December 16, 2024 • 45 mins
Is the concept of masculinity undergoing a crisis, or are we simply witnessing its evolution in society? Join us as we question the so-called "young men epidemic" and the perceived threat of men losing purpose in Western society. By examining the intersection of gender and politics, we explore whether government intervention in gender ideology is warranted, given the historical shifts that have broadened inclusion for women and people of color. Drawing from our personal experiences in Virginia and Baltimore, we aim to offer fresh insights and provoke thought on these pressing topics.
Traditional gender roles have long been a source of identity and purpose, but what happens when they're labeled as obsolete? We discuss the notion that these roles still have value, provided they are adapted to be inclusive and meaningful for everyone. Highlighting the challenges faced by young men and women in navigating modern relationships and family dynamics, we stress the importance of emotional intelligence and consistency. Through stories from history and modern research, we unpack the societal expectations of masculinity and how they are being redefined today.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Greetings everyone.
It's Taj Davis here, joined byHerb Wakefield, and we are here
to deliver this next episode ofthe New Black Podcast to you all
.
It's currently December 1st2024, and I'm feeling like the
(00:25):
topic of this podcast mostly hasto do with the state of men, um
, in our Western world at thismoment in time.
Herb, how you doing man?
Is there anything else to addon to that of what we're trying
to deliver to the people today?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
No man.
How's everybody doing?
No, I think the topic today isthis, essentially this what is
called the young men epidemic,where there have been this sense
in Western society that youngmen are losing this sense of
(01:02):
purpose in society and we wantto try and unpack that a little
bit today, showing giving someof our thoughts and some of our
anecdotal evidence of workingvery closely like this next
generation of men who are comingup in the virginia and
baltimore area.
So, yeah, it should be a funconversation and hopefully
(01:24):
insightful for people to listento and to give our perspective
as two young men in this societyand dealing with it and it's
really interesting to kind ofwhat you just said.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
There is like our audience, um, I think about that
quite a bit.
It's like who's ask myselfwho's listening to this podcast,
and I think we actually have afairly diverse spread of
listeners.
I think we have, obviously,folks who are around our age,
but then also folks who areolder, maybe trying to get a
(01:57):
better sense of what's going onwith the young folks, and then I
think we also have, maybe somefolks who are a bit younger than
us trying to find some wisdom.
So I actually see this more soas like trying to explain more
so to folks who are older thanus or around our same age than
as to like tailoring us towardsyounger folks.
(02:20):
I don't think younger folks aregoing to listen to this.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
If I'm being real, I mean, you never know.
I mean we've also talked abouton an earlier podcast I believe
this is in 2023 about a similartopic regarding Andrew Tate,
with a guest I forget his name,but Charles Charles and yeah, I
(02:42):
mean that focuses more on thedating side of things, but I
believe today we're going to befocusing more so on what it
actually means to be a man inthis society and how that could
be challenging, I think so thefirst question that I think will
let us get into this topic ishow does gender show up in
(03:06):
politics and should it show upin politics?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
so yeah, I'm pitching that question to you, herb how
does gender show up in politicsand should it show up in
politics?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I think gender shows up in politics in a way where it
has been manipulated as asource of power, in a sense that
gender and gender ideology hasbeen this manipulating force in
order for people to get votesand retain their power to where.
(03:38):
I believe that not a lot ofpeople really believe in some of
the things they're saying, butI feel like the past election
has brought up a lot ofquestions of gender that are
interesting and honestly need tobe reconciled in America.
Still Now.
Is it going to be answered withthis incoming administration?
(04:01):
Answered with this incomingadministration administration?
No, I don't think the ideologyof gender is a conversation that
is ever going to be written instone and come solidified as law
.
You know, I think it's going tobe an ongoing conversation and
this stuff is going to evolve,but as far as that it pertains
to politics, I don't.
(04:23):
It's hard for me to see why andthe way I view this is the
question of this should agovernment be responsible for
controlling the ideology ofgender that is in its country?
My answer to that is no.
I think that a government'sresponsibility is to ensure the
(04:43):
safety of all people in itscountry.
Now that will start to pertaininto what rights and liberties
are afforded to people andgenders, but it's not for a
government to say oh, the onlytwo genders identities that this
country is going to observe ismale and female and they're
(05:07):
going to be assigned at birth.
I don't think it's the role ofthe government to take that
stance.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
That's a beautiful response to the question and
thorough.
I think I have a slightly Idon't know if I disagree with
you, but I'll add somethingdifferent to that second part of
the question.
Um, yeah, I think gendershowing up in politics in a way
that's unprecedented I hateusing that word, but I'll tend
(05:38):
to look at things through a morehistorical lens.
Of like, in this country, it'snot until you know the last
lifetime, right like thelifetime of our grandparents,
that we've had to consider, um,you know, women and people of
color actually voting andactually mattering in the
(06:00):
political sense.
Uh, like votes, obviously theymattered in politics, but they
couldn't vote, um, and so nowit's showing up in ways that's
like okay, well, we have toactually cater to not just like
white men, but men of all colors, um, of all socioeconomic
statuses, um, and now women aswell, right, so, like, this is,
(06:23):
this is new, um, and I thinkthat's women women, like trans,
identifying people andnon-binary people as well.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Like, I think the the major thing of like because, as
you said, gender has beenprevalent in politics ever since
the founders said that onlywhite men, landowning men, are
allowed to vote.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
But I think the question today is like what is
is how we conceptualize gender,the way we're going to move
forward, and I think thatquestion is a little bit more
difficult to say well, and it'slike the weird thing and I don't
know what I was listening to,or maybe it's something that you
(07:04):
actually shared with me waslike, if you go around I know it
was something in breakingpoints, I believe, which is a
podcast we both listened to, andso they were just going around
to like different men in, likeAfrica, asia, whatever, asking
whether they wanted to seeKamala or Trump, and most people
said Trump because, like they,just Trump to them demonstrates
(07:29):
like what they idealize as a man, um, and so he has a lot of
leverage in determining whatpeople ascribe to being a man in
America.
Uh, and I also think likethere's a really insidious part
of it, too, where, regardless ofwhat is being, how that cloud,
(07:55):
that leverage, is being directed, people are being utilized for
some ulterior motive, like likehe, whatever that motive is, it
is not the spiritual, physical,emotional growth of these young
people, and so in my world, Isee gender showing up in
(08:21):
politics in a way that's veryresentful, uh, in a way in which
you know, and I gravitatetowards thinking about young men
honestly, because they are theones who are feeling like the
world is against them, um, andthey're seeing their vote as an
outlet to that, as a way tosolve whatever it is.
(08:42):
They think that, um, the worldis trying to stop them from, and
I guess from the, themeasurables of like okay, um,
gender shows up in importantways.
Like less the birth rates arelower right, that affects,
regardless of your gender, likethat's affecting the human race.
(09:03):
Boom, boom.
Home ownership dropping rightand traditionally again in
America, like there's this likerugged individualism that's like
so closely associated with,like colonialism and capitalism,
to where, like you got to goout, you got to conquer, you got
to conquer the people, you gotto conquer the land, you got to
(09:23):
provide for your family, right,Like that's what we're talking
about here.
And so now young men aren'table to like buy houses, they're
not able to provide in thefinancial sense, and so they're
feeling stymied, um, and sothey're giving a lot of that
power to the, to the state, andin this case, the state is
(09:45):
Donald Trump.
Should it show up.
Um, it's interesting, like Iagain I said earlier, like I
recently watched the recentadaptation of roots and like one
of the things that that reallysticks out to me in that is like
the right of passage, the riteof passage, like they, they
(10:10):
highlight the mandinka rite ofpassage for that all the young
men go through and it reallyemphasizes okay, what does a
culture prioritize really?
and um, and I think there's aplace for that and I don't know
exactly what it is for us in theAmerican context, because, I
look around, every culture, thehistory of humans has some kind
(10:33):
of rite of passage, whether itwas the Romans, the Greeks, you
know, the West Africans, theEast Africans, the Arabs, like
everyone has some kind of riteof passage the Latinos but for
us, we don't have that, and so Ifeel like until we have
(10:53):
something like that, there willalways be a void.
So I think that people needsome kind of meaning associated
with their gender, and I feellike in America we have taken
power away from families, not ina like, oh, we want to take
power away from the families way, but capital has reigned
(11:14):
supreme.
Like we have prioritizedcapital over time to spend with
families, for example, and youknow the ability for families to
really like live their values.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
So if that's the world we live in, I think maybe
the state could or should havesome kind of say in how you know
gender shows up that'sinteresting because I would, I
would, I would, I would, I wouldsay that it's the state's more
(11:52):
so responsibility to regulatecapital than it is to regulate
families.
Yeah, which seems as a verylike conservative I think.
I don't know if that is aconservative viewpoint I don't
know it's, it's weird yeah, Ithink the political landscape
has become so discombobulatedthat, you know, there are things
(12:16):
in the on the right that Iagree with, there are things on
the left that I agree with, butthere are things I vehemently
disagree on.
There's more things I vehementlydisagree with on the right than
there is on the left.
But, yeah, this relegation offamilies and this
(12:37):
hyper-individualistic world thatwe live in, I think that I
think, in those like rites ofpassages that you're talking
about, it makes, I think, thereis a greater sense of what it
means to be a part of yourgender, because there is that
communal sense and that communalrole that you have to fill,
(13:02):
where there isn't necessarilythese defined roles anymore in
um, in modern civilization whichis probably why we don't have
these rites of passages likethey did back then because there
are like like yeah, like allright, you're 13, now you're a
man, you can do whatever, like Imean, I think you see these
(13:26):
rites of passages, however, inlike very um, what are can be
considered and very like, notarchaic, but like um, older.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
So if there's anything that's like combat
related, like the military hasrites of passages yes you know,
because it's still a very liketribal and sense nature of
warfare in that sense and Ithink the rite of passage it
shows you in a way, like how tolove and like what you value in
(14:01):
relationship to love and likeand I'm thinking a lot about how
, about how bell hooks defineslove as like something that like
fosters, kind of like I saidearlier the spiritual growth of
someone else and also somethingthat you're willing to fight and
die for.
So I think the rite of passageit tells you like these are
(14:26):
things that are worth fightingfor, like this is like why we're
all here, essentially and whywe're unified.
And until something like thatcan give young people meaning,
and until something like thatcan give young people meaning, I
just think people are going tobe wayward, without purpose.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Yeah, and you're going to see a lot of the
(15:11):
extremism that I think we'retrying to focus on here.
Yeah, I think, and I realizethe there was a quote that I was
referring to before we startedrecording where there's a notion
that this sort of like not Idon't want to say the attacks,
but like this sort of like, thissort of like interjection of
like what it means to be a manin today's day and age, teeters
(15:32):
on the outcomes either beingdangerous men or useless men.
Right, and now people are moreso on the now it seems like it's
going to um, lean more towardsthis useless man era, and it is
(15:57):
of my opinion that acivilization of useless men is a
civilization that is I don'twant to say like is a vulnerable
, is a vulnerable civilizationas a whole you know, very
vulnerable and maybe evenvulnerable from ourselves yeah
(16:18):
um, you know, and and I think avery easy thing- yeah, Like you
know, like an easy way to finduse is to pick up a weapon and
go fight, something like itdoesn't take.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
I mean, yes, it takes training to like move in drill
and, you know, in unison, but aslong as you're able, bodied
like, you can do that there's,there's, there's no barrier to
entry there, um, and so it'sinteresting too, like and this
is the last thing I'll say aboutroots, but like last thing I'm
(16:58):
saying about roots is crazy he'slike pressed, that like they,
they tell him like they're goingthrough the mandinka warrior
training and they're telling himthe most important thing for a
mandinka warrior to do is to tostart a family of his own and to
like to extend the values to afuture generation.
(17:21):
And and when Kunta is brought toAmerica, his mind is so set on
like nah, I'm going back toAfrica, like I'm not starting a
family here in this decrepitstate, and so kind of what
you're saying of like uselessmen.
Like he saw his future, likehis future, like his family's
future in america is beinguseless.
(17:43):
But then finally he realized,like it's not even about that so
much, and so he finally, likeyou know, got married has a kid,
and then he's still thinkingwait, um, this is more so about
honoring the people who wereperforming right and like
honoring my parents and thestories that they pass on to me,
(18:05):
and if I don't pass it down,those things die.
So I need to pass it down.
And he has a daughter right.
And then the daughter's likewell, can I be a mandinka
warrior?
and he's like no, but like I'm atrainee nonetheless, like like
he, he kind of adapted it to tryand train his daughter in a way
that like makes her able, rightand makes her useful, um, and
(18:29):
at a certain point, like sheeven talks about, like her
intellect as something that,like she took on for herself,
like that is her ability to beuseful, um, because you know she
can't go out and be free, likethis is an extreme circumstance
where people are enslaved, solike that is the epitome of
(18:49):
feeling useless.
But they're still feeling likeokay, if I can read these books,
I can be of some use.
I don't know how this againrelates back to gender showing
up in politics, uh, but I feellike it definitely relates to
gender so so my point is thatregardless of whether you're a
(19:11):
man or whether you're a woman.
Identifying non-binary you needmeaning as related to how your
gender is seen in society orwhat your role in society is.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Yeah, exactly, um, I think there is a.
I do think there is anantiquated view of gender roles
that we have in society, butthere is a specific.
I think there is a need for setroles in order to define
(19:47):
purpose in people's lives.
Now, I don't think that setroles are going to be
necessarily split below what itmeans to be of like, having
characteristics of moremasculine characteristics or
(20:08):
feminine characteristics asdefined by, um biological sex.
Um, it could be roles based onjust individual, um abilities,
as women will, may women, somewomen may be better at men and
at men than men at some things,rather than and vice versa.
Um, but then that begs thequestion of like.
(20:31):
Okay, if that's the case, thenwhat does it still mean?
Does it make masculinity goaway?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
well, it's interesting because no I think
this now we can loop in gallowaya little bit, um and, like the,
the modern research, right.
So they talk about gender rolesbeing antiquated.
Well, it's like.
Well, one of the things that Ithink is a huge sell for all
male schools is that males andfemales cognitively develop
(21:04):
differently, and so one of thethings that rob galloway kind of
really highlights, um, is thatby the time you know when you're
talking about especially thehigh school age, young women,
they are operating at an adultlevel, whereas, like the 18 year
old boy, like he's operating ona child level, and so I think
(21:30):
that's one of the places where,yeah, like when it comes to, uh,
like in the, in societal, whatthe societal, what the society
needs, okay, well, women arebetter equipped to be making
important decisions at youngerages.
So we need to actually elevatethem, you know, into these
(21:52):
leadership roles and things likethat.
But the thing is at the end ofthe day, kind of talking about,
like physical skills and thingslike that, um, a man is going to
be more adept to protecting.
I think, like you can ask a lotof women out there like, yeah,
(22:13):
whatever decision she makes atwork, great, but at the end of
the day, she wants to feelprotected, and so I think that
is something that I would liketo see young men prioritize more
.
Yeah, in all walks of life.
Like, regardless of what kindof money you can make, are you
(22:35):
at least emotionally intelligentenough to know that you need to
be consistent?
Like you need to be consistentand showing up in a way that
another human being can be like,oh yeah, that's my guy.
Like I trust him.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Yeah, I think I think we should break down what
protectiveness means in thatsense, cause we're not saying
that, oh, women cannot protectthemselves.
Do I believe that if we had theoption?
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I think I hate to get because this is going to sound
sexist, but like it's gonna,that's the problem but like this
is real, this is real, like so,so, and I think one of the one
of the if I get in a fight, I'mnot, I'm gonna call my brother
rather than my sister is likeright the thing, but that's like
a very tribalistic view ofprotectionism, I think but even,
(23:28):
even I think even protection on, like a family level, for
example, like, um, when youthink about like cycles right,
like men are, we have a cycle.
We don't't talk about it.
Our cycle is daily, though,like the start of the day, our
testosterone is the highest.
Why is that?
Why is that?
(23:51):
Well, it's like we're supposedto be getting up and doing
something.
We got to go do something.
You know what I mean.
There has to be that that likeand galloway talks about like
men being maybe inherentlybetter at like initiating um,
and that being kind of like justimportant for any kind of
success, uh, whereas like, awoman's cycle is obviously
(24:13):
monthly.
So, when we're thinking abouthormonal cycles is what you're
describing yeah, like a hormonalcycle, and so I think, like a
sign of a wise man isunderstanding a woman's cycle,
and I think a sign of a wisewoman is also understanding her
own cycle in a way of, and Idon't think there's anything
(24:38):
sexist about that like.
That's very humanist, I feellike, but it's it's.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
It's strange that we can't or feel sexist when we
talk about it yeah, and I Ithink that is because and I
think that's one of the tropesthat we fall into um, and one of
the pitfalls that we fall intois that a lot of this talk about
how we are able to support menin society has been manipulated
(25:08):
into this very misogynisticrhetoric, and I'm really
attempting not to fall into thatsame category of saying, oh,
women do this, they can only dothis, blah, blah, blah.
I think there is.
The fact is that, for somereason, being a man in today's
(25:33):
society is undergoing thistransformation from what is
deemed to be traditional valuesof masculinity as far as
aggression or protectiveness, orbeing a provider, and these
instances that are that a lot ofyoung men are wrestling with.
(25:57):
I think, because we are stillgoing, young men are going
through this in that timebetween like 16 and 25 years old
, this very pubescent time framewhere it's like you're being
pent up with all thistestosterone, you don't really
know what to do with it and youdon't have any purpose if you
don't have any directive to orpurpose to drive that into.
(26:20):
Like it's difficult and to say,like the natural, the
historical roles where thosetypes of things could be
impressed are now sort of beingstripped back in a way, causes
this confusion within ourmasculinity in itself, where
(26:41):
it's like okay, what do I dowith these things, these things
that are been I want to saygiven you know, and that's not
to say that and I think that thegreatest, I think that the
greatest thing that we can do asmen today is be able to adapt
(27:03):
now.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I think the greatest thing that we can do right now
is adapt to what it now means tobe protective, what it now
means to be a provider, what itnow means I think there's a, I
think more so what it means tobe a man now is being able to
trust, being able to be reliable, you know I think like there's
something kind of again likebuilding off of what I was
(27:31):
saying with cycles, right, youknow, we have some friends who
just found out they're pregnant.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
That's great again like this is.
This is such a human experienceand what happens with that
human experience?
It leaves a woman veryvulnerable, and so who is there
to protect that vulnerability?
it needs to be a man, or atleast, or at least someone who
(27:57):
is not pregnant right someonewho's not experiencing
postpartum depression, so like,I think that is like the, the
ideal situation in which, likeyou know, young men are able to
kind of put their testosteroneto use all right, like, like to
find kind of meaning in that,and that that's what I see is
(28:21):
protection, um, and and whetherthat's physical, I don't, I
don't know but it could alsojust mean, like advocating for
more with benefits, right,advocating for more in the
workplace, like, hey, I needmore paid leave right like that
is a.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
I see that as protection yeah, and that's what
, uh, that's what professorgalloway said.
Because if you take the transissue for a second, this new um,
I want to say new because it'sbeen, there's been evidence of
it in ancient society as wellbut like the growing ideology of
(29:01):
like what it means to be a manand really attacks our sense of
manhood in a way but it alsodoesn't leave that attack is not
(29:22):
is also creating space fortrans people and non-binary
people that are also beingpersecuted by the more
traditional ideas of genderidentity, to where now there are
physical persecutions, thereare mental persecutions that
they're trying to, that theyalso have to deal with, and
(29:45):
we're not being attacked inthose same set of ways.
So as a man, our protectiveinstinct should be to also
protect them as well bychampioning from other men, yeah
from other men yeahand like that's at one point
that professor galloway saidthat I would think.
(30:05):
Well, I think was enlighteningin the fact that, but I feel
like it also gets into thispoint of being like, of the
seven persons, a person beinglike, okay, I don't need you to
protect me, you know, like transpeople, like I don't need you
to protect me, you know I don'tneed a single mom who is
(30:32):
pregnant, you know I don't needyou to protect me.
And it's like, okay, if youdon't need me here.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I think that's so like it's, but it's just so like
I think that is so it's such asymptom of like the rugged
individualism thing, such asymptom of like the rugged
individualism thing of like wehave been so deeply conditioned
to think like yeah, like it'sit's very human to just do
(31:01):
everything on our own.
Oh, no, it's not.
Like, like that's.
What sets us as humans, apartfrom, you know, like other
living creatures is that, like,we can communicate, right, we
have these like forms ofinterdependency that are so
complex and intricate, andthat's like it can break us
(31:25):
apart, but it can also allow usto do incredible things and like
go beyond our, you know, ourmicrobiome, not our microbiomes,
our biomes, right, um, andactually like leave the earth,
for example.
Um, so, and that's just aresult of like community working
(31:46):
together um interdependency.
So when I hear people beinglike I don't need you to protect
me, it's not coming from a badplace, but it's just coming from
it's a defense mechanism.
You've been brought up in asociety where to depend on
someone else is to be weak, andI just don't see that as
(32:09):
weakness is what I'm trying tosay.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Very much so.
It's not weakness at all, and Idon't.
I just don't see that asweakness is what I'm trying to
say.
Very much so, it's not weaknessat all, and I think the reality
is that you may not need me toprotect you.
However, we all need each otherfor us to move forward.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yeah, and also it's and this is Bell Hooks, she
talks about this a lot.
There's been more research onthis as of recently as to, like,
why service is important, and Ithink, like service is one of
those things that is reallyalmost inseparable from love.
Women tend to get love a littlebit better than men do, because
(32:59):
women serve in ways that menaren't like asked to do.
Like when it comes todelivering a baby, like that is
an act of service, you know,like that's like not just to the
child, but to humanity.
Yeah, um, to raise a child,like that is an everyday act of
service.
Um, and so now we're seeing that, okay, more people like, yes,
(33:21):
there's like a rational, logicalpiece of like, oh, if I help
this person, um, they'll bebetter off or whatever.
But like, oftentimes theservice helps the person doing
the service more than the personbeing served.
Um, and so, yeah, I think liketo to what we're talking about
in this like situation wherelike, oh, I don't need your help
.
Well, it's like, well, I needto help you, like I need to help
(33:43):
someone.
Like there's so much humanityto be found in the act of
extending yourself to anotherperson.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Yeah, I think that's really apt and I think that gets
into this next question of like.
So we've broken down like sortof like how masculinity and
being a man has beenhistorically useful, how it's
been sort of manipulated bypolitics, how it's now being
(34:16):
morphed with not morphed, buthow it's changing with new ideas
about gender identity and butnow it's like I think the
question is like what have weseen as educators, as coaches,
with this up and cominggeneration?
Where there, where we say nowthat there is this concern for
(34:38):
young men growing up?
Now?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
I think it's so like.
The question we came up withearlier was like is this
generation of young men soft?
And I thought that was such abeautiful question because I I
want to lean in and just say yesand not for the like, the
typical reasons of like, oh,like, they don't know hard work
(35:03):
and no, they know hard work, butthey don't know service,
service, right.
Like the process of actuallysetting aside, like what is
beastly of you, like my lowlydesires, putting those to the
side and then prioritizingsomeone else who's in a
(35:27):
vulnerable state, like that iswhat's lacking.
Think, um, like I saw this, uh,this clip the other day it was I
don't know what it was on, butit was some guy talking about,
like him being six, four andlike making six figures, and
(35:47):
he's like, yeah, like I'm thiskind of top end man, like he's.
He's like, yeah, like I'm thiskind of top end man, like he's,
he's measuring himself in a way,um, that I think is inherently
flawed.
I'm just saying, like I'mtaller than most guys, I make
more money, so I deserve likethe baddest chick, like I you
know what I mean like I deservethe best of the best.
Well, it's like, okay, well,what is it beyond those
(36:13):
measurables?
That like someone actuallywants in a partner?
Again, like we're separate fromgender, whatever, they need to
be able to trust you and need tobe able to trust you in a way
that says I'm actually able toagain put my own desires aside
for the benefit of you yeah, Ithink I think there is.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
To the question of is this generation of men softer?
And I will say that answer ismore yes than it is no, because
there is a inflated sense of egoin this up-and-coming
generation where it breeds intothis sense of entitlement to
(37:10):
some things.
It breathes into this lack ofaccountability for your actions
or like your emotions even LikeI think I've found in myself and
in my relationships where Ireally have to work at being
accountable for my emotions incertain instances and being
(37:32):
accountable to my, to the impactthat I impose on to others.
Now I've seen countless intimes examples that people do
not understand, or young mendon't understand, that there are
consequences to actions yeah.
(37:55):
And, and there are also rewardsto actions as well.
Yeah, but you should never be.
I think there has been thisinflated thing, or this
increasing thing of rewardingEverything, or like everything.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Well, I mean everything, you know you kind of
spoke to it of just like the,the disease of me, right, like
um, there's a malcolm x quote.
It says, um, even illness, when, when we replace his eye,
(38:37):
illness becomes wellness.
Like that's bars bro, like, butit's, and there's so much truth
in it.
And like we're living in aworld where, like, I think we
were on the, the tail end ofthis where we got a bit of it,
but not quite what it is now.
And it's where we're like, ifyou're 13, you get iPhone, pad,
(39:01):
mac, I, I, I.
It's all about the I.
It's not about you, it's notthe you phone, it's not the you,
you know what I mean.
It's not about you, it's notthe you phone, it's not you, you
know what I mean.
And so the world of thealgorithm, it's like all
(39:21):
tailored to the individual.
And then, like, I think back tothat question of like are young
men softer?
Yes, and like I think porn isis one of the worst things
that's happening.
And I don't blame, I don'tblame young men for that.
That's the thing.
Because it's like, are we?
(39:41):
And I'm starting to kind oflike, think about it from the
perspective of like a mentor,right, like an older generation?
So it's all we're doing.
We're saying to to these youngmen yeah, the world out there is
evil.
There's a lot of porn, there'sa lot of drugs out there, but
just be strong Like go out Bro.
That's crazy.
(40:01):
It's crazy.
So, like we, as the oldergeneration, we can't just like
vilify and like wag our fingers.
We have to like create spaceswhere young men, young people,
just feel comfortable, umtalking about like the desire I
think, just the inherent desireto want to belong to something,
(40:25):
um to be part of something yeah,I think that's a sort of good
way to start wrapping it up,where it's like there is this
need for generational guidancein society period, there is this
need for leadership from olderpeople.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Now, that is not to say that all older people have
the blueprint to success in life, to purpose, and I think it's
to say that we as younger peopleand them as older people can
both learn from each other thisis a symbiotic relationship
(41:06):
where, again, it takes all of usto move forward.
So it takes us, as theburgeoning older generation, for
us to continue to reach back tothese younger generations and
pull them up like that seehappening and this is and it
comes with.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
so, like I'm so mixed about it, like more and more
young people are just what theycall divorcing their parents,
like, um, not like some kind offormal divorce, but just like
not talking to their parentsanymore, which I understand
right, like a lot of us havelike traumas and things like
(41:46):
that, and and and again, likefrom a psychological perspective
.
I think this it goes to whatyou're saying about like
learning has to go both ways,where I think older generations
have a lot of learning to dowhen it comes about like
emotions, but then they have thewisdom when it comes to like
(42:10):
the society right and like whatit takes to keep this thing
moving ahead.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
Anyways, I think we should start wrapping it up here
so we can, uh, stick to ourgoals of trying to keep these
episodes a little bit moreconcise, and we've already.
We've y'all don't know this,but Tash and I have already had
a long diatribe about nature andthings like that, so I know
(42:39):
that this we're in a mood wherethis can go on for another two
and a half hours and I think wewould just be citing circles
back and forth again.
So Taz at the end of the dayyes, yes, men are softer.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Should, should gender show up in politics?
We don't know, but it does.
We don't know if it should, butit is there and there's.
There's something that needs tochange with politics.
Uh, to make better men.
That's what we know very true.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Well, with that synopsis, I hope you guys have a
wonderful holiday leading usinto the new year.
Who knows if we'll put anotherepisode out before the new year,
but if this is the last episodeof 2024, it has been a great
year.
Um, we are still working onourselves, working on this
podcast and making it sure thatit will be the best listening
(43:39):
experience for you guys in orderfor us to grow, you know?
Um, a couple pieces of advice.
Share the podcast.
If you are looking for anunbiased news source, breaking
points does a great job.
Well, no, I shouldn't say thatthey are biased.
But if you are looking for abalanced and honest news source,
breaking Points is a greatsource for you.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
And I would also say, guys, as easy as it can be to
really hyper-focus on what'shappening to us in America.
What's happening to us inAmerica, what is happening for
us as Americans, has just asmuch to do with what's happening
outside of America as it has todo with what's happening inside
(44:23):
of America.
I think it can be really easyto get caught up on this.
You know these kind of culturalissues.
But again, like, what isundeniable is that money moves,
and, uh, money moves in a lot ofdifferent ways, and so try to
(44:45):
stay abreast of what's happeningabroad.
Um, it can be easy to kind ofput your head in the sand and
try to just be like, oh, that's,that doesn't concern me, but
the fact of the matter is itdoes.
So start out, try to stay, staywoke, if you will.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
All right, well, guys , that has been another episode
of the new black podcast.
Stay blessed, stay back.
We'll see you the next time,thank you.
Greetings everyone.
It's Taj Davis here, joined byHerb Wakefield, and we are here
to deliver this next episode ofthe New Black Podcast to you all
.
It's currently December 1st2024, and I'm feeling like the
(00:25):
topic of this podcast mostly hasto do with the state of men, um
, in our Western world at thismoment in time.
Herb, how you doing man?
Is there anything else to addon to that of what we're trying
to deliver to the people today?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
No man.
How's everybody doing?
No, I think the topic today isthis, essentially this what is
called the young men epidemic,where there have been this sense
in Western society that youngmen are losing this sense of
(01:02):
purpose in society and we wantto try and unpack that a little
bit today, showing giving someof our thoughts and some of our
anecdotal evidence of workingvery closely like this next
generation of men who are comingup in the virginia and
baltimore area.
So, yeah, it should be a funconversation and hopefully
(01:24):
insightful for people to listento and to give our perspective
as two young men in this societyand dealing with it and it's
really interesting to kind ofwhat you just said.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
There is like our audience, um, I think about that
quite a bit.
It's like who's ask myselfwho's listening to this podcast,
and I think we actually have afairly diverse spread of
listeners.
I think we have, obviously,folks who are around our age,
but then also folks who areolder, maybe trying to get a
(01:57):
better sense of what's going onwith the young folks, and then I
think we also have, maybe somefolks who are a bit younger than
us trying to find some wisdom.
So I actually see this more soas like trying to explain more
so to folks who are older thanus or around our same age than
as to like tailoring us towardsyounger folks.
(02:20):
I don't think younger folks aregoing to listen to this.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
If I'm being real, I mean, you never know.
I mean we've also talked abouton an earlier podcast I believe
this is in 2023 about a similartopic regarding Andrew Tate,
with a guest I forget his name,but Charles Charles and yeah, I
(02:42):
mean that focuses more on thedating side of things, but I
believe today we're going to befocusing more so on what it
actually means to be a man inthis society and how that could
be challenging, I think so thefirst question that I think will
let us get into this topic ishow does gender show up in
(03:06):
politics and should it show upin politics?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
so yeah, I'm pitching that question to you, herb how
does gender show up in politicsand should it show up in
politics?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I think gender shows up in politics in a way where it
has been manipulated as asource of power, in a sense that
gender and gender ideology hasbeen this manipulating force in
order for people to get votesand retain their power to where.
(03:38):
I believe that not a lot ofpeople really believe in some of
the things they're saying, butI feel like the past election
has brought up a lot ofquestions of gender that are
interesting and honestly need tobe reconciled in America.
Still Now.
Is it going to be answered withthis incoming administration?
(04:01):
Answered with this incomingadministration administration?
No, I don't think the ideologyof gender is a conversation that
is ever going to be written instone and come solidified as law
.
You know, I think it's going tobe an ongoing conversation and
this stuff is going to evolve,but as far as that it pertains
to politics, I don't.
(04:23):
It's hard for me to see why andthe way I view this is the
question of this should agovernment be responsible for
controlling the ideology ofgender that is in its country?
My answer to that is no.
I think that a government'sresponsibility is to ensure the
(04:43):
safety of all people in itscountry.
Now that will start to pertaininto what rights and liberties
are afforded to people andgenders, but it's not for a
government to say oh, the onlytwo genders identities that this
country is going to observe ismale and female and they're
(05:07):
going to be assigned at birth.
I don't think it's the role ofthe government to take that
stance.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
That's a beautiful response to the question and
thorough.
I think I have a slightly Idon't know if I disagree with
you, but I'll add somethingdifferent to that second part of
the question.
Um, yeah, I think gendershowing up in politics in a way
that's unprecedented I hateusing that word, but I'll tend
(05:38):
to look at things through a morehistorical lens.
Of like, in this country, it'snot until you know the last
lifetime, right like thelifetime of our grandparents,
that we've had to consider, um,you know, women and people of
color actually voting andactually mattering in the
(06:00):
political sense.
Uh, like votes, obviously theymattered in politics, but they
couldn't vote, um, and so nowit's showing up in ways that's
like okay, well, we have toactually cater to not just like
white men, but men of all colors, um, of all socioeconomic
statuses, um, and now women aswell, right, so, like, this is,
(06:23):
this is new, um, and I thinkthat's women women, like trans,
identifying people andnon-binary people as well.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Like, I think the the major thing of like because, as
you said, gender has beenprevalent in politics ever since
the founders said that onlywhite men, landowning men, are
allowed to vote.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
But I think the question today is like what is
is how we conceptualize gender,the way we're going to move
forward, and I think thatquestion is a little bit more
difficult to say well, and it'slike the weird thing and I don't
know what I was listening to,or maybe it's something that you
(07:04):
actually shared with me waslike, if you go around I know it
was something in breakingpoints, I believe, which is a
podcast we both listened to, andso they were just going around
to like different men in, likeAfrica, asia, whatever, asking
whether they wanted to seeKamala or Trump, and most people
said Trump because, like they,just Trump to them demonstrates
(07:29):
like what they idealize as a man, um, and so he has a lot of
leverage in determining whatpeople ascribe to being a man in
America.
Uh, and I also think likethere's a really insidious part
of it, too, where, regardless ofwhat is being, how that cloud,
(07:55):
that leverage, is being directed, people are being utilized for
some ulterior motive, like likehe, whatever that motive is, it
is not the spiritual, physical,emotional growth of these young
people, and so in my world, Isee gender showing up in
(08:21):
politics in a way that's veryresentful, uh, in a way in which
you know, and I gravitatetowards thinking about young men
honestly, because they are theones who are feeling like the
world is against them, um, andthey're seeing their vote as an
outlet to that, as a way tosolve whatever it is.
(08:42):
They think that, um, the worldis trying to stop them from, and
I guess from the, themeasurables of like okay, um,
gender shows up in importantways.
Like less the birth rates arelower right, that affects,
regardless of your gender, likethat's affecting the human race.
(09:03):
Boom, boom.
Home ownership dropping rightand traditionally again in
America, like there's this likerugged individualism that's like
so closely associated with,like colonialism and capitalism,
to where, like you got to goout, you got to conquer, you got
to conquer the people, you gotto conquer the land, you got to
(09:23):
provide for your family, right,Like that's what we're talking
about here.
And so now young men aren'table to like buy houses, they're
not able to provide in thefinancial sense, and so they're
feeling stymied, um, and sothey're giving a lot of that
power to the, to the state, andin this case, the state is
(09:45):
Donald Trump.
Should it show up.
Um, it's interesting, like Iagain I said earlier, like I
recently watched the recentadaptation of roots and like one
of the things that that reallysticks out to me in that is like
the right of passage, the riteof passage, like they, they
(10:10):
highlight the mandinka rite ofpassage for that all the young
men go through and it reallyemphasizes okay, what does a
culture prioritize really?
and um, and I think there's aplace for that and I don't know
exactly what it is for us in theAmerican context, because, I
look around, every culture, thehistory of humans has some kind
(10:33):
of rite of passage, whether itwas the Romans, the Greeks, you
know, the West Africans, theEast Africans, the Arabs, like
everyone has some kind of riteof passage the Latinos but for
us, we don't have that, and so Ifeel like until we have
(10:53):
something like that, there willalways be a void.
So I think that people needsome kind of meaning associated
with their gender, and I feellike in America we have taken
power away from families, not ina like, oh, we want to take
power away from the families way, but capital has reigned
(11:14):
supreme.
Like we have prioritizedcapital over time to spend with
families, for example, and youknow the ability for families to
really like live their values.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
So if that's the world we live in, I think maybe
the state could or should havesome kind of say in how you know
gender shows up that'sinteresting because I would, I
would, I would, I would, I wouldsay that it's the state's more
(11:52):
so responsibility to regulatecapital than it is to regulate
families.
Yeah, which seems as a verylike conservative I think.
I don't know if that is aconservative viewpoint I don't
know it's, it's weird yeah, Ithink the political landscape
has become so discombobulatedthat, you know, there are things
(12:16):
in the on the right that Iagree with, there are things on
the left that I agree with, butthere are things I vehemently
disagree on.
There's more things I vehementlydisagree with on the right than
there is on the left.
But, yeah, this relegation offamilies and this
(12:37):
hyper-individualistic world thatwe live in, I think that I
think, in those like rites ofpassages that you're talking
about, it makes, I think, thereis a greater sense of what it
means to be a part of yourgender, because there is that
communal sense and that communalrole that you have to fill,
(13:02):
where there isn't necessarilythese defined roles anymore in
um, in modern civilization whichis probably why we don't have
these rites of passages likethey did back then because there
are like like yeah, like allright, you're 13, now you're a
man, you can do whatever, like Imean, I think you see these
(13:26):
rites of passages, however, inlike very um, what are can be
considered and very like, notarchaic, but like um, older.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
So if there's anything that's like combat
related, like the military hasrites of passages yes you know,
because it's still a very liketribal and sense nature of
warfare in that sense and Ithink the rite of passage it
shows you in a way, like how tolove and like what you value in
(14:01):
relationship to love and likeand I'm thinking a lot about how
, about how bell hooks defineslove as like something that like
fosters, kind of like I saidearlier the spiritual growth of
someone else and also somethingthat you're willing to fight and
die for.
So I think the rite of passageit tells you like these are
(14:26):
things that are worth fightingfor, like this is like why we're
all here, essentially and whywe're unified.
And until something like thatcan give young people meaning,
and until something like thatcan give young people meaning, I
just think people are going tobe wayward, without purpose.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Yeah, and you're going to see a lot of the
(15:11):
extremism that I think we'retrying to focus on here.
Yeah, I think, and I realizethe there was a quote that I was
referring to before we startedrecording where there's a notion
that this sort of like not Idon't want to say the attacks,
but like this sort of like, thissort of like interjection of
like what it means to be a manin today's day and age, teeters
(15:32):
on the outcomes either beingdangerous men or useless men.
Right, and now people are moreso on the now it seems like it's
going to um, lean more towardsthis useless man era, and it is
(15:57):
of my opinion that acivilization of useless men is a
civilization that is I don'twant to say like is a vulnerable
, is a vulnerable civilizationas a whole you know, very
vulnerable and maybe evenvulnerable from ourselves yeah
(16:18):
um, you know, and and I think avery easy thing- yeah, Like you
know, like an easy way to finduse is to pick up a weapon and
go fight, something like itdoesn't take.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
I mean, yes, it takes training to like move in drill
and, you know, in unison, but aslong as you're able, bodied
like, you can do that there's,there's, there's no barrier to
entry there, um, and so it'sinteresting too, like and this
is the last thing I'll say aboutroots, but like last thing I'm
(16:58):
saying about roots is crazy he'slike pressed, that like they,
they tell him like they're goingthrough the mandinka warrior
training and they're telling himthe most important thing for a
mandinka warrior to do is to tostart a family of his own and to
like to extend the values to afuture generation.
(17:21):
And and when Kunta is brought toAmerica, his mind is so set on
like nah, I'm going back toAfrica, like I'm not starting a
family here in this decrepitstate, and so kind of what
you're saying of like uselessmen.
Like he saw his future, likehis future, like his family's
future in america is beinguseless.
(17:43):
But then finally he realized,like it's not even about that so
much, and so he finally, likeyou know, got married has a kid,
and then he's still thinkingwait, um, this is more so about
honoring the people who wereperforming right and like
honoring my parents and thestories that they pass on to me,
(18:05):
and if I don't pass it down,those things die.
So I need to pass it down.
And he has a daughter right.
And then the daughter's likewell, can I be a mandinka
warrior?
and he's like no, but like I'm atrainee nonetheless, like like
he, he kind of adapted it to tryand train his daughter in a way
that like makes her able, rightand makes her useful, um, and
(18:29):
at a certain point, like sheeven talks about, like her
intellect as something that,like she took on for herself,
like that is her ability to beuseful, um, because you know she
can't go out and be free, likethis is an extreme circumstance
where people are enslaved, solike that is the epitome of
(18:49):
feeling useless.
But they're still feeling likeokay, if I can read these books,
I can be of some use.
I don't know how this againrelates back to gender showing
up in politics, uh, but I feellike it definitely relates to
gender so so my point is thatregardless of whether you're a
(19:11):
man or whether you're a woman.
Identifying non-binary you needmeaning as related to how your
gender is seen in society orwhat your role in society is.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Yeah, exactly, um, I think there is a.
I do think there is anantiquated view of gender roles
that we have in society, butthere is a specific.
I think there is a need for setroles in order to define
(19:47):
purpose in people's lives.
Now, I don't think that setroles are going to be
necessarily split below what itmeans to be of like, having
characteristics of moremasculine characteristics or
(20:08):
feminine characteristics asdefined by, um biological sex.
Um, it could be roles based onjust individual, um abilities,
as women will, may women, somewomen may be better at men and
at men than men at some things,rather than and vice versa.
Um, but then that begs thequestion of like.
(20:31):
Okay, if that's the case, thenwhat does it still mean?
Does it make masculinity goaway?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
well, it's interesting because no I think
this now we can loop in gallowaya little bit, um and, like the,
the modern research, right.
So they talk about gender rolesbeing antiquated.
Well, it's like.
Well, one of the things that Ithink is a huge sell for all
male schools is that males andfemales cognitively develop
(21:04):
differently, and so one of thethings that rob galloway kind of
really highlights, um, is thatby the time you know when you're
talking about especially thehigh school age, young women,
they are operating at an adultlevel, whereas, like the 18 year
old boy, like he's operating ona child level, and so I think
(21:30):
that's one of the places where,yeah, like when it comes to, uh,
like in the, in societal, whatthe societal, what the society
needs, okay, well, women arebetter equipped to be making
important decisions at youngerages.
So we need to actually elevatethem, you know, into these
(21:52):
leadership roles and things likethat.
But the thing is at the end ofthe day, kind of talking about,
like physical skills and thingslike that, um, a man is going to
be more adept to protecting.
I think, like you can ask a lotof women out there like, yeah,
(22:13):
whatever decision she makes atwork, great, but at the end of
the day, she wants to feelprotected, and so I think that
is something that I would liketo see young men prioritize more
.
Yeah, in all walks of life.
Like, regardless of what kindof money you can make, are you
(22:35):
at least emotionally intelligentenough to know that you need to
be consistent?
Like you need to be consistentand showing up in a way that
another human being can be like,oh yeah, that's my guy.
Like I trust him.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Yeah, I think I think we should break down what
protectiveness means in thatsense, cause we're not saying
that, oh, women cannot protectthemselves.
Do I believe that if we had theoption?
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I think I hate to get because this is going to sound
sexist, but like it's gonna,that's the problem but like this
is real, this is real, like so,so, and I think one of the one
of the if I get in a fight, I'mnot, I'm gonna call my brother
rather than my sister is likeright the thing, but that's like
a very tribalistic view ofprotectionism, I think but even,
(23:28):
even I think even protection on, like a family level, for
example, like, um, when youthink about like cycles right,
like men are, we have a cycle.
We don't't talk about it.
Our cycle is daily, though,like the start of the day, our
testosterone is the highest.
Why is that?
Why is that?
(23:51):
Well, it's like we're supposedto be getting up and doing
something.
We got to go do something.
You know what I mean.
There has to be that that likeand galloway talks about like
men being maybe inherentlybetter at like initiating um,
and that being kind of like justimportant for any kind of
success, uh, whereas like, awoman's cycle is obviously
(24:13):
monthly.
So, when we're thinking abouthormonal cycles is what you're
describing yeah, like a hormonalcycle, and so I think, like a
sign of a wise man isunderstanding a woman's cycle,
and I think a sign of a wisewoman is also understanding her
own cycle in a way of, and Idon't think there's anything
(24:38):
sexist about that like.
That's very humanist, I feellike, but it's it's.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
It's strange that we can't or feel sexist when we
talk about it yeah, and I Ithink that is because and I
think that's one of the tropesthat we fall into um, and one of
the pitfalls that we fall intois that a lot of this talk about
how we are able to support menin society has been manipulated
(25:08):
into this very misogynisticrhetoric, and I'm really
attempting not to fall into thatsame category of saying, oh,
women do this, they can only dothis, blah, blah, blah.
I think there is.
The fact is that, for somereason, being a man in today's
(25:33):
society is undergoing thistransformation from what is
deemed to be traditional valuesof masculinity as far as
aggression or protectiveness, orbeing a provider, and these
instances that are that a lot ofyoung men are wrestling with.
(25:57):
I think, because we are stillgoing, young men are going
through this in that timebetween like 16 and 25 years old
, this very pubescent time framewhere it's like you're being
pent up with all thistestosterone, you don't really
know what to do with it and youdon't have any purpose if you
don't have any directive to orpurpose to drive that into.
(26:20):
Like it's difficult and to say,like the natural, the
historical roles where thosetypes of things could be
impressed are now sort of beingstripped back in a way, causes
this confusion within ourmasculinity in itself, where
(26:41):
it's like okay, what do I dowith these things, these things
that are been I want to saygiven you know, and that's not
to say that and I think that thegreatest, I think that the
greatest thing that we can do asmen today is be able to adapt
(27:03):
now.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
I think the greatest thing that we can do right now
is adapt to what it now means tobe protective, what it now
means to be a provider, what itnow means I think there's a, I
think more so what it means tobe a man now is being able to
trust, being able to be reliable, you know I think like there's
something kind of again likebuilding off of what I was
(27:31):
saying with cycles, right, youknow, we have some friends who
just found out they're pregnant.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
That's great again like this is.
This is such a human experienceand what happens with that
human experience?
It leaves a woman veryvulnerable, and so who is there
to protect that vulnerability?
it needs to be a man, or atleast, or at least someone who
(27:57):
is not pregnant right someonewho's not experiencing
postpartum depression, so like,I think that is like the, the
ideal situation in which, likeyou know, young men are able to
kind of put their testosteroneto use all right, like, like to
find kind of meaning in that,and that that's what I see is
(28:21):
protection, um, and and whetherthat's physical, I don't, I
don't know but it could alsojust mean, like advocating for
more with benefits, right,advocating for more in the
workplace, like, hey, I needmore paid leave right like that
is a.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
I see that as protection yeah, and that's what
, uh, that's what professorgalloway said.
Because if you take the transissue for a second, this new um,
I want to say new because it'sbeen, there's been evidence of
it in ancient society as wellbut like the growing ideology of
(29:01):
like what it means to be a manand really attacks our sense of
manhood in a way but it alsodoesn't leave that attack is not
(29:22):
is also creating space fortrans people and non-binary
people that are also beingpersecuted by the more
traditional ideas of genderidentity, to where now there are
physical persecutions, thereare mental persecutions that
they're trying to, that theyalso have to deal with, and
(29:45):
we're not being attacked inthose same set of ways.
So as a man, our protectiveinstinct should be to also
protect them as well bychampioning from other men, yeah
from other men yeahand like that's at one point
that professor galloway saidthat I would think.
(30:05):
Well, I think was enlighteningin the fact that, but I feel
like it also gets into thispoint of being like, of the
seven persons, a person beinglike, okay, I don't need you to
protect me, you know, like transpeople, like I don't need you
to protect me, you know I don'tneed a single mom who is
(30:32):
pregnant, you know I don't needyou to protect me.
And it's like, okay, if youdon't need me here.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I think that's so like it's, but it's just so like
I think that is so it's such asymptom of like the rugged
individualism thing, such asymptom of like the rugged
individualism thing of like wehave been so deeply conditioned
to think like yeah, like it'sit's very human to just do
(31:01):
everything on our own.
Oh, no, it's not.
Like, like that's.
What sets us as humans, apartfrom, you know, like other
living creatures is that, like,we can communicate, right, we
have these like forms ofinterdependency that are so
complex and intricate, andthat's like it can break us
(31:25):
apart, but it can also allow usto do incredible things and like
go beyond our, you know, ourmicrobiome, not our microbiomes,
our biomes, right, um, andactually like leave the earth,
for example.
Um, so, and that's just aresult of like community working
(31:46):
together um interdependency.
So when I hear people beinglike I don't need you to protect
me, it's not coming from a badplace, but it's just coming from
it's a defense mechanism.
You've been brought up in asociety where to depend on
someone else is to be weak, andI just don't see that as
(32:09):
weakness is what I'm trying tosay.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Very much so.
It's not weakness at all, and Idon't.
I just don't see that asweakness is what I'm trying to
say.
Very much so, it's not weaknessat all, and I think the reality
is that you may not need me toprotect you.
However, we all need each otherfor us to move forward.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
Yeah, and also it's and this is Bell Hooks, she
talks about this a lot.
There's been more research onthis as of recently as to, like,
why service is important, and Ithink, like service is one of
those things that is reallyalmost inseparable from love.
Women tend to get love a littlebit better than men do, because
(32:59):
women serve in ways that menaren't like asked to do.
Like when it comes todelivering a baby, like that is
an act of service, you know,like that's like not just to the
child, but to humanity.
Yeah, um, to raise a child,like that is an everyday act of
service.
Um, and so now we're seeing that, okay, more people like, yes,
(33:21):
there's like a rational, logicalpiece of like, oh, if I help
this person, um, they'll bebetter off or whatever.
But like, oftentimes theservice helps the person doing
the service more than the personbeing served.
Um, and so, yeah, I think liketo to what we're talking about
in this like situation wherelike, oh, I don't need your help
.
Well, it's like, well, I needto help you, like I need to help
(33:43):
someone.
Like there's so much humanityto be found in the act of
extending yourself to anotherperson.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Yeah, I think that's really apt and I think that gets
into this next question of like.
So we've broken down like sortof like how masculinity and
being a man has beenhistorically useful, how it's
been sort of manipulated bypolitics, how it's now being
(34:16):
morphed with not morphed, buthow it's changing with new ideas
about gender identity and butnow it's like I think the
question is like what have weseen as educators, as coaches,
with this up and cominggeneration?
Where there, where we say nowthat there is this concern for
(34:38):
young men growing up?
Now?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
I think it's so like.
The question we came up withearlier was like is this
generation of young men soft?
And I thought that was such abeautiful question because I I
want to lean in and just say yesand not for the like, the
typical reasons of like, oh,like, they don't know hard work
(35:03):
and no, they know hard work, butthey don't know service,
service, right.
Like the process of actuallysetting aside, like what is
beastly of you, like my lowlydesires, putting those to the
side and then prioritizingsomeone else who's in a
(35:27):
vulnerable state, like that iswhat's lacking.
Think, um, like I saw this, uh,this clip the other day it was I
don't know what it was on, butit was some guy talking about,
like him being six, four andlike making six figures, and
(35:47):
he's like, yeah, like I'm thiskind of top end man, like he's.
He's like, yeah, like I'm thiskind of top end man, like he's,
he's measuring himself in a way,um, that I think is inherently
flawed.
I'm just saying, like I'mtaller than most guys, I make
more money, so I deserve likethe baddest chick, like I you
know what I mean like I deservethe best of the best.
Well, it's like, okay, well,what is it beyond those
(36:13):
measurables?
That like someone actuallywants in a partner?
Again, like we're separate fromgender, whatever, they need to
be able to trust you and need tobe able to trust you in a way
that says I'm actually able toagain put my own desires aside
for the benefit of you yeah, Ithink I think there is.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
To the question of is this generation of men softer?
And I will say that answer ismore yes than it is no, because
there is a inflated sense of egoin this up-and-coming
generation where it breeds intothis sense of entitlement to
(37:10):
some things.
It breathes into this lack ofaccountability for your actions
or like your emotions even LikeI think I've found in myself and
in my relationships where Ireally have to work at being
accountable for my emotions incertain instances and being
(37:32):
accountable to my, to the impactthat I impose on to others.
Now I've seen countless intimes examples that people do
not understand, or young mendon't understand, that there are
consequences to actions yeah.
(37:55):
And, and there are also rewardsto actions as well.
Yeah, but you should never be.
I think there has been thisinflated thing, or this
increasing thing of rewardingEverything, or like everything.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Well, I mean everything, you know you kind of
spoke to it of just like the,the disease of me, right, like
um, there's a malcolm x quote.
It says, um, even illness, when, when we replace his eye,
(38:37):
illness becomes wellness.
Like that's bars bro, like, butit's, and there's so much truth
in it.
And like we're living in aworld where, like, I think we
were on the, the tail end ofthis where we got a bit of it,
but not quite what it is now.
And it's where we're like, ifyou're 13, you get iPhone, pad,
(39:01):
mac, I, I, I.
It's all about the I.
It's not about you, it's notthe you phone, it's not the you,
you know what I mean.
It's not about you, it's notthe you phone, it's not you, you
know what I mean.
And so the world of thealgorithm, it's like all
(39:21):
tailored to the individual.
And then, like, I think back tothat question of like are young
men softer?
Yes, and like I think porn isis one of the worst things
that's happening.
And I don't blame, I don'tblame young men for that.
That's the thing.
Because it's like, are we?
(39:41):
And I'm starting to kind oflike, think about it from the
perspective of like a mentor,right, like an older generation?
So it's all we're doing.
We're saying to to these youngmen yeah, the world out there is
evil.
There's a lot of porn, there'sa lot of drugs out there, but
just be strong Like go out Bro.
That's crazy.
(40:01):
It's crazy.
So, like we, as the oldergeneration, we can't just like
vilify and like wag our fingers.
We have to like create spaceswhere young men, young people,
just feel comfortable, umtalking about like the desire I
think, just the inherent desireto want to belong to something,
(40:25):
um to be part of something yeah,I think that's a sort of good
way to start wrapping it up,where it's like there is this
need for generational guidancein society period, there is this
need for leadership from olderpeople.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Now, that is not to say that all older people have
the blueprint to success in life, to purpose, and I think it's
to say that we as younger peopleand them as older people can
both learn from each other thisis a symbiotic relationship
(41:06):
where, again, it takes all of usto move forward.
So it takes us, as theburgeoning older generation, for
us to continue to reach back tothese younger generations and
pull them up like that seehappening and this is and it
comes with.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
so, like I'm so mixed about it, like more and more
young people are just what theycall divorcing their parents,
like, um, not like some kind offormal divorce, but just like
not talking to their parentsanymore, which I understand
right, like a lot of us havelike traumas and things like
(41:46):
that, and and and again, likefrom a psychological perspective
.
I think this it goes to whatyou're saying about like
learning has to go both ways,where I think older generations
have a lot of learning to dowhen it comes about like
emotions, but then they have thewisdom when it comes to like
(42:10):
the society right and like whatit takes to keep this thing
moving ahead.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
Anyways, I think we should start wrapping it up here
so we can, uh, stick to ourgoals of trying to keep these
episodes a little bit moreconcise, and we've already.
We've y'all don't know this,but Tash and I have already had
a long diatribe about nature andthings like that, so I know
(42:39):
that this we're in a mood wherethis can go on for another two
and a half hours and I think wewould just be citing circles
back and forth again.
So Taz at the end of the dayyes, yes, men are softer.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Should, should gender show up in politics?
We don't know, but it does.
We don't know if it should, butit is there and there's.
There's something that needs tochange with politics.
Uh, to make better men.
That's what we know very true.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Well, with that synopsis, I hope you guys have a
wonderful holiday leading usinto the new year.
Who knows if we'll put anotherepisode out before the new year,
but if this is the last episodeof 2024, it has been a great
year.
Um, we are still working onourselves, working on this
podcast and making it sure thatit will be the best listening
(43:39):
experience for you guys in orderfor us to grow, you know?
Um, a couple pieces of advice.
Share the podcast.
If you are looking for anunbiased news source, breaking
points does a great job.
Well, no, I shouldn't say thatthey are biased.
But if you are looking for abalanced and honest news source,
breaking Points is a greatsource for you.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
And I would also say, guys, as easy as it can be to
really hyper-focus on what'shappening to us in America.
What's happening to us inAmerica, what is happening for
us as Americans, has just asmuch to do with what's happening
outside of America as it has todo with what's happening inside
(44:23):
of America.
I think it can be really easyto get caught up on this.
You know these kind of culturalissues.
But again, like, what isundeniable is that money moves,
and, uh, money moves in a lot ofdifferent ways, and so try to
(44:45):
stay abreast of what's happeningabroad.
Um, it can be easy to kind ofput your head in the sand and
try to just be like, oh, that's,that doesn't concern me, but
the fact of the matter is itdoes.
So start out, try to stay, staywoke, if you will.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
All right, well, guys , that has been another episode
of the new black podcast.
Stay blessed, stay back.
We'll see you the next time,thank you.
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