The Keto Diet, How to Find Motivation, A Lighter Alternative to Bread & Is Organic Produce Worth It?
August 15, 2021 • 34 mins
From Leanne and Susie on The Nutrition Couch this episode:
- We chat about a media article which asks: Is the Keto diet effective?
- Our 'Client Case Study of the Week' is about motivation, how do we find it and keep it?
- Our 'Supermarket Product of the Week' is a lighter alternative to bread; and
- Our listener question is all about organic fruit and veggies, are they worth it?
So sit back, relax and enjoy this week’s episode!
Don't Miss an Episode
Don’t forget to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode and follow us on social media @the_nutrition_couch_podcast to ask us questions & see our food product reviews.
It would mean the world to us if you could leave us a 5 star review in the purple Apple podcast app (scroll to the bottom of the app to find the ratings and reviews) as this really helps push up higher in the charts to expose our podcast to more ears.
Please follow Susie on her Instagram & Facebook and Leanne on her Instagram, TikTok and the Leanne Ward Nutrition Podcast.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Susie Burrow and I'm Leanne Wood and welcome
to the Nutrition Couch, a weekly podcast from two of us.
Stay is leading dieticians, bringing you everything that is new
in the world of nutrition, diets and good food from
the Nutrition Couch. Today, we're chatting all things kito. We're
asked about it all the time, so what do we
really think of kito as an effective diet? And you
(00:23):
will hear us as honest as we get. In our
client case study, we chat all about motivation and why
our clients are finding things so tough at the moment
and what our tips are to help you find your
own motivation. Our product review this week is on a
lighter alternative to bread, and our listener question we discuss
all things vegetables and is it worth paying extra for
organic fruit and veggies. But to kick us off this week, Leanne,
(00:47):
what's happening up in Brisbane?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Well, SUSI, we're in the midst of our lockdown again,
but we don't want to spend another podcast talking about
this silly lockdown, so let's keep it positive. I think
we're closer to Christmas than we are otherwise we're that
hump were you know, well into August now, so a
lot of us would be you know, plannings and beautiful
summer holidays are over in Europe, but that's not going
to happen this year, so I think, you know, something
to look forward to Christmas. Hopefully we'll be able to
(01:11):
catch up with families, you know, a lot of a
little bit of time off from work and the kids
are done with school, that sort of thing in a
couple of months time, so winding down for the rest
of the year. I think it's good to sort of
set some new goals towards the end of the year
and get you know, get us motivated. Which is a
good topic of the podcast today.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Is it. It's always an exciting time for dietitians leading
into spring and good weather, and I am really tossing
up with her to book my holiday to Hamilton Island,
which I just adore. So it's a bit watch and wait,
but it is a really pertinent time to get diets started.
I guess people are interested in weight loss, So when
we discussed our prep for this podcast, I really thought
(01:49):
it was time we mentioned the diet elephant in the room,
which is keto. We've been avoiding because as dietitians, keto
in itself is quite polarizing, and I know it's dietitians
we have quite set feelings around keto, but it can
be an effective diet in the sense that generally clinical
(02:09):
dietitians were trained in ketogenic diets because of course they
are actual clinical treatment for some neurological conditions, so it's
not like we're not across them, and I definitely have
thoughts on them. So I thought it warranted a good
chat because we definitely get asked a lot of questions.
So I'll kick off with my thoughts on it, and
then I'd love to hear yours because we have trained
several years between our training, so it's always interesting to
(02:31):
hear different clinicians' perspectives. So the first thing I want
to say is that keto or ketogenic diets, in which
it is a high fat, extremely low carbohydrate diet less
than about ten percent of energy coming from carbohydrates, is
a very effective diet. But my issue with it is
that it's really hard to do. It's actually really challenging
(02:52):
to achieve those macro nutrients. Most people can't do it
for any extended period of time, and if they manage it,
they often rebound and go back to old habits very
very quickly. And my argument with most people is they're
actually not doing it. So people think that they're doing
keto because they cut out their carbohydrates and they swap
to say eggs and smoked salmon for breakfast and salads
(03:13):
for lunch, and then creamy, high fat foods for dinner.
But if you took a close look at their macro nutrients,
very rarely do I find they've got about seventy percent
fat required to induce ketosis, along with the calorie deficiencies
logo reduction in calories, and also less than ten percent carbohydrate.
And my observation is most people are just doing a
low carb diet, so they put in plenty of eggs,
(03:34):
they put in protein powder, and the reality nutritionally is
that that's not a keto diet. Just because you have
more fat and have cut out the carbohydrates doesn't automatically
put you into keto. It's actually really hard to achieve ketosis.
It takes two or three days at least a very
strict dieting. The only way I ever use it with
my clients as part of a VLCD, a total mirror replacement,
(03:56):
which is formulated to be a less than eight hundred
calorie and inducee qutos is based on calorie restriction and
formulated foods. But for me, I have very very few
clients who are actually doing it. And I saw online
a nutritionist had put that her clients were doing keto
with MIRR replacements, and she put for breakfast two eggs
and two asparagus spears. And I guarantee you those clients
(04:17):
are not in keto because it's actually not very high
in protein, which means you can't overcompensate with extra meats, salmon, eggs.
It just doesn't achieve those macro nutrients. So it will
work if you can do it, but in my experience,
people aren't doing it. They can't do it, and it's
definitely not a sustainable way to lose body fat. And
I definitely find with my women if there's a degree
of insulin resistance present, it doesn't work as effectively at
(04:39):
shifting that two three kilos a week as it would
if you didn't have insulin resistance. And because a lot
of my clients do have insulin resistance, I definitely don't
opt for a keto diet because I know I can
get pretty good results on a reduced calorie diet via
fasting other ways of eating which are much more palatable
long term than a ketogenic diet. So that's mine initial
(05:00):
thoughts on it. What do you think?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
And I think the biggest I guess misconception is that,
as you mentioned, people cut out the carbs, increase the fat,
but they also boost the protein up because they're like,
you know, protein's great, we know it's important for our
muscle mass. But too much protein then the body would
turn it likes to use carbohydrate first. Is it's fuel sauce.
It's the easiest fuel source to use. You know, we're
able to use it really effectively. When we don't have
enough carbohydrates, the body will then turn to proteins. We
(05:23):
very overcompensating with protein. The body's going to use the
protein as a fuel source and thus we're not in kotosis.
So I actually when the kido diet became really popular,
I would say maybe six seven years ago, now quite
a long time ago. I was in my maybe early twenties,
I did a full ketogenic diet. I was peeing on
the keytone sticks. I had, you know, like really fruity
smelling urine, like I was in full katosis. And I
(05:45):
did that for I would say at least a good
four to six weeks. And the benefit for me was
the app the huge reduction and appetite, but the negatives,
Oh my god, I was putting butter in my coffee, sosh.
I could not get my fat intake high enough. I'm
just not somebody that with he likes fat or eats
a large amount of fat in my diet. For me
to eat carbs and protein and veggey is so easy.
(06:05):
But I traditionally just prefer a lower fat diet because
just just the way that I eat, so just trying
to get in those you know, like even just the
fattier types of meat like I we found that I
was eating salami and cheeses just to get in yes
a little bit of protein, but also the high fat content.
I was adding oil onto everything. I remember putting like
this creamy Caesar dressing plus olive oil on like I think,
(06:27):
like you know, a small handful of blood of sleeves
and that was it, and then adding some like salami
and cheese and that was my lunch. And I was
like this is revolting, but trying to hit that just
in order to stay in ketosis. I found it so
hard to hit those fat components daily. Yes, your appetite, well,
my appetite was significantly reduced, but just the negative side
effects of things. I found it quite interesting that I
didn't sort of experience that sort of bloat that you
(06:48):
do when you are eating sort of carbohydrates throughout day
and regular you know, normal eating patents throughout the day.
My stomach was very flat and very lean, you know,
it was quite veiny because you know, you drop out
all the carbo hydrates, you drop a lot of that
water weight. So I think my body weight on the
scale went down, but my fat percentage probably not so
much because I was only really doing it for four
weeks and I didn't really put myself into a deficit.
(07:10):
It wasn't so much for weight loss. I just wanted
to experience what a true ketogenetic diet was like if
I did have a client who actually needed it, for example,
somebody who had severe epilepsy and had VOWD medication, you know, intervention.
We do know there was some really great research for
a true ketogenetic diet and epilepsy. But yeah, I just
think my biggest thing or hang up with it is
(07:30):
with the gut health side of things. We know that
the best thing that we can do for our community
in one of our you know, our mental health, is
to improve our gut health. Our gut health thrives on
fiber and whole grains, and you were absolutely not going
to get in there required amounts of fiber on a
kidogetic diet. If you're eating big leafy salads, you are
not in true kytosis because even your veggies and salads
(07:51):
have carbohydrates in them, and I think that's what people
don't understand. You will have to weigh you'll lettuce and
your greens to achieve true kytosa sour. As you mentioned,
most people are just following a largely lower carbohydrate diet,
which if they're getting good resolves from a weight loss perspective,
then that's fine. I don't have any problems with it,
but I think that the media and what people portray
on social media, they just don't have that true understanding
(08:13):
of what a ketogenic diet is and there is no
real definition. If you look through a lot of the research,
you know ketogenic diet has been called, you know, carbohydrates
under fifty grams a day, which we know is not
true kytosis. You know, it's been called anything lower than
I've seen people say, oh, Kido's less than one hundred
grams of carbohydrates a day. It absolutely is not in
my experience, and correct me if I'm wrong, Susie. It's
under twenty grams of net carbohydrates a day, which is
(08:35):
exceptionally low. It'd be you know, a couple of salad
leaves and that's pretty much it for your entire day.
You won't be able to have yoga, you know. I've
heard of people saying you can have lots of berries
on a kidodet. No, you absolutely cannot. So I think
that the misconceptions around what a true ketogenic diet are
is the first issue. My biggest negative of it is
the god health, and the other negative is that it's
(08:56):
just not sustainable. So I think a lot of people
think I'm just going to do kid to lose the
weight and get it off, and then I'll go back
to my normal eating after that. But what happens is
obviously they regain all of the weight that they lost.
So I just think that if we're going to do
something from the very beginning, it needs to be sustainable,
and for me, it's just it's not a sustainable way
of living. When you think about it from a weight
loss perspective, the weight's just going to come back on again.
(09:17):
I don't know a lot of people have achieved, you know,
success with it. There are you know, absolute fanatics about it.
This is the only thing that work for me, so
that you know, that's great of it actually worked for you.
But I think the biggest gripe is that it just
doesn't work with so many people because it's not sustainable.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
And I always when people come in and they say
they're on keto or they're in keytosis, you can tell
straight away because you spell a bit funny, and the
best way I can describe it, it's kind of it
sounds awful, but it's fruity, but you're all suspective. It's
like a urine smell. It's definite odor. So if clients
come in, I can tell straight away if they're in keytosis,
and I guarantee most people aren't because you would know
(09:51):
your mouth feels and taste quite strange, and that always
tells me that people aren't in keytosis, they're just in
quite low carbohydrate because you're talking about the foods we're
working off, and indeed, dietitians in the hospital spend hours
formulating these diets. They're quite complicated. So you've really, like
you describe leanne have only got their oil to play with,
cheese cream, very fatty meat out of avocado nuts. You
(10:14):
know that the number of foods is really quite limited.
And so my issue, again is very similar to what
you discussed, is that even if they are compliant and
do it for a period of time, what happens is
as soon as they reintroduce carbohydrate. I find, particularly with
my women, they've lost some metabolic efficiency in terms of
burning glucose effectively, and so they're more likely to regain
(10:35):
weight quickly, and each and every time then they go
to lose weight again, it becomes more and more difficult
as that cell wall perhaps becomes not as receptive to
certain hormone levels, and you'd argue perhaps some of that
saturated fat in some people almost clogs the cell up,
so it's not as efficient with some of those hormones,
which makes weight control more difficult long term. And of
(10:56):
course the other real issue I see is calcium intakes
incredibly low. So if people are swapping to say an
unsweetened dilmond milk, which is very low calories and low
carbohydrates so can be part of a keto program and
it hasn't had been formulated with calcium, it's a big
issue because calcium intake, as you described, as notoriously low
(11:16):
as his fiber intake, so nutritionally, there's also some challenges
with it. So I think we just wanted to touch
on it because it's such a pertinent area of interest.
In indeed, if we pop it in any kind of
meteor articles, it gets a lot of clicks. But if
you believe you're on a keto diet, until I saw
your macronutrients in my Fitness power and sore that it
was seventy percent fat in the diet and less than
(11:37):
ten percent carbohydrate, I would argue, there's no way you're
probably sitting at twenty even thirty forty percent carbohydrate. Your
fat might be forty fifty percent, but it won't be
getting the benefits associated with ketogenesis, which is of course
burning keytnes and burning fat mass more efficiently and quickly,
and if you don't taste funny in your mouth, I'd
say you're definitely not in keto. So you know, when
(11:58):
we see those snack bars, and we've spoken about that
several weeks to go about health, Halo's keto bars will
generally not be conducive to a kutogenic diet. They're generally
too high in protein. They're not high enough in fact,
So even being labeled as such is highly misleading. So
just be really mindful that it is a very specific
prescription to be in keto. Most people will find it
very difficult to achieve it. And even if they do,
(12:20):
to have that sustainable diet for any period of time,
I would argue, there's more, far more negatives than positives,
and I can definitely get better weight loss results with
most of my clients that are much more sustainable with
many other diets than I would ever actively prescribe a
ketogenic diet for the people that I'm seeing in my practice.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I'm just going to make two more points here, Susie.
I think the biggest one is that if you're somebody
who is a constant yoyo data, if you find that
you are not able to stick to things for I
don't know. I'd say at least three to six months.
Don't even start with kido because if you're going to
quote unquote cheat your diet or you're going to have
a big blowout on the weekend, that three to five
days it took you to get into actual kytosis is
(12:59):
going to be completely undone. You're gonna waste an entire
week of work because you're gonna blow out on the weekend,
have your carbs knock you out of katosis, it's going
to take you another three to five days to get
back into katosis.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
So you're just.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Undoing your hard work every time you slip up or
cheat your diet or whatever it is, every week or two.
So don't even bother from that perspective. And again, fat
burning is very different to using fat as a fuel source,
So the ketogenic diet works because it uses fat as
a fuel source. Again, if you're not in a calorie diet,
you will not burn fat on a kidogenic diet, but
(13:31):
you can burn fat in a calorie deficit. You do
not need to do a ketogenic diet to burn fat.
Putting yourself into a calorie deficit will burn fat. So
that's as much as I need to say on that.
And I think there's a lot of just misconceptions around
people thinking in order to burn fat, I have to
be in kido. No keto uses fat as fuel. So
you're burning fat as fuel, but you're not necessarily in
(13:53):
a fat burning state because you're not in a calorie deficit.
Well you may be if you're in a kutogenic diet,
but you can also achieve fat burning through another type
of diet or just reduction in calories in general, doesn't
necessarily need to be a kido diet. And I think
again that's a big just area of people just don't
understand that, particularly when it comes to social media. So
fat burning is very different to using fatness fuel. I
(14:14):
want you guys to understand that.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
And I had one of the mums at the park
up the road. I hadn't seen her for a while.
Of course we've been in lockdown in Sydney for several weeks,
and I was like, hey, are you going? She goes good.
I found this new Keto wine and I was like,
all right, yeah. She said like tastes so good. I'm
not drinking much of it. And I was just thinking
to myself like that is where marketing just has plays
(14:39):
goes crazy with these kind of products. There's no way
there's a keto wine. It's just not feasibly even possible. Nor,
as we said, most of those snacks, which are brownies
or pastries, there's no way they're keto friendly or diet
friendly in general. So I thought, just be really careful
because ketogenic diets are a very specific prescription. And I've
(15:00):
always said leanne if it sounds too good to be true,
it usually is. And that's definitely the case in both
keto wine and keto cakes.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
And if it's a keto brownie, it's still a brownie.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
All right. I think we said enough now about keto,
so we'll look forward to your DMS. I'm sure it'll
it'll raise some interesting from.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
The kido community, but we've set our piece now, Susie.
There is absolutely a time and a place for a
genuine ketogenic diet from specific medical condition. But I think
for the large majority of people, yeah, cubs are great.
There's so many benefits to them. They taste delicious. Let's
just eat our carbs in the proper amounts for our bodies.
I think the right one and the right ones of course,
and the right.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Ones of course. Yes.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
So that brings us onto our client discussion of the week,
and Zusie, you had a great case study about motivation.
So it's something that we're hearing, you know. Just we're
still in winter at the moment. You know, a lot
of us around the country are in lockdown where some
of the gyms are clothes. We're out of our regular routine.
How do we get motivated? So I'll probably say one
of my first tips which I always say to my clients,
(15:59):
and I kind of don't understand it at first, but
once they implement it, they're like, oh my goodness, I
get it. And I get asked a lot about motivation
as well. And my thing around motivation has always been
action first, and motivation comes too many of us wait
around for this, like magical motivation that's like a bloody unicorn.
It never comes. And it's like, sure, you might find
some motivation initially, but give it a week or two,
(16:21):
and generally by the third or fourth week, that motivation's gone.
Whether you're trying to achieve a healthy lifestyle, you start
you reduced cleanse like whatever it is, Generally things last
you know, for some people three four days, for others
three four weeks and the motivation goes again. So you
need to have something that's deeper than just motivation. So
I say to clients, you need to have a why,
a deeper purpose. Why are you doing this not just
(16:43):
to lose weight, not just to fit into that dress
for the wedding, because that wine needs to be deeper,
because you want to be a great example for your children,
because your health matters more than what the number on
the scale say. So, first off, you need to have
a deeper reason for wanting to do something. It can't
just be about motivation and beca because you want it.
That has to be a deeper purpose. But secondly, you
(17:03):
start with the action, and action creates momentum, which creates motivation.
So don't look for the motivation. If you take action,
if you take the first step, then that will create momentum,
and that momentum creates motivation. So a lot of people
wait for the motivation, but what they should be doing
is just taking action, getting off your butt, taking the
first step, and then that creates momentum. So for example,
(17:25):
you're like, oh, I don't want to cook a healthy dinner,
you're not going to find the motivation to do it.
If you're sitting on the couch watching Netflix and scrolling
through Uber. It's that motivation is not going to come
to you. But if you took the first steps. If
you went and you just pulled out the veggies and
I don't know, some tofuls some meat from the fridge,
and you put it on the bench, that's the first step.
Even if you went back and you sat on the couch,
you're like, well, now the veggies are out on the bench,
(17:46):
I may as well go cut them up, right, Suzie.
See you go and you cut up your veggies, and
then you're like, already cut them up. You may as
well put them into the fry pan. You put him
in the fry pan. They're cooking away, and you're like, well,
I may as well add my tofu or my chicken,
add some sauce, and dinners done.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
You took the.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
First step, which was absolutely the hardest step, and from
there it got easier. That then created momentum. You've done
one step, you're like, well I may as well do another.
I may as well do another, And then that created
the motivation and you're like, oh, now, I've made this delicious,
healthy dinner. I'm so proud of myself. Now I'm going
to go out for a walk after dinner. The action
creates the momentum, creates the motivation. That's my secret formula, SUSI,
(18:20):
what have you got for us?
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Well, the only thing I can add to that anecdote
is that I don't know if anyone's going to feel
overly excited if Tofu's on their bench, But that's just me.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I love TOFO.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
We're very open to Tofu advertisers. No, it's just a kidding.
I couldn't have said it better myself. And in my example,
what happened was I woke up to a text message
I'm not really feeling very motivated any tips, and my
answers said, perhaps not as eloquently as yours, but it
was Motivation doesn't just come. You've got to do something,
so one hundred percent. But what I would add to
(18:53):
that perspective is that there's a certain level, and we
call it in psychology acceptance and commitment therapy. And I
really see a lot of similarities between what we do
when we're working with people on lifestyle change and moving
forward psychologically because Inevitably we think of motivation as a
cognitive concept, a just feeling like we've got all this
energy to do the things that we want to do.
(19:15):
And indeed, if you're carrying extra weight and not feeling
particularly great and your body, your energy can be on
the low side, which perhaps is where we associate it
with motivation as such. But I think when I'm working
with clients' long term, indeed, very much the way you do,
I really am focused on action steps. When I'm not
feeling great, I do something. I don't sit in front
of the couch and need a tub of ice cream
and feel sorry for myself. I know I'm going to
(19:36):
feel better after a walk if I go to the
shop and do some healthy cooking. I know that, again,
like you described, action will facilitate motivation. But the other
thing that I work on clients with long term is
developing a level of acceptance around our health and fitness.
You know, we all have to accept at some point
that we're going to have to exercise most days if
our goal is to maintain our weight. We have to
(19:57):
accept that we don't get to eat whatever we want
all the time, because we're in a world where there's
huge amounts of calories. We have to work out what
we are able to manage and develop our own dietary
strategies for balance in our lives. So when we're talking
about what am I prepared to accept and commit to,
you lose a lot of the time spent in your head.
So for example, I don't think about when am I
(20:18):
going to exercise? I think I need to exercise every day,
so when am I going to do it? So once
you've accepted there are certain variables that you have to
always commit to, it becomes easier to keep in an
action phase rather than keeping in our head thinking about
why we don't want to do it, why it's going
to hurt us, what else we'd rather be doing. Nothing
is achieved from that spending that time in our mind.
(20:39):
Whereas if we accept there's a certain level of eating
well and exercise we all have to do, all of
a sudden, we lose the discussion about motivation. It just
becomes about action based doing and that's what I try
and work on longer term. And as you alluded to
Leanne talk about the higher order goals we have for ourself,
that health and fitness is extremely important to us and
as such, it filters down these are the things we
(21:00):
need to do to maintain a general baseline. So I
would have said, rather than text me and say, how
do I find motivation? Just do something, Do something now
that's going to move you towards the goal that you
have for yourself, because ultimately it's your goal, it's not mine.
I don't go away and think to myself, Oh, you know,
poor Mary is not very motivated. How can I help her?
I'm thinking, Mary, what can you do right now that's
(21:23):
going to make you feel better and move you towards
your goal? And once you focus on that again, like
you described, it's about action and momentum and for me
also acceptance and commitment.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
So Mary, get off your butt and go for a walk.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
You feel better afterwards. I all right. So now onto
our product of the week, and we have a lot
of questions that come through about bread and I think
in the past we've talked about a higher protein bread,
but land you had brought up to me like actually
wasn't aware of this product, So I'm not sure if
it's quite new about the tip top burger thins. Now,
I know there's been sandwich thins available for a while
(21:57):
and I know the sort of relatively low in calorie,
but the burger thins are a new product, relatively new
product in supermarkets that come in around shape, so perfect
for I guess, a healthier potentially form of burger per serve.
They're coming in at less than one hundred calories. The
serving size is thirty four grams, so it is really
quite thin compared to slices of bread. Three hundred and
(22:18):
fifty seven kiloges, three grams of protein, less than a
gram of fat, fifteen grams of carbohydrate, two grams of
dietary fiber, and one hundred and thirty milligrams of sodium,
which is pretty light really for sodium when we look
at bread, considering most breads, do you have some salt
at it just to give a little bit of flavor?
Twenty percent homeoflower which is giving at that fiber load.
There's some mulsifies in their vitamins, fortified, etc. But I
(22:41):
guess where this product fits for me is for people
who really enjoy a burger and don't want necessarily the
heaviness of bread rolls. I think it's definitely got a
place as a lighter alternative to bread rolls. Particularly if
you're after that healthier burger alternative. And I know when
working with bariatric surgery, those very thick slices of sandwich
(23:01):
thins work well for people who have had bariatric surgery.
But overall, I think it's a reasonably good product, particularly
if you wanted to give yourself a lighter, healthier burger.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
I really like them when I use them often for
my clients, and a lot of my clients, like myself,
love fries, love potatoes, and I say to them, you know,
you can't really, I mean, if the goal is weit
lost here, of course you can. But ideally it's going
to make it easy if you stay in a calorie deficit,
if you're not having the full burger plus a serve
of fries with it. Even if they are homemade, we're
just sort of doubling up on our carbohydrates serve. So
I do use these regularly for my clients so they
(23:32):
can have a little chippies on the site as well,
because when you think about it from a calorie perspective,
their burger fins are about eighty five calories. They're pretty
good in two grams of fiber in those little thins
is actually a great amount of fiber compared to say,
if you just got a normal hamburger bun or something
like that. Generally, most hamburger buns are around three hundred
calories susy. So it's a good way for us to
allow us to have a little bit of chippies or
(23:53):
something like that on the side, or just have a
bit of a lighter meal or I know a lot
of people are quite fearful of carbohydrates that don't want
that heaviness at nighttime, rather than wrapping your burger in
a lettus leap, which let's be honest, isn't very much
fun for anyone. These are I think a great old move.
I'm a fan of them. I really like him, and
that the ingredient list is quite low as well. There's
not too many additives or extras in there.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
They kind of remind me of the grilled, very thin carbohydrate,
low carbohydrate bun you can find and grilled.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Oh we're just to talk about that on another podcast.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I've just gay with that will come back to that.
That's quite a thing, and I would agree with you,
a burger is not a burger really in lettuce one
hundred percent and you ride about bread rolls because sometimes
even though we think there might be sour dough or
whole meal of multi grain, because of the density of them,
they pack in a lot more carbohydrate than two slices
of bread. So I have always taken the middle out
of my bread roll just because I'd prefer to have
(24:41):
more salad onto it fill it up with other protein.
But out of interest, I picked up a sour dough
roll at my local supermarket and it's lucky, it's actually
got an internal sourdough bakery, so naturally you just think, oh,
it's really really Healthyand when I saw the carbohydrate load
of the bread roll, I almost had a heart attack.
It was eighty grams of carbohydrate in this role that
(25:02):
was sour dough. So even if I took the middle
out of it, it's still clocking in at forty grams
of carbohydrate, which is equivalent of three slices of good
quality bread. So you do have to be really mindful
around bread rolls. And just because it's whole meal or
multi grade doesn't necessarily mean that it's you know, it's healthy,
but it's got a lot of fuel in it. So
that's my trick with them either take the middle out.
(25:22):
If if I'm looking at it and definitely looking for
smaller ones, don't think it's healthy. Was it sour dough
or in the case of calorie control and carbohydrate control,
these are a great option for a lighter burger. I
would agree one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I like them, and for our diabetics out there, they've
got around fifteen grams of carbohydrate per servings. It's around
one serve of carbohydrate, which I think for diabetics and
those that are insulin resistant, is actually a wonderful choice
and very.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Reasonable for a burger in terms of a balanced meal,
as you described, if you had your lean hamburger patty
and invest in a good quality, lean one one of
these hamburger thins, plus loads of salad, and like you said,
a few sweet potato chips or homemade chips, cooked it
extraver olive oil. It's an overall healthier version of your
favorite food for a lot less carbohydrate than you're going
to get from any standard bread. Roll or Turkish bread
(26:08):
is my worst like that is even worse than some
of those breads, So keep clear of those heavier loady breads.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Go from in and from a cost perspective, pretty good, Susie.
At the moment, we record this podcast a little in advance,
so I probably won't be on Salve by the time
you guys hear this. But they're on salv for two
dollars eighty at Wallas and they generally, I think, from
what I can see on the website about three dollars fifty.
So three dollars fifty and you're getting six burger thins
in there, which I think is actually very very reasonable.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
And they freeze very well too, so you don't have
to worry about buying them and throwing them out, which
I know can be an issue if you're cooking for
just one or two and you're only want to have
one burger. The great thing about them is they freeze,
so every time you perhaps once a month or what's
every couple of weeks, you can use them and get
the whole packet, so you're not wasting any Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Really enjoyed, So, Susie, our last segment is our listener question.
So this week we've been asked about organic food. So
somebody sent us a question through our social media page,
which is at the Nutrition Couch podcast. If you're not
following us, on Facebook and Instagram. Please do continue to
send your questions in. We do have a big list
of them, but we have goals to do a lot
of podcasts, Susie, so I'm sure we'll get through every
(27:10):
single one of them. So hangtart if we haven't talked
about your question so far, I promise we will get there.
But today one of our listeners has asked about organic produce,
is it worth it and should we be spending the
extra money on buying? She didn't specify, but I think
we really focus on organic fruit and veggies today, Susie.
But I think things like organic potato chips and organic
chocolate are probably a whole other different ballgame, because I
(27:30):
honestly think the quality of your diet matters far more
than if it's organic. If you're eating a bag of
organic corn chips versus a bag of normal corn chips,
they're still corn chips. It's like a Kido brownie is
still a brownie. At the end of the day, that
product probably isn't going to be that good for you
because it's ultra process, which we know is not great
for our health. So I think save your money from
a process food or an ultra process food perspective, and really,
(27:51):
if you're going to spend the extra money on organic,
do it with some of your fruits and veggies. What
are your thoughts around the SUSI.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Well, I will be completely honest. Do I buy fruit
and vegetables?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
No?
Speaker 1 (28:01):
I don't spend that money. And the reason is that
I try and get where I can to the fresh
food markets. I find that it's a lot cheaper, you
have an option to choose really good quality and you're
not being controlled by the supermarkets, and there I save
a significant amount of money and that's important to me.
I think the key thing is when we look at
the nutritional research on the quality of organic produce, the
(28:24):
standout feature is that if you're consuming the product with skin,
that's where nutritionally you do consume fewer pesticides and additives
on the produce, So things like strawberries and apples, that's
actually proven that they have less of those additives when
you buy organic. But it's not my standard recommendation unless
people want to. It's just not so readily available. I
(28:46):
find in mainstream supermarkets generally the produce is sat there longer,
so you're not guaranteed the freshness and I think that
if you're worried about nutritional composition, you're much better to
source out the freshest produce you can by going to
low call growers' markets. That's going to maximize your nutrition
as opposed to produce that perhaps has been stored for
long periods of time. But if you did want to,
(29:08):
I would tend to spend more so on produce that
you eat the skin, so things like your berries, your apples,
potentially carrots. That's where the evidence is around the benefits
of it, but I don't suggest people do it, nor
do I spend I think the other research and again
we can talk about this another time. Milk, there is
some evidence to show the nutritional quality of organic milk
(29:28):
is slightly higher, but it's slightly you know, it's not
considerably higher. And as such, it's more for me a
personal choice of the way that you want to eat,
as opposed to directly impacting your nutrition intake overall. Of course,
when you're buying organic, there's a number of benefits for
the environment and in farming practices, and that's not specifically
what we're talking about. If we're looking at the pure
(29:49):
nutritional angle, it really comes down to those products, you're
going to get the benefit. So for example, with a banana,
where you're taking the skin off, it's not going to
really affect the quality of the banana if you buy organic,
and that might be better for the environment. So that's
sort of my position on it. It's not something I
encourage or do. And what I would say is where
you can support local growers and local markets, you're going
to get better quality produce and fresher produce, which is
(30:12):
best for nutritd and take anyway.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
If you can afford it and you're happy to do it,
then I think that there's absolutely no harm. I do
think that, as you mentioned, for some of our fruits
and veggies, it is absolutely going to be better because
there is something that's called the Dirty Doesn't. And I'm
not sure if our listeners have heard of this before,
but there's a group called the ewg's the Environment to
Work In Groups. So they're a non for profit organization
that every year they release what's called like a shopper's
(30:34):
Guide to pesticize in products. So if you guys, just
google the Dirty does and it'll pop up, and essentially
it's a list of the twelve products that if you
had the money and you're able to, we should try
to be buying organic in and as you mentioned, there
are things that don't come in their skins, like bananas.
They're things like our strawberries that we do eat the skin,
and so if there's any pesticide on them. What this
Environmental Working Group does is it buys a lot of
(30:56):
the produce, It takes it home, washes it properly, just
like you and I would do, and then it tests
the amount of pesticides in them and it ranks their
foods from highest to lowest. So if you did have
the budget for it, and you are happy to do so,
the top sort of six on their list that you,
you know, might want to consider purchasing organic strawberries, spinach,
kale and other collards, nectarines, apples, and grapes. They're the
(31:20):
six what they call quote unquote dirtiest doesn't and then
lists going down from there. Number seven is cherries, eight
is peaches, niners, pears, ten as bell purpose, which I
think might surprise some people. Eleven is celery, and twelve
is tomatoes. So you can just still quit Google and
google the dirty does. And that list does sort of
tend to change a little bit each year, but I
always find that things like strawberries and spinach are higher
(31:41):
on the list. So if I do have a little bit,
you know, leftover in the bank each week, and I
am I'm not at the farmer's markets or I'm in
the supermarket, you know, things like spinach and strawberries. For me,
I do like to sort of purchase organic, so but
I do understand that from a budget perspective, it can
be hard on many people. So I think that the
quality of your diet matters far more than if your
produce is organic or not. But if you are looking
(32:02):
to just spend a little bit of extra money on
a few organic produce items, you might want to think
about things like strawberries, grapes, greens and kale and spinach.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Which is some of the most nutrient dense foods anyway.
But the other little thing people might like to think about,
especially since many of us are in lockdown and spending
a lot more time at home. There's an amazing product
called a veggie pod, and it's a little garden bed
that you can have on balconies or in the home.
And then I know quite a few clients who have
invested in that because they haven't got big backyards and
they've got a bit more time and they have a
little garden there where they might grow their own leafy greens,
(32:32):
and that's a great way to optimize your nutrient intake,
increase your veggie consumption, and control the quality of your
fresh produce. So have a look at those veggie pods.
They've got great at home growing solutions for people living
in cities, and I know quite a few people who
have started to grow some of their own produce at home,
and then you're getting the best of both worlds. You're
saving money and also consuming the highest quality fresh fruit
(32:54):
and vegies you can and you can completely control what
goes into them. So have a look at those. We'll
pop that up on our insteat site as well.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Yeah, and there are a lot of community gardens around
the place as well. Just to look at Google and
see if your neighborhood has a community guarden. I remember
I used to work out in the country and they
had this beautiful community garden that you know, not really
many people knew about. So just to look at Google
and see if you're your area that you live and
has a community garden or sometimes on you know things
like Facebook Marketplace, people put up fresh herbs that they've
grown in their own garden and that sort of thing,
(33:22):
and they have so many of them that they're happy
to give them away. So all of those are really
great options as well. So you don't need to spend
the money getting organic, but you are getting some better
quality produce that someone's growing themselves in their backyard or
you have yourself as well, which I think is always
going to be beneficial.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
One hundred percent. All right, Well, that brings us to
the end of the Nutrition Couch for another week. If
you haven't already, don't forget to subscribe to have us
delivered to your inbooks every Sunday morning. And we love
it when you leave us a review. It really helps
us in the Apple charts, and you can do that
from your purple Apple podcast app. We've got our Instagram
and Facebook sites up and running. For any feedback or
(33:57):
questions at the Nutrition Couch Podcast. We will see you
same time, same place, next Sunday. Have a fantastic week,
Catch you guys next week.
Hi, I'm Susie Burrow and I'm Leanne Wood and welcome
to the Nutrition Couch, a weekly podcast from two of us.
Stay is leading dieticians, bringing you everything that is new
in the world of nutrition, diets and good food from
the Nutrition Couch. Today, we're chatting all things kito. We're
asked about it all the time, so what do we
really think of kito as an effective diet? And you
(00:23):
will hear us as honest as we get. In our
client case study, we chat all about motivation and why
our clients are finding things so tough at the moment
and what our tips are to help you find your
own motivation. Our product review this week is on a
lighter alternative to bread, and our listener question we discuss
all things vegetables and is it worth paying extra for
organic fruit and veggies. But to kick us off this week, Leanne,
(00:47):
what's happening up in Brisbane?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Well, SUSI, we're in the midst of our lockdown again,
but we don't want to spend another podcast talking about
this silly lockdown, so let's keep it positive. I think
we're closer to Christmas than we are otherwise we're that
hump were you know, well into August now, so a
lot of us would be you know, plannings and beautiful
summer holidays are over in Europe, but that's not going
to happen this year, so I think, you know, something
to look forward to Christmas. Hopefully we'll be able to
(01:11):
catch up with families, you know, a lot of a
little bit of time off from work and the kids
are done with school, that sort of thing in a
couple of months time, so winding down for the rest
of the year. I think it's good to sort of
set some new goals towards the end of the year
and get you know, get us motivated. Which is a
good topic of the podcast today.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Is it. It's always an exciting time for dietitians leading
into spring and good weather, and I am really tossing
up with her to book my holiday to Hamilton Island,
which I just adore. So it's a bit watch and wait,
but it is a really pertinent time to get diets started.
I guess people are interested in weight loss, So when
we discussed our prep for this podcast, I really thought
(01:49):
it was time we mentioned the diet elephant in the room,
which is keto. We've been avoiding because as dietitians, keto
in itself is quite polarizing, and I know it's dietitians
we have quite set feelings around keto, but it can
be an effective diet in the sense that generally clinical
(02:09):
dietitians were trained in ketogenic diets because of course they
are actual clinical treatment for some neurological conditions, so it's
not like we're not across them, and I definitely have
thoughts on them. So I thought it warranted a good
chat because we definitely get asked a lot of questions.
So I'll kick off with my thoughts on it, and
then I'd love to hear yours because we have trained
several years between our training, so it's always interesting to
(02:31):
hear different clinicians' perspectives. So the first thing I want
to say is that keto or ketogenic diets, in which
it is a high fat, extremely low carbohydrate diet less
than about ten percent of energy coming from carbohydrates, is
a very effective diet. But my issue with it is
that it's really hard to do. It's actually really challenging
(02:52):
to achieve those macro nutrients. Most people can't do it
for any extended period of time, and if they manage it,
they often rebound and go back to old habits very
very quickly. And my argument with most people is they're
actually not doing it. So people think that they're doing
keto because they cut out their carbohydrates and they swap
to say eggs and smoked salmon for breakfast and salads
(03:13):
for lunch, and then creamy, high fat foods for dinner.
But if you took a close look at their macro nutrients,
very rarely do I find they've got about seventy percent
fat required to induce ketosis, along with the calorie deficiencies
logo reduction in calories, and also less than ten percent carbohydrate.
And my observation is most people are just doing a
low carb diet, so they put in plenty of eggs,
(03:34):
they put in protein powder, and the reality nutritionally is
that that's not a keto diet. Just because you have
more fat and have cut out the carbohydrates doesn't automatically
put you into keto. It's actually really hard to achieve ketosis.
It takes two or three days at least a very
strict dieting. The only way I ever use it with
my clients as part of a VLCD, a total mirror replacement,
(03:56):
which is formulated to be a less than eight hundred
calorie and inducee qutos is based on calorie restriction and
formulated foods. But for me, I have very very few
clients who are actually doing it. And I saw online
a nutritionist had put that her clients were doing keto
with MIRR replacements, and she put for breakfast two eggs
and two asparagus spears. And I guarantee you those clients
(04:17):
are not in keto because it's actually not very high
in protein, which means you can't overcompensate with extra meats, salmon, eggs.
It just doesn't achieve those macro nutrients. So it will
work if you can do it, but in my experience,
people aren't doing it. They can't do it, and it's
definitely not a sustainable way to lose body fat. And
I definitely find with my women if there's a degree
of insulin resistance present, it doesn't work as effectively at
(04:39):
shifting that two three kilos a week as it would
if you didn't have insulin resistance. And because a lot
of my clients do have insulin resistance, I definitely don't
opt for a keto diet because I know I can
get pretty good results on a reduced calorie diet via
fasting other ways of eating which are much more palatable
long term than a ketogenic diet. So that's mine initial
(05:00):
thoughts on it. What do you think?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
And I think the biggest I guess misconception is that,
as you mentioned, people cut out the carbs, increase the fat,
but they also boost the protein up because they're like,
you know, protein's great, we know it's important for our
muscle mass. But too much protein then the body would
turn it likes to use carbohydrate first. Is it's fuel sauce.
It's the easiest fuel source to use. You know, we're
able to use it really effectively. When we don't have
enough carbohydrates, the body will then turn to proteins. We
(05:23):
very overcompensating with protein. The body's going to use the
protein as a fuel source and thus we're not in kotosis.
So I actually when the kido diet became really popular,
I would say maybe six seven years ago, now quite
a long time ago. I was in my maybe early twenties,
I did a full ketogenic diet. I was peeing on
the keytone sticks. I had, you know, like really fruity
smelling urine, like I was in full katosis. And I
(05:45):
did that for I would say at least a good
four to six weeks. And the benefit for me was
the app the huge reduction and appetite, but the negatives,
Oh my god, I was putting butter in my coffee, sosh.
I could not get my fat intake high enough. I'm
just not somebody that with he likes fat or eats
a large amount of fat in my diet. For me
to eat carbs and protein and veggey is so easy.
(06:05):
But I traditionally just prefer a lower fat diet because
just just the way that I eat, so just trying
to get in those you know, like even just the
fattier types of meat like I we found that I
was eating salami and cheeses just to get in yes
a little bit of protein, but also the high fat content.
I was adding oil onto everything. I remember putting like
this creamy Caesar dressing plus olive oil on like I think,
(06:27):
like you know, a small handful of blood of sleeves
and that was it, and then adding some like salami
and cheese and that was my lunch. And I was
like this is revolting, but trying to hit that just
in order to stay in ketosis. I found it so
hard to hit those fat components daily. Yes, your appetite, well,
my appetite was significantly reduced, but just the negative side
effects of things. I found it quite interesting that I
didn't sort of experience that sort of bloat that you
(06:48):
do when you are eating sort of carbohydrates throughout day
and regular you know, normal eating patents throughout the day.
My stomach was very flat and very lean, you know,
it was quite veiny because you know, you drop out
all the carbo hydrates, you drop a lot of that
water weight. So I think my body weight on the
scale went down, but my fat percentage probably not so
much because I was only really doing it for four
weeks and I didn't really put myself into a deficit.
(07:10):
It wasn't so much for weight loss. I just wanted
to experience what a true ketogenetic diet was like if
I did have a client who actually needed it, for example,
somebody who had severe epilepsy and had VOWD medication, you know, intervention.
We do know there was some really great research for
a true ketogenetic diet and epilepsy. But yeah, I just
think my biggest thing or hang up with it is
(07:30):
with the gut health side of things. We know that
the best thing that we can do for our community
in one of our you know, our mental health, is
to improve our gut health. Our gut health thrives on
fiber and whole grains, and you were absolutely not going
to get in there required amounts of fiber on a
kidogetic diet. If you're eating big leafy salads, you are
not in true kytosis because even your veggies and salads
(07:51):
have carbohydrates in them, and I think that's what people
don't understand. You will have to weigh you'll lettuce and
your greens to achieve true kytosa sour. As you mentioned,
most people are just following a largely lower carbohydrate diet,
which if they're getting good resolves from a weight loss perspective,
then that's fine. I don't have any problems with it,
but I think that the media and what people portray
on social media, they just don't have that true understanding
(08:13):
of what a ketogenic diet is and there is no
real definition. If you look through a lot of the research,
you know ketogenic diet has been called, you know, carbohydrates
under fifty grams a day, which we know is not
true kytosis. You know, it's been called anything lower than
I've seen people say, oh, Kido's less than one hundred
grams of carbohydrates a day. It absolutely is not in
my experience, and correct me if I'm wrong, Susie. It's
under twenty grams of net carbohydrates a day, which is
(08:35):
exceptionally low. It'd be you know, a couple of salad
leaves and that's pretty much it for your entire day.
You won't be able to have yoga, you know. I've
heard of people saying you can have lots of berries
on a kidodet. No, you absolutely cannot. So I think
that the misconceptions around what a true ketogenic diet are
is the first issue. My biggest negative of it is
the god health, and the other negative is that it's
(08:56):
just not sustainable. So I think a lot of people
think I'm just going to do kid to lose the
weight and get it off, and then I'll go back
to my normal eating after that. But what happens is
obviously they regain all of the weight that they lost.
So I just think that if we're going to do
something from the very beginning, it needs to be sustainable,
and for me, it's just it's not a sustainable way
of living. When you think about it from a weight
loss perspective, the weight's just going to come back on again.
(09:17):
I don't know a lot of people have achieved, you know,
success with it. There are you know, absolute fanatics about it.
This is the only thing that work for me, so
that you know, that's great of it actually worked for you.
But I think the biggest gripe is that it just
doesn't work with so many people because it's not sustainable.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
And I always when people come in and they say
they're on keto or they're in keytosis, you can tell
straight away because you spell a bit funny, and the
best way I can describe it, it's kind of it
sounds awful, but it's fruity, but you're all suspective. It's
like a urine smell. It's definite odor. So if clients
come in, I can tell straight away if they're in keytosis,
and I guarantee most people aren't because you would know
(09:51):
your mouth feels and taste quite strange, and that always
tells me that people aren't in keytosis, they're just in
quite low carbohydrate because you're talking about the foods we're
working off, and indeed, dietitians in the hospital spend hours
formulating these diets. They're quite complicated. So you've really, like
you describe leanne have only got their oil to play with,
cheese cream, very fatty meat out of avocado nuts. You
(10:14):
know that the number of foods is really quite limited.
And so my issue, again is very similar to what
you discussed, is that even if they are compliant and
do it for a period of time, what happens is
as soon as they reintroduce carbohydrate. I find, particularly with
my women, they've lost some metabolic efficiency in terms of
burning glucose effectively, and so they're more likely to regain
(10:35):
weight quickly, and each and every time then they go
to lose weight again, it becomes more and more difficult
as that cell wall perhaps becomes not as receptive to
certain hormone levels, and you'd argue perhaps some of that
saturated fat in some people almost clogs the cell up,
so it's not as efficient with some of those hormones,
which makes weight control more difficult long term. And of
(10:56):
course the other real issue I see is calcium intakes
incredibly low. So if people are swapping to say an
unsweetened dilmond milk, which is very low calories and low
carbohydrates so can be part of a keto program and
it hasn't had been formulated with calcium, it's a big
issue because calcium intake, as you described, as notoriously low
(11:16):
as his fiber intake, so nutritionally, there's also some challenges
with it. So I think we just wanted to touch
on it because it's such a pertinent area of interest.
In indeed, if we pop it in any kind of
meteor articles, it gets a lot of clicks. But if
you believe you're on a keto diet, until I saw
your macronutrients in my Fitness power and sore that it
was seventy percent fat in the diet and less than
(11:37):
ten percent carbohydrate, I would argue, there's no way you're
probably sitting at twenty even thirty forty percent carbohydrate. Your
fat might be forty fifty percent, but it won't be
getting the benefits associated with ketogenesis, which is of course
burning keytnes and burning fat mass more efficiently and quickly,
and if you don't taste funny in your mouth, I'd
say you're definitely not in keto. So you know, when
(11:58):
we see those snack bars, and we've spoken about that
several weeks to go about health, Halo's keto bars will
generally not be conducive to a kutogenic diet. They're generally
too high in protein. They're not high enough in fact,
So even being labeled as such is highly misleading. So
just be really mindful that it is a very specific
prescription to be in keto. Most people will find it
very difficult to achieve it. And even if they do,
(12:20):
to have that sustainable diet for any period of time,
I would argue, there's more, far more negatives than positives,
and I can definitely get better weight loss results with
most of my clients that are much more sustainable with
many other diets than I would ever actively prescribe a
ketogenic diet for the people that I'm seeing in my practice.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
I'm just going to make two more points here, Susie.
I think the biggest one is that if you're somebody
who is a constant yoyo data, if you find that
you are not able to stick to things for I
don't know. I'd say at least three to six months.
Don't even start with kido because if you're going to
quote unquote cheat your diet or you're going to have
a big blowout on the weekend, that three to five
days it took you to get into actual kytosis is
(12:59):
going to be completely undone. You're gonna waste an entire
week of work because you're gonna blow out on the weekend,
have your carbs knock you out of katosis, it's going
to take you another three to five days to get
back into katosis.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
So you're just.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Undoing your hard work every time you slip up or
cheat your diet or whatever it is, every week or two.
So don't even bother from that perspective. And again, fat
burning is very different to using fat as a fuel source,
So the ketogenic diet works because it uses fat as
a fuel source. Again, if you're not in a calorie diet,
you will not burn fat on a kidogenic diet, but
(13:31):
you can burn fat in a calorie deficit. You do
not need to do a ketogenic diet to burn fat.
Putting yourself into a calorie deficit will burn fat. So
that's as much as I need to say on that.
And I think there's a lot of just misconceptions around
people thinking in order to burn fat, I have to
be in kido. No keto uses fat as fuel. So
you're burning fat as fuel, but you're not necessarily in
(13:53):
a fat burning state because you're not in a calorie deficit.
Well you may be if you're in a kutogenic diet,
but you can also achieve fat burning through another type
of diet or just reduction in calories in general, doesn't
necessarily need to be a kido diet. And I think
again that's a big just area of people just don't
understand that, particularly when it comes to social media. So
fat burning is very different to using fatness fuel. I
(14:14):
want you guys to understand that.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
And I had one of the mums at the park
up the road. I hadn't seen her for a while.
Of course we've been in lockdown in Sydney for several weeks,
and I was like, hey, are you going? She goes good.
I found this new Keto wine and I was like,
all right, yeah. She said like tastes so good. I'm
not drinking much of it. And I was just thinking
to myself like that is where marketing just has plays
(14:39):
goes crazy with these kind of products. There's no way
there's a keto wine. It's just not feasibly even possible. Nor,
as we said, most of those snacks, which are brownies
or pastries, there's no way they're keto friendly or diet
friendly in general. So I thought, just be really careful
because ketogenic diets are a very specific prescription. And I've
(15:00):
always said leanne if it sounds too good to be true,
it usually is. And that's definitely the case in both
keto wine and keto cakes.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
And if it's a keto brownie, it's still a brownie.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
All right. I think we said enough now about keto,
so we'll look forward to your DMS. I'm sure it'll
it'll raise some interesting from.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
The kido community, but we've set our piece now, Susie.
There is absolutely a time and a place for a
genuine ketogenic diet from specific medical condition. But I think
for the large majority of people, yeah, cubs are great.
There's so many benefits to them. They taste delicious. Let's
just eat our carbs in the proper amounts for our bodies.
I think the right one and the right ones of course,
and the right.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Ones of course. Yes.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
So that brings us onto our client discussion of the week,
and Zusie, you had a great case study about motivation.
So it's something that we're hearing, you know. Just we're
still in winter at the moment. You know, a lot
of us around the country are in lockdown where some
of the gyms are clothes. We're out of our regular routine.
How do we get motivated? So I'll probably say one
of my first tips which I always say to my clients,
(15:59):
and I kind of don't understand it at first, but
once they implement it, they're like, oh my goodness, I
get it. And I get asked a lot about motivation
as well. And my thing around motivation has always been
action first, and motivation comes too many of us wait
around for this, like magical motivation that's like a bloody unicorn.
It never comes. And it's like, sure, you might find
some motivation initially, but give it a week or two,
(16:21):
and generally by the third or fourth week, that motivation's gone.
Whether you're trying to achieve a healthy lifestyle, you start
you reduced cleanse like whatever it is, Generally things last
you know, for some people three four days, for others
three four weeks and the motivation goes again. So you
need to have something that's deeper than just motivation. So
I say to clients, you need to have a why,
a deeper purpose. Why are you doing this not just
(16:43):
to lose weight, not just to fit into that dress
for the wedding, because that wine needs to be deeper,
because you want to be a great example for your children,
because your health matters more than what the number on
the scale say. So, first off, you need to have
a deeper reason for wanting to do something. It can't
just be about motivation and beca because you want it.
That has to be a deeper purpose. But secondly, you
(17:03):
start with the action, and action creates momentum, which creates motivation.
So don't look for the motivation. If you take action,
if you take the first step, then that will create momentum,
and that momentum creates motivation. So a lot of people
wait for the motivation, but what they should be doing
is just taking action, getting off your butt, taking the
first step, and then that creates momentum. So for example,
(17:25):
you're like, oh, I don't want to cook a healthy dinner,
you're not going to find the motivation to do it.
If you're sitting on the couch watching Netflix and scrolling
through Uber. It's that motivation is not going to come
to you. But if you took the first steps. If
you went and you just pulled out the veggies and
I don't know, some tofuls some meat from the fridge,
and you put it on the bench, that's the first step.
Even if you went back and you sat on the couch,
you're like, well, now the veggies are out on the bench,
(17:46):
I may as well go cut them up, right, Suzie.
See you go and you cut up your veggies, and
then you're like, already cut them up. You may as
well put them into the fry pan. You put him
in the fry pan. They're cooking away, and you're like, well,
I may as well add my tofu or my chicken,
add some sauce, and dinners done.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
You took the.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
First step, which was absolutely the hardest step, and from
there it got easier. That then created momentum. You've done
one step, you're like, well I may as well do another.
I may as well do another, And then that created
the motivation and you're like, oh, now, I've made this delicious,
healthy dinner. I'm so proud of myself. Now I'm going
to go out for a walk after dinner. The action
creates the momentum, creates the motivation. That's my secret formula, SUSI,
(18:20):
what have you got for us?
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Well, the only thing I can add to that anecdote
is that I don't know if anyone's going to feel
overly excited if Tofu's on their bench, But that's just me.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I love TOFO.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
We're very open to Tofu advertisers. No, it's just a kidding.
I couldn't have said it better myself. And in my example,
what happened was I woke up to a text message
I'm not really feeling very motivated any tips, and my
answers said, perhaps not as eloquently as yours, but it
was Motivation doesn't just come. You've got to do something,
so one hundred percent. But what I would add to
(18:53):
that perspective is that there's a certain level, and we
call it in psychology acceptance and commitment therapy. And I
really see a lot of similarities between what we do
when we're working with people on lifestyle change and moving
forward psychologically because Inevitably we think of motivation as a
cognitive concept, a just feeling like we've got all this
energy to do the things that we want to do.
(19:15):
And indeed, if you're carrying extra weight and not feeling
particularly great and your body, your energy can be on
the low side, which perhaps is where we associate it
with motivation as such. But I think when I'm working
with clients' long term, indeed, very much the way you do,
I really am focused on action steps. When I'm not
feeling great, I do something. I don't sit in front
of the couch and need a tub of ice cream
and feel sorry for myself. I know I'm going to
(19:36):
feel better after a walk if I go to the
shop and do some healthy cooking. I know that, again,
like you described, action will facilitate motivation. But the other
thing that I work on clients with long term is
developing a level of acceptance around our health and fitness.
You know, we all have to accept at some point
that we're going to have to exercise most days if
our goal is to maintain our weight. We have to
(19:57):
accept that we don't get to eat whatever we want
all the time, because we're in a world where there's
huge amounts of calories. We have to work out what
we are able to manage and develop our own dietary
strategies for balance in our lives. So when we're talking
about what am I prepared to accept and commit to,
you lose a lot of the time spent in your head.
So for example, I don't think about when am I
(20:18):
going to exercise? I think I need to exercise every day,
so when am I going to do it? So once
you've accepted there are certain variables that you have to
always commit to, it becomes easier to keep in an
action phase rather than keeping in our head thinking about
why we don't want to do it, why it's going
to hurt us, what else we'd rather be doing. Nothing
is achieved from that spending that time in our mind.
(20:39):
Whereas if we accept there's a certain level of eating
well and exercise we all have to do, all of
a sudden, we lose the discussion about motivation. It just
becomes about action based doing and that's what I try
and work on longer term. And as you alluded to
Leanne talk about the higher order goals we have for ourself,
that health and fitness is extremely important to us and
as such, it filters down these are the things we
(21:00):
need to do to maintain a general baseline. So I
would have said, rather than text me and say, how
do I find motivation? Just do something, Do something now
that's going to move you towards the goal that you
have for yourself, because ultimately it's your goal, it's not mine.
I don't go away and think to myself, Oh, you know,
poor Mary is not very motivated. How can I help her?
I'm thinking, Mary, what can you do right now that's
(21:23):
going to make you feel better and move you towards
your goal? And once you focus on that again, like
you described, it's about action and momentum and for me
also acceptance and commitment.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
So Mary, get off your butt and go for a walk.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
You feel better afterwards. I all right. So now onto
our product of the week, and we have a lot
of questions that come through about bread and I think
in the past we've talked about a higher protein bread,
but land you had brought up to me like actually
wasn't aware of this product, So I'm not sure if
it's quite new about the tip top burger thins. Now,
I know there's been sandwich thins available for a while
(21:57):
and I know the sort of relatively low in calorie,
but the burger thins are a new product, relatively new
product in supermarkets that come in around shape, so perfect
for I guess, a healthier potentially form of burger per serve.
They're coming in at less than one hundred calories. The
serving size is thirty four grams, so it is really
quite thin compared to slices of bread. Three hundred and
(22:18):
fifty seven kiloges, three grams of protein, less than a
gram of fat, fifteen grams of carbohydrate, two grams of
dietary fiber, and one hundred and thirty milligrams of sodium,
which is pretty light really for sodium when we look
at bread, considering most breads, do you have some salt
at it just to give a little bit of flavor?
Twenty percent homeoflower which is giving at that fiber load.
There's some mulsifies in their vitamins, fortified, etc. But I
(22:41):
guess where this product fits for me is for people
who really enjoy a burger and don't want necessarily the
heaviness of bread rolls. I think it's definitely got a
place as a lighter alternative to bread rolls. Particularly if
you're after that healthier burger alternative. And I know when
working with bariatric surgery, those very thick slices of sandwich
(23:01):
thins work well for people who have had bariatric surgery.
But overall, I think it's a reasonably good product, particularly
if you wanted to give yourself a lighter, healthier burger.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
I really like them when I use them often for
my clients, and a lot of my clients, like myself,
love fries, love potatoes, and I say to them, you know,
you can't really, I mean, if the goal is weit
lost here, of course you can. But ideally it's going
to make it easy if you stay in a calorie deficit,
if you're not having the full burger plus a serve
of fries with it. Even if they are homemade, we're
just sort of doubling up on our carbohydrates serve. So
I do use these regularly for my clients so they
(23:32):
can have a little chippies on the site as well,
because when you think about it from a calorie perspective,
their burger fins are about eighty five calories. They're pretty
good in two grams of fiber in those little thins
is actually a great amount of fiber compared to say,
if you just got a normal hamburger bun or something
like that. Generally, most hamburger buns are around three hundred
calories susy. So it's a good way for us to
allow us to have a little bit of chippies or
(23:53):
something like that on the side, or just have a
bit of a lighter meal or I know a lot
of people are quite fearful of carbohydrates that don't want
that heaviness at nighttime, rather than wrapping your burger in
a lettus leap, which let's be honest, isn't very much
fun for anyone. These are I think a great old move.
I'm a fan of them. I really like him, and
that the ingredient list is quite low as well. There's
not too many additives or extras in there.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
They kind of remind me of the grilled, very thin carbohydrate,
low carbohydrate bun you can find and grilled.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Oh we're just to talk about that on another podcast.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I've just gay with that will come back to that.
That's quite a thing, and I would agree with you,
a burger is not a burger really in lettuce one
hundred percent and you ride about bread rolls because sometimes
even though we think there might be sour dough or
whole meal of multi grain, because of the density of them,
they pack in a lot more carbohydrate than two slices
of bread. So I have always taken the middle out
of my bread roll just because I'd prefer to have
(24:41):
more salad onto it fill it up with other protein.
But out of interest, I picked up a sour dough
roll at my local supermarket and it's lucky, it's actually
got an internal sourdough bakery, so naturally you just think, oh,
it's really really Healthyand when I saw the carbohydrate load
of the bread roll, I almost had a heart attack.
It was eighty grams of carbohydrate in this role that
(25:02):
was sour dough. So even if I took the middle
out of it, it's still clocking in at forty grams
of carbohydrate, which is equivalent of three slices of good
quality bread. So you do have to be really mindful
around bread rolls. And just because it's whole meal or
multi grade doesn't necessarily mean that it's you know, it's healthy,
but it's got a lot of fuel in it. So
that's my trick with them either take the middle out.
(25:22):
If if I'm looking at it and definitely looking for
smaller ones, don't think it's healthy. Was it sour dough
or in the case of calorie control and carbohydrate control,
these are a great option for a lighter burger. I
would agree one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I like them, and for our diabetics out there, they've
got around fifteen grams of carbohydrate per servings. It's around
one serve of carbohydrate, which I think for diabetics and
those that are insulin resistant, is actually a wonderful choice
and very.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Reasonable for a burger in terms of a balanced meal,
as you described, if you had your lean hamburger patty
and invest in a good quality, lean one one of
these hamburger thins, plus loads of salad, and like you said,
a few sweet potato chips or homemade chips, cooked it
extraver olive oil. It's an overall healthier version of your
favorite food for a lot less carbohydrate than you're going
to get from any standard bread. Roll or Turkish bread
(26:08):
is my worst like that is even worse than some
of those breads, So keep clear of those heavier loady breads.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Go from in and from a cost perspective, pretty good, Susie.
At the moment, we record this podcast a little in advance,
so I probably won't be on Salve by the time
you guys hear this. But they're on salv for two
dollars eighty at Wallas and they generally, I think, from
what I can see on the website about three dollars fifty.
So three dollars fifty and you're getting six burger thins
in there, which I think is actually very very reasonable.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
And they freeze very well too, so you don't have
to worry about buying them and throwing them out, which
I know can be an issue if you're cooking for
just one or two and you're only want to have
one burger. The great thing about them is they freeze,
so every time you perhaps once a month or what's
every couple of weeks, you can use them and get
the whole packet, so you're not wasting any Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Really enjoyed, So, Susie, our last segment is our listener question.
So this week we've been asked about organic food. So
somebody sent us a question through our social media page,
which is at the Nutrition Couch podcast. If you're not
following us, on Facebook and Instagram. Please do continue to
send your questions in. We do have a big list
of them, but we have goals to do a lot
of podcasts, Susie, so I'm sure we'll get through every
(27:10):
single one of them. So hangtart if we haven't talked
about your question so far, I promise we will get there.
But today one of our listeners has asked about organic produce,
is it worth it and should we be spending the
extra money on buying? She didn't specify, but I think
we really focus on organic fruit and veggies today, Susie.
But I think things like organic potato chips and organic
chocolate are probably a whole other different ballgame, because I
(27:30):
honestly think the quality of your diet matters far more
than if it's organic. If you're eating a bag of
organic corn chips versus a bag of normal corn chips,
they're still corn chips. It's like a Kido brownie is
still a brownie. At the end of the day, that
product probably isn't going to be that good for you
because it's ultra process, which we know is not great
for our health. So I think save your money from
a process food or an ultra process food perspective, and really,
(27:51):
if you're going to spend the extra money on organic,
do it with some of your fruits and veggies. What
are your thoughts around the SUSI.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Well, I will be completely honest. Do I buy fruit
and vegetables?
Speaker 2 (28:01):
No?
Speaker 1 (28:01):
I don't spend that money. And the reason is that
I try and get where I can to the fresh
food markets. I find that it's a lot cheaper, you
have an option to choose really good quality and you're
not being controlled by the supermarkets, and there I save
a significant amount of money and that's important to me.
I think the key thing is when we look at
the nutritional research on the quality of organic produce, the
(28:24):
standout feature is that if you're consuming the product with skin,
that's where nutritionally you do consume fewer pesticides and additives
on the produce, So things like strawberries and apples, that's
actually proven that they have less of those additives when
you buy organic. But it's not my standard recommendation unless
people want to. It's just not so readily available. I
(28:46):
find in mainstream supermarkets generally the produce is sat there longer,
so you're not guaranteed the freshness and I think that
if you're worried about nutritional composition, you're much better to
source out the freshest produce you can by going to
low call growers' markets. That's going to maximize your nutrition
as opposed to produce that perhaps has been stored for
long periods of time. But if you did want to,
(29:08):
I would tend to spend more so on produce that
you eat the skin, so things like your berries, your apples,
potentially carrots. That's where the evidence is around the benefits
of it, but I don't suggest people do it, nor
do I spend I think the other research and again
we can talk about this another time. Milk, there is
some evidence to show the nutritional quality of organic milk
(29:28):
is slightly higher, but it's slightly you know, it's not
considerably higher. And as such, it's more for me a
personal choice of the way that you want to eat,
as opposed to directly impacting your nutrition intake overall. Of course,
when you're buying organic, there's a number of benefits for
the environment and in farming practices, and that's not specifically
what we're talking about. If we're looking at the pure
(29:49):
nutritional angle, it really comes down to those products, you're
going to get the benefit. So for example, with a banana,
where you're taking the skin off, it's not going to
really affect the quality of the banana if you buy organic,
and that might be better for the environment. So that's
sort of my position on it. It's not something I
encourage or do. And what I would say is where
you can support local growers and local markets, you're going
to get better quality produce and fresher produce, which is
(30:12):
best for nutritd and take anyway.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
If you can afford it and you're happy to do it,
then I think that there's absolutely no harm. I do
think that, as you mentioned, for some of our fruits
and veggies, it is absolutely going to be better because
there is something that's called the Dirty Doesn't. And I'm
not sure if our listeners have heard of this before,
but there's a group called the ewg's the Environment to
Work In Groups. So they're a non for profit organization
that every year they release what's called like a shopper's
(30:34):
Guide to pesticize in products. So if you guys, just
google the Dirty does and it'll pop up, and essentially
it's a list of the twelve products that if you
had the money and you're able to, we should try
to be buying organic in and as you mentioned, there
are things that don't come in their skins, like bananas.
They're things like our strawberries that we do eat the skin,
and so if there's any pesticide on them. What this
Environmental Working Group does is it buys a lot of
(30:56):
the produce, It takes it home, washes it properly, just
like you and I would do, and then it tests
the amount of pesticides in them and it ranks their
foods from highest to lowest. So if you did have
the budget for it, and you are happy to do so,
the top sort of six on their list that you,
you know, might want to consider purchasing organic strawberries, spinach,
kale and other collards, nectarines, apples, and grapes. They're the
(31:20):
six what they call quote unquote dirtiest doesn't and then
lists going down from there. Number seven is cherries, eight
is peaches, niners, pears, ten as bell purpose, which I
think might surprise some people. Eleven is celery, and twelve
is tomatoes. So you can just still quit Google and
google the dirty does. And that list does sort of
tend to change a little bit each year, but I
always find that things like strawberries and spinach are higher
(31:41):
on the list. So if I do have a little bit,
you know, leftover in the bank each week, and I
am I'm not at the farmer's markets or I'm in
the supermarket, you know, things like spinach and strawberries. For me,
I do like to sort of purchase organic, so but
I do understand that from a budget perspective, it can
be hard on many people. So I think that the
quality of your diet matters far more than if your
produce is organic or not. But if you are looking
(32:02):
to just spend a little bit of extra money on
a few organic produce items, you might want to think
about things like strawberries, grapes, greens and kale and spinach.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
Which is some of the most nutrient dense foods anyway.
But the other little thing people might like to think about,
especially since many of us are in lockdown and spending
a lot more time at home. There's an amazing product
called a veggie pod, and it's a little garden bed
that you can have on balconies or in the home.
And then I know quite a few clients who have
invested in that because they haven't got big backyards and
they've got a bit more time and they have a
little garden there where they might grow their own leafy greens,
(32:32):
and that's a great way to optimize your nutrient intake,
increase your veggie consumption, and control the quality of your
fresh produce. So have a look at those veggie pods.
They've got great at home growing solutions for people living
in cities, and I know quite a few people who
have started to grow some of their own produce at home,
and then you're getting the best of both worlds. You're
saving money and also consuming the highest quality fresh fruit
(32:54):
and vegies you can and you can completely control what
goes into them. So have a look at those. We'll
pop that up on our insteat site as well.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Yeah, and there are a lot of community gardens around
the place as well. Just to look at Google and
see if your neighborhood has a community guarden. I remember
I used to work out in the country and they
had this beautiful community garden that you know, not really
many people knew about. So just to look at Google
and see if you're your area that you live and
has a community garden or sometimes on you know things
like Facebook Marketplace, people put up fresh herbs that they've
grown in their own garden and that sort of thing,
(33:22):
and they have so many of them that they're happy
to give them away. So all of those are really
great options as well. So you don't need to spend
the money getting organic, but you are getting some better
quality produce that someone's growing themselves in their backyard or
you have yourself as well, which I think is always
going to be beneficial.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
One hundred percent. All right, Well, that brings us to
the end of the Nutrition Couch for another week. If
you haven't already, don't forget to subscribe to have us
delivered to your inbooks every Sunday morning. And we love
it when you leave us a review. It really helps
us in the Apple charts, and you can do that
from your purple Apple podcast app. We've got our Instagram
and Facebook sites up and running. For any feedback or
(33:57):
questions at the Nutrition Couch Podcast. We will see you
same time, same place, next Sunday. Have a fantastic week,
Catch you guys next week.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.