's a thrill.
David Viergutz (22:35):
Yeah, I had an
interview with Tim Wagner a long
time ago and it still stickswith me to this day.
He's like horror is fun.
He's like it's not meant to bethis.
His opinion is that it's notmeant to be a coping mechanism,
but the coping does happen.
I think I would totally believethat there are studies out there
I haven't seen them, but I'mlike I would totally believe it
(22:58):
that there are studies that sayyou know, you would become, you
somewhat become stronger in away, by witnessing things in a
safe environment.
You're like you're reading itor you're watching in a movie
and it's like, yeah, there'sgoing to be probably some select
few who are kind of traumatizedfrom things, but also, the same
time, there's going to be themajority of people who are like,
well, you know this, I've lived, I've watched this happen.
You know, I kind of have anidea of, hey, at least it could
be worse, you know, you know,and I believe there's scoping to
it.
So it's like I totally believethat horror is meant to be fun.
(23:20):
I mean it's meant to have athrill right, the thrilling
feeling, and to be scared in asafe way.
I think that's fine.
I mean that's part of beinghuman right, yeah, I mean.
Alan Baxter (23:31):
Octavia Butler said
no entertainment on earth can
match a good story, compellinglytold, and for me, whatever else
I'm doing, that's central to me.
Everything is in service tostory and story needs to be
entertaining.
I want people who pick up oneof my books to read it have a
good time, have good fun with itand at the end of it go, wow,
(23:51):
that was a great ride.
Anything else that's in thereis secondary to that and, you
know, hopefully there is a lotof stuff in there.
Hopefully there is a lot ofstuff in there.
Hopefully there is a lot of,you know, sort of character
study and considering the humancondition and thinking about the
bigger issues and all that sortof stuff.
But the issues are never thedriving force.
The driving force is alwaysstory and character and having
fun.
I want people to be entertained.
(24:12):
People read because they'restepping out of real life,
they're stepping outside of thetraumas.
I'm going to sit down for alittle while with a good book
and even if it's a sort oftraumatic book, it's traumatic
in the context of the book, notin context of their lives, and
so I want them to sit down andenjoy that process.
That's always, first andforemost, what's going on, yeah?
David Viergutz (24:32):
Yeah, and where
would you put your horror?
Do you put it right in themiddle?
Do you put it leaning towardsthe extreme end?
Do you put it towards the cozyend?
If that's your bracket, wheredo you think you fall?
It's always hard to say.
Alan Baxter (24:44):
I'm not either end.
It's certainly not sort of cozyhorror.
My stuff can be pretty dark andbleak a lot of the time.
But I'm not an extreme horrorwriter or a sort of slatterpunk
writer, even though from time totime elements of that creep in.
One of my biggest influenceswas always Clive Barker and I
(25:07):
really love that, what he calledthe dark fantasy.
I really like that blending ofhorror, fantasy, supernatural
monsters, that kind of vibe.
That's kind of my samp it.
Um, and a lot of the time it'syeah, it's it.
It sits somewhere in the middle, I think.
In that respect I'm definitelynot an extreme author, um, but
(25:28):
you know it's stuff that's a bittoo much and too too
confronting sometimes from formy wife to read, so it's not
cozy because she she enjoys thecozy stuff.
But, um, uh, yeah, you knowthere are elements of body
horror that creep into my stuffas well, and so you know there's
moments where it sort of dropsaround the place.
But that dark fantastic, thathorror fantasy sort of crossover
(25:49):
, that's where I really feel athome yeah, I think there's.
David Viergutz (25:52):
I think it's a
tool.
Right, we got to use it.
I mean, use it to our advantage.
You know this, our advantage.
Let's look at a perfect examplewhere the extremeness is
already there without it being atool.
Look at the girl next door.
That one is all real life, nofantasy, straight horror.
(26:14):
You didn't need to add the bodyhorror and all that stuff
because it's already there.
And it's like you didn't needto add the body horror and all
that stuff because it's alreadythere and it's already happening
.
And it's like what?
That one, that one has stuckwith me for a very long time.
I read that book, I don't know,probably, probably 15 years ago
, and even then I don't think Iwas ready, ready for it.
And to this day I'm still kindof tempted to pick it up again.
But I'm like I've got it.
(26:34):
You know, to be read listthat's this long and I'm like I
do want to give it another tryand read it through again.
Alan Baxter (26:41):
The Onyx Door is
one of the best books I've ever
read, but I will not read again.
David Viergutz (26:45):
Yes, I think
that's for a lot of folks.
Alan Baxter (26:48):
Yeah, it's an
amazing book and I recommend it
all the time, but Very Much Oncewas enough for me on that front
apart.
But very much Once was enoughfor me on that front, apart from
the fact that there's somebooks I'll reread, but there are
so many great books out therethat something has to be truly
outstanding for me to reread it,and the Girl Next Door is truly
outstanding, but it's also thattraumatic that I don't need to
(27:08):
read it again.
David Viergutz (27:09):
Yeah, it hit me
once, Amazing yeah exactly I
know what's coming.
Alan Baxter (27:15):
Yeah, Red is
probably one of my favourites by
Ketchum.
That's just outstanding.
But when you talk about usinghorror to explore human nature
or whatever, brilliant.
David Viergutz (27:28):
So what's on
your shelf right now?
What's the most recent bookyou've been reading?
Alan Baxter (27:32):
I'm actually well,
I'm reading a couple of things
at the moment.
Angela Slater is an Australianfantasy author and I just picked
up her new one called the BriarBook of the Dead, which I
literally just read the firstchapter last night, because I
still enjoy the good fantasynovels from time to time.
And I'm also working my waythrough Ellen Datlow's Shirley
(27:54):
Jackson anthology, where she gota bunch of people to write sort
of stories inspired by ShirleyJackson.
I can't remember what it'scalled because it screams from
the dark, something like that.
It's in the other room so Ican't.
I can't remember what it'scalled.
But yeah, ellen Datlow'sShirley Jackson anthology.
And Datlow is she's a nevermiss editor for me.
Talking about you know shortstories, yeah, about you know
(28:20):
short stories, yeah, um, she'sshe's just, you know sort of the
premier editor when it comes toshort fiction and she puts
together the most she nevermisses with an anthology or a
best so let's talk about shortstories.
David Viergutz (28:26):
Then you've got
a hundred plus short stories.
I don't, I have a quarter ofthat.
Let's talk, because you've gotway more short stories than you
do.
Novels, of course, but yeah,let's.
What are your thoughts on them?
Where do they fall?
Should readers read them?
What's, oh, what's the what'sthe deal with shorts?
Alan Baxter (28:42):
well, I mean, I
started, so I started with
novels.
I started writing novels, um,and I always love short stories.
I just I sort of reallydiscovered short stories when I
discovered um roald dahl's shortstory collections for adults on
my parents shelf when I was tooyoung to be reading those
twisted stories really, um, andI've sort of been a huge fan of
(29:05):
short stories ever since then,but it never sort of really
occurred to me to try writingthem.
I was always thinking of myselfas a novelist.
But then a lot of people andespecially back then as well
were like oh you know, a reallygood way to get your name out
there and to get noticed is towrite some short stories,
because editors see you, readerssee your name and they might
check out what else is out there.
(29:25):
Somebody will read a shortstory before they'll take a
chance on a novel by someonethey don't know and if they
enjoy your short story, blah,blah, blah.
So OK, that makes sense, andI'm a big fan of short stories.
So I decided I would write someand then realized just how
difficult it is to write goodshort stories.
They're the same as a novel inas much as you need a beginning,
a middle and an end, you needcharacter development, you need
(29:48):
conflict and odds and all thatstuff.
But it's a different art form,and so then it sort of became a
personal challenge almost, and Iwas like I want to get good at
this.
And so I, I really worked at itand I, you know, I went to, did
some courses and stuff to helpme get my head around what was,
you know, what were the guts ofa good short story and how to
work that sort of stuff.
(30:09):
And I, I slowly taught myselfhow to do it, and I'm a huge fan
, um, of reading and writingshort stories I'm writing
currently.
What I'm working on right nowis a short story that I was
asked to write for a thing, um,and I'm just really enjoying
being in the middle of thatprocess again yeah, short
(30:29):
stories are really it's.
David Viergutz (30:30):
it's something
that I've.
I do need to do more studyingon.
I've read plenty of novels andI've written plenty of novels
and I've studied plenty ofnovels, but I'm still getting
into the idea of studying shortstories, and especially because
it is so much fun to be in ashort story and then to wish it
never ends and then knowing thatthe ending is inevitably coming
(30:51):
in just a couple of pages andso from a reading perspective,
yeah, the best short stories arelike that.
Yeah, what's that?
Sorry, I was saying the bestshort stories are like that,
yeah what, what's that?
Alan Baxter (30:57):
that's sorry, I was
saying the best short stories
are like that.
You know, one of the one of thebest pieces of advice when it
comes to writing short storiesis to start late and finish
early.
So you know, you, it's a reallytightly focused lens.
You want to start the storyright in the action.
You want to get out without allthe sort of tying up of loose
ends, so you've got that realfocus of what's, what's happened
in the story.
(31:17):
And you know those are oftenthe best ones and it's yeah,
it's.
It's a weird thing, it's a hardthing to sort of, to sort of put
your finger on.
My recommendation is alwaystalking about Ellen Datlow.
Again, every year she does, uh,year's best or best horror of
the year, volume, whatever, andshe's up to I think 16 now or
something.
So every year that comes out.
(31:39):
And if you want to get an ideaof what really good short
fiction is, especially horrorshort fiction, just read that
series of anthologies of thebest horror of the year, because
it's just an outstandingcollection.
It shows the sort of breadthand diversity that you can find
in short horror fiction andevery single volume of that is a
(32:00):
masterclass in shortstorytelling and it's one of my
writer goals to have a storyincluded in that one year.
I've had an honorable mentionin there a few times, but I've
never actually had a reprint inthere yet.
So that's on my bucket list.
David Viergutz (32:12):
Can you give me
the editor's name again?
So I'll spell it out so that wecan give it to ellen datlow
e-double-l-e-n, and then datlowis d-a-t-l-o-w ellen datlow.
Okay, so for those listening,you can search an editor on
amazon or anywhere else, justlike you can search for authors.
So if you search for, ellendatlow, you can find some of
those anthologies which are justcollections of short stories,
(32:32):
and I'm sure you're going tofind some prominent names in
there.
Alan Baxter (32:35):
Yeah there'll be
lots of names that you recognize
from horror in general.
There'll be lots of names youdon't, because she's brilliant
at finding she reads.
It's insane the amount shereads.
She just finds stuff from allover the place, and so I've
discovered new authors therewho've become favorites because
I first discovered them in oneof her best horror of the year
volumes.
David Viergutz (32:56):
Very cool.
Interesting.
So I don't know.
I have a small readership whoenjoys my short stories, um, who
are there specifically for them, um, and I I think that it's
probably a missing piece in forreaders right now.
They like the novels, they likethe long, the big, immersive
worlds, but I think, I thinkreaders are probably missing out
(33:16):
on something they haven't givenshort stories a try.
You know at least I mean peoplelove.
Uh, I don't know if you've seenthose movies that come out at
least lately, and I've got thisobsession with found footage
movies.
Alan Baxter (33:25):
So, um, those
movies vhs um those things are a
perfect example of of of ananthology collection of short
stories, and some of them feed abigger world, and other times
it's just just short and punchyand and terrifying and there's
stuff like, you know, creep showand love, death and robots and
stuff like that that arebasically, and you know, been at
(33:46):
um, guillermo del toro'scabinet of curiosities and stuff
like that.
These anthology shows and eachepisode of that is an adapted
short story.
Like people, a lot of the timepeople sort of I think, don't
really know where to go to findthese sorts of things.
But a lot of authors likemyself have got collections, you
know single author collections,where I collected our best
(34:08):
stories together.
There's a variety ofanthologies out there with lots
of different authors in there.
You can get an explanation.
Exploration of short fiction Ido a lot of short fiction on my
patreon.
Now that's one of the um sortof perks, um one, one of the
levels and above on my patreonis that I write short stories
exclusively there and that.
So that's one place thatreaders can find stuff.
(34:30):
Yeah, it's a good place to findstuff in between novels, um,
but once you start sort oflooking into it and you find
sort of places where you canfind short stories, then there's
gold to be discovered.
There's a lot of great podcastsas well, things like pseudopod
and and um and then the.
What's it called the no, the nosleep podcast and stuff like
that, where they they dobrilliant audio and often
(34:52):
dramatic audio of short stories.
Um, and that's that's fantastic.
Walking the dog, driving thecar, that sort of stuff.
You get to listen to amazingshort fiction it's a good like
20 minute hit.
David Viergutz (35:02):
You know you get
a 5 000 word short story which
is 20 pages.
You got 20 minutes basically ofof in and out good stories.
I mean that's what it comesdown to, right, it's just and
that's a challenge, just likeyou said is it's it's a
challenge to number one.
It's a challenge to hook areader and to like get them
involved in the first couple ofparagraphs, but knowing that
(35:23):
there's limited paragraphsremaining.
So there's not a lot of chancefor redemption you know that's
it.
Alan Baxter (35:29):
And and the other
thing as well with horror, like
horror is really suited to shortstories and novellas as well,
and in part because if you writea novel and someone commits 10,
12 hours of their time to reada novel, um, you, there's a
certain sort of social contractthat they need to get something
out of it and you can't be superbleak a lot of the time.
(35:49):
There needs to be maybe somehope or some redemption or
something that that's off thetable with short fiction.
If you're spending 20 minutesreading a short story, it could
be just bleak as fuck andeveryone dies.
You don't really owe the readeranything other than a good
story, and so you can really.
Yeah, there's this kind of Imean, there's no limits anywhere
in fiction, but in particular,I think with short stories, all
(36:11):
bets are off.
David Viergutz (36:12):
You know
anything can happen in short
fiction and you're in and out,like you said, in 20 minutes, so
you can take any chance youlike.
Yeah, and that's.
That's such an interestingplace, man and I.
I love the idea and you see, alot of film is like this too
where new up-and-coming film, uh, creators will start with short
horror, you know, and they'llgo to these festivals and
(36:33):
they'll have this amazing pieceof short horror, or that's,
that's zero budget, right?
they've done it with withketchup in there and from the
kitchen, you know, and, and, butit's, it's just.
It horror just suits that,which is just weird.
Alan Baxter (36:46):
It's weird that it
works yeah, I mean so many short
stories, a single scene as well, so like single location or
something like that as well,which lends itself to short
filmmaking, and novellas andmovie scripts are about the same
length.
If you try to adapt a novelinto a movie, you're taking a
lot of story away.
But if a novella of about 100and 120 pages is about the same
(37:08):
as a movie script of about thesame pages, they kind of line up
.
So short stories for shortfilms, novellas for feature
films, they're just ripe foradaptation films, novellas, for
feature films, they're, they'rejust ripe for adaptation, yeah.
David Viergutz (37:21):
So let's, let's
uh, let's kind of angle off a
little bit here, so let's talkabout some scary stuff.
I mean I don't and, and I don'tmean like the inspirational
kind, like you know, where doyou get your inspiration?
I think everybody I I like toask this question because
everybody's so so different um,but talk about, give me, give me
something that scares you inyour life, because as a martial
artist, so as a martial artist,um, you know, you have a lot of,
(37:42):
I'm sure you gain a lot ofconfidence from that.
I've been a soldier and I'vebeen a police officer.
I have a lot of confidence fromthat that I can take care of
business if I need to, yeah, andthat takes a lot of the fear
the world away.
But there are still things thatscare me in this world.
So give me something.
What, what could, what?
What scares alan?
Alan Baxter (37:58):
well I I always say
like, yeah, it's similar to
yourself, I've got no concernsabout you know, run, running
into people, I'm not scared ofanyone.
But I am scared of people, umsure, because you know, like
I've I've I've had a not youknow serious like war conflict.
But I've had a lot of conflictin my life, even in control
(38:19):
conditions like in tournamentand stuff like that, and in
fighting, like you know, I'vesort of faced up to stuff.
So I'm not bothered byindividual people.
Just goes to show how people enmasse can be so freaking,
(38:42):
dangerous to other people andthat really scares me.
You know, the world that my kidis growing up in is probably
the thing that scares me themost.
Like my biggest fear is notbeing able to protect my family,
and not from an intruder or notfrom, you know, anything sort
of mundane like that, but fromthe world at large and the way
(39:05):
the world at large works and theway people on mass affect
everyone on an individual level.
You know that scares me.
David Viergutz (39:13):
Yeah, I think
there's.
I think we all kind of,regardless of where you line up
on anything, we all just havethis desire.
I think there's a desire towant to find hope in everything,
and so when we just start tosee that hope go away in mass,
and it's just when you seepeople who become the thing that
(39:35):
you fear, that you see them andand they don't have to and
they're choosing to, yeah, tostart losing hope because it's
supposed to be us that comestogether.
Alan Baxter (39:43):
That's it, they say
.
The arc of the universe bendstowards justice, which may be
true in the greater scheme ofthings, but frequently on a more
tighter timescale, youfrequently see it bending far
away, you know, and certaingroups of people just becoming
victimized or vilified, and forjust for wanting to exist, um,
(40:07):
and it's like why?
Why is this always so muchconflict?
And usually it comes down tofear, um, and ignorance.
A lot of the time, people sortof repeat what they're told and
they don't have the space for aneducation that allows them to
consider other people differentto themselves.
And there's this fear.
A lot of the time people aretold these people are
(40:31):
responsible for your problems,when it's not true, you know,
the people who have most controlover those problems are usually
the people saying these peopleare responsible, not us, um, and
we really need to try to havepeople educated to the degree
that the more you care for eachother, the better everybody is.
(40:52):
You know, the better offeverybody is.
Nobody's, nobody's out to eatyour cookies.
David Viergutz (40:56):
You know there's
cookies enough for everyone and
you know, and that's that's anexcellent point, because the
horror community is is thecommunity for bringing together
people from from all over, fromfrom all walks of life, from
every, every corner of the genre, where the expectations are
(41:16):
quite out the window and there'sa certain level of acceptance
that says, if you, if that, ifyou, if you can't find your
place somewhere, you couldprobably find it with us.
Alan Baxter (41:25):
Yeah, and if people
fuck up in that genre in that
community.
In my experience, we are veryquick as soon as you know that
becomes apparent that that'shappening.
We are very quick as soon asyou know that becomes apparent
that that's happening.
We are very quick to say ifyou're making people unsafe,
you're gone like.
I'm a huge fan of heavy metalmusic as well and I've always
said that I'm I never feel saferand more at home than I do
(41:45):
either at a horror convention ora heavy metal gig where you
know all these rough and readytattoos and long hair and black
and leather and all this sort ofstuff.
Yeah, all the well-to-do peoplecross the street to avoid
people like us, whereas whenwe're all together, nicest
people in the world, safestplace in the world, you know.
David Viergutz (42:00):
Yeah, I came
back from Scares that Care and I
was over there a couple monthsago and that's exactly what it
was like.
It was like a giant family ofpeople, and it's a giant family
of people who are just like youknow what.
You can be one of us.
If you can't fit anywhere else,you can be one of us.
The people who don't mindwatching a scary movie, who
(42:23):
don't look at you crosswaysbecause you find the occult
interesting or whatever it'slike all these things that
people pretend to not like andthey just want to live in the
fantast, fantastical,happy-go-lucky world.
it's like they they look at usas saying, oh, no, that's, and I
say us as in largely the kindof horror community.
You know, horror lovingcommunity readers alike, you
(42:46):
know they just get looked atcrossways like we are somehow
evil because we read about evilthings or write about evil
things, and it's like, no, Imean, that's not the case at all
.
Alan Baxter (42:56):
Yeah, if you, if
you, if you're just going to be
yourself and you're going to letother people be themselves,
then you're welcome in thatcommunity and there's a place
for you in it.
It's like it's the lack ofjudgment in those communities
that I find the most sort ofwarming and welcoming.
(43:17):
You know, like it's it, I Iexperienced it myself when I was
first going to, when I firstdiscovered there were such
things as conventions and thewriting community in general and
the speculative fictioncommunity that I was sort of a
large part of, I still am alarge part of, here in australia
, with the science fiction,fantasy, horror, all that sort
of genre fiction.
Such a welcoming community,people going, hey, come on in
one of us, like we're the nerds,you know, we are the weirdos,
mister.
It's that principle, um, andjust looking out for each other
(43:40):
and not taking shit from peoplewho aren't prepared to look out
for each other.
It's like, and we all I've justever since I've just been doing
my best to pay that forward,because it's just awesome to
have a place where you'rewelcome and where you're safe.
David Viergutz (43:56):
Yeah, and I love
the idea, too, of us as horror
writers who are defeating thestigmas that are attached to us
on a daily basis, because peopleimagine that because we write
creepy things, we ourselves mustbe creepy.
And it turns out that we'rejust normal people.
Alan Baxter (44:12):
We're just average
people who love a little bit of
horror in our lives and moreoften than not, we're the people
who have processed that shitand are least likely to be the
freaks and the weirdos when itcomes to the really dangerous
stuff in real life.
Right, you know?
Yeah, it's like heavy metalmusic and reading horror and
stuff like this.
That doesn't, that's not.
That doesn't make you a psychoand it's not psychos that do
(44:34):
that stuff.
David Viergutz (44:34):
So yeah, I mean
in the, in the last podcast
we're talking, I was talking todan uh, dan franklin, and one
things we talked about is how,like all these serial killers
were prominent members in theircommunities.
You, know, they were well likedand well loved, and and yeah
they smile the right way andeverybody loved them and yeah,
and it.
Alan Baxter (44:51):
They dressed very
neatly and conservatively and
they looked yeah.
David Viergutz (44:54):
Yeah, and then
they got 13 bodies in the
basement and that's it.
Alan Baxter (45:00):
Karen Warren I mean
Karen Warren herself is a
perfect example, because she'san absolutely outstanding horror
writer here in Australia andobviously internationally.
And when you read what shewrites and then you see, meet
the person, it's a disconnect.
It's like how the hell issomeone as lovely, small, you
(45:20):
know, she's like everyone's mumkind of thing and then she
writes this fucked up stuff?
So she's absolutely brilliant.
Everyone should read KarenWarren.
But she also said that, as faras she's concerned, plumbers,
butchers and horror writers areamong the most well-balanced
people in society because theyspend their lives dealing with
blood and shit and guts andeverything else, and so that
(45:42):
stuff isn't inside, it isn'tsort of it isn't kind of
compressed inside.
You let that stuff out, youexplore that stuff, and so you
naturally have a better balancewhen it comes to everyday life,
because you're not kind ofputting that stuff out of mind
all the time, you're addressingit all the time yeah, I like to
believe that we're that thathorror.
David Viergutz (46:02):
Writing itself
is is not only the genre of hope
, but also it's the genre of of,and even though we write about
stuff that is fantastical, it isreal, raw, human fear that is
connecting us as the writers andus as the readers.
The human element of it is fear, and that part it cannot be
(46:27):
made up.
It is just there and inherentin all of us, and when we write
that, we are bringing peoplecloser together by things that
make us more human.
Alan Baxter (46:36):
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
People say why do you readhorror, why do you write horror?
I've often said it's becauseit's the genre of honesty.
Because fiction is escapism, itis made up and a lot of the
time fiction will be hopeful andthe bad guys get defeated, the
good guys win, the guy gets thegirl, the girl gets to go, all
that sort of stuff.
There's all that hope infiction, which is true and it's
(46:57):
good and it's necessary in a lotof the stories we read.
So the thing about horror isthat it's a genre of honesty in
as much as sometimes the dragonwins, sometimes you don't get
the girl, sometimes not everyonesurvives.
That's real life, that we're allvery well aware of, the fact
that terrible shit happens togood people and shit people
(47:19):
enjoy a long, happy life and diein their 90s, never having seen
adversity.
There's a massive injustice inthis.
We recognize that in real lifeand horror tends to address that
kind of injustice and put it ina framework for us to sort of
consider and think about.
And so it's.
It's very much a genre ofhonesty in that respect.
It doesn't turn away when, whenthe alley gets dark, it doesn't
(47:42):
turn back.
David Viergutz (47:44):
I love it.
It doesn't pretend to besomething.
It's not.
That's awesome, that'sexcellent.
Alan, this is it's been a blastman, this is.
This is not the direction Ithought it was like let's talk
about, honestly, this is not thedirection I thought things
would go.
I thought we'd be at 45 minutesto talk about about kangaroos,
but you know what there's moreto us than just kangaroos, yeah
(48:04):
yeah, yeah.
So that's an interestingquestion real quick before we
wrap things up.
Do you identify now as as uh,as an Englishman, or from the UK
or from Australia?
Which one it's?
Alan Baxter (48:14):
interesting because
I'm where is it Maybe?
So I'm just doing a quick bitof maths in my head.
I think in about three yearstime I will have lived for as
long in Australia as I did inthe UK.
There's a few years in themiddle that were a bit blurry
because I was traveling back andforth and all over the place,
(48:41):
but I've pretty much half mylife in each now.
Uh, so I think where you'reborn and where you grow up,
those formative years are alwayslike the foundation of your
character.
So there's a part of me thatwill always be British.
There's a part of me that'salways English.
Um, but I do feel very muchAustralian.
Now I have both passports.
Um, I live in Australia, I livein Tasmania.
That's like I very much sort ofidentify as Australian.
(49:03):
Now I'm.
You know, if someone was born inAustralia and they were 25
years old, there would be noquestion that they were an
Australian, and I've been inAustralia more than 25 years now
.
So, yeah, it's like, yeah, Ifeel very much, but I'm equally
as an immigrant.
You sort of always never onething or the other.
(49:23):
So when I go to, if I go backand visit the UK, I sound
Australian to people and Ihaven't been there for decades,
and there's big news andcelebrities and stuff I just
don't know about because I'm alittle bit out of touch and when
I'm here people hear theEnglish edge in my voice and, um
, you know, like they're like,oh they, they know that I'm
wasn't sort of born in Australia, so you're always sort of an
(49:44):
immigrant and it kind of colors,but I, you know, a lot of that
feeds into the fiction that Iwrite as well.
So, um, but yeah, the honestanswer is, I think, to be honest
, I feel just as much both.
I will always be British frombirth and I am very much
Australian now.
David Viergutz (50:00):
I love it and we
, we have something similar here
.
I'm.
You know I was born and raisedon the East coast, um and I, at
age 18, I joined the army and Igot sent to El Paso and I've
been in Texas now for prettymuch longer than I was on the
East coast, and so you know theycall me a Yankee.
Uh, when they find out from theEast coast and they say well
how long you been in Texas and Itell them how long they're like
okay, you're technically fromTexas, You're fine yeah.
Alan Baxter (50:22):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, before we moved down herewhere we lived previously in in
in country New South Wales,when we moved in there we were
sort of joking with some of thelocals and we were like how long
, how long till we consider thelocal, cause it was a little
country, town, yeah.
And one of the guys was likeyou won't be considered a local
till you've conceived a child onthe banks of the Midamara,
which was the river that likeruns through.
And so when our kid was born,it was like, yes, we're local
(50:47):
now living in Tasmania.
You're never going to beconsidered a local in Tasmania
unless you were born here,because you're always going to
be a mainlander who came over.
David Viergutz (50:57):
A mainlander.
I like it.
Alan Baxter (50:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah,
but I don't mind.
I'm used to being an immigrant,I'm used to being the one
that's sort of I've always beenfrom somewhere else.
I don't mind that, I'm happywith that.
David Viergutz (51:09):
Yeah, and that
makes the world colorful and
that's fine.
Alan Baxter (51:16):
I mean right, it
makes a, makes the world a
wonderful place that we can dothat.
David Viergutz (51:18):
So that's it
excellent, alan.
Thank you.
Thank you for sharing you know.
Thank you for sharing all this.
Thank you for sharing yourthoughts.
Um real quick, just let ourlisteners know where can they
find you?
What books should they pick upfrom yours so they can support
you and really dive into thehorror that we've talked about
today?
Alan Baxter (51:31):
Well, thanks for
having me, it's been good fun.
You can find me.
The easiest place is to starton my website.
It's just my name, alanbaxterA-L-A-N-B-A-X-T-E-R, dot com,
dot A-U.
That's my website and it linksout.
There's a link tree there.
That's all my different socialmedia, but you can find
everything on there about mydifferent books, um, and what's
going on, um.
So everything you need can befound on that website.
(51:54):
Um.
As for reading stuff, if youwant really weird, uh,
australian stories, I've got acouple of collections, two
novella collections, the gulpand the fall, um.
That are all novellas set inand around a fictional
australian town called goldpepper but locals call it the
Goldpepper because it has ahabit of swallowing people and
(52:16):
that's very Australian and veryweird and lots of variety of
different styles of horror.
And my latest novel that Imentioned earlier is Blood
Covenant.
That just came out last week,excuse me, and again that's a
very Australian story, butthat's a good novel-length place
to jump in.
But otherwise, just have a lookon my website.
There's a my Books page andthere's a big sort of graphic on
(52:36):
there that's got all the coversand shows you what I do and
what's there.
So, yeah, have a look around.
David Viergutz (52:42):
Excellent man.
It's been a blast and apleasure and I just want to say
thank you from one side of theworld to the other.
Thank you for your time, thankyou for your insight, thank you
for sharing your joys and yourloves with us.
So that's amazing.
Thank you so much.
No worries, it's been good fun.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
This has been the NightmareEngine podcast with Mr Alan
Baxter.
What a treat today.
(53:03):
Thank you all for listening.
That's it, we're over.
I'm going to sign out.