February 14, 2025 • 29 mins
Kaaren Hall is the founder and CEO of uDirect IRA Services, LLC, a leading provider of self-directed IRA accounts since 2009. With over 20 years of experience in real estate, mortgage lending, and self-directed retirement accounts, she has helped thousands take control of their retirement funds by investing in alternative assets like real estate, private lending, and precious metals. A sought-after speaker, Kaaren has shared her expertise at top industry conferences, including BiggerPockets’ BPCON22, 23 & 24.
In addition to leading uDirect IRA Services, Kaaren founded the Orange County Real Estate Investors Association (OCREIA) in 2012, fostering education and networking among investors. She is also the author of Self-Directed IRA Investing: A BiggerPockets Guide, a comprehensive resource for investors looking to build wealth through self-directed IRAs. Passionate about financial education and advocacy, she serves on the boards of The Council on Aging Southern California and the Retirement Industry Trust Association (RITA), promoting transparency in the retirement industry.
Take control of your future and discover a powerful retirement secret for real estate investors: Self- directed IRAs
Self-Directed IRA Investing: A BiggerPockets Guide with Kaaren Hall. Get it HERE
In this episode:
- Craig welcomes Kaaren Hall, CEO of uDirect IRA Services LLC
- From radio to real estate, how managing an apartment building led to a thriving career.
- Launching uDirect IRA Services – Kaaren’s path to founding a leading self-directed IRA company.
- Partnering with The Norris Group – Her long-standing collaboration with Bruce and Aaron Norris and their shared impact.
- Aaron Norris’ Influence – how Aaron played a key role in uDirect IRA Services’ success.
- How OCEREIA supports the local community.
- Self-Directed IRAs Explained – Key benefits and how they empower investors.
- Understanding regulations for smarter investing.
- How self-directed IRAs shape long-term wealth strategies.
The Norris Group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE License 01219911, Florida Mortgage Lender License 1577, and NMLS License 1623669. For more information on hard money lending, go www.thenorrisgroup.com and click the Hard Money tab.
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Narrator (00:01):
Welcome to The Norris Group real estate podcast, a
show committed to bringing youinsights from thought leaders
shaping the real estateindustry. In each episode, we'll
dive into conversations withindustry experts and local
insiders, all aimed at helpingyou thrive in an ever-changing
real estate market. continuingthe legacy that Bruce Norris
(00:24):
created, sharing valuableknowledge, and empowering you on
your real estate journey.
Whether you're a seasoned pro ora newcomer, this is your go-to
source for insider tips, markettrends and success strategies.
Here's your host, Craig Evans.
Craig Evans (00:43):
Hey everybody, we have got a long time guest and a
friend of the show, Karen Hall.
Karen is the Founder and CEO ofuDirect IRA Services LLC, a
leading provider of selfdirected IRA accounts since
2009, with over two decades ofexperience in real estate,
mortgage lending and propertymanagement, Kaaren has empowered
(01:06):
1000s of people to take controlof their retirement funds and
invest in alternative assetssuch as real estate, private
lending, precious metals andmore. Her expertise in Self
Directed retirement accounts hasmade her a sought after speaker,
and she's been a featuredpanelist and presenter at
industry leading conferences,including Bigger Pockets, BCON22
(01:28):
,'23, and '24 also the founderof OCREIA, where she fosters a
vibrant community of real estateinvestors through education and
networking since 2012. Adding toher accolades, if the list isn't
long enough, Kaaren is now theauthor of the newly published
Self-Directed IRA Investing aBigger Pockets guide, the
(01:52):
definitive source for investorslooking to unlock the power of
self directed IRAs to buildwealth. This book is published
by Bigger Pockets Publishing.
This comprehensive guidecombines actionable insights,
real world examples and Kaaren'sextensive industry knowledge to
help investors confidentlynavigate the world of self
(02:16):
directed retirement account.
Beyond her professionalachievements, Kaaren's
entrepreneurial journey hasenabled her to support
meaningful charitable giving andinspire others to take control
of their financial futures. Shealso serves on the board of
directors for the Council onAging Southern California, as
well as the board for RITA, theRetirement Industry Trust
Association, where she continuesto advocate for transparency and
(02:39):
education in the retirementindustry. All right, Kaaren, we
need a break just after that isa list of accolades on your
behalf. So, it is great to haveyou, and it's good to see you. I
haven't, but it's been fourmonths back in October since I
saw you last.
Kaaren Hall (02:58):
I think so. I think so, you guys did a great job. I
Survived Real Estate. Oh, man.
What Awesome questions. Greatpanel.
Craig Evans (03:05):
So, but before we get into uDirect, because I want
to talk about what you do anduDirect. I want to talk about
your book, but I want to givepeople, you know, one of the
things I always try to do isgive people a chance to know who
you are a little is that allright?
Kaaren Hall (03:18):
Yeah, that's great.
Craig Evans (03:19):
I've heard and know that you were a radio announcer
in Seattle. So is, first of all,is Seattle where you're
originally from?
Kaaren Hall (03:28):
No, no, I was born in California, you know, and
moved around a bit, and thenended up in Seattle. I was
promoted from a radio stationthat I was working at in Phoenix
at the time, and promoted toSeattle, and I worked, I did mid
days, and I after Jimmy Kimmel.
Jimmy Kimmel did the morningshow, and then I came on after
(03:50):
that, and so I was in Seattlefor a few years, and really
loved it. What a great town.
Craig Evans (03:58):
All right, so I gotta ask, how in did you land a
job in radio? Was that a careerpath that you thought you were
like, was this your goal or...?
Kaaren Hall (04:06):
Yeah, it was. It was, I was in college, and I got
into first journalism, printjournalism, and then it kind of
led into broadcast journalism,and then they called me 'the
voice' in college. So I was onthe radio, and I did a lot of
radio commercials, you know,locally, just at the campus
station, but then locally, andthen ended up having a 17 year
(04:28):
career as a broadcaster.
Craig Evans (04:30):
Wow, everybody that really knows me knows that I'm a
complete goofball. I hope you'llwork with me on this. I want to
put you on the spot a second canyou do a radio intro for our
podcast?
Kaaren Hall (04:44):
You want me to?
Craig Evans (04:45):
Yeah, let's do something. Throw something out
there for me.
Kaaren Hall (04:48):
Oh, god, okay.
Well, all right. Well, let'ssee. The Norris Group Radio Real
Estate Show. It's an awardwinning show, hosted by Craig
Evans and you will understandreal estate when you listen to
the program. We'll coverregulation, legislation, and
economics and investor tradesand really no nonsense
(05:10):
education, so you'll learnwhat's really happening in real
estate investing today.
Craig Evans (05:16):
That's awesome.
That's great. That's so muchfun. All right. Now, I've done
my silly stuff because I'm justas I say, I goofball, right? So,
what was your first job in thereal estate industry? How did
you get from radio to realestate?
Kaaren Hall (05:38):
Yeah, I like to say I made the logical transition
from radio to real estate.
Because, like, how do we all getinto it? A lot of us, don't
start there, right? It's, youdecide, well, I decided I wanted
to make some money. Radio wasn'thigh paying industry
broadcasting, unless, you know,unless, of course, you're the
star.
Craig Evans (05:56):
Right.
Kaaren Hall (05:58):
So, I did a lot of good things, but that was not I
didn't become a star. So, I gotinto real estate, and let's see,
how did I do this? I say, Oh,well, I started managing an
apartment building. That's how Idid it. I started managing an
apartment building. I madefriends with someone, and she
worked for a big PropertyManagement Group. She says, Hey,
manage this little building forus. S,o I managed a 10 unit
(06:21):
building, and it's like, oh, shedoes this pretty well. So then a
bigger building and a biggerbuilding. And so, that was very
educational, having to evictpeople. We had someone die in a
unit, you know, and when theywith the eviction, I went to
court and but, you know,collecting rents, taking care of
the property while I was also aradio announcer in Seattle. And
then I got a real estatelicense, and for one year, drove
(06:45):
people around in my car, and,you know, and I learned that
that job's kind for somebodyelse, you know, God bless them.
That's a different job. Not thatI didn't really, you know, take
to so. But then I got, I wasengaged, and we moved around. I
was a trailing spouse for awhile, and I got into mortgage
loan servicing, and that put mein the mortgage track, which I
(07:08):
loved. It was so interesting. Iwould say, you get a little beat
up as a loan officer.
Eventually, I was started inservicing when I was a loan
officer, but learned so muchabout the lending business, and
what you could, you know, youknow this when you look at
loans, you look at them all day,and you can tell, like, how do
people get wealthy? What aretheir 1040s look like? And how
(07:28):
do they do it? And so reallytaught me how I could build my
wealth.
Craig Evans (07:34):
Right.
Kaaren Hall (07:35):
So, it was huge education. And then, I mean,
fast forward lots of years, andin, what was it, 2007 or around
that the time that there wasthe, you know, we had that great
recession, you remember that?
Craig Evans (07:50):
I think everybody that was breathing remembers
that.
Kaaren Hall (07:53):
Yeah, you know. And so in living in Orange County,
all the radios in LA wasn'tgoing to do radio, wasn't going
to do real estate living inOrange County. So I got in, I
walked into the self directedIRA space and interviewed with a
company. They hired me, and theysaid, open our office here. So I
did that. I did really well. Infact, I opened, after two years,
(08:14):
I opened my own company, andthis is it, uDirect IRA Services
and we've just taken up. Wehave, like, over a billion
dollars.
Craig Evans (08:22):
Wow.
Kaaren Hall (08:24):
Like $1.2 billion in assets. So, yeah, so, it's
gone really, really well, youknow, go 15, 16, years later,
and, and here we are just reallyhelping a lot of people build
their retirement.
Craig Evans (08:36):
That's fantastic.
When did you become familiarwith Bruce, The Norris Group,
this whole process? When, whendid you learn about us?
Kaaren Hall (08:46):
I think it's right.
When I opened uDirect like 2009Amanda Han and I. Amanda Han, if
you don't know where she'sat,well, you know her. She's a
wonderful CPA, she and herhusband, Matt McFarland, so Matt
and Amanda and I each startedour separate companies in the
same executive suite, and Amandajust called Bruce and called
Aaron, and we started workingwith them, and it was just a
(09:08):
love match. How many events didwe do together? I couldn't even
count you know. I Survived RealEstate. We did that, the
Financial Tactics Brunchannually, and just so many
different events, and we reallybecame a trio that our three
companies of doing events
Craig Evans (09:25):
So, it's interesting, you mentioned
together.
Aaron, and you actually hadtalked to me this past year that
I Survived about Aaron, and lotof the impact that he had had on
your life and your business.
Tell our listeners some of thatthat, you know, you don't have
to get every detail, but I wouldlove for our listeners to hear,
how those are the unsung thingsthat most people don't ever know
(09:49):
about Aaron,you know.
Kaaren Hall (09:52):
Well, everybody who knows Aaron knows that he'd give
you the shirt off his back. Youknow he was never too busy, you
call him. He always had time.
And he acted like you were theonly friend that he knew, you
know, you just always felt sospecial. And I thought, oh, I
thought I was the only one.
Everyone knows it's quite aboutAaron. It's so great. But one,
(10:12):
Aaron did something especiallyamazing that was so helpful to
me, starting off this company.
And we were at the Mission Innin Riverside, and we did one of
our Financial Tactics Brunchesthere. It was so fun. We were on
the big stage there, and sohistoric. And, well, he would
always want to broadcast thoselives. So, they've got on video.
(10:32):
And Aaron in 2011 got it, youknow, chopped up into a video,
and got YouTube to accept it.
Now, YouTube wasn't broadcastingvideos that were that long. I
think it's like 40 minutes long,and it's still out there. We'd
have something like 66,000 hitson that video.
Craig Evans (10:51):
Wow.
Kaaren Hall (10:51):
But the things that put me on the map, put uDirect
on the map, and and helped us,you know, gave us a name and
gave us more of a nationalpresence. You know, we're a
national presence now. We haveaccount holders in every state,
but it was because Aaron, hetook his own time editing that
video, negotiating with YouTubewithout even telling me. I mean,
(11:12):
like, what a giver, what agiver, man. And I'm so grateful,
so eternally grateful to him.
And then when he said he wassick, well, that was quite a
blow. But we, you know, we justlove him. We always, he's
someone who will never go away.
He's always with me.
Craig Evans (11:29):
You know, legacy is important to me. I mean, it's
in, literally, in the name of mycompanies, you know, everything
we do is about trying to createlegacy. You've always been a
great supporter of The NorrisGroup, but also, and, you know,
probably, probably because ofthe friendship that you and
Aaron had, things like that,but...
But you've alwaysbeen, you know, started looking
Kaaren Hall (11:47):
Oh yeah.
back. You've always been areally big supporter of our
event, I Survived Real Estate aswell. Tell us, why is that
important to you to give back?
I'm sure you give back in a lotof the ways. But why is that one
facet important to you?
Wow. Well, firstoff, I want to support anything
The Norris Group does, and whenI could afford it, I went from a
(12:10):
like a Gold Sponsor to aPlatinum Sponsor, just out of
the gratitude for all that TheNorris Group has done for
uDirect, and it's really, youknow, Aaron. It's for Aaron's
legacy as well. And, of course,Bruce, of course, as well. And
but it's such a wonderful event.
I think there's just nothinglike it locally, you know, in
Orange County, or it's inRiverside County, I suppose. And
(12:30):
it's like a homecoming ofeveryone in the local Southern
California real estateinvestment world. And then you
can see, normally, these realestate investors. They're all
looking at properties all day,and they're in their grubby
clothes. But it's when you couldsee somebody like, I don't know,
Bill Tan in a tuxedo, you know,just so many great people. And
(12:57):
so it's a homecoming, is what itis. And I just love that event.
It's wonderful to see everybodyand support, of course,
Make-A-Wish, and all the variouscharities that The Norris Group
has supported over the years,raising, what, over a million
dollars. I mean, it's crazy.
Craig Evans (13:16):
Yeah. So listen, you know, we read your list of
accolades, the, you know andit's never ending stuff, and
that's awesome to see, right?
Because, you know, I've kind ofdecided, we've talked a lot
about, you know, in theindustry, we even talked about
it at I Survived this past yearabout being able to pivot right?
And it's clear that you havepivoted through your career at
different points to whether itwas for sheer desire, whether it
(13:39):
was necessity, whatever it was,you've pivoted and into a pocket
that now you found like this, isit, right? So, but one of the
things, and with all the stuffthat you do, I find this one
interesting, you know, you'vegot the Orange County Real
Estate Investment Association.
When did you decide that thatwas going to be the brainchild
and the really good idea.
Kaaren Hall (14:02):
Well, you know, I was approached by National REIA,
and they said, 'Hey, we want youto open at Orange County Real
Estate Investment Group.' And Isaid, 'No', you know. And then
they came back again, 'No,really, really do.' I said,
'No'. And then, so then theyinvited me to the event that
they have national, the nationalevent, and that happened to be
(14:24):
in Bellevue, Bellevue,Washington, beautiful city. Love
it. And I was there sitting inthe back, and it was toward the
end, and they said, 'Oh, andwe'd like to announce our newest
chapter leader, Karen Hall.' Ihadn't even said yes. I was like
voluntold, you know, it's like,'All right, I'll do it', you
know. And I'm so grateful that Idid. I'm super grateful to
(14:47):
National REIA and I formedOCREIA. I didn't think I'd have
time, because my kids were stillin school at the time, and my
attention was divided enough,but I brought them in on it, and
they would work the registrationtable, and so it gave them that
experience too. So I brought thekids in, and just started
(15:07):
bringing in local real estateinvestors. It's great to see
that some of the people, likeWhite Feather, who also
sponsors, I Survived RealEstate, you know, The Rushings,
and when they were first, youknow, new real estate investors,
having them speak. In fact,Buddy was deployed and Kimberly
was there at an event when theOrange County Register showed up
(15:30):
and interviewed Kimberly, andshe was a feature story about
being a military wife, and herhusband was deployed, and what
she was doing. And of course,Kimberly is so brilliant that
she just was talking all abouther real estate investing, just
experiences, and it was awonderful article. So it was
great to see those people andwhere they are now, because that
(15:52):
was 2012 so that's been a hotminute, right?
Craig Evans (15:55):
Yep, and yeah, Buddy and Kimberly have done a
great job. We do a lot with themnow, and their Financial Freedom
events that they put on severaltimes a year. Super excited for
them. But as I was looking andreading through your bio and
everything that you do right, Ithought to my wife and
everything that she does in ourfamily, and I had to sit there
(16:17):
and think, 'How in the worlddoes Kaaren balance everything
between uDirect, OCREIA ,Speaking, her own investments,
everything that she does, youknow. And I wanted to get into
that and ask that a little bittalk about that, because I want,
especially for the younginvestors, to hear, hey, listen,
here's how you can do this andstill have a balance, right? It
(16:38):
doesn't have to own you.
Kaaren Hall (16:39):
No, that's true.
That's true. And you find yourbalance. I mean, you make your
balance, and you make thingswork, and you divide time.
Because if I thought, if I wasgoing to do this all fresh, I
think I'd flip out to getorganized. But it's just, it's
been like, like, adding littlethings, one at a time until it
just flows, you know. And ofcourse, at uDirect IRA Services
(16:59):
I have staff, and they handlethe majority of working with our
customers and helping people.
And so then a couple years ago,I hired an operations manager
who handles a lot of the day today things, but it's just, you
just make time. I don't know howit all happens, but it does. I'm
(17:19):
sure your wife feels the sameway. Perhaps she does it. You
don't think about it. You justwake up and do it.
Craig Evans (17:26):
So, when does your club meet? When does OCREIA
meet? Is it live? Is it on Zoom?
What's the layout of that now.
Kaaren Hall (17:34):
Yeah, for years and years, we were live. We've
always met at the Avenue of theArts hotel in Costa Mesa,
California, until COVID. So,March of 2020, was our last
meeting, but we did have bringBruce back in January of this
year of 2025, and then, butwe're on Zoom again until we can
find another speaker of Bruce'silk. You know somebody who
(17:56):
bring, who draws a big, bigcrowd, but it's so wonderful to
meet in person, and when we didin January, it was wonderful,
because, again, it was a bit ofa reunion. People coming, even
we're driving down from LosAngeles, driving up from San
Diego to Orange County to hearBruce speak, and again, a bit of
a reunion. So, we're hybrid nowbetween zoom and between the
(18:18):
Avenue of the Arts Hotel. Sojust if you go to our website,
which is ocreia.com you'll seewhether we're live or on either
way we're live always, butwhether we're in person or on
zoom.
Craig Evans (18:30):
Right. Now, I want to get into the meat and
potatoes of who Kaaren Hall isnow, right? Let's talk about
what you do. And really, I wantto get into uDirect IRA, and I
wanna hear about the services,right? So give me, what do you
guys do?
Kaaren Hall (18:46):
Right. What do we do? You know, we help people.
You know, we're a servicecompany, and we help people. So,
there's this enormous need tohave retirement money, you know,
to save for your retirement. Imean, can you even address me?
Imagine just all of a sudden thefaucet of your income just
stops, and now you're retired,and so you're not earning money.
(19:08):
What are you living on? And toreally think about that reality
like, hey, there's noemployment. So what am I living
on? And kind of start with thatthought in your head. And so
when I thought about that formyself, I thought, well, what's,
what is that going to be? So,it's a they're like layers, you
know, one layer is maybe SocialSecurity, but still around, see,
(19:28):
you know, another layer would beretirement accounts. You know,
would be, whether they're selfdirected, or there could be your
employer account, maybe you'vegot IRAs and and they're
crucial. But it's another layer.
Another layer, maybe annuitiesor life insurance, or if you've
got a defined benefit plan,which is another kind of
retirement account, you know,maybe it's your real estate
portfolio, but you've got tostart building multiple strains
(19:50):
of income for your retirement.
And so self directed IRAs are ahuge piece of that puzzle,
because you don't just want torely on one thing. And when you
do, we've seen in our lifetimesthat we think, 'Oh, this, you
know, too big to fail, right'.
Craig Evans (20:06):
Right.
Kaaren Hall (20:06):
And then fails, right? So with the self directed
IRA, you can have some IRAs inthe market, you know, where
they're stock market based. Andthe market has always gone up.
Maybe not every stock has goneup, but the market itself has
always increased. And sothere's, you know, there's a
good case for being invested inthe market, but you want to
(20:27):
diversify. And so what ouraccount holders do, what we help
them do is to take theirretirement where it is, move it
into a self directed IRA, andthen maybe invest, well, the
really the number one assetclass of syndications. So,
someone like yourself gets a RegA, Reg, B, C, D, offering, puts
that together, raises capital tobuild buildings. You know, maybe
(20:49):
you're going to build multifamily. Maybe you're going to
buy a portfolio of singlefamily, maybe it could be a lot
of different things. You couldhave a syndication for mobile
home parks and store multipleyou know, multi units, storage
units, to all different kinds ofassets. So if you're an
accredited investor, you can usea self directed IRA, and you can
(21:10):
get into these kinds of assetsthat normally only the uber rich
used to only be able to getinto, syndication will help give
you that ability. So juststarting with the basis that
it's incredibly important tosave for retirement. Self
Directed IRAs help you do thatthrough alternative assets. And
it's very rewarding to see ouraccount holders, you know,
(21:30):
build, you know, and have enoughto so that they can retire. And
it's a huge service that weoffer.
Craig Evans (21:37):
Correct me if I'm wrong. But like different types
of self directed. Is thatcorrect? I mean, because, like,
you even just mentioned, like,okay, let's say somebody wants
to invest in a syndication,right? You're just talking about
syndications. Is that adifferent type versus somebody
that wants to invest in preciousmetals or in gems? Or are there
different scenarios and IRAsthat help in those avenues.
Kaaren Hall (22:02):
Right. Well, a self directed IRA lets you invest
across the the gamut of assets.
Now, precious gems, by the way,are not considered, you know,
allowable into a self directedIRA. It's considered a
collectible. So I'll throw thatout there. But okay, so the
kinds of IRAs, they're notcategorized by the asset class.
They're categorized as a, andreally by their tax treatment.
(22:22):
So it's a traditional is anumber one kind of IRA,
traditional IRA, where you cancontribute this year, $7,000 if
you're under 50. $8,000, ifyou're 50 plus per year, and
build or you can take your oldemployer plan, move it into a
traditional IRA. So there's atraditional, a Roth, where the
proceeds, if you follow therules, come out tax free. That's
(22:43):
really the brass ring.
Craig Evans (22:47):
Right.
Kaaren Hall (22:48):
If you're self employed, there's something
called a SEP IRA, a SimplifiedEmployee Pension. There's a
simple IRA. And so, you know, weall know that if the government
Yeah, you reallywant to dig into that, but so
Craig Evans (23:06):
Really.
calls something simple, itisn't. Savings Incentive Match
plan for employers. Okay, soit's an acronym, but the SEP
really replaced the SIM, becauseit's got so many more bills and
(23:30):
whistles, higher contributionlimits. So traditional Roth
steps simple, if you wereworking, or say, your spouse is
working and you're not, you canhave a spousal IRA, which is
(23:52):
really just like a traditionalor Roth, but you can still
it's the IRA class, but really,one of the super accounts in
contribute to it, even withoutan earned income. And then
self directed IRA world is thesolo 401 (k). So for people who
there's the inherited IRA. Okay,so someone who named you a
are self employed, have no fulltime employees in any of the
companies they own, right, theycan have this solo 401 (k),
(24:13):
beneficiary passes you inherittheir IRA. Now you can still
which has got a hugecontribution limit to $70,000 a
party could make part of thecontributions Roth. You could
invest and still self directwith that. And there are lots of
even take a plan loan from a 401(k), which you can't from an
IRA. You can actually personallyborrow money you have to pay the
rules about inherited IRAs,which you probably don't want to
account back. But you could takea personal loan from that
account of the lesser $50,000 or50% of the account value. So,
(24:36):
get into today. I takecontinuing ed, and that's a full
the solo 401 (k) is really kindof a, you know, favorite in this
self directed IRA world. So,it's really the account type.
eight hour day of nothing butthe inheritance, because they're
And then when you've got theaccount types, now, what can
those account types invest in?
And those are alternativeall, if the moon is full on a
Tuesday, then you do this. Iassets. So the IRS said that you
can invest in anything exceptlife insurance contracts and
collectibles. So it leaves itmean, lots of specifics.
(24:58):
wide open. But precious gems arecollectible, so.
Yeah, yeah, that'sinteresting on the solo 401 (k),
because even for young investorsnow, that means they could start
putting money and pouring thatinto avenues that really help
protect them.
Kaaren Hall (25:13):
Right. And get a tax break too. That's the other
thing. I mean, when you have aself directed IRA, or when
you're an investor at all, youreally need to work with a good
tax person and having a goodattorney who is looking at your
contracts, but your good taxperson needs to be working, you
need to work closely with themabout your contributions and
about your investing so that,first off, your tax person can
(25:36):
give you those tax deductions.
Craig Evans (25:38):
Through these processes. I understand the
different counts, things likethat. How does uDirect, help
investors and navigate thesechannels? You know? What do you
guys do in that process?
Kaaren Hall (25:51):
Well, I mean, we don't grow up learning about
self directed IRAs at all,right? And most people don't
understand them, so there's justa lot of misunderstanding, like,
'I have this real estateproperty?' People will say, 'Can
I put my real estate house? Ialready own my rental into my
(26:11):
IRA?' No, you can onlycontribute cash. So, you have to
build an IRA large enough to, ifyou want to own a house, you
have to have enough money in theIRA. Or you can partner with
somebody to put a house in anIRA. Or you could even take on a
non recourse loan to invest, butyou don't, your IRA does not
(26:34):
invest in assets you alreadyown. So, there are rules that
you need to follow, andprohibited transactions you need
to avoid. So, the average personis an expert at that, but we
are. So, we'll ask people, we dowe offer a 20 minute free
consultation. Tell us about yourdeal, you know, and also tell us
about your retirement account.
Where is it now? Do you have atraditional Roth so that it gets
(26:56):
into and you know? And like anew account with a very same tax
treatment. That's important. Sothere are a lot of questions and
a lot of sorting out about whatyou can and can't do. So, we
walk people through that.
Craig Evans (27:10):
Can you have debt service inside an IRA?
Kaaren Hall (27:13):
is an account, but a it's like a commercial loan.
And, well, you know this, youknow, but an IRA can take on
this debt, and when it does, theIRA is going to be paying a tax
(27:33):
on any proceeds earned becauseof leverage. So if you borrow,
say, 30%, then 30% of theproceeds you receive from that
deal are taxable, called theUDFI, Unrelated Debt Financed
Income Tax. And if you want toread about it, it's irs.gov,
Publication 590, right? Andthere are a lot of people
(27:55):
listening to you, listening tothis program, and that's one of
the rule books is the is irs.govthat website. So publication 598
talks about UDFI and also UBITtax.
Craig Evans (28:07):
Well, and those are things I want our people to hear
is because I think so manytimes, especially if you're
young investors or young youknow, professionals in any
venue, you know there are anyavenues, so to speak, that
they're looking at. Well, Idon't have enough money to put
into an IRA I can't do anything.
Yeah, I want them to startunderstanding that there's a lot
to this world and having thatprofessional in your corner, is
(28:30):
what makes it different.
Joey Romero (28:32):
Okay, everyone that's going to do it for this
week's episode of The NorrisGroup real estate podcast, be
sure to tune in next week forpart two of our interview with
Kaaren Hall, CEO of uDirect IRAServices.
Narrator (28:43):
For more information on hard money loans, trust deed
investing, and upcoming eventswith The Norris group. Check out
thenorrisgroup.com. For moreinformation on passive investing
through the DBL Capital RealEstate Investment Fund, please
visit dblapital.com.
Joey Romero (29:02):
The Norris Group originates and services loans in
California and Florida underCalifornia DRE license 01219911.
Florida mortgage lender license1577 and NMLS license 1623669.
For more information on hardmoney lending go to
thenorrisgroup.com and click thehard money tab.
Welcome to The Norris Group real estate podcast, a
show committed to bringing youinsights from thought leaders
shaping the real estateindustry. In each episode, we'll
dive into conversations withindustry experts and local
insiders, all aimed at helpingyou thrive in an ever-changing
real estate market. continuingthe legacy that Bruce Norris
(00:24):
created, sharing valuableknowledge, and empowering you on
your real estate journey.
Whether you're a seasoned pro ora newcomer, this is your go-to
source for insider tips, markettrends and success strategies.
Here's your host, Craig Evans.
Craig Evans (00:43):
Hey everybody, we have got a long time guest and a
friend of the show, Karen Hall.
Karen is the Founder and CEO ofuDirect IRA Services LLC, a
leading provider of selfdirected IRA accounts since
2009, with over two decades ofexperience in real estate,
mortgage lending and propertymanagement, Kaaren has empowered
(01:06):
1000s of people to take controlof their retirement funds and
invest in alternative assetssuch as real estate, private
lending, precious metals andmore. Her expertise in Self
Directed retirement accounts hasmade her a sought after speaker,
and she's been a featuredpanelist and presenter at
industry leading conferences,including Bigger Pockets, BCON22
(01:28):
,'23, and '24 also the founderof OCREIA, where she fosters a
vibrant community of real estateinvestors through education and
networking since 2012. Adding toher accolades, if the list isn't
long enough, Kaaren is now theauthor of the newly published
Self-Directed IRA Investing aBigger Pockets guide, the
(01:52):
definitive source for investorslooking to unlock the power of
self directed IRAs to buildwealth. This book is published
by Bigger Pockets Publishing.
This comprehensive guidecombines actionable insights,
real world examples and Kaaren'sextensive industry knowledge to
help investors confidentlynavigate the world of self
(02:16):
directed retirement account.
Beyond her professionalachievements, Kaaren's
entrepreneurial journey hasenabled her to support
meaningful charitable giving andinspire others to take control
of their financial futures. Shealso serves on the board of
directors for the Council onAging Southern California, as
well as the board for RITA, theRetirement Industry Trust
Association, where she continuesto advocate for transparency and
(02:39):
education in the retirementindustry. All right, Kaaren, we
need a break just after that isa list of accolades on your
behalf. So, it is great to haveyou, and it's good to see you. I
haven't, but it's been fourmonths back in October since I
saw you last.
Kaaren Hall (02:58):
I think so. I think so, you guys did a great job. I
Survived Real Estate. Oh, man.
What Awesome questions. Greatpanel.
Craig Evans (03:05):
So, but before we get into uDirect, because I want
to talk about what you do anduDirect. I want to talk about
your book, but I want to givepeople, you know, one of the
things I always try to do isgive people a chance to know who
you are a little is that allright?
Kaaren Hall (03:18):
Yeah, that's great.
Craig Evans (03:19):
I've heard and know that you were a radio announcer
in Seattle. So is, first of all,is Seattle where you're
originally from?
Kaaren Hall (03:28):
No, no, I was born in California, you know, and
moved around a bit, and thenended up in Seattle. I was
promoted from a radio stationthat I was working at in Phoenix
at the time, and promoted toSeattle, and I worked, I did mid
days, and I after Jimmy Kimmel.
Jimmy Kimmel did the morningshow, and then I came on after
(03:50):
that, and so I was in Seattlefor a few years, and really
loved it. What a great town.
Craig Evans (03:58):
All right, so I gotta ask, how in did you land a
job in radio? Was that a careerpath that you thought you were
like, was this your goal or...?
Kaaren Hall (04:06):
Yeah, it was. It was, I was in college, and I got
into first journalism, printjournalism, and then it kind of
led into broadcast journalism,and then they called me 'the
voice' in college. So I was onthe radio, and I did a lot of
radio commercials, you know,locally, just at the campus
station, but then locally, andthen ended up having a 17 year
(04:28):
career as a broadcaster.
Craig Evans (04:30):
Wow, everybody that really knows me knows that I'm a
complete goofball. I hope you'llwork with me on this. I want to
put you on the spot a second canyou do a radio intro for our
podcast?
Kaaren Hall (04:44):
You want me to?
Craig Evans (04:45):
Yeah, let's do something. Throw something out
there for me.
Kaaren Hall (04:48):
Oh, god, okay.
Well, all right. Well, let'ssee. The Norris Group Radio Real
Estate Show. It's an awardwinning show, hosted by Craig
Evans and you will understandreal estate when you listen to
the program. We'll coverregulation, legislation, and
economics and investor tradesand really no nonsense
(05:10):
education, so you'll learnwhat's really happening in real
estate investing today.
Craig Evans (05:16):
That's awesome.
That's great. That's so muchfun. All right. Now, I've done
my silly stuff because I'm justas I say, I goofball, right? So,
what was your first job in thereal estate industry? How did
you get from radio to realestate?
Kaaren Hall (05:38):
Yeah, I like to say I made the logical transition
from radio to real estate.
Because, like, how do we all getinto it? A lot of us, don't
start there, right? It's, youdecide, well, I decided I wanted
to make some money. Radio wasn'thigh paying industry
broadcasting, unless, you know,unless, of course, you're the
star.
Craig Evans (05:56):
Right.
Kaaren Hall (05:58):
So, I did a lot of good things, but that was not I
didn't become a star. So, I gotinto real estate, and let's see,
how did I do this? I say, Oh,well, I started managing an
apartment building. That's how Idid it. I started managing an
apartment building. I madefriends with someone, and she
worked for a big PropertyManagement Group. She says, Hey,
manage this little building forus. S,o I managed a 10 unit
(06:21):
building, and it's like, oh, shedoes this pretty well. So then a
bigger building and a biggerbuilding. And so, that was very
educational, having to evictpeople. We had someone die in a
unit, you know, and when theywith the eviction, I went to
court and but, you know,collecting rents, taking care of
the property while I was also aradio announcer in Seattle. And
then I got a real estatelicense, and for one year, drove
(06:45):
people around in my car, and,you know, and I learned that
that job's kind for somebodyelse, you know, God bless them.
That's a different job. Not thatI didn't really, you know, take
to so. But then I got, I wasengaged, and we moved around. I
was a trailing spouse for awhile, and I got into mortgage
loan servicing, and that put mein the mortgage track, which I
(07:08):
loved. It was so interesting. Iwould say, you get a little beat
up as a loan officer.
Eventually, I was started inservicing when I was a loan
officer, but learned so muchabout the lending business, and
what you could, you know, youknow this when you look at
loans, you look at them all day,and you can tell, like, how do
people get wealthy? What aretheir 1040s look like? And how
(07:28):
do they do it? And so reallytaught me how I could build my
wealth.
Craig Evans (07:34):
Right.
Kaaren Hall (07:35):
So, it was huge education. And then, I mean,
fast forward lots of years, andin, what was it, 2007 or around
that the time that there wasthe, you know, we had that great
recession, you remember that?
Craig Evans (07:50):
I think everybody that was breathing remembers
that.
Kaaren Hall (07:53):
Yeah, you know. And so in living in Orange County,
all the radios in LA wasn'tgoing to do radio, wasn't going
to do real estate living inOrange County. So I got in, I
walked into the self directedIRA space and interviewed with a
company. They hired me, and theysaid, open our office here. So I
did that. I did really well. Infact, I opened, after two years,
(08:14):
I opened my own company, andthis is it, uDirect IRA Services
and we've just taken up. Wehave, like, over a billion
dollars.
Craig Evans (08:22):
Wow.
Kaaren Hall (08:24):
Like $1.2 billion in assets. So, yeah, so, it's
gone really, really well, youknow, go 15, 16, years later,
and, and here we are just reallyhelping a lot of people build
their retirement.
Craig Evans (08:36):
That's fantastic.
When did you become familiarwith Bruce, The Norris Group,
this whole process? When, whendid you learn about us?
Kaaren Hall (08:46):
I think it's right.
When I opened uDirect like 2009Amanda Han and I. Amanda Han, if
you don't know where she'sat,well, you know her. She's a
wonderful CPA, she and herhusband, Matt McFarland, so Matt
and Amanda and I each startedour separate companies in the
same executive suite, and Amandajust called Bruce and called
Aaron, and we started workingwith them, and it was just a
(09:08):
love match. How many events didwe do together? I couldn't even
count you know. I Survived RealEstate. We did that, the
Financial Tactics Brunchannually, and just so many
different events, and we reallybecame a trio that our three
companies of doing events
Craig Evans (09:25):
So, it's interesting, you mentioned
together.
Aaron, and you actually hadtalked to me this past year that
I Survived about Aaron, and lotof the impact that he had had on
your life and your business.
Tell our listeners some of thatthat, you know, you don't have
to get every detail, but I wouldlove for our listeners to hear,
how those are the unsung thingsthat most people don't ever know
(09:49):
about Aaron,you know.
Kaaren Hall (09:52):
Well, everybody who knows Aaron knows that he'd give
you the shirt off his back. Youknow he was never too busy, you
call him. He always had time.
And he acted like you were theonly friend that he knew, you
know, you just always felt sospecial. And I thought, oh, I
thought I was the only one.
Everyone knows it's quite aboutAaron. It's so great. But one,
(10:12):
Aaron did something especiallyamazing that was so helpful to
me, starting off this company.
And we were at the Mission Innin Riverside, and we did one of
our Financial Tactics Brunchesthere. It was so fun. We were on
the big stage there, and sohistoric. And, well, he would
always want to broadcast thoselives. So, they've got on video.
(10:32):
And Aaron in 2011 got it, youknow, chopped up into a video,
and got YouTube to accept it.
Now, YouTube wasn't broadcastingvideos that were that long. I
think it's like 40 minutes long,and it's still out there. We'd
have something like 66,000 hitson that video.
Craig Evans (10:51):
Wow.
Kaaren Hall (10:51):
But the things that put me on the map, put uDirect
on the map, and and helped us,you know, gave us a name and
gave us more of a nationalpresence. You know, we're a
national presence now. We haveaccount holders in every state,
but it was because Aaron, hetook his own time editing that
video, negotiating with YouTubewithout even telling me. I mean,
(11:12):
like, what a giver, what agiver, man. And I'm so grateful,
so eternally grateful to him.
And then when he said he wassick, well, that was quite a
blow. But we, you know, we justlove him. We always, he's
someone who will never go away.
He's always with me.
Craig Evans (11:29):
You know, legacy is important to me. I mean, it's
in, literally, in the name of mycompanies, you know, everything
we do is about trying to createlegacy. You've always been a
great supporter of The NorrisGroup, but also, and, you know,
probably, probably because ofthe friendship that you and
Aaron had, things like that,but...
But you've alwaysbeen, you know, started looking
Kaaren Hall (11:47):
Oh yeah.
back. You've always been areally big supporter of our
event, I Survived Real Estate aswell. Tell us, why is that
important to you to give back?
I'm sure you give back in a lotof the ways. But why is that one
facet important to you?
Wow. Well, firstoff, I want to support anything
The Norris Group does, and whenI could afford it, I went from a
(12:10):
like a Gold Sponsor to aPlatinum Sponsor, just out of
the gratitude for all that TheNorris Group has done for
uDirect, and it's really, youknow, Aaron. It's for Aaron's
legacy as well. And, of course,Bruce, of course, as well. And
but it's such a wonderful event.
I think there's just nothinglike it locally, you know, in
Orange County, or it's inRiverside County, I suppose. And
(12:30):
it's like a homecoming ofeveryone in the local Southern
California real estateinvestment world. And then you
can see, normally, these realestate investors. They're all
looking at properties all day,and they're in their grubby
clothes. But it's when you couldsee somebody like, I don't know,
Bill Tan in a tuxedo, you know,just so many great people. And
(12:57):
so it's a homecoming, is what itis. And I just love that event.
It's wonderful to see everybodyand support, of course,
Make-A-Wish, and all the variouscharities that The Norris Group
has supported over the years,raising, what, over a million
dollars. I mean, it's crazy.
Craig Evans (13:16):
Yeah. So listen, you know, we read your list of
accolades, the, you know andit's never ending stuff, and
that's awesome to see, right?
Because, you know, I've kind ofdecided, we've talked a lot
about, you know, in theindustry, we even talked about
it at I Survived this past yearabout being able to pivot right?
And it's clear that you havepivoted through your career at
different points to whether itwas for sheer desire, whether it
(13:39):
was necessity, whatever it was,you've pivoted and into a pocket
that now you found like this, isit, right? So, but one of the
things, and with all the stuffthat you do, I find this one
interesting, you know, you'vegot the Orange County Real
Estate Investment Association.
When did you decide that thatwas going to be the brainchild
and the really good idea.
Kaaren Hall (14:02):
Well, you know, I was approached by National REIA,
and they said, 'Hey, we want youto open at Orange County Real
Estate Investment Group.' And Isaid, 'No', you know. And then
they came back again, 'No,really, really do.' I said,
'No'. And then, so then theyinvited me to the event that
they have national, the nationalevent, and that happened to be
(14:24):
in Bellevue, Bellevue,Washington, beautiful city. Love
it. And I was there sitting inthe back, and it was toward the
end, and they said, 'Oh, andwe'd like to announce our newest
chapter leader, Karen Hall.' Ihadn't even said yes. I was like
voluntold, you know, it's like,'All right, I'll do it', you
know. And I'm so grateful that Idid. I'm super grateful to
(14:47):
National REIA and I formedOCREIA. I didn't think I'd have
time, because my kids were stillin school at the time, and my
attention was divided enough,but I brought them in on it, and
they would work the registrationtable, and so it gave them that
experience too. So I brought thekids in, and just started
(15:07):
bringing in local real estateinvestors. It's great to see
that some of the people, likeWhite Feather, who also
sponsors, I Survived RealEstate, you know, The Rushings,
and when they were first, youknow, new real estate investors,
having them speak. In fact,Buddy was deployed and Kimberly
was there at an event when theOrange County Register showed up
(15:30):
and interviewed Kimberly, andshe was a feature story about
being a military wife, and herhusband was deployed, and what
she was doing. And of course,Kimberly is so brilliant that
she just was talking all abouther real estate investing, just
experiences, and it was awonderful article. So it was
great to see those people andwhere they are now, because that
(15:52):
was 2012 so that's been a hotminute, right?
Craig Evans (15:55):
Yep, and yeah, Buddy and Kimberly have done a
great job. We do a lot with themnow, and their Financial Freedom
events that they put on severaltimes a year. Super excited for
them. But as I was looking andreading through your bio and
everything that you do right, Ithought to my wife and
everything that she does in ourfamily, and I had to sit there
(16:17):
and think, 'How in the worlddoes Kaaren balance everything
between uDirect, OCREIA ,Speaking, her own investments,
everything that she does, youknow. And I wanted to get into
that and ask that a little bittalk about that, because I want,
especially for the younginvestors, to hear, hey, listen,
here's how you can do this andstill have a balance, right? It
(16:38):
doesn't have to own you.
Kaaren Hall (16:39):
No, that's true.
That's true. And you find yourbalance. I mean, you make your
balance, and you make thingswork, and you divide time.
Because if I thought, if I wasgoing to do this all fresh, I
think I'd flip out to getorganized. But it's just, it's
been like, like, adding littlethings, one at a time until it
just flows, you know. And ofcourse, at uDirect IRA Services
(16:59):
I have staff, and they handlethe majority of working with our
customers and helping people.
And so then a couple years ago,I hired an operations manager
who handles a lot of the day today things, but it's just, you
just make time. I don't know howit all happens, but it does. I'm
(17:19):
sure your wife feels the sameway. Perhaps she does it. You
don't think about it. You justwake up and do it.
Craig Evans (17:26):
So, when does your club meet? When does OCREIA
meet? Is it live? Is it on Zoom?
What's the layout of that now.
Kaaren Hall (17:34):
Yeah, for years and years, we were live. We've
always met at the Avenue of theArts hotel in Costa Mesa,
California, until COVID. So,March of 2020, was our last
meeting, but we did have bringBruce back in January of this
year of 2025, and then, butwe're on Zoom again until we can
find another speaker of Bruce'silk. You know somebody who
(17:56):
bring, who draws a big, bigcrowd, but it's so wonderful to
meet in person, and when we didin January, it was wonderful,
because, again, it was a bit ofa reunion. People coming, even
we're driving down from LosAngeles, driving up from San
Diego to Orange County to hearBruce speak, and again, a bit of
a reunion. So, we're hybrid nowbetween zoom and between the
(18:18):
Avenue of the Arts Hotel. Sojust if you go to our website,
which is ocreia.com you'll seewhether we're live or on either
way we're live always, butwhether we're in person or on
zoom.
Craig Evans (18:30):
Right. Now, I want to get into the meat and
potatoes of who Kaaren Hall isnow, right? Let's talk about
what you do. And really, I wantto get into uDirect IRA, and I
wanna hear about the services,right? So give me, what do you
guys do?
Kaaren Hall (18:46):
Right. What do we do? You know, we help people.
You know, we're a servicecompany, and we help people. So,
there's this enormous need tohave retirement money, you know,
to save for your retirement. Imean, can you even address me?
Imagine just all of a sudden thefaucet of your income just
stops, and now you're retired,and so you're not earning money.
(19:08):
What are you living on? And toreally think about that reality
like, hey, there's noemployment. So what am I living
on? And kind of start with thatthought in your head. And so
when I thought about that formyself, I thought, well, what's,
what is that going to be? So,it's a they're like layers, you
know, one layer is maybe SocialSecurity, but still around, see,
(19:28):
you know, another layer would beretirement accounts. You know,
would be, whether they're selfdirected, or there could be your
employer account, maybe you'vegot IRAs and and they're
crucial. But it's another layer.
Another layer, maybe annuitiesor life insurance, or if you've
got a defined benefit plan,which is another kind of
retirement account, you know,maybe it's your real estate
portfolio, but you've got tostart building multiple strains
(19:50):
of income for your retirement.
And so self directed IRAs are ahuge piece of that puzzle,
because you don't just want torely on one thing. And when you
do, we've seen in our lifetimesthat we think, 'Oh, this, you
know, too big to fail, right'.
Craig Evans (20:06):
Right.
Kaaren Hall (20:06):
And then fails, right? So with the self directed
IRA, you can have some IRAs inthe market, you know, where
they're stock market based. Andthe market has always gone up.
Maybe not every stock has goneup, but the market itself has
always increased. And sothere's, you know, there's a
good case for being invested inthe market, but you want to
(20:27):
diversify. And so what ouraccount holders do, what we help
them do is to take theirretirement where it is, move it
into a self directed IRA, andthen maybe invest, well, the
really the number one assetclass of syndications. So,
someone like yourself gets a RegA, Reg, B, C, D, offering, puts
that together, raises capital tobuild buildings. You know, maybe
(20:49):
you're going to build multifamily. Maybe you're going to
buy a portfolio of singlefamily, maybe it could be a lot
of different things. You couldhave a syndication for mobile
home parks and store multipleyou know, multi units, storage
units, to all different kinds ofassets. So if you're an
accredited investor, you can usea self directed IRA, and you can
(21:10):
get into these kinds of assetsthat normally only the uber rich
used to only be able to getinto, syndication will help give
you that ability. So juststarting with the basis that
it's incredibly important tosave for retirement. Self
Directed IRAs help you do thatthrough alternative assets. And
it's very rewarding to see ouraccount holders, you know,
(21:30):
build, you know, and have enoughto so that they can retire. And
it's a huge service that weoffer.
Craig Evans (21:37):
Correct me if I'm wrong. But like different types
of self directed. Is thatcorrect? I mean, because, like,
you even just mentioned, like,okay, let's say somebody wants
to invest in a syndication,right? You're just talking about
syndications. Is that adifferent type versus somebody
that wants to invest in preciousmetals or in gems? Or are there
different scenarios and IRAsthat help in those avenues.
Kaaren Hall (22:02):
Right. Well, a self directed IRA lets you invest
across the the gamut of assets.
Now, precious gems, by the way,are not considered, you know,
allowable into a self directedIRA. It's considered a
collectible. So I'll throw thatout there. But okay, so the
kinds of IRAs, they're notcategorized by the asset class.
They're categorized as a, andreally by their tax treatment.
(22:22):
So it's a traditional is anumber one kind of IRA,
traditional IRA, where you cancontribute this year, $7,000 if
you're under 50. $8,000, ifyou're 50 plus per year, and
build or you can take your oldemployer plan, move it into a
traditional IRA. So there's atraditional, a Roth, where the
proceeds, if you follow therules, come out tax free. That's
(22:43):
really the brass ring.
Craig Evans (22:47):
Right.
Kaaren Hall (22:48):
If you're self employed, there's something
called a SEP IRA, a SimplifiedEmployee Pension. There's a
simple IRA. And so, you know, weall know that if the government
Yeah, you reallywant to dig into that, but so
Craig Evans (23:06):
Really.
calls something simple, itisn't. Savings Incentive Match
plan for employers. Okay, soit's an acronym, but the SEP
really replaced the SIM, becauseit's got so many more bills and
(23:30):
whistles, higher contributionlimits. So traditional Roth
steps simple, if you wereworking, or say, your spouse is
working and you're not, you canhave a spousal IRA, which is
(23:52):
really just like a traditionalor Roth, but you can still
it's the IRA class, but really,one of the super accounts in
contribute to it, even withoutan earned income. And then
self directed IRA world is thesolo 401 (k). So for people who
there's the inherited IRA. Okay,so someone who named you a
are self employed, have no fulltime employees in any of the
companies they own, right, theycan have this solo 401 (k),
(24:13):
beneficiary passes you inherittheir IRA. Now you can still
which has got a hugecontribution limit to $70,000 a
party could make part of thecontributions Roth. You could
invest and still self directwith that. And there are lots of
even take a plan loan from a 401(k), which you can't from an
IRA. You can actually personallyborrow money you have to pay the
rules about inherited IRAs,which you probably don't want to
account back. But you could takea personal loan from that
account of the lesser $50,000 or50% of the account value. So,
(24:36):
get into today. I takecontinuing ed, and that's a full
the solo 401 (k) is really kindof a, you know, favorite in this
self directed IRA world. So,it's really the account type.
eight hour day of nothing butthe inheritance, because they're
And then when you've got theaccount types, now, what can
those account types invest in?
And those are alternativeall, if the moon is full on a
Tuesday, then you do this. Iassets. So the IRS said that you
can invest in anything exceptlife insurance contracts and
collectibles. So it leaves itmean, lots of specifics.
(24:58):
wide open. But precious gems arecollectible, so.
Yeah, yeah, that'sinteresting on the solo 401 (k),
because even for young investorsnow, that means they could start
putting money and pouring thatinto avenues that really help
protect them.
Kaaren Hall (25:13):
Right. And get a tax break too. That's the other
thing. I mean, when you have aself directed IRA, or when
you're an investor at all, youreally need to work with a good
tax person and having a goodattorney who is looking at your
contracts, but your good taxperson needs to be working, you
need to work closely with themabout your contributions and
about your investing so that,first off, your tax person can
(25:36):
give you those tax deductions.
Craig Evans (25:38):
Through these processes. I understand the
different counts, things likethat. How does uDirect, help
investors and navigate thesechannels? You know? What do you
guys do in that process?
Kaaren Hall (25:51):
Well, I mean, we don't grow up learning about
self directed IRAs at all,right? And most people don't
understand them, so there's justa lot of misunderstanding, like,
'I have this real estateproperty?' People will say, 'Can
I put my real estate house? Ialready own my rental into my
(26:11):
IRA?' No, you can onlycontribute cash. So, you have to
build an IRA large enough to, ifyou want to own a house, you
have to have enough money in theIRA. Or you can partner with
somebody to put a house in anIRA. Or you could even take on a
non recourse loan to invest, butyou don't, your IRA does not
(26:34):
invest in assets you alreadyown. So, there are rules that
you need to follow, andprohibited transactions you need
to avoid. So, the average personis an expert at that, but we
are. So, we'll ask people, we dowe offer a 20 minute free
consultation. Tell us about yourdeal, you know, and also tell us
about your retirement account.
Where is it now? Do you have atraditional Roth so that it gets
(26:56):
into and you know? And like anew account with a very same tax
treatment. That's important. Sothere are a lot of questions and
a lot of sorting out about whatyou can and can't do. So, we
walk people through that.
Craig Evans (27:10):
Can you have debt service inside an IRA?
Kaaren Hall (27:13):
is an account, but a it's like a commercial loan.
And, well, you know this, youknow, but an IRA can take on
this debt, and when it does, theIRA is going to be paying a tax
(27:33):
on any proceeds earned becauseof leverage. So if you borrow,
say, 30%, then 30% of theproceeds you receive from that
deal are taxable, called theUDFI, Unrelated Debt Financed
Income Tax. And if you want toread about it, it's irs.gov,
Publication 590, right? Andthere are a lot of people
(27:55):
listening to you, listening tothis program, and that's one of
the rule books is the is irs.govthat website. So publication 598
talks about UDFI and also UBITtax.
Craig Evans (28:07):
Well, and those are things I want our people to hear
is because I think so manytimes, especially if you're
young investors or young youknow, professionals in any
venue, you know there are anyavenues, so to speak, that
they're looking at. Well, Idon't have enough money to put
into an IRA I can't do anything.
Yeah, I want them to startunderstanding that there's a lot
to this world and having thatprofessional in your corner, is
(28:30):
what makes it different.
Joey Romero (28:32):
Okay, everyone that's going to do it for this
week's episode of The NorrisGroup real estate podcast, be
sure to tune in next week forpart two of our interview with
Kaaren Hall, CEO of uDirect IRAServices.
Narrator (28:43):
For more information on hard money loans, trust deed
investing, and upcoming eventswith The Norris group. Check out
thenorrisgroup.com. For moreinformation on passive investing
through the DBL Capital RealEstate Investment Fund, please
visit dblapital.com.
Joey Romero (29:02):
The Norris Group originates and services loans in
California and Florida underCalifornia DRE license 01219911.
Florida mortgage lender license1577 and NMLS license 1623669.
For more information on hardmoney lending go to
thenorrisgroup.com and click thehard money tab.
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