January 19, 2025 • 46 mins
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After a surprise bout of pneumonia rudely interrupted my vacation, I returned to the Nightmare Engine podcast with renewed energy and a very special guest—Denise Guay, also known as DM Guay—to dive into the wonderfully bizarre world of horror comedy. Denise, whose early influences came from her mother’s unexpected love for humor and scares, shared her expert insights on how movies like Shaun of the Dead and Tucker and Dale vs. Evil masterfully balance laughs with screams. Our lively conversation explores horror comedy not just as a quirky genre mashup, but as the perfect entry point for those hesitant to tackle the full-on frights of traditional horror.
We also reflected on personal boundaries in horror, like my own visceral reaction to body horror and the irrational fears we all carry—yes, even something as mundane as trains. Horror fiction, much like Stephen King’s works, often provides a safe space to confront our deepest anxieties. I even shared a ghostly encounter of my own, a night at the haunted Emily Morgan Hotel where the line between reality and fiction blurred in eerie ways.
From there, the episode takes a wild turn as Denise and I talk about our visit to a Bigfoot convention in Ohio, where the legendary cryptid came to life through art, folklore, and enthusiastic theories. We also explored the parallels between horror storytelling and real-world tech advancements, like Elon Musk’s neural implants, and how these innovations inspire both creativity and ethical dilemmas in the genre.
I wrapped up the episode by inviting listeners to visit my website for more horror storytelling adventures, including my latest project, Scare Mail. Whether you’re a lifelong fan of the genre or just curious to dip your toes into the strange and spooky, this episode promises a delightful mix of humor, fear, and the unknown.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Nightmare Engine
podcast Episode.
I don't know, because I've beenout of this game for a little
bit, but I'm proud to bring youanother episode.
I'm sure I'll figure it outlater.
I am your host, dave Raguse,and I am just recovering from
what was pneumonia for theentire portion of my vacation,
(00:23):
or what was supposed to be myvacation.
So I traveled up to Wisconsinto visit that half of the family
and immediately got sick, andso that was a lot of fun to
watch everybody celebratewithout me.
But you know, coming back tothings, coming back to the
warehouse and to Scare Mill witha kind of rejuvenated now that
I am no longer sick and I amback in my home, we're going to
(00:44):
do what we always do.
We're going to do the thingsthat make us happy, and that
includes this podcast, and soevery single time that I bring
somebody on, I try to look fornew and interesting people who
can bring cool things to thehorror community, stuff that
people wouldn't normally get.
And so today we're going to betalking about something called
horror comedy, and I am going tobotch the official definition
(01:07):
of it because it's not thecircle I tend to be in, but I've
got with me Miss Denise Gay,and she goes by DM Gay.
And she is our horror comedyexpert, and I'm just really
proud to bring her onto the show, and so we can talk a little
bit today.
Denise, how are you?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I'm good.
How are you?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I'm doing all right, I definitely laughed.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
when you think I'm an expert, I'm like expert and
interesting.
I'll try.
I don't want to disappointy'all.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, so I mean, Denise, different circle right,
A little bit different circlethan the.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I mean, you know, I still love you, though, right?
I know we're all horror peoplein our hearts.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
There's just different flavors.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
You know, I love that .
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I love that because everyone loves ice cream, but
vanilla is the best and somepeople like chocolate, so it's
like I mean, in the end we alllove ice cream.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
We're more like the Rainbow Sherbert of horror, like
if we're being an ice cream.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yeah, the horror comedy people.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Okay, you're right, it's not ice cream, I lied the
Superman.
Isn't that what it's called?
The Superman?
That's like red and pink andblue, I don't know.
It's like all the flavors, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So tell our folks.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
What is horror comedy .
Speaker 1 (02:19):
I think it's more interesting to talk about what
led up to horror comedy Justlike what led up to horror for
all of us.
So tell us where this startedwith you.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
All right.
So it started when I was alittle kid.
My mom is a huge horror fan andyou never guessed by looking at
her.
She's like a mild-manneredretired Catholic school teacher.
She was my third grade Catholicschool teacher and she has,
like you know, the little hairhelmet and the puffy paint
sweatshirts with the snowman onhim.
But boy, her favorite movie ismotel hell, you know those are
(02:52):
always the worst so, yeah, Igrew up with like a horror mom
who would drag me to all of theum, all the movies.
Like she dragged me topoltergeist, like you know, to
see it in the theater when I wasin the third grade, I mean
wildly things we wouldn't mostparents wouldn't do today, but I
mean I loved every minute of it.
So, um, we're kind of a familyof jokey people.
(03:12):
So I think that we alwaysleaned more towards the camp,
like the movies that were so badthat they were hilariously bad,
or the movies that weremonsters but there was also like
something funny about them.
So more like Return of theLiving Dead than, say, texas
Chainsaw Massacre, like EvilDead 2, like you know, those
(03:33):
kind of movies.
So I think that's how itstarted.
Like we are people that like tomake jokes and when it comes to
monster movies, like we lovemonster movies but we like the
ones that are campy and the onesthat are a little bit funnier
and the ones that definitelyfall into like the definition
technically of horror comedy.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
So yeah, I think, after like a couple of viewings
of like jason or you know or,stuff with freddy krueger like
I'm like, okay, this is kind ofsilly at this point, but I still
appreciate it for the horror.
Like I remember a young mewatching, you know, seeing
Freddy for the first time and Iwas like terrified.
But now that I like 33, youknow it's kind of silly yeah so
(04:16):
what is?
What is the quintessential?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
like horror comedy movie Like I think like Little
Shop of Horrors.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
That's like the first thing.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Oh yeah, that was definitely, definitely horror
comedy, and I'd say definitelyon the more mild side of horror
comedy, but um, excellentexamples would be like shawn of
the dead or two, or tucker anddale versus evil, um, even I'd
say like the adams family andthe monsters, I mean that's
(04:43):
really how like a lot of peopleend up in horror is when they're
children they find these showsthat are about monsters, but
they're not scary, they're funny, and that becomes sort of the
on-ramp to a lifelong love ofmonsters that may lead them
deeper and deeper into horror.
So horror comedy I woulddescribe as like the on-ramp to
horror fandom.
(05:03):
You know, for people thateither were too young or maybe
they don't realize that theylike horror because they only
think of it as one thing, like alot of people who are normies,
I feel like they hear the wordhorror and they like scowl
because they think it'ssomething like Hostel or Texas
Chainsaw Massacre.
And if you're not into thatflavor of horror you're just
(05:24):
going to automatically think allof it is like that and you're
not going to try any of it.
But when you see somethingthat's like a horror comedy and
it might not be branded orcalled a horror comedy it might
be monster something or you knowsomething like that you would
be more likely to try it.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
So sure we're the waiting pool.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
We're like the shallow end of the pool that
leads into horror.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
So yeah, or they think we're awful people, right,
and we're, we're, we're devilworshipers and we're just, uh,
we, we've got a messed upchildhood and there is um there,
there, there's something wrongwith us, and so, therefore, that
is the only thing that we canfind enjoyment in is the pain of
others, and it's like no, likeyou gotta gotta understand that
what what horror does for folkslike horror is like cheap, safe
(06:07):
thrills.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Like that's it.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Like some people jump out of airplanes, we watch
scary movies like it's nodifference.
I mean it's honestly, horrorwriters.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
they're generally the happiest and most well adjusted
people that I have met, and Ithink it's because, all of us
have already dealt with ourdemons.
So we're all like you know.
We're all cheerful and good.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, the demons are out on the page, exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
It's like we work through our fears, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, so I mean so all time movie monster.
I mean top of the line.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
What is it?
Because?
I mean I'm, I mean any monster,I mean my number one is
Godzilla.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
But that's I mean, that's questionable, I mean as
far as what camp he belongs in.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I mean sci-fi, campy comedy, amazing, yeah, yeah I'll
still watch any godzilla movie,but it seems like I only watch
them like on an airplane.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
You know like I'll never like go look for a
godzilla movie, but you knowwhat really, yeah, yeah, well,
I'll never like go look for aGodzilla movie.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Really.
Yeah, well, I'll have to likechange your ways because, yeah,
there's a lot of really goodones lately.
Godzilla minus one was amazing.
It's like made me cry, likeI've never had like a human
storyline in a Godzilla movie.
Be so fantastic.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
But of course, you know, I love the ones from the
60s and stuff that were allcampy rubber suits, stomping on
tanks.
I mean, yes, yeah, that remindsme of like, um, the shift from
like power rangers, like, if youremember power rangers, it was
like cardboard boxes and stuffand and like the town was just
made out of like you know, likeclay and stuff, like that.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I love that.
I love that stuff so much.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, but then you get the new age stuff yeah then,
you get the new age stuff andit's all cgi and it's more
realistic and it's like I kindof miss the old stuff there's a
place for both.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Definitely a place for both, but he's not really
like a horror monster.
So I think my favorite horrormonsters would be like the
deadites from the evil dead andash versus evil dead.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Like I love them a lot yes, I just watched the um
the newest evil dead um evildead rise I think, was that the
one of?
The apartment complex yes yeah,and so, like with that one, I
was like yeah, this is.
This is old school evil dead.
Like this is exactly what itwas meant to be.
It's meant to be over the topand ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
It's meant to be the minute you saw that wood chipper
in like act one, you're like Iknow it's exactly what's gonna
happen there.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
It's like checkoff's wood chipper like I know that's
gonna show up again at the endof the movie, so yeah, yeah, I
mean just a little bit ofthrowback to like the old evil
dead movies where it was justlike never been seen before.
Can we make it rain blood onthis, on this screen, you know,
and can we get people to enjoyit?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
you know, like kind of the same you know alien.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
For me was that very much that way like the first
alien movie.
I remember like watching thatand I was like this is the
scariest damn thing I've everseen oh yeah, that was before.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
It's like a haunted house movie in space like, where
, like the monsters, they'retrying to get you and you can't
get out.
It's amazing.
Yeah, like event horizon horrormovie 100%.
I got upset by like EventHorizon.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Like Event Horizon upset that for me.
But like I remember watchingthe alien movies and then like,
as new ones came out, I didn'tcare if it was like new alien,
if it was like, oh, this is likeSpace Marines versus the aliens
, or it's like uh all.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I wanted.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
All I cared about was the fact that it was alien and
so like when the newest aliencame out and it was like super,
like nostalgic right I don't, Idon't remember the name of is it
romulus?
yeah, and it was all thethrowbacks right and all the fan
service, like I think that'swhat I love a lot about the
horror community is that, likethere were a whole bunch on
occasion.
(09:39):
There will be staples right.
There will be things that justkind of stick with us that we
love, and then somebody alongthe lines will design something
and create something that justgives service back to that thing
, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
It's.
It kind of reminds me of, likehow they're doing with the
Terrifier movies.
Are you familiar with those?
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Oh, yes, yes yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
And with, with the Terrifier movies.
It's just the same thing everysingle time.
There's no, there's no crazystoryline, it's.
It's just over the topridiculous.
Just like the first one.
So like the hard, community isvery good at giving you exactly
what you're looking for, sothat's amazing.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I love it yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
And so that's why I say we're like we are probably
one of the coolest bunch outthere compared to, you know,
some other, some other types offans.
So let's, let's talk a littlebit about about the books, right
, and and about, and aboutreading.
Like what, did you grow upreading a lot of horror books,
or were you, or is that kind ofsomething you picked up along?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
the way.
Well, you know, once again I'mgoing to blame my mom, because,
you know, we lived in the middleof nowhere, so going to the
library was like a specialoccasion.
But the few books that we didown, that we had in the house,
were all my mom's, and everysingle one of them was Stephen
King, of course, because it wasthe 80s and that was when you
know.
So it was like a whole bookcasefull of Stephen King, I think.
Like my dad had one book and itwas like some history book like
(10:59):
Arms of Croppp, and thateverything else was like Stephen
King.
So it was all monsters in myhouse all the time.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
And and and?
What did she talk to you aboutwhen she, when she, like, when
she saw you were reading those,did she?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
mention anything, she was just.
You know, she was happy, I wasreading, I wasn't watching TV.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah.
Yeah, I've got an old, worncopy of, I think, salem's lot.
I think that was my probably myfirst introduction to Stephen
King.
Like like Stephen King, like inbetween cocaine bitches, was
like really good.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
God bless him, though I mean, yeah, he wasn't a
boring writer like us.
He was out partying and tryingto live it up, and he survived
it, so it's all right.
It's all right, yeah, I meanand, and he survived it, so it's
all right, it's all right.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yeah, I mean, and the interviews are pretty, it's
like, it's pretty awesome, LikeI wish that one day.
He's like so you know, mr King,like where do you get your
inspiration?
He goes cocaine, a lot ofcocaine.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I mean it got us maximum overdrive, and I don't
care what people say, I lovethat movie.
So See and people hatedChristine.
I love Christine for that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah, so yeah, I still have that song stuck in my
head Um the song the radiowould play.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Um, now you're going to get it stuck in my head.
You can stop right now.
Don't, don't give me an earworm.
I'm going to play it.
No, no, yeah, but no it'sthat's um no, that's something.
That's something about horror.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
And I and I asked this kind of this, this question
pretty much pretty much everytime but you're a horror writer.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
You've been around horror, so what scares you then?
There are a few things that Ican't do in horror.
Where my lines are and mylimits.
And one of them is body horror.
Okay, and that's a recent thingbecause of my own medical
things, where I was like, justright now, emotionally I can't
do body horror.
So like everybody was ravingabout the substance and part of
me wanted to see it but I didn'tbecause I was like, oh, I know
it's body horror and I justdon't know if I'm in the space
for it, like right now it's likea little too close to home.
(13:02):
And the other thing is like Ican't stand when, like, bad
things happen to little kids youknow, like what was that spider
movie that just came out like,where it was like some space
spider and the chick the littlegirl was raising in her room and
it was getting bigger andbigger staying or something and
I was like as soon as I saw thebaby and I was like, no,
something bad's gonna happen tothat baby, so I'm not gonna
(13:22):
movie.
So it's like those are thethings that I just can't do.
It's just like a little tooemotional for me.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Sting was very much like eight-legged freaks.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Was it.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
It felt like that, I think you would.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
I think you'd probably enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
So it was campy but I was still like the part to the
baby so those are the thingsthat that bother me.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
I don't know that I'd say scare, but you know, it's
like once you face death, likepersonally, like up close.
It's like everything's inperspective.
So things that scare otherpeople might not scare you as
much sure so I feel like that'swhere I am.
It's like there are limits ofthings that make me
uncomfortable, but I don't knowabout actually being scared,
because it's like I've been tothe point where everything and
(14:08):
all hope is lost so I don't know, it takes a lot, probably, to
actually scare scare me, andmaybe I don't know what that is.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
So yeah, yeah, I think that I think a lot of
people like can find a littlebit of safety in in horror, like
, oh yeah, it's a safe scare,it's like you feel all those
feelings and you and you oh, Imean how many of us like we
watch a movie or reread a bookand we're like, well, what would
I do?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
like we're working through what we would do in that
situation.
So it's almost like trainingfor real world trauma and horror
and disaster and crisis,because you know that's what you
do.
It's like it's a safe way towork through those feelings and
ask yourself, like what would Ido?
Would I do the same dumb thingsas this character, or would I
do this or that?
So it's almost like workingthrough a plan for real world
crisis.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
So yeah, and I don't know how many times that I've
been like, well, you just take ashortcut and then, like, think
back.
I'm like, yeah, I'm in themiddle of a horror movie right
now, like I think, I think thatall the time.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I'm like yeah, this is how this horror movie begins.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Like let's split up, yeah, recover more ground, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yeah, I will never ask my friends to split up.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, yeah, so my my big.
Thing is trains.
I'm like locomotives.
It's an irrational fear.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
It fear doesn't make any sense.
I'm fine on the metro, but likesome big, like coal-powered
thing, like I don't wantanything to do with it, like how
often do we get to go on?
Speaker 1 (15:32):
big coal-powered things like here in the us.
For me never, yeah, we neverget there also be never like so,
um, you know, and I thinkthere's, and I think real horror
is kind of kind of.
Something that creeps me outtoo is like I've I've been to.
You know I've been intobuildings with chasing after
guys with guns and I've been.
You know fights in my life andthat sort of thing and and you
know fighting guys with knivesand like I don't.
(15:52):
I've done all that, but like onetime.
So when this is my wife.
When she was, when she waswooing me, when we first started
dating, she took me to theEmily in san antonio, without
ever telling me the historybehind the emily morgan hotel
let me guess is it haunted?
Extremely, extremely.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
I like her already see, I knew I liked her she took
you to a haunted hotel duringduring your wooing.
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, and all of that was overshadowed, what was not
even something that like stuckwith me until like.
Until we realized, like shepaid for the, the floor that is
the most haunted, which is like.
We stay on the 12th floor it'sactually the 13th floor and then
like or is it still?
But it was the 14th floor isactually, however, that works.
And then like you know, she gotlike there's bottle service.
(16:41):
And then there was, they hadcarriage rides around like with
the horse-drawn carriage and solike all this stuff was
happening.
Then she was like oh, by theway, here's where we stayed, and
I'm like no no, and so and andfrom from a horror writer like I
don't want anything to do withthis, you know, like I can deal
with the guy with a gun, butlike ghosts, like I can't shoot
(17:01):
the ghost, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
So the ghosts.
I have a ghost story, since wewere just together in Las Vegas
at the horseshoe, so I forgetwhat floor I was on yes, I did
not know.
Supposedly it's one of the mosthaunted places in Las Vegas and
I only asked that.
I only tell you this because myroomie and I in Vegas, at the
horseshoe, like one morning wewoke up we both had these big
scratches on our hands and wecouldn't figure out where we had
(17:25):
gotten them because we don'tremember it happening the night
before and we were like sittingin the bar area with other
authors and we were like we gotthese weird scratches.
And then my roommate was likeyeah, I thought you came home
last night because I heardvoices and footsteps and I
looked up and you weren't there.
You weren't home yet.
Home last night because I heardvoices and footsteps and I
(17:45):
looked up and you weren't there.
You weren't home yet.
And of course, our friend looksat us and he's like well, it's
because this is like the mosthaunted hotel in Las Vegas.
And I was like what?
And he's like you've got ghostsin your room and they were
scratching you.
I was like do not tell me thison night two and I've got to be
here for four more nights.
Like what do you do?
Like this isn't helping me.
And he's like well, I'm tryingto save your life.
I'm like what am I gonna doagainst a ghost?
yeah, what the heck yeah, so,and I'm like I'm not normally
(18:09):
like a ghosty kind of person,but I was, like you know, a
little bit on edge after thatwith the scratches on my hand
and the weird voices, so I don'tknow who's it?
Haunted by by some apparentlythere was a fire there where a
bunch of people died, like inthe 80s, I don't know, like a
mobster or something, I don'tknow.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I just think like you know, somebody in a suit with a
Tommy gun, like that's what Ithink of, like haunting the
place.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Well, I'm just recounting what happened, you
know we were there.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
So yeah, well, great.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Sorry, I shouldn't have told you Now I know that.
Um, you were not in a goodstate when I saw you because
right after so you did notrecount the whole tale.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
No, yeah Well, I've been saving this story for the
podcast because all right, tellme.
So so, first off, it is anassault on the senses there.
It is nuts, like there's somuch going on, like there's
bells and whistles and soundeffects and all these things
coming from all these doodadsthat are all moving and doing
stuff and then they pump arethey haunted doodads?
(19:15):
I don't know, like they hadweird stuff don't get me wrong
and like I think it was anassault on the senses on purpose
.
So what they did was like itfelt like the floor was uneven
in certain areas and that waskind of like a mystery house.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Have you ever been to one of those, the mystery
houses?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
yeah tourist attractions okay yeah and so
like, but then they cram abouteight people into this tiny
little room, so they've gotclaustrophobia and it's really
hot.
And then they've got smoke likethat they're pumping in the
other.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
I thought it was like .
I thought it was like a barrestaurant that you walked
through and saw like that's whatI thought.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I thought it was like a 20 minute, like walkthrough.
No, it was a three hourexcursion oh my god, yeah and so
at one point in time, like theybring us into this, like make
believe, make makeshift chapel,and they play a live exorcism
that happened, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
And then like you couldn't like leave, you had to
go room to room with the samegroup of people.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yes, oh, my gosh Experiencing.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I love you, but I'm almost like glad that I missed
it now.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Love, almost like glad that I missed it.
Now, yeah, love you guys.
This sounds intense, yeah it,it can be, and so like we paid
for the vip passes too, so likeanyways, so anyways.
So like, in this room wasapparently this box, and this
box is where the demon wasimprisoned from this exorcism
and they had it on display, andthat's kind of the flavor of
what did you like knock it overand it like fell open, and now
you're haunted.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
No, I no, I was already not doing so.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Hot okay like I was already not doing so hot, like
my back was like torqued at thispoint.
But then they were like here'sa creepy hole, anybody want to
climb through it?
Like it's in the side of thehall, like in the side of the
building.
Like climb through it into thenext room and we'll see you
there.
And I'm like did you have to.
You don't have an option it wasoptional and I was like no like
(20:55):
you see into the creepy hole.
No, it's completely black, likeit's and and they said it's
black, but they said there'salso mirrors in there.
I'm like so why is it blackthen, if there's mirrors?
So none of us like they're liketwo people that went and did it
you know.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
anyways they say did you give them?
They them, they were fine, theycame through like they came
through on the other end.
It was just a hole like just toyou know, it was just a hole,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Boo yeah.
And so we're like going torooms and like one of them was
like here's the cauldron that EdGein like boiled a bunch of
people in.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
And I'm like they had it in the building and like I'm
like, okay, like we got some,they're making like a sensory
experience around theseartifacts from real, like that
they found that are hauntedbecause just looking at the box
with the demon, and it wouldn'tbe as exciting as listening to
the soundtrack of the exorcism.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
All right, I get it exactly and in the meantime,
they're pumping different smellsinto each room, right?
So like the smell changes basedon where you go, and then the
lighting changes and then thefloors feel uneven than the
temperature changes, and so allof this is happening to you in
the meantime, like you had to,like say this like oath, like I
understand if I am haunted, thatis not, you know, zach Bagans
responsibility, like really getyou in the mood, you know.
(22:05):
So all this is happening Rightand at this point we're about to
go into the demon basement andyou had to pay for the VIP
passes to get into the demonbasement, where they actually
did sacrifice children in thisbasement of this mansion and
like all I can see in front ofme is like the deep hole into
the basement.
But above that, all I can seeis my logo.
(22:25):
It's got my logo.
It was like a pair of skeletonhands holding my skeleton logo
thing, like I'm like.
I don't know if it's my logo,you know.
That's all I could focus on.
But my back is so bad that I'mlike I tell my wife, I'm like
baby, I'm not going to be ableto make it Like you're going to
have to go without me.
(22:52):
I've got to go or I'm going toend up in the hospital.
Like my legs stopped to workand so I fall out.
And at that point they wouldzag back as they had me on
freaking camera falling out,thinking like I passed out or
something from possession orsomething.
I'm like I'm not doing this andso I told my wife, I'm like baby
, I'm, I gotta go she's likewell, I want to stay, I'm like
you can stay, and so I tell theguy I'm like ma'am, I'm like I
need to go out, and she goes.
Are you experiencing something?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
God, no, my back is killing me.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Don't flatter yourself.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, and so like I'm staring down, like I had to
like kind of talk into her earand so she was over my shoulder,
like so I could because it wasreally loud, and over her
shoulder I'm looking down thelong hallway we just came from
and I see a full on apparitionof a little girl in a big flowy
dress with pigtails.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
She's waving at me like this and you're all upset
about my hand scratches at thehotel we were sleeping in.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Is it because it's where you were sleeping and you
couldn't get away?
Yeah, and I'm like well,obviously and this is the
thought process that wentthrough my head Obviously I'm in
a scary movie.
If I just look away and I lookback, it'll be gone.
No, she'll be right there.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
So I look away and I look back.
It'll be gone, no, she'll beright there.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
So I look away, I look back and she's two feet
closer yes, that's exactly whathappens in the scary movies.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
You should know that.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Come on and so by this point my eyes are like this
right, and she starts leadingme out and they find me a chair
and they're like so I heard you,uh, the guard outside.
He's like so I heard youexperiencing something.
And I'm like, no, I asked him.
I said hey, is there some shitin that house like some
projectors and stuff like that?
He's like why did youexperience something?
I'm like no, my back is killingme, but I may have seen some
(24:21):
shit on my way out.
I gotta know, is there aprojector?
And he goes how could they beprojected?
There's so much smoke in thisbuilding from the, from the
smoke machines, that like itwould show all the rays of the
projector.
And so I was like so is that isthat?
um, I was like I'm starting tohave a crisis at this point and
I'm like I saw some shit, like Iand you left your wife in there
(24:43):
yeah, yeah, I left her there.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
We still love you, though, because she's okay, she
made it okay she's, she's justas hot as I am.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
She does all kinds of creepy shit.
So like I'm like, oh, so I'mlike having an existential
crisis.
And they call the manager outand they're like, hey, can,
would you mind going recordingto talk about what you saw?
And I was like, no, I'm likethere's no way.
And they're like, and I waslike can you pull the footage so
I can see if there was somebodyor something there?
He goes oh, yeah, you'll see itlater.
(25:11):
I'm like when's that?
And he's like, well, when Ipull the footage and I put it
all over social media, I'm likegreat.
And so like I'm sitting downhere for another half hour and
going through this crisis.
And and he's like, yeah, so itsounds like um doesn't want to
hang out in that hallway.
She hangs out in this hallway,in this corner.
So that's really weird that yousaw her there.
(25:31):
And I'm like, okay, so theguide comes out eventually, the
one that I said, hey, I gotta go.
And she, I was like, hey, wasthere something going on in that
hallway?
She's like what'd you see?
And I'm like, no, you tell mewhat was going on in that
hallway.
She's like well, I saw likestraight on apparition, like oh,
really.
(25:51):
I was like, yeah, I was likethis looks like this, like this,
like this, and and she said itwas Tabitha.
He was like she was like oh, um, no, actually that was.
That was, uh, abigail.
And Abigail is one of ouremployees and I was like, wait,
what?
And she was like, yeah, what'dyou see?
And I was like little girl,pigtails, big flowy dress,
shadow waving at me.
(26:12):
She's like, yeah, that wasAbigail ushering you, but you
didn't want to follow her.
You followed me, and so allthey're going to see is me on
camera tweaking out, thinkingI'm seeing a ghost, and all I
got is this poor employee tryingto help me.
And so Abigail comes out andshe's four foot five and she's
wearing a dress and she's gotpigtails, and it's an even
(26:33):
better story.
It's amazing oh my god holy Igot scratches on my hand from a
real ghost yeah, no, like if Ihad scratches on me, they were
probably self-induced from myown paranoia, like it was that's
hilarious.
That's hilarious yeah, so Ihaunted myself at zapp baggins's
museum.
But for anybody, you get achance to go to vegas.
It is an assault on the senses.
It is pretty creepy.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Yeah, it sounds like um, like a really well done
haunted haunted house like you'dgo through halloween.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
You know, maybe just a little bit more well done
theatrically so yeah, but Ithink if you, if you understand
who zach baggins is like, if yousee his episodes of the tv show
and stuff, you can feel that inthe house Okay.
You know, it's like he goes.
I have a Zach Bagans impression.
He's like I'm talking to thespirits in the house right now,
(27:21):
If you can hear me tap on myface like that's what it very
much feels like there at theplace, Like it feels like Zach
Bagans is creation so verytheatrical, you know know
whether or not that was.
They had weird stuff.
they had like charles manson's,like sock from prison, like
weird shit like I guess you getwhat you can get, right, that's
(27:43):
what I'm saying I'm like, likethey only had one haunted doll
but for whatever reason they hada wall of dolls and the one
haunted doll in the middle ofthe the wall like I'm okay, like
you know, but I don't know itwas it was a lot of fun.
I mean the same thing with youknow.
Stuff like that.
It is fun, you know, even ifyou get scared, right.
(28:03):
I mean, isn't that kind of thepoint?
Speaker 2 (28:05):
I mean that being scared is the fun part yeah
because in theory it's safe, butyou can also be scared.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
So or get scratched.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Yeah well, I didn't know that there was a ghost
thing.
I just woke up with like what?
What happened?
Speaker 1 (28:19):
I didn't have that much to drink last night yeah,
well, it always reminds me oflike like you see the ghost
stories and like it's alwayslike minor stuff, like scratches
and stuff like that, or maybesomething feels like they got
shoved, but like then you, it'slike the complete opposite of
like, let's say, like thecryptid hunters, where, like
they get a picture of bigfootand it's just taken with a
potato and you're like you'retelling me with all the
(28:41):
technology on the planet and allyou got is this blurry blob and
that's.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
God bless the bigfoot fans though they're.
They're amazing.
There's a big bigfoot umconvention in ohio at a place
called salt fork state parklodge where there's been a lot
of sightings.
And if you go to the um, therestaurant there, they have
bigfoot themed sandwiches anddesserts like they have like a
big bigfoot cookie in your, inyour, like dessert sundae and
stuff.
(29:07):
But they have a big thing thereand they have the best um art
fair there because it's allbigfoot encrypted themed
crafters, like, so like theselittle old ladies and guys like
who do wood carvings withchainsaws come out of the woods
and like have these awesome likebigfoot and mothman, like like
art for sale.
It's like just the most amazing,amazing experience.
(29:29):
And then they have these veryserious, very like you know,
well thought out like peoplegive presentations about bigfoot
and where they think that he isand where they think that he's
living and the going theory whenI was there is that the bigfoot
is living in the cave systemsand like rural ohio and west
virginia and like coming outlike grabbing campers or
(29:50):
whatever.
And I'm like I mean, you mean,you know, if you've seen the
Descent.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I mean you know, oh, my God, Awesome Speaking of the
Descent like.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Not a comedy, by the way.
Not a comedy, no, not a comedy.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Yeah, If you ever find yourself like you know what
you should start doing,Spelunking Like who on earth?
Speaker 2 (30:11):
That might be one thing I'm scared of.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Boom, like head, pop off the pillow, like, yeah,
let's go in this cave, let's dothis, let's see if we can get
stuck.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Yeah, when you go to like Mammoth Cave and places
like that in Kentucky, they haveall these plaques and like
stories about the guys becausethere was like a caving rush and
like if you were a poor guy inkentucky and you were trying to
cash in on your land, like theywould find a hole and like try
to discover in the next mammothcave and half of them like died
in there when they got stuck youknow, because they were
(30:42):
exploring and they're just, Imean, it's a cave there's, it's
unpredictable and it's tiny.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
I mean, oh, that just sounds awful terrible that
might be my fear right thereyeah, a couple of places that
I'm just like no you know, likelike a couple things that I'm
like, no, like, like like theelon musk's neuro implant and
I'm like he says, he says itcould literally cure paralysis,
(31:10):
but you got to inject thismicrochip into your brain.
I'm like, has anybody seenevery scary movie out there?
Speaker 2 (31:17):
this is like literally every 80s, like sci-fi
movie, like yeah, it never endswell.
But it's also like, I mean, ifyou're desperate and you get to
the point where you feel likeyou have nothing to lose, which
is also how these movies go andhow these stories go, I mean, I
could see how people would sayyes.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Yeah, that's why I love horror, because it's like a
well-written book orwell-created movie.
That's horror.
It would almost make you sayfor the characters like, yeah,
I'd probably do that too.
Yeah, you know Like justprobably do that, not even like
I would do that too.
Yeah, you know, like it justprobably do that not even like.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
I would do that like yeah, you just have to
understand why they make thechoices they make.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I mean, if it's character driven horror, so yeah
and that's, and sometimes thatyeah, that's exactly right, and
sometimes you don't even needthat right.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
You're like you know they're gonna mess up you know
they're gonna make a mistake,because they have to well, they
have to, or else the movie wouldbe over or the book would be
over in five five minutes.
The smart people don't make forgood movies or books because
the good decision and it's overbefore the horror starts.
So they have to make baddecisions to keep the plot going
in horror yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
And so you keep using this word, campy, and keeps
coming back to me because I wantto talk about your books.
How do you write campiness intoa book?
Speaker 2 (32:38):
That is a really good question, because it's also the
question of, like, how do youwrite comedy?
And this is something that I'vetalked a lot about with other
comedy writers.
People think that you're justwriting jokes but you're not
really writing jokes, think thatyou're just writing jokes but
you're not really writing jokes.
The comedy comes from, like,the disconnect between what
people think is going to happenversus what actually happens.
(32:59):
So I don't think that it'swriting jokes.
I think that it's writingsituations that get, you know
that just get more and moreridiculous, and then the
character you know is reactingto, you know, the ridiculousness
of the situation versus whatthey expected was going to
happen.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
So yeah, so there's gotta be a lot of sarcasm uh,
yeah, I'd say so like I.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I mean, I think that's how horror works too.
Is that like it's?
The horror happens when there'show you think your life is
going to go versus how itactually goes, and it goes off
the rails, and then comedy isthe same.
So when you mix those twothings together, you can get
pretty good story so, and do youput more of a focus on the
horror, do you?
Um.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
I'm my current series um 24 7.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Demon mart is definitely more on the comedy
than the horror.
So there are monsters, butthere's always a happy ending.
So that's not to say that inthe future things will not be
more towards the horror.
So, but for now it's moretowards the comedy.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Okay, so that's the first time I've heard in a long
time like this is horror, andthere will always be a happy
ending.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, I write horror with happy ending, and that's
where the comedy is.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
So that's interesting , so that that to me tells me
like, especially for a lot offolks who are just been burned
by horror you know, somebodywho's like there may not be,
they may be exploring hard andlike, yeah, I thought you know,
watching a scary movie would bekind of cool and be the type to
(34:37):
watch through their fingers type, but then somebody introduces
them into something that that isjust like not their vein, and
so they just like oh, I don'tever want to consider horror
ever again.
Like like I'm, I'm very much afan of like saw, but I'm not a
fan of like hostile, which waslike bad saw yeah, I mean, that
was just like a torture porn isthe subgenre.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
So which is different ?
Which hey to each his own.
You know like, well, there isthis meme that went around that
I saved because I thought it wasgenius, and it was like normies
versus mutants, mutants beingthe horror fans like normies and
they see horror and they justsee one thing and it's one dot
that says horror, and thenthere's the horror fan on the
other side who sees horror, andthen there's the horror fan on
the other side who sees horrorand it was like 50 different
(35:11):
things and it was all the subgenres.
You know, yeah, it was like oh,exploitation, horror comedy,
like psychological horror, folkhorror, you know those kind of
things it's like.
If you're a horror fan already,you know that there's infinite
flavors of horror and we allhave our preferences about what
flavors we do and don't like.
But a lot of people who are nothorror fans just think horror
(35:33):
and they think of one thing, youknow, and they can stop if the
first thing they experience issomething that you know is not
to their liking or makes themuncomfortable, because they
don't realize that there's morenuance and there's more out
there to horror.
There are subgenres they mightactually like and, um, you know,
when I say horror comedy is anon-ramp for people who who might
(35:54):
not otherwise try horror.
That's totally been true in myexperience.
Like a lot of my readers, theydon't read horror.
I mean, they're reading mystuff.
They don't realize they'rereading horror.
They never would haveidentified it as horror, but
like in their brain they're likeoh no, I see horror and I just
just I keep going, I move awaybecause I know I'm not
interested in that.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
So, but they still read my stuff.
So I get a lot of people thataren't don't consider themselves
horror readers, but they aredrawn into the story because
it's you know, it's lighter andit's funnier and it's you know,
it's monsters, but it's fun andthere's a happy ending and
characters that they can laughwith.
But I'm like well you know, Ijust brought you into horror.
You may call it something else,but that's what this is.
(36:35):
So and it's kind of opened a newworld of reading for them,
because I'm like well, if youlike my stuff, there's these
other people that you could trythat are also.
You know, read on that line,you know that you might like so
yeah, I mean, that's and that'salways the.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
The conversation I have with people is like I used
to be kind of bashful about whatI write and and and try to kind
of dance around.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Well, yeah, I mean because when people ask you and
you can tell by looking themthat they're not horror people
you know how they're going toreact.
If they're like oh, what do youwrite?
And they think you're going tosay like oh, romance.
Or you know mystery, cozy.
And you say horror and they'relike oh, they get that.
Look on their face.
You know, we've all been there.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, and it's so amazing too, Like if you go to
like like I do.
I used to do farmer's markets alot when.
I had a lot of time and I wouldhave people like I don't read
horror, but I love your covers.
Can you?
Can you talk to me about it?
I'm like, if you never, do younot like horror?
Or do you, did you not likesomething horror that you were
at experience?
And it's normally like therewas something I experienced and
(37:36):
since then I haven't reallyliked it.
I'm like perfect, my stuff isperfect for you because I'm like
I am.
I am the every man's horror guy, like I'm the average, like
right in the middle, not likenot on the extreme end and
definitely not on the cozy end.
I'm as mainstream as I as I canbe to reach the most amount of
people, and most people likemainstream horror.
(37:56):
What they don't like is to saythey don't want to be blindsided
by the torture port.
They don't want to be blindsidedby you know, certain certain
fears, fears like you have a lotof folks who are like I'll read
any book as long as it doesn'thave like animal abuse in it and
so you know, I mean, I canunderstand, like trigger words
or that sort of thing for tryingto find what you're looking for
(38:17):
, but like as also from like anauthor's perspective, like we
need to be clear about what,what kind of horror we're
writing, like are you and thatcomes from you know, of course,
from the covers that we pick andalso about the, the blurbs that
we pick.
But, like there's aresponsibility that I feel like
I have with with my readers togive them the thing that they
asked for and to give them thething that I promised with the
(38:39):
book and the cover of the storyand not slip something crazy in
there that they're not expectingyeah, definitely, definitely so
, like what?
What are the promises you makewith your writing?
Like what do you?
That's a hard question, readersI mean really what I?
Speaker 2 (38:54):
I mean, when I started 24 7 demon mart, I just
wrote the kind of horror that Ilike, the kind of monsters that
I like, and I thought I was justlike a crazy person, like
laughing alone in my basementand I was like this is either
brilliant or like I'm justreally that dumb.
So but then when it was out inthe world, like people really
liked it and responded to it andI was like, oh, so I mean I
write the kind of things that Ilike.
(39:15):
I it's kind of like Evil Dead 2, ash versus Evil Dead, you know
, kind of mixed in with Clerks,since it's set in like a
convenience store.
It's like, um, yeah, so I justmake sure that people know that
it's like you know from thecovers and and from the
descriptions what kind of storythey're going to get, that it's
going to be a little bitridiculous and silly and it's
(39:38):
got monsters in it and probablysome blood and guts and you know
.
But it's all going to work outall right in the end.
So they're safe with me.
So yeah, and that's, and that'salways fun, I mean it's, it's,
it's so fun to say like, I thinkthere's an opportunity for you
to fall in love with somethingyou may have fallen out of love
(40:00):
with at one point, and so youcan yeah, yeah, I think that in
the beginning in my mind it wasso clearly horror comedy because
it was very much like Evil Deadinspired.
It was like clear to me but itwasn't clear to the people that
were picking it up and readingit, so that was a surprise to me
that they weren't horror fans.
So I was like, oh okay.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
So where do you find your demographic is Like who?
Who's the average person?
That are picking these up.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
It depends, like, um, I have people all all over the
spectrum and I'm pretty evenlysplit between um men and women.
Um, my readers in ebook areprobably like skew, like older,
like forties and and up, but myaudio and paper readers are
probably under 40, a lot of them, particularly audiobooks.
(40:50):
Um, which was one of theinteresting things about going
to live um shows and meetingreaders and listeners, which is
absolutely amazing like so manyyoung people were listening to
the audiobooks, you know.
So, yeah, I'm all over theplace.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Like I can't pin it down to like one particular
group, so yeah, I mean I find mymost of my readers are pretty
much 30 to 35 plus women I meanthat's generally most of them
really I I'm like, I mean I'mprobably 50 to 60 percent men.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
So interesting.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
They probably love that comedy element, you know,
and and like Shaun of the Deadand, like you said, like Clerks
as a reference, like those arevery much movies that men would
enjoy, you know.
So I could see that, you know,and even from the title on 24-7
Demon Martyr, I'm like that doessound like exactly in my head
what I would imagine horrorcomedy to be, and so I'm like
yeah, I'd pick something likethat up and I'm 33 and I'm a man
(41:44):
, so like yeah, so that'sinteresting.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, I'd pick something like that up, and I'm
33 and I'm a man, so that'sinteresting.
You're so young, I'm going topinch your cheeks.
You're so young.
Yeah, I know I don't sound likeit.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Yeah, but very cool, very cool.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
I love these types of Well, it's funny you ask about
Promises because I wrote like astandalone short story and it
was like a granny horror storyand it was like a granny horror
comedy and it did not have happyending.
Like the main character did notmake it to the end, and so many
of my existing readers who arelike wrote me notes like, really
, like, really, she didn't makeit to the end, like, really,
like she's, she's dead.
(42:19):
Cause I was like I guess Ididn't realize that I was giving
you happy endings whereeverybody makes it to the end,
you know, until I didn't, andeverybody was like how could you
do this today?
Speaker 1 (42:28):
he was like okay, so all right note to self yeah, you
talked about granny like thisis you only got a couple minutes
left, but talk about like, uh,granny, stuff.
I've got this story in my headthat's based on a, on a single
tagline that like I startedwriting dark fantasy before I
was right.
I was writing horror, but mydark fantasy was so dark but it
was like, hey, you gotta writehorror um and so like dark
(42:50):
fantasy, yeah, yeah, and so likethis, this this tagline has
been stuck in my head that'sgrandma's got a battle axe and
I'm like we need like a witcher,but like an old lady, it was a
granny, yeah but yeah, so that'sI'm definitely leaning towards
grannies.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Like I'm sneaking grannies in a lot of my side
projects these days, like I'mworking on like a christmas um
horror comedy for 2025 and I waslike all of a sudden the
grannies are showing up and I'mlike I wasn't in the original
plan, but you know yeah, it'snot the final girl anymore, so
it's the final grannies.
Yeah, yeah, they've got it allfigured out the grandmas so yeah
(43:29):
, oh, very cool.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Hey, um, denise, we're close on time here.
I I really appreciate bringingyou on and this has been awesome
.
It's so much fun to just goback and forth on the things
that make horror fun andinteresting.
Um, so, just real quick,shamelessly, where can people
find you?
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Well, 24-7, demon Mart is on Amazon and an audio
book on Audible with the amazingTodd Haberkorn, who is an anime
actor, as the narrator.
My website is dmgaycom, andthat's D-M-G-U-A-Y, just because
I like to make thingscomplicated and I'm French.
So if you Google me, I'm French.
(44:07):
So, yeah, so if you Google me,I'm pretty much the only one who
shows up.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
So perfect, awesome.
24-7 DMR.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Got it All right.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Yeah, thanks for having me on.
Ladies and gentlemen, this hasbeen the Nightmare Engine
podcast episode.
I don't know, but I'm back inthe swing of things.
I'm signing off for tonight.
Next week we'll have anotherguest and we'll be just moving
things along steadily, as always.
You can find me atdavidvergutscom.
I ask you to go to my website,please please do not go to
Amazon.
There you can find Scare Mailand soon to be, the upcoming
Scare Mail 2, which has reallytaken over and revolutionized
(44:40):
what horror is and what we cando with good storytelling.
So, ladies and gentlemen, thankyou for your.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Nightmare Engine
podcast Episode.
I don't know, because I've beenout of this game for a little
bit, but I'm proud to bring youanother episode.
I'm sure I'll figure it outlater.
I am your host, dave Raguse,and I am just recovering from
what was pneumonia for theentire portion of my vacation,
(00:23):
or what was supposed to be myvacation.
So I traveled up to Wisconsinto visit that half of the family
and immediately got sick, andso that was a lot of fun to
watch everybody celebratewithout me.
But you know, coming back tothings, coming back to the
warehouse and to Scare Mill witha kind of rejuvenated now that
I am no longer sick and I amback in my home, we're going to
(00:44):
do what we always do.
We're going to do the thingsthat make us happy, and that
includes this podcast, and soevery single time that I bring
somebody on, I try to look fornew and interesting people who
can bring cool things to thehorror community, stuff that
people wouldn't normally get.
And so today we're going to betalking about something called
horror comedy, and I am going tobotch the official definition
(01:07):
of it because it's not thecircle I tend to be in, but I've
got with me Miss Denise Gay,and she goes by DM Gay.
And she is our horror comedyexpert, and I'm just really
proud to bring her onto the show, and so we can talk a little
bit today.
Denise, how are you?
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I'm good.
How are you?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I'm doing all right, I definitely laughed.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
when you think I'm an expert, I'm like expert and
interesting.
I'll try.
I don't want to disappointy'all.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Yeah, so I mean, Denise, different circle right,
A little bit different circlethan the.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I mean, you know, I still love you, though, right?
I know we're all horror peoplein our hearts.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
There's just different flavors.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
You know, I love that .
Speaker 1 (01:50):
I love that because everyone loves ice cream, but
vanilla is the best and somepeople like chocolate, so it's
like I mean, in the end we alllove ice cream.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
We're more like the Rainbow Sherbert of horror, like
if we're being an ice cream.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yeah, the horror comedy people.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Okay, you're right, it's not ice cream, I lied the
Superman.
Isn't that what it's called?
The Superman?
That's like red and pink andblue, I don't know.
It's like all the flavors, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
So tell our folks.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
What is horror comedy .
Speaker 1 (02:19):
I think it's more interesting to talk about what
led up to horror comedy Justlike what led up to horror for
all of us.
So tell us where this startedwith you.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
All right.
So it started when I was alittle kid.
My mom is a huge horror fan andyou never guessed by looking at
her.
She's like a mild-manneredretired Catholic school teacher.
She was my third grade Catholicschool teacher and she has,
like you know, the little hairhelmet and the puffy paint
sweatshirts with the snowman onhim.
But boy, her favorite movie ismotel hell, you know those are
(02:52):
always the worst so, yeah, Igrew up with like a horror mom
who would drag me to all of theum, all the movies.
Like she dragged me topoltergeist, like you know, to
see it in the theater when I wasin the third grade, I mean
wildly things we wouldn't mostparents wouldn't do today, but I
mean I loved every minute of it.
So, um, we're kind of a familyof jokey people.
(03:12):
So I think that we alwaysleaned more towards the camp,
like the movies that were so badthat they were hilariously bad,
or the movies that weremonsters but there was also like
something funny about them.
So more like Return of theLiving Dead than, say, texas
Chainsaw Massacre, like EvilDead 2, like you know, those
(03:33):
kind of movies.
So I think that's how itstarted.
Like we are people that like tomake jokes and when it comes to
monster movies, like we lovemonster movies but we like the
ones that are campy and the onesthat are a little bit funnier
and the ones that definitelyfall into like the definition
technically of horror comedy.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
So yeah, I think, after like a couple of viewings
of like jason or you know or,stuff with freddy krueger like
I'm like, okay, this is kind ofsilly at this point, but I still
appreciate it for the horror.
Like I remember a young mewatching, you know, seeing
Freddy for the first time and Iwas like terrified.
But now that I like 33, youknow it's kind of silly yeah so
(04:16):
what is?
What is the quintessential?
Speaker 2 (04:17):
like horror comedy movie Like I think like Little
Shop of Horrors.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
That's like the first thing.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Oh yeah, that was definitely, definitely horror
comedy, and I'd say definitelyon the more mild side of horror
comedy, but um, excellentexamples would be like shawn of
the dead or two, or tucker anddale versus evil, um, even I'd
say like the adams family andthe monsters, I mean that's
(04:43):
really how like a lot of peopleend up in horror is when they're
children they find these showsthat are about monsters, but
they're not scary, they're funny, and that becomes sort of the
on-ramp to a lifelong love ofmonsters that may lead them
deeper and deeper into horror.
So horror comedy I woulddescribe as like the on-ramp to
horror fandom.
(05:03):
You know, for people thateither were too young or maybe
they don't realize that theylike horror because they only
think of it as one thing, like alot of people who are normies,
I feel like they hear the wordhorror and they like scowl
because they think it'ssomething like Hostel or Texas
Chainsaw Massacre.
And if you're not into thatflavor of horror you're just
(05:24):
going to automatically think allof it is like that and you're
not going to try any of it.
But when you see somethingthat's like a horror comedy and
it might not be branded orcalled a horror comedy it might
be monster something or you knowsomething like that you would
be more likely to try it.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
So sure we're the waiting pool.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
We're like the shallow end of the pool that
leads into horror.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
So yeah, or they think we're awful people, right,
and we're, we're, we're devilworshipers and we're just, uh,
we, we've got a messed upchildhood and there is um there,
there, there's something wrongwith us, and so, therefore, that
is the only thing that we canfind enjoyment in is the pain of
others, and it's like no, likeyou gotta gotta understand that
what what horror does for folkslike horror is like cheap, safe
(06:07):
thrills.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Like that's it.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Like some people jump out of airplanes, we watch
scary movies like it's nodifference.
I mean it's honestly, horrorwriters.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
they're generally the happiest and most well adjusted
people that I have met, and Ithink it's because, all of us
have already dealt with ourdemons.
So we're all like you know.
We're all cheerful and good.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, the demons are out on the page, exactly.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
It's like we work through our fears, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, so I mean so all time movie monster.
I mean top of the line.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
What is it?
Because?
I mean I'm, I mean any monster,I mean my number one is
Godzilla.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
But that's I mean, that's questionable, I mean as
far as what camp he belongs in.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I mean sci-fi, campy comedy, amazing, yeah, yeah I'll
still watch any godzilla movie,but it seems like I only watch
them like on an airplane.
Speaker 1 (06:59):
You know like I'll never like go look for a
godzilla movie, but you knowwhat really, yeah, yeah, well,
I'll never like go look for aGodzilla movie.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Really.
Yeah, well, I'll have to likechange your ways because, yeah,
there's a lot of really goodones lately.
Godzilla minus one was amazing.
It's like made me cry, likeI've never had like a human
storyline in a Godzilla movie.
Be so fantastic.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
But of course, you know, I love the ones from the
60s and stuff that were allcampy rubber suits, stomping on
tanks.
I mean, yes, yeah, that remindsme of like, um, the shift from
like power rangers, like, if youremember power rangers, it was
like cardboard boxes and stuffand and like the town was just
made out of like you know, likeclay and stuff, like that.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
I love that.
I love that stuff so much.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, but then you get the new age stuff yeah then,
you get the new age stuff andit's all cgi and it's more
realistic and it's like I kindof miss the old stuff there's a
place for both.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Definitely a place for both, but he's not really
like a horror monster.
So I think my favorite horrormonsters would be like the
deadites from the evil dead andash versus evil dead.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Like I love them a lot yes, I just watched the um
the newest evil dead um evildead rise I think, was that the
one of?
The apartment complex yes yeah,and so, like with that one, I
was like yeah, this is.
This is old school evil dead.
Like this is exactly what itwas meant to be.
It's meant to be over the topand ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
It's meant to be the minute you saw that wood chipper
in like act one, you're like Iknow it's exactly what's gonna
happen there.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
It's like checkoff's wood chipper like I know that's
gonna show up again at the endof the movie, so yeah, yeah, I
mean just a little bit ofthrowback to like the old evil
dead movies where it was justlike never been seen before.
Can we make it rain blood onthis, on this screen, you know,
and can we get people to enjoyit?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
you know, like kind of the same you know alien.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
For me was that very much that way like the first
alien movie.
I remember like watching thatand I was like this is the
scariest damn thing I've everseen oh yeah, that was before.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
It's like a haunted house movie in space like, where
, like the monsters, they'retrying to get you and you can't
get out.
It's amazing.
Yeah, like event horizon horrormovie 100%.
I got upset by like EventHorizon.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Like Event Horizon upset that for me.
But like I remember watchingthe alien movies and then like,
as new ones came out, I didn'tcare if it was like new alien,
if it was like, oh, this is likeSpace Marines versus the aliens
, or it's like uh all.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
I wanted.
Speaker 1 (09:19):
All I cared about was the fact that it was alien and
so like when the newest aliencame out and it was like super,
like nostalgic right I don't, Idon't remember the name of is it
romulus?
yeah, and it was all thethrowbacks right and all the fan
service, like I think that'swhat I love a lot about the
horror community is that, likethere were a whole bunch on
occasion.
(09:39):
There will be staples right.
There will be things that justkind of stick with us that we
love, and then somebody alongthe lines will design something
and create something that justgives service back to that thing
, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
It's.
It kind of reminds me of, likehow they're doing with the
Terrifier movies.
Are you familiar with those?
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Oh, yes, yes yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
And with, with the Terrifier movies.
It's just the same thing everysingle time.
There's no, there's no crazystoryline, it's.
It's just over the topridiculous.
Just like the first one.
So like the hard, community isvery good at giving you exactly
what you're looking for, sothat's amazing.
Speaker 2 (10:20):
I love it yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
And so that's why I say we're like we are probably
one of the coolest bunch outthere compared to, you know,
some other, some other types offans.
So let's, let's talk a littlebit about about the books, right
, and and about, and aboutreading.
Like what, did you grow upreading a lot of horror books,
or were you, or is that kind ofsomething you picked up along?
Speaker 2 (10:37):
the way.
Well, you know, once again I'mgoing to blame my mom, because,
you know, we lived in the middleof nowhere, so going to the
library was like a specialoccasion.
But the few books that we didown, that we had in the house,
were all my mom's, and everysingle one of them was Stephen
King, of course, because it wasthe 80s and that was when you
know.
So it was like a whole bookcasefull of Stephen King, I think.
Like my dad had one book and itwas like some history book like
(10:59):
Arms of Croppp, and thateverything else was like Stephen
King.
So it was all monsters in myhouse all the time.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
And and and?
What did she talk to you aboutwhen she, when she, like, when
she saw you were reading those,did she?
Speaker 2 (11:12):
mention anything, she was just.
You know, she was happy, I wasreading, I wasn't watching TV.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah.
Yeah, I've got an old, worncopy of, I think, salem's lot.
I think that was my probably myfirst introduction to Stephen
King.
Like like Stephen King, like inbetween cocaine bitches, was
like really good.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
God bless him, though I mean, yeah, he wasn't a
boring writer like us.
He was out partying and tryingto live it up, and he survived
it, so it's all right.
It's all right, yeah, I meanand, and he survived it, so it's
all right, it's all right.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yeah, I mean, and the interviews are pretty, it's
like, it's pretty awesome, LikeI wish that one day.
He's like so you know, mr King,like where do you get your
inspiration?
He goes cocaine, a lot ofcocaine.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I mean it got us maximum overdrive, and I don't
care what people say, I lovethat movie.
So See and people hatedChristine.
I love Christine for that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Yeah, so yeah, I still have that song stuck in my
head Um the song the radiowould play.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Um, now you're going to get it stuck in my head.
You can stop right now.
Don't, don't give me an earworm.
I'm going to play it.
No, no, yeah, but no it'sthat's um no, that's something.
That's something about horror.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
And I and I asked this kind of this, this question
pretty much pretty much everytime but you're a horror writer.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
You've been around horror, so what scares you then?
There are a few things that Ican't do in horror.
Where my lines are and mylimits.
And one of them is body horror.
Okay, and that's a recent thingbecause of my own medical
things, where I was like, justright now, emotionally I can't
do body horror.
So like everybody was ravingabout the substance and part of
me wanted to see it but I didn'tbecause I was like, oh, I know
it's body horror and I justdon't know if I'm in the space
for it, like right now it's likea little too close to home.
(13:02):
And the other thing is like Ican't stand when, like, bad
things happen to little kids youknow, like what was that spider
movie that just came out like,where it was like some space
spider and the chick the littlegirl was raising in her room and
it was getting bigger andbigger staying or something and
I was like as soon as I saw thebaby and I was like, no,
something bad's gonna happen tothat baby, so I'm not gonna
(13:22):
movie.
So it's like those are thethings that I just can't do.
It's just like a little tooemotional for me.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Sting was very much like eight-legged freaks.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Was it.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
It felt like that, I think you would.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
I think you'd probably enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
So it was campy but I was still like the part to the
baby so those are the thingsthat that bother me.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
I don't know that I'd say scare, but you know, it's
like once you face death, likepersonally, like up close.
It's like everything's inperspective.
So things that scare otherpeople might not scare you as
much sure so I feel like that'swhere I am.
It's like there are limits ofthings that make me
uncomfortable, but I don't knowabout actually being scared,
because it's like I've been tothe point where everything and
(14:08):
all hope is lost so I don't know, it takes a lot, probably, to
actually scare scare me, andmaybe I don't know what that is.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
So yeah, yeah, I think that I think a lot of
people like can find a littlebit of safety in in horror, like
, oh yeah, it's a safe scare,it's like you feel all those
feelings and you and you oh, Imean how many of us like we
watch a movie or reread a bookand we're like, well, what would
I do?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
like we're working through what we would do in that
situation.
So it's almost like trainingfor real world trauma and horror
and disaster and crisis,because you know that's what you
do.
It's like it's a safe way towork through those feelings and
ask yourself, like what would Ido?
Would I do the same dumb thingsas this character, or would I
do this or that?
So it's almost like workingthrough a plan for real world
crisis.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
So yeah, and I don't know how many times that I've
been like, well, you just take ashortcut and then, like, think
back.
I'm like, yeah, I'm in themiddle of a horror movie right
now, like I think, I think thatall the time.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I'm like yeah, this is how this horror movie begins.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Like let's split up, yeah, recover more ground, yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
Yeah, I will never ask my friends to split up.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, yeah, so my my big.
Thing is trains.
I'm like locomotives.
It's an irrational fear.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
It fear doesn't make any sense.
I'm fine on the metro, but likesome big, like coal-powered
thing, like I don't wantanything to do with it, like how
often do we get to go on?
Speaker 1 (15:32):
big coal-powered things like here in the us.
For me never, yeah, we neverget there also be never like so,
um, you know, and I thinkthere's, and I think real horror
is kind of kind of.
Something that creeps me outtoo is like I've I've been to.
You know I've been intobuildings with chasing after
guys with guns and I've been.
You know fights in my life andthat sort of thing and and you
know fighting guys with knivesand like I don't.
(15:52):
I've done all that, but like onetime.
So when this is my wife.
When she was, when she waswooing me, when we first started
dating, she took me to theEmily in san antonio, without
ever telling me the historybehind the emily morgan hotel
let me guess is it haunted?
Extremely, extremely.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
I like her already see, I knew I liked her she took
you to a haunted hotel duringduring your wooing.
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, and all of that was overshadowed, what was not
even something that like stuckwith me until like.
Until we realized, like shepaid for the, the floor that is
the most haunted, which is like.
We stay on the 12th floor it'sactually the 13th floor and then
like or is it still?
But it was the 14th floor isactually, however, that works.
And then like you know, she gotlike there's bottle service.
(16:41):
And then there was, they hadcarriage rides around like with
the horse-drawn carriage and solike all this stuff was
happening.
Then she was like oh, by theway, here's where we stayed, and
I'm like no no, and so and andfrom from a horror writer like I
don't want anything to do withthis, you know, like I can deal
with the guy with a gun, butlike ghosts, like I can't shoot
(17:01):
the ghost, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
So the ghosts.
I have a ghost story, since wewere just together in Las Vegas
at the horseshoe, so I forgetwhat floor I was on yes, I did
not know.
Supposedly it's one of the mosthaunted places in Las Vegas and
I only asked that.
I only tell you this because myroomie and I in Vegas, at the
horseshoe, like one morning wewoke up we both had these big
scratches on our hands and wecouldn't figure out where we had
(17:25):
gotten them because we don'tremember it happening the night
before and we were like sittingin the bar area with other
authors and we were like we gotthese weird scratches.
And then my roommate was likeyeah, I thought you came home
last night because I heardvoices and footsteps and I
looked up and you weren't there.
You weren't home yet.
Home last night because I heardvoices and footsteps and I
(17:45):
looked up and you weren't there.
You weren't home yet.
And of course, our friend looksat us and he's like well, it's
because this is like the mosthaunted hotel in Las Vegas.
And I was like what?
And he's like you've got ghostsin your room and they were
scratching you.
I was like do not tell me thison night two and I've got to be
here for four more nights.
Like what do you do?
Like this isn't helping me.
And he's like well, I'm tryingto save your life.
I'm like what am I gonna doagainst a ghost?
yeah, what the heck yeah, so,and I'm like I'm not normally
(18:09):
like a ghosty kind of person,but I was, like you know, a
little bit on edge after thatwith the scratches on my hand
and the weird voices, so I don'tknow who's it?
Haunted by by some apparentlythere was a fire there where a
bunch of people died, like inthe 80s, I don't know, like a
mobster or something, I don'tknow.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I just think like you know, somebody in a suit with a
Tommy gun, like that's what Ithink of, like haunting the
place.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Well, I'm just recounting what happened, you
know we were there.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
So yeah, well, great.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Sorry, I shouldn't have told you Now I know that.
Um, you were not in a goodstate when I saw you because
right after so you did notrecount the whole tale.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
No, yeah Well, I've been saving this story for the
podcast because all right, tellme.
So so, first off, it is anassault on the senses there.
It is nuts, like there's somuch going on, like there's
bells and whistles and soundeffects and all these things
coming from all these doodadsthat are all moving and doing
stuff and then they pump arethey haunted doodads?
(19:15):
I don't know, like they hadweird stuff don't get me wrong
and like I think it was anassault on the senses on purpose
.
So what they did was like itfelt like the floor was uneven
in certain areas and that waskind of like a mystery house.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Have you ever been to one of those, the mystery
houses?
Speaker 1 (19:27):
yeah tourist attractions okay yeah and so
like, but then they cram abouteight people into this tiny
little room, so they've gotclaustrophobia and it's really
hot.
And then they've got smoke likethat they're pumping in the
other.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
I thought it was like .
I thought it was like a barrestaurant that you walked
through and saw like that's whatI thought.
Speaker 1 (19:42):
I thought it was like a 20 minute, like walkthrough.
No, it was a three hourexcursion oh my god, yeah and so
at one point in time, like theybring us into this, like make
believe, make makeshift chapel,and they play a live exorcism
that happened, yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
And then like you couldn't like leave, you had to
go room to room with the samegroup of people.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yes, oh, my gosh Experiencing.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
I love you, but I'm almost like glad that I missed
it now.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Love, almost like glad that I missed it.
Now, yeah, love you guys.
This sounds intense, yeah it,it can be, and so like we paid
for the vip passes too, so likeanyways, so anyways.
So like, in this room wasapparently this box, and this
box is where the demon wasimprisoned from this exorcism
and they had it on display, andthat's kind of the flavor of
what did you like knock it overand it like fell open, and now
you're haunted.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
No, I no, I was already not doing so.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Hot okay like I was already not doing so hot, like
my back was like torqued at thispoint.
But then they were like here'sa creepy hole, anybody want to
climb through it?
Like it's in the side of thehall, like in the side of the
building.
Like climb through it into thenext room and we'll see you
there.
And I'm like did you have to.
You don't have an option it wasoptional and I was like no like
(20:55):
you see into the creepy hole.
No, it's completely black, likeit's and and they said it's
black, but they said there'salso mirrors in there.
I'm like so why is it blackthen, if there's mirrors?
So none of us like they're liketwo people that went and did it
you know.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
anyways they say did you give them?
They them, they were fine, theycame through like they came
through on the other end.
It was just a hole like just toyou know, it was just a hole,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Boo yeah.
And so we're like going torooms and like one of them was
like here's the cauldron that EdGein like boiled a bunch of
people in.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
And I'm like they had it in the building and like I'm
like, okay, like we got some,they're making like a sensory
experience around theseartifacts from real, like that
they found that are hauntedbecause just looking at the box
with the demon, and it wouldn'tbe as exciting as listening to
the soundtrack of the exorcism.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
All right, I get it exactly and in the meantime,
they're pumping different smellsinto each room, right?
So like the smell changes basedon where you go, and then the
lighting changes and then thefloors feel uneven than the
temperature changes, and so allof this is happening to you in
the meantime, like you had to,like say this like oath, like I
understand if I am haunted, thatis not, you know, zach Bagans
responsibility, like really getyou in the mood, you know.
(22:05):
So all this is happening Rightand at this point we're about to
go into the demon basement andyou had to pay for the VIP
passes to get into the demonbasement, where they actually
did sacrifice children in thisbasement of this mansion and
like all I can see in front ofme is like the deep hole into
the basement.
But above that, all I can seeis my logo.
(22:25):
It's got my logo.
It was like a pair of skeletonhands holding my skeleton logo
thing, like I'm like.
I don't know if it's my logo,you know.
That's all I could focus on.
But my back is so bad that I'mlike I tell my wife, I'm like
baby, I'm not going to be ableto make it Like you're going to
have to go without me.
(22:52):
I've got to go or I'm going toend up in the hospital.
Like my legs stopped to workand so I fall out.
And at that point they wouldzag back as they had me on
freaking camera falling out,thinking like I passed out or
something from possession orsomething.
I'm like I'm not doing this andso I told my wife, I'm like baby
, I'm, I gotta go she's likewell, I want to stay, I'm like
you can stay, and so I tell theguy I'm like ma'am, I'm like I
need to go out, and she goes.
Are you experiencing something?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
God, no, my back is killing me.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Don't flatter yourself.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, and so like I'm staring down, like I had to
like kind of talk into her earand so she was over my shoulder,
like so I could because it wasreally loud, and over her
shoulder I'm looking down thelong hallway we just came from
and I see a full on apparitionof a little girl in a big flowy
dress with pigtails.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
She's waving at me like this and you're all upset
about my hand scratches at thehotel we were sleeping in.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Is it because it's where you were sleeping and you
couldn't get away?
Yeah, and I'm like well,obviously and this is the
thought process that wentthrough my head Obviously I'm in
a scary movie.
If I just look away and I lookback, it'll be gone.
No, she'll be right there.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
So I look away and I look back.
It'll be gone, no, she'll beright there.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
So I look away, I look back and she's two feet
closer yes, that's exactly whathappens in the scary movies.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
You should know that.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Come on and so by this point my eyes are like this
right, and she starts leadingme out and they find me a chair
and they're like so I heard you,uh, the guard outside.
He's like so I heard youexperiencing something.
And I'm like, no, I asked him.
I said hey, is there some shitin that house like some
projectors and stuff like that?
He's like why did youexperience something?
I'm like no, my back is killingme, but I may have seen some
(24:21):
shit on my way out.
I gotta know, is there aprojector?
And he goes how could they beprojected?
There's so much smoke in thisbuilding from the, from the
smoke machines, that like itwould show all the rays of the
projector.
And so I was like so is that isthat?
um, I was like I'm starting tohave a crisis at this point and
I'm like I saw some shit, like Iand you left your wife in there
(24:43):
yeah, yeah, I left her there.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
We still love you, though, because she's okay, she
made it okay she's, she's justas hot as I am.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
She does all kinds of creepy shit.
So like I'm like, oh, so I'mlike having an existential
crisis.
And they call the manager outand they're like, hey, can,
would you mind going recordingto talk about what you saw?
And I was like, no, I'm likethere's no way.
And they're like, and I waslike can you pull the footage so
I can see if there was somebodyor something there?
He goes oh, yeah, you'll see itlater.
(25:11):
I'm like when's that?
And he's like, well, when Ipull the footage and I put it
all over social media, I'm likegreat.
And so like I'm sitting downhere for another half hour and
going through this crisis.
And and he's like, yeah, so itsounds like um doesn't want to
hang out in that hallway.
She hangs out in this hallway,in this corner.
So that's really weird that yousaw her there.
(25:31):
And I'm like, okay, so theguide comes out eventually, the
one that I said, hey, I gotta go.
And she, I was like, hey, wasthere something going on in that
hallway?
She's like what'd you see?
And I'm like, no, you tell mewhat was going on in that
hallway.
She's like well, I saw likestraight on apparition, like oh,
really.
(25:51):
I was like, yeah, I was likethis looks like this, like this,
like this, and and she said itwas Tabitha.
He was like she was like oh, um, no, actually that was.
That was, uh, abigail.
And Abigail is one of ouremployees and I was like, wait,
what?
And she was like, yeah, what'dyou see?
And I was like little girl,pigtails, big flowy dress,
shadow waving at me.
(26:12):
She's like, yeah, that wasAbigail ushering you, but you
didn't want to follow her.
You followed me, and so allthey're going to see is me on
camera tweaking out, thinkingI'm seeing a ghost, and all I
got is this poor employee tryingto help me.
And so Abigail comes out andshe's four foot five and she's
wearing a dress and she's gotpigtails, and it's an even
(26:33):
better story.
It's amazing oh my god holy Igot scratches on my hand from a
real ghost yeah, no, like if Ihad scratches on me, they were
probably self-induced from myown paranoia, like it was that's
hilarious.
That's hilarious yeah, so Ihaunted myself at zapp baggins's
museum.
But for anybody, you get achance to go to vegas.
It is an assault on the senses.
It is pretty creepy.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
Yeah, it sounds like um, like a really well done
haunted haunted house like you'dgo through halloween.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
You know, maybe just a little bit more well done
theatrically so yeah, but Ithink if you, if you understand
who zach baggins is like, if yousee his episodes of the tv show
and stuff, you can feel that inthe house Okay.
You know, it's like he goes.
I have a Zach Bagans impression.
He's like I'm talking to thespirits in the house right now,
(27:21):
If you can hear me tap on myface like that's what it very
much feels like there at theplace, Like it feels like Zach
Bagans is creation so verytheatrical, you know know
whether or not that was.
They had weird stuff.
they had like charles manson's,like sock from prison, like
weird shit like I guess you getwhat you can get, right, that's
(27:43):
what I'm saying I'm like, likethey only had one haunted doll
but for whatever reason they hada wall of dolls and the one
haunted doll in the middle ofthe the wall like I'm okay, like
you know, but I don't know itwas it was a lot of fun.
I mean the same thing with youknow.
Stuff like that.
It is fun, you know, even ifyou get scared, right.
(28:03):
I mean, isn't that kind of thepoint?
Speaker 2 (28:05):
I mean that being scared is the fun part yeah
because in theory it's safe, butyou can also be scared.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
So or get scratched.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Yeah well, I didn't know that there was a ghost
thing.
I just woke up with like what?
What happened?
Speaker 1 (28:19):
I didn't have that much to drink last night yeah,
well, it always reminds me oflike like you see the ghost
stories and like it's alwayslike minor stuff, like scratches
and stuff like that, or maybesomething feels like they got
shoved, but like then you, it'slike the complete opposite of
like, let's say, like thecryptid hunters, where, like
they get a picture of bigfootand it's just taken with a
potato and you're like you'retelling me with all the
(28:41):
technology on the planet and allyou got is this blurry blob and
that's.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
God bless the bigfoot fans though they're.
They're amazing.
There's a big bigfoot umconvention in ohio at a place
called salt fork state parklodge where there's been a lot
of sightings.
And if you go to the um, therestaurant there, they have
bigfoot themed sandwiches anddesserts like they have like a
big bigfoot cookie in your, inyour, like dessert sundae and
stuff.
(29:07):
But they have a big thing thereand they have the best um art
fair there because it's allbigfoot encrypted themed
crafters, like, so like theselittle old ladies and guys like
who do wood carvings withchainsaws come out of the woods
and like have these awesome likebigfoot and mothman, like like
art for sale.
It's like just the most amazing,amazing experience.
(29:29):
And then they have these veryserious, very like you know,
well thought out like peoplegive presentations about bigfoot
and where they think that he isand where they think that he's
living and the going theory whenI was there is that the bigfoot
is living in the cave systemsand like rural ohio and west
virginia and like coming outlike grabbing campers or
(29:50):
whatever.
And I'm like I mean, you mean,you know, if you've seen the
Descent.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I mean you know, oh, my God, Awesome Speaking of the
Descent like.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Not a comedy, by the way.
Not a comedy, no, not a comedy.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Yeah, If you ever find yourself like you know what
you should start doing,Spelunking Like who on earth?
Speaker 2 (30:11):
That might be one thing I'm scared of.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Boom, like head, pop off the pillow, like, yeah,
let's go in this cave, let's dothis, let's see if we can get
stuck.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
Yeah, when you go to like Mammoth Cave and places
like that in Kentucky, they haveall these plaques and like
stories about the guys becausethere was like a caving rush and
like if you were a poor guy inkentucky and you were trying to
cash in on your land, like theywould find a hole and like try
to discover in the next mammothcave and half of them like died
in there when they got stuck youknow, because they were
(30:42):
exploring and they're just, Imean, it's a cave there's, it's
unpredictable and it's tiny.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
I mean, oh, that just sounds awful terrible that
might be my fear right thereyeah, a couple of places that
I'm just like no you know, likelike a couple things that I'm
like, no, like, like like theelon musk's neuro implant and
I'm like he says, he says itcould literally cure paralysis,
(31:10):
but you got to inject thismicrochip into your brain.
I'm like, has anybody seenevery scary movie out there?
Speaker 2 (31:17):
this is like literally every 80s, like sci-fi
movie, like yeah, it never endswell.
But it's also like, I mean, ifyou're desperate and you get to
the point where you feel likeyou have nothing to lose, which
is also how these movies go andhow these stories go, I mean, I
could see how people would sayyes.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Yeah, that's why I love horror, because it's like a
well-written book orwell-created movie.
That's horror.
It would almost make you sayfor the characters like, yeah,
I'd probably do that too.
Yeah, you know Like justprobably do that, not even like
I would do that too.
Yeah, you know, like it justprobably do that not even like.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
I would do that like yeah, you just have to
understand why they make thechoices they make.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I mean, if it's character driven horror, so yeah
and that's, and sometimes thatyeah, that's exactly right, and
sometimes you don't even needthat right.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
You're like you know they're gonna mess up you know
they're gonna make a mistake,because they have to well, they
have to, or else the movie wouldbe over or the book would be
over in five five minutes.
The smart people don't make forgood movies or books because
the good decision and it's overbefore the horror starts.
So they have to make baddecisions to keep the plot going
in horror yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
And so you keep using this word, campy, and keeps
coming back to me because I wantto talk about your books.
How do you write campiness intoa book?
Speaker 2 (32:38):
That is a really good question, because it's also the
question of, like, how do youwrite comedy?
And this is something that I'vetalked a lot about with other
comedy writers.
People think that you're justwriting jokes but you're not
really writing jokes, think thatyou're just writing jokes but
you're not really writing jokes.
The comedy comes from, like,the disconnect between what
people think is going to happenversus what actually happens.
(32:59):
So I don't think that it'swriting jokes.
I think that it's writingsituations that get, you know
that just get more and moreridiculous, and then the
character you know is reactingto, you know, the ridiculousness
of the situation versus whatthey expected was going to
happen.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
So yeah, so there's gotta be a lot of sarcasm uh,
yeah, I'd say so like I.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I mean, I think that's how horror works too.
Is that like it's?
The horror happens when there'show you think your life is
going to go versus how itactually goes, and it goes off
the rails, and then comedy isthe same.
So when you mix those twothings together, you can get
pretty good story so, and do youput more of a focus on the
horror, do you?
Um.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
I'm my current series um 24 7.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Demon mart is definitely more on the comedy
than the horror.
So there are monsters, butthere's always a happy ending.
So that's not to say that inthe future things will not be
more towards the horror.
So, but for now it's moretowards the comedy.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Okay, so that's the first time I've heard in a long
time like this is horror, andthere will always be a happy
ending.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, I write horror with happy ending, and that's
where the comedy is.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
So that's interesting , so that that to me tells me
like, especially for a lot offolks who are just been burned
by horror you know, somebodywho's like there may not be,
they may be exploring hard andlike, yeah, I thought you know,
watching a scary movie would bekind of cool and be the type to
(34:37):
watch through their fingers type, but then somebody introduces
them into something that that isjust like not their vein, and
so they just like oh, I don'tever want to consider horror
ever again.
Like like I'm, I'm very much afan of like saw, but I'm not a
fan of like hostile, which waslike bad saw yeah, I mean, that
was just like a torture porn isthe subgenre.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
So which is different ?
Which hey to each his own.
You know like, well, there isthis meme that went around that
I saved because I thought it wasgenius, and it was like normies
versus mutants, mutants beingthe horror fans like normies and
they see horror and they justsee one thing and it's one dot
that says horror, and thenthere's the horror fan on the
other side who sees horror, andthen there's the horror fan on
the other side who sees horrorand it was like 50 different
(35:11):
things and it was all the subgenres.
You know, yeah, it was like oh,exploitation, horror comedy,
like psychological horror, folkhorror, you know those kind of
things it's like.
If you're a horror fan already,you know that there's infinite
flavors of horror and we allhave our preferences about what
flavors we do and don't like.
But a lot of people who are nothorror fans just think horror
(35:33):
and they think of one thing, youknow, and they can stop if the
first thing they experience issomething that you know is not
to their liking or makes themuncomfortable, because they
don't realize that there's morenuance and there's more out
there to horror.
There are subgenres they mightactually like and, um, you know,
when I say horror comedy is anon-ramp for people who who might
(35:54):
not otherwise try horror.
That's totally been true in myexperience.
Like a lot of my readers, theydon't read horror.
I mean, they're reading mystuff.
They don't realize they'rereading horror.
They never would haveidentified it as horror, but
like in their brain they're likeoh no, I see horror and I just
just I keep going, I move awaybecause I know I'm not
interested in that.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Right.
Speaker 2 (36:12):
So, but they still read my stuff.
So I get a lot of people thataren't don't consider themselves
horror readers, but they aredrawn into the story because
it's you know, it's lighter andit's funnier and it's you know,
it's monsters, but it's fun andthere's a happy ending and
characters that they can laughwith.
But I'm like well you know, Ijust brought you into horror.
You may call it something else,but that's what this is.
(36:35):
So and it's kind of opened a newworld of reading for them,
because I'm like well, if youlike my stuff, there's these
other people that you could trythat are also.
You know, read on that line,you know that you might like so
yeah, I mean, that's and that'salways the.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
The conversation I have with people is like I used
to be kind of bashful about whatI write and and and try to kind
of dance around.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Well, yeah, I mean because when people ask you and
you can tell by looking themthat they're not horror people
you know how they're going toreact.
If they're like oh, what do youwrite?
And they think you're going tosay like oh, romance.
Or you know mystery, cozy.
And you say horror and they'relike oh, they get that.
Look on their face.
You know, we've all been there.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah, and it's so amazing too, Like if you go to
like like I do.
I used to do farmer's markets alot when.
I had a lot of time and I wouldhave people like I don't read
horror, but I love your covers.
Can you?
Can you talk to me about it?
I'm like, if you never, do younot like horror?
Or do you, did you not likesomething horror that you were
at experience?
And it's normally like therewas something I experienced and
(37:36):
since then I haven't reallyliked it.
I'm like perfect, my stuff isperfect for you because I'm like
I am.
I am the every man's horror guy, like I'm the average, like
right in the middle, not likenot on the extreme end and
definitely not on the cozy end.
I'm as mainstream as I as I canbe to reach the most amount of
people, and most people likemainstream horror.
(37:56):
What they don't like is to saythey don't want to be blindsided
by the torture port.
They don't want to be blindsidedby you know, certain certain
fears, fears like you have a lotof folks who are like I'll read
any book as long as it doesn'thave like animal abuse in it and
so you know, I mean, I canunderstand, like trigger words
or that sort of thing for tryingto find what you're looking for
(38:17):
, but like as also from like anauthor's perspective, like we
need to be clear about what,what kind of horror we're
writing, like are you and thatcomes from you know, of course,
from the covers that we pick andalso about the, the blurbs that
we pick.
But, like there's aresponsibility that I feel like
I have with with my readers togive them the thing that they
asked for and to give them thething that I promised with the
(38:39):
book and the cover of the storyand not slip something crazy in
there that they're not expectingyeah, definitely, definitely so
, like what?
What are the promises you makewith your writing?
Like what do you?
That's a hard question, readersI mean really what I?
Speaker 2 (38:54):
I mean, when I started 24 7 demon mart, I just
wrote the kind of horror that Ilike, the kind of monsters that
I like, and I thought I was justlike a crazy person, like
laughing alone in my basementand I was like this is either
brilliant or like I'm justreally that dumb.
So but then when it was out inthe world, like people really
liked it and responded to it andI was like, oh, so I mean I
write the kind of things that Ilike.
(39:15):
I it's kind of like Evil Dead 2, ash versus Evil Dead, you know
, kind of mixed in with Clerks,since it's set in like a
convenience store.
It's like, um, yeah, so I justmake sure that people know that
it's like you know from thecovers and and from the
descriptions what kind of storythey're going to get, that it's
going to be a little bitridiculous and silly and it's
(39:38):
got monsters in it and probablysome blood and guts and you know
.
But it's all going to work outall right in the end.
So they're safe with me.
So yeah, and that's, and that'salways fun, I mean it's, it's,
it's so fun to say like, I thinkthere's an opportunity for you
to fall in love with somethingyou may have fallen out of love
(40:00):
with at one point, and so youcan yeah, yeah, I think that in
the beginning in my mind it wasso clearly horror comedy because
it was very much like Evil Deadinspired.
It was like clear to me but itwasn't clear to the people that
were picking it up and readingit, so that was a surprise to me
that they weren't horror fans.
So I was like, oh okay.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
So where do you find your demographic is Like who?
Who's the average person?
That are picking these up.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
It depends, like, um, I have people all all over the
spectrum and I'm pretty evenlysplit between um men and women.
Um, my readers in ebook areprobably like skew, like older,
like forties and and up, but myaudio and paper readers are
probably under 40, a lot of them, particularly audiobooks.
(40:50):
Um, which was one of theinteresting things about going
to live um shows and meetingreaders and listeners, which is
absolutely amazing like so manyyoung people were listening to
the audiobooks, you know.
So, yeah, I'm all over theplace.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Like I can't pin it down to like one particular
group, so yeah, I mean I find mymost of my readers are pretty
much 30 to 35 plus women I meanthat's generally most of them
really I I'm like, I mean I'mprobably 50 to 60 percent men.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
So interesting.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
They probably love that comedy element, you know,
and and like Shaun of the Deadand, like you said, like Clerks
as a reference, like those arevery much movies that men would
enjoy, you know.
So I could see that, you know,and even from the title on 24-7
Demon Martyr, I'm like that doessound like exactly in my head
what I would imagine horrorcomedy to be, and so I'm like
yeah, I'd pick something likethat up and I'm 33 and I'm a man
(41:44):
, so like yeah, so that'sinteresting.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, I'd pick something like that up, and I'm
33 and I'm a man, so that'sinteresting.
You're so young, I'm going topinch your cheeks.
You're so young.
Yeah, I know I don't sound likeit.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Yeah, but very cool, very cool.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
I love these types of Well, it's funny you ask about
Promises because I wrote like astandalone short story and it
was like a granny horror storyand it was like a granny horror
comedy and it did not have happyending.
Like the main character did notmake it to the end, and so many
of my existing readers who arelike wrote me notes like, really
, like, really, she didn't makeit to the end, like, really,
like she's, she's dead.
(42:19):
Cause I was like I guess Ididn't realize that I was giving
you happy endings whereeverybody makes it to the end,
you know, until I didn't, andeverybody was like how could you
do this today?
Speaker 1 (42:28):
he was like okay, so all right note to self yeah, you
talked about granny like thisis you only got a couple minutes
left, but talk about like, uh,granny, stuff.
I've got this story in my headthat's based on a, on a single
tagline that like I startedwriting dark fantasy before I
was right.
I was writing horror, but mydark fantasy was so dark but it
was like, hey, you gotta writehorror um and so like dark
(42:50):
fantasy, yeah, yeah, and so likethis, this this tagline has
been stuck in my head that'sgrandma's got a battle axe and
I'm like we need like a witcher,but like an old lady, it was a
granny, yeah but yeah, so that'sI'm definitely leaning towards
grannies.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Like I'm sneaking grannies in a lot of my side
projects these days, like I'mworking on like a christmas um
horror comedy for 2025 and I waslike all of a sudden the
grannies are showing up and I'mlike I wasn't in the original
plan, but you know yeah, it'snot the final girl anymore, so
it's the final grannies.
Yeah, yeah, they've got it allfigured out the grandmas so yeah
(43:29):
, oh, very cool.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Hey, um, denise, we're close on time here.
I I really appreciate bringingyou on and this has been awesome
.
It's so much fun to just goback and forth on the things
that make horror fun andinteresting.
Um, so, just real quick,shamelessly, where can people
find you?
Speaker 2 (43:46):
Well, 24-7, demon Mart is on Amazon and an audio
book on Audible with the amazingTodd Haberkorn, who is an anime
actor, as the narrator.
My website is dmgaycom, andthat's D-M-G-U-A-Y, just because
I like to make thingscomplicated and I'm French.
So if you Google me, I'm French.
(44:07):
So, yeah, so if you Google me,I'm pretty much the only one who
shows up.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
So perfect, awesome.
24-7 DMR.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Got it All right.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Yeah, thanks for having me on.
Ladies and gentlemen, this hasbeen the Nightmare Engine
podcast episode.
I don't know, but I'm back inthe swing of things.
I'm signing off for tonight.
Next week we'll have anotherguest and we'll be just moving
things along steadily, as always.
You can find me atdavidvergutscom.
I ask you to go to my website,please please do not go to
Amazon.
There you can find Scare Mailand soon to be, the upcoming
Scare Mail 2, which has reallytaken over and revolutionized
(44:40):
what horror is and what we cando with good storytelling.
So, ladies and gentlemen, thankyou for your.
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