January 24, 2024 • 48 mins
Take a step toward financial longevity for your nonprofit with David Lopez, a seasoned expert in cultivating cultures of generosity. In our enlightening chat with Dave, senior generosity strategy specialist at Generis, we explore the intricate tapestry of strategies that empower churches and faith-based organizations. You'll learn the ins and outs of nurturing sustainable financial ecosystems, ensuring that your mission thrives not just today, but for years to come.
Did you know that only a fraction of Americans are ready to manage their assets after they pass on? This startling truth brings us to the realm of estate planning and church investments, where we dissect the potential consequences of unpreparedness. Dave Lopez guides us through the looming wealth transfer, discussing the essential steps to safeguard your wishes, and the mission of your organization. We highlight the importance of estate planning as a vital component of financial stewardship, making sure that every dollar is aligned with your legacy and goals.
Finally, we venture into the evolving dynamics of giving and fundraising, from the bricks and mortar of real estate to the digital frontier of cryptocurrencies. Discover how a blend of time-honored methods and cutting-edge innovations can fortify the financial bedrock of your charity or nonprofit. We stress the pivotal role of storytelling in connecting donors with your cause and the collaborative strength that emerges when communities unite in facing challenges. Join us for this transformative journey, and let's maximize the impact together.
Shownotes
The Nonprofit Renaissance is Powered by Vers Creative. An award winning creative agency trusted by global brands and businesses.
Follow @collinhoke
Follow @heredes
Follow @vers_creative
Work with Vers
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Collin (00:08):
Well, hey, what's going on?
Welcome back to the non-profitRenaissance.
We're excited to be jumpingback in with a super special
guest today.
I'm one of your co-hosts, colin.
This is H, and we are superexcited today.
So, h, why don't you tell uswho we're with today?
Heredes (00:24):
Special friend, special guest, and you're in for a
treat today and known him forover two decades, which has got
so many stories.
We may have to do an extendedversion of the podcast, but,
yeah, pg, pg, yeah, pg, please.
There's so many stories, but,pumph, because I know this
episode's going to help you,listening right now and what
you're doing, what you're tryingto accomplish, the money you're
trying to raise, the strategiesyou're trying to implement, but
(00:47):
I'm going to let him tell youwhat he's up to these days,
because he's got so many hats onthat I forget what the latest
one is, but he's done them allsuccessfully and with great,
great impact across the UnitedStates and beyond and abroad.
Actually, because he's done itaround the world, lived in Italy
, he's done mission work acrossthe world.
But, ladies and gentlemen,without further ado, let's cue
the applause for the one andonly Dave Lopez.
(01:09):
Welcome.
Collin (01:10):
Hey, I don't have my button on this one, so I'll put
it in in post, don't worry.
Thank you.
Thank you guys.
Good to go with you guys.
Heredes (01:16):
Big crowd.
David Lopez (01:17):
Big crowd.
Heredes (01:17):
Yeah, big crowd.
Currently senior generositystrategy specialist at Generus.
Yeah Right, Tell what doesGenerus do?
What do you do there?
And then we'll start.
David Lopez (01:27):
So Generus helps churches in the space of
financial development, if youwill.
Advancement, basically to helpchurches, and not just churches,
but like faith-based nonprofitsschools, university seminars,
k-12s, whatever thrivefinancially.
Almost always they're callingus to figure out hey, we need to
expand something, growsomething, build something.
(01:48):
How do we do that?
We help them navigate thosepathways.
Every single entity isdifferent because of context or
culture, so we learn a lot aboutboth and then we craft a
pathway and then we journey withyou through that pathway, man.
Heredes (02:00):
So do you show up and you just give them money.
That's what you do.
No oh okay, so just make thatclear.
David Lopez (02:05):
Because here's the thing.
Heredes (02:05):
Not that easy.
David Lopez (02:06):
We could do that and I guess we could, but I
would not be the bestconsultants for that right.
I guess we could, but reallythe point is you can get a gift,
but if you don't know how tosteward it not just now but for
the long haul then what's thepoint?
And so a lot of times,especially like in the West, the
concept of fundraising is Ineed to build something now and
(02:27):
then that's it.
That's not how you buildculture, that's how you create a
project.
No one's life is changed whenyou build a project.
I mean, yeah, we have hospital,whatever.
But if you can't sustain thatfor, like, the next iteration of
whatever the ministry ororganization is going to be,
then you didn't really grow andyour capacity to impact lives is
either hit a lid or it'sdiminishing.
Heredes (02:49):
Listen, we're going to get into some more fundraising
tips and hacks and tricks andlegal and illegal, so stay tuned
.
This is going to be one minute,hey, yo.
Collin (02:57):
That's the other, the ladders for our subscription,
our subscribers Patreon, Patreon.
We have a Patreon, we're goingto start a Patreon just for this
episode.
David Lopez (03:03):
No we don't, we don't.
Heredes (03:05):
But no, just some context.
David Lopez (03:05):
That's how you fundraise.
By the way, we're doing it.
You're welcome there it is.
We're done, guys.
Thanks for the opportunity.
Heredes (03:12):
But, dave, just some context for our listeners.
You've been an executive pastor, you've been church planter,
started churches you know, haveled at high level missionary,
international missionary, haveled nonprofits.
I remember Hope for Miami,caring for Miami, a donor,
developing writing grants.
Your experience in it has beenintense.
Give us a little insight onwhat you're doing today through
(03:34):
Generus, what you're also doingthrough some of the other
organizations and nonprofitsyou're involved in.
David Lopez (03:39):
So I live in a couple of different spaces.
One is consulting throughGenerus and that's where, again,
nonprofits, churches, helpingthem thrive to meet their
God-sized vision.
I get to partner with otherentities.
One is, in particular, floridaBaptist Financial Services, so
it's still in the area ofstewardship, but it's a very
different thing.
So it's not capital campaignsand those kinds of things.
This is more estate planningand church investments, that
(04:03):
kind of a thing.
Most of the time churches aretrying to figure out how to make
it.
Week to week, the estateplanning conversation or end of
life plan is not checkers butchess.
It's long-term strategicplanning.
So helping people think about aplan, a will, a trust, what
makes sense the data tells usthat about.
I think it's like 14% of the USpopulation has a plan for when
(04:23):
they go home.
I don't know about you, buteveryone's going to go home.
Jesus went home.
He's the one who came back, buteven he went home and if you
don't have a plan in place, I'msorry.
14%.
14% has a plan.
That means 86 do not right?
So when I'm in a room with ahandful of people, it's like,
hey, there's a hundred of us, 15might put their hands up, right
(04:45):
, but here's the hard part aboutit.
Usually the intent is I want toleave something to my kids, to
the people I love, ministries etcetera.
But if you don't have thatclearly spelled out, the
government has a plan for yourstuff and usually it's not
including those people first, ifat all.
So I do some consulting withthem in that space Always
exciting Right now serving as asenior pastor as well.
(05:07):
Cornerstone, miami churchstarted about eight years ago.
Shout out Co-vocational fromday one.
That's kind of been the designon purpose.
Collin (05:16):
I'm a dad, a husband and yeah, you're giving me anxiety,
man Right, it's because you'rea slacker, Colin.
David Lopez (05:22):
You're not.
Collin (05:24):
Listen.
Well, that's next episode.
But oh man you got a lot goingon, man.
David Lopez (05:31):
But it's one of those where you look at the last
15, 20 years and figure likehow did we get here?
When you look back, it's like,okay, god's been working and
building us to get us to thisspot.
Yeah, a lot of learning, a lotof mistakes, that's how we get
here.
Heredes (05:45):
There you go.
Well, let's jump right in there.
End of life, giving planning.
So who's end of life?
The person, the organization,both?
Collin (05:53):
Yeah, because those don't intuitively seem to go
together.
You've got capital campaignsfor like a church and then end
of life planning, and you knowso you know, how does that all
fit together?
David Lopez (06:04):
Yeah.
So I man, I would encourageeveryone to kind of take a step
back from it and just recognizethat at the top of it it's a
stewardship conversation.
Sure, all of it is right.
So we tend to to like put itinto like clean pots.
It's a will or it's capitalcampaign and before any of it,
it's a stewardship thing.
And so if it really is astewardship chat, that's long
(06:24):
term, that's really cultureshaping, culture building for me
and the generations that aregoing to come.
Honestly, they don'tnecessarily have to be so
distinct.
If you're doing a capitalcampaign, you'll find that a lot
of people may not be able tohave huge gifts today, but they
can all make a huge gift whenthey pass, and so there's a way
to connect those dots to abigger vision.
But those gifts won't comeunless you learn to have those
(06:47):
chats, which man I went toseminary at, like almost every
level, and here's what I knowthat conversation of stewardship
, generosity, estate planning,end of life stuff, like there's
no class on that, right yeah.
Collin (07:03):
So for just real quick, for those who maybe the word
stewardship is not in theireveryday vocabulary, that is,
that can be a very a church wordGive, like give a 30 second.
What do you?
When you say stewardship, whatdo you really mean?
David Lopez (07:16):
So what I'm talking about is God has entrusted
everybody, in every space oflife, with responsibilities.
Sometimes it's a relationship,sometimes it's stuff.
We're all called to managethose things and here's how we
know we're not owners, butmanagers.
When we go home to be withJesus, we leave it all behind.
None of it is ours Right.
So how do we manage or stewardour marriages, our kids?
(07:39):
But how do we manage andsteward our work and the
responsibilities entrusted to usin those places?
And then, from the resourcethat God gives to us to build or
to grow our own personal orprofessional ministries, how do
we manage and steward that?
Resources, finances,relationships, that kind of a
thing Great.
Heredes (07:56):
Great, Dave, give us a little bit of the secret sauce
here.
So we're not paying you forthis.
I don't think right.
Collin (08:02):
Colin, I'm not, that's not, you know, that's not.
I don't just make sure, okay,Just making sure that at all
yeah.
Heredes (08:09):
For CFOs listening.
Let them know.
Collin (08:10):
They would never allow me to get close to that.
Heredes (08:14):
Some tips.
So if a leader is listeningright now and that has not
crossed their mind, yeah, wewere talking, I think, in the
next 20 years are we talkingbillions or trillions of money?
David Lopez (08:23):
Yeah, in the next, actually, when the boomers pass
right In the next 15, 20 years,they're anticipating about 32 to
35 trillion passing from onegeneration to the next.
Heredes (08:34):
And where would that go ?
Yes, right, exactly.
So yeah, that's the question toanswer.
David Lopez (08:40):
Yeah, it is the question.
It says the government has aplan.
Collin (08:42):
I think I know their plan with that number.
So every now and then you'llhear people talk about the death
tax.
David Lopez (08:47):
That's what they're referring to, because you've
already paid taxes and all thisstuff and for your kids to get
it, they're going to have to paytaxes on it again, because they
view it as earned income, not agift.
But if you have a plan in place, it's a gift that either has
minimal tax implications or,depending how you structure it,
none Right.
So there's ways around that.
Heredes (09:05):
Okay.
So what do I need to tell mydad and my grandpa right now?
Yeah, here's what I wouldencourage.
David Lopez (09:10):
Every like church leader and every nonprofit
leader.
If you're part of adenomination, your denomination
probably has some kind of afoundation attached to it.
Reach out to them, find outwhat they do.
Most of the time they can comein and do like seminars,
education and those kinds ofthings and they do a lot of the
back end heavy lifting.
Usually we don't get into thatspace because we don't know what
(09:31):
to do.
It's regard it has a lot oflegal stuff.
That's what they do.
If you are a church that'snon-denominational or a
nonprofit that's not connected,there's larger entities that do
these kinds of things.
National Christian Foundationis a national entity, ncf,
philanthropy Corps, a few othersthat just kind of play cross
tribes man.
Reach out to them.
They can help you guys getthose things set up on the back
(09:52):
end.
And just an FYI, the data alsotells us that if you make an
appeal, about 40% of the peoplewill give something to the
appeal.
So I can't tell you how big itis.
But there's a colleague of minethat was working with a
hospital and their average giftwhen people pass was about
$70,000, because people havelife insurance for a million
(10:13):
dollars but they don't haveaccess to it now, but when they
go home people leave stuff.
Well, 50 gifts of 70K praiseGod, that's nice.
Heredes (10:21):
So that's an incentive for them to leave?
Is that what I'm hearing?
Collin (10:26):
No, I can't wait for them to die.
You missed it, man.
You missed it.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
Heredes (10:29):
All right, conspiracytheorycom.
That explains a lot.
Collin (10:34):
So okay, so break it down, just in case it's not
clear enough yet, break it down.
Why is that important forsomething?
Why does that go beyondsomeone's just own personal
finances and personal decisions?
If you have the heart of, Iwant to impact, I love
non-profit.
Why is it important for peopleto start thinking this way now?
David Lopez (10:54):
Yeah, so I think what I would tell.
I'll tell you what I tellpeople when I do some of these
kind of workshops.
Your biggest gift to thekingdom hasn't happened yet.
That's good, your biggest giveactually happens on the day you
go home.
You just don't know it yet.
But without a plan in place, itwill.
(11:15):
You will not.
Your plan of kingdom impactwill not be honored without
clarity.
Your kids don't know and yourgrandkids don't know what's in
here, or in here right, withouthaving something clearly laid
out.
And the other thing that Iwould challenge is like Colin,
do you have kids?
I do.
I got two kids.
Collin (11:33):
Okay, eight, you got five Like 13, so five, Okay so
far.
He's chasing the picture he'sworking out there.
David Lopez (11:41):
Yeah, men like credit, yeah, for the next one.
But one of the things that Iwould encourage you guys to
think about is kid number six orkid number three, and people
are like which kid is that?
Leave something to the churchthat's going to reach your
grandkids or your greatgrandkids.
Leave something to the kingdom,and so usually it's not going
to impact how much I'm going toleave to all of my kids, but
(12:03):
leave something, right?
Yeah, that's that's where Iwould encourage people to think.
And your nonprofit or yourchurch.
I just want you to know that ifpeople have a heart space for
you, they probably have a heartspace for things you do.
People don't give normallybecause we don't ask well.
Yeah, usually it's like areally bad ask or a really cheap
ask.
But if you can ask well throughrelationships and through good
(12:25):
language and conviction andvision, people will leave
something now, but they'll leavesomething bigger when they do
go home.
Collin (12:31):
Can we talk about that?
Ask, Because you know, I'menvisioning maybe kind of like a
pushback of like how could youask someone to do it or how
could like talk about that?
How do organizations,organizations, do that in a, in
a, I don't know, maybe notoffensive way, but in a way that
like that really calls someoneup to something.
(12:52):
You know, does that make sense?
David Lopez (12:53):
Absolutely, man.
One of the things that Iencourage the folks that I work
with to always think throughwhether it's the campaign ask or
the end of life ask or thebigger appeal somewhere in
between.
People give for two reasons.
One, they give because there'sa clear, compelling vision and
then, two, there's permissionbecause of a relationship right.
So the worst thing you can dois ask someone and not have
(13:15):
permission to ask, becausethey're going to look at you and
go.
Hmm, hmm, hmm, they do it everyday at my door and I'm like
right Because you don't havethat right, even if the vision
was awesome, it's like Don'tknow.
You get away from me.
Nonprofit leaders and ministryleaders spend countless hours
crying, consoling, ministering,serving, caring for it, building
(13:39):
like a bucket of trust becauseof relationships, because of
conversations, because ofgatherings, because of service
projects the whole nine.
And In nonprofit world and inchurch world we ask all the time
Can you come and help?
Can you come and serve?
Can you come and lead?
Can you come and follow upWhatever?
And if people didn't want to,they would say no, but they
(14:02):
choose to.
To be honest with you, we leavea lot of research on the table
because we're like man I alreadyasked for so much.
Listen, if that's thehesitation, here's what I would
caution everybody because it's anormal hesitation that I know
comes from a good place, but Ithink it's theologically upside
down.
Jesus asks for our time, heasks for our talent and we do
(14:28):
great jobs in church and inministry asking for both.
But when it comes to the talentpiece right, or the treasure
piece, that's where we're like.
Here's what I would say if hedoesn't have your time, he
doesn't have you, and if hedoesn't have your talent, he
doesn't have you and if hedoesn't have his, your treasure,
he doesn't have you.
Part of our call as ministryleaders, regardless of the space
(14:50):
, church or nonprofit, is toinvite people into the pool
Because, again, end of life.
But it's also what God does inour current lives that changes
and transforms us.
That's part of that culturepiece.
Heredes (15:02):
That's.
That's that's great insight.
And, dave, we spoke a littlebit about his state and about
property.
Dive into that a little bit.
You know we talked aboutthinking, thinking in centuries
and this is a place where youknow Catholic Church in the past
has done great and thinking incenturies Not just thinking for
the moment, temporarily, butholding on to property and
holding on to that legacy thatthey've now left behind,
(15:25):
including a city right, they'vegot a whole city, vatican, in
their name and not too far fromhere.
Not too far, yes exactly.
So tell us about that and anyinsight on that on from folks.
Donating that to a cause orcause is getting rid of those in
the moment Without long-termthinking.
David Lopez (15:44):
Yeah, I mean.
So when it comes to like realestate and property like that,
you'll be surprised what peoplehave.
You've heard people say I'mcash poor but real estate rich,
or something like that.
When they do pass, it's notuncommon to see somebody leave
something to a ministry or achurch, a house or a Field or
(16:04):
something.
All that is real.
Again, if you don't ask, theanswer is always no Sure.
So, yeah, I'd encourage youguys to ask what people give or
what people leave.
That's between them and Jesus.
But if you don't make theappeal, I'll tell you you'd be
shocked who leaves what.
And All the time people willleave all sorts of stuff where
you'll go, huh, a Mickey Manobaseball card, that's where it's
(16:25):
.
Six grand Holy cow baseballcard, praise God.
Or 100 acres in the middle ofthe state that Lenard is hoping
to jump on.
But they can't because now thevaluation of this is up and who
knows what, and it gets left toyour nonprofit or to your church
and what they do with it.
You know that's their businessin terms of selling stuff.
(16:45):
Listen, I, everyone's free todo what they're called to do.
I'll just tell you my personalopinion this is not professional
.
Heredes (16:56):
Yeah, our lawyers have told us to say that, so yeah.
David Lopez (17:00):
I listen.
Here's what I would say.
I would encourage nonprofitsand churches to reconsider, like
different uses of space.
It's not uncommon where, let'ssay, somebody has a hundred
acres oh, we don't need ahundred acres, I know, but
somebody does.
It's easy to take money today,but recognize and I would say
(17:21):
this to all nonprofit and churchleaders that once you sell it,
the likelihood of you being ableto buy it again is not high,
because equity continues to growand price valuation grows with
it and, as it does, not only didour footprint shrink, but our
ability to have a permanentfootprint Right to set a
physical legacy of whateverchurch or ministry is gonna look
(17:42):
like.
That's almost gone because wetook a quick, you know 15 mil or
5 mil or 200 grand or whateverit is when you can think about
reutilizing that space for abetter and higher use.
There's an organization I'veworked with in the past that
there was a church that had like20 acres but they only needed
five and so they actuallybrought this group in and we can
(18:04):
talk about this group offoffline after.
But they came in and they did anassessment of best and highest
use of the property and whatthey told the church was listen,
tap into your equity and put anALF on the furthest side of
your building an ALF.
Churches aren't in the businessof ALF.
He said, just put it on there,we'll bring in a charter entity
(18:24):
to manage it for you.
Now the church not only ownsthat piece of property, they own
the alf, and so the valuationof that corner has gone up.
But annually the ALF pays rentto the church Mmm.
So the church not only did notlose their footprint, but now
they've got income coming infrom a different place to do
more ministry that they couldnot do before without giving up
any of their footprint.
(18:45):
I would just say church isnonprofits.
Listen, before you sellanything, just do the hard work
of what's the best and highestuse.
I know there's money on thetable, but again it might be a
short.
It might be a short term gainand a long term loss.
Heredes (19:00):
Yeah, and surround yourself with something, someone
entrepreneurial, withexperience that's gonna look at
generating, you know, long-termrevenue and an income, not just
someone who knows what an ALF isbecause I know what it is.
People.
They may not know.
That was for you guys.
Why don't you tell them what itis?
Collin (19:18):
He was.
He's correct on that.
It's just a living facility iswhat that is or a soul.
David Lopez (19:23):
Alps in my Googling , hey Siri.
Heredes (19:33):
So let's say, Colin and I we're setting up our, our CNH
foundation.
We got about half a mil got usgoing.
We're helping childrenspecifically ours Get fed.
David Lopez (19:49):
Because, we got seven between us.
Heredes (19:51):
So it's that foundation .
We have a basketball team, yeah, and it costs a lot of money.
What up?
Give me the tips, the tricks,the hacks.
What's the latest?
You're out there seeing whatorganizations are doing, what
churches how they're raising.
Is it still Krispy Kreme donuts?
My question number one, and ifnot, give us a top three, give
us a top three.
David Lopez (20:08):
Yeah.
So I would say there's someoverlap in church world and I
think there's some distinctivesfrom church world and nonprofit
world, right.
So some overlap is wealth isnot distributed equally.
Now, you may not like thatsentiment, I just want you to
know.
Matthew 25, jesus tells us aparable about three dudes.
One guy had five talents, oneguy had two and one guy had one.
(20:31):
And, by the way, just for fullcontext, that chapter is about
the return of Jesus, likethere's a parable before it and
a parable after it.
And then he throws this parableabout stewardship in the mix.
Heredes (20:44):
I'll take, so equality.
David Lopez (20:45):
Well, no, here's what he's saying.
I'm coming back, but before Ido, what you do with your stuff
matters significantly, right?
Anyway, back to the five, thetwo and the one.
Jesus didn't say it's not fairand we gotta overthrow the
system.
Here's what he said.
I'm expecting different results, but I'm expecting equal
(21:07):
obedience.
Right To not call peoplewhether they're low income,
middle income or upper income tosome kind of response and
obedience is not on them, butit's on us as the nonprofit
ministry leaders, right, butthat also implies that we know
who they are.
So hot, take number one.
If you're trying to grow a lotof money really quick, it's not
gonna be through 100 peoplegiving 50 bucks.
(21:27):
It's probably gonna be throughabout five people giving 100
grand.
There's a lot of different waysto do that in terms of tactics,
but again, some of it boilsdown to relationships and then
permission.
Do you have a clear andcompelling vision for C&H
foundation?
Besides, my kids are hungry.
That's very clear and verycompelling to us and it might be
(21:48):
but like why should I careabout C&H?
Heredes (21:50):
right, yeah, sure, because they may date your
daughter one day.
David Lopez (21:55):
They might, but if.
C&h foundation is still there,I'm gonna say, sweetheart,
that's not the man of God foryou.
No, yeah, so you can do theKrispy Kreme, right, and it's
always easier to do that.
But I will tell you, you'regonna spend 30 hours of work
(22:15):
where, if we spent those same 30hours having critical
conversations with, let's say,our mid tier donors and top tier
donors, are potential people.
Man, your return is gonna bemore than, oh, man, we made a
couple hundred bucks on.
Krispy Kreme or spaghettidinners or whatever else we
wanna try, and I think that'sone thing that would be true for
both nonprofit and church world.
(22:35):
Here's what the data tells us10% of your donor base gives
about 70% of the whole.
Say that again 10% of yourdonor base gives about 70% of
the whole, Nationwide.
Heredes (22:45):
you still see that.
David Lopez (22:45):
Man.
We have seen it in white collar, blue collar, we have seen it
in red churches, blue churches.
We have seen it in inner city,urban, sub-urban, rural, and it
doesn't matter if it's whitechurch, black church, hispanic
church, asian church, indianchurch.
It's like everybody got thememo.
When it comes to giving, 10% ofyour donors give about 70% of
(23:06):
the whole.
Then 30% of your donors giveabout 25% of the whole.
Those are your most involvedvolunteers, usually right, your
staff, your deacons, and theneverybody in between, maybe your
board members and your mostcommitted volunteers.
That's them.
And then 5% of your donors giveabout 60% of the whole, which
(23:29):
is crazy because that's yourpool of largest potential donors
who contribute the least amount, which means intuitively and I
would caution everybody.
Here's the second thing I wouldtell you Every church or
ministry or nonprofit has atleast four unique donor
audiences your high capacity,your mid-level, your low-level
and the not yet right.
(23:51):
So there are people who areprobably in your space that like
you or like what you do, butthey haven't engaged yet.
Usually our appeals fall flatbecause we're talking to one
audience, assuming thateverybody's part of that
audience, and they are not.
Collin (24:03):
Right, the audience says you have money.
But yeah, that's about it.
David Lopez (24:06):
Right, and even then, what we know is, while 10%
of our donors might give to thelargest, the data also suggests
that they might be giving oneto 2% of their annual income to
charitable causes.
Collectively, their five isjust so big that we're like, oh,
of course this guy's generous,he gave 200 grand last year.
(24:28):
Man, he must be like oh man, ifthe guy makes 50 million like,
that's the guy gave like 10minutes worth of work to you and
to your ministry or church,because either he's not
committed to the clear,compelling vision that may be
lacking or the relationship toinvite him deeper isn't there
yet.
Heredes (24:46):
Yeah, so what I got is that 10% of the people eat 70%
of the Krispy Kreme's is thatright?
Collin (24:57):
Yeah, you're still trying to feed your kids, right?
Heredes (24:58):
now I'm still trying to get the.
Collin (24:59):
Krispy.
David Lopez (24:59):
Kreme's.
Yeah, C&H is not gonna take off, guys.
Heredes (25:04):
Latest in technology.
Dave, you've been at it for along time.
You've seen it evolve.
You used to trade cattle andnow you're crypto the days.
David Lopez (25:13):
Cattle to crypto.
Collin (25:14):
How's your cattle crypto ?
Heredes (25:15):
How's your dodge coin, your doge coin?
Collin (25:18):
Well, it's not going anywhere.
Your MooCoin, is that a thingyet?
Heredes (25:22):
That's how I transitioned into it.
Now let's talk about the future, the now on some of that.
How do organizations setthemselves up, Want to receive
that?
I've heard some tell me oh,that's shallow, I'm not gonna do
that.
I feel like you're leavingstuff on the table and not
offering opportunities for folksto contribute, whether it's
crypto or other forms ofincluding end of life giving.
David Lopez (25:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So here's usually how that chatgoes.
When was the last time youwrote a check to an organization
?
Collin (25:51):
So A what?
David Lopez (25:53):
Exactly.
When was the last time that yougave meaningfully through cash?
And usually that number startsto diminish, right?
So how do you normally givetoday?
And then it quickly turns toonline.
That's like the new paper give.
It's a digital give, but it'sonline.
There's a percentage of peoplethat are starting to migrate
towards, let's say, a text togive or those kinds of options,
(26:15):
and then you've got the cryptostuff.
Here's what I would encourageanybody who's thinking longterm,
right.
So this is like again we'replaying checkers every week.
How do I pay the bills thisweek when we should be playing
checkers and chess longterm yournewer, emerging donors who are
young.
(26:35):
It's normal to them.
It may not be normal to you,but if really the hope is to
feed hungry kids, then I don'tcare how the resources come in.
But then you have to raise thequestion do you want to feed
hungry kids today or in 40 yearstoo?
Heredes (26:51):
That's good.
David Lopez (26:52):
So you've got to create avenues for all kinds of
donors to engage with you, andto recognize that some will
engage through paper, some willengage through digital, some
will engage through online, somewill engage through a few
different ways.
However they choose to engage,though, you've got to have an
appropriate response for them,right?
So is it just that tacky likehey, thanks, no goods were
(27:14):
exchanged for your gift man?
That is transactional giving,not transformational at all.
So there's got to be more of a.
We got to curate our language,and then we've got to curate the
follow-up, whether it's a text,an email, a phone call or a
handwritten letter, or acombination of the three, which,
by the way, the handwrittenletter in the days of automation
, it's money.
When was the last time you gota handwritten letter from
(27:36):
anybody?
Could you imagine?
Cna tries to letter to DaveLopez for feeding their seven
hungry, ungrateful kids, right?
Heredes (27:43):
I'm gonna have my kids write it for them.
Seriously, dear sir, I'm nothungry today.
Thanks and cray on yeah.
David Lopez (27:49):
But could you imagine, right, if you get that
letter handwritten by someonethat says hey, I took some time
today to just say thanks, we sawthe gift that came in.
No one gives by accident, man.
I appreciate you.
And then do like a sequentialfollow-up that's integrated Back
to the crypto man, I wouldencourage everybody.
This is where your foundationor entities usually can process
(28:12):
crypto for you, because they cantreat it similar to stock, so
they'll receive it, liquidate itand then send you back.
Whatever the evaluation is ofthat particular day in which it
got liquidated, have itavailable, have it available.
You're not gonna necessarilysee like oh man, we got 50
people, but one cryptotransaction on average is about
(28:34):
five to 10K.
When it comes in the form of adonation, and it's usually
because there's evaluation I gota sell piece or I got a bonus
and so, boom, I'm giving some ofit away.
Collin (28:44):
So that's a legitimate.
That's a legitimate thing thatorganizations should, at the
very least, be looking into.
Is what you're saying cryptoand that?
David Lopez (28:54):
Man, so I would put all the giving options on the
table.
Sure, 30 years ago, peoplewould have said man, I don't
feel like giving online becauseit's not trustworthy.
And I get it because 30 yearsago, like I don't know, this is
the new.
I don't know, but it did notstop.
What occurred and what we cantell if we forecast and look
into the future, is it's notgoing away.
(29:15):
What happened with FTX and allthat is a speed bump in the
crypto convo, but it's not aroad block.
That's not going away.
Bitcoin got stronger becauseeveryone moved their stuff and
put it into Bitcoin.
Heredes (29:29):
It validates.
It actually validates?
Yeah, for sure it does.
David Lopez (29:33):
If you look at what the US government is doing,
they have the USD, their ownversion of digital currency.
That's not the dollar, it'stheir own version of crypto.
They're doubling down on it.
Quietly, go to some homework,it's not going away.
It's there, it's not going away.
I think it'll be the newiteration of other ways to give.
When checks go the way of thedinosaur, eventually one falls
(29:55):
off, but when it does, one comeson Sure.
Heredes (29:58):
It's a great spot for our sponsor, coinbase.
Thank you for that Robinhood.
Yeah VJ, okay VJ.
So okay.
Collin (30:05):
Chris Lee Cree we're trying.
Heredes (30:09):
We're all over the place.
Take a sip and get a good drink.
Yeah.
David Lopez (30:15):
Ready, ready, hold on Fiji Filter tap water From
the mountains of Hawaii, Refreshyour tomorrow.
I did have a question Colin,before we go.
Heredes (30:26):
Because I've helped with campaigns.
You know capital campaigns,with building campaigns, with
fundraiser gallows and frommillion dollar goals to, you
know, 15 million dollar.
You know achievements which aresuper successful.
The old school I was alwaystold that organizations big
business, that they're not goingto go digital, that they're
going to want to write a big,fat check and the envelope needs
to be massive so they can fitthat envelope Legit.
(30:48):
And sometimes that's proventrue.
Sometimes that hasn't been thecase Now, because have you seen
any of that?
Is that so true?
A big business, they need togive a million dollars to that.
They're going to do it in apaper check.
David Lopez (31:00):
So when you say big business, you're talking about
like a corporate sponsor.
Heredes (31:03):
Corporate sponsor.
They're going to write it, yeah.
David Lopez (31:05):
I mean they have to .
It's part of their feel goodapproach of what they do.
Collin (31:09):
It's not a lot of publicity when you hit the send.
You know on your computer.
Heredes (31:13):
No, and I'm not even talking about the PR approach,
the PR stunt of showing the bigcheck and somebody holding it up
in the photo op, literally thatthey're going to have to print
and sign and get four boardmembers to sign it, correct.
David Lopez (31:27):
And per their governance and bylaws for sure.
Heredes (31:29):
Because I've seen that and again I've seen it at play.
One time it cost theorganization I was working with,
I think, $5,000 more to getthese envelopes in hand and I
was like really we need to spendthat $5,000, and it yielded an
additional $200,000 because thatcame through those envelopes
which at one point was not goingto be, you know, I was just
curious if that's still the case.
David Lopez (31:47):
Yeah, but again, remember, this is where knowing
your audience, right.
So we talked about different.
What I did not talk about isthe corporate side of stuff.
So in the corporate game,fundraising there is totally
different than talking to humans, right, because you're now.
You're talking to humans whorun an organization or some type
of for profit entity, theirvalues, their approach, their PR
(32:07):
.
What do they get out of it?
Like it's never just a one waygive, usually with a corporate
sponsor like Fiji, right, it'susually like, hey, we have to
have product placement or we areyour go to paper company,
dunder, mifflin or whateveryou're going to do.
So there's more of a give andtake in those kinds of
relationships and you know ittakes a little bit longer to
cultivate those.
(32:28):
Historically they're notmassive unless there's a key
relationship with the executivedirector, the senior pastor or a
key trustee or board member whois either the boss of this
corporate entity or sits in ahigh position of trustees within
those groups.
Other than that they're goingto be like 2,500 bucks and it's
Christmas time and we get 50checks out.
(32:48):
Man, I've gotten those in thepast where you know company X
gave out a million dollars butin a thousand gifts.
Heredes (32:55):
Yeah, they diversified, they spread it.
David Lopez (32:57):
For sure they can say look at all of the good that
we did.
Through all of these we helpedto serve 60 million people with
2,500 bucks each.
Okay, whatever helps you sleep,I'll tell you this for all of
the time and effort that it goesinto cultivating those, if you
spent that much time with highcapacity individuals, you would
(33:19):
10X your result, your giftresponse much quicker.
That's good Much quicker.
Collin (33:25):
You talked about Gen Z in the coming generations.
You talked about, you know,becoming more modern in your
currency.
So, outside of that, what doorganizations, churches and
nonprofits need to be doing tocapture Gen Z and millennials
(33:47):
Outside of like?
Just get with the times, Iguess you could say.
How else should they focus onsecuring this large group that's
coming into adulthood, you know, as potential, future and
current donors?
David Lopez (34:01):
Yeah, I think that's a great question.
I think this is whyorganizations like yours matter.
The future is storytelling.
It's funny.
It's almost like we're goingback to the days of cave people,
where we're not preliterate,but we are in a post-literate
culture.
So the storytellers are thepeople who will shape the future
(34:22):
.
In the same way that, when wewere illiterate, we passed down
history through story, historyis going to be created through
storytelling again.
The best storytellers are goingto be the ones who will be able
to capture the minds and heartsof people.
If you look at some of thethings happening today, on who's
on what side, or whatever, it'sbecause there's a narrative
that's being spoken, and whoeverdoes the best job telling that
story goes.
(34:43):
I captured the biggest audience, true or not?
It does not matter, right?
I think that's going to be akey way.
So what is the story we'retelling?
How are we telling it and likewhat are the different avenues?
I for sure think that what youguys do in terms of like media,
multimedia, the differentavenues and all that, whether
it's digital video, online allthat is essential.
(35:05):
I honestly think, too, thekneecap to kneecap conversation
is right now being underplayed,but it has so much impact.
Man Time.
Time is the currency of the daywhere I'm going to spend an
experience with you.
Hey, we're going to gosomewhere fishing for like four
(35:26):
hours and we're going to rubshoulders to shoulders and
potentially not catch anything,but share a life and then cast
vision and then share a lifeagain and in that moment, tell
we're going to create a memoryaround a bigger story.
Boom.
I think for a lot of our youngerfolks coming into, creating a
space for them to engage and seehow their stories fit into the
big story of your ministry ornonprofit is a big, big key to
(35:49):
it as well.
If people cannot see themselvesin whatever it is you're trying
to do, they don't identify.
The faster they can seethemselves, the faster they go.
That's my story too.
I want to be a part ofsomething like that and then
inviting them to give right,inviting them to be a part of
that, and some of the thingsthat I would encourage
nonprofits and leaders.
So there's a lot of easy thingsto consider that we've learned.
(36:13):
So, whether you do Disney Plusor Netflix, there's a
subscription approach in thenonprofit world.
I'd encourage everyone to lookat easy on ramp ways so that no
one has to feel like I can'tgive a lot, so I won't do a lot
To activate and engage right.
Absolutely.
It's like hey, what would itlook like to become a CNH family
partner?
Well, what does that mean?
(36:35):
Man, for 10 bucks a month, youcan do this, this and this.
That's a Really man.
Is that transformational toeverybody?
No, but it's a starting point,right, and that's the essential
thing.
We got to remember that givingis a lifelong journey, so you
don't arrive and everybody's ata different place within that
journey.
Some people just need to start.
Well, if the goal is tithe orgive significantly on day one,
(37:00):
fat chance with any of that, getout of here, dude.
Like nobody did that with anyother spiritual discipline on
day one, nobody said I'm amaster prayer warrior on day one
.
Heredes (37:08):
Well, Colin, you claim right, Maybe he did.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David Lopez (37:11):
Of course.
So we got to treat it like adiscipline, which means there's
a first step and then there's anext step.
We got to help, would say ournonprofits and churches and
ministries Honestly craft thatlanguage of what is your
generosity pathway look like?
What is the next step forpeople to take?
You don't even have to attach adollar amount to it.
(37:31):
People are smart enough to knowthat's my next step.
So it's got to change what Igive or what I do.
So for nonprofit space, I thinkthere's a there's a pathway for
that.
I think.
In the church space, I'dencourage you guys to give
people permission to start good.
There's a lot of people wholive with guilt, who go to
church, who know they shouldgive or, and they don't, because
(37:53):
either they don't want to orthey feel like they should give
more and they can't becausethey're overwhelmed.
Just start, doesn't matter.
Listen, there's no recession inheaven.
Like the chickens and the hensand the eggs don't cost more
there.
Start because it's less aboutthe amount and it's more about
what God is doing here in termsof asking you to To trust him
wherever you may be, and then,when people do take a step,
(38:15):
recognize it.
So one of the adages that Ilearned Ministry, like people,
replicate what you celebrate.
It's good.
So when someone takes a step,especially when it comes to
giving to your ministry, yourchurch or nonprofit, recognize
it and celebrate it.
Heredes (38:29):
You're sorry, Tell the story yeah no one gives by
accident.
David Lopez (38:32):
I think I said that already.
So, man, here's one of thethings that I would encourage
Ministry leaders and nonprofitleaders.
Colin gives five bucks to CNHand I'm the ed or the pastor of
CNH.
I'm gonna call him after I'vewritten him a handwritten note.
So this is part of my sequence,right about two weeks after I
know he's gotten the note.
(38:53):
Hey man, this is Dave from CNH.
Hey, did you get the letter?
Yeah, man, cool thing, man.
I just wanted to call and saythanks and I can ask you a
question.
I promise you're not in trouble, colin.
Nobody gives money away byaccident.
Dude, what is God doing in yourspace that caused you to give
five bucks?
(39:13):
Yeah, or whatever you gave,right?
So notice, the amount getsmoved to the shelf and now it
becomes less about thetransaction, but
transformational God is doingsomething in you.
It's like no one's ever askedme.
That's great deer in theheadlights.
I don't know what he's doing.
Well, why'd you give?
Maybe he is doing something.
Holy cow, a Spark of change andcuriosity towards spiritual
(39:36):
things are happening now againdonor cultivation for young
people.
Man, everyone's emotional abouteverything.
When you can reframe thatemotion and give them a context
for how to think about it.
I think that's a big thing.
And then the last thing.
The last thing would be People.
I think especially youngerdonors or or emerging donors
from a younger generation.
(39:57):
Like transparency in you oryour involvement is essential.
Here's what I mean.
Do you give because you're anemployee there or do you give
because you want to give there?
So oftentimes, non-profitleaders and pastors.
There's the unspokenexpectation that you give
(40:18):
because you're part of themachine.
Collin (40:20):
And you're asking everyone else to do it, and so
some of that may be true, right,and that's okay.
David Lopez (40:25):
However and I do this at my church about once a
quarter I will Take off thejacket.
Hey, hey, you know, cornerstone, I Give here.
This is our offering moment.
I give here.
You might think that I givebecause I'm in the pastor here.
That's not why I give.
(40:45):
Listen, believe it or not, as apastor, my gas is still
expensive and my taxes also wentup along with my property
insurance.
I'm just like you.
People forget that right.
So now I'm human.
They can connect with me and Ican connect with them.
They can identify with me.
And Yet I still choose to givein this place, because here's
what the Lord calls me to, buthere's also how the Lord has
(41:07):
been faithful in my life.
And so I just demonstrate thatauthenticity.
Not because I'm a pastor, butbecause I'm a regular guy, I get
to give here, not I have togive here, yeah.
And then people identify withauthenticity.
In fact, they can smell it whenit's inauthentic and they're
like, yeah, I don't want to goto especially.
Gen Z, oh totally especiallyGen Z.
Collin (41:29):
They'll see it Four miles away and they'll be out of
there.
Heredes (41:32):
Yeah, it's a classic.
You know mom and dad trying topromote kids ministry on stage
and their kids you know theirown kids don't go.
They hate it, right.
So what's the problem?
Let's not talk about it, let'sfix the problem.
See why your kids don't attendit first and then.
But um day before, this wasgood stuff, gold Before we go
yeah, one more hot take, becausewe're talking about this
(41:54):
earlier go, go for nonprofitsand churches.
Their tax exemption, yeah, andwhere it's at now, some of kind
of the, the hot air that's goingaround it in the tensions.
And this is not officialfinancial advice Attorney.
Disclaimer, terms andconditions yeah, but where do
you see go?
What do you see the state of itnow?
Where is it going?
What are the dangers and howshould organizations be
preparing?
David Lopez (42:15):
Yeah, so I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not giving legal
advice, nor am I a CFM, so I'mnot giving financial advice.
Boom, here's what we know,right?
We don't have to guess that,biblically speaking, it gets
harder for the church now.
In some parts of the world it'sreally difficult now, and as as
(42:35):
bad as we think we have it inthe US, it's not like it's not.
Culturally speaking, it's notanywhere near what our brothers
and sisters are enduring, likein East Asia or in parts of
North Africa, south Africa, theMiddle East, etc.
That being said, what we cansee is like look at the past as
a predictor of the future.
Our thing is getting better forthe church institutionally, and
(42:58):
that's a.
That's an important distinction, because the gospel is growing
better.
And what we find historicallyis that in places where a
persecution breaks out, thegospel tends to break out too.
All right, but institutionally,is it getting better for the
church?
And the answer is no.
You can see where differentconversations at a national
level will have implications,and so you asked about tax
exemption and stuff.
(43:18):
My sense is at some point andwe can see this from what's
happened in Australia, what'shappened in Canada and what's
happened in Western Europe.
At some point the church eitherbecomes a state church and
people's taxes fund it and itdoes what it does, or you lose
your exemption altogether andyou figure it out.
(43:40):
Our friends in Australia are agood case study for that.
There the churches have no taxexemption status there, so you
know you have to pay for yourproperty tax on all things.
What I would probably encouragepeople to look at is 2050.
Heredes (43:58):
You've got time, but not a lot of time 27 years to be
exact, so you know, called Dave.
David Lopez (44:04):
Yeah, right, maybe even before that, depending on
how Politics move and electionsgo and stuff like that.
Again, regardless of who youvote for, what we're finding is
things are not becomingfavorable for the people of
faith, and that's not uniquejust to the Christians, right?
This is gonna have implicationson the Muslims, who are tax
exempt.
That'll have implications onthe Catholics, on the Buddhists,
(44:25):
the Unitarians, who are all taxexempt.
I think at some point, thereligious circle of people of
faith either gets absorbed intoa tax line item or it's like
suck it up.
And this is you.
Yeah, you were here to docharitable things.
Then do it regardless.
What I would start encouragingpeople to think through is if
you do have property and you dohave to end up paying like
(44:48):
property tax, I don't know howmany churches would close today
if they had to pay for propertytax plus everything they're
doing.
So re-imagine again.
This goes back to where westarted the selling of property.
How can we re double utilizeour existing space Monday
through Saturday for somethingelse?
That's gonna be for the greatergood of our communities, but
(45:08):
also generate potential incomestreams, and I know like if we
do that today, we will end uppaying taxes on that, fine, fine
, but at least you're ahead ofthe curve.
And then, if you have surplusspace or surplus land,
re-imagine it.
Bring in other counsel, otherpeople to help you Think through
what could be.
(45:29):
Listen, if the day never comes,then this, this, then don't
sweat it right.
The worst that happens you havea lot of surplus cash.
That's the worst that happens.
But if it does come, here's myfear.
I Don't know how many churchesand houses of faith will close
because they lost theirproperties, not being able to
sustain it.
Start building into some ofthose things.
(45:50):
Start thinking through likewhat it would it look like to
set an apportion Of somethingannually for that day, just in
case.
Again, I think by 2050.
I would not be shocked if thishappens in our lifetime.
It happened in Australia in ourlifetime and what I'm seeing is
the winds of change are blowingand politically it's not in the
(46:10):
favor of God's people in eitherspace, nonprofit or church.
So just my opinion.
One more time.
I got a reiterate that just anopinion.
Heredes (46:18):
We're gonna ping this episode, put a mark on it and
we're gonna put Dave's email atthe bottom.
We can email him in 2050 and.
What a prophet, or what a punk27 years.
David Lopez (46:29):
You can either thank me or throw a rock at me.
One of those two.
Heredes (46:32):
Yeah, well, dave, listen.
Thank you so much, man.
Great insight and know it'shelpful to our listeners before
we go.
Where can they find you?
How can they reach you?
What are the best places?
David Lopez (46:41):
Yeah, I think email David dot Lopez at generous
comm is the easiest place toreach me.
Yeah, I think that would be it,man.
Heredes (46:48):
Yeah, for those listening, be sure to reach out
with your needs.
We're gonna put all the linksto Dave's contacts and websites
and organizations he iscurrently serving through.
And thank you for being amentor from up close from afar,
I mean for many years now, and Ithink there's so many stories
that we'll probably have to do aspecial episode on all the dirt
that I've got on Dave.
David Lopez (47:08):
You know saying that's fine, not the other way
around.
Collin (47:11):
Not the other one seems like he'll hit back though.
Yeah, I no doubt.
I think you better be ready.
David Lopez (47:15):
If you do, I think I throw rocks to but we value
your time.
Heredes (47:18):
Listeners, thank you so much and remember don't go
alone.
If you want to go far, do notwant to go alone, let's go
together.
We're here to help you growfaster and go further.
Thank you for listening to thenon-profit Renaissance and we'll
see you next time.
Outro (47:32):
Thanks again for listening to the nonprofit
Renaissance.
We hope it ignites aRenaissance in you and helps you
go further and grow faster.
Be sure to share, rate andsubscribe and if you'd like to
recommend or be a guest on ourshow, send us an email.
At podcast at first, creativecomm.
Well, hey, what's going on?
Welcome back to the non-profitRenaissance.
We're excited to be jumpingback in with a super special
guest today.
I'm one of your co-hosts, colin.
This is H, and we are superexcited today.
So, h, why don't you tell uswho we're with today?
Heredes (00:24):
Special friend, special guest, and you're in for a
treat today and known him forover two decades, which has got
so many stories.
We may have to do an extendedversion of the podcast, but,
yeah, pg, pg, yeah, pg, please.
There's so many stories, but,pumph, because I know this
episode's going to help you,listening right now and what
you're doing, what you're tryingto accomplish, the money you're
trying to raise, the strategiesyou're trying to implement, but
(00:47):
I'm going to let him tell youwhat he's up to these days,
because he's got so many hats onthat I forget what the latest
one is, but he's done them allsuccessfully and with great,
great impact across the UnitedStates and beyond and abroad.
Actually, because he's done itaround the world, lived in Italy
, he's done mission work acrossthe world.
But, ladies and gentlemen,without further ado, let's cue
the applause for the one andonly Dave Lopez.
(01:09):
Welcome.
Collin (01:10):
Hey, I don't have my button on this one, so I'll put
it in in post, don't worry.
Thank you.
Thank you guys.
Good to go with you guys.
Heredes (01:16):
Big crowd.
David Lopez (01:17):
Big crowd.
Heredes (01:17):
Yeah, big crowd.
Currently senior generositystrategy specialist at Generus.
Yeah Right, Tell what doesGenerus do?
What do you do there?
And then we'll start.
David Lopez (01:27):
So Generus helps churches in the space of
financial development, if youwill.
Advancement, basically to helpchurches, and not just churches,
but like faith-based nonprofitsschools, university seminars,
k-12s, whatever thrivefinancially.
Almost always they're callingus to figure out hey, we need to
expand something, growsomething, build something.
(01:48):
How do we do that?
We help them navigate thosepathways.
Every single entity isdifferent because of context or
culture, so we learn a lot aboutboth and then we craft a
pathway and then we journey withyou through that pathway, man.
Heredes (02:00):
So do you show up and you just give them money.
That's what you do.
No oh okay, so just make thatclear.
David Lopez (02:05):
Because here's the thing.
Heredes (02:05):
Not that easy.
David Lopez (02:06):
We could do that and I guess we could, but I
would not be the bestconsultants for that right.
I guess we could, but reallythe point is you can get a gift,
but if you don't know how tosteward it not just now but for
the long haul then what's thepoint?
And so a lot of times,especially like in the West, the
concept of fundraising is Ineed to build something now and
(02:27):
then that's it.
That's not how you buildculture, that's how you create a
project.
No one's life is changed whenyou build a project.
I mean, yeah, we have hospital,whatever.
But if you can't sustain thatfor, like, the next iteration of
whatever the ministry ororganization is going to be,
then you didn't really grow andyour capacity to impact lives is
either hit a lid or it'sdiminishing.
Heredes (02:49):
Listen, we're going to get into some more fundraising
tips and hacks and tricks andlegal and illegal, so stay tuned
.
This is going to be one minute,hey, yo.
Collin (02:57):
That's the other, the ladders for our subscription,
our subscribers Patreon, Patreon.
We have a Patreon, we're goingto start a Patreon just for this
episode.
David Lopez (03:03):
No we don't, we don't.
Heredes (03:05):
But no, just some context.
David Lopez (03:05):
That's how you fundraise.
By the way, we're doing it.
You're welcome there it is.
We're done, guys.
Thanks for the opportunity.
Heredes (03:12):
But, dave, just some context for our listeners.
You've been an executive pastor, you've been church planter,
started churches you know, haveled at high level missionary,
international missionary, haveled nonprofits.
I remember Hope for Miami,caring for Miami, a donor,
developing writing grants.
Your experience in it has beenintense.
Give us a little insight onwhat you're doing today through
(03:34):
Generus, what you're also doingthrough some of the other
organizations and nonprofitsyou're involved in.
David Lopez (03:39):
So I live in a couple of different spaces.
One is consulting throughGenerus and that's where, again,
nonprofits, churches, helpingthem thrive to meet their
God-sized vision.
I get to partner with otherentities.
One is, in particular, floridaBaptist Financial Services, so
it's still in the area ofstewardship, but it's a very
different thing.
So it's not capital campaignsand those kinds of things.
This is more estate planningand church investments, that
(04:03):
kind of a thing.
Most of the time churches aretrying to figure out how to make
it.
Week to week, the estateplanning conversation or end of
life plan is not checkers butchess.
It's long-term strategicplanning.
So helping people think about aplan, a will, a trust, what
makes sense the data tells usthat about.
I think it's like 14% of the USpopulation has a plan for when
(04:23):
they go home.
I don't know about you, buteveryone's going to go home.
Jesus went home.
He's the one who came back, buteven he went home and if you
don't have a plan in place, I'msorry.
14%.
14% has a plan.
That means 86 do not right?
So when I'm in a room with ahandful of people, it's like,
hey, there's a hundred of us, 15might put their hands up, right
(04:45):
, but here's the hard part aboutit.
Usually the intent is I want toleave something to my kids, to
the people I love, ministries etcetera.
But if you don't have thatclearly spelled out, the
government has a plan for yourstuff and usually it's not
including those people first, ifat all.
So I do some consulting withthem in that space Always
exciting Right now serving as asenior pastor as well.
(05:07):
Cornerstone, miami churchstarted about eight years ago.
Shout out Co-vocational fromday one.
That's kind of been the designon purpose.
Collin (05:16):
I'm a dad, a husband and yeah, you're giving me anxiety,
man Right, it's because you'rea slacker, Colin.
David Lopez (05:22):
You're not.
Collin (05:24):
Listen.
Well, that's next episode.
But oh man you got a lot goingon, man.
David Lopez (05:31):
But it's one of those where you look at the last
15, 20 years and figure likehow did we get here?
When you look back, it's like,okay, god's been working and
building us to get us to thisspot.
Yeah, a lot of learning, a lotof mistakes, that's how we get
here.
Heredes (05:45):
There you go.
Well, let's jump right in there.
End of life, giving planning.
So who's end of life?
The person, the organization,both?
Collin (05:53):
Yeah, because those don't intuitively seem to go
together.
You've got capital campaignsfor like a church and then end
of life planning, and you knowso you know, how does that all
fit together?
David Lopez (06:04):
Yeah.
So I man, I would encourageeveryone to kind of take a step
back from it and just recognizethat at the top of it it's a
stewardship conversation.
Sure, all of it is right.
So we tend to to like put itinto like clean pots.
It's a will or it's capitalcampaign and before any of it,
it's a stewardship thing.
And so if it really is astewardship chat, that's long
(06:24):
term, that's really cultureshaping, culture building for me
and the generations that aregoing to come.
Honestly, they don'tnecessarily have to be so
distinct.
If you're doing a capitalcampaign, you'll find that a lot
of people may not be able tohave huge gifts today, but they
can all make a huge gift whenthey pass, and so there's a way
to connect those dots to abigger vision.
But those gifts won't comeunless you learn to have those
(06:47):
chats, which man I went toseminary at, like almost every
level, and here's what I knowthat conversation of stewardship
, generosity, estate planning,end of life stuff, like there's
no class on that, right yeah.
Collin (07:03):
So for just real quick, for those who maybe the word
stewardship is not in theireveryday vocabulary, that is,
that can be a very a church wordGive, like give a 30 second.
What do you?
When you say stewardship, whatdo you really mean?
David Lopez (07:16):
So what I'm talking about is God has entrusted
everybody, in every space oflife, with responsibilities.
Sometimes it's a relationship,sometimes it's stuff.
We're all called to managethose things and here's how we
know we're not owners, butmanagers.
When we go home to be withJesus, we leave it all behind.
None of it is ours Right.
So how do we manage or stewardour marriages, our kids?
(07:39):
But how do we manage andsteward our work and the
responsibilities entrusted to usin those places?
And then, from the resourcethat God gives to us to build or
to grow our own personal orprofessional ministries, how do
we manage and steward that?
Resources, finances,relationships, that kind of a
thing Great.
Heredes (07:56):
Great, Dave, give us a little bit of the secret sauce
here.
So we're not paying you forthis.
I don't think right.
Collin (08:02):
Colin, I'm not, that's not, you know, that's not.
I don't just make sure, okay,Just making sure that at all
yeah.
Heredes (08:09):
For CFOs listening.
Let them know.
Collin (08:10):
They would never allow me to get close to that.
Heredes (08:14):
Some tips.
So if a leader is listeningright now and that has not
crossed their mind, yeah, wewere talking, I think, in the
next 20 years are we talkingbillions or trillions of money?
David Lopez (08:23):
Yeah, in the next, actually, when the boomers pass
right In the next 15, 20 years,they're anticipating about 32 to
35 trillion passing from onegeneration to the next.
Heredes (08:34):
And where would that go ?
Yes, right, exactly.
So yeah, that's the question toanswer.
David Lopez (08:40):
Yeah, it is the question.
It says the government has aplan.
Collin (08:42):
I think I know their plan with that number.
So every now and then you'llhear people talk about the death
tax.
David Lopez (08:47):
That's what they're referring to, because you've
already paid taxes and all thisstuff and for your kids to get
it, they're going to have to paytaxes on it again, because they
view it as earned income, not agift.
But if you have a plan in place, it's a gift that either has
minimal tax implications or,depending how you structure it,
none Right.
So there's ways around that.
Heredes (09:05):
Okay.
So what do I need to tell mydad and my grandpa right now?
Yeah, here's what I wouldencourage.
David Lopez (09:10):
Every like church leader and every nonprofit
leader.
If you're part of adenomination, your denomination
probably has some kind of afoundation attached to it.
Reach out to them, find outwhat they do.
Most of the time they can comein and do like seminars,
education and those kinds ofthings and they do a lot of the
back end heavy lifting.
Usually we don't get into thatspace because we don't know what
(09:31):
to do.
It's regard it has a lot oflegal stuff.
That's what they do.
If you are a church that'snon-denominational or a
nonprofit that's not connected,there's larger entities that do
these kinds of things.
National Christian Foundationis a national entity, ncf,
philanthropy Corps, a few othersthat just kind of play cross
tribes man.
Reach out to them.
They can help you guys getthose things set up on the back
(09:52):
end.
And just an FYI, the data alsotells us that if you make an
appeal, about 40% of the peoplewill give something to the
appeal.
So I can't tell you how big itis.
But there's a colleague of minethat was working with a
hospital and their average giftwhen people pass was about
$70,000, because people havelife insurance for a million
(10:13):
dollars but they don't haveaccess to it now, but when they
go home people leave stuff.
Well, 50 gifts of 70K praiseGod, that's nice.
Heredes (10:21):
So that's an incentive for them to leave?
Is that what I'm hearing?
Collin (10:26):
No, I can't wait for them to die.
You missed it, man.
You missed it.
Yeah, I'm sorry.
Heredes (10:29):
All right, conspiracytheorycom.
That explains a lot.
Collin (10:34):
So okay, so break it down, just in case it's not
clear enough yet, break it down.
Why is that important forsomething?
Why does that go beyondsomeone's just own personal
finances and personal decisions?
If you have the heart of, Iwant to impact, I love
non-profit.
Why is it important for peopleto start thinking this way now?
David Lopez (10:54):
Yeah, so I think what I would tell.
I'll tell you what I tellpeople when I do some of these
kind of workshops.
Your biggest gift to thekingdom hasn't happened yet.
That's good, your biggest giveactually happens on the day you
go home.
You just don't know it yet.
But without a plan in place, itwill.
(11:15):
You will not.
Your plan of kingdom impactwill not be honored without
clarity.
Your kids don't know and yourgrandkids don't know what's in
here, or in here right, withouthaving something clearly laid
out.
And the other thing that Iwould challenge is like Colin,
do you have kids?
I do.
I got two kids.
Collin (11:33):
Okay, eight, you got five Like 13, so five, Okay so
far.
He's chasing the picture he'sworking out there.
David Lopez (11:41):
Yeah, men like credit, yeah, for the next one.
But one of the things that Iwould encourage you guys to
think about is kid number six orkid number three, and people
are like which kid is that?
Leave something to the churchthat's going to reach your
grandkids or your greatgrandkids.
Leave something to the kingdom,and so usually it's not going
to impact how much I'm going toleave to all of my kids, but
(12:03):
leave something, right?
Yeah, that's that's where Iwould encourage people to think.
And your nonprofit or yourchurch.
I just want you to know that ifpeople have a heart space for
you, they probably have a heartspace for things you do.
People don't give normallybecause we don't ask well.
Yeah, usually it's like areally bad ask or a really cheap
ask.
But if you can ask well throughrelationships and through good
(12:25):
language and conviction andvision, people will leave
something now, but they'll leavesomething bigger when they do
go home.
Collin (12:31):
Can we talk about that?
Ask, Because you know, I'menvisioning maybe kind of like a
pushback of like how could youask someone to do it or how
could like talk about that?
How do organizations,organizations, do that in a, in
a, I don't know, maybe notoffensive way, but in a way that
like that really calls someoneup to something.
(12:52):
You know, does that make sense?
David Lopez (12:53):
Absolutely, man.
One of the things that Iencourage the folks that I work
with to always think throughwhether it's the campaign ask or
the end of life ask or thebigger appeal somewhere in
between.
People give for two reasons.
One, they give because there'sa clear, compelling vision and
then, two, there's permissionbecause of a relationship right.
So the worst thing you can dois ask someone and not have
(13:15):
permission to ask, becausethey're going to look at you and
go.
Hmm, hmm, hmm, they do it everyday at my door and I'm like
right Because you don't havethat right, even if the vision
was awesome, it's like Don'tknow.
You get away from me.
Nonprofit leaders and ministryleaders spend countless hours
crying, consoling, ministering,serving, caring for it, building
(13:39):
like a bucket of trust becauseof relationships, because of
conversations, because ofgatherings, because of service
projects the whole nine.
And In nonprofit world and inchurch world we ask all the time
Can you come and help?
Can you come and serve?
Can you come and lead?
Can you come and follow upWhatever?
And if people didn't want to,they would say no, but they
(14:02):
choose to.
To be honest with you, we leavea lot of research on the table
because we're like man I alreadyasked for so much.
Listen, if that's thehesitation, here's what I would
caution everybody because it's anormal hesitation that I know
comes from a good place, but Ithink it's theologically upside
down.
Jesus asks for our time, heasks for our talent and we do
(14:28):
great jobs in church and inministry asking for both.
But when it comes to the talentpiece right, or the treasure
piece, that's where we're like.
Here's what I would say if hedoesn't have your time, he
doesn't have you, and if hedoesn't have your talent, he
doesn't have you and if hedoesn't have his, your treasure,
he doesn't have you.
Part of our call as ministryleaders, regardless of the space
(14:50):
, church or nonprofit, is toinvite people into the pool
Because, again, end of life.
But it's also what God does inour current lives that changes
and transforms us.
That's part of that culturepiece.
Heredes (15:02):
That's.
That's that's great insight.
And, dave, we spoke a littlebit about his state and about
property.
Dive into that a little bit.
You know we talked aboutthinking, thinking in centuries
and this is a place where youknow Catholic Church in the past
has done great and thinking incenturies Not just thinking for
the moment, temporarily, butholding on to property and
holding on to that legacy thatthey've now left behind,
(15:25):
including a city right, they'vegot a whole city, vatican, in
their name and not too far fromhere.
Not too far, yes exactly.
So tell us about that and anyinsight on that on from folks.
Donating that to a cause orcause is getting rid of those in
the moment Without long-termthinking.
David Lopez (15:44):
Yeah, I mean.
So when it comes to like realestate and property like that,
you'll be surprised what peoplehave.
You've heard people say I'mcash poor but real estate rich,
or something like that.
When they do pass, it's notuncommon to see somebody leave
something to a ministry or achurch, a house or a Field or
(16:04):
something.
All that is real.
Again, if you don't ask, theanswer is always no Sure.
So, yeah, I'd encourage youguys to ask what people give or
what people leave.
That's between them and Jesus.
But if you don't make theappeal, I'll tell you you'd be
shocked who leaves what.
And All the time people willleave all sorts of stuff where
you'll go, huh, a Mickey Manobaseball card, that's where it's
(16:25):
.
Six grand Holy cow baseballcard, praise God.
Or 100 acres in the middle ofthe state that Lenard is hoping
to jump on.
But they can't because now thevaluation of this is up and who
knows what, and it gets left toyour nonprofit or to your church
and what they do with it.
You know that's their businessin terms of selling stuff.
(16:45):
Listen, I, everyone's free todo what they're called to do.
I'll just tell you my personalopinion this is not professional
.
Heredes (16:56):
Yeah, our lawyers have told us to say that, so yeah.
David Lopez (17:00):
I listen.
Here's what I would say.
I would encourage nonprofitsand churches to reconsider, like
different uses of space.
It's not uncommon where, let'ssay, somebody has a hundred
acres oh, we don't need ahundred acres, I know, but
somebody does.
It's easy to take money today,but recognize and I would say
(17:21):
this to all nonprofit and churchleaders that once you sell it,
the likelihood of you being ableto buy it again is not high,
because equity continues to growand price valuation grows with
it and, as it does, not only didour footprint shrink, but our
ability to have a permanentfootprint Right to set a
physical legacy of whateverchurch or ministry is gonna look
(17:42):
like.
That's almost gone because wetook a quick, you know 15 mil or
5 mil or 200 grand or whateverit is when you can think about
reutilizing that space for abetter and higher use.
There's an organization I'veworked with in the past that
there was a church that had like20 acres but they only needed
five and so they actuallybrought this group in and we can
(18:04):
talk about this group offoffline after.
But they came in and they did anassessment of best and highest
use of the property and whatthey told the church was listen,
tap into your equity and put anALF on the furthest side of
your building an ALF.
Churches aren't in the businessof ALF.
He said, just put it on there,we'll bring in a charter entity
(18:24):
to manage it for you.
Now the church not only ownsthat piece of property, they own
the alf, and so the valuationof that corner has gone up.
But annually the ALF pays rentto the church Mmm.
So the church not only did notlose their footprint, but now
they've got income coming infrom a different place to do
more ministry that they couldnot do before without giving up
any of their footprint.
(18:45):
I would just say church isnonprofits.
Listen, before you sellanything, just do the hard work
of what's the best and highestuse.
I know there's money on thetable, but again it might be a
short.
It might be a short term gainand a long term loss.
Heredes (19:00):
Yeah, and surround yourself with something, someone
entrepreneurial, withexperience that's gonna look at
generating, you know, long-termrevenue and an income, not just
someone who knows what an ALF isbecause I know what it is.
People.
They may not know.
That was for you guys.
Why don't you tell them what itis?
Collin (19:18):
He was.
He's correct on that.
It's just a living facility iswhat that is or a soul.
David Lopez (19:23):
Alps in my Googling , hey Siri.
Heredes (19:33):
So let's say, Colin and I we're setting up our, our CNH
foundation.
We got about half a mil got usgoing.
We're helping childrenspecifically ours Get fed.
David Lopez (19:49):
Because, we got seven between us.
Heredes (19:51):
So it's that foundation .
We have a basketball team, yeah, and it costs a lot of money.
What up?
Give me the tips, the tricks,the hacks.
What's the latest?
You're out there seeing whatorganizations are doing, what
churches how they're raising.
Is it still Krispy Kreme donuts?
My question number one, and ifnot, give us a top three, give
us a top three.
David Lopez (20:08):
Yeah.
So I would say there's someoverlap in church world and I
think there's some distinctivesfrom church world and nonprofit
world, right.
So some overlap is wealth isnot distributed equally.
Now, you may not like thatsentiment, I just want you to
know.
Matthew 25, jesus tells us aparable about three dudes.
One guy had five talents, oneguy had two and one guy had one.
(20:31):
And, by the way, just for fullcontext, that chapter is about
the return of Jesus, likethere's a parable before it and
a parable after it.
And then he throws this parableabout stewardship in the mix.
Heredes (20:44):
I'll take, so equality.
David Lopez (20:45):
Well, no, here's what he's saying.
I'm coming back, but before Ido, what you do with your stuff
matters significantly, right?
Anyway, back to the five, thetwo and the one.
Jesus didn't say it's not fairand we gotta overthrow the
system.
Here's what he said.
I'm expecting different results, but I'm expecting equal
(21:07):
obedience.
Right To not call peoplewhether they're low income,
middle income or upper income tosome kind of response and
obedience is not on them, butit's on us as the nonprofit
ministry leaders, right, butthat also implies that we know
who they are.
So hot, take number one.
If you're trying to grow a lotof money really quick, it's not
gonna be through 100 peoplegiving 50 bucks.
(21:27):
It's probably gonna be throughabout five people giving 100
grand.
There's a lot of different waysto do that in terms of tactics,
but again, some of it boilsdown to relationships and then
permission.
Do you have a clear andcompelling vision for C&H
foundation?
Besides, my kids are hungry.
That's very clear and verycompelling to us and it might be
(21:48):
but like why should I careabout C&H?
Heredes (21:50):
right, yeah, sure, because they may date your
daughter one day.
David Lopez (21:55):
They might, but if.
C&h foundation is still there,I'm gonna say, sweetheart,
that's not the man of God foryou.
No, yeah, so you can do theKrispy Kreme, right, and it's
always easier to do that.
But I will tell you, you'regonna spend 30 hours of work
(22:15):
where, if we spent those same 30hours having critical
conversations with, let's say,our mid tier donors and top tier
donors, are potential people.
Man, your return is gonna bemore than, oh, man, we made a
couple hundred bucks on.
Krispy Kreme or spaghettidinners or whatever else we
wanna try, and I think that'sone thing that would be true for
both nonprofit and church world.
(22:35):
Here's what the data tells us10% of your donor base gives
about 70% of the whole.
Say that again 10% of yourdonor base gives about 70% of
the whole, Nationwide.
Heredes (22:45):
you still see that.
David Lopez (22:45):
Man.
We have seen it in white collar, blue collar, we have seen it
in red churches, blue churches.
We have seen it in inner city,urban, sub-urban, rural, and it
doesn't matter if it's whitechurch, black church, hispanic
church, asian church, indianchurch.
It's like everybody got thememo.
When it comes to giving, 10% ofyour donors give about 70% of
(23:06):
the whole.
Then 30% of your donors giveabout 25% of the whole.
Those are your most involvedvolunteers, usually right, your
staff, your deacons, and theneverybody in between, maybe your
board members and your mostcommitted volunteers.
That's them.
And then 5% of your donors giveabout 60% of the whole, which
(23:29):
is crazy because that's yourpool of largest potential donors
who contribute the least amount, which means intuitively and I
would caution everybody.
Here's the second thing I wouldtell you Every church or
ministry or nonprofit has atleast four unique donor
audiences your high capacity,your mid-level, your low-level
and the not yet right.
(23:51):
So there are people who areprobably in your space that like
you or like what you do, butthey haven't engaged yet.
Usually our appeals fall flatbecause we're talking to one
audience, assuming thateverybody's part of that
audience, and they are not.
Collin (24:03):
Right, the audience says you have money.
But yeah, that's about it.
David Lopez (24:06):
Right, and even then, what we know is, while 10%
of our donors might give to thelargest, the data also suggests
that they might be giving oneto 2% of their annual income to
charitable causes.
Collectively, their five isjust so big that we're like, oh,
of course this guy's generous,he gave 200 grand last year.
(24:28):
Man, he must be like oh man, ifthe guy makes 50 million like,
that's the guy gave like 10minutes worth of work to you and
to your ministry or church,because either he's not
committed to the clear,compelling vision that may be
lacking or the relationship toinvite him deeper isn't there
yet.
Heredes (24:46):
Yeah, so what I got is that 10% of the people eat 70%
of the Krispy Kreme's is thatright?
Collin (24:57):
Yeah, you're still trying to feed your kids, right?
Heredes (24:58):
now I'm still trying to get the.
Collin (24:59):
Krispy.
David Lopez (24:59):
Kreme's.
Yeah, C&H is not gonna take off, guys.
Heredes (25:04):
Latest in technology.
Dave, you've been at it for along time.
You've seen it evolve.
You used to trade cattle andnow you're crypto the days.
David Lopez (25:13):
Cattle to crypto.
Collin (25:14):
How's your cattle crypto ?
Heredes (25:15):
How's your dodge coin, your doge coin?
Collin (25:18):
Well, it's not going anywhere.
Your MooCoin, is that a thingyet?
Heredes (25:22):
That's how I transitioned into it.
Now let's talk about the future, the now on some of that.
How do organizations setthemselves up, Want to receive
that?
I've heard some tell me oh,that's shallow, I'm not gonna do
that.
I feel like you're leavingstuff on the table and not
offering opportunities for folksto contribute, whether it's
crypto or other forms ofincluding end of life giving.
David Lopez (25:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So here's usually how that chatgoes.
When was the last time youwrote a check to an organization
?
Collin (25:51):
So A what?
David Lopez (25:53):
Exactly.
When was the last time that yougave meaningfully through cash?
And usually that number startsto diminish, right?
So how do you normally givetoday?
And then it quickly turns toonline.
That's like the new paper give.
It's a digital give, but it'sonline.
There's a percentage of peoplethat are starting to migrate
towards, let's say, a text togive or those kinds of options,
(26:15):
and then you've got the cryptostuff.
Here's what I would encourageanybody who's thinking longterm,
right.
So this is like again we'replaying checkers every week.
How do I pay the bills thisweek when we should be playing
checkers and chess longterm yournewer, emerging donors who are
young.
(26:35):
It's normal to them.
It may not be normal to you,but if really the hope is to
feed hungry kids, then I don'tcare how the resources come in.
But then you have to raise thequestion do you want to feed
hungry kids today or in 40 yearstoo?
Heredes (26:51):
That's good.
David Lopez (26:52):
So you've got to create avenues for all kinds of
donors to engage with you, andto recognize that some will
engage through paper, some willengage through digital, some
will engage through online, somewill engage through a few
different ways.
However they choose to engage,though, you've got to have an
appropriate response for them,right?
So is it just that tacky likehey, thanks, no goods were
(27:14):
exchanged for your gift man?
That is transactional giving,not transformational at all.
So there's got to be more of a.
We got to curate our language,and then we've got to curate the
follow-up, whether it's a text,an email, a phone call or a
handwritten letter, or acombination of the three, which,
by the way, the handwrittenletter in the days of automation
, it's money.
When was the last time you gota handwritten letter from
(27:36):
anybody?
Could you imagine?
Cna tries to letter to DaveLopez for feeding their seven
hungry, ungrateful kids, right?
Heredes (27:43):
I'm gonna have my kids write it for them.
Seriously, dear sir, I'm nothungry today.
Thanks and cray on yeah.
David Lopez (27:49):
But could you imagine, right, if you get that
letter handwritten by someonethat says hey, I took some time
today to just say thanks, we sawthe gift that came in.
No one gives by accident, man.
I appreciate you.
And then do like a sequentialfollow-up that's integrated Back
to the crypto man, I wouldencourage everybody.
This is where your foundationor entities usually can process
(28:12):
crypto for you, because they cantreat it similar to stock, so
they'll receive it, liquidate itand then send you back.
Whatever the evaluation is ofthat particular day in which it
got liquidated, have itavailable, have it available.
You're not gonna necessarilysee like oh man, we got 50
people, but one cryptotransaction on average is about
(28:34):
five to 10K.
When it comes in the form of adonation, and it's usually
because there's evaluation I gota sell piece or I got a bonus
and so, boom, I'm giving some ofit away.
Collin (28:44):
So that's a legitimate.
That's a legitimate thing thatorganizations should, at the
very least, be looking into.
Is what you're saying cryptoand that?
David Lopez (28:54):
Man, so I would put all the giving options on the
table.
Sure, 30 years ago, peoplewould have said man, I don't
feel like giving online becauseit's not trustworthy.
And I get it because 30 yearsago, like I don't know, this is
the new.
I don't know, but it did notstop.
What occurred and what we cantell if we forecast and look
into the future, is it's notgoing away.
(29:15):
What happened with FTX and allthat is a speed bump in the
crypto convo, but it's not aroad block.
That's not going away.
Bitcoin got stronger becauseeveryone moved their stuff and
put it into Bitcoin.
Heredes (29:29):
It validates.
It actually validates?
Yeah, for sure it does.
David Lopez (29:33):
If you look at what the US government is doing,
they have the USD, their ownversion of digital currency.
That's not the dollar, it'stheir own version of crypto.
They're doubling down on it.
Quietly, go to some homework,it's not going away.
It's there, it's not going away.
I think it'll be the newiteration of other ways to give.
When checks go the way of thedinosaur, eventually one falls
(29:55):
off, but when it does, one comeson Sure.
Heredes (29:58):
It's a great spot for our sponsor, coinbase.
Thank you for that Robinhood.
Yeah VJ, okay VJ.
So okay.
Collin (30:05):
Chris Lee Cree we're trying.
Heredes (30:09):
We're all over the place.
Take a sip and get a good drink.
Yeah.
David Lopez (30:15):
Ready, ready, hold on Fiji Filter tap water From
the mountains of Hawaii, Refreshyour tomorrow.
I did have a question Colin,before we go.
Heredes (30:26):
Because I've helped with campaigns.
You know capital campaigns,with building campaigns, with
fundraiser gallows and frommillion dollar goals to, you
know, 15 million dollar.
You know achievements which aresuper successful.
The old school I was alwaystold that organizations big
business, that they're not goingto go digital, that they're
going to want to write a big,fat check and the envelope needs
to be massive so they can fitthat envelope Legit.
(30:48):
And sometimes that's proventrue.
Sometimes that hasn't been thecase Now, because have you seen
any of that?
Is that so true?
A big business, they need togive a million dollars to that.
They're going to do it in apaper check.
David Lopez (31:00):
So when you say big business, you're talking about
like a corporate sponsor.
Heredes (31:03):
Corporate sponsor.
They're going to write it, yeah.
David Lopez (31:05):
I mean they have to .
It's part of their feel goodapproach of what they do.
Collin (31:09):
It's not a lot of publicity when you hit the send.
You know on your computer.
Heredes (31:13):
No, and I'm not even talking about the PR approach,
the PR stunt of showing the bigcheck and somebody holding it up
in the photo op, literally thatthey're going to have to print
and sign and get four boardmembers to sign it, correct.
David Lopez (31:27):
And per their governance and bylaws for sure.
Heredes (31:29):
Because I've seen that and again I've seen it at play.
One time it cost theorganization I was working with,
I think, $5,000 more to getthese envelopes in hand and I
was like really we need to spendthat $5,000, and it yielded an
additional $200,000 because thatcame through those envelopes
which at one point was not goingto be, you know, I was just
curious if that's still the case.
David Lopez (31:47):
Yeah, but again, remember, this is where knowing
your audience, right.
So we talked about different.
What I did not talk about isthe corporate side of stuff.
So in the corporate game,fundraising there is totally
different than talking to humans, right, because you're now.
You're talking to humans whorun an organization or some type
of for profit entity, theirvalues, their approach, their PR
(32:07):
.
What do they get out of it?
Like it's never just a one waygive, usually with a corporate
sponsor like Fiji, right, it'susually like, hey, we have to
have product placement or we areyour go to paper company,
dunder, mifflin or whateveryou're going to do.
So there's more of a give andtake in those kinds of
relationships and you know ittakes a little bit longer to
cultivate those.
(32:28):
Historically they're notmassive unless there's a key
relationship with the executivedirector, the senior pastor or a
key trustee or board member whois either the boss of this
corporate entity or sits in ahigh position of trustees within
those groups.
Other than that they're goingto be like 2,500 bucks and it's
Christmas time and we get 50checks out.
(32:48):
Man, I've gotten those in thepast where you know company X
gave out a million dollars butin a thousand gifts.
Heredes (32:55):
Yeah, they diversified, they spread it.
David Lopez (32:57):
For sure they can say look at all of the good that
we did.
Through all of these we helpedto serve 60 million people with
2,500 bucks each.
Okay, whatever helps you sleep,I'll tell you this for all of
the time and effort that it goesinto cultivating those, if you
spent that much time with highcapacity individuals, you would
(33:19):
10X your result, your giftresponse much quicker.
That's good Much quicker.
Collin (33:25):
You talked about Gen Z in the coming generations.
You talked about, you know,becoming more modern in your
currency.
So, outside of that, what doorganizations, churches and
nonprofits need to be doing tocapture Gen Z and millennials
(33:47):
Outside of like?
Just get with the times, Iguess you could say.
How else should they focus onsecuring this large group that's
coming into adulthood, you know, as potential, future and
current donors?
David Lopez (34:01):
Yeah, I think that's a great question.
I think this is whyorganizations like yours matter.
The future is storytelling.
It's funny.
It's almost like we're goingback to the days of cave people,
where we're not preliterate,but we are in a post-literate
culture.
So the storytellers are thepeople who will shape the future
(34:22):
.
In the same way that, when wewere illiterate, we passed down
history through story, historyis going to be created through
storytelling again.
The best storytellers are goingto be the ones who will be able
to capture the minds and heartsof people.
If you look at some of thethings happening today, on who's
on what side, or whatever, it'sbecause there's a narrative
that's being spoken, and whoeverdoes the best job telling that
story goes.
(34:43):
I captured the biggest audience, true or not?
It does not matter, right?
I think that's going to be akey way.
So what is the story we'retelling?
How are we telling it and likewhat are the different avenues?
I for sure think that what youguys do in terms of like media,
multimedia, the differentavenues and all that, whether
it's digital video, online allthat is essential.
(35:05):
I honestly think, too, thekneecap to kneecap conversation
is right now being underplayed,but it has so much impact.
Man Time.
Time is the currency of the daywhere I'm going to spend an
experience with you.
Hey, we're going to gosomewhere fishing for like four
(35:26):
hours and we're going to rubshoulders to shoulders and
potentially not catch anything,but share a life and then cast
vision and then share a lifeagain and in that moment, tell
we're going to create a memoryaround a bigger story.
Boom.
I think for a lot of our youngerfolks coming into, creating a
space for them to engage and seehow their stories fit into the
big story of your ministry ornonprofit is a big, big key to
(35:49):
it as well.
If people cannot see themselvesin whatever it is you're trying
to do, they don't identify.
The faster they can seethemselves, the faster they go.
That's my story too.
I want to be a part ofsomething like that and then
inviting them to give right,inviting them to be a part of
that, and some of the thingsthat I would encourage
nonprofits and leaders.
So there's a lot of easy thingsto consider that we've learned.
(36:13):
So, whether you do Disney Plusor Netflix, there's a
subscription approach in thenonprofit world.
I'd encourage everyone to lookat easy on ramp ways so that no
one has to feel like I can'tgive a lot, so I won't do a lot
To activate and engage right.
Absolutely.
It's like hey, what would itlook like to become a CNH family
partner?
Well, what does that mean?
(36:35):
Man, for 10 bucks a month, youcan do this, this and this.
That's a Really man.
Is that transformational toeverybody?
No, but it's a starting point,right, and that's the essential
thing.
We got to remember that givingis a lifelong journey, so you
don't arrive and everybody's ata different place within that
journey.
Some people just need to start.
Well, if the goal is tithe orgive significantly on day one,
(37:00):
fat chance with any of that, getout of here, dude.
Like nobody did that with anyother spiritual discipline on
day one, nobody said I'm amaster prayer warrior on day one
.
Heredes (37:08):
Well, Colin, you claim right, Maybe he did.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
David Lopez (37:11):
Of course.
So we got to treat it like adiscipline, which means there's
a first step and then there's anext step.
We got to help, would say ournonprofits and churches and
ministries Honestly craft thatlanguage of what is your
generosity pathway look like?
What is the next step forpeople to take?
You don't even have to attach adollar amount to it.
(37:31):
People are smart enough to knowthat's my next step.
So it's got to change what Igive or what I do.
So for nonprofit space, I thinkthere's a there's a pathway for
that.
I think.
In the church space, I'dencourage you guys to give
people permission to start good.
There's a lot of people wholive with guilt, who go to
church, who know they shouldgive or, and they don't, because
(37:53):
either they don't want to orthey feel like they should give
more and they can't becausethey're overwhelmed.
Just start, doesn't matter.
Listen, there's no recession inheaven.
Like the chickens and the hensand the eggs don't cost more
there.
Start because it's less aboutthe amount and it's more about
what God is doing here in termsof asking you to To trust him
wherever you may be, and then,when people do take a step,
(38:15):
recognize it.
So one of the adages that Ilearned Ministry, like people,
replicate what you celebrate.
It's good.
So when someone takes a step,especially when it comes to
giving to your ministry, yourchurch or nonprofit, recognize
it and celebrate it.
Heredes (38:29):
You're sorry, Tell the story yeah no one gives by
accident.
David Lopez (38:32):
I think I said that already.
So, man, here's one of thethings that I would encourage
Ministry leaders and nonprofitleaders.
Colin gives five bucks to CNHand I'm the ed or the pastor of
CNH.
I'm gonna call him after I'vewritten him a handwritten note.
So this is part of my sequence,right about two weeks after I
know he's gotten the note.
(38:53):
Hey man, this is Dave from CNH.
Hey, did you get the letter?
Yeah, man, cool thing, man.
I just wanted to call and saythanks and I can ask you a
question.
I promise you're not in trouble, colin.
Nobody gives money away byaccident.
Dude, what is God doing in yourspace that caused you to give
five bucks?
(39:13):
Yeah, or whatever you gave,right?
So notice, the amount getsmoved to the shelf and now it
becomes less about thetransaction, but
transformational God is doingsomething in you.
It's like no one's ever askedme.
That's great deer in theheadlights.
I don't know what he's doing.
Well, why'd you give?
Maybe he is doing something.
Holy cow, a Spark of change andcuriosity towards spiritual
(39:36):
things are happening now againdonor cultivation for young
people.
Man, everyone's emotional abouteverything.
When you can reframe thatemotion and give them a context
for how to think about it.
I think that's a big thing.
And then the last thing.
The last thing would be People.
I think especially youngerdonors or or emerging donors
from a younger generation.
(39:57):
Like transparency in you oryour involvement is essential.
Here's what I mean.
Do you give because you're anemployee there or do you give
because you want to give there?
So oftentimes, non-profitleaders and pastors.
There's the unspokenexpectation that you give
(40:18):
because you're part of themachine.
Collin (40:20):
And you're asking everyone else to do it, and so
some of that may be true, right,and that's okay.
David Lopez (40:25):
However and I do this at my church about once a
quarter I will Take off thejacket.
Hey, hey, you know, cornerstone, I Give here.
This is our offering moment.
I give here.
You might think that I givebecause I'm in the pastor here.
That's not why I give.
(40:45):
Listen, believe it or not, as apastor, my gas is still
expensive and my taxes also wentup along with my property
insurance.
I'm just like you.
People forget that right.
So now I'm human.
They can connect with me and Ican connect with them.
They can identify with me.
And Yet I still choose to givein this place, because here's
what the Lord calls me to, buthere's also how the Lord has
(41:07):
been faithful in my life.
And so I just demonstrate thatauthenticity.
Not because I'm a pastor, butbecause I'm a regular guy, I get
to give here, not I have togive here, yeah.
And then people identify withauthenticity.
In fact, they can smell it whenit's inauthentic and they're
like, yeah, I don't want to goto especially.
Gen Z, oh totally especiallyGen Z.
Collin (41:29):
They'll see it Four miles away and they'll be out of
there.
Heredes (41:32):
Yeah, it's a classic.
You know mom and dad trying topromote kids ministry on stage
and their kids you know theirown kids don't go.
They hate it, right.
So what's the problem?
Let's not talk about it, let'sfix the problem.
See why your kids don't attendit first and then.
But um day before, this wasgood stuff, gold Before we go
yeah, one more hot take, becausewe're talking about this
(41:54):
earlier go, go for nonprofitsand churches.
Their tax exemption, yeah, andwhere it's at now, some of kind
of the, the hot air that's goingaround it in the tensions.
And this is not officialfinancial advice Attorney.
Disclaimer, terms andconditions yeah, but where do
you see go?
What do you see the state of itnow?
Where is it going?
What are the dangers and howshould organizations be
preparing?
David Lopez (42:15):
Yeah, so I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not giving legal
advice, nor am I a CFM, so I'mnot giving financial advice.
Boom, here's what we know,right?
We don't have to guess that,biblically speaking, it gets
harder for the church now.
In some parts of the world it'sreally difficult now, and as as
(42:35):
bad as we think we have it inthe US, it's not like it's not.
Culturally speaking, it's notanywhere near what our brothers
and sisters are enduring, likein East Asia or in parts of
North Africa, south Africa, theMiddle East, etc.
That being said, what we cansee is like look at the past as
a predictor of the future.
Our thing is getting better forthe church institutionally, and
(42:58):
that's a.
That's an important distinction, because the gospel is growing
better.
And what we find historicallyis that in places where a
persecution breaks out, thegospel tends to break out too.
All right, but institutionally,is it getting better for the
church?
And the answer is no.
You can see where differentconversations at a national
level will have implications,and so you asked about tax
exemption and stuff.
(43:18):
My sense is at some point andwe can see this from what's
happened in Australia, what'shappened in Canada and what's
happened in Western Europe.
At some point the church eitherbecomes a state church and
people's taxes fund it and itdoes what it does, or you lose
your exemption altogether andyou figure it out.
(43:40):
Our friends in Australia are agood case study for that.
There the churches have no taxexemption status there, so you
know you have to pay for yourproperty tax on all things.
What I would probably encouragepeople to look at is 2050.
Heredes (43:58):
You've got time, but not a lot of time 27 years to be
exact, so you know, called Dave.
David Lopez (44:04):
Yeah, right, maybe even before that, depending on
how Politics move and electionsgo and stuff like that.
Again, regardless of who youvote for, what we're finding is
things are not becomingfavorable for the people of
faith, and that's not uniquejust to the Christians, right?
This is gonna have implicationson the Muslims, who are tax
exempt.
That'll have implications onthe Catholics, on the Buddhists,
(44:25):
the Unitarians, who are all taxexempt.
I think at some point, thereligious circle of people of
faith either gets absorbed intoa tax line item or it's like
suck it up.
And this is you.
Yeah, you were here to docharitable things.
Then do it regardless.
What I would start encouragingpeople to think through is if
you do have property and you dohave to end up paying like
(44:48):
property tax, I don't know howmany churches would close today
if they had to pay for propertytax plus everything they're
doing.
So re-imagine again.
This goes back to where westarted the selling of property.
How can we re double utilizeour existing space Monday
through Saturday for somethingelse?
That's gonna be for the greatergood of our communities, but
(45:08):
also generate potential incomestreams, and I know like if we
do that today, we will end uppaying taxes on that, fine, fine
, but at least you're ahead ofthe curve.
And then, if you have surplusspace or surplus land,
re-imagine it.
Bring in other counsel, otherpeople to help you Think through
what could be.
(45:29):
Listen, if the day never comes,then this, this, then don't
sweat it right.
The worst that happens you havea lot of surplus cash.
That's the worst that happens.
But if it does come, here's myfear.
I Don't know how many churchesand houses of faith will close
because they lost theirproperties, not being able to
sustain it.
Start building into some ofthose things.
(45:50):
Start thinking through likewhat it would it look like to
set an apportion Of somethingannually for that day, just in
case.
Again, I think by 2050.
I would not be shocked if thishappens in our lifetime.
It happened in Australia in ourlifetime and what I'm seeing is
the winds of change are blowingand politically it's not in the
(46:10):
favor of God's people in eitherspace, nonprofit or church.
So just my opinion.
One more time.
I got a reiterate that just anopinion.
Heredes (46:18):
We're gonna ping this episode, put a mark on it and
we're gonna put Dave's email atthe bottom.
We can email him in 2050 and.
What a prophet, or what a punk27 years.
David Lopez (46:29):
You can either thank me or throw a rock at me.
One of those two.
Heredes (46:32):
Yeah, well, dave, listen.
Thank you so much, man.
Great insight and know it'shelpful to our listeners before
we go.
Where can they find you?
How can they reach you?
What are the best places?
David Lopez (46:41):
Yeah, I think email David dot Lopez at generous
comm is the easiest place toreach me.
Yeah, I think that would be it,man.
Heredes (46:48):
Yeah, for those listening, be sure to reach out
with your needs.
We're gonna put all the linksto Dave's contacts and websites
and organizations he iscurrently serving through.
And thank you for being amentor from up close from afar,
I mean for many years now, and Ithink there's so many stories
that we'll probably have to do aspecial episode on all the dirt
that I've got on Dave.
David Lopez (47:08):
You know saying that's fine, not the other way
around.
Collin (47:11):
Not the other one seems like he'll hit back though.
Yeah, I no doubt.
I think you better be ready.
David Lopez (47:15):
If you do, I think I throw rocks to but we value
your time.
Heredes (47:18):
Listeners, thank you so much and remember don't go
alone.
If you want to go far, do notwant to go alone, let's go
together.
We're here to help you growfaster and go further.
Thank you for listening to thenon-profit Renaissance and we'll
see you next time.
Outro (47:32):
Thanks again for listening to the nonprofit
Renaissance.
We hope it ignites aRenaissance in you and helps you
go further and grow faster.
Be sure to share, rate andsubscribe and if you'd like to
recommend or be a guest on ourshow, send us an email.
At podcast at first, creativecomm.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com