January 25, 2023 • 27 mins
In this episode of the ‘Nuclear Families Evangelist’ (A podcast that debunks the mythologies and biology by exploring the dynamics and relationships in blended families), host Traci Dority-Shanklin (Managing Partner at Sisu Partners) talks with guests Heather Hetchler, a columnist at Stepmom Magazine, a wife, a mom, stepmom, a thought leader and a coach for blended families with learning to step at e-learning platform for blended families.
The second guest is Ed Vargo, who has over 20 years of experience in the Financial Services industry and is the Founder of Burning River Advisory Group (A Wealth Management Firm that specializes in working with women experiencing significant life events, divorce, retirement, widowhood, etc.). Ed is also the founder of ‘EnlightenHer’ (A new women’s first financial education and coaching company).
Both the guests explain what financial infidelity is, and share their tips for blended families learning to communicate honestly and effectively about finances.
Three Key Points
1. Heather says, financial infidelity explains the pain that a stepmom might feel if she realizes that her husband's been giving money to his kids or his ex and not telling her. She's already maybe feeling a little bit like an outsider. She’d encourage women to stop to acknowledge what may be going on, but not go and accuse their husbands like they’ve been financially cheating on them because we do have to sometimes stop. It doesn't make it right. But sometimes, we're all a product of our childhood of what we've been through, and many times men and we're just talking about this in the context of stepmoms and husbands but who do sometimes make choices to keep the peace.
2. ED mentions that it’s not like they haven't made money but they haven't sat down together. They've just lived their life, and next year they wake up and it's like, “Oh, I'm on the doorstep of retirement”. That's why we had this big retirement crisis because typically, we find people that make enough money, they're just not connected enough to their money to be able to good with it and so, this structure allows them to be an accountability partner for each other.
3. Ed advice to a blended family so they stay financially present. It's just a reiteration of staying connected, like starting with our values, understanding what's important to us, and then making sure we're putting that in front of ourselves in front of us on a regular basis.
Resources Mentioned
· Heather Hetchler: Instagram Twitter
· ED Vargo: EnlightenHer (Website)
Contact:
Traci Dority-Shanklin: LinkedIn Twitter Facebook
traci@sisupartnersllc.com
website: www.nuclear-families.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (00:00):
Heather Hetchler And Ed Vargo return to
the podcast.
Heather is a columnist atStepmom Magazine.
A wife, a mom, a step-mom and athought leader and coach for
blended families with Learning 2Step, an e-learning platform.
Ed Vargo is the founder ofBurning River Advisory Group a
(00:21):
boutique wealth managementfirms, specializing in working
with women, experiencingsignificant life events,
divorce, retirement, andwidowhood.
He has over 20 years ofexperience in the financial
services industry and is thefounder of EnlightenedHer a new
women, first financial educationand coaching company.
(00:43):
We are jumping back into ourconversation about financial
infidelity, Heather and ed.
Explain what financialinfidelity is and share their
tips for blended families,learning to communicate honestly
and effectively about finances.
Let's get into it.
So getting back to the financialinfidelity, as I mentioned, I
(01:04):
have firsthand experience onboth as a child and, in my
marriage.
And, I think that it's, for me,it was, in both cases, my dad
giving me something that hedidn't tell my stepmother and
then stepping into an awkwardsituation when it became
apparent.
I just let the cat out of thebag.
(01:26):
and then also in my marriagewhere my husband did, what you
had said is that he to keep thepeace gave money to my
stepdaughter, did not share thatwith me.
And, it was a big deal.
This particular incident.
It was a really, it was a momentwhere we had to navigate this
(01:49):
break in trust in ourpartnership and had to go back
to some of the basics.
And we had to acknowledge thatwe had brought some money
baggage into our marriage.
I'm with my husband.
I think his infidelity wasrooted in his daddy guilt and
mine was really, a societal or afamily pre-programming that I
(02:11):
brought.
So I grew up in a home where themen were in charge of money,
regardless of who made themoney.
even when my mom was working,the financial control was
relinquished to her husband.
So I'm wondering if financialinfidelity is something that
either of you have dealt withpersonally?
If you're willing to share.
Ed Vargo (02:33):
I will say not really on my end, have I dealt with it
personally?
I'm a financial advisor, so Ihave a little bit of a leg up in
that regard.
I've seen a lot of it.
Certainly as an advisor, butalso just in, family and
friends, you hear it all thetime.
And it's, I think we shouldprobably define financial
infidelity for a then yeah, diginto it a little bit further.
(02:53):
it's really not complicated.
It's simply when a person hidesor withholds money-related
issues and decisions from theirpartner.
You're basically not tellingyour partner something about
money typically is what happens.
And it's not as obvious, likewhen we have physical cheating,
the rules of engagement arepretty clear.
What's acceptable.
(03:13):
What's not acceptable.
But when it comes to money orfinancial infidelity, it's not
obvious it's ambiguous becausewe don't know there is no set
line for what's acceptable andnot acceptable when it comes to
spending money.
So that's one of the firstbarriers is that if you're both
not on the same page, in termsof what is proper behavior, it's
very easy to deviate into,improper behavior without even
(03:37):
knowing.
Or, you live in that ambiguousworld where you kind of alive
think that this probably isn'tokay, but it's not been
discussed.
So you can hide behind that veilof I didn't know.
I didn't know that wasn't okay.
that it creates strife in therelationship.
So I think one of the firstthings is to identify as get on
the same page when it comes tomoney, what's an appropriate and
acceptable use of money in thecontext of our lives.
(04:00):
Given that aside, clearly thereare areas and you've outlined a
couple of them already where youknow, that's wrong.
that this isn't the best way tohandle our money situations.
And I'm doing something to maybeavoid a bigger problem.
but they don't have to be bigissues.
It could be as simple as like Anew golf club this weekend.
And I don't tell the wife, Oryou go out and you pick up
(04:22):
drinks for your friends or yourbuddies you're out.
And that's not reallyappropriate use of dollars, but
you don't share that.
So those are relatively minorthings.
And then you have the major, bigones, those true breaches of
trust.
And, and that's why I talkedabout earlier, like a lot of
money issues.
Aren't really money issues.
They're really bigger valuesissues.
(04:42):
Like I did.
I made a decision that broke ourtrust and money just happened to
be the conduit for that breachof trust.
So it happens all the time.
And it's one of those things.
I don't know if people think ofit in terms of infidelity.
Cause that's a very powerfulword, but I think if we started
thinking more along those lines,it might foster more
communication and help avoidsome of these problems before
(05:06):
they ever occurred.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (05:07):
Yeah.
I think it's a good word.
and I think, cause I think itreally did.
at the time that I was dealingwith it in my marriage, I didn't
really, I would not have coinedit that way, but that's what it
felt like.
It felt really that like thatbond, there was a break in that
trust that I didn't see coming.
And, it was, so it has to feel alot like infidelity feels, in
(05:32):
the, with the other definitionof the word infidelity.
So what are ways that we canprotect ourselves and our
nuclear families from financialinfidelity?
Is there, a series of activitiesthat blended families can do to
avoid this financial cheating?
Heather Hetchler (05:49):
I think one thing, one thing that my husband
and I agreed to it from the verybeginning, and it was, we have a
dollar amount that we check witheach other before we spend it.
So we have an unspoken budget,if he's out and, he sees a lawn
mower and he wants to get it orsomething like that, like we'll
check in with each other.
Hey, I saw this, I want to getthis.
And so clearly if we're checkingon that, we have that alignment
(06:10):
and I think too, I do think wehave to, the reason I think.
financial infidelity is a reallywise word to explain it because
it is a broken trust and it doeshurt.
So it explains the pain that, astep-mom might feel as she
realizes that her husband's beengiving money to his kids or his
ex and not telling her.
It feels she's already maybefeeling a little bit like an
(06:32):
outsider.
I think if you're listening tothis podcast too, I want to just
encourage you if you'relistening to this and you're
like, oh my gosh, that's what'sgoing on with me.
my husband has been financiallycheating on me.
It is very easy to begin tospiral with that.
That feels deep.
And that word is very, it's atender and deep word for us.
(06:52):
So I think I'd encourage womento stop, to acknowledge what may
be going on, but to not go and,accuse their husband.
You've been financially cheatingon me.
How dare you?
because I think we do have tosometimes stop it.
Doesn't make it right.
But sometimes.
we're all a product of ourchildhood of what we've been
through and many times men, andwe're just talking about this in
(07:14):
the context of stepmoms andhusbands, but, do sometimes make
choices to keep the peace.
So he most likely is notthinking, oh, I'm cheating on my
wife financially.
Oh, I'm breaking trust.
Oh, I don't value her.
That might be how the stepmotherfeels.
He's like, you know what?
I've got the extra money.
If it just keeps my ex happy,it'll keep my home happy.
(07:35):
It'll keep my wife happy.
He's not thinking about it inthe same context that it's
feeling for the woman.
And so I never want toinvalidate how difficult that
must feel to be on the receivingend of that.
But to also, calm down, processit and talk to your spouse.
When you can talk a little bitmore unemotionally about it and
(07:56):
share with them how it feels toyou.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (07:58):
It's wise advice.
fortunately in my case, I wasable to, intuitively know that I
actually just was like, I'mgoing to go out before I say
anything I need a time out for afew hours to figure out what
this conversation needs to looklike.
Because if I say something now Iwill probably regret it.
(08:19):
Yeah.
Do you counsel clients on how tomend from a financial
infidelity?
Heather Hetchler (08:25):
We do as a part of EnlightenedHer.
and I can talk more on this.
We have a program for moneymentors, so I wanted to money
mentors.
So if you go to lighten her suchfresh start, you can sign up for
a free clarity call with us.
And it's really, you know, itlooks a little bit different for
every woman because I'll sit andI'll listen to a woman.
I'll hear where she is.
(08:45):
I'll hear, where her moneymindset is, what she's
struggling with.
And then I'm able to puttogether a roadmap and coach her
through that.
So if there is a womanstruggling with financial
infidelity, wanting to maybeunderstand her finances, better
realizes that maybe she's alwaysbeen hands-off, I would love to
work with her and help coach herthrough that.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (09:05):
I assume this is tricky, but should
blended families keep theirfinances separate?
I mean, especially if there'schild support for a custodial
parent involved.
Ed Vargo (09:15):
And I think this depends.
Now you have to find what makesthe most sense for you as a
family.
But I don't think there's anyproblem with it, but I wouldn't
keep, I don't think this is anall or nothing type of question
either.
What seems to me works bestparticularly with blended
families or if you're marryinglater in life, You've had your,
you have your own money, you'vedone things your own way for so
long.
That's part of yourindependence.
(09:36):
That's part of your autonomy,right?
And so when you come togetherand you get married and
traditionally it used to be, yougot married much earlier you're
you had nothing together, cameinto it together.
So you just put all of your,nothingness, in one pot and it
worked fine.
And you built it over time.
we're not coming into theserelationships with substantial
wealth in some cases.
So your own income and inblended families, that's even
(09:57):
more because you have theseother complicating factors.
So what I think makes sense, ifyou had pick one way to go, I
think.
Having individual accounts thatyou deposit a certain amount of
money into per pay or per monthas an example.
And then you have a main jointchecking account for everything
else.
So all of your household bills,the marital items get paid out
of that account.
(10:18):
And this is just a framework tothink about, but let's say you
have your paychecks directlydeposited into the joint
account, and then you have yourtwo individual accounts and then
maybe a move out.
I don't know, 500 bucks a monthinto each of those accounts on
the first of the month has doneautomatically.
That's your money.
Do whatever you want with it.
I don't have to justify myspending.
If I want to blow it all on agolf club or dining out, or just
(10:42):
hoard my money, I can dowhatever I want.
It's mine.
So that gives me my sense ofautonomy, my sense of
independence.
And I don't feel like I've gotto check in with my spouse to go
spend money.
Cause nobody wants to feel thatway.
Especially if you, it doesn'tmatter if you make the money or
not.
No one wants to be beholden tothe other person at the same
time, the money in the jointaccount.
I know that money's being usedfor our marital needs.
(11:03):
So paying the mortgage, takingcare of the kids, know all the
other stuff that comes with it.
And then we can both see whathappens on that account.
And that's very importantbecause one of the problems with
women giving up their financialpower to men is they become
disconnected from the money.
And then that's when there'sthat disconnect, there's no
dialogue when there's nodialogue, mistakes happen or bad
(11:24):
things happen.
just all kinds of bad stuff canhappen, whether it's intentional
or not.
So I think a nice, happy mediumis to do what I just said.
each an individual accounthands-off for the other party.
And then we have this jointaccount where we can make
decisions and come together on.
And then what I would also, Itake that a step further is I
don't think we spend enough timelooking at our money on a
(11:45):
regular basis.
Like I look, obviously I'mdifferent because I'm a
financial advisor and I'mcompletely comfortable in this
world, but I'm looking at mystuff all the time, like
continuously.
Okay.
That's an extreme, I wouldn'trecommend that.
But if you're out there, doingthis, in conjunction with your
partner, I would once a weekjust do a quick check-in at
least once a month.
(12:05):
it's that important?
I think that's part of theproblem.
we don't.
Place enough emphasis onmanaging our cashflow.
We're really good at makingmoney.
I find people are good at goingto work, working hard, being
smart, doing those types ofthings.
And then the money just ends upin their account.
It's like in and out, they don'tthink that much about it.
And then a bunch of wastefulspending happens.
Wasteful in the sense that it'snot going to the most meaningful
(12:28):
things in their lives.
And they wake up one day andthey're like, we haven't saved
hardly anything for college.
Heather and I were talking aboutthat this morning.
And we're like, there's so manypeople that are waking up.
They're a year out from collegeand you're like, oh my God, it's
here.
And I haven't done anything.
And it's not like they haven'tmade money, haven't sat down
together.
They've just lived their life.
And next thing they wake up andit's oh, I'm on the doorstep of
(12:50):
retirement.
And that's why we had this bigretirement crisis.
Because people make typically wefind people are making enough
money.
They're just not in connection,connected enough to their money
to be able to do good with it.
And so this structure allows youbecause it allows you to be an
accountability partner for eachother.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (13:08):
I think it's good advice to, to have
that discussion to have an atleast a minimum agreement, in
advance of what your plans arefor the money, whether it be for
saving for the college educationor retirement.
I think it's critical.
what is the most crucial adviceyou would say to a blended
(13:28):
family?
So they stay financiallypresent.
Was that meeting monthly?
Ed Vargo (13:34):
Yeah, it really, I think it's just a reiteration of
staying connected, like startingwith.
Your value is understandingwhat's important to you and then
making sure you're putting thatin front of yourself, in front
of you on a regular basis, justcheck-ins now.
So sometimes when we talk aboutthese things, it feels immense.
It feels like it's a ton ofwork.
(13:54):
oh my God, there's no way Iwould ever do that.
It sounds like so much work.
I hate this money stuff.
It's really not.
If you just and take a step backand really assess, I think
getting on the same page withour values, we should be doing
that anyway, forget money rightour lives.
We be there and understand.
What's really important to us.
If we want to set ourselves upfor this happy, healthy life,
(14:16):
right?
So start with our values and allour money is just a conduit,
right?
It's just, it's inert.
It doesn't do anything until wedecide where we want to apply
it.
And so it just makes sense thatif our most important thing, the
most important things in ourlives are X, Y, and Z, wouldn't.
We not want to align our moneywith X, Y, and Z.
(14:36):
Okay, so the answer would beyes, most people won't disagree
with that.
And then the third question is,will, are we actually doing
that?
And that's where it breaks downthe most we make money, we spend
it and then it may not half ofit.
Most of it may not be goingtowards the most important
things in our lives.
And if we only took a moment tostep back and reassess and ask
each other, not in a criticalway, but in a, in a loving and
(14:59):
supportive way, are we reallyusing our money in a way that's
best for us?
Are we doing what we intended todo?
And that's not that hard, right?
It just takes a little bit oftime, take some focus.
And we just have to take thefocus off of say money, because
again, people don't want tospend, don't like to think about
being money.
But that's not what this is.
(15:20):
This is values focused withmoney as a conduit to reach and
those values.
And if we frame it that way, Ithink more people would actively
step into their money life andstay, get involved and stay
involved because it's not thesuperficial, I'm going after
money kind of thing.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (15:38):
100% agree.
Heather Hetchler (15:40):
And I think too, a lot of women have been
conditioned to not talk aboutmoney, right?
So if that isn't a comfortabletopic for you, then I encourage
you to visit us,EnlightenHer.com to get some
help because it is imperative.
And the one thing I would add toEd's advice is to be
forward-thinking.
So even if you get married andyour kids are little, you need
to have that conversation aboutcollege savings.
(16:03):
You need to have thatconversation about, because in
my experience, too, in workingwith blended families,
especially when both people comein with children, one is
typically saved and one hasn'tor one has seen.
A certain amount and the otherperson wants to catch up or
there's a lot of frictionbetween, it's not fair.
We hear that fair theme all thetime that you've saved$10,000
(16:26):
per kid and I've saved nothing.
you both came into this with adifferent mindset and a
different savings.
And so how are you going to moveforward?
Maybe now that you're married,you'll open one for the children
that never had one, and you'lljust contribute the same amount
every year, or maybe you'llagree to put extra in those
other kids' accounts.
But that can also be complextoo, because some adults that
(16:48):
get remarried have an ex that'salso saving and some don't.
So the spouse that has an ex notwants to contribute more.
And so I really recommend tomaybe getting a third party
involved in that conversation tohelp it stay less emotional and
more focused on.
The contributions and thesavings and what really works
moving forward on that.
(17:08):
And I know that we're talkingabout money here, but I do
recommend that everybody visitand have a will, because I can't
tell you how many times I'veworked, where they don't have a
will.
And one person dies.
Everything goes to the stepparent.
They don't know if they're goingto have enough money to live.
They don't give anything to thebiological children.
(17:29):
And it causes a lot ofconsternation and issues that
could have been avoided if theyhad thought about that.
And planned ahead.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (17:37):
Yes, financial planning 1 0 1.
Get your will.
If, I mean anyone, honestly, ifyou have children, you need to
have a will period.
it's critical, unless you guyshave something to add, I want to
switch gears.
And, I like to ask our guests ahot seat question.
And my goal is just to have youshare something about yourself
(17:57):
that may have, have within it, alife lesson, it can relate to
blended families, or it can bewhatever inspires you.
So what is one fear you'd liketo conquer?
Ed Vargo (18:08):
I'll go.
I don't know if I have a, Iguess my mind doesn't operate
from that sort of lens.
I don't have this fear of thingsin general.
I think about my girls.
And so if I think if I'mconcerned about anything.
It's girls and their trajectoryin life.
I try to do, me and my wife, wetry to do the best we can to
prepare them for what's to come,Just instill as much knowledge
(18:28):
and understanding as I can, andthen hope that all works out.
They make good decisions in themoment.
Most of their life is going tobe lived outside the confines of
mom and dad.
And as a financial advisor, Ithink about what could get in
the way of that.
And tying with, sort of lifelessons like, cause my
upbringing was very differentfrom my kids.
I grew up very poor inner cityCleveland, right?
(18:50):
My parents divorced when I wasvery young, very bad breakup in
the sense that my mom had togive up custody of us kids
because she wasn't financiallyable to take care of us.
So people think about, and heasked some times, why are you so
focused on working with women?
I think a big part of that is,my mom had to give up custody of
her kids.
Because of the money situation,which is a tragedy really, no
(19:12):
person, mother or otherwiseshe'd have to give up custody of
their kids because of,economics, but that's exactly
what happened, And so trying todo everything I can with my
girls to prevent them being in avulnerable position, not just
financially, but otherwise, butmoney is a big part of that, And
so when it comes to getting themeducated on money and in control
of their own money, they knowthey're going to be able to fall
(19:33):
back on that.
Right.
so I'm not concerned about theirtrajectory financially and how
that affects their life, ifthey're single.
What I'm concerned about is whenthey get involved with their
significant other, and now itgets more complicated, right?
Because, and it should get morecomplicated because they don't
get to make those decisions ontheir own, nor should they, they
(19:54):
have to share decision-making intheir financial life.
And I don't want them to revertto what a lot of other women
unfortunately do is this ismaybe a societal push or just
that's the way they think aboutit or just interest.
And they're like, oh, myboyfriend, my spouse, they liked
this money stuff, so I'll turnit over to them.
That's a fear of mine thatthey're going to abdicate their
(20:16):
responsibility, their authority,whatever, and just turn it over
to their husbands.
And I'm trying everything I canto help them, not, you don't
have to rule the kingdom, right?
You can share, thisresponsibility, but you just
can't give it up entirely.
And it's a lot easier said thandone like most things, because
what happens in relationships,if you start having a family and
(20:37):
things get busy, division oflabor works and money, but money
should not be part of thatdivision of labor.
It needs to be equally sharedacross the boards.
there is a fear out there, Iguess I'm concerned that my
girls are just going to losetheir sense of independence and
control because of, their lackof understanding or wherewithal
on the financial side.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (20:58):
Ed I think this is the subject of
another conversation.
but five girls.,
Ed Vargo (21:02):
That's a lot of girls.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (21:04):
And you have five chances to make sure
you stay into the drama.
Ed Vargo (21:08):
And I keep inserting myself into it, so I'm my own
worst enemy, I think.
But, but there it's fun.
It's great to see them grow up.
I want them to be strong,independent, formidable, young
women, and but most of your lifeis going to be outside of the
confines of mom and dad.
we're getting to the stage nowwe're really thinking about like
becoming empty nesters andthat's a whole different way of
(21:30):
looking at the world.
So we'll see, it's been fun.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (21:33):
Heather, do you have one?
Heather Hetchler (21:35):
four years ago I was diagnosed with cancer and
that really just caused atrajectory of change in how I
thought about things.
And I realized life really isshort and tomorrow isn't
promised.
And so I really went on ajourney to address fears.
And at first I was addressingphysical fears, I went and zip
lining.
I'm afraid of Heights.
I walked through.
(21:55):
A lavender fields filled withbees.
I don't like bees.
I swam with lemon sharks.
I just was like, you know whatI'm not going to be afraid
anymore.
But I realized that those fearsare a lot easier to conquer then
emotional fears.
And I, I believe that at thecore, we all have a core fear.
Typically it's being abandoned.
being unknown, being unloved,being left, failing.
(22:19):
And for me, my core fear isbeing unknown.
So if people wrongly judge me,like if they don't get to know
my heart and they falselyaccused me of something and in
the past, I used to defendmyself and get into, especially
in the blended family context.
But I have learned to let go ofthat, to learn that how other
(22:39):
people choose to see me as theirchoice and not my truth.
And there's a freedom in that.
And I think that I'm alwaysgoing to be battling that fear
because it was formed in mychildhood and it's woven into
the fabric of who I am.
But now when I start to feelmyself needing to defend or
engage.
I know what I'm dealing with,and it's been much easier to let
(23:01):
go of that.
My face had been part of that,but just really understanding
those truths.
But I think that fear is alwaysgoing to be there, but I'm much
better at, walking through it.
And I had been for the first 47years of my life.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (23:15):
Yeah, I agree with that.
And when I moved, I found a boxof journals and in it, I would
just spot check the journals.
And I will tell you that mystuff is the same stuff from 20
years ago to today.
It's just the way in which Iprocessed that stuff that has
changed.
but you're right.
These core fears that we have dofollow us, they just can reduce,
(23:41):
over time and with justexperience.
And, I'm glad that you gotthrough many of your fears and,
I hope that your health is good.
and I know that you are beingseen and you're being seen in a
way that is positively impactingstep-families and step-mom's.
So I applaud what you're doing.
(24:02):
Is there anything else thateither of you would like to add
that maybe I missed?
Heather Hetchler (24:07):
I just think for the women listening,
sometimes we're so culturally,we listen to something, we read
a book or we hear a podcast andwe start beating ourselves up
because we haven't been doingit.
Maybe we haven't been good withour money.
Maybe we have, maybe we've beencommitting financial infidelity
on our husband.
Maybe we haven't been teachingour kids the right things.
You can start today, blame andshame and guilt don't change
(24:29):
anything, but taking actiondoes.
And and I really have heart towork with women, in this area.
So I really invite you to visitus@enlightenher.com and, to get
a coaching call, to get somehelp, because there's no shame,
you need to just move forward.
And so I just want to encouragewomen that are listening to
this, that maybe fear payingtheir bills or fear, having
financial.
If you have a fear of finances,then it's time to overcome those
(24:52):
fears and we can help you dothat.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (24:54):
That's awesome.
How can our listeners find youif they have questions or want
to get in touch about coaching?
Heather Hetchler (25:01):
So they can visit us@enlightenedher.com.
So it's E N L I G H T E N H Er.com backslash fresh start.
That's where you can sign up,you fill out a couple of
questions.
So we know where you are.
we'll set up a free coachingcall and really our goal is to
listen, to hear where you areand where you want to go, and
then to help put a roadmaptogether to get you there.
(25:22):
But there's also a ton ofresources articles on the
website that you can just getlost in read.
You'll find yourself in thosearticles.
you'll feel a comfort.
You'll feel like you're cominghome.
You'll know that you're notalone in your financial
struggles.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (25:37):
That's awesome.
Ed, is there anything you'd liketo add?
Ed Vargo (25:41):
I would just reiterate what, Heather said.
I think the hardest part isgetting started and we create
all sorts of reasons to not doso, you know, we talk ourselves
out of it.
But, I think that's the stepthat, just start forward, don't
put too much pressure onyourself and take that first
step forward.
Whether no matter where you arein this continuum, There's,
knowledge is certainly power inthis space.
(26:03):
And we hear that all the timeand it's comes, it goes in one
ear, it comes out the other.
But, if you're having someissues with your financial life,
we find that most people havesome they've identified that
they have some sort of problemarea or something that's not
working quite right.
But then it just dies there, Andthat's, it's a tragedy, right?
Cause you recognize that there'ssomething wrong or not quite
(26:25):
right.
And yet we don't do anything tofix it.
So that's that cognitivedissonance where we actively, or
in this case, inactively, aren'ttaking action to fix a problem
that we know exists and it's notgoing away.
So this retirement crisis orcollege issues that are coming
up.
no.
One's going to come in and solvethose problems for us.
that's the thing, thegovernment's not going to do it.
(26:45):
Your company's not going to doit.
I wouldn't rely on anybody elseto try and fix, something that's
wrong in my life.
So I would just take that smallstep forward.
It could be with EnlightenHer,check it out.
There's plenty of resources outthere.
Just do something and then takethat first step.
And then that'll lead you toyour next step.
And if you just keep focusing onone step at a time, you don't,
(27:06):
it's not this big, giganticthing.
You've got a problem you have tosolve.
You're just taking these littlesteps and it's moving your
closer and closer each step ofthe way.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (27:14):
And I would add you have time.
not to rush it.
If there's not a big rush here.
I think it's really good advice.
One step at a time.
There is no, like you don't haveto, hunker down in your office
for five days.
You can take small action willmake a big difference.
I thank you both for joining meon the Nuclear Families
Evangelist.
Ed Vargo (27:34):
Yeah, thanks for having.
Heather Hetchler (27:35):
Thank you.
Heather Hetchler And Ed Vargo return to
the podcast.
Heather is a columnist atStepmom Magazine.
A wife, a mom, a step-mom and athought leader and coach for
blended families with Learning 2Step, an e-learning platform.
Ed Vargo is the founder ofBurning River Advisory Group a
(00:21):
boutique wealth managementfirms, specializing in working
with women, experiencingsignificant life events,
divorce, retirement, andwidowhood.
He has over 20 years ofexperience in the financial
services industry and is thefounder of EnlightenedHer a new
women, first financial educationand coaching company.
(00:43):
We are jumping back into ourconversation about financial
infidelity, Heather and ed.
Explain what financialinfidelity is and share their
tips for blended families,learning to communicate honestly
and effectively about finances.
Let's get into it.
So getting back to the financialinfidelity, as I mentioned, I
(01:04):
have firsthand experience onboth as a child and, in my
marriage.
And, I think that it's, for me,it was, in both cases, my dad
giving me something that hedidn't tell my stepmother and
then stepping into an awkwardsituation when it became
apparent.
I just let the cat out of thebag.
(01:26):
and then also in my marriagewhere my husband did, what you
had said is that he to keep thepeace gave money to my
stepdaughter, did not share thatwith me.
And, it was a big deal.
This particular incident.
It was a really, it was a momentwhere we had to navigate this
(01:49):
break in trust in ourpartnership and had to go back
to some of the basics.
And we had to acknowledge thatwe had brought some money
baggage into our marriage.
I'm with my husband.
I think his infidelity wasrooted in his daddy guilt and
mine was really, a societal or afamily pre-programming that I
(02:11):
brought.
So I grew up in a home where themen were in charge of money,
regardless of who made themoney.
even when my mom was working,the financial control was
relinquished to her husband.
So I'm wondering if financialinfidelity is something that
either of you have dealt withpersonally?
If you're willing to share.
Ed Vargo (02:33):
I will say not really on my end, have I dealt with it
personally?
I'm a financial advisor, so Ihave a little bit of a leg up in
that regard.
I've seen a lot of it.
Certainly as an advisor, butalso just in, family and
friends, you hear it all thetime.
And it's, I think we shouldprobably define financial
infidelity for a then yeah, diginto it a little bit further.
(02:53):
it's really not complicated.
It's simply when a person hidesor withholds money-related
issues and decisions from theirpartner.
You're basically not tellingyour partner something about
money typically is what happens.
And it's not as obvious, likewhen we have physical cheating,
the rules of engagement arepretty clear.
What's acceptable.
(03:13):
What's not acceptable.
But when it comes to money orfinancial infidelity, it's not
obvious it's ambiguous becausewe don't know there is no set
line for what's acceptable andnot acceptable when it comes to
spending money.
So that's one of the firstbarriers is that if you're both
not on the same page, in termsof what is proper behavior, it's
very easy to deviate into,improper behavior without even
(03:37):
knowing.
Or, you live in that ambiguousworld where you kind of alive
think that this probably isn'tokay, but it's not been
discussed.
So you can hide behind that veilof I didn't know.
I didn't know that wasn't okay.
that it creates strife in therelationship.
So I think one of the firstthings is to identify as get on
the same page when it comes tomoney, what's an appropriate and
acceptable use of money in thecontext of our lives.
(04:00):
Given that aside, clearly thereare areas and you've outlined a
couple of them already where youknow, that's wrong.
that this isn't the best way tohandle our money situations.
And I'm doing something to maybeavoid a bigger problem.
but they don't have to be bigissues.
It could be as simple as like Anew golf club this weekend.
And I don't tell the wife, Oryou go out and you pick up
(04:22):
drinks for your friends or yourbuddies you're out.
And that's not reallyappropriate use of dollars, but
you don't share that.
So those are relatively minorthings.
And then you have the major, bigones, those true breaches of
trust.
And, and that's why I talkedabout earlier, like a lot of
money issues.
Aren't really money issues.
They're really bigger valuesissues.
(04:42):
Like I did.
I made a decision that broke ourtrust and money just happened to
be the conduit for that breachof trust.
So it happens all the time.
And it's one of those things.
I don't know if people think ofit in terms of infidelity.
Cause that's a very powerfulword, but I think if we started
thinking more along those lines,it might foster more
communication and help avoidsome of these problems before
(05:06):
they ever occurred.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (05:07):
Yeah.
I think it's a good word.
and I think, cause I think itreally did.
at the time that I was dealingwith it in my marriage, I didn't
really, I would not have coinedit that way, but that's what it
felt like.
It felt really that like thatbond, there was a break in that
trust that I didn't see coming.
And, it was, so it has to feel alot like infidelity feels, in
(05:32):
the, with the other definitionof the word infidelity.
So what are ways that we canprotect ourselves and our
nuclear families from financialinfidelity?
Is there, a series of activitiesthat blended families can do to
avoid this financial cheating?
Heather Hetchler (05:49):
I think one thing, one thing that my husband
and I agreed to it from the verybeginning, and it was, we have a
dollar amount that we check witheach other before we spend it.
So we have an unspoken budget,if he's out and, he sees a lawn
mower and he wants to get it orsomething like that, like we'll
check in with each other.
Hey, I saw this, I want to getthis.
And so clearly if we're checkingon that, we have that alignment
(06:10):
and I think too, I do think wehave to, the reason I think.
financial infidelity is a reallywise word to explain it because
it is a broken trust and it doeshurt.
So it explains the pain that, astep-mom might feel as she
realizes that her husband's beengiving money to his kids or his
ex and not telling her.
It feels she's already maybefeeling a little bit like an
(06:32):
outsider.
I think if you're listening tothis podcast too, I want to just
encourage you if you'relistening to this and you're
like, oh my gosh, that's what'sgoing on with me.
my husband has been financiallycheating on me.
It is very easy to begin tospiral with that.
That feels deep.
And that word is very, it's atender and deep word for us.
(06:52):
So I think I'd encourage womento stop, to acknowledge what may
be going on, but to not go and,accuse their husband.
You've been financially cheatingon me.
How dare you?
because I think we do have tosometimes stop it.
Doesn't make it right.
But sometimes.
we're all a product of ourchildhood of what we've been
through and many times men, andwe're just talking about this in
(07:14):
the context of stepmoms andhusbands, but, do sometimes make
choices to keep the peace.
So he most likely is notthinking, oh, I'm cheating on my
wife financially.
Oh, I'm breaking trust.
Oh, I don't value her.
That might be how the stepmotherfeels.
He's like, you know what?
I've got the extra money.
If it just keeps my ex happy,it'll keep my home happy.
(07:35):
It'll keep my wife happy.
He's not thinking about it inthe same context that it's
feeling for the woman.
And so I never want toinvalidate how difficult that
must feel to be on the receivingend of that.
But to also, calm down, processit and talk to your spouse.
When you can talk a little bitmore unemotionally about it and
(07:56):
share with them how it feels toyou.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (07:58):
It's wise advice.
fortunately in my case, I wasable to, intuitively know that I
actually just was like, I'mgoing to go out before I say
anything I need a time out for afew hours to figure out what
this conversation needs to looklike.
Because if I say something now Iwill probably regret it.
(08:19):
Yeah.
Do you counsel clients on how tomend from a financial
infidelity?
Heather Hetchler (08:25):
We do as a part of EnlightenedHer.
and I can talk more on this.
We have a program for moneymentors, so I wanted to money
mentors.
So if you go to lighten her suchfresh start, you can sign up for
a free clarity call with us.
And it's really, you know, itlooks a little bit different for
every woman because I'll sit andI'll listen to a woman.
I'll hear where she is.
(08:45):
I'll hear, where her moneymindset is, what she's
struggling with.
And then I'm able to puttogether a roadmap and coach her
through that.
So if there is a womanstruggling with financial
infidelity, wanting to maybeunderstand her finances, better
realizes that maybe she's alwaysbeen hands-off, I would love to
work with her and help coach herthrough that.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (09:05):
I assume this is tricky, but should
blended families keep theirfinances separate?
I mean, especially if there'schild support for a custodial
parent involved.
Ed Vargo (09:15):
And I think this depends.
Now you have to find what makesthe most sense for you as a
family.
But I don't think there's anyproblem with it, but I wouldn't
keep, I don't think this is anall or nothing type of question
either.
What seems to me works bestparticularly with blended
families or if you're marryinglater in life, You've had your,
you have your own money, you'vedone things your own way for so
long.
That's part of yourindependence.
(09:36):
That's part of your autonomy,right?
And so when you come togetherand you get married and
traditionally it used to be, yougot married much earlier you're
you had nothing together, cameinto it together.
So you just put all of your,nothingness, in one pot and it
worked fine.
And you built it over time.
we're not coming into theserelationships with substantial
wealth in some cases.
So your own income and inblended families, that's even
(09:57):
more because you have theseother complicating factors.
So what I think makes sense, ifyou had pick one way to go, I
think.
Having individual accounts thatyou deposit a certain amount of
money into per pay or per monthas an example.
And then you have a main jointchecking account for everything
else.
So all of your household bills,the marital items get paid out
of that account.
(10:18):
And this is just a framework tothink about, but let's say you
have your paychecks directlydeposited into the joint
account, and then you have yourtwo individual accounts and then
maybe a move out.
I don't know, 500 bucks a monthinto each of those accounts on
the first of the month has doneautomatically.
That's your money.
Do whatever you want with it.
I don't have to justify myspending.
If I want to blow it all on agolf club or dining out, or just
(10:42):
hoard my money, I can dowhatever I want.
It's mine.
So that gives me my sense ofautonomy, my sense of
independence.
And I don't feel like I've gotto check in with my spouse to go
spend money.
Cause nobody wants to feel thatway.
Especially if you, it doesn'tmatter if you make the money or
not.
No one wants to be beholden tothe other person at the same
time, the money in the jointaccount.
I know that money's being usedfor our marital needs.
(11:03):
So paying the mortgage, takingcare of the kids, know all the
other stuff that comes with it.
And then we can both see whathappens on that account.
And that's very importantbecause one of the problems with
women giving up their financialpower to men is they become
disconnected from the money.
And then that's when there'sthat disconnect, there's no
dialogue when there's nodialogue, mistakes happen or bad
(11:24):
things happen.
just all kinds of bad stuff canhappen, whether it's intentional
or not.
So I think a nice, happy mediumis to do what I just said.
each an individual accounthands-off for the other party.
And then we have this jointaccount where we can make
decisions and come together on.
And then what I would also, Itake that a step further is I
don't think we spend enough timelooking at our money on a
(11:45):
regular basis.
Like I look, obviously I'mdifferent because I'm a
financial advisor and I'mcompletely comfortable in this
world, but I'm looking at mystuff all the time, like
continuously.
Okay.
That's an extreme, I wouldn'trecommend that.
But if you're out there, doingthis, in conjunction with your
partner, I would once a weekjust do a quick check-in at
least once a month.
(12:05):
it's that important?
I think that's part of theproblem.
we don't.
Place enough emphasis onmanaging our cashflow.
We're really good at makingmoney.
I find people are good at goingto work, working hard, being
smart, doing those types ofthings.
And then the money just ends upin their account.
It's like in and out, they don'tthink that much about it.
And then a bunch of wastefulspending happens.
Wasteful in the sense that it'snot going to the most meaningful
(12:28):
things in their lives.
And they wake up one day andthey're like, we haven't saved
hardly anything for college.
Heather and I were talking aboutthat this morning.
And we're like, there's so manypeople that are waking up.
They're a year out from collegeand you're like, oh my God, it's
here.
And I haven't done anything.
And it's not like they haven'tmade money, haven't sat down
together.
They've just lived their life.
And next thing they wake up andit's oh, I'm on the doorstep of
(12:50):
retirement.
And that's why we had this bigretirement crisis.
Because people make typically wefind people are making enough
money.
They're just not in connection,connected enough to their money
to be able to do good with it.
And so this structure allows youbecause it allows you to be an
accountability partner for eachother.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (13:08):
I think it's good advice to, to have
that discussion to have an atleast a minimum agreement, in
advance of what your plans arefor the money, whether it be for
saving for the college educationor retirement.
I think it's critical.
what is the most crucial adviceyou would say to a blended
(13:28):
family?
So they stay financiallypresent.
Was that meeting monthly?
Ed Vargo (13:34):
Yeah, it really, I think it's just a reiteration of
staying connected, like startingwith.
Your value is understandingwhat's important to you and then
making sure you're putting thatin front of yourself, in front
of you on a regular basis, justcheck-ins now.
So sometimes when we talk aboutthese things, it feels immense.
It feels like it's a ton ofwork.
(13:54):
oh my God, there's no way Iwould ever do that.
It sounds like so much work.
I hate this money stuff.
It's really not.
If you just and take a step backand really assess, I think
getting on the same page withour values, we should be doing
that anyway, forget money rightour lives.
We be there and understand.
What's really important to us.
If we want to set ourselves upfor this happy, healthy life,
(14:16):
right?
So start with our values and allour money is just a conduit,
right?
It's just, it's inert.
It doesn't do anything until wedecide where we want to apply
it.
And so it just makes sense thatif our most important thing, the
most important things in ourlives are X, Y, and Z, wouldn't.
We not want to align our moneywith X, Y, and Z.
(14:36):
Okay, so the answer would beyes, most people won't disagree
with that.
And then the third question is,will, are we actually doing
that?
And that's where it breaks downthe most we make money, we spend
it and then it may not half ofit.
Most of it may not be goingtowards the most important
things in our lives.
And if we only took a moment tostep back and reassess and ask
each other, not in a criticalway, but in a, in a loving and
(14:59):
supportive way, are we reallyusing our money in a way that's
best for us?
Are we doing what we intended todo?
And that's not that hard, right?
It just takes a little bit oftime, take some focus.
And we just have to take thefocus off of say money, because
again, people don't want tospend, don't like to think about
being money.
But that's not what this is.
(15:20):
This is values focused withmoney as a conduit to reach and
those values.
And if we frame it that way, Ithink more people would actively
step into their money life andstay, get involved and stay
involved because it's not thesuperficial, I'm going after
money kind of thing.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (15:38):
100% agree.
Heather Hetchler (15:40):
And I think too, a lot of women have been
conditioned to not talk aboutmoney, right?
So if that isn't a comfortabletopic for you, then I encourage
you to visit us,EnlightenHer.com to get some
help because it is imperative.
And the one thing I would add toEd's advice is to be
forward-thinking.
So even if you get married andyour kids are little, you need
to have that conversation aboutcollege savings.
(16:03):
You need to have thatconversation about, because in
my experience, too, in workingwith blended families,
especially when both people comein with children, one is
typically saved and one hasn'tor one has seen.
A certain amount and the otherperson wants to catch up or
there's a lot of frictionbetween, it's not fair.
We hear that fair theme all thetime that you've saved$10,000
(16:26):
per kid and I've saved nothing.
you both came into this with adifferent mindset and a
different savings.
And so how are you going to moveforward?
Maybe now that you're married,you'll open one for the children
that never had one, and you'lljust contribute the same amount
every year, or maybe you'llagree to put extra in those
other kids' accounts.
But that can also be complextoo, because some adults that
(16:48):
get remarried have an ex that'salso saving and some don't.
So the spouse that has an ex notwants to contribute more.
And so I really recommend tomaybe getting a third party
involved in that conversation tohelp it stay less emotional and
more focused on.
The contributions and thesavings and what really works
moving forward on that.
(17:08):
And I know that we're talkingabout money here, but I do
recommend that everybody visitand have a will, because I can't
tell you how many times I'veworked, where they don't have a
will.
And one person dies.
Everything goes to the stepparent.
They don't know if they're goingto have enough money to live.
They don't give anything to thebiological children.
(17:29):
And it causes a lot ofconsternation and issues that
could have been avoided if theyhad thought about that.
And planned ahead.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (17:37):
Yes, financial planning 1 0 1.
Get your will.
If, I mean anyone, honestly, ifyou have children, you need to
have a will period.
it's critical, unless you guyshave something to add, I want to
switch gears.
And, I like to ask our guests ahot seat question.
And my goal is just to have youshare something about yourself
(17:57):
that may have, have within it, alife lesson, it can relate to
blended families, or it can bewhatever inspires you.
So what is one fear you'd liketo conquer?
Ed Vargo (18:08):
I'll go.
I don't know if I have a, Iguess my mind doesn't operate
from that sort of lens.
I don't have this fear of thingsin general.
I think about my girls.
And so if I think if I'mconcerned about anything.
It's girls and their trajectoryin life.
I try to do, me and my wife, wetry to do the best we can to
prepare them for what's to come,Just instill as much knowledge
(18:28):
and understanding as I can, andthen hope that all works out.
They make good decisions in themoment.
Most of their life is going tobe lived outside the confines of
mom and dad.
And as a financial advisor, Ithink about what could get in
the way of that.
And tying with, sort of lifelessons like, cause my
upbringing was very differentfrom my kids.
I grew up very poor inner cityCleveland, right?
(18:50):
My parents divorced when I wasvery young, very bad breakup in
the sense that my mom had togive up custody of us kids
because she wasn't financiallyable to take care of us.
So people think about, and heasked some times, why are you so
focused on working with women?
I think a big part of that is,my mom had to give up custody of
her kids.
Because of the money situation,which is a tragedy really, no
(19:12):
person, mother or otherwiseshe'd have to give up custody of
their kids because of,economics, but that's exactly
what happened, And so trying todo everything I can with my
girls to prevent them being in avulnerable position, not just
financially, but otherwise, butmoney is a big part of that, And
so when it comes to getting themeducated on money and in control
of their own money, they knowthey're going to be able to fall
(19:33):
back on that.
Right.
so I'm not concerned about theirtrajectory financially and how
that affects their life, ifthey're single.
What I'm concerned about is whenthey get involved with their
significant other, and now itgets more complicated, right?
Because, and it should get morecomplicated because they don't
get to make those decisions ontheir own, nor should they, they
(19:54):
have to share decision-making intheir financial life.
And I don't want them to revertto what a lot of other women
unfortunately do is this ismaybe a societal push or just
that's the way they think aboutit or just interest.
And they're like, oh, myboyfriend, my spouse, they liked
this money stuff, so I'll turnit over to them.
That's a fear of mine thatthey're going to abdicate their
(20:16):
responsibility, their authority,whatever, and just turn it over
to their husbands.
And I'm trying everything I canto help them, not, you don't
have to rule the kingdom, right?
You can share, thisresponsibility, but you just
can't give it up entirely.
And it's a lot easier said thandone like most things, because
what happens in relationships,if you start having a family and
(20:37):
things get busy, division oflabor works and money, but money
should not be part of thatdivision of labor.
It needs to be equally sharedacross the boards.
there is a fear out there, Iguess I'm concerned that my
girls are just going to losetheir sense of independence and
control because of, their lackof understanding or wherewithal
on the financial side.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (20:58):
Ed I think this is the subject of
another conversation.
but five girls.,
Ed Vargo (21:02):
That's a lot of girls.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (21:04):
And you have five chances to make sure
you stay into the drama.
Ed Vargo (21:08):
And I keep inserting myself into it, so I'm my own
worst enemy, I think.
But, but there it's fun.
It's great to see them grow up.
I want them to be strong,independent, formidable, young
women, and but most of your lifeis going to be outside of the
confines of mom and dad.
we're getting to the stage nowwe're really thinking about like
becoming empty nesters andthat's a whole different way of
(21:30):
looking at the world.
So we'll see, it's been fun.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (21:33):
Heather, do you have one?
Heather Hetchler (21:35):
four years ago I was diagnosed with cancer and
that really just caused atrajectory of change in how I
thought about things.
And I realized life really isshort and tomorrow isn't
promised.
And so I really went on ajourney to address fears.
And at first I was addressingphysical fears, I went and zip
lining.
I'm afraid of Heights.
I walked through.
(21:55):
A lavender fields filled withbees.
I don't like bees.
I swam with lemon sharks.
I just was like, you know whatI'm not going to be afraid
anymore.
But I realized that those fearsare a lot easier to conquer then
emotional fears.
And I, I believe that at thecore, we all have a core fear.
Typically it's being abandoned.
being unknown, being unloved,being left, failing.
(22:19):
And for me, my core fear isbeing unknown.
So if people wrongly judge me,like if they don't get to know
my heart and they falselyaccused me of something and in
the past, I used to defendmyself and get into, especially
in the blended family context.
But I have learned to let go ofthat, to learn that how other
(22:39):
people choose to see me as theirchoice and not my truth.
And there's a freedom in that.
And I think that I'm alwaysgoing to be battling that fear
because it was formed in mychildhood and it's woven into
the fabric of who I am.
But now when I start to feelmyself needing to defend or
engage.
I know what I'm dealing with,and it's been much easier to let
(23:01):
go of that.
My face had been part of that,but just really understanding
those truths.
But I think that fear is alwaysgoing to be there, but I'm much
better at, walking through it.
And I had been for the first 47years of my life.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (23:15):
Yeah, I agree with that.
And when I moved, I found a boxof journals and in it, I would
just spot check the journals.
And I will tell you that mystuff is the same stuff from 20
years ago to today.
It's just the way in which Iprocessed that stuff that has
changed.
but you're right.
These core fears that we have dofollow us, they just can reduce,
(23:41):
over time and with justexperience.
And, I'm glad that you gotthrough many of your fears and,
I hope that your health is good.
and I know that you are beingseen and you're being seen in a
way that is positively impactingstep-families and step-mom's.
So I applaud what you're doing.
(24:02):
Is there anything else thateither of you would like to add
that maybe I missed?
Heather Hetchler (24:07):
I just think for the women listening,
sometimes we're so culturally,we listen to something, we read
a book or we hear a podcast andwe start beating ourselves up
because we haven't been doingit.
Maybe we haven't been good withour money.
Maybe we have, maybe we've beencommitting financial infidelity
on our husband.
Maybe we haven't been teachingour kids the right things.
You can start today, blame andshame and guilt don't change
(24:29):
anything, but taking actiondoes.
And and I really have heart towork with women, in this area.
So I really invite you to visitus@enlightenher.com and, to get
a coaching call, to get somehelp, because there's no shame,
you need to just move forward.
And so I just want to encouragewomen that are listening to
this, that maybe fear payingtheir bills or fear, having
financial.
If you have a fear of finances,then it's time to overcome those
(24:52):
fears and we can help you dothat.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (24:54):
That's awesome.
How can our listeners find youif they have questions or want
to get in touch about coaching?
Heather Hetchler (25:01):
So they can visit us@enlightenedher.com.
So it's E N L I G H T E N H Er.com backslash fresh start.
That's where you can sign up,you fill out a couple of
questions.
So we know where you are.
we'll set up a free coachingcall and really our goal is to
listen, to hear where you areand where you want to go, and
then to help put a roadmaptogether to get you there.
(25:22):
But there's also a ton ofresources articles on the
website that you can just getlost in read.
You'll find yourself in thosearticles.
you'll feel a comfort.
You'll feel like you're cominghome.
You'll know that you're notalone in your financial
struggles.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (25:37):
That's awesome.
Ed, is there anything you'd liketo add?
Ed Vargo (25:41):
I would just reiterate what, Heather said.
I think the hardest part isgetting started and we create
all sorts of reasons to not doso, you know, we talk ourselves
out of it.
But, I think that's the stepthat, just start forward, don't
put too much pressure onyourself and take that first
step forward.
Whether no matter where you arein this continuum, There's,
knowledge is certainly power inthis space.
(26:03):
And we hear that all the timeand it's comes, it goes in one
ear, it comes out the other.
But, if you're having someissues with your financial life,
we find that most people havesome they've identified that
they have some sort of problemarea or something that's not
working quite right.
But then it just dies there, Andthat's, it's a tragedy, right?
Cause you recognize that there'ssomething wrong or not quite
(26:25):
right.
And yet we don't do anything tofix it.
So that's that cognitivedissonance where we actively, or
in this case, inactively, aren'ttaking action to fix a problem
that we know exists and it's notgoing away.
So this retirement crisis orcollege issues that are coming
up.
no.
One's going to come in and solvethose problems for us.
that's the thing, thegovernment's not going to do it.
(26:45):
Your company's not going to doit.
I wouldn't rely on anybody elseto try and fix, something that's
wrong in my life.
So I would just take that smallstep forward.
It could be with EnlightenHer,check it out.
There's plenty of resources outthere.
Just do something and then takethat first step.
And then that'll lead you toyour next step.
And if you just keep focusing onone step at a time, you don't,
(27:06):
it's not this big, giganticthing.
You've got a problem you have tosolve.
You're just taking these littlesteps and it's moving your
closer and closer each step ofthe way.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (27:14):
And I would add you have time.
not to rush it.
If there's not a big rush here.
I think it's really good advice.
One step at a time.
There is no, like you don't haveto, hunker down in your office
for five days.
You can take small action willmake a big difference.
I thank you both for joining meon the Nuclear Families
Evangelist.
Ed Vargo (27:34):
Yeah, thanks for having.
Heather Hetchler (27:35):
Thank you.
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