January 25, 2025 • 28 mins
What if the secret to overcoming addiction lies not in avoiding triggers, but in facing them head-on? Join us for an insightful conversation with the ever-inspiring Eliza Parkinson as we challenge the conventional approach to recovery from alcohol. Eliza shares her unique perspective on managing triggers with intention and care, drawing parallels to cognitive behavioral therapy techniques. Together, we explore the transformative power of gradual exposure, allowing individuals to cultivate self-trust and diminish the hold alcohol may have over their lives. Our discussion highlights the importance of taking small, deliberate steps to avoid isolation and embrace a life full of meaningful and fulfilling experiences.
As the episode unfolds, we shift our focus to the art of socializing without alcohol—a seemingly daunting task for many on the path of recovery. We arm our listeners with practical strategies for navigating social situations, emphasizing the significance of preparation and visualization. By imagining yourself confidently declining a drink or managing cravings, you can set the stage for success. Eliza and I explore the idea that connection is a powerful antidote to addiction, urging listeners to maintain social bonds while embracing the discomfort that often accompanies growth. We remind you that pushing beyond your comfort zones can lead to enriched life experiences and sustained friendships.
We close our discussion by diving into the importance of community in the recovery journey. Eliza opens up about her experiences finding supportive spaces that celebrate both individuality and inclusivity. Whether through online groups or face-to-face connections, the sense of belonging and emotional support offered by these communities is invaluable. Drawing inspiration from resources like Laura McCallum's "Push Off From Here," we underscore the healing power of vulnerability and acceptance. As we invite you to share your own stories and connect with us, we hope to foster a supportive network for all who are navigating the complexities of recovery.
MEG
Web: https://www.meganwebb.com.au/
Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/meganwebbcoaching/
Unwined Bookclub: https://www.alcoholfreedom.com.au/unwinedbookclub
ConnectAF group coaching: https://www.elizaparkinson.com/groupcoaching
BELLA
Web: https://isabellaferguson.com.au
Insta: @alcoholcounsellorisabella
Bi-Yearly 6-Week Small Group Challenges: Learn more: https://www.isabellaferguson.com.au/feb-2025-challenge
Free Do I Have A Drinking Problem 3 x Video Series: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/offers/JTFFgjJL/checkout
Free HOW DO I STOP DRINKING SO MUCH Masterclass: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/offers/7fvkb3FF/checkout
Online Alcohol Self-Paced Course: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/offers/fDzcyvWL/checkout...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey guys, welcome to the podcast Today.
I'm really excited to have myfriend Eliza on.
Eliza Parkinson and I have hadher on before.
If you want to listen to herstory, it's episode number 84,
but I'd love to welcome Elizaback.
Hey, how are you going?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hey, hi, megan, I'm so happy to be back, so happy to
be back on your putty.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Eliza's over in Canada and yeah, across the
world, we are uniting.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Very exciting.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
That's right.
I know getting a time where wecan talk together is always
interesting.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yes, it is.
It's fun because Eliza and Ialso work together, so we are
constantly looking at timedifferences.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, I think I have that like bookmarked the
Australia Canada Eastern timezone thing bookmarked on my
computer.
Yeah, yeah same same.
Because we talk almost everyday now.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yes, we do.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, so what should we talk about today?
I was thinking about, like I'vebeen thinking a lot about
triggers, uh-huh, yes.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
In the sort of recovery world which I don't
even like, using the wordrecovery, sober, alcoholic, I
don't use any of those worlds,but I was thinking about in the
general, like recovery world,the sorry, I tripped over my
tongue that being triggered issomething that people are told
(01:34):
very early on to avoid.
Avoid your triggers.
Avoid them, you know.
Or a natural instinct comes inwhere we're trying to
self-protect ourselves becausewe don't want to be triggered.
Bars or pubs, uh, to the movies, to um a party, uh, like a, a,
a neighborhood party, a biggerparty, a work party, you know
(02:11):
there's a tendency to want toisolate, pull ourselves in and
not go out.
And in the recovery world, youknow triggers are a bad word.
Let's not get triggered.
Um um, so I think that I want tocall like bullshit on that yeah
(02:31):
like I really do.
I think at the beginning yeah, Ithink at the beginning yes
there's a kind ofself-protection where, when
you're going through um, when,when you're with the first few
days when you're, you knowyou're not drinking, or the
first week and a half whenyou're not drinking, two weeks,
yes, okay, all right, okay,let's protect ourselves, let's
get through that period of whenyour body is detoxifying, but
(02:59):
let's not avoid triggers afterthat that's really interesting
because I so Eliza's a coachalso like me, so I know, at the
beginning for me I think Inaturally, like you said, I did
isolate a bit and at that pointI wasn't really talking to
anyone on the same journey.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
So that was just something I did and I had to
then, as I went on, make aconscious decision to push
myself.
But with clients I find that itvaries.
So when you're, you know,saying after about two weeks,
what does that look like?
Because for some people it canbe too much going to a party.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Right, okay, oh, for sure.
So I'm not saying go out thereand be like the partier, like
you were, and just do it withoutalcohol.
I'm saying, gently, put yourselfback in situations that you
believe may trigger you to drink, because in life we are going
to be in those situations and wedon't want to avoid them and we
(04:05):
don't want to be scared ofalcohol.
We don't want to, we want totrust ourselves.
So, um, if we can beuncomfortable and not drink, if
we can put ourselves into areasof discomfort and and go, whoa,
actually I did that withoutalcohol and it wasn't so bad and
and yes, I did have a craving,I did, but I got through it.
(04:29):
Well, it just fortifies you, itjust builds you up, it just,
it's just, it's so powerful toturn those triggers into almost
learning moments about yourselfor signals that are telling you
something that you need to workon, instead of like let's, let's
(04:51):
break them down, let's do them.
I just think that we don't wantto.
We want to live more freely,and if we avoid things because
of alcohol, it has too muchpower.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that it kind of sounds a bit
like I'm really big intocognitive behavior therapy,
doing things in little tinysteps and it's a lot of those
lines.
Yeah, you put yourself in thesituation as a small step, you
can always remove yourself, likethe thing I used to do was go
to a party and leave after anhour, and it is.
It's building up that well,there's momentum pride, trust in
(05:25):
yourself to be able to do thesethings.
So I really, I really like thatand and the problem with
isolating is it become, canbecome, bigger and bigger that's
right.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, it can become bigger and bigger until your
sobriety, which I don't even usethat word, but so your sobriety
looks like pretty bloodymiserable.
Yeah, you know, um where youyou're isolated and you're
afraid to do anything becauseyou might drink yeah um, so I'm
saying let's, let's hit it,let's hit it on like let's, let
(05:57):
let's do the things that wedidn't think that we could do
without alcohol earlier than wethink that you know, like gently
, gently, just a little bit,like you said, with I like to
call it scaffolding.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
With the right kind of scaffolding.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah.
You know, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, I know we both know this tactic called a buddy,
a plan and an excuse.
So you go into these, you go atyou.
First of all, I always like totalk about visualization.
You go into something,visualizing yourself happy and
relaxed.
You go with what are youwearing?
What do you?
You know, you visualizebeforehand.
(06:37):
You go and you're safe andyou're happy, you're relaxed.
You have a non-alcoholic drinkin your hand and you just like
relax and you hang out.
Then you and you visualize thatquite like, how did you get
there?
You visualize the whole thingbecause your mind doesn't know
that it's not real.
There's a part of your mindthat does know that it's not
real, but a lot of your minddoesn't.
(06:58):
So it's like real practice,yeah, um, and that works.
It's like a violinist, um,going over scales or music or
whatever.
Or or a football player goingover drills and their head.
It really works.
And then, um, yeah, and then totell somebody that you're not
drinking, like, set yourself up,scaffold your, but don't not go
(07:21):
.
You know, like a buddy, youtell someone that you're not
drinking.
A plan which is likevisualization Um, when am I
going to leave?
Um, what excuses am I going touse that I'm not drinking or
excuse is probably you know why.
What are you going to tellpeople?
Like at the beginning I wouldsay, oh, I'm taking, I'm just
(07:41):
taking a short break fromalcohol and then later I said it
was it felt so good, I justkept going and then you know.
So that kind of planning.
Where am I?
What am I going to do if Istart feeling like I have it,
like I want to drink?
How am I going to remove myself?
What am I going to do?
Am I going to breathe?
(08:03):
Am I going to leave, like aplan, and the excuse is I'm
ready to go home now.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Yeah, it can be.
You know, whatever'scomfortable to you, it can be
I'm on antibiotics, likewhatever it is, or I need an
early night.
I've got a gym session at 6am,it just doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Whatever feels right for you in the beginning exactly
, exactly, because you know, ifyou look at that, uh, what is
that adage?
Connection is the opposite ofaddiction.
Yeah, well, if we takeconnection away, if we take
socialization away and communityaway, then we're taking out a
(08:38):
really fundamental piece of howto you know how to not drink,
like we're taking out a reallyfundamental piece of how to you
know how to not drink, likewe're taking away the connection
and the community.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Absolutely yeah, and it's so right, you know.
And then I've had people say,well, this sucks because it's so
boring or, you know, is itworth it?
And it actually takes work, andwe will talk about the, you
know, friendship side of things,but it is something that I've
had to work at to make my lifereally fulfilling and joyful.
(09:12):
You know, yes, there's a bit ofa change, so I've worked at it,
and so just sitting back andwaiting for the world to change
because we've stopped drinking,it's not going to cut it.
So I love what you're saying.
You know, start to get outthere in small, comfortable
steps, practice.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Fake it a little bit.
Fake Like, if you put a smileon your face, actually the
hormones go through your body.
It tells you that you're safe.
I remember doing a heavy yogapractice.
I remember doing a heavy yogapractice and the the the teacher
said smile during the mostuncomfortable position because
(09:49):
it tells your body and mind thatyou're safe and it allows you
to stay in that position.
It's the same thing here.
It's like doing an exercise.
Smile, tell your body you'resafe.
You know, tell your body you'regoing to look at your mind,
that you're going to look afterwe can leave.
We can leave whenever you want.
We're just trying this out.
We're just seeing what it'slike.
(10:10):
But fake this Like.
If you have to fake a smile,fake a smile.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Like it's not being out of integrity, I think, to
sort of like try on differentthings, you know.
Try on being smiley and happywhen inside you're a little bit
nervous, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , and it just it makes so much
sense and I remember I still doit.
You know, if something comes up, a social event, and I'm like I
really push myself out of thatcomfort zone, my comfort zone,
and like recently I went to afriend's gathering and I've been
sort of umming and ahhing.
(10:50):
I never I pretty much alwaysleave feeling so much better,
like once I've been, I reallyend up.
I cut my time short if I needto, but there's I can't even
recall a time where I've gone.
I wish I hadn't gone, becausethat connection, like you said,
is so important and that's a waythat I keep friendships alive.
(11:11):
But you also mentioned thediscomfort and I think that's
very, very important, because inlife we work so hard to get
away from discomfort.
I mean, that's the bottom linefor so many issues in our lives
is that we don't want to feeluncomfortable.
So a big part of what we'velearned is learning to feel that
(11:32):
.
That's the clue, that's theanswer.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
You know, what's curious about socialising and I
coach this a lot is that whenyou go to a party, when you go
to a new restaurant, when you goto or even a restaurant you've
been to before, but you, you'regoing there without drinking and
you're socializing.
When you're in a new situation,it takes 20 minutes for you to
(11:56):
acclimatize.
It takes 20 minutes ofdiscomfort to acclimatize, and
that's when we use alcohol toget through the first 20 minutes
right of the discomfort ofsocialization.
Especially if you have a bit ofsocial anxiety, like I do, that
first 20 minutes can seem alittle agonizing.
But guess what?
(12:17):
That same 20 minutes that thealcohol takes to come in and and
do it, it do what it does.
It would go away, naturally ifyou just did the same 20 minutes
and sort of faked it to make,to made it you know what I mean.
Like what's more fake, youputting on a smile and walking
(12:38):
in and doing it, or using anaddictive neurotoxin to make you
feel more comfortable.
So they're both fake.
You know what?
I or they're both, they're bothnot real in a way, but who
cares?
we can do that and teach ourbody that we can get through
that discomfort yeah so and wecan do that earlier than we
(13:01):
think.
That's what I'm saying Embracethat, embrace the trigger.
Or if you get a trigger andlet's say you do drink, don't
avoid that trigger again.
Let's work on what triggeredyou to drink and you did drink,
because that is where all theinformation is.
Let's use it Like I love that,if we get to the community and
(13:26):
the connection aspect of it, Ithink that if we can get that,
because so many people areafraid of losing their friends,
of losing their community, oflosing where they go you know
they might stop at a bar on theway home every day.
They're afraid of losing that.
(13:46):
That might be their onlyconnection, uh, like outside of
their home or work, you know, um, and they're, everyone that I
talked to is so afraid of losingthat.
So if we can be and and they're, they don't think they can do
that.
They don't think they can do itonce they quit drinking.
But I'm saying maybe you canyeah absolutely, if you hit the
(14:11):
head.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, and you know, the irony is like I, towards the
end of my drinking career, Iisolated.
So ultimately, the the youdrink, the more isolated you
become.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
You're so right, megan?
Yeah, because you take yourselfout of situations.
Yeah, or you avoid doing thingsbecause there isn't going to be
alcohol there, or becauseyou're feeling cut over, or
because you don't want peopleyeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah, couldn't drink at the pace I wanted, you know
it it was.
It was very isolating and um,and so, yeah, what, what?
What do you want?
Like I did, I want to beisolated and drinking, or did I
want to feel the discomfort ofnot knowing, not knowing?
You know, how will I havefriendship groups?
How will this work, but notdrink?
(15:01):
Right, so, yeah, right, so,yeah, I picked, I picked a.
They're both hard.
I picked a different hard.
That was, um, that's ultimatelyturned out to be the best thing
ever and we have, we have ideason how to, you know, build
these communities.
Um, it doesn't have to benaturally.
I think you'll find with yourgroup of friends what works and
(15:22):
what doesn't.
And I always say to my clientsyou know, yes, I don't have a
relationship with a couple ofpeople I used to drink with, but
that's, that's okay, becausewhen I looked at it, we only had
drinking in common.
Anyone else like that.
We went deeper.
We've, we remain connected andand I have actively worked at,
(15:43):
and and they have too atconnecting over things like
brunch, uh, like going for walks, like the other night I went to
a movie with one of my friends.
We do, really, we do fun thingsthat are healthy, that aren't
around drinking and it takessome time going.
Oh, I'm feeling a bituncomfortable or isolated.
I know I'll reach out to afriend, you know.
(16:03):
Just something like that.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
And yeah, I mean in myexperience, the energy with some
friendships do change.
It does change.
And you know, mel Robbins, Ithink I was listening to her on
a podcast and she was talkingabout like the three pillars of
friendship which are here.
I wrote them down, the threepillars of friendship.
(16:26):
Proximity, which a lot ofpeople like we don't have
proximity but somehow we do haveproximity through Zoom and
because we work together.
But timing of life, like youknow, things like like what is
the timing of our life?
She says, like you know,kindergarten children up all the
(16:46):
way through school, all the waythrough college, you're with
your same age group in the samestage of life.
So it's very easy to havefriendship like that.
But the third pillar is energy.
Energy, what energy you bring,and when you quit drinking, your
energy does change.
And the energy of the peopleyou want to be with changes.
(17:08):
Excuse me, yeah, the energy ofthe people that you want to be
with.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
It changes, everything changes connection is
, I would say, the mostimportant thing for me.
So I've got beautiful friendsthat I'm still friends with.
I have my work friends who Ilove, like different friends,
different things.
I I have a few things I dolocally we have a meetup group
in Sydney, that kind of thingbut I also have a big connection
(17:35):
online with people that are inthe same place as me, with not
drinking like us, like coaches,like people on this journey.
That's been massive.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yeah, I remember when I woke up the morning after my
last bout of drinking and I waslooking on Instagram and I might
have mentioned this in my lasttalk with you on this podcast
but I felt very alone and veryisolated and like I was probably
(18:08):
the only person in the worldwhich, of course, I wasn't
waking up on New Year's Dayfeeling that disgusting.
And I looked on Instagram and Ifound a community it was like
called the, the sober gals orsober or something, and I was
like they all looked like.
I was like, oh wow, I mean, youcan look like that and be sober
(18:29):
like you can.
It all looked very, it alllooked quite beautiful and
amazing and I wanted to know allof these people.
And that's how I discoveredcreating community online.
That was so I didn't realize.
I didn't realize until I foundthat that it was so important
for me to meet other women andmen who I could say me too, me
(18:51):
too, me too, me too, me too.
It just made such a hugedifference.
So, yeah, we, megan and I, havestarted a group called connect
af af, standing for alcohol free, and you don't have to be
alcohol free to be in it.
Um, but it's such a beautifulcommunity, um, and we have two
um zooms.
(19:12):
Uh, zoom chats a week, groupchats a week, and we talk about
whatever we want to talkessentially, um, sometimes it's
content, um, like like we couldtalk about triggers in one of
them, like we could have a wholething about triggers or about
um so many different things todo with living an alcohol-free
(19:35):
life.
So, yeah, we meet twice a week.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Uh, megan does one zoom and I do the other, and
it's great, it's called ConnectAF it is so good and I think
it's um just such an importantwhatever the community looks
like, an important part of thisjourney, and um all information
will be in the show notes sopeople can find the links.
There's a link to Connect AFunder my name and then Bella's
(19:59):
got her groups that she runsbecause there's there's
something out there for everyone, whatever.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
There is.
Yeah, Whatever you this is aspace that is growing.
This is a space that is growing.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Like some people really want like, like an LGBTQ
space, and there isn't that.
If you and there is that youcan find that online Some people
want, you know, a space.
That is like I'm sayingspecifically for how they
identify.
Our space is for everybody.
We're just a really beautiful,cozy, wonderful friend group and
(20:38):
the thing that we have incommon is that either we are not
drinking like but we did, orwe're working on it, you know,
or maybe some, some people areworking towards moderation.
They're trying to figure it out, but everybody has this in
common yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
You know, what I love also about having a group like
this is it helped me in theinitial when we were talking
about the socializing, and Ioften say it to my clients.
It's if you go to say you gointo a wedding that you kind of
have to go to but you're feelingvery reluctant, I would say to
(21:17):
them if you're really struggling, pop into the bathroom, text
your group, you know, get, get,yeah, get someone's going to be
there.
This is the beauty of havingpeople all around the world.
Someone will always be at theother end and just say I've
popped in the bathroom, I needsome support, you know, and and
it's that's right, it's amazing,you know that really helped me
(21:39):
and still does help me If I'mdoing something that's I love to
step out of my comfort zone.
Love-hate relationship there is, you know, feel the discomfort,
but I will tell some of my youknow a group or some people on
this journey with me.
I'll tell them, you know, I'mfeeling scared and somehow it
gives me the confidence.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
That's right, saying it out loud.
Saying it out loud is soamazing, so amazing.
Uh, it somehow brings the um,that that struggle, um, down by
50%.
Just reaching out Um, and andthat's that's really remarkable,
(22:19):
because having someone who'sbeen through it and doing it
with you is really, it'sbeautiful.
It's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
It is, it's that we're not alone.
Like you said, that day youwoke up and felt so alone.
I did the same thing as soon asmy first break from alcohol.
I got straight on the internetand looked for a group, and it
was before.
Well, I'd never looked before.
So I looked for something ininternet and looked for a group,
and it was before well, I'dnever looked before.
So I looked for something inAustralia and there was a group
run by someone called RebeccaWeller, and it was just a 90-day
(22:50):
program.
It was no.
There was no live interactionwith other people, but just
having something daily to readand connect with, knowing that
someone had put it together whowas on the same journey.
Just suddenly I wasn't alone.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Huge, huge, yeah, huge.
It just makes an enormousdifference.
You know, doing this alone isreally hard.
Like what does what's her name,Laura McCallum, say?
You know you can't do thisalone, but you have to do it.
Yes, you know what I mean.
Like something like that.
(23:25):
That's one of her nine things Ican't remember.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
I have the book that's in the book push off from
here, which I've actuallythat's it.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yeah, push off from here.
Yeah, so it's one.
If you look at the chapters,it's the.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
You can't do it alone .
Chapter six and chapter sevenOnly you can do it.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
That's right.
So community is really, reallyimportant and there are tons of
communities out there.
We have one, laura McCallum hasone.
Yeah, we're excited because westarted ours at the beginning of
December and I love it.
I love our community.
Yeah, for me, for me it was, itwas uh, I would say, one of the
(24:07):
top, top, top things belonging,feeling like I belong, yeah
yeah, and I think belongings,that, or acceptance, is like the
number one need that's right,and it took me a while in the
first group that I was in tofeel like I belonged and I
realized that that was somethingthat was in me.
It wasn't that I didn't belong,it was that in me I never had
(24:32):
felt like I belonged.
That was sort of like a corewound, you could say, and so
that ended up being somethingthat I have had to work on, you
know, um, but it presenteditself very early on in these
groups.
I don't feel like I belong andI would look for excuses why I
didn't belong and then once in agroup, I said I don't feel like
(24:53):
I belong.
I just don't feel like I belongand in saying it, like you were
saying before, and voicing it, Istarted fullfilling, because
how many people in that groupdidn't feel like they really
belonged?
It bonded us together oh,that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I love that.
Yeah, and so for everyonelistening, you can find us in
the show notes.
Like I said, isabella's got herinformation there.
I've got mine.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
You will see the link , and we'd love to hear from
anyone and everyone yeah, tellus how you belong, tell us how
you found your community, howyou connect.
We would love, we would love tohear, I would love to read the
you know response to that.
And also, um, if you want tolike, if you don't have time to
(25:44):
look at the show notes, you cango to my website,
elizaparkinsoncom and there's atab that says connect af.
And so, if you're interested,um, just put in your name there.
That doesn't mean that you'resigning up and paying or
whatever.
Just put in your name there andwe'll see that, uh, that you,
that you've shown interestawesome.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Thank you so much for being here today, eliza.
I'm so happy to so nice and uh,I will have you back another
time and we can uh dig intosomething else yeah, looking
forward to it, looking forwardto it.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Thank you, megan.
Hey guys, welcome to the podcast Today.
I'm really excited to have myfriend Eliza on.
Eliza Parkinson and I have hadher on before.
If you want to listen to herstory, it's episode number 84,
but I'd love to welcome Elizaback.
Hey, how are you going?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hey, hi, megan, I'm so happy to be back, so happy to
be back on your putty.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Eliza's over in Canada and yeah, across the
world, we are uniting.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Very exciting.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
That's right.
I know getting a time where wecan talk together is always
interesting.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yes, it is.
It's fun because Eliza and Ialso work together, so we are
constantly looking at timedifferences.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, I think I have that like bookmarked the
Australia Canada Eastern timezone thing bookmarked on my
computer.
Yeah, yeah same same.
Because we talk almost everyday now.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yes, we do.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, so what should we talk about today?
I was thinking about, like I'vebeen thinking a lot about
triggers, uh-huh, yes.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
In the sort of recovery world which I don't
even like, using the wordrecovery, sober, alcoholic, I
don't use any of those worlds,but I was thinking about in the
general, like recovery world,the sorry, I tripped over my
tongue that being triggered issomething that people are told
(01:34):
very early on to avoid.
Avoid your triggers.
Avoid them, you know.
Or a natural instinct comes inwhere we're trying to
self-protect ourselves becausewe don't want to be triggered.
Bars or pubs, uh, to the movies, to um a party, uh, like a, a,
a neighborhood party, a biggerparty, a work party, you know
(02:11):
there's a tendency to want toisolate, pull ourselves in and
not go out.
And in the recovery world, youknow triggers are a bad word.
Let's not get triggered.
Um um, so I think that I want tocall like bullshit on that yeah
(02:31):
like I really do.
I think at the beginning yeah, Ithink at the beginning yes
there's a kind ofself-protection where, when
you're going through um, when,when you're with the first few
days when you're, you knowyou're not drinking, or the
first week and a half whenyou're not drinking, two weeks,
yes, okay, all right, okay,let's protect ourselves, let's
get through that period of whenyour body is detoxifying, but
(02:59):
let's not avoid triggers afterthat that's really interesting
because I so Eliza's a coachalso like me, so I know, at the
beginning for me I think Inaturally, like you said, I did
isolate a bit and at that pointI wasn't really talking to
anyone on the same journey.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
So that was just something I did and I had to
then, as I went on, make aconscious decision to push
myself.
But with clients I find that itvaries.
So when you're, you know,saying after about two weeks,
what does that look like?
Because for some people it canbe too much going to a party.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Right, okay, oh, for sure.
So I'm not saying go out thereand be like the partier, like
you were, and just do it withoutalcohol.
I'm saying, gently, put yourselfback in situations that you
believe may trigger you to drink, because in life we are going
to be in those situations and wedon't want to avoid them and we
(04:05):
don't want to be scared ofalcohol.
We don't want to, we want totrust ourselves.
So, um, if we can beuncomfortable and not drink, if
we can put ourselves into areasof discomfort and and go, whoa,
actually I did that withoutalcohol and it wasn't so bad and
and yes, I did have a craving,I did, but I got through it.
(04:29):
Well, it just fortifies you, itjust builds you up, it just,
it's just, it's so powerful toturn those triggers into almost
learning moments about yourselfor signals that are telling you
something that you need to workon, instead of like let's, let's
(04:51):
break them down, let's do them.
I just think that we don't wantto.
We want to live more freely,and if we avoid things because
of alcohol, it has too muchpower.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that it kind of sounds a bit
like I'm really big intocognitive behavior therapy,
doing things in little tinysteps and it's a lot of those
lines.
Yeah, you put yourself in thesituation as a small step, you
can always remove yourself, likethe thing I used to do was go
to a party and leave after anhour, and it is.
It's building up that well,there's momentum pride, trust in
(05:25):
yourself to be able to do thesethings.
So I really, I really like thatand and the problem with
isolating is it become, canbecome, bigger and bigger that's
right.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, it can become bigger and bigger until your
sobriety, which I don't even usethat word, but so your sobriety
looks like pretty bloodymiserable.
Yeah, you know, um where youyou're isolated and you're
afraid to do anything becauseyou might drink yeah um, so I'm
saying let's, let's hit it,let's hit it on like let's, let
(05:57):
let's do the things that wedidn't think that we could do
without alcohol earlier than wethink that you know, like gently
, gently, just a little bit,like you said, with I like to
call it scaffolding.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
With the right kind of scaffolding.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Yeah.
You know, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, I know we both know this tactic called a buddy,
a plan and an excuse.
So you go into these, you go atyou.
First of all, I always like totalk about visualization.
You go into something,visualizing yourself happy and
relaxed.
You go with what are youwearing?
What do you?
You know, you visualizebeforehand.
(06:37):
You go and you're safe andyou're happy, you're relaxed.
You have a non-alcoholic drinkin your hand and you just like
relax and you hang out.
Then you and you visualize thatquite like, how did you get
there?
You visualize the whole thingbecause your mind doesn't know
that it's not real.
There's a part of your mindthat does know that it's not
real, but a lot of your minddoesn't.
(06:58):
So it's like real practice,yeah, um, and that works.
It's like a violinist, um,going over scales or music or
whatever.
Or or a football player goingover drills and their head.
It really works.
And then, um, yeah, and then totell somebody that you're not
drinking, like, set yourself up,scaffold your, but don't not go
(07:21):
.
You know, like a buddy, youtell someone that you're not
drinking.
A plan which is likevisualization Um, when am I
going to leave?
Um, what excuses am I going touse that I'm not drinking or
excuse is probably you know why.
What are you going to tellpeople?
Like at the beginning I wouldsay, oh, I'm taking, I'm just
(07:41):
taking a short break fromalcohol and then later I said it
was it felt so good, I justkept going and then you know.
So that kind of planning.
Where am I?
What am I going to do if Istart feeling like I have it,
like I want to drink?
How am I going to remove myself?
What am I going to do?
Am I going to breathe?
(08:03):
Am I going to leave, like aplan, and the excuse is I'm
ready to go home now.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Yeah, it can be.
You know, whatever'scomfortable to you, it can be
I'm on antibiotics, likewhatever it is, or I need an
early night.
I've got a gym session at 6am,it just doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Whatever feels right for you in the beginning exactly
, exactly, because you know, ifyou look at that, uh, what is
that adage?
Connection is the opposite ofaddiction.
Yeah, well, if we takeconnection away, if we take
socialization away and communityaway, then we're taking out a
(08:38):
really fundamental piece of howto you know how to not drink,
like we're taking out a reallyfundamental piece of how to you
know how to not drink, likewe're taking away the connection
and the community.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
Absolutely yeah, and it's so right, you know.
And then I've had people say,well, this sucks because it's so
boring or, you know, is itworth it?
And it actually takes work, andwe will talk about the, you
know, friendship side of things,but it is something that I've
had to work at to make my lifereally fulfilling and joyful.
(09:12):
You know, yes, there's a bit ofa change, so I've worked at it,
and so just sitting back andwaiting for the world to change
because we've stopped drinking,it's not going to cut it.
So I love what you're saying.
You know, start to get outthere in small, comfortable
steps, practice.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Fake it a little bit.
Fake Like, if you put a smileon your face, actually the
hormones go through your body.
It tells you that you're safe.
I remember doing a heavy yogapractice.
I remember doing a heavy yogapractice and the the the teacher
said smile during the mostuncomfortable position because
(09:49):
it tells your body and mind thatyou're safe and it allows you
to stay in that position.
It's the same thing here.
It's like doing an exercise.
Smile, tell your body you'resafe.
You know, tell your body you'regoing to look at your mind,
that you're going to look afterwe can leave.
We can leave whenever you want.
We're just trying this out.
We're just seeing what it'slike.
(10:10):
But fake this Like.
If you have to fake a smile,fake a smile.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Like it's not being out of integrity, I think, to
sort of like try on differentthings, you know.
Try on being smiley and happywhen inside you're a little bit
nervous, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, absolutely yeah , and it just it makes so much
sense and I remember I still doit.
You know, if something comes up, a social event, and I'm like I
really push myself out of thatcomfort zone, my comfort zone,
and like recently I went to afriend's gathering and I've been
sort of umming and ahhing.
(10:50):
I never I pretty much alwaysleave feeling so much better,
like once I've been, I reallyend up.
I cut my time short if I needto, but there's I can't even
recall a time where I've gone.
I wish I hadn't gone, becausethat connection, like you said,
is so important and that's a waythat I keep friendships alive.
(11:11):
But you also mentioned thediscomfort and I think that's
very, very important, because inlife we work so hard to get
away from discomfort.
I mean, that's the bottom linefor so many issues in our lives
is that we don't want to feeluncomfortable.
So a big part of what we'velearned is learning to feel that
(11:32):
.
That's the clue, that's theanswer.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
You know, what's curious about socialising and I
coach this a lot is that whenyou go to a party, when you go
to a new restaurant, when you goto or even a restaurant you've
been to before, but you, you'regoing there without drinking and
you're socializing.
When you're in a new situation,it takes 20 minutes for you to
(11:56):
acclimatize.
It takes 20 minutes ofdiscomfort to acclimatize, and
that's when we use alcohol toget through the first 20 minutes
right of the discomfort ofsocialization.
Especially if you have a bit ofsocial anxiety, like I do, that
first 20 minutes can seem alittle agonizing.
But guess what?
(12:17):
That same 20 minutes that thealcohol takes to come in and and
do it, it do what it does.
It would go away, naturally ifyou just did the same 20 minutes
and sort of faked it to make,to made it you know what I mean.
Like what's more fake, youputting on a smile and walking
(12:38):
in and doing it, or using anaddictive neurotoxin to make you
feel more comfortable.
So they're both fake.
You know what?
I or they're both, they're bothnot real in a way, but who
cares?
we can do that and teach ourbody that we can get through
that discomfort yeah so and wecan do that earlier than we
(13:01):
think.
That's what I'm saying Embracethat, embrace the trigger.
Or if you get a trigger andlet's say you do drink, don't
avoid that trigger again.
Let's work on what triggeredyou to drink and you did drink,
because that is where all theinformation is.
Let's use it Like I love that,if we get to the community and
(13:26):
the connection aspect of it, Ithink that if we can get that,
because so many people areafraid of losing their friends,
of losing their community, oflosing where they go you know
they might stop at a bar on theway home every day.
They're afraid of losing that.
(13:46):
That might be their onlyconnection, uh, like outside of
their home or work, you know, um, and they're, everyone that I
talked to is so afraid of losingthat.
So if we can be and and they're, they don't think they can do
that.
They don't think they can do itonce they quit drinking.
But I'm saying maybe you canyeah absolutely, if you hit the
(14:11):
head.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, and you know, the irony is like I, towards the
end of my drinking career, Iisolated.
So ultimately, the the youdrink, the more isolated you
become.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
You're so right, megan?
Yeah, because you take yourselfout of situations.
Yeah, or you avoid doing thingsbecause there isn't going to be
alcohol there, or becauseyou're feeling cut over, or
because you don't want peopleyeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah, couldn't drink at the pace I wanted, you know
it it was.
It was very isolating and um,and so, yeah, what, what?
What do you want?
Like I did, I want to beisolated and drinking, or did I
want to feel the discomfort ofnot knowing, not knowing?
You know, how will I havefriendship groups?
How will this work, but notdrink?
(15:01):
Right, so, yeah, right, so,yeah, I picked, I picked a.
They're both hard.
I picked a different hard.
That was, um, that's ultimatelyturned out to be the best thing
ever and we have, we have ideason how to, you know, build
these communities.
Um, it doesn't have to benaturally.
I think you'll find with yourgroup of friends what works and
(15:22):
what doesn't.
And I always say to my clientsyou know, yes, I don't have a
relationship with a couple ofpeople I used to drink with, but
that's, that's okay, becausewhen I looked at it, we only had
drinking in common.
Anyone else like that.
We went deeper.
We've, we remain connected andand I have actively worked at,
(15:43):
and and they have too atconnecting over things like
brunch, uh, like going for walks, like the other night I went to
a movie with one of my friends.
We do, really, we do fun thingsthat are healthy, that aren't
around drinking and it takessome time going.
Oh, I'm feeling a bituncomfortable or isolated.
I know I'll reach out to afriend, you know.
(16:03):
Just something like that.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
And yeah, I mean in myexperience, the energy with some
friendships do change.
It does change.
And you know, mel Robbins, Ithink I was listening to her on
a podcast and she was talkingabout like the three pillars of
friendship which are here.
I wrote them down, the threepillars of friendship.
(16:26):
Proximity, which a lot ofpeople like we don't have
proximity but somehow we do haveproximity through Zoom and
because we work together.
But timing of life, like youknow, things like like what is
the timing of our life?
She says, like you know,kindergarten children up all the
(16:46):
way through school, all the waythrough college, you're with
your same age group in the samestage of life.
So it's very easy to havefriendship like that.
But the third pillar is energy.
Energy, what energy you bring,and when you quit drinking, your
energy does change.
And the energy of the peopleyou want to be with changes.
(17:08):
Excuse me, yeah, the energy ofthe people that you want to be
with.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
It changes, everything changes connection is
, I would say, the mostimportant thing for me.
So I've got beautiful friendsthat I'm still friends with.
I have my work friends who Ilove, like different friends,
different things.
I I have a few things I dolocally we have a meetup group
in Sydney, that kind of thingbut I also have a big connection
(17:35):
online with people that are inthe same place as me, with not
drinking like us, like coaches,like people on this journey.
That's been massive.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Yeah, I remember when I woke up the morning after my
last bout of drinking and I waslooking on Instagram and I might
have mentioned this in my lasttalk with you on this podcast
but I felt very alone and veryisolated and like I was probably
(18:08):
the only person in the worldwhich, of course, I wasn't
waking up on New Year's Dayfeeling that disgusting.
And I looked on Instagram and Ifound a community it was like
called the, the sober gals orsober or something, and I was
like they all looked like.
I was like, oh wow, I mean, youcan look like that and be sober
(18:29):
like you can.
It all looked very, it alllooked quite beautiful and
amazing and I wanted to know allof these people.
And that's how I discoveredcreating community online.
That was so I didn't realize.
I didn't realize until I foundthat that it was so important
for me to meet other women andmen who I could say me too, me
(18:51):
too, me too, me too, me too.
It just made such a hugedifference.
So, yeah, we, megan and I, havestarted a group called connect
af af, standing for alcohol free, and you don't have to be
alcohol free to be in it.
Um, but it's such a beautifulcommunity, um, and we have two
um zooms.
(19:12):
Uh, zoom chats a week, groupchats a week, and we talk about
whatever we want to talkessentially, um, sometimes it's
content, um, like like we couldtalk about triggers in one of
them, like we could have a wholething about triggers or about
um so many different things todo with living an alcohol-free
(19:35):
life.
So, yeah, we meet twice a week.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Uh, megan does one zoom and I do the other, and
it's great, it's called ConnectAF it is so good and I think
it's um just such an importantwhatever the community looks
like, an important part of thisjourney, and um all information
will be in the show notes sopeople can find the links.
There's a link to Connect AFunder my name and then Bella's
(19:59):
got her groups that she runsbecause there's there's
something out there for everyone, whatever.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
There is.
Yeah, Whatever you this is aspace that is growing.
This is a space that is growing.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Like some people really want like, like an LGBTQ
space, and there isn't that.
If you and there is that youcan find that online Some people
want, you know, a space.
That is like I'm sayingspecifically for how they
identify.
Our space is for everybody.
We're just a really beautiful,cozy, wonderful friend group and
(20:38):
the thing that we have incommon is that either we are not
drinking like but we did, orwe're working on it, you know,
or maybe some, some people areworking towards moderation.
They're trying to figure it out, but everybody has this in
common yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
You know, what I love also about having a group like
this is it helped me in theinitial when we were talking
about the socializing, and Ioften say it to my clients.
It's if you go to say you gointo a wedding that you kind of
have to go to but you're feelingvery reluctant, I would say to
(21:17):
them if you're really struggling, pop into the bathroom, text
your group, you know, get, get,yeah, get someone's going to be
there.
This is the beauty of havingpeople all around the world.
Someone will always be at theother end and just say I've
popped in the bathroom, I needsome support, you know, and and
it's that's right, it's amazing,you know that really helped me
(21:39):
and still does help me If I'mdoing something that's I love to
step out of my comfort zone.
Love-hate relationship there is, you know, feel the discomfort,
but I will tell some of my youknow a group or some people on
this journey with me.
I'll tell them, you know, I'mfeeling scared and somehow it
gives me the confidence.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
That's right, saying it out loud.
Saying it out loud is soamazing, so amazing.
Uh, it somehow brings the um,that that struggle, um, down by
50%.
Just reaching out Um, and andthat's that's really remarkable,
(22:19):
because having someone who'sbeen through it and doing it
with you is really, it'sbeautiful.
It's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
It is, it's that we're not alone.
Like you said, that day youwoke up and felt so alone.
I did the same thing as soon asmy first break from alcohol.
I got straight on the internetand looked for a group, and it
was before.
Well, I'd never looked before.
So I looked for something ininternet and looked for a group,
and it was before well, I'dnever looked before.
So I looked for something inAustralia and there was a group
run by someone called RebeccaWeller, and it was just a 90-day
(22:50):
program.
It was no.
There was no live interactionwith other people, but just
having something daily to readand connect with, knowing that
someone had put it together whowas on the same journey.
Just suddenly I wasn't alone.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Huge, huge, yeah, huge.
It just makes an enormousdifference.
You know, doing this alone isreally hard.
Like what does what's her name,Laura McCallum, say?
You know you can't do thisalone, but you have to do it.
Yes, you know what I mean.
Like something like that.
(23:25):
That's one of her nine things Ican't remember.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
I have the book that's in the book push off from
here, which I've actuallythat's it.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Yeah, push off from here.
Yeah, so it's one.
If you look at the chapters,it's the.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
You can't do it alone .
Chapter six and chapter sevenOnly you can do it.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
That's right.
So community is really, reallyimportant and there are tons of
communities out there.
We have one, laura McCallum hasone.
Yeah, we're excited because westarted ours at the beginning of
December and I love it.
I love our community.
Yeah, for me, for me it was, itwas uh, I would say, one of the
(24:07):
top, top, top things belonging,feeling like I belong, yeah
yeah, and I think belongings,that, or acceptance, is like the
number one need that's right,and it took me a while in the
first group that I was in tofeel like I belonged and I
realized that that was somethingthat was in me.
It wasn't that I didn't belong,it was that in me I never had
(24:32):
felt like I belonged.
That was sort of like a corewound, you could say, and so
that ended up being somethingthat I have had to work on, you
know, um, but it presenteditself very early on in these
groups.
I don't feel like I belong andI would look for excuses why I
didn't belong and then once in agroup, I said I don't feel like
(24:53):
I belong.
I just don't feel like I belongand in saying it, like you were
saying before, and voicing it, Istarted fullfilling, because
how many people in that groupdidn't feel like they really
belonged?
It bonded us together oh,that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I love that.
Yeah, and so for everyonelistening, you can find us in
the show notes.
Like I said, isabella's got herinformation there.
I've got mine.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
You will see the link , and we'd love to hear from
anyone and everyone yeah, tellus how you belong, tell us how
you found your community, howyou connect.
We would love, we would love tohear, I would love to read the
you know response to that.
And also, um, if you want tolike, if you don't have time to
(25:44):
look at the show notes, you cango to my website,
elizaparkinsoncom and there's atab that says connect af.
And so, if you're interested,um, just put in your name there.
That doesn't mean that you'resigning up and paying or
whatever.
Just put in your name there andwe'll see that, uh, that you,
that you've shown interestawesome.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Thank you so much for being here today, eliza.
I'm so happy to so nice and uh,I will have you back another
time and we can uh dig intosomething else yeah, looking
forward to it, looking forwardto it.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Thank you, megan.
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