November 10, 2022 • 25 mins
In today´s episode of the ‘Nuclear Families Evangelist’ (A podcast that debunks the mythologies and biology by exploring the dynamics and relationships in blended families), host Traci Dority-Shanklin continues the discussion with guest Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin, Business Development Manager in Pharmaceuticals and an Entrepreneur in the Health and Wellness industry. Marni talks about the struggles of second marriage.
Three Key Points
1. Marni reveals that while she was going through her divorce, she had a lot of support around her. She did have one person who said, “Everybody I know that got divorced regrets it”, but Marni has no regrets. In terms of the advice, a lot of people advised her to, “Never speak badly about your ex or the other person's ex”, and they really hold to that rule. Of course, they don't have anything bad to say, everybody's welcome when they come to drop off the kids. They want everyone to feel like this is an extended family.
2. Marni says that with his kid, we still try to keep the dynamics, a dad and his boys and a mom and her daughters to be very sacred and that is important. She thinks they have held true to that fear has not become a reality and they've made a conscious effort to uphold that promise.
3. We all saw firsthand how devastating it was during the pandemic, especially more than anything for the kids to be learning on zoom at home away from their friends, it was truly heartbreaking. Marni thinks for them they were lucky as they live in California where it's sunny 355 days a year but they try to take walks every day. They were fortunate enough to have a trampoline in their backyard, so they jumped a lot and tried to do something physically active with the kids every day.
Contact:
Traci Dority-Shanklin: LinkedIn Twitter Facebook
traci@sisupartnersllc.com
website: www.nuclear-families.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (00:20):
For those of you just tuning in, I have
been speaking with my friendMarni Rosenthal-Chaikin.
Marni works in thepharmaceutical industry, but
before that, she was anentrepreneur in the health and
wellness industry, which iswhere I met her.
In our previous episode, Marnitouches on getting engaged and
becoming a bonus mom to his twochildren from a previous
(00:42):
marriage.
So let's pick up theconversation with Marni, where
we left off.
When I married my husband, hehad two children from a previous
marriage, so I went right frombeing a single career woman to
being an instant co-parent onour wedding day.
Not that we had not, I had notmet his children.
Clearly I had, but it was mystepson.
(01:05):
Within a year, I think of ourmarriage, maybe two, moved in
with us.
How has co-parenting changed orbeen impact?
By your divorce, so co-parentingwith your ex.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (01:17):
Hmm.
We try to keep our lines ofcommunication open as well.
The kids go back and forth.
They love their dad, they loveme.
I think they somewhatbegrudgingly go back and forth.
Nothing against him or I, but itof course can be hard.
So I try to do, make sure thatthere's plenty of clean
underwear over there and plentyof clean underwear over here.
(01:41):
This is the way of the worldthese days.
I think for at least 50 or 60%of the children, unfortunately,
Traci Dority-Shanklin (01:48):
It's actually lower than I thought.
It's gone down, It's 45% I wassurprised but I will say that
it's high that second marriagesare the ones that struggle.
I would say probably, often thestruggle is blending families is
that's, It's a hard thing to do.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (02:08):
Yeah.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (02:09):
But it, it can be very rewarding.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (02:11):
I have a lot of friends that found
their person and are, but areliving apart.
I have friends that havedivorced that are still looking.
I know people that are notplanning to date until their
children are out of the house,and I don't believe that there's
necessarily, a right or wrong.
I also know of people that.
(02:32):
Have been married and divorcedfive times, and
Traci Dority-Shanklin (02:34):
So do I.
I come from a family of those.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (02:40):
I also feel like when you divorce,
especially with young kids,You're putting your life, you're
blowing it up.
And the, there's just what'sleft is ashes.
And so you have to be strongenough to find new pieces to
rebuild and you have to rebuildyourself and who you rebuild as
a completely different personthan who you knew in your prior
(03:00):
marriage.
And it's often more than notsomebody that you like a lot
better than the person from yourprevious relationship.
I know for me, when I was inIsrael with the Jewish Women's
Renaissance Project and there,there was a big sign up that
said, No one is coming to rescueyou.
And I remember looking at thatand thinking, Yeah, no, this is
it.
Like I, I am on my own, but Ihave made it on my own and.
(03:24):
Realizing that I think actuallyopened me up to be able to
actually have a partnership,because being able to know so
full well that you've builtyour, you've torn yourself down,
let yourself on fire, and thenbuilt yourself back up into a
new, stronger, better version ofyourself.
I think for me, certain.
(03:46):
Made me feel confident that nomatter what came my way, I would
be okay.
And so having this wonderful,beautiful, fulfilling
relationship was like an icingon a cake that like I had
already baked myself.
And I think that.
Being able to compliment eachother in that way after having
been through what we've beenthrough was, I wouldn't have
been ready for somebody like myfiance 25 years ago, and there's
(04:09):
just no way because I was atotally different person.
So being able to receive thatkind of love and that kind of
partnership now, it feels like areward, honestly, because I went
through what I went through andbecause I did the work to get
where I am.
So I could have easily just,stayed my immature self and I
probably would've been repeatingthe same patterns, which is
(04:30):
probably why a lot of people getdivorced three and four and five
times.
And again, that's.
That's none of my business.
But I know that they'retypically blaming the other
person each and every time.
And sometimes you have to take agood, hard look at yourself.
and I know for me, I really didthat and had to change a lot
about myself in order to be ableto place myself into a new
(04:51):
situation.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (04:52):
Really well said and beautiful because
it really does take work.
divorce is not easy and I havenot ever been divorced, but
obviously my husband had been,and I lived through both of my
parents, not just divorcing eachother, but then divorcing again,
there are third spouses.
(05:13):
So even when it was astep-parent divorcing my dad or
my mom, I definitely felt it.
It still was because you can'thelp when you are that close.
And I did see, in retrospect nowI've done a lot of work like you
and myself.
I think I get a lot more aboutwhy my parents struggled the way
(05:36):
they did to sort of find thatthey were looking outside of
themselves for something thatwas, instead of looking inside
themselves for that answer.
Ultimately, I think they.
Probably got there.
I can't speak for them, but Iwould like to think that they
had, that's certainly my hopefor them.
I was talking aboutco-parenting.
How has it been, cuz you're inessence, a co-parent now and
(06:00):
with your stepsons, so I knowthey're not officially stepsons
yet, but you guys, I'm sure youfeel that they're your part of
you.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (06:08):
Oh, yes.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (06:10):
Nuclear families is really a
resurrection of something that Iwas doing before I had my
children.
A lot of it was based on being astep-parent, because at the time
that was my experience ofmotherhood.
and When I was doing it before,there seemed to be a lot of it
can get, I guess when I wasblogging, I would get frustrated
(06:30):
because all I would hear isabout how the ex was this and
the ex was that, and it's sofrustrating and I really wanted
to come at it from a perspectiveof, let's do the work on you,
because if you're feeling thatway, it's usually about you.
You can't worry about them.
All you can do is change you.
And then, how are you going tomake this, How are you going to
(06:53):
take yourself out of theequation, forgetting about what
you might feel and making itabout the kids, because they're
the ones who are really the,they're the recipient.
They're the ones that take onall the other, the bad stuff.
Because they don't, they're,it's not their relationship
that's broken.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (07:10):
Yeah.
It's true.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (07:11):
And I'm just interested how you're
getting along with his ex-wifeand how is that, how have you
navigated that?
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (07:18):
For on all fronts, there's a lot of
communication and I, at onepoint, sent her a message,
especially during the time thatwe were really blending and
moving in with one another tojust say, Hey, listen, I'll
never be their mom.
You're gonna be their momforever and ever, but I will be
there for them and I will alwayslove them and certainly keep
(07:42):
them safe and watch over themwhen they're here because I put
myself in that position if myex-husband were living with a
woman or dating somebody who hewas with around my daughters, I
would wanna hear, I know itwould feel like a blessing to
hear that from the individualwho had my kids 20 or 30 or 40%
of the time.
So, um, and I meant it too.
(08:02):
I have no intention of evertaking the place of somebody
else's mother by any means.
I felt that it was importantthat she know that I always
intend to treat them as my ownwhen they're in my presence.
And I do love them tremendously.
So they're easy to love.
they're good kids.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (08:20):
Not everybody would agree with me,
but I think most people in theend would say, You're right.
They're all easy to love.
That's,
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (08:25):
Yeah.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (08:26):
That's great.
That's good.
Yeah, I shared that experience.
I didn't come from theperspective of having been a
mom.
I came from it having been astepchild and I knew organically
was that I didn't like feelinglike there was a competition
because, you know, know, my mombless her, was pretty devastated
(08:46):
when my parents split.
It felt there was a lot of, Ithink, just pent up jealousy and
I would, I was feeling it andreceiving it and hearing it
probably as well.
And so when I got with myhusband, one of the things that
I did was I actually asked hisex-wife out to lunch, and I
think it was a turning point forthe relationship that I have
(09:08):
with my stepchildren is cuz theyended up.
Coming to the restaurant andseeing us together.
And I think they were assurprised as anyone to see me
sitting there.
They were looking for her to getmoney for something and she was
like, I'm here.
And yeah, she's around all thetime.
not all the time, but all thebig events for sure.
We have, done together.
(09:30):
it does, it's an importantaspect.
Absolutely.
Again, my blended family has notbeen smooth sailing.
We've had a lot of adjustmentperiod.
Even though I grew up in stepfamilies and it made me more
aware and slightly morecalculated in my responses to my
stepchildren, I made some bigmistakes.
(09:51):
I remember I wanted so much inthe beginning to have instant
relationships with my step kids,and I think I alluded to this
earlier and felt like such afailure when it didn't play out
that way.
And I forgot in the early daysthat there was this natural
unconscious need for the childto protect the absent parent.
(10:11):
And these protective instinctsare the source of many
children's like indifference,our arms length acceptance of
their stepparents.
But before my husband and I gotmarried, I actually remember
having a really tearfulconversation, cuz again, I was
mourning my own baggage and justwanting to get it right and as
(10:33):
if there's some right way to bea stepparent.
But again, it was just thebaggage that I was carrying into
it and I had to do the work and.
We definitely made attempts toprepare our children or his
children from his first marriagefor our new family dynamic, and
then we changed again because wealso welcome children into our
(10:53):
family through adoptions.
I definitely did thingsdifferently because I was a
stepchild, but I definitely puta lot of pressure on myself in
those early years.
So do you have a story orsomething that you could share
about moving in together andmerging?
Any, I'm just thinking like mykids are at that age where farts
(11:15):
are really funny, so I canimagine that being a funny
thing.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (11:19):
Yeah, farts are always funny.
There's never a time when fartsare not funny.
I, from my little one, I got alot of questions, we were gonna
have another baby, and theanswer vehemently has been and
continues to be No.
There will be no additionalchildren to bind us together
somehow.
We've got a full house.
there's no, no need, no desire.
(11:41):
The kitchen is closed, buttruthfully, it's just been nice
to see them.
I'm my younger daughter'sextremely social.
My older daughter's a little bitmore of an introvert.
She just has a couple of closefriends and my little one can
walk down the street and make ahundred friends within five or
10 minutes.
So it's just been interesting tosee my older one kind of open up
(12:03):
as she has these more likecontemporary kids that are, her
contemporaries.
Living with her and seeing howshe like lights up when they're
around.
They do have a lot of funtogether and I think before when
it was just her old mom and herlittle sister, she just didn't
have the built in playmates thatshe now does.
And so it's nice to see them dothings and they play a lot of
(12:26):
pranks on us.
The other day came downstairs.
Change the screen on the TV tobe like a broken screen.
It's like a screensaver thatthey were pretending to play
ball in the living room.
And then all of a sudden I justhear, heard all the screaming,
and I came down and the TVscreen is a mess.
And I was like, Oh my God, whathappened?
They're like, We broke thescreen.
And, they had me going for awhile and then eventually they
(12:48):
revealed that it was just ascreener on the screen tv.
So they're having fun, which isnice, but not exactly an
embarrassing story except forthe fact that I was not smart
enough to realize it was ascreen saver.
they really enjoyed egging me on
Traci Dority-Shanklin (13:05):
Yeah.
Did you get any.
Or anything that you rememberthat somebody said to you that
really helped or didn't help?
Maybe you got some bad advicewhen you were thinking about
blending these families
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (13:17):
prior to that, I remember when I was
going through my divorce and Ihad a lot of support around me.
I did have one person, Somebodysaid, everybody I know that got
divorced, regrets it.
And I remember looking at thatperson and thinking, I don't
really have anything to say toyou anymore because I was it
took me everything in my powerto get to that point of deciding
that I was going to make themove, that I was making that, I
(13:40):
didn't feel seen or heard orsupported at all.
And I have no regrets.
In terms of the advice.
I, for one thing, I had a lot ofpeople say never.
Never speak badly about your exor the other person's ex.
And we really hold to that rule.
Of course, we don't haveanything bad to say.
Our whole thing is listen,everybody's welcome.
(14:00):
When they come to drop off thekids, they're welcome to come
in.
We just, we want everyone tofeel like this is an extended
family.
And even though it's not exactlyhow.
They might envision their lifeto have gone, or certainly how
we envisioned our life to havegone.
This is the way it unfolded andwe're making the best of it, so
(14:20):
let's just treat each other withkindness.
That's like the commondenominator that we have going
on.
We don't, no one's at fault.
This is just how it turned out.
And so we're gonna make the bestwith what our current situation,
which.
I know the kids didn't choosewhat we are trying to have,
create a reality that is stillpalatable and enjoyable and
(14:44):
overall as, as positive as wecan make it.
So having those guidelines oflet's keep it positive, has
been, that has been a savinggrace.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (14:52):
I think you're saying a lot of really
wonderful things, cuz I thinkanother thing is if you can
almost as advice to people whoare blending, have like together
with your partner, create avision for the family.
And it can be as simple as let'skeep it positive, right?
that's the vision or themission, if you will.
So I think it's a reallyimportant thing.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (15:15):
Yeah, and I think the other fear for
the kids certainly was like, Oh,hey, what's gonna change?
are we still gonna have like ouroutings just with dad or just
with mom?
And the answer is yes, we're notbound to each other now on the
weekends where, or in theevenings where we have to do
things all together.
The six of us, we really made itvery clear that other than
living under the same roof, notthat much else is gonna change.
(15:38):
Do we do things together?
The six of us, as a blendedfamily, of course, we have aa
trip coming up for spring breakthat we're super excited about,
but I still just do things withmy kids.
He just went to a Sixers Lakersbasketball game with his kid.
We still try to keep thedynamics amongst a dad and his
boys and a mom and her daughtersto be very sacred.
(15:59):
And that is important and we'vereally, I think, held true to
that request, that fear has notbecome a reality and we've made
a conscious effort to reallyuphold that promise.
Traci Dority-Shankli (16:11):
Wonderful.
So according to UNICEF, theCovid pandemic negatively
impacted, as you know, everyoneknows this mental health of our
nation's children.
The lockdowns, the socialisolation, brought a lot of
grief and fear and a lot ofparental fatigue.
So there was a report, CBSreporter Jane Crawford said that
(16:35):
our covid policies have had acrushing impact on our nation's
children and that this has beenone of the most unreported
stories of 2021.
So I know that you work in thepharmaceutical industry and
you've built your entire careeron health and wellness and
fitness.
Do you have any suggestions ortips for parents and their
(16:57):
children?
What we can do to help, preserveor protect their mental health.
I know it's a big question, soI'm, and I, by no means do we
expect you to be an expert, butjust your experience in the
health and wellness world andpharmaceuticals.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (17:11):
Well, I mean, I think we all saw
firsthand just how devastatingit was, especially, I think more
than anything for the kids to belearning on Zoom at home, away
from their peers and theirfriends.
And it was just, it was trulyheartbreaking, I think, for all
of us.
This is gonna probably soundsomewhat trite, but we tried to
(17:32):
take walks every day.
we're lucky.
We live in California where it'ssunny, 355 days of the year, but
tried to take walks every day.
I was fortunate enough to have atrampoline in our backyard and
so we, we jumped a lot and Itried.
Just do something physicallyactive with them every day.
(17:54):
That vitamin D outside, I thinkprobably was the biggest game
changer.
Cause you know, there wasn'tthere, there weren't the
activities.
There was a while where soccerwas canceled and all kind.
The other team sports was, youcouldn't even hit a tennis ball
because if you tucked one ball,Oh, cross-contamination.
I mean, it was, it was wild Sojust that physical activity I
(18:15):
think made a big difference.
But Do I have advice?
No, I just, I think what I'membracing for as the next couple
of years and seeing how this allshakes out because I think
there's gonna be, a lot ofpeople are talking about the
pandemic after the pandemic,which is as we begin to slowly
go back to normal or this newnormal, like my stepson and
(18:36):
ended, began the pandemic as aseventh grader and went back to
school as a high schooler.
think about that.
Or the college kids, I have notried and true answers yet I
might in a few years, or atleast some some tangible advice
that I could offer, but for now,I'm just watching the signs and
bracing myself for what is tocome because there's gonna be
(18:58):
some pretty big fallout for manyof us on, the last two years,
certainly for our kids.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (19:04):
Yeah, you mentioned exercise and I have a
daughter who struggles withanxiety and that is a huge
component to her, And she'snaturally knows it.
Sometimes she just wants to getout of the car and run the rest
of the way home.
like she's, cuz she just knowsthat there's, that's one way for
her to dissipate that feeling.
So it's a really wonderful thingthat you were aware of it cuz I,
(19:28):
it took me watching a childsuffer for a while to realize
how important, like reallyenforcing some form of physical
activity was But I was on theroad during Covid and an RV with
my kids, so we were outside alot.
So like you, we were out and wewere doing things and it, and it
really helped soften the blow.
But I do see it.
I do see it.
(19:49):
I'm no, I've shared with you apersonal story where I had to
leave town And it was reallyhard when I had to leave town
that first time.
coming off of the lockdown andthe isolation of really, I had
spent almost two years, feltlike nonstop 24/7 with my kids.
At least a year and a half.
And that was a bit of a rockytransition.
(20:10):
But we made it through, and Ithink you're right that the
fallout is could, there could belonger term fallout that we just
don't know.
I have one more big question.
I just realized that I have onemore.
actually I have two, so I knowthat my listeners are
predominantly women and I haveto know about aesthetics, and
(20:31):
what you're doing.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (20:33):
I'm doing business development which
kind of combines, you know, my,my passion for beauty and health
and wellness with helping whatare predominantly small business
owners develop, another streamof revenue.
And that was my biggest takeawayfrom owning the studios was
just, helping, studio ownersRecognize their strength and
acting as almost like in aconsultative way to, because I
(20:56):
was early on, in, in the PureBarre, in the pure bar phase.
So I was able to share a lot ofmy trials and tribulations and
my learnings to hopefully help alot of people, avoid some of the
pitfalls that I wasn't able to.
And I'm seeing now to the pointthat you had earlier of being
able to take that, thoseexperiences of helping business
(21:19):
owners and also running my ownbusinesses simultaneously.
And transferring those skillsinto the role that I'm in now
has just been very exciting.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (21:29):
And I think that, aesthetics is
something that every, everyone'sgonna have their own approach to
that.
So to me, if it's something thatmakes you feel better and more
empowered, then you should gofor it.
And I just had a conversationwith a doctor who is in
aesthetics and he was justtalking about some of the
amazing things that are comingout in terms of anti-aging that
(21:53):
really.
Almost could eliminate any kindof facial surgery if you're, if
you wanted to go down that path.
So it was, it's it's prettyexciting.
It's a pretty exciting, I wouldthink, part of the market to be
in.
And I'm happy that you foundyour road to travel in this
chapter of your life, andcongratulations on your recent
engagement as well, that'samazing.
(22:13):
And your.
so many changes.
okay, so the big question ifthere is one piece of advice
that you could tell your youngerself, what would you want her to
know?
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (22:23):
Well, I, I once read, and I'm trying
to remember where, it wasprobably a meme on Instagram,
but that you find yourself withthe partner that you think that
you deserve.
And who you choose is really adirect reflection on how you
feel about yourself.
And I think.
I probably would have found waysto give myself, I dunno if this
(22:44):
is even possible, but find waysto believe in myself much more
than I did.
Cuz I think I made a lot ofchoices based on the person that
I believed that I was as, asopposed to, who I really was.
And I don't really think I wasable to really step into my
power until, the last 10 or 15years.
Probably, maybe just like a.
(23:05):
I'd probably give myself somekind of like a crash course in
confidence and self worth.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (23:10):
Amen.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (23:11):
I dunno if that exists.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (23:12):
If it does sign me up! It is, it is
about the journey in the end,and I think that's what we're
here to talk about is this isall part of the journey.
And if you find yourself in ablended family situation or in
my case, even coming tomotherhood in a different, in,
in multiple different ways, itis all.
Really exactly where you'resupposed to be, but it is part
(23:35):
of, you're learning something atevery juncture, Anyway, thank
you so much, Marni, for being aguest today.
You are such a light, and I amjust honored to say that I know
you and to have had you as aguest on our premier episode.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (23:51):
Thank you for having me, Traci.
It was a pleasure to be here.
It's so good to see you.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (23:56):
Yes, I know.
Really.
I look forward to when we dothis in person the next time I'm
in California.
We'll, definitely.
Sit down and maybe do a followup chat and see how things are
going.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (24:08):
Would love it.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (24:09):
Sounds great.
A big thank you to all of ourlisteners for tuning in to the
Nuclear Families Evangelist,where we enlist experts and
humor to help unlock our hiddensuperpower of being blended.
Like you, I live and breathe myNuclear families every day.
I am a wife, a mother throughmarriage, a mother again through
(24:30):
adoption, and a daughter and ahalf sister from my very own
eccentric family with multiplemarriages and multiple blended
families.
See you on the next episode ofthe Nuclear Families Evangelist,
where we debunk the mythologiesof biology with a lot of love,
forgiveness, and humor, oneconversation at a time.
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LLC.
For those of you just tuning in, I have
been speaking with my friendMarni Rosenthal-Chaikin.
Marni works in thepharmaceutical industry, but
before that, she was anentrepreneur in the health and
wellness industry, which iswhere I met her.
In our previous episode, Marnitouches on getting engaged and
becoming a bonus mom to his twochildren from a previous
(00:42):
marriage.
So let's pick up theconversation with Marni, where
we left off.
When I married my husband, hehad two children from a previous
marriage, so I went right frombeing a single career woman to
being an instant co-parent onour wedding day.
Not that we had not, I had notmet his children.
Clearly I had, but it was mystepson.
(01:05):
Within a year, I think of ourmarriage, maybe two, moved in
with us.
How has co-parenting changed orbeen impact?
By your divorce, so co-parentingwith your ex.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (01:17):
Hmm.
We try to keep our lines ofcommunication open as well.
The kids go back and forth.
They love their dad, they loveme.
I think they somewhatbegrudgingly go back and forth.
Nothing against him or I, but itof course can be hard.
So I try to do, make sure thatthere's plenty of clean
underwear over there and plentyof clean underwear over here.
(01:41):
This is the way of the worldthese days.
I think for at least 50 or 60%of the children, unfortunately,
Traci Dority-Shanklin (01:48):
It's actually lower than I thought.
It's gone down, It's 45% I wassurprised but I will say that
it's high that second marriagesare the ones that struggle.
I would say probably, often thestruggle is blending families is
that's, It's a hard thing to do.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (02:08):
Yeah.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (02:09):
But it, it can be very rewarding.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (02:11):
I have a lot of friends that found
their person and are, but areliving apart.
I have friends that havedivorced that are still looking.
I know people that are notplanning to date until their
children are out of the house,and I don't believe that there's
necessarily, a right or wrong.
I also know of people that.
(02:32):
Have been married and divorcedfive times, and
Traci Dority-Shanklin (02:34):
So do I.
I come from a family of those.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (02:40):
I also feel like when you divorce,
especially with young kids,You're putting your life, you're
blowing it up.
And the, there's just what'sleft is ashes.
And so you have to be strongenough to find new pieces to
rebuild and you have to rebuildyourself and who you rebuild as
a completely different personthan who you knew in your prior
(03:00):
marriage.
And it's often more than notsomebody that you like a lot
better than the person from yourprevious relationship.
I know for me, when I was inIsrael with the Jewish Women's
Renaissance Project and there,there was a big sign up that
said, No one is coming to rescueyou.
And I remember looking at thatand thinking, Yeah, no, this is
it.
Like I, I am on my own, but Ihave made it on my own and.
(03:24):
Realizing that I think actuallyopened me up to be able to
actually have a partnership,because being able to know so
full well that you've builtyour, you've torn yourself down,
let yourself on fire, and thenbuilt yourself back up into a
new, stronger, better version ofyourself.
I think for me, certain.
(03:46):
Made me feel confident that nomatter what came my way, I would
be okay.
And so having this wonderful,beautiful, fulfilling
relationship was like an icingon a cake that like I had
already baked myself.
And I think that.
Being able to compliment eachother in that way after having
been through what we've beenthrough was, I wouldn't have
been ready for somebody like myfiance 25 years ago, and there's
(04:09):
just no way because I was atotally different person.
So being able to receive thatkind of love and that kind of
partnership now, it feels like areward, honestly, because I went
through what I went through andbecause I did the work to get
where I am.
So I could have easily just,stayed my immature self and I
probably would've been repeatingthe same patterns, which is
(04:30):
probably why a lot of people getdivorced three and four and five
times.
And again, that's.
That's none of my business.
But I know that they'retypically blaming the other
person each and every time.
And sometimes you have to take agood, hard look at yourself.
and I know for me, I really didthat and had to change a lot
about myself in order to be ableto place myself into a new
(04:51):
situation.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (04:52):
Really well said and beautiful because
it really does take work.
divorce is not easy and I havenot ever been divorced, but
obviously my husband had been,and I lived through both of my
parents, not just divorcing eachother, but then divorcing again,
there are third spouses.
(05:13):
So even when it was astep-parent divorcing my dad or
my mom, I definitely felt it.
It still was because you can'thelp when you are that close.
And I did see, in retrospect nowI've done a lot of work like you
and myself.
I think I get a lot more aboutwhy my parents struggled the way
(05:36):
they did to sort of find thatthey were looking outside of
themselves for something thatwas, instead of looking inside
themselves for that answer.
Ultimately, I think they.
Probably got there.
I can't speak for them, but Iwould like to think that they
had, that's certainly my hopefor them.
I was talking aboutco-parenting.
How has it been, cuz you're inessence, a co-parent now and
(06:00):
with your stepsons, so I knowthey're not officially stepsons
yet, but you guys, I'm sure youfeel that they're your part of
you.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (06:08):
Oh, yes.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (06:10):
Nuclear families is really a
resurrection of something that Iwas doing before I had my
children.
A lot of it was based on being astep-parent, because at the time
that was my experience ofmotherhood.
and When I was doing it before,there seemed to be a lot of it
can get, I guess when I wasblogging, I would get frustrated
(06:30):
because all I would hear isabout how the ex was this and
the ex was that, and it's sofrustrating and I really wanted
to come at it from a perspectiveof, let's do the work on you,
because if you're feeling thatway, it's usually about you.
You can't worry about them.
All you can do is change you.
And then, how are you going tomake this, How are you going to
(06:53):
take yourself out of theequation, forgetting about what
you might feel and making itabout the kids, because they're
the ones who are really the,they're the recipient.
They're the ones that take onall the other, the bad stuff.
Because they don't, they're,it's not their relationship
that's broken.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (07:10):
Yeah.
It's true.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (07:11):
And I'm just interested how you're
getting along with his ex-wifeand how is that, how have you
navigated that?
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (07:18):
For on all fronts, there's a lot of
communication and I, at onepoint, sent her a message,
especially during the time thatwe were really blending and
moving in with one another tojust say, Hey, listen, I'll
never be their mom.
You're gonna be their momforever and ever, but I will be
there for them and I will alwayslove them and certainly keep
(07:42):
them safe and watch over themwhen they're here because I put
myself in that position if myex-husband were living with a
woman or dating somebody who hewas with around my daughters, I
would wanna hear, I know itwould feel like a blessing to
hear that from the individualwho had my kids 20 or 30 or 40%
of the time.
So, um, and I meant it too.
(08:02):
I have no intention of evertaking the place of somebody
else's mother by any means.
I felt that it was importantthat she know that I always
intend to treat them as my ownwhen they're in my presence.
And I do love them tremendously.
So they're easy to love.
they're good kids.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (08:20):
Not everybody would agree with me,
but I think most people in theend would say, You're right.
They're all easy to love.
That's,
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (08:25):
Yeah.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (08:26):
That's great.
That's good.
Yeah, I shared that experience.
I didn't come from theperspective of having been a
mom.
I came from it having been astepchild and I knew organically
was that I didn't like feelinglike there was a competition
because, you know, know, my mombless her, was pretty devastated
(08:46):
when my parents split.
It felt there was a lot of, Ithink, just pent up jealousy and
I would, I was feeling it andreceiving it and hearing it
probably as well.
And so when I got with myhusband, one of the things that
I did was I actually asked hisex-wife out to lunch, and I
think it was a turning point forthe relationship that I have
(09:08):
with my stepchildren is cuz theyended up.
Coming to the restaurant andseeing us together.
And I think they were assurprised as anyone to see me
sitting there.
They were looking for her to getmoney for something and she was
like, I'm here.
And yeah, she's around all thetime.
not all the time, but all thebig events for sure.
We have, done together.
(09:30):
it does, it's an importantaspect.
Absolutely.
Again, my blended family has notbeen smooth sailing.
We've had a lot of adjustmentperiod.
Even though I grew up in stepfamilies and it made me more
aware and slightly morecalculated in my responses to my
stepchildren, I made some bigmistakes.
(09:51):
I remember I wanted so much inthe beginning to have instant
relationships with my step kids,and I think I alluded to this
earlier and felt like such afailure when it didn't play out
that way.
And I forgot in the early daysthat there was this natural
unconscious need for the childto protect the absent parent.
(10:11):
And these protective instinctsare the source of many
children's like indifference,our arms length acceptance of
their stepparents.
But before my husband and I gotmarried, I actually remember
having a really tearfulconversation, cuz again, I was
mourning my own baggage and justwanting to get it right and as
(10:33):
if there's some right way to bea stepparent.
But again, it was just thebaggage that I was carrying into
it and I had to do the work and.
We definitely made attempts toprepare our children or his
children from his first marriagefor our new family dynamic, and
then we changed again because wealso welcome children into our
(10:53):
family through adoptions.
I definitely did thingsdifferently because I was a
stepchild, but I definitely puta lot of pressure on myself in
those early years.
So do you have a story orsomething that you could share
about moving in together andmerging?
Any, I'm just thinking like mykids are at that age where farts
(11:15):
are really funny, so I canimagine that being a funny
thing.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (11:19):
Yeah, farts are always funny.
There's never a time when fartsare not funny.
I, from my little one, I got alot of questions, we were gonna
have another baby, and theanswer vehemently has been and
continues to be No.
There will be no additionalchildren to bind us together
somehow.
We've got a full house.
there's no, no need, no desire.
(11:41):
The kitchen is closed, buttruthfully, it's just been nice
to see them.
I'm my younger daughter'sextremely social.
My older daughter's a little bitmore of an introvert.
She just has a couple of closefriends and my little one can
walk down the street and make ahundred friends within five or
10 minutes.
So it's just been interesting tosee my older one kind of open up
(12:03):
as she has these more likecontemporary kids that are, her
contemporaries.
Living with her and seeing howshe like lights up when they're
around.
They do have a lot of funtogether and I think before when
it was just her old mom and herlittle sister, she just didn't
have the built in playmates thatshe now does.
And so it's nice to see them dothings and they play a lot of
(12:26):
pranks on us.
The other day came downstairs.
Change the screen on the TV tobe like a broken screen.
It's like a screensaver thatthey were pretending to play
ball in the living room.
And then all of a sudden I justhear, heard all the screaming,
and I came down and the TVscreen is a mess.
And I was like, Oh my God, whathappened?
They're like, We broke thescreen.
And, they had me going for awhile and then eventually they
(12:48):
revealed that it was just ascreener on the screen tv.
So they're having fun, which isnice, but not exactly an
embarrassing story except forthe fact that I was not smart
enough to realize it was ascreen saver.
they really enjoyed egging me on
Traci Dority-Shanklin (13:05):
Yeah.
Did you get any.
Or anything that you rememberthat somebody said to you that
really helped or didn't help?
Maybe you got some bad advicewhen you were thinking about
blending these families
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (13:17):
prior to that, I remember when I was
going through my divorce and Ihad a lot of support around me.
I did have one person, Somebodysaid, everybody I know that got
divorced, regrets it.
And I remember looking at thatperson and thinking, I don't
really have anything to say toyou anymore because I was it
took me everything in my powerto get to that point of deciding
that I was going to make themove, that I was making that, I
(13:40):
didn't feel seen or heard orsupported at all.
And I have no regrets.
In terms of the advice.
I, for one thing, I had a lot ofpeople say never.
Never speak badly about your exor the other person's ex.
And we really hold to that rule.
Of course, we don't haveanything bad to say.
Our whole thing is listen,everybody's welcome.
(14:00):
When they come to drop off thekids, they're welcome to come
in.
We just, we want everyone tofeel like this is an extended
family.
And even though it's not exactlyhow.
They might envision their lifeto have gone, or certainly how
we envisioned our life to havegone.
This is the way it unfolded andwe're making the best of it, so
(14:20):
let's just treat each other withkindness.
That's like the commondenominator that we have going
on.
We don't, no one's at fault.
This is just how it turned out.
And so we're gonna make the bestwith what our current situation,
which.
I know the kids didn't choosewhat we are trying to have,
create a reality that is stillpalatable and enjoyable and
(14:44):
overall as, as positive as wecan make it.
So having those guidelines oflet's keep it positive, has
been, that has been a savinggrace.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (14:52):
I think you're saying a lot of really
wonderful things, cuz I thinkanother thing is if you can
almost as advice to people whoare blending, have like together
with your partner, create avision for the family.
And it can be as simple as let'skeep it positive, right?
that's the vision or themission, if you will.
So I think it's a reallyimportant thing.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (15:15):
Yeah, and I think the other fear for
the kids certainly was like, Oh,hey, what's gonna change?
are we still gonna have like ouroutings just with dad or just
with mom?
And the answer is yes, we're notbound to each other now on the
weekends where, or in theevenings where we have to do
things all together.
The six of us, we really made itvery clear that other than
living under the same roof, notthat much else is gonna change.
(15:38):
Do we do things together?
The six of us, as a blendedfamily, of course, we have aa
trip coming up for spring breakthat we're super excited about,
but I still just do things withmy kids.
He just went to a Sixers Lakersbasketball game with his kid.
We still try to keep thedynamics amongst a dad and his
boys and a mom and her daughtersto be very sacred.
(15:59):
And that is important and we'vereally, I think, held true to
that request, that fear has notbecome a reality and we've made
a conscious effort to reallyuphold that promise.
Traci Dority-Shankli (16:11):
Wonderful.
So according to UNICEF, theCovid pandemic negatively
impacted, as you know, everyoneknows this mental health of our
nation's children.
The lockdowns, the socialisolation, brought a lot of
grief and fear and a lot ofparental fatigue.
So there was a report, CBSreporter Jane Crawford said that
(16:35):
our covid policies have had acrushing impact on our nation's
children and that this has beenone of the most unreported
stories of 2021.
So I know that you work in thepharmaceutical industry and
you've built your entire careeron health and wellness and
fitness.
Do you have any suggestions ortips for parents and their
(16:57):
children?
What we can do to help, preserveor protect their mental health.
I know it's a big question, soI'm, and I, by no means do we
expect you to be an expert, butjust your experience in the
health and wellness world andpharmaceuticals.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (17:11):
Well, I mean, I think we all saw
firsthand just how devastatingit was, especially, I think more
than anything for the kids to belearning on Zoom at home, away
from their peers and theirfriends.
And it was just, it was trulyheartbreaking, I think, for all
of us.
This is gonna probably soundsomewhat trite, but we tried to
(17:32):
take walks every day.
we're lucky.
We live in California where it'ssunny, 355 days of the year, but
tried to take walks every day.
I was fortunate enough to have atrampoline in our backyard and
so we, we jumped a lot and Itried.
Just do something physicallyactive with them every day.
(17:54):
That vitamin D outside, I thinkprobably was the biggest game
changer.
Cause you know, there wasn'tthere, there weren't the
activities.
There was a while where soccerwas canceled and all kind.
The other team sports was, youcouldn't even hit a tennis ball
because if you tucked one ball,Oh, cross-contamination.
I mean, it was, it was wild Sojust that physical activity I
(18:15):
think made a big difference.
But Do I have advice?
No, I just, I think what I'membracing for as the next couple
of years and seeing how this allshakes out because I think
there's gonna be, a lot ofpeople are talking about the
pandemic after the pandemic,which is as we begin to slowly
go back to normal or this newnormal, like my stepson and
(18:36):
ended, began the pandemic as aseventh grader and went back to
school as a high schooler.
think about that.
Or the college kids, I have notried and true answers yet I
might in a few years, or atleast some some tangible advice
that I could offer, but for now,I'm just watching the signs and
bracing myself for what is tocome because there's gonna be
(18:58):
some pretty big fallout for manyof us on, the last two years,
certainly for our kids.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (19:04):
Yeah, you mentioned exercise and I have a
daughter who struggles withanxiety and that is a huge
component to her, And she'snaturally knows it.
Sometimes she just wants to getout of the car and run the rest
of the way home.
like she's, cuz she just knowsthat there's, that's one way for
her to dissipate that feeling.
So it's a really wonderful thingthat you were aware of it cuz I,
(19:28):
it took me watching a childsuffer for a while to realize
how important, like reallyenforcing some form of physical
activity was But I was on theroad during Covid and an RV with
my kids, so we were outside alot.
So like you, we were out and wewere doing things and it, and it
really helped soften the blow.
But I do see it.
I do see it.
(19:49):
I'm no, I've shared with you apersonal story where I had to
leave town And it was reallyhard when I had to leave town
that first time.
coming off of the lockdown andthe isolation of really, I had
spent almost two years, feltlike nonstop 24/7 with my kids.
At least a year and a half.
And that was a bit of a rockytransition.
(20:10):
But we made it through, and Ithink you're right that the
fallout is could, there could belonger term fallout that we just
don't know.
I have one more big question.
I just realized that I have onemore.
actually I have two, so I knowthat my listeners are
predominantly women and I haveto know about aesthetics, and
(20:31):
what you're doing.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (20:33):
I'm doing business development which
kind of combines, you know, my,my passion for beauty and health
and wellness with helping whatare predominantly small business
owners develop, another streamof revenue.
And that was my biggest takeawayfrom owning the studios was
just, helping, studio ownersRecognize their strength and
acting as almost like in aconsultative way to, because I
(20:56):
was early on, in, in the PureBarre, in the pure bar phase.
So I was able to share a lot ofmy trials and tribulations and
my learnings to hopefully help alot of people, avoid some of the
pitfalls that I wasn't able to.
And I'm seeing now to the pointthat you had earlier of being
able to take that, thoseexperiences of helping business
(21:19):
owners and also running my ownbusinesses simultaneously.
And transferring those skillsinto the role that I'm in now
has just been very exciting.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (21:29):
And I think that, aesthetics is
something that every, everyone'sgonna have their own approach to
that.
So to me, if it's something thatmakes you feel better and more
empowered, then you should gofor it.
And I just had a conversationwith a doctor who is in
aesthetics and he was justtalking about some of the
amazing things that are comingout in terms of anti-aging that
(21:53):
really.
Almost could eliminate any kindof facial surgery if you're, if
you wanted to go down that path.
So it was, it's it's prettyexciting.
It's a pretty exciting, I wouldthink, part of the market to be
in.
And I'm happy that you foundyour road to travel in this
chapter of your life, andcongratulations on your recent
engagement as well, that'samazing.
(22:13):
And your.
so many changes.
okay, so the big question ifthere is one piece of advice
that you could tell your youngerself, what would you want her to
know?
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (22:23):
Well, I, I once read, and I'm trying
to remember where, it wasprobably a meme on Instagram,
but that you find yourself withthe partner that you think that
you deserve.
And who you choose is really adirect reflection on how you
feel about yourself.
And I think.
I probably would have found waysto give myself, I dunno if this
(22:44):
is even possible, but find waysto believe in myself much more
than I did.
Cuz I think I made a lot ofchoices based on the person that
I believed that I was as, asopposed to, who I really was.
And I don't really think I wasable to really step into my
power until, the last 10 or 15years.
Probably, maybe just like a.
(23:05):
I'd probably give myself somekind of like a crash course in
confidence and self worth.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (23:10):
Amen.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (23:11):
I dunno if that exists.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (23:12):
If it does sign me up! It is, it is
about the journey in the end,and I think that's what we're
here to talk about is this isall part of the journey.
And if you find yourself in ablended family situation or in
my case, even coming tomotherhood in a different, in,
in multiple different ways, itis all.
Really exactly where you'resupposed to be, but it is part
(23:35):
of, you're learning something atevery juncture, Anyway, thank
you so much, Marni, for being aguest today.
You are such a light, and I amjust honored to say that I know
you and to have had you as aguest on our premier episode.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (23:51):
Thank you for having me, Traci.
It was a pleasure to be here.
It's so good to see you.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (23:56):
Yes, I know.
Really.
I look forward to when we dothis in person the next time I'm
in California.
We'll, definitely.
Sit down and maybe do a followup chat and see how things are
going.
Marni Rosenthal-Chaikin (24:08):
Would love it.
Traci Dority-Shanklin (24:09):
Sounds great.
A big thank you to all of ourlisteners for tuning in to the
Nuclear Families Evangelist,where we enlist experts and
humor to help unlock our hiddensuperpower of being blended.
Like you, I live and breathe myNuclear families every day.
I am a wife, a mother throughmarriage, a mother again through
(24:30):
adoption, and a daughter and ahalf sister from my very own
eccentric family with multiplemarriages and multiple blended
families.
See you on the next episode ofthe Nuclear Families Evangelist,
where we debunk the mythologiesof biology with a lot of love,
forgiveness, and humor, oneconversation at a time.
(25:17):
Sisu Partners, LLC hosts theNuclear Families Evangelist
podcast, which contains contentand discussions that have been
prepared for informational,educational and entertainment
purposes only.
No listeners should assume thatany discussion on this podcast
serves as a recipe of orsubstitute for personalized
advice from an investmentprofessional or licensed medical
professional, as the informationprovided on this podcast is not
intended to be investment,legal, tax, or medical advice.
(25:39):
The company is not an SECregistered investment advisor
and does not solicit clients orraise capital for money managers
Sisu Partners offer securitiesthrough XT Capital Partners,
LLC.
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