December 5, 2025 • 41 mins
This special episode of The North Star turns the spotlight on Executive Director JeffriAnne Wilder, Ph.D., in a candid conversation with colleague Letisha Bereola about her journey, her identity, and leading Oberlin’s Center for DEI Innovation and Leadership amid a nationwide rollback of DEI. JeffriAnne reflects on leading in “quicksand” while programs around her were cut, the four pillars guiding the center’s vision—communication and thought leadership, research, education and training, and community—and how Oberlin’s long legacy of access and opportunity shapes her commitment to equity, leadership, and innovation. She also shares candid insights on redefining success, choosing rest over relentless achievement, navigating life as a Black woman leader and mother, and why amplifying all forms of human difference, not pitting groups against each other, is the heart of DEI in 2025 and beyond.
🔗 Find out more about Dr. JeffriAnne Wilder.
🔗 Follow the Center for DEI Innovation and Leadership on LinkedIn.
🌎Visit Oberlin College's website.
Podcast Produced by: Paradigm Media Group
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Hey everyone, welcome to the North Star, a
(00:02):
space for conversations onleadership, equity, and justice.
This season we are exploringdisruption and those pivotal
moments when scholars, leaders,and communities challenge
systems and reimagine thefuture.
This is a special episodebecause this is not a familiar
(00:24):
voice to you right now.
It's because we are flipping thescript.
I'm Letitia Bariola, seniorstrategist for communications
and impact for Oberlin Centerfor DEI Innovation and
Leadership.
I'm hosting the show today, andmy guest is the executive
director of the center, Dr.
(00:45):
Jeffrey Ann Wilder.
Hi, Dr.
Wilder.
How are you?
I am well.
I am well.
I want to dive into kind of likelevel set us where you are right
now with your work at thecenter.
So tell us what your day-to-dayis like.
(01:07):
What are some of the projectsyou're working on?
Just drop us right into theseason you're in right now.
SPEAKER_00 (01:13):
Well, before we get into our projects and the work
that we're doing, I first haveto just say that I am sort of
walking into this season with anextreme amount of gratitude and
humility for gosh, just having ajob and being afforded the
(01:33):
incredible luxury and privilegeto still be able to do this work
today.
So it's November of 2025, andwhat a 2025 it has been already.
I say this all the time becauseI do not take being able to do
this work lightly at all.
(01:54):
A year ago, so if we think aboutwhere we were last November, our
lives, a lot of people's lives,looked very different.
There are some of my goodfriends and colleagues who had
jobs working in positions thatwere fully funded, fully
(02:18):
staffed, fully resourced, who nolonger have those jobs, who no
longer have those resources, whono longer have those staffs.
And I feel very fortunate to bein the very small number of
people who are still able to dothis work and to be able to do
this work under the leadershipof folks who recognize how
(02:41):
valuable, how important doingthis type of work is, not for
the sake of doing the work, butfor what the work means to our
broader humanity.
So O'Reilly and Center for DIInnovation and Leadership has
been around since June of 2024.
And we are just getting started.
(03:02):
We have been up to, as folkswould say, some really good
trouble creating the nextgeneration of change makers.
And really, right now, the workhas been about being in good
conversation and really tryingto convene and amplify really
(03:26):
what's left.
Right.
So I I I before we, you know,dig a little bit deeper, I just
had to say that I'm thankful,I'm appreciative, and I
recognize how honored I am to beable to do this work today.
SPEAKER_01 (03:47):
What a way to answer that question.
I love how reflective you areright now because for someone
who's been working alongside yousince the beginning, even though
we still have our jobs, right?
We're working in the DEI space,it doesn't mean it has been
easy.
And you've had a different setof issues remaining still in the
(04:11):
field during this time.
And we talked a little bit aboutthat in our first interview
together.
But now that we're kind of thelandscape is totally different,
and who knows where it'sactually going to land.
But I will say that it does feellike we've been able to take a
little bit of a breath and getback to work in a more visible
(04:32):
way.
The work never ended, right?
But now we're a little bit morevisible.
I'm curious, what did that timedo for you?
Getting the job very soon afterthat, DEI began to be
dismantled.
I mean, at the level atacademia, right?
Like right where you sit.
(04:54):
And you still had to do thework.
Keep your head down, do thework, keep your head down, do
the work.
Now that we're here and we arenow public with the podcast,
we're doing a little activity onLinkedIn.
It's interesting to hear youhave so much gratitude for that,
for that time, and that you'restill here, right?
So talk a little bit more abouthow it was to be propping up a
(05:19):
DEI center at a time where DEIin business, academia, you name
it, was being attacked.
And still is to an extent.
SPEAKER_00 (05:30):
It definitely felt a little odd and to be honest,
very lonely.
Because when you think aboutdoing this work, especially, and
you know, so I'm a sociologistby training.
I've had my PhD in sociology forI don't know, 18 years.
And I've been working in thehigher ed space for, I don't
(05:54):
know, gosh.
I like to think of myself as ayoung kid, but I'm not.
I've been working in the highered space for over 20 years.
I've been working, educatingcollege age, and I shouldn't
even say college age, working atthe college level, working at
the collegiate level for acouple of decades now.
(06:16):
And so when you think aboutdoing that kind of work, you're
always doing it in some sort ofcommunity, right?
So doing sociology and doing thesociology that I do, you're
always doing it in community.
You're doing it with others.
It's public work, it's communitywork, even teaching.
And so this felt very differentbecause to your left, to your
(06:41):
right, to the center, people,programs, initiatives literally
being dismantled overnight.
And then the folks who are leftaren't sure how long their work
is going to be around.
And so it's definitely quitelonely.
And so it's like buildingsomething in quicksand, first of
(07:06):
all, and building something inquicksand in solitude in the
dark, right?
So if you're thinking aboutdoing that, but then also in
doing all of that, you'rebuilding something that you do
at the same time have the buy-inof your leader, the leadership
(07:29):
at Oberlin.
And so the community at Oberlin,the history of Oberlin, so
you're you've got the thatconnection there.
But at the same time, it's stillvery lonely in a way.
And so doing that, you stillhave to find a way to gather
(07:51):
your community.
And so for me, continuing to dothe work, and after a while, I
realized that my community, Ihad to sort of build and sort of
gather, maybe not necessarily mypeers in my regional community,
but I had to find peers in otherplaces.
(08:13):
And oddly, or maybe notnecessarily oddly, but luckily
enough, I found community inplaces that I didn't necessarily
think I was going to.
For me at Oberlin, I foundcommunity in the programs that I
was building, right?
So for instance, we launchedthis Changemakers Fellowship for
(08:36):
undergraduate students.
And so as I was building thisprogram for students, I was also
building community for myself.
As we were building communitypartnerships, I was building
community for myself.
We're building this podcast,which initially started private
and now is public.
We're building community.
(08:57):
And so it's been really nice tobe able to create something that
we were again initially buildingquietly in the dark, in
quicksand, sort of in a lot ofways in solitude, where we're
now being able to see a littlebit of sunshine, right?
(09:18):
We've got some community, andit's really gaining momentum,
and it's quite lovely.
And and like I said before,we're only just beginning.
And what we have found is thatwe have emerged for other people
as this North Star, which isonly fitting because this is
(09:39):
Oberlin, right?
The first institution to createaccess and opportunity for
underrepresented populations.
And so in Oberlin's thirdgeneration, so Oberlin was
founded in 1833.
This is only fitting that inthis moment now that this is how
Oberlin emerges, that we areusing this center as the North
(10:04):
Star as we emerge in this veryuncertain time in our lifetimes.
We've never been in a space likethis in our lifetimes.
We're using this opportunity toemerge and find a path forward,
build community, buildconnection, and create
conversation and some sense ofstability for everyone as much
(10:27):
as we can.
SPEAKER_01 (10:29):
When you think about the work that you're doing, I
know that we we had to almostlike level set and be like,
first, let's just talk aboutwhere we came from.
Like we're doing work now, butlet's like have a moment to just
honor what the last year and ahalf has been like.
And so now let's kind of go backto that first question around
(10:52):
like, what is the day in life ofthe executive director for
Oberlin Center for DEI,innovation and leadership?
What is your days like thesedays?
SPEAKER_00 (11:04):
It's creating a lot of, you know, I would say like
it's adding a lot of meat to thebones, right?
So we spent a lot of timeinitially thinking about like,
you know, what the structurewould look like for the center.
Like, what do we want to do?
What kinds of things areimportant to us?
(11:25):
So, President Carmen Twile-AnnBar, who is the president of
Oberlin College, she's in herninth year at Oberlin, and she
was very intent on creating thiscenter, and she had a vision for
it.
And she shared her vision forthe center with me.
And so when I first started, Ithought about what she shared as
(11:45):
her vision and what thecommunity members shared as
their vision for Oberlin andalso thinking about the history
of Oberlin and the legacy ofthat.
And so I spent a large part ofmy first year at Oberlin
thinking about sort oftranslating that vision into a
broader kind of sketch for whatthat work could be, right?
(12:08):
And so we've got sort of fourpillars of the work that we do
in the center (12:12):
communication and thought leadership, where we
will convene conversations,right?
So this is what we're doingright now through the podcast.
We have a research pillar wherewe will think about originating
research, but also sharing outthe research of others.
We have an education andtraining pillar where we would
(12:35):
like to think about curricularinnovation and finally
community, because as Imentioned before, community is
really important.
So that first year was reallyabout creating that
infrastructure, building up thatinfrastructure.
And now it's about flushing outthe work in those four pillars.
So I will say that the days arevery busy, no two days are the
(12:59):
same, and it really is all aboutcontinuing to flush those things
out.
I'm teaching a class thissemester.
So that fellowship program thatI shared earlier, we launched
that this year, and I'm teachinga class connected to that
fellowship program.
So I'm teaching a leadership andsocial change class.
(13:19):
So in addition to sort of myadministrative hat, um I'm
grading midterms, which is a tonof fun.
And so there's all kinds ofthings that is a part of the
work.
There's also you got to thinkabout how you're gonna be
innovative, how you're gonnastretch your resources.
There is a fundraising piece atsome point that we need to do.
(13:42):
So no two days are the same.
And I consider myself both ageneralist, but also a
specialist.
You've got to do all kinds ofthings leading the center.
There's a human resource elementto it as well, because I have uh
staff and things that I have todo connected to that.
So uh no two da two days are thesame.
(14:03):
It's a ton of work, but man, itactually is so fulfilling and
it's a it's so enjoyable.
And I have to say, and I'veshared this before, I'm an
educator at heart.
I mean, I think that is probablyone of my first loves is
students.
And so having the opportunity toteach and interact with students
(14:29):
is literally one of the bestthings.
And so I have really enjoyedbeing able to do that again.
So that's been a ton of fun aswell.
SPEAKER_01 (14:38):
Well, what you didn't mention, and I want to
add this layer to yourday-to-day, is that you are a
mom of two girls.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (14:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:48):
Yes.
And so you have this big jobwith a lot of responsibility,
juggling so you all the pillars,staff, your teaching.
There's a lot happening there.
But you also go home and you area mom.
There's also a commute elementto your work, right?
Back and forth between campusand working remote.
(15:11):
And then there's this wholehuman that is you that needs to
be fed, slept, have some fun.
So the question here is aroundyou represent so many of us,
right?
The hustle of the big job andbeing a mom and trying to take
care of ourself.
So I'm curious.
Annie just recently had abirthday where I know you did
(15:32):
some reflection.
So I'm curious, what doesself-care?
How are you taking care ofyourself in the midst of all of
this?
What does that look like rightnow?
SPEAKER_00 (15:43):
Believe it or not, I pledged to do less and not more
uh this year.
So I am not gonna share whatbirthday it was.
And they say that black don'tcrack, but it kind of does,
right?
And I let's just say this I amstaring at milestone birthday in
(16:06):
the face, right?
So I didn't have a milestonebirthday, but I got one coming
rather soon.
But I am gonna enjoy the thebirthday that I just celebrated
about a week or so ago.
And what I have learned um overthe years is that, or and really
just recently, is that Iaccomplished a lot over the
(16:28):
course of my adulthood.
And one of the things that I wasreally that meant a lot to me
was accomplishing more things,right?
Set a goal, achieve the goal.
And when you're almost finishedwith that goal, you set the next
goal.
And that next goal has to be ahigher goal than the previous
(16:51):
one.
And then you set the next oneand the next one.
I finished my PhD at 31 yearsold.
And when I was finishing my PhDat 31 years old, I thought,
gosh, I'm probably three to fouryears later than I would like to
have been, which is a silly,silly thought at the time,
right?
Like, that's silly.
Finished my PhD at 31 years old.
(17:13):
That's super young, right?
Like, what are you doing?
Now I did have a lot of fun, soI do know how to have fun.
And so that's always somethingthat has been a sort of a credo
of mine.
You know, you work hard, youplay hard.
But what I have sort of settledinto at this phase of my life is
that I don't have to rush and Idon't have to accomplish all the
(17:37):
things, right?
Less really is more.
It really, really is.
And there is there are notimetables for me anymore.
Like, I am not like I honestly,like, what's what's the next
thing?
I don't know.
Whatever the good Lord says.
Seriously, I mean, somethingthat is an accomplishment for me
(18:01):
at this point in my life is likegetting my rest, drinking my
water, minding my business.
And that's so cliche, but it isso true.
I am not chasing anything else.
My dream is to make sure that mytwo girls, once they grow up,
(18:21):
they say that they had a goodchildhood.
Their childhood was stable andthey have great memories, and
that mommy was present.
That's literally like what I'maspiring to, right?
Not chasing the next thing or sothey see that I know how to have
a balanced life, firmboundaries.
(18:44):
Saying no, it's okay to say no.
Actually, no, I'm good.
Striking that balance, that'sreally, really important.
People say all the time that youactually can have it all, just
not all at once.
I wholeheartedly agree withthat.
And I would actually just throwmy own little remix to that.
(19:05):
I don't want it all.
I don't want it all.
I don't, I'm okay with that.
Five years ago, ten years ago, Iwould have been chasing all of
the things because that's how Iwas programmed.
I don't want all of the things,I just want to be safe, happy,
(19:26):
healthy, balanced, loved, andhealed.
That's it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:31):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (19:31):
I want to do good work.
I want to help people, I want tohelp people reach their goals.
That's literally all I want todo.
So that's my aspiration now, asopposed to whatever it was that
I thought was achievementbefore.
This is sort of me resettingwhat achievement means to me at
(19:54):
this point in my life.
SPEAKER_01 (19:56):
Oh my goodness, that is so good.
What I love most.
Most about that is yes, you'redrinking your water and getting
rest, but the your answer tothat question was like, I've
changed my mind on what I viewas accomplishment, or what I
view as a really good day, orwhat I view as, and and that in
itself is a form of rest.
(20:17):
You're allowing your ambition tolike chill out for a minute, and
you're allowing yourself to havespace and margin, like shout out
to having margin in the day,right?
SPEAKER_00 (20:31):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (20:32):
Having space to just be, I think for a lot of women,
Jeffrey Ann, you are you reflectwhat a lot of us feel right now.
And so thank you for sharingthat.
I want to move a little bit intodisruption and how that has
looked at the center and yourlife.
So let's just start with how isthe center sort of challenging
(20:56):
norms or forging new pathwaysfor inclusion and equity?
SPEAKER_00 (21:02):
So I think our programming itself is really a
form of disruption.
So for instance, if you thinkabout just really our name, we
are the center for DEI,innovation and leadership.
And when you Google this, andyou'll probably remember this
conversation from way back whenwe were thinking about we had a
(21:23):
couple of name changes.
So the center originally startedoff as the center for racial
equity.
And that name predates even mejoining Oberlin.
And that name changed from theCenter for Racial Equity to the
Justice, Center for Justice,Equity, Diversity, Inclusion,
(21:44):
Jedi.
And that was the name when Ijoined the center.
And I decided to change thatname because it was really the
thought of that was reallydisruption.
I wanted to disrupt what peoplethink about when they think
about diversity, equity,inclusion.
I wanted to sort of stretch andreach beyond typical and
(22:09):
possibly even stereotypicalthoughts of what a center like
this is about and what a centerlike this can do.
Because too often people thinkabout justice, equity,
diversity, inclusion, and all ofthe quote-unquote alphabet soup
as being very exclusionary andvery limiting.
(22:30):
And that's everything that we'renot.
This center is about really allof humanity, right?
And we really are about ensuringthat we really amplify all of
human difference, right?
I mean, really, that's whatwe're about.
(22:52):
Overlin, as I mentioned before,Oberlin's history is really
about, is really centered onaccess and opportunity,
specifically as it relates tothe education of women and folks
of color.
And so rooted within that isalso rooted in the history of
(23:13):
the center.
And so we're going to lead withthe spirit of access and
opportunity as it specificallyrelates to racial equity.
But we don't want to stop there.
That's where we start, butthat's not where we end, right?
We want to start with racialequity, but we end with
humanity, right?
(23:34):
We end with all of human humandifference.
And so when thinking about whatour name could be, we thought
about how do we make this asbroad based as possible, but
equally attentive to humanityand all of human difference,
right?
And how do we also consider thefuture?
unknown (23:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:00):
Right?
That's where the innovation andthe leadership comes in as well.
We want to think about how howwe will envision the future, how
we want people to envision thefuture.
That in and of itself isdisruptive thinking.
SPEAKER_01 (24:14):
How would you answer the question of what is DEI in
2025?
SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
Well, I think DEI in 2025 is everything, everything
that people, everything thatpeople don't want it to be,
right?
Or everything that folks aremaking it out to be, everything
not, everything that I'm noteven getting that right, but
(24:45):
I'll say this.
And I would argue that probablywith that thinking, it should
be, right?
Because those folks who thinkthat DEI should be canceled
(25:08):
never understood what diversity,equity, and inclusion was in the
first place.
Folks who are proponents of thecancellation of DEI probably
believe that DEI wasexclusionary, was about
marginalization, and that is notwhat DEI is, right?
(25:34):
DEI became something that folkssort of that that grew into
something that folks wereagainst.
But at the core of it, reallydiversity, equity, and inclusion
is really about amplifying,appreciating all forms of human
(25:58):
difference and ensuring that allof us, regardless of our social
location and regardless of thethings that make us different,
that we are celebrated for thosedifferences.
And that's really what it'sabout, right?
It's not about ensuring that onegroup gets something over
another.
(26:19):
Those are the kinds of thingsthat, and also DEI is is made
out to be divisive, right?
And politically charged.
But that's not the DEI or thediversity, equity, inclusion
that I aspire to, right?
SPEAKER_01 (26:34):
This is actually a great segue into sort of going
back into the roles that you'vehad before coming to Oberlin.
For someone who's been at thiswork since you have to tell us
the year that you first startedthis.
I'm curious if you could bringus back to the essence of you
kind of did that.
Like when you were first workingat this, what was sort of the
(26:57):
energy around DEI?
Like remind us how it startedand all the good energy around
the work you were doing.
Where were you, the year, thetime?
What was the reaction, I guess,across the culture for DEI back
then?
SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
I've been doing DEI so long, it wasn't even called
DEI back then, right?
So that's how long I've beendoing that.
So my very first job that wassort of in the space was back in
2001.
Actually, here in the Clevelandarea, I worked at Baldwin
(27:33):
Wallace College, which is nowBaldwin Wallace University.
I worked in admissions and I wasan admissions counselor, and
part of my role was to domulticultural recruitment.
And so at the time, and I hadjust finished my master's degree
(27:53):
in sociology at Cleveland StateUniversity.
And so at the time, my role wasto recruit recruitment efforts
for the college, but there wasthis focus on the recruitment of
underrepresented students ormulticultural students, and that
was the terminology used at thetime.
(28:14):
So I did that for a couple ofyears, and then I transitioned
for the same school into a rolecalled that was titled the
director of multiculturalstudent support services.
So at that time, it wasmulticultural.
They had multicultural affairs,right?
So I was the director ofmulticultural student support
(28:35):
services, and I think that wasin 2003.
And that that was housed in thestudent affairs division.
And I had all of the uh what wewould call the identity-based
groups now.
I had all of the identity-basedstudent groups sort of under my
portfolio, and I was the advisorfor all of the identity-based
(28:59):
groups, the Black StudentAssociation, the Latino Student
Association, the People of ColorUnited Group.
I had all of those groups, andthat was my job was to ensure
that those student-basedidentity groups had all the
support services that they need.
At that time, I decided thateven though I really enjoyed
(29:20):
working with those students, Iwanted to be on the academic
side.
So I went back to pursue my PhD.
And so at that point, I leftCleveland and moved to Florida
to pursue my doctoral studies.
And so from there I did my PhD,studied for four years, and
finished that.
Then I moved into a facultyposition at the University of
(29:41):
North Florida.
While I was at the University ofNorth Florida and in my faculty
role, I was there for 10 years.
I ended up doing some work atUNF, and it was a service, sort
of volunteer capacity.
But while at UNF, I served asthe associate chair for two
(30:02):
years and then the chair of thepresident's commission for it
was a commission on diversityand inclusion.
So it was the it was maybe a60-member organization around
diversity and inclusion.
So I did that for four years asa leadership role, and I was a
(30:22):
founding member of thatorganization.
So I served in that capacity forprobably, I don't know, maybe
six years.
And then after that, I launcheda center or an institute at the
University of North Florida, theInstitute for the Study of Race
and Ethnic Relations, and didthat for four years.
(30:44):
And then I moved into anothercapacity at the University of
Colorado Boulder, anotherDEI-facing role.
So I've done a lot and held acouple other positions in the
DEI space.
So I've been working inDEI-facing roles since 2001.
So for a really, really longtime doing this work.
(31:06):
And so when I said said earlier,it really is about amplifying
the voices and experiences ofunderrepresented groups and also
really about ensuring that humandifference, right?
It's about ensuring that humandifference is front and center,
not about pitting one groupagainst the other.
(31:28):
Charlie, what it's about.
SPEAKER_01 (31:30):
I'm curious during that, as you were rising in your
career, were there challenges,what were the challenges then?
Like it's very clear what thechallenges are now, but did you
experience any thread?
Was there any thread of the ofthe pushback or the criticism or
the dismantling?
(31:51):
Was that happening at in anycapacity throughout your career?
Or is this a completely new ideathat DEI does not belong in
business and academia, etcetera?
SPEAKER_00 (32:04):
I think the there was a hint of those challenges
that we saw when I was living inthe state of Florida.
So we started to see that happenwith those challenges, the
threat to those challenges withstate statewide sort of pushback
against diversity, equity,inclusion at the state, at the
(32:25):
state institutions, at thepublic institutions in the state
of Florida.
Right.
And I think those challengeshappened around 2017, 2018,
something like that.
But you know, prior to that, Idon't think we've seen the level
of statewide and federal policychallenges that we have that we
(32:49):
are currently seeing.
And so this is the newness toit.
SPEAKER_01 (32:53):
Mm-hmm.
I want to see talk about justadvice that you can give.
I know there are a lot ofprofessionals that listen to
this podcast, and people aregoing through different things,
right?
There are layoffs happening inacross sectors.
There, there's uncertaintyaround just, we'll say, the
(33:16):
economy.
And leaders, I feel like,especially have an extra burden
now because of just the state ofthe world.
Let's just put it all in thatpile.
What advice would you offerpeople who are still seeking to
build, making an impact, peoplewho are still trying to be
(33:37):
effective at their jobs andtheir work?
How are you keeping yourselflaser focused when it feels like
sometimes the world is justgetting sort of crazier and
crazier?
SPEAKER_00 (33:50):
Yeah.
So I highly doubt Mel Robbins islistening to this.
Maybe she will.
Maybe somebody will.
SPEAKER_01 (33:56):
Hey, Mel, Mel Robbins, come watch this
podcast.
At least the clip, comment,please.
I know.
SPEAKER_00 (34:02):
I know.
Hey, Mel, would love to be onyour show.
Okay, so when the world getscrazy or people get get crazy,
let them, right?
So that's that's the nod to MelRobbins.
But you know, there are thingsthat are in your control, and
there are things that areoutside of your control.
You have to release the thingsthat are outside of your
(34:23):
control.
Okay, so there's that.
The other thing that I would sayis I learned early on in my
career that I needed mentors andcoaches and sponsors to lean on
those folks, right?
So make sure that folks areidentifying, not one person,
(34:45):
because one person can't be youreverything, right?
Identify a group of mentors,peers, sponsors, coaches who can
give you that feedback andguidance.
The other piece is translate,translate, translate.
Think about your skill set andlearn how to translate that
skill set into something else,right?
(35:06):
We've seen higher ed shift andmorph and change, and to a
certain extent.
It probably is shifting andchanging and probably won't
change back for the foreseeablefuture.
So think about what skills youhave that can shift into
something else, right?
(35:27):
Think about that.
Don't be afraid to be an earlyadopter of technology.
I have always been an earlyadopter of things, and I'm not
talking specifically about AI,but all kinds of technology,
right?
Innovate.
It's it's okay to do that.
Upskill as much as you can, takeadvantage of that.
(35:50):
And gosh, as a woman and as awoman of color, I have always
thought about ways in which Ican translate what I know.
I'm an expert now, right?
There are a lot of things that Ican monetize myself as a
business person, and so I alwaysthink about what I can use and
(36:14):
leverage as an entrepreneur.
Now I am not lovey, so now we'rejust throwing everybody out
here, right?
So I am not a big entrepreneur,but I'm always thinking about
what value I have and how I canuse that to leverage into the
(36:35):
next side hustle or gosh, justadditional streams of income.
And then so I think that we haveto be very intent on that right
now because things are asunstable as they are.
We we cannot just solely rely onone thing to keep us moving.
We have to figure out how we getmultiple things.
(36:57):
So in the event that one thingor our main thing shifts, we
have to have something orseveral things kind of on that
back burner.
SPEAKER_01 (37:08):
And I love how you say that, not out of fear,
because there is a lot ofconversation right now around
you got to have a back plan B, aplan C.
But I love how like the calmnessthat you have about that, around
just you look at it more asleveraging your skill set.
You're an expert.
It's like it's very positive howyou see that.
Well, then I can I can have anentrepreneurial spirit about my
(37:32):
skills.
And and there's no fear, and Idon't sense a lot of fear, like
you gotta have a side hustle,make sure you have a number two,
make sure you're saving it.
It's more like, no, look at thegifts that you have, look at the
margin that you may have too,and figure out how you can move
into monetization, side hustle,business, whatever you want to
(37:52):
name it.
I appreciate that.
Now we're gonna move into rapidfire questions.
Are you ready?
Let's do it.
First thing, what has made yousmile this week?
SPEAKER_00 (38:04):
My kids, my kids, my kids, because they're always
stealing my money.
They always got plans for mymoney.
They're in a purse, they'regrabbing a wallet all the time.
They just always got plans formy money.
That's why I need to come upwith separate strains of income
(38:26):
because they always steal mymoney.
SPEAKER_01 (38:30):
Fun fact we both have daughters named Ava, and I
just love that.
When she talks about her Ava,I'll talk about my Ava.
Okay, what keeps you up atnight?
SPEAKER_00 (38:40):
Oh gosh, this is a separate conversation, but
perimenopause, right?
And I, you know, I go to bedpretty early because I do need
my beauty rest.
And um, the only thing thatkeeps me up at night is having
to get up to go to the restroomin the middle of the night.
(39:00):
That is the only thing.
Because otherwise, you know, Igo to bed at like nine, and it
is so frustrating waking up at 2a.m.
to tinkle.
SPEAKER_01 (39:12):
Perry, Perry's knocking on your door.
Gotta wake it up.
Perry is making it hot in themud.
SPEAKER_00 (39:19):
Home girl knocked on the door.
She showed up with bags, shemoved in.
She sleeping next to you now.
We're nine over here.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (39:26):
She just moved in with all her little stuff.
She lives, she lives with you.
Okay.
What is your North Star?
Dr.
Wilder, the guiding idea orvalue that continues to anchor
your work.
SPEAKER_00 (39:43):
Um, I know who I am.
I know who I am.
I've always known who I am.
And anytime I forget, I have toremind myself, you know who you
are, right?
That's a kind human.
That is a human who reallybelieves in the goodness of
(40:04):
other humans.
And that is also sociology.
I talk about sociology all thetime.
And that is the goodness and thepromise of sociology.
And that is about um solving ordoing our damnedest to solve our
social problems.
(40:25):
And so that is my North Star.
SPEAKER_01 (40:29):
Thank you for your time today, Dr.
Wilder, Executive Director.
She is on the pod, her ownpodcast of the Oberlin Center
for DEI Innovation andLeadership.
It's been a pleasure to spendthis time with you, my friend.
unknown (40:45):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (40:46):
Thank you.
And don't forget, everyone, thisconversation with Dr.
Wilder reminds us thatdisruption is both personal and
collective.
A story shaped by experience.
Lots of it.
You heard the resume,reflection, encourage.
Thank you for listening to theNorth Star and stay tuned for
(41:08):
more conversations at theintersection of leadership and
innovation.
Hey everyone, welcome to the North Star, a
(00:02):
space for conversations onleadership, equity, and justice.
This season we are exploringdisruption and those pivotal
moments when scholars, leaders,and communities challenge
systems and reimagine thefuture.
This is a special episodebecause this is not a familiar
(00:24):
voice to you right now.
It's because we are flipping thescript.
I'm Letitia Bariola, seniorstrategist for communications
and impact for Oberlin Centerfor DEI Innovation and
Leadership.
I'm hosting the show today, andmy guest is the executive
director of the center, Dr.
(00:45):
Jeffrey Ann Wilder.
Hi, Dr.
Wilder.
How are you?
I am well.
I am well.
I want to dive into kind of likelevel set us where you are right
now with your work at thecenter.
So tell us what your day-to-dayis like.
(01:07):
What are some of the projectsyou're working on?
Just drop us right into theseason you're in right now.
SPEAKER_00 (01:13):
Well, before we get into our projects and the work
that we're doing, I first haveto just say that I am sort of
walking into this season with anextreme amount of gratitude and
humility for gosh, just having ajob and being afforded the
(01:33):
incredible luxury and privilegeto still be able to do this work
today.
So it's November of 2025, andwhat a 2025 it has been already.
I say this all the time becauseI do not take being able to do
this work lightly at all.
(01:54):
A year ago, so if we think aboutwhere we were last November, our
lives, a lot of people's lives,looked very different.
There are some of my goodfriends and colleagues who had
jobs working in positions thatwere fully funded, fully
(02:18):
staffed, fully resourced, who nolonger have those jobs, who no
longer have those resources, whono longer have those staffs.
And I feel very fortunate to bein the very small number of
people who are still able to dothis work and to be able to do
this work under the leadershipof folks who recognize how
(02:41):
valuable, how important doingthis type of work is, not for
the sake of doing the work, butfor what the work means to our
broader humanity.
So O'Reilly and Center for DIInnovation and Leadership has
been around since June of 2024.
And we are just getting started.
(03:02):
We have been up to, as folkswould say, some really good
trouble creating the nextgeneration of change makers.
And really, right now, the workhas been about being in good
conversation and really tryingto convene and amplify really
(03:26):
what's left.
Right.
So I I I before we, you know,dig a little bit deeper, I just
had to say that I'm thankful,I'm appreciative, and I
recognize how honored I am to beable to do this work today.
SPEAKER_01 (03:47):
What a way to answer that question.
I love how reflective you areright now because for someone
who's been working alongside yousince the beginning, even though
we still have our jobs, right?
We're working in the DEI space,it doesn't mean it has been
easy.
And you've had a different setof issues remaining still in the
(04:11):
field during this time.
And we talked a little bit aboutthat in our first interview
together.
But now that we're kind of thelandscape is totally different,
and who knows where it'sactually going to land.
But I will say that it does feellike we've been able to take a
little bit of a breath and getback to work in a more visible
(04:32):
way.
The work never ended, right?
But now we're a little bit morevisible.
I'm curious, what did that timedo for you?
Getting the job very soon afterthat, DEI began to be
dismantled.
I mean, at the level atacademia, right?
Like right where you sit.
(04:54):
And you still had to do thework.
Keep your head down, do thework, keep your head down, do
the work.
Now that we're here and we arenow public with the podcast,
we're doing a little activity onLinkedIn.
It's interesting to hear youhave so much gratitude for that,
for that time, and that you'restill here, right?
So talk a little bit more abouthow it was to be propping up a
(05:19):
DEI center at a time where DEIin business, academia, you name
it, was being attacked.
And still is to an extent.
SPEAKER_00 (05:30):
It definitely felt a little odd and to be honest,
very lonely.
Because when you think aboutdoing this work, especially, and
you know, so I'm a sociologistby training.
I've had my PhD in sociology forI don't know, 18 years.
And I've been working in thehigher ed space for, I don't
(05:54):
know, gosh.
I like to think of myself as ayoung kid, but I'm not.
I've been working in the highered space for over 20 years.
I've been working, educatingcollege age, and I shouldn't
even say college age, working atthe college level, working at
the collegiate level for acouple of decades now.
(06:16):
And so when you think aboutdoing that kind of work, you're
always doing it in some sort ofcommunity, right?
So doing sociology and doing thesociology that I do, you're
always doing it in community.
You're doing it with others.
It's public work, it's communitywork, even teaching.
And so this felt very differentbecause to your left, to your
(06:41):
right, to the center, people,programs, initiatives literally
being dismantled overnight.
And then the folks who are leftaren't sure how long their work
is going to be around.
And so it's definitely quitelonely.
And so it's like buildingsomething in quicksand, first of
(07:06):
all, and building something inquicksand in solitude in the
dark, right?
So if you're thinking aboutdoing that, but then also in
doing all of that, you'rebuilding something that you do
at the same time have the buy-inof your leader, the leadership
(07:29):
at Oberlin.
And so the community at Oberlin,the history of Oberlin, so
you're you've got the thatconnection there.
But at the same time, it's stillvery lonely in a way.
And so doing that, you stillhave to find a way to gather
(07:51):
your community.
And so for me, continuing to dothe work, and after a while, I
realized that my community, Ihad to sort of build and sort of
gather, maybe not necessarily mypeers in my regional community,
but I had to find peers in otherplaces.
(08:13):
And oddly, or maybe notnecessarily oddly, but luckily
enough, I found community inplaces that I didn't necessarily
think I was going to.
For me at Oberlin, I foundcommunity in the programs that I
was building, right?
So for instance, we launchedthis Changemakers Fellowship for
(08:36):
undergraduate students.
And so as I was building thisprogram for students, I was also
building community for myself.
As we were building communitypartnerships, I was building
community for myself.
We're building this podcast,which initially started private
and now is public.
We're building community.
(08:57):
And so it's been really nice tobe able to create something that
we were again initially buildingquietly in the dark, in
quicksand, sort of in a lot ofways in solitude, where we're
now being able to see a littlebit of sunshine, right?
(09:18):
We've got some community, andit's really gaining momentum,
and it's quite lovely.
And and like I said before,we're only just beginning.
And what we have found is thatwe have emerged for other people
as this North Star, which isonly fitting because this is
(09:39):
Oberlin, right?
The first institution to createaccess and opportunity for
underrepresented populations.
And so in Oberlin's thirdgeneration, so Oberlin was
founded in 1833.
This is only fitting that inthis moment now that this is how
Oberlin emerges, that we areusing this center as the North
(10:04):
Star as we emerge in this veryuncertain time in our lifetimes.
We've never been in a space likethis in our lifetimes.
We're using this opportunity toemerge and find a path forward,
build community, buildconnection, and create
conversation and some sense ofstability for everyone as much
(10:27):
as we can.
SPEAKER_01 (10:29):
When you think about the work that you're doing, I
know that we we had to almostlike level set and be like,
first, let's just talk aboutwhere we came from.
Like we're doing work now, butlet's like have a moment to just
honor what the last year and ahalf has been like.
And so now let's kind of go backto that first question around
(10:52):
like, what is the day in life ofthe executive director for
Oberlin Center for DEI,innovation and leadership?
What is your days like thesedays?
SPEAKER_00 (11:04):
It's creating a lot of, you know, I would say like
it's adding a lot of meat to thebones, right?
So we spent a lot of timeinitially thinking about like,
you know, what the structurewould look like for the center.
Like, what do we want to do?
What kinds of things areimportant to us?
(11:25):
So, President Carmen Twile-AnnBar, who is the president of
Oberlin College, she's in herninth year at Oberlin, and she
was very intent on creating thiscenter, and she had a vision for
it.
And she shared her vision forthe center with me.
And so when I first started, Ithought about what she shared as
(11:45):
her vision and what thecommunity members shared as
their vision for Oberlin andalso thinking about the history
of Oberlin and the legacy ofthat.
And so I spent a large part ofmy first year at Oberlin
thinking about sort oftranslating that vision into a
broader kind of sketch for whatthat work could be, right?
(12:08):
And so we've got sort of fourpillars of the work that we do
in the center (12:12):
communication and thought leadership, where we
will convene conversations,right?
So this is what we're doingright now through the podcast.
We have a research pillar wherewe will think about originating
research, but also sharing outthe research of others.
We have an education andtraining pillar where we would
(12:35):
like to think about curricularinnovation and finally
community, because as Imentioned before, community is
really important.
So that first year was reallyabout creating that
infrastructure, building up thatinfrastructure.
And now it's about flushing outthe work in those four pillars.
So I will say that the days arevery busy, no two days are the
(12:59):
same, and it really is all aboutcontinuing to flush those things
out.
I'm teaching a class thissemester.
So that fellowship program thatI shared earlier, we launched
that this year, and I'm teachinga class connected to that
fellowship program.
So I'm teaching a leadership andsocial change class.
(13:19):
So in addition to sort of myadministrative hat, um I'm
grading midterms, which is a tonof fun.
And so there's all kinds ofthings that is a part of the
work.
There's also you got to thinkabout how you're gonna be
innovative, how you're gonnastretch your resources.
There is a fundraising piece atsome point that we need to do.
(13:42):
So no two days are the same.
And I consider myself both ageneralist, but also a
specialist.
You've got to do all kinds ofthings leading the center.
There's a human resource elementto it as well, because I have uh
staff and things that I have todo connected to that.
So uh no two da two days are thesame.
(14:03):
It's a ton of work, but man, itactually is so fulfilling and
it's a it's so enjoyable.
And I have to say, and I'veshared this before, I'm an
educator at heart.
I mean, I think that is probablyone of my first loves is
students.
And so having the opportunity toteach and interact with students
(14:29):
is literally one of the bestthings.
And so I have really enjoyedbeing able to do that again.
So that's been a ton of fun aswell.
SPEAKER_01 (14:38):
Well, what you didn't mention, and I want to
add this layer to yourday-to-day, is that you are a
mom of two girls.
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (14:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (14:48):
Yes.
And so you have this big jobwith a lot of responsibility,
juggling so you all the pillars,staff, your teaching.
There's a lot happening there.
But you also go home and you area mom.
There's also a commute elementto your work, right?
Back and forth between campusand working remote.
(15:11):
And then there's this wholehuman that is you that needs to
be fed, slept, have some fun.
So the question here is aroundyou represent so many of us,
right?
The hustle of the big job andbeing a mom and trying to take
care of ourself.
So I'm curious.
Annie just recently had abirthday where I know you did
(15:32):
some reflection.
So I'm curious, what doesself-care?
How are you taking care ofyourself in the midst of all of
this?
What does that look like rightnow?
SPEAKER_00 (15:43):
Believe it or not, I pledged to do less and not more
uh this year.
So I am not gonna share whatbirthday it was.
And they say that black don'tcrack, but it kind of does,
right?
And I let's just say this I amstaring at milestone birthday in
(16:06):
the face, right?
So I didn't have a milestonebirthday, but I got one coming
rather soon.
But I am gonna enjoy the thebirthday that I just celebrated
about a week or so ago.
And what I have learned um overthe years is that, or and really
just recently, is that Iaccomplished a lot over the
(16:28):
course of my adulthood.
And one of the things that I wasreally that meant a lot to me
was accomplishing more things,right?
Set a goal, achieve the goal.
And when you're almost finishedwith that goal, you set the next
goal.
And that next goal has to be ahigher goal than the previous
(16:51):
one.
And then you set the next oneand the next one.
I finished my PhD at 31 yearsold.
And when I was finishing my PhDat 31 years old, I thought,
gosh, I'm probably three to fouryears later than I would like to
have been, which is a silly,silly thought at the time,
right?
Like, that's silly.
Finished my PhD at 31 years old.
(17:13):
That's super young, right?
Like, what are you doing?
Now I did have a lot of fun, soI do know how to have fun.
And so that's always somethingthat has been a sort of a credo
of mine.
You know, you work hard, youplay hard.
But what I have sort of settledinto at this phase of my life is
that I don't have to rush and Idon't have to accomplish all the
(17:37):
things, right?
Less really is more.
It really, really is.
And there is there are notimetables for me anymore.
Like, I am not like I honestly,like, what's what's the next
thing?
I don't know.
Whatever the good Lord says.
Seriously, I mean, somethingthat is an accomplishment for me
(18:01):
at this point in my life is likegetting my rest, drinking my
water, minding my business.
And that's so cliche, but it isso true.
I am not chasing anything else.
My dream is to make sure that mytwo girls, once they grow up,
(18:21):
they say that they had a goodchildhood.
Their childhood was stable andthey have great memories, and
that mommy was present.
That's literally like what I'maspiring to, right?
Not chasing the next thing or sothey see that I know how to have
a balanced life, firmboundaries.
(18:44):
Saying no, it's okay to say no.
Actually, no, I'm good.
Striking that balance, that'sreally, really important.
People say all the time that youactually can have it all, just
not all at once.
I wholeheartedly agree withthat.
And I would actually just throwmy own little remix to that.
(19:05):
I don't want it all.
I don't want it all.
I don't, I'm okay with that.
Five years ago, ten years ago, Iwould have been chasing all of
the things because that's how Iwas programmed.
I don't want all of the things,I just want to be safe, happy,
(19:26):
healthy, balanced, loved, andhealed.
That's it.
SPEAKER_01 (19:31):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (19:31):
I want to do good work.
I want to help people, I want tohelp people reach their goals.
That's literally all I want todo.
So that's my aspiration now, asopposed to whatever it was that
I thought was achievementbefore.
This is sort of me resettingwhat achievement means to me at
(19:54):
this point in my life.
SPEAKER_01 (19:56):
Oh my goodness, that is so good.
What I love most.
Most about that is yes, you'redrinking your water and getting
rest, but the your answer tothat question was like, I've
changed my mind on what I viewas accomplishment, or what I
view as a really good day, orwhat I view as, and and that in
itself is a form of rest.
(20:17):
You're allowing your ambition tolike chill out for a minute, and
you're allowing yourself to havespace and margin, like shout out
to having margin in the day,right?
SPEAKER_00 (20:31):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (20:32):
Having space to just be, I think for a lot of women,
Jeffrey Ann, you are you reflectwhat a lot of us feel right now.
And so thank you for sharingthat.
I want to move a little bit intodisruption and how that has
looked at the center and yourlife.
So let's just start with how isthe center sort of challenging
(20:56):
norms or forging new pathwaysfor inclusion and equity?
SPEAKER_00 (21:02):
So I think our programming itself is really a
form of disruption.
So for instance, if you thinkabout just really our name, we
are the center for DEI,innovation and leadership.
And when you Google this, andyou'll probably remember this
conversation from way back whenwe were thinking about we had a
(21:23):
couple of name changes.
So the center originally startedoff as the center for racial
equity.
And that name predates even mejoining Oberlin.
And that name changed from theCenter for Racial Equity to the
Justice, Center for Justice,Equity, Diversity, Inclusion,
(21:44):
Jedi.
And that was the name when Ijoined the center.
And I decided to change thatname because it was really the
thought of that was reallydisruption.
I wanted to disrupt what peoplethink about when they think
about diversity, equity,inclusion.
I wanted to sort of stretch andreach beyond typical and
(22:09):
possibly even stereotypicalthoughts of what a center like
this is about and what a centerlike this can do.
Because too often people thinkabout justice, equity,
diversity, inclusion, and all ofthe quote-unquote alphabet soup
as being very exclusionary andvery limiting.
(22:30):
And that's everything that we'renot.
This center is about really allof humanity, right?
And we really are about ensuringthat we really amplify all of
human difference, right?
I mean, really, that's whatwe're about.
(22:52):
Overlin, as I mentioned before,Oberlin's history is really
about, is really centered onaccess and opportunity,
specifically as it relates tothe education of women and folks
of color.
And so rooted within that isalso rooted in the history of
(23:13):
the center.
And so we're going to lead withthe spirit of access and
opportunity as it specificallyrelates to racial equity.
But we don't want to stop there.
That's where we start, butthat's not where we end, right?
We want to start with racialequity, but we end with
humanity, right?
(23:34):
We end with all of human humandifference.
And so when thinking about whatour name could be, we thought
about how do we make this asbroad based as possible, but
equally attentive to humanityand all of human difference,
right?
And how do we also consider thefuture?
unknown (23:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:00):
Right?
That's where the innovation andthe leadership comes in as well.
We want to think about how howwe will envision the future, how
we want people to envision thefuture.
That in and of itself isdisruptive thinking.
SPEAKER_01 (24:14):
How would you answer the question of what is DEI in
2025?
SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
Well, I think DEI in 2025 is everything, everything
that people, everything thatpeople don't want it to be,
right?
Or everything that folks aremaking it out to be, everything
not, everything that I'm noteven getting that right, but
(24:45):
I'll say this.
And I would argue that probablywith that thinking, it should
be, right?
Because those folks who thinkthat DEI should be canceled
(25:08):
never understood what diversity,equity, and inclusion was in the
first place.
Folks who are proponents of thecancellation of DEI probably
believe that DEI wasexclusionary, was about
marginalization, and that is notwhat DEI is, right?
(25:34):
DEI became something that folkssort of that that grew into
something that folks wereagainst.
But at the core of it, reallydiversity, equity, and inclusion
is really about amplifying,appreciating all forms of human
(25:58):
difference and ensuring that allof us, regardless of our social
location and regardless of thethings that make us different,
that we are celebrated for thosedifferences.
And that's really what it'sabout, right?
It's not about ensuring that onegroup gets something over
another.
(26:19):
Those are the kinds of thingsthat, and also DEI is is made
out to be divisive, right?
And politically charged.
But that's not the DEI or thediversity, equity, inclusion
that I aspire to, right?
SPEAKER_01 (26:34):
This is actually a great segue into sort of going
back into the roles that you'vehad before coming to Oberlin.
For someone who's been at thiswork since you have to tell us
the year that you first startedthis.
I'm curious if you could bringus back to the essence of you
kind of did that.
Like when you were first workingat this, what was sort of the
(26:57):
energy around DEI?
Like remind us how it startedand all the good energy around
the work you were doing.
Where were you, the year, thetime?
What was the reaction, I guess,across the culture for DEI back
then?
SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
I've been doing DEI so long, it wasn't even called
DEI back then, right?
So that's how long I've beendoing that.
So my very first job that wassort of in the space was back in
2001.
Actually, here in the Clevelandarea, I worked at Baldwin
(27:33):
Wallace College, which is nowBaldwin Wallace University.
I worked in admissions and I wasan admissions counselor, and
part of my role was to domulticultural recruitment.
And so at the time, and I hadjust finished my master's degree
(27:53):
in sociology at Cleveland StateUniversity.
And so at the time, my role wasto recruit recruitment efforts
for the college, but there wasthis focus on the recruitment of
underrepresented students ormulticultural students, and that
was the terminology used at thetime.
(28:14):
So I did that for a couple ofyears, and then I transitioned
for the same school into a rolecalled that was titled the
director of multiculturalstudent support services.
So at that time, it wasmulticultural.
They had multicultural affairs,right?
So I was the director ofmulticultural student support
(28:35):
services, and I think that wasin 2003.
And that that was housed in thestudent affairs division.
And I had all of the uh what wewould call the identity-based
groups now.
I had all of the identity-basedstudent groups sort of under my
portfolio, and I was the advisorfor all of the identity-based
(28:59):
groups, the Black StudentAssociation, the Latino Student
Association, the People of ColorUnited Group.
I had all of those groups, andthat was my job was to ensure
that those student-basedidentity groups had all the
support services that they need.
At that time, I decided thateven though I really enjoyed
(29:20):
working with those students, Iwanted to be on the academic
side.
So I went back to pursue my PhD.
And so at that point, I leftCleveland and moved to Florida
to pursue my doctoral studies.
And so from there I did my PhD,studied for four years, and
finished that.
Then I moved into a facultyposition at the University of
(29:41):
North Florida.
While I was at the University ofNorth Florida and in my faculty
role, I was there for 10 years.
I ended up doing some work atUNF, and it was a service, sort
of volunteer capacity.
But while at UNF, I served asthe associate chair for two
(30:02):
years and then the chair of thepresident's commission for it
was a commission on diversityand inclusion.
So it was the it was maybe a60-member organization around
diversity and inclusion.
So I did that for four years asa leadership role, and I was a
(30:22):
founding member of thatorganization.
So I served in that capacity forprobably, I don't know, maybe
six years.
And then after that, I launcheda center or an institute at the
University of North Florida, theInstitute for the Study of Race
and Ethnic Relations, and didthat for four years.
(30:44):
And then I moved into anothercapacity at the University of
Colorado Boulder, anotherDEI-facing role.
So I've done a lot and held acouple other positions in the
DEI space.
So I've been working inDEI-facing roles since 2001.
So for a really, really longtime doing this work.
(31:06):
And so when I said said earlier,it really is about amplifying
the voices and experiences ofunderrepresented groups and also
really about ensuring that humandifference, right?
It's about ensuring that humandifference is front and center,
not about pitting one groupagainst the other.
(31:28):
Charlie, what it's about.
SPEAKER_01 (31:30):
I'm curious during that, as you were rising in your
career, were there challenges,what were the challenges then?
Like it's very clear what thechallenges are now, but did you
experience any thread?
Was there any thread of the ofthe pushback or the criticism or
the dismantling?
(31:51):
Was that happening at in anycapacity throughout your career?
Or is this a completely new ideathat DEI does not belong in
business and academia, etcetera?
SPEAKER_00 (32:04):
I think the there was a hint of those challenges
that we saw when I was living inthe state of Florida.
So we started to see that happenwith those challenges, the
threat to those challenges withstate statewide sort of pushback
against diversity, equity,inclusion at the state, at the
(32:25):
state institutions, at thepublic institutions in the state
of Florida.
Right.
And I think those challengeshappened around 2017, 2018,
something like that.
But you know, prior to that, Idon't think we've seen the level
of statewide and federal policychallenges that we have that we
(32:49):
are currently seeing.
And so this is the newness toit.
SPEAKER_01 (32:53):
Mm-hmm.
I want to see talk about justadvice that you can give.
I know there are a lot ofprofessionals that listen to
this podcast, and people aregoing through different things,
right?
There are layoffs happening inacross sectors.
There, there's uncertaintyaround just, we'll say, the
(33:16):
economy.
And leaders, I feel like,especially have an extra burden
now because of just the state ofthe world.
Let's just put it all in thatpile.
What advice would you offerpeople who are still seeking to
build, making an impact, peoplewho are still trying to be
(33:37):
effective at their jobs andtheir work?
How are you keeping yourselflaser focused when it feels like
sometimes the world is justgetting sort of crazier and
crazier?
SPEAKER_00 (33:50):
Yeah.
So I highly doubt Mel Robbins islistening to this.
Maybe she will.
Maybe somebody will.
SPEAKER_01 (33:56):
Hey, Mel, Mel Robbins, come watch this
podcast.
At least the clip, comment,please.
I know.
SPEAKER_00 (34:02):
I know.
Hey, Mel, would love to be onyour show.
Okay, so when the world getscrazy or people get get crazy,
let them, right?
So that's that's the nod to MelRobbins.
But you know, there are thingsthat are in your control, and
there are things that areoutside of your control.
You have to release the thingsthat are outside of your
(34:23):
control.
Okay, so there's that.
The other thing that I would sayis I learned early on in my
career that I needed mentors andcoaches and sponsors to lean on
those folks, right?
So make sure that folks areidentifying, not one person,
(34:45):
because one person can't be youreverything, right?
Identify a group of mentors,peers, sponsors, coaches who can
give you that feedback andguidance.
The other piece is translate,translate, translate.
Think about your skill set andlearn how to translate that
skill set into something else,right?
(35:06):
We've seen higher ed shift andmorph and change, and to a
certain extent.
It probably is shifting andchanging and probably won't
change back for the foreseeablefuture.
So think about what skills youhave that can shift into
something else, right?
(35:27):
Think about that.
Don't be afraid to be an earlyadopter of technology.
I have always been an earlyadopter of things, and I'm not
talking specifically about AI,but all kinds of technology,
right?
Innovate.
It's it's okay to do that.
Upskill as much as you can, takeadvantage of that.
(35:50):
And gosh, as a woman and as awoman of color, I have always
thought about ways in which Ican translate what I know.
I'm an expert now, right?
There are a lot of things that Ican monetize myself as a
business person, and so I alwaysthink about what I can use and
(36:14):
leverage as an entrepreneur.
Now I am not lovey, so now we'rejust throwing everybody out
here, right?
So I am not a big entrepreneur,but I'm always thinking about
what value I have and how I canuse that to leverage into the
(36:35):
next side hustle or gosh, justadditional streams of income.
And then so I think that we haveto be very intent on that right
now because things are asunstable as they are.
We we cannot just solely rely onone thing to keep us moving.
We have to figure out how we getmultiple things.
(36:57):
So in the event that one thingor our main thing shifts, we
have to have something orseveral things kind of on that
back burner.
SPEAKER_01 (37:08):
And I love how you say that, not out of fear,
because there is a lot ofconversation right now around
you got to have a back plan B, aplan C.
But I love how like the calmnessthat you have about that, around
just you look at it more asleveraging your skill set.
You're an expert.
It's like it's very positive howyou see that.
Well, then I can I can have anentrepreneurial spirit about my
(37:32):
skills.
And and there's no fear, and Idon't sense a lot of fear, like
you gotta have a side hustle,make sure you have a number two,
make sure you're saving it.
It's more like, no, look at thegifts that you have, look at the
margin that you may have too,and figure out how you can move
into monetization, side hustle,business, whatever you want to
(37:52):
name it.
I appreciate that.
Now we're gonna move into rapidfire questions.
Are you ready?
Let's do it.
First thing, what has made yousmile this week?
SPEAKER_00 (38:04):
My kids, my kids, my kids, because they're always
stealing my money.
They always got plans for mymoney.
They're in a purse, they'regrabbing a wallet all the time.
They just always got plans formy money.
That's why I need to come upwith separate strains of income
(38:26):
because they always steal mymoney.
SPEAKER_01 (38:30):
Fun fact we both have daughters named Ava, and I
just love that.
When she talks about her Ava,I'll talk about my Ava.
Okay, what keeps you up atnight?
SPEAKER_00 (38:40):
Oh gosh, this is a separate conversation, but
perimenopause, right?
And I, you know, I go to bedpretty early because I do need
my beauty rest.
And um, the only thing thatkeeps me up at night is having
to get up to go to the restroomin the middle of the night.
(39:00):
That is the only thing.
Because otherwise, you know, Igo to bed at like nine, and it
is so frustrating waking up at 2a.m.
to tinkle.
SPEAKER_01 (39:12):
Perry, Perry's knocking on your door.
Gotta wake it up.
Perry is making it hot in themud.
SPEAKER_00 (39:19):
Home girl knocked on the door.
She showed up with bags, shemoved in.
She sleeping next to you now.
We're nine over here.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (39:26):
She just moved in with all her little stuff.
She lives, she lives with you.
Okay.
What is your North Star?
Dr.
Wilder, the guiding idea orvalue that continues to anchor
your work.
SPEAKER_00 (39:43):
Um, I know who I am.
I know who I am.
I've always known who I am.
And anytime I forget, I have toremind myself, you know who you
are, right?
That's a kind human.
That is a human who reallybelieves in the goodness of
(40:04):
other humans.
And that is also sociology.
I talk about sociology all thetime.
And that is the goodness and thepromise of sociology.
And that is about um solving ordoing our damnedest to solve our
social problems.
(40:25):
And so that is my North Star.
SPEAKER_01 (40:29):
Thank you for your time today, Dr.
Wilder, Executive Director.
She is on the pod, her ownpodcast of the Oberlin Center
for DEI Innovation andLeadership.
It's been a pleasure to spendthis time with you, my friend.
unknown (40:45):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (40:46):
Thank you.
And don't forget, everyone, thisconversation with Dr.
Wilder reminds us thatdisruption is both personal and
collective.
A story shaped by experience.
Lots of it.
You heard the resume,reflection, encourage.
Thank you for listening to theNorth Star and stay tuned for
(41:08):
more conversations at theintersection of leadership and
innovation.
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