September 19, 2025 • 44 mins
Dr. Herman Felton shares his remarkable journey from growing up in Jacksonville's inner city to becoming the 17th president of Wiley University, a transformative leader who has redefined what it means to lead an HBCU in today's challenging landscape.
• Product of "scarcity" who discovered his dyslexia later in life
• Joined the Marine Corps before attending Edward Waters College as a non-traditional student at age 28
• Inspired to pursue higher education leadership after witnessing his college president defend open-door admissions
• Views his role as a "disruptor" through the lens of resolve and faith
• Leads Wiley University with an understanding of its historical significance as a place founded in a Confederate stronghold
• Navigates today's higher education challenges with a measured, faith-based approach
• Co-founded the Higher Education Leadership Foundation that has produced 16 HBCU presidents in 10 years
• Believes future HBCU leaders need both specialist knowledge and a generalist understanding of all university operations
• Maintains that effective leaders ascend to the presidency rather than pursuing the title itself
• Hopes his legacy will be the multiplication of fearless, bold leaders committed to HBCU work
🔗 Find out more about Dr. JeffriAnne Wilder.
🔗 Follow the Center for DEI Innovation and Leadership on LinkedIn.
🌎Visit Oberlin College's website.
Podcast Produced by: Paradigm Media Group
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the North Star, a space for candid
conversations on leadership,equity and social justice.
This season, we're exploringdisruption how bold leaders are
challenging norms and shapingthe future.
Welcome to Season 2.
Today, I have the distinctpleasure of being joined by Dr
(00:20):
Herman Felton, the 17thpresident of Wiley University.
A disruptor in higher education, who has redefined what it
means to lead an HBCU in thismoment.
From building innovativeleadership incubators to
navigating today's challengesfor historically black colleges
and universities, his careeroffers powerful lessons in
(00:43):
resilience, vision andtransformation.
Welcome, dr Felton.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Thank you, dr Wilder, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
You know, before we get started, about your
leadership journey and what itmeans to lead Wiley University
let's take it all the way back,if you don't mind Of course so
before we get started, I sharedhow I spent 12 years living in
Jacksonville, Florida, which isyour hometown.
Would you mind sharing with uswhat it was like growing up in?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Jacksonville, duval County was.
Duval, as they say right, it wasa great experience.
You know it was a greatexperience.
You know I grew up in maybe afive mile radius and so it
wasn't until I got into theMarine Corps did I really
understand just how bigJacksonville was.
(01:35):
I'm product of scarcity.
I used to say poverty, but Iwent to Africa.
I now understand that we justhad meager resources.
We were not in poverty.
So I grew up.
My mother raised six of us.
We grew up in the inner cityprojects and went through public
(01:55):
school, had a good time doingall the things that kids who are
products of that environment dogot in a little bit of trouble,
play sports, but fairly.
You know, unremarkablechildhood experience.
By all accounts, I had no ideathat I was dyslexic, so I don't
(02:17):
know if that's an indictment onyou know, the school system or
the zip code that I was in,whether or not we had looking
back on it now.
We had great teachers, but Idon't know that they had the
resources to really grapple withkids coming from my background,
and so I pushed through highschool, didn't graduate.
(02:40):
By the time I got to the 12thgrade I was in a little trouble,
or what would be the 12th grade?
I repeated the 11th and was,you know, strongly encouraged to
go into the Marine Corps bysomeone in law enforcement and
someone with a robe on.
So I went into the Marine Corpsand enjoyed life after.
(03:02):
But growing up I had all thelittle league sports, the Pop
Warner, football, we, we did allthe mischievous things and, of
course, navigating through the80s.
You know the crack pandemic andepidemic.
It hit us hard but we navigatedthrough those things and I
(03:27):
think I had.
I'm grateful for my childhoodbut it was pretty cool growing
up in Jacksonville.
They were anti growth back inthe early 80s and late 80s and
early 90s, so it wasn't what itis today but it was a pretty
cool space to grow up in.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Okay, all right, so fast forward.
Growing up in Jacksonville, Irecall just knowing a little bit
about your background you spentsome time in the Marine Corps
and then you end up going to andattending college as a
non-traditional student at theoldest historically-backed
college in the state of FloridaEdward Waters, now University
(04:07):
right and then you end up in lawschool at the University of
Florida.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
How did you get?
Speaker 1 (04:12):
from Edward Waters to UF Law.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Dear old Edward Waters.
I was working at the bulk mailprocessing center for the US
Postal Service, which was mydream job, and I realized that
there was something more.
So I went to enroll into FCJ atthe time, but it's called
(04:36):
Florida State and CommunityState College now, and there was
a recruiter from Everett Watersthere and asked if I'd ever
thought about going to EdwardWaters.
Had no idea what it was.
I said look, I only have a GED,so if I can get in I'd be happy
to come.
I went with him and the restwas history.
(04:56):
That how I got to Florida wasdirectly attributable to one the
culture and the community.
But granularly I was the SGApresident and at the time my
(05:17):
president, dr Jimmy R Jenkins Sr.
We were in a board meeting.
It was my first as a studenttrustee and I sat and watched
the board, you know, really makea decision, or try to make a
decision, about increasing theadmission standards and getting
rid of the open door policy, andI had no idea how much that two
(05:37):
hour session would change thetrajectory of my life.
One after another, each boardmember went around the table
arguing to do this, to increasethe standards, to get a
different type of student, etcetera, et cetera.
And if I'd ever seen assaultwith a deadly weapon verbal
(06:02):
being the weapon, the mouth, thetongue being the weapon
occurred, this was my first timewatching a powerful orator and
a persuasive person.
But he tied the mission why wewere ever founded, the mission
of Edward Waters, where we aretoday and where we're going.
(06:23):
It shifted the movement and Ithought that's what I want to do
.
I got into college because itwas open door admissions, but it
was something about advocatingfor the least of us which I
couldn't articulate then.
But it was that and it led meto a dinner with him to tell him
, like I'd like to do what youdo when I grow up.
(06:45):
And he told me I needed to geta terminal degree and I couldn't
determine what area of focus.
So we went back and forth aboutthat and he said, well, we'll
go get a law degree.
And that's how it happened Wentout to the University of
Florida and got that degree fromthere, but it was only for a
(07:09):
meal ticket to be qualified tosatisfy the doctoral degree, to
be a college friend.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
But even in that story right.
So we're thinking about.
What we're really interested inhearing over the course of this
season is about disruption, andeven in that story I heard
disruption right when you thinkabout leadership, particularly
college presidencies right.
It's all about being a disruptorand a change agent, right?
(07:41):
So you've often been describedas a disruptor throughout your
career.
How do you see that wordapplying beyond that moment
sitting in the board of trusteeswhen you decided okay, I don't
know how I'm going to get there,but I need to become a college
president?
Beyond that moment, how else doyou see that word applying to
the rest of your career?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
You know, it wasn't until two years ago.
Three years ago, my sister, myyoungest sister, made all of us
do the Ancestrycom, and that ledto African Ancestrycom.
And that led to a genealogistand we traced our origin, and I
(08:23):
am Ashanti, the Akan people ofwhat is modern day, accra, ghana
.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
That the Ashanti war, the Akan warrior is fearless.
The descriptors fit what I amtoday and I don't know if it is
so much a disruptor.
I think it's much more about.
I think disruptor is usedbecause it seems to be uncommon,
(08:55):
but I think it's resolve.
It's resolve with faith right,like, I think, the relationship
that I have with God now.
My mom always made us go tochurch and, you know, being the
maladjusted child in the familyout of the bunch, I didn't care
too much for church, but it iseverything for me now, and after
(09:18):
going to the Marine Corps, Istarted to develop a very strong
personal faith, and so myconversations with God are very
clear and I'm resolved when Ileave those.
And so, watching that momentand looking at what I did to
(09:40):
fight through being dyslexic toeven navigate high school and
memorizing everything that Icould possibly do to save myself
from embarrassment or the fearof my secret being let out, that
was disruption for me, that wasresolve.
It was I need to do this.
(10:00):
So I've been more in tune withthoughts that I think I have are
really implanted visions fromGod, and if it is with me, I'm
clear that it is from him, andso I'm resolved about doing my
father's business.
So it was so impactful to havesomebody advocate for you.
(10:22):
And you know, when I went toEdward Waters I was 28 years old
and that was my first encounterwith President Jenkins was the
first time a black man said tome you can do whatever you want.
He said that in a bridgeprogram and that was something
that was.
I had no idea that I wasmissing, but as soon as I heard
(10:47):
it it resonated and it filled avoid.
But it also created a yearningfor more affirmation from a male
, a black male.
And so I set out to you know,really please him.
(11:07):
I set out to you know, reallyplease him.
But I think that moment isintertwined with my origin story
, who I am and where I'm from,and my mother diminutive stature
, you know, 4'11" was the mostfierce resolve go-getter that
I've ever met.
So I think in earnest, it's allbeen inside and what I
inherently believe there's aspark waiting to be tapped for
(11:30):
implosion or explosion in all ofus and I think that moment
culminated a series of eventsthat put me on the trajectory to
find where I think great impactfor a great portion of my life
will be made, and that's it.
Higher education at a blackcollege.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
What I'm hearing is that you've been in training for
this role for a really longtime, right, yeah, so you've
been at Wiley since 2017, andthis is not your first
presidency at an HBCU, and yourpath into the presidency wasn't
necessarily a traditional one.
(12:12):
How has that path shaped yourperspective on leadership in
higher education?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
So it's afforded me this opportunity to be in spaces
that, had I not went to college, I wouldn't be in.
No knock to the talented 10th,but oftentimes there's not
enough room for the 90percentile of the populace, and
(12:40):
that thought is oftentimescentered around the 10%, and I'm
the 90%.
That is who I am, that isfundamentally who I am, and so
the idea of opening the apertureof the 10% so that as many of
the 90 percentile folk can comethrough is what motivates me.
(13:04):
90 percentile vote can comethrough is what motivates me.
I absolutely love to be inspaces where people
automatically assume I'm twoparent, upper crest, you know,
suburban child because of myeducational attainments, and I
think it'd be, you know furtherfor the first generation on both
sides to go to college andcertainly to achieve this
(13:28):
profession.
So what it does for me is fightharder for hermits, because
there are goo gobs of them outthere, right.
And so the idea to be resolved,about filling a void is what?
What drives me daily in mypersonal and professional life.
(13:49):
Professionally, knowing that weare a peculiar people all
humans are.
But I think about thechallenges and the obstacles
that we've overcome, and I'mvery clear that being the
(14:09):
progeny of enslaved meanssomething already the fact that
my ancestors actually survivedthe atrocities means that,
through my blood and the verybeing of me as a person who is
destined for somethingremarkable and being really a
(14:30):
battering ram to open up thatdoor for others, for all, is
something that I take pride in,and so I think that resolve to
you know, open up the apertureso everybody can run come get in
, is what really really drivesthe edge.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
So that's actually a really great setup for.
My next question is sort ofyour approach to being the
president at Wiley, and I knowthat your approach is really one
that is sort of rooted in beingbold and audacious right.
And we know that for some folkswho may not know, and we know
that for some folks who may notknow, you know Wiley University.
Wiley, formerly college, nowuniversity, is featured in the
(15:11):
2007 film the Great Debaters asits own unique history.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
How has that influenced the way you approach
your leadership as the president?
When you walk across thesegrounds, I think most
institutions will exclaim thatthey're sacred and hallowed, and
if you're quiet you can hearthe ancestors in the clouds.
We believe that here.
We know that when those fourgentlemen stood around the
barrel after the emancipation orJuneteenth and trying to figure
out what, for the newly andfree slave, is next, the idea
(15:48):
moved to the Freedmen's AIDSBureau and born in it was this
place.
The audacity why I love thatword is because they decided to
create an educationalinstitution in a place that was
a foothold for the ConfederacyMarshall Harrison County, pound
(16:09):
for pound has more lynchings init, and it was a headquarters
for the Confederate.
So the idea that, just as thisperiod is coming to an end or so
, they thought you want to buildan educational institution for
(16:29):
those who are three fifths of aman, that's audacity, that's old
, and so it is who we are as acollege, as a university, and so
I am doing nothing more thanwhat the other 16 here we were
founded out of necessity.
James Farmer, the founder ofCORE, and Opal Lee, the mother
(16:53):
of Juneteenth, were on thiscampus.
Hemant Swet, who has thefoundational case for Brown v
Board of Education.
He sued the University of Texasand Thurgood Marshall argued
that case.
That is here.
It's expected of me, as thepresident, to be at the tip of
(17:17):
the spear, making sure thatsocial justice and opportunities
are met with the right,measured response, and I
absolutely can't imagine beingin any other place, because my
personal ethos line up with theethos of this institution.
It's on you here and it is apart of the fabric of the
(17:39):
institution and I'm preciselywhere I need to be.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
I'm getting goosebumps, as you just talked
about that.
So I'm at Oberlin College andI'm precisely where I need to be
.
I'm getting goosebumps, as youjust talked about that.
So I'm at Oberlin College andyou know, we talk about the
history of Oberlin College being, you know, having that history
of being the first college inthe nation to open its doors to
women and students of color, andit's, you know, when you just
talked about the history ofWiley, you just talked about the
(18:03):
history of Wiley.
It is exactly why there is somuch pride that anchors,
historically, black colleges anduniversities, and so that's
really, really important.
So let's talk about a differenttype of disruption.
This year, I think highereducation, regardless of the
type of institution one is apart of, has seen a type of
(18:26):
disruption that we've never seenbefore.
I've been working in higher edsince 2000, and the landscape
for colleges and universities,sort of writ large, has been
riddled with disruption all yearlong, from funding shifts,
policy pressures, culturalheadwinds.
What is this season ofdisruption, specifically within
(18:50):
the context of higher education,meant for you and required of
you now?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
It's required a double down on resolve, a double
downing of resolve.
And I've went back and did morehistorical reading than I've
ever done in my presidency and Ihad a moment, moment.
(19:27):
I'll never forget, this seminalmoment, where I was coming
across a sermon that MartinLuther King Jr was giving and he
talked about being maladjustedabout something.
Oftentimes psychosis isassociated with maladjustment,
but he really helped meunderstand to be maladjusted
about a particular thing orthings is where we need to be,
(19:48):
and that shifted my mindset fromfocusing on the fear of the
unknown, or the fog of war as wewould call it in the Marine
Corps, to focusing on what's infront of me.
Right, like, I'm going torespond to what is in front of
me, and I think where we're atnow, one would have to argue if
(20:09):
the shakeup will invariably,some elements of it, be good for
higher education.
So my mindset, first andforemost, I'm always going back
to what happened to my ancestors, and if I'm going to sit around
the barrel and cry about apolicy that doesn't feel good,
(20:32):
then I'm not fit to be,particularly the leader of an
institution that is responsiblefor shaping the souls of the
next wave of leaders, and so Ikeep that very clear.
I'm resolved and measured inmost cases, while I'm always
smiling, there's always a levelof gravity that meets every
(20:55):
moment, and I'm earnestlyinherited from my mother and
father and enhanced by theMarine Corps.
And so, whatever is coming downthe pipe, there's this old
saying those who wish to defeatthe gods first must make them
mad or angry.
One of those.
(21:16):
And the gist is, if you'reconsumed with emotion, your
ability to do what is in frontof you is severely decreased to
do it well.
And so I think all of higher edand America and the globe,
during these trying times, wouldbe well served to be calm and
(21:40):
measured, be well served to becalm and measured.
And in the Marine Corps, we weretaught to focus on what was
said as opposed to how, and inthis instance, the shock and awe
of things are driving us tomove in ways, sometimes
prematurely, sometimes withemotion, but sit back and settle
(22:00):
and let it land and move fromthere.
At the end of the day, we're atan institution of faith.
I'm a man of faith and whileI'm going to be prepared, I'm
leading with faith, and so Iknow that God is telling me that
this too shall pass and we willbe stronger, and so we move,
(22:23):
and we move deliberately andintentionally, with kindness.
That's where it's at for me.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yeah, my president says that a lot right,
distilling the emotion fromthings, kind of bowling that out
and kind of tempering yourselfas you move along.
How are your students feelingin these moments?
What are they asking of you inthese times?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
You know, that's a really good question because we
have this spectrum, right.
We have about 30% of ourstudents are brown and the rest
the other 65 percent, are colorand five or other international
white, and so there's thiswonderful mix of feelings Right
(23:09):
when, when President Trump waselected, a large swath of our
students who are brown wereelated in the parking lot,
banners, going crazy, et cetera,and there was this moment on
our campus where there was joyand pain.
It was a rift for a minute.
(23:31):
It was a tough situationbecause I don't think our
students knew the politicalideologies of each other until
the announcing of who won, andso to watch them work through
that helped me address them inways that was fair and balanced,
(23:52):
neutral but rooted in facts.
And I think what they want fromme is no emotion but facts.
They want leadership withoutemotion.
They want leadership that isslanted to one side or the other
.
I espouse every day, tuesdays atchapel, when the old college
(24:14):
shuts down.
We go worship, but I remindthem that Wiley is a place for
all and always have been Trans,white, black, atheist, agnostic.
It doesn't matter who you are.
You are welcome here and yourticket to admission is to accept
everybody here.
If that's something that isincongruent with your spirit,
(24:36):
this is the place for you, and Ithink they've come to know that
.
This is a place of kindnesswhere we see each other, and
certainly as the home of thegreat debaters.
If you can't have civildiscourse and everybody leave
with all their body parts, thenyou know this isn't what you
signed up for and this is notfor you, and so I think they
(24:58):
want me to be consistent withkindness.
I think they want me to beconsistent with advocating for
the least of us, and I thinkthey want me to be consistent
with kindness.
I think they want me to beconsistent with advocating for
the least of us, and I thinkthey want me consistent to our
institutional ethos.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, that's important.
What do you think most peopleget wrong about HBCUs?
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Do we have enough time?
Yeah, no, I think different wehave enough time.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, no, I think different.
They think different isdeficient.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I think that's what they get wrong from us.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
And because the facts are what they are.
We produce more generals, moredoctors, more lawyers, more
educators, more any everythingyou want to talk about in
professional schools, thananybody else.
And so we've been punching wellabove our weight class since
inception.
The cards were stacked againstus from day one, and yet we have
(25:59):
risen and we continue to rise.
So you know, I typically, outof one of my maladjusted
personalities, I typically won'trespond to those questions
because they're absurd on theirface.
Any objective or subjectiveperson for that matter, can come
to a place and look at why wewere founded, number one, and
(26:24):
second what we've been able todo to understand who we are and
what we're capable of doing.
So I think this misnomer thatthey're different and it's
deficient different is the thingthat irks me the most.
But I think people fail torealize that we have aviation
programs, we have medical,dental, we have the science, the
(26:47):
arts, whatever they have atthose other places, the other
institutions we have at ourinstitutions, really large.
So there is no separation.
There is just a matter ofimbalance as it comes to the way
we're funded and, unfortunatelyfor others, there's laws that,
(27:07):
or legislation or lawsuits thatyou know, confirm that we've
been grossly underfundedintentionally.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Absolutely.
So let's shift gears a littlebit.
But you know you were justtalking about how you know.
The facts don't lie, thenumbers don't lie.
Hbcus have produced the mostprofessionals in all of the
areas, right, graduateprofessional degrees.
And you have been for the past10 years, through the Higher
(27:40):
Education Leadership Foundation,creating pathways for
presidents of HBCUs.
So can we talk a little bitmore about the Higher Education
Leadership Foundation and thepipeline and incubator programs
you've created?
So two strands of that to thoseprograms.
(28:00):
One, there is a presidentialpathway program.
I didn't mean for that to be analliteration.
And then you just recentlylaunched a sort of mid-career
for folks who want to, who areaspiring, who aren't quite yet
ready to be presidents, forfolks who can, who want to be
(28:22):
mid-career right yeah,specifically to develop future
HBCU leaders.
Why was this so important toyou?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
11 years ago I went to a leadership program and I
quickly surmised that I did nothave nor did my president have
the celebrity to pick up a phonecall and say, hey, I've got
this young person who'scommitted, who is trained, who
is highly disciplined, highlyskilled and who could be of
(28:51):
service.
And I've also found that, ifyou didn't come from that quote
unquote pedigree or thataffiliation, that people you
know, we are peculiar people.
I mean that sincerely.
And in this space there arejust tons of gatekeepers, and
I've always been a person who'stried to, you know, bust gates
(29:15):
open.
And so I thought how about wecreate something where we have
like-minded people who arecommitted to the space to come
together?
Never in my wildest dreams withmy partners Melva Wallace,
who's the president of HoustonTillis, alfred Anthony Pinkard,
who was the president atWilberforce, who came as provost
(29:36):
with me and when I left wasappointed president.
And this young fellow by thename of Gregory Dees, who was a
student of mine, who is verytalented with marketing and
communication skills.
He's responsible for our look,our logo and everything else our
website.
Never did we imagine that wewould have a modicum of impact.
(30:00):
We originally started our firstinstitute at Miles College,
president George French allowedus to come on his campus, kept
it small.
We had one person pay to come,one person and everybody.
At the end at our pinningceremonies we really didn't know
what to think.
We didn't know what to think,turns out, our next institute.
(30:23):
We had about 50 applicationsand so we were able to see the
class with people that paid all20 of them.
It grew from there, but what wekept noticing, our focal point
has never been about thepresidency.
It's about really strengtheningthe pipeline, and I thought
that leaders ascend to thepresidency.
(30:45):
Presidents who want to bepresidents are performative and
they don't last in this spacebecause that performative desire
to be a president, that's notit.
When you find people who areboth specialists and generalists
, they stick, they're preparedand they're doing the work for
(31:06):
for a good reason.
So, but what we kept findingwas we were getting applications
for everybody mid-levelmanagers, et cetera and we we
couldn't service that.
And so we're now just at thispoint where we had to sit and
really think about our nextiteration and we thought we
wanted to do more and if we'rereally going to address the
(31:27):
entire pipeline, we can't waituntil they become vice
presidents, let's find themwhere they are.
And so we've opened up and ourfirst institute will be in
December.
Five months of it will bevirtual and it'll culminate with
a four-day institute.
We've got about 45 folksalready signed up and so we
(31:50):
started and it came organically,and that's what we love about
it.
We've self-funded.
We do this work at nighttime.
We build health in the garage.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
You know, we built health in the garage and I can
tell you this, if it weren't forthe Michael Sorrells, who's an
alum of Oakland, duvon Wormack,rosalind Clark artists you know,
roderick Smothers, all thesepeople who have come, hakeem
(32:22):
Lucas, a Zachary Faison.
If it weren't for these people,who are rooted in strengthening
the pipeline, help would nothave the type of resonance that
it has, and we have been able todo more than just the
leadership training.
We've been able to do someother pretty cool things, and
(32:44):
it's because the space has agroup of leaders, a cadre of
them, that are committed toleaving the place better than we
found it, but also pulling onthe rear bus, and that the gate
opens so that there's no moregatekeeping at the levels that
we experienced while we got here.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
I love that.
Now, if that's not disruption,I don't know what is, because
you already know this.
I already know this the averagecollege president not
necessarily HBCUs, of courseaverage college president is
60-year-old white male.
Average college president is 60year old, white male and um
(33:27):
through these programs.
So this leadership training andleadership development programs
, you have created, among otherleaders, 12 presidents, three
interim presidents right andcorrect me if I rock.
Those numbers need to be updatedthat's up to 16 presidents, and
three entrants in 10 years yeahyeah, self-funded, in the
(33:49):
garage at nighttime and we knowyou work in more than 40 hours a
week.
Yeah, we already know is it.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Is it labor, though?
Is it if it's purpose andpassion, if it's driven by
Christ?
Is it labor?
That's right.
I have not worked since I leftthe Marine Corps.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
I love that Right.
It's not work if you're reallydoing what you love, right.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Absolutely.
I bought this book last week.
I just read the first couple ofchapters.
I want to kind of see how itlands with you.
So Beverly Danielle Tatum, who,former president of Spelman,
just published Peril and PromiseCollege Leadership in Turbulent
Times, president and all thechallenges that today's
(34:39):
university presidents faceextraordinary pressure.
15, 20 years ago I thoughtthat's a job that I want.
I don't think so anymore.
I'll take my day job.
I'm cool here Political attacks, financial constraints, social
unrest, challenges arounddiversity, equity and inclusion.
(34:59):
She argues that bold,courageous leadership is needed
now more than ever.
So, as someone who has walkedthe path to becoming a college
president and, of course, who'sactively shaping tomorrow's
leaders, what does it take today?
What do the next generationneed of HBCU presidents need
(35:21):
most?
What qualities are needed forthis next generation of leaders
who are coming up?
Speaker 2 (35:26):
So I talked about just a few minutes ago this,
this, this ideal that leaderswho ascend to the presidency,
the seat of the presidency, arebest equipped to stay.
That went back as far back to2006 or 7, when Walter Kimbrough
(35:51):
, Priscilla Slade and MichaelSorrell were appointed.
Good looking black people,fairly young.
The collision with social mediayou now have a picture of what
it looks like to be a presidentat an HBCU and those people made
(36:12):
it look good and easy and fun.
And I think as a result of that,you had a bunch of people who
only wanted to be a president.
That's all you hear everywhereyou go.
Every time we have theleadership I want to be a
president.
I always tell people what youwant to do is be a leader.
That has two skills that areextremely invaluable.
(36:34):
You're a specialist, meaningyou came up through academic
affairs.
You know the profession orinstitutional advancement, like
I did.
You know the profession orinstitutional advancement, like
I did, and then you also need tobe a generalist.
You need to be able to sitaround the table and know enough
to be more than dangerous withevery salient area in the
(36:56):
academic apparatus.
Second, if you don't know whatleadership is, what leadership
really is, there's going to be aproblem, because leadership
requires one of those thingsthat is often not really talked
about and that's selectiveamnesia and hearing.
(37:17):
You don't want to heareverything.
You don't need to heareverything.
You don't need to heareverything.
It does not do you any good tobe on social media or listen to
what the alums say, or doingthis or that.
If you're consumed by that,then that tells me that ego is
alive and you're going to fall.
Presidents the successful onesare, I think, by and large
(37:41):
without ego, and the work isreally about the work Right, and
so, I think, for the newleaders, find your gaps.
Where are you weak at?
Right, you want to have aconversation for a vacancy.
You don't want to have aninterview for a position, right,
(38:03):
and so if you've been laboringin the vineyard and you've been
working and you've been pickingup skills, stretch assignments,
you've been on SACS teamsinternally, you've spent time
trying to understand what itreally means to have a zero base
, a zero balance but zero basebudget.
Or you understand what thetuition difference is, the net
(38:28):
tuition from your tuition.
I think, the way in which thetuition model works, all of them
are different, the states aredifferent, the public's are
different, the private's.
But understanding the nuances,understanding that student
affairs is more than justthrowing parties and homecoming,
understanding that one areathat will absolutely obliterate
(38:52):
you, understanding thatathletics will bankrupt you,
that the ban can create allkinds of problems, you have to
have a holistic view, and so Ioften share that.
As a vice president, you have acorner office downtown and it's
beautiful and you're almostlinear and myopic in your vision
(39:15):
and your sight.
The president has a panoramicview.
If you can find yourself withan understanding that is
analogous to a panoramic viewabout the salient areas and you
know how to lead, I think you'remuch more inclined to have a
conversation about a vacancythan having an interview about a
(39:38):
position that you want to feel.
I think that our future isbright because I get to see the
next wave and there are somebrothers and sisters that are
ready to assume the mantle andthey're right now perfecting
their crafts and they're beingserious.
They're scholars, they'repractitioners and administrators
(40:00):
all wrapped in one, and I thinkthe future is bright.
I don't share the sentiment withmost people and I don't think
this job is hard.
I don't think that there isperil.
There are some challenges andcertainly President Tatum has a
prism that I don't have, and Ithink that what she is arguing
(40:22):
from the excerpts is spot on.
However, I don't find anychallenges.
I see opportunities and I'm notbeing, you know, a person
playing on semantics.
I've just committed myself tothis work and I'm serious about
filling my voids and I love thiswork and so I'm always
(40:43):
committed to it, much to thechagrin of my wife and my family
.
I love what I'm doing and so Ido work.
I'm about this life, absolutelylove it.
So, yes, we need a differentkind of leader right now, with a
different skill set.
But I think coming up in therear is the cavalry, and I think
(41:06):
there are, you know, somequalified, highly skilled,
disciplined, competent leaders,both male and female, waiting to
take the battle.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
I'm excited about that.
Now I've only read the firstcouple chapters, so maybe by the
time we get to the end there'salignment between what you're
saying and what she's saying, bythe way, we need you to write
that book, right?
Speaker 2 (41:31):
If God sees fit, after I've retired long, because
when I leave I'm exiting stageleft.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
You don't need to wait that long.
That's too long of a wait,President Elton.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
I have some aspirations and some desires
here that require all of myattention, and writing is not
one of them right, that ain't itOkay.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
All right, well, as we wrap things up, we typically
end with three rapid firequestions, if that's okay with
you.
Sure, first thing somethingthat keeps you up at night.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Oh, making way out of no way.
Yeah, how do I get the best?
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah , I thought you was gonna say
Waffle House.
I heard you on another podcastsaying that you love.
Waffle House smothered coveredin listen.
I thought you was gonna saythat.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
No, that's all.
Yeah, no, that's yeah.
And I meant deficient.
In my mind I went to deficient.
So I should have beenoptimistic and went with my
first thought, but I thoughtthat's mother's covenant.
Yep Waffle House is the mostwonderful, favorite, best
(42:42):
amazing restaurant in America,in the world.
It's lovely, it's lovely yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
I've never been to Waffle House during the day.
Well, anyway, something thathas made you smile big this week
.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
My family all the time.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Man.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
My family, every all of them my kids, my wife, my
brothers, my sisters.
My second to the youngestsister is being ordained at my
sister her husband's church thisweekend.
So I'm on, you know I'm oncloud nine.
So my family, my family, makesme smile all the time and I have
pictures of them all throughoutmy office, my whole family.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
I love that.
Nothing like family.
And lastly, a little bit deeper.
So 10 years from now, when welook back at this moment for
HBCUs and higher education, whatkind of disruption do you hope
for your leadership and Wiley'sexample will represent?
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Multiplication, and Wiley's example will represent
Multiplication.
Maxwell talks about the supremein leadership is to multiply
that effective leader, thatdisruptor.
If I'm able to help people findtheir disruption on a large
scale and we have a litany offearless, bold people committed
(44:05):
to this work that would make myheart smile.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
President, Herman Felton reminds us that
disruption isn't just aboutchange.
It's about resolve, vision andpreparing the next generation to
lead.
Thank you so much for joiningus on the North Star.
Stay tuned for moreconversations with leaders who
are reshaping what's possible.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
I'll tell you.
Welcome to the North Star, a space for candid
conversations on leadership,equity and social justice.
This season, we're exploringdisruption how bold leaders are
challenging norms and shapingthe future.
Welcome to Season 2.
Today, I have the distinctpleasure of being joined by Dr
(00:20):
Herman Felton, the 17thpresident of Wiley University.
A disruptor in higher education, who has redefined what it
means to lead an HBCU in thismoment.
From building innovativeleadership incubators to
navigating today's challengesfor historically black colleges
and universities, his careeroffers powerful lessons in
(00:43):
resilience, vision andtransformation.
Welcome, dr Felton.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Thank you, dr Wilder, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
You know, before we get started, about your
leadership journey and what itmeans to lead Wiley University
let's take it all the way back,if you don't mind Of course so
before we get started, I sharedhow I spent 12 years living in
Jacksonville, Florida, which isyour hometown.
Would you mind sharing with uswhat it was like growing up in?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Jacksonville, duval County was.
Duval, as they say right, it wasa great experience.
You know it was a greatexperience.
You know I grew up in maybe afive mile radius and so it
wasn't until I got into theMarine Corps did I really
understand just how bigJacksonville was.
(01:35):
I'm product of scarcity.
I used to say poverty, but Iwent to Africa.
I now understand that we justhad meager resources.
We were not in poverty.
So I grew up.
My mother raised six of us.
We grew up in the inner cityprojects and went through public
(01:55):
school, had a good time doingall the things that kids who are
products of that environment dogot in a little bit of trouble,
play sports, but fairly.
You know, unremarkablechildhood experience.
By all accounts, I had no ideathat I was dyslexic, so I don't
(02:17):
know if that's an indictment onyou know, the school system or
the zip code that I was in,whether or not we had looking
back on it now.
We had great teachers, but Idon't know that they had the
resources to really grapple withkids coming from my background,
and so I pushed through highschool, didn't graduate.
(02:40):
By the time I got to the 12thgrade I was in a little trouble,
or what would be the 12th grade?
I repeated the 11th and was,you know, strongly encouraged to
go into the Marine Corps bysomeone in law enforcement and
someone with a robe on.
So I went into the Marine Corpsand enjoyed life after.
(03:02):
But growing up I had all thelittle league sports, the Pop
Warner, football, we, we did allthe mischievous things and, of
course, navigating through the80s.
You know the crack pandemic andepidemic.
It hit us hard but we navigatedthrough those things and I
(03:27):
think I had.
I'm grateful for my childhoodbut it was pretty cool growing
up in Jacksonville.
They were anti growth back inthe early 80s and late 80s and
early 90s, so it wasn't what itis today but it was a pretty
cool space to grow up in.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Okay, all right, so fast forward.
Growing up in Jacksonville, Irecall just knowing a little bit
about your background you spentsome time in the Marine Corps
and then you end up going to andattending college as a
non-traditional student at theoldest historically-backed
college in the state of FloridaEdward Waters, now University
(04:07):
right and then you end up in lawschool at the University of
Florida.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
How did you get?
Speaker 1 (04:12):
from Edward Waters to UF Law.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Dear old Edward Waters.
I was working at the bulk mailprocessing center for the US
Postal Service, which was mydream job, and I realized that
there was something more.
So I went to enroll into FCJ atthe time, but it's called
(04:36):
Florida State and CommunityState College now, and there was
a recruiter from Everett Watersthere and asked if I'd ever
thought about going to EdwardWaters.
Had no idea what it was.
I said look, I only have a GED,so if I can get in I'd be happy
to come.
I went with him and the restwas history.
(04:56):
That how I got to Florida wasdirectly attributable to one the
culture and the community.
But granularly I was the SGApresident and at the time my
(05:17):
president, dr Jimmy R Jenkins Sr.
We were in a board meeting.
It was my first as a studenttrustee and I sat and watched
the board, you know, really makea decision, or try to make a
decision, about increasing theadmission standards and getting
rid of the open door policy, andI had no idea how much that two
(05:37):
hour session would change thetrajectory of my life.
One after another, each boardmember went around the table
arguing to do this, to increasethe standards, to get a
different type of student, etcetera, et cetera.
And if I'd ever seen assaultwith a deadly weapon verbal
(06:02):
being the weapon, the mouth, thetongue being the weapon
occurred, this was my first timewatching a powerful orator and
a persuasive person.
But he tied the mission why wewere ever founded, the mission
of Edward Waters, where we aretoday and where we're going.
(06:23):
It shifted the movement and Ithought that's what I want to do
.
I got into college because itwas open door admissions, but it
was something about advocatingfor the least of us which I
couldn't articulate then.
But it was that and it led meto a dinner with him to tell him
, like I'd like to do what youdo when I grow up.
(06:45):
And he told me I needed to geta terminal degree and I couldn't
determine what area of focus.
So we went back and forth aboutthat and he said, well, we'll
go get a law degree.
And that's how it happened Wentout to the University of
Florida and got that degree fromthere, but it was only for a
(07:09):
meal ticket to be qualified tosatisfy the doctoral degree, to
be a college friend.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
But even in that story right.
So we're thinking about.
What we're really interested inhearing over the course of this
season is about disruption, andeven in that story I heard
disruption right when you thinkabout leadership, particularly
college presidencies right.
It's all about being a disruptorand a change agent, right?
(07:41):
So you've often been describedas a disruptor throughout your
career.
How do you see that wordapplying beyond that moment
sitting in the board of trusteeswhen you decided okay, I don't
know how I'm going to get there,but I need to become a college
president?
Beyond that moment, how else doyou see that word applying to
the rest of your career?
Speaker 2 (08:02):
You know, it wasn't until two years ago.
Three years ago, my sister, myyoungest sister, made all of us
do the Ancestrycom, and that ledto African Ancestrycom.
And that led to a genealogistand we traced our origin, and I
(08:23):
am Ashanti, the Akan people ofwhat is modern day, accra, ghana
.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
That the Ashanti war, the Akan warrior is fearless.
The descriptors fit what I amtoday and I don't know if it is
so much a disruptor.
I think it's much more about.
I think disruptor is usedbecause it seems to be uncommon,
(08:55):
but I think it's resolve.
It's resolve with faith right,like, I think, the relationship
that I have with God now.
My mom always made us go tochurch and, you know, being the
maladjusted child in the familyout of the bunch, I didn't care
too much for church, but it iseverything for me now, and after
(09:18):
going to the Marine Corps, Istarted to develop a very strong
personal faith, and so myconversations with God are very
clear and I'm resolved when Ileave those.
And so, watching that momentand looking at what I did to
(09:40):
fight through being dyslexic toeven navigate high school and
memorizing everything that Icould possibly do to save myself
from embarrassment or the fearof my secret being let out, that
was disruption for me, that wasresolve.
It was I need to do this.
(10:00):
So I've been more in tune withthoughts that I think I have are
really implanted visions fromGod, and if it is with me, I'm
clear that it is from him, andso I'm resolved about doing my
father's business.
So it was so impactful to havesomebody advocate for you.
(10:22):
And you know, when I went toEdward Waters I was 28 years old
and that was my first encounterwith President Jenkins was the
first time a black man said tome you can do whatever you want.
He said that in a bridgeprogram and that was something
that was.
I had no idea that I wasmissing, but as soon as I heard
(10:47):
it it resonated and it filled avoid.
But it also created a yearningfor more affirmation from a male
, a black male.
And so I set out to you know,really please him.
(11:07):
I set out to you know, reallyplease him.
But I think that moment isintertwined with my origin story
, who I am and where I'm from,and my mother diminutive stature
, you know, 4'11" was the mostfierce resolve go-getter that
I've ever met.
So I think in earnest, it's allbeen inside and what I
inherently believe there's aspark waiting to be tapped for
(11:30):
implosion or explosion in all ofus and I think that moment
culminated a series of eventsthat put me on the trajectory to
find where I think great impactfor a great portion of my life
will be made, and that's it.
Higher education at a blackcollege.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
What I'm hearing is that you've been in training for
this role for a really longtime, right, yeah, so you've
been at Wiley since 2017, andthis is not your first
presidency at an HBCU, and yourpath into the presidency wasn't
necessarily a traditional one.
(12:12):
How has that path shaped yourperspective on leadership in
higher education?
Speaker 2 (12:18):
So it's afforded me this opportunity to be in spaces
that, had I not went to college, I wouldn't be in.
No knock to the talented 10th,but oftentimes there's not
enough room for the 90percentile of the populace, and
(12:40):
that thought is oftentimescentered around the 10%, and I'm
the 90%.
That is who I am, that isfundamentally who I am, and so
the idea of opening the apertureof the 10% so that as many of
the 90 percentile folk can comethrough is what motivates me.
(13:04):
90 percentile vote can comethrough is what motivates me.
I absolutely love to be inspaces where people
automatically assume I'm twoparent, upper crest, you know,
suburban child because of myeducational attainments, and I
think it'd be, you know furtherfor the first generation on both
sides to go to college andcertainly to achieve this
(13:28):
profession.
So what it does for me is fightharder for hermits, because
there are goo gobs of them outthere, right.
And so the idea to be resolved,about filling a void is what?
What drives me daily in mypersonal and professional life.
(13:49):
Professionally, knowing that weare a peculiar people all
humans are.
But I think about thechallenges and the obstacles
that we've overcome, and I'mvery clear that being the
(14:09):
progeny of enslaved meanssomething already the fact that
my ancestors actually survivedthe atrocities means that,
through my blood and the verybeing of me as a person who is
destined for somethingremarkable and being really a
(14:30):
battering ram to open up thatdoor for others, for all, is
something that I take pride in,and so I think that resolve to
you know, open up the apertureso everybody can run come get in
, is what really really drivesthe edge.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
So that's actually a really great setup for.
My next question is sort ofyour approach to being the
president at Wiley, and I knowthat your approach is really one
that is sort of rooted in beingbold and audacious right.
And we know that for some folkswho may not know, and we know
that for some folks who may notknow, you know Wiley University.
Wiley, formerly college, nowuniversity, is featured in the
(15:11):
2007 film the Great Debaters asits own unique history.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
How has that influenced the way you approach
your leadership as the president?
When you walk across thesegrounds, I think most
institutions will exclaim thatthey're sacred and hallowed, and
if you're quiet you can hearthe ancestors in the clouds.
We believe that here.
We know that when those fourgentlemen stood around the
barrel after the emancipation orJuneteenth and trying to figure
out what, for the newly andfree slave, is next, the idea
(15:48):
moved to the Freedmen's AIDSBureau and born in it was this
place.
The audacity why I love thatword is because they decided to
create an educationalinstitution in a place that was
a foothold for the ConfederacyMarshall Harrison County, pound
(16:09):
for pound has more lynchings init, and it was a headquarters
for the Confederate.
So the idea that, just as thisperiod is coming to an end or so
, they thought you want to buildan educational institution for
(16:29):
those who are three fifths of aman, that's audacity, that's old
, and so it is who we are as acollege, as a university, and so
I am doing nothing more thanwhat the other 16 here we were
founded out of necessity.
James Farmer, the founder ofCORE, and Opal Lee, the mother
(16:53):
of Juneteenth, were on thiscampus.
Hemant Swet, who has thefoundational case for Brown v
Board of Education.
He sued the University of Texasand Thurgood Marshall argued
that case.
That is here.
It's expected of me, as thepresident, to be at the tip of
(17:17):
the spear, making sure thatsocial justice and opportunities
are met with the right,measured response, and I
absolutely can't imagine beingin any other place, because my
personal ethos line up with theethos of this institution.
It's on you here and it is apart of the fabric of the
(17:39):
institution and I'm preciselywhere I need to be.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
I'm getting goosebumps, as you just talked
about that.
So I'm at Oberlin College andI'm precisely where I need to be
.
I'm getting goosebumps, as youjust talked about that.
So I'm at Oberlin College andyou know, we talk about the
history of Oberlin College being, you know, having that history
of being the first college inthe nation to open its doors to
women and students of color, andit's, you know, when you just
talked about the history ofWiley, you just talked about the
(18:03):
history of Wiley.
It is exactly why there is somuch pride that anchors,
historically, black colleges anduniversities, and so that's
really, really important.
So let's talk about a differenttype of disruption.
This year, I think highereducation, regardless of the
type of institution one is apart of, has seen a type of
(18:26):
disruption that we've never seenbefore.
I've been working in higher edsince 2000, and the landscape
for colleges and universities,sort of writ large, has been
riddled with disruption all yearlong, from funding shifts,
policy pressures, culturalheadwinds.
What is this season ofdisruption, specifically within
(18:50):
the context of higher education,meant for you and required of
you now?
Speaker 2 (18:57):
It's required a double down on resolve, a double
downing of resolve.
And I've went back and did morehistorical reading than I've
ever done in my presidency and Ihad a moment, moment.
(19:27):
I'll never forget, this seminalmoment, where I was coming
across a sermon that MartinLuther King Jr was giving and he
talked about being maladjustedabout something.
Oftentimes psychosis isassociated with maladjustment,
but he really helped meunderstand to be maladjusted
about a particular thing orthings is where we need to be,
(19:48):
and that shifted my mindset fromfocusing on the fear of the
unknown, or the fog of war as wewould call it in the Marine
Corps, to focusing on what's infront of me.
Right, like, I'm going torespond to what is in front of
me, and I think where we're atnow, one would have to argue if
(20:09):
the shakeup will invariably,some elements of it, be good for
higher education.
So my mindset, first andforemost, I'm always going back
to what happened to my ancestors, and if I'm going to sit around
the barrel and cry about apolicy that doesn't feel good,
(20:32):
then I'm not fit to be,particularly the leader of an
institution that is responsiblefor shaping the souls of the
next wave of leaders, and so Ikeep that very clear.
I'm resolved and measured inmost cases, while I'm always
smiling, there's always a levelof gravity that meets every
(20:55):
moment, and I'm earnestlyinherited from my mother and
father and enhanced by theMarine Corps.
And so, whatever is coming downthe pipe, there's this old
saying those who wish to defeatthe gods first must make them
mad or angry.
One of those.
(21:16):
And the gist is, if you'reconsumed with emotion, your
ability to do what is in frontof you is severely decreased to
do it well.
And so I think all of higher edand America and the globe,
during these trying times, wouldbe well served to be calm and
(21:40):
measured, be well served to becalm and measured.
And in the Marine Corps, we weretaught to focus on what was
said as opposed to how, and inthis instance, the shock and awe
of things are driving us tomove in ways, sometimes
prematurely, sometimes withemotion, but sit back and settle
(22:00):
and let it land and move fromthere.
At the end of the day, we're atan institution of faith.
I'm a man of faith and whileI'm going to be prepared, I'm
leading with faith, and so Iknow that God is telling me that
this too shall pass and we willbe stronger, and so we move,
(22:23):
and we move deliberately andintentionally, with kindness.
That's where it's at for me.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yeah, my president says that a lot right,
distilling the emotion fromthings, kind of bowling that out
and kind of tempering yourselfas you move along.
How are your students feelingin these moments?
What are they asking of you inthese times?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
You know, that's a really good question because we
have this spectrum, right.
We have about 30% of ourstudents are brown and the rest
the other 65 percent, are colorand five or other international
white, and so there's thiswonderful mix of feelings Right
(23:09):
when, when President Trump waselected, a large swath of our
students who are brown wereelated in the parking lot,
banners, going crazy, et cetera,and there was this moment on
our campus where there was joyand pain.
It was a rift for a minute.
(23:31):
It was a tough situationbecause I don't think our
students knew the politicalideologies of each other until
the announcing of who won, andso to watch them work through
that helped me address them inways that was fair and balanced,
(23:52):
neutral but rooted in facts.
And I think what they want fromme is no emotion but facts.
They want leadership withoutemotion.
They want leadership that isslanted to one side or the other
.
I espouse every day, tuesdays atchapel, when the old college
(24:14):
shuts down.
We go worship, but I remindthem that Wiley is a place for
all and always have been Trans,white, black, atheist, agnostic.
It doesn't matter who you are.
You are welcome here and yourticket to admission is to accept
everybody here.
If that's something that isincongruent with your spirit,
(24:36):
this is the place for you, and Ithink they've come to know that
.
This is a place of kindnesswhere we see each other, and
certainly as the home of thegreat debaters.
If you can't have civildiscourse and everybody leave
with all their body parts, thenyou know this isn't what you
signed up for and this is notfor you, and so I think they
(24:58):
want me to be consistent withkindness.
I think they want me to beconsistent with advocating for
the least of us, and I thinkthey want me to be consistent
with kindness.
I think they want me to beconsistent with advocating for
the least of us, and I thinkthey want me consistent to our
institutional ethos.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, that's important.
What do you think most peopleget wrong about HBCUs?
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Oh, my God.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
Do we have enough time?
Yeah, no, I think different wehave enough time.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, no, I think different.
They think different isdeficient.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I think that's what they get wrong from us.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
And because the facts are what they are.
We produce more generals, moredoctors, more lawyers, more
educators, more any everythingyou want to talk about in
professional schools, thananybody else.
And so we've been punching wellabove our weight class since
inception.
The cards were stacked againstus from day one, and yet we have
(25:59):
risen and we continue to rise.
So you know, I typically, outof one of my maladjusted
personalities, I typically won'trespond to those questions
because they're absurd on theirface.
Any objective or subjectiveperson for that matter, can come
to a place and look at why wewere founded, number one, and
(26:24):
second what we've been able todo to understand who we are and
what we're capable of doing.
So I think this misnomer thatthey're different and it's
deficient different is the thingthat irks me the most.
But I think people fail torealize that we have aviation
programs, we have medical,dental, we have the science, the
(26:47):
arts, whatever they have atthose other places, the other
institutions we have at ourinstitutions, really large.
So there is no separation.
There is just a matter ofimbalance as it comes to the way
we're funded and, unfortunatelyfor others, there's laws that,
(27:07):
or legislation or lawsuits thatyou know, confirm that we've
been grossly underfundedintentionally.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Absolutely.
So let's shift gears a littlebit.
But you know you were justtalking about how you know.
The facts don't lie, thenumbers don't lie.
Hbcus have produced the mostprofessionals in all of the
areas, right, graduateprofessional degrees.
And you have been for the past10 years, through the Higher
(27:40):
Education Leadership Foundation,creating pathways for
presidents of HBCUs.
So can we talk a little bitmore about the Higher Education
Leadership Foundation and thepipeline and incubator programs
you've created?
So two strands of that to thoseprograms.
(28:00):
One, there is a presidentialpathway program.
I didn't mean for that to be analliteration.
And then you just recentlylaunched a sort of mid-career
for folks who want to, who areaspiring, who aren't quite yet
ready to be presidents, forfolks who can, who want to be
(28:22):
mid-career right yeah,specifically to develop future
HBCU leaders.
Why was this so important toyou?
Speaker 2 (28:31):
11 years ago I went to a leadership program and I
quickly surmised that I did nothave nor did my president have
the celebrity to pick up a phonecall and say, hey, I've got
this young person who'scommitted, who is trained, who
is highly disciplined, highlyskilled and who could be of
(28:51):
service.
And I've also found that, ifyou didn't come from that quote
unquote pedigree or thataffiliation, that people you
know, we are peculiar people.
I mean that sincerely.
And in this space there arejust tons of gatekeepers, and
I've always been a person who'stried to, you know, bust gates
(29:15):
open.
And so I thought how about wecreate something where we have
like-minded people who arecommitted to the space to come
together?
Never in my wildest dreams withmy partners Melva Wallace,
who's the president of HoustonTillis, alfred Anthony Pinkard,
who was the president atWilberforce, who came as provost
(29:36):
with me and when I left wasappointed president.
And this young fellow by thename of Gregory Dees, who was a
student of mine, who is verytalented with marketing and
communication skills.
He's responsible for our look,our logo and everything else our
website.
Never did we imagine that wewould have a modicum of impact.
(30:00):
We originally started our firstinstitute at Miles College,
president George French allowedus to come on his campus, kept
it small.
We had one person pay to come,one person and everybody.
At the end at our pinningceremonies we really didn't know
what to think.
We didn't know what to think,turns out, our next institute.
(30:23):
We had about 50 applicationsand so we were able to see the
class with people that paid all20 of them.
It grew from there, but what wekept noticing, our focal point
has never been about thepresidency.
It's about really strengtheningthe pipeline, and I thought
that leaders ascend to thepresidency.
(30:45):
Presidents who want to bepresidents are performative and
they don't last in this spacebecause that performative desire
to be a president, that's notit.
When you find people who areboth specialists and generalists
, they stick, they're preparedand they're doing the work for
(31:06):
for a good reason.
So, but what we kept findingwas we were getting applications
for everybody mid-levelmanagers, et cetera and we we
couldn't service that.
And so we're now just at thispoint where we had to sit and
really think about our nextiteration and we thought we
wanted to do more and if we'rereally going to address the
(31:27):
entire pipeline, we can't waituntil they become vice
presidents, let's find themwhere they are.
And so we've opened up and ourfirst institute will be in
December.
Five months of it will bevirtual and it'll culminate with
a four-day institute.
We've got about 45 folksalready signed up and so we
(31:50):
started and it came organically,and that's what we love about
it.
We've self-funded.
We do this work at nighttime.
We build health in the garage.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
You know, we built health in the garage and I can
tell you this, if it weren't forthe Michael Sorrells, who's an
alum of Oakland, duvon Wormack,rosalind Clark artists you know,
roderick Smothers, all thesepeople who have come, hakeem
(32:22):
Lucas, a Zachary Faison.
If it weren't for these people,who are rooted in strengthening
the pipeline, help would nothave the type of resonance that
it has, and we have been able todo more than just the
leadership training.
We've been able to do someother pretty cool things, and
(32:44):
it's because the space has agroup of leaders, a cadre of
them, that are committed toleaving the place better than we
found it, but also pulling onthe rear bus, and that the gate
opens so that there's no moregatekeeping at the levels that
we experienced while we got here.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
I love that.
Now, if that's not disruption,I don't know what is, because
you already know this.
I already know this the averagecollege president not
necessarily HBCUs, of courseaverage college president is
60-year-old white male.
Average college president is 60year old, white male and um
(33:27):
through these programs.
So this leadership training andleadership development programs
, you have created, among otherleaders, 12 presidents, three
interim presidents right andcorrect me if I rock.
Those numbers need to be updatedthat's up to 16 presidents, and
three entrants in 10 years yeahyeah, self-funded, in the
(33:49):
garage at nighttime and we knowyou work in more than 40 hours a
week.
Yeah, we already know is it.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Is it labor, though?
Is it if it's purpose andpassion, if it's driven by
Christ?
Is it labor?
That's right.
I have not worked since I leftthe Marine Corps.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
I love that Right.
It's not work if you're reallydoing what you love, right.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Absolutely.
I bought this book last week.
I just read the first couple ofchapters.
I want to kind of see how itlands with you.
So Beverly Danielle Tatum, who,former president of Spelman,
just published Peril and PromiseCollege Leadership in Turbulent
Times, president and all thechallenges that today's
(34:39):
university presidents faceextraordinary pressure.
15, 20 years ago I thoughtthat's a job that I want.
I don't think so anymore.
I'll take my day job.
I'm cool here Political attacks, financial constraints, social
unrest, challenges arounddiversity, equity and inclusion.
(34:59):
She argues that bold,courageous leadership is needed
now more than ever.
So, as someone who has walkedthe path to becoming a college
president and, of course, who'sactively shaping tomorrow's
leaders, what does it take today?
What do the next generationneed of HBCU presidents need
(35:21):
most?
What qualities are needed forthis next generation of leaders
who are coming up?
Speaker 2 (35:26):
So I talked about just a few minutes ago this,
this, this ideal that leaderswho ascend to the presidency,
the seat of the presidency, arebest equipped to stay.
That went back as far back to2006 or 7, when Walter Kimbrough
(35:51):
, Priscilla Slade and MichaelSorrell were appointed.
Good looking black people,fairly young.
The collision with social mediayou now have a picture of what
it looks like to be a presidentat an HBCU and those people made
(36:12):
it look good and easy and fun.
And I think as a result of that,you had a bunch of people who
only wanted to be a president.
That's all you hear everywhereyou go.
Every time we have theleadership I want to be a
president.
I always tell people what youwant to do is be a leader.
That has two skills that areextremely invaluable.
(36:34):
You're a specialist, meaningyou came up through academic
affairs.
You know the profession orinstitutional advancement, like
I did.
You know the profession orinstitutional advancement, like
I did, and then you also need tobe a generalist.
You need to be able to sitaround the table and know enough
to be more than dangerous withevery salient area in the
(36:56):
academic apparatus.
Second, if you don't know whatleadership is, what leadership
really is, there's going to be aproblem, because leadership
requires one of those thingsthat is often not really talked
about and that's selectiveamnesia and hearing.
(37:17):
You don't want to heareverything.
You don't need to heareverything.
You don't need to heareverything.
It does not do you any good tobe on social media or listen to
what the alums say, or doingthis or that.
If you're consumed by that,then that tells me that ego is
alive and you're going to fall.
Presidents the successful onesare, I think, by and large
(37:41):
without ego, and the work isreally about the work Right, and
so, I think, for the newleaders, find your gaps.
Where are you weak at?
Right, you want to have aconversation for a vacancy.
You don't want to have aninterview for a position, right,
(38:03):
and so if you've been laboringin the vineyard and you've been
working and you've been pickingup skills, stretch assignments,
you've been on SACS teamsinternally, you've spent time
trying to understand what itreally means to have a zero base
, a zero balance but zero basebudget.
Or you understand what thetuition difference is, the net
(38:28):
tuition from your tuition.
I think, the way in which thetuition model works, all of them
are different, the states aredifferent, the public's are
different, the private's.
But understanding the nuances,understanding that student
affairs is more than justthrowing parties and homecoming,
understanding that one areathat will absolutely obliterate
(38:52):
you, understanding thatathletics will bankrupt you,
that the ban can create allkinds of problems, you have to
have a holistic view, and so Ioften share that.
As a vice president, you have acorner office downtown and it's
beautiful and you're almostlinear and myopic in your vision
(39:15):
and your sight.
The president has a panoramicview.
If you can find yourself withan understanding that is
analogous to a panoramic viewabout the salient areas and you
know how to lead, I think you'remuch more inclined to have a
conversation about a vacancythan having an interview about a
(39:38):
position that you want to feel.
I think that our future isbright because I get to see the
next wave and there are somebrothers and sisters that are
ready to assume the mantle andthey're right now perfecting
their crafts and they're beingserious.
They're scholars, they'repractitioners and administrators
(40:00):
all wrapped in one, and I thinkthe future is bright.
I don't share the sentiment withmost people and I don't think
this job is hard.
I don't think that there isperil.
There are some challenges andcertainly President Tatum has a
prism that I don't have, and Ithink that what she is arguing
(40:22):
from the excerpts is spot on.
However, I don't find anychallenges.
I see opportunities and I'm notbeing, you know, a person
playing on semantics.
I've just committed myself tothis work and I'm serious about
filling my voids and I love thiswork and so I'm always
(40:43):
committed to it, much to thechagrin of my wife and my family
.
I love what I'm doing and so Ido work.
I'm about this life, absolutelylove it.
So, yes, we need a differentkind of leader right now, with a
different skill set.
But I think coming up in therear is the cavalry, and I think
(41:06):
there are, you know, somequalified, highly skilled,
disciplined, competent leaders,both male and female, waiting to
take the battle.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
I'm excited about that.
Now I've only read the firstcouple chapters, so maybe by the
time we get to the end there'salignment between what you're
saying and what she's saying, bythe way, we need you to write
that book, right?
Speaker 2 (41:31):
If God sees fit, after I've retired long, because
when I leave I'm exiting stageleft.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
You don't need to wait that long.
That's too long of a wait,President Elton.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
I have some aspirations and some desires
here that require all of myattention, and writing is not
one of them right, that ain't itOkay.
Speaker 1 (41:55):
All right, well, as we wrap things up, we typically
end with three rapid firequestions, if that's okay with
you.
Sure, first thing somethingthat keeps you up at night.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Oh, making way out of no way.
Yeah, how do I get the best?
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah , I thought you was gonna say
Waffle House.
I heard you on another podcastsaying that you love.
Waffle House smothered coveredin listen.
I thought you was gonna saythat.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
No, that's all.
Yeah, no, that's yeah.
And I meant deficient.
In my mind I went to deficient.
So I should have beenoptimistic and went with my
first thought, but I thoughtthat's mother's covenant.
Yep Waffle House is the mostwonderful, favorite, best
(42:42):
amazing restaurant in America,in the world.
It's lovely, it's lovely yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
I've never been to Waffle House during the day.
Well, anyway, something thathas made you smile big this week
.
Speaker 2 (42:57):
My family all the time.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
Man.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
My family, every all of them my kids, my wife, my
brothers, my sisters.
My second to the youngestsister is being ordained at my
sister her husband's church thisweekend.
So I'm on, you know I'm oncloud nine.
So my family, my family, makesme smile all the time and I have
pictures of them all throughoutmy office, my whole family.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
I love that.
Nothing like family.
And lastly, a little bit deeper.
So 10 years from now, when welook back at this moment for
HBCUs and higher education, whatkind of disruption do you hope
for your leadership and Wiley'sexample will represent?
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Multiplication, and Wiley's example will represent
Multiplication.
Maxwell talks about the supremein leadership is to multiply
that effective leader, thatdisruptor.
If I'm able to help people findtheir disruption on a large
scale and we have a litany offearless, bold people committed
(44:05):
to this work that would make myheart smile.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
President, Herman Felton reminds us that
disruption isn't just aboutchange.
It's about resolve, vision andpreparing the next generation to
lead.
Thank you so much for joiningus on the North Star.
Stay tuned for moreconversations with leaders who
are reshaping what's possible.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
I'll tell you.
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