Keystone Episode with Sarah Smith Nessel (Kansas City, MO)

Sarah Smith Nessel gets us up-to-date on Kansas City and how she built the life and narration career of her dreams... literally.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Let me tell you a story Music oh look, you've got
your little bumper sticker.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
So the line is right there.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
The line is right where the Music.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Oh my gosh, and I can smell the barbecue yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Music In Kansas City Music.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
It was once an idea that someone just continued to
believe in Music.

Speaker 5 (00:40):
I also hope everything goes well for this
book.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
Music.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Hey there, welcome to the Nomad Narrator.
It's me, your host and creator,emily, and I am so excited to
share the first ever episodewith you.
Our series premiere, so I wantto give you just a little
background on this project tokick things off and kind of set
the stage for what you're goingto hear today.
The idea for the Nomad Narratorcame to me about two years ago

(01:09):
when we were staying with somefriends in Arkansas.
They live in a really ruralarea on this beautiful lake and
they have an airstream set up intheir driveway that we've
stayed in a few times, but thiswas still during the pandemic
and work from home was kind of anew thing and it was my
husband's first time being ableto work on the road.
So while we were staying there,we were working the entire week

(01:33):
and then we would hang out withour friends and we'd sit by the
lake and we'd go out to dinnerand we just absolutely loved it.
It was amazing, and on the wayback home I said, man, I really
wish that I could do this.
I'd always really liked theidea of a camper van, but, being
an audiobook narrator, itreally was just kind of too

(01:53):
difficult to take somethingmobile on the road.
Well, technology of microphoneshas changed and if you've got
the right materials and theright kind of vehicle, it really
is not something that's thatimpossible.
So my husband was like, why notjust build your own booth, put
some time and effort into thisand you can have this studio
that you can travel around thecountry with?

(02:14):
And I was like, why not?
So I ended up buying a van.
I got some help from a companythat does amazing automotive
insulation.
Their name is Second Skin Autoand they sponsored the
soundproofing of the inside ofthe van.
My friend, andy Rudloff, whomakes these beautiful murals in

(02:36):
the Nashville area.
She designed a mural for theoutside and we just have this
absolutely gorgeous mobilestudio now.
You'll see it on the cover ofall the things with the podcast.
So the task ahead of me now isto take this van out on the road
to visit with and get to knowother narrators around the
country, because I have beenmaking audio books since I was

(02:59):
in high school and there is nobetter group of people.
And the most exciting part isthat the audio book industry has
been growing in leaps andbounds over the last decade and
we just keep getting more andmore amazing people on both
sides of the mic, as listeners,as creatives.
It's just a really excitingtime for an art forum that I

(03:23):
think goes back to the beginningof humanity, when we were all
sitting around campfires tellingeach other stories.
It's like it's come full circleand in 2020, as the industry
changed and shifted and we wereable to move into home studio
recording instead of needing tolive in Los Angeles and New York
the way that it used to be, Ireally started to wonder how it

(03:45):
is that these places that shapeus could shape the stories that
we tell and what we bring intothe booth and what we offer to
listeners.
So I just wanted to tie all ofthis together with a big bow and
offer it up as like a gift toeveryone that loves audio books,
whether it's people in theindustry, whether it's people

(04:08):
who are fans of the industry.
I just think that we're reallyripe for something that is an
offering for everybody, and Ireally want to be a part of that
and I want to help make ithappen.
So this first episode that Ihave for you takes place with
Sarah Smith Nestle, who I happento know from an audio book club

(04:30):
that I started.
We were not close friendsbefore we had this interview,
although I think we canabsolutely say that we are
friends now and, without anyfurther ado, I will introduce
you to Sarah in Kansas City.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
One, two, one two, three, four.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
I wake up to gentle sunshine streaming in through
the blinds of the guest roomwhere I'm staying, a sense of
floral prints and solid woodfurniture, and the color yellow
greet my fuzzy morning mind.
I snuggle back into the pile ofquilts for just a few more

(05:37):
winks.
It was a long day.
Yesterday.
I drove in from Kentucky anearly eight hour trip.
That was supposed to happenabout 24 hours earlier, but when
I went out to pack my van Irealized I'd gotten a flat tire
overnight.
I almost canceled the trip then, and there it was far from the
only hiccup I'd had putting thiswhole thing together and I was

(06:01):
feeling done before I'd evenstarted.
But when I let myself get quietand asked what I should do, the
answer that came back was clearIf there's only one thing you
do this week, you have to go onthis trip.
All right, then I took a breath, got my tire fixed and got on
the road the next day a littlelater than I'd hoped.

(06:23):
It was well after dark when Iarrived at my host's house and
the southerner in me was alreadyfretting over being a rude
guest.
But I wasn't out of the carmore than ten minutes before we
hopped right back in to go outto try to find a spot we could
see the northern lights.
We'd heard they were showing uptonight this far south and both
of us felt like that was thekind of thing worth staying up a

(06:45):
little late for.
And even though we didn't findsuccess with the stars, the
whole vibe left me with a goodfeeling about today.
Today I'm in Kansas City atSarah Smith Nestle's house,
who's agreed to be my firstinterview, guinea pig on the
Nomad narrator.
Today.
I get up, get dressed and brushteeth and head downstairs to

(07:10):
find breakfast waiting for me.
Sarah's home, which she shareswith husband Jeff and son Elijah
, is, I want to say, inviting,but that isn't even the right
word because it makes you feellike you don't even need an
invitation, you're just welcome,which probably has something to
do with the people that livethere.

(07:31):
I quickly learned that Jeff hasnever met a stranger, to the
point that Sarah has to allowtwice as long to grocery shop if
they go together, because hecan't help catching up with
everyone who works at the store.
Elijah, like any 19 year old,is looking to find his place in
the world, with the addedchallenge of being an autistic
young adult Like his parents.

(07:52):
His friendly candor and senseof humor are also immediately
apparent.
These people just seem likegood eggs Eggs the breakfast
Sarah made for me with pour overcoffee.
I finish up.
We decide to take her car forthe day so that she can drive
and we head out this is agorgeous day for this, do I have

(08:14):
?
my stuff.
I have my stuff.
Okay, I'm so glad you're myfirst person.
Oh look, you've got your littlebumper sticker.
All right, wait, I'm gonna-.
The sticker on Sarah's car wasfor Panna, the Professional
Audio Book Narrators Association, to give you some idea of how
quickly the industry's explosivegrowth has taken place recently
.
A few months ago, publishersand publishers weekly reported

(08:36):
that estimated audiobookrevenues for 2022 reached about
$1.8 billion, after 11 years ofdouble digit growth.
And yet, until Panna's foundingin 2021, there still wasn't
really any major organization ofits kind yet by and for
narrators.
And let me tell you, asrewarding as storytelling for a

(08:56):
living can be, it's also reallytough to work most of your day
alone in a tiny enclosed spacefor hours at a time.
So it's pretty exciting to seeeven more organizations and
opportunities sprouting up tosupport the craft and business
of narrators.
Okay, back to Kansas City, or,at this point in our drive, just
Kansas, where Sarah's home is.

(09:18):
Kansas City proper is inMissouri, at just over 500,000
residents as of the 2020 census.
Kansas City is Missouri'sbiggest city, with a
metropolitan area includingseveral counties and a fact that
took me by surprise straddlingthe Kansas-Missouri state line.

Speaker 4 (09:37):
Now, right now, we're on state line road.
This freaks out a lot of peopleis that you can go for miles,
and that's Missouri, that'sKansas.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
Wait, the edge of the states.
Yeah, for like miles, miles andmiles and miles.
I love it.

Speaker 5 (09:48):
So Missouri has maintained this so the line is
right there.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
The line is right where the median is.
I want to go stand on it.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
Sarah told me that businesses will sometimes close
and pop up again on the otherside of the road just to make
use of new tax incentives, andshe even knows of one school
that has its classrooms in onestate and administrative
building in the other.
We continued on our drivetoward downtown, passing through
some really posh areas, so thisis one of Kansas.
City's big boulevards.

(10:15):
I love those houses with thevines climbing up the walls.
Yeah, oh, these are reallypretty.
The town known as Kansas gotits start in the early 1800s,
when French fur traders builtcabins in the area.
By 1869, the Hannibal Bridge,the first rail crossing of the
Missouri River, was completed,and by 1887, there were 15
different railroads passingthrough Kansas City, cementing

(10:39):
it as a national distributionhub.
As the population and economyboomed, many of Kansas City's
downtown iconic buildings wereconstructed, and the wealthy
meatpacking and lumber baronsbuilt their mansions in enclaves
on the outskirts of town.
Now the Kansas City suburbsinclude these areas and beyond,
with a numbered street systemstarting with First Street at

(11:00):
the river and going all the wayout to the 300s south of town.

Speaker 4 (11:05):
That's a neat old hotel right there.
We go to a little bar therethat has jazz.
One thing that's kind of funabout Kansas City is there's so
many jazz bars.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
It's hard to talk about Kansas City without
mentioning one of two things,and the first one is jazz.
The city's central location anda local political boss named
Tom Pendergast, who kept liquorlaws very loosely enforced

(11:36):
during prohibition, made it anatural hotspot for the late
night jam sessions and musicalinnovation that turned Kansas
City jazz into the soundtrack of1920s and 30s America.
Charlie Parker, count Basie andother legends called the city
home, and at one time there weremore than 100 performance
venues, a good number of which,I notice as we begin to head

(11:58):
toward downtown, still existToday.
Kansas City has a robustperforming art scene, with local
and traveling theater, aprofessional ballet company and
several city orchestras,including the jazz orchestra.

Speaker 4 (12:12):
Right down here in front of us.
We'll be driving right into itand we'll pull into a parking
garage.
This is Crown Center, which iswhere Hallmark is headquartered.
Hallmark cards started here andis still here.
So right here there's Legolandand there's an aquarium.
And see, under that tent therein the winter, that's an ice

(12:32):
rink.
Oh, fun.
And this whole area is a hugeChristmas tree all lit up.
I'm going to find a place inthis parking lot.
Let's just park here.
Oh, there's a car wash downthere.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
I've never, seen a car wash in a parking garage
Kansas City is amazing, it'samazing, it's amazing.
According to its website, in theearly 1960s, a blighted area of
abandoned warehouses wastransformed into the Crown
Center, one of the nation'sfirst mixed-use redevelopment
projects, spearheaded byHallmark's CEO and his son.

(13:02):
The area now includes shopping,office, hotel and housing space
covering a total of about 85acres.
And while I know enough aboutthe history of redevelopment in
America to not necessarilyaccept the success stories at
face value, to its credit, Iwasn't able to find much
criticism of the center beyondsome articles over the years
from people who simply didn'tlike it, one thing I definitely

(13:25):
did like the minute I steppedinside oh my gosh.
And I can smell the barbecue.
Oh, that smells so good.
The second thing it's hard notto mention when talking about
Kansas City it's barbecue.

Speaker 4 (13:37):
Kansas City just got a new airport and one of the
things you notice as soon as youstep off a plane is the smell
of barbecue.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
One of the best barbecue places is right by my
house.
I'm one of those people.
I'm like barbecue adjacent.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Sarah admits that it is hard to stay neutral on
barbecue in her hometown wherein the early 1900s, a man named
Henry Perry originated a sweeterstyle of the slow-smoked staple
, using brown sugar, molassesand tomatoes.
Mr Perry sold ribs on pages ofnewspaper for 25 cents a slab
and his restaurant, originallythe back of a trolley barn at

(14:15):
19th and Highland, eventuallybecame a major cultural
touchstone of the city's jazzera.
There are too many restaurantoptions at this point to keep
straight, and while I'm assuredthat some of the best local
barbecue still comes fromunknown spots like the local gas
station, as a tourist you alsocan't go wrong with heavy-hitter
Jack Stack, which has severallocations across town.

(14:35):
After checking out the CrownCenter for a little while, we
decided to go ahead and try andget on a streetcar for a fun day
out and about to see all therest of downtown Kansas City.

Speaker 4 (14:50):
So we can get on.
I think we can hop onto thestreetcar by walking through.
I think we might be in themiddle of all that NFL draft
stuff.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
Oh yeah, that's right I forgot to mention I happened
to be in town at the same timethat the NFL draft was taking
place and we thought it would bea really good idea to try to
see downtown while that wasgoing on.
So is this all getting readyfor the draft?

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, they built that .
That wasn't there two weeks ago, Holy smokes.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Oh, and you've got one.
Did that used to be a hi-it oh?

Speaker 2 (15:25):
gosh, yes, In 1981, there were sky walks like this
and they collapsed during a hugedance event Hundreds of people
died.
It was like one of the firstbig national
architecture-related disastersin the US.
I remember all the way throughcollege I majored in journalism.

(15:46):
The media coverage of that madeit into textbook case studies
of how to cover disasters.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
It felt a little spooky to hear this information.
While we were walking across apedway connecting the part of
the Crown Center we'd been in toa hotel we had to pass through
to find another pedway to get tothe streetcar.
But I think it felt even morespooky that I had never even
heard of this tragedy.
I went to New York Universityfor college and when I lived

(16:14):
there I was really struck by howmany things just disappear.
My freshman year writing classwas in the same building where
the triangle shirt-waste firehappened, but I had no idea
until years later.
Have you ever heard of thegeneral slocum?
It was the city's biggesttragedy until 9-11, but all that
commemorates it now is a statuewith a fountain that doesn't

(16:35):
work in Tompkins Square Park.
Memories fade or we choose toforget, but I think you can only
really appreciate a place onceyou understand the worst of what
it's been through.
And then we came out on theother side.
Oh, it's like a jungle inside,it is it?

Speaker 2 (16:54):
feels like Hawaii up here.
I love it.
It is a little bit loud.
This is a popular spot forwedding receptions.
Oh, I bet, yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Remember that part about the Crown Center replacing
a bunch of factories.
There was also an old limestonecliff that had been used as a
dumping ground, and when theWestin Hotel was built on the
site in 1973, it incorporatedthe cliff into a five-story
atrium with a waterfall and alush garden.
It really was quite beautifuland if I'd had more time in town

(17:26):
I could really see enjoyingsome time there with a coffee
and a book in the morning.
But we had a streetcar to findand, thanks to the NFL Draft,
turning the city inside out,that was proving to be a bit of
a challenge.

Speaker 6 (17:39):
Right here you see the railing.
Yeah, okay, that's steps, andthey just circle down and go
down.
Okay, okay, that's where thecommissioner is going to be.
Down in that area there's adoor they're building some kind
of structure to.
But if you go down the stairs,there's workers there.
You should be able to getthrough.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
I like this.
You're giving us an obstaclecourse.
Yes, I am Okay.

Speaker 6 (18:00):
You get down the steps, turn right.
I mean you'll see theconstruction kind of going on.
There's a hallway.
Just go all the way to thehallway, Maybe it's 20 yards.
Turn left, you'll see green andyou see blue sky my confidence
in our ability is to find thisis waning.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
It's not that I haven't lived in Kansas City for
28 years now.
I should be able to find this.
We can do it.
We can do this.
They could not.
Are we supposed to go all theway down, or just to this one?
He?

Speaker 1 (18:25):
said to take it right Okay.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
So, hello, we're trying to get to the streetcar.
We've been told you're building, but you will let us through.

Speaker 4 (18:31):
Oh, man, the skywalk is this way, Skywalk that's it.

Speaker 2 (18:34):
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (18:34):
Thank you.
They say this is supposed togenerate like a hundred million
dollars in local revenue, andapparently hundreds of thousands
of, whatever the city it's likea hedge maze.

Speaker 1 (18:46):
They could just charge admission to find your
way.
We walked, and walked andwalked for what seemed like
forever.
We ended up at doors thatdidn't go anywhere, hallways
that didn't lead to anything,rooms that were empty with music
playing that was really creepy,and we just kept going and

(19:09):
going until finally, there itwas, the skybridge, or skywalk,
or you know the thing that takesus across the street to where
we're trying to get thestreetcar.
We did it.

Speaker 4 (19:21):
Look at this Yay, here we are somehow.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
Well, they certainly don't waste money air
conditioning this God, this is abit warm Oof.
But then we couldn't figure outhow to get off the thing.
All of the exits were blocked.
Can we get out here?
No, that's crossed off.

Speaker 4 (19:41):
So here's the streetcar Right there.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
Is it even down there ?

Speaker 4 (19:46):
I wonder, man, if it's not.
We got to walk all the way backto the car.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Okay, what are you all looking for?

Speaker 3 (19:54):
Oh, we've had this Around the block, did you?

Speaker 5 (19:59):
find it no.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
Okay.
Well, better luck to you.
Okay, I'm going to look up.

Speaker 4 (20:08):
KC Streetcar and see what the deal is.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
Oh, is this like a museum?
It is.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
Here we go.
All right, the Union StationStreetcar Stop will be closed in
the days leading up to well, wecould walk to the crossroads.

Speaker 4 (20:23):
Stop at 19th and main .

Speaker 1 (20:26):
Okay, not a problem, we've got good company,
comfortable shoes.
There's a neat museum rightahead of us, so we go on through
this museum, which is like asegue between the Skywalk and
the station, and then you walkout into the main station hall.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Isn't that?

Speaker 4 (20:46):
ceiling gorgeous.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
Oh, this is even prettier than Grand Central.

Speaker 4 (20:50):
So this shut down, you know like, oh, I don't know
in the 1960s or 70s, and it wasjust left to fall into disrepair
and they passed a tax.
They got people on both sidesof the state line to pass this
tax which was a miracle, torestore it and reopen it.
And now they have exhibits.
There's a science museum,there's a planetarium Looks like

(21:14):
there's a restaurant up there,there's a theater.
There are several restaurants.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
We spent a while walking around Union Station so
I could get some good pictures.
I love taking pictures and thisplace was really neat.
But everywhere we turned therewere more tents and ropes and
banners for the NFL draftblocking off or covering things
up, and we still weren't reallysure where we were headed.
But I think we were starting tonot really care.

Speaker 4 (21:39):
My husband, local news has been saying stay away
from the Union Station area.

Speaker 2 (21:44):
Well, you know we can .
We don't stay away.

Speaker 1 (21:46):
We're podcast journalists.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
I'm thinking there used to be a footbridge.
There's an IRS thing there is.
There's an IRS office.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
This really is an entire civic center.
It's right by the museum.

Speaker 5 (22:05):
Okay, wait, let's get that.
That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
It's like Mary Potter .
It's Casey Election Board.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
You got the election board in the IRS office in the
same place as the Children'sScience Center in.
Imax Really not a bad idea whenyou think about it.
All right, I'm a littleheartbroken that the Museum of
Illusions is closed because Idon't know if you know this
about me I used to stage manageNew York City's longest running
off Broadway magic show.

Speaker 4 (22:27):
Oh my God, I love that.
We came.
One of our big performing artscenters, which we'll go by if we
can actually get on thestreetcar, had Penn and Teller.
So you stage man that has gotto be of all the things to have
to stage manage.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
I would think a magic show would be one of the
hottest.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
It was really fun and the best part was so I was like
18.
And it was like all these likeold, like grizzled magicians
Well, I mean, they were old tome.
Then I don't know how old theyactually were, they were
probably like in their 40s, Iknow.
But they were all like you know,these older men, and some of
them were like the only peoplein the world that could do the

(23:09):
different tricks that they didwith cars and things.
So we would all go out afterthe show, we would all go out to
eat at the focaccia ria onMcDougal Street and they would
like, and they would like, dotricks.
Yes, they would like do tricksand they would talk about all
these places that they've beenand things that they've done.
And they were so welcoming andI just got to go hang out with
these guys like every Mondaynight.
It was so fun.

Speaker 2 (23:31):
I've only personally ever known one magician, and he
was coming back from work onenight.

Speaker 4 (23:35):
Not a magician job, but like some late night job.
He was a bartender or something.
Now I could be leading astotally astray here she was, but
anyway, he was exhausted and sohe started drifting and he got
pulled over by the police andthe cops pulled him over and
they made him do the you knowwalk and all that Did he start
doing like close-up magic withsome.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
He started doing magic.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
And their jaws are just dropping.
They let him go with a warningand then, like a week later, he
gets this letter in the mailthat says Dear Mr Eberhard, you
don't know my name, but I wasone of the officers who pulled
you over last Saturday night.
You did some card tricks for us.
I am organizing our fraternalorder of police fundraising bank

(24:20):
, oh my gosh, we were wonderingif you would be available to
come and entertain.
So yeah, that's a great story.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
I just love the idea.
Show us your license, take outyour own wallet.
It's inside.
Oh man, at this point we'rejust walking.
I'm not paying any attention towhere we're going, because I
think that Sarah knows and Ithink Sarah wasn't paying
attention because she was reallyhappy talking about magic and
before either of us knew it, welooked up and we were standing

(24:54):
in a train yard.
This looks like the trains inIndia, it does.

Speaker 4 (25:02):
I think it's here for historic value, perhaps.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
I don't think it was an active train yard.
It seems to be on the otherside of a fence, but it was
maybe an old train yard wherethey were storing things
Sleeping car.
I'm sure it's locked, yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
I bet we're not supposed to be on this thing.
Do we want to still try to geton this?
I think we should try to get onthe streetcar.
I think so too.

Speaker 4 (25:35):
We want to walk back to our car and just find some
way to drive over there.
Yeah, that'd be fine.

Speaker 1 (25:41):
To be honest, I think I kind of thought we were
already walking back to the car.
I really don't remember whatwas going on, but we decided
that it looked like we could getto the other side of the train
tracks using another padway thatwould keep us from having to go
back through the maze, so weheaded in that direction.
None of this is closed.
Can we walk up something overhere?

(26:02):
And is this the streetcar?
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (26:05):
Or is that a train?

Speaker 2 (26:06):
That's an Amtrak train that sounds like a train.

Speaker 4 (26:09):
Yeah, that's an Amtrak.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
See, because it kind of looks like there might be
stairs right inside there.
It does.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
Well, you're right, this is open and there appears
to be no one here to stop us.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Oh my gosh, it's a giant train.

Speaker 4 (26:29):
It is a giant train.
Yeah, I'm sure we're notsupposed to be here.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
If there is a stairway right inside here.
If there's not, I think weshould turn around.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 4 (26:45):
Yeah, I don't see a stairway anywhere.
I don't either, but this is socool.
Oh, you know what this is.
This is like the set type shopfor the museum exhibits.
Yes, that's what this is.
There's all this Christmasstuff.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
We better get out of here.
We couldn't find a stairwell,we couldn't get to the padway
and we didn't actually want toget arrested, so we decided to
retrace our steps and go back.
We settled in for a long walk,so you're my new favorite friend
for wandering around abandonedtrain yards with.

Speaker 3 (27:24):
This really wasn't what I had in mind when I
thought oh, let's go show Emilythe city.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
I once had a friend who had a t-shirt made up that
just said event staff and hewould go places, Just walk
around places.
Well, the key thing is you alsohave to carry a clipboard.
Okay, no one will question youif you have a clipboard.

Speaker 4 (27:42):
And then all of a sudden there's the bridge Da I
can't even see there's actuallyan arrow pointing to it.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
Does that mean that we can go this way?
It did not, but we didn't knowthat yet.
Now, this time, we thought wewould do our due diligence and
we actually asked someone whoworked there selling train
tickets if we could get to theother side of the tracks with
this bridge, and they told usyes, so off we went.
But there must have been amiscommunication because, alas,

(28:12):
it was a bridge to nowhere, butit was pretty high up and there
was a really lovely view of thewhole Kansas City skyline and we
pointed out different buildingsand I got to take pictures and
we laughed and it was great.

Speaker 4 (28:30):
That's taking me, beautiful oh neat.
And the view from in there.
See, this side of it is allglass, yeah, and the view from
there is just spectacular ofthis whole lower part of
downtown.
What's it called the KauffmanPerforming Arts Center?
Kauffman Performing Arts Centerthose things behind it are
sculptures on top of aconvention center that stretches

(28:52):
over a highway.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
So sculptures on top of that.

Speaker 4 (28:56):
Yeah, those are the suspension things.
You can kind of see the wires.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
I just think, like if I were a person from like 70
years ago and I saw somethinglike that, you guys I have to
have met 700 years ago, because70 years ago was the 1950s and I
just don't think they wouldhave been that impressed by a
suspension bridge.
I saw something like that.
I'd be like what the hell doyou do that Honestly.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
If you saw something like this, can you imagine Now?

Speaker 1 (29:16):
here, I was still staring dreamily out at the
skyline.
Eventually, however, I didrealize she was talking about
her phone.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
I mean this is magic.
Yes, I mean.
What's the saying?

Speaker 4 (29:28):
Any sufficiently advanced technology is
indistinguishable from magic.
It really kind of is.
I mean, if you were from 100years ago, you would have no
other choice but to think thatis magic.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
You know what's interesting to me too is that
like people make fun of ideas,of things like manifestation and
all of that, but when you thinkabout it, everything that we
have, that exists in this worldtoday, was once manifested.
It was once an idea thatsomeone just continued to
believe in until they brought itto fruition and made it happen.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah, we are living the manifestations of our
ancestors.
This is nice to just stand hereand look, though.
We ended up walking to the carall the way back the way we came
without having technically doneanything, and yet I feel like

(30:19):
we had a pretty good time and wewere still going to get on that
streetcar Until.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
Now, if we had a little kid, we could go to
Legoland and see life.
That's actually cool.
I love aquariums.
They've got one of those cooljellyfish exhibits where you
walk through and it's all dark.

Speaker 3 (30:38):
I've never seen anything like that.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
I didn't even want to go to the aquarium.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
We can do that if you want, but you wouldn't be able
to see the rest of town.

Speaker 2 (30:45):
I don't think it's open, I don't know.
See life.
I have no idea what tickets are.
It's open.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
Let's see how much it is, because it's like $40.
I don't know that.

Speaker 3 (30:59):
I want to see the jellyfish, that much I have no
idea.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
How much is one adult ticket?
$21.99.
Your call Is the jellyfishexhibit open and you like go in
and they're all glowing.
I'm doing it.
Okay, so it starts now, becausethere's fish right there.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
Look at this giant cloudfish.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
I'm actually going to give you a little definitive
vote.

Speaker 5 (31:36):
These are in front or next to almost every single one
of the tanks.
Okay, we'll tell you where it'sfrom, the status and what's
happening around in that place.
Thank you, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
What's your name?
I'm Donovan Donovan.
Thank you, donovan.
Absolutely, it's very cool.
Do you like working here?
I do, actually.

Speaker 5 (31:55):
You guys are all into taking pictures as long as you
know that there's no flash,because that will affect the
fish family.
Yeah, I don't want to botherthem.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
All right.
So that is a giant cloudfish.
It's a Clark's cloudfish.
It lives in coral reefs in theIndo-Pacific Ocean from Japan to
Australia.
They form symbioticrelationships with anemones,
where each provide food andprotection for the other animal.

Speaker 4 (32:15):
One of the tongue twisters I warm up with is mini
anemone season enemy anemone.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
I can't even remember the last time I was in an
aquarium.
It was so beautiful and fun andthere were families everywhere
having a great time and we gotto see all kinds of animals and
read all kinds of things andjust so much stuff that I hadn't
even thought about in ages.
Look at these things.

Speaker 4 (32:45):
Oh my.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
God, those are wait, I know this lionfish.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
Those are hideous.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
Look at their faces.
You know what they remind me ofthe 70s Everything is brown and
orange.
Look at that one.
That's like 1978, right there.
There's a moray eel in heresomewhere.
Oh look, he's inside the tube.
He's in there.
You can see his little stripes.
Look at the ray.
Oh, how cool.
Look at that dude.

(33:13):
If you look at them fromunderneath it looks like they're
smiling Really.
Yeah, they're cute.
Here's one over us.
That one's spied up there.
You can see when he comesthrough his little mouth, his
little smile.
Don't look at him.
He sure did.
That's a podcast.
That's why he's happy.
Feel better, buddy.
And then my favorite part no,it was not even the jellyfish.

(33:35):
You got to pet a starfish so Ican touch these starfish.
Oh, my gosh, okay, they're sopretty.
And it wasn't even just seastars, it was like a whole
little menagerie of underwatercreatures.
Is there anything that's goingto pinch me?
Nope, okay, what about that one?

Speaker 5 (33:55):
These are a little shrimp.
They're cleaner shrimp.
Okay, what the heck is that?
That is a slipper lobster.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
And.

Speaker 5 (34:01):
I know he looks like a bunch of you, but actually
slipper.
Lobsters don't have claws orpinchers.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
I trust you, but that one's hard, that was just, I
think it was.

Speaker 5 (34:08):
Bob.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
It's just Bob, guys, just Bob.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Oh, look at this pretty blue and orange one.
Can I touch that one?

Speaker 1 (34:16):
Yeah, you can touch pretty much everybody and I can
lean all the way over and touchhim.
If you can reach him, yeah.

Speaker 4 (34:20):
So do they have sense organs that they can feel when
we touch, like the spiny thing.
Hi bud, Can I?

Speaker 1 (34:25):
touch the blue yeah.

Speaker 5 (34:27):
So you can see it's trying to touch my finger back.
You're free to do it as well,Hi bud.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
You want to hold my hand.
It's true.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
I can feel it.
It kind of closes around.
We're not that different oh wow, I bet you didn't have pet a
sea star in Kansas.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
City on your list.
No, that was not on my list ofthings I thought I would do
today.
Or hold hands with Bob theSlipper Lobster.
That was so worth it, Wasn'tthat fun that was so worth it.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
See, part of my project for myself is to be more
spontaneous.
That's one of the mostspontaneous things I've done in
years when I was in my we needto hang out more.
I was in my mid-twenties, Ispontaneously took a road trip
to Memphis in the middle of thenight.
It was like after midnight whenwe left, and Memphis is a long
fricking drive.

Speaker 4 (35:29):
So we got there at you know like mid-morning and we
were exhausted and found aHoward Johnson's and immediately
crashed and fell asleep.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
But we woke up in the middle of the afternoon and
went to Beale Street and touredGraceland.

Speaker 4 (35:43):
That was like 30 years ago, so it's been that
long since I've done somethingspontaneous.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
Wow, thank you for coming today.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
I think it happened earlier than that next time,
come back in the winter and I'lltake you ice skating.
I love figure skating.
Oh, that's so fun.
I'll teach you to skate if youdon't already know.
You do figure skating.
I do what.
I love it, love it, love it.
So tell me more.
I moved to Kansas.

Speaker 4 (36:02):
City because I wanted to learn to figure skate.
In the city I lived in at thetime had no ice rink, so I got a
job with the Kansas City Starand I moved to Kansas City.
Oh look, there's our car rightthere.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
The way that Sarah shared this like it was just a
little footnote in the story ofher life was mind blowing to me.
Later that evening, when we satdown to talk audio books, I had
to know more, so you told me alittle bit earlier about how you
came to Kansas City.
But let's just start back withcollege and like what is it that

(36:33):
brought you specifically tothis place?
You mentioned figure skating,which is super cool, yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:40):
Yeah, I moved here in 95.
So in about 1994, I was inSpringfield, missouri, which is
down in the Ozarks, beautifulcountry.
But I wanted to be in a biggercity and I wanted to find a
sport, some kind of activitythat I could just lose myself in
.
I always wanted to learn figureskating.

(37:01):
There was no rink inSpringfield, so I had to look in
a bigger city.
So I started interviewing atnewspapers that were owned by
the same company that I workedfor at the time, because you
were in journalism I was injournalism.
I was a copy editor and thecompany I worked for at the time
that owned the Springfieldnewspaper also owned the

(37:24):
Cincinnati Enquirer.
The Louisville Courier Journaldid not own the Kansas City Star
, but Kansas City was relativelyclose to Springfield.
So I interviewed in Kansas Cityand Cincinnati.
The boss in Cincinnati who wasin charge of hiring went on
vacation and in the interimKansas City offered me the job.

(37:44):
So I never even went to theLouisville interview and then
the Cincinnati boss called me,offered me the job.
I'd already accepted KansasCity and one of the people who
trained me in Kansas City wasactually the brother of the
woman in Cincinnati.
You know, that's the wholething about what a small world
it is.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
I was going to say isn't it funny, so many
different little pieces werecoming together to bring you
right here where this has beenhome for how?

Speaker 4 (38:11):
many years now, yeah, almost 30.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
And when did you get into audiobooks?

Speaker 4 (38:21):
I had been in radio in high school.
My very first job in highschool was as a radio announcer.
I was 16.
I worked in radio and collegeended up in newspapers, but I'd
always wanted to get back intovoice work.
So one day in about 2018, I'mflipping through this community
college catalog and there was anitem about a class for learning

(38:44):
to narrate audiobooks.
So I thought I'll bet there's abetter way to go about it.
I bet there's Facebook groupswhere you could start research.
I'll bet there's a very rightway to go about this, and the
right way is going to be theslow, methodical way to learn
about the industry.
So I gave myself like afive-year timeframe.

(39:05):
You just decided this wassomething you wanted to do, so I
decided this is what I wasgoing to do and I very
methodically went in.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
So when you decided that you wanted to move here
because of figure skating, hadyou ever figure skated before?
No, interesting, no.

Speaker 4 (39:20):
I don't yeah, when I decide I get real focused and I
still figure skated to this day.
I love it.
But yeah, I started studyingthe industry and I divided it
into categories listening to topbooks, learning the technical
aspects, industry trends as awhole, performance and

(39:43):
networking.
So those were my five and Itried to spend like every day I
would focus on one or two ofthem, but over the course of a
week you know you're going tohit all of them.
I knew about Audio FileMagazine.
I knew about the Audis, becausewhen you're a copy editor you
know a whole lot about majormagazines covering all these

(40:05):
different industries.
You know, I know that there areprofessional organizations for
all these different industries.
So I knew about the AudioPublishers Association.
So I looked up all the topnarrators, all the audio winners
for the previous 10 years or so, and I joined Audible and I
started buying their books andlistening to those top narrators

(40:26):
.

Speaker 1 (40:27):
Okay, for those of you who are audiobook laypeople
or new to audiobooks, I've gotyou covered.
What Sarah is referring to hereare a few commonly known terms
in the audiobook world.
The first is Audio FileMagazine, which reviews and
recommends audiobooks.
If you're an audiobook fan,check them out.
You might find something new tolisten to.
Second is the Audi Awards,which are kind of treated like

(40:49):
the Academy Awards of Audiobooks.
These are presented by the APAor Audio Publishers Association,
which is pretty much exactlywhat it sounds like Now.
Finally, she mentions Audible,which you almost certainly
already know of if you're a fanof audiobooks.
They're a distribution platformyou've probably given a lot of
money to over the years andthey're now owned by Amazon.

Speaker 4 (41:10):
And then, right about this time, karen Cummins was
starting to put together theNarrators Roadmap stuff, and so
she had a lot of goodinformation for all that.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
Oh, and that's about Karen.
She's a delight.
She put together a wonderfulresource narratorsroadmapcom
which is absolutely somethingthat you want to check out if
you want to get started inaudiobooks.
And never fear, if this feelslike it's a lot of information,
I'll put everything we talkabout in the show notes.

Speaker 4 (41:35):
So I've never been one of these people who jumps
into things.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
I'm like… Unless it's figure skating or audiobooks.

Speaker 4 (41:41):
I mean, I get fixated on what I want to do, but I
don't do it fast.
So I had planned to just kindof study and learn for five
years before I even attempted torecord an audiobook, which I
ended up doing it sooner thanthat.
I've also never been one tothink something's going to be
easy.
Apparently, there are peopleout there who just think it's

(42:02):
reading into a microphone andit's going to be easy, and I
just don't have that afflictionof assuming any… I always assume
things that it's going to be.
I feel you on that one.
There's only one thing in lifethat I ever thought was going to
be easy.
As God, as my witness, Ithought golf would be easy.
Why is golf hard?
I mean, the ball is not evenmoving, it's just sitting there

(42:25):
waiting to get hit and nobody'stackling you or elbowing you out
of the way.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
No, it's all you.
The crowd is not screaming todistract you.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
The crowd is silent.
Shh Ooh, baby quiet.
There's a golf, oh.

Speaker 4 (42:39):
I'm still astonished at how hard golf is.

Speaker 1 (42:43):
I mean, it's fun to drive the cart.
The cart is cool.

Speaker 4 (42:45):
I'll do that yeah okay, I want a Vespa too.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
I also want a motorcycle.

Speaker 4 (42:50):
Oh, those terrify me, but for some reason….

Speaker 1 (42:53):
Chris promised me on my 30th birthday.
I said when I turn 35, I wantyou to give me a motorcycle.
I was like you've got fiveyears.
Wow and and I did not get amotorcycle.
Bring it up in book clubs, seewhat happens.
Okay, casually mentionmotorcycles.
I'm sure we can put thatsomewhere into the next book's

(43:14):
discussion.

Speaker 4 (43:16):
Okay, anyway, where were we?

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Okay, so explain a little bit more about when you
say that you're not someone whousually jumps into things, but
you have these two figureskating and audiobooks.
What is it that happens likeinternally when you make that
decision?

Speaker 4 (43:32):
I don't know where it comes from, but there's this
weird phenomenon I've noticed.
Like all my life I've had thisdream where you're living in a
house and suddenly you discoverall these rooms you've never
used.
Have you ever had that dream?
I have not.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (43:47):
I've had that dream a lot.
What happens?
I'm just walking through thishouse and all of a sudden I'm
discovering all these rooms I'venever used.
But the more of these things Ido in my life like the figure
skating, the audiobook narrationthe less often I have that
dream and the fewer rooms thereare in my house.
When I do have the dream that Ihaven't yet used.

(44:10):
That is incredible.
It's the wildest thing, and Ididn't make this connection for
decades.
But I had that dream as a childwhen I was younger.
It had a whole lot of unusedrooms and now it has fewer.
And every time I add a bigthing in my life or pursue a
path that interests me, likelearning to play an instrument

(44:33):
or traveling to a specificcountry.
That has always been the dream.
The house, the unused rooms aregone.

Speaker 1 (44:46):
That is like I'm going to need to sit with that
for a while.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
I did too when I first.
I am not expecting that to comeout in this interview.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
That's deep Okay.

Speaker 4 (44:59):
It's a lot deeper than.
Oh my God.
Golf is hard.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
But golf carts are nice.
Golf carts are cool, yeah, allright.
So how long into your sort ofself-guided learning process did
it take before you feltcomfortable?
I'm going to invest in a booth.
As you can probably guess,being a home narrator and having
a professional quality soundbooth can be quite expensive, so

(45:25):
it's a leap that many do nottake lightly.
They can really run anywherefrom a couple thousand dollars
up to over 10 grand.

Speaker 4 (45:34):
I had it in my head that I was only ever going to do
nonfiction, because my wholebackground was in journalism, my
background's not in theater orperformance or anything like
that.
I started studying with SeanPratt.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
Sean is a really well-known narrator and coach
who loves nonfiction.

Speaker 4 (45:53):
And I worked with him for it takes like a year and a
half to get through his courserealistically and in the
meantime I was trying to set upa space in this house and no
place would work Too much noise.
This house, it's old, it'screaky, it's got a lot of tile
floors and hardwood floors andit's got two other people living
in it and I'm finally, like youknow, I've got to get a booth

(46:16):
or it's just never going tohappen.
And about that time I wasworking for this company that
had this really robustcybersecurity protocol for all
of us.
We had to take all thesecybersecurity classes and one of
the things they did was theywould send us fake, phishing
emails and that kind of thing tosee if you open it.
The point is an email landed inour inboxes one day saying our

(46:39):
company was being sold and thatthose of us who had been there
since the beginning wereeligible for our stock options
to be exercised.
We all thought it was fake andwe started deleting it because
we'd been getting in trouble foropening attempting sounding
emails.
Well, it turned out to be realand I got stock options, because
I've been with this company fora decade and the stock options

(47:01):
were enough to buy a booth, sothis money just kind of landed
in my lap at an unexpected time.
It's funny how that happens,yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
That's the same way that we got the bar.

Speaker 4 (47:11):
Is it really?

Speaker 1 (47:12):
Yeah, before the COVID-19 pandemic I briefly
owned a bar called Shots.
It was super cute and a ton offun and it taught me some of the
greatest life lessons I'll everlearn.
We actually have a saying nowthat whenever we're like you
know, kind of feeling a littletight on money or something, we
tell each other you never knowwhat's in the mailbox.

(47:35):
Oh, yeah, don't worry,everything's going to be fine.
You never know what's in themailbox.
And like it's now extended tolike anytime we're worried about
something.

Speaker 5 (47:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
And I'm going to say it to each other, because when
some friends approached us withthis business opportunity to go
in and buy this bar with them,we had loved this little place,
we had been there as customers,we thought it was so cute.
We thought why aren't theydoing more with this?
Like?
we've been thinking this forlike a year and a half since we
had moved to this town and thenit went on the market and there

(48:06):
was like a quota on how manyliquor licenses you could get in
the downtown district at thattime.
So if anyone wanted to open abar they could not, but we, in
buying this place, would begrandfathered in with the liquor
license, right.
So it was really kind of aunique opportunity and we looked
at the numbers and we were like, yes, let's do it, why not?

(48:27):
But then when it came time toactually buy it, our partners
both lost their jobs.
So we didn't have enough to buythe bar and we were like, what
are we going to do?
Like, as we're trying to makethis decision, we go and open

(48:47):
the mailbox one day and there isa check for the amount that we
need.
Really, yes.
It was half of the cost of thebar.
Wow, and we were like where theheck did this come from?
Turns out, chris had signed upfor a class action settlement

(49:08):
against Coinstar on behalf ofvisually disabled people in
California, and it was hilariousbecause I distinctly remember
there was a day when he had nomoney.
He was completely broke when helived in California and he was
on SSI and then it would run outat the end of the month.
Yeah, and he was scrapingchange together to buy food?

Speaker 4 (49:29):
Yeah, my son's on SSI .

Speaker 1 (49:31):
Yeah, and he got all of his coins together and he
went to the Coinstar machine andhe put it in and it gave him an
Eddie Bauer gift card insteadof cash.
Oh my God, and there was no wayto fix it and there was no.
So I distinctly remember thisbecause I had to, like, send him
money or we were dating at thetime and it was.

(49:53):
He was so mad about it.
He ended up giving the EddieBauer gift card to his dad.
But like he needed food and hetook all his coins there to get
money because it was just like abunch of pennies, like you
can't go and pay for food withpennies.
So because of that that one timeand thinking like all the blind
people get screwed over by thisbut no one cares, because

(50:13):
there's only like five of usthat are ever going to say
anything, well, those five orhowever many it was that got the
class action because there wereso few of them.
Yeah, and it wasn't like whenyou send out a thing and it's
like Coca-Cola did this and youmight be entitled to 32 cents.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Right now there's one for Facebook.
Yes, everybody who's ever had aFacebook account.

Speaker 1 (50:33):
And you're going to get like 32 cents in your bank
account, right?
Well, this was thousands ofdollars, wow.
And so when that happened, wejust kind of sat there and were
like this has to be a sign,right, like we should do this,
and we went ahead and bought thebar you never know what's in
the mailbox so you said that thetiming just worked out like so

(50:55):
perfectly for you to get yourbooth.

Speaker 4 (50:59):
Yeah, so I got the booth in August of 2019, a year
after I started researching theindustry and all that I finally
started auditioning and itdidn't take me long to start
getting work.
You know, early on it's royaltyshare stuff and you're trying
to do everything yourself and Ipretty quickly figured out that
I wanted to outsource.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
Okay, what's royalty share?
Well, sometimes when an authoror smaller publisher wants to
produce a book in audio but theydon't want to pay a flat rate
up front, they can contract witha narrator to go ahead and do
the work and then the narratorgets paid with a share of
royalties as the book sells.
It's kind of a gamble for thenarrator.
You could strike it rich with ahit, but you could also end up

(51:42):
getting paid nothing.
So sometimes it's newernarrators who lean toward that
work and others might shy awayfrom it in favor of PFH or
Perfinished Hour, which is paidPerfinished Hour of material,
basically how long the audiobook ends up being.
Now, this is not a commentary onroyalty share.
There are many people who arevery successful with that
strategy.
It does tend to be more of agamble, is really all I'm saying

(52:05):
.
And Sarah also mentionsoutsourcing.
That's basically just payingsomeone else to do any work that
isn't the actual narration ofthe book.
So you would narrate and thenyou might hire someone to edit
the files or to proof them foraccuracy.

Speaker 4 (52:20):
First book I did was.
It was this woman who had whatshe called her sexual awakening
at age 70.
Oh wow, she was 80 when shewrote her memoir and she was
making up for lost time.
A therapist told her to writeerotica.
It was kind of a powerful book.
She had a lot of abuse in herchildhood and it was.
Yeah, it was rough, so Inarrated that.

(52:42):
Then I got another royaltyshare from Fireside, a horror
book.
I love horror stuff.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Fireside is a small audio publisher that specializes
specifically in the horrorgenre.
If you like the spooky stuff,look them up.

Speaker 4 (52:57):
And then I did a couple of learning ally things.

Speaker 1 (53:01):
Learning ally is a non-profit.
They make audio materialsfocusing on literacy and
particularly accessibility forpeople with print disabilities.

Speaker 4 (53:10):
Then I started getting full union scale PFH.
I just stated that was my rateand I have been doing like.
My third or fourth book was afull PFH rate.

Speaker 1 (53:23):
Now, I know, you know what PFH is because you're
smart and you were listening.
But what's union scale?
Okay, like many otherperformers, audio book narrators
can be members of the unionSAG-AFTRA and the different
publishers have contracts withSAG-AFTRA, agreeing to a minimum
.
They will pay per finished hour.
That number is what is meanthere by union scale, though it

(53:44):
does vary some from publisher topublisher, and I'm happy to
report that is all the jargonwe're going to need to cover for
today, and just check out theshow notes if you need a
refresher on any of it.

Speaker 4 (53:55):
I'm about halfway through two series and they're
very different.
They could not be moredifferent.
One is Technodistopian,futuristic Sci-Fi set in Europe.
The other is Christian cowboycountry romance set in Texas.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
I don't know if you've noticed, but neither of
those is non-fiction.

Speaker 4 (54:14):
I know, I know I've got a grand total of two
non-fiction this memoir by thewoman and one for university
press audio books aboutHurricane Katrina.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
So that did not go according to plan no not the way
I thought it would go at all.
Have you enjoyed that you'vedone more fiction?
Yeah, it's fun.

Speaker 4 (54:34):
It really is.
Accents are hard, but you know.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
So how did you meet these people?
Did you follow Sean's course ofauthor reachouts, and that's
how you got these jobs.

Speaker 4 (54:47):
It was pure luck.
I mean, I, the cowboy romanceauthor, I auditioned on ACX for
a book, a single book, and shewrote me and said you know I
don't want you for that book,but I've got this series of 11
books that I'd love to have youdo, oh darn.
So I never did get the one book, but I got 11 other ones.

(55:09):
And then the author fromFinland just reached out and I
opened my email one day and shesaid we've seen your website and
we think you would be perfectfor this 21 book series, but I'm
slow and it takes me longerthan it should.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
Okay, so tell me a little bit more about that,
because all day you have beensaying that you feel like it's
time for you to move on fromaudio books.

Speaker 4 (55:39):
I do.
I'm not good enough at it.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
I don't want you to say that.

Speaker 4 (55:47):
Well, 30 minutes of finished audio a day is really
good for me.
I can't even bring myself tolisten to my own samples.
If I were really going to stickwith this, I'd update my
samples, which do not at allreflect my current skill level.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
Well, but here's a question, Because I didn't know
when I very first started mywebsite when you say, if I stick
with this, I need to do this,do you?
Because what I've heard is thatyou got 33 books out of one
audition.
I know it's crazy.
Basically, yeah.
So my question becomes what'sworking best for you?

Speaker 4 (56:22):
I don't have a lack of material and I'm so grateful
for that, because I seenarrators who are a thousand
times better than me absolutelypanicking because their
schedules are.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
But why do we need to say better or worse?
That's what I don't get.
Why can't we just say you'reworking at the pace you work at
for authors who want you to workfor them and you know there's
going to be something in themailbox and it's working.
Why are you so sure that youneed to quit?

(56:53):
Are you having that feelingthat you need to do something
else?
Or are you just trying to moveaway from something because it
feels hard?

Speaker 4 (57:01):
I think it's the latter.
Don't do that.
Yeah, it's the latter.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
I want to just move away from something because it
feels Well, I can't tell youwhat to do.
You know what to do foryourself far better than I ever
will.
But I just know for me, when Imove away from something without
it being because I'm movingtowards something else, that's
always a big mistake for me.
What always works is whensomething is attracting me and I
actually have a goal To movetowards something.

(57:26):
Yes, to move towards somethingis very different than moving
away from something.
That's what I've found.
I have no idea what works bestfor you.
But, I hate hearing someone sayI'm not going to do anything,
I'm not good enough at this, Ishould quit.

Speaker 4 (57:37):
I just feel so demoralized after a day in the
booth.
I go in there enjoying it atthe beginning and then when I
come out and I've only got 20 or30 minutes done, all these
people who get hours done, dothey not hear the mouth noises
and things like that?
That's what drives me crazy,like right now if I were
recording this.
Listen to me, I need to tellyou.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
But we are recording this.

Speaker 4 (58:04):
I mean, let's see my throat.
I'm getting a little hoarseright here.

Speaker 1 (58:09):
All right.
Well, let's try and just wrapup this portion of things.
So it seems like your audiobookcareer has been encapsulated in
this five years that you've setout for it to happen in.

Speaker 4 (58:19):
Yeah, and it's working out pretty well.
I mean, I did two or threeyears of prep and now I've been
doing two or three years ofrecording and then I'll probably
be done.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
So it was just like a great adventure.
Yeah, yeah, and now it's timeto move on to something else.
I proved myself I could do it.
It's so amazing, though, thatyou have put this much time and
this much effort into somethingthat, just on a whim, you
decided you needed to do, andobviously there is something
like in your soul yeah, yeah,it's wild If you had that.

Speaker 4 (58:54):
If you hesitate to spend time and money on things,
that's another thing.
These people who go in and sayyou must treat this like a
business, not a hobby.
Okay, I was a copy editor forbusiness publications for 20
years.
Most businesses do one thingthey fail.
That's true actually I wentinto this thinking of it as a
business.
Most businesses fail within thefirst five years.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
And when we say most yeah, it's the vast majority.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
It's not just like 55%.

Speaker 2 (59:19):
It's like 90 something.
Yeah, they do.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
So that's actually a really interesting take.

Speaker 4 (59:25):
And I don't break down how many hours this takes
and that takes and how much I'mmaking per hour for all the
effort I put in.
I do it for tax purposes butnot for this.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
There are reasons why it's a good idea to do that
stuff, yeah.

Speaker 4 (59:40):
I mean, I just when we were kids, and I think most
narrators are this way.
We love books.
When we were kids, we would sitfor hours and hours and hours
and just read and read.
I remember having troublestanding up because I would sit
cross-legged as a kid with mybook, and now it's like a page

(01:00:00):
or two and then I'm looking overat my phone.
I'm wanting to check my email.
Why, at nine o'clock at night,I'm not going to reply.
Why am I checking it?

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
The last time that I got lost in a book was probably
2000.
So yeah, you have to think backPillars of the earth.
Oh, I've never read that.
It's like I just couldn't putit down.
It's written in such a way thatyou just keep wanting to know
what happens next.

Speaker 4 (01:00:28):
So it takes place over the course of two or three
generations and it follows theconstruction of this cathedral
and the town that's around itand the people in the town that
whole thing of construction ofcathedrals that fascinated me
when we were in Florence, justto think that there are people
who spent their entire livesbuilding something that they

(01:00:51):
knew they would never seefinished.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
Yeah, it's amazing to have something that you, if
you're willing to devote yourentire life to something, you
don't have to be willing to diefor it.
It's even more impressive ifsomeone is willing to live for
something.

Speaker 4 (01:01:08):
Yeah, I agree, totally agree.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
What would you be willing to do that for?

Speaker 4 (01:01:15):
Oh, I don't know.
I can't even focus on any onevolunteer thing.
I was a volunteer literacytutor for a long time and, man,
I'll tell you, that was aneyeopening experience.
I mean, I mediate my entireworld through print, through
reading.
I mean, from the minute I getup in the morning I read a

(01:01:39):
digital newspaper that's hugeand it's local, national,
international news and I spendtwo hours with that every
morning before I even start myday.
Then my day for decades wascopy editing for eight or 10
hours and then I'd read a bookat night.
Now it's narrating for severalhours and then I read a book at
night.
Then, when you're in asituation where you're teaching

(01:02:02):
someone to read who's never read, it's astonishing how they see
the world.
Some people who are even prettyprofoundly illiterate can
figure out words like so theysee the McDonald's logo and it's
got the word McDonald's andthey know it starts with an M
sound and they see that bigyellow M they associate with
that M sound.

(01:02:23):
When they see that written,they'll make that connection.
But yeah, it's.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
Do you think that that's how your son taught
himself how to read?

Speaker 4 (01:02:32):
I have no idea that whole hyperlexia thing.
It's the functional opposite ofdyslexia and they've done
imaging of kids with autism whohave it and it has something to
do with the structures of thebrain that decode letters.
He pretty much taught himselfbut I read to him constantly and

(01:02:53):
he had this little book calledChicka, chicka, boom, boom that
had the letters of the alphabetin the back of it and it had
capital small, capital small.
I called them Mama A and Baby A, mama B and Baby B and that he
immediately got that Mama Babything.
When I did that I would tracewith his finger these letters

(01:03:18):
and he really enjoyed that, thattactile sense.
I think those two things helped.
But this hyperlexia thing issuper common in kids with autism
.
A lot of kids with autism havea lot of sensory sensitivities.
With my son seeing other kidsthat he would be in special

(01:03:41):
therapy programs with andeverything so profoundly
affected, he hardly has anycompared to some of those people
.
Can we come in Sure, come on in.
How was your?

Speaker 5 (01:03:54):
day Really good.
How was yours Good?

Speaker 4 (01:03:57):
Awesome, I have a couple of songs for you please
Like which ones.

Speaker 5 (01:04:01):
Anything.

Speaker 1 (01:04:02):
Can we do?

Speaker 4 (01:04:02):
that tomorrow Anything doesn't branch grace,
because it's getting late andI'm ready to go to bed and I
think Emily has to.
I guess we won't do it tonight.
I guess it's too late for me toplay covers of songs.
Is this guitar?
You want to play guitar?
Maybe tomorrow?
What songs are you planning onplaying?
I don't know.
I'm going to have her take aguess on the songs on playing.
Oh yeah, he likes to play songsand you have to guess what they

(01:04:23):
are.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
Oh, I can do that, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:04:26):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
Good night.
I hope all goes well for youboth.

Speaker 4 (01:04:30):
Everything will go well for us both, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
That's a nice wish.
I also hope everything goeswell for us both.
I ended up spending anothercouple of days with the nestles.
I had actually been planning togo to a campground, but Sarah
said that I was welcome and theyjust had the kind of home where
you like being.

(01:04:55):
So I said yes and I worked outof their guest room and I
thought about what it would belike for this house, this city,
this spot on the globe, to bethe center of my life for the
last two or three decades.
And there's a thing I'venoticed about myself, being from
Louisville, and I wonder if youcan relate.

(01:05:16):
It's like no matter where elseI've lived or where I go,
there's always this kind of mapin my head that orients me to
where I am and my whole life.
No matter how muchrecalculating this internal GPS
has to do, its orientation isalways in some kind of relation
to how far and which direction Iam from Kentucky.

(01:05:39):
And when I think about how weall have this different nexus of
our universe, no matter what itmight be, it's really no wonder
we all see and experience thewhole world a little differently
.

(01:06:06):
I caught up with Sarah recentlyover Facebook and I was really
interested to see how thingshave been going for her since we
left off.
She let me know that she hasdecided to step away from the
industry, but she's lookingforward to moving toward a
downsized life with her husbandin Lawrence Kansas, a cool
college town she had mentionedto me earlier.

(01:06:27):
They're on a wait list for aplace there that could open up
in two years or ten enough timeto work a little longer, move
toward retirement and helpElijah get his start in the
world.
In the meantime she'll keep herbooth to finish out any current
projects and for possiblevolunteer work.
When they move she's hoping tosell it to another narrator or

(01:06:50):
maybe a podcaster.
She says you can't swing astick these days without hitting
a podcaster.
I asked if she had one pick fora classic road trip song
recommendation Dancing Queen byAbba, because she's pretty sure
she was supposed to be Swedish.
She also wrote those unusedroom dreams are back and I think

(01:07:16):
they're pointing me towardlearning to play the piano.
I found a YouTube channel thatteaches you to play without
reading music, since I can onlyread treble clef from my years
of playing the flute.
So I've been working on that abit and it's super fun.

(01:07:57):
Thank you so much for listeningto the first ever episode of the
Nomad Narrator.
This project has been such adear piece of my heart for many
months now and it is just a realtreat to be able to share it
with everyone.
If you liked what you heardhere today, it would mean so
much to me.
If you could please take 30seconds to do these three things

(01:08:20):
First, please follow thispodcast in your app of choice,
so just go to the show page forthe Nomad Narrator in Apple or
Spotify and click the followbutton and then, second, while
you're there, if you are willingto leave us a five star rating
and review.
And third, if you could sharethis episode with a friend so

(01:08:41):
that they can get in on the funtoo.
Thank you so much, and it issuch an honor to have you as a
listener.
This podcast was created, hostedand produced by me, emily, for
Imperium Productions, expandingthe universe of storytelling.
I want to give a big shout outto my first ever in depth

(01:09:04):
profile guest, sarahSmith-Nessle, and a thank you to
her family for welcoming meinto their home and their lives
for a couple of days, and also avery special thanks to our own
podcast house band Jake and MrStewart.
I'd also like to acknowledgeall of those who've helped the
Nomad Narrator to get on theroad and on the air, including

(01:09:27):
everyone who shared and donatedto the initial GoFundMe campaign
.
The Kentucky Foundation forWomen for a Very Generous Grant.
Second Skin Automotive, whosponsored the Mobile Studio
sound treatment.
Sherwin Williams, who donatedpaint for the mural completed by
Andy Rudloff and a team ofvolunteers at Louisville Visual
Art.
Brett Riley and SarahSibley-Harran for pulling off

(01:09:49):
the world's most epic photoshoot, and Tracy Raffdel for
turning those pictures into ourbeautiful website.
Warren County Public Libraryfor letting us use their
facilities looking for a littletheater company, for opening
their prop and costume closetsto me.
The audiobook accountabilitybuddies for holding my hand
every Tuesday night for the lasttwo years.
Countless other colleagues forlending their support or

(01:10:11):
expertise, most especiallyJennifer Wren Pickens, jessica
Stevens, daniela Messinek, young, elise Arsenal, daniela
Acetelli, byron Wagner, jamesRomick, johnny Howler, guy
Oldfield, robin Lye and KarenCummins.
And finally you.
None of this would meananything without you.

(01:10:32):
Thanks for listening and I'llsee you on down the road.