May 10, 2025 • 48 mins
Donna Bennett shares her five-year sobriety journey that began with an "Easter epiphany" during COVID lockdown, revealing how removing alcohol from her life led to profound personal transformation and newfound freedom. We cover so much in this episode, including:
• Recognising how alcohol had "sneakily" increased its influence over the years, particularly during lunchtime socialising
• Experiencing frightening blackouts and memory gaps during drinking sessions
• Using COVID lockdown as an opportunity to attempt sobriety without social pressure
• Discovering that moderate drinkers exist and learning to socialise without alcohol
• Finding connection and support through the Daybreak app after six weeks of solo sobriety
• Reading about alcohol's effects removed shame and the notion that lacking control was a personality flaw
• Experiencing better sleep, weight loss, and improved mental clarity after quitting
• Moving from "filling in time before dying" to finding joy and purpose in simple things
If you're curious about taking a break from alcohol and are looking for inspiration, take a listen to this episode.
MEG
Web: https://www.meganwebb.com.au/
Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/meganwebbcoaching/
Unwined Bookclub: https://www.alcoholfreedom.com.au/unwinedbookclub
ConnectAF group coaching: https://www.elizaparkinson.com/groupcoaching
BELLA
Web: https://isabellaferguson.com.au
Insta: @alcoholcounsellorisabella
Bi-Yearly 6-Week Small Group Challenges: Learn more: https://www.isabellaferguson.com.au/feb-2025-challenge
Free Do I Have A Drinking Problem 3 x Video Series: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/offers/JTFFgjJL/checkout
Free HOW DO I STOP DRINKING SO MUCH Masterclass: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/offers/7fvkb3FF/checkout
Online Alcohol Self-Paced Course: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/offers/fDzcyvWL/checkout...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm very excited because on the Not Drinking
Alcohol Today podcast we welcomeDonna Bennett.
Now Donna is celebrating fiveyears sober in April and reached
out to the pod because she'sbeen on a few pods, but they're
(00:20):
ones located overseas, and Donnafelt keen to spread the
alcohol-free love or, in herwords, pay it forward on an
Aussie podcast.
A huge welcome, Donna.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Thank you, bella.
It's so lovely to be here andmeet you visually as well.
Yeah, I've listened to you forquite a while now.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Oh, I love it and I've just opened up with that
concept of paying it forwardbecause it tends to be quite a
theme that runs through manypeople that have gone the mile,
gone the distance and have kindof made it to the other side and
when they remember how hard itwas in those early days, perhaps
(01:05):
never thought that they could.
So it is, with you know, greatgratitude to have somebody on
that has that in their hearts todo that.
Can I just ask as an opening,why is that important for you to
pay it forward?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Well, I remember when I was contemplating having a
break from alcohol, I starteddoing.
I was contemplating having abreak from alcohol.
I started doing some Googlingand I think other unknown people
that I'll never, know, helpedme and I want to be that for
other people, because I thinkthis community is very
(01:41):
supportive and encouraging andnon-judgmental, and I haven't
had that experience withanything else yeah um and I
think we all understand that.
You know we all started with dayone and we might all be on
different um journeys, butthere's a lot that we can take
from each other.
Yeah, I try to, even on mypersonal sort ofs.
(02:04):
I try and do a little bit therefor maybe that one person
that's struggling and too scaredlike I was to reach out to
anyone and I have had somepeople over the years reach out
to me and I've kept thatconfidential and I think talking
to someone with a livedexperience helps and there's
just no judgment.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
We're all just trying to do the best that we can at
any point in our lives and I'vealways had that desire to help
other people, like when I lookback in all my life and now and
so yeah, it gives me great joy.
So it's not sort of about hey,I'm awesome, I haven't had a
(02:45):
drink in nearly five years.
It's more like you know how canI, what I've gone through help
you.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, I will forever remember the people that did the
same for me as well.
Donna, for those listeners thatmight be wanting to know a bit
more about you.
Uh, who are you?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
um, I'm still working that out.
That's the great thing aboutthis journey I'm not finished
yet in the existential sense ofwho am I but?
Speaker 1 (03:20):
yeah yeah, give us an in a nutshell who you are and
and what role has alcohol playedin your life.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Oh, all right.
Well, yeah, my basic stats.
My name is Donna and I'm 57.
I live in Thirrull, nearWollongong in New South Wales.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Oh, beautiful.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
It is gorgeous, I love it, Love being by the beach
.
It is gorgeous, I love it, Lovebeing by the beach.
But I grew up in Melbourne so Ileft Melbourne.
I think in my mid-40s myhusband got a job in Perth so we
were there for a couple ofyears in Fremantle again really
close to the beach.
His job led us to New SouthWales and somebody told us about
(04:02):
this area and we just love it.
So we've been here about 12years.
We have an elderly rescue dogcalled Zach.
He's half lab and half corgi.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
So he looks like a lab.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
but he's on little legs.
He's 16 and a half Is he therewith you.
Yeah, he's just over there.
He's costing us a fortune, butyou know we love him to death,
um, basically, so we're lookingafter him and, yeah, 16 and a
half, so he's doing well.
Um, I have a new job in a newindustry.
(04:35):
That's been three months so I'mnow, uh, an office manager at a
local timber joinery.
Oh, good on you, donna.
I love it.
Yeah, 10 minutes from home,three and a half days a week,
and I feel like I manifestedthat job.
I was out of work for aboutfive months last year.
Yeah, my role was maderedundant, so I've worked with
(04:57):
lawyers most of my workingcareer.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Oh, apologies on behalf of all lawyers.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I'm a recovered one, yeah, yeah yeah, you've got a
lot to answer for when they sayanything at work.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
No, all lawyers out there, we love you, we love you?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, they're unique, let's put it that way.
No, I have lots of lawyerfriends.
I fell into personal injurywhen I moved to this state and
worked at plaintiff law firmsand became a paralegal yeah, wow
, and I went from basic sort ofpersonal injury, run-of-the-mill
(05:30):
stuff to abuse law.
So I've probably had eight ornine years of working with adult
survivors of childhoodinstitutional sexual abuse.
So pretty heavy.
But again, you know my want tohelp people and I think I had
something to contribute in thatarea.
But, yeah, my role was maderedundant in June last year and
(05:52):
it sort of gave me a chance tosit back and decide what I
really wanted to do, yeah.
And so, yeah, I got somecounselling and then I just took
some time out and so I decidedthat I wanted to get out of
legal, no offence lawyers andget something local to home
(06:14):
three to four days a week, andso I really feel like I
manifested it because it's athree and a half day role.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Oh, they are defined close to home.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
They weren't specific , but when I just sort of, I
think my honesty is unusualmaybe in some places.
But this employer, you know, Ithink I found my right fit,
because some employers sort oftalk the talk but don't walk the
walk, whereas these guys, youknow, they're very um,
(06:45):
considerate and, yeah, theylisten to what fit it into my
life oh well, congrats,congratulations.
Oh yeah, so good, I'm not lessstressful and I like learning
about something else and I'mstill contributing, but it's
more of a job instead ofbecoming sort of my identity, oh
yeah, yeah, that's aninteresting shift, yeah,
(07:07):
especially over through COVIDand working from home.
It was hard to switch off work.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Donna, do you mind me asking when you got that
counselling?
Was it career counselling tofind out?
Where it is you wanted to goand what you suited, because I
did the same and I found itwonderful and valuable, did you?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Well, it was through EAP.
My focus was you know where tonow?
You know, I'm late 50s and thisis pretty much all I know.
I had a former manager say tome who'd stepped away also from
that area and she said to meDonna, just because you're good
at something doesn't mean youshould be doing it, and that you
(07:51):
know.
And she was sort of encouragingme why don't you try and find
something totally different inyour area and just have a break?
And I really took that on boardand I took my time because
those jobs are hard to find andwhen I applied my husband's like
Tim you don't know anythingabout Tim I said well, it's an
(08:12):
admin-related job, I'm justhaving a crack.
And again, that's part of thisjourney You're not afraid to put
yourself out there.
What's the worst that canhappen?
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Having a crack?
What's the worst that canhappen, having a crack?
And the reason why I ask thosequestions is because I'm quite
well fascinated.
I hold in high respect, youknow women in our 50s who do a
life change or a pivot and youkeep going and you're always.
(08:43):
You know your purpose shiftsand I found it fascinating when
you said this job is not part ofyour identity but it's a job
that suits you, it suits me, youmoulded it to suit you.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Instead of me trying to fit in with everyone else,
I'm sort of looking at what'sgood for me and I'll always say
that, especially to young peoplegoing for a job and they're
like, oh, I really want to getit and this, and that I said you
know you're interviewing themas much as they're interviewing
you.
You know, is it the right fitfor you?
Is it what you want?
It's not all.
You know this people pleasingit's very hard to fall into Well
(09:19):
then bridging from that intothe topic of alcohol.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
In a sense, do you think being alcohol-free for
this length of time enabled youto have that clarity of mind, to
really deliberate on what yournext move was going to?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
be Definitely Whereas it may not have previously.
Oh no, and look immediately.
I went into a bit of a panicand I saw a job that had been
around for a little while and Igot, you know, probably the last
interview, and I'm therethinking what am I doing?
I don't even want this.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
And it wasn't offered to me because, you know, I
pretty much said, look, I don'twant to travel to Sydney five
days a week, I really only wantto work four days.
You know, I pretty much toldhim what I wanted, probably
knowing in the back of my headthat you know it's not great if
he wanted that job.
But again, that's when Ithought, you know what, I just
(10:17):
want to sit back and see.
And yeah, we weren't.
You know, we did have fundsthat we could rely on if we
needed to, my husband and I.
But yeah, it just gave me thattime to consider what I really
wanted and I'd catch up with,say, lawyer friends and they'd
(10:39):
be about you know their workloadand I'm like I just don't want
to go back, I feel like.
I'm feeling physically illthinking about going back
because the last job I had I hadpretty good file numbers as in
I could look after my clients.
But, I knew that most plaintifffirms are just loaded up and I
(11:04):
thought I don't want that.
You know, I want to actuallycontribute in a meaningful way
and if I've got too many clients, how can you make those
connections with them?
Speaker 1 (11:13):
yeah, it sounded like important work, but heavy work,
yeah, uh.
So I imagine there's a.
There's a story, your storyaround why you needed to make
the choice to take alcohol awayfrom your life.
What would you like to share onthat front?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Well, I guess alcohol is sneaky.
It sneaks up on us over theyears and it comes and goes, I
think, depending on what's goingon in your life.
Yeah, I didn't have children soI didn't you know, I haven't
had that mummy wine culture, butI've still been involved in the
ladies who do lunch kind ofculture, and daytime drinking
(12:00):
was really dangerous for me, ohyeah gosh.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Yeah, it has to be for most people.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yeah, I mean yeah, but I stuck with it.
I didn't really have any plans.
You know, my husband would saywhy don't you try and have a
water?
You know, one wine, one water,one wine, and the water would be
sitting there.
I'd have a sip and it would beover.
It's just wine, wine, more wine.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
And Donna had.
He said that because he couldnotice there was an escalation
or there was he could noticePoor Shane.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
He could tell you that's a whole other podcast
what it was like to live with methe drinker.
You know, even when I was sortof looking at well, taking a
break, basically that's all Ithought I was doing, I'm still
on that break he was like oh, Ijust wish you would drink less.
But people who don't have that,you know, I just don't have any
(12:59):
control over it.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
That off switch, the elixir off switch?
I don't think it's there.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
So I'm probably you know all or nothing.
Well, that's what I thought,and until I started reading
about what alcohol actually doesto us and the science behind it
, I mean, no one ever taught methat.
You know.
It started to make sense and ittook away a lot of the shame
and probably what I thought wasa personality flaw in myself.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I thought I'm not special.
I'm actually not special, afterall.
You know, there's heaps of meout there.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
It's such a lovely inclusive way of looking at it.
In fact, I was talking tosomebody in quite a similar way
yesterday.
You know, we were sort of goingdown what's wrong with me?
And I said, well, actually,what's wrong with this whole
bunch of us here?
That's part of this movement ormission to take alcohol off the
(13:58):
dominating agenda of our lives.
You know, the more numbers,more we see the numbers stacked
in our favour, the more you saywell, you know, we're not the
problem, are we?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, and especially women of a certain age, I mean
alcohol does affect usdifferently to men.
There's no doubt Our bodies aredifferent, for a start, and so
you know I was finding it hardto stay asleep.
That was a really big thing,yeah.
So if you don't get enoughsleep, you know I was finding it
hard to stay asleep that was areally big thing, yeah.
So if you don't get enough sleep, you know you don't recover and
(14:29):
you don't heal and you're tired.
You're just not running on allcylinders, and I guess that's
how I felt when I decided totake a break.
It was early.
Lockdown, so yeah, april 2020.
Lockdown, um, so yeah, april,uh, 2020.
(14:52):
And so I always thought otherpeople were the reason that I
drank a lot.
You know, because I I am asocial person.
I didn't start out like that.
I was a very quiet child, um,and when I started out with
alcohol, you know, I was veryquiet and then I found it made
me what I thought was funnier,or the version you thought you
needed to be the version thatperhaps I thought I should be,
(15:12):
and so you know that that becamemy identity, I guess, and I
slowly became the party girlyeah but um again, I don't
really need a drink to talk topeople either.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
So again it just became probably a habit.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I guess it comes with everything.
Alcohol comes pretty much witheverything and it's always there
.
But yeah, the lunchtimesessions I got into particular
problems, you know afterwardsbecause I'd probably kick on and
you know sometimes because I'dprobably keep going and you know
sometimes there'd be blackouts.
(15:50):
And so probably a month beforeI actually took that break in
April 2020, I was in Melbournefor two consecutive weekends and
a lot of the time when I wentback home to Melbourne it was
party time and so there wasalways a lot of alcohol and I'd
been out for lunch with somepeople and then I went out with
(16:10):
my cousin and I was staying ather place, and there's hours I
can't account for.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
And so the blackouts, they didn't happen all the time
.
That was pretty scary.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Was it frightening?
Yeah, I was going to say howfrightening is that?
If you're quite I still don'tknow.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I still don't know, probably don't want to know, it
doesn't matter, but you'realways imagining what could have
happened when you have no idea.
It reminded me of the 90s.
Sometimes I'd have blackoutsfor an hour here, an hour there.
Sometimes you'd put a fewthings together or some helpful
(16:45):
person would tell you what anidiot you were.
So, yeah, not a great feeling,and especially at 52, you know,
when am I going to grow up?
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, it loses its shine dramatically.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I just I was at home, I'd had four days off from work
, you know, for Easter, becausethat was Easter.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
And I was so looking forward to these four days
because I did have a prettystressful job and I felt more
tired at the end of Easter goingback to work and I thought,
what else can I do?
And it was like an epiphany, alight bulb moment.
I call it my Easter epiphany.
Um, and I thought, oh, maybe Icould just stop drinking, oh,
(17:33):
for a while.
Um, and it was both alien andboth quite logical, because I'd
never really thought about itbefore.
I'd probably had about threeother breaks from alcohol, but
not for any sort of long-termreason, and I thought well, I
(17:53):
won't be going out because we'reall locked in and it's a great
opportunity for me, because Ithought other people got me onto
it.
Basically, I mean, you wouldn'thave to twist my arm, you
wouldn't even have to touch myarm and I'd oh yeah, I'll have a
drink.
Yeah, sure, any day of the weekor whatever.
And I didn't drink every day.
But I don't think it's how muchyou drink, but why you're
(18:17):
drinking.
That's right, and I wouldn'thave even known back then.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, the same.
I wouldn't have known.
I didn't know why I was doingwhat I did, not to take over the
story, but I just love theconnections and the bits that
are similar.
You know, if ever I could sayto women you know, the two
drinking styles to take off theagenda would be lunchtime
(18:42):
drinking and home alone drinkingand then take it from there.
But COVID's a funny one.
COVID was good for those of uswho had already decided to stop
drinking because, you couldreally do the work if you wanted
to do the work and weren'tpulled outside.
But for those that weredrinkers it obviously went the
(19:03):
other way and stats for women ofour age group went through the
roof.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I think it was a Monday night and my husband was
like why are you drinking?
You know this is during thestart of COVID.
And I said, oh well, there wassome leftover from the weekend
or whatever, but he could see it, yes, and I think I didn't
think COVID was going to be abig thing and I thought, oh, you
(19:27):
know what I'll probably get.
I might not get COVID and die,but I might get liver disease
and put on 10 kilos if I keepdrinking like this.
So let's just have a break.
Never intending to quitdrinking, and I see on other
apps and forums that people arefreaking out thinking about
(19:50):
forever, and I think the greatthing for me was that I never
thought that, because yeah.
I was.
I guess I was sober curiouswithout knowing that term um at
the time it's a common theme inpeople that tend to have that
longevity.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Is that mindset of you?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
know how am I feeling today?
Pretty good, and then I sort ofwas on my own with it for about
six weeks and then I found theDaybreak app and my world just
opened up.
So how was that?
Speaker 1 (20:23):
an app that really worked for you, because I've
heard such good things.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
So great and I'm on it now and I try to give back on
that and if I have a shitty dayI'll post something and someone
will give me love.
Yeah, you know because, yeah,while I'm not going to pick up a
drink, I'm quite confident thatI'll never drink again.
I just can't see why I would.
Yeah, confident that I'll neverdrink again, I just can't see
(20:50):
why I would.
I can't think of any event inlife that would make me want to
pick up a glass of poison again.
I mean, that's how I have tolook at it.
I did a similar thing withcigarettes over 20 years ago.
I had to actually hate them.
That worked for me.
And, let's face it, they'reboth carcinogenic.
That's the truth.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
We had Dr Gina Cleo, a habit change expert, and she
similarly said if you can reallyvisualize this substance being
a poison, whether it's fuel,you're really telling yourself
that's petrol in a bottle.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
That can be a very handy tool for many people, yeah
yeah yeah, and I think that's agood one, yeah, and that worked
for me, because I think a lotof people go into this thinking
I'm going to miss out, I'm goingto be boring, they're looking
at all that negative stuff.
But if you can reframe that andthink, well, what opportunities
(21:49):
are out there for me now that Idon't drink, yeah, yeah.
Or that I'm having a break, youdon't have to put a timeframe
on it.
This is your life and youshould be the boss of your own
life.
And I guess I was trying to getback that control.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
But for whatever reason, alcohol ran away with it
.
And again it was the same withthe cigarettes and I think you
know that took me a long time.
The cigarettes.
I'd go back and forth, back andforth, back and forth, and I
can see people on the Daybreakapp doing the same and I thought
I don't need to try that.
I'm learning from them.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
It only takes one sip and they're back on it and it
would only take one drag of acigarette, so you must be quite
good, donna, tell me if I'mwrong at setting a goal and
formulating a bit of a planbased on what other people are
doing, what resources areavailable to you, with a pretty
(22:53):
good mindset, to get there.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I'd probably try and do that now.
I don't know that my life hasbeen like that.
I might have had moments, butyou know, a lot of my life I was
just I don't know, just aimlessand just, oh yeah, I'll go over
there now.
You know, I didn't really takea lot of control of my life.
(23:17):
I just sort of let it go.
I kind of felt like I was justfilling in time before I died,
which is pretty sad really.
I mean, in the depths of anykind of sadness in my life.
That's how I felt I was justfilling in time.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Feeling in time, and I think that would be a very
familiar feeling with lots ofwomen, donna, because we're
there to look out for othersoften.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, yeah.
And look, I still am thatperson, I will you know.
People say, gee, you're goodwith your friends.
I said, well, I was always areally good pen friend and so,
even though a lot of friends youknow you might have to reach
out remotely, I still try and Ido try and check in with people,
but I also recognise that youhave to look after yourself
(24:01):
first and health became.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
was it the primary reason?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I think health has become.
You know I've lost friends.
You know I lost my best friendin May 23 and you know that's 51
years of friendship that we had.
You know, my bestie and she gotbreast cancer.
We'd both turned 50 that yearand she got breast cancer.
(24:25):
And it could have been me, itcould have been any of us girls
that went to school together andwe kind of recognised that.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Oh God, I'm so sorry yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
So, you know, and there's actually, I think I had
a big 50th in Sydney and I had alot of people and there were
probably in the next few yearsthere were probably five people
from that party you know thatidentified, that got cancer and
(24:56):
two have passed away.
And so, yeah, late 2019 myhusband and I lost another
friend, the friend.
That actually is the reason thathe and I met and got together
so she was a great connector andthey said that at the funeral
one of the best funerals I'veever been to, and I, you know I
(25:17):
mean that sounds weird, but Iget it, you know it was very
much.
It was very Andrea and as itand as as it should have.
But she got pancreatic cancerand she had it for two years and
she didn't get to 50, justdidn't quite get there, and I
remember researching about thatparticular cancer, yeah, and so
(25:41):
obviously that, I think, planteda seed with me about.
You know, we're not immortal,we are all dying.
You know, once you're bornwe're all dying.
But it just made me sort ofwake up a little bit.
So there's a lot of littlethings that sort of add up too.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
No, matter which way you look at it, and most of us
in this modern age who are goingthrough peri or menopause but
have wellness, health, gooddiets, good exercise it's pretty
hard to throw alcohol at leastin large volumes of it in that
(26:22):
mix and think that it's notgoing to cancel out all of your
hard work.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
I know it's kind of.
I call it the Big Mac Diet Coketheory you know when people get
a Big Mac and oh, I'll get aDiet Coke, sort of kind of want
to balance the other out.
It's very true I used to worksomewhere where one of the
owners he liked to get on it andhe was always on the liver
(26:48):
cleansing tablet.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
And I think he just thought, if he did that, he
could drink every day to be okay, clean the liver and then tox
it up.
And I guess, whatever narrativeyou tell yourself, that's how
you live.
But I thought I had a prettyhealthy lifestyle, apart from
the drinking.
So I do all this good stuff andI felt like, oh, I'm moving two
, three steps forward and thenI'd have a drink.
(27:14):
Well, I wouldn't just have adrink, let's face it.
I think it's the equivalent ofwhat they say a binge.
I thought a binge was going outfor lunch and kicking on all
night.
I thought to me.
That was my definition of abinge, not four drinks in a
session.
That's right.
To me that's like that's prettynormal drinking.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah.
That's a really good point toemphasize here for listeners.
Yeah, that health World HealthOrganization guideline says no
more than 10 standard in a week,which has to be quite high, but
and no more than four in anyonesitting in.
And if you're above that you'rebinging.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Very dangerous.
I only found all thisinformation out after I quit,
and so, yeah, I wouldn't havewanted to know that when I was
drinking.
You know, it's just part of theprocess.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
I often think that too.
You know, when I ask thatquestion, what would you tell
the younger version of yourselfor the person going through that
no-transcript?
What would have changed thetrajectory?
Because I ended up in quite adire situation and I just don't
know Neither do I Would it havelanded?
I think there was just too muchstress in my life at that point
that I needed that solvedrather than the alcohol.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Different era.
You know I started drinking inthe 80s.
People were smoking in publicand smoking at our desks at work
and drinks every Friday night.
You know I got my drinkingcareer started at work as a
17-year-old.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
You know, on a Friday night I only needed one or two
and then someone had to walk meto the train station because I
was plastered.
But that was all part of thething.
You work hard, you play hard.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yeah, there's that phrase that defines the 80s.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yeah, and then that can carry on the 90s was a bit
more self-destructive.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, that's right, donna, because I've got I'm
lucky enough to have a guest inthis program who's got that
lovely nearly five years underher belt.
Can you talk to us about whatthe difference has been for you
in that first three monthsversus more than a year, versus
four years?
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah Well, the first three months, I mean.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Well, you and COVID yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, it was COVID and Sydney, so not for
Melbourneites.
Yeah, I'm Sydney-side Most ofmy friends are Melbourne and so
we'd see it see them allwhinging about it on social
media.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
It was horrible.
I hate Stan Andrews.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Like he created COVID .
But anyway, it's another story,and so we were pretty lucky.
So when you know, when some ofthe limitations were lifting
about, you could go out for acouple of hours or be with a
couple other people.
It was great for me because itwas a great little practice to
(29:55):
get out there, but I was nevergoing to stay out all night
because you're not allowed to.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
So it was.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
I couldn't have wished for a better kind of
situation.
I guess and I mean not that Iwish you know COVID happened Of
course not, but I guess it'slike anything making the best
out of a bad situation.
Yeah, yeah, and so it wasperfect for me because, you know
, I started going out for twohours and then I'd come home and
(30:23):
drive and I didn't have to payas much as everyone else.
Then I started catching on.
Oh, this group of people, theydon't actually really drink that
much yes, that's a light bulbmoment that's crazy.
I remember coming out with thesegirls I used to work with, and
there was probably six of them.
They ordered two bottles ofwine and then that was it.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
They sat on it.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Well, if I was drinking, I'd have to have a
third on my own and I'd probablywant another glass, and then
I'd probably come home and seewhat was here.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Me too.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Because it was hard for me to stop.
Yeah, and I didn't know it wassort of that anxiety already
kicking in.
Didn't even know that term backthen.
But yeah, I was anxious and Ihad to keep feeding the beast.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Feeding the beast?
Wow, that's exactly what it'slike.
Well, what was it like whenCOVID had lifted and then you're
back with your circle offriends and wine's again on the
table.
How did that?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
transition work.
I mean, I was determined and Ididn't ever.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
I actually didn't want to have a drink, that's
amazing.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, I couldn't say it was going to be forever.
And some people would say doyou think you'll drink again?
And I said, well, I'm actuallyfeeling so much better within
myself I can't work out why Iwould want to.
Yeah, much better within myself.
I can't work out why I wouldwant to, yeah.
Um, and again, you know myapprenticeship with this.
You know the cigarettes.
That was quite destructive formany years, yeah, but it did.
(31:54):
You know it has.
It has helped me realize thatyou've just got to push through,
because I did do the earlystages with the ciggies, over
and over and over there's thatconfidence, you could do it like
the equivalent of hormonalissues times 300%.
Like it would turn me into acrazy person and I just didn't
want to go back to that.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Donna, you mentioned that you had found a reflection
that you had written one yearsober.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Would you mind sharing that?
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yeah, yeah, sure, yeah.
So I found this because I dojournal.
Now you know it's taken a while, but I've always had an
interest in writing as well.
So and yeah, so I have got alot of stuff here and there and
yeah, so I have got a lot ofstuff here and there.
So, yeah, I found this titledOne Year Sober Reflections of a
(32:52):
Significant Milestone.
I haven't lost any friendships,I'm not boring, I'm funnier than
I thought I was, I can driveanytime, I don't eat as much
junk food, I'm six kilos lighterand my tummy apron disappeared
at week six.
I get hangry if I don't eat ontime.
(33:13):
My senses feel heightened, butthey're no longer numbed.
I actually know lots ofmoderate drinkers.
Most people don't care that Idon't drink.
I have increased my nonfictionreading.
I never want to stop learning.
I've spent 365 days experiencingevery feeling I've had.
(33:33):
I have found the comfortableinside the uncomfortable.
The bad, sad, anxious times dopass.
I am healthier, slimmer, fitterand fresher looking.
I'm empowered.
I've inspired and helped others.
I'm more confident.
At times I've enjoyed sayingwhatever the hell I've wanted to
(33:55):
inebriated people.
I found that a bit fun becausethey don't remember.
I now know when to leave aparty or social event.
I like who I am becoming.
I'm trying to clean up andimprove other aspects of my life
.
I'm calmer within.
I've wasted less money.
I have no purchasing guilt Atthis point.
(34:19):
I was looking forward to my newjob, which I've moved on a
couple of times, and COVID-19gave me the opportunity to try
to save myself.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Wow wow, I get all the feels listening to that.
Uh, donna, how does that feelfor you?
Speaker 2 (34:35):
yeah, it's um.
You know, they're all reallysimple things.
This is what I love about it.
I, I I'm living a much moresimple life, but I, I like it.
I don't.
I don't want the big highs orthe big lows.
You know, and and some mightlook at that and think, well,
that's a bit.
That sounds a bit boring, but Ithink I'm just finding the joy
(34:58):
in the simple stuff.
And I think a little while agothere was that nurse was on a
lot of podcasts about the thingsthat people regret when they're
on their deathbed.
Oh, I'm being perfect.
That was a great episode yeah,I actually haven't listened to
it, but I have heard it spokenabout before and it's never.
(35:18):
Oh, you know, I'm glad I went onthat holiday, or, you know, I
mean you have great memories oryou know that outfit that you
just had to buy, but it's reallyjust the simple stuff, the
people and the beings thatyou're going to miss.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Simple doesn't mean that it's any less richer.
In fact, it's more enrichedwith your presence.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah, I think so too.
So I have a lot of gratitudeand I don't mind being in my own
company.
I always thought I was anextrovert, but I am an introvert
, maybe an extroverted introvert.
I do like being with people,but I have to step away too.
I get overstimulated by somepeople and you know I'm much
(36:04):
better.
You know small groups andone-to-one now.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Me too, yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
So lots of learnings about myself and that you know I
didn't feel good about myselfand now I do.
You know I'm not perfect, butI'm proud of how I present in
the world and there are thingsthat I've done since getting
sober that I don't know, that Iwould have done had I still been
(36:32):
drinking.
Like what and who knows, Icould be dead had I not stopped.
Who knows?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
So last year I and it's something that I've thought
about before I kind of you know, like I said, I like to help
people.
I now I'm an intern still, butI'm with Lifeline and so I'm on
the phones, and so I startedthat training in early September
last year.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Donna, I too did that training five years ago.
Oh wow, and what a journey,what an experience.
Yeah, what a life changer.
Yeah, that's an amazingcontribution.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Yeah, and I'm only sort of.
I think I've had eight or ninesolos, uh, on the phone, so I'm
still oh, it's big stuff, it isbig stuff, um, but also, you
know, it sort of does help youlet go of that responsibility.
It's not for me to fix otherpeople, oh you're right, but I'm
there to, you know, forsomebody to talk to and perhaps
(37:38):
help empower themselves, becauseyou know, you know, I never
thought about it that way.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
It's, honestly, the most brilliant training for a
person learning to sit with thediscomfort of others and not
having to control the situationand let it go, but just to be a
constant support.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah, it is tough because you think you know
everyone wants to fix you know,and I'll have an issue and I'll
talk to my husband.
It's just a natural go-to.
They just want to fix your painor get rid of it, but sometimes
you just need to be heard hurtyeah um, and a lot of people
don't have that in their livesno only people out there.
They don't have what I have.
(38:21):
I have a great um network ofpeople, um, and I I'm okay to
sort of put up my hand and say Icould do with some counseling.
Or you know, after my friend um, or before she died actually,
and I could see that you knowshe wasn't going well, a few
people said to me oh, you don'thave any counselling, do you?
(38:42):
And I went okay, I've had threepeople say that to me.
Now I'm going to have some.
Yeah, and that really helped mebeyond her passing, because I
grew up not able to talk aboutor show my feelings.
You know, it's just the way Iwas brought up.
I guess I was a self-soother,so it's no surprise that I was
(39:05):
playing a part in my life.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
I was a self-soother too, with chocolate and sugar
first.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Yeah well, my thumb was my first, was my first
addiction and you know that handto mouth movement, yeah yeah,
yeah, yeah, that's true.
And then got the ciggies indeedyeah, um, yeah, didn't think
about that actually.
So, um, it all makes sense, butit is like you know.
I'm learning to forgive myyounger self for all the stupid
(39:33):
things that I did as well.
But you know, I lost my mum whenI was 21 and again, you don't
talk about your feelings, sohello you know and then I had
the marriage that you know I wastoo immature for and that broke
down and then I just it wasparty time and I thought that
(39:53):
gave me freedom.
I really thought alcohol gaveme freedom, but it's actually.
That's what I've got nowwithout it.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Yeah, yeah.
There's something about ourculture which really just
requires us to rush and move tothe next phase, the next thing,
the next thing, the next thing,that we're so distracted that
there's never a chance to pause.
And it sounds like COVID andalcohol off the agenda allowed
that a little bit and itcertainly did for me.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Yeah, and a fog lifts and you can see things clearer
and it is like getting some ofthose brain cells back.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
I guess the time has to be right, doesn't it?
It has to be right it does itdoes.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
And you couldn't have told me any of this.
And look this version of myselffive years ago.
I probably wouldn't have beenfriends with myself, you know,
and I've had.
You know, because most of myfriends are still in Melbourne.
It's kind of hard to knowwhether you know.
If I lived there I'd be gettinginvited to certain things.
(40:54):
But there came a point herewhere I thought, if I'm not
being invited, that's okay,because if you don't want me
there, I don't want to be thereeither.
You know, and it's sort of thatbit of confidence to say that's
okay, I've got other friends.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
It's great confidence .
Oh that emotional musclebuilding.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Yeah, I've made new friends that are sober or sober
curious, and some of them goback and forward and they
struggle, but our relationshipisn't dependent on whether they
drink or not.
I mean, I don't want to bearound pissy people, but that's
part of my freedom of going okay.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
I can choose.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
I've had a great time .
See you all next time I go homefor my cup of tea and cuddle my
dog and have a good night'ssleep, because you know, sleep
used to evade me for so long aswell.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Donna, I just have such great admiration.
I've loved sitting here,hearing just the way that you've
approached, giving up yourreflections on it.
I guess is there anything elseyou'd like to end on and, I
(42:05):
guess, separate to that.
You know, what would you say tosomebody out there that's in
your position five years ago,six years ago?
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yeah, look, I think some people think it's like
cutting off their right arm.
It's character building, it'schallenging.
You know, us humans, we don'twant to be uncomfortable.
We try, and, you know, let'stake a pill for this or that, or
you know, instead of sittingback and saying I don't actually
(42:41):
want to drink, but what is it?
There's something going on.
What am I feeling?
What else can I do to alleviatethat?
You know, I think a lot ofpeople, I have this theory that
we're basically scared ofourselves.
Yes, because that's how I feltabout me.
(43:03):
How can I be scared of myself?
It sounds so ridiculous now,but I think I was.
We don't want to go insidebecause it's scary, but it is
just us.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
I used to think I needed a few drinks to be around
a group of people, and I wasreflecting on this because I
almost had this fear about, um,how I would look, sound, behave,
just as myself that I would insome way push people away.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
so I had to kind of zhuzh myself up with a bit of
yeah, else A bit of pizzazz youknow be that person and now I
kind of love doing that withouta crutch because to me that is
the height of empowerment.
And I'm not saying I'm rude andstuff, but I think I'm still
(43:53):
funny.
I'm a lot sharper because ofdrinking.
You know, I've repeated myselfa lot and I'm sure I wasn't as
funny as the drunk me thoughtshe was.
But yeah, just a lot morecomfortable with myself and yeah
, I'd recommend it.
I'm not a big fan of the 30-dayalcohol-free.
(44:18):
I think 90 is a bare minimumbecause you've got to put
yourself through some challenges.
You can't just lock yourselfaway in a room for 30 days and,
you know, get on it on the firstof the next month.
It's not a true reflection ofhow I like 90 days.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
And alcohol free.
Yeah, a hundred days.
A hundred days A year.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Yeah, well, the thing is, you can always move the
goalposts, can't you?
You can say okay.
I'll do that, but I think justsit with it and be honest with
yourself and say how do I feelOnce you get past the actual um,
you know the cravings andthings that don't last forever,
and I think that's what peoplethink that it's going to be like
(45:01):
, like the first week or thefirst few weeks for 90 days or a
year.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
There's no way, it's just not, is that?
Speaker 2 (45:08):
It's not and it can't be.
It gets better.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Which is why your one year sober reflection was just
so beautiful, because it soundedlike there's a bit of shock.
I'm not bored, I'm still funny.
Yeah yeah, yeah, I just lovethat.
Being funny for me.
I love being funny, so it'svery important for me to still
be funny without alcohol.
Yeah, look, I just have lovedthis conversation, loved so many
(45:36):
takeaways and I know there willbe for many women out there.
Donna Bennett, thank you somuch for being on this podcast.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Thank you, Bella.
It was a pleasure talking toyou.
I'm a big fan.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Love it.
I'm very excited because on the Not Drinking
Alcohol Today podcast we welcomeDonna Bennett.
Now Donna is celebrating fiveyears sober in April and reached
out to the pod because she'sbeen on a few pods, but they're
(00:20):
ones located overseas, and Donnafelt keen to spread the
alcohol-free love or, in herwords, pay it forward on an
Aussie podcast.
A huge welcome, Donna.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Thank you, bella.
It's so lovely to be here andmeet you visually as well.
Yeah, I've listened to you forquite a while now.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Oh, I love it and I've just opened up with that
concept of paying it forwardbecause it tends to be quite a
theme that runs through manypeople that have gone the mile,
gone the distance and have kindof made it to the other side and
when they remember how hard itwas in those early days, perhaps
(01:05):
never thought that they could.
So it is, with you know, greatgratitude to have somebody on
that has that in their hearts todo that.
Can I just ask as an opening,why is that important for you to
pay it forward?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Well, I remember when I was contemplating having a
break from alcohol, I starteddoing.
I was contemplating having abreak from alcohol.
I started doing some Googlingand I think other unknown people
that I'll never, know, helpedme and I want to be that for
other people, because I thinkthis community is very
(01:41):
supportive and encouraging andnon-judgmental, and I haven't
had that experience withanything else yeah um and I
think we all understand that.
You know we all started with dayone and we might all be on
different um journeys, butthere's a lot that we can take
from each other.
Yeah, I try to, even on mypersonal sort ofs.
(02:04):
I try and do a little bit therefor maybe that one person
that's struggling and too scaredlike I was to reach out to
anyone and I have had somepeople over the years reach out
to me and I've kept thatconfidential and I think talking
to someone with a livedexperience helps and there's
just no judgment.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
We're all just trying to do the best that we can at
any point in our lives and I'vealways had that desire to help
other people, like when I lookback in all my life and now and
so yeah, it gives me great joy.
So it's not sort of about hey,I'm awesome, I haven't had a
(02:45):
drink in nearly five years.
It's more like you know how canI, what I've gone through help
you.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Yeah, I will forever remember the people that did the
same for me as well.
Donna, for those listeners thatmight be wanting to know a bit
more about you.
Uh, who are you?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
um, I'm still working that out.
That's the great thing aboutthis journey I'm not finished
yet in the existential sense ofwho am I but?
Speaker 1 (03:20):
yeah yeah, give us an in a nutshell who you are and
and what role has alcohol playedin your life.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Oh, all right.
Well, yeah, my basic stats.
My name is Donna and I'm 57.
I live in Thirrull, nearWollongong in New South Wales.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Oh, beautiful.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
It is gorgeous, I love it, Love being by the beach
.
It is gorgeous, I love it, Lovebeing by the beach.
But I grew up in Melbourne so Ileft Melbourne.
I think in my mid-40s myhusband got a job in Perth so we
were there for a couple ofyears in Fremantle again really
close to the beach.
His job led us to New SouthWales and somebody told us about
(04:02):
this area and we just love it.
So we've been here about 12years.
We have an elderly rescue dogcalled Zach.
He's half lab and half corgi.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
So he looks like a lab.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
but he's on little legs.
He's 16 and a half Is he therewith you.
Yeah, he's just over there.
He's costing us a fortune, butyou know we love him to death,
um, basically, so we're lookingafter him and, yeah, 16 and a
half, so he's doing well.
Um, I have a new job in a newindustry.
(04:35):
That's been three months so I'mnow, uh, an office manager at a
local timber joinery.
Oh, good on you, donna.
I love it.
Yeah, 10 minutes from home,three and a half days a week,
and I feel like I manifestedthat job.
I was out of work for aboutfive months last year.
Yeah, my role was maderedundant, so I've worked with
(04:57):
lawyers most of my workingcareer.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Oh, apologies on behalf of all lawyers.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
I'm a recovered one, yeah, yeah yeah, you've got a
lot to answer for when they sayanything at work.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
No, all lawyers out there, we love you, we love you?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah, they're unique, let's put it that way.
No, I have lots of lawyerfriends.
I fell into personal injurywhen I moved to this state and
worked at plaintiff law firmsand became a paralegal yeah, wow
, and I went from basic sort ofpersonal injury, run-of-the-mill
(05:30):
stuff to abuse law.
So I've probably had eight ornine years of working with adult
survivors of childhoodinstitutional sexual abuse.
So pretty heavy.
But again, you know my want tohelp people and I think I had
something to contribute in thatarea.
But, yeah, my role was maderedundant in June last year and
(05:52):
it sort of gave me a chance tosit back and decide what I
really wanted to do, yeah.
And so, yeah, I got somecounselling and then I just took
some time out and so I decidedthat I wanted to get out of
legal, no offence lawyers andget something local to home
(06:14):
three to four days a week, andso I really feel like I
manifested it because it's athree and a half day role.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Oh, they are defined close to home.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
They weren't specific , but when I just sort of, I
think my honesty is unusualmaybe in some places.
But this employer, you know, Ithink I found my right fit,
because some employers sort oftalk the talk but don't walk the
walk, whereas these guys, youknow, they're very um,
(06:45):
considerate and, yeah, theylisten to what fit it into my
life oh well, congrats,congratulations.
Oh yeah, so good, I'm not lessstressful and I like learning
about something else and I'mstill contributing, but it's
more of a job instead ofbecoming sort of my identity, oh
yeah, yeah, that's aninteresting shift, yeah,
(07:07):
especially over through COVIDand working from home.
It was hard to switch off work.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Donna, do you mind me asking when you got that
counselling?
Was it career counselling tofind out?
Where it is you wanted to goand what you suited, because I
did the same and I found itwonderful and valuable, did you?
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Well, it was through EAP.
My focus was you know where tonow?
You know, I'm late 50s and thisis pretty much all I know.
I had a former manager say tome who'd stepped away also from
that area and she said to meDonna, just because you're good
at something doesn't mean youshould be doing it, and that you
(07:51):
know.
And she was sort of encouragingme why don't you try and find
something totally different inyour area and just have a break?
And I really took that on boardand I took my time because
those jobs are hard to find andwhen I applied my husband's like
Tim you don't know anythingabout Tim I said well, it's an
(08:12):
admin-related job, I'm justhaving a crack.
And again, that's part of thisjourney You're not afraid to put
yourself out there.
What's the worst that canhappen?
Speaker 1 (08:20):
Having a crack?
What's the worst that canhappen, having a crack?
And the reason why I ask thosequestions is because I'm quite
well fascinated.
I hold in high respect, youknow women in our 50s who do a
life change or a pivot and youkeep going and you're always.
(08:43):
You know your purpose shiftsand I found it fascinating when
you said this job is not part ofyour identity but it's a job
that suits you, it suits me, youmoulded it to suit you.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Instead of me trying to fit in with everyone else,
I'm sort of looking at what'sgood for me and I'll always say
that, especially to young peoplegoing for a job and they're
like, oh, I really want to getit and this, and that I said you
know you're interviewing themas much as they're interviewing
you.
You know, is it the right fitfor you?
Is it what you want?
It's not all.
You know this people pleasingit's very hard to fall into Well
(09:19):
then bridging from that intothe topic of alcohol.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
In a sense, do you think being alcohol-free for
this length of time enabled youto have that clarity of mind, to
really deliberate on what yournext move was going to?
Speaker 2 (09:35):
be Definitely Whereas it may not have previously.
Oh no, and look immediately.
I went into a bit of a panicand I saw a job that had been
around for a little while and Igot, you know, probably the last
interview, and I'm therethinking what am I doing?
I don't even want this.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
And it wasn't offered to me because, you know, I
pretty much said, look, I don'twant to travel to Sydney five
days a week, I really only wantto work four days.
You know, I pretty much toldhim what I wanted, probably
knowing in the back of my headthat you know it's not great if
he wanted that job.
But again, that's when Ithought, you know what, I just
(10:17):
want to sit back and see.
And yeah, we weren't.
You know, we did have fundsthat we could rely on if we
needed to, my husband and I.
But yeah, it just gave me thattime to consider what I really
wanted and I'd catch up with,say, lawyer friends and they'd
(10:39):
be about you know their workloadand I'm like I just don't want
to go back, I feel like.
I'm feeling physically illthinking about going back
because the last job I had I hadpretty good file numbers as in
I could look after my clients.
But, I knew that most plaintifffirms are just loaded up and I
(11:04):
thought I don't want that.
You know, I want to actuallycontribute in a meaningful way
and if I've got too many clients, how can you make those
connections with them?
Speaker 1 (11:13):
yeah, it sounded like important work, but heavy work,
yeah, uh.
So I imagine there's a.
There's a story, your storyaround why you needed to make
the choice to take alcohol awayfrom your life.
What would you like to share onthat front?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Well, I guess alcohol is sneaky.
It sneaks up on us over theyears and it comes and goes, I
think, depending on what's goingon in your life.
Yeah, I didn't have children soI didn't you know, I haven't
had that mummy wine culture, butI've still been involved in the
ladies who do lunch kind ofculture, and daytime drinking
(12:00):
was really dangerous for me, ohyeah gosh.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Yeah, it has to be for most people.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Yeah, I mean yeah, but I stuck with it.
I didn't really have any plans.
You know, my husband would saywhy don't you try and have a
water?
You know, one wine, one water,one wine, and the water would be
sitting there.
I'd have a sip and it would beover.
It's just wine, wine, more wine.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
And Donna had.
He said that because he couldnotice there was an escalation
or there was he could noticePoor Shane.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
He could tell you that's a whole other podcast
what it was like to live with methe drinker.
You know, even when I was sortof looking at well, taking a
break, basically that's all Ithought I was doing, I'm still
on that break he was like oh, Ijust wish you would drink less.
But people who don't have that,you know, I just don't have any
(12:59):
control over it.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
That off switch, the elixir off switch?
I don't think it's there.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
So I'm probably you know all or nothing.
Well, that's what I thought,and until I started reading
about what alcohol actually doesto us and the science behind it
, I mean, no one ever taught methat.
You know.
It started to make sense and ittook away a lot of the shame
and probably what I thought wasa personality flaw in myself.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I thought I'm not special.
I'm actually not special, afterall.
You know, there's heaps of meout there.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
It's such a lovely inclusive way of looking at it.
In fact, I was talking tosomebody in quite a similar way
yesterday.
You know, we were sort of goingdown what's wrong with me?
And I said, well, actually,what's wrong with this whole
bunch of us here?
That's part of this movement ormission to take alcohol off the
(13:58):
dominating agenda of our lives.
You know, the more numbers,more we see the numbers stacked
in our favour, the more you saywell, you know, we're not the
problem, are we?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, and especially women of a certain age, I mean
alcohol does affect usdifferently to men.
There's no doubt Our bodies aredifferent, for a start, and so
you know I was finding it hardto stay asleep.
That was a really big thing,yeah.
So if you don't get enoughsleep, you know I was finding it
hard to stay asleep that was areally big thing, yeah.
So if you don't get enough sleep, you know you don't recover and
(14:29):
you don't heal and you're tired.
You're just not running on allcylinders, and I guess that's
how I felt when I decided totake a break.
It was early.
Lockdown, so yeah, april 2020.
Lockdown, um, so yeah, april,uh, 2020.
(14:52):
And so I always thought otherpeople were the reason that I
drank a lot.
You know, because I I am asocial person.
I didn't start out like that.
I was a very quiet child, um,and when I started out with
alcohol, you know, I was veryquiet and then I found it made
me what I thought was funnier,or the version you thought you
needed to be the version thatperhaps I thought I should be,
(15:12):
and so you know that that becamemy identity, I guess, and I
slowly became the party girlyeah but um again, I don't
really need a drink to talk topeople either.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
So again it just became probably a habit.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
I guess it comes with everything.
Alcohol comes pretty much witheverything and it's always there
.
But yeah, the lunchtimesessions I got into particular
problems, you know afterwardsbecause I'd probably kick on and
you know sometimes because I'dprobably keep going and you know
sometimes there'd be blackouts.
(15:50):
And so probably a month beforeI actually took that break in
April 2020, I was in Melbournefor two consecutive weekends and
a lot of the time when I wentback home to Melbourne it was
party time and so there wasalways a lot of alcohol and I'd
been out for lunch with somepeople and then I went out with
(16:10):
my cousin and I was staying ather place, and there's hours I
can't account for.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
And so the blackouts, they didn't happen all the time
.
That was pretty scary.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Was it frightening?
Yeah, I was going to say howfrightening is that?
If you're quite I still don'tknow.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
I still don't know, probably don't want to know, it
doesn't matter, but you'realways imagining what could have
happened when you have no idea.
It reminded me of the 90s.
Sometimes I'd have blackoutsfor an hour here, an hour there.
Sometimes you'd put a fewthings together or some helpful
(16:45):
person would tell you what anidiot you were.
So, yeah, not a great feeling,and especially at 52, you know,
when am I going to grow up?
Speaker 1 (16:59):
Yeah, it loses its shine dramatically.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
I just I was at home, I'd had four days off from work
, you know, for Easter, becausethat was Easter.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
And I was so looking forward to these four days
because I did have a prettystressful job and I felt more
tired at the end of Easter goingback to work and I thought,
what else can I do?
And it was like an epiphany, alight bulb moment.
I call it my Easter epiphany.
Um, and I thought, oh, maybe Icould just stop drinking, oh,
(17:33):
for a while.
Um, and it was both alien andboth quite logical, because I'd
never really thought about itbefore.
I'd probably had about threeother breaks from alcohol, but
not for any sort of long-termreason, and I thought well, I
(17:53):
won't be going out because we'reall locked in and it's a great
opportunity for me, because Ithought other people got me onto
it.
Basically, I mean, you wouldn'thave to twist my arm, you
wouldn't even have to touch myarm and I'd oh yeah, I'll have a
drink.
Yeah, sure, any day of the weekor whatever.
And I didn't drink every day.
But I don't think it's how muchyou drink, but why you're
(18:17):
drinking.
That's right, and I wouldn'thave even known back then.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, the same.
I wouldn't have known.
I didn't know why I was doingwhat I did, not to take over the
story, but I just love theconnections and the bits that
are similar.
You know, if ever I could sayto women you know, the two
drinking styles to take off theagenda would be lunchtime
(18:42):
drinking and home alone drinkingand then take it from there.
But COVID's a funny one.
COVID was good for those of uswho had already decided to stop
drinking because, you couldreally do the work if you wanted
to do the work and weren'tpulled outside.
But for those that weredrinkers it obviously went the
(19:03):
other way and stats for women ofour age group went through the
roof.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I think it was a Monday night and my husband was
like why are you drinking?
You know this is during thestart of COVID.
And I said, oh well, there wassome leftover from the weekend
or whatever, but he could see it, yes, and I think I didn't
think COVID was going to be abig thing and I thought, oh, you
(19:27):
know what I'll probably get.
I might not get COVID and die,but I might get liver disease
and put on 10 kilos if I keepdrinking like this.
So let's just have a break.
Never intending to quitdrinking, and I see on other
apps and forums that people arefreaking out thinking about
(19:50):
forever, and I think the greatthing for me was that I never
thought that, because yeah.
I was.
I guess I was sober curiouswithout knowing that term um at
the time it's a common theme inpeople that tend to have that
longevity.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Is that mindset of you?
Speaker 2 (20:08):
know how am I feeling today?
Pretty good, and then I sort ofwas on my own with it for about
six weeks and then I found theDaybreak app and my world just
opened up.
So how was that?
Speaker 1 (20:23):
an app that really worked for you, because I've
heard such good things.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
So great and I'm on it now and I try to give back on
that and if I have a shitty dayI'll post something and someone
will give me love.
Yeah, you know because, yeah,while I'm not going to pick up a
drink, I'm quite confident thatI'll never drink again.
I just can't see why I would.
Yeah, confident that I'll neverdrink again, I just can't see
(20:50):
why I would.
I can't think of any event inlife that would make me want to
pick up a glass of poison again.
I mean, that's how I have tolook at it.
I did a similar thing withcigarettes over 20 years ago.
I had to actually hate them.
That worked for me.
And, let's face it, they'reboth carcinogenic.
That's the truth.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
We had Dr Gina Cleo, a habit change expert, and she
similarly said if you can reallyvisualize this substance being
a poison, whether it's fuel,you're really telling yourself
that's petrol in a bottle.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
That can be a very handy tool for many people, yeah
yeah yeah, and I think that's agood one, yeah, and that worked
for me, because I think a lotof people go into this thinking
I'm going to miss out, I'm goingto be boring, they're looking
at all that negative stuff.
But if you can reframe that andthink, well, what opportunities
(21:49):
are out there for me now that Idon't drink, yeah, yeah.
Or that I'm having a break, youdon't have to put a timeframe
on it.
This is your life and youshould be the boss of your own
life.
And I guess I was trying to getback that control.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
But for whatever reason, alcohol ran away with it
.
And again it was the same withthe cigarettes and I think you
know that took me a long time.
The cigarettes.
I'd go back and forth, back andforth, back and forth, and I
can see people on the Daybreakapp doing the same and I thought
I don't need to try that.
I'm learning from them.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
It only takes one sip and they're back on it and it
would only take one drag of acigarette, so you must be quite
good, donna, tell me if I'mwrong at setting a goal and
formulating a bit of a planbased on what other people are
doing, what resources areavailable to you, with a pretty
(22:53):
good mindset, to get there.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I'd probably try and do that now.
I don't know that my life hasbeen like that.
I might have had moments, butyou know, a lot of my life I was
just I don't know, just aimlessand just, oh yeah, I'll go over
there now.
You know, I didn't really takea lot of control of my life.
(23:17):
I just sort of let it go.
I kind of felt like I was justfilling in time before I died,
which is pretty sad really.
I mean, in the depths of anykind of sadness in my life.
That's how I felt I was justfilling in time.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Feeling in time, and I think that would be a very
familiar feeling with lots ofwomen, donna, because we're
there to look out for othersoften.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Yeah, yeah.
And look, I still am thatperson, I will you know.
People say, gee, you're goodwith your friends.
I said, well, I was always areally good pen friend and so,
even though a lot of friends youknow you might have to reach
out remotely, I still try and Ido try and check in with people,
but I also recognise that youhave to look after yourself
(24:01):
first and health became.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
was it the primary reason?
Speaker 2 (24:05):
I think health has become.
You know I've lost friends.
You know I lost my best friendin May 23 and you know that's 51
years of friendship that we had.
You know, my bestie and she gotbreast cancer.
We'd both turned 50 that yearand she got breast cancer.
(24:25):
And it could have been me, itcould have been any of us girls
that went to school together andwe kind of recognised that.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Oh God, I'm so sorry yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
So, you know, and there's actually, I think I had
a big 50th in Sydney and I had alot of people and there were
probably in the next few yearsthere were probably five people
from that party you know thatidentified, that got cancer and
(24:56):
two have passed away.
And so, yeah, late 2019 myhusband and I lost another
friend, the friend.
That actually is the reason thathe and I met and got together
so she was a great connector andthey said that at the funeral
one of the best funerals I'veever been to, and I, you know I
(25:17):
mean that sounds weird, but Iget it, you know it was very
much.
It was very Andrea and as itand as as it should have.
But she got pancreatic cancerand she had it for two years and
she didn't get to 50, justdidn't quite get there, and I
remember researching about thatparticular cancer, yeah, and so
(25:41):
obviously that, I think, planteda seed with me about.
You know, we're not immortal,we are all dying.
You know, once you're bornwe're all dying.
But it just made me sort ofwake up a little bit.
So there's a lot of littlethings that sort of add up too.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
No, matter which way you look at it, and most of us
in this modern age who are goingthrough peri or menopause but
have wellness, health, gooddiets, good exercise it's pretty
hard to throw alcohol at leastin large volumes of it in that
(26:22):
mix and think that it's notgoing to cancel out all of your
hard work.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
I know it's kind of.
I call it the Big Mac Diet Coketheory you know when people get
a Big Mac and oh, I'll get aDiet Coke, sort of kind of want
to balance the other out.
It's very true I used to worksomewhere where one of the
owners he liked to get on it andhe was always on the liver
(26:48):
cleansing tablet.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
And I think he just thought, if he did that, he
could drink every day to be okay, clean the liver and then tox
it up.
And I guess, whatever narrativeyou tell yourself, that's how
you live.
But I thought I had a prettyhealthy lifestyle, apart from
the drinking.
So I do all this good stuff andI felt like, oh, I'm moving two
, three steps forward and thenI'd have a drink.
(27:14):
Well, I wouldn't just have adrink, let's face it.
I think it's the equivalent ofwhat they say a binge.
I thought a binge was going outfor lunch and kicking on all
night.
I thought to me.
That was my definition of abinge, not four drinks in a
session.
That's right.
To me that's like that's prettynormal drinking.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah.
That's a really good point toemphasize here for listeners.
Yeah, that health World HealthOrganization guideline says no
more than 10 standard in a week,which has to be quite high, but
and no more than four in anyonesitting in.
And if you're above that you'rebinging.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
Very dangerous.
I only found all thisinformation out after I quit,
and so, yeah, I wouldn't havewanted to know that when I was
drinking.
You know, it's just part of theprocess.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
I often think that too.
You know, when I ask thatquestion, what would you tell
the younger version of yourselfor the person going through that
no-transcript?
What would have changed thetrajectory?
Because I ended up in quite adire situation and I just don't
know Neither do I Would it havelanded?
I think there was just too muchstress in my life at that point
that I needed that solvedrather than the alcohol.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Different era.
You know I started drinking inthe 80s.
People were smoking in publicand smoking at our desks at work
and drinks every Friday night.
You know I got my drinkingcareer started at work as a
17-year-old.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
You know, on a Friday night I only needed one or two
and then someone had to walk meto the train station because I
was plastered.
But that was all part of thething.
You work hard, you play hard.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Yeah, there's that phrase that defines the 80s.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yeah, and then that can carry on the 90s was a bit
more self-destructive.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, that's right, donna, because I've got I'm
lucky enough to have a guest inthis program who's got that
lovely nearly five years underher belt.
Can you talk to us about whatthe difference has been for you
in that first three monthsversus more than a year, versus
four years?
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yeah Well, the first three months, I mean.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Well, you and COVID yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, it was COVID and Sydney, so not for
Melbourneites.
Yeah, I'm Sydney-side Most ofmy friends are Melbourne and so
we'd see it see them allwhinging about it on social
media.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
It was horrible.
I hate Stan Andrews.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Like he created COVID .
But anyway, it's another story,and so we were pretty lucky.
So when you know, when some ofthe limitations were lifting
about, you could go out for acouple of hours or be with a
couple other people.
It was great for me because itwas a great little practice to
(29:55):
get out there, but I was nevergoing to stay out all night
because you're not allowed to.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
So it was.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
I couldn't have wished for a better kind of
situation.
I guess and I mean not that Iwish you know COVID happened Of
course not, but I guess it'slike anything making the best
out of a bad situation.
Yeah, yeah, and so it wasperfect for me because, you know
, I started going out for twohours and then I'd come home and
(30:23):
drive and I didn't have to payas much as everyone else.
Then I started catching on.
Oh, this group of people, theydon't actually really drink that
much yes, that's a light bulbmoment that's crazy.
I remember coming out with thesegirls I used to work with, and
there was probably six of them.
They ordered two bottles ofwine and then that was it.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
They sat on it.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
Well, if I was drinking, I'd have to have a
third on my own and I'd probablywant another glass, and then
I'd probably come home and seewhat was here.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Me too.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Because it was hard for me to stop.
Yeah, and I didn't know it wassort of that anxiety already
kicking in.
Didn't even know that term backthen.
But yeah, I was anxious and Ihad to keep feeding the beast.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Feeding the beast?
Wow, that's exactly what it'slike.
Well, what was it like whenCOVID had lifted and then you're
back with your circle offriends and wine's again on the
table.
How did that?
Speaker 2 (31:19):
transition work.
I mean, I was determined and Ididn't ever.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
I actually didn't want to have a drink, that's
amazing.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, I couldn't say it was going to be forever.
And some people would say doyou think you'll drink again?
And I said, well, I'm actuallyfeeling so much better within
myself I can't work out why Iwould want to.
Yeah, much better within myself.
I can't work out why I wouldwant to, yeah.
Um, and again, you know myapprenticeship with this.
You know the cigarettes.
That was quite destructive formany years, yeah, but it did.
(31:54):
You know it has.
It has helped me realize thatyou've just got to push through,
because I did do the earlystages with the ciggies, over
and over and over there's thatconfidence, you could do it like
the equivalent of hormonalissues times 300%.
Like it would turn me into acrazy person and I just didn't
want to go back to that.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Donna, you mentioned that you had found a reflection
that you had written one yearsober.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Would you mind sharing that?
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Yeah, yeah, sure, yeah.
So I found this because I dojournal.
Now you know it's taken a while, but I've always had an
interest in writing as well.
So and yeah, so I have got alot of stuff here and there and
yeah, so I have got a lot ofstuff here and there.
So, yeah, I found this titledOne Year Sober Reflections of a
(32:52):
Significant Milestone.
I haven't lost any friendships,I'm not boring, I'm funnier than
I thought I was, I can driveanytime, I don't eat as much
junk food, I'm six kilos lighterand my tummy apron disappeared
at week six.
I get hangry if I don't eat ontime.
(33:13):
My senses feel heightened, butthey're no longer numbed.
I actually know lots ofmoderate drinkers.
Most people don't care that Idon't drink.
I have increased my nonfictionreading.
I never want to stop learning.
I've spent 365 days experiencingevery feeling I've had.
(33:33):
I have found the comfortableinside the uncomfortable.
The bad, sad, anxious times dopass.
I am healthier, slimmer, fitterand fresher looking.
I'm empowered.
I've inspired and helped others.
I'm more confident.
At times I've enjoyed sayingwhatever the hell I've wanted to
(33:55):
inebriated people.
I found that a bit fun becausethey don't remember.
I now know when to leave aparty or social event.
I like who I am becoming.
I'm trying to clean up andimprove other aspects of my life
.
I'm calmer within.
I've wasted less money.
I have no purchasing guilt Atthis point.
(34:19):
I was looking forward to my newjob, which I've moved on a
couple of times, and COVID-19gave me the opportunity to try
to save myself.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
Wow wow, I get all the feels listening to that.
Uh, donna, how does that feelfor you?
Speaker 2 (34:35):
yeah, it's um.
You know, they're all reallysimple things.
This is what I love about it.
I, I I'm living a much moresimple life, but I, I like it.
I don't.
I don't want the big highs orthe big lows.
You know, and and some mightlook at that and think, well,
that's a bit.
That sounds a bit boring, but Ithink I'm just finding the joy
(34:58):
in the simple stuff.
And I think a little while agothere was that nurse was on a
lot of podcasts about the thingsthat people regret when they're
on their deathbed.
Oh, I'm being perfect.
That was a great episode yeah,I actually haven't listened to
it, but I have heard it spokenabout before and it's never.
(35:18):
Oh, you know, I'm glad I went onthat holiday, or, you know, I
mean you have great memories oryou know that outfit that you
just had to buy, but it's reallyjust the simple stuff, the
people and the beings thatyou're going to miss.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Simple doesn't mean that it's any less richer.
In fact, it's more enrichedwith your presence.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Yeah, I think so too.
So I have a lot of gratitudeand I don't mind being in my own
company.
I always thought I was anextrovert, but I am an introvert
, maybe an extroverted introvert.
I do like being with people,but I have to step away too.
I get overstimulated by somepeople and you know I'm much
(36:04):
better.
You know small groups andone-to-one now.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Me too, yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (36:10):
So lots of learnings about myself and that you know I
didn't feel good about myselfand now I do.
You know I'm not perfect, butI'm proud of how I present in
the world and there are thingsthat I've done since getting
sober that I don't know, that Iwould have done had I still been
(36:32):
drinking.
Like what and who knows, Icould be dead had I not stopped.
Who knows?
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
So last year I and it's something that I've thought
about before I kind of you know, like I said, I like to help
people.
I now I'm an intern still, butI'm with Lifeline and so I'm on
the phones, and so I startedthat training in early September
last year.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
Donna, I too did that training five years ago.
Oh wow, and what a journey,what an experience.
Yeah, what a life changer.
Yeah, that's an amazingcontribution.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Yeah, and I'm only sort of.
I think I've had eight or ninesolos, uh, on the phone, so I'm
still oh, it's big stuff, it isbig stuff, um, but also, you
know, it sort of does help youlet go of that responsibility.
It's not for me to fix otherpeople, oh you're right, but I'm
there to, you know, forsomebody to talk to and perhaps
(37:38):
help empower themselves, becauseyou know, you know, I never
thought about it that way.
Speaker 1 (37:45):
It's, honestly, the most brilliant training for a
person learning to sit with thediscomfort of others and not
having to control the situationand let it go, but just to be a
constant support.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Yeah, it is tough because you think you know
everyone wants to fix you know,and I'll have an issue and I'll
talk to my husband.
It's just a natural go-to.
They just want to fix your painor get rid of it, but sometimes
you just need to be heard hurtyeah um, and a lot of people
don't have that in their livesno only people out there.
They don't have what I have.
(38:21):
I have a great um network ofpeople, um, and I I'm okay to
sort of put up my hand and say Icould do with some counseling.
Or you know, after my friend um, or before she died actually,
and I could see that you knowshe wasn't going well, a few
people said to me oh, you don'thave any counselling, do you?
(38:42):
And I went okay, I've had threepeople say that to me.
Now I'm going to have some.
Yeah, and that really helped mebeyond her passing, because I
grew up not able to talk aboutor show my feelings.
You know, it's just the way Iwas brought up.
I guess I was a self-soother,so it's no surprise that I was
(39:05):
playing a part in my life.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
I was a self-soother too, with chocolate and sugar
first.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
Yeah well, my thumb was my first, was my first
addiction and you know that handto mouth movement, yeah yeah,
yeah, yeah, that's true.
And then got the ciggies indeedyeah, um, yeah, didn't think
about that actually.
So, um, it all makes sense, butit is like you know.
I'm learning to forgive myyounger self for all the stupid
(39:33):
things that I did as well.
But you know, I lost my mum whenI was 21 and again, you don't
talk about your feelings, sohello you know and then I had
the marriage that you know I wastoo immature for and that broke
down and then I just it wasparty time and I thought that
(39:53):
gave me freedom.
I really thought alcohol gaveme freedom, but it's actually.
That's what I've got nowwithout it.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
Yeah, yeah.
There's something about ourculture which really just
requires us to rush and move tothe next phase, the next thing,
the next thing, the next thing,that we're so distracted that
there's never a chance to pause.
And it sounds like COVID andalcohol off the agenda allowed
that a little bit and itcertainly did for me.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Yeah, and a fog lifts and you can see things clearer
and it is like getting some ofthose brain cells back.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
I guess the time has to be right, doesn't it?
It has to be right it does itdoes.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
And you couldn't have told me any of this.
And look this version of myselffive years ago.
I probably wouldn't have beenfriends with myself, you know,
and I've had.
You know, because most of myfriends are still in Melbourne.
It's kind of hard to knowwhether you know.
If I lived there I'd be gettinginvited to certain things.
(40:54):
But there came a point herewhere I thought, if I'm not
being invited, that's okay,because if you don't want me
there, I don't want to be thereeither.
You know, and it's sort of thatbit of confidence to say that's
okay, I've got other friends.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
It's great confidence .
Oh that emotional musclebuilding.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Yeah, I've made new friends that are sober or sober
curious, and some of them goback and forward and they
struggle, but our relationshipisn't dependent on whether they
drink or not.
I mean, I don't want to bearound pissy people, but that's
part of my freedom of going okay.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
I can choose.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
I've had a great time .
See you all next time I go homefor my cup of tea and cuddle my
dog and have a good night'ssleep, because you know, sleep
used to evade me for so long aswell.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Donna, I just have such great admiration.
I've loved sitting here,hearing just the way that you've
approached, giving up yourreflections on it.
I guess is there anything elseyou'd like to end on and, I
(42:05):
guess, separate to that.
You know, what would you say tosomebody out there that's in
your position five years ago,six years ago?
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yeah, look, I think some people think it's like
cutting off their right arm.
It's character building, it'schallenging.
You know, us humans, we don'twant to be uncomfortable.
We try, and, you know, let'stake a pill for this or that, or
you know, instead of sittingback and saying I don't actually
(42:41):
want to drink, but what is it?
There's something going on.
What am I feeling?
What else can I do to alleviatethat?
You know, I think a lot ofpeople, I have this theory that
we're basically scared ofourselves.
Yes, because that's how I feltabout me.
(43:03):
How can I be scared of myself?
It sounds so ridiculous now,but I think I was.
We don't want to go insidebecause it's scary, but it is
just us.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
I used to think I needed a few drinks to be around
a group of people, and I wasreflecting on this because I
almost had this fear about, um,how I would look, sound, behave,
just as myself that I would insome way push people away.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
so I had to kind of zhuzh myself up with a bit of
yeah, else A bit of pizzazz youknow be that person and now I
kind of love doing that withouta crutch because to me that is
the height of empowerment.
And I'm not saying I'm rude andstuff, but I think I'm still
(43:53):
funny.
I'm a lot sharper because ofdrinking.
You know, I've repeated myselfa lot and I'm sure I wasn't as
funny as the drunk me thoughtshe was.
But yeah, just a lot morecomfortable with myself and yeah
, I'd recommend it.
I'm not a big fan of the 30-dayalcohol-free.
(44:18):
I think 90 is a bare minimumbecause you've got to put
yourself through some challenges.
You can't just lock yourselfaway in a room for 30 days and,
you know, get on it on the firstof the next month.
It's not a true reflection ofhow I like 90 days.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
And alcohol free.
Yeah, a hundred days.
A hundred days A year.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Yeah, well, the thing is, you can always move the
goalposts, can't you?
You can say okay.
I'll do that, but I think justsit with it and be honest with
yourself and say how do I feelOnce you get past the actual um,
you know the cravings andthings that don't last forever,
and I think that's what peoplethink that it's going to be like
(45:01):
, like the first week or thefirst few weeks for 90 days or a
year.
Speaker 1 (45:06):
There's no way, it's just not, is that?
Speaker 2 (45:08):
It's not and it can't be.
It gets better.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
Which is why your one year sober reflection was just
so beautiful, because it soundedlike there's a bit of shock.
I'm not bored, I'm still funny.
Yeah yeah, yeah, I just lovethat.
Being funny for me.
I love being funny, so it'svery important for me to still
be funny without alcohol.
Yeah, look, I just have lovedthis conversation, loved so many
(45:36):
takeaways and I know there willbe for many women out there.
Donna Bennett, thank you somuch for being on this podcast.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Thank you, Bella.
It was a pleasure talking toyou.
I'm a big fan.
Speaker 1 (45:50):
Love it.
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