February 8, 2025 • 34 mins
What if breaking free from alcohol could lead to a deeper connection with yourself and others? Join us for a powerful conversation with Rina, a fellow Naked Mind coach, who shares her inspiring journey of quitting alcohol independently before discovering the transformative power of community support. We explore how she initially struggled with emotions and irritability despite the benefits of an alcohol-free life, and how finding a support network during her coach training became a pivotal moment. This episode is packed with insights into the dual necessity of personal effort and communal support in overcoming addiction and achieving lasting change.
Rina candidly reflects on the biochemical parallels between the dopamine-driven rewards of alcohol and the oxytocin-fueled rewards of genuine human connection. Through heartfelt anecdotes, we uncover the profound sense of self-rediscovery that emerges from forming authentic relationships within a supportive community. Listen in as we introduce "Unwined," a passion project designed to nurture ongoing learning and personal development post-alcohol. Embrace past struggles as a source of growth and gratitude, and learn how to leverage community support in tackling life's challenges—from grief to parenting—with renewed perspective and strength.
Rina:
Unwined bookclub: https://www.alcoholfreedom.com.au/unwinedbookclub
Rina's website: https://www.alcoholfreedom.com.au/
MEG
Web: https://www.meganwebb.com.au/
Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/meganwebbcoaching/
Unwined Bookclub: https://www.alcoholfreedom.com.au/unwinedbookclub
ConnectAF group coaching: https://www.elizaparkinson.com/groupcoaching
BELLA
Web: https://isabellaferguson.com.au
Insta: @alcoholcounsellorisabella
Bi-Yearly 6-Week Small Group Challenges: Learn more: https://www.isabellaferguson.com.au/feb-2025-challenge
Free Do I Have A Drinking Problem 3 x Video Series: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/offers/JTFFgjJL/checkout
Free HOW DO I STOP DRINKING SO MUCH Masterclass: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/offers/7fvkb3FF/checkout
Online Alcohol Self-Paced Course: https://resources.isabellaferguson.com.au/offers/fDzcyvWL/checkout...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey everyone, how you going?
I'm so excited today to have myfriend Reena on.
Reena has been on before so youcan go back and listen to her
story, but Reena's a fellow thisNaked Mind coach and we live
near each other.
Welcome, reena.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Thank you, Meg.
So nice to be back chatting toyou.
Thank you so much for having meon.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
It's so good to have you here, so Reena and I we get
together for coffee sometime.
It's so good to have someoneclose by, and that's kind of the
topic we're going to talk abouttoday is the community.
Last time I saw Reena, we weretalking about the new book by
Laura McCowan which is Push Offfrom here and there is a chapter
(00:45):
called you can't do it alone.
The next chapter on from thatis only you can do it.
But we were talking about theyou can't do it alone bit and it
was a really interestingconversation so we thought we'd
bring it to the pod.
And, Rena, you were talkingabout when you gave up and you
didn't have that communitysupport.
So I thought we could start bytalking about when you gave up
and you didn't have thatcommunity support.
So I thought we could start bytalking about that.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
That's so great.
Yeah, I definitely learned this, this one, the hard way.
You know, looking back, I was,I was always very independent,
and that's a really great thing.
Until it isn't, you know, Istopped drinking just by reading
Annie's book.
You know, which was amazing,and I'll preface that by saying,
(01:32):
of course, before that therewas years of trying and stopping
and doing different things, andthen, I think, when I was ready
and I found this book at theright time, then it just all
came together and it was great.
You know, like so many goodthings happened after I stopped.
(01:52):
There were so many.
I was kind of like on thislittle bit of a just a high, of
just being so grateful that Iwasn't drinking anymore.
I was feeling better, I wassleeping better, my anxiety was
better.
All of these amazing thingsstarted happening.
And there was also some thingsthat were really difficult, you
(02:13):
know.
I started to realize, because mymain reason for wanting to stop
drinking was because I noticedthat I wasn't being the mom that
I wanted to be with my kids.
I was tired, I was cranky, Iwas impatient, I was irritable,
and those things didn't go awaywhen I stopped drinking.
(02:35):
In fact, they got a little bitworse initially, because now I
had all these emotions and theseexperiences and I had no idea
what to do with them and I wasjust with them and I didn't at
that time.
I was just doing it by myself.
I didn't have a community, Ididn't have people that I was
(02:56):
talking to.
I was reading a lot of quitlet,so I was listening to other
people's stories, which I thinkhelped a little bit, was
listening to other people'sstories, which I think helped a
little bit, but I really didn'thave anybody that I was sharing
what I was going through oranything like that.
And after a while you know, itwas about maybe between six and
(03:18):
12 months into being alcoholfree I realized that I was still
in that place of feeling stillreally irritable and easily
frustrated and easily angered.
And it's almost like I gotstuck in a rut with that,
because it's very similar to thealcohol, where you get angry
(03:40):
and irritable and then you reactin a certain way and then you
feel guilty for how you'vereacted and then you kind of
beat yourself up a little bitand then next minute you're just
doing the same thing again andI was like I could not see
passes.
I was just like what is goingon.
I stopped drinking.
Why aren't I happy?
(04:02):
Why am I not, you know, likepatient?
Why am I not, you know, livingthe?
You know being the person thatI wanted to be?
And, at the same time, I hadthis inkling that I needed to
speak to people, that I neededto, um, you know, find my people
(04:27):
that I can speak to with this,because I was still even with my
friend groups.
Everybody was still drinking.
Um it, we weren't talking about, you know, the real life issues
behind drinking or anythinglike that.
So I haven't wasn't havingthese real conversations, and it
wasn't actually until then Istarted to do the coach training
(04:48):
, where I got my first glimpseof community.
Yes, and it was incredible,like it changed everything for
me.
All of a sudden, here we werein this space where we had this
communal experience of havingnavigated through alcohol and
(05:10):
addiction and we were sharingour stories and we were actually
had this beautiful space whereyou could just actually, but you
know, in a way, that you're notjust sharing, you're actually
learning from each other andfrom your own experience and
(05:30):
seeing how that impacts you nowand deciding how you want to go
forward.
And it was so empowering.
It was so incredible I wouldn'tsay it was easy.
It was like the training.
There was like months where Iwas so I was processing all
these things that were coming up.
(05:51):
As I started to recognize mynegative thinking, you know, I
was like, oh, I have a lot of nowonder I'm still irritable.
I have a lot of really negative, repetitive thinking going on
all the time and there's a lotof emotion that comes with that,
(06:12):
like no wonder I'm feeling likethis.
And it wasn't like.
It is like shifted and changed.
It was like this process.
I remember like I could feel itin my body, you know, just like
so tense, like my back wastense, like everything in my
body was like sore.
It was like a lot of emotionalprocessing.
But I had this beautiful safespace in this community and I
(06:34):
remember this particular onecall that we had, where and this
is the thing that showed mejust how powerful it is to learn
from other people's experiences, because we are so in the dark
sometimes about our ownexperience there's so much in
our own experience that we don'tunderstand or we just don't see
about ourselves.
This fascinates me right.
(06:55):
So we're on this call and thisother coach in training, was
sharing her experience withpostpartum depression and how it
kind of was extended throughyears, how she hadn't realized
it was maybe just like sixmonths or a year after giving
birth, but like 10 years latershe was still dealing with it
(07:18):
and through this beautiful sharelike a penny just dropped for
me, like I just so crystal clearcould see my experience in her
share and I was like, oh my gosh, like I had been going through
(07:39):
this same thing.
I could hear exactly myexperience and how she was
overwhelmed, how she didn't wantto get out of bed, how it
manifested as kind of sometimesit's like anger, because anger
is this kind of fuel that atleast you're then doing
something.
You know, and I just heard somuch in that experience and what
(08:03):
happened is that I started tobe able to see and understand
that experience in a completelydifferent light.
So, instead of just trying tofix it and trying to get out of
that cycle of like just show updifferently, I started to
actually understand why I wasfeeling that way for such a long
(08:24):
time, why I was my drinkingescalated so much after that
time.
You know why I was sooverwhelmed, why I was
struggling so many days.
And just that understandingstarted to shift so much because
I started to get this level oflike compassion with myself,
(08:44):
like, oh my gosh, I think I'vebeen dealing with postpartum
depression.
It was then up, you know, likemy my boy was six or seven years
old, so, you know, like sevenyears, and I don't think I've
ever recovered from that.
It just like it wasn't so muchthe label, it was more just that
(09:07):
, that, um, articulation of anexperience and having context
around it, that shifted so muchfor me.
And from then things reallystarted to change quickly.
You know when I could start tounderstand that, yeah, I'd I'd
been having these recurringthoughts, these recurring
(09:27):
experiences and, and you know,through so much, so much else in
community as well, where you,where you hear from other
people's experience how they getthrough that, the things that
they try, you know, um, thedifferent tools that there are
to use.
That all came through communityand and that space to just talk
(09:50):
about it.
There is something that happens.
It's, you know, and I stillcan't really get my head around
why this is, but there issomething so amazing that
happens when you just talk aboutwhat is going on from for you,
from this really, um, from thisspace of just you know, there's
(10:11):
nothing to kind of fix, you'rejust kind of sharing.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
And for somebody else to just have that space where
you know you're not going to bejudged or or where you're not
going to be um, belittled or orthought badly of for anything,
(10:37):
but you're just sharing andsomething just happens where you
start to kind of like, see yourexperiences from a different
perspective, where you start tohave compassion for yourself,
and then you connect with otherpeople who go through the same
thing and they're like, oh, thathappened to me as well, like
what, you know?
You just don't think that thatyou feel so alone sometimes when
(10:59):
you go through these things,and there is sometimes so much
shame involved that you justfeel like especially with the
mum thing, you know you justfeel like everybody else has got
it together.
Everybody else is managing fineI should be managing fine.
Everybody else is juggling allthe balls and they're not
(11:20):
letting the balls fall, and itmakes you feel so alone and it
makes you feel so justunconnected.
Yeah.
And then, when you get to thesespaces where actually people
are like me too and I'vestruggled with that too, yes, I,
(11:41):
you know, I also.
You know life's not perfect.
After you give let go ofalcohol.
There's just so still so manychallenges.
And just to hear that and tokind of navigate that together.
That is huge, you know.
And then, even even now, like I,I like my circle, then just
(12:03):
continue to expand from there.
You know, it's first thecoaches and training, and then
the different communities thatwe get connected to, and then
the people that you getconnected to when you're
coaching as well, and that's, um, you know how you and I met as
well, megs, and it's it's sointeresting that that now, at
(12:25):
any given moment, I have about10 people that I could call if
I'm going through a tough time.
You know, and that is such adifferent experience from like
six, seven years ago, where Ididn't feel like I really had
anybody to call if I was havinga hard day or if I was going
(12:48):
through a tough time, orsomebody really to speak to.
And I tell you, that makes sucha world of difference.
It really does.
You know, it's something thatI'm always encouraging people to
do, even after they doone-on-one coaching.
It's like, okay, well, well,where are you going to be
connected to after this?
Because that's so important.
(13:09):
Letting going of letting go ofalcohol is just the, the, the
first step.
It's like a massive, pivotalstep which makes everything else
possible, but it's also justthe first step.
And then you know you're goingto navigate life with all its
ups and downs, and and to beconnected to community while
you're going through.
(13:29):
That, I think, is just soessential.
So, as I don't know actuallywhere I would have been now if,
if I hadn't had that, yeah, yeah, oh.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I just it sounds so much like my experience as well.
Like, what do they say?
Connection is the opposite ofaddiction, and that's what
you're saying and that's beenproven by both of us.
I was the same when I initiallystopped drinking.
I did the podcast.
No, I didn't do the podcast, Ilistened to the podcasts, I read
(14:05):
the Quitlet and that wasfantastic, but it wasn't enough.
So then I joined an online groupthis is like six or seven years
, six years ago, so there wasn'tas much out there but it was by
someone, an Australian calledRebecca Weller, and it was a 90
day program.
It wasn't connecting with otherpeople, but I knew I wasn't
alone because it was a dailyactivity or whatever it was.
(14:27):
And then I actually tried AAand the community was what I
loved.
That's when I realized I needcommunity.
It didn't work out for melong-term and when I stopped it
after four months I actuallywent back to drinking and I
recognized that I can't do thison my own, like Laura McCowan
says.
And then I found this nakedmind and did the coaching
(14:50):
training.
Rita and I were in differentcohorts, but, oh my gosh, it
just opened up a new world forme as well, and I think what
you're saying you know, knowingthat you're not alone.
So there are groups that youcan find for everything these
days, like I don't even know how, like my mum, like as a parent,
as a mother, you know, nowadayswe've got mother's groups,
(15:11):
we've got blogs, so you knowyou're not alone.
And 19 years ago, my middledaughter, I found an online mum
community and that helped me.
You know, that was amazingbecause we all had something in
common and if you have anillness, there are support
groups, like diabetes or cancer,because only the people that
(15:33):
are going through it really getit, and that's what we found
here as well.
So it's a universal thing andjust knowing you're not alone
and also just connecting soquickly, because we have this
one big thing in common, and MelRobbins talks about the three
pillars of friendship and one ofthem is timing, and that's kind
of the timing for all of us onthis journey.
(15:55):
That's connected us.
And then the common thing wherewe feel, like you said, you've
developed self-compassion.
You know, the shame disappearedfor me when I met people who
were going through the samething and, like you said, you
did not even you didn't realizeyou had postnatal depression, we
self-medicated, we tried tohelp ourselves with alcohol, you
(16:20):
know.
So we've all got that in common.
And then we meet other peopleand and, and it has taken work
like it does take work, butdoing it in a community to me
has never felt like work yeah,that is so true, it's it.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
It takes the work side of it out.
You know, I I heard itexplained like this the other
day as well and it resonated forme so much that you know, when
we're drinking we get that senseof like reward from, you know,
the dopamine that alcoholreleases or stimulates in our
(16:58):
bodies, and oxytocin, which getsreleased when we're in
community, does the same thing.
You also get a feeling ofreward.
That's why, when you'redrinking, it's so easy to
isolate because you're gettingreward from this other thing
which, as we know.
You know it's a reward with alot of backlash, but in
community you don't.
(17:19):
It's that sense of reward thatyou get, that really good
feeling, that connection, thatit just keeps growing the more
and the more you connect.
And it's so interesting becauseit really is like a mirror
where you you get to knowyourself better through people
that you can really be yourselfwith.
Yes, yeah, you know.
(17:40):
And and some of the mostamazing conversations that I've
had were with people in in acoach setting.
You know whether it was throughother coaches that were in
training or you know some of thecoaches that have coached me
where, where you're just talkingand they hear something in what
(18:02):
you're saying that you wouldn'thave heard for yourself and
some of those things have justbeen like, have pivoted the way
that I've seen myself and, youknow, understood my
circumstances or seen the way tointeract with things.
It's, it's been huge, it reallyhas.
And it's almost like you knowthis, when you, when you stop
(18:24):
drinking and you start to gothrough this journey of like
getting to know yourself again,because, as we know, like
alcohol really disconnects usfrom self and that is the the
core issue, I think, with all,all addiction, is that you, you
move away from yourself and whenyou go through this journey,
(18:46):
you know, know you'rereconnecting with yourself and
you're learning to get to knowyourself again.
And I think one of the mostbeautiful ways we do that is
through our relationships withother people.
You know where people are justreflecting back to us
compassionately and kindly whatthey hear and what they see, and
kindly what they hear and whatthey see, or you know where they
(19:10):
see, you know maybe somenegative thinking that's keeping
us stuck that we don't evenhear for ourselves sometimes,
and it's just so incrediblypowerful and really you know, I
think, like nobody wants to begoing through this journey of,
you know, like being stuck witha behavior or a habit that they
don't want.
Nobody wants that struggle, butcommunity and connection and
(19:32):
the people.
Just that experience of umbeing back in touch with
yourself and with other peoplein such an authentic way, I
think is one of the mostbeautiful gifts that come out of
out of all of it and and reallymakes it so worth it you know,
oh, totally, and I think you'reso right Like it's reconnecting
(19:55):
with our authentic selves,coming home to ourselves.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
But I actually and I've said it before, it might
sound a bit weird, but I embracemy past because without that I
wouldn't have this, I wouldn'thave these such deep connections
, I wouldn't have gotten to knowmyself so much more deeply and
just reconnect, but also Iwouldn't be seeing life through
(20:18):
this lens without it.
So I am grateful.
I am at a point now and this,this is something possible for
people to be grateful for forthe alcohol journey, because it
got me where I am now, andobviously there are many things
that I would rather forget, butoverall I wouldn't have all of
(20:39):
this without having had thatjourney.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Oh, I could not agree more.
I could not agree more and andI think it it also, you know,
helps to see any otherchallenging things that you're
going through in that same light.
Like it's really shitty whenyou're going through it, you
know.
But I think every experiencelike that brings about so much
(21:03):
beautiful gifts and change whenwe allow it to, to shape us and,
you know, and move throughthrough the challenging times
and, and you know, I see thatkind of replicated in everything
since then, whether it is, youknow, the death of a loved one,
or whether it is building abusiness and the challenges that
(21:25):
come with that.
You know, whether it's raisingkids or the challenging things
that comes with that.
You know when you can even havecommunity in those things and
when you can take the good withthe bad.
Like there's so much beauty andso much amazing things that
come out of that.
And that's one thing that thealcohol journey really did teach
(21:45):
me.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Oh, same same.
And so what communities do youhave now Reena?
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Oh well, I actually this is something that you know,
like I actually remembersitting with you at a coffee
shop going, isn't it?
Just?
Like you know, my clients areasking for community after
they've let go of alcohol.
You know, and and like it'ssomething that that people
(22:12):
inherently want.
They don't just want to dosomething and then be just left
by themselves again, becauseit's just, it's so awesome to be
connected.
And through that, um, a littlebook club called Unwind was born
, and it's one of my, like,passion projects because it just
combines everything that I waslooking for that I didn't know I
(22:35):
needed when I stopped drinking,you know, and it's it's based
on three pillars, which is whichis continued learning, and
that's really where you know,once you deal with the alcohol,
you're like okay, well, how do Inow manage emotions?
How do I interact withrelationships?
How do I learn about mythinking and and you know, learn
(23:00):
how to to think in a, in a waythat is actually going to move
me toward my goals?
How do I look after myself?
You know, how do I, like,manage and balance life without
getting overwhelmed?
All of these things come up,and so that is really something
that that we're all passionate Ithink about in this space is
(23:23):
that continued learning.
So that's where the book clubelement comes from.
And then the second pillar isthe coaching pillar, which is,
like you know, and I think thatthis really sets it apart as
well, because I think in manycommunities I mean, I'm part of
a lot of Facebook communities,so this is not on Facebook
(23:44):
either, but sometimes when it'sin there it can get dark quickly
People have very differentperspectives on what happens if
you have a setback or if youhave a tough time and you can
get really muddled up advice outthere that can sometimes, I
feel, be very negative and verycounterproductive.
(24:08):
Yes, and so this is where Ithink the coaching element
coming into.
It is so important becausecoaching, you know, we provide
that safe space where people cantalk about what they're going
through, but we don't giveadvice and we're just listening
for areas where we think youmight be keeping yourself stuck,
for areas where we think youmight be keeping yourself stuck,
(24:30):
and we just ask questions inthis curious and safe space to
help people get to their ownbest next step, in alignment
with where they want to go.
And so the coaching elementwithin that community, I think,
is so important as well.
So it's continued learning,coaching and then the community
aspect as well.
You know, connecting people onthis same journey.
(24:51):
It is so incredible whathappens and I think, with
everybody that I've met on thisjourney it's been so awesome
where you feel this instantconnection with somebody because
they know you know what you'vebeen through and what you know.
They know that, even though theexperiences haven't been
completely the same, like weunderstand what you go through
(25:13):
to get to where you are now.
We understand that compassionof um, you know somebody else's
story and listening to somebodyelse's story and supporting each
other through the ups and downs, and so, yeah, we create this
beautiful community aspect.
So, yeah, it's the continuedlearning, coaching, the
community, and we just have aprivate little you know what's
(25:37):
up chat where we keep in touchwith each other.
We meet once a week on zoom andyou know the the people that
have been a part of this justhave expressed that this has
been so foundational for them intheir continued both success
(25:59):
and, just like, continuedthriving in this alcohol-free
lifestyle.
You know, because, as we know,we're so inundated with
messaging about alcohol, it isstill everywhere.
I think it's getting you knowbetter.
There's definitely shiftshappening, but it's still
everywhere.
And it's so interesting thatyou know, when we're not
(26:22):
intentional about it and it'snot that I think it's a lifetime
intentionality but I thinkdefinitely in the first years
after letting go of alcohol,there is a certain intention
about noticing, you know, theway that society is programmed,
about alcohol and having a spacewhere, when those thoughts
(26:43):
creep back in you, you knowwhere to go with them.
You know you don't just letthem creep back into your
subconscious and create littlecravings and the next minute
you're thinking, oh, maybe Ishould just have a drink.
You know You're actually payingattention to it and you're
bringing it to a safe space.
And you know, like, over thecourse of the the year or two
(27:08):
following letting go of alcohol,you have your life's ups and
downs and things happen.
And sometimes things happenwhere all of a sudden you
unexpectedly do get um reallytriggered or caught off guard.
You know, and even if you havea setback or if you don't, you
just come talk about it.
Having that space to workthrough it with somebody, I
(27:31):
think is absolutely oh, I thinkeverybody just needs it and
that's always been the passionto provide that for people.
You know, and it's likesubscription, so you know you
join and when you and I think,like as part of being this, this
naked mind coach, one of thethings that I think we're all,
and everybody that I know thatis a coach is so passionate
(27:53):
about is, eventually, we want tobe irrelevant in people's lives
.
You know, we want people to beso thriving and so alive and so
free that they're like thank you, but I just don't need you
anymore, and so free thatthey're like thank you, but I
just don't need you anymore.
That's always the goal, youknow, and so I love that.
The way that we're approachingthis is not a okay, oh my gosh,
(28:18):
now I've got to do this for therest of my life.
I think I'll be in community forthe rest of my life in various
different ways, just because Ilove it so much.
It's just become so much partof like, my, my, my mental
health and my enjoyment of lifeand my enjoyment of people that
I think I'll just always will bein some sort of community, but
(28:42):
it won't always be centeredaround alcohol, you know, and so
that's kind of what Unwind is.
It's that, it's that niceinterchange between letting go
of alcohol and you know, and sothat's kind of what Unwind is,
it's that.
It's that nice interchangebetween letting go of alcohol
and, you know, having a safespace and, you know, eventually
moving to all the other thingsyou know that you want to do in
life and not, you know, havingalcohol really be irrelevant and
(29:03):
and focusing on other things inlife.
But yeah, that's, that's one ofthe things that, um, I've come
out of this, this journey thatis growing and I'm just so, so,
so happy to have that withpeople oh, I, I couldn't agree
more.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
It's so the group's so wonderful and just I think me
too, I community is going to besomething I'm always going to
be involved in and, like yousaid, the groups that we have,
or the communities, or you knowthis book club, we can.
It's beyond alcohol, so we arethere to support each other
through everything and thiscontinued learning that we do.
(29:42):
It just goes it ripple effectsinto every area of life and it's
helped me with relationships,with kids, with my health, like
I don't want people to think,like you just said, forever I
have to talk about alcohol, likeit's just not what we're
experiencing and but at the sametime, I am so happy to talk
about that with people.
(30:02):
You know it's, it's, it's allof it just brings joy to my life
and I still and you do, youknow we all have other parts of
our life that we still enjoy,but this is just such an
important part.
And you said earlier about thefeeling, the difference between
alcohol and the dopamine, butthe community and the dopamine,
(30:23):
I, I leave feeling uplifted andit just sets me up, you know,
for a great day or night andit's just such an important part
.
And I do want to stresscommunity continued learning.
I always tell my clientsthey're very important things
and it's not a scary thing, it'ssuch a joyful thing.
So Unwind is a book club aswell.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yes, so we communally agree on whatever book that
we're reading, we're all aboutnot adding overwhelm or another
thing to do in your life.
So sometimes people opt not toread the book, you know, when
they're in certain stage of lifeand they actually gain from the
conversations of other peoplesharing, which is so awesome.
(31:05):
And other times, you know,they're full on into the book
and we really encourage you knowyour own reading pace.
We provide some reflections, wechat about the book a little
bit.
Mostly we chat about what'sgoing on in life, you know.
So it's one part of the thread,but it's not the total thread
at all.
And yeah, so if anybody isinterested in joining us, you
(31:32):
can find us atwwwunwindbookclubcomau and
you'll find all the informationthere.
And yeah, if you've got anyquestions, just ask.
You know, if there's times thatdon't work for you or if you're
curious about what book we'rereading.
Now we are reading LivingUntethered.
(31:54):
Yes, we're just starting thatnow.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
We're just starting it after finishing, push Off
from here.
Yes, yes, a fantastic book.
They're all fantastic books.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
So yeah, so come and chat and see if it's for you.
We'd love to have you join.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Amazing.
I will put that in the shownotes as well.
It's been so wonderful havingyou on Reena, and we'd love to
have you back another time.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Oh, thank you so much for having me on, Megs, and
thank you for all the amazingwork that you guys do.
I just love what you do and Iwill speak to you soon.
Hey everyone, how you going?
I'm so excited today to have myfriend Reena on.
Reena has been on before so youcan go back and listen to her
story, but Reena's a fellow thisNaked Mind coach and we live
near each other.
Welcome, reena.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Thank you, Meg.
So nice to be back chatting toyou.
Thank you so much for having meon.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
It's so good to have you here, so Reena and I we get
together for coffee sometime.
It's so good to have someoneclose by, and that's kind of the
topic we're going to talk abouttoday is the community.
Last time I saw Reena, we weretalking about the new book by
Laura McCowan which is Push Offfrom here and there is a chapter
(00:45):
called you can't do it alone.
The next chapter on from thatis only you can do it.
But we were talking about theyou can't do it alone bit and it
was a really interestingconversation so we thought we'd
bring it to the pod.
And, Rena, you were talkingabout when you gave up and you
didn't have that communitysupport.
So I thought we could start bytalking about when you gave up
and you didn't have thatcommunity support.
So I thought we could start bytalking about that.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
That's so great.
Yeah, I definitely learned this, this one, the hard way.
You know, looking back, I was,I was always very independent,
and that's a really great thing.
Until it isn't, you know, Istopped drinking just by reading
Annie's book.
You know, which was amazing,and I'll preface that by saying,
(01:32):
of course, before that therewas years of trying and stopping
and doing different things, andthen, I think, when I was ready
and I found this book at theright time, then it just all
came together and it was great.
You know, like so many goodthings happened after I stopped.
(01:52):
There were so many.
I was kind of like on thislittle bit of a just a high, of
just being so grateful that Iwasn't drinking anymore.
I was feeling better, I wassleeping better, my anxiety was
better.
All of these amazing thingsstarted happening.
And there was also some thingsthat were really difficult, you
(02:13):
know.
I started to realize, because mymain reason for wanting to stop
drinking was because I noticedthat I wasn't being the mom that
I wanted to be with my kids.
I was tired, I was cranky, Iwas impatient, I was irritable,
and those things didn't go awaywhen I stopped drinking.
(02:35):
In fact, they got a little bitworse initially, because now I
had all these emotions and theseexperiences and I had no idea
what to do with them and I wasjust with them and I didn't at
that time.
I was just doing it by myself.
I didn't have a community, Ididn't have people that I was
(02:56):
talking to.
I was reading a lot of quitlet,so I was listening to other
people's stories, which I thinkhelped a little bit, was
listening to other people'sstories, which I think helped a
little bit, but I really didn'thave anybody that I was sharing
what I was going through oranything like that.
And after a while you know, itwas about maybe between six and
(03:18):
12 months into being alcoholfree I realized that I was still
in that place of feeling stillreally irritable and easily
frustrated and easily angered.
And it's almost like I gotstuck in a rut with that,
because it's very similar to thealcohol, where you get angry
(03:40):
and irritable and then you reactin a certain way and then you
feel guilty for how you'vereacted and then you kind of
beat yourself up a little bitand then next minute you're just
doing the same thing again andI was like I could not see
passes.
I was just like what is goingon.
I stopped drinking.
Why aren't I happy?
(04:02):
Why am I not, you know, likepatient?
Why am I not, you know, livingthe?
You know being the person thatI wanted to be?
And, at the same time, I hadthis inkling that I needed to
speak to people, that I neededto, um, you know, find my people
(04:27):
that I can speak to with this,because I was still even with my
friend groups.
Everybody was still drinking.
Um it, we weren't talking about, you know, the real life issues
behind drinking or anythinglike that.
So I haven't wasn't havingthese real conversations, and it
wasn't actually until then Istarted to do the coach training
(04:48):
, where I got my first glimpseof community.
Yes, and it was incredible,like it changed everything for
me.
All of a sudden, here we werein this space where we had this
communal experience of havingnavigated through alcohol and
(05:10):
addiction and we were sharingour stories and we were actually
had this beautiful space whereyou could just actually, but you
know, in a way, that you're notjust sharing, you're actually
learning from each other andfrom your own experience and
(05:30):
seeing how that impacts you nowand deciding how you want to go
forward.
And it was so empowering.
It was so incredible I wouldn'tsay it was easy.
It was like the training.
There was like months where Iwas so I was processing all
these things that were coming up.
(05:51):
As I started to recognize mynegative thinking, you know, I
was like, oh, I have a lot of nowonder I'm still irritable.
I have a lot of really negative, repetitive thinking going on
all the time and there's a lotof emotion that comes with that,
(06:12):
like no wonder I'm feeling likethis.
And it wasn't like.
It is like shifted and changed.
It was like this process.
I remember like I could feel itin my body, you know, just like
so tense, like my back wastense, like everything in my
body was like sore.
It was like a lot of emotionalprocessing.
But I had this beautiful safespace in this community and I
(06:34):
remember this particular onecall that we had, where and this
is the thing that showed mejust how powerful it is to learn
from other people's experiences, because we are so in the dark
sometimes about our ownexperience there's so much in
our own experience that we don'tunderstand or we just don't see
about ourselves.
This fascinates me right.
(06:55):
So we're on this call and thisother coach in training, was
sharing her experience withpostpartum depression and how it
kind of was extended throughyears, how she hadn't realized
it was maybe just like sixmonths or a year after giving
birth, but like 10 years latershe was still dealing with it
(07:18):
and through this beautiful sharelike a penny just dropped for
me, like I just so crystal clearcould see my experience in her
share and I was like, oh my gosh, like I had been going through
(07:39):
this same thing.
I could hear exactly myexperience and how she was
overwhelmed, how she didn't wantto get out of bed, how it
manifested as kind of sometimesit's like anger, because anger
is this kind of fuel that atleast you're then doing
something.
You know, and I just heard somuch in that experience and what
(08:03):
happened is that I started tobe able to see and understand
that experience in a completelydifferent light.
So, instead of just trying tofix it and trying to get out of
that cycle of like just show updifferently, I started to
actually understand why I wasfeeling that way for such a long
(08:24):
time, why I was my drinkingescalated so much after that
time.
You know why I was sooverwhelmed, why I was
struggling so many days.
And just that understandingstarted to shift so much because
I started to get this level oflike compassion with myself,
(08:44):
like, oh my gosh, I think I'vebeen dealing with postpartum
depression.
It was then up, you know, likemy my boy was six or seven years
old, so, you know, like sevenyears, and I don't think I've
ever recovered from that.
It just like it wasn't so muchthe label, it was more just that
(09:07):
, that, um, articulation of anexperience and having context
around it, that shifted so muchfor me.
And from then things reallystarted to change quickly.
You know when I could start tounderstand that, yeah, I'd I'd
been having these recurringthoughts, these recurring
(09:27):
experiences and, and you know,through so much, so much else in
community as well, where you,where you hear from other
people's experience how they getthrough that, the things that
they try, you know, um, thedifferent tools that there are
to use.
That all came through communityand and that space to just talk
(09:50):
about it.
There is something that happens.
It's, you know, and I stillcan't really get my head around
why this is, but there issomething so amazing that
happens when you just talk aboutwhat is going on from for you,
from this really, um, from thisspace of just you know, there's
(10:11):
nothing to kind of fix, you'rejust kind of sharing.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
And for somebody else to just have that space where
you know you're not going to bejudged or or where you're not
going to be um, belittled or orthought badly of for anything,
(10:37):
but you're just sharing andsomething just happens where you
start to kind of like, see yourexperiences from a different
perspective, where you start tohave compassion for yourself,
and then you connect with otherpeople who go through the same
thing and they're like, oh, thathappened to me as well, like
what, you know?
You just don't think that thatyou feel so alone sometimes when
(10:59):
you go through these things,and there is sometimes so much
shame involved that you justfeel like especially with the
mum thing, you know you justfeel like everybody else has got
it together.
Everybody else is managing fineI should be managing fine.
Everybody else is juggling allthe balls and they're not
(11:20):
letting the balls fall, and itmakes you feel so alone and it
makes you feel so justunconnected.
Yeah.
And then, when you get to thesespaces where actually people
are like me too and I'vestruggled with that too, yes, I,
(11:41):
you know, I also.
You know life's not perfect.
After you give let go ofalcohol.
There's just so still so manychallenges.
And just to hear that and tokind of navigate that together.
That is huge, you know.
And then, even even now, like I,I like my circle, then just
(12:03):
continue to expand from there.
You know, it's first thecoaches and training, and then
the different communities thatwe get connected to, and then
the people that you getconnected to when you're
coaching as well, and that's, um, you know how you and I met as
well, megs, and it's it's sointeresting that that now, at
(12:25):
any given moment, I have about10 people that I could call if
I'm going through a tough time.
You know, and that is such adifferent experience from like
six, seven years ago, where Ididn't feel like I really had
anybody to call if I was havinga hard day or if I was going
(12:48):
through a tough time, orsomebody really to speak to.
And I tell you, that makes sucha world of difference.
It really does.
You know, it's something thatI'm always encouraging people to
do, even after they doone-on-one coaching.
It's like, okay, well, well,where are you going to be
connected to after this?
Because that's so important.
(13:09):
Letting going of letting go ofalcohol is just the, the, the
first step.
It's like a massive, pivotalstep which makes everything else
possible, but it's also justthe first step.
And then you know you're goingto navigate life with all its
ups and downs, and and to beconnected to community while
you're going through.
(13:29):
That, I think, is just soessential.
So, as I don't know actuallywhere I would have been now if,
if I hadn't had that, yeah, yeah, oh.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
I just it sounds so much like my experience as well.
Like, what do they say?
Connection is the opposite ofaddiction, and that's what
you're saying and that's beenproven by both of us.
I was the same when I initiallystopped drinking.
I did the podcast.
No, I didn't do the podcast, Ilistened to the podcasts, I read
(14:05):
the Quitlet and that wasfantastic, but it wasn't enough.
So then I joined an online groupthis is like six or seven years
, six years ago, so there wasn'tas much out there but it was by
someone, an Australian calledRebecca Weller, and it was a 90
day program.
It wasn't connecting with otherpeople, but I knew I wasn't
alone because it was a dailyactivity or whatever it was.
(14:27):
And then I actually tried AAand the community was what I
loved.
That's when I realized I needcommunity.
It didn't work out for melong-term and when I stopped it
after four months I actuallywent back to drinking and I
recognized that I can't do thison my own, like Laura McCowan
says.
And then I found this nakedmind and did the coaching
(14:50):
training.
Rita and I were in differentcohorts, but, oh my gosh, it
just opened up a new world forme as well, and I think what
you're saying you know, knowingthat you're not alone.
So there are groups that youcan find for everything these
days, like I don't even know how, like my mum, like as a parent,
as a mother, you know, nowadayswe've got mother's groups,
(15:11):
we've got blogs, so you knowyou're not alone.
And 19 years ago, my middledaughter, I found an online mum
community and that helped me.
You know, that was amazingbecause we all had something in
common and if you have anillness, there are support
groups, like diabetes or cancer,because only the people that
(15:33):
are going through it really getit, and that's what we found
here as well.
So it's a universal thing andjust knowing you're not alone
and also just connecting soquickly, because we have this
one big thing in common, and MelRobbins talks about the three
pillars of friendship and one ofthem is timing, and that's kind
of the timing for all of us onthis journey.
(15:55):
That's connected us.
And then the common thing wherewe feel, like you said, you've
developed self-compassion.
You know, the shame disappearedfor me when I met people who
were going through the samething and, like you said, you
did not even you didn't realizeyou had postnatal depression, we
self-medicated, we tried tohelp ourselves with alcohol, you
(16:20):
know.
So we've all got that in common.
And then we meet other peopleand and, and it has taken work
like it does take work, butdoing it in a community to me
has never felt like work yeah,that is so true, it's it.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
It takes the work side of it out.
You know, I I heard itexplained like this the other
day as well and it resonated forme so much that you know, when
we're drinking we get that senseof like reward from, you know,
the dopamine that alcoholreleases or stimulates in our
(16:58):
bodies, and oxytocin, which getsreleased when we're in
community, does the same thing.
You also get a feeling ofreward.
That's why, when you'redrinking, it's so easy to
isolate because you're gettingreward from this other thing
which, as we know.
You know it's a reward with alot of backlash, but in
community you don't.
(17:19):
It's that sense of reward thatyou get, that really good
feeling, that connection, thatit just keeps growing the more
and the more you connect.
And it's so interesting becauseit really is like a mirror
where you you get to knowyourself better through people
that you can really be yourselfwith.
Yes, yeah, you know.
(17:40):
And and some of the mostamazing conversations that I've
had were with people in in acoach setting.
You know whether it was throughother coaches that were in
training or you know some of thecoaches that have coached me
where, where you're just talkingand they hear something in what
(18:02):
you're saying that you wouldn'thave heard for yourself and
some of those things have justbeen like, have pivoted the way
that I've seen myself and, youknow, understood my
circumstances or seen the way tointeract with things.
It's, it's been huge, it reallyhas.
And it's almost like you knowthis, when you, when you stop
(18:24):
drinking and you start to gothrough this journey of like
getting to know yourself again,because, as we know, like
alcohol really disconnects usfrom self and that is the the
core issue, I think, with all,all addiction, is that you, you
move away from yourself and whenyou go through this journey,
(18:46):
you know, know you'rereconnecting with yourself and
you're learning to get to knowyourself again.
And I think one of the mostbeautiful ways we do that is
through our relationships withother people.
You know where people are justreflecting back to us
compassionately and kindly whatthey hear and what they see, and
kindly what they hear and whatthey see, or you know where they
(19:10):
see, you know maybe somenegative thinking that's keeping
us stuck that we don't evenhear for ourselves sometimes,
and it's just so incrediblypowerful and really you know, I
think, like nobody wants to begoing through this journey of,
you know, like being stuck witha behavior or a habit that they
don't want.
Nobody wants that struggle, butcommunity and connection and
(19:32):
the people.
Just that experience of umbeing back in touch with
yourself and with other peoplein such an authentic way, I
think is one of the mostbeautiful gifts that come out of
out of all of it and and reallymakes it so worth it you know,
oh, totally, and I think you'reso right Like it's reconnecting
(19:55):
with our authentic selves,coming home to ourselves.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
But I actually and I've said it before, it might
sound a bit weird, but I embracemy past because without that I
wouldn't have this, I wouldn'thave these such deep connections
, I wouldn't have gotten to knowmyself so much more deeply and
just reconnect, but also Iwouldn't be seeing life through
(20:18):
this lens without it.
So I am grateful.
I am at a point now and this,this is something possible for
people to be grateful for forthe alcohol journey, because it
got me where I am now, andobviously there are many things
that I would rather forget, butoverall I wouldn't have all of
(20:39):
this without having had thatjourney.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Oh, I could not agree more.
I could not agree more and andI think it it also, you know,
helps to see any otherchallenging things that you're
going through in that same light.
Like it's really shitty whenyou're going through it, you
know.
But I think every experiencelike that brings about so much
(21:03):
beautiful gifts and change whenwe allow it to, to shape us and,
you know, and move throughthrough the challenging times
and, and you know, I see thatkind of replicated in everything
since then, whether it is, youknow, the death of a loved one,
or whether it is building abusiness and the challenges that
(21:25):
come with that.
You know, whether it's raisingkids or the challenging things
that comes with that.
You know when you can even havecommunity in those things and
when you can take the good withthe bad.
Like there's so much beauty andso much amazing things that
come out of that.
And that's one thing that thealcohol journey really did teach
(21:45):
me.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Oh, same same.
And so what communities do youhave now Reena?
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Oh well, I actually this is something that you know,
like I actually remembersitting with you at a coffee
shop going, isn't it?
Just?
Like you know, my clients areasking for community after
they've let go of alcohol.
You know, and and like it'ssomething that that people
(22:12):
inherently want.
They don't just want to dosomething and then be just left
by themselves again, becauseit's just, it's so awesome to be
connected.
And through that, um, a littlebook club called Unwind was born
, and it's one of my, like,passion projects because it just
combines everything that I waslooking for that I didn't know I
(22:35):
needed when I stopped drinking,you know, and it's it's based
on three pillars, which is whichis continued learning, and
that's really where you know,once you deal with the alcohol,
you're like okay, well, how do Inow manage emotions?
How do I interact withrelationships?
How do I learn about mythinking and and you know, learn
(23:00):
how to to think in a, in a waythat is actually going to move
me toward my goals?
How do I look after myself?
You know, how do I, like,manage and balance life without
getting overwhelmed?
All of these things come up,and so that is really something
that that we're all passionate Ithink about in this space is
(23:23):
that continued learning.
So that's where the book clubelement comes from.
And then the second pillar isthe coaching pillar, which is,
like you know, and I think thatthis really sets it apart as
well, because I think in manycommunities I mean, I'm part of
a lot of Facebook communities,so this is not on Facebook
(23:44):
either, but sometimes when it'sin there it can get dark quickly
People have very differentperspectives on what happens if
you have a setback or if youhave a tough time and you can
get really muddled up advice outthere that can sometimes, I
feel, be very negative and verycounterproductive.
(24:08):
Yes, and so this is where Ithink the coaching element
coming into.
It is so important becausecoaching, you know, we provide
that safe space where people cantalk about what they're going
through, but we don't giveadvice and we're just listening
for areas where we think youmight be keeping yourself stuck,
for areas where we think youmight be keeping yourself stuck,
(24:30):
and we just ask questions inthis curious and safe space to
help people get to their ownbest next step, in alignment
with where they want to go.
And so the coaching elementwithin that community, I think,
is so important as well.
So it's continued learning,coaching and then the community
aspect as well.
You know, connecting people onthis same journey.
(24:51):
It is so incredible whathappens and I think, with
everybody that I've met on thisjourney it's been so awesome
where you feel this instantconnection with somebody because
they know you know what you'vebeen through and what you know.
They know that, even though theexperiences haven't been
completely the same, like weunderstand what you go through
(25:13):
to get to where you are now.
We understand that compassionof um, you know somebody else's
story and listening to somebodyelse's story and supporting each
other through the ups and downs, and so, yeah, we create this
beautiful community aspect.
So, yeah, it's the continuedlearning, coaching, the
community, and we just have aprivate little you know what's
(25:37):
up chat where we keep in touchwith each other.
We meet once a week on zoom andyou know the the people that
have been a part of this justhave expressed that this has
been so foundational for them intheir continued both success
(25:59):
and, just like, continuedthriving in this alcohol-free
lifestyle.
You know, because, as we know,we're so inundated with
messaging about alcohol, it isstill everywhere.
I think it's getting you knowbetter.
There's definitely shiftshappening, but it's still
everywhere.
And it's so interesting thatyou know, when we're not
(26:22):
intentional about it and it'snot that I think it's a lifetime
intentionality but I thinkdefinitely in the first years
after letting go of alcohol,there is a certain intention
about noticing, you know, theway that society is programmed,
about alcohol and having a spacewhere, when those thoughts
(26:43):
creep back in you, you knowwhere to go with them.
You know you don't just letthem creep back into your
subconscious and create littlecravings and the next minute
you're thinking, oh, maybe Ishould just have a drink.
You know You're actually payingattention to it and you're
bringing it to a safe space.
And you know, like, over thecourse of the the year or two
(27:08):
following letting go of alcohol,you have your life's ups and
downs and things happen.
And sometimes things happenwhere all of a sudden you
unexpectedly do get um reallytriggered or caught off guard.
You know, and even if you havea setback or if you don't, you
just come talk about it.
Having that space to workthrough it with somebody, I
(27:31):
think is absolutely oh, I thinkeverybody just needs it and
that's always been the passionto provide that for people.
You know, and it's likesubscription, so you know you
join and when you and I think,like as part of being this, this
naked mind coach, one of thethings that I think we're all,
and everybody that I know thatis a coach is so passionate
(27:53):
about is, eventually, we want tobe irrelevant in people's lives
.
You know, we want people to beso thriving and so alive and so
free that they're like thank you, but I just don't need you
anymore, and so free thatthey're like thank you, but I
just don't need you anymore.
That's always the goal, youknow, and so I love that.
The way that we're approachingthis is not a okay, oh my gosh,
(28:18):
now I've got to do this for therest of my life.
I think I'll be in community forthe rest of my life in various
different ways, just because Ilove it so much.
It's just become so much partof like, my, my, my mental
health and my enjoyment of lifeand my enjoyment of people that
I think I'll just always will bein some sort of community, but
(28:42):
it won't always be centeredaround alcohol, you know, and so
that's kind of what Unwind is.
It's that, it's that niceinterchange between letting go
of alcohol and you know, and sothat's kind of what Unwind is,
it's that.
It's that nice interchangebetween letting go of alcohol
and, you know, having a safespace and, you know, eventually
moving to all the other thingsyou know that you want to do in
life and not, you know, havingalcohol really be irrelevant and
(29:03):
and focusing on other things inlife.
But yeah, that's, that's one ofthe things that, um, I've come
out of this, this journey thatis growing and I'm just so, so,
so happy to have that withpeople oh, I, I couldn't agree
more.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
It's so the group's so wonderful and just I think me
too, I community is going to besomething I'm always going to
be involved in and, like yousaid, the groups that we have,
or the communities, or you knowthis book club, we can.
It's beyond alcohol, so we arethere to support each other
through everything and thiscontinued learning that we do.
(29:42):
It just goes it ripple effectsinto every area of life and it's
helped me with relationships,with kids, with my health, like
I don't want people to think,like you just said, forever I
have to talk about alcohol, likeit's just not what we're
experiencing and but at the sametime, I am so happy to talk
about that with people.
(30:02):
You know it's, it's, it's allof it just brings joy to my life
and I still and you do, youknow we all have other parts of
our life that we still enjoy,but this is just such an
important part.
And you said earlier about thefeeling, the difference between
alcohol and the dopamine, butthe community and the dopamine,
(30:23):
I, I leave feeling uplifted andit just sets me up, you know,
for a great day or night andit's just such an important part
.
And I do want to stresscommunity continued learning.
I always tell my clientsthey're very important things
and it's not a scary thing, it'ssuch a joyful thing.
So Unwind is a book club aswell.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yes, so we communally agree on whatever book that
we're reading, we're all aboutnot adding overwhelm or another
thing to do in your life.
So sometimes people opt not toread the book, you know, when
they're in certain stage of lifeand they actually gain from the
conversations of other peoplesharing, which is so awesome.
(31:05):
And other times, you know,they're full on into the book
and we really encourage you knowyour own reading pace.
We provide some reflections, wechat about the book a little
bit.
Mostly we chat about what'sgoing on in life, you know.
So it's one part of the thread,but it's not the total thread
at all.
And yeah, so if anybody isinterested in joining us, you
(31:32):
can find us atwwwunwindbookclubcomau and
you'll find all the informationthere.
And yeah, if you've got anyquestions, just ask.
You know, if there's times thatdon't work for you or if you're
curious about what book we'rereading.
Now we are reading LivingUntethered.
(31:54):
Yes, we're just starting thatnow.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
We're just starting it after finishing, push Off
from here.
Yes, yes, a fantastic book.
They're all fantastic books.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
So yeah, so come and chat and see if it's for you.
We'd love to have you join.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Amazing.
I will put that in the shownotes as well.
It's been so wonderful havingyou on Reena, and we'd love to
have you back another time.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Oh, thank you so much for having me on, Megs, and
thank you for all the amazingwork that you guys do.
I just love what you do and Iwill speak to you soon.
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