September 17, 2025 • 54 mins
"Criticism is the cost of entry to success. Most people aren't willing to pay it." This powerful quote sets the stage for a compelling conversation about why nonprofits must embrace business principles to thrive in today's complex landscape.
Our expert panel features Chris Wolf (COO at I Am Boundless), Rich Yanoski (Corporate VP at Merakey), and James Button (President/CEO of Citizens Advocates) – seasoned leaders who've navigated both for-profit and nonprofit worlds. Together, they dismantle the persistent myth that compassion and business acumen can't coexist in mission-driven organizations.
The conversation tackles head-on why nonprofits are sometimes perceived as "well-intentioned but not well-equipped" to operate with rigor. Our guests argue that effective leadership requires holding tension between passion and pragmatism, making tough calls while staying true to mission. They share practical frameworks for evaluating opportunities, knowing when to invest resources, and recognizing when to walk away from initiatives that aren't creating sufficient impact.
Marketing emerges as a particularly crucial yet undervalued function in the nonprofit world. As James notes, "There are people who think marketing is an added expense or perhaps a perk or frill, and it really isn't. It's foundational to what we're doing."
Whether you're an executive director, board member, or emerging nonprofit leader, you'll gain valuable insights about developing stronger business cases, leveraging data effectively, and building organizations that combine passionate advocacy with disciplined operations. As Chris reminds us, "Mission impact is our profit" – and maximizing that impact requires both heart and business savvy.
Subscribe now and join us next month when we explore the power of storytelling to achieve better visibility and attract donors, clients, and partners to your cause.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Scott Light Jr.
Hello everyone and welcome.
We hope that you joined us forour three-part series on
nonprofit mergers in June, julyand August to really set the
stage for our new podcast, theNonprofit Leader's Guide by
Boundless.
If not, be sure to listen onApple, spotify or wherever you
(00:21):
get your podcasts.
And if you love our episodes,please drop us a review.
That'd be great as well.
I'm your host, scott Light.
Before I get to our guests, Ialso want to give you this
little teaser.
We're going to have what wecall a mission moment from CEO
Dr Patrick Maynard coming up atthe end of this episode, so
please stay tuned for that.
(00:43):
Over the next year, we want tobring you thoughts from some of
the most impactful leadersanywhere on health and human
services.
Their real world experience indriving growth and impact and
leading in hard times might justbe that extra dose of
motivation and common sense thatyou need.
Whether you're on the executiveteam or on the board doesn't
matter.
(01:03):
We think that leading thisconversation about the nonprofit
business sector and whatnonprofits should be thinking
about it's really now part ofour overall mission.
We say this a lot here buildinga world that realizes the
boundless potential of allpeople.
So let's get into it withtoday's guests.
I've got some great experts foryou.
(01:23):
Chris Wolfe is a seasonedexecutive in healthcare and
human services, currently thechief operations officer at I Am
Boundless.
Chris has previously heldsignificant roles too, including
a member manager and owner ofTIL Consulting and COO at
ViaQuest.
His expertise encompassesbehavioral health, developmental
(01:44):
disabilities and strategicpartnerships.
Rich Yanowski is Corporate VicePresident, strategic Business
Development at Merikey.
He's been a professional invarious service industries for
more than 20 years and in hiscurrent role Rich has
responsibility for all strategicdevelopment, mergers,
acquisitions and organic programdevelopment for Meraki in
(02:05):
Pennsylvania and also in 12other states.
He also oversees strategicgrowth and development of NHS's
management company and itsoffering of services.
And James Button is with us aswell.
President and CEO of CitizensAdvocates, st Joseph's Addiction
Treatment and Recovery Centersand also the Fieldstone
Foundation.
(02:25):
He holds master's degrees ineducation and clinical social
work from State University ofNew York.
He is focused on improvingaccess and elevating convenience
to life-saving addiction andmental health treatments across
the greater Northeast UnitedStates.
Welcome to all of you.
It's good to see you.
Good to see you.
Thanks for having us.
Let me give our listeners alittle bit of background here,
(02:46):
gentlemen, because I pulled a2024 article from
philanthropyorg and it wastitled why Nonprofits Need to
Adopt a Business Mindset.
So here's one thing that Ipulled from this piece and it
goes like this quote criticismis the cost of entry to success.
Most people aren't willing topay it.
(03:07):
Nonprofits tend to stick towhat's comfortable, but comfort
rarely leads to greatness, endquote.
So I would love to start theconversation there from all
three of you, to get yourreaction, your perspectives, on
that very line.
Chris, do you mind starting usoff?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, it's a great quote.
I think it's a little ironicjust picking up on that first
sentence there.
Advocacy can often feel a lotlike criticism right, when we're
advocating on behalf of folks,we are basically highlighting or
trying to spotlight somethingthat's not quite right or
something that needs to beimproved within our communities
(03:46):
typically, and that's how a lotof nonprofits started, either
recently or even decades ago,like our mission, 40 years plus.
So the irony is that the placewhere many of us got started,
that place of advocacy, is aplace that really spotlighted an
issue that was, in thecommunity, right and basically
identified and criticized thatwe could do more and better.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
James, what do you think about that?
Criticism is the cost of entryto success.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
I think it rings true Whether you're managing,
operating nonprofit programs orworking in another business
sector, we need to stay far fromtimid and we need to embrace
and in fact, run towardscriticism, because when we fall
too in love with our ideas orwe're too passionate about a
concept, that can cost us in thelong run.
(04:36):
So we, as leaders, again,regardless of the sector, we
need to embrace criticism, weneed to be in search of
criticism because it refines ourpoint, it shapes our business
plans and it helps improve ourideas.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Rich.
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (04:51):
I actually think it's interesting because I think the
quote actually encompasses myexperience in transitioning from
a for-profit environment to anon-profit environment 20 years
ago.
The requirements from theenvironment that we work and
operate in right now werecriticized during my evolution
(05:13):
in this industry from theresources needed to provide
integrated health or understandall the data elements that go
into our contracting, orrequirements for the quality of
life for the individuals weserve, the size and magnitude of
organizations that have theability to invest in those and
look a little bit different thanhistorical nonprofits were
(05:36):
criticized over my time periodand now have almost become an
expectation in the reality ofthe environment that we live and
operate in.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Rich, let me have you pick up on the next thing that
I pulled from that article, andit went on to make the case that
short-sightedness is a commonissue with nonprofits and, along
with that, an acceptance ofmediocrity.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
I can understand that point.
I would almost see it from myperspective that
short-sightedness is part of theendemic aspects of this
industry, where most individualshave evolved from a certain
space and a certain backgroundand kind of work experience and
history, and it creates asimilar lens that a lot of
management and leadershipindividuals in the nonprofit
(06:20):
sector operate from.
I do believe that the expansioninto bringing individuals with
different lenses from otherindustries, which would be
similar to what for-profitsmight do, really helps to
eliminate some of that andcreate a more broad perspective
(06:41):
on what it takes to besuccessful in the industry that
we operate in.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Maybe we need to start a little bit higher level
before we speak about nonprofitsbeing potentially short-sighted
.
I mean, let's acknowledge theelephant in the room that
nonprofits historically have hadthis weird reputation.
I mean, I think a lot of peoplesee us as well-intentioned but
not necessarily well-equipped torun with rigor and make tough
(07:11):
calls in business disciplineagain seen in other sectors.
Even the word nonprofit kind ofsends a mixed message.
It suggests that we're heredoing the good work right, but
it also connotes this softnessor lack of willingness to make
(07:31):
tough calls and those qualitieslike selflessness and doing good
work and being compassionate,those are real and they're
valuable in our industry.
We should never change thatabout ourselves.
But caring deeply, beingcompassionate, does not equate
to being short-sighted and itdoesn't prevent us from running
(07:54):
with discipline, focusing onquality and definitely driving
performance.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I like that.
I like that, james, and whatRich had to say.
I like the fact I do believethere is an expectation or a
lowered expectation.
So that's part of the challenge, right, there is just sort of
what people are expecting,though I also agree with Rich's
previous point, which is thosewithin the industry, those who
are contracting, those who arepayers, have much higher
(08:19):
expectations.
But I think it's from theoutside to James's point.
It's sort of like what's theexpectation?
It's just the do-gooders tryingto do good.
But I'll take it a littledifferent direction and just say
I think that ultimately,mediocrity is a leadership issue
and I think it stems from theinability to hold on to tension.
The best way to know if you aretalking about something that's
(08:42):
important is that you feelsomething, that you have an
emotional response to it good orbad, super excited, joy,
intense energy, all the way todread, sadness, fear, whatever
it is.
Those are probably reallyimportant things that are
happening, because that is ourbody's way of saying hey, this
(09:03):
is something really importantand as a leader, you have to
hold on to that tension, right.
But if you're not having thesefeelings throughout the week,
you're likely not doing the workthat's necessary, you're
probably doing pretty mediocrethings or you're probably just
doing the same thing over andover again.
That's comfortable, right?
So holding that tension andunderstanding when to release it
, when to hold on to it longer,is a critical element of any
(09:25):
leader.
You can certainly quicklydispatch a tense issue or tense
matter, but not really resolveit.
And the same with euphoria, youcan continue to lean into
something that's making you feelgood to the point of just ran
off the cliff.
It was a horrible idea at somepoint, but you kept going with
it, right.
So to me, mediocrity really isabout leadership, and I think
(09:46):
that's another level ofsophistication that we're
finding within the nonprofitworld is that leaders for
nonprofit agencies are takingthat acumen seriously, taking
that understanding of leadershipto a different level.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Chris, I love what you said about telling a story
that makes people feel something.
So, james Rich Chris knows alittle bit about my background.
I was in journalism broadcastjournalism for almost 30 years
and I was asked all the time andthen, since I left that
business, what makes a greatsoundbite, and my definition of
(10:20):
that has really never changed.
It is about taking a data point.
That has really never changed.
It is about taking a data pointbut giving it human impact.
That also rolls up intostorytelling, which I think,
which you definitely touched onthere, but getting into the
storytelling, that's the part Ilove.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
And again, I tell my clients these days, if you're
not telling your story, somebodyelse will.
Yeah, as leaders of nonprofitorganizations, we need to be
expert storytellers becausethat's how we convey our message
with influence and impact andtotally resonate with what Chris
is saying and what Rich hassaid today.
(10:59):
Chris was talking aboutdelivering messages with emotion
, evoking emotion.
These are all keycharacteristics that are
requisites of leaders these days, but I think it's also pairing
that off.
I think when we're developingbusiness plans or when we're
trying to approach regulators,maybe even financiers or board
(11:24):
members, we have to share amessage with passion, but also
demonstrate a cool, calm,stoicism as we approach business
decisions.
So it is a real balance there.
We need to be expertstorytellers and we need to
evoke emotion, but we also needto balance that with delivering
(11:46):
business plans and makingbusiness decisions with a cool,
calm, collected thoroughness.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
I agree.
I mean, you know, for mepersonally, the storytelling and
the impact is why Itransitioned into this industry
20 years ago after 10 years andas for-profit a for-profit of
business, as I could operate it.
And I think the unfortunatething is, unless you live it and
see it and are inside of itevery day in organizations like
(12:13):
ours, you don't understand theimpact, and I do think even from
the.
We have to do it verbally andvisually, because the resources
we have to do that from amarketing standpoint and so on
and so forth, are limitedbecause of you know the world we
operate in and our fundingsources and margins are in all
situations aren't necessarilywhat we would aspire them to be
(12:36):
and it's based on theenvironment we operate in.
So I do think the ability tohave that impact and that you
know, emotional intelligenceaspect of what we do and again,
from my perspective, there'snothing more impactful than
seeing that and living that on aday-to-day basis.
(12:56):
But again, I think it'ssomething that we do struggle
with in our industry to be ableto paint that picture for those
that are external to it.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Speaking of impact, I'm going to pull one more thing
from that philanthropyorg story, and there were several
recommendations listed in thatstory.
I want to tick off a few andthen from this little list I've
got about a half dozen or so.
I'd love to get the perspectivefrom all three of you on some
of these, or maybe it's all ofthem or a few, that really
(13:26):
resonate with you.
A couple of recommendationshere Take risks and embrace the
criticism which we've talkedabout.
Building a strong brand thatgets to your story, which we've
talked about.
Treat marketing as aninvestment.
Reward results, not justparticipation.
Build resilience with your team.
Leverage outside talent andthen build a strong planned
(13:50):
giving program.
So out of that list there,james, why don't you start us
off?
Speaker 3 (13:56):
I'll just begin with one of the first treat marketing
as an investment.
As an industry, we have somecatching up to do in and around
marketing and, as Rich mentioned, resources are tight.
I think that nonprofits startedon shoestring budgets.
We're still trying to befiscally austere, responsible
(14:20):
stewards of the funding that wereceive.
And there are, let's face it,there are people in our industry
, there are people in thecommunity who think that
marketing is an added expense orperhaps a perk or a frill, and
it really isn't.
It's so foundational to whatwe're doing.
(14:41):
It's so foundational to whatwe're doing we need to tell our
story, but people need to knowthat we're there and marketing
isn't just an added expense orpotentially a luxury.
It's really, it's key, it'sbusiness critical to getting the
(15:06):
word out there and helpingreach people and bringing more
people into care and helpingpeople to understand that once
they're in care, they're.
These are all the resourcesthat we have to offer available.
So that really resonated withme, really spoke to me, because
I think it's a issue that we asan industry have yet to confront
fully and there's a widevariety of perspectives on it.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Chris jump in.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Sure, yeah, there were a couple that definitely
popped out at me, but I'll pickone.
It's been a new mantra for me ora new way I've been trying to
think about it.
So, number seven build a strongplanned giving program.
I bring that up because, as anonprofit and having worked on
the for-profit side for a whileas well to me, I've started to
(15:48):
think about philanthropy andgiving as sort of the venture
capital of nonprofits, right, sothere's a lot of folks that
invest in order to get profit infor-profit companies that do
the types of work that we do, wehave the advantage of being
able to raise money.
That money is the same kind ofattitudinally to me is the same
(16:11):
as venture capital.
Now it works a littledifferently.
I'm not sure we can get as muchas venture capital might put
into a for-profit organizationto get profit, but even that,
maybe that's again another wayof sort of tilting a little bit
and saying in the oldtraditional nonprofit, where
people are giving, and so if youlook at that as the means
towards investment, if you lookat that as the means towards
(16:33):
enhancement and augmentationsand ways to improve your mission
, it just might be a different,more modern way to look at it
that this really is the venturecapital associated with a
nonprofit.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, chris, if you go out and get a billion dollars
in VC, I don't know ifBoundless will be able to hang
on to you.
Yeah, rich, jump in.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Sure, from my perspective just to pick
something different, a couplethat jumped out at me the reward
results, not just participation.
I look at that from a twofoldlens One as the struggle from an
employee population to reallymake employment engagement and
really create value for theindividuals that we recruit and
(17:13):
try to retain, to make sure thatwe're structuring their
experience with us to where theyhave the opportunity to expand
and grow, not just financiallybut career-wise,
geographically-wise,service-wise, into other areas
from an employee base and anindividual standpoint based on
their efficacy and their results.
(17:34):
And also, you know, one of thethings I think goes back to some
of the earlier conversationabout how nonprofits have been
looked at the historicalsituation where individuals take
contracts or perform in acertain geographic area because
they've always been there orit's historical, I think, an
expansion of really our fundingpartners and the individual
organizations that we work withto really reward results, not
(17:57):
just from a value-basedcontracting standpoint but from
an open-mindedness to allowother organizations that might
have some different ideas on howto create the most appropriate
program for an individual toimprove their quality of life
that maybe doesn't exist on thefee schedule that they currently
have to be kind of open-mindedand willing to commit to a
process to think differently andexpand that, and the other for
(18:22):
me, is to leverage outsidetalent for competitive advantage
.
I think you know one of thebenefits in our organization and
being one of the larger ones inthe industry is that we've been
able to recruit individualsfrom a wide variety of
background and have some ofthose administrative resources
that really help create, youknow, a best-in-class sort of
thinking that you know maybelooks a little dissimilar than
(18:45):
it did 20 years ago in ourindustry but really has created,
you know, a platform for us toexpand and differentiate.
You know how we see the worldand maybe how we, how it impacts
, how we operate in it.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Rich, you hit a good point and in fact we covered in
a couple of episodes agobringing in outside talent to
again bring in just some outsidethoughts, some different
perspective that can help youknow the entire organization.
So that's a very good pointthere.
Chris, why don't you start usoff on this one?
How can nonprofits developthose stronger business cases
(19:19):
going forward?
What are those key elementsthat nonprofits should be
thinking about?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
clearly have a good understanding or a handle on
their mission.
Right, they probably can repeatit.
They probably say it backwards,forwards, all that but how many
of them have really developed astrategic plan?
Again, as we start bringing inmore business acumen?
(19:44):
Not that strategic plansweren't done in the past, but I
can.
I'm old enough to remember thata lot of times when a strategic
plan was being developed, itreally was about creating a new
mission and vision for the nextfive or 10 years, and it was
something you did with boards.
It wasn't something younecessarily did with your
operation focused on how do weplan to expand our mission into
(20:05):
our communities, whatcommunities need us, what are
communities saying about us?
All those different things.
So how do you develop strongbusiness cases and pro formas?
(20:25):
We start off by understandingwhat everyone's getting behind.
Where are the gaps in thecommunity that you basically
have committed yourself to?
Where are your strengths, whereare your challenges and where
can you make the biggest impact?
Business cases you know, I thinkit's a matter of getting in
front of folks and making sureyou've got a business case that
is both reviewed by folks fromyour finance department as well
(20:49):
as folks, maybe from youroperations as well as people,
maybe from revenue cycle.
So that's the other thing isgood pro formas and business
cases have multiple kinds ofprofessionals involved.
Kind of taking it at differentangles and I think someone else
said it earlier, you know thepassion and the emotion around
(21:09):
why we get up every day toimpact our communities drives us
, but the work that you have todo to then execute and implement
is very sobering.
Right, it isn't something thatyou are just, you know, bouncing
off the walls and saying thisis the best pro forma.
You know it is hard work, butit's the passion that you have
for the impact you're going tomake that allows you then to
(21:32):
have that sobering moment withthe professionals that have the
different perspectives, to sitdown and develop a very proper
business.
You campaign in poetry but yougovern in prose.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
And you know, because both of those things are very,
very different, very true, James.
Chris wrapped his comments.
You know his strategic thinkingaround mission.
Where do you land here when itcomes to making that strong
business case for nonprofits?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Well, I just wanted to follow up.
I know we've already spokenabout this balancing act that we
have to perform where we don'tlose our emotion and we
appropriately focus our passionbut we still come off as
credible.
And you know, one of the thingsthat Chris was talking about is
(22:35):
is trying to trying to temperthat emotion in business
planning because, like when wefall in love with our ideas and
we shut out those who tell usthat they think it might not
work, the result is often lessthan optimal and unfortunately,
it's painfully apparent to ourcolleagues, those in the
(22:55):
industry and, more importantly,the communities we serve.
So, you know, for us we try.
If we have like a bold new idea,the first thing we do is find
people to criticize the ideawe're talking about criticism
today Find people who will beatthat idea up for you, with you,
(23:19):
so that you can decide whetheror not it makes sense.
But, even more importantly, westart and end at what's the best
thing that can happen as aresult of this business decision
and what's the worst.
Look, we live in a wild world,even more wild recently and you
(23:41):
know strong plans.
They account for best case,base case and worst case
scenarios, if you know what theworst thing that can happen or
what's the worst case scenariofinancially, reputationally,
even organizationally and youhave a plan to deal with that or
you can live with that, thenyou're going to be in a better
(24:03):
position as a leader, not onlypresenting that business plan
with confidence, but executingon it as well.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Go ahead, Rich.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Yeah, from my perspective, it's really not an
option, it's a must, you know,especially in the current
environment that we are in.
I mean, we know as nonprofitsin the human services,
healthcare industries that weoperate in, there's pressures.
There's federal pressures thatare coming, that are going to
increase, that are going toforce us to be the absolute best
(24:35):
that we can be, and part ofthat is is operating like the
best businesses in the world.
And that means, whether you'rea fortune 500 company or a
nonprofit, that you have tooptimize your resources, you
have to have business practicesthat are lean and you have to
have human capital and othercapital that you are investing
(24:57):
and utilizing in the mostefficient way possible.
Because those pressures exist,I mean, just as any other
organizations, whether you're anonprofit or for-profit.
It's not about chasing thatprofit.
In our area of expertise andwhat we do, it's about ensuring
that the services that weprovide are sustainable and
(25:18):
replicable and scalable to thepoint where we can impact as
many individuals that we can toimprove their quality of life
and make their life as mostmeaningful.
Reinvest in our programs,recruit, you know the type of
staff that we need to do thatand deliver the best outcomes
for the folks that we serve.
(25:38):
And to me again, kind of goingback from my entrance into this
world 20 years ago, those werealmost looked at dynamics that
were in opposition to oneanother and my belief has been
then, and still is today, thatthey're in alignment and that
(26:00):
you give the individuals youserve the highest quality of
life.
You give the employees thatwork with you the highest
quality of life.
You produce the best outcomesby doing the things from a
business standpoint that allowyou the resources and ability to
do that.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Let me ask a two-sided question here.
So one about when shouldnonprofits, you know, really go
after that next opportunity?
How do they determine if that'sworth pursuing?
And then the flip to that wouldbe when should you walk away
from what you thought was anopportunity?
Speaker 4 (26:40):
I would answer your first question and I would say
always as long as you have theresource capacity to do the
analysis on whether that nextopportunity makes sense for you.
I mean, the landscape in theworld that we live in is changed
dramatically and from thatperspective, organizations, as
you see organizations used to beour funding partners now also
(27:02):
be providers and fundingpartners.
You see the expansion ofhealthcare systems and federal
qualified health centers toinclude aspects of service that
10 years ago that they didn'tdeliver but do now.
So you see that landscapechanging and you see the pop-ups
with the CVS and the Amazon andall those individual
competitive landscape changes.
(27:24):
I would say you always pursuethe opportunity if you have the
resources to do it and from thatstandpoint, that opportunity
should be aligned with the cleargoals that you have in mind in
your strategic planning process.
So you have to make sure theyalign with your mission.
You know from the jumpstart.
I mean I think the aspect of itis that they should be
(27:46):
data-driven and I think that's achange in our industry that
maybe didn't exist as much, youknow, when I first came into it,
but now as organizations becomemore sophisticated and the data
drives, not just the outcomes,as we see in some of the
relationships we have.
But the data should drive yourscenario planning, your
sensitivity analysis, yourbusiness plan development.
(28:06):
So that's how I would answerthat Make sure that you know
that the landscape is changingand you're pursuing different
avenues to kind of continue togrow and develop your service
profile.
Make sure it aligns with yourmission and your strategic plan.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
And Rich to that very point.
On the flip to that question,do you, let's say, the data does
change in this ever-changinglandscape?
You've got some sunk costs inthere.
When do you pull back from whatyou thought was an opportunity?
Speaker 4 (28:35):
I mean I think that's , that's a that's a very uh,
individual organization baseddecision.
I mean we, you know there's,there's aspects of that is, is
there another organization youknow, depending upon the
financial impact and the sunkcosts and the the negative roi,
are there other opportunitiesfor the individuals you're
serving in those programs toreceive services in a different
(28:55):
way?
Is your funding partner open toconsidering it in a different
way?
Is there another organizationin that geographic area that is
maybe more expert in thatservice that you could have a
conversation with abouttransitioning effectively those
individuals in that service tothem?
You know what's theadministrative cost component of
that service and if it'sabsorbing an administrative cost
(29:18):
that's maybe higher than theactual program loss and there's
a continuity of service from thecontinuum, then maybe you
continue to run those programs.
I just think there's I don'tthink there's a hard and fast
answer about when you kind ofclose and walk away from a
program.
I think as long as you have adiscrete practice in your
organization through your bothfinancial and quality analysis
(29:40):
to ask and answer thosequestions, then I believe like
the culture of your organizationwill be the aspect that decides
when you make that decision.
I think where organizationsI've seen fall into a really
negative situation and come totalk to us about how we can
(30:00):
potentially help them with thatis when they haven't, along that
path, been asking thosequestions and taking those
points of consideration intoaccount.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
James, I can see you were nodding a lot as Rich was
talking there, so give us yourperspective when to really get
after an opportunity and thenmaybe when to pull back.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yeah, a lot of what Rich and Chris have said really
resonates with me and I think atCitizen Advocates, when we're
evaluating a businessopportunity, we try to really
keep it simple and in fact ifthere was an operating manual I
think it would be good to greatby Jim Collins.
We call it the CA test, thecitizen advocates test.
(30:41):
But it's really four questions,four initial gates that we pass
an idea, a concept through.
That help us evaluate whetheror not we should dig in and kind
of start building pro formasand build support from the board
and other key stakeholders.
But number one is does thisopportunity advance our mission?
(31:02):
What will the opportunity allowfor us to deliver our
life-changing care to additionalpeople or communities in need?
Number two talk about thispassion again, this balance.
Are we passionate about it?
Like?
Are we excited about thispassion?
Again, this balance Are wepassionate about it?
Like, are we excited about thisopportunity?
Just because something'savailable doesn't mean it might
be right for us.
(31:22):
We try to only step intosituations when the work
connects directly to our mission, like we need to be excited
about it.
We also want to deliver aproficient service.
We want to be able to dosomething and do it.
Well, we want to do justice byit.
So we ask ourselves are weproficient in this area of care
(31:47):
delivery?
This one matters a lot becauseif we don't have the expertise
or the infrastructure or eventhe credibility to deliver it at
a high level, like will we takea step back and say, should we
be doing this?
And then again, bedrock kind ofdecision can we do this
sustainably?
(32:07):
And, like Rich was saying, someorganizations come to us and
they're in a spot where they'renot able to deliver a service
sustainably.
So I don't want to say that wewill only look at business
opportunities or expansion orgrowth opportunities that are
sustainable, but we need to beable to get our hands around the
(32:29):
problem, the drivers, theeconomic drivers, the care
required and determine whetheror not those services can be
sustainable, kind of under ourumbrella.
So advance our mission.
Are we excited and energizedabout this?
Can we do service?
Can we offer this with aquality service?
(32:51):
And then, is it sustainable?
These are really the four core,four questions that we call the
CA test.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Okay, chris.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yeah, I think.
I would only add maybe talk alittle bit about sunk costs.
I think Rich and James did agreat job of sort of how you
take a look at it and just themultiple reasons that might go
into it, just so many differentreasons why you might pursue an
opportunity, right, and I thinkthey've covered most of them and
certainly the need for it tomeet some need, meet the
(33:22):
sustainability, impact, themission, et cetera.
As far as sunk costs, I guess Iwould just quickly say that a
lot of ways that we talk aboutit at Boundless is if we do not
have a sustainable program,right so it's losing, doesn't
make margin, doesn't coverexpenses.
We take a look at that and wetry to understand is this where
(33:42):
we want to invest our dollars?
Right, so we are trying to makeimpact to community.
And so part of that analysis issaying well, this is a program
for four people, six people, 10people a year.
How many people are impacted byit?
What community is impacted byit?
Are there other communityproviders that are doing work
here?
Right?
So we take it very seriously,just like I think probably all
(34:05):
of us, not all of our programsare, quote, unquote profitable
but they create benefit, right.
But each time that you look atthose, you have to understand
this is where we're investingour dollars and are we making
the biggest impact, both toourselves and our organization,
as well as to those communities.
It's an investment, and so wehave those hard conversations.
(34:28):
You might have a team somewhere,you might have been there for
two years in that community andyou're like we don't seem to be
catching fire here.
We don't seem to really begetting what we thought was
going to happen here and, moreimportantly, it's a drain on
resources that seems to beimpacting.
You know only a few folks.
I will say that we also make ahabit of if we pull out of
(34:49):
somewhere, you do it the rightway.
A lot of times you'll haveagreements that are 30-day
notice, things of that nature.
That doesn't work for people'slives, right?
So you, when you, when youdecide to hang it up, you are
finding the partner who couldtake this on.
You are talking to those folksthat are impacted.
You are going the extra mile.
Quite honestly, you don't justleave town.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Let's talk about success here a little bit and
what that looks like really atthe ground level and beyond.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Chris, you can maybe cite a story from Boundless or
another nonprofit no-transcript,because everyone's siloed right
(36:11):
, Everyone's got sort of whatthey're trying to do for the kid
and they've got how they can doit and in the end they needed a
provider that was sort ofacross the board, right.
We were non-denominational, wewere supporting the person.
They came with all these otherthings and we took care of all
the things that need to be takencare of.
That was a moment that Iremember our board chair getting
(36:37):
behind.
I remember all of us sayingthis is a huge need.
There had been many, manystories with regards to families
that had adolescents still athome, not adults, but they were
in that phase where they weregoing through adolescence.
They were becoming larger, theywere becoming more challenging
to meet their needs.
(36:57):
Some were becoming more physicalwith regards to those natural
supports in the home.
Some were becoming morephysical with regards to those
natural supports in the home andthere was lots and lots of
stories about kids having to goout of state then because there
weren't providers within Ohiothat could support that, and the
challenge with families whowant to stay connected with
their loved ones, trying toconnect with them, you know, out
(37:18):
of state, let alone if it wassomewhere other part of Ohio,
which is a fairly large state.
So we took that on and said youknow, this is something we need
to do.
This is a gap in the community.
We are going to figure out howto make that work.
Probably didn't have all theanswers, but we felt we had the
right partners on the publicside, we had the right team
internal to boundless.
(37:39):
We had the support from thestrategy and the passion, if you
will, from our board, and whatwe've been able to do is
(38:05):
interesting things and newthings over the last six, seven,
eight years now.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Fantastic James.
How about an example of success?
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Sure, we can speak about an example of success
internally, but also want tojust give kudos to other big
agencies in the sector that areleading the way.
You know, I think we're stillfresh on the Brightly
Centerstone announcement lastmonth.
You know, both of theseorganizations are very large
(38:32):
organizations in and of theirown right and both of them could
have easily remainedindependent, but they realized
that working together they wereable to, like, amplify their
impact and reach more folks andprobably mitigate additional
risk.
So you know, we just applaudthat union, that merger, as a
(38:58):
solid business driven approachand we're seeing examples of
this pop up all over theindustry.
You know, no longer are we, youknow, looking at scrappy kind
of shoestring budget, grassrootsadvocacy efforts.
The industry has matured whereit is expected that people are
(39:21):
making decisions on the bestinterests of their business and
what's in the best interest of ahealth and human service entity
the ability to create andamplify their impact.
So we see a lot of this in thesector and we just wanted to
call it out those people who aremaking a difference.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Rich.
How about an example of successfrom you?
Speaker 4 (39:42):
I think, one that I would like to reference.
I think it brings to bear bothaspects of you know, kind of the
dual aspects of what we'vetalked about today the impact on
the individuals we serve aswell as being a solid financial
impact.
About 12 years ago we noticedin our organization we had a
very fractured and fragmentedpharmacy delivery system to you
(40:06):
know, probably about that time,about 40,000 individuals that we
were serving annually.
So we looked at it and we saidthere's got to be a better
solution for that, for both aquality of care and quality of
life standpoint, as well aspotentially from a business
perspective.
So we searched and we lookedaround and we talked to folks.
We ended up finding a smallclosed-door pharmacy that was
located in the right geographicarea with leadership that had
(40:29):
the kind of right culturalmindset that we thought would be
a good fit for us, and so wetook that opportunity and we
acquired that organizationthrough our management company.
We have had such an impact overthat time on the integrated
whole person care and how thatpharmacy component and their
EMAR is integrated to ourelectronic health record, and
(40:51):
we've since added virtualnursing services where the
nurses are fully integrated, andit's just had tremendous impact
on our outcomes as far as ourpharmacy-related outcomes and as
far as our individuals in care,their quality of life outcomes.
And it's grown whereindividuals within the walls of
(41:12):
Meraki have chosen to utilize itas well, outside of Meraki
where like organizations haveutilized it to grow to a
significant business that youknow.
We talked about before how thefoundation and the plan giving
gives back to the organization.
Another avenue we take iscreate these kind of
complementary or parallelbusinesses and stand those up
(41:33):
and grow them and then theycontribute back to the nonprofit
side and are part of thatgiving to allow the continued
growth and developmentinvestment in the nonprofit
program.
So I think that was one thatserved a dual purpose that we're
very proud of.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Let me see for my last question if I can paint a
little bit of a picture here.
So let's say the three of youare at a conference in a
different state and a nonprofitexecutive comes up to you Maybe
you've met this person before,Maybe they're a complete
stranger, but they're not withinyour organization and that
person starts to share a littlebit more about their mission,
(42:08):
what they do, but then has areal honest moment with you and
says you know what?
We're still struggling, and I'mstruggling as a leader, to be
more proactive on the businessside.
What would be your kind offirst visceral piece of advice
for that executive?
Speaker 4 (42:29):
My initial response would be you know, I again I
think proactive is healthy.
I think it's part of that kindof evolution I've seen in the
industry.
But I also think without theright data points and kind of
foundation, it could bedangerous.
So I would say, when you sayproactive, are you talking about
proactive related to yourstrategic plan and what you've
(42:49):
developed and the kind of goalsand mission that you have, that
you've kind of set?
And then I would say then Iwould.
So my answer would be differentbased on that proactive without
that kind of foundational piece,I would kind of maybe walk them
back a little bit and talkabout the things they need to do
to ensure that the kind ofaggressive, proactive steps that
they want to take are inalignment with their mission and
(43:12):
what they need to do.
Again, I think, as I saidearlier, take and review every
opportunity, but make sure it'saligned with your mission.
I would also say again andwe've talked about this earlier,
talk to as many people you canand bring in as many resources
you can that have diverse anddifferent viewpoints of the
(43:32):
world that we operate in, ormaybe the world outside of what
we operate in, Because I thinkthat's one of the biggest
evolutions that I've seen in my20 years of how many different
people now operate in this spaceand historically, when I first
started working in this space,everyone had that kind of social
services government backgroundand it's much more diverse now
and I think that's createdbetter organizations and better
(43:54):
opportunities for theindividuals that we serve.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Yeah, rich, spot on.
I agree with the data pointsand bringing in outside
perspectives, but I'm going totake a slightly different spin
on it.
You know, one of the issuesthat doesn't get a ton of
airtime and can really limit anorganization is that we forget
that great caregivers,clinicians, don't necessarily
(44:21):
make great leaders without somedevelopment.
And our field is full oftalented advocates and
clinicians that are rising intoleadership roles, and that's a
good thing for sure.
But what made us great, whatmakes us great as caregivers,
won't necessarily make us greatas leaders, and you know like
(44:45):
well, I'll give you an example.
So, caregivers, we thrive offof compassion and discretion and
support.
Well, there are other skillsets that we need as well in
leadership, like setting visionand holding people accountable
and making tough calls.
That may be deeply unpopular Ifwe're not in the process.
(45:07):
And by the time you realize itagain you talk about proactive
it might be too late.
But if we don't begin nowpreparing these emerging leaders
for these kind of shifts,things can really unravel.
When we tap on these folks tobe placed in key roles, boards
lose confidence, teams feelunclear, even financial
(45:31):
discipline slips.
Financial literacy itself isimportant.
So I think that our you know.
My advice to a leader would belike you have the next
generation of leaders probablywithin your organization right
now that they're employed by you.
Take time to give them exposure.
(45:52):
Take time to develop them intoyour next generation of
management and leadership.
Don't necessarily fall for thetrap that because they were an
amazing clinician or an amazingteam lead, that that's
automatically going to translateinto leadership skills to the
(46:13):
conversation, I think, about therestaurant industry.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
You can have the greatest chef running the
kitchen, but if he or she thentries to jump into ownership and
if they don't have thatperspective of running the front
of the house and the back ofthe house and the whole house,
(46:37):
then that restaurant is notgoing to make it, and the data
proves.
I mean, what is it?
It's something like well over50% of restaurants don't make it
.
You know, after that first yearit's really, really hard.
That's a great point.
Chris, close us out here with apiece of great advice for that.
Maybe a struggling nonprofitexecutive out there.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
All right, I'll try to keep it short and sweet.
One.
I think someone's already saidthis, but I'll say it this way
Surround yourself with a teamthat compliments, not echoes,
you right.
So that's that ability to hearother points of view, get things
from the outside, but surroundyourself with a team that
compliments you Know yourself.
You need to have a group offolks who are not echoes, not
(47:17):
echo chambers or mirrors of you.
You will grow from that and youwill have a better conversation
around what you need to bedoing for the business, right.
Last, I'd say we've not reallycalled it out specifically that
we've referenced it severaltimes about being more
data-driven.
If you're trying to be aproactive business, have a
(47:38):
proactive business strategy.
My first question is do youunderstand your data?
You know mission impact is ourprofit and so, like for profits
that count their money forshareholders, we need to be able
to count and measure our impactfor our communities.
Can you do that?
Can you be proactive and saythis is how I solve this problem
, this is how I've identifiedthis problem, and that comes
(47:59):
from data and data management.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
Chris James Rich.
Thank you very much.
This has been a greatconversation and I'm sure our
listeners are gonna get a lotout of it, so thank you again
for joining us.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Thanks, scott.
Thank you, nice seeingeverybody, you as well have a
great day.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
All right, bye-bye now.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Thank you again to all three of you.
I mentioned our mission momentat the beginning of the podcast.
Let's bring you that right nowfrom our CEO, Dr Patrick Maynard
.
Speaker 5 (48:24):
Over the years I've seen our mission come to life
through countless stories ofhope and resilience, and I'm
pleased to share one of thesetoday.
So when I came to theorganization about eight and a
half years ago, it was calledFranklin County Residential
Services and the mission wasabout a page long.
You'd think that that would bepretty precise, but, as is
common in a lot of nonprofits,what that really is is just kind
(48:48):
of not deep and a lot of words,but not really precise about
what it is that we do and why wedo it.
So when we became I AmBoundless.
A couple years later, wechanged the mission to building
a world that realizes theboundless potential of all
people, and what that did is itopened up who we serve and how
(49:08):
we serve them.
So instead of just servingadults with developmental
disabilities in Franklin Countyin residential services, we now
serve people who have physical,mental, developmental challenges
of all types across anygeography and across all
different kinds of services.
So our mission has expanded andgrown in almost a worldwide or
(49:34):
universe-wide setting, and I'mso proud of how our mission has
evolved to do that.
So I want to talk a little bitabout how our role has changed
in enabling the mission, and I'mgoing to tell you a story about
this.
You know, a couple of years ago,when we came together with
Koinonia in Cleveland, rightafter that, we realized that we
(49:54):
had left out a very, veryimportant thing, which was how
do you pay people?
You know, we just assumed thatthings were going to work out
and our payroll system wouldjust be enabled in that system
and everything would be great.
It was coming on Labor Dayweekend and all of a sudden we
realized that payroll was notgoing to go out to several
(50:14):
hundred people all acrosscentral and northern Ohio.
Well, instead of just sittingback and saying oh no, our
leadership came together andrealized we can't have people
going into a holiday weekendwithout getting paid.
We have people who livepaycheck to paycheck and it just
wasn't right.
So we owned it, we owned thatchallenge and the mistake that
(50:35):
was made cars and we drove allover the state personally
delivering, you know,charge-enabled cards to people
at their homes so that thatweekend they had the money to
make it through the weekenduntil we were able to fix the
problem.
And I think that's a goodexample of how we've changed in
(50:56):
our leadership to reflectrealizing the boundless
potential of all people, notjust the people we serve, but
our staff also.
So now I'm going to talk aboutthe future of boundless and our
evolving mission and what Iexpect to change and what I
expect to stay the same and thisis a really good thing to talk
about, because there is so muchgoing on with government policy
(51:16):
and regulations and pay.
There's a lot of angst outthere about the future of our
organization and I can tell youthat what I expect in the future
is more of the same.
Boundloss has become anextremely strong, robust
organization and resilientorganization, and I can't say
that we are immune to fundingbeing cut and things like that,
(51:38):
but we would never go out ofbusiness because of that.
We would just right-size andkeep moving forward.
That's what we're about, that'swhat our culture is and that's
what our mission is about isfinding ways to go up around
over and through and just keepdoing it.
Another thing that I would seeis implementing technology for
efficiencies, better ways toserve people, better ways to do
(51:59):
our business With workforceshortages.
We just can't keep trying,trying, trying to implement
something that doesn't work ifthe bodies aren't there.
So technology is going to be abig part of our future and I
would see that as a way tobetter serve people and
implement our mission.
When I think of my role in termsof enabling the mission of
(52:20):
Boundless, I think it is anever-evolving and transitioning
role, just as our organizationis continually evolving and
changing to grow on our missionto serve more people in better
ways, leadership has to changeaccordingly.
We have to be in front of thatat all times and I think that is
critical that I mentor andreflect that to the organization
(52:43):
and to the people that Isupervise, reflect that to the
organization and to the peoplethat I supervise and mentor in
this organization.
So I'm constantly out and aboutlearning about new ways to
implement leadership.
I'm out and about learningabout what is happening in the
horizon and in the marketplacefor our business so that we can
stay ahead of that, and I teachthat and mentor that to our
(53:04):
leadership team.
We are resilient.
We are always in the forefrontof things and trying to stay in
front of what's happening beforeit happens to us, and I think
that's the strongest forte, thatis a forte of this organization
that we are a leader, not justin Ohio and in our field, but
nationally also, I'm Dr PatrickMaynard, president and CEO of I
(53:26):
Am Boundless, and this is mymission moment.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
Patrick, thank you for that, and to you, our
listeners, thank you as well.
Hey, join us next month for adiscussion on the power of
storytelling to achieve bettervisibility, to attract donors,
clients and even more partnersout there.
Until the next time, this isthe Nonprofit Leader's Guide
podcast, brought to you byBoundless.
(53:51):
Thank you.
Scott Light Jr.
Hello everyone and welcome.
We hope that you joined us forour three-part series on
nonprofit mergers in June, julyand August to really set the
stage for our new podcast, theNonprofit Leader's Guide by
Boundless.
If not, be sure to listen onApple, spotify or wherever you
(00:21):
get your podcasts.
And if you love our episodes,please drop us a review.
That'd be great as well.
I'm your host, scott Light.
Before I get to our guests, Ialso want to give you this
little teaser.
We're going to have what wecall a mission moment from CEO
Dr Patrick Maynard coming up atthe end of this episode, so
please stay tuned for that.
(00:43):
Over the next year, we want tobring you thoughts from some of
the most impactful leadersanywhere on health and human
services.
Their real world experience indriving growth and impact and
leading in hard times might justbe that extra dose of
motivation and common sense thatyou need.
Whether you're on the executiveteam or on the board doesn't
matter.
(01:03):
We think that leading thisconversation about the nonprofit
business sector and whatnonprofits should be thinking
about it's really now part ofour overall mission.
We say this a lot here buildinga world that realizes the
boundless potential of allpeople.
So let's get into it withtoday's guests.
I've got some great experts foryou.
(01:23):
Chris Wolfe is a seasonedexecutive in healthcare and
human services, currently thechief operations officer at I Am
Boundless.
Chris has previously heldsignificant roles too, including
a member manager and owner ofTIL Consulting and COO at
ViaQuest.
His expertise encompassesbehavioral health, developmental
(01:44):
disabilities and strategicpartnerships.
Rich Yanowski is Corporate VicePresident, strategic Business
Development at Merikey.
He's been a professional invarious service industries for
more than 20 years and in hiscurrent role Rich has
responsibility for all strategicdevelopment, mergers,
acquisitions and organic programdevelopment for Meraki in
(02:05):
Pennsylvania and also in 12other states.
He also oversees strategicgrowth and development of NHS's
management company and itsoffering of services.
And James Button is with us aswell.
President and CEO of CitizensAdvocates, st Joseph's Addiction
Treatment and Recovery Centersand also the Fieldstone
Foundation.
(02:25):
He holds master's degrees ineducation and clinical social
work from State University ofNew York.
He is focused on improvingaccess and elevating convenience
to life-saving addiction andmental health treatments across
the greater Northeast UnitedStates.
Welcome to all of you.
It's good to see you.
Good to see you.
Thanks for having us.
Let me give our listeners alittle bit of background here,
(02:46):
gentlemen, because I pulled a2024 article from
philanthropyorg and it wastitled why Nonprofits Need to
Adopt a Business Mindset.
So here's one thing that Ipulled from this piece and it
goes like this quote criticismis the cost of entry to success.
Most people aren't willing topay it.
(03:07):
Nonprofits tend to stick towhat's comfortable, but comfort
rarely leads to greatness, endquote.
So I would love to start theconversation there from all
three of you, to get yourreaction, your perspectives, on
that very line.
Chris, do you mind starting usoff?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, it's a great quote.
I think it's a little ironicjust picking up on that first
sentence there.
Advocacy can often feel a lotlike criticism right, when we're
advocating on behalf of folks,we are basically highlighting or
trying to spotlight somethingthat's not quite right or
something that needs to beimproved within our communities
(03:46):
typically, and that's how a lotof nonprofits started, either
recently or even decades ago,like our mission, 40 years plus.
So the irony is that the placewhere many of us got started,
that place of advocacy, is aplace that really spotlighted an
issue that was, in thecommunity, right and basically
identified and criticized thatwe could do more and better.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
James, what do you think about that?
Criticism is the cost of entryto success.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
I think it rings true Whether you're managing,
operating nonprofit programs orworking in another business
sector, we need to stay far fromtimid and we need to embrace
and in fact, run towardscriticism, because when we fall
too in love with our ideas orwe're too passionate about a
concept, that can cost us in thelong run.
(04:36):
So we, as leaders, again,regardless of the sector, we
need to embrace criticism, weneed to be in search of
criticism because it refines ourpoint, it shapes our business
plans and it helps improve ourideas.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Rich.
What do you think?
Speaker 4 (04:51):
I actually think it's interesting because I think the
quote actually encompasses myexperience in transitioning from
a for-profit environment to anon-profit environment 20 years
ago.
The requirements from theenvironment that we work and
operate in right now werecriticized during my evolution
(05:13):
in this industry from theresources needed to provide
integrated health or understandall the data elements that go
into our contracting, orrequirements for the quality of
life for the individuals weserve, the size and magnitude of
organizations that have theability to invest in those and
look a little bit different thanhistorical nonprofits were
(05:36):
criticized over my time periodand now have almost become an
expectation in the reality ofthe environment that we live and
operate in.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Rich, let me have you pick up on the next thing that
I pulled from that article, andit went on to make the case that
short-sightedness is a commonissue with nonprofits and, along
with that, an acceptance ofmediocrity.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
I can understand that point.
I would almost see it from myperspective that
short-sightedness is part of theendemic aspects of this
industry, where most individualshave evolved from a certain
space and a certain backgroundand kind of work experience and
history, and it creates asimilar lens that a lot of
management and leadershipindividuals in the nonprofit
(06:20):
sector operate from.
I do believe that the expansioninto bringing individuals with
different lenses from otherindustries, which would be
similar to what for-profitsmight do, really helps to
eliminate some of that andcreate a more broad perspective
(06:41):
on what it takes to besuccessful in the industry that
we operate in.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Maybe we need to start a little bit higher level
before we speak about nonprofitsbeing potentially short-sighted
.
I mean, let's acknowledge theelephant in the room that
nonprofits historically have hadthis weird reputation.
I mean, I think a lot of peoplesee us as well-intentioned but
not necessarily well-equipped torun with rigor and make tough
(07:11):
calls in business disciplineagain seen in other sectors.
Even the word nonprofit kind ofsends a mixed message.
It suggests that we're heredoing the good work right, but
it also connotes this softnessor lack of willingness to make
(07:31):
tough calls and those qualitieslike selflessness and doing good
work and being compassionate,those are real and they're
valuable in our industry.
We should never change thatabout ourselves.
But caring deeply, beingcompassionate, does not equate
to being short-sighted and itdoesn't prevent us from running
(07:54):
with discipline, focusing onquality and definitely driving
performance.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I like that.
I like that, james, and whatRich had to say.
I like the fact I do believethere is an expectation or a
lowered expectation.
So that's part of the challenge, right, there is just sort of
what people are expecting,though I also agree with Rich's
previous point, which is thosewithin the industry, those who
are contracting, those who arepayers, have much higher
(08:19):
expectations.
But I think it's from theoutside to James's point.
It's sort of like what's theexpectation?
It's just the do-gooders tryingto do good.
But I'll take it a littledifferent direction and just say
I think that ultimately,mediocrity is a leadership issue
and I think it stems from theinability to hold on to tension.
The best way to know if you aretalking about something that's
(08:42):
important is that you feelsomething, that you have an
emotional response to it good orbad, super excited, joy,
intense energy, all the way todread, sadness, fear, whatever
it is.
Those are probably reallyimportant things that are
happening, because that is ourbody's way of saying hey, this
(09:03):
is something really importantand as a leader, you have to
hold on to that tension, right.
But if you're not having thesefeelings throughout the week,
you're likely not doing the workthat's necessary, you're
probably doing pretty mediocrethings or you're probably just
doing the same thing over andover again.
That's comfortable, right?
So holding that tension andunderstanding when to release it
, when to hold on to it longer,is a critical element of any
(09:25):
leader.
You can certainly quicklydispatch a tense issue or tense
matter, but not really resolveit.
And the same with euphoria, youcan continue to lean into
something that's making you feelgood to the point of just ran
off the cliff.
It was a horrible idea at somepoint, but you kept going with
it, right.
So to me, mediocrity really isabout leadership, and I think
(09:46):
that's another level ofsophistication that we're
finding within the nonprofitworld is that leaders for
nonprofit agencies are takingthat acumen seriously, taking
that understanding of leadershipto a different level.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Chris, I love what you said about telling a story
that makes people feel something.
So, james Rich Chris knows alittle bit about my background.
I was in journalism broadcastjournalism for almost 30 years
and I was asked all the time andthen, since I left that
business, what makes a greatsoundbite, and my definition of
(10:20):
that has really never changed.
It is about taking a data point.
That has really never changed.
It is about taking a data pointbut giving it human impact.
That also rolls up intostorytelling, which I think,
which you definitely touched onthere, but getting into the
storytelling, that's the part Ilove.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
And again, I tell my clients these days, if you're
not telling your story, somebodyelse will.
Yeah, as leaders of nonprofitorganizations, we need to be
expert storytellers becausethat's how we convey our message
with influence and impact andtotally resonate with what Chris
is saying and what Rich hassaid today.
(10:59):
Chris was talking aboutdelivering messages with emotion
, evoking emotion.
These are all keycharacteristics that are
requisites of leaders these days, but I think it's also pairing
that off.
I think when we're developingbusiness plans or when we're
trying to approach regulators,maybe even financiers or board
(11:24):
members, we have to share amessage with passion, but also
demonstrate a cool, calm,stoicism as we approach business
decisions.
So it is a real balance there.
We need to be expertstorytellers and we need to
evoke emotion, but we also needto balance that with delivering
(11:46):
business plans and makingbusiness decisions with a cool,
calm, collected thoroughness.
Speaker 4 (11:52):
I agree.
I mean, you know, for mepersonally, the storytelling and
the impact is why Itransitioned into this industry
20 years ago after 10 years andas for-profit a for-profit of
business, as I could operate it.
And I think the unfortunatething is, unless you live it and
see it and are inside of itevery day in organizations like
(12:13):
ours, you don't understand theimpact, and I do think even from
the.
We have to do it verbally andvisually, because the resources
we have to do that from amarketing standpoint and so on
and so forth, are limitedbecause of you know the world we
operate in and our fundingsources and margins are in all
situations aren't necessarilywhat we would aspire them to be
(12:36):
and it's based on theenvironment we operate in.
So I do think the ability tohave that impact and that you
know, emotional intelligenceaspect of what we do and again,
from my perspective, there'snothing more impactful than
seeing that and living that on aday-to-day basis.
(12:56):
But again, I think it'ssomething that we do struggle
with in our industry to be ableto paint that picture for those
that are external to it.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Speaking of impact, I'm going to pull one more thing
from that philanthropyorg story, and there were several
recommendations listed in thatstory.
I want to tick off a few andthen from this little list I've
got about a half dozen or so.
I'd love to get the perspectivefrom all three of you on some
of these, or maybe it's all ofthem or a few, that really
(13:26):
resonate with you.
A couple of recommendationshere Take risks and embrace the
criticism which we've talkedabout.
Building a strong brand thatgets to your story, which we've
talked about.
Treat marketing as aninvestment.
Reward results, not justparticipation.
Build resilience with your team.
Leverage outside talent andthen build a strong planned
(13:50):
giving program.
So out of that list there,james, why don't you start us
off?
Speaker 3 (13:56):
I'll just begin with one of the first treat marketing
as an investment.
As an industry, we have somecatching up to do in and around
marketing and, as Rich mentioned, resources are tight.
I think that nonprofits startedon shoestring budgets.
We're still trying to befiscally austere, responsible
(14:20):
stewards of the funding that wereceive.
And there are, let's face it,there are people in our industry
, there are people in thecommunity who think that
marketing is an added expense orperhaps a perk or a frill, and
it really isn't.
It's so foundational to whatwe're doing.
(14:41):
It's so foundational to whatwe're doing we need to tell our
story, but people need to knowthat we're there and marketing
isn't just an added expense orpotentially a luxury.
It's really, it's key, it'sbusiness critical to getting the
(15:06):
word out there and helpingreach people and bringing more
people into care and helpingpeople to understand that once
they're in care, they're.
These are all the resourcesthat we have to offer available.
So that really resonated withme, really spoke to me, because
I think it's a issue that we asan industry have yet to confront
fully and there's a widevariety of perspectives on it.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Chris jump in.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Sure, yeah, there were a couple that definitely
popped out at me, but I'll pickone.
It's been a new mantra for me ora new way I've been trying to
think about it.
So, number seven build a strongplanned giving program.
I bring that up because, as anonprofit and having worked on
the for-profit side for a whileas well to me, I've started to
(15:48):
think about philanthropy andgiving as sort of the venture
capital of nonprofits, right, sothere's a lot of folks that
invest in order to get profit infor-profit companies that do
the types of work that we do, wehave the advantage of being
able to raise money.
That money is the same kind ofattitudinally to me is the same
(16:11):
as venture capital.
Now it works a littledifferently.
I'm not sure we can get as muchas venture capital might put
into a for-profit organizationto get profit, but even that,
maybe that's again another wayof sort of tilting a little bit
and saying in the oldtraditional nonprofit, where
people are giving, and so if youlook at that as the means
towards investment, if you lookat that as the means towards
(16:33):
enhancement and augmentationsand ways to improve your mission
, it just might be a different,more modern way to look at it
that this really is the venturecapital associated with a
nonprofit.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, chris, if you go out and get a billion dollars
in VC, I don't know ifBoundless will be able to hang
on to you.
Yeah, rich, jump in.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Sure, from my perspective just to pick
something different, a couplethat jumped out at me the reward
results, not just participation.
I look at that from a twofoldlens One as the struggle from an
employee population to reallymake employment engagement and
really create value for theindividuals that we recruit and
(17:13):
try to retain, to make sure thatwe're structuring their
experience with us to where theyhave the opportunity to expand
and grow, not just financiallybut career-wise,
geographically-wise,service-wise, into other areas
from an employee base and anindividual standpoint based on
their efficacy and their results.
(17:34):
And also, you know, one of thethings I think goes back to some
of the earlier conversationabout how nonprofits have been
looked at the historicalsituation where individuals take
contracts or perform in acertain geographic area because
they've always been there orit's historical, I think, an
expansion of really our fundingpartners and the individual
organizations that we work withto really reward results, not
(17:57):
just from a value-basedcontracting standpoint but from
an open-mindedness to allowother organizations that might
have some different ideas on howto create the most appropriate
program for an individual toimprove their quality of life
that maybe doesn't exist on thefee schedule that they currently
have to be kind of open-mindedand willing to commit to a
process to think differently andexpand that, and the other for
(18:22):
me, is to leverage outsidetalent for competitive advantage
.
I think you know one of thebenefits in our organization and
being one of the larger ones inthe industry is that we've been
able to recruit individualsfrom a wide variety of
background and have some ofthose administrative resources
that really help create, youknow, a best-in-class sort of
thinking that you know maybelooks a little dissimilar than
(18:45):
it did 20 years ago in ourindustry but really has created,
you know, a platform for us toexpand and differentiate.
You know how we see the worldand maybe how we, how it impacts
, how we operate in it.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Rich, you hit a good point and in fact we covered in
a couple of episodes agobringing in outside talent to
again bring in just some outsidethoughts, some different
perspective that can help youknow the entire organization.
So that's a very good pointthere.
Chris, why don't you start usoff on this one?
How can nonprofits developthose stronger business cases
(19:19):
going forward?
What are those key elementsthat nonprofits should be
thinking about?
Speaker 2 (19:23):
clearly have a good understanding or a handle on
their mission.
Right, they probably can repeatit.
They probably say it backwards,forwards, all that but how many
of them have really developed astrategic plan?
Again, as we start bringing inmore business acumen?
(19:44):
Not that strategic plansweren't done in the past, but I
can.
I'm old enough to remember thata lot of times when a strategic
plan was being developed, itreally was about creating a new
mission and vision for the nextfive or 10 years, and it was
something you did with boards.
It wasn't something younecessarily did with your
operation focused on how do weplan to expand our mission into
(20:05):
our communities, whatcommunities need us, what are
communities saying about us?
All those different things.
So how do you develop strongbusiness cases and pro formas?
(20:25):
We start off by understandingwhat everyone's getting behind.
Where are the gaps in thecommunity that you basically
have committed yourself to?
Where are your strengths, whereare your challenges and where
can you make the biggest impact?
Business cases you know, I thinkit's a matter of getting in
front of folks and making sureyou've got a business case that
is both reviewed by folks fromyour finance department as well
(20:49):
as folks, maybe from youroperations as well as people,
maybe from revenue cycle.
So that's the other thing isgood pro formas and business
cases have multiple kinds ofprofessionals involved.
Kind of taking it at differentangles and I think someone else
said it earlier, you know thepassion and the emotion around
(21:09):
why we get up every day toimpact our communities drives us
, but the work that you have todo to then execute and implement
is very sobering.
Right, it isn't something thatyou are just, you know, bouncing
off the walls and saying thisis the best pro forma.
You know it is hard work, butit's the passion that you have
for the impact you're going tomake that allows you then to
(21:32):
have that sobering moment withthe professionals that have the
different perspectives, to sitdown and develop a very proper
business.
You campaign in poetry but yougovern in prose.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
And you know, because both of those things are very,
very different, very true, James.
Chris wrapped his comments.
You know his strategic thinkingaround mission.
Where do you land here when itcomes to making that strong
business case for nonprofits?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Well, I just wanted to follow up.
I know we've already spokenabout this balancing act that we
have to perform where we don'tlose our emotion and we
appropriately focus our passionbut we still come off as
credible.
And you know, one of the thingsthat Chris was talking about is
(22:35):
is trying to trying to temperthat emotion in business
planning because, like when wefall in love with our ideas and
we shut out those who tell usthat they think it might not
work, the result is often lessthan optimal and unfortunately,
it's painfully apparent to ourcolleagues, those in the
(22:55):
industry and, more importantly,the communities we serve.
So, you know, for us we try.
If we have like a bold new idea,the first thing we do is find
people to criticize the ideawe're talking about criticism
today Find people who will beatthat idea up for you, with you,
(23:19):
so that you can decide whetheror not it makes sense.
But, even more importantly, westart and end at what's the best
thing that can happen as aresult of this business decision
and what's the worst.
Look, we live in a wild world,even more wild recently and you
(23:41):
know strong plans.
They account for best case,base case and worst case
scenarios, if you know what theworst thing that can happen or
what's the worst case scenariofinancially, reputationally,
even organizationally and youhave a plan to deal with that or
you can live with that, thenyou're going to be in a better
(24:03):
position as a leader, not onlypresenting that business plan
with confidence, but executingon it as well.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Go ahead, Rich.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Yeah, from my perspective, it's really not an
option, it's a must, you know,especially in the current
environment that we are in.
I mean, we know as nonprofitsin the human services,
healthcare industries that weoperate in, there's pressures.
There's federal pressures thatare coming, that are going to
increase, that are going toforce us to be the absolute best
(24:35):
that we can be, and part ofthat is is operating like the
best businesses in the world.
And that means, whether you'rea fortune 500 company or a
nonprofit, that you have tooptimize your resources, you
have to have business practicesthat are lean and you have to
have human capital and othercapital that you are investing
(24:57):
and utilizing in the mostefficient way possible.
Because those pressures exist,I mean, just as any other
organizations, whether you're anonprofit or for-profit.
It's not about chasing thatprofit.
In our area of expertise andwhat we do, it's about ensuring
that the services that weprovide are sustainable and
(25:18):
replicable and scalable to thepoint where we can impact as
many individuals that we can toimprove their quality of life
and make their life as mostmeaningful.
Reinvest in our programs,recruit, you know the type of
staff that we need to do thatand deliver the best outcomes
for the folks that we serve.
(25:38):
And to me again, kind of goingback from my entrance into this
world 20 years ago, those werealmost looked at dynamics that
were in opposition to oneanother and my belief has been
then, and still is today, thatthey're in alignment and that
(26:00):
you give the individuals youserve the highest quality of
life.
You give the employees thatwork with you the highest
quality of life.
You produce the best outcomesby doing the things from a
business standpoint that allowyou the resources and ability to
do that.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Let me ask a two-sided question here.
So one about when shouldnonprofits, you know, really go
after that next opportunity?
How do they determine if that'sworth pursuing?
And then the flip to that wouldbe when should you walk away
from what you thought was anopportunity?
Speaker 4 (26:40):
I would answer your first question and I would say
always as long as you have theresource capacity to do the
analysis on whether that nextopportunity makes sense for you.
I mean, the landscape in theworld that we live in is changed
dramatically and from thatperspective, organizations, as
you see organizations used to beour funding partners now also
(27:02):
be providers and fundingpartners.
You see the expansion ofhealthcare systems and federal
qualified health centers toinclude aspects of service that
10 years ago that they didn'tdeliver but do now.
So you see that landscapechanging and you see the pop-ups
with the CVS and the Amazon andall those individual
competitive landscape changes.
(27:24):
I would say you always pursuethe opportunity if you have the
resources to do it and from thatstandpoint, that opportunity
should be aligned with the cleargoals that you have in mind in
your strategic planning process.
So you have to make sure theyalign with your mission.
You know from the jumpstart.
I mean I think the aspect of itis that they should be
(27:46):
data-driven and I think that's achange in our industry that
maybe didn't exist as much, youknow, when I first came into it,
but now as organizations becomemore sophisticated and the data
drives, not just the outcomes,as we see in some of the
relationships we have.
But the data should drive yourscenario planning, your
sensitivity analysis, yourbusiness plan development.
(28:06):
So that's how I would answerthat Make sure that you know
that the landscape is changingand you're pursuing different
avenues to kind of continue togrow and develop your service
profile.
Make sure it aligns with yourmission and your strategic plan.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
And Rich to that very point.
On the flip to that question,do you, let's say, the data does
change in this ever-changinglandscape?
You've got some sunk costs inthere.
When do you pull back from whatyou thought was an opportunity?
Speaker 4 (28:35):
I mean I think that's , that's a that's a very uh,
individual organization baseddecision.
I mean we, you know there's,there's aspects of that is, is
there another organization youknow, depending upon the
financial impact and the sunkcosts and the the negative roi,
are there other opportunitiesfor the individuals you're
serving in those programs toreceive services in a different
(28:55):
way?
Is your funding partner open toconsidering it in a different
way?
Is there another organizationin that geographic area that is
maybe more expert in thatservice that you could have a
conversation with abouttransitioning effectively those
individuals in that service tothem?
You know what's theadministrative cost component of
that service and if it'sabsorbing an administrative cost
(29:18):
that's maybe higher than theactual program loss and there's
a continuity of service from thecontinuum, then maybe you
continue to run those programs.
I just think there's I don'tthink there's a hard and fast
answer about when you kind ofclose and walk away from a
program.
I think as long as you have adiscrete practice in your
organization through your bothfinancial and quality analysis
(29:40):
to ask and answer thosequestions, then I believe like
the culture of your organizationwill be the aspect that decides
when you make that decision.
I think where organizationsI've seen fall into a really
negative situation and come totalk to us about how we can
(30:00):
potentially help them with thatis when they haven't, along that
path, been asking thosequestions and taking those
points of consideration intoaccount.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
James, I can see you were nodding a lot as Rich was
talking there, so give us yourperspective when to really get
after an opportunity and thenmaybe when to pull back.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yeah, a lot of what Rich and Chris have said really
resonates with me and I think atCitizen Advocates, when we're
evaluating a businessopportunity, we try to really
keep it simple and in fact ifthere was an operating manual I
think it would be good to greatby Jim Collins.
We call it the CA test, thecitizen advocates test.
(30:41):
But it's really four questions,four initial gates that we pass
an idea, a concept through.
That help us evaluate whetheror not we should dig in and kind
of start building pro formasand build support from the board
and other key stakeholders.
But number one is does thisopportunity advance our mission?
(31:02):
What will the opportunity allowfor us to deliver our
life-changing care to additionalpeople or communities in need?
Number two talk about thispassion again, this balance.
Are we passionate about it?
Like?
Are we excited about thispassion?
Again, this balance Are wepassionate about it?
Like, are we excited about thisopportunity?
Just because something'savailable doesn't mean it might
be right for us.
(31:22):
We try to only step intosituations when the work
connects directly to our mission, like we need to be excited
about it.
We also want to deliver aproficient service.
We want to be able to dosomething and do it.
Well, we want to do justice byit.
So we ask ourselves are weproficient in this area of care
(31:47):
delivery?
This one matters a lot becauseif we don't have the expertise
or the infrastructure or eventhe credibility to deliver it at
a high level, like will we takea step back and say, should we
be doing this?
And then again, bedrock kind ofdecision can we do this
sustainably?
(32:07):
And, like Rich was saying, someorganizations come to us and
they're in a spot where they'renot able to deliver a service
sustainably.
So I don't want to say that wewill only look at business
opportunities or expansion orgrowth opportunities that are
sustainable, but we need to beable to get our hands around the
(32:29):
problem, the drivers, theeconomic drivers, the care
required and determine whetheror not those services can be
sustainable, kind of under ourumbrella.
So advance our mission.
Are we excited and energizedabout this?
Can we do service?
Can we offer this with aquality service?
(32:51):
And then, is it sustainable?
These are really the four core,four questions that we call the
CA test.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
Okay, chris.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yeah, I think.
I would only add maybe talk alittle bit about sunk costs.
I think Rich and James did agreat job of sort of how you
take a look at it and just themultiple reasons that might go
into it, just so many differentreasons why you might pursue an
opportunity, right, and I thinkthey've covered most of them and
certainly the need for it tomeet some need, meet the
(33:22):
sustainability, impact, themission, et cetera.
As far as sunk costs, I guess Iwould just quickly say that a
lot of ways that we talk aboutit at Boundless is if we do not
have a sustainable program,right so it's losing, doesn't
make margin, doesn't coverexpenses.
We take a look at that and wetry to understand is this where
(33:42):
we want to invest our dollars?
Right, so we are trying to makeimpact to community.
And so part of that analysis issaying well, this is a program
for four people, six people, 10people a year.
How many people are impacted byit?
What community is impacted byit?
Are there other communityproviders that are doing work
here?
Right?
So we take it very seriously,just like I think probably all
(34:05):
of us, not all of our programsare, quote, unquote profitable
but they create benefit, right.
But each time that you look atthose, you have to understand
this is where we're investingour dollars and are we making
the biggest impact, both toourselves and our organization,
as well as to those communities.
It's an investment, and so wehave those hard conversations.
(34:28):
You might have a team somewhere,you might have been there for
two years in that community andyou're like we don't seem to be
catching fire here.
We don't seem to really begetting what we thought was
going to happen here and, moreimportantly, it's a drain on
resources that seems to beimpacting.
You know only a few folks.
I will say that we also make ahabit of if we pull out of
(34:49):
somewhere, you do it the rightway.
A lot of times you'll haveagreements that are 30-day
notice, things of that nature.
That doesn't work for people'slives, right?
So you, when you, when youdecide to hang it up, you are
finding the partner who couldtake this on.
You are talking to those folksthat are impacted.
You are going the extra mile.
Quite honestly, you don't justleave town.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Let's talk about success here a little bit and
what that looks like really atthe ground level and beyond.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Chris, you can maybe cite a story from Boundless or
another nonprofit no-transcript,because everyone's siloed right
(36:11):
, Everyone's got sort of whatthey're trying to do for the kid
and they've got how they can doit and in the end they needed a
provider that was sort ofacross the board, right.
We were non-denominational, wewere supporting the person.
They came with all these otherthings and we took care of all
the things that need to be takencare of.
That was a moment that Iremember our board chair getting
(36:37):
behind.
I remember all of us sayingthis is a huge need.
There had been many, manystories with regards to families
that had adolescents still athome, not adults, but they were
in that phase where they weregoing through adolescence.
They were becoming larger, theywere becoming more challenging
to meet their needs.
(36:57):
Some were becoming more physicalwith regards to those natural
supports in the home.
Some were becoming morephysical with regards to those
natural supports in the home andthere was lots and lots of
stories about kids having to goout of state then because there
weren't providers within Ohiothat could support that, and the
challenge with families whowant to stay connected with
their loved ones, trying toconnect with them, you know, out
(37:18):
of state, let alone if it wassomewhere other part of Ohio,
which is a fairly large state.
So we took that on and said youknow, this is something we need
to do.
This is a gap in the community.
We are going to figure out howto make that work.
Probably didn't have all theanswers, but we felt we had the
right partners on the publicside, we had the right team
internal to boundless.
(37:39):
We had the support from thestrategy and the passion, if you
will, from our board, and whatwe've been able to do is
(38:05):
interesting things and newthings over the last six, seven,
eight years now.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Fantastic James.
How about an example of success?
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Sure, we can speak about an example of success
internally, but also want tojust give kudos to other big
agencies in the sector that areleading the way.
You know, I think we're stillfresh on the Brightly
Centerstone announcement lastmonth.
You know, both of theseorganizations are very large
(38:32):
organizations in and of theirown right and both of them could
have easily remainedindependent, but they realized
that working together they wereable to, like, amplify their
impact and reach more folks andprobably mitigate additional
risk.
So you know, we just applaudthat union, that merger, as a
(38:58):
solid business driven approachand we're seeing examples of
this pop up all over theindustry.
You know, no longer are we, youknow, looking at scrappy kind
of shoestring budget, grassrootsadvocacy efforts.
The industry has matured whereit is expected that people are
(39:21):
making decisions on the bestinterests of their business and
what's in the best interest of ahealth and human service entity
the ability to create andamplify their impact.
So we see a lot of this in thesector and we just wanted to
call it out those people who aremaking a difference.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Rich.
How about an example of successfrom you?
Speaker 4 (39:42):
I think, one that I would like to reference.
I think it brings to bear bothaspects of you know, kind of the
dual aspects of what we'vetalked about today the impact on
the individuals we serve aswell as being a solid financial
impact.
About 12 years ago we noticedin our organization we had a
very fractured and fragmentedpharmacy delivery system to you
(40:06):
know, probably about that time,about 40,000 individuals that we
were serving annually.
So we looked at it and we saidthere's got to be a better
solution for that, for both aquality of care and quality of
life standpoint, as well aspotentially from a business
perspective.
So we searched and we lookedaround and we talked to folks.
We ended up finding a smallclosed-door pharmacy that was
located in the right geographicarea with leadership that had
(40:29):
the kind of right culturalmindset that we thought would be
a good fit for us, and so wetook that opportunity and we
acquired that organizationthrough our management company.
We have had such an impact overthat time on the integrated
whole person care and how thatpharmacy component and their
EMAR is integrated to ourelectronic health record, and
(40:51):
we've since added virtualnursing services where the
nurses are fully integrated, andit's just had tremendous impact
on our outcomes as far as ourpharmacy-related outcomes and as
far as our individuals in care,their quality of life outcomes.
And it's grown whereindividuals within the walls of
(41:12):
Meraki have chosen to utilize itas well, outside of Meraki
where like organizations haveutilized it to grow to a
significant business that youknow.
We talked about before how thefoundation and the plan giving
gives back to the organization.
Another avenue we take iscreate these kind of
complementary or parallelbusinesses and stand those up
(41:33):
and grow them and then theycontribute back to the nonprofit
side and are part of thatgiving to allow the continued
growth and developmentinvestment in the nonprofit
program.
So I think that was one thatserved a dual purpose that we're
very proud of.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Let me see for my last question if I can paint a
little bit of a picture here.
So let's say the three of youare at a conference in a
different state and a nonprofitexecutive comes up to you Maybe
you've met this person before,Maybe they're a complete
stranger, but they're not withinyour organization and that
person starts to share a littlebit more about their mission,
(42:08):
what they do, but then has areal honest moment with you and
says you know what?
We're still struggling, and I'mstruggling as a leader, to be
more proactive on the businessside.
What would be your kind offirst visceral piece of advice
for that executive?
Speaker 4 (42:29):
My initial response would be you know, I again I
think proactive is healthy.
I think it's part of that kindof evolution I've seen in the
industry.
But I also think without theright data points and kind of
foundation, it could bedangerous.
So I would say, when you sayproactive, are you talking about
proactive related to yourstrategic plan and what you've
(42:49):
developed and the kind of goalsand mission that you have, that
you've kind of set?
And then I would say then Iwould.
So my answer would be differentbased on that proactive without
that kind of foundational piece,I would kind of maybe walk them
back a little bit and talkabout the things they need to do
to ensure that the kind ofaggressive, proactive steps that
they want to take are inalignment with their mission and
(43:12):
what they need to do.
Again, I think, as I saidearlier, take and review every
opportunity, but make sure it'saligned with your mission.
I would also say again andwe've talked about this earlier,
talk to as many people you canand bring in as many resources
you can that have diverse anddifferent viewpoints of the
(43:32):
world that we operate in, ormaybe the world outside of what
we operate in, Because I thinkthat's one of the biggest
evolutions that I've seen in my20 years of how many different
people now operate in this spaceand historically, when I first
started working in this space,everyone had that kind of social
services government backgroundand it's much more diverse now
and I think that's createdbetter organizations and better
(43:54):
opportunities for theindividuals that we serve.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Yeah, rich, spot on.
I agree with the data pointsand bringing in outside
perspectives, but I'm going totake a slightly different spin
on it.
You know, one of the issuesthat doesn't get a ton of
airtime and can really limit anorganization is that we forget
that great caregivers,clinicians, don't necessarily
(44:21):
make great leaders without somedevelopment.
And our field is full oftalented advocates and
clinicians that are rising intoleadership roles, and that's a
good thing for sure.
But what made us great, whatmakes us great as caregivers,
won't necessarily make us greatas leaders, and you know like
(44:45):
well, I'll give you an example.
So, caregivers, we thrive offof compassion and discretion and
support.
Well, there are other skillsets that we need as well in
leadership, like setting visionand holding people accountable
and making tough calls.
That may be deeply unpopular Ifwe're not in the process.
(45:07):
And by the time you realize itagain you talk about proactive
it might be too late.
But if we don't begin nowpreparing these emerging leaders
for these kind of shifts,things can really unravel.
When we tap on these folks tobe placed in key roles, boards
lose confidence, teams feelunclear, even financial
(45:31):
discipline slips.
Financial literacy itself isimportant.
So I think that our you know.
My advice to a leader would belike you have the next
generation of leaders probablywithin your organization right
now that they're employed by you.
Take time to give them exposure.
(45:52):
Take time to develop them intoyour next generation of
management and leadership.
Don't necessarily fall for thetrap that because they were an
amazing clinician or an amazingteam lead, that that's
automatically going to translateinto leadership skills to the
(46:13):
conversation, I think, about therestaurant industry.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
You can have the greatest chef running the
kitchen, but if he or she thentries to jump into ownership and
if they don't have thatperspective of running the front
of the house and the back ofthe house and the whole house,
(46:37):
then that restaurant is notgoing to make it, and the data
proves.
I mean, what is it?
It's something like well over50% of restaurants don't make it
.
You know, after that first yearit's really, really hard.
That's a great point.
Chris, close us out here with apiece of great advice for that.
Maybe a struggling nonprofitexecutive out there.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
All right, I'll try to keep it short and sweet.
One.
I think someone's already saidthis, but I'll say it this way
Surround yourself with a teamthat compliments, not echoes,
you right.
So that's that ability to hearother points of view, get things
from the outside, but surroundyourself with a team that
compliments you Know yourself.
You need to have a group offolks who are not echoes, not
(47:17):
echo chambers or mirrors of you.
You will grow from that and youwill have a better conversation
around what you need to bedoing for the business, right.
Last, I'd say we've not reallycalled it out specifically that
we've referenced it severaltimes about being more
data-driven.
If you're trying to be aproactive business, have a
(47:38):
proactive business strategy.
My first question is do youunderstand your data?
You know mission impact is ourprofit and so, like for profits
that count their money forshareholders, we need to be able
to count and measure our impactfor our communities.
Can you do that?
Can you be proactive and saythis is how I solve this problem
, this is how I've identifiedthis problem, and that comes
(47:59):
from data and data management.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
Chris James Rich.
Thank you very much.
This has been a greatconversation and I'm sure our
listeners are gonna get a lotout of it, so thank you again
for joining us.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Thanks, scott.
Thank you, nice seeingeverybody, you as well have a
great day.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
All right, bye-bye now.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Thank you again to all three of you.
I mentioned our mission momentat the beginning of the podcast.
Let's bring you that right nowfrom our CEO, Dr Patrick Maynard
.
Speaker 5 (48:24):
Over the years I've seen our mission come to life
through countless stories ofhope and resilience, and I'm
pleased to share one of thesetoday.
So when I came to theorganization about eight and a
half years ago, it was calledFranklin County Residential
Services and the mission wasabout a page long.
You'd think that that would bepretty precise, but, as is
common in a lot of nonprofits,what that really is is just kind
(48:48):
of not deep and a lot of words,but not really precise about
what it is that we do and why wedo it.
So when we became I AmBoundless.
A couple years later, wechanged the mission to building
a world that realizes theboundless potential of all
people, and what that did is itopened up who we serve and how
(49:08):
we serve them.
So instead of just servingadults with developmental
disabilities in Franklin Countyin residential services, we now
serve people who have physical,mental, developmental challenges
of all types across anygeography and across all
different kinds of services.
So our mission has expanded andgrown in almost a worldwide or
(49:34):
universe-wide setting, and I'mso proud of how our mission has
evolved to do that.
So I want to talk a little bitabout how our role has changed
in enabling the mission, and I'mgoing to tell you a story about
this.
You know, a couple of years ago,when we came together with
Koinonia in Cleveland, rightafter that, we realized that we
(49:54):
had left out a very, veryimportant thing, which was how
do you pay people?
You know, we just assumed thatthings were going to work out
and our payroll system wouldjust be enabled in that system
and everything would be great.
It was coming on Labor Dayweekend and all of a sudden we
realized that payroll was notgoing to go out to several
(50:14):
hundred people all acrosscentral and northern Ohio.
Well, instead of just sittingback and saying oh no, our
leadership came together andrealized we can't have people
going into a holiday weekendwithout getting paid.
We have people who livepaycheck to paycheck and it just
wasn't right.
So we owned it, we owned thatchallenge and the mistake that
(50:35):
was made cars and we drove allover the state personally
delivering, you know,charge-enabled cards to people
at their homes so that thatweekend they had the money to
make it through the weekenduntil we were able to fix the
problem.
And I think that's a goodexample of how we've changed in
(50:56):
our leadership to reflectrealizing the boundless
potential of all people, notjust the people we serve, but
our staff also.
So now I'm going to talk aboutthe future of boundless and our
evolving mission and what Iexpect to change and what I
expect to stay the same and thisis a really good thing to talk
about, because there is so muchgoing on with government policy
(51:16):
and regulations and pay.
There's a lot of angst outthere about the future of our
organization and I can tell youthat what I expect in the future
is more of the same.
Boundloss has become anextremely strong, robust
organization and resilientorganization, and I can't say
that we are immune to fundingbeing cut and things like that,
(51:38):
but we would never go out ofbusiness because of that.
We would just right-size andkeep moving forward.
That's what we're about, that'swhat our culture is and that's
what our mission is about isfinding ways to go up around
over and through and just keepdoing it.
Another thing that I would seeis implementing technology for
efficiencies, better ways toserve people, better ways to do
(51:59):
our business With workforceshortages.
We just can't keep trying,trying, trying to implement
something that doesn't work ifthe bodies aren't there.
So technology is going to be abig part of our future and I
would see that as a way tobetter serve people and
implement our mission.
When I think of my role in termsof enabling the mission of
(52:20):
Boundless, I think it is anever-evolving and transitioning
role, just as our organizationis continually evolving and
changing to grow on our missionto serve more people in better
ways, leadership has to changeaccordingly.
We have to be in front of thatat all times and I think that is
critical that I mentor andreflect that to the organization
(52:43):
and to the people that Isupervise, reflect that to the
organization and to the peoplethat I supervise and mentor in
this organization.
So I'm constantly out and aboutlearning about new ways to
implement leadership.
I'm out and about learningabout what is happening in the
horizon and in the marketplacefor our business so that we can
stay ahead of that, and I teachthat and mentor that to our
(53:04):
leadership team.
We are resilient.
We are always in the forefrontof things and trying to stay in
front of what's happening beforeit happens to us, and I think
that's the strongest forte, thatis a forte of this organization
that we are a leader, not justin Ohio and in our field, but
nationally also, I'm Dr PatrickMaynard, president and CEO of I
(53:26):
Am Boundless, and this is mymission moment.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
Patrick, thank you for that, and to you, our
listeners, thank you as well.
Hey, join us next month for adiscussion on the power of
storytelling to achieve bettervisibility, to attract donors,
clients and even more partnersout there.
Until the next time, this isthe Nonprofit Leader's Guide
podcast, brought to you byBoundless.
(53:51):
Thank you.
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